00:00:28 <Sizzell> Stable (0.13) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-b1-1-g298bc45
00:06:14 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-30-gf0b6e91 (34)
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00:42:31 <Naruni> think i found an info leak
00:43:02 <Naruni> is there a way in wizmode to forget which items you know
00:43:10 <Naruni> scrolls in particular
00:43:22 <SwissStopwatch> you can unidentify stuff
00:43:47 <SwissStopwatch> I think it's unidentify inventory, specifically?
00:43:56 <Naruni> k
00:44:18 <Naruni> ack gotta rebuild from last pull... stupid tomahawk
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01:02:19 <Naruni> yeah this is confirmed
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01:21:27 <Cheibriados> Pigform (and possibly other morphs) remove your dot on the minimap <https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7578> by NekoRex
01:27:23 <Naruni> in itemuse.cc function read_scroll where does it actually call a function based on which scroll it was?
01:27:23 <Naruni> set_ident_type?
01:27:38 <Cheibriados> New branch created: banish (1 commit)
01:27:39 <Cheibriados> 03bh02 07[banish] * 0.14-a0-31-g1d6a0fd: Tinker with Abyss Spawns 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 27+ 28-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d6a0fd99717
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01:29:25 <Naruni> ah i found it: id_the_scroll = _scroll_modify_item(scroll);
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01:46:14 <Naruni> what is base type of a scroll?
01:46:57 <SamB> what do you mean?
01:46:58 <Naruni> OBJ_SCROLLS from enum.h?
01:47:19 <Naruni> umm im trying to call bool item_type_known(const object_class_type base_type, const int sub_type)
01:47:20 <SamB> oh, that; look at the crawl-gdb.py for that stuff really
01:48:12 * SamB is tired
01:48:13 <SamB> er, yes I guess OBJ_SCROLLS is what you seek ...
01:48:22 <Naruni> crawl-gdb.py?
01:48:28 <Naruni> debugger?
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01:49:19 <SamB> I wrote a pretty-printer for item_def that also could be used as a reference for what sub-type enum goes with what base type ... but I forgot what base type meant momentarily ;-X
01:49:20 <Naruni> now im trying to find sub-type
01:50:03 <SamB> the type in question is scroll_type
01:50:16 <SamB> if my pretty-printer is correct, anyway
01:51:00 <Naruni> SamB: i tried python crawl-dgb.py on my cli and got some gnarly errors
01:51:13 <Naruni> no module named gdb
01:51:37 <Naruni> i need base_type and sub_type for a scroll of enchant armour
01:51:47 <SamB> yeah, this is meant to be run by GDB itself
01:52:09 <Naruni> with an open crawl process?
01:53:07 <SamB> But you can also get some information out of the code. Well, *I* can anyway.
01:53:38 <Naruni> "/home/m/crawl/crawl-ref/source/crawl-gdb.py": not in executable format: File format not recognized
01:54:01 <Naruni> isnt there just an easy way to grep it?
01:54:16 <SamB> dunno
01:54:28 <SamB> yes ;-)
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01:54:37 <SamB> itemname.cc:    case SCR_ENCHANT_ARMOUR:     return "enchant armour";
01:56:36 <Naruni> that item_type_known function is looking for an int in the subtype field though...
01:57:29 <SamB> if you want to know what value that has, gdb is your friend
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01:59:40 <SamB> (gdb) print (int) SCR_ENCHANT_ARMOUR
01:59:40 <SamB> $2 = 7
02:04:44 <Naruni> 2 or 7? there is no line of code that has "armour" and "7"
02:04:55 <Naruni> and 2 doesnt show anything either
02:04:57 <Naruni> strange
02:06:12 <SamB> $2 is just a way to reference that value again; gdb assigns one to every print output
02:06:52 <Naruni> then somewhere there should be a line with armour and 7 together right?
02:06:57 <SamB> and yeah, no code assigns the value 7 explicitly; it's just that that is what was next
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02:07:59 <SamB> behold:
02:08:03 <SamB> itemprop-enum.h:316:    SCR_ENCHANT_ARMOUR,
02:08:06 <Naruni> i could go crazy hacker and just create an item object scroll = SCR_ENCHANT_ARMOUR then mpr(scroll.item.subtype)
02:08:43 <Naruni> ahh fuck
02:08:51 <SamB> that's the line that assigns the number 7 (implicitly) to SCR_ENCHANT_ARMOUR
02:09:05 <Naruni> enums start at 0 right?
02:09:10 <Naruni> that could make sens
02:09:19 <Naruni> s/c/w
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02:09:53 <SamB> by default, yes
02:11:23 <Naruni> well damn, that didnt fix what i was trying to do :D
02:12:13 <SamB> what are you trying to do?
02:12:19 <Naruni> so the way it stands right now, if you have a max enchanted armour (+3 shield) and read an un-id'd enchat armour scroll, the shield will not pop up which is info leak.
02:13:12 <SamB> say what?
02:13:15 <Naruni> so i added a line in is_enchantable_armour to return true if enchant armour is unknown, but that actually allowed the shield to be enchanted
02:13:44 <Naruni> yeah i just noticed it on CAO so i tested it and it seems to be legit
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02:14:11 <SamB> what exactly happens when you try to enchant this thing with the un-IDed scroll?
02:14:26 <Naruni> i need to figure out how to allow the armour in question to be displayed, but prevent the actual item mod from going through
02:14:34 <TZer0> guys, just a quick question, which file should I modify if I want to correctly modify the footer in webtiles?
02:14:34 <Henzell> TZer0: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
02:14:35 <ogaz> the shield not popping up is not an info leak I think, if you have a targetting scroll it's one of ID, recharging, and EA, and none of those will do anything on a +3 shield
02:14:40 <TZer0> !messages
02:14:41 <Henzell> (1/1) |amethyst said (2h 52m 16s ago): you'll also need to edit <dgamelaunch-config>/chroot/bin/init-webtiles.sh to init 0.13 rc/macro files and publish
02:14:58 <SamB> I thought
02:15:24 <SamB> that an enchantment scroll would do make a glow when applied to fully-enchanted gear
02:15:52 <Naruni> ogaz: ID was id'd, and i thought it might have been recharging or enchant armour, but i noticed my gloves were not showing and that caught my interest
02:17:31 <SamB> Naruni: so you're just saying that an item you couldn't possibly get any real benefit from using the scroll on not being on the menu somehow leaks info?
02:17:51 <TZer0> Interesting bug.
02:17:53 <TZer0> :D
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02:18:38 <Naruni> maybe 'info leak' is a little drastic, but it was sure as shit obvious to me when those gloves didnt pop up and all my other armour did
02:18:50 <SamB> it sounds like it's not really a bug: why would you want to use any scroll on a fully-enchanted armour ever?
02:19:00 <Naruni> SamB: i was read-id'ing it
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02:19:25 <SamB> and doesn't the same thing happen with un-IDed recharging?
02:20:04 <TZer0> SamB: does it happen with the recharge scroll if you have fully enchanted armor?
02:20:27 <TZer0> if yes, then you can blind-ID stuff by having max-exchanted armor
02:20:36 <TZer0> sorry, if no I meant
02:20:50 <Naruni> TZer0: thats what i was getting at
02:20:53 <SamB> AIUI, the menu for an un-IDed item-menu scroll is just the union of the menus for the IDed scrolls
02:21:54 <SamB> so this would be on the menu for ANY of them
02:22:00 <SamB> (try it and see)
02:22:11 <SamB> anyway, sleep for me ...
02:22:52 <TZer0> SamB: good night.
02:23:18 <Naruni> cya SamB
02:23:44 <Naruni> / For unidentified scrolls of recharging, identify and enchant armour
02:23:45 <Naruni> / offer full choice of inventory and only identify the scroll if you chose
02:23:45 <Naruni> / something that is affected by the scroll.
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02:26:11 <TZer0> !tell |amethyst done.
02:26:12 <Henzell> TZer0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know.
02:26:49 <TZer0> Naruni: well, or remove stuff you don't want to try enchant anyway
02:27:09 <TZer0> and perhaps add the option for force attempting an enchant in case everything you have is max-enchanted
02:27:13 <TZer0> (possible.. but unlikely..)
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07:44:50 <Drahbeg> Has there ever been an idea on the table to make Dgs Hus with mandatory permanent god choice at the beginning?
07:45:14 <Drahbeg> and maybe increased piety
07:47:21 <MarvinPA> probably not since that doesn't make any sense?
07:48:27 <MarvinPA> what with the whole point of demigods being that they don't get a god
07:48:30 <|amethyst> the restriction would be barely noticeable for 3 rune games
07:48:30 <Henzell> |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
07:48:44 <Drahbeg> I mean very early in the design process
07:49:34 <|amethyst> Dg is older than most of us have been devs, so can't speak to that :)
07:51:21 <Drahbeg> And a magic school that focusses on using items to cast spells?
07:51:56 <|amethyst> we have a few such spells, but they're not in any one school
07:52:33 <Drahbeg> no, not as ingredients
07:52:38 <Drahbeg> more like
07:52:48 <Drahbeg> "you need this item for this spell"
07:53:49 <|amethyst> no, that would just annoy people when they have one and not the other
07:53:49 <Drahbeg> so finding an item means finding a spell
07:54:10 <|amethyst> particularly if the item were specific to that spell
07:54:21 <|amethyst> we don't want to turn Crawl into the McDonald's Monopoly game
07:54:39 <Drahbeg> I need to explain better
07:54:54 <Drahbeg> a class with an ability to use items to cast spells
07:54:58 <Drahbeg> one ability
07:55:14 <MarvinPA> that's not how classes work
07:55:17 <dpeg> give an example of a spell you have in mind
07:55:34 <Drahbeg> hm
07:55:46 <|amethyst> that sounds more like a god ability in crawl, yes
07:55:50 <Drahbeg> it wouldnt fit into the class system, marvin's right
07:56:09 <|amethyst> e.g. sacrifice a plate armour to get stoneskin ?
07:56:22 <Drahbeg> that would be cool for a god
07:56:23 <|amethyst> (one cast of stoneskin)
07:57:19 <dpeg> MarvinPA: once I get my lazy ass off the ground and mumra happens to be available too, we'll slowly potter along with the abstract worshippers. A lot's already there.
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08:37:54 <Drahbeg> Also can somebody add "It's Blork the fucking orc!" to his dialogue?
08:39:09 <Eronarn> nope
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08:48:26 <Drahbeg> ??fungus
08:48:27 <Henzell> fungus[1/1]: A non-interactive plant in the dungeon. Nothing special about it, except that it can block an oklob plant's LOF.
08:48:55 <ackack> i infer from the obvious mechanics that there is some function that gets delays for player movement and player weapons
08:49:05 <ackack> is there anything for spells is that hardcoded to match the global delay for the player?
08:49:15 <ackack> s/spells is/spells, or is
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08:58:46 <Drahbeg> ??wand of heal wounds
08:58:47 <Henzell> wand of heal wounds[1/1]: Exactly like a potion of heal wounds, except you can recharge it, it's lightweight and it won't be destroyed by cold attacks. Its healing is not based at all on evocation skill (but Ely pacification with it is, for some reason). Deep Dwarves start with one that has five charges. It's cool!
08:59:10 <Drahbeg> ??scroll of recharging
08:59:11 <Henzell> scroll of recharging[1/3]: When used on a wand, refills a varying number of charges. When used on a rod, will increase the rod's enchantment by 1d2, restore the rod's power, and add 1d2 magic points to its limit, up to 17.
08:59:24 <Drahbeg> ??scroll of recharging[2
08:59:24 <Henzell> scroll of recharging[2/3]: Wand limits: invis, heal, haste, fireball, tele: 9; lightning, drain: 12; fire, cold: 15; other: 24. Note that these limits apply to recharging only, not starting values. One scroll will add to # of charges between 1 and two less than the maximum number of charges, weighted to the middle of the distribution.
09:01:12 <Drahbeg> ??nessos
09:01:13 <Henzell> nessos[1/3]: A unique centaur, generated with a longbow of flame, poisoned arrows, a centaur barding, haste and blink. Also blinks away from you. Fires poisoned arrows of flame (no, you can't). His magic resistance is considerably low, so he's susceptible to slowness, paralyzing, etc.
09:01:16 <Drahbeg> oops
09:01:19 <Drahbeg> I am so sorry
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09:05:46 <ackack> a while ago people were discussing the idea of more magic boosting transmutations
09:06:08 <ackack> i had the idea this morning that a core effect for one of those could be "magic swiftness," reducing the delay of spellcasting to .8 for the duration of the transform
09:06:24 <ackack> but i have no idea how feasible that is to implement with the present delay system
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09:10:07 <MarvinPA> that's probably pretty easily doable
09:10:10 <MarvinPA> no idea how good an idea it is though
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09:11:42 <MarvinPA> only really useful for conjurers i guess? and if it stacks on top of haste that could potentially be pretty silly
09:12:44 <MarvinPA> and if it doesn't stack, you'd just get charms for haste+all the other charms stuff instead of tmut for that, maybe
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09:17:54 <alefury> To me it makes more sense that transmuting your body affects things you do with your body
09:21:36 <Drahbeg> guys
09:21:43 <Drahbeg> I just encounered a slime creature
09:21:46 <Drahbeg> and it blinked
09:22:36 <Drahbeg> Playing trunk
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09:25:49 <Drahbeg> how what wtf?
09:26:21 <MarvinPA> well you are wielding a chaos weapon
09:26:34 <Drahbeg> oh
09:26:36 <Drahbeg> right
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09:26:42 <Drahbeg> that
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09:36:35 <Marbit> in case anyone may find it interesting, I made a proposal to change the hall of blades into the forge to add monster variety (reviving discusion from a related post)
09:36:43 <Marbit> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9414
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09:44:55 <ackack> marvinpa: i was assuming it would stack with haste, and yes, it would be of most interest to conjurers
09:45:10 <ackack> sort of giving them something to do with transmutation besides lichform
09:45:27 <ackack> the other possibility was figuring out how to repurpose the djinn gimmick as a tm spell
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10:20:54 <alefury> ackack: you mean like sublimation?
10:21:12 <alefury> ackack: actually, which Dj gimmick?
10:22:29 <ackack> alefury: essence
10:22:40 <alefury> okay, so you mean like sublimation
10:22:54 <ackack> i mean a transmutation where you have essence, as if you were a djinn
10:23:05 <alefury> sublimation?
10:23:07 <ackack> the problem i see with this is that high end dj casters seem overly formidable
10:23:10 <alefury> ;)
10:23:27 <ackack> well, sublimation has a) the possibility of chunks, and b) you have the choice to cast it or not
10:23:52 <ackack> also with good necro the transferral of hp to mp is probably more efficient than 2:1
10:24:58 <alefury> its pretty random
10:25:14 <alefury> no idea what the average turns out to be
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10:29:52 <|amethyst> !tell tzer0 looks like you'll need to kill and restart crawl-inotify-dglwhere: the W menu isn't showing locations
10:29:53 <Henzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know.
10:30:33 <ontoclasm> how about a form which (also?) acts like magic berserk
10:30:44 <ontoclasm> i.e. you can cast spells but are locked out of most other actions
10:31:29 <ontoclasm> and in exchange you get (insert bonus here)
10:32:42 <alefury> bigger explosions! more damage!
10:33:15 <ontoclasm> whenever you cast a spell, a horde of screaming fans appears from nowhere to cheer you on
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10:33:40 <alefury> I'm not sure it would work very well
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10:34:50 <ogaz> FR: reflavor Boris as a felid
10:34:55 <alefury> Maybe if it really was a lot like berserk, lasting long with monsters in sight but quickly ending without. Or with a short duration and maybe even a drawback when it runs out. Also, the berserker rage spell had problems, but I don't think they really apply in this case
10:35:38 <geekosaur> ddoor
10:36:43 <ackack> can't use ddoor, otherwise makes it too easy to get access to ddoor
10:37:00 <ackack> magic berserking is an interesting idea but the problem with that vs. melee berserking is you never run out of the ability to melee
10:37:13 <geekosaur> I was thinking more about the drawbacks
10:37:37 <geekosaur> you boost your magic ability at the cost of your hp
10:38:01 <geekosaur> as opposed to doing that the weird way (essence makes little sense to me...)
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10:43:35 <ontoclasm> ackack: well, if you combine this with the djinn ep thing
10:43:44 <ontoclasm> running out of mp kills you
10:44:01 <ackack> yeah, but you have a lot more mp than usual
10:44:11 <ontoclasm> well yeah
10:44:22 <ogaz> how does sublimation work with djinni?
10:44:33 <ontoclasm> you can't sub yourself
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10:45:03 <ontoclasm> my drawback idea was something like
10:45:10 <ontoclasm> you can't end it early (or doing so takes ages)
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10:45:19 <ontoclasm> and when you go back, the ep first funnels into your hp
10:45:26 <ontoclasm> so likely you'll have 0 mp afterwards
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11:30:28 <kilobyte> !tell bh current abyss skeletons suck, but making them work like they once did might be better than dropping them.  We lost even those iconic grey snake skeletons.
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11:30:29 <Henzell> kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know.
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11:32:22 <kilobyte> !tell bh what's the point of distributions like -1, 5, 2000, DOWN?  -1, 5, 2000, UP makes sense: it goes from 3/7 at A:1 to 7/7 at A:5, but DOWN is a roundabout way for scaling everything down.
11:32:23 <Henzell> kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know.
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11:34:19 <kilobyte> !tell bh I'd want to allow all monsters to spawn in the Abyss for the stress test bot (but not necessarily the real game).  Should I coordinate with you, or just hack something, possibly with some debug-only dlua call?
11:34:20 <Henzell> kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know.
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12:19:10 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-30-gf0b6e91 (34)
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13:27:03 <LexAckson> are there any downsides to being a gargoyle?
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13:28:42 <geekosaur> low HP; AC goes only so far
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13:28:53 <geekosaur> early gargoyles die to orc priest smiting a lot
13:28:59 <LexAckson> oh, i didn't notice the low hp yet
13:29:12 <LexAckson> though the 0 exp apt helps that somewhat
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13:43:26 <SwissStopwatch> it's kind of dangerous until you hit a certain number of HP
13:43:38 <LexAckson> Well i guess that shows it.  Just got one shot from max hp
13:43:50 <SwissStopwatch> but they get much more to make up for it than the other HP -2 races I think'
13:43:52 <LexAckson> iron shot for 89 damage
13:43:58 <LexAckson> i only had 86 hp
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13:44:27 <SwissStopwatch> you could probably argue DE's good spell apts but yeah
13:44:43 <SwissStopwatch> not very safe against that sort of threat until triple digit HP
13:44:53 <SwissStopwatch> probably really not until 120-140 or something
13:44:57 <LexAckson> yeah
13:45:30 <LexAckson> the high ac makes you feel safe
13:45:51 <LexAckson> but really you are not
13:46:09 <SwissStopwatch> even so some people will just randomly get through without ever taking sufficiently strong hits to get murdered like that
13:46:17 <LexAckson> yeah
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13:55:42 <kilobyte> AC is pretty weak unless it comes with GDR
13:56:20 <kilobyte> and GDR itself is pretty weak unless it comes with AC
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14:01:05 <SwissStopwatch> the first part is really not true
14:01:38 <SwissStopwatch> you definitely notice that it's weaker against things that gdr doesn't apply to but it's still not bad
14:01:59 <SwissStopwatch> certainly you take noticeably less damage from centaurs with 25 AC than with 10
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14:13:27 <kilobyte> well, 15 of any defense stats is noticeable
14:13:43 <kilobyte> especially that early on
14:14:18 <kilobyte> but where are you going to take that 25 AC from when you still care about centaurs?
14:15:42 <SwissStopwatch> probably nowhere but even if I think evasion-based defenses usually make for stronger characters overall
14:16:04 <SwissStopwatch> I would not say that I'd feel particularly safer against centaurs with 8/20 than with 20/8
14:16:19 <Bloax> >30 AC/EV/SH is pretty absurd however.
14:16:25 <Bloax> And not very hard to achieve with a gargoyle.
14:16:53 <SwissStopwatch> by the time you have that on anybody you're scared of very few enemies at all
14:17:01 <SwissStopwatch> and on a gargoyle that still will take a long time
14:17:25 <SwissStopwatch> unless you're using a large shield at 0 skill for some reason
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14:17:36 <SwissStopwatch> still losing EV from that though...
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14:21:16 <Bloax> SwissStopwatch: cheibriados
14:21:28 <Bloax> grab a shield and pump some dodging
14:21:33 <Bloax> suddenly godmode
14:22:04 <SwissStopwatch> chei characters, very well known for being good
14:22:43 <SwissStopwatch> but they're certainly a special case for good or ill
14:22:45 <Bloax> Chei gargoyles even more so, since AC+EV is extremely good.
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15:06:05 <ogaz> the bots don't appear to recognize 0.13-b games/milestones
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15:07:43 <|amethyst> greensnark hasn't updated Sequell yet
15:08:03 <|amethyst> and neither he nor I have updated Henzell
15:08:14 <|amethyst> Sizzell and Lantell should be updated already
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15:48:38 <Henzell> giantbat the Ducker (L4 HuMo)  (D:3)
15:49:44 <Henzell> CFSZero the Invulnerable (L27 MiFi)  (Abyss:2)
15:50:12 <Henzell> NoamChomsky the Heavyweight Champion (L27 TrFi)  (Vaults:5)
15:50:25 <|amethyst> henzell got stuck again
15:50:30 <|amethyst> s/henzell/cao/
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17:22:09 <kilobyte> penetrating large rocks make Linesprint ridiculous
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17:34:38 <Lightli> Linesprint is already ridiculous
17:34:59 * Lightli has died to an emperor scorpion after killing Lom Lobon
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17:41:01 <ontoclasm> fr curvesprint
17:41:44 <nicolae-> roomsprint. just a very tiny room and you fight one monster at a time
17:42:22 <Zannick> sprintsprint
17:42:41 <Zannick> there's a monster, a rune, an orb guardian, and the orb
17:43:18 <Lightli> what is the monster
17:43:18 <nicolae-> i like it
17:43:26 <SamB> runelock or not?
17:43:28 <nicolae-> the player is the monster. it's the twist.
17:43:33 <Lightli> gasp
17:43:33 <SamB> hahaha
17:43:34 <kilobyte> you can emulate linesprint on any layout that has a straight corridor
17:44:24 <kilobyte> nicolae-: the players are revolting, right?
17:44:34 <Zannick> snrk
17:44:47 <nicolae-> yes
17:45:06 <Zannick> SamB: yes, of course. you have to get the rune before entering the zot room
17:45:07 <kilobyte> (was this joke too obscure?)
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17:45:51 <nicolae-> (nah)
17:46:01 <nicolae-> (but you're not the first to make it, i'm afraid)
17:46:31 <nicolae-> orbsprint. don't even bother with the runes.
17:46:36 <kilobyte> a bug in Linesprint: you can enter Zot without picking up three runes
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17:47:11 <nicolae-> you, a pile of equipment, orb guardian, orb.
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17:47:32 <kilobyte> nicolae-: ie, if you try to pick it up, you die?
17:47:58 <nicolae-> ah, is that what happens in sprint if you haven't got the runes yet
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17:48:36 <kilobyte> nicolae-: I mean, trying to wear gear when standing next to an orb guardian tends to be fatal
17:48:45 <kilobyte> except for weapons and jewelry, that is
17:48:48 <nicolae-> ah, true
17:49:01 <nicolae-> better have a tiny closet with a runed door to start out in, and THEN you can fight the orb guardian
17:49:48 * kilobyte assumed I can remove a large shield next to some shit monster at full hp today.
17:50:16 <kilobyte> turns out you receive a confirmation "continue disrobing?" only on the first turn, no matter how badly you get damaged later
17:50:47 <Zannick> "continue dying?"
17:53:22 <kilobyte> FR: let's make linesprint no_rotate.  It sucks in a vertical layout: there's far more screen space horizontally.
17:56:18 <TZer0> !messages
17:56:19 <Henzell> (1/1) |amethyst said (7h 26m 26s ago): looks like you'll need to kill and restart crawl-inotify-dglwhere: the W menu isn't showing locations
17:57:16 <st_> no
17:59:01 <TZer0> !tell |amethyst can't find the process.
17:59:02 <Henzell> TZer0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know.
17:59:22 <Zannick> maybe then you just need to start it
17:59:35 <TZer0> Zannick: ok.
18:01:16 <TZer0> herp derp.
18:01:18 <TZer0> Fixed.
18:01:21 <TZer0> !tell |amethyst fixed.
18:01:22 <Henzell> TZer0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know.
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18:02:23 <kilobyte> about 256 colour support: looks like it will be doable after all
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18:02:52 <kilobyte> the main blockers are rxvt (88 colours, partially works) and linux console (16 colours only)
18:03:08 <nicolae-> 256 in console?
18:03:13 <nicolae-> so we could make it look like brogue
18:03:16 <nicolae-> optionally
18:03:23 <kilobyte> and seconds ago gregkh applied my patch to properly ignore them to next
18:04:07 <kilobyte> it's a matter of waiting for distributions to drop ancient kernels now :p
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18:05:36 <kilobyte> nicolae-: using 256 colours for regular walls sucks, but having elemental colours not conflict with regular ones would be nice
18:05:52 <nicolae-> cool
18:05:53 <kilobyte> also, messages from previous turns could gradually fade to black
18:05:58 <nicolae-> that would also be cool
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18:13:14 <ontoclasm> 256 colors ~~ <3
18:13:32 <nicolae-> are you going to do up a splash screen in ascii art, onto
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18:30:28 <kilobyte> hrm, one problem: the hack I thought up can't be done with ncurses, at least without intercepting and postprocessing output
18:32:10 <kilobyte> when trying to use a "slightly yellowish light green number 42(not a real colour)", I'd write: \e[32;1;38;5;42m
18:32:52 <kilobyte> ie, set the colour to light green (32;1) then attempt setting it to exact colour requested
18:33:35 <kilobyte> no way to do this with ncurses, apparently :(
18:34:30 <SamB> I thought you said curses was dumb anyway
18:34:47 <nicolae-> yeah but the devs keep it around because of ashenzari
18:35:07 <SamB> nicolae-: not THOSE curses
18:35:30 <nicolae-> i know but i find it hard to pass up a chance to make a really bad pun
18:35:36 <kilobyte> SamB: what's dumb in curses is: 1. its interface (a throwback to '70s terminals), and 2. its reliance on the TERM variable
18:36:11 <kilobyte> but rewritting everything would take quite some time, especially if you want this to be portable
18:36:26 <kilobyte> I mean, output is easy, input is not
18:37:06 <SamB> hmm, can input even ignore TERM really?
18:38:26 <SamB> so, do we actually need much from curses?
18:40:15 <kilobyte> on the output, nothing really (although curses optimize writes; crawl just writes everything naively and lets curses avoid rewrites)
18:42:16 <SamB> ... do we want to get curses patched?
18:42:18 <ontoclasm> nicolae-: i would do that in a goddamn heartbeat
18:42:59 <nicolae-> noice
18:43:10 <kilobyte> actually, if we're playing locally or over ssh, the terminal is known.  It's only DGL that needs to produce output understandable by all terminals.
18:43:36 <kilobyte> so postprocessing would be easy
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18:44:06 <SamB> can we know what color to fallback to in DGL?
18:44:16 <kilobyte> ie, forcing 256 colours in curses, then fixing up its codes
18:44:49 <geekosaur> pretty sure ncurses can do more colors, it just requires more work.
18:44:49 <SamB> yes I got that
18:44:57 <SamB> I had already imagined doing that
18:46:19 <kilobyte> SamB: mapping 256 colours to 16 isn't hard, especially if there's nearly no use of backgrounds
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18:46:47 <kilobyte> I think crawl uses no backgrounds at all, just reverse.  Not 100% sure here.
18:48:48 <Zannick> it does something for allied/neutral/unaware monsters, but that might just be foreground colors
18:49:20 <kilobyte> uhm, it's actually real backgrounds
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18:50:40 <kilobyte> yeah, just checked.  Spawn a sleeping orc wizard: magenta on blue.  Spawn a sleeping iguana: black [should be blue] on blue
18:52:20 <kilobyte> hrm, this makes conversion from 256-colour only to universal harder: it needs to track both fore- and background, instead of a simple mechanical replacement
18:52:20 <kilobyte> but still no rocket surgery
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19:10:38 <ontoclasm> kiloobyteyou might fix my ancient bug!
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19:22:26 <kilobyte> ontoclasm: uhm, what bug?
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20:49:23 <bh> hai
20:49:23 <Henzell> bh: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
20:49:25 <bh> oy
20:49:27 <bh> !messages
20:49:28 <Henzell> (1/3) kilobyte said (9h 18m 58s ago): current abyss skeletons suck, but making them work like they once did might be better than dropping them.  We lost even those iconic grey snake skeletons.
20:49:37 <bh> !messages
20:49:37 <Henzell> (1/2) kilobyte said (9h 17m 14s ago): what's the point of distributions like -1, 5, 2000, DOWN?  -1, 5, 2000, UP makes sense: it goes from 3/7 at A:1 to 7/7 at A:5, but DOWN is a roundabout way for scaling everything down.
20:49:43 <bh> !messages
20:49:43 <Henzell> (1/1) kilobyte said (9h 15m 23s ago): I'd want to allow all monsters to spawn in the Abyss for the stress test bot (but not necessarily the real game).  Should I coordinate with you, or just hack something, possibly with some debug-only dlua call?
20:49:54 <bh> !seen kilobyte
20:49:55 <Henzell> I last saw kilobyte at Fri Sep 27 01:36:36 2013 UTC (13m 18s ago) saying '0.13 has newcrypt and Gr, no forest, Dj nor LO' on ##crawl.
20:50:13 <bh> kilobyte: I don't think I understand UP and DOWN
20:50:43 <bh> I want to express "give me more of these deeper" and "give me less of these deeper"
20:51:52 <Grunt> bh, see random-pick.h
20:51:56 <Grunt> (when did that get moved?)
20:52:20 <bh> Grunt: I did and I thought I understood it
20:52:55 <Grunt> What you just mentioned are UP and DOWN respectively.
20:53:27 <SamB> which file is this again?
20:53:53 <Grunt> If that's what your understanding is, the issue is that {-1, 5, 2000, DOWN} can be simplified because the top depth is out of range.
20:54:12 <Grunt> ...to, say, {1, 5, 1333, DOWN}.
20:54:13 <SamB> hmm, maybe GDB can tell me where those come from
20:54:23 <bh> Grunt: ah
20:55:34 <SamB> hmm, it's not an enum member :-(
20:55:47 <Grunt> enum distrib_type
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20:56:44 <SamB> oh, I guess I'm just using GDB wrong then
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20:57:34 <geekosaur> gdb may not be able to show enums as enums
20:57:56 <SamB> was trying to get it to tell me where that came from
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21:01:01 <SamB> hmm, what does rarity mean here
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21:18:22 <ontoclasm> kilobyte: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6012
21:18:46 <ontoclasm> (reverse branded bright things display incorrectly in putty)
21:19:15 <MarvinPA> oh my what is that font
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21:19:22 <ontoclasm> it's a dumb thing putty does and thus Not Our Problem, but if it gets fixed on accident
21:19:29 <ontoclasm> MarvinPA: monofur
21:19:40 <ontoclasm> goddamn beautiful
21:19:49 <MarvinPA> :(
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21:20:07 <ontoclasm> or was that "oh my" an "oh god that's horrific"
21:20:13 <MarvinPA> yes :P
21:20:16 <ontoclasm> hah
21:20:45 <ontoclasm> i can't play crawl with anything else now, they're all so ugly
21:20:50 <SamB> de gustibus et de coloribus ...
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21:22:17 <ontoclasm> the two problems i have with it are that the * isn't centered and that it doesn't have club signs for trees
21:22:27 <ontoclasm> so my trees are capital deltas instead
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21:26:41 <nicolae-> i kind of like it only because i like seeing console fonts that don't look like something from the 90s or earlier
21:28:04 <SamB> I don't know what you kids have against the 90s
21:28:29 <nicolae-> there are some things about the 90s i like
21:28:37 <nicolae-> being reminded of ms-dos terminals is not one of them
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