00:01:36 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3060-g5a62039 (34) 00:03:14 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:05:40 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:06:36 Stable (0.12) branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.12.2-36-gdb43a97 00:07:07 -!- Porost_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:25 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:28 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:09:30 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:09:31 -!- gammafunk_ is now known as gammafunk 00:09:38 -!- SamB_ is now known as SamB 00:11:01 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3060-g5a62039 (34) 00:19:36 -!- Taraiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:19:39 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:24:45 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 00:35:09 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3060-g5a62039 00:35:50 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:38:12 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:48:37 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:51:15 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:02 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:43 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:08:04 -!- coyo7e has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:08:37 well draco managed to piss someone else off pretty badly! heh 01:08:53 that being said, plague shamblers could use a description mentioning their miasma... 01:09:06 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:09:10 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:58 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:35 -!- pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:43 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:23:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:15 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:26:04 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:38:24 HobsGoblin (L18 HOFi) ASSERT(f.mons.alive()) in 'tags.cc' at line 1600 failed. (D:19) 01:39:58 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:41:28 -!- pacra has left ##crawl-dev 01:41:29 -!- pacra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:06 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:11:03 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:11:17 I noticed that yred doesn't give you "desecrating holy remains" credit for raising an apis as a zombie 02:11:19 shouldn't it? 02:15:18 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:18:08 -!- Stelpa_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:18:14 fr: yred gifts you profane servitors only as you kill angels 02:18:37 Eronarn: it's like take-a-penny/leave-a-penny 02:19:25 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:23:53 flayed ghosts can flay as they flee 02:33:16 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:36:26 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 02:39:16 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:47:14 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:51:37 -!- gammafunk has left ##crawl-dev 02:56:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:57:14 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:58:04 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:48 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:07:48 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:16 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:18:49 -!- maahes_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:50 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:19:43 -!- maahes__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:36:52 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49:54 -!- archaeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:53:18 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:57:59 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:07 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:43 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:06:46 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:26 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 04:08:37 -!- Xenobreeder_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:12:21 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:59 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 04:13:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:50 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:05 -!- omnirizon has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:25:44 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 04:29:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:34:37 -!- nubcakes has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:46:25 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:52 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:05:24 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:46 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:49 -!- pantaril has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:23:40 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:25 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:59 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 05:32:47 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 05:38:21 -!- maahes has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:44:49 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:04:58 -!- enygmata has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:27 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:09:30 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:16:03 -!- Elkan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:22:49 -!- Insomniak has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:23:03 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:05 !seen bh 06:23:06 I last saw bh at Sun Sep 15 07:47:14 2013 UTC (3h 35m 51s ago) quitting with message 'Quit: sleep'. 06:23:13 !seen tenofswords 06:23:14 I last saw tenofswords at Sun Sep 15 03:00:08 2013 UTC (8h 23m 5s ago) quitting with message 'Read error: Connection reset by peer'. 06:23:31 !tell tenofswords Could you send me an email? Thanks! 06:23:32 dpeg: OK, I'll let tenofswords know. 06:28:48 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 06:36:01 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:43 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:28 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:39 There is some debate on the forum about Sticking2Snake rods (and staves). Opinions vary between (1) always prompt, (2) make them non-wooden, so that spell cannot applied to rods/staves, (3) auto-inscribe rods and staves with !D. Either of these is an improvement -- what do you think? 07:01:10 If nobody cares, I'll just add the inscription to the default options. 07:10:04 I have to say I don't really like any of these options... how are rods/staves different from here from any good stickable item? 07:10:59 er, snakable... you know what I mean :P 07:11:33 like, ogres and trolls already have to worry about snaking their giant clubs, right? 07:11:38 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:13:12 seems bad to special-case some items so that people might not even realize they have to worry about messing up with the spell with the other items 07:14:14 also, about the inscription, it would be confusing clutter for players who don't use this spell (i.e. most players) 07:18:02 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 07:24:31 elliptic: the idea is just to have fewer typo-related mis-stickings. 07:24:47 Yes, I agree the option is not so hot. 07:25:12 However, I have the feeling we can improve the interface here. 07:25:37 there are lots of spells that are bad if you accidentally cast them 07:25:50 yes, but rods are particularly rare items 07:26:06 borg, death's door, any spell with a really high miscast rate 07:26:14 elliptic sounds like the NH devteam: "Those players should watch carefully what they do with their fat fingers!" 07:26:45 people already have ways of dealing with this... put spells on capital letters if you want to be less likely to cast them accidentally 07:27:11 also people can manually put the inscription on if they prefer 07:27:40 Don't we already auto-inscribe distortion weapons? 07:27:56 dpeg: yes, because that inscription is useful for 100% of players 07:28:02 this one would be useful for 5% of players 07:28:27 I agree. But then: among S2S users, how often are rods/staves used intentionally? 07:29:01 dpeg: how often is a +9 GSC of freezing used intentionally? 07:29:19 okay, okay 07:29:52 I believe these are mistakes on the level of "unthinking act" but if you say they're alright, I won't argue. 07:30:39 it just feels bad to me to special-case some items but not others... as I said earlier, it's maybe more likely to make people careless with using the spell 07:31:13 dpeg: this whole situation is similar to that of sacrificing items with nemelex 07:31:18 yes 07:32:10 But I think it is easier to estimate player intention (i.e. whether the game should prompt or not) for S2S than it is for Nemelex. 07:33:23 dpeg: it's been proposed in the past that S2S should only work on arrows 07:33:39 that would solve this issue also :P 07:35:31 I guess prompting for all non-arrows might not be bad 07:36:52 yes, only on stackables 07:37:29 elliptic: I was about to propose that... in this case, might be possible to refine by "only prompt if non-stackable or there is no other item just like this is inventory" 07:37:33 daughter is calling, need to play 07:38:11 I'd just say prompt on non-stackable 07:38:41 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:43 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:47:44 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:51:41 grisnicke (L17 HOFi) ASSERT(f.mons.alive()) in 'tags.cc' at line 1600 failed. (Vaults:3) 07:52:57 Moth of wrath berserked an ice dragon through wall by Wahaha 08:02:46 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:06:46 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:11:19 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:11:30 -!- Soner has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:28:24 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:34:16 subtle the Ducker (L8 HaWn) ERROR in 'mon-act.cc' at line 2461: infinite handle_monsters() loop, mons[0 of 31] is freed slave (D:6) 08:38:01 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:54:42 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:49 -!- axujen has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:12:00 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:54 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:17:36 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:08 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:24:50 fr: replace s2s with breathe bees 09:29:26 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 09:31:44 fr: a breath weapon that attracts fish 09:32:05 (but i'm not going to wait for baited breath) 09:33:24 fish or cut bait? 09:48:59 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:24 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:59 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:43 -!- Taraiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:23:03 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 10:24:47 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:33:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:50 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:45:50 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:49:59 -!- duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:57:56 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Quit: Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector] 11:07:31 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:13 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:36 -!- duralumin_ is now known as duralumin 11:21:04 -!- duralumin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:27:49 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3061-g9e296d3: Properly extend Dazzling Ray with Vehumet (#7553) 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9e296d333b44 11:29:03 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 11:32:37 Grunt, SamB: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F021.jpg -- especially the first line of the subsequent page. 11:33:33 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:42 -!- lunarharp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:36:06 <|amethyst> !lm wahaha hutm place=zot:5 -2 -tv:<0:>1 11:36:06 1/2. Wahaha, XL27 HuTm, T:106413 (milestone) requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 11:36:36 <|amethyst> oh, not even glass 11:37:54 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:37:58 <|amethyst> I'm assuming moths of wrath aren't supposed to work through walls 11:41:33 <|amethyst> #7555 11:42:10 <|amethyst> I think it's a bug, but I'm a little wary of changing it and altering zot:5 balance 11:43:37 <|amethyst> The fix would be to pass the moth rather than a circle_def to the monster_iterator _moth_incite_monsters (and to add a range check inside the loop) 11:43:44 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:05 <|amethyst> Or, if they're not supposed to affect monsters through glass either, getting its los_no_trans 11:44:07 I'm thinking I should rollback my rock change 11:44:16 at least until we figure out a nerf strategy 11:44:48 <|amethyst> is it being abused? 11:45:00 bh: what change? 11:45:15 <|amethyst> %git 02ff1875 11:45:15 07bh02 * 0.13-a0-3048-g02ff187: Make Large Rocks penetrating 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 11+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=02ff1875cfc3 11:47:01 <|amethyst> bh: could maybe make it work only in trunk (adding "&& Version::ReleaseType === VER_ALPHA" to the penetrating check 11:47:03 <|amethyst> ) 11:47:29 <|amethyst> or revert and re-apply after the fork 11:48:29 |amethyst: yes, trunk only sounds good to me 11:48:56 I think the change is interesting but warrants a nerf. I'm for reduced mulching rate, but we can discuss that after release. 11:50:08 |amethyst: I'll make it trunk only. 11:50:29 thank you 11:50:33 -!- ParallaxScroll has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:51:35 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:52:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:12 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:07 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3062-g7cc1082: Fix a reversed debug message. 10(14 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7cc1082958c8 11:57:07 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3063-g69fad1d: Make Dj and LO trunk-only. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=69fad1d4199d 11:57:07 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3064-gf0ae9dd: Make the Forest trunk-only. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f0ae9ddb4788 11:58:14 <|amethyst> kilobyte: for the manual, should we remove them on the wiki, sync, then re-add them; or should we manually remove them from the repo copy after forking? 11:58:39 o_0 we build the manual from the wiki? 11:58:52 <|amethyst> the dev wiki 11:58:59 ah 11:59:23 for 0.12 the wiki copy was kept up-to-date with the 0.12 branch up until release, 0.13 stuff didn't start going in until after that 11:59:50 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:59 but yeah that's sort of awkward, especially since there's already documentation written up for lo/dj 12:00:25 see, this is why I don't like the way we wikified it :-( 12:00:30 maybe it needs a temporary separate page so it can still be synced as normal? 12:01:42 let's just leave the entries in there and add ones for Michael and Elms 12:03:35 03bh02 07* 0.13-a0-3065-g806dfee: Make Penetrating Rocks trunk only. 10(38 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=806dfee9e894 12:04:19 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.13-a0-3066-gd1802da: Add no_rtele_into to a temple entry vault with flame clouds 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 40+ 38-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d1802da962ba 12:04:45 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:04:57 incidentally i was taking a look at the xpwrath branch to see if that was in a state that could be merged for 0.13 12:05:29 but it looks like it doesn't actually contain anything that's not in master already? possibly i screwed up my git-fu but i couldn't find anything in it 12:06:10 -!- Soner has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:03 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: looks like no one ever committed to it 12:07:24 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.2-37-gc4994d8 12:07:42 ah :/ 12:07:49 xpwrath is someone else's branch, not mine, right? 12:07:54 i think it's yours :P 12:08:06 why the heck did someone push a branch before adding any commits? 12:08:08 yeah. Draco and I reviewed that and decided it shouldn't be merged, ever. 12:08:38 oh ok, i was thinking that it wouldn't be that big a change since it's already implemented and working for ashenzari 12:08:50 It's easy to do badly. 12:09:11 There are a number of edge cases around penance 12:09:18 <|amethyst> Should there be a way to undo draining other than time? 12:09:25 <|amethyst> s/time/gaining XP/ 12:09:37 <|amethyst> currently, outside of wizmode, the only other way to reverse draining is to die as a felid 12:09:45 fair enough, maybe that's something more longterm then. definitely something i'd like to see though, current wrath is really pretty bad 12:10:17 MarvinPA: I'm with you 100%. I just haven't had time to do a good job of it and don't want to push something half-assed 12:10:37 |amethyst: potion of restore abilities? :) 12:11:22 <|amethyst> I wouldn't want to make it too easy to do or the effect is toothless; but being drained to zero skill is more or less a slow death sentence (since it's kind of difficult to get XP with no skills) 12:11:29 not sure if dying should reverse draining: XP survives death 12:11:46 <|amethyst> kilobyte: draining isn't about XP any more though 12:12:14 |amethyst: except for coming back as you get XP, you mean? 12:12:26 <|amethyst> kilobyte: right 12:13:09 -!- Soner has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:26 could it just have a limit on how far you can drained? 12:13:29 maybe restore ability should remove a given amount of draining? 12:13:30 can be* 12:13:43 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3066-gd1802da (34) 12:13:45 i'm not a huge fan of adding more unrelated effects to restore abilities personally 12:13:51 kilobyte: I think dying should undo draining. If a felid is poisoned and gets bashed in with a club, they shouldn't come back at poisoned 12:13:55 yeah, having a way to undo it by means of a potion or something would be nice 12:13:59 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:14:03 MarvinPA: I agree, hence :) 12:14:10 <|amethyst> could make potion of XP do it :) 12:14:15 MarvinPA: or perhaps it could have greatly diminishing effects the more drained you already are 12:14:15 heh 12:14:18 hah 12:14:23 |amethyst: does that not already happen? 12:14:28 kilobyte: yeah, that'd be better than a hard limit 12:14:28 kilobyte: it could be logarithmic 12:14:32 potion of experience is so rare we could make it win the game and it wouldn't have much of an effect 12:14:33 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:14:53 <|amethyst> bh: it means I would have many more wins than I do :) 12:15:00 !lg neil won 12:15:00 2. Neil the Faith Healer (L27 HOHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-10-04 20:54:19, with 1318561 points after 99008 turns and 8:11:47. 12:15:15 bh: people might be pissed if it was an automatic win, with no prompt 12:15:29 SamB: nice B) 12:15:59 Have there been any complaints on beneficial mutation? 12:16:29 even with a winrate as low as mine, I remember getting one such potion once per 2-3 wins, not counting Zigs 12:16:44 in Zigs it's plentiful, which is rubbing that in the face of players 12:16:45 "I quaff-IDed this potion of XP, and the stupid %@!& made me win the game before I was finished!!!" 12:17:25 bh: I'd say the effect is way too negligible for a potion that rare 12:17:36 bh: my only complaint would be that it fails sometimes 12:17:52 <|amethyst> dpeg: oh, I recently did a double rune lock game, so rune lock is certainly feasible for bad players :) 12:17:52 i imagine the changes to the stat mutations make a pretty decent difference 12:17:52 due to having several muts already 12:18:02 ontoclasm: well, it's bound to fail SOMETIME 12:18:08 well, yeah 12:18:09 <|amethyst> dpeg: then I died to my own illusion because I was too dumb to haste 12:18:13 eventually you just can't have any more good muts 12:18:15 but it's still sort of a letdown 12:18:16 ontoclasm: ah. I don't know how I feel about making it evict a mmutation 12:18:34 I believe it can also fail if it repeatedly generates conflicting mutations. 12:18:37 presumably if that takes enough muts, though, it won't be too likely ... 12:18:41 i don't think there's a way to fix it, but that's the main thing that irritates me about it 12:19:03 since then it's a super-rare potion of nothing 12:19:11 kilobyte: I set the frequency to be a one-for-one replacement of gain stat, which are vastly more negligible 12:20:17 maybe it should ask if you feel lucky at that point? 12:20:26 <|amethyst> btw, why is mutation rarity handled in _accept_mutation rather than using random_choose_weighted? 12:21:09 ontoclasm: I can make it less `meh` by increasing the number of retries 12:21:32 <|amethyst> Because the limit of 100 tries in _get_random_mutation is kind of low when a large chunk of mutations will never be accepted 12:21:54 * ontoclasm shrugs 12:21:55 for 0.14 I was thinking of adding a "potion of tons of temporary good mutations" that would give you like 5-8 muts 12:22:03 <|amethyst> hm, maybe I missed something 12:22:47 mention of random_choose_weighted made me think of parameter packs which reminds me ... 12:23:03 C++11 changes ABI: does that affect us at all? 12:23:24 <|amethyst> huh? 12:23:36 <|amethyst> like the whole ABI? 12:23:42 no not the whole thing 12:23:55 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:23:57 what would it matter, aren't we building the whole kitchen sink ourselves? 12:24:06 -!- VolteccerJack_ is now known as VolteccerJack 12:24:11 but, are we using any C++ ABIs from potentially-external libraries? 12:24:27 <|amethyst> bh: not on the servers, and not by default for users who have the libraries locally 12:25:16 -!- Rebenga has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:19 for example, my main crawl clone doesn't even HAVE the submodules 12:25:25 bh: I'm afraid temporary mutations work only for bad ones, as quite a few of "good" would cause problems 12:25:45 SamB: not a single library we use exports C++ 12:26:03 ah, we're fine then 12:26:08 <|amethyst> other than libstdc++ of course 12:26:18 kilobyte: the non-armour-slot ones should be fine 12:26:29 |amethyst: libstdc++ is evidently supposed to be fine 12:27:11 <|amethyst> kilobyte: any thoughts on reverting the -O0 on mac change? 12:27:37 does anyone have an opinion on Fumes? If there are objections I'm cool with it not going into 0.13 12:27:45 <|amethyst> kilobyte: frogor wasn't able to reproduce that misbuild, and I highly suspect now that it was actually a failure to recompile something rather than a compiler bug per se 12:27:58 |amethyst: it seems they've done a decent job of keeping any of the exposed differences from making it into the .so itself 12:28:14 bh: it doesn't sound like it'd work very well to me, it's not something that's likely to actually have any effect when triggered randomly like teleportitis is 12:28:25 |amethyst: the only case it did matter was taking mp when spellcasting 12:28:45 MarvinPA: the main effect is reducing the chance that you'll get tormented when standing in a hallway 12:29:14 |amethyst: wait, did he use gcc 4.0 or 4.1? 12:29:23 I think it has an issue with being pointless early game, and then breaking late game 12:29:39 <|amethyst> kilobyte: 4.0 12:29:51 right, the mp bug happened in 4.1 12:29:56 <|amethyst> oh, hm 12:30:44 oh i'd misread the chances of it triggering, this looks like it happens... practically all the time? sounds really annoying to me 12:31:04 |amethyst: that is, it sounds like none of the symbols exported by the libstdc++ .so have changed ABI; some of them might easily be specific to C++11 or not ... 12:31:35 MarvinPA: I've seen a few games with it in webtiles. The most common reaction is "Why am I farting?" 12:31:49 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:32:02 oh, it also shields you from nasty clouds 12:32:09 <|amethyst> SamB: if only all library authors were so conscientious :) 12:32:18 seems like it could work better as a response to taking damage or something 12:32:29 * kilobyte remembers a related line from Shrek. 12:32:34 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: isn't that kind of similar to foul stench? 12:32:45 yeah 12:32:50 <|amethyst> hm 12:32:55 although that's for damage purposes and this would be for los-blocking purposes i suppose 12:32:59 maybe it could trigger on getting hit 12:33:02 i'm not convinced it's a great concept in general 12:33:09 * bh just implements what the devwiki says is an implementable 12:33:34 <|amethyst> oh, right, miasma is transparent 12:33:36 how about only on ranged attacks? 12:33:46 some of that stuff is ancient :P 12:33:48 since it wouldn't do anything for melee ones 12:33:57 bh: ie, what one random editor wrote 12:34:42 and yeah, i don't think many pages are actually organised with dev-approved sections, unless they have comments attached 12:34:46 alright, let's pull it from 0.13 and decide later if its workable 12:35:09 from "accepted", only hydrophobic sounds good to me, perhaps also some changes to blurry vision 12:35:40 ah i see yeah, it is sorted 12:36:09 <|amethyst> bh: setting rarity to zero? 12:37:06 <|amethyst> am I misreading, or does _get_random_mutation make later mutations more likely? 12:37:10 the latter is somehow identical to nearsightness which is in "rejected" :p 12:37:21 <|amethyst> later in mut_data that is 12:37:22 -!- dleted has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:55 another good "rejected" one is inaccuracy 12:38:21 |amethyst: sounds like the easiest way. You'll be able to get it in wizmode, but so what? 12:38:23 no one ever wears the amulet outside some short-lived D:1 games 12:38:24 <|amethyst> Because it picks a spot on the weighted list, skips everything up to that spot, then scans from that point checking _accept_mutation (which might itself throw things out due to low rarity) 12:38:49 <|amethyst> bh: Yeah, also no need to deal with save compat 12:40:08 hmm. I wonder if we should categorize mutations with a goodness/badness score 12:40:21 That way, if Xom really hates your guts he can give you a severe mutation 12:40:38 <|amethyst> MUT_REALLY_BAD 12:40:41 <|amethyst> MUT_"GOOD" 12:40:51 <|amethyst> MUT_WHAT_IS_THIS_I_DONT_EVEN 12:40:52 MUT_XOM 12:40:54 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:41:06 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 12:41:13 bh: at least -1/0/+1, so we don't call most stuff "good" 12:41:14 <|amethyst> s/MUT/MT/g 12:42:03 <|amethyst> kilobyte: in hunters_booth, should the runed door maybe just be a door with a veto? 12:42:30 <|amethyst> kilobyte: or even a wall 12:43:42 it was originally a wall, iirc? 12:44:35 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:44:48 <|amethyst> geekosaur: secret door 12:44:56 (is there some way to get ssh to cache my passphrase? I'm sick of typing it in every time I want to interact with gitorious) 12:45:05 ssh-agent 12:45:16 and ssh-add 12:45:30 <|amethyst> if you're using Gnome etc you may already have an agent running 12:45:36 03bh02 07* 0.13-a0-3067-g38d8060: Disable Fumes 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=38d80603b0c5 12:45:38 <|amethyst> try ssh-add 12:45:42 thanks. xmonad, so I'm bare bones 12:45:59 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:27 you can run an ssh-agent and manually add it to existing shells; dependong on how you start your session there are ways to hook ssh-agent into it 12:46:29 <|amethyst> bh: You probably want your agent to start in your xsession scripts before running the WM etc 12:47:03 * geekosaur suddenly on familiar ground :) 12:47:04 <|amethyst> but, yeah, as geekosaur says you can manually add the environment variables to other shells (SSH_AGENT_PID and SSH_AUTH_SOCK) 12:48:09 |amethyst: one of the things that changed is the representation for std::string, so it's not too practical for all libraries to be so conscientious 12:48:23 <|amethyst> bh: Debian or related by any chance? /etc/X11/Xsession.options has a setting for that 12:50:02 <|amethyst> SamB: ugh, sounds like maybe libstdc++ *should* have bumped the ABI version then 12:50:13 ubuntu, thanks |amethyst 12:50:58 hrmph. use-ssh-agent is in there 12:51:30 so check if you already have $SSH_AUTH_SOCK in your environment 12:52:29 <|amethyst> (also it could be that your specific session diregards that or is buggy; ISTR having to mess around with things under /etc/X11 to get my gnome-session + sawfish session working properly 12:52:34 <|amethyst> ) 12:53:51 -!- roushguy has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:33 (whatever happened to writing your own script for this stuff?) 12:55:19 SamB: there's a strange and terrible class of people with no interest in system administration 12:55:44 why use a hatchet when a chainsaw will do? 12:55:53 <|amethyst> !tell dpeg http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/toxicity 12:55:55 |amethyst: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 12:56:54 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:49 -!- gammafunk_ has quit [Quit: gammafunk_] 13:02:10 SamB: hooking your own scripts into freedesktop.org display managers is much more painful than one could wish 13:02:26 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:02:59 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:03:08 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 13:03:34 they don't allow running some ~/. script? 13:03:47 not easily 13:04:18 sessions are defined by *.desktop files (which are not scripts) under /usr/share/xsessions or similar and are a PITA to work with 13:05:55 you get an Exec= line ... which must reference an *application* *.desktop file (usually somewhere under /usr/share/applications) which must have an appropriate Exec= line of its own and may or may not support shell metas in the Exec= line 13:06:07 so wrapper scripts are the order of the day 13:07:05 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 13:07:38 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:07:47 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 13:08:45 so nobody wrote a couple of those to start the old-style script, whatever that was called again ... 13:09:09 some distros have it, under different names, some don't 13:09:42 if you're lucky you have a legacy or classic session. and just to confuse things, some distros use "classic" to mean gnome2 instead of .xsession 13:09:47 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:32 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:06 so I guess you just need to write the pair of .desktop files around /etc/X11/Xsession ? 13:14:31 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:15:36 if you're lucky, yes 13:15:51 what, some distros strip that script or something? 13:17:45 I would not be at all surprised if you only get that if you install xdm or something on many distributions. increasingly they strip a lot of "legacy" stuff 13:18:04 ubuntu doesn't install xterm any more by default 13:18:08 hmm actually it looks like the second .desktop file is optional (or the xsession one from wmaker-common is broken) 13:18:56 it depends on the implementation. we document where ubuntu's display manager stuff switched from not using it to requiring it in the xmonad wiki, for example 13:18:59 not installing xterm by default is different ... 13:19:33 xterm being just an app, after all 13:20:15 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:40 anyway I have /usr/share/xsessions/wmaker-common.desktop with Exec=/usr/bin/wmaker 13:23:41 -!- petete_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:52 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:26:18 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:28:13 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:29:09 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~aimed_at_feet 13:29:10 42. [2013-08-21 04:51:16] tatara the Conqueror (L25 MiBe) ASSERT(!aimed at feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 666 failed on turn 80850. (Abyss:1) 13:29:15 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~aimed_at_feet -log 13:29:15 42. tatara, XL25 MiBe, T:80850 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/tatara/crash-tatara-20130821-045116.txt 13:29:32 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~aimed_at_feet -2 -log 13:29:33 41. pubby, XL10 TrCK, T:8837 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/pubby/crash-pubby-20130716-191110.txt 13:29:54 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~aimed_at_feet -3 -log 13:29:55 40. MDvedh, XL24 MiBe, T:55276 (milestone): http://rl.heh.fi/morgue/MDvedh/crash-MDvedh-20130626-222851.txt 13:30:06 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:48 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:54 sorry for flaky connection 13:35:55 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:35:59 !messages 13:36:00 (1/1) |amethyst said (40m 6s ago): http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/toxicity 13:36:12 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:36:33 <|amethyst> dpeg: that's mostly about PvP toxicity, but still relevant 13:37:09 -!- Taraiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:41:42 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:36 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:30 |amethyst: very nice, many thanks 13:43:59 * dpeg has a tendency to read the insults, and become a high priest of Trog 13:44:41 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 13:45:01 <|amethyst> dpeg: the many other episodes of the show are pretty nice, too 13:45:33 yes, will check them later today... amazing what effort some people spend :) 13:46:18 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:06 -!- lunarharp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:07:23 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:08:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:12:49 what is it with this kekela guy? 14:13:34 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:02 -!- maahes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:20 -!- petete_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:17:55 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 14:23:18 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:25:10 hmm.. someone in GDD suggested adding professional kobolds to Swamp. I actually like this idea 14:25:15 -!- ParallaxScroll has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:25:30 %s/someone/pubby 14:26:14 <|amethyst> dpeg: that's the same person as bataille 14:26:49 <|amethyst> err, battaile 14:29:35 |amethyst: ah, I didn't know 14:29:44 |amethyst: he does come across like an ass 14:30:09 -!- phosphorescence has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:54 <|amethyst> dpeg: I'm not that familiar with somethingawful, but isn't that the fashion there? 14:31:19 -!- jarpiain has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:29 |amethyst: probably 14:32:53 I don't think it is healthy if one develop hatred towards the player base. 14:33:12 Trolling is a sign of success :-\ 14:33:50 <|amethyst> he's not usually quite as much of an ass on Tavern, with the exception of the recent thread; I can't tell how much he's being serious and how much he's being passive-aggressive, but using the word "whining" in the first post doesn't bode well 14:34:31 <|amethyst> dpeg: focus the hatred on those who deserve it rather than the whole player base :) 14:36:28 |amethyst: yes, of course. 14:36:43 Would anyone mind me coming up with a list of player names that get special treatment on the servers? 14:37:10 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:37:14 <|amethyst> you mean the ones that aren't announced in IRC? 14:37:51 no, I want special randart names: like "distressingly furry", only addressed at obnoxious players. It is childish, but I'd like it. 14:38:12 'eh. It would be a badge of honor 14:38:27 I considered adding an option to introduce random crashes if your name matches a name in a file 14:38:29 <|amethyst> yeah, that would only encourage them 14:38:59 bh: oh, that is nice 14:39:00 hell, we could just discuss hellbanning people and then if their game ever lags out, they'll attribute it to a conspiracy that doesn't exist. 14:39:50 I wouldn't mind kicking their games. 14:39:54 <|amethyst> really the appropriate solution is to ban, moderate, or otherwise restrict them in Tavern and on the IRC channels 14:40:45 <|amethyst> IMO doing stuff to their server accounts should be reserved for people who cause problems on the servers themselves 14:41:01 <|amethyst> e.g. the ones with horribly offensive usernames 14:41:05 probably server moderation should be left to the server providers, yeah 14:41:26 <|amethyst> or harrassing people through webtiles chat (don't know if that happens, haven't heard any complaints about it) 14:41:27 MarvinPA: sure, I'm suggesting that we give admins an easy way to moderate 14:41:33 well nobody has bothered to moderate anything in years 14:41:49 It would probably be fun to instrument the RNG to make people lose. 14:41:51 so complaining about how poisonous we are is not helping 14:42:09 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:33 -!- jarpiain is now known as Guest34698 14:43:10 and if anything exists that punishes me on the servers for being angry about certain developments, do you really think that helps the environment 14:43:41 -!- enygmata_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:43 ChrisOelmueller: we are not talking about "this sucks, why did they do this" 14:44:03 i'm also poisonous in other ways than that specific one 14:44:10 but the approach is wrong in any case, as |amethyst said 14:45:48 I don't care about the reasons for enforcement, but server admins should have the power to get rid of players who they don't want. Be that an overt ban, or something nastier. 14:46:20 i'm not sure what server admins have to do with this at all 14:46:28 yes, I don't understand why we should be subject to the humiliations like helpless chickens 14:46:39 presumably they can already ban ips if there's abuse on servers, but that doesn't appear to be a problem 14:46:42 -!- enygmata has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:46:52 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: I've banned a total of one IP ever 14:46:59 dpeg: 'eh. 14:47:04 |amethyst: offensive name or load abuse? 14:47:30 <|amethyst> !lg * name~~isgay 14:47:30 No games for * (name~~isgay). 14:47:35 <|amethyst> !lm * name~~isgay 14:47:36 No milestones for * (name~~isgay). 14:47:40 rax evicted someone from ##crawl because he kept going on about how zigs are "run by a bunch of Jews" 14:47:47 and if there's abuse in irc or on the tavern then people can and should be banned from there 14:48:09 <|amethyst> bh: someone registered several accounts with names like 'ophanimisgay' (and directed at other players too) 14:48:24 -!- frogor_home has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:24 -!- frogor_home is now known as frogor 14:48:26 -!- frogor has quit [Changing host] 14:48:26 -!- frogor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:27 irc is somewhat lacking in ops but usually somebody is available when necessary for cases like that, yes 14:48:41 ignoring the fact that Ziggurats were Sumerian, rather than Jewish in origin... 14:48:59 not that many of our players have a clue :) 14:50:19 my personal philosophy is that people with offensive usernames should just not show up in listings anywhere, they are playing into a void 14:50:21 fighting trolls is like kicking a hornet nest 14:50:23 but it's hard to implement that technically 14:50:51 rax: what about a couple of regex's and a blacklist? 14:50:57 rax: Hi! I am really bitter at the moment. 14:51:09 imo don't be 14:51:22 bh: Tht works for IRC and we do it, but it doesn't necessarily work for the website or dgamelaunch without code changes 14:51:38 <|amethyst> rax: probably the banned words list could be extended to scoring pretty easily; and probably in Sequell too 14:51:44 (which we should do probably but it hadn't been enough of a problem in the past) 14:51:49 dpeg: I'm sorry to hear that! 14:51:55 <|amethyst> in the watch list I'm not sure 14:52:09 I'm sure it could be done in the watch list but maybe not easily 14:52:16 rax: they drove away a really good developer... which gets much more to me than when they insulted e 14:52:19 *me 14:52:20 not happy about filtering actual game results from sequell 14:52:22 -!- darktwinge has joined ##crawl-dev 14:52:32 just changing their name to something else could work 14:52:44 Wow, I missed all this. :/ I should read more scrollback 14:52:52 I didn't realize this had driven a developer away 14:52:52 |amethyst: ahoy 14:52:53 frogor: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:53:00 !messages 14:53:00 (1/1) |amethyst said (1d 5h 21m 22s ago): "licence" isn't misspelled; we use Australian English :) 14:53:08 Hah, cute. 14:53:26 (considering it's spelled the English way everywhere inside said file ...) 14:54:37 well even if it did, this whole issue certainly is not all there is to the story 14:54:38 does anyone have a guide to Australian v. British spelling? 14:55:02 ah I don't see the context in scrollback, it looks like this is taking place in other forums as well? 14:55:07 rax: yes 14:55:09 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:55:26 let's just add that crawl development itself has been pretty poisonous recently as well, and keep it at that 14:55:53 ChrisOelmueller: no. You're going to give us specific complaints. 14:56:11 sorry, i won't 14:56:24 Then your feedback is completely useless. 14:56:55 if that's what you decide to make of it, yes. it's fine 14:57:05 Zaba: Get a chance to try the builds on PPC? 14:58:39 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:50 -!- darktwinge has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:59:50 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:59:54 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 15:00:42 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 15:02:37 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:49 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:04:26 -!- frogor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:03 I don't think I'd ever say it, but I can warm up to asking for money, at least for online play. 15:09:27 dpeg: as a trollgate? 15:09:30 yes 15:09:58 we can always say it's for paying the servers, but I'd think that the trolls would start looking for another playground 15:10:07 sa seems like a good counterexample to that surely 15:10:28 It's great that we have generous server admins, but I'd rather we not rely on generosity indefinitely 15:10:33 and again that seems like something that'd only be appropriate as a decision by server providers 15:10:37 MarvinPA: I am at a loss. 15:12:41 i don't know, i don't really think there's much we can reasonably do about hostility and unpleasantness in other forums and communities 15:13:02 <|amethyst> bh: We rely on generosity to get the code written, and that's much more of an investment than a hundred dollars or so a month 15:13:41 |amethyst: thanks, by the way 15:14:19 people on the internet are jerks if you allow it, and from what i know as outsider, SA appears to be very permissive wrt/that 15:15:46 for instance i'm still not sure how me or Bloax were not banned from this channel yet 15:16:05 but i'll take it and continue insulting things i find stupid 15:16:10 yes i would suggest doing both of those things, i am pretty sure ChrisOelmueller would actively appreciate it 15:17:03 I'm mostly sarcastic but it's not like I'm going to be a jerk to someone just because. 15:21:13 -!- jameyd has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:27:11 well... I have a hellban patch written 15:27:26 bh: <3 15:27:36 it relies on a server admin manually hacking a save 15:28:01 I'm ambivalent about committing it. 15:28:54 yes, I can imagine :) 15:29:30 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 15:31:44 I'd actually see whether there exists a server admin who wants such a patch before committing anything of the sort 15:31:45 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:31 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: Gute Nacht] 15:33:32 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 15:36:41 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41:14 -!- ChrisOelmueller was kicked from ##crawl-dev by MarvinPA [ChrisOelmueller] 15:41:45 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 15:42:48 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:44:07 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:46:13 I'm not comfortbale taking money for the server personally, it opens me up to a bunch of tax complexities and also I think it's really valuable that it's free 15:46:20 having pay servers doesn't seem automatically wrong though 15:46:34 and paid servers for tournaments that went to fund prizes would be awesome 15:47:52 it might be nice to have a legal entity that could accept cash and pay for servers, but that's a big can of worms 15:48:03 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:10 reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeks of effort 15:49:11 back in college I helped set up a 501c3, but I really wouldn't want to do it again 15:49:54 I mean if it were something everyone really wanted we could do it 15:49:57 it's not impossible 15:49:58 The problem about having paid/unpaid servers is that it further splits things into "Can/Willing to pay" and "Can't/Unwilling to pay" categories. 15:50:20 but it's also complicated given that we have servers in different countries 15:50:31 well, as MarvinPA points out, the cost doesn't even sort the wheat from the chaff 15:51:38 <|amethyst> Also, if you think are people are mean now, wait until they are paying for it and therefore have an even greater sense of entitlement 15:52:03 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:09 banning someone eevery time they are a jerk and charging them $10 to be a jerk again sort of works as a model? But I'm uncomfortable increasing the barriers to entry on game that often has a high barrier for new players already 15:52:27 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:44 -!- Archison has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:52:46 rax: I'd always have thought that roguelikes are too complicated to cuase these problems... I'll blame tiles for the mess :) 15:53:09 Did you ever read RGRN? It was a cesspit. :P 15:53:19 of course I did, even posted there 15:53:30 -!- Slizyboy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53:32 * Grunt remembers making a few rgrn posts back in the day. 15:53:37 I guess NetHack also has tiles. Perhaps tiles are the root of all evil? 15:53:39 Angband does many things right 15:53:39 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:53:49 pi31415: how so? 15:53:53 I really like that you can just press Enter to get a nested menu with all of the commands 15:56:02 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:56:20 I'm fine for crawl to be free to play (I don't think anything other than this would be a good idea), but I'd like some mechanism by which I could support it 15:56:22 other than shoddy patches. 15:56:32 books! 15:56:38 Getting Crawl to the bookstores :) 15:56:39 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 15:57:04 a better android port 15:57:05 dpeg: I really doubt it will ever appear on a commercial bookshelf. 15:57:19 on my phone, it is nearly impossible to move diagonally 15:57:24 bh: I'd be insulted if it did! 15:58:00 Bake cookies for your favorite developers? Donate to charity on behalf of DCSS? 15:58:38 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:42 Is there a Kobold Benevolent League I can contribute to? :) 15:58:46 listening to horrible metal for praising certain crawl developer 15:59:17 (todo: kobold annihilators, kobold sorcerers, kobold death mages) 15:59:46 <|amethyst> pi31415: frogbotherer kind of disappeared on us 15:59:57 There was talk about kobolds in Swamp... but then those should have a style of killing different from the arcane approahch of the elves 16:00:08 ...and ideally with some (at least thematic) connect to swamps 16:00:25 kobold metallurgists 16:00:34 |amethyst: who is frogbotherer? 16:00:49 pi31415: English dev. haven't seen him in ages 16:00:50 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:00:52 I've generally been unimpressed by the results of monster design based around "player species + player role/title" 16:00:53 !seen frogbotherer 16:00:54 I last saw frogbotherer at Sun Jan 27 16:57:18 2013 UTC (33w 4h 3m 36s ago) quitting with message Remote host closed the connection. 16:01:15 He wrote the android port so he could play DCSS on the London underground 16:01:19 I'm not good at monster design myself but the stuff designed from scratch seems to play much better 16:01:33 it'd probably work better on a device with a keypad 16:01:40 so I'd vote against doing that with kobolds 16:01:51 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:04 elliptic, MarvinPA: what would you think of popping/warding summons when a summoner dies? 16:02:42 pi31415: frogbotherer was the person responsible for our current Android port. 16:02:51 Okay guys, there will be downtine on lantea for 6 hours on the 17th of september 2300 (CEST) to 18th 0500 16:02:56 I have DCSS running on DirectFB with SDL2 and an old version of Mesa, but it freezes at the splash screen 16:03:07 how do I announce this? 16:03:15 TZer0: irc topic? 16:03:24 bh: okay. 16:03:25 will take a stab at stepping through it in gdb 16:03:27 I'll also add it. 16:03:28 1learn edit is_clan_down 16:03:30 <|amethyst> shouldn't be just IRC though 16:03:40 hold on, I'll add it to the server 16:03:42 <|amethyst> TZer0: also the webtiles banner and dgamelaunch menu 16:03:43 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:56 Just wrote a really long email to draco. I hope he'll come back. 16:04:52 bh: I think that'd be good. Could also work slightly differently for different summoners. 16:05:03 <|amethyst> TZer0: webtiles banner is in /crawl-master/webserver/templates/banner.html (you might have to touch client.html to get the server to reload it) 16:05:14 But making the kill (of the summoning monster) more attractive is definitely a good idea. 16:05:47 bh: not sure, removing summons after the death of the summoner could be interesting but it would also be quite a large nerf to certain monsters 16:05:55 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:06:01 |amethyst: quick question, which dgamelaunch-file shoul;d I edit? 16:06:08 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:06:20 main_anon? 16:06:22 It could at least heavily cut into their duration. 16:06:23 <|amethyst> TZer0: dgl menus are in the dgamelaunch-config dir under chroot/data/menus/ (then you need to dgl publish them) 16:06:41 elliptic, personally I think it'd be more interesting than the status quo, and if there are monsters that are really that strongly dependent on summoning perhaps they need to be looked at anyway. 16:06:41 <|amethyst> TZer0: chroot/data/menus/main*.txt at least 16:06:53 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:02 <|amethyst> TZer0: maybe also the menus for individual game modes if you want 16:08:05 Grunt: personally I'd like to remove *all* summons and allies, both player and monster... so you can see that I don't like monsters that are dependent on summoning either :P 16:08:27 <|amethyst> TZer0: shouldn't have to touch the config proper 16:08:43 elliptic: we have many types of allies... do you want to get rid of all of them? 16:08:49 Grunt: I was thinking specifically of liches, btw 16:08:54 dpeg: that's what I said 16:09:34 elliptic: including Trog's brothers, Fedhas' oklobs etc.? 16:09:48 (I don't expect this to happen because a lot of people like allies... but I feel that they are intrinsically bad gameplay) 16:09:52 dpeg: yes 16:09:55 wow 16:10:40 huh, the crawl Makefile strips the binary unconditionally on install, even if i run "make debug install" 16:10:42 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:10:47 or rather "make debug-lite install" 16:11:24 Webtiles server restarted. 16:11:30 elliptic: I'd think that the Vaults convokers and Trog's brothers are examples of good design. 16:11:35 ohgodno 16:11:37 Grunt: anyway I agree that it could be an interesting change, and I'm fine with trying it out in trunk... just thinking ahead a bit about balance 16:11:37 -_- 16:11:44 dpeg: convokers aren't summoners 16:11:58 there is something wrong with the python server 16:12:00 again 16:12:36 <|amethyst> you didn't need to restart it 16:12:37 -!- duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:40 <|amethyst> but what's happening? 16:12:54 Hellbanning by brendan 16:13:11 Webtiles server started. 16:13:46 i really don't think that's something that should be on mantis even 16:14:25 putting that there will just make lots of paranoid players worry about it whenever they have a lag spike 16:14:28 Webtiles server started. 16:14:36 <|amethyst> And since cszo is the most laggy 16:14:53 so can someone remove that please? 16:14:53 |amethyst: seriously, we need to look into a thing 16:14:56 ok. I can nuke it 16:15:45 you should have posted that from a hellbanned account so normal users couldn't see it 16:15:54 |amethyst: I must comment out line 117 and 118 in /home/crawl/DGL/crawl-master/webserver/server.py for my server to start. 16:16:05 <|amethyst> So people see that show up in ##crawl and then it's no longer visible? I'm sure that will completely ease the concerns of the paranoid 16:16:08 I'll burn this patch. 16:16:09 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:16:21 bh: cast it into hellfire! 16:16:26 |amethyst: I did a reload. 16:16:37 <|amethyst> TZer0: the http_connection_timeout thing? 16:16:40 yeah. 16:16:53 <|amethyst> TZer0: yeah, don't enable that option unless you have a patched tornado 16:17:10 but then I have to go into that file.. and uncomment it whenever I restart 16:17:12 <|amethyst> http://dobrazupa.org/patches/tornado-timeout.patch is the patch 16:17:46 how do I easily apply this_ 16:17:48 ? 16:18:09 <|amethyst> TZer0: I mean don't set http_connection_timeout in the config 16:18:09 also.. back in a bit, just pm it. 16:18:14 does `git apply` not work? 16:18:34 <|amethyst> bh: this is something he'd have to undo and redo on each update 16:18:41 yuck 16:18:53 <|amethyst> bh: I mean, the way he did it 16:20:32 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 Two options: 1. Get a copy of python-tornado, apply edlothiol's patch http://dobrazupa.org/patches/tornado-timeout.patch, and put the location of that copy in PYTHONPATH before launching webtiles 16:20:33 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 16:21:27 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 (the init script does that already, using /home/crawl-dev/tornado, so if you put it there you wouldn't need to change anything) 16:21:28 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 16:21:38 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 16:21:47 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 2. set http_connection_timeout = None in config.py 16:21:48 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 16:22:04 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 (don't do both, that would be silly) 16:22:05 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 16:27:10 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:50 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:47 -!- shmup has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:32:02 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:32:14 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 16:32:17 I went for option 2 as of now 16:32:17 TZer0: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:35:04 -!- Gotham has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:13 -!- nooodl has left ##crawl-dev 16:36:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:37 -!- QQQ is now known as Quashie 16:44:38 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:17 So why did ??advice have to get die? 16:46:25 -get 16:46:44 because the learndb is full of bad awful entries and it helps to cleanse them out 16:47:06 (also it has nothing to do with dev) 16:47:16 learndb-dev 16:52:02 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:52:58 -!- enygmata_ is now known as enygmata 16:54:29 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:28 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:14 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:19 -!- UnknownUser has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:21:12 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:21:47 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 17:25:21 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Quit: The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese] 17:25:45 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:28:54 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:35:45 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:42:50 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:51 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 17:45:33 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:52:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3068-g051f3a5: Prompt for snaking stick weapons. 10(49 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=051f3a5c15f4 17:52:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3069-g8567ab0: Don't spend time casting S2S on an unsnakable or no weapon. 10(45 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8567ab080503 17:52:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3070-g24746d4: Don't let moths of wraths operate through walls (#7555) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=24746d445f26 17:55:45 * SamB wonders how #7555 came to be ... 17:57:48 <|amethyst> seems like it would have been around forever 17:58:36 -!- myrmidette has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:03 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:52 <3 "snake an unstackable stick" 18:00:14 and I also wonder why it wasn't noticed back before the massive s/glass/grate/ 18:01:55 <|amethyst> SamB: it wasn't that it was using the wrong LOS 18:01:59 <|amethyst> SamB: it wasn't using LOS at all 18:02:53 <|amethyst> %git adb21570 18:02:54 07by02 * 0.6.0-a1-320-gadb2157: Convert another 45 monster loops to monster_iterator. 10(3 years, 10 months ago, 16 files, 388+ 516-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=adb21570e7da 18:02:59 I mean, why didn't anyone notice that the moth vault(s) still worked with glass? 18:03:00 <|amethyst> that's what made it use a circle_def, but 18:03:08 <|amethyst> SamB: It probably didn't 18:03:15 <|amethyst> SamB: because the moth can't target *you* 18:03:39 yes? 18:03:48 well, the moth vaults worked with glass at some point 18:04:05 I think we all assumed that this was intentional though because glass was stupid at the time and most things worked through glass 18:04:22 and didn't know that the thing in #7555 was true 18:04:36 <|amethyst> Well 18:04:48 so nobody actually checked that those vaults actually needed grates 18:04:51 SamB: ? 18:04:55 <|amethyst> SamB: what I mean is, a monster won't use its special ability unless near_foe() 18:05:03 |amethyst: oh? 18:05:05 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:12 <|amethyst> SamB: see the top of mon_special_ability 18:05:18 so it needed the grate only so it would target? 18:05:41 <|amethyst> SamB: there are three exceptions: slime creatures, lost souls, and TR crawlies 18:05:59 <|amethyst> SamB: it needed the grate so it would think its foe (you) was nearby 18:06:18 yeah, that's what I meant to say 18:07:12 that would certainly explain why the bug wasn't noticed back then 18:07:41 <|amethyst> yeah, you need to be staring down a split wall like in wahaha's game 18:07:56 <|amethyst> and not too wide a wall, since there was the radius-3 check for moth incitement 18:08:04 wahaha should know better than to give a negative index for !l[mg] in a bug report 18:08:33 <|amethyst> %git ea57a172 18:08:33 07kilobyte02 * 0.10-a0-2549-gea57a17: Apply the smite restrictions to monsters as well. 10(1 year, 9 months ago, 4 files, 3+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ea57a172d498 18:08:53 Wasn't planning on playing HuTm any time soon or ever 18:09:08 hmm, well, okay then ;-) 18:09:17 <|amethyst> That's the one that made near_foe care about glass 18:12:42 * SamB randomly wishes you could add custom chunk header recognition stuff without touching .git 18:13:19 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:23 (even though that's mostly only relevant for .des files) 18:16:38 <|amethyst> SamB: what's wrong with touching .git ? 18:17:33 |amethyst: well, that means that e.g. gitweb will virtually never be set up to use them 18:17:49 <|amethyst> oh 18:17:50 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 18:17:52 <|amethyst> thanks :) 18:18:08 also updating the patterns is a bit tricky 18:20:22 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:20:35 hmm 18:20:48 not sure about this bit: 18:20:49 xfuncname = ".*\\{\\{.*" 18:21:27 <|amethyst> yeah, usually that's just "{{" 18:23:09 <|amethyst> hm 18:23:23 <|amethyst> s-z.org's git is old enough that it doesn't support xfuncname 18:23:27 not sure it's even matching 18:23:32 how old is that? 18:23:42 <|amethyst> git version 1.7.8.2 18:24:05 didn't think it was that recent of a feature 18:24:35 <|amethyst> oh wait 18:24:39 <|amethyst> git version 1.7.4.1 18:26:57 <|amethyst> hm, no, setting $GIT in gitweb_config.perl to point to the 1.7.8.2 binary doesn't seem to work either 18:27:11 xfuncname predates that for sure 18:28:06 yeah, it's from v1.6.0.3 18:28:23 <|amethyst> then maybe gitweb ignores it? 18:28:40 dunno 18:29:44 <|amethyst> oh 18:29:49 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Quit: ~Internet()] 18:29:51 <|amethyst> caching I guess 18:29:57 <|amethyst> it does seem to work after all 18:32:04 <|amethyst> hm 18:32:06 <|amethyst> or it doesn't 18:32:52 <|amethyst> yeah, what I though worked was just coincidence 18:32:56 <|amethyst> oh well 18:39:17 |amethyst: it works at the command line? 18:40:26 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:42:32 !seen mumra 18:42:33 I last saw mumra at Thu Sep 12 14:48:48 2013 UTC (3d 8h 53m 45s ago) quitting with message 'Remote host closed the connection'. 18:42:46 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:43:01 Potion of Experience Menu Enhanced|Normal toggle doesn't function by raskol 18:48:27 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:57:55 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58:05 -!- tkappleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:00:37 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:38 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:15 -!- maahes has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:08:27 -!- read_ is now known as mineral 19:09:21 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 19:11:15 -!- ParallaxScroll has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:11:26 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:28 -!- maahes_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:31 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:18 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:22:04 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:24:54 -!- slacko5791 is now known as ren-cs 19:25:01 -!- maahes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:40 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 19:26:22 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:29:01 -!- cosmos has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:29:53 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:43 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:46 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:50 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:40:22 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:29 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 19:53:39 -!- Taraiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:53:45 -!- ren-cs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:57:39 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:02:02 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:03:15 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:04:27 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:04:28 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:04:45 -!- lessens has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:24 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:47 -!- enygmata has quit [Quit: zzz] 20:19:48 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 20:21:18 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:31:41 -!- waspmonolith has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:37:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:00 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:43:00 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:45:54 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:49:28 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:53:07 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:20 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 20:53:49 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Quit: Relax, its only ONES and ZEROS!] 20:55:40 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:05:15 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:20 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 21:08:20 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:11:16 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13:54 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:14:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:16 -!- Soner has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:39 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:19:14 -!- heteroy has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:26:00 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:24 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 21:27:24 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 21:45:55 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3070-g24746d4 21:47:53 <|amethyst> SamB: oh, it does not seem to work at the command line. Maybe it's because it's a bare repo 21:47:58 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 21:51:28 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:27 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:57:04 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.13-a0-3071-gd88de33: Darken sand tiles 10(2 minutes ago, 8 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d88de33e94f0 21:57:34 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 22:04:10 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:09 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3072-gac325ec: Fix formatting. 10(78 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ac325eca50fc 22:08:23 |amethyst: no no no. 22:08:27 |amethyst: "add formatting fixes"! 22:09:03 <|amethyst> Grunt: That commit subject has been retired like a sportsball jersey 22:09:32 "Formatify." 22:09:34 <|amethyst> It wouldn't be right for someone who is not dolorous to use it :) 22:11:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3073-ga7cf4ae: Grammatify. 10(20 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a7cf4aec0e3b 22:11:36 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: :) 22:12:05 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:13:26 <|amethyst> BTW, should we try to be more consistent about "feel like" and "feel as though"? 22:14:02 <|amethyst> "feel like" + content clause, that is, not + noun phrase 22:14:38 <|amethyst> other instances are "You feel like your blood is boiling!" and "You feel like you have heartburn." 22:15:12 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:15:12 <|amethyst> with four instances of "feel as though" 22:15:24 I talk like that all the time. Not sure if that's any indication though ... 22:16:11 At times I talk as though I were a pedant 22:16:18 <|amethyst> both are perfectly fine English, but "as though" is a somewhat more formal register 22:16:50 <|amethyst> I'm not complaining about either, just the inconsistency (and not really *complaining* about that per se) 22:17:32 |amethyst: if you stop and think about it, the "like" wording doesn't always make sense. "It sounds like a bug in the code." so, the code is making cricket noises? 22:20:09 pi31415: actually it was in the hardware 22:20:35 and I think it was a moth 22:20:47 also I think they didn't have software in those days 22:22:09 SamB: and they had electricians constantly running around replacing tubes to keep the thing running at all 22:22:18 <|amethyst> pi31415: Probably that is best read as "sounds (like|as though) there is a bug in the code" 22:23:51 <|amethyst> CGEL doesn't seem to mention this in the section on "like" 22:24:09 walk as though you were an Egyptian 22:24:29 walk after the manner of an egyptian 22:25:42 <|amethyst> pi31415: "walk like an Egyptian" is straightforward, though, and doesn't have the issue you pointed out with "sounds like X" 22:26:29 <|amethyst> "walk like an Egyptian" is Chapter 13 §5.6.1(c) Non-predicative adjunct 22:28:16 <|amethyst> This is my leisure reading these days 22:29:02 <|amethyst> well, I haven't made it to chapter 13 yet, but 22:29:15 amethyst walks around harlem with a copy of strunk & white tucked in the back of his jeans 22:29:39 <|amethyst> Strunk and White can die in a prescriptivist fire :P 22:29:43 -!- marcmagus has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:29:48 haha 22:30:15 http://xkcd.com/923/ 22:34:29 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:35:21 -!- cosmonaut has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:37:00 * pi31415 has a physical and electronic copy of Strunk and White, not that it does any good 22:44:53 -!- cismos has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:45:00 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:47:45 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:48:26 ontoclasm: didn't the slashfic authors already know this? 22:48:58 thoughts on Murray? 22:49:43 he seems not interesting now that all curse skulls can move 22:52:00 -!- hart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:12 speed 30 22:52:14 go 22:52:38 :[ 22:52:40 Murray [curls up into a ball and] starts rolling! Murray smashes into you! 22:53:43 * SamB more-or-less guffaws at http://xkcd.com/925/ 23:00:03 i'm pretty close to losing this HuAM from a lack of ammo 23:00:18 whoops thought this was the main crawl channel, sorry 23:01:07 -!- Fusha has quit [Quit: !] 23:02:49 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:17 -!- minced has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:11:39 well, got crawl running on directfb but everything has a greenish tint 23:13:27 * SamB really laughs at "almost definitely" in http://xkcd.com/938/ 23:13:39 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.12.2-37-gc4994d8 23:14:38 pi31415: is your framebuffer set to a strange format maybe? 23:15:46 hmm, you'd think Mesa would be able to tell ... 23:17:41 fbset says it is 800x600 24-bit 23:18:37 DirectFB switches to 800x600 LUT8, then 800x600 RGB24 23:18:50 -!- fungee has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:54 wouldn't expect any trouble there ... 23:25:24 pi31415: does input work at all? 23:26:37 SamB: yes, the game is playable, just green 23:27:09 ...green 23:27:21 it has other colors too, but mostly green 23:27:23 ... I don't suppose you can screenshot that? 23:27:32 yes, if only for posterity 23:27:32 yes, I will do that now 23:28:48 well I thought maybe we could figure out the problem by playing with the bits ... 23:29:26 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:30:34 SamB: i know nothing about this... "code" thing 23:30:54 but green i understand 23:30:58 http://terrorpin.net/~ben/crawl.png 23:32:08 ahyep, i do know this one 23:32:24 or it could be something fairly obvious 23:32:25 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:32:42 what color was magenta again? 23:32:42 somehow your composite/component channels are mixed up 23:32:58 what's magenta there should be blue 23:33:06 -!- Utis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:14 ontoclasm: how would that work 23:33:22 isn't magenta a blend of two primaries? 23:33:31 basically RGB is being interpreted as PRY or whatever the abbreviation for that is 23:33:40 composite is weird 23:33:42 oh 23:34:17 -!- duckroller has quit [Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)] 23:34:30 so how to figure out which component is confused? 23:34:56 I mean, which library is confused and is it pi's fault or not? 23:35:05 i doubt it's pi's fault 23:35:17 since presumably everything else on his/her computer looks right 23:35:25 or, well, our fault 23:35:47 it's probably nto really our fault either, but idk about that 23:35:50 (I mean is there any chance crawl is feeding it bad info ...) 23:36:14 pi31415: anyway does it work under X? 23:36:23 SamB: it works fine under X 23:36:33 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:46 SamB: this is the first opengl program i have tried to run on DirectFB 23:36:53 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:37:06 will it still build with SDL 1.2? 23:37:18 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:37:57 (it's fair to say "don't know") 23:38:09 i don't know but i could give it a shot 23:38:24 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:38:35 because I'm pretty sure we will still want that to work before we merge your stuff 23:38:59 yeah, i don't know what in the code could be causing it 23:40:29 pi31415: for all I know it's a bug in your kernel or in Mesa 23:42:21 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:36 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:44:18 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-3073-ga7cf4ae (34) 23:44:47 pi31415: do you know what color space is being used in... whatever thing you're doing this on 23:46:02 pi31415: also how did you take the screenshot? it seems to have absolutely no metadata 23:47:32 I guess crawl doesn't have a screenshot function 23:47:44 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:47:48 i usually just screenshot my desktop and crop it down, so 23:48:08 SamB: I used the Print Screen button, which dumps to .ppm in DirectFB apps 23:48:18 ah 23:48:43 then I used: pnmtopng dfb_0001.ppm >crawl.png 23:48:56 so, whatever happens *probably* happens before it gets to DirectFB 23:49:19 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:49:41 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:50:33 so ... *probably* SDL or Mesa is screwing something up? 23:51:26 I'm guessing Mesa since SDL does fine with X11 23:51:40 or SDL's DirectFB driver 23:52:57 yeah, I figure Mesa is probably doing it, but am unsure as to whether this is because SDL told it to do that or not 23:53:15 actually no 23:53:17 figured it out 23:53:25 the blue channel got copied onto the red one 23:53:30 oh? 23:53:30 other SDL 1.2 apps on DirectFB look fine 23:53:32 because ????? 23:53:50 or it could be all SDL ... 23:53:58 i just decomposed it and checked 23:54:28 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:54:38 still no idea -why- this would happen 23:55:17 so... who's going to cut the branch? 23:55:34 * ontoclasm hides the pruning shears behind his back 23:55:36 now that you mention it I can see that in sng output? 23:55:50 sng? 23:55:57 I guess I used a question mark because it's puzzling 23:56:08 i mean, i dunno what sng is 23:56:08 ontoclasm: converts PNG into a plaintext representation 23:56:11 oh 23:56:16 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:56:23 !rng a b c d e f g xom h i j k l m n o p 23:56:24 The RNG chooses: xom. 23:56:26 Stable (0.12) branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.12.2-37-gc4994d8 23:57:21 maybe something here wasn't well-tested in 24-bit? 23:58:58 pi31415: anyway, where's the code?