00:01:15 it sounds like a reasonable effect to me 00:01:29 -!- tilkau has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:01:35 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:25 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:03:03 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:05:27 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:05:59 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3077-gd7f3ed5 (34) 00:13:40 -!- Guest62734 is now known as SwissStopwatch 00:13:45 -!- tatara has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:14:20 one weird thing is isnt shadow creatures a zot trap effect now 00:14:50 FR: Make Murray interesting 00:14:53 Can shadow creatures create OOF 00:15:08 I don't remember seeing any from summoning scrolls, but they might just be rare 00:21:02 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22:13 -!- Soner has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:29:16 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:32:14 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:09 Thyme: Yeah, it can 00:34:36 Thyme: ok, maybe not 00:34:41 -!- whelk has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:39:28 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:45:26 Flayed ghost "flay" condition remained after ghost death by zugundertherug 00:47:22 -!- maahes_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:43 -!- pantaril has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:53:20 -!- Kacy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:00:18 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:28 -!- petete_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:44 -!- Chousuke_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:05 -!- maahes has quit [*.net *.split] 01:09:06 -!- petete has quit [*.net *.split] 01:09:06 -!- magicpoints has quit [*.net *.split] 01:09:06 -!- simmarine has quit [*.net *.split] 01:09:06 -!- hart has quit [*.net *.split] 01:09:06 -!- Slizyboy has quit [*.net *.split] 01:09:06 -!- johlstei has quit [*.net *.split] 01:09:06 -!- SteampunkDuck has quit [*.net *.split] 01:09:06 -!- Dr_Ke has quit 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seconds] 01:18:16 -!- ekix has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:16 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:16 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19:00 -!- Kalma_ is now known as Kalma 01:20:00 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:23:00 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:23:46 -!- F-Glex has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:23:54 -!- Sorbius_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:34 -!- Excedrin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:34 -!- Adder has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:34 -!- Slizyboy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:34 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:25:06 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:10 -!- y2s82_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:26:15 -!- waldfee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:26:34 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:30:16 -!- medgno 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seconds] 02:38:14 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:41:00 -!- thened has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:41:23 -!- Adeon_ is now known as Adeon 02:53:09 -!- thened has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:03:06 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:06:50 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:00 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:50 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:21:27 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 03:24:06 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:25:26 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:27:12 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:37:45 -!- randart has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:39:18 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:01:38 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 04:09:32 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:24 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:19 -!- alefury has quit [] 04:32:54 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:27 -!- maahes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:35:05 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:37:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:00 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:51 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:03:08 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:41 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:14 Acidburn6 the Bludgeoner (L22 GrFi) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1895 failed on turn 50774. (Vaults:5) 05:19:09 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:50 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:25:01 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:26:14 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:37 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:03 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:36:48 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:52:40 -!- duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:08:03 -!- fmul is now known as enygmata 06:14:35 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:10 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:40 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:20 -!- enticeing has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:35:01 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:35:26 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:33 -!- tilkau has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:45:49 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:48:23 <|amethyst> dpeg: 06:48:52 <|amethyst> dpeg: (oops, disregard) 06:50:53 -!- dpeg is now known as disreg 07:00:12 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:08:24 -!- enygmata is now known as fmul 07:10:59 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:10 -!- Frostball has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:12:18 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:22 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:26:00 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:45 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:30:35 Psiweapon (L11 LOFi) ASSERT(f.mons.alive()) in 'tags.cc' at line 1600 failed. (Orc:2) 07:35:27 -!- evablue has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:36:18 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:41:02 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:43 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:50:07 -!- Staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:50:24 alefury: I am at a loss at what to do with these folks who cannot communicate on the forum. Shall we excommunicate them? 07:51:02 maybe make a thread about it in the mod section? 07:51:09 hm, good point 07:51:15 i don't really care about them either way 07:51:26 you're good! 07:52:05 to be honest i skip most posts on the tavern anyway, not just the ones by annoying people 07:55:33 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:56:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57:47 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:04:37 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:05:55 -!- slifty has quit [Client Quit] 08:17:22 -!- fmul is now known as enygmata 08:17:35 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:48 -!- enygmata is now known as fmul 08:18:33 -!- agentgt has quit [Client Quit] 08:20:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:22:38 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:23:46 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:40:12 -!- cptwinky_ is now known as cptwinky 08:45:43 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:56:01 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:58:18 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 09:00:47 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:53 Condense some duplicated menu code for formatted_scroller by chris 09:03:08 -!- axujen has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:27 -!- Flun has quit [Client Quit] 09:10:59 Rename `che_stat_boost` to `chei_stat_boost` by chris 09:13:52 -!- petete_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:51 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:14:55 -!- Burer has quit [Quit: Truly, the end of days.] 09:15:28 -!- Zermako has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:16:33 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:51 -!- Zermako has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:17 -!- petete has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:34 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:23 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:31:13 While in flight, teleporting into lava. by Wraiths 09:34:03 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:27 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:10 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:40:14 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:30 does anyone know if the box in #7563 is actually a vault or if it's one of the things that the level builder can make? 09:44:36 Looks like it may be a feature of layout_gridlike. 09:45:27 but it's stone glass which seems unlikely 09:45:37 i'm guessing a vault 09:45:40 { outer = 'n', inner = 'l', weight = 5 }, 09:45:57 -!- read_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:46:04 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:46:09 yeah, one of the new layouts can definitely do something like that, because i remember complaining about it happening in pan :P 09:46:11 hm 09:47:16 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:28 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 09:47:53 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:58 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:23 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:49:48 -!- Tony_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:50:13 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 09:50:29 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:28 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:32 there's a reaper speech line that's kinda awkward sounding 09:57:18 EMBRACE THE COLD 09:57:28 "everyone has to die one time" 09:59:20 "Don't be afraid now, heroes die too. In fact, you are more of a monster than me.." 09:59:48 "death becomes you" 10:00:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:01:24 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:01:57 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:03:55 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:03 "It's not often you get to try out your new scythe! They're very rare!" 10:05:06 -!- popx has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:06:12 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:15 I should make a cooler reaper sprite. 10:07:23 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 10:09:56 i like the current one :) 10:10:41 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:12:05 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:03 can you abjure mara illusions? 10:13:17 Yes. 10:15:21 oops, apologize for asking that here, thought i was in ##crawl 10:27:56 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.13-a0-3078-g0b54694: Rename `che_stat_boost` to `chei_stat_boost` 10(13 days ago, 4 files, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0b54694bad4c 10:27:56 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3079-g8ee7439: Improve a speech line (ontoclasm) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ee74395fa23 10:28:02 -!- duckroller has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:12 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:32:18 :) 10:35:24 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:54 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:36:16 hm, what's the right way to remove an unrand without breaking save compat? just mark it as nogen and remove it fully when major version is bumped? 10:36:46 (alternatively does anyone have an idea on something that would make the knife of accuracy worth keeping) 10:37:26 make it an exec axe of speed :P 10:37:27 a +27 accuracy dagger is funny 10:37:45 +27,-10 Exec axe of speed. 10:37:52 or triple sword, i guess 10:38:21 it was the best cutting tool back when they were actually needed 10:38:22 also rename it to "Titan's Razor" 10:38:42 or "Antaeus' Razor" maybe 10:39:29 Hanlon's Razor? 10:39:29 Zaba: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:39:31 * Zaba hides 10:39:46 Zaba: nah, Occam's 10:39:50 or that 10:39:59 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:43:06 Hanlon's has the advantage that the quote is better 10:45:15 Dull Skyrazor 10:45:28 a legendary axe that once pierced the skies 10:45:32 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3080-g98ea790: Don't let mute creatures speak (Reaver, #7559). 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98ea790a5a98 10:45:34 if you throw the knife it should count as ranged stab 10:45:42 unfortunately its age has worn its otherwise impressive edge dull 10:45:43 so you'll have to deal with it 10:45:52 it's still very accurate though 10:47:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 10:50:45 Buff Beogh, Trog, and Okawaru by chris 10:54:55 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 23.0/20130807024356]] 11:02:23 -!- Tony_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:03:15 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:05:43 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:06:07 -!- dondy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:05 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:15:53 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:16:54 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:32 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:13 -!- Lightli_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:30:07 -!- sanka has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:30:56 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3081-g0483380: Revert "Prompt for snaking stick weapons." 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0483380d386c 11:32:17 -!- OneEyedJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:36:14 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:40:26 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:50:37 -!- petete has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:58:12 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 12:04:37 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:07:30 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:12:26 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:08 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:45 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3081-g0483380 (34) 12:33:38 -!- eith has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:34:05 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:02 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:46 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:43 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:43 -!- cosmonaut has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:56:27 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 12:59:04 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:59:38 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:03:24 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:13 -!- Burer has quit [Changing host] 13:20:37 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 13:20:42 -!- scummos has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 13:22:16 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:23:03 -!- gammafunk has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:23:21 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:42 -!- randart has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:28:04 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:44 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:03 -!- Guest30728 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38:46 ontoclasm: death has come for you https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/deth.png 13:47:30 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:47:46 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:14 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:03:56 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:09:09 -!- Burer has quit [Quit: Truly, the end of days.] 14:09:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:10:43 -!- Sorbius__ is now known as Sorbius 14:17:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:26 -!- Slizyboy_ is now known as Slizyboy 14:24:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:28:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:29:35 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:34:17 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:34:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:36:40 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:40:45 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:46:46 -!- joelsdaman1 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:48:23 !seen elliptic 14:48:24 I last saw elliptic at Tue Sep 17 18:54:46 2013 UTC (53m 38s ago) saying 'meleeing with ledas is actually pretty terrible' on ##crawl. 14:55:57 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:07:33 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:11:18 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.13-a0-3082-gf5855ac: Adjust Bullseye and the shield of the gong 10(59 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f5855ac9ac63 15:11:18 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.13-a0-3083-gf616a95: Don't generate the knife of Accuracy or boots of the Assassin 10(59 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f616a95481d8 15:14:56 !tell elliptic Can you comment on CBL https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9300 -- either here, or by mail? If the spell is too weak, it should be easy to buff a little. 15:14:57 disreg: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 15:15:01 -!- Jebus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:15:04 Damn, forgot to thank. 15:15:10 !tell elliptic Thank you! 15:15:11 disreg: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 15:15:24 -!- disreg is now known as dpeg 15:16:44 CBL is definitely on the weak side of the power spectrum; I think there are two reasons why it hasn't been buffed yet 15:16:44 elliptic: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:16:54 elliptic: yes? 15:17:13 the first is that just increasing the damage or number of balls is double-edged; more damage, but also more self-damage 15:17:21 so it isn't that clear that this would be a buff 15:17:33 (it probably would be though) 15:18:00 I assume that currently CBL deals damage to the player as it does to monsters? 15:18:30 the second is that discussions about how to buff it tend to turn into discussions about changing the behavior of the balls, which is complicated... so people talk about that and don't come to a conclusion and nothing happens 15:18:58 dpeg: yeah... of course, the player can try to move away from the balls before they explode and can at least be sure to have rElec (1/3 damage) 15:19:09 okay, so what about we just reduce the self damage? 15:19:34 leave the balls be, and keep the rElec requirement (staff of Air exists) 15:20:54 I think the concern there is inconsistency with self-damage from stuff like fireball 15:21:10 reducing self-damage would also help inner flame, which is a similar spell to CBL in many ways 15:21:15 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:36 reduce spell level? 15:21:42 yes! 15:21:46 hehe 15:22:00 reducing spell level of CBL to 6 is a possibility, yeah 15:22:04 i really liked using cbl, but i cant see myself getting it again probably. 7 is pretty prohibitive 15:22:04 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:22:04 * dpeg ponders whether 2 or 3 is better 15:22:16 maybe with no other changes even... could test that in trunk and see how powerful it is 15:22:33 elliptic: would you? (I cannot, and everyone will love you for the buff :) 15:22:33 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:02 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:23 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:33 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:24:09 if nobody else states any concerns or preferences for other (specific) changes in the near future then sure, I'll move CBL to L6 15:24:21 elliptic: ah, feature freeze 15:24:25 (many thanks first) 15:24:43 right it shouldn't be L6 in 0.13 15:24:58 There is this method to make changes stay in trunk, isn't there? 15:26:16 <|amethyst> dpeg: re your PM comment: yeah, I probably could have worded that better 15:26:17 probably easiest to just wait until 0.13 is branched for this, although yeah there can be version-specific checks in code too 15:26:41 it looks like you can check for Version::ReleaseType == VER_ALPHA 15:26:46 <|amethyst> dpeg: I didn't revert because of the screaming (I didn't even see the screaming; it had already been modded out by the time I saw the post) 15:26:56 <|amethyst> dpeg: but I should have made that clearer 15:27:08 though if branching is actually happening soon then might as well wait, yes 15:27:13 |amethyst: no problem with the revert... that is part of the cycle. 15:27:22 <|amethyst> dpeg: I think there were good points about crappy versus non-crappy weapons, and making things more difficult for one or the other group 15:27:29 elliptic: don't worry, I'll try to remember. 15:27:39 Another one: we've been discussing Sticks to Snakes on the forum. 15:27:48 What about only applying it on stackables? 15:28:22 |amethyst: yes, I only complained about the message :) 15:28:51 And if S2S only uses ammunition, how good or bad an idea is it to use the quiver? 15:29:00 <|amethyst> I think quiver is bad 15:29:16 <|amethyst> Because it conflicts with the actual useful use of the quiver 15:29:19 if you quiver ammo but no launcher and try to fire, what happens? 15:29:22 having sticks to snakes only work with stackables would certainly remove a lot of issues, yes 15:29:34 -!- ChickenWing has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:29:39 <|amethyst> requiring to hold the ammo is not just an interface issue, but also a minor balance issue 15:29:48 the whole "pick up random stick weapons off the ground" always seemed annoying to me 15:29:58 <|amethyst> in practice probably very minor, since usually you'd summon your snakes *before* getting into combat 15:30:04 since they use up a lot of inventory space and weight 15:30:05 elliptic: yes, that argument which also convinced me 15:30:09 <|amethyst> but in combat the time to weapon swap can be relevant 15:30:11 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:30:23 yes i would pick up some clubs and eventually stop because it became very tedious 15:30:25 |amethyst: I know, but on the other hand it would be so convenient if you don't throw things 15:30:38 I tend to agree with |amethyst that using the quiver isn't good 15:30:59 |amethyst: i tend to use them only in combat, usually at the start 15:31:04 Does S2S need any buff if we restrict its ingredients pool? 15:31:36 <|amethyst> dpeg: the problem is, Tms don't really have early ranged damage options other than throwing 15:31:48 I don't know how the spell actually determines what sort of snake to create out of arrows 15:32:01 i dont think you can get anacondas out of arrows? 15:32:08 <|amethyst> elliptic: it only looks at poison 15:32:08 like I know it depends on the quality of the stick(s) you use, does it also depend on power? 15:32:12 which may not exactly be a bad thing. anacondas are rather good monsters and it's 2 mp 15:32:18 elliptic, |amethyst: I fully trust you on that one: I did use S2S but only amateurishly (certainly never with actual throwing going in)... and saving a keypress (and keeping focus -- no screen change) are cool to me, but gameplay concerns always trump these. 15:32:20 you can get up to mocassins, based on power 15:32:20 if necessary, could increase dependence on spell power to buff it for arrows 15:32:23 spellpower is involved 15:33:03 not sure it is necessary though, I've only ever used the spell with arrows personally (because picking up sticks is annoying) 15:33:33 multiple adders/mocassins is pretty decent for a level 2 spell yeah 15:33:38 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 15:33:40 <|amethyst> turning an arrow into an anaconda, even if it's a low chance, seems way too powerful 15:33:43 <|amethyst> yeah 15:33:53 You'll quickly run out of arrows. 15:33:58 yes, as i said its 2 mp! probably the same reason you dont see black mambas? 15:34:00 okay, we're fine with just restricting S2S tool pool to ammunition then? 15:34:17 it could require a lot of spell power for a chance, but yeah I agree that it doesn't need to produce anything stronger than moccasins 15:34:38 Moccasins can already take down Gastronok. 15:34:41 So yeah. 15:34:42 <|amethyst> Could make a higher-level "staves to serpents" 15:34:44 could still let xom turn big snakes into big sticks I guess :P 15:34:50 elliptic: sure! 15:35:25 does sticks to snake have a cap? should it? 15:35:36 it has no cap 15:35:38 obviously you're giving up some resource to make snakes 15:35:41 a cap for what 15:35:45 <|amethyst> It does not, because it's not a summon spell 15:35:49 oh that sort of cap 15:35:49 There's already a cap. 15:35:50 <|amethyst> elliptic: summoning cap 15:35:50 number of snakes you could have at once 15:35:51 s2s doesnt really have any of the summon nerfs because its not a summon spell yes 15:35:56 yeah they aren't really summons 15:36:09 If you have a two-tile layer of snakes you can't stuff more into it unless you move. 15:36:12 i do think it would be good if there were more consistent summons behavior 15:36:14 And snakes tend to die pretty fast. 15:36:35 simmarine: maybe a good time to point out it's level 2 :) 15:36:39 it is sort of weird at the moment that "summoned" creatures have a lot of individual quirks in how they behave depending on the source 15:36:39 Bloax: thats not a cap, thats just because theres no room to place them. same thing happens with any other summon 15:37:17 <|amethyst> and is easy enough to avoid: cast, cast, step, cast, cast, step (maybe with some tw or tr in there) 15:37:57 |amethyst: sorry about your trouble with the +S annotation etc. 15:38:00 if you could only go oka for free snake gifts 15:38:31 <|amethyst> dpeg: I wouldn't have reverted it if I didn't think it could be done better :) 15:39:04 |amethyst: that's cool but also shows that designing/discussion could've been better 15:39:11 <|amethyst> dpeg: perhaps I should apologise to BlackSheep since he went through the effort of writing some initfile code to handle the autodescribe 15:39:34 |amethyst: he would certainly appreciate it 15:39:45 <|amethyst> dpeg: Wouldn't be the first time I've jumped to implement something only for a better design to come about :) 15:40:03 a bit weird that items of poison are special cased but others are not 15:40:22 fr ice snakes 15:40:30 kilobyte: how would you go about it? 15:40:40 @??adder simulacrum 15:40:40 adder simulacrum (12z) | Spd: 11 | HD: 2 | HP: 2-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 412(cold:2-5) | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(2), 12cold+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 3 | Sz: little | Int: plant. 15:41:16 -!- whales has quit [Quit: homeward bound] 15:41:24 not sure that's a good idea, though 15:41:28 seems a bit bad to produce undead with the spell just because your arrows are frosty 15:41:43 What would TSO say :) 15:41:50 yes 15:42:30 so it might be good to remove the special case for poison then 15:42:51 kilobyte: I think the ideas was/is that poison is a natural qualifier on snakes 15:43:32 dpeg: arrows tend to produce non-poisonous snakes 15:44:15 hm, I wouldn't know 15:44:32 anyway, just looked up the spell in ?/s and that doesn't mention the special case 15:44:41 arrows: ball pythons, rarely adders and mocassins 15:45:16 weapons: adders, mocassins, mambas and anacondas 15:46:10 just remove the special case? 15:47:33 since everybody stopped talking, a different thing: what do you think about not having enchantment affect thrown weapons? Because then you could get rid of stupid throwing identification. 15:47:42 also it makes sense because projectile enchantment is gone 15:47:45 -!- ontoclasm has left ##crawl-dev 15:47:51 alefury: sounds good, I am in favour 15:48:40 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/dmns2.png Does this look anything like a soul eater? 15:49:37 <|amethyst> alefury: it fits with the way brands work, but I do worry a bit 15:49:49 |amethyst: worry about what? 15:50:03 <|amethyst> alefury: someone sees a randomly generated +4,+4 spear of returning, they're going to assume that +4,+4 means something 15:50:07 <|amethyst> dpeg: ^ 15:50:23 alefury: what's your reasons for that? 15:50:28 they might also assume the returning means something! 15:50:39 also, we even have an unrand made solely for this 15:50:41 in general it seems like returning is a brand that exists mostly for monsters 15:50:50 |amethyst: easy to tell players that the numbers only affect hand-to-hand combat. 15:51:19 <|amethyst> alefury: couldn't one say the same thing about throwing (other than large rocks and curare) 15:51:58 dpeg: would be awkward but doable. I fail to see why would you want this in the first place, though. 15:52:14 I think it is to make identification smoother? alefury? 15:52:18 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:52:47 <|amethyst> so that daggers/spears/clubs don't id their enchantment differently from other weapons 15:53:07 alefury: amunition enchantment is gone, so there are no additional stacking problems, and there are no balance problems from two enchantments 15:53:09 yes, it's really weird how those weapons identify enchantment even when you don't know their curse status 15:53:13 different from all other melee weapons 15:53:23 throwable weapons don't stack in the first place, and have no launchers] 15:53:46 my suggestion: remove throwing of those weapons 15:54:05 <|amethyst> elliptic: for players only? 15:54:15 <|amethyst> because it's kind of important for some monsters 15:54:25 |amethyst: can add a new "throwing axe" thing 15:54:30 which would not be a melee weapon 15:54:31 <|amethyst> hmm 15:54:36 to go in between darts and javelins 15:54:50 <|amethyst> that could make sense 15:54:52 Is there any enemy that throws daggerrs/clubs? 15:54:54 I'd hate something that looks like an axe but doesn't quack like one 15:54:54 it just causes a lot of problems to have some weapons that are both melee and throwable 15:54:58 because they don't stack 15:55:16 <|amethyst> kilobyte: Javelin already does that with spears 15:55:28 <|amethyst> since a javelin is basically... well, a throwing spear 15:55:37 yes, people already ask all the time about polearm skill with throwing javelins/spears 15:55:44 |amethyst: yeah, it's named differently though 15:56:04 this could be named differently too, at least in theory :P 15:56:28 <|amethyst> "tomahawk" for example (granted, those aren't really thrown-only) 15:56:40 <|amethyst> "fransisca" 15:56:45 <|amethyst> s/sis/cis/ 15:57:34 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:57:45 alternatively, don't add a new throwable, and just let the few monsters that throw spears or axes have darts or javelins instead (or a chance of either) 15:57:51 !tell ontoclasm does this look anything like a soul eater to you: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/dmns2.png 15:57:52 Bloax: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 15:59:33 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:03:01 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 16:03:11 these monsters get throwing weapons: 1. base merfolk: spear: 1/3 chance, 100% if band leader is a javelineer; 2. base orc: 1/20 chance for hand axe/spear; 3. orc warrior: 1/20 chance (1/9 in Orcish Mines) for a hand axe/spear 16:03:26 that's all, not counting vaults 16:03:33 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:03:51 hm, a melee vs throwing distinction does make sense 16:04:45 it would nerf throwing, though: mulchable stuff is pretty limited 16:05:02 well, if they spawned javelins instead with more frequency, that would be a big boost to early throwing 16:06:03 Lehudib's Crystal Spear the randart would need to go. I'd cry so much... 16:06:13 <|amethyst> kilobyte: gnolls might not spawn with them, but they also have a tendency of throw spears 16:06:30 <|amethyst> kilobyte: e.g. if they start with them and then pick up a better weapon 16:07:24 <|amethyst> kilobyte: or it could have special-case code as randarts are wont to do (but, yeah, it could go) 16:07:24 <|amethyst> s/do/have/ 16:07:44 I'd rather make it an artefact javelin instead 16:07:50 <|amethyst> I 16:07:53 <|amethyst> ... 16:07:56 <|amethyst> can you do that? 16:08:01 (except, it wouldn't be named "spear", and thus lose its theme reason) 16:08:29 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:33 there's no artefact ammunition right now, but that's SMOC 16:08:34 You could just leave it in as the only throwing spear. It's an artefact. 16:08:43 yes 16:08:59 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:09:01 <|amethyst> or it could be a spear that evokes to fire a 100% mulching javelin :) 16:09:08 <|amethyst> oh, right 16:09:12 Soner: uh no, keeping all the throwing weapon code just for one unrand would be bad 16:09:12 <|amethyst> evoke is already used 16:09:32 not for LCS 16:09:58 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:10:10 it's a regular +6 spear {return, INT+3} 16:10:28 <|amethyst> c - large rock "The Iron Shot" 16:10:34 kilobyte: I didn't know there was a lot of throwing weapon code. That makes sense. 16:10:52 Soner: mostly monster AI logic 16:11:34 -!- mineral has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:15 Chief's artefact javelin from Goblins 16:13:22 Gotta work, let me summarise: 1. CBL to be level 6. 2. S2S to only use arrows. [Not sure if there is concensus to remove the special case; it is fine by me.] 16:13:29 -!- Voker57 has quit [] 16:14:00 MIRVs into five elec-branded pieces in flight, then disappears and magically re-appears in the wielder's hand (sort of like our returning) 16:20:54 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:21:13 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:53 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 16:25:53 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 16:26:56 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:30 -!- elliott_ has left ##crawl-dev 16:34:44 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:31 -!- randart has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:21 -!- sumguy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:42:55 -!- duckroller has quit [Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)] 16:43:54 -!- Porost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:01 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:44:21 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:27 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45:10 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:52:51 -!- Lantell has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:57:17 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:57:54 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:03 -!- Lantell has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:45 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:35 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:06 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:16 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:07:28 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:09:15 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:36 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 17:12:30 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:12:59 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 17:13:55 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:14:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:17:46 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: ninja kapow] 17:18:31 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19:02 -!- Xjs|moonshine has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:21:06 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:24:37 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:06 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:28:07 -!- enygmata has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:39 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:38:53 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:43:25 -!- Xiberia has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:44:09 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:31 <|amethyst> galehar: any thoughts on reducing the encumbrance of CPA and GDA? Because of the quadratic, -19 to -24 is a pretty big difference. kilobyte brought this up at one point re: making the larger armour more attractive 17:45:50 maybe better !tell or mail? 17:45:57 <|amethyst> oh, good point 17:46:10 <|amethyst> !tell galehar Any thoughts on perhaps reducing the encumbrance of CPA and GDA? Because of the quadratic, -19 to -24 is a pretty big difference. kilobyte brought this up at one point re: making the larger armour more attractive 17:46:11 |amethyst: OK, I'll let galehar know. 17:46:25 get rid of encumbrance ratings entirely, let casters wear CPA 17:46:55 <|amethyst> Get rid of AC entirely 17:47:12 remove all armor 17:47:16 nudist crawl 17:47:20 <|amethyst> And hit points... every hit is a head shot :) 17:47:24 yes 17:47:32 <|amethyst> oh wait 17:47:33 it worked for mario 17:47:37 <|amethyst> we already have meatsprint 17:47:39 cpa probably doesn't need it much, could be worth adjusting dragon armours though 17:47:50 make some of the heavy dragon armours a bit lighter and the light dragon armours a bit heavier maybe 17:47:59 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:48:36 <|amethyst> .echo $(/ $(* 24.0 24.0) $(* 19 19)) 17:48:36 1.5955678670360112 17:48:55 <|amethyst> at the same str, CPA has 60% more evp than PA 17:49:06 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:49:56 is that necessarily bad? 17:50:22 it also gives much more AC and is meant to appeal more to chars who care less about evp 17:50:46 <|amethyst> yeah, I guess with 40% more AC it's not quite that bad a trade 17:51:48 I wouldn't mind moving CPA or GDA down a bit, though I think PA could probably also go down to 18 17:53:45 could you guys suggest list(s) of values for the heavy armours? 17:53:47 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:53:58 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 17:58:55 <|amethyst> I could pull numbers out of my arse, but they probably wouldn't be good ones for game play 18:00:45 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:02:08 <|amethyst> /nick notadesigner :( 18:03:06 <|amethyst> (I'm learning, but not quickly :) 18:03:17 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 18:06:42 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 18:21:30 <|amethyst> re: bullseye, what about increasing the enchantment? 18:21:45 <|amethyst> since +15 is less significant on a large shield than on a shield 18:21:47 <|amethyst> +27 for example :) 18:22:13 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:22:49 I wouldn't know... MarvinPA? elliptic? 18:23:07 it probably couldn't hurt 18:23:10 <|amethyst> Since the theme seems to be "Have a lot of sh. Hope you have fun with that".... might as well go over-the-top 18:23:19 the worst that could happen is "it still sucks" 18:25:07 ??bullseye 18:25:08 bullseye[1/1]: A +15 shield that provides -5 EV. In case you were having trouble getting hit. 18:25:17 <|amethyst> SamB: now a large shield 18:25:56 <|amethyst> maybe +27 would be too good, but large shield with -5 ev seems like it would be very niche no matter what the enchantment 18:25:57 I was just wondering where the "bullseye" aspect came in 18:26:07 <|amethyst> SamB: the -EV 18:26:14 yeah, I got that thanks ;-) 18:26:16 it's made from minotaur eyes, it's very messy 18:26:19 <|amethyst> oh 18:26:30 just... retina goop everywhere 18:26:46 <|amethyst> SamB: sorry, misunderstood the tense/aspect of your verb 18:26:54 ??gong 18:26:54 shield of the gong[1/3]: +6 shield {Spirit, rElec rN+ MR} This shield surely will be heard! 18:27:08 <|amethyst> %git HEAD^ 18:28:16 07MarvinPA02 * 0.13-a0-3082-gf5855ac: Adjust Bullseye and the shield of the gong 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 3+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f5855ac9ac63 18:28:16 * SamB prods Cheibriados 18:28:55 what about? 18:31:59 * Zannick prods Cheibriados 18:32:24 fr god of weed 18:32:33 did xom manage to keep a straight face for once? 18:32:45 at * evoke clouds of smoke 18:32:52 i don't have any other ideas to go with the joke 18:34:04 at ** you pass drug tests 18:34:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:34:17 sorry, people were singing and playing guitar next door so i had to leave :/ 18:34:42 <|amethyst> alefury: That is somewhat ambiguous 18:35:00 at *** you can pass it to an enemy to pacify them 18:35:11 an intelligent enemy * 18:35:16 <|amethyst> alefury: You had to leave because it was so good you had to listen, or because it was so bad you had to go far away 18:35:35 generally I think throwing weapons is a bit weird, but I can mostly just not bother except when monsters do it 18:36:07 but every once in a while there are bug reports or players wondering about stuff getting identified for no reason 18:36:47 if players think "something is wrong there" for a long time, something probably needs changing 18:36:52 i saw an idea earlier of separating throwing and bonking weapons in the case of axes and spears 18:37:00 which sounded interesting 18:37:17 under what circumstances does throwing ID weapons? 18:37:17 also enchantment on thrown weapon doesn't really serve a point because throwing weapons is just an early game ting 18:37:26 and in the early game you don't have enchant scrolls 18:37:35 <|amethyst> SamB: when your throwing skill increases, the weapon is in your inventory, and the weapon is throwable 18:37:39 iirc it's when you're wielding a throwable weapon and have sufficiently high throwing skill 18:37:49 so might as well take that away and make identification simpler and more intuitive 18:37:56 is that basically the same as what happens with skills? 18:37:58 <|amethyst> SamB: it's the same "when it reaches this random hidden number" as for weapon skils 18:38:04 er. weapon skills? 18:38:09 |amethyst: it was so good i had to listen, also i like my neighbors :) 18:38:12 yeah, I guess 18:38:16 * SamB has a fuzzy memory 18:39:03 alefury: missles already don't get enchanted I thought? 18:39:04 <|amethyst> SamB: The reason it is this way is because of the theoretically possibility of someone doing a lot of target practice and tabulating numbers to determine the enchantment without having to wield the weapon and risk curse or distortion 18:39:41 that sounds like a highly theoretical possibility 18:39:42 SamB: yes, but for thrown weapons enchantment matters, for some reason 18:39:54 <|amethyst> SamB: well, it's really the same reason we have the system for melee ID 18:39:54 SamB: kilobyte considers it important 18:40:36 |amethyst: is it really 18:40:48 I think we should make weapons non-throwable. Just need to find a throwing axe replacement for kilobyte. 18:40:58 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:41:00 so how come we don't require the player to reach laboratory conditions before giving the enchantment away 18:41:10 <|amethyst> SamB: :) 18:42:55 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:43:02 instead of throwing clubs, replace them with boomerangs 18:43:23 but only boomerangs of returning actually work 18:43:59 of course they'd have innate returning 18:44:20 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:44:22 -!- eith has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:44:28 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 18:44:37 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:44 nicolae-: the NH devteam spent half a decade to code the boomerang 18:45:04 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:45:09 yeah they also spent a whole decade not releasing 3.5 soooooo 18:47:30 so, when you hit something with a boomerang, is it stunned? 18:47:54 with the power of imagination anything is possible 18:49:11 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Quit: ₪₪₪-₪₪₪-₪₪-₪₪₪] 18:51:49 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:13 03ChrisOelmueller02 {elliptic} 07* 0.13-a0-3084-g6dc076b: Use piety_breakpoint in gift code 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6dc076b052de 18:53:13 03ChrisOelmueller02 {elliptic} 07* 0.13-a0-3085-g4498b33: Buff Beogh (orcish weapons are 6 piety better) 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4498b33771a4 18:53:13 03ChrisOelmueller02 {elliptic} 07* 0.13-a0-3086-g4ed087b: Buff Beogh: orcish armour is better 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ed087b9a073 18:53:13 03ChrisOelmueller02 {elliptic} 07* 0.13-a0-3087-g197bf0f: Buff Trog and Oka: gifts can happen earlier 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=197bf0fafbdf 18:53:13 03ChrisOelmueller02 {elliptic} 07* 0.13-a0-3088-gbf69271: Convert Beogh armor bonuses to piety_breakpoint 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf692714340d 18:53:13 03ChrisOelmueller02 {elliptic} 07* 0.13-a0-3089-gbf20af9: Trog's Hand failure chance: guarantee success at 75 piety (was: 80) 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf20af9d5b04 18:53:13 03ChrisOelmueller02 {elliptic} 07* 0.13-a0-3090-g77324f1: Use piety_breakpoint 100 in gifting code 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=77324f1d651b 18:53:13 03ChrisOelmueller02 {elliptic} 07* 0.13-a0-3091-gfa329ec: Use piety_breakpoint 30 in good god code 10(13 days ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fa329ecffc12 18:53:13 03ChrisOelmueller02 {elliptic} 07* 0.13-a0-3092-g1832de8: Use piety_breakpoint 100 in miscast code 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1832de8fca92 18:54:20 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:55:45 -!- Gotham_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58:54 -!- Gotham has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:59:40 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 19:00:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 19:01:16 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:38 -!- Guest12534 is now known as Wensley 19:06:25 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:07:58 -!- Gotham_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:37 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:11:30 -!- myp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:09 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 19:15:44 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:44 -!- gammafunk has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:41 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:01 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:25:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:27:06 -!- GiantOwl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:27:12 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:13 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:36:11 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:36:22 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:13 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 19:37:38 -!- diazepan has quit [Quit: diazepan] 19:43:25 SamB, dpeg: actually, the whole problem with throwing auto-iding stuff is a red herring. It remains only because no one bothered to copy an auto-id script yet. 19:43:25 kilobyte: eh? 19:43:25 you need to hit any enemy a bunch of times with the weapon, and statistical analysis will give you both to-hit and to-dam really soon 19:43:25 this is not the typical statistical math, but something akin to random_var 19:44:04 ie, you get information about a number of buckets, recovering the enchantment from that is faster than it would be from a mere average 19:44:26 buckets such as? 19:44:59 kilobyte: what I proposed for Brogue in this case (and what Pender immediately used <3) was this: the enchantment is only effective when it is known. 19:45:19 that sounds STRANGE 19:45:20 It is not so silly as it may sound. 19:45:51 obviously instead of auto-ID we could just have EVEN MORE ID scrolls 19:46:02 you know that a monster had hp between 12 and 15, and after a hit with message "You eviscerate Foo like a wet sheet." it is between 3 and 5 19:46:05 SamB: why the snappiness? 19:46:26 and that's a single hit 19:46:35 sorry, I, uh, misplaced my italics key 19:46:47 not my business 19:47:13 kilobyte: oh, right 19:47:30 hardly any IRC client or terminal supports italic :p 19:48:07 meaning: I just meant caps for emphasis 19:48:18 I sense a certain lack of desire to obtain actual solutions with some developers. 19:48:20 there are two options: what dpeg suggested, which feels wrong to me, and iding the enchantment on wield 19:49:20 SamB: I know that, and I wasn't talking about the caps. 19:49:20 39. CAPSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL. 19:49:20 40. EVEN WITH CRUISE CONTROL YOU STILL HAVE TO STEER. 19:49:20 capslock is that key I'm supposed to rebind to control, right? 19:49:22 italic has no such problems :p I'd use bold. 19:49:33 the brogue solution works pretty well there, but i wouldn't really be against iding weapon enchantment on wield either 19:49:35 kilobyte: go ahead. I think you're losing something but it not a lot, of course. 19:49:36 reverse color for life 19:49:54 i don't think weapon enchantments are quite as meaningful as brogue's enchantments on rings and so on 19:49:55 SamB: some google laptops have this, and it sucks while coding 19:50:14 kilobyte: they must be Emacs laptops 19:50:22 MarvinPA: yes, I agree. What it does lose, in my opinion, is the flavour that you're better with certain kinds of weapons. 19:50:47 they bind it to spawning a browser and going to the search page 19:50:55 kilobyte: oh 19:50:56 No need for the 4colorful language. 19:50:57 that's not emacs 19:50:59 well hopefully the difference in damage output still gets that across :P 19:51:00 <_< 19:51:00 what's the point of that, I can't fathom 19:51:01 but yeah i see what you mean 19:52:28 actually, weapons and armour working differently is strange 19:52:45 * SamB ponders making unskilled wielders of advanced weapons do themselves damage 19:53:28 kilobyte: I am not around here very often... I'd really suggest that whenever something seems to reach concensus, you actually take it (not necessarily straight to code, but at least keep it somewhere). Whenever I am here, I try to achieve actual solutions but it is tough going and not really my business, I feel. 19:53:32 I guess armour fully ids itself because functions with calc_unid are relatively new, so in old Crawl AC changes were obvious 19:53:45 So in this case: there is no objection to wield-id, so go ahead. 19:55:18 that still leaves throw ID 19:55:18 er, throwing ID 19:55:18 I'd make weapons and armour work the same, either id on wield or no id. However, as I don't want people getting extra information for having a script, in the second case enchantment would need to be disabled. 19:55:18 ID on wield sounds fine to me 19:55:20 do we just drop it and say "wield it if you want to know"? 19:55:44 SamB: well I still want to separate throwables and wieldables, regardless of this 19:55:45 if throwing and melee weapons get fully separated then throwing weapons would just not have enchantments i guess 19:55:49 yes 19:55:51 SamB: would be okay, yes 19:55:52 SamB: can throw it a number of times 19:55:55 MarvinPA: yeah 19:56:22 But I also think separation is best. I would have listed it above, but kilobyte objected, on flavour grounds (throwing axes). 19:56:22 MarvinPA: as throwing weapons wouldn't be weapons anymore 19:56:36 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:56:47 dpeg: I objected to throwing axes being named axes, not to separation itself 19:56:56 alright 19:56:57 call them hatchets 19:57:01 tomahawk 19:57:05 throwy choppy thing 19:57:05 or that 19:57:07 Tomahawk. 19:57:07 I certainly agree that "throwing axe" is not the ideal name 19:57:08 Perfect. 19:57:14 hatchet sounds good 19:57:24 (says my dictionary) 19:57:38 "francisca" would fit it best, but the term is probably too obscure 19:57:50 neither D&D nor popular video games use it :p 19:57:53 kilobyte: no way, we can always educate our players :) 19:57:53 tomahawk has more connotations of being a weapon, hatchet to me could just mean a small axe 19:57:54 I've seen it used, but... yeah 19:58:02 HATCHET, n. A young axe, known among Indians as a Thomashawk. 19:58:04 I suggested also just giving monsters darts or javelins as necessary, if we can't come up with a name we like 19:58:10 Then again Crawl does love weird names for stuff sometimes 19:58:14 let's just use tomahawk, hatchet, and francisca, three different levels of throwing axe 19:58:17 elliptic: might be better, yeah 19:58:18 or just weird stuff 19:58:33 ...we don't need multiple types of throwing axe. 19:58:33 SwissStopwatch: for items? 19:58:47 weird names is me misspeaking 19:58:47 javelins from orc warriors would be probably too good 19:58:49 seems the two words are more-or-less synonymous 19:58:50 Typical case of "coder decides", if you ask me. 19:58:59 we need multiple types of everything, grunt 19:59:22 !send nicolae- a hand crossbow 19:59:23 Sending a hand crossbow to nicolae-. 19:59:25 !send nicolae- a staff 19:59:25 and kilobyte seems to have a better dictionary than dict.org has :-( 19:59:25 Sending a staff to nicolae-. 19:59:29 !send nicolae- a spiked flail 19:59:30 Sending a spiked flail to nicolae-. 20:00:03 thank you for the gifts grunt i will treasure them always :) 20:02:21 !rng hatchet tomahawk 20:02:21 The RNG chooses: tomahawk. 20:02:21 SamB: I didn't use one :p The benefit of being a non-native speaker is that you don't have any idea which word is common which is not, which makes you sound as a highly educated person with a great vocabulary :p 20:02:21 hahaha 20:02:21 kilobyte: where have you seen the word? 20:02:21 figures it was used by the franks 20:02:26 monsters who get weapons: orcs, orc warriors, merfolk. Vaults: _only_ Baileys, but four of them. 20:02:44