00:01:10 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2910-g7a74111 (34)
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00:06:11 <Ruffell> Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2910-g7a74111 (34)
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00:10:48 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2910-g7a74111 (34)
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00:21:40 <Naruni> hmm
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00:22:39 <Naruni> bool actor::can_see(const actor* target) versus coord_def&
00:23:16 <Naruni> i wonder if there's a built in location conversion that i can take a coord_def& and check to see if an actor can see it?
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00:33:13 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2910-g7a74111
00:34:10 <SamB> Naruni: that'd be a different function
00:34:21 <SamB> Naruni: why don't you try reading that one, though?
00:38:29 <gammafunk> Naruni: there's acrot::see_cell
00:38:37 <gammafunk> *actor::see_cell()
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10:54:51 <Sizzell> brocolee (L20 TrVM) ASSERT(mons_habitat(this) == HT_WATER) in 'mon-ench.cc' at line 1177 failed. (Vaults:5)
11:00:04 <Sizzell> Ramc (L26 KoAK) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1901 failed. (D:24)
11:00:16 <Sizzell> Ramc (L26 KoAK) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1901 failed. (D:24)
11:00:23 <Sizzell> Ramc (L26 KoAK) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1901 failed. (D:24)
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12:07:56 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2910-g7a74111 (34)
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12:16:36 <Guest87800> Is it a bug if on one level I hate a fire giant with a battleaxe of freezing and a frost giant with a great sword of flaming?
12:17:39 <geekosaur> not enough information. it could be a vault
12:18:38 <Cheibriados> fire giant (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 68-120 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(85), 05fire++, 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1816 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal.

12:18:38 <|amethyst> %??fire giant
12:19:05 <Guest87800> the level was a vault
12:19:08 <Guest87800> full level vault
12:19:29 <Guest87800> so not something to be concerned with? or
12:19:36 <|amethyst> they're allowed to pick up equipment
12:20:07 <|amethyst> so they probably started with different weapons
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12:48:48 <Naruni> !tell kilobyte added a new patch for clouds outside of LOS. https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5548
12:48:52 <Henzell> Naruni: OK, I'll let kilobyte know.
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13:32:19 <flun> "Tentacle connect failed! What the heck! severed status 0"
13:32:33 <flun> "Pathed 56 42 from 55 43 mid 79 count 2"
13:33:40 <flun> this was in abyss:5 after teleporting out of some enchanted forest like rune area
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13:44:28 <Lantell> Gruud (L17 DjFi)  (Spider:4)
13:47:44 <Cheibriados> "tentacle connect failed" <https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7528> by flun
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14:14:15 <|amethyst> hmm
14:15:01 <|amethyst> I wonder if maybe the tentacle was cut off from the base by being at the edge of LOS?
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14:16:47 <|amethyst> Gruud's crash was the "Your <unintelligent ally> is caught in a web!" autotravel hang
14:18:33 <|amethyst> oh, hm
14:18:53 <|amethyst> Medar posted a patch for that back before he became a dev
14:19:00 <|amethyst> and no one noticed
14:19:42 <Medar> I never pushed it?
14:19:49 <|amethyst> nope :)
14:19:58 <|amethyst> it should also be cherry-picked to 0.12
14:20:01 <Medar> Oh wow
14:20:28 <|amethyst> do you want to do that or should I?
14:20:36 <Medar> Be my guest
14:23:11 <Cheibriados> 03Medar02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.13-a0-2911-g4e06f6f: Don't autotravel through monsters caught in nets 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 8+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4e06f6f60fae
14:23:11 <Cheibriados> Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12
14:23:13 <Lantell> Gruud (L17 DjFi)  (Spider:4)
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14:23:35 <|amethyst> !lm Gruud x=cv
14:23:36 <Sequell> 1561. [2013-09-01 19:22:09] [cv=0.13-a] Gruud the Fetichist (L17 DjFi) ? (Spider:4)
14:23:50 <|amethyst> rebuilding clan
14:24:30 <Medar> Thanks
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14:41:41 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2911-g4e06f6f (34)
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14:51:30 <Eronarn> why doesn't yred hate spectral weapon? it makes an unliving thing
14:53:07 <Bloax> It's magic in the shape of your weapon.
14:53:17 <Bloax> Maybe he should hate conjurations too.
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14:56:36 <|amethyst> Eronarn:  yred is opposed to non-living "life forms", not to non-living things in general (you don't get piety for destroying walls, for example)
14:57:11 <|amethyst> Eronarn:  also, spectral weapon is "spirit", not really an automaton
14:57:38 <|amethyst> probably it could be undead except then worshippers of good gods couldn't properly use it
14:58:07 <Bloax> But that would be weird because it's charms/hexes and just plain magic.
14:58:22 <Bloax> of course nothing says it has to be so but yeah
14:58:37 <|amethyst> (in particular, Yred cares about the "artificial" flag, not MH_NONLIVING)
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15:04:37 <buppy> |amethyst: did you get those changes to dwants I sent?
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15:17:07 <Eronarn> Sarge's ghost sprays you with burning goo.
15:17:10 <Eronarn> Your kobold zombie is destroyed!
15:17:13 <Eronarn> this seems wrong...
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15:29:35 <|amethyst> !lm Eronarn -log
15:29:36 <Sequell> Eronarn, XL9 MfSk, T:8936 (milestone) has no matching game.
15:29:59 <|amethyst> Eronarn:  sticky flame was the only thing that happend that turn?
15:30:05 <|amethyst> s/end/ened/
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15:31:12 <Eronarn> i believe so
15:31:25 <|amethyst> buppy:  I saw it but didn't yet get a chance to update
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15:43:45 <|amethyst> buppy:  so if I build this by default it will be compatible with old saves in Formicid branch, not with trunk?
15:44:08 <|amethyst> s/Formicid/dwants/
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15:47:55 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07[dwants] * 0.13-a0-1597-g0a02c02: Replace chitin skin mutation with exoskeleton. 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 31+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a02c0268f0a
15:47:55 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07[dwants] * 0.13-a0-1598-gc1a2e14: Negate swiftness with stasis. 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 12+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c1a2e1451a6e
15:47:55 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07[dwants] * 0.13-a0-1599-gb424dcc: Replace Formicid mon flags with genus checks. 10(27 hours ago, 3 files, 6+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b424dccd4704
15:47:55 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07[dwants] * 0.13-a0-1600-g2dd0ec9: Improve formicid monster gear. 10(26 hours ago, 2 files, 19+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2dd0ec917bc9
15:47:55 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07[dwants] * 0.13-a0-1601-g53ae181: Add new formicid vault and improve old one. 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 16+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=53ae181d6273
15:47:55 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07[dwants] * 0.13-a0-1602-gc7687b1: Make dig carve-out more adjacent tiles to player. 10(25 hours ago, 1 file, 45+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c7687b137062
15:47:55 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07[dwants] * 0.13-a0-1603-gc4b5122: Remove FoVM monster's toxic radiance. 10(25 hours ago, 4 files, 7+ 81-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c4b51221cd6f
15:47:55 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07[dwants] * 0.13-a0-2929-g65c58ed: Merge branch 'master' into dwants 10(23 hours ago,  files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=65c58ed6ccd5
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15:50:32 <|amethyst> I really don't like this approach of, when one race has balance issues, changing things for everybody
15:50:37 <|amethyst> Negate swiftness with stasis.
15:50:41 <|amethyst> Make dig carve-out more adjacent tiles to player.
15:50:43 <buppy> |amethyst: it should be compatible with the experimental branch. Well, hopefully.
15:50:45 <kilobyte> technically, zombies (Yred's focus) are also unliving "life" forms :p
15:50:45 <Henzell> kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
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15:51:27 <kilobyte> so he stresses the distinction between undead and unliving
15:51:33 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  ah, but they're dead :)
15:51:58 <|amethyst> arguably, though, they're artificial too
15:52:09 <|amethyst> see for example Frankenstein's golem^Wmonster
15:53:25 <buppy> |amethyst: I was under the impression that the dig spell was problematic too (someone mentioned devs were considering removing it)
15:53:26 <Sizzell> Experimental (dwants) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2929-g65c58ed
15:54:10 <|amethyst> and the wand?
15:54:52 <buppy> nobody had complained about the wand, but I didn't want to introduce inconsistancies between the 3 digging sources
15:55:36 <SwissStopwatch> when you have to make this many changes to established mechanics to fit in one race, you do have to wonder why it's worth doing
15:55:54 <SwissStopwatch> or at least somebody will wonder
15:56:00 <kilobyte> what's the point of negating swiftness with stasis?
15:56:19 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  because it's necessary for Fo balance
15:56:30 <SwissStopwatch> or is it
15:56:38 <|amethyst> oh, sorry
15:56:42 <|amethyst> "important design choice"
15:56:58 <kilobyte> as I understand it, haste/slow/teleport/etc alter the very space around you, while swiftness merely spawns some wind in your back
15:57:13 <|amethyst> How about we just remove all the other fucking races
15:57:19 <kilobyte> |amethyst: <3
15:57:19 <|amethyst> Just leave a bunch of goddamn ants
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15:57:34 <Bloax> what about paralysis and berserk
15:57:50 <kilobyte> Bloax: uh... you got a point
15:58:01 <buppy> |amethyst: sounds good. I'll send you the patch to remove everything else tommorow
15:58:17 <SwissStopwatch> stasis kind of doesn't entirely make sense as to what it does or doesn't block
15:58:35 <SwissStopwatch> same as clarity doesn't
15:58:47 <SwissStopwatch> although that's not entirely related to the issue at hand
15:59:20 <buppy> with stasis, I didn't really see any "important design decision" for allowing swiftness besides flavour
15:59:40 <SwissStopwatch> it's clearly very important since swiftness is a common escape mechanism
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16:00:08 <SwissStopwatch> if stasis doesn't allow it that does change some number of things that may well come up sometimes
16:01:01 <Bloax> I actually didn't know stasis didn't block swiftness.
16:01:09 <Bloax> Since it blocks every single other form of speed change.
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16:01:25 <SwissStopwatch> yes me neither because I don't ever want to wear stasis
16:01:36 <SwissStopwatch> because of all the other things it blocks, very rare exceptions
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16:02:29 <kilobyte> SwissStopwatch: paralysis, berserk
16:02:40 <kilobyte> SwissStopwatch: hostile teleport
16:02:50 <SwissStopwatch> yes those are considerations, teletrap is another
16:02:58 <SwissStopwatch> they're mostly better dealt with by other means though
16:03:12 <SwissStopwatch> not always, but mostly
16:03:16 <kilobyte> some folks seem to be deadly afraid of Snake:5 teleports for example
16:03:23 <gammafunk> Yeah, I don't see the need to change how dig works for everyone.
16:03:39 <SwissStopwatch> it's kind of a last resort if you need the effect and have no better way to accomplish it
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16:03:42 <gammafunk> Giving Fo a unique dig mechanism seems fine; theirs is not based on magic, but a physical activity
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16:04:01 <SwissStopwatch> like I'd rather deal with Snake:5 tele by canceling the tele, using cTele, or having high MR and not getting teled
16:04:05 <Bloax> Unlike regular dig, which literally MELTS walls - they chew walls.
16:04:10 <SwissStopwatch> and these will all let me, say, continue using haste
16:04:17 <Bloax> That's bound to shatter in a wrong way once in a while.
16:04:40 <buppy> FWIW, the dig change is very minor. All it does is prevent you from quickly completely blocking LOS
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16:05:23 <Bloax> also if you're going to argue that swiftness shouldn't be affected by stasis because it's wind
16:05:33 <SwissStopwatch> so what if you want to make a hallway to fight in
16:05:41 <SwissStopwatch> but don't care that much about blocking los
16:05:49 <Bloax> then spriggans must be the flash because holy shit they're faster than wind that can move an insanely heavy character
16:05:52 <buppy> SwissStopwatch: it still makes single-tile hallways
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16:06:03 <buppy> you just have to walk 1 extra tile to enter it
16:06:49 <SwissStopwatch> I think I would have to try the patch to see what exactly it even did, I suppose
16:07:14 <gammafunk> Yeah, I need to make a local build of dwants myself
16:08:55 <SwissStopwatch> just in general if something is a dwant problem it's weird if the "fix" mucks with non-dwant things, I suspect is the problem
16:09:04 <kilobyte> it seems strange to chew a long line before you
16:09:42 <Naruni> hi folks
16:09:42 <SwissStopwatch> yes, would be power suction chewing
16:09:46 <kilobyte> at least for theme, what about requiring you to physically go the way you want to dig?
16:09:51 <buppy> here's a picture of what the digging would look like: http://imgur.com/pTPv3dI
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16:10:43 <kilobyte> if you're concerned about having to use the ability every wall square, it could turn digging on, and until you move in some non-rock direction all moves take longer but dig stuff as you go
16:11:03 <Naruni> buppy, hmm... i was thinking something completely different http://fineartamerica.com/images-simple-print/images-medium/convict-chain-gang-and-prison-guard-everett.jpg
16:11:08 <kilobyte> it would be easier for you to shape digging as you want
16:11:20 <SwissStopwatch> the picture's not entirely clear, does it just wipe out the front 3 squared and then b.dig?
16:11:51 <buppy> SwissStopwatch: essentially yes
16:11:58 <kilobyte> targetting would be somewhat nicer, too: instead of a bolt, you'd simply go whatever way you want to dig
16:12:24 <buppy> kilobyte: I like that idea, but it sounds even better than current dig and everyone wants a worse dig
16:13:51 <gammafunk> well kilobyte's idea doesn't sound better than current dig, to my ears
16:14:05 <gammafunk> But I may be interpreting wrong
16:14:24 <Bloax> boring beetle digaloo
16:14:58 <kilobyte> buppy: note that can apply whatever changes you want at every stage
16:15:08 <Naruni> kilobyte, does that patch i put on the nerf cloud mantis do what youre looking for or should i try another approach?
16:15:19 <kilobyte> buppy: like, say, enforcing a width, enforcing a turn radius, etc
16:15:48 <buppy> yeah
16:15:49 <gammafunk> Kilobytes idea still gives you one turn per dig, which differentiates it from the spell and prevents it from being too powerful, but without the annoying aspect of reactivating it after each use
16:16:22 <kilobyte> Naruni: yes, it doesn't fix the information leak though
16:16:36 <kilobyte> Naruni: that would need a lot more thinking, though
16:17:24 <kilobyte> hmm no, that patch goes at too low a level, it might muck with forest fire/etc
16:18:49 <Naruni> i dont know how to test it in wizmode, but i know forest fire has its own cloud type, but not sure if it sources from an actor. i could add a check to allow spread outside LOS if type is forest fire
16:19:16 <Naruni> that goes the same with lava pools and the like, im not sure how to tell if those have an actor source
16:20:49 <buppy> kilobyte: I put some changes to buppy_arts on mantis. do whatever you want with them
16:21:13 <buppy> also, I'm going to be afk for a while
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16:24:31 <kilobyte> buppy: looks like only the moon troll armour got positive feedback from others so far
16:25:03 <Grunt> I hope moon troll armour gives permanent tornado.
16:25:05 * Grunt flees in terror.
16:25:22 <ontoclasm> how about if dwantdigging digs a square around you
16:25:28 <gammafunk> You see here, a +4 skin of the chaos butterfly
16:25:37 <ontoclasm> i.e. the 8 squares adjacent
16:25:47 <ontoclasm> and won't work if any of those are stone etc.
16:25:57 <ontoclasm> that way you can't make corridors with it
16:26:06 <Grunt> IMO do that and have it be passive and on at all times.
16:26:11 <Grunt> No cover for dwants!
16:26:22 * Grunt continues fleeing in terror.
16:26:40 <Bloax> sign the cheibriados papers and enjoy your death sentence
16:26:48 <Grunt> !lg bloax won chei
16:26:48 <Sequell> 5. Bloax the Skullcrusher (L27 OgBe), worshipper of Cheibriados, escaped with the Orb and 6 runes on 2013-08-28 18:58:58, with 3632443 points after 87896 turns and 7:49:57.
16:27:25 <Bloax> (this is implying always making room for being surrounded while incapable of blinking and running)
16:27:39 <ontoclasm> yes that was my intent
16:28:01 <ontoclasm> i hate players and want them to die
16:28:12 <Grunt> !learn add ontoclasm <ontoclasm> i hate players and want them to die
16:28:13 <Henzell> ontoclasm[8/8]: <ontoclasm> i hate players and want them to die
16:28:14 <ontoclasm> so every suggestion i make is calculated to encourage this
16:28:32 <ontoclasm> :J
16:28:36 <Bloax> Also if anything, moon troll leather armour seems pretty weak.
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16:29:01 <Bloax> I mean it's okay, but it loses its caster user base because spirit shield would drain all their mp.
16:29:32 <Bloax> And a ring of regeneration for wearing a +4 troll armor is pretty weak.
16:29:38 <Naruni> kilobyte, im not sure i follow how there is information leak. can you explain a little more?
16:30:26 <ontoclasm> spirit shield is pretty good on most casters
16:30:48 <ontoclasm> unless you are a "pure" caster
16:30:55 <ontoclasm> it's generally not bad
16:32:05 <kilobyte> Naruni: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5138
16:32:14 <kilobyte> Naruni: not an easy task
16:32:59 <kilobyte> Bloax: troll armour has regen 40, moon troll 80, a ring of regen 100
16:32:59 <Eronarn> ??weak
16:33:00 <Henzell> weakness[1/1]: A new status effect in 0.13, reducing player melee damage by 25%. Orange demons have a reaching attack that gives the status.
16:33:05 <Eronarn> ...oops, wrong channel
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16:33:39 <kilobyte> ??weak and clownlike
16:37:02 <Bloax> If it increased your mana regeneration then it would start looking like something.
16:37:15 <Bloax> if it also*
16:38:11 <kilobyte> 80 regen is not that bad
16:38:13 <ontoclasm> clearly we should just add moon trolls
16:38:31 <ontoclasm> 80 regen is almost as good as having the spell on constantly
16:38:36 <ontoclasm> and it stacks with the spell
16:38:40 <ontoclasm> ...and any rings
16:39:20 <Naruni> kilobyte, i think treating areas outside LOS as open space and then just not allowing the placement when the place_cloud function tries to drop it fixes that. the player would not know if the cloud dropped and there would not be a re-sizing of the cloud.
16:39:28 <ontoclasm> 2 rings, MTLA, and the spell on give a regen rate of... 260 i think?
16:39:58 <Naruni> this can be done by telling the iterator to still reduce cloud place count but begin another iteration if the target space is outside source's LOS
16:40:00 <ontoclasm> which is pretty serious
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16:40:39 <kilobyte> compared to a robe you get: +4 AC, miniscule GDR and -EV, regen 80.  Instead, you could have rC+ rF+ or archmagi.
16:41:16 <ontoclasm> oh yeah, i'm not saying it's, like, the best armour ever
16:41:26 <ontoclasm> just that it's not floor trash like TLA
16:41:40 <ontoclasm> one could imagine a character wearing it for some period of time
16:41:46 * Grunt reads "the Lernaean armour" <_<
16:41:54 <Grunt> (clearly grants you 27 attacks)
16:42:17 <kilobyte> oh hrm, I was wrong: the spell gives 100, a ring only 40
16:42:23 <kilobyte> and mooner 70
16:42:37 <Bloax> isn't tla 20
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16:42:41 <kilobyte> 30
16:42:52 <SamB> how about the Lernaean Armoire
16:43:17 <Grunt> h - the Lernaean Armoire _You are being crushed by all your possessions.
16:43:17 <ontoclasm> the Lernaean Hydrometer
16:43:21 <kilobyte> _player_bonus_regen()
16:44:56 <ontoclasm> ...apparently lernaea are a kind of parasitic crustacean
16:46:13 <ontoclasm> oh yes, i have a request for you guys who actually know how to code
16:46:31 <ontoclasm> make an init.txt option to turn off water animation in tiles
16:46:54 <ontoclasm> i tried to figure it out but i can't discern why water animates in the first place
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16:50:47 <kilobyte> ontoclasm: do you want just water anim, or all animations?
16:51:22 <Bloax> His little request makes me think "shoals" and "swamp" instantly, so likely only water.
16:51:42 <ontoclasm> kilobyte: water is the only thing that causes issues i believe
16:51:54 <ontoclasm> but maybe it could be a 3-way switch or soemthing
16:52:18 <ontoclasm> supress_animations = [no|liquids|yes]
16:52:44 <ontoclasm> you only get lag when many, many tiles are changing each frame
16:52:52 <ontoclasm> which really only occurs when there's tons of water nearby
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16:53:04 <ontoclasm> e.g. in shoals
16:53:17 <Bloax> there is a strange disturbance nearby!
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16:56:13 <bh> speaking of lair branches, can we make an attempt to loot balance them?
16:56:39 <bh> Shoals has great loot, the rest have jack all
16:59:35 <SwissStopwatch> this probably would be a good thing
16:59:44 <SwissStopwatch> snake at least can also get shops like shoals does
16:59:54 <SwissStopwatch> the floor loot isn't nothing but the way it is kind of seems weird to me
17:01:01 <bh> Shoals & Snake is a far superior combo to Swamp & Spider
17:01:12 <simmarine> yes, shoals & snake is definitely better for loot
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17:03:17 <SwissStopwatch> swamp does at least have one end vault where you probably can get a steam or mottled hide if you like but geh
17:03:46 <Cheibriados> 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.13-a0-2912-gc205671: Fix undead draconian tiles 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c2056710e74d
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17:09:05 <kilobyte> hrm, had to do a mass upgrade on my temp disk to install the toolchain (can't do tiles on my dev server)
17:09:29 <kilobyte> ontoclasm: doesn't the animation work all the time in some cases?
17:10:07 <kilobyte> ontoclasm: I built and tried tiles, looks like it gets updated only every turn
17:10:24 * kilobyte somehow had the impression the tile changes with time.
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17:10:56 <kilobyte> at least, the window keeps getting redrawn
17:11:00 <SamB> ontoclasm: which tiles is he trying to fix?
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17:26:13 <Eronarn> so apparently, in trunk, you can zombify vampire mosquitos
17:26:17 <Eronarn> Here: a vampire mosquito zombie (friendly)
17:26:35 <Eronarn> (i got it by animating a corpse with yred)
17:27:21 <kilobyte> ontoclasm: could you check if this is what you want?
17:27:31 <kilobyte> (pushed, Chei is somehow asleep)
17:27:39 <ontoclasm> kilobyte: sorry, got distracted
17:27:46 <ontoclasm> i'll check
17:27:59 <ontoclasm> thanks!
17:28:25 <kilobyte> no hurry
17:28:42 <kilobyte> just tell me whether to revert, change or document
17:29:04 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2913-ge589619: Add an option, tile_water_anim=false, to disable animation of liquids. 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e5896199816a
17:29:21 <ontoclasm> ok
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17:30:35 <Grunt> kilobyte, did |amethyst ever pass you the Chei poke URL?
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17:31:48 <kilobyte> yes, might be broken
17:32:00 <Grunt> Huh.  It's always worked fine for me...
17:32:10 <Grunt> (not that I have anything to push to check it right now)
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17:33:37 <kilobyte> no mails from gitorious
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17:41:02 <ontoclasm> kilobyte: yes, that's perfect
17:41:06 <ontoclasm> thanks!
17:41:19 <gammafunk> Is the crawl-ref list moderated so that messages you send have to be approved even if you're subscribed?
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17:43:20 <SamB> Grunt: I thought Cheibriados was nice and speedy now
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17:45:02 <kilobyte> SamB: yes, but only when mail notifications work
17:45:08 <SamB> ah
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18:04:18 <gammafunk> hrm, my build of the dwants branch for tiles segfaults on startup
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18:04:46 <gammafunk> Well, I should say that it just crashes
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18:09:31 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 {kilobyte} 07* 0.13-a0-2914-g422cbf2: Moon troll leather armour 10(2 months ago, 7 files, 28+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=422cbf229fd6
18:09:31 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2915-g180ebbf: Make the REGEN artefact property an int. 10(13 minutes ago, 3 files, 5+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=180ebbfc23cd
18:09:31 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2916-g9cb1550: Combine a doubled check. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9cb155024999
18:09:31 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2917-g4136324: Document tile_water_anim. 10(55 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4136324feac9
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19:39:21 <Cheibriados> 03Grunt02 07* 0.13-a0-2918-g39b226b: Decaptialise the new unrand and give it a better description. 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 7+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=39b226bcf4d8
19:44:26 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2919-g3ae9d05: Descs for blink spells. 10(60 minutes ago, 1 file, 31+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3ae9d050cde4
19:44:26 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2920-g178d895: Rename Summon Beast to Summon Hell Beast. 10(45 minutes ago, 5 files, 9+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=178d895b6c24
19:44:26 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2921-g497e1c5: Desc monster summoning spells. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 86+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=497e1c545d78
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19:54:34 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.13-a0-2922-g6ab8498: Remove an unused spell Summon Rakshasa. 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 10+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6ab8498c2c05
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20:03:14 <Zannick> ?? rakshasa
20:03:15 <Henzell> rakshasa[1/2]: This spellcaster likes to make clones of itself and then turn invisible. The clones only have 1hp, but can be maddeningly difficult to kill due to their Evasion. The clones can, however, be Abjured quite effectively. Turning invisible allows you to easily distinguish the clones as well. Magic dart kills the clones!
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20:08:30 <Grunt> Hmm, I correctly guessed why Summon Rakshasa existed in the first place, though not in all the details.
20:09:11 <Grunt> ...it turned up in the same commit as Mara coming into existence, though it was never in his spell set.
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20:20:01 <ontoclasm> uck, why is this not working
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20:20:22 <ontoclasm> everything goes fine, everything compiles, the tile is even present in player.png
20:20:29 <ontoclasm> but it still doesn't display
20:20:37 <Grunt> Define "this"?
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20:23:33 <ontoclasm> mtla doll tile
20:23:49 <ontoclasm> the problem is that tiledef-unrand doesn't list it
20:24:09 <ontoclasm> despite tht fact that mtla has the correct TILE_EQ line
20:24:16 <ontoclasm> maybe making clean will help
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20:27:43 <ontoclasm> ah, it did indeed
20:27:47 <ontoclasm> nifty
20:29:59 <Cheibriados> 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.13-a0-2923-g04ac8d1: MTLA tile 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=04ac8d103ead
20:30:36 <ontoclasm> mtla is ~*fabulous*~
20:30:51 <Grunt> (Can we change the name, or at least have it have more to do with actual moon trolls? <_<)
20:31:14 <SwissStopwatch> what's an actual moon troll
20:31:21 <Grunt> ??moon troll
20:31:22 <Henzell> moon troll[1/3]: Invisible troll with the tornado effect (like a twister). Very nasty! Currently found only in the moon portal vault in trunk.
20:31:24 <ontoclasm> the only property i'd heard ascribed to moon trolls was like
20:31:31 <SwissStopwatch> I said actual! :P
20:31:34 <ontoclasm> really fast mana regen or something?
20:31:46 <ontoclasm> it could do that
20:31:51 <Grunt> Give me a bit and I can come up with an actual moon troll >_>
20:31:54 <Grunt> ??moon troll[3
20:31:55 <Henzell> moon troll[3/3]: moon troll (T) | Speed: 7 | HD: 16 | Health: 68-116 | AC/EV: 20/4 | Damage: 35, 25, 25 | Flags: regen, !sil | Res: magic(106), fire, cold | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 1314 | Sp: airstrike (0-42), invisibility, tornado.
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21:01:06 <Grunt> http://sprunge.us/WWAY
21:01:10 <Grunt> (there)
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21:25:00 <Naruni> how do i have a function accept an optional variable of type int, but allow the function to run if the int wasnt passed?
21:26:15 <Naruni> void function foo(int optional == null) {} like that?
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21:27:33 <geekosaur> c+ or lua?
21:27:35 <geekosaur> c++
21:27:37 <SamB> ITYM = 0
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21:45:52 <Gretell> Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2923-g04ac8d1
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22:00:02 <Naruni> return in_bounds(loc) && !feat_is_solid(grd(loc)) && env.cgrid(loc) == EMPTY_CLOUD;
22:00:38 <Naruni> what does that line mean for a boolean function, return true if loc is in bounds, also not solid, also an empty cloud?
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22:03:36 <Zannick> yes
22:03:53 <Zannick> where empty cloud presumably means no cloud
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22:06:44 <Naruni> ok. now all i need to know is how do i tell if a player has seen a cell yet?
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22:11:05 <Naruni> LOS_KNOWN
22:11:13 <Naruni> oops wrong windos
22:13:31 <bh> is there a wizmode trick for collecting distributions of the value of loot generated on a level?
22:14:32 * Grunt read LOS_KLOWN.
22:14:35 <SamB> the trick might be to bug someone (kilobyte?) to write a script for that
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22:16:27 <SamB> bh: probably starting with mapstat would be a reasonable plan?
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22:17:56 <Henzell> Undo the Grappler (L14 TrMo)  (D:15)
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22:27:04 <Henzell> sullage the Skirmisher (L8 GrFi)  (D:6)
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22:31:10 <Naruni> map_cell.known(loc) got me nowhere
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22:31:26 <Naruni> expected primary expression before '.'
22:31:53 <Naruni> that means map_cell.known() does not return bool
22:31:54 <Naruni> ?
22:32:24 <Naruni> oh map_cell is an object
22:33:21 <gammafunk> Naruni: Have you achieved the Tao of Crawl Code yet?
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22:33:51 <SamB> Naruni: a class, you mean?
22:33:54 <Naruni> gammafunk nein
22:33:58 <Naruni> yeah a class i mean
22:34:17 <SamB> I think you need to find a map_cell object to put before the dot
22:34:25 <Grunt> gammafunk: the Tao of Crawl is not the true Tao.
22:34:35 <SamB> yeah, because crawl is damn ugly
22:34:41 <Naruni> yeah i need to figure how to make my target location turn into a cell object then perform my known check
22:34:54 <gammafunk> Grunt: What is the true Tao, oh Crawl Oracle
22:35:50 * SamB waits for gdb to finish his "ptype env"
22:36:09 <SamB> come on, you printed three fields, what about the rest?
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22:37:45 <SamB> Naruni: looks like you want to look at env.map_knowledge
22:37:47 <Grunt> gammafunk: the Tao that I can describe is not the true Tao.
22:38:22 <Naruni> SamB, yep ive been reading it a bit, but my skills suck. everything i want to code i have to reverse engineer by gnarly trial and error
22:38:52 <gammafunk> Gnarly trial and error is the worst kind of trial and error
22:38:54 <Naruni> for instance, im still getting expected primary expression for map_cell.known(loc)
22:39:11 <Zannick> what is map_cell
22:39:16 <Naruni> even though map_cell is a struct and has a function for known
22:40:12 <Zannick> what's the full expression
22:40:46 <SamB> Naruni: the struct that is declared is not the true struct
22:40:56 <Naruni> return in_bounds(loc) && map_cell.known(loc) && !feat_is_solid(grd(loc)) && env.cgrid(loc) == EMPTY_CLOUD;
22:41:09 <Naruni> SamB, o?
22:41:58 <SamB> Naruni: what are you trying to do there anyway
22:42:04 <Naruni> and in that line, loc is a type coord_def
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22:42:25 <Naruni> im trying to determine if loc has ever been seen by the player
22:44:41 <SamB> what logic is this for?
22:45:11 <SamB> anyway I got this working in gdb:
22:45:13 <SamB> (gdb) print env.map_knowledge[1][1].known()
22:45:13 <SamB> $8 = false
22:46:29 <Naruni> gdb?
22:46:43 <SamB> the debugger
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22:47:04 <Naruni> its for spread effect on clouds
22:47:25 <SamB> I don't think that logic should involve what the player has seen in the past
22:48:11 <Naruni> being as how env.map_knowledge[1][1].known() the [1][1] is an array lookup will (loc) being a coord_def fit there, like this: env.map_knowledge(loc).known()
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22:48:52 <Naruni> damn it didnt work the way i wanted it to.
22:49:15 <Zannick> ...no.
22:49:27 <Naruni> yeah it didnt like that
22:49:33 <Zannick> arrays are not functions, pro tip
22:49:53 <SamB> I don't see a nice way to index it with a coord_def, which seems odd :-(
22:50:06 <Zannick> you have to extract the coordinates separately
22:50:25 <Zannick> unless there are neat c++11 tricks, which i doubt
22:50:27 <Naruni> ok im really close, if i can just get a way to tell if a coord_def has ever been seen by the player i can fix the cloud info leak bug
22:51:01 <SamB> Zannick: I'm pretty sure it doesn't take neat C++11 tricks to define a one-step index method for FixedArray that accepts a coord_def
22:51:39 <Naruni> can i just say int_a = loc[1]; int_b = loc[2]
22:51:56 <Naruni> then env.map_knowledge[int_a][int_b].known()
22:52:04 <SamB> Naruni: just use loc.x and loc.y
22:52:16 <Zannick> you mean, because the array happens to be a class we define, and coord_def happens to be a class we define, we can define operator[] on the array for a coord_def argument
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22:52:39 <Zannick> ...in which we extract the coordinates separately
22:52:46 <Naruni> ah thats easy
22:53:18 <Zannick> you kind of only want it to work on 2d arrays.
22:53:32 <SamB> Zannick: that's what FixedArray actually is for though
22:53:36 <Zannick> yeah
22:53:48 <Naruni> nope it didnt like that either, env.map_knowledge[loc.x][loc.y].known()
22:54:13 <Zannick> is it still giving you an error on map_cell?
22:54:40 <Zannick> oh, you mean you've replaced that part
22:54:49 <Naruni> im not using map_cell. it's compiling fine, but as soon as i try to cast the cloud spell im getting crash
22:54:58 <SamB> ouch
22:55:14 <Zannick> crash on what
22:55:30 <Naruni> should i be setting int a = loc.x then passing map_knowledge[a][b].known()
22:55:49 <Naruni> or is map_knowledge[loc.x][loc.y].known() ok?
22:55:59 <Zannick> if you do that you will make it easier to tell which deref is crashing
22:56:14 <Zannick> also double-check that map_knowledge takes x,y rather than y,x
22:56:18 <SamB> hmm
22:56:22 <Naruni> ASSERT(_cloudable(a, agent)) in 'target.cc' at line 543 failed.
22:56:36 <Zannick> oh
22:56:46 <SamB> no clue, man
22:56:59 <Zannick> because you changed the logic of _cloudable to return false for unknown locations?
22:57:33 <SamB> ooh
22:57:42 <SamB> yeah that's probably a bad plan
22:58:02 <Zannick> what's this info leak bug?
22:58:36 <SamB> I kind of think that having clouds leak info because of their flow is reasonable ...
22:58:52 <Naruni> env.map_knowledge() takes a coord_def
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23:02:23 <Naruni> i cant find map_knowledge function anywhere
23:04:32 <Naruni> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5138
23:05:08 <Naruni> Zannick, im changing the logic of _cloudable to return true for unknown locations
23:06:52 <Naruni> ah i got it
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23:09:04 <Naruni> and that, gentlemen, is what i mean by gnarly reverse engineering
23:09:24 <Naruni> s/reverse engineering/trial and error
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23:13:34 <Lantell> Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.12.2-23-ge55d17c
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23:44:06 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2923-g04ac8d1 (34)
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