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VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:53:46 i just got a strange error. picked random on trunk, gave me human death knight, i hit yes and then it says something like "incompatible weapons file error. press enter to exit." and kicks me out of the game 00:54:16 i forgot to save the specific text but i went back and human death knights work fine if you select them yourself. doesn't seem like a big deal, just strange. 00:54:17 lessens: I think that happens sometimes if you use tab to pick random 00:54:52 or at least that was my rationalization 00:55:04 when I had the same thing happen 00:55:20 ah yes, i did use tab 00:55:48 because it was trying to re-use a weapon choice from a previous start 00:56:10 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:14 hm 00:56:14 that makes perfect sense because i just played a DEGl using a quarterstaff 00:56:41 now I do think it's probably a bug 00:56:44 clearly never use qstaves 00:56:55 I mean it's certainly not a NICE thing 01:02:18 -!- elliptic has 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[Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:07 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:54 -!- Hayden2e has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:54:44 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:16 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:02:37 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:14:48 -!- Zicher has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:17:02 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:20:38 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:26:22 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:18 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:37:48 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 05:40:04 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:46:42 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:57 -!- enygmata has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:48 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:57 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:15 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:28 <|amethyst> lessens, SamB: #7131 is the report in Mantis 07:11:16 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:17:42 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:47 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:27:12 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:02 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 07:36:05 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2927-g373a2cc: Look for bogus monster types in dbg-scan.cc 10(59 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=373a2cc9899e 07:36:05 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2928-geba34da: End a starcursed mass' turn when it uses its ability. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eba34da7686d 07:38:27 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:39:43 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:43:30 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 07:50:27 -!- Zicher has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:53:52 -!- hart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:52 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:01:00 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:54 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:46 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 08:28:40 -!- Fusha has quit [Quit: !] 08:43:59 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 08:46:57 Long artifact name wrapped into next line in the item (i command) screen by nagdon 08:46:57 -!- ninthbox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:55:50 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:16 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:05 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:30 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:04:10 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Client Quit] 09:05:05 -!- sdfg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:08:48 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 09:17:16 Mara and rakshasas are described twice by nagdon 09:19:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:43 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:21 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:33 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:41 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:26:00 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:12 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:23 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:13 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:31:25 -!- Ploo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:35:35 -!- drugnatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:48:20 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:48 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:25 !lg * god=Fedhas 09:49:26 7183. Wahaha the Insei (L5 HuSu), worshipper of Fedhas, succumbed to a worker ant's poison on D:4 on 2013-09-03 14:19:17, with 341 points after 4126 turns and 0:20:13. 09:49:34 !lg * god=Fedhas v=0.12 09:49:34 No games for * (god=Fedhas v=0.12). 09:49:37 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:22 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 09:51:07 !lg * god=Fedhas cv=0.12 09:51:08 466. nattilypf the Vexing (L3 SpEn), worshipper of Fedhas, slain by a worm on D:2 on 2013-09-01 01:15:26, with 91 points after 1237 turns and 0:08:43. 09:51:13 dpeg: looking for something? 09:51:29 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:52:24 Grunt: yes, someone said on the forum that "nobody plays Fedhas" and then suggests a number of changes :) 09:52:35 Thanks for help, I'd be totally lost without you! 09:52:45 Somebody saying "nobody plays Fedhas" obviously hasn't played Fedhas :) 09:53:11 !lg * cv=0.12 s=god 09:53:11 101780 games for * (cv=0.12): 64999x, 9249x Trog, 4989x Okawaru, 2878x Vehumet, 2480x Lugonu, 2320x Yredelemnul, 2185x Xom, 1828x Sif Muna, 1712x Beogh, 1482x Makhleb, 1168x Ashenzari, 1157x Nemelex Xobeh, 1124x Zin, 1010x Kikubaaqudgha, 1001x Elyvilon, 850x Cheibriados, 749x The Shining One, 466x Fedhas, 133x Jiyva 09:53:17 !lg * won cv=0.12 s=god 09:53:18 835 games for * (won cv=0.12): 139x Trog, 106x Vehumet, 98x The Shining One, 97x Okawaru, 56x Makhleb, 47x Sif Muna, 43x Ashenzari, 35x Kikubaaqudgha, 31x Lugonu, 29x Jiyva, 26x, 23x Beogh, 18x Cheibriados, 17x Nemelex Xobeh, 16x Elyvilon, 16x Zin, 16x Yredelemnul, 12x Xom, 10x Fedhas 09:54:27 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:56:26 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:56:33 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:16 -!- axujen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:39 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:41 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:26 -!- axujen has quit [Client Quit] 10:00:46 the statement seems to be not entirely inaccurate 10:01:11 alefury: I'd be happy to see your reply to my reply :) 10:01:37 i just meant the "nobody plays fedhas" bit 10:01:43 hell, i never played fedhas 10:01:48 literally never 10:02:46 alefury: I understood what you mean 10:03:29 !lg dpeg fedhas 10:03:29 38. dpeg the Cloud Mage (L12 OpAE), worshipper of Fedhas, slain by a giant frog on D:9 on 2013-05-14 22:21:26, with 17142 points after 20578 turns and 1:08:32. 10:03:34 !lg . fedhas 10:03:35 25. SGrunt the Force of Nature (L27 HESk), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-04-17 16:55:28, with 1305845 points after 131162 turns and 7:17:53. 10:04:21 !lg . won fedhas 10:04:22 1. dpeg the Petrodigitator (L27 DsEE), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-11-12 23:07:24, with 1238321 points after 171282 turns and 11:45:42. 10:04:48 !lg * won fedhas s=sk 10:04:48 166 games for * (won fedhas): 26x Invocations, 21x Dodging, 18x Unarmed Combat, 15x Fighting, 15x Polearms, 13x Bows, 7x Maces & Flails, 7x Spellcasting, 5x Evocations, 4x Armour, 4x Air Magic, 4x Stealth, 4x Short Blades, 4x Ice Magic, 4x Conjurations, 3x Earth Magic, 2x Shields, 2x Long Blades, 2x Fire Magic, Slings, Stabbing, Crossbows, Axes, Charms, Necromancy 10:05:27 I generally prefer gods where I don't have to use the active abilities so much, and Fedhas doesn't do much passively, I think that's why I never tried him. 10:05:46 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:27 alefury: yes, Fedhas is not a laidback god. 10:06:48 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:51 The gold god will be, though, almost as much as Ashenzari, I'd say. 10:06:52 Passive Fedhasing: set up oklob farm, tt, wait for level to be cleared. 10:07:03 lol 10:07:24 Works especially well on V:$ in combination with Mark, or on Zot:5. 10:07:28 can you get more laid back than the god of 'take it easy' 10:07:35 Grunt: I am pretty certain that oklobs can deal with orbs of fire -- a poster in the thread shows a screenshot where the orb is unharmed. Bad luck, or a change I am not aware of? 10:07:53 It's tricky to fight orbs of fire with oklobs, but doable. 10:08:05 Grunt: that sounds like it should be 10:08:12 !lm . orb fedhas -tv:<15:x3:channel=zotdeftv 10:08:12 1. SGrunt, XL27 HESk, T:129904 (milestone) requested for zotdeftv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:08:13 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 9248 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 10:08:13 <|amethyst> %??orb of fire 10:08:25 ??termcast 10:08:26 termcast[1/6]: telnet termcast.develz.org -- do not SSH. Public termcast server: telnet termcast.org. The software needed to stream to the termcast server can be installed by "cpan -i App::Termcast" 10:08:31 oklob plant (09P) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 560 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 10:08:32 %??oklob plant 10:08:40 I think this may have started too late? 10:08:43 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:08:49 Oh. 10:08:50 There we go. 10:09:03 a nice little forest you have planted there 10:09:27 Right, I was going to improve the Growth interface at some point. 10:10:06 Grunt: if you have ideas, please do it! 10:10:46 !lm . orb fedhas -tv:<25:x3:channel=zotdeftv 10:10:47 1. SGrunt, XL27 HESk, T:129904 (milestone) requested for zotdeftv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:11:14 IIRC this farm killed at least three orbs of fire. 10:11:32 One. 10:11:48 Well, that's two that the TV shows... 10:12:05 I think there was one more before that start point? 10:13:11 !lm . rune=silver fedhas -tv:<15:x3:channel=zotdeftv 10:13:12 3. SGrunt, XL27 HESk, T:123909 (milestone) requested for zotdeftv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:13:39 fedhas would be a lot more fun if crawl were a tower defense game or if you didn't have to try playing crawl as if it were a tower defense game 10:13:55 !lm . rune=silver fedhas -tv:<15:x3:channel=zotdeftv:cancel 10:13:56 3. SGrunt, XL27 HESk, T:123909 (milestone) cancel requested for zotdeftv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:14:00 !lm . rune=silver fedhas -tv:<25:x3:channel=zotdeftv 10:14:01 3. SGrunt, XL27 HESk, T:123909 (milestone) requested for zotdeftv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:14:11 I appreciate the change of pace it provides. 10:14:22 !lm . rune=silver fedhas -tv:<25:x3:channel=zotdeftv:cancel 10:14:22 3. SGrunt, XL27 HESk, T:123909 (milestone) cancel requested for zotdeftv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:14:26 Eronarn: we use some of our gods to modify the rules 10:14:33 !lm . rune=silver fedhas -tv:<35:x3:channel=zotdeftv 10:14:33 3. SGrunt, XL27 HESk, T:123909 (milestone) requested for zotdeftv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:14:45 !lm . rune=silver fedhas -tv:<35:x3:channel=zotdeftv:cancel 10:14:46 3. SGrunt, XL27 HESk, T:123909 (milestone) cancel requested for zotdeftv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:14:49 !lm . hesk fedhas br.end=vaults 10:14:50 1. [2013-04-17 15:58:33] SGrunt the Force of Nature (L26 HESk) reached level 5 of the Vaults on turn 118750. (Vaults:5) 10:14:55 dpeg: sure, but many gods can be used effectively in multiple ways 10:14:56 !lm . hesk fedhas rune=silver 10:14:56 1. [2013-04-17 16:19:12] SGrunt the Force of Nature (L27 HESk) found a silver rune of Zot on turn 123909. (Vaults:5) 10:15:06 with fedhas it's oklob farming or merfolk drowning 10:15:07 !lg . hesk fedhas -TV:123909:x3:channel=zotdeftv 10:15:08 15. SGrunt, XL27 HESk, T:131162 requested for zotdeftv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:15:16 or spores, if you are crazy 10:15:26 Don't forget mushrooms! 10:15:32 the mushrooms are effective 10:15:41 only for a limited part of the game 10:15:49 for the most important part of the game 10:15:51 The most important part of the game! 10:16:25 I've never been bold enough to consistently use the spores... should fire up Fedhas next time. 10:16:37 Play a HESk of Fedhas. 10:17:56 will do 10:19:56 one of these days i'll have time to implement pact god.......... 10:19:59 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:20:05 ah, pact god 10:20:26 ...as opposed to Pac god. 10:20:34 ...will never be really popular though: blood will be permanent cost even more despised than fruits 10:20:34 <|amethyst> Grunt: that's Nemelex 10:20:36 We already have one of those anyway-- 10:20:37 Yes. 10:20:46 * Grunt gestures at |amethyst. |amethyst is devoured by a tear in reality. 10:21:07 * Bloaxor calls forth a greater servant of Makhleb 10:21:13 dpeg: i wrote up an alternative somewhere... one based around running into events in the game instead 10:21:18 BLOOD AND SOULS 10:21:21 like, 'eat your first dragon heart (corpse)' 10:21:25 Hey, we need an arena mode for gods. 10:21:38 Eronarn: yes, will make it more amenable 10:21:40 stuff you are nearly guaranteed to get eventually, but not necessarily on schedule 10:21:44 dpeg, reminds me of back when I implemented all the god abilities for monsters and pitted their followers against each other. 10:21:52 and if you 'take' that event's pact, you lose out on other options 10:22:20 <|amethyst> Grunt: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2437 10:22:37 Grunt: and reminds when I tried to design a post-Crawl minigame "twilight of the idols" where every god is present (via initial, of course), and you're trying to keep the orb from their stinky fingers. 10:22:47 reminds *me* 10:23:33 problem 1: i don't want it to be just a skill tree, and the proposal ended up siloed into themes like 'dragons' or 'spiders' instead of something where you can do a bit from everything 10:23:47 problem 2: i'm actually at work *right now*, i have no time to program nowadays :( 10:24:28 go around begging for code like I do! 10:24:38 hey, I've been trying with lava orcs 10:24:40 "Please, sir, I want some code!" 10:24:47 they still have broken tension calc :( 10:25:24 Eronarn: yes, but that could be a systematic problem. Perhaps our expectations for tension are just too high. 10:25:31 I wonder how I'd see the OgBe I ascended not too long ago do shoals:5 10:25:36 Grunt: I will do precisely that with rune lock as soon as 0.13 is out. 10:26:12 dpeg: well, certainly tension isn't so great... i almost feel that some of the LO mechanics (tension stickiness) should be a part of tension itself. it's bad that tension drops to 0 every time you go around a corner, for instance 10:26:35 but, we lack any way to monitor tension #s in actual games 10:26:45 and even with bad tension LOs could still be better 10:27:23 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:37 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:37 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:12 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 10:30:42 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:42 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:30 -!- Nullestia has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас] 10:37:26 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:39:59 -!- marcmagus has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:40:01 -!- Ur-Quan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:49 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:49 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:36 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:52 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:52 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:32 -!- Kenran has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:57 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:48:56 -!- imabunny has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:50:44 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 10:58:57 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:31 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:23 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:07 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:07 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:15 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 11:13:43 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 11:14:26 -!- axujen has quit [Client Quit] 11:15:32 -!- axujen has quit [Client Quit] 11:19:54 -!- axujen has quit [Client Quit] 11:24:05 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:31:13 -!- ircnode0_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:36:12 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:12 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:37:02 -!- crate_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:40:11 -!- crate__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42:06 -!- crate_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:46:47 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:13 -!- NuclearFrisson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:49:50 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:50:55 Eronarn: what kind of stats would you like? 11:51:34 Eronarn: a separate secret logfile would be workable; it can become public once a game ends 11:52:29 Eronarn: and if it's meant to contain only debug stuff, it could hold quite a lot of data. The current ways are meant to be read by non-dev players... 11:52:52 kilobyte: minimum: sequence data of current tension, every n turns. would be nice to have it in a format where it can be contrasted with milestones 11:53:00 (and I mean "dev" as including you and the likes, not the magic push bit) 11:53:58 even once per turn would be workable if we delete the data before |amethyst and Nap King get angry about wasting disk space 11:56:05 current HP numbers could be good too 11:56:12 and MP, I suppose 11:56:32 possibly also a list of the monsters causing tension currently, because we could use that to figure out if the tension score was appropriate 11:56:46 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [] 11:57:28 as for the value of n... ideally something below 10, but i guess it depends how much extra disk this is going to eat 11:58:43 could be better to keep as something capable of doing sampling in the background, and use it during trunk testing going forward, rather than doing a 'log everything over 48 hours, once' approach 11:58:49 would it be possible to have those dev-data files auto-delete themselves after a few days? 11:59:01 Teleported to a vault that is not supposed to be possible. by JohnyC 11:59:12 That way, interested parties could store them elsewhere, but they wouldn't clutter up server disk space 11:59:59 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:00:11 we could do it using statsd, and funnel it all to my server 12:00:24 that might be better than local writes to the game servers 12:00:37 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 12:00:52 this data tends to be highly compressible, so I'd store them locally, compress then send 12:01:15 kilobyte: sure, statsd deployments can do that (you send to it locally with UDP, then it can do other stuff) 12:01:36 and yeah, it should compress amazingly well 12:02:13 (actually, it might be better to even just not emit an event if 0 tension, totally redundant data...) 12:03:39 open question how many dimensions we have in the data. for instance, we could collect just LO data, or also non-LOs as a comparison 12:03:55 for instance, perhaps high XP apt affects tension majorly 12:07:10 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2928-geba34da (34) 12:13:05 -!- koala__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:16:12 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:03 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:17 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:29:41 -!- GiantOwl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:34:01 is it possible in wizard mode to play as a monster? 12:35:36 What species would you like to be now? jackal 12:35:38 _That species isn't available. 12:35:39 :( 12:35:52 no, it's not possible. 12:36:35 there would have to be code in crawl to support playing as that species. the species there is code for are the ones available at the start screen 12:37:43 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:38:01 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:17 -!- hyperbolic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:27 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:39:38 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:45 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 12:39:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:40:04 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:41:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:08 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:52 -!- blabber_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:47:06 -!- hyperbolic is now known as elliptic 12:53:55 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:03:01 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:18 -!- slifty has quit [Client Quit] 13:05:50 -!- Sticking has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:07:41 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:10:18 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:11:26 -!- Voker57 has quit [Changing host] 13:13:03 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:22:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:21 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:25:14 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:30 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:26:36 -!- Nightbeer is now known as Ladykiller69 13:28:17 geekosaur: more than that, monsters play by different rules than players, and "you" has to be a player. 13:29:31 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:01 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 13:30:17 jackals don't have apts, for example 13:30:36 FR: jackal race 13:33:14 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:36:19 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:37:03 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 13:37:47 SamB: I consider that an example of needing code, apts not being a monster thing 13:38:22 I was thinking of stuff like the smaller inventory, lack of MP, etc. 13:38:51 you can't play as the *monster* version of *any*thing 13:39:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:39:58 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:40:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:40:36 <|amethyst> players have species, monsters have types, and the two are only vaguely related 13:40:46 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:58 -!- Morphy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:46:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:46:17 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:05 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:51:38 technically, monsters have species too, although there are not exactly the same as player ones 13:52:26 <|amethyst> yeah, monster species are just monster types, sometimes different from the monster's own type 13:52:55 |amethyst: well I'm really not bothering with the enums so much as the fact that they have almost totally distinct structures 13:53:17 <|amethyst> yeah 13:53:26 the main commonality being that they both have a position 13:53:30 do monsters have xl? 13:53:46 they have HD 13:53:50 because D&D 13:53:53 hit dice are basically monster level 13:54:41 yeah, but they can go >27 13:55:26 that's because monsters cheat. Does anything other than orbs of fire have more than 27, though? 13:55:50 @??cerebov 13:55:50 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: fire storm (8d16), iron shot (3d36), haste, greater demon | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 13:55:56 huh, thought he was higher 13:56:15 <|amethyst> silver star and lernaean hydra 13:56:35 Antaeus (11C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 22 | HP: 700 | AC/EV: 28/4 | Dam: 7512(cold:22-65), 3012(cold:22-65) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, amphibious, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 10elec++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.cold (3d32), b.lightning (3d25) | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 13:56:35 %?? antaeus 13:56:38 huh 13:56:44 are there arguments against merging monster and player back into actor? 13:56:53 "oh god why" 13:56:58 lol 13:57:18 just imagine how bad all the hell/pan lords would be if they were actually xl27 13:57:24 <|amethyst> That they are different, do different things, and require different support 13:57:42 <|amethyst> but, yes, if a method makes sense for both monsters and players it should be declared in class actor 13:57:45 <|amethyst> as many methods are 13:58:54 enygmata: a MUD I have played and coded for for ten years had a big majority of the functionality common to player and monster objects 13:59:06 it greatly simplified coding stuff that should work for both 13:59:11 -!- NekoRex has quit [Quit: "All the vain and ignorant will look up and shout 'Save us!', and I'll look down and whisper... 'Nyo.'"] 13:59:37 Crawl's scheme for monster spells having nothing but the enum common with player ones means we need to code everything twice 13:59:49 same for combat formulas, etc 14:00:23 extra bonus for monster speed being in different units than player speed 14:01:50 yeah, crawl's 'actor' system is insane 14:02:15 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:02:27 unfortunately, you'd have to touch essentially every file in the game to fix it... 14:02:50 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:16 Eronarn: you mean, for moving a good part of functionality into methods? 14:04:26 that can be done incrementally... 14:04:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:48 I'd start with unifying methods that differ for no good reason, like hurt()/ouch() 14:04:56 or messaging 14:05:00 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 14:05:00 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:05:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:50 -!- sloth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:05:54 i haven't looked much into the codebase other than what i needed to make the dump tool but i guess it would basically mean turning monsters into players. i suppose that means more changes on the game mechanics than most players would accept 14:07:06 yeah, we'd have too many monsters running off with the orb ... 14:07:08 I'd like something akin to messages(attacker, defender, "You hit $D.", "$A hits you.", "$A hits $D.") (which for reflectable messages like these could be simplified to one string argument) 14:07:35 "it's just not dcss anymore! lets fork it!" 14:07:58 dungeon crawl spaghetti 14:08:07 enygmata: no, why? Having the same code paths for getting hit, using armour, etc, would simplify the code but make no effects on the AI by itself. 14:11:24 kilobyte: don't they have only few things in common? making monster more player-like should change quite a bit the game 14:12:24 enygmata: what kilobyte is saying is that many things are SUPPOSED to work the same way but have different code for no good reason 14:12:32 oh 14:13:16 though maybe a few of the underpinnings are expected to be slightly different, that can be handled by having THOSE things be implemented differently for each of player and monster 14:13:43 enygmata: why? There's even no difference in semantics (except for possible unifying of some cases). Unless monsters get skills, they'd need a separate formula for AC. Unifying item slots doesn't have a visible effect. 14:14:30 currently, to give a monster gloves you need to hack it into the shield slot 14:14:36 kilobyte: well, you could do a good part of it incrementally, but hard to convince people to bother; and the 'hard parts' would be worse than the fight.cc rewrite since they'd necessarily have balance discussions 14:14:40 haha 14:14:51 kilobyte: how many slots do you think they should have? 14:15:22 monster speed alone... 14:15:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:15:56 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 14:15:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:16:20 you try to tell people that monster centaurs should fire and move at the same speed as player centaurs, and you'll have a riot 14:16:26 SamB: if we used empty fields, they could have same potential slots as the player. But without AI changes, unless they're made to pick up gloves, they wouldn't use them unless they start with a pair. 14:16:38 @??centaur 14:16:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:39 centaur (07c) | Spd: 15 | HD: 4 | HP: 13-32 | AC/EV: 3/7 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(16) | XP: 112 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 14:19:30 Eronarn: many monsters have a different action vs move speed, so do players 14:20:11 kilobyte: yes, would be awesome to have that kind of code consolidation. The question is, as ever: is it worth pursuing this over more immediate gains (like new content). 14:20:57 dpeg: new stuff should be easier to add this way ... 14:21:30 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 14:21:54 dpeg: looking as Summon Foo code to describe these spells I see that unifying these would greatly decrease maintenance cost 14:22:20 and would allow adding that Asterion unique on a shallow depth, too 14:22:20 kilobyte: yes, and getting to that point was super hard 14:22:45 i've been pushing for that to happen to more monsters since sourceforge 14:23:05 and who else remembers the speed changes, which were the Worst Thing To Happen To Crawl? 14:23:07 the main problem for Asterion is that using the summon cap, even as opt-in, doesn't work for monsters 14:23:15 Hey, you are the coders! If you decide that some aspect of the code should be unified, then settle on it and declare it right after release! 14:23:18 That 14:23:29 Eronarn: which ones? 14:23:48 is much better than a non-coder like me (or Erik back in the day) asking for "fighting code overhaul" etc. 14:24:12 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:16 kilobyte: when haste went to 1.5x, some monsters got speed tweaks 14:24:37 dpeg: 90% of summoning spells could be done by a single table, like one done for the player summon cap recently 14:24:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:24:41 including some tweaks to make monsters slightly faster or slower relative to each other 14:24:57 like some lichen being made 10 rather than 9 speed, iirc 14:25:07 people cried bloody murder 14:25:25 dpeg: monster ones differ only by duration, count, summoned monster[s], and whether they obey pre-abjuration or not 14:25:46 except for some unexplained inconsistencies which look like bugs to me in most cases 14:26:32 Eronarn: speed 15 vs speed 20 feels like a smaller difference than 9 vs 10 14:28:50 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:50 could speed be made a float? 14:28:50 kilobyte: I am all for consistency if the cost isn't too high -- you have to assess that, I can't! 14:28:50 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:29:56 there's so few summoning spells that require special code at all... ones like Summon Twister, to place the monster elsewhere, etc 14:30:08 (not that chaos butterflies spawn at the moment) 14:30:34 !tell bh chaos butterflies: make them spawn? remove? 14:30:36 kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know. 14:30:40 kilobyte: super rare abyss spawn <3 14:30:46 or chaos weapon hit effect 14:30:55 xom could make things explode into chaos butterflies 14:31:15 -!- lobf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:17 -!- slifty has quit [Client Quit] 14:31:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:01 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:34:02 You could make Xom's inner flame effect pull a prank on you that would spawn them instead of the explosion. 14:34:29 inner butterfly 14:34:39 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 14:35:32 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2929-ga40525a: Partially revert "Better behaviour if _fixup_branch_stairs() sees multiple branch exits." 10(30 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a40525a78886 14:35:32 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2930-g32698bf: Re-roll active Lair/Vaults sub-branches after every mapstat iteration. 10(28 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=32698bfae152 14:35:32 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2931-gd9674df: A too ugly to live hack for a mapstat failure. 10(28 hours ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d9674dfee0f5 14:35:32 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2932-g82e0a19: Add Discord to the list of Xom tension spells. 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=82e0a191bbc8 14:35:32 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2933-g2432c44: A quote for Fire Storm. Vehumet approves. 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2432c44e5ec9 14:35:32 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2934-ga64439f: A quote for kobolds. 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a64439fdc1cb 14:35:34 Sputterchaosflies 14:37:05 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:37:21 * SamB considers looking at _fixup_branch_stairs to special-case temple since he still keeps seeing where the other exits should be 14:37:25 kilobyte: <3 Fire Storm desc 14:37:53 SamB: should we redo the temple maps? 14:37:59 aha, jaya ballard 14:38:14 does that need to be attributed to M:tG? 14:38:28 dpeg: I liked them before and I don't see any problem with the multiple exit thing there 14:38:45 SamB: yes, that is true 14:39:20 dpeg: though any that have three exits clustered together just because three exits were required are canditates for such treatment 14:40:16 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:41:23 SamB: just !tell me when/if I should do it 14:41:40 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:41:59 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:30 dpeg: well it wouldn't hurt to start now with the boring clusters would it? 14:43:01 -!- GiantOwl has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:43:45 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44:13 okay, will do 14:45:20 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdou] 14:54:47 too late 14:55:14 I did not see IRC due to being busy fixing the stuff 14:55:47 the IRC monitor is temporarily disconnected as I needed it for something else 14:57:07 kilobyte: too late what? 14:57:41 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2935-ga269701: Use same marker for attributions as elsewhere. 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a26970126c23 14:57:41 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2936-g9af37b1: Give all Temple maps only one exit. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 107+ 113-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9af37b1011b1 14:58:17 kilobyte: eww 14:58:50 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Client Quit] 14:59:16 fr: replace all floor tiles in temple with exits 14:59:29 SamB: is there a particular map you'd prefer to preserve? 14:59:33 s/fr:/fr: xom effect:/ 15:00:18 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 15:00:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:01:27 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:02:37 -!- ZLogic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:04:21 * SamB pulls up the diff to look at the damage 15:04:34 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:51 well, I guess this does clean up the aesthetics a lot from the "this is so clearly lopsided" look we had just now 15:06:33 basically those "room with three exits and a statue" -> "room with one exit" and two triangular maps 15:07:01 except at least one had four 15:07:26 I gave a couple other maps two extra altars to preserve the aesthetic, and converted the exits to fountains in one 15:07:42 the very last map, yeah 15:08:21 I was thinking of a couple circular ones from the beginning I think 15:08:24 still symmetric, just not rotationally anymore 15:08:58 two of these got the exit moved to the center 15:09:24 but there are some circulars with the exit near the rim left 15:09:40 huh that seems a bit odd ... 15:10:57 dpeg: did you catch that kilobyte already went the "trim all down to one" route? 15:13:22 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:23 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 15:22:16 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:14 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:32 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:42 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.13-a0-2937-ged52999: Add no_rtele_into to jelly entry vault 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ed52999f5795 15:27:06 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:28:48 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:12 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:30:39 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:31:07 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:22 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:34 -!- Virigoth has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 15:33:59 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:27 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:06 -!- Virigoth has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:13 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:38:13 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:38:45 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:38:46 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:39:03 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:18 SamB: sorry, wife called for attention 15:39:40 Yes, there was a temple map where I wanted to preserve the threefold exit :) 15:41:09 -!- GuraKKa1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:41:27 heres an idea with zero thought. i threw it out in ##crawl and maybe it has some merit. wild magic tmut 15:41:46 simmarine: a little more context please? 15:41:54 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:42:09 crate brought up how there should be some tmut that helps spellcasting... someone thought it needed a downside 15:42:09 so, a spell to kill yourself? 15:42:28 so i thought "why not transmutation form that gives you some form of wild magic" 15:42:41 SamB: no, like the mutation. stronger, but more failure 15:42:48 oh that 15:42:52 I was thinking the card 15:43:09 simmarine: but will people really use this? 15:43:47 well more spell power is good! the only odd thing is how transmutation is mostly associated with uc, though lichform is a thing 15:44:26 kilobyte: let me just adapt the one single map (it'll stay at one entry) 15:44:40 I'm wondering why tmut would be a better fit than charms, but charms gets so much good stuff 15:45:31 SwissStopwatch: you could probably couple it with some more physiological effect to make it more tmutey 15:45:36 dpeg: which map did you want to keep the threefold exit on? 15:45:44 Tmut/Charms would be a funny spell school combo 15:46:00 SamB: just a moment 15:46:17 relatedly, at times I've wondered about whether sometimes tmut forms are good for defensive purposes on characters that aren't otherwise going unarmed - they never quite seem to be there whenever I consider it though 15:46:24 If we're going to talk oddities, then the stoneskin/ozoarmor AC bonus not being tied to spellpower is somewhat strange. 15:46:29 ??submodule 15:46:30 I don't have a page labeled submodule in my learndb. 15:46:43 I guess just because the "normal" ways of getting those defenses are usually more convenient in a lot of ways 15:46:49 I have submodule woes :( 15:47:38 I hate those 15:47:55 I don't even use the submodules on my main system ... 15:47:57 and I always forget the freaking command to update them... what is it? 15:48:59 ?? git[2] 15:49:00 git[2/2]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:git 15:49:03 Wild Magic spell talk: As a crude example, the spell could boost Int and reduce Str and Dex. 15:49:04 "git submodule update" in the crawl-ref folder i think 15:49:09 thank you 15:49:17 yeah 15:49:55 huh? it doesn't work 15:50:05 dpeg: what would you say about a "staff of chaos" that randomly substitutes every spell you cast with something of the same rough type and mana cost? 15:50:06 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:50:26 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 15:50:47 kilobyte: people would not use it deliberately :) 15:51:11 +Int -Dex -Str kind of sounds weird depending on the strength of the bonus/maluses 15:51:15 dpeg: forget about monsters being resistant to your damage type 15:51:19 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51:23 because it would just end up being uncastable for a lot of characters 15:51:26 -!- axujen has quit [Changing host] 15:51:48 highly inconvenient if your Str goes down to like 2, let alone going to zero and below 15:51:49 fatal: Could not read from remote repository. \n Please make sure you have the correct access rights and the repository exists. \n Unable to fetch in submodule path 'source/contrib/lua' 15:52:04 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52:08 SwissStopwatch: it was just an example that tries to make the proposed spell more physical 15:52:26 yeah i wanted to avoid lowering str 15:52:39 (does lichform still give you str for no reason) 15:53:06 well I mean, it could be "physical enough" by altering brain chemistry or magic soul repositories or wherever magical power is stored in the Crawl universe 15:53:07 -!- Marbit has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:12 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:54:05 the other thing is that if it's just a straight boost to Int that probably is not all that good on characters with high Int already unless it's really quite a lot 15:54:26 in which case it's probably too good at more moderate Int 15:54:49 Anyway, I would like to seriously propose to replace the current Slow Healing mutation by *two* different mutations, both suggested by jejorda on the forum. I think they're really good. 15:55:08 SwissStopwatch: double your int, set str and dex to 1 15:55:24 ontoclasm: life saver at Str 0!!! 15:55:28 yes 15:55:32 that sounds hilarious but also awkward 15:55:50 you'll have to drop all your stuff so we can make it wind form too 15:55:56 clearly just make a no-defense blasting station so you don't lose anything when your dex goes to 1, "sound plan" 15:56:08 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 15:56:20 Crippled healing I: Level 1: can only regenerate HP naturally up to 90%. Level 2: can only regenerate HP naturally up to 66%. Level 3: cannot regenerate HP naturally at all. 15:57:57 simmarine: for no reason it suddenly stopped, with the explanation was that it adds some tedium to those who don't use the spell (disregarding that it increases micromanagement by those who do) 15:57:58 in principle I guess slow healing 1 and 2 are bad because they're highly annoying but not necessarily all that dangerous 15:58:15 SwissStopwatch: exactly, that is why I want to replace them by something better 15:58:56 dpeg: what would count as "naturally"? 15:59:07 resting up (waiting) 15:59:35 including everything that boosts regen, right? 15:59:36 presumably anything using regen rate? 15:59:45 kilobyte: yes 16:00:03 so for most purposes the mutation would be redundant with Frail 16:00:10 Crippled healing II: Crippled healing II (ghoul-like): Level 1: you don't regain HP naturally, but you regain it by eating. Level 2: same, but with worse food->HP coefficient. Level 3: no innate regeneration. 16:00:19 kilobyte: not quite 16:00:24 the current numbers make it look like frail but worse 16:00:35 like you can use healing to get bakc higher but 16:00:38 SwissStopwatch: that depends 16:00:47 have you forgotten healing is a very valueable resource in the game 16:00:50 in practice you take so much damage that you can't really stay that way for long 16:01:15 We want some anti-healing mutation to make DD's no-healing the level 3 of some actual mutation. That mutation should be interesting to get randomly. Current Slow Healing is only annoying and not interesting at all. 16:01:30 Bloaxzorro: no, I have played this game a bit 16:01:41 there are basically no situation someone would sacrifice costly healing when at the (frailed) max 16:01:49 I think crippled healing can be annoying in different ways, like I'd probably try to use Vampiric Draining to get around it and hate myself 16:01:57 unless that healing costs you nothing, like Makhleb, that is 16:02:10 I think there's a reason DD aren't all that popular. 16:02:17 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:02:21 a more tolerable way that involves less self-hatred would be god healing, like go Jiyva and that's not toooo terrible 16:02:33 but if you're -not- worshipping one of those gods, geh 16:02:48 a mutation that about forces you to switch gods 16:02:57 well at L1 it isn't that bad 16:03:07 Bloaxzorro: that is nonsense, look at the numbers 16:03:08 66% is painful, mind 16:03:21 reduced effectiveness of healing could be an anti-healing mutation 16:03:26 like 66% puts you below frail 3 threshold and you can't afford to go above it all that much 16:03:27 unrelated to the DD stuff that is 16:03:43 Well if we are talking about the thread then it's still amazingly painful. 16:03:48 MarvinPA: yes, but I thought we want something that naturally becomes "no healing" at level 3. 16:03:59 yeah that would work well except for that last part 16:04:05 yeah this would be separate from that 16:04:17 like 75%/50%/0% healing effectiveness could roughly work but not for DD 16:04:23 ....now, if you get that as a DD..... 16:04:33 could just be a one-level mutation, 50% 16:04:53 mm, so it could 16:05:20 (at least it's not a single-level mutation that halves the base ac of your main source of ac) 16:05:22 -!- shmup_ is now known as shmup 16:05:25 I don't see what is wrong with having mutations that actually do something. My proposals are not massive at level 1, and if you're unlucky enough to get level 2, you should adapt. it is the same as with teleportitis or blulrry vision. 16:05:54 I think the ghoul proposal would end up acting similarly to how slow healing is now in some ways 16:06:15 SwissStopwatch: it has the cool effect that eating could heal you in a pinch 16:06:16 it would completely exclude you from extended game unless you find cmut somewhere 16:06:20 how about a mutation that reduces -healing-, rather than regen 16:06:21 Bloaxzorro: so what? 16:06:29 indeed 16:06:29 i.e. quaffing a potion of HW is less helpful 16:06:32 well, how much healing could you get from a 1 turn food though 16:06:39 that mutation would make people want to acquire rings of hunger... 16:06:40