00:00:14 It just finished building, about to run. 00:00:29 <|amethyst> well, the changes were just to the build so hopefully that isn't an issue :) 00:00:40 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.2-36-gdb43a97 00:03:39 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:03:49 Never tried - is there a testing / cheat mode where I can just grant myself a potion of experience? 00:03:53 <|amethyst> frogor: also, console builds would be nice to have. And kilobyte is planning on releasing 0.12.3 soon, but is in part waiting to see about your builds 00:04:05 Ah, easy enough. 00:04:12 <|amethyst> frogor: &o!experience 00:04:23 Danke 00:05:47 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12.2-36-gdb43a97 (34) 00:05:51 Oh, and side interesting note 00:06:01 Speaking of over optimization 00:06:10 dungeon.cc: In function ‘coord_def dgn_find_nearby_stair(dungeon_feature_type, coord_def, bool)’: 00:06:10 dungeon.cc:5748: warning: control may reach end of non-void function ‘coord_def _get_hatch_dest(coord_def, bool)’ being inlined 00:06:46 Sounds like it's warning about hitting a function end without a return on a non-void? 00:08:43 I'll have to look where it's talking about. 00:09:38 So the line in question is: 00:09:39 coord_def pos(_get_hatch_dest(base_pos, stair_to_find == DNGN_TRAP_NATURAL)); 00:10:01 So coord_def initialization based on the return of _get_hatch_dest 00:10:03 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:18 * frogor checks _get_hatch_dest 00:10:27 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:11 <|amethyst> frogor: this is with -O0 ? 00:12:25 That was with the -O2 this was still doing. Did you want me to flip to -O1 ? 00:12:28 <|amethyst> hm 00:12:31 er -O0? 00:13:11 <|amethyst> maybe try -O1 00:13:19 pretty sure -O0 doesn't inline anything without the always_inline attribute? 00:13:29 <|amethyst> but that warning is confusing 00:13:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:50 <|amethyst> because, looking at _get_hatch_dest, it pretty clearly returns in both branches 00:13:56 Agree completely. 00:14:21 Unless it's because there's no return outside the if/else structure itself - somehow implying that neither branch would run .... o_O ? 00:14:22 I guess GCC did something to the IR which it later couldn't follow 00:15:21 <|amethyst> I was asking about -O0 because missing that kind of flow analysis is the kind of thing I'd expect from a low optimisation level 00:15:35 ah 00:18:28 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:20:22 Oh, and btw - no issues with potion of experience 00:20:48 <|amethyst> what about with your 64-bit build? 00:20:59 Checking. 00:22:22 Heh, yay same data - still had 11 potions. 00:22:33 quaff = still running fine 00:22:37 And that's -O2 00:23:17 Wait a min. 00:23:20 Odd. 00:23:28 I shouldn't have called that a 64-bit build, it's not apparently. 00:23:36 file Alternate\ Intel\ 64-bit\ build/Dungeon\ Crawl\ Stone\ Soup\ -\ Tiles.app/Contents/MacOS/Dungeon\ Crawl\ Stone\ Soup\ -\ Tiles 00:23:36 Alternate Intel 64-bit build/Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup - Tiles.app/Contents/MacOS/Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup - Tiles: Mach-O executable i386 00:23:43 not x86_64 00:23:46 Weird. 00:23:49 odd indeed 00:23:50 <|amethyst> hm 00:23:51 Not sure how that happened. 00:24:15 Oh you know - it's probably because of that hardcoded line. 00:24:19 set to i386 00:24:28 <|amethyst> that should only happen if BUILD_UNIVERSAL is on 00:24:36 Ah, fair enough. 00:24:44 * frogor tries to rebuild and see what happens. 00:24:52 <|amethyst> oh 00:25:15 <|amethyst> ifeq ($(MARCH),x86_64) 00:25:17 <|amethyst> ifdef TILES 00:25:17 <|amethyst> SDK_VER := 10.6 00:25:17 <|amethyst> else 00:25:17 <|amethyst> SDK_VER := 10.5 00:25:18 <|amethyst> endif 00:26:24 That's ok, I disabled auto sdk anywas 00:26:36 O_AUTO_SDK=1 SDK_VER=10.4 DEVELOPER_PATH=/Developer BUILD_UNIVERSAL=1 00:26:38 er 00:26:39 NO_AUTO_SDK=1 SDK_VER=10.4 DEVELOPER_PATH=/Developer BUILD_UNIVERSAL=1 00:26:59 does the 10.4 SDK support amd64? 00:27:16 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:27:28 Mm, that's a good question. I know 10.4 supports 32-bit, not sure. Checking. 00:28:31 'Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) only supports 64-bit binaries that link against libSystem (aka POSIX, etc.) and handful of low-level libraries/frameworks. You cannot build an Objective-C / Cocoa / etc. 00:28:31 using application for 64b using the 10.4 SDK.' 00:28:47 So there's no 64-bit frameworks 00:28:50 Or limited nes 00:28:52 *ones 00:29:11 So the answer is 'maybe, but probably not' 00:29:57 http://lists.apple.com/archives/xcode-users/2009/Jun/msg00030.html 00:32:03 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:46 But looking at that code chunk in question, it would never fire for me anyways 00:32:54 Since it's wrapped in ifndef SDK_VER 00:33:00 I predefined that. 00:34:15 Ah, I see why. 00:34:25 My arch is detected with uname -m. 00:34:29 uname_M := $(shell sh -c 'uname -m 2>/dev/null || echo not') 00:34:34 MARCH := $(uname_M) 00:34:52 On this Core 2 Duo machine: uname -m 00:34:52 i386 00:34:57 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:04 Tsk 00:36:34 you could try MARCH=amd64 if you pick a different SDK 00:37:01 for example I think the 10.5 SDK has everything? 00:37:35 The only thing uname -m detects is the kernel your machine started with. 00:37:41 <|amethyst> as kilobyte mentioned earlier, though, there's not much point to a 64-bit build 00:37:58 That's only going to guaranteed return x86_64 on a 64-bit machine on OS X with 10.8 - since it only has a 64-bit kernel 00:38:37 yeah, it's true 00:38:38 Earlier builds of OS X, uname -m will return i386, even if the proc is 64-bit, if the OS started up on a 32-bit kernel. 00:39:20 <|amethyst> wait, OS X lets you run 64-bit programs on a 32-bit kernel? 00:39:26 we don't need that much address space EVER, and there isn't yet a release of OS X that demands amd64 binaries either 00:39:55 |amethyst: ... something like that 00:40:09 The better detection on OS X is something like this 00:40:13 > getconf LONG_BIT 00:40:13 64 00:40:22 obviously the kernel needs SOME 64-bit stuff 00:40:41 On a 64-bit machine, regardless of kernel startup, LONG_BIT will return 64. 32 on a 32-bit machine. 00:40:53 <|amethyst> frogor: I think the point of that check was telling the difference between ppc and i386 00:40:55 Mind you, that doesn't tell you Intel vs PPC. 00:41:19 |amethyst: Yeah, but the side effect is it gets pulled into my -arch for my non-universal build. 00:41:27 So I don't get a 'native' build either :p 00:41:46 frogor: well, MARCH=amd64 may help 00:42:13 <|amethyst> actually 00:42:23 <|amethyst> %git ec59486 00:42:23 07kilobyte02 * 0.9-a1-542-gec59486: Fix conflict with a temp var used for guessing SDK_VER. 10(2 years, 3 months ago, 1 file, 5+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ec594861f119 00:42:35 <|amethyst> I think the line: CFLAGS_ARCH := -arch $(MARCH) is a bug 00:43:50 ... that's just a variable rename though. 00:44:03 Was it to keep it from colliding with an already existing ARCH? 00:44:07 <|amethyst> yes 00:44:14 ah hah 00:44:28 So this bit was probably not a good change: 00:44:28 -CFLAGS_ARCH := -arch $(ARCH) 00:44:28 +CFLAGS_ARCH := -arch $(MARCH) 00:44:38 <|amethyst> well 00:44:43 <|amethyst> it kept the behaviour 00:44:53 <|amethyst> but that behaviour might not be what you want 00:44:54 <|amethyst> then again 00:45:14 <|amethyst> hm 00:46:03 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:55 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:46:58 Ok, so yeah, there's a lot going on wrong there. 00:47:16 On OS X, if you want a 64-bit intel build, you pass in -arch x86_64 00:47:30 The ARCH they were trying to keep from colliding with was 00:47:38 sh -c 'cc -dumpmachine || echo unknown' 00:47:51 Which gets you things like i686-apple-darwin* 00:48:02 <|amethyst> is that what it reports on your machine? 00:48:16 On this machine here, which is a 10.6 machine, it reports: i686-apple-darwin10 00:48:29 10.6 machine Core 2 Duo. 00:48:52 <|amethyst> right, but 00:48:57 -!- ParallaxScroll has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:49:28 <|amethyst> if gcc says its target is i686 then it's reasonable to expect that it can produce 32-bit but not 64-bit binaries 00:50:59 Nah. 00:51:00 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1455720/mac-osx-10-6-compiler-a-puzzling-experience-with-32-vs-64-bit 00:51:23 My compiler is 32-bit, but it can build 64-bit targets. 00:51:47 <|amethyst> cc -dumpmachine is supposed to say what it targets 00:52:19 cat >foo.c 00:52:19 main() {} 00:52:23 cc foo.c -o foo 00:52:27 file foo 00:52:31 foo: Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64 00:52:34 (just ran that) 00:52:35 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:52:38 <|amethyst> right 00:52:46 cc -dumpmachine 00:52:46 i686-apple-darwin10 00:52:51 <|amethyst> but I don't think we want to add that to the makefile 00:52:55 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:53:08 I'm just saying your 'native' architecture detection is lacking for OS X ) 00:53:09 :) 00:53:48 <|amethyst> If the compiler lies to us about its target there's not a lot we can do (other than just not passing -arch at all I guess) 00:54:06 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:54:06 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:55:14 <|amethyst> hm 00:55:40 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:57 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 00:56:32 <|amethyst> but, yeah, the OS X support in the Makefile is a bit... unique... as you have noticed 00:56:47 <|amethyst> the makefile as a whole, for that matter :P 00:57:16 heh 00:57:28 The uniqueness of the OS is one of the reasons I enjoy it. 00:57:33 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:58:41 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 01:01:41 frogor: |amethyst was just saying that our Makefile sucks 01:01:49 hah 01:01:53 in a way all its own 01:02:32 sysctl -n hw.cpu64bit_capable 01:02:32 1 01:02:38 FYI 01:02:47 wouldn't it be good for os x if somebody kept the xcode project up to date? 01:02:47 (if you want a reliable test method for 64-bit procs on OS X) 01:03:17 <|amethyst> SamB: yet it's still better than 90% of the stuff I've seen from vendors :/ 01:03:56 Zaba: the what now? 01:04:01 Zaba: Yes and no. If you keep the XCode project up to date, you're in a bit of a hard place if you're on a newer OS because the project would need to be XCode 3 compatible for older machine builds, but Xcode 3.x installs are a tad tricky with Lion/ML 01:04:22 <|amethyst> two XCode projects then? 01:04:29 Oh joy, twice the work. 01:04:34 <|amethyst> heh 01:04:34 I prefer the command-line build, myself. 01:04:42 Since it's just variants on how it works on other platforms. 01:04:47 xcode has a command-line tool to build its projects, doesn't it 01:04:54 Yes, xcodebuild 01:05:16 I'm just saying, right now the Makefile still applies cross-platform ish. 01:05:20 <|amethyst> somebody was asking about a CodeBlocks project file too 01:05:55 Plus XCode project files have to know all the associated resource files and such. Adding a new file to the project? Gotta update the project file. 01:06:09 And it's a total pita to edit the .xml without using the XCode GUI. 01:06:43 <|amethyst> write a script to generate it :) 01:06:53 <|amethyst> we should do that for the VS project too 01:07:21 ... There's a VS project? I hope that's a joke. 01:07:29 * frogor looks 01:07:50 Oh lord there is 01:08:37 Without a dedicated OS X guy, honestly, you're like 90%+ of the way there with the Makefile as it is. 01:08:48 Just need a few tweaks for universal vs. native. 01:09:06 Let me try doing a real 64-bit build now. 01:09:07 'sec 01:15:06 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:52 -!- CeleryMa_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:13 -!- rapierx has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:21:30 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:22:02 Ah, ok. So definite definitive answer on 64-bit builds using 10.4 as the minimum SDK 01:22:13 Since it builds SDL 01:22:15 from src/audio/macosx/SDL_coreaudio.c:26: 01:22:23 /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Headers/Carbon.h:20:6: error: #error 64-bit not supported 01:22:35 That apparently links Carbon, which doesn't support 64-bit. 01:22:39 I wonder if SDL 2.0 still supports old OS X versions 01:23:12 Zaba: Funny you should mention that, I actually had to apply a post EOL support patch to this SDL 1.2 branch to properly build as pure 64-bit in the first place ) 01:23:14 :) 01:23:20 http://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/devel/libsdl/files/cpuinfo.diff?rev=78538 01:23:53 It was a result of this ticket 01:23:54 http://trac.macports.org/ticket/22754 01:23:58 libsdl fails to build for x86_64 on 10.5 01:24:19 apparently 2.0 does support 10.4 01:24:34 'k, re-setting to 10.5, trying again as 64-bit 01:24:46 it'd be worth to migrate to 2.0, but nobody cares about local tiles enough to do that 01:25:02 (I love my local tiles!) 01:25:39 Woo, just made it past SDL 01:25:44 On to sqlite 01:26:45 Btw, this diff file applied cleanly: http://trac.macports.org/export/78538/trunk/dports/devel/libsdl/files/cpuinfo.diff 01:27:20 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:27:42 rltiles passed, and on we go 01:27:57 Will be curious to see how this turns out ) 01:27:58 :) 01:31:44 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:33:46 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:34:57 frogor: the VS project was added because GDB on Windows is so crappy, IIUC 01:35:14 Hah, I wouldn't doubt it. 01:35:36 we still use GCC for the official builds 01:37:06 cross-compiled from Debian, I believe 01:40:01 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:41:52 file crawl 01:41:52 crawl: Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64 01:41:57 Woo, time to test. 01:42:31 Running fine, now to test exp pot 01:42:52 No crashes, no bus. 01:42:54 er bugs 01:43:05 <|amethyst> what optimisation level? 01:43:08 Yay, 64-bit native finally. Just had to bump it up to 10.5. 01:43:22 Let me check, but I still haven't played with it. Pretty sure still -O2 01:43:35 <|amethyst> it should say in .cflags 01:43:47 Ah, -O1 01:44:19 <|amethyst> yeah, -O1 is the default 01:44:39 Final build string: 01:44:39 http://pastebin.com/au0wPB3D 01:44:41 <|amethyst> also, if you rebuild 0.12, go ahead and use the latest in stone_soup-0.12 rather than 0.12.2 01:44:54 -!- CeleryMa_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:26 <|amethyst> or, better yet, coordinate with kilobyte so we can have 0.12.3 built for mac on day zero :) 01:45:28 That did require me patching SDL as I mentioned, though, to support 64-bit compilation. 01:46:00 <|amethyst> probably the official build would be 32-bit universal 01:46:19 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:46:24 Ah, that required no patches. 01:46:50 And could stay 10.4 SDK 01:47:40 Ok. So want me to re-checkout -0.12 latest and try it as-is? 01:47:46 For 32-bit universal build? 01:48:03 <|amethyst> if you don't mind 01:48:12 <|amethyst> oh, also, console versions of both 01:48:49 Wait both? What's the other I'm building? 01:49:06 0.12.2 ? 01:49:16 <|amethyst> err, sorry 01:49:22 <|amethyst> thought you were doing trunk 01:49:39 Oh, .3 ? I can try. 01:49:42 No worries. 01:50:03 <|amethyst> I mean 0.13 01:50:21 <|amethyst> in the long run it would be nice to get nightly mac builds again, but of course that requires infrastructure 01:50:25 Hah, duh. Silly me. 'latest' .12 -is- 3 :p 01:50:36 Sure, I can try .13 too 01:50:37 <|amethyst> %git stone_soup-0.12 01:50:37 07|amethyst02 * 0.12.2-36-gdb43a97: Fix Mac universal builds. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=db43a97da1ec 01:51:42 Ok, doing full checkout now 01:51:43 -!- Pwyll has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:54:01 |amethyst: Well, I still intend to see what I can accomplish using llvm-gcc at some point here 01:54:52 <|amethyst> yeah, I think we'd prefer to build with that 01:55:10 <|amethyst> but supporting old OS X could be difficult 01:56:01 Yeah. I know you can source the SDK files from the older XCode, I'm just not sure llvm-gcc could actually build against it. 01:56:35 -!- maahes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:40 -!- sdfg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:57:17 <|amethyst> actually, clang might be even better 02:02:05 And away she runs ... 02:02:51 Building 10.4 32-bit universal tiles now of 0.12.2-36-gdb43a97 02:03:51 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:08:06 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:58 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:14:34 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:02 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:22:19 Testing 02:22:27 file crawl 02:22:27 crawl: Mach-O universal binary with 2 architectures 02:22:27 crawl (for architecture i386): Mach-O executable i386 02:22:27 crawl (for architecture ppc): Mach-O executable ppc 02:22:36 cat build.h 02:22:36 #define CRAWL_VERSION_MAJOR "0.12" 02:22:36 #define CRAWL_VERSION_RELEASE VER_FINAL 02:22:36 #define CRAWL_VERSION_SHORT "0.12.2" 02:22:36 #define CRAWL_VERSION_LONG "0.12.2-36-gdb43a97" 02:23:09 <|amethyst> awesome! 02:23:28 <|amethyst> post it somewhere and !tell kilobyte 02:23:51 No crashes on exp pot 02:24:20 <|amethyst> frogor: also check whether casting a spell costs mana 02:24:29 'k. 02:24:34 Particular spell to test? 02:24:42 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:51 <|amethyst> anything, magic dart will do 02:25:22 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:24 Yeah, dart dropped me a point each time. 02:26:38 Seems fine 02:27:35 Ok. So trunk next? 02:27:57 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte the more I think about it, the more I think the thing we thought was a compiler bug (zero MP taken by spells) was actually a result of failing to rebuild something and therefore mixing old and new files 02:27:58 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:28:13 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte seems to work with -O1 for frogor 02:28:13 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:28:23 Yeah, lemme verify this build did -O1 02:28:48 hah 02:29:00 With a clean checkout of latest 0.12 it did 02:29:03 gcc-4.0 -arch i386 -arch ppc -faltivec -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -mmacosx-version-min=10.4 g++-4.0 -arch i386 -arch ppc -faltivec -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -mmacosx-version-min=10.4 -O2 [..] 02:29:09 -O2 :D 02:29:24 <|amethyst> we check for 4.2 I think :/ 02:29:52 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte -O2 with gcc-4.0 works for frogor (testing i386, not x86_64 or ppc) 02:29:53 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:32:30 Ok, now I understood this bit # [ds] 10.4 SDK g++-4.0 + x86_64 runs into SDL compile issues. 02:32:34 That's the thing I patched against 02:32:36 Fun. 02:33:46 -!- sumguy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:34:06 Is there a particular reason for the switch to 4.0 with 10.4? 02:34:11 4.2.1 doesn't work? 02:34:14 * frogor checks 02:34:37 Ah, apparently so. 02:34:38 'l 02:34:40 er, 'k 02:35:00 Ok, now for trunk 02:35:52 -!- jeffro has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:36:14 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:36:32 Oh wait, non-tiles too 02:41:59 Building 10.4 32-bit universal console now of 0.12.2-36-gdb43a97 02:42:21 <|amethyst> awesome! I've gtg for now, but post links here and something will happen :) 02:43:20 Will do. 02:47:44 btw, still compile errors 02:47:46 --- 02:47:46 stuff.cc: In function 'void end(int, bool, const char*, ...)': 02:47:46 stuff.cc:245: error: 'need_pause' was not declared in this scope 02:47:47 make: *** [stuff.o] Error 1 02:47:49 --- 02:48:09 cdo trunk and mingw builds 02:48:43 since september 11th 02:52:12 Oh. That's a pretty easy fix. 02:53:12 Odd that it happens, though. 02:53:21 bool need_pause = true; 02:53:42 It's defined in the same #if block comparison as down near line 245 02:53:50 If it's defined above, should be defined below. 02:54:23 <|amethyst> (not quite gone yet) 02:54:29 <|amethyst> %git 883680b4 02:54:29 07kilobyte02 * 0.13-a0-3021-g883680b: Let a string get out of scope in end(), for valgrind's sake. 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 35+ 33-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=883680b4d8b7 02:54:47 <|amethyst> moved the declaration one block deeper 02:57:07 ./crawl --version 02:57:07 Crawl version 0.12.2-36-gdb43a97 02:57:07 Save file version 34.25 02:57:07 Compiled with GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5494) on Sep 14 2013 at 00:53:15 02:57:16 CFLAGS: -O2 -pipe -Wall -Wformat-security -Wundef -Wno-parentheses -Wno-unused-parameter -Wwrite-strings -Wshadow -Wuninitialized -Icontrib/install/i686-apple-darwin10/include -Iutil -I. -Irltiles -I/usr/include/ncurses -DWIZARD -DASSERTS -DCLUA_BINDINGS 02:57:16 LDFLAGS: -rdynamic -O2 02:57:27 file ./crawl 02:57:27 ./crawl: Mach-O universal binary with 2 architectures 02:57:27 ./crawl (for architecture i386): Mach-O executable i386 02:57:27 ./crawl (for architecture ppc): Mach-O executable ppc 02:57:43 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:57:46 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:58:06 Runs fine. 02:58:25 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3043-g225e97d: Fix Windows console compilation. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=225e97d2351c 02:58:38 <|amethyst> you're testing on i386 only or also ppc? 02:58:48 I don't have a PowerPC machine here to test on, sadly. 02:59:15 <|amethyst> it sounded like SamB does, maybe bug him :) 02:59:24 Just hit myself with a magic dart, no problems with loss of magic pts 02:59:27 -!- profreshinal has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:59:43 <|amethyst> again, great work. good night 02:59:46 Potion quaff no crash 02:59:49 'night 03:03:40 -!- Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:04:50 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:05 I've got a powerpc machine, too 03:05:36 Oh yeah? Well, when I post it up, feel free to test :D 03:06:24 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:08:16 Building 10.4 32-bit universal tiles now of 0.13-a0-3043-g225e97d 03:10:00 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:26 Zaba: Is that your primary machine? or just one you happened to have? 03:10:40 just something I happen to have 03:10:48 it could be my primary machine if it wasn't so godawfully slow 03:10:52 Heh 03:11:28 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:35 Was going to say - if that was your primary, based on what I've seen, the last time someone running 10.5 was able to successfully play a decent version ... you might have been very happy :) 03:11:57 well, I did build crawl on it once and even tiles worked 03:12:05 but it took a while... 03:12:25 On anything other than a G5 Mac Pro, I wouldn't doubt it. 03:12:31 yeah, it's a power mac g4 03:13:02 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:32 What's your current machine? 03:13:34 and I had to patch the sdl build system because it failed weirdly with altivec 03:13:40 I don't remember the details 03:14:08 I've been pretty much stuck with a crappy AMD E350 subnotebook for more than two years 03:14:16 it's also godawfully slow, but not quite as godawfully as the power mac 03:14:50 Hackintosh it? Unlikely with the triple threat of AMD + laptop + small form factor, but figured I'd ask :) 03:14:52 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:15:09 nah, wouldn't be worth it even if it were possible 03:18:49 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:28 DEPEND stuff.o 03:20:28 CXX stuff.o 03:20:47 Napkin: Well, it compiled just now with those latest patches. 03:20:54 Mind you, that's ol' gcc-4.0 though 03:21:23 4.4.5 here 03:21:41 Yeah. The joys of building for OS X 10.4 ... 03:22:16 (honestly amazed the project supports OS as far back as that - technically means I could install crawl on my AppleTV gen 1) 03:22:34 (as it's OS is based on OS X 10.4.7) 03:22:38 *its 03:23:02 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3043-g225e97d (34) 03:25:44 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 03:27:03 cat build.h 03:27:04 #define CRAWL_VERSION_MAJOR "0.13" 03:27:04 #define CRAWL_VERSION_RELEASE VER_ALPHA 03:27:04 #define CRAWL_VERSION_SHORT "0.13-a0" 03:27:04 #define CRAWL_VERSION_LONG "0.13-a0-3043-g225e97d" 03:27:14 ./crawl 03:27:14 ./crawl: Mach-O universal binary with 2 architectures 03:27:14 ./crawl (for architecture i386): Mach-O executable i386 03:27:14 ./crawl (for architecture ppc): Mach-O executable ppc 03:28:33 -!- jeffro has quit [Changing host] 03:28:34 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:08 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3043-g225e97d 03:31:26 Runs fine, no bugs, quaff exp pot and cast spell = magic pts drop. Seems all good. 03:32:14 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:32:39 Building 10.4 32-bit universal console now of 0.13-a0-3043-g225e97d 03:37:22 -!- jeffro has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 03:39:14 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:39:18 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 03:45:27 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:49:14 ./crawl --version 03:49:15 Crawl version 0.13-a0-3043-g225e97d 03:49:15 Save file version 34.48 03:49:15 Compiled with GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5494) on Sep 14 2013 at 01:48:42 03:49:24 file ./crawl 03:49:24 ./crawl: Mach-O universal binary with 2 architectures 03:49:25 ./crawl (for architecture i386): Mach-O executable i386 03:49:25 ./crawl (for architecture ppc): Mach-O executable ppc 03:49:26 Testing. 03:51:16 Runs fine, no bugs, quaff exp pot and cast spell = magic pts drop. Seems all good. 03:51:37 Time to package these bad boys up. 03:52:54 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 03:58:55 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:01:57 -!- KorpsDeKrieg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:02 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:45 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:04:53 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:04 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:43 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 04:09:15 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:12 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 04:14:55 noobcanoe (L18 LOEE) ASSERT(f.mons.alive()) in 'tags.cc' at line 1600 failed. (Vaults:1) 04:16:46 o_o Any particular reason why the project license file is called 'licence.txt' ? 04:17:02 instead of the standard LICENSE.TXT ? (not the s not c) 04:20:56 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:24:01 -!- myp has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:14 -!- pi31415 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:34:49 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:14 Uploading to mediafire 04:42:22 -!- petete has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 04:42:45 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 04:46:58 Uploaded to: http://www.mediafire.com/download/kxi5ssr6gq56ccg/DCSS_MACOSX_universal_10.4_powerpc_intel_32_bit.zip 04:48:00 !tell kilobyte http://www.mediafire.com/download/kxi5ssr6gq56ccg/DCSS_MACOSX_universal_10.4_powerpc_intel_32_bit.zip - both latest 0.12 and 0.13 builds, both console and tiles for each, suitable for redistribution 04:48:01 frogor: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 04:48:22 !tell |amethyst http://www.mediafire.com/download/kxi5ssr6gq56ccg/DCSS_MACOSX_universal_10.4_powerpc_intel_32_bit.zip - both latest 0.12 and 0.13 builds, both console and tiles for each, suitable for redistribution 04:48:23 frogor: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 04:49:22 !tell |amethyst Also, the embedded license file in the apps - I renamed it to 'LICENSE.txt' from your current misspelled 'licence.txt', just a head's up. 04:49:23 frogor: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 04:50:20 !tell Zaba Uploaded to http://www.mediafire.com/download/kxi5ssr6gq56ccg/DCSS_MACOSX_universal_10.4_powerpc_intel_32_bit.zip - give it a whirl with your PowerPC machine and let me know. 04:50:21 frogor: OK, I'll let zaba know. 04:50:43 ciao all 04:50:50 -!- frogor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:15 beh, missed him by 5 mins 04:55:15 kilobyte: You have 6 messages. Use !messages to read them. 05:01:44 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:46 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:04:07 -!- BasementCat has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:04:53 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 05:05:18 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:09:31 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:46 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:19:18 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:21:27 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:24:35 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:40:45 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 05:45:02 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:58:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:32 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:03 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:04 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:04:30 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:06:44 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:07:03 -!- atomicthumbs has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:07:10 -!- atomicthumbs has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:33 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:10:42 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:11:59 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:08 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:23 -!- ivan`` has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:20:28 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:07 -!- duralumin has quit [Client Quit] 06:23:46 -!- duralumin has quit [Client Quit] 06:24:03 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:30 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:00 -!- Voker57 has quit [] 06:27:21 -!- myrmidette has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:52 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:32 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:03 -!- duralumin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46:25 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:07 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:14:33 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 07:30:21 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:30:24 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 07:35:44 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:38:11 -!- enygmata has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:34 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:00:14 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:18 -!- BizmarkRibeye has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 08:12:31 -!- BizmarkRibeye has quit [Client Quit] 08:14:50 03galehar02 07* 0.13-a0-3044-gd516d2d: Restore the functionality of submitting new quotes from transifex. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 33+ 23-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d516d2d309b1 08:14:50 03Translators02 {galehar} 07* 0.13-a0-3045-g927dcb7: [Transifex] 10(5 minutes ago, 18 files, 646+ 91-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=927dcb7de753 08:16:26 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:23:00 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:23:03 -!- arwald has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:28:15 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:48 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:36:53 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 08:38:35 -!- chlorine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:53:03 -!- Percivale has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:55:05 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:20:56 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:11 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:31:37 <|amethyst> !tell frogor "licence" isn't misspelled; we use Australian English :) 09:31:38 |amethyst: OK, I'll let frogor know. 09:34:54 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:07 -!- Bodrick has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:36:53 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 09:37:26 thought: let's bring back the old neqoxec behavior, but temporary mutations 09:38:13 <|amethyst> what do you mean by the "old" behaviour? 09:38:28 |amethyst: smite targeting, single mutation (so not like a wretched star) 09:39:55 <|amethyst> when was it smite targeted? 09:40:35 like... .4 09:40:48 friendly fire prompts during aiming Dazzling Spray by ortoslon 09:43:10 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:45:51 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:45:57 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 09:46:00 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:52:36 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:50 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:57:59 -!- Staplegun has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:22 thought 2: rather than being batty, should give thrashing horrors a charge attack 10:01:43 A moth of wrath berserked an ice dragon without having direct line of sight (interrupted by corner) 10:02:08 @??moth of wrath 10:02:08 moth of wrath (04y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 9 | HP: 33-64 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 2505(rage) | fly | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 504 | Sz: small | Int: insect. 10:02:21 speed 12, are you sure it didn't berserk it and then just move into a place it couldn't? 10:02:38 It would've had to move away from me for that to happen 10:02:59 what about the dragon doublemoving? 10:03:03 Well I'm not 100% sure it happened but that's what it looked like 10:03:15 the dragon too would've had to move away for no reason 10:03:48 that sounds fishy... is your game still on that turn? 10:04:22 It's on a few turns after 10:05:16 well, may as well report it, someone will eventually look into it 10:05:40 If I note the turn, can I easily watch the tv later? 10:05:47 -!- ackack has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:09 I'll do that to check 10:06:55 -!- ElSteveo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:10:00 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3046-g2036e7f: Don't prompt for friendly fire when targetting Dazzling Spray (#7552) 10(76 seconds ago, 1 file, 10+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2036e7f65fb5 10:11:25 <|amethyst> maybe in general is_targetting should imply those things 10:11:51 <|amethyst> (dont_stop_player and {friend,foe}_info.dont_stop 10:11:52 <|amethyst> ) 10:13:40 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:35 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:19:05 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:03 <|amethyst> !tell DracoOmega in 2036e7f I changed your base_beam.is_targetting = false; to tempbeam instead, because it seemed like a typo. It fixes a few cases where you might still get a "blocked by a tree" message during targetting 10:20:05 |amethyst: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 10:20:27 <|amethyst> !tell DracoOmega the relevant commit of yours is 00ec6069 10:20:28 |amethyst: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 10:23:51 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:25:42 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:25 -!- evablue has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:30:46 -!- pi31415 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:27 -!- mineral has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:02:04 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:02:37 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:07:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:12:30 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:12:51 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16:17 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 11:16:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:16:21 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:39:19 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41:26 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:49:30 -!- Utis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:26 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 11:51:21 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:46 -!- SenoraRaton has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:57:25 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 12:00:31 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:58 -!- Taraiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:06:07 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.2-36-gdb43a97 12:07:02 |amethyst: yes, it does have the "* rebuilding crawl" line 12:07:05 * rebuilding crawl: new build flags or prefix 12:09:48 |amethyst: I compared the source/.cflags files and the difference is that my build script doesn't expand SAVEDIR=~/.crawl/ but the shell does. I guess I should put quotes around the SAVEDIR 12:11:09 ~ is specifically a shell thing 12:11:31 if you're using it with other programs, expand it yourself 12:12:02 I want crawl to store the savegames in the user's home directory if possible, so i'd rather not expand it at build time 12:12:25 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3046-g2036e7f (34) 12:12:53 then you need special code in crawl to expand the ~ 12:13:00 it is a SHELL thing 12:15:58 that makes sense, i should probably just use /var/games/crawl or somesuch 12:18:12 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:43 <|amethyst> hm 12:27:14 <|amethyst> pi31415: which one is it expanded in? 12:27:30 <|amethyst> TRACK_CFLAGS or OLD_CFLAGS? 12:29:46 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: ninja kapow!] 12:29:55 |amethyst: it is expanded by my shell before make is even invoked 12:29:58 <|amethyst> oh 12:30:05 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:13 <|amethyst> then you need make SAVEDIR='~/.crawl' 12:30:14 !seen dpeg 12:30:15 I last saw dpeg at Thu Sep 12 00:34:02 2013 UTC (2d 16h 56m 12s ago) quitting with message 'Quit: sleep'. 12:30:17 |amethyst: I fixed SAVEDIR and now the crawl build is working as I expect, which is a huge speedup for me =] 12:30:19 <|amethyst> to protect it from the shell 12:30:30 <|amethyst> # SAVEDIR -- place to hold writeable data (saves, database, morgue 12:30:30 <|amethyst> # dumps). Can be relative to "prefix", absolute or placed 12:30:32 -!- oneof3steves has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:30:33 <|amethyst> # in the user's home dir (~). Remember to protect the ~ 12:30:36 <|amethyst> # from your shell! 12:31:03 <|amethyst> if you did make SAVEDIR=~/.crawl it would use the home directory of the user who built it, not the user who's running it 12:32:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:11 ah, so there is code in there already 12:33:44 I just didn't read the docs carefully enough 12:51:11 -!- maahes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:51:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:16 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:03:30 -!- Guest51784 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:04:05 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:24 koil the Gusty (L5 TeAE) (D:3) 13:06:40 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:10:28 -!- omnirizon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:50 -!- Bodrick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13:27 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 13:19:11 -!- igorra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:23:22 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:14 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:07 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:35:02 -!- Sorbius_ is now known as Sorbius 13:39:00 Kalma (L22 LOSk) ASSERT(f.mons.alive()) in 'tags.cc' at line 1600 failed. (Elf:3) 13:39:19 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:48:07 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:52:32 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:58:49 <|amethyst> hm, looking into = key not working in opera webtiles 13:59:06 <|amethyst> I can "fix" it by adding 107: 61 to key_conversion 13:59:22 <|amethyst> but then numpad + in other browsers is treated like = 14:03:31 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:55 <|amethyst> Even if I make it opera-specific, numpad + appears to look exactly the same as = 14:05:07 <|amethyst> in Opera, both are 107 for keydown, 43 for keypress, no shift 14:05:38 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:04 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:17 -!- thug_lessons is now known as lessens 14:10:54 would it be bad if I converted large rocks into beam-like objects? 14:11:08 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:16 you're throwing a boulder at dudes, after all 14:11:37 <|amethyst> do they need to be buffed? 14:12:11 <|amethyst> I was under the impression they were considered the only thing that makes throwing worth training 14:12:12 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:28 |amethyst: I could reduce their damage as balance 14:12:36 ??penetration 14:12:37 penetration[1/1]: Missiles fired from a launcher of penetration act like bolt spells and can hit several targets. Not unique to crossbows anymore, as javelins may have this brand as well. 14:12:52 "large rock of penetration" 14:13:21 !lg * sk=throwing sklev>20 14:13:22 62. Datul the Orcish Ballista (L27 HOGl), worshipper of The Shining One, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-07-10 21:25:02, with 12107984 points after 134558 turns and 17:35:29. 14:13:53 apparently even boulders aren't good enough to be consistently trained 14:20:59 it would probably make stone giants more dangerous 14:22:14 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:15 -!- coyo7e has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:22:30 Large rocks aren't very good around vaults. 14:22:32 The penetrating large rock pierces through the kobold. / The penetrating large rock pierces through the bat. / The penetrating large rock pierces through the kobold. 14:23:45 -!- gammafunk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:31:18 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:31:59 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3047-g0169dd3: Fix = key in Webtiles in Opera. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0169dd3a1645 14:33:38 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-3047-g0169dd3 (34) 14:37:07 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:38:29 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:40:55 <|amethyst> !tell edlothiol I seem to have a problem connecting to an https webtiles server with Opera. Using plain http works 14:40:56 |amethyst: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 14:45:48 03bh02 07* 0.13-a0-3048-g02ff187: Make Large Rocks penetrating 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=02ff1875cfc3 14:45:50 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:26 -!- duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:49:38 -!- Guest47493 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:49:54 -!- Fhqwhgads__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51:13 That's more of a buff to Tr and Og and a minor nerf to allies 14:54:04 -!- ChrisOelmueller has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:11 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:22 -!- duralumin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:56:02 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:56:10 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 14:56:29 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:59:22 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:04 -!- SenoraRaton has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:01:50 -!- ogaz_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:52 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:58 -!- bh has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:03:00 -!- bh_ is now known as bh 15:03:13 I bet stone giants will happily squash other monsters to hit you :) 15:03:40 bh: that was also a buff to Og and Tr :) 15:03:51 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:03:51 -!- deathanatos has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:04:00 well... yes 15:04:43 -!- sumguy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:05:02 -!- eMagenta has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:05:05 If it's a choice between pen and reducing the damage, I'd rather see the damage reduced 15:05:09 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:05:21 since throwing a giant boulder at people should bust through the crowd. 15:05:59 bh: well, that is an argument from realism, but I think the gameplay effect is worth it. Another potential nerf is the mulching rate, btw. 15:06:20 nah, it's an argument from "That would be really cool" 15:06:42 dpeg: similarly, I think we should change dragons to break down doors 15:06:51 and never flee 15:10:02 bh: I agree it's cool... just saying it should be backed by gameplay thinking (which is okay in this instance, imo) 15:10:59 eh, buffing large rocks wasn't needed at all. If an ogre wants penetration then he can use javelins 15:11:41 buppy: if it's imbalanced we can tone down the damage 15:12:09 ... and then they become identical to javelins of penetration 15:12:42 javelins do 10 damage, large rocks do 20. I think a 18 damage rock is sufficiently distinguished from a javelin. 15:13:36 how does penetration work? is it the same damage roll to every enemy it hits? 15:13:40 -!- Staplegun has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:04 cause hitting 5 enemies at once at 18 damage is a lot more than 1 at 20 15:16:25 -!- ogaz_ is now known as ogaz 15:17:06 -!- tatara has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:18:16 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:23 -!- gammafunk_ has quit [Client Quit] 15:20:42 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 273 seconds] 15:24:26 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:54 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:28:26 -!- Dalvant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:30:17 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:31:17 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:35 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:32:14 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:32:57 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Quit: IceChat - Keeping PC's cool since 2000] 15:33:23 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:54 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:39:53 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:18 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:33 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:38 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:50 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 15:43:39 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3049-g4692545: Be more careful about checking a base type. 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=46925459ec79 15:43:39 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3050-ga76b329: Simplify. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a76b329b3fca 15:45:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:48:30 |amethyst: I wasn't checking the base type 'cause I wasn't expecting to see penetrating Books of Transmutation 15:48:55 <|amethyst> yeah, as I said in the commit message, it can't happen currently 15:49:07 and I find your lack of brackets disturbing ;) 15:49:22 <|amethyst> no braces for single-line bodies 15:49:38 <|amethyst> (assuming a single-line condition as well) 15:49:44 <|amethyst> that's in coding_conventions.txt 15:52:02 the problem i tend to have with bh commits is not coding style 15:52:02 ChrisOelmueller: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:52:25 assuming 0.13 is branched off soon, what are the chances some of the mess introduced until then can be reverted in time? 15:52:35 !messages 15:52:36 (1/1) simmarine said (2w 3d 23h 14m 35s ago): /* hi ChrisOelmermermerm */ 15:52:48 haha 15:52:49 sorry, are you blaming me for Lava Orcs or Djinni? 15:52:58 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:27 simmarine: this sounds like a co-production w/tarotdeck somehow 15:53:40 no if those even make it to 0.13 i will fork crawl 15:53:41 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:54:25 wow. Before your threat of a fork, I was really confused. Now I've seen the light. 15:55:04 you should continue removing random bad vaults, i can stand behind that and not look stupid 15:55:27 adding random features or monsters apparently is not it 15:55:31 name names and I'll nuke them 15:56:09 ChrisOelmueller: why beat around the bush for so long and not talk about pros and cons of penetrating large rocks instead? 15:57:04 i can't contribute more to that discussion than what has been said, and some insults that i'm afraid will not be sufficient 15:57:49 ChrisOelmueller: I was with you for your first three words, but after that all trolling just sounds like muffled flatulence to me. 15:58:39 Indeed, feedback would work much better if it wasn't accompanied by personal attacks. 15:59:08 i think we've been trying that more than once already 15:59:44 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 15:59:47 03bh02 07* 0.13-a0-3051-g7022c28: Make polymoths not spawn 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7022c2830554 16:00:18 okay that works for one 16:00:33 name some bad vaults. 16:00:57 This is the point in the conversation where we stop whining and you help us make a better game. 16:03:04 I think LO and Djinni might be salvageable. LO is we remove speed changes and Djinni if we remove everything other than EP 16:03:50 <|amethyst> can we declare a feature freeze yet? 16:04:58 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:58 there was talk about fixing dj, but it appeared to be hard to convince its owner 16:05:35 well, if it's going into a stable release there's no "ownership" any more 16:05:46 complaining about races you dislike is similar to griping about the existence of wizmode 16:05:55 <|amethyst> He did seem to be coming round to the idea that EP + hungerless was inherently hard to balance 16:06:01 i'm not interested in lo enough to also split off some of the proposed tension changes that went with it, but certainly tension is not the only problem 16:06:15 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:06:30 The biggest problem is speed fluctuations. It lets you kite basically everything 16:06:55 <|amethyst> And even kilobyte agrees that Djinn aren't ready for 0.13 16:07:14 <|amethyst> And in fact has already suggested disabling them in non-alpha builds 16:07:18 yeah whatever came out of this day was that apparently player rHellfire from turn 0 is fine, so i think i walked away after that 16:07:29 |amethyst: absolutely yes to feature freeze! 16:07:44 <|amethyst> dpeg: I guess I'll send an email to crd 16:07:50 thank you! 16:07:58 what's the date for cutting the release? 16:08:25 bh: i'll compile a list, but you will find the grunt_ part in it a lot, so some of it will be personal after all 16:08:57 I think I've deleted more of my own vaults than otherwise 16:09:20 -!- Flex has quit [] 16:09:59 bh: |amethyst suggested removing food->contam, but after thinking about it, it would cause far more trouble than good: with gourmand or even just a freshly butchered yak, there are no practical limits 16:10:18 -!- Fhqwhgads__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:10:37 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:51 do we want to merge this: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7539 16:10:52 there's few cases where one-time food costs are meaningful 16:11:38 how about making them unable to rage? 16:11:45 DjBe is really easy. 16:11:54 i think just humans with ep and modified apts is "weird" enough 16:11:58 demons somehow can't rage, yeah 16:12:35 kilobyte: I can't tell if that's agreement or disagreement :) 16:12:41 most complaints i have heard about djinn boil down to "they have way too many things going on" 16:12:57 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:13:03 I don't understand _why_ they can't rage, but applying that to djinn would be consistent, and solve this issue 16:13:14 ep, rhellfire, no food, contam costs, temporary muts, demon resists, hovering, no legs 16:13:31 i'm sure i'm forgetting some 16:13:40 (demon resists would include rTorment) 16:13:43 contam costs need thorough balancing 16:13:44 ontoclasm: I agree. If that works, additional bits could be added. 16:13:55 Bloax: angels are demons yet don't have rTorment 16:13:58 oh, weirdness wih healing 16:14:55 hovering could be turned into permaflight that, unlike other races, can't be disabled. That'd be a buff but nothing that can't be counteracted by dropping some apts or whatever. 16:15:09 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:30 ophan (05G) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 74-118 | AC/EV: 10/10 | 08holy, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1404 | Sp: b.fire (3d24), holy flames | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:15:30 %??Ophan 16:16:47 removal of nausea made food costs irrelevant in most branches 16:16:58 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:17:03 Well it does make sense for 'demons' to be 'beings of various religious spheres'. 16:17:23 because contaminated chunks are edible for some reason, under normal circumstances 16:17:59 in, say, Orc, Sif Munites could hardly channel at all as they kept getting nauseated -- not enough to mess with normal hunger, but enough to shut down infinite mana 16:18:05 of course it's way too late to change that now, but i still believe just restricting it would've been a better approach 16:18:14 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:18:15 and also one that doesn't make gourmand meaningless 16:19:50 regardless, there's no particular reason for djinn to have no hunger clock other than "because they're ~~magical~~" 16:20:26 as for Lava Orcs, I'm afraid the heat aura trivializes a lot of fights and is abusable otherwise. It has strong synergy with cleave, too. 16:20:29 ontoclasm: like cats that reincarnate? :) 16:20:43 this, and speed changes 16:21:03 ontoclasm: they feed on the ambient energy that exists in the dungeon 16:21:06 bh: not that felid lives are an amzing mechanic, but 16:21:10 ontoclasm: the main reason it putting a nearly hard cap at hunger costs 16:21:11 due to the orb of zot 16:21:16 ontoclasm: I mean "magic" 16:21:26 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:31 temporary mutations, not so scary after all 16:21:31 kilobyte: they only get temporary muts 16:21:34 Bloax: next you'll tell me that you can only win by retrieving the orb of zot 16:21:48 my impression is that most people just ignore the contam bar altogether 16:21:52 yeah, temp mutations might have been a bad idea 16:21:55 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:55 -!- axujen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:04 because it takes -tons- of spells to fill up and then the muts go away quickly anyway 16:22:18 so basically instead of a hard cap, it's no cap at all 16:22:31 bh: no, you win by dying 16:22:42 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:22:52 because the genocide of the dungeon population has been aversed once again 16:23:41 ontoclasm: for Sif channeling it is a strong restriction, at least. Casting lev9 spells in the midgame also gets capped. 16:23:50 kilobyte: nah, don't dismiss them so quickly. I think temporary mutations have great potential. 16:24:01 (not talking about Dj here) 16:24:02 ontoclasm: you are probably right about smaller costs, though 16:24:23 dpeg: could be greatly rebalanced instead, perhaps 16:24:44 compare to normal hunger, though 16:25:06 if you push the cap there, you completely lose the ability to cast, period 16:25:07 I'd need to look at how it is balanced in Light 16:25:17 until yo uspend multiple turns in combat 16:25:24 eating a consumable 16:25:40 spending a couple turns is hardly a deterrence 16:25:57 new draining seems toothless compared to old draining 16:26:19 ...but old draining didn't do anything 16:26:20 bh: people complain about it being insane in the Tomb 16:26:43 -!- omnirizon has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:26:47 the main effect of new draining is pushing your high-level spells back to uncastability 16:26:50 bh: but you're right about it being toothless everywhere else 16:27:41 |amethyst: if you have some seconds to check a small menu code patch, i wonder whether what i did is the best approach here (particularly the overloading of set_more) http://bpaste.net/show/bEohY5fg6pE7FlcRz38W/ 16:27:48 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:07 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3052-g529821a: Move "Gram" to _real_weapon_name_. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=529821a1da50 16:29:07 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-3053-g00ae5af: A bunch of quotes. 10(52 seconds ago, 1 file, 53+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=00ae5afe4c58 16:29:39 <|amethyst> dpeg: oh, doh... I sent it but used the wrong From: address 16:30:34 <|amethyst> I guess I'll resend from the correct address so it doesn't have to sit waiting for moderation 16:33:50 |amethyst: yes, best not to moderate 16:34:23 nobody seemsed to know when i asked before, so 16:34:23 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:48 why do we have both TILEP_FLAG_CUT_CENTAUR and _NAGA separate 16:35:01 as far as i can see they do exactly the same thing 16:35:10 and every place that checks for one checks for the other too 16:37:20 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 16:38:34 oh yeah 16:38:49 Did you know the demon whip is a bit too wide? 16:39:42 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: maybe someone thought we might want to make the two kinds of bardings different sizes or something? 16:39:50 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: also because removing flags is a pain :) 16:40:16 <|amethyst> anyway, I must be off. second CRD mail sent but apparently it too is stuck somewhere 16:40:29 <|amethyst> ah, there it is 16:41:56 the last time Forest was discussed, I don't recall anyone saying it's meant for 0.14 16:42:44 somehow, every of my games that could enter it got Crypt instead, so I didn't get to test it personally, though 16:43:11 I only did it as a Fedhas follower, so my impression is very colored 16:48:20 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:35 -!- SteampunkDuck has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:51:22 -!- Soner has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:46 -!- Soner has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:46 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:52 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 16:52:12 I did it twice, both with blasters. I think the branch gets a lot of bad reputation, but I also don't think we have to rush it. In my experience, branches take the longest time to ripe (among species, gods and branches). 16:58:26 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:58:30 !seen DracoOmega 16:58:30 I last saw DracoOmega at Tue Aug 27 02:50:01 2013 UTC (2w 4d 19h 8m 29s ago) quitting with message 'Quit: Leaving'. 16:59:00 Grunt: what would you say about Forest wrt 0.13? 17:01:57 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 17:05:07 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:44 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 17:05:54 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:00 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:11:34 -!- Fhqwhgads__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:45 -!- BasementCat has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:31:02 hm. I think there may or may not be a bug in forget map 17:31:17 could be wizmode only 17:31:44 looks like it. 17:32:27 -!- kingbuddyboy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:41:02 -!- duckroller has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:04 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:42:21 -!- Gotham has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:50 -!- Utis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:43:42 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:06 -!- mineral has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:45:31 -!- sdfg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:45:36 -!- duralumin_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:51 http://pastebin.com/S73Hrifr 17:49:52 maybe 17:49:54 just maybe 17:50:01 malmut could maaaaaaybe check mr 17:50:26 I'm extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments. 17:50:37 But completely naked to mutations. 17:50:42 Because that's not a hostile enchantment. 17:50:49 That's a mutation! 17:53:07 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:54:33 radiation isn't magic, silly 17:56:41 yeah, it's SCIENCE 17:57:53 magic neqoxec radiation 17:58:04 causing instantaneous mutation 17:58:22 neqoxeci are powerful gamma sources 17:58:38 their toenails are literally cobalt 60 17:58:39 is that the formal plural of neqoxec? 17:58:52 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:58 Bloax: what did you mean about demon whips 17:59:11 the doll tile or the item tile? 17:59:14 ogaz: I have no idea. 17:59:20 They leave those funny purple trails. 17:59:21 Doll tile. 18:01:33 fr neqoxecs decay 18:02:29 -!- Soner2 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:23 -!- Soner has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:36 ...why does it even have this glow thing around it 18:05:57 geekosaur: MH_HALFLIFE 18:07:06 -!- MIC132 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:07:51 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.13-a0-3054-g7c3917f: Player doll tiles (Team Impy, 7490) 10(32 hours ago, 49 files, 30+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c3917f37ecd 18:07:51 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.13-a0-3055-gbc0cfd3: Tengu tile tweaks (pubby, 7545) 10(32 hours ago, 5 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bc0cfd3c4187 18:07:51 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.13-a0-3056-g305a040: Djinn hair tiles 10(31 hours ago, 4 files, 12+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=305a04065498 18:07:51 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.13-a0-3057-gc8ee00c: Fix djinn player doll tiles 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c8ee00c96232 18:07:51 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.13-a0-3058-g1160cc8: Fix dwhip doll tile 10(59 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1160cc881224 18:13:15 -!- duckroller has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:16:38 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:41 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:31 ogaz: you'd have to ask the cat who originally generated the name 18:18:59 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:19:59 which is probably dead, as neqoxecs were already in by 1998, and cats have quite short life span 18:22:03 kilobyte: depends on if it was a cat or kitten 18:22:18 much to my father's disappointment, my parents had a cat that lasted 16 or 17 years 18:23:32 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:41 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:29:14 I've known multiple cats who lived to 19 or 20 years 18:32:58 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:57 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 18:41:14 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:44:54 -!- fungee has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:47:59 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:49:01 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 18:49:32 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:49:49 |amethyst: here is a patch to support SDL2. It works with GL but I am not done with the GLES part. http://terrorpin.net/~ben/stone_soup-0.12.2-sdl2-take1.diff.txt 18:50:27 -!- Soner2 is now known as Soner 18:56:20 kilobyte: Forest still needs a lot of work and/or discussion before it's ready for prime time, IMO. It's rather a mess right now. 18:56:39 (At the absolute least, the current branch rotation scheme doesn't work very well.) 18:57:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:34 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:47 -!- duckroller has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:07:42 I am a afraid that the hostility really got to draco_omega :( 19:11:02 -!- Rebenga has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:32 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:11:45 what hostility 19:12:30 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:12:39 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 19:13:05 forum was full of it 19:14:02 (What a surprise.) 19:14:20 IRC was/is too, really 19:14:39 I guess I didn't realize tavern was since I don't read it much and don't... understand it very well 19:14:45 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:57 it's alright if there are all kinds of kinks to be ironed out... but it's not alright to insult the man who's been doing all the work 19:14:59 that was only part of why he's gone 19:15:00 Don't try to apply logic to Tavern. <_< 19:15:07 the other part, well. 19:15:25 But yes a lot of people have definitely been hostile to a lot of his work in a lot of places 19:15:26 Well it's sad if the forum got the better of him. 19:15:43 Because he's generally hailed as a gooddev where I hang out. 19:15:50 SwissStopwatch: this is so bizarre because the same people were all hyped about new Cj and new vaults 19:15:51 of course without his flaws 19:16:11 (not everything is liked) 19:16:19 But the positives seemed to outweigh the negatives. 19:16:33 well yes not everything was liked... I like newCj book, like almost all of new vaults 19:16:42 And I think most people liked those 19:16:47 elemental evocables 19:17:03 yes those are actually sort of gamechanging and good 19:17:07 SwissStopwatch: you'd think that someone with this list of stuff would get some credit 19:17:36 It's far easier to complain about things than to praise things. 19:17:38 that only happens when people have a good sense of perspective 19:17:56 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:56 it's a lot easier to complain, especially with the feedback channels being as they are 19:18:05 (For that matter, it's far easier to complain than to offer meaningful criticism.) 19:18:06 also -harder- to complain in a sense though 19:18:14 It's much harder to praise. 19:18:15 Like. 19:18:23 Would you just post a topic., 19:18:31 Called "boy this new [feature] is great!" 19:18:46 The tendency is certainly just to play things and play them a lot when they're good 19:18:52 i pretty much assume the only people who notice anything i do are the ones who hate it 19:19:02 (and me) 19:19:04 And when they aren't, instead of playing it's time to complain 19:19:05 ontoclasm, your shoals tiles are getting a lot of praise! 19:19:08 well i just told him when i thought some things he made were cool 19:20:30 same for me 19:20:59 Grunt: well, it's good people like them 19:21:38 Oh by the way. 19:21:43 any ideas for the ugly thingies 19:21:49 Paul Dubois (was a short-time dev quite some time ago, also professional game developer) told me that the players are the worst part of the job. 19:21:51 I'm all out broke 19:22:14 We really are quite terrible sometimes, yes 19:22:16 Bloax: my thought was to turn down the brightness and saturation on the normal-ugly-things 19:22:19 and up on the veries 19:22:34 I'd really like to keep the vut's as they are. 19:22:36 Some of us more than others I guess, but still 19:22:38 Because muh pretty sprites. 19:22:49 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:23:49 well, i just mean the overall brightness; if you look at the screenshot i posted you can see most of them are pretty bright as monsters go 19:24:13 so the vut's could be a bit brighter and the normals a bit darker 19:24:23 * ontoclasm shrugs 19:24:45 It's not really in the nature of most video game players to want to offer very much constructive criticism I suspect, even if in principle they/we know how 19:24:51 i'm sure there are multiple ways to do it, but that's how i would 19:24:55 I'd say Searing Ray is the only bad part of newcj 19:25:04 and not due to the spell's idea but the interface 19:25:25 That's more of a newnewcj thing. 19:25:39 Searing Ray turned up a lot later than the rest of newCj. 19:25:52 yes, and really having one spell that's a bit worse or less convenient to use than the rest of the book isn't that bad a thing 19:26:12 yeah, but I'd think of it as a longer process -- it has never been a part of a stable release 19:26:31 i used it a couple of times, but it doesn't do noticeably more than 4 darts 19:26:35 kilobyte: true, but DCSS has been sporting much worse stuff (interface and balance) 19:27:11 of course! 19:27:13 and one penetrating beam at the end isn't enough to make it worth learning just for the aoe 19:27:17 is lrd's auto targeting still really awkward? 19:27:26 what I meant that newCj is almost all good 19:27:36 yes 19:27:59 newCj is certainly on par with the elementalists and those books are pretty stable good 19:28:04 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:28:08 cj would probably be one of the stronger starts even if the book had nothing but dart and battlesphere in it 19:28:14 they mostly have about the same amount of great stuff, decent stuff, and awkward stuff 19:28:32 kilobyte: yes, I understand! 19:28:35 which is fine unless every spell is actually supposed to just be similarly powerful 19:28:36 this is just dancing around the subject 19:29:28 ontoclasm: could you try and see how it'd look 19:29:34 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:38 i have a huge "doing things" problem 19:29:47 it's very painful 19:29:53 yeah, i can give it a shot 19:30:49 Is there anyone here who does not think that Forest has the potential to become an official branch? I think it's fine that branches need several cycles before they go stable, but I'd like to mail dracoomega, and I think he deserves to have devteam support. 19:31:19 not comfortable with the idea of giving someone credit for thing B that doesn't work just because they did thing A and it worked 19:31:29 not very related to forest here 19:31:52 ChrisOelmueller: well, it's not so much giving him credit as trusting him to eventually fix / improve it 19:32:22 ChrisOelmueller: I guess that sets us apart. 19:32:22 new crypt was pretty horrifing for a while there, but then it got better 19:32:44 It is a work in progress... dracoomega has shown great care to polish and balance with vaults etc. 19:33:00 Why do people like you state "forest just doesn't work" 19:33:19 dpeg: trolling 19:33:36 If there's one thing I wouldn't troll it's actually people who work on shit. 19:34:51 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:23 yes it's either trolling or looking behind the frustration to find what bothers people 19:35:26 one of those is easier 19:35:54 Saying "X doesn't work for reason Y" is useful 19:35:54 ChrisOelmueller: indeed. And it is: trolling. 19:36:03 for me and forest, the concepts behind what makes interesting monsters for that branch were an exact 0% match for my personal preferences at the time 19:36:11 blathering on and implying that devs (for example, me) are idiots, is not useful 19:36:25 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:37:04 No one is trying to make a shitty game, and few people are convinced by browbeating 19:37:36 to be fair, ChrisOelmueller did his own set of good stuff... it is just that "X sucks" should not qualify as feedback.... and definitely never over here, from dev to dev. 19:38:40 well, i've only run through forest in testing, but i've heard some of the complaints i guess 19:39:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:09 I did it before the plant-ocalypse and had no complaints 19:39:25 wellsprings are annoying. 19:39:31 the main one seems to be that forest monsters love a) summoning large numbers of trash mobs, and b) giving you control-removing statuses 19:39:39 the main complaint is "wellsprings" I think 19:39:43 I see that one a lot 19:39:57 yes, wellsprings are pretty unpleasant to fight 19:40:00 It's more specific than that, actually: 19:40:08 "STOP SUMMONING SO MANY WATER ELEMENTALS, WELLSPRING" 19:40:13 mm yes 19:40:31 Water elementals in huge quantities are pretty lifethreatening. 19:40:33 could wellsprings just come with a big band of water elementals and not summon 19:40:38 There is this, but I don't think it helped: 19:40:38 I think if you dig deeper, DracoOmega likes monster summoning in general and that is not an opinion everyone shares 19:40:40 %git 98f3daa 19:40:41 07DracoOmega02 * 0.13-a0-2569-g98f3daa: Reduce elemental wellspring hp slightly, reduce chance of summoning elementals 10(7 weeks ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98f3daa54eaf 19:40:49 Grunt: which would've happened in any case 19:40:49 ontoclasm: I really like that idea 19:41:01 s/big band/handfu;/ 19:41:01 Grunt: that commit helped noticeably 19:41:02 Now mix and match with ranged heavyhitters and pushers. 19:41:05 s/fu;/ful/ 19:41:32 i'm not trying to buy anyone's voice by patching other stuff, and certainly not looking for a +v in any way 19:42:09 I don't think it is helpful to maintain a "summoning sucks!" stance... it is a really interesting mechanic, we just have to use it cleverly (which is something Crawl was always bad at, but it has gotten better) 19:42:42 install another monster summon cap 19:42:46 i think that summons do have a fundamental flaw though 19:42:52 usually when i'm at "x sucks" it's rather "why do x at all" or "why would x be a good idea ever" after reading up on recent commits and find it's not documented anywhere 19:42:55 people do not like to fight something that gives no rewards 19:43:08 they probably feel cheated or like they wasted time to do so 19:43:18 mikee_: yes, but summoning can be done differently (confer Vaults) 19:43:29 yes, the no rewards part is irritating and fighting everything + the summoner usually feels like it is much less rewarding as a whole than it "should" be 19:43:36 you mean like what convokers do 19:43:40 yes 19:43:42 the thing is DracoOmega figured out some interesting ways to do summoning 19:43:45 cough, cough, druids 19:43:47 sure, that's a good way 19:43:54 What if summons popped when the summoner died? 19:43:59 and some of those are good 19:44:08 dpeg: i proposed making all summoners summon like convokers at one point 19:44:10 bh: I think that is generally a good idea... or they are treated as "warded" etc. 19:44:15 but then some of his designs also just have classic monster summoning and that's less good 19:44:33 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 19:45:04 SwissStopwatch: I know, and it might be a dead end (in the sense that stable Forest will never feature these)... I just think that an active dev like Draco should get more leeway. If he comes up with four good ideas for every bad one, Crawl will move forward. 19:45:39 even 1 good to 4 bad is still pretty decent 19:46:23 on the topic of forest there's also the communication by which (1) let's redesign crypt (2) let's not allow players to test that in 50% of their games (3) instead throw a unstable branch at them 19:46:29 He actually has had some success with tweaking his designs too, anyway... like I think current treants are a lot better than the previous iteration 19:46:31 at least one of those didn't help feedback i would imagine 19:47:31 Did draco set Forest 100% chance? 19:47:41 -!- rapierx has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:47:44 -!- Twinge has quit [] 19:47:50 no, it alternates with crypt 19:47:53 dpeg: after the 13 branch is cut, I'd like to try removing items from the abyss 19:48:29 bh: anti-scumming policy? 19:48:46 yep. Infinite areas should not have infinite stuff 19:49:00 I might also be OK with reducing the item spawn rate over time 19:49:07 isn't pan more of an offender there, if that happens 19:49:16 yes, Pan is 19:49:31 pan is definitely worse, although at least both places also try fairly hard to destroy items 19:49:40 there have been lots of suggestions of ways of making pan finite 19:49:47 bh: I'd advise to discuss with elliptic and folks. Also, before he left, Erik told me that controlled scumming (mummies, Pan) should always have a place in Crawl. I never did that, and I am not really convinced, but these were his words :) 19:49:53 IMO at some point we should pick one and try it out :P 19:50:02 well scumming around new pan is not very fun, now that approximately 50% of it are neqoxecs 19:50:08 yes 19:50:13 elliptic: I would like to see it... but it should be done by folks who frequently visit Pan. 19:50:15 the new pan monster set is rather boring and samey 19:50:20 id like to see it changed in some way 19:50:49 I don't really see the issue with people scumming in super-late game; if they want to bore themselves after they've already won the game, I don't see why they shouldn't 19:50:51 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:50:55 possibly taking out a lot of the wimpy stuff and replacing it with actual threatening things would be good? 19:51:04 SwissStopwatch: that already happened 19:51:05 well that's what happened 19:51:09 thats why its the way it is now 19:51:20 ogaz: need to encourage players to start new games to boost our gamecount for stats 19:51:25 for pan to be as interesting as possible it needs to actually not be pandemonium anymore imo 19:51:30 stuff like imps and other boring monsters dont show up, but the problem is now all you see are the same 3's and 4's 19:51:39 I also consider neqoxecs to be such is the thing 19:51:45 like the very word implies monotony 19:51:53 which arent very threatening (just a _lot_ of mutation chances at this point which i actually dislike doing pan without rmut now) 19:51:59 demonic rune changes... 19:52:02 though actually pan having infinitely many levels isn't really the biggest scummable thing about pan 19:52:11 <|amethyst> add multiple tiers of pan lords 19:52:19 the biggest is that monster generation is fast and doesn't stop and has very predictable monsters 19:52:22 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 19:52:33 see: sky scumming pan for 200k turns with macros and crystal spear 19:53:42 perhaps we need some kind of vision for Pan, especially to make Pan completion and Zig completion different things (assuming both are finite, and both stay) 19:54:18 pan vestibule 19:55:26 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:55:41 honestly I sort of agree with mikee_ that it is hard to make pan acceptably interesting and non-scummy and still have it be pan... I wonder how bad an idea it would be to just remove pan and move the content there (mainly pan lords) to hell somehow 19:55:57 speaking of the vestibule, what's the point of geryon and his horn? 19:56:27 ogaz: probably just a relic no one has bothered to change 19:56:29 maybe the zigs should move to D instead 19:56:40 but yeah sounds interesting 19:56:46 I would guess that it's to keep you out of the big strong hells if you're too weak to even handle Geryon maybe 19:56:53 ogaz: so you'd remove the horn? 19:57:02 elliptic: couldn't we have several finite additional branches (i.e. hells and pan), as long as they differ enough? 19:57:02 like, hells 1-6 could have random pan lords (obviously called hell lords now) and hells 7 could rotate between two different uniques (so that we don't waste Cerebov etc) 19:57:12 kilobyte: I think so 19:57:22 kilobyte: why not? just kill geryon and let the hells open after that. the only use for the horn has been troves which is actually kinda neat 19:57:29 SwissStopwatch: I went into tomb the first time I saw it because I didn't know any better 19:57:41 dpeg: sure, that's also possible... I'm not really convinced that we have enough content for that though at the moment, given that they are both so demon-heavy 19:57:46 the problem with my guess is hell isn't even the worst place you can wander into yes 19:57:50 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:57:51 anyway, those were just some radical ideas 19:58:13 having the pan lords as hell bosses might ruin the naming scheme a bit, if that matters 19:58:54 I have no idea how much the existing thematic parts of... anything, I guess... matter 19:58:56 SwissStopwatch: okay, that's true 19:59:46 could have cerebov etc show up somewhere else then, not the final level... like, they could guard stair vaults in the middle of hells or something :P 20:01:02 I'd suggest a hell lord and pan lord tagteam but that would be kind of unfair really 20:01:18 haha 20:01:20 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 20:01:20 cerebov and asmo 20:01:47 double the runes, double the fun 20:01:53 yeah how many characters could handle that without doing something super degenerate 20:02:05 <|amethyst> we have 29 different 1s through 4s, not counting Ignacio; that seems like an awfully small number of variations to support half the game 20:02:07 can you enslave one and make it fight the other 20:02:21 I think all of them have immune MR now 20:02:25 no no no you just get cerebov to anger asmodeus with fire storms 20:02:25 |amethyst: well, it currently isn't really half the game 20:02:27 cerebov doesn't 20:02:32 |amethyst: just more than half of the runes 20:02:38 mmm enslave cerebov 20:03:03 which is why I sort of like going down to 10 runes max and removing pan... but I don't expect other people to agree :P 20:03:05 monster in-fighting solely for the lords because the power situation is already fragile 20:03:06 of course, considering the whole playerbase, basically nobody ever enters hells or pan :) 20:03:36 elliptic: well, if Pan was just a slideshow of the four special levels, it'd be better? 20:03:43 Either because they're terrified or because they just don't feel like it 20:03:49 the terrified part is kind of important though 20:03:56 SwissStopwatch: because players don't win at all 20:04:07 yes there's that 20:04:13 !lg * won / urune>3 20:04:13 7439/13824 games for * (won): N=7439/13824 (53.81%) 20:04:25 you wouldn't notice if you hang out on ##crawl or SA etc. but your typical Crawl player has never seen Zot 20:04:26 !lg * won urune>3 / urune=15 20:04:26 2835/7439 games for * (won urune>3): N=2835/7439 (38.11%) 20:04:35 ... I guess 15 is a bad statistic there. 20:04:36 !lg * won urune>1 20:04:36 13721. goku the Farming Infernalist (L27 DjFE), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2013-09-15 00:37:36, with 1703856 points after 284793 turns and 23:43:23. 20:04:37 yeah, I'm aware most people don't win 20:04:42 !lg * / urune>0 20:04:44 30596/2549099 games for *: N=30596/2549099 (1.20%) 20:04:47 !lg * won / urune>1 20:04:48 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:48 13721/13824 games for * (won): N=13721/13824 (99.25%) 20:04:50 Grunt: add to that that most people play offline 20:04:59 erm? 20:05:09 It is an easy thing to forget occasionally, but then again it's hard to get feedback from most people to begin with, right 20:05:47 can you put cv>=0.9 or something if you are going to do these queries 20:05:53 !lg * recent / urune>0 20:05:54 11934/753112 games for * (recent): N=11934/753112 (1.58%) 20:05:55 since they aren't very meaningful before that 20:06:07 !lg * recent won urune>1 20:06:07 4852. goku the Farming Infernalist (L27 DjFE), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2013-09-15 00:37:36, with 1703856 points after 284793 turns and 23:43:23. 20:06:12 !lg * recent won / urune>1 20:06:13 4852/4852 games for * (recent won): N=4852/4852 (100.00%) 20:06:17 SwissStopwatch: yes, and I am all in favour of making the extended game cooler for the diehard players ... but adding an early vault/unique/etc. is something many more players will see (think thousands vs dozens :) 20:06:22 that query looks broken 20:06:28 what query 20:06:33 Grunts 20:06:39 ? 20:06:41 ...which query? 20:06:45 I didn't make just one query. :b 20:06:45 needing two or more runes to win? 20:06:46 he just did like 5 queries, yes :P 20:06:53 -!- petete_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:07:18 ah... 20:07:27 hmmm, freshening up the earlygame 20:07:29 !lg * recent !won urune>1 20:07:29 4936. NAKTA the Executioner (L24 DsFi), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, slain by a sixfirhy on Abyss:4 on 2013-09-15 00:55:18, with 548824 points after 78473 turns and 7:18:07. 20:07:32 !lg * recent won urune>1 20:07:33 4852. goku the Farming Infernalist (L27 DjFE), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2013-09-15 00:37:36, with 1703856 points after 284793 turns and 23:43:23. 20:07:41 SwissStopwatch: by spawning panlord levels instead of temple 20:08:03 <|amethyst> !lg * recent urune>1 / won 20:08:04 4852/9788 games for * (recent urune>1): N=4852/9788 (49.57%) 20:08:09 btw why are you querying urune>1 anyway 20:08:13 !lg * recent urune>0 / won 20:08:13 4852/11934 games for * (recent urune>0): N=4852/11934 (40.66%) 20:08:13 it seems like a weird number 20:08:23 to insist on 2 runes rather than 1 or 3 20:08:39 yes, Gloorx Vloq welcoming you to the Ecumenical Temple 20:08:51 !lm * uniq=gloorx_vloq min=xl 20:08:51 3577. [2013-07-17 07:34:12] Spectrina the Martial Artist (L9 DrCK) killed Gloorx Vloq on turn 5416. (D:7) 20:09:02 would be a good incentive to fix some of the names too 20:09:07 |amethyst: does the feature freeze apply to vaults? 20:09:13 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:09:31 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:32 Fixing or repairing vaults, no; *adding* vaults, yes. 20:09:36 I wonder how early a gargoyle can reliably kill gloorx 20:09:45 <|amethyst> well, adding some vaults might not be so bad 20:09:51 !lm * uniq=gloorx_vloq min=xl -tv 20:09:52 3577. Spectrina, XL9 DrCK, T:5416 (milestone) requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 20:09:55 <|amethyst> but definitely not something like a branch ending or an encompass vault 20:10:00 I don't think vaults should be added in after a feature freeze; it doesn't give sufficient time to test them. 20:10:21 since gargoyles are highly resistant to almost everything gloorx does after all 20:10:29 removing vaults after feature freeze is also acceptable IMO 20:10:58 I consider "removing vaults" to be part of "repairing vaults", if it's necessary. 20:11:07 ??michael 20:11:07 michael[1/1]: 34 games for * (ckiller=~michael): 12x 0.4, 10x 0.2, 9x 0.5, 0.3, 0.5-a, 0.4-a 20:11:13 speaking of vaults 20:11:19 theres this one vault that keeps appearing 20:11:21 unknown monster: "micahel" 20:11:21 %??micahel 20:11:25 unknown monster: "michael" 20:11:25 %??michael 20:11:27 its 100% in my games so far, infact more than once 20:11:36 Why is there Michael in a 0.13 game? 20:11:53 is there really? 20:11:54 <|amethyst> !lg * ckiller=~michael s=killer 20:11:55 34 games for * (ckiller=~michael): 34x Michael 20:11:59 or was that an ancient tty? 20:12:05 bh: what makes you think there was? 20:12:10 maybe ill show Grunt because i dont remember the name but its kinda ridiculous how it always show up. its one solid rock/crystal/etc walls surrounded by a square of water 20:12:16 elliptic: nevermind. I was confused 20:12:18 the footv that was just queried is ancient, yes 20:12:36 maybe now that i think about it, it could be one of the dungeon generation thingies (i cant think of any terms right now sorry) 20:12:43 how does an XL9 character kill gloorx 20:12:43 so what was this gloorx bug? I missed it at the time 20:12:46 ever 20:12:53 well it wasn't *really* gloorx 20:12:54 I don't think it was a bug 20:12:59 She hit him with a chaos weapon 20:12:59 uh 20:13:12 gloorx being on D:7 is a bug 20:13:15 at the very least 20:13:18 oh, sure 20:13:22 gloorx wielding a weapon is also a bug 20:13:26 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:13:32 People should be less fixated on feature freeze: who cares in the long run if your fancy new stuff goes into stable now, or in a few months? All the cool guys play trunk anyway. 20:13:40 hi 20:13:41 mm was that the thing where a lot of monster data got garbled maybe 20:13:43 someone messed up with enums and broke save compat; "Gloorx" was actually Ijyb 20:13:51 ha! 20:13:52 (So yes: after the freeze, not even vaults should go into stable) 20:14:43 geekosaur: yeah, I figured it was something like that 20:18:01 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:26:47 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:36 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:29:32 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 20:29:53 -!- enygmata has quit [Quit: zzz] 20:33:34 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-3059-g1d58cb5: Improve some citations. 10(21 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d58cb504a62 20:33:51 Bloax: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/uglytest2.png 20:33:59 ? 20:33:59 speaking of new features, I think my automagic patch is COMPLETE!!! https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7488 20:34:25 !hs * cewz 20:34:26 506. Yunor the Conqueror (L27 CeWz), worshipper of Xom, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2011-08-25 19:55:07, with 13070683 points after 120903 turns and 9:37:19. 20:34:38 oops, sorry 20:34:53 ontoclasm: Just keep the vut like they were. 20:35:00 The uglies look good. 20:36:37 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 20:36:53 Naruni: sorry that I never comment on this ... I am not even using autofight. 20:36:56 * dpeg is really old 20:37:09 An ancient dpeg comes into view. The ancient dpeg shouts! 20:37:33 dpeg: no worries :) i've been able to contribute in other ways thanks to your advice 20:37:40 awesome 20:37:58 ??automagic 20:37:59 I don't have a page labeled automagic in my learndb. 20:38:54 !learn add automagic https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7488 20:38:55 automagic[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7488 20:39:14 !learn del automagic 20:39:15 Deleted automagic[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7488 20:39:30 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:39:42 maybe im just crazy but i really want this feature. seeing as how i like magic users. 20:41:13 Bloax: okay 20:45:23 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.13-a0-3060-g5a62039: Ugly things (Bloax, 7483) 10(25 seconds ago, 12 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5a62039309a9 20:48:34 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:49:02 i think the only edit i made to VUTs was fixing their outlines 20:49:06 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:49:11 since they weren't solid black 20:50:42 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:56:51 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:58:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:07:55 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:08:38 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:46 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 21:10:17 -!- Roarke has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:07 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:11:22 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 21:11:45 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:22:20 -!- Roarke has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:45 -!- rapierx has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:29:51 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:08 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 21:31:01 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:31:21 1 21:32:55 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:59 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 21:38:43 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:40:06 -!- Fusha has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:41:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:44:43 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:53 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:08 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:40 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 22:00:46 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:53 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:43 -!- lunarharp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:07:18 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:37 -!- Utis` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:17 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:30:14 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:00 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:35:11 -!- sumguy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:38:32 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:50:45 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:46 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 22:53:20 -!- jeffro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:54 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:05 -!- Flex has quit [] 23:02:03 -!- petete_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:18 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:05:21 if we're feature frozen, should we cut the branch? 23:12:15 Dazzling Spray targeting is confusing when an enemy is just out of range by savageorange 23:13:44 <|amethyst> we still need to disable whatever is going to be disabled 23:13:44 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.12.2-36-gdb43a97 23:13:47 <|amethyst> %git 6cbdf9d59 23:13:49 07|amethyst02 * 0.13-a0-1597-g6cbdf9d: Don't disable LO on release (gammafunk) 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6cbdf9d59257 23:14:04 <|amethyst> reverting that and possibly applying it to more things 23:15:17 fr undisable elves 23:15:34 ontoclasm: wut? 23:15:52 <|amethyst> death to the land merfolk! 23:15:57 ontoclasm: I read that as "an elf you can't dis" in the sense of an insult 23:16:03 gammafunk: same 23:16:17 an elf so hard that your putdowns don't hurt it? 23:16:35 The elf taunts "Sticks and stone my break my bones..." 23:16:43 <|amethyst> Obviously it's an elf that can't be banished to the iron hell branch 23:16:47 gammafunk: you dropped a letter 23:17:07 SamB: Oh, it's diss? 23:17:19 <|amethyst> gammafunk: "sticks and stones" 23:17:27 s/my/may/ 23:17:40 <|amethyst> oh, I didn't even notice that one 23:17:47 ... 23:17:49 SamB: I'm an undisable elf, so your spelling corrections don't hurt me 23:17:54 <|amethyst> Y Kant Gammafunk Type 23:17:57 fr disposable elves 23:18:05 oh wait 23:18:08 We already disposed of the disposable elves. 23:18:23 I thought they were superfluous elves 23:18:47 is sticks-to-snakes'ing a rod a bug? 23:18:58 ug, it's such a pain, whatever it is 23:18:59 Does it give a subtractor snake? 23:19:00 <_< 23:19:14 see also STS on a magical staff 23:19:16 it should give a snake with spells 23:19:18 you should get a really awesome snake, possibly (in some cases) a unique 23:19:34 anaconda of fridig destruction 23:19:41 I turned my energy staff to a mocassin on vaults:5 23:19:42 lightning anaconda 23:19:49 I really don't think anyone wants that. 23:19:52 gammafunk: was that a accident? 23:20:02 ??subtractor snake 23:20:03 subtractor snake[1/1]: Zot-exclusive snake that resembled a speed 18 lower-hp klown without blinking. An extinct species. 23:20:11 r.i.p. 23:20:16 SamB: Yes 23:20:18 I think there's a report for the sticks-to-snake thing on Mantis. 23:20:33 at the very least it should prompt for rods 23:20:35 <|amethyst> there's also a flamewar about it in Tavern 23:20:42 since they're pretty valuable 23:20:44 ontoclasm: yes 23:20:45 What isn't there a flamewar about in Tavern? 23:20:50 |amethyst: that statement is true for all values of it 23:20:52 <|amethyst> should it prompt for lajatangs? 23:20:56 :'( 23:21:02 * ontoclasm shrugs 23:21:08 |amethyst: lajatangs are sticks too? 23:21:10 probably yes 23:21:21 Your +0,+0 lajatang feels slithery for a moment! 23:21:26 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:28 <|amethyst> hm, guess not 23:21:32 thank god. 23:21:44 Clearly it gives a blade snake. 23:21:46 <_< 23:21:53 anyway whatever prompting is added should check to see if it's even snakable before prompting ... 23:21:58 razor boa 23:22:05 just, you know, in case 23:22:35 <|amethyst> So, !D autoinscriptions? 23:22:58 I'm really in favor of just making it not work on things other than arrows and bolts 23:23:12 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 23:23:17 It doesn't work on bolts, though. 23:23:28 Soner: my point stands. 23:23:57 hey, no need to quarrel about it 23:24:18 GAH 23:24:19 * Grunt applauds ontoclasm. 23:24:20 the PUNS 23:24:38 we don't even HAVE QUARRELS in this game 23:24:51 why not? 23:24:53 <|amethyst> we do, we just call them the wrong thing :) 23:25:18 jpeg appears to have written a bunch of this code three years ago 23:25:37 cute. you can sticks-to-snakes a blowgun 23:25:49 and demon tridents 23:26:13 Does that give a three-headed snake? 23:26:15 What about trishulas? 23:26:20 bh: what did you do, spawn one of everything and search for sticks? 23:26:40 <|amethyst> I don't like the idea of restricting it to only work on plentiful items, but I do think it should scale better with its inputs 23:26:54 <|amethyst> OTOH, that's probably too powerful for an L2 23:27:10 SamB: _snakable_weapon 23:27:11 |amethyst: that depends on how easy it is to come by the inputs? 23:27:21 or doesn't it? 23:27:42 Clearly have quarterstaves give anacondas and rods give guardian serpents. 23:27:43 <_< 23:27:52 |amethyst: what if we make it always prompt on anything that isn't obviously crap? 23:27:52 I mean the components are already a cost ... 23:28:14 <|amethyst> SamB: well, you can stockpile a not insignificant number of staves and quarterstaves 23:28:15 SamB: we killed off that potion eating spell that should not be named 23:28:21 <|amethyst> and if you weren't going to use them anyway 23:28:32 well, you can't extract quarterstaves from corpses 23:28:40 |amethyst: well I figured those were pretty far on the "crap" end 23:28:55 <|amethyst> SamB: currently are, yes 23:29:00 rods are probably rare enough that you can't really scum for them 23:29:05 I didn't think we had any inclination to move them 23:29:21 <|amethyst> taking branding into account (beyond the current poisoned upgrade) maybe 23:29:41 <|amethyst> rods should give guardian serpents :) 23:29:51 I *just* said that :b 23:30:06 <|amethyst> oh, so you did 23:30:27 |amethyst: so, no need to upgrade quarterstaff and plain, non-magick staff 23:30:49 (are the latter gone now?) 23:30:59 <|amethyst> they should be, yes 23:31:03 They're gone, yes. 23:31:06 <|amethyst> I certainly haven't seen one in forever 23:31:09 enhancers should perhaps do SOMETHING interesting 23:31:12 They only still exist in the code as the base item for enhancer staves. 23:31:22 enhancer -> guardian serpent too <_< 23:31:30 (Olgreb turns into Aizul if you haven't seen him yet.) 23:31:42 how about a snakes to sticks spell 23:31:50 ??snakes to sticks 23:31:51 I don't have a page labeled snakes_to_sticks in my learndb. 23:31:53 aww 23:32:01 ??snake to stick 23:32:01 I don't have a page labeled snake_to_stick in my learndb. 23:32:15 * SamB could have sworn there was a page called t hat ... 23:32:18 There's a Xom effect for that. 23:32:23 ??rocks to jocks 23:32:24 I don't have a page labeled rocks_to_jocks in my learndb. 23:32:29 Dazzling Spray targeter is spammily confused by glass walls by savageorange 23:33:50 xom should be able to cast stone to flesh, too 23:34:12 what happens if you play gargoyle and he does that 23:34:21 you turn into a human 23:34:26 You die... 23:34:31 it's like a badform 23:34:35 temporary transmutation? 23:34:41 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:34:44 humanform 23:34:57 maybe fleshgoyle 23:35:07 humanform is pretty good if you get human apts 23:35:22 and slots 23:36:53 |amethyst: automagic is done #7488 23:38:20 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:25 |amethyst: also, i was reading beam.cc a little more closely. apparently whoever wrote all those string comparisons did it for a reason because i noticed on a few occasions the proper comparison type is used (spell_origin == SPELL_FOO). The thing that is very odd to me is that the monster spells seem to be mislabeled 23:40:13 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 23:40:23 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:41:44 for instance, mon-spll.cc has case SPELL_MEPHITIC_CLOUD giving the beam property beam.name = "foul vapour" when later a death drake's miasma breath is described the same way 23:42:00 either way, i'd think a meph. cloud' 23:42:37 meph. cloud's beam name should be "mephitic" and a miasma cloud's beam name should be miasma regardless of who is casting/throwing it 23:44:01 <|amethyst> I don't think "mephitic" is a good beam name 23:44:14 <|amethyst> but yeah, the monster version maybe should be "stinking cloud" 23:44:16 so yeah. beam.cc and mon-cast.cc are really strange 23:44:43 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-3060-g5a62039 (34) 23:45:01 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 23:45:15 why different than poisonous cloud, is that to help the player discern the difference between poison and possible confusion? 23:45:16 <|amethyst> also, there's the question of whether spell_origin is even set in some of those cases 23:45:52 <|amethyst> they're two completely different effects 23:46:09 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:42 <|amethyst> note that the beam name shows up in death messages etc 23:46:59 !lg * killer=blast 23:47:00 <|amethyst> so it is good for it to be distinct 23:47:00 No games for * (killer=blast). 23:47:05 !lg * ckiller=blast 23:47:05 No games for * (ckiller=blast). 23:47:13 <|amethyst> !lg * kaux~~blast s=kaux 23:47:14 9225 games for * (kaux~~blast): 3685x blast of flame, 1220x blast of negative energy, 1219x blast of hellfire, 909x blast of cold, 622x blast of fiery breath, 278x rocky blast, 189x chilling blast, 188x freezing blast, 171x great blast of fire, 136x blast of poison, 125x searing blast, 105x blast of icy breath, 78x blast of rock fragments, 69x great blast of cold, 50x blast of draining breath, 48x... 23:47:22 <|amethyst> !lg * kaux~~foul s=kaux 23:47:23 360 games for * (kaux~~foul): 217x foul vapour, 143x foul pestilence 23:47:31 <|amethyst> !lg * kaux~~nox s=kaux 23:47:32 1610 games for * (kaux~~nox): 1610x noxious fumes 23:47:50 looks like foul pestilence and foul vapour are the same 23:48:04 !lg * kaux~~miasma s=kaux 23:48:05 25 games for * (kaux~~miasma): 25x dark miasma 23:48:05 i think foul pestilence sounds more ominous 23:48:20 !lg * kaux~~miasma ckiller=it 23:48:21 2. Alethiolet the Skirmisher (L1 DjAK), worshipper of Lugonu, succumbed to its dark miasma on D:1 (tarquinn_simple_flora_water_a) on 2013-05-30 06:52:01, with 20 points after 42 turns and 0:00:44. 23:48:21 <|amethyst> foul pestilence is dying from walking around in miasma 23:48:59 <|amethyst> foul vapour is dying to the impact damage from monster meph or miasma breath 23:49:09 huh 23:50:13 so i might actually try breaking down beam.cc a little more, but im not sure if that is in line with what you guys are trying to do, i gathered bug-squashing fever was in the air 23:50:18 not code re-writes 23:50:30 well if we're in code freeze 23:50:36 it's bugfix season 23:51:12 k 23:51:15 cya guys 23:52:26 <|amethyst> just god some good use out of newimmolation ♥ 23:52:55 <|amethyst> the sheep were nice enough to stand between me and the death yaks