00:01:00 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:19 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05:51 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3140-gbdcfb35 (34) 00:13:40 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3140-gbdcfb35 (34) 00:19:14 -!- Quashie_ is now known as Quashie 00:19:55 -!- pelotron_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:39:06 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:43:25 -!- Suga_H has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:49 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3140-gbdcfb35 00:49:23 Basil (L21 HuAs) ASSERT(in_bounds(p)) in 'items.cc' at line 3744 failed. (p = (0,0)) (Vaults:3) 00:52:12 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:25 -!- Valarioth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:04:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:07:15 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:07:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:04 <|amethyst> !lm Basil crash -log 01:10:05 4. Basil, XL21 HuAs, T:81032 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Basil/crash-Basil-20130922-054923.txt 01:10:31 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:50 -!- Silent_Samurai has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:17 <|amethyst> _seal_doors_and_stairs -> move_items failed, because get_push_space didn't find a spot 01:17:14 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:18 <|amethyst> possibly because of a toadstool 01:20:02 Hey guys, just wondering if there's some kind of list of hooks for DCSS, as I'm looking to write a few scripts for it 01:23:18 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:11 -!- gammafunk_ has quit [Quit: gammafunk_] 01:33:20 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 01:38:41 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:43:17 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:43:45 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:47:36 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:54 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:54:31 If someone checks my patch on Mantis, I will love you forever. <3 02:13:57 -!- CeleryMa_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:15 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:17:55 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 02:30:08 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 02:30:25 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:36 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:56:49 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:20 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 03:07:41 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:08:02 -!- eb has quit [] 03:12:00 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 03:13:02 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:00 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:16:40 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:23:35 -!- Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:25:03 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:36 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 03:27:05 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:08 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:53:59 -!- Silent_Samurai has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:56 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:25:29 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:07 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:11 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:34:18 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:39:06 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:43:23 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:09:13 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:29 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:09:46 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:13:43 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:13:48 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:14:51 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:21:46 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Client Quit] 05:24:35 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:38:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:39:01 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:39:46 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:55 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:48:00 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:52:52 -!- Burer has quit [Changing host] 05:58:51 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 06:00:04 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02:16 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:30 -!- Camicio has quit [] 06:19:26 -!- Burer has quit [Quit: Truly, the end of days.] 06:30:02 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:35:51 -!- fungee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:43:00 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3141-gfd9eaa9: Abort rather than loop infinitely if all layouts fail. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fd9eaa9e2c24 06:47:52 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:48:18 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 06:48:41 -!- Gotham has quit [Client Quit] 06:49:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:49:11 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:52:11 -!- dc has quit [Quit: dc] 06:58:15 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:19 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:54 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:12:21 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:13:21 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Client Quit] 07:14:59 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 07:17:54 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:40 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:35 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:31:01 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:31:08 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:31:27 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:03 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:44:11 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:45:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:48:04 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:40 -!- Vandal is now known as Ganrao 08:01:15 -!- Guest34698 is now known as jarpiain 08:04:21 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 08:05:18 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:18 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:24:35 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:31:00 -!- enygmata has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:01 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:34 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:41:37 -!- Soner has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:42:09 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:57 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:04 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:44:47 -!- VladTC has quit [Client Quit] 08:48:27 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:53:05 -!- KLANG has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:04:05 -!- radinms_ has quit [] 09:06:28 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:58 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.13-a0-3142-g6485c99: Revert Abyss/Thrashing horror changes 10(28 minutes ago, 4 files, 3+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6485c99bb781 09:07:59 03MarvinPA02 07[next] * 0.13-a0-3154-g6e8ccac: Let monsters pick up Elf:$ loot 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 15+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6e8ccac462d6 09:07:59 03MarvinPA02 07[next] * 0.13-a0-3155-g518382a: Make Sticks to Snakes only work on missiles 10(4 days ago, 2 files, 9+ 72-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=518382ad0725 09:10:57 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:18:06 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3143-g9d4b07a: If checkpointing is disabled, don't ever commit saves when not leaving. 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9d4b07a3b86e 09:19:25 MarvinPA: perhaps S2S could use the quiver instead? 09:19:51 also, sandblast 09:23:47 i think there were some concerns that using the quiver there would conflict with using it for actual throwing 09:24:10 since Tm is reasonably likely to want to throw darts and stones, early on at least 09:25:13 i guess it might still be an improvement, i'm not really sure 09:34:37 -!- axujen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:51 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:37:54 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:13 <|amethyst> I don't like the idea of using the quiver for sandblast 09:39:38 <|amethyst> What if you want to conserve your stones on D:1 until you find more 09:39:59 <|amethyst> Q- doesn't work unless you take stones off autoquiver 09:40:46 -!- Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:18 -!- flowsnake has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:20 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:31 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:47 -!- scummos^ has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 09:46:12 -!- Staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:48:48 i've never really understood why Q- works like that 10:02:24 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:04:37 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:07:20 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:35 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 10:14:11 MarvinPA: aww, why the Elf:$ thing? 10:15:14 -!- cosmoanut has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:15:30 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:31 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:56 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:25:50 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:28:37 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:33:37 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:15 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:39:28 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:47 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:53:11 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:21 -!- jday has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:06:45 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:57 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:10 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:23:16 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:27:47 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:27:54 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:06 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:53 -!- Soner has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:54 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:33 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 11:41:15 -!- blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:41:39 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:44:15 !messages 11:44:16 No messages for bh. 11:44:52 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:54 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:51:12 -!- UseBees has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:46 -!- enygmata has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:56:47 -!- enygmata has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:49 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:38 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:01 More helpful and unified scrolling prompts for formatted_scroller. by rob 12:01:54 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 12:03:06 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10:55 -!- Ladykiller69 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:20 v 12:11:20 ah 12:11:48 so 12:11:55 -!- dc has quit [Quit: dc] 12:12:08 can any of the charming people here give me advice on how to play transmuters? 12:12:27 this isn't for gameplay discussion, you want ##crawl 12:12:47 there's a lack of knowledgeable people there tho 12:13:59 <|amethyst> what makes you think people here are any more knowledgeable? 12:14:28 the -dev 12:14:50 <|amethyst> being a developer and being a good player are not really all that related 12:14:59 ??transmuter_guide 12:14:59 spider form[1/1]: No weapons or armour, but you get (UC + 5) base damage (untransformed is UC + 3), swiftness, a venomous bite, and a huge EV bonus (better than sprigganness!). You hit somewhat harder too, but the real draw is you don't get hit back. You also gain five dexterity, which is nice. Spider form has 2 AC. 12:15:46 on an unrelated note why cant player speeds be displayed the same way that monster speeds are? 12:15:56 <|amethyst> because they work differently 12:16:28 <|amethyst> because everything is based around player turns 12:16:42 how you calculate one from the other isnt obviously in the bots tho 12:16:49 there's not even a good translation between them because they each have a different basis 12:17:00 monster =>player was 20/(monsterspeed)? 12:17:10 yeah the energy thing 12:18:19 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3143-g9d4b07a (34) 12:18:41 Also if you want to play transmuters then train unarmed/dodging/transmutations and then poison for a bit once you can learn spider form. 12:19:01 And basically stop training transmutations and instead train fighting once blade hands is easily castable. 12:19:14 Expect to splat a lot due to abysmal melee accuracy. 12:20:06 <|amethyst> Ladykiller69: 100/monsterspeed is approximately the equivalent player move delay 12:20:39 Hm 12:20:39 that isnt anywhere in the bots is it? 12:20:55 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:09 <|amethyst> ??speed[4] 12:21:10 move delay[1/2]: 10 by default. Boots of running lower this by 1. The quickness mutations lower this; level 1 by 2, level 2 by 3, and level 3 by 4. Centaurs start with the second level, Spriggans with the third, Felids start with the first. The minimum is 6. delay = 100/speed. See also {what delay}. 12:21:17 <|amethyst> delay = 100/speed 12:21:32 oh my 12:21:32 good to know 12:21:34 I still cant read 12:21:40 I'll never win this game 12:21:55 but at least you will lose it gloriously 12:22:06 hm 12:22:07 -!- beef42 has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:22:08 let me think 12:22:09 no. 12:22:24 my last major losses were both outrageously stupid 12:23:54 <|amethyst> anyway, this is definitely a ##crawl discussion, not -dev 12:24:20 yeah 12:24:31 <|amethyst> "why are player/monster speeds different" is a -dev question of course :) 12:24:46 I kinda know the energy mechanic 12:25:25 oh 12:25:26 I almost forgot 12:25:26 there needs to be a spell called glacier 12:25:38 9/ice 12:25:50 <|amethyst> ice already has its l9 spell 12:25:58 it'd be very slow to cast 12:26:24 Ice storm is just firestom tho 12:26:34 <|amethyst> no it's not 12:26:36 they do the same thing 12:26:40 <|amethyst> no they don't 12:26:53 <|amethyst> Well, I mean, they both do damage in a radius 12:27:01 and unavoidable damage 12:27:13 and clouds 12:27:39 but a slow moving glacier 12:27:53 that crushes everything that doesnt get out of the way 12:28:21 that would have a real ice-feel to it 12:29:19 <|amethyst> flavour's easy---how would it work mechanically? 12:29:32 Hm 12:29:51 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:52 A walll that moves away from you in a targetable direction 12:30:04 breadth affected by spellpower 12:30:20 at maybe half player speed 12:30:45 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:17 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:23 and if something is on a square that the glacier takes it gets shoved/takes HUGE damage 12:33:28 <|amethyst> what happens when it hits a wall? 12:33:32 maybe LvL8 because its too utility-heavy for a lvl 9 12:33:51 it crushes everything between itself and the wall and then stops 12:33:53 <|amethyst> and what happens if there's a monster between the glacier and the wall (so the monster can't be pushed further) 12:34:04 <|amethyst> crushes meaning? 12:34:07 <|amethyst> more damage? 12:34:22 maybe even kill 12:34:22 just being able to create a glacial wall and shove enemies back from you one square (and then the wall fades away after a few turns) is a pretty good util/escape spell 12:34:26 <|amethyst> and, stops the whole glacier, or that segment? 12:34:35 hm 12:34:50 not sure, probably that segment 12:34:55 <|amethyst> being able to create walls is itself very powerful 12:35:42 There could also be done something really similar but called avalance 12:36:25 maybe if wall'd be too powerfull it would have to be channeled 12:36:42 for 1 or so mana per turn after the initial cast 12:38:21 either would thematically be much more icey than ice storm is my main point tho 12:40:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:41:49 Does a level 8 ice spell even exist? 12:42:11 -!- VladTC has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:43:02 <|amethyst> no, nor L7 (at least, player spells) 12:43:39 <|amethyst> Ink Cloud is L7 Conj|Ice (because water magic = ice magic) 12:44:02 ??ink cloud 12:44:03 I don't have a page labeled ink_cloud in my learndb. 12:44:12 kraken (05X) | Spd: 14 | HD: 16 | HP: 181-233 | AC/EV: 20/0 | Dam: 50 | cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 12drown | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 2317 | Sp: spawn tentacles, ink cloud | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 12:44:12 <|amethyst> %??kraken 12:46:47 Krakens might just be the strongest monsters within lair. 12:48:07 Say, what do ink clouds do? 12:48:39 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:48:48 maybe apply the "colourfull" effect to the player 12:50:02 <|amethyst> Bloax: they block LOS and help the kraken get away 12:50:08 <|amethyst> Bloax: it's in the emergency slot 12:50:45 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:57 <|amethyst> (hm, maybe monster should indicate which spell is in the emergency slot if there are fewer than six 12:51:01 <|amethyst> ) 12:54:44 that'd be neat 12:55:30 it's good to know which spells are the ones that you'll never actually see used :P 12:56:10 might be good to prevent player ghosts from spawning in unreachable areas in the sewers 12:56:29 I wanna kill this dude but I can't :( 12:56:46 I'm thinking of an abyss vault with inky water in a big circle. 12:56:56 And a straight line into the middle with some sweet loot in there. 12:57:13 But suddenly a kraken or two emerge right out the water as you step on the middle platform! 12:57:16 <|amethyst> eeviac: which sewer? 12:57:18 oh noes 12:57:25 @dump 12:57:27 No where information for eeviac. 12:57:31 #dump 12:57:31 No where information for eeviac. 12:57:34 <|amethyst> %dump eeviac 12:57:34 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/eeviac/eeviac.txt 12:57:35 which is the cszo 12:57:42 that one, with the long hallways 12:58:04 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:59:45 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: how to abbreviate it? 12:59:49 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: "em:" ? 13:00:05 -!- blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:00:28 hmm, not sure 13:00:57 that seems a little unclear unless you already know what it means but i suppose that's probably going to be true regardless 13:01:15 <|amethyst> and "emergency:" is a bit too long 13:01:30 <|amethyst> "esc:" ? 13:01:36 "escape:" maybe? or that, yeah 13:01:45 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:20 -!- _D_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:03:16 kraken (05X) | Spd: 14 | HD: 16 | HP: 181-233 | AC/EV: 20/0 | Dam: 50 | cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 12drown | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 2317 | Sp: spawn tentacles, 04esc:ink cloud | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 13:03:16 <|amethyst> %??kraken 13:03:20 black bear (02U) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 19-36 | AC/EV: 2/8 | Dam: 9, 5, 5 | !sil | Res: 06magic(24) | XP: 128 | Sp: 04esc:berserker rage | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 13:03:20 <|amethyst> %??black bear 13:03:36 <|amethyst> maybe the lightred is a bit too much 13:04:39 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:26 cool, that looks alright to me 13:05:33 -!- Raptorwrex has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:06:39 ??bots 13:06:40 bots[1/2]: Bots that can be pm'd: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Ruffell (RHF, #), Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! mostly) 13:06:45 eeviac: use this 13:07:42 Has anyone ever tried to create a bot that can learn to play crawl? 13:07:56 ??xw 13:07:57 xw[1/2]: d->lair->lair:8->d:20->orc->vaults 13:08:02 xw doesnt learn 13:08:19 Crawl would be a great environment for a learning AI 13:09:37 someone did something like xw except it built up knowledge on monsters as it played or something 13:09:57 cool 13:10:25 how did it work out? 13:11:19 MarvinPA: what does xw do about monsters? just not know those things? 13:11:33 or have a compiled-in database? 13:11:50 well, not compiled but wired 13:12:25 <|amethyst> which one's the haskell bot? 13:12:30 <|amethyst> does it have AI? 13:12:50 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:13:00 ah yeah rw is rwbarton's haskell bot i think, i have no idea how it works/what it does though 13:13:18 xw has a list of certain monsters to be scared of and always try to berserk/summon bia, iirc 13:13:34 !rc xw 13:13:35 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/xw.rc 13:17:27 ??xw 13:17:28 xw[1/2]: d->lair->lair:8->d:20->orc->vaults 13:17:32 ??xw[2 13:17:33 xw[2/2]: ah, xw is trying to eat a wand of disintegration 13:17:45 I realized that xw was a bot after seeing some morgues 13:17:49 what the heck? 13:18:10 why would it try to eat a wand? 13:18:34 probably had an off by one in its inventory handling 13:20:13 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 13:21:03 or maybe som more complex bug, like the inventory slot had had a chunk in it and the bot code missed it rotting away 13:21:47 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 13:22:04 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:27:15 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:49 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:00 -!- Kaydis has quit [Quit: bbl] 13:36:45 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:36 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:40:41 autopickup_exceptions = has xw ever gotten a rune? 13:41:16 !lm xw rune 13:41:16 2. [2011-05-14 00:50:51] xw the Ripper (L16 FeBe) found a decaying rune of Zot on turn 48776. (Swamp:5) 13:41:26 neat 13:41:39 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:58 bh: I got an infinite loop in _abyss_apply_terrain(): it keeps consuming abyss_sample_queue which grows at the same speed 13:44:04 has antaeus hit the gym yet 13:44:18 Bloax: he's got some pretty noodly arms there 13:44:31 a live process but no reproducible save, though -- when I kill gdb and it, that's it 13:44:31 -!- Valarioth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:44:40 even pumped up body builders have elbows 13:44:54 it's mostly the right arm 13:44:57 mostly because i suck 13:46:02 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 13:46:40 kilobyte: have I told you about gcore yet 13:46:52 :/ 13:47:30 SamB: there's a command from gdb itself, forgot what 13:47:42 kilobyte: also gcore 13:48:38 you can do less on a core than on a living process, though 13:49:03 and I don't have the executable anymore (ok, can still fish it from /proc/somewhere) 13:53:30 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:54:21 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:16 Unrandart boots by 78291 13:56:40 kilobyte: oh, yeah, that'd be an issue 13:57:33 and yes I realize that you can do less on cores than executables -- sadly much, much less ... 13:58:10 (I mean it'd be nicer if you could actually resurrect processes from core files ...) 13:58:34 (though obviously kind of fiddly to get, say, FDs wired up ...) 13:59:19 wasn't this a major practice in ancient Unices before our times? 13:59:31 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:00:09 * kilobyte heard legends that a number of daemons supported dumping core on startup which they were then restarted from, to speed up loading (IO was cheap, CPU expensive) 14:00:45 -!- Synaptic has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:00:55 once upon a time, yes. demand paging and read-only text pages made it much more difficult 14:01:08 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:02:22 (for that matter I think GNU emacs *still* works that way on at least some platforms) 14:03:03 also, as a historical tie-in, original rogue dumped out its entire data segment to a file and reloaded that 14:03:35 these days, you try that and malloc will blow up spectacularly because it doesn't know about it... 14:04:48 geekosaur: there's a crapload of malloc implementations, both old and new 14:05:35 yes, but what has changed in the meantime is how brk()/sbrk() work. you can't just sbrk() a new data segment and then load it from a file any more 14:05:51 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:04 also that doesn't interact well with atexit, global constructors/destructors, etc. (they would all be overwritten) 14:07:24 kilobyte: sounds like something is pushing items onto the queue with the wrong priority 14:07:30 can't you disable address randomization to make that work? 14:07:34 more complex malloc implementations will also be confused as they allocated stuff for crt0 and then it got overwritten. (plus all the pointers from same will now be pointing to the wrong things)( 14:07:50 it's not address randomization 14:08:40 bh: anything I can do to help you debug? That process is still alive and kicking. 14:08:57 (or would be kicking if I said "cont" :p) 14:09:08 kilobyte: yeah, let me have a look 14:09:23 kilobyte: just kill the process 14:09:49 the screen says: 14:09:50 A small abomination comes into view. 14:09:53 Loading old level 'D:1'. 14:09:56 0 environment effect seeds 14:09:59 Loading old level 'Abyss:2'. 14:10:02 0 environment effect seeds 14:11:08 kilobyte: is this on master? 14:11:17 keeping it for now just in case, it doesn't exactly take much CPU while stopped 14:11:49 yes, let me check the exact version 14:12:33 0.13-a0-3140-gbdcfb35 14:13:05 hrm. How do I reset to that? I don't see a commit gbdcfb35 14:14:06 kilobyte: the sample queue gets pushed on lines 1028 and 1044 of abyss.cc. I'm sure the sample that's getting added has a priority that is less than or equal to the current turn 14:14:12 %s/turn/abyss depth 14:15:21 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:28 bh: it's either "bdcfb35" or "0.13-a0-3140-gbdcfb35"; git will strip the "g" only if it looks like a git-describe 14:17:08 I'm fairly sure of the immediate cause 14:17:14 Has anyone added an abyss layout lately? 14:17:48 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:18:09 not to my knowledge 14:18:17 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:25 abyssal_state.depth = 18446744071562067968 14:18:32 sample = {c = (220187300, 1171133366), ft = DNGN_ROCK_WALL, cp = 2147483648, m = MMT_NONE} 14:18:45 uh... why is the depth a 64-bit value? 14:18:51 sample.changepoint() (cp) is quite a bit less than the depth 14:19:40 oh, ok. depth *should* be 64 bits, but it should only get set to 32 bits 14:21:15 Most of the assignments to depth look sensible: abyssal_state.depth = random_int() & 0x7FFFFFFF 14:22:28 the abyssal depth is 0xffffffff80000000 by the way 14:22:43 bwha? 14:22:50 18446744071562067968 is that 14:24:55 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:09 tags.cc: abyssal_state.depth = unmarshallInt(th); 14:27:25 signed not unsigned 14:27:45 still doesn't explain that particular value of depth 14:29:40 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:42 Is it considered a bug 14:31:50 if in the message what just appeared in view 14:31:57 there is only "skeleton" 14:32:02 other than this specific value, the bug seems obvious to me 14:32:09 while more elaborate information is avaiable? 14:32:12 Ladykiller69: no, only genus is said 14:32:37 Ladykiller69: there were more than one monster incoming, right? 14:32:40 hm 14:32:45 yes 14:32:51 well 14:33:00 not incoming but appearing between my turns 14:33:47 works as designed then. Whether that design is ideal or not that's another question. 14:34:34 -!- Nightbeer has joined ##crawl-dev 14:38:47 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:40:22 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:18 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 14:46:45 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:15 -!- valtern has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:02 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 14:59:10 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:16 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:55 bh: is there a reason abyssal depth is stored as uint64_t if all legal values are uint32_t? 15:02:11 especially because of marshalling 15:02:59 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:07:55 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:09:03 -!- enygmata_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:31 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:12:43 -!- enygmata has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:12:50 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:50 -!- gammafunk_ has quit [Quit: gammafunk_] 15:20:29 -!- Taranyadi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:20:32 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:20:51 -!- Wahaha has quit [] 15:21:55 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:11 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:28:36 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:30:12 which quote would be better from http://sprunge.us/cJXJ ? 15:31:58 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:04 -!- Pedjt has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:38:36 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 15:40:25 -!- BasementCat has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:42:14 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:25 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:42:41 kilobyte: I don't recall 15:44:31 so it should be safe to shorten it, right? 15:44:50 (otherwise, we should change marshalling so saving does no change) 15:45:17 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:38 kilobyte: I *believe* it should be safe to truncate 15:46:51 kilobyte: I made it 64-bit so it could not possibly roll over 15:47:23 ah, and rolling over would break that queue depth check 15:47:30 <|amethyst> but changepoints are uint32_t 15:48:03 <|amethyst> so it either rolls over and you never hit a changepoint, or it goes over 2**32-1 and you never fail to hit a changepoint 15:48:17 masking it with 7FFFFFFF should be good enough 15:48:43 that leaves a buffer in depth of 2^31 15:49:00 You'll get an abyss shift before 2bn turns in the abyss 15:49:06 which explains why unmarshalling it as signed returned 0xffffffff80000000 15:49:31 2bn turns will also end the world 15:50:24 probability for an abyss shift happening within 2bn turns is a tiny tiny bit <1, end of the world is not :) 15:50:43 bh: so fixing unmarshalling is all we need, right? 15:51:15 kilobyte: yep 15:51:25 <|amethyst> it increases by up to ~21 an aut 15:51:41 <|amethyst> (tick that is) 15:51:56 <|amethyst> !lg * max=turns 15:51:58 2566104. apocalypserobin the Farming Insei (L3 VpMo), quit the game in the Temple (circular_temple_6) on 2011-10-25 16:08:51, with 67 points after 199999999 turns and 1d+12:40:50. 15:52:11 -!- Soner has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:12 -!- mkx has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:54:11 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:14 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:50 <|amethyst> so theoretically it could happen that you exceed 2**32 and all changepoints are immediately met. 15:55:34 <|amethyst> if the abyss manages to never shift in ~1.1 billion aut 15:55:55 <|amethyst> oh 15:56:11 <|amethyst> but 5 of that depends on DUR_TELEPORT 15:56:41 <|amethyst> so you'd also have to keep DUR_TELEPORT up most of that time without ever getting a new area on teleport 15:57:09 <|amethyst> and you have to worship Chei 15:57:16 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Quit: The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese] 15:57:33 <|amethyst> and even then it can't actually happen 15:57:41 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:57:45 <|amethyst> because of phase 16:01:25 Has somebody bothered to add a note somewhere about demigods that the most important thing about them is to imagine how cool they are? 16:01:26 <|amethyst> even assuming chei, dur_teleport, and max abyss speed, the average speed is about 30% of that so 7 depth per tick 16:04:55 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3144-gffb8eab: Shorten the abyssal generator depth to 32 bits (fixes an infinite loop). 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ffb8eab3c42d 16:06:38 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:55 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:09:30 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3145-ga98d4f6: Fix a warning. 10(33 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a98d4f6fc739 16:10:36 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 16:15:02 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:11 -!- SamB_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:06 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:02 kilobyte: the fist one there should be the shadow dragon qutoe 16:19:09 quote* 16:19:19 or maybe the SoH but i think it already has one 16:19:45 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 16:20:13 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 16:22:44 does pan have its own layout weights 16:23:42 ontoclasm: I quite fail to see the connection to shadow dragons 16:24:26 well, it's about evil and poison, and mentions the Dragon as the symbol of evil 16:24:59 no poison there 16:25:20 their flesh is filled with hydrochloric acid 16:25:26 and rots you if you eat it 16:26:07 either way, the second one seems more apt for "ward 16:26:51 -!- SpessMahren has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:28:54 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:01 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 16:30:32 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:23 if forest isn't going to be in 0.13, is there anything in need of tiles for release? 16:31:36 i know there are a handful of forest things still missing them, but 16:31:48 bullseye -> large shield if that change is going to stay 16:32:38 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3146-g44f7873: Two new quotes. 10(72 seconds ago, 1 file, 17+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=44f78730efa3 16:35:23 lots of these urands could use new tiles :( 16:37:33 you mean new unrands, or old ones? 16:37:38 old ones 16:38:55 Unfortunately I'm pretty shit at items. 16:38:55 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:38:59 -!- Tarayinda is now known as Taraiph 16:39:01 So :c 16:39:03 yeah, me too 16:39:22 i like gui elements, those are straightforward 16:39:38 pretend the unrands are gui elements 16:39:44 yes 16:40:49 Got any monsters that really stick out as bad? 16:41:11 Bloax: actually, donsidering your style, i wonder if you'd try making a tmons 16:41:15 considering* 16:41:22 tmons? 16:41:31 tentacled monstrosity (03X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 23 | HP: 103-152 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 22, 17, 13, 903(constrict) | 05demonic, 10doors, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(153), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2969 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 16:41:31 %??tentacled monstrosity 16:41:32 oh tentacled monstrosity 16:41:52 should still be a big green thing with no identifiable features aside from lots of horrid tentacles 16:42:22 sadly the current tile is laser green 16:42:32 emh, just use a cthulhu :p 16:42:36 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:43:22 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:34 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/abom/BigScaryAbomination.png 16:43:44 hah 16:43:46 @anyone who has worked on / is responsible for Enchanted Forest 16:43:50 you did a really good job 16:44:29 thanks 16:44:50 i love the layouts, the aesthetics, most of the monsters 16:45:05 it's challenging in completely different ways from the rest of the dungeon 16:45:27 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:46:16 -!- UseBees2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:16 wow congratulations on being the odd person who likes it 16:50:23 But it's good someone does 16:50:39 what don't people like about it? 16:50:47 I think it's mostly a very few monsters 16:50:51 I am of the opinion that many people hate it *because* it is challenging in different ways 16:50:53 That are mostly better now 16:51:04 Yes, that's part of it for sure 16:51:04 yeah that's what i'm thinking geekosaur 16:51:06 and rather than figure it out, they're acting like tavern about it 16:51:19 dryads are the only relatively obnoxious monster 16:51:25 but i can appreciate the design behind it 16:51:31 hm, how do you feel about wellsprings? 16:51:36 oh 16:51:45 yeah i don't like those either 16:51:48 Those are the #1 hated monster in it I think 16:51:52 but only because they get pushed back by elementals 16:51:57 if they didn't do that, i wouldn't care 16:51:58 still a bit obnoxious, but I understand that it's all new and still being tuned 16:52:00 I don't think I found dryads to be too bad either time I've done forest 16:52:16 (wellsprings in particular) 16:52:37 treants were the absolute worst before DracoOmega changed their trick 16:52:39 dryads are annoying in the sense that they're invincible on trees 16:52:44 and there are trees /everywhere/ 16:52:55 well yes, forest rock worms except they do something 16:53:03 that's the obnoxious part 16:53:15 but it forces you into the open, fine 16:53:19 i can appreciate that 16:53:21 yeah forest still needs some tuning which is why it's not ending up in 0.13 16:53:47 yeah understandable 16:53:48 I bet just removing or altering wellsprings would be a sufficient minimum of tuning 16:53:57 but seeing where forest started and where it is now 16:54:01 it's pretty awesome the work that was done 16:54:03 Although obv. better is better 16:54:05 i think wellsprings got changed to not summon elementals now, they just start with a posse of them 16:54:41 I wish I had forest on my current game instead of crypt so I could murder everything inside for yred gifts 16:54:47 yes, I saw that patch 16:54:59 i do have to ask though 16:55:04 what was the point of adding ancient bears? 16:55:12 i mean, it's cool flavor i guess 16:55:19 but was that it? 16:55:23 they thought it was a bear necessity 16:55:27 admittedly I'm not paying much attention to forest right now; I'm attacking a different challenge (getting a magic user even as far as Lair, sigh...) 16:55:30 hm how are those again 16:55:33 ancient bear (08U) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 87-124 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Dam: 38, 18, 18 | !sil | Res: 06magic(56), 05fire | XP: 1484 | Sp: 04esc:berserker rage | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 16:55:33 %??ancient bear 16:55:38 nicolae-: xD 16:55:49 i think they're there for flavor and a little variety 16:55:50 it's like the iron troll of bears 16:55:52 eh, why not, it's a good enough generic dude 16:56:07 -!- randart has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:56:15 i think we need moss giants then 16:56:22 -!- enygmata_ is now known as enygmata 16:56:24 it's like a more dangerous snorg 16:56:25 yeah, it's nice if some monsters in a branch are relatively straightforward 16:56:26 Snorg (09T) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 96 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 20, 15, 15 | 10doors, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(64) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1134 | Sp: berserker rage | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 16:56:26 %??snorg 16:56:46 iron troll (10T) | Spd: 7 | HD: 16 | HP: 63-109 | AC/EV: 20/4 | Dam: 35, 25, 25 | 10doors, regen | Res: 06magic(106), 05fire, 02cold | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 775 | Sz: Big | Int: normal. 16:56:46 %??iron troll 16:56:53 iron troll with less AC 16:57:05 and no rC and faster 16:57:08 And more berserk! 16:57:13 details details 16:57:24 all bears get berserk iirc, it's their genus gimmick 16:57:32 like an iron troll but might potentially kill someone without just straight up silly play 16:57:34 genius* 16:57:38 why would a bear resist fire rather than cold? 16:57:52 because it's ancient? 16:57:55 i always thought it was supposed to be some counterpart to the polar bear 16:57:55 variety maybe 16:57:58 polar bear (16U) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 37-54 | AC/EV: 7/8 | Dam: 20, 5, 5 | amphibious, !sil | Res: 06magic(28), 02cold, 12drown | XP: 295 | Sp: 04esc:berserker rage | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 16:57:58 %??polar bear 16:58:05 rf instead of rc 16:58:06 of course polar bears much weaker 16:58:09 well yes 16:58:14 iirc it's been acclimated to searing sun and forest fires, something like that 16:58:19 cartesian bear? :p 16:58:25 haha 16:58:31 i thought it was entirely just "there should be a thing in forest that resists fire" 16:58:42 oh probably, i imagine the flavor came afterwards 16:58:44 "Centuries of basking in the enchanted sunlight has left its russet fur with a strange warm sheen and an unnatural resilience to heat. " 16:59:28 i'm not sure i've seen wellsprings since they got changed (am i hallucinating this?) to have bands instead of summoning elementals 16:59:35 MarvinPA: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10546572&postcount=18 16:59:37 personally i find dryads about 1000 times worse 16:59:45 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:01:36 I think that change did happen 17:01:50 which does kind of just fix that 17:02:26 yeah if that happened, then i agree 17:02:30 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:04:54 by the way, nothing in forest is half as obnoxious as orb spiders 17:04:57 just throwing that out there 17:06:23 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:17 orb spiders are kind of bad but at least vulnerable to a fair amount of stuff so 17:07:40 yeah, that's true 17:07:46 at least they have low MR 17:08:30 also low HP and bad defenses 17:09:20 ontoclasm: iunno man 17:09:21 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Tentacles.png 17:09:25 Looks more like a killer bush. 17:09:34 i actually like orb spiders as a monster 17:10:16 yeah, it should probably have a body somewhere in the middle 17:12:03 orb spiders are just a "can you kill things in any other way than at melee range" check 17:12:14 which can be bypassed by having enough hp 17:14:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:15:30 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:17:41 ontoclasm: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Tentacle2.png 17:17:43 much better 17:18:12 yes, that is better 17:18:24 biarre requset: can you give it more eyes 17:18:26 there are lots of ways to kill an orb spider, though, and orbs of destruction are at least a thing that you have reasonable defenses against 17:18:45 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19:04 it should look as alien as possible; right now it's got kind of an angry old man face 17:19:16 plus sometimes if you can move right you can get the OODs to blow up other spiders 17:19:21 but it's looking good 17:19:45 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:22 by contrast, dryads can make themselves more or less invincible on top of awaken trees, summon vines (dropping multiple krakens in the middle of forest was not what it needed imo) 17:20:23 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Tentaclebro.png 17:20:39 basically monsters that negate terrain seem to me to be pretty inimical to crawl because terrain manipulation is like the entire game 17:21:10 blah, I've been testing this with a character that can readily tab everything except antaeus in other ends 17:21:16 ontoclasm: I see you spotted the moustache and little beard I gave it. 17:21:27 hah 17:21:52 that's what I get for deciding "oh hey I should test this with a new species" and choosing a gargoyle to do extended 17:22:04 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:23:12 mister redacted said that he'd rather have wellsprings damage themselves when they summon elementals rather than an easily lured away band, for what it's worth 17:23:28 that could work too 17:23:32 It'd make sense for them to do so. 17:23:42 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 17:23:43 Since the water kind of has to come from somewhere! 17:23:43 -!- petete has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:17 but yeah ontoclasm are those eyestalks better 17:24:18 i'm skeptical that would work 17:24:26 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:33 because you already either lure the water elementals away or let them vanish 17:24:39