00:00:12 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:00:37 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:54 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:05:21 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:05:49 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2816-gd8154f0 (34) 00:06:02 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2816-gd8154f0 (34) 00:07:25 -!- F-Glex is now known as G-Flex 00:12:41 03bh02 07* 0.13-a0-2817-gdf70192: Make stat mutations less boring. 10(6 minutes ago, 5 files, 90+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=df70192d518b 00:13:04 !learn rm beneficial_mutation[2] 00:13:05 Deleted beneficial mutation[2/2]: Potion of meh. 00:13:06 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:26 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:13:31 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2816-gd8154f0 (34) 00:13:34 okay.. I'm compiling crawl 00:14:14 Problem is, it seems to be defaulting to compiling the tiled version. 00:14:25 Am I crazy? 00:15:10 Giomancer: possibly... 00:15:21 compiling crawl would hint at "yes" 00:15:46 what are you doing though? which os, which build system? 00:15:47 I don't know if build examines your environment. can you `echo $TILES`? 00:16:30 ??ironrobin 00:16:30 ironman[1/6]: In the Ironman challenge you must take downstairs as soon as possible until you reach D:27, and then leave the dungeon alive. 00:17:25 learn add ironman killed by rune lock, rip 00:17:36 hm 00:18:13 Nope. 00:18:23 bh: that change in player-stats.cc 00:18:29 doesn't look right to me 00:18:31 Linux, gnu make 00:18:36 ChrisOelmueller: what part? 00:18:46 the missing 2* for weak/.... 00:18:57 oh it's just confusing, sorry 00:19:06 bad indentation is bad 00:19:36 that's what i get for viewing stuff in a browser 00:19:58 I can indent the second line another time 00:20:46 03bh02 07* 0.13-a0-2818-gb8a6fbb: Formatting fixes 10(31 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b8a6fbb9282f 00:22:51 Aha! 00:23:10 So, on the defaulting to tiles, I was indeed crazy 00:23:42 what were you doing? `make TILES=false`? 00:23:56 i'd honestly rather blame the makefile, it can do very funny things at times 00:24:00 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:28 And I fixed the other thing I wanted to ask as well. :3 00:25:06 nah, I was ignoring tiles completely, and watching the make process start in the rltiles directory 00:25:41 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:10 welp, that was quite the non-issue! 00:27:13 \o/ 00:27:38 -!- HaBeeee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:27:39 ??Giomancer 00:27:39 giomancer[1/1]: Proved beyond any reasonable doubt that he is oooold: Did the Pawlowian trigger of "push turtle" --> "Mario!" 00:27:48 \o/ 00:27:57 Anyway, tankies 00:28:11 -!- Giomancer has left ##crawl-dev 00:39:09 -!- Mumcon has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:30 -!- themummra has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:45:26 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:34 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2818-gb8a6fbb 00:51:33 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:52:33 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:55:26 -!- Exister has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:57:02 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:13 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 01:05:10 -!- Mumcon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:06:38 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:16:54 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:51 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:22:11 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 01:24:22 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:28:30 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:31:45 -!- Chozo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:14 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:56 -!- underisk has quit [Quit: underisk] 01:45:52 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:00 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 01:48:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:53:06 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:53:31 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 01:58:47 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 02:02:19 so maybe draining could be toned down a little now? draco buffed it but i dont necessarily agree at all that it was "gone before the fight you got drained in was cured". it takes an ridiculous amount of time now to fix draining 02:02:30 this was even before trying tomb. tombs a little nuts with draining since its a death curse 02:02:55 i dont even necessarily mind draining being more noticable, but jeez it can take a long time to remove 02:08:54 yeah i'm not sure i'd agree with that either 02:09:25 and i only tested crypt after the changes, tomb sounds pretty bad from that even before the new buff 02:12:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:36 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:13:42 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:10 -!- Aponym has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:15:22 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:36 tomb curses are a weird edge case though, in the rest of the game you never really get those same effects piled on top of each other ad nauseum 02:15:53 well thats why i talked about tomb separately 02:16:02 yeah 02:16:05 also so far my experience in tomb, they werent even stacking up 02:16:24 if it was it wouldve been even more ridiculous. i had brightred drain without ever leaving tomb:1 stairs lol 02:16:38 it just takes a really long time not even counting tomb to deal with draining now 02:23:04 -!- Lumpydoo has quit [Client Quit] 02:34:12 Yeah 02:34:33 I got drained by a orc sorceror on Orc:1 and didn't have the draining removed until I had cleared the endvault of Orc:4 02:34:40 That was just ONE draining 02:35:09 -!- maurer_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:35:29 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:35:56 i mean orc can be a little understandable since if you go there after lair you arent really ever training a skill up very much in the first place 02:36:16 you probably needed to beat up some knights or other highlevels to make any dent in draining before probably 02:38:09 It shouldn't take the entire branch to cure a single draining instance 02:43:01 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:44:10 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:41 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:47:05 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:54 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:50 -!- darktwinge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:59:07 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:05:38 but orc is already bad at giving you exp until orc:4 assuming you did lair first. thats nothing new 03:05:46 drain is dependant on how much exp youre getting 03:06:34 try paying attention to your exp gain when doing orc before killing orc:4 ending next time. you might not even gain a full level in a skill most of the time, its pretty normal 03:14:13 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:26:41 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27:21 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:08 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 03:31:25 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:33:56 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:37 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:50:17 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:06 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:01:45 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:42 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:33:48 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:17 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:39:33 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:10:48 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:11:18 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:22:05 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 05:25:18 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:38 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:23 -!- mnoqy has left ##crawl-dev 06:12:38 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:15:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:17 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:26:52 -!- UristMcSgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:27 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:57 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 06:42:56 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:49:37 -!- Bcadren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:51:26 -!- fmul is now known as enygmata 06:57:42 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:04:40 -!- Virigoth_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:29 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:31 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:32:29 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:35 <|amethyst> dpeg: I wrote an implementable for descriptions of monster spells, but probably it should give more guidance on how detailed the descriptions are 07:36:02 <|amethyst> dpeg: because probably they shouldn't be quite as descriptive as for player spells 07:36:09 <|amethyst> dpeg: #7515 07:36:40 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:37:14 |amethyst: I saw that, many thanks! 07:37:38 btw, I think it would look a bit nicer if the spell sets in x-v always came last 07:37:47 (not that that has much to do with what you say :) 07:38:38 I'd rename a number of spells 07:38:49 <|amethyst> probably, yeah 07:38:57 <|amethyst> I asked about porkalator, but some people really like the name 07:38:58 their names made sense for a private implementation detail, but suck for something that faces the player 07:39:07 Hexen 07:40:04 kilobyte: completely true, but that's an effort we gladly do, given how much this improves the game 07:42:13 I guess I should change db_lint to complain about missing monster spells then 07:42:34 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 07:42:35 <|amethyst> also there's still the question of how they show up in search 07:42:55 <|amethyst> I suggested putting monster spells at the end in darkgrey, but maybe there's a better way 07:43:16 actually, db_lint doesn't do spells at the moment 07:43:26 <|amethyst> kilobyte: ChrisOelmueller hacked up a version 07:43:31 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I don't have a copy 07:43:56 |amethyst: definitely at the end... we could also make a separate ?/ item if there are too many of them 07:44:13 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:44:45 <|amethyst> dpeg: I thought about a separate menu, but then you'd have to put the shared player/monster spells in both (not necessarily duplicate them in the source of course) 07:45:24 <|amethyst> and for that you'd have to check which player spells are monster-castable (probably just iterating over all monster spellbooks) 07:45:57 -!- omniguy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:46:47 <|amethyst> Oh, also it seems kind of strange for wretched stars to have "Iskenderun's" magic blast, unless we make up some mythology about how Iskenderun tried to conquer the abyss or something 07:46:57 <|amethyst> s/magic/mystic/ 07:48:23 |amethyst: good reason on player & monster spells 07:48:54 |amethyst: the wretched stars were taught by the best! 07:49:18 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:50:55 <|amethyst> oh, they are I_NORMAL 07:54:50 <|amethyst> then I guess it's not *so* strange, though somebody (don't remember who or where) thought they should have M_ACTUAL_CASTER so it's a spell instead of an ability, but then they become affected by silence :( 07:55:44 <|amethyst> also, maybe we should omit the list from M_FAKE_SPELLS monsters, or at least remove the word "magical" 07:59:01 -!- duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:24 hrm, there's a problem: the "Melee" spell is no longer unique to the rod of striking 07:59:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it's fine, it's specifically omitted from monster lists 07:59:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte: as is Cantrip 08:01:16 -!- maha has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:01:53 -!- BizmarkRibeye has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 08:02:30 <|amethyst> though for ?/s purposes maybe it makes sense for the player one to be named "Striking" anyway 08:03:19 <|amethyst> I guess having the word "Melee" in the rod's spell list does make it quite clear how to use it though, in a way that "striking" wouldn't 08:08:35 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:52 -!- sumguy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:14:43 <|amethyst> agh, gitorious is down! 08:16:05 <|amethyst> They say "15:30 CET" but do they mean "CEST"? 08:16:32 <|amethyst> not sure if I need to wait 15 minutes or an hour 08:19:11 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:19:59 enigmoo (L6 GrTm) ASSERT(themonst) in 'monster.cc' at line 6012 failed. (D:4) 08:21:51 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:25 <|amethyst> I still haven't been able to reproduce that one; it seems to involve S2S, but I see no reason that a snaked stick dying wouldn't call stop_constricting_all 08:26:08 <|amethyst> enigmoo left the level and came back, but there was another instance of the same crash that did involve S2S but didn't seem to involve changing levels 08:26:29 <|amethyst> (unless maybe X[]) 08:27:18 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~~themonst player!=enigmoo 08:27:18 Unknown field: player 08:27:20 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~~themonst name!=enigmoo 08:27:20 No milestones for * (crash noun~~~themonst name!=enigmoo). 08:27:25 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~themonst name!=enigmoo 08:27:25 6. [2013-08-25 08:13:11] VengefulCarrot the Grappler (L9 CeTm) ASSERT(themonst) in 'monster.cc' at line 6011 failed on turn 9713. (D:9) 08:27:32 <|amethyst> that one 08:27:36 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~themonst name!=enigmoo -log 08:27:37 6. VengefulCarrot, XL9 CeTm, T:9713 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/VengefulCarrot/crash-VengefulCarrot-20130825-081311.txt 08:28:14 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:29 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 08:45:52 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 08:46:54 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:54 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:58:50 What do you think of the following hands-on modification to randart generation? New rules: (1) weapons cannot have both to-hit and to-dam negative. (2) There must be at least two properties, and not all properties can be numerical (Str+3, AC+2 etc.). (3) For randarts with a god in the name, same as (2) but with three properties. 08:59:18 (Yes, this may lead to addressing Oki/Trog gift rate in a second step.) 08:59:54 i like #1 09:00:15 i think also requiring at least +0 total modifier wouldn't be that bad 09:00:17 Sick of "+1 robe of Augmented Fears {rF}" 09:01:03 not sure how i feel about making god ones stronger 09:01:09 Eronarn: I am fine with completely crappy randarts -- I just want them to be ... special. 09:01:50 (3) is flavour only -- there is no way to reliably produce god-named randarts, is therE? 09:04:04 (Note: two parameters to tweak god gifting: timeout, and piety hit for gifts.) 09:05:15 I'm not sure if (3) is any better than just randomly choosing how many properties to add.. 09:05:27 I mean, it'd be hardly noticeable 09:06:44 Zaba: sure, it is the minorest point of my list 09:07:12 but Xom told me to put it there 09:07:59 <|amethyst> dpeg: for (1), does it even make sense for weapons to have Dam+ ? 09:08:21 |amethyst: I don't understand :O 09:08:28 <|amethyst> dpeg: since that's exactly the same formula-wise as enchantment (and corrosion doesn't matter because it's an artefact) 09:08:46 <|amethyst> it would be like armour of protection 09:08:48 |amethyst: ah, I see what you mean. No, it doesn't. 09:09:22 |amethyst: does Dam+ not help auxes? 09:09:41 I was referring to X,Y for weapons: +4,-7 sabre of speed -- fine with me. -3,-3 mace of crushing not. 09:10:08 (This is just an admittedly arbitrary attempt to make our artefacts more artefacty-looking.) 09:11:16 <|amethyst> ohh 09:11:38 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:46 i like how tome's does it, it's some coherent templates (prefix/suffix, like normal items get), but you get more of them, and then some truly random stuff on top 09:12:00 it ends up making artefacts that are usually at least interesting 09:12:07 <|amethyst> dpeg: in practice no one would use something with -7 to-damage 09:12:27 <|amethyst> dpeg: I guess as a swap for resistances, but that's no different from -acc -dam then 09:13:26 <|amethyst> Eronarn: "templates" like brands? 09:13:35 <|amethyst> because all art weapons do have a brand 09:13:54 <|amethyst> (and multiple brands isn't possible unless special-cased like Nessos) 09:13:59 |amethyst: I know, and I don't want to make all randarts useful. I just want them to always look special. 09:14:22 A weapon with both -,- is always crap. A randart with a single property is not worth being smitten (?). 09:14:54 |amethyst: sort of; tome has many more properties so a 'brand' will do multiple things (say, +% light damage, +light resist, and light damage on hit) 09:14:57 If it could've been an unrand, we don't need a randart version of it (the corrosion bit is not enough to matter, imo). 09:15:05 and they're prefixes/suffixes, so a normal item can get two 09:15:39 and there are weak/strong tiers, so normally the best you can get is a strong prefix + strong suffix, but with an artifact you can get more than one prefix or suffix 09:17:00 it generally produces much more interesting things than having purely random generation 09:20:01 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:06 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23:27 -!- Burer has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:27:05 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:26 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:29:04 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:18 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:33:16 -!- enygmata is now known as fmul 09:37:09 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:42 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39:11 -!- maha has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:39:17 -!- maha_ is now known as maha 09:39:23 <|amethyst> ours *tries* not to be completely random 09:39:32 <|amethyst> it just doesn't necessarily try hard enough 09:40:28 <|amethyst> we do at least make a token effort to compensate for negative properties or lack of interesting properties 09:41:32 <|amethyst> but multiple brands would need a fair amount of code change, not all of which is necessarily obvious 09:42:04 <|amethyst> themed sets of artefact properties could be interesting though 09:42:30 <|amethyst> wouldn't want them to be too fixed though 09:44:10 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:26 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:50:07 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 09:53:25 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:01 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:16 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:44 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:59 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:52 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:01:08 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:32 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:04:57 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:55 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:08:33 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:08:46 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:21 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:12:34 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:03 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:34 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:16:39 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:16:53 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:28 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:20:41 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:16 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:24:29 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:46 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 10:27:30 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:28:03 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:28:21 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:56 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:32:08 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:37 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:35:43 -!- petete has quit [Client Quit] 10:35:45 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:36:01 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:53 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:41:29 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:31 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:46 -!- Burer has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:46:09 |amethyst: So that players can easily test jump in non-Fe species, I've pushed a commit in the jump_attack branch to give boots of jumping to all boot-wearing species. The repo is git://gitorious.org/~gammafunk/crawl/crawl-gammafunk.git 10:46:55 I still need to figure out if there's any kind of elegant solution to the targetting situation with jump attack 10:47:29 Right now you can only jump attack a monster, but that can include friendlies, which introduces some 'degenerate' tactics, like use of sputterflies 10:48:23 These have conduct reprecussions for oka and TSO/Elyv, but I'm sure some people will not like this situation 10:48:48 An alternative is to only allow jump attack for hostile monsters, but that seems like a kludge 10:49:27 And allowing the player to jump without jump attack is best avoided imo 10:49:44 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 10:54:36 -!- duckroller has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55:00 !tell Grunt I want to do a shoals end that's a bit different than the existing ones; something with a randomized circle/chain of islands (perhaps with structures) leading up to a central, larger structure. Do you think just an encompass vault is the best approach, or should I try to use some of the shoals layout code? 10:55:01 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 10:55:15 !tell Grunt I want to do a shoals end that's a bit different than the existing ones; something with a randomized circle/chain of islands (perhaps with structures) leading up to a central, larger structure. 10:55:16 gammafunk: OK, I'll let grunt know. 10:55:24 !tell Grunt Do you think just an encompass vault is the best approach, or should I try to use some of the shoals layout code? 10:55:25 gammafunk: OK, I'll let grunt know. 10:56:38 oh, gitourious is still down 10:56:52 *gitorious 11:02:01 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:23 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:18:46 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:11 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:23:48 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:59 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:51 -!- knaveightt has quit [Quit: Relax, its only ONES and ZEROS!] 11:32:09 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:41 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:29 -!- debo has quit [Quit: debo] 11:36:56 -!- Burer has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:39:50 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:43:31 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:40 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:52:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:54:16 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 11:55:35 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 11:55:47 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 11:56:52 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:26 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:01:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:07:27 gammafunk: you can force fire attack spells at nothing, and swing at the air... jumping to attack should probably let you do the same 12:08:19 Eronarn: Yes, the problem is that the player can do that to turn jump into a kind of 'semi-controlled' blink 12:08:36 Eronarn: They can deliberately attack nothing to get the desired movement 12:09:04 The landing site is still randomized in a 3x3 square, so it's not like normal cblink or sem-controlled 12:09:24 it's also pretty short range and not immediately repeatable 12:09:25 But it's still 'abusable' 12:10:04 at least aiui 12:10:11 SamB: Well the max movement is 5, which is not that short range, but yes not repeatable 12:10:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:50 gammafunk: if it is too good to be usable outside of 'combat', then it's too good to be used in any situation where you can force a 'combat' 12:11:00 remember, even if it can only be used on hostile stuff, you can always turn allies hostile 12:12:28 Eronarn: I think that's perhaps the basic problem. I'm not sure how many devs would find a limited blink with special restrictions and a specially randomized landing site too powerful 12:12:57 You can jump over flying, giant enemies, can't do it from 'liquid ground', or if exhausted 12:13:30 So it has a number of limitations, but it's still a powerful positioning tool 12:13:45 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:45 What I'm really trying to achieve is 'translocations + attack', but it does seem difficult to make somthing that doesn't have a component of 'standalone translocation' 12:15:09 -!- AriaC has quit [] 12:15:27 gammafunk: you could make it a not so great translocation, but quite good for attacking, so that there's very little incentive to just use it to jump around but still some to use it to attack with 12:15:40 sorry, s/You can jump over flying/You can't jump over flying/ 12:15:58 Eronarn: Yes, I'd like to achieve something like that, I think 12:16:18 perhaps it requires doing a charge (move a few squares in the turns beforehand)? 12:16:45 Eronarn: pouncing is usually done from a crouch 12:17:02 it could also immobilize you once you land, as you regain your balance 12:17:05 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:30 Eronarn: Yeah, I had considered soemthing like that, or others had suggested limited duration slowness 12:17:31 SamB: running long jump :) 12:17:55 *low duration; all durations are limited I suppose 12:18:16 shapeshifters ;) 12:18:35 they have a duration of some kind? 12:18:50 yes, that's how it's implemented - it's basically 'random chance to polymorph' enchantment that doesn't decrement duration 12:19:08 haha, interesting 12:21:05 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:55 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:22:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:37 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:26 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 12:36:29 -!- duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:22 gammafunk: have you thought about something like letting it 'frontload' movement, rather than adding any? so if you want to go 4 spaces you have to run in that direction 4 turns 12:39:49 then you land and can't move for a bit 12:40:29 Game crash after death by whitenerdy53 12:41:28 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:32 Eronarn: So the translocation would be 'instant', but the length of recovery would be based on how far you moved? 12:43:25 it would be a possibility; admittedly weird flavor, but possibly good effect 12:47:31 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:48:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:06 -!- ground4 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:04:49 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:41 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:52 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:08:52 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 13:10:14 -!- Psyknux has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:27 -!- Moredread has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:58 -!- Burer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:00 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:18:50 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:01 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:22:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:31:02 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 13:32:30 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:15 -!- Burer has quit [Client Quit] 13:42:37 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:56 -!- gammafunk has quit [Client Quit] 13:44:19 -!- timbw has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:58:55 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:05:57 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:54 -!- duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:11:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.13-a0-2819-g7cf6d9d: Revamp Stone of Tremors 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 79+ 181-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7cf6d9d9c74e 14:11:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.13-a0-2820-gc25e8ee: Reduce elemental evoker power (especially at low evocations) 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c25e8eee38ee 14:11:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.13-a0-2821-g87b9d2d: Reduce the recharge rate bonus from high evocations for elemental evokers 10(85 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=87b9d2dc9771 14:11:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.13-a0-2822-g388d670: Experimentally revamp scrolls of immolation 10(30 minutes ago, 2 files, 20+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=388d670c250b 14:11:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.13-a0-2823-g40650c1: Reduce default Inner Flame duration to something more sane 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=40650c192c2d 14:11:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.13-a0-2824-ge8be298: Make lost souls less attracted to extremely high HD creatures 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e8be298d6585 14:11:53 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.13-a0-2825-g2f028f1: Decrease Lost Soul speed and hp slightly 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2f028f1e300a 14:15:01 DracoOmega: so uhm, buff draining? 14:15:17 What? 14:15:21 there's some complaints in the logs 14:15:25 Ah yes, that 14:15:44 Well, a couple of my thoughts about that: 14:16:01 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:18:14 a) I had originally seen it as a longer-term status with a milder-than-normal effect, so it doesn't seem inherantly bad if it lasts a while (after all, old draining could last effectively even longer) 14:18:14 b) I really did see people curing it all the time by just killing the shadow dragon that just brethed on them, and I feel it should last at least a bit longer than that 14:18:14 c) If draining is actually unpleasant without rN, then this seems like a good reason to actually value rN for places that concentrate this effect, and thus itself not inherantly a bad thing 14:18:14 d) If mummy death curses drain too much, they can be tweaked independently (I didn't buff their numbers the other day, but of course they're affected by the general slowed recovery) 14:21:18 how does new inner flame do with ely? 14:23:58 Gods don't currently penalize you for it in any particular way. I can an argument that they should, but Ely doesn't mind if you refrigerate your allies at the moment either (or other LoS-style effects) so long as you don't actually kill them, so I adopted the same behavior here 14:25:34 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:26:06 DracoOmega: how could possibly new immolation be a good effect? 14:26:48 old one did some area damage, useful for getting rid of a load of high-ev low-hp enemies like a pack of killer bees. Situational but non-useless. 14:26:53 Well, saying it could never be positive implies that normal inner flame is never positive either. Some characters could easily set up very destructive chain reactions with it, assuming they had good positioning and ranged attacks 14:27:09 new one: you can't hit anything next to you. To be affected by the scroll, they need to be next to you. 14:27:12 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:27:27 Um, no? They just need to be in LoS 14:27:33 ie, you need to be a spriggan/centaur for it to have any use 14:27:47 oh, and it did not destroy scrolls before, it does now 14:27:51 Ideally you'd want to read it when they were NOT next to you, obviously 14:28:38 Well, it certainly doesn't destroy scrolls on its own. You'd need to read it in combat and then blow something up while standing next to it, which is rather completely different from encouraging you to drop everything while read-IDing in safety 14:37:07 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 14:53:05 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:04:38 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:48 -!- blabber has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:01 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:21 -!- yalue has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:45 -!- Greif has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:21:51 <|amethyst> does tremors still make holes in walls? 15:24:39 -!- kaiza has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:12 !seen DracoOmega 15:25:13 I last saw DracoOmega at Mon Aug 26 19:28:38 2013 UTC (56m 34s ago) saying 'Well, it certainly doesn't destroy scrolls on its own. You'd need to read it in combat and then blow something up while standing next to it, which is rather completely different from encouraging you to drop everything while read-IDing in safety' on ##crawl-dev. 15:25:51 |amethyst: Yes, but it occurs to me that it's no longer deterministic that you get at least one (which is a problem for that sprint) 15:26:26 DracoOmega: I may be a minority, but I do use ?immolation. It works wonders against early ice beasts or those annoying killer bee groups. 15:26:26 <|amethyst> and I imagine you have less control now over which one 15:27:18 -!- blabber has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:26 |amethyst: I think I would again argue that the correct solution to this issue is to allow felids to use wands 15:28:17 dpeg: A vanishing minority, I think. I have scarcely even heard of someone using it offensively in a way that wasn't obviously bad 15:28:54 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:29:31 (Like, trying to do so is usually more liable to be the punchline of a joke, no offense ^^;) 15:29:32 DracoOmega: but why are all the others right? The scroll has some uses! :) 15:30:08 Well, the damage is really tiny and in a majority of cases where that damage is large enough to be useful offensively, you are so early that using it is probably as scary or scarier than not 15:30:13 it has like 100 downsides and 0.5 up 15:30:24 ha, naysayers 15:30:35 and having immolation identified when you meet ice beasts does not qualify as "early" 15:30:37 Also those persistant ally problems that are hard to fix 15:31:11 i admit i also used it on bees, once 15:31:11 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31:20 DracoOmega: I'll try your new ?immolation, of course. But couldn't it become that ?immolation, ?teleportation is a standard way to use it? 15:31:31 How would that help you? 15:31:38 true! 15:31:49 * dpeg is not a very good inner flamer 15:31:51 Haha 15:32:13 Well, the spell is kind of hard to use well (some would argue close to impossible, by design, though that's overreaching) 15:33:05 DracoOmega, ChrisOelmueller: six hours ago I proposed a quick & dirty change to randart generation. Did you see it? (I can paste again.) Are you interested? 15:33:17 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:33:34 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:54 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:56 Well, in general I think would be in favor of randart generation being improved, sure 15:34:16 I don't know how I feel on the specifics 15:34:44 Feel free to come up with better specifics! :) 15:34:56 wrt felid wants: 'You have limited fine manipulators.' like blurry vision but for wands 15:35:01 *felid wands, rather 15:35:07 i'm not very interested, but what i explicitly didn't like was that properties of the name would use spoilers in any way 15:35:08 see also pigs, spiders 15:35:23 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 15:35:29 i.e. things named after something are more likely to be identified in any way 15:35:34 that's just not necessary 15:35:49 Eronarn: Well, if they have enough dexterity to use many of the other items that they can, I am not sure why wands are special here 15:36:11 DracoOmega: wands have to be pointed directly at a target, most other things don't 15:36:31 ChrisOelmueller: I can see that you consider my god special case to be inelegant (and it was the most minor proposal of the three) -- but why spoilers? 15:36:53 Eronarn: Well, pointing a stick in your mouth at something seems like it wouldn't need as MUCH dexterity as rapidly drawing specific cards out of a deck 15:37:02 yeah that is necessarily not spoilers, by the time you know the name you already have it IDd so 15:37:08 but it is silly 15:37:24 DracoOmega: Paw Five 15:37:51 but yeah the only reason it shouldn't apply to decks is crippling nemelex for felids would be bad 15:37:51 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: can felids use decks without nemelex? 15:38:00 |amethyst: I am almost certain they can 15:38:07 <|amethyst> oh, hm 15:38:27 Also they can aim phials of floods just fine, which also involves removing a stopper 15:38:30 i dont think so 15:38:32 (Along with potions and things) 15:38:38 they can lap up potions :) 15:38:47 dpeg: guess i just don't like coupling that kind of information to anything 15:38:48 stopped can be pulled out with teeth :) 15:38:52 They still need to get the cork out! And where are they carrying them, anyway? 15:38:52 *stopper 15:38:57 alternately 15:39:02 geekosaur: Well, sure it can. But why can't they use their mouth to point a wand? 15:39:02 we could just say they're polydactyl cats 15:39:04 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:16 or wine cork style, claw in center and pull 15:39:30 (not great corkscrews, but still can work) 15:39:51 <|amethyst> You drink the potion. Your head is stuck! 15:39:56 And yes, I double-checked, and they can use decks fine without Nemelex 15:39:57 also i'd kill for a "boring numbers" ring like ac+4 int+2 usually, much unlike putting SInv in there or whatever 15:40:12 DracoOmega: i think blurry wands is a good compromise indicating that they are less good, but not completely unusuable 15:40:27 Why do they need to be less good, though? They're not less good with any other item that is similar 15:40:36 <|amethyst> rods 15:40:49 Well, they can't actually WIELD those, so I don't feel that really counts 15:40:59 The restriction feels more consistant, anyway 15:41:07 (Also, not being able to use wands causes recurring problems like this) 15:41:09 DracoOmega: they don't need to be less good, but i think less good is an interesting disad 15:41:12 Regarding digging (and also disint) 15:41:12 what if, hypothetically, rods were to become changed soon as to not require wielding........... 15:41:16 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:41:20 not being able to use wands at all is sort of bad though 15:41:20 like, say, somebody would have started a branch with that 15:41:58 ChrisOelmueller: Incidentally, about randarts, I think the problem is less properties and probably more that weapons/body armour is normally worthless just due to base type / enchant, so the properties don't even matter 15:42:03 and then everybody forgot about it despite the incredible piece of shit that current multi-spell rods are (coming from design and interface now) 15:42:16 well most body armour is worthless full stop 15:42:21 fr: rename rods to Spellguns 15:43:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:19 DracoOmega: I don't want every randart to be good, but I want less crappy ones. Weapons are very rarely interesting if both enchantments negative, hence my suggestion (at most one negative). On the other hand, negatively enchanted armour pieces are in use (not on body armour but on minor slots), so I'd not modify that. 15:45:00 I don't mean to suggest every randart be good either, but I think there could stand to be MORE of them that are 15:45:22 Since randarts are also an opportunity to make base types that might not ordinarily be used see some use if the stats are interesting enough 15:45:37 The rate of randarts being generated can always be tuned based on how good their quality is 15:45:57 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:38 <|amethyst> dpeg: well, for the minor slots I think it might still be good to limit how negative they can go 15:46:58 |amethyst: not more than their maximal enchantment, for example? 15:47:02 <|amethyst> yeah 15:47:14 <|amethyst> or maybe no more than their base AC plus 1 15:47:15 Well, a -5 cap is not going to be worn by anyone who knows what they're doing, except in very strange circumstances 15:47:37 In general, the code for generating randarts at the moment is awful, though 15:47:51 So I think that if any change is made, it should just start from scratch 15:48:03 DracoOmega: yes, but then nothing happens 15:48:07 I've seen this before :( 15:48:10 What do you mean, 'nothing happens'? 15:48:18 otoh, if DracoOmega takes it on, a lot could happen :) 15:48:22 <|amethyst> dpeg: we've completely rewritten things before :) 15:48:23 That wasn't my way of saying 'It's too much work - let's not bother' :P 15:48:47 But rather let's not be tied too strongly to how things are, if an otherall better system can be concocted using the elements that we have 15:49:07 Shying away from minor changes because a major overhaul seemed more attractive, and then never came -- it did happen before (I am definitely guilty of some of them) 15:49:15 i'd like to see more possible effects 15:49:33 like +HP on vitality is cool, it could be a neat thing to have generally 15:49:51 Eronarn: more effects would be good in any system, I don't think that is directly related to randart generation 15:49:53 Like, I am thinking it might make sense that randarts with higher item levels might be given better modifiers particularly if they are poor base types, for example. 15:50:08 don't you spawn a hammer on me now 15:50:19 Perhaps not THAT poor a base type :P 15:50:28 imo, the current system produces too many items that are just not worthy a funny name and a strange glyph -- I definitely want to get rid of those, and I don't care so much that still many of them would be pretty useless 15:50:53 dpeg: disagree... one of the way tome randarts end up interesting is that they are so niche-y 15:50:54 But I think, in isolation, it might make sense that sometimes a particularly nice randart could be worth moving down a weapon rank for 15:50:55 randart %, i hear it's funny 15:51:13 if you are a fighter type, you can never use a wizard randart... and there are so many classes that, say, 50% are automatically unusable 15:51:14 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:51:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:51:19 but, they're quite powerful and fun to look at anyhow 15:51:24 I mean, this is true now, but in circumstances that are either vanishing, involve not meleeing at all, or are early in the game 15:51:56 so if there were e.g. a randart sword that gave +Fire like a ring of fire, not that interesting to a MiBe, but makes it feel much more powerful 15:52:20 -!- Mattias has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:34 DracoOmega: I did think about more elaborate stuff, where e.g. the generator tries to compensate negative properties with good ones, but it's pretty complicated -- the current system does produce decent items, just too much trash along the way 15:52:48 <|amethyst> Eronarn: kind of steps on the toes of staves though 15:53:02 dpeg: Well, I think the current system is coded in a way that is extremely brittle to changes 15:53:10 sky weapons should rather not also get enhancers 15:53:29 DracoOmega: what isn't 15:53:31 dpeg: It's actually hard to even tell what it does 15:53:38 |amethyst: wouldn't it be cool if randart staves which tended to get other +magic stuff, and randart weapons that tended to get less-magic stuff, but both could do both? :) 15:53:42 ChrisOelmueller: Have you LOOKED at the randart rolling code? :P 15:53:45 yes 15:53:50 but also at other crawl code! 15:53:53 Fair enough. I do think it's particularly bad though 15:54:25 alright, no proposal from me then :) 15:54:34 well anything that uses literally hundreds of `if (chance_in)` is a great read 15:54:49 especially if you, like, actually want to figure out what it does 15:54:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:56:15 (btw, I also think that the numbers on randarts should use a non-flat distribution: +1,+2,-1,-2 aren't very exciting) 15:57:45 Depends on the other modifiers on the item, really 15:58:31 dpeg: have you seen {sky weapons} 15:58:45 ??sky weapons 15:58:46 sky weapons[1/14]: A - +2,+1 flail (protect) 15:58:58 ??sky weapons[2] 15:58:59 sky weapons[2/14]: M - +1,+5 sling of the New World {flame, rC++} 16:00:02 other good ones are 4,5,8,14 16:00:09 ??sky weapons[4] 16:00:09 sky weapons[4/14]: f - -3,-4 sling "Cuypsicw" {frost, rF+ rC+} 16:00:30 would you say any of those qualify as particularly "bad"? 16:00:58 <|amethyst> the first one is not worthy of being an artefact 16:01:00 well, casters might wield them 16:01:12 <|amethyst> oh, and is not 16:01:16 oh you also might not know sky_______ 16:01:23 that could explain it of course! 16:02:17 ChrisOelmueller: I am afraid there's a joke to be understood which I am completely missing :) 16:02:46 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:02:47 <|amethyst> sky is a player whose choice of weapons is AIUI unconventional 16:02:55 !lg sky s=ch 16:02:56 6733 games for sky: 2539x SpWz, 721x SpEn, 718x DEWz, 207x TrBe, 196x SpEE, 148x TrMo, 88x HEWz, 77x TrFi, 63x SpAs, 61x SpTm, 52x KoAs, 47x MuWz, 44x NaWz, 44x FeBe, 41x VpEn, 39x DgEE, 38x MfIE, 35x OpMo, 34x TrWz, 32x OpVM, 32x SETm, 31x DgTm, 31x MuSu, 30x NaBe, 29x FeWz, 28x VpAs, 27x SpAK, 25x GhNe, 22x HECj, 22x NaHu, 21x OpEE, 21x KoBe, 20x LOWz, 18x MuIE, 17x SpIE, 17x FeEn, 16x DjWz, 16x... 16:03:01 <|amethyst> Chris can explain more 16:03:22 he's that ~caster~ 16:03:39 ah, nice challenge he plays 16:03:57 look at that castah 16:04:03 -!- Mattias has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:44 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:08:31 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:36 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09:45 <|amethyst> my first win (DDNe, offline), my primary weapon was the +0,+5 falchion of Wiwkaur {holy, Str+1 Dex+2} 16:09:55 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:08 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:10:42 I think it's a nearly universal thing that many people's early wins involve questionable weapons 16:10:54 I have a couple that make me roll my eyes and shake my head 16:11:11 Like doing Zot with a randart morningstar of venom, back when morningstars were not very good 16:13:26 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:14:11 <|amethyst> my last win (nearly two years ago) I was using the +0,+6 mace "Tufyvulofy" {!p, freeze, Dex+4 Int+4} up until D:23 :/ 16:14:22 <|amethyst> now that I know better, I can't win ... 16:14:40 <|amethyst> (that last one was on a HOHe without magic) 16:15:04 It's been two years since you've won? =/ 16:15:09 <|amethyst> !lg . won 16:15:10 2. Neil the Faith Healer (L27 HOHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-10-04 20:54:19, with 1318561 points after 99008 turns and 8:11:47. 16:15:25 <|amethyst> haven't won since I joined the devteam 16:15:34 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:38 <|amethyst> !lg . place=zot 16:15:38 3. neil the Crack Shot (L26 MiGl), worshipper of Trog, blasted by an orb of fire (fireball) on Zot:5 on 2012-08-27 18:20:02, with 538861 points after 97334 turns and 6:00:12. 16:15:55 <|amethyst> has it really been a year since I've been to zot? 16:16:01 <|amethyst> !lm . br.enter=zot 16:16:02 5. [2012-08-27 17:57:06] neil the Phalangite (L24 MiGl) entered the Realm of Zot on turn 89565. (D:27) 16:16:04 <|amethyst> yup 16:16:58 <|amethyst> !lm . br.enter=vaults 16:16:59 11. [2013-06-07 05:51:34] neil the Executioner (L16 LOBe) entered the Vaults on turn 39253. (D:15) 16:17:05 <|amethyst> !lm . br.enter=vaults -2 16:17:06 10/11. [2012-08-27 06:11:22] neil the Impaler (L15 MiGl) entered the Vaults on turn 35081. (D:15) 16:17:07 Oh dear 16:18:39 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:02 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:20:11 clearly we need a neilrobin 16:20:16 -!- xnavy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:20:17 <|amethyst> ??neilrobin 16:20:18 neilrobin[1/1]: Play for as long as you want, then kite as many enemies at once and die surrounded by them. Password 'robin'. See {neil} for an example game 16:20:22 <|amethyst> ??neil 16:20:23 neil[1/2]: !lg neil 3512 -tv 16:20:45 oh no, how will it be called then 16:21:17 <|amethyst> it's called abusing server admin privileges to copy people's saves and play them locally :P 16:21:32 hah 16:21:41 well i was trying to rip off zermakorobin but alas 16:21:45 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:56 elliptic: Hi! 16:22:03 hi 16:22:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:22:43 elliptic: you a random shot from the hip (feel free to ignore if you're pressed for time). Do you have a snappy idea how to improve randart generation? Would you rather leave it be, modify the existing algorithm, or redo it from scratch? 16:23:12 uh, I wasn't aware of any issues with current randart generation 16:23:26 no serious issues 16:23:49 I don't actually know what the current algorithm is, but it seems to work fine 16:24:16 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 16:24:51 elliptic: okay! There was talk (starting on forum) that it produces too much rubbish. 16:25:24 these are presumably the same people who complain whenever acquirement doesn't give them the exact item they want? 16:25:29 surely you can't be taking the forums seriously 16:26:05 the same can be said about any other place where players or devs talk 16:26:06 Bloax: I am one of the not-so-many red guys who posts there 16:26:57 dpeg: i wonder why nobody wants to deal with those great proposals (how about shutting down the design subforum, it seems to be the worst from what i hear) 16:27:01 If you guys redesign the radarts i'd be happy to do design/name stuff.... I've done that before (mapping mechanics to prefix and suffix) professionally for a couple games :) 16:27:24 fr radarts 16:27:39 also excellentarts 16:27:40 Champions, Marvel Heroes. 16:27:53 I'd take radarts and excellecntarts over 'randarts' any day of the week. 16:27:59 ChrisOelmueller: huh? GDD has come up with good stuff. If you close your eyes from something only because it contains so much chaff, you'll miss the wheat. 16:28:48 well you also need lots of manpower to actually evaluate which is which 16:29:20 of course i may be biased by recent events 16:29:26 hard to ignore those 16:29:27 yes, but you get rewarded if you do it 16:29:50 for some, paying 10 units of frustration for 1 unit of reward is not a good deal 16:30:18 good ideas are priceless 16:30:53 ChrisOelmueller: Well, no one is forcing YOU to read it 16:31:09 i'm still seeing too much of it 16:31:13 even actively trying to avoid 16:31:17 How is that? 16:31:31 if only i knew 16:31:31 Do people keep linking you things or something? 16:31:49 (From the top off my hat, forum ideas that made it into the game: a god who gives piety from jelly slurping, uniques such as Gastronok, a large number of interface improvements) 16:32:04 f - [Vaults:5] the ring of the Dragon {+Fly Str+1 Dex+2} f - [D:16] the -4 wizard hat of the Ward {rN+ MR++ SInv} o - [Vaults:4] the +1 ring mail "Woda" {rElec SInv} i - [Vaults:3] the cursed -6 buckler of Responsibility {Dex+2} (158 gold) k - [Vaults:3] the +0 cloak "Nyomom Efuv" {rC+} 16:32:39 A bunch of randarts from two different games. 16:32:55 <|amethyst> the +1 ring mail "Woda" {rElec SInv} - is that apropos or unapropos? 16:33:02 the buckler is poor, as is the cloak (design, not power), the others are alright imo 16:33:04 What, Gastronok was a tavern thing? I thought both him and Jivya predated its existence 16:33:07 <|amethyst> water isn't usually associated with rElec 16:33:14 DracoOmega: Sourceforge forum 16:33:17 dpeg: were those interface things really discussed in the design section 16:33:26 They aren't utter trash. 16:33:34 But look at the depths. 16:33:46 A +1 ring mail on vaults:4? 16:33:57 would you use a +4 ring mail 16:34:01 crawl items aren't as depth-dependent as in many games 16:34:17 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: as a primary spellcaster I might 16:34:52 ChrisOelmueller: I got good feedback on some threads I made myself (for example for the randgods) 16:34:58 <|amethyst> assuming I was from a not-terrible-str race anyway; and I hadn't found a good dragon armour 16:35:07 dpeg: that cloak is actually a pretty interesting item IMO, since you are giving up the ability to enchant to +2 in exchange for a useful ability 16:35:24 The cloak is okay. 16:35:41 ok 16:35:43 but you know what's okay too 16:35:46 ??cloak of flash 16:35:46 cloak of flash[1/1]: Unrandart +3 cloak {+Fly, EV+4} 16:35:59 I don't think you can compare average randarts to particularly good things 16:36:01 though if you wanna wear that prepare for http://pastebin.com/tBPSucYf 16:36:39 dpeg: if any type of randart needs work, it's the weapons IMO... they could use a simple enchantment buff 16:37:05 like trog gift randarts are fine because they get an extra +3 damage enchantment 16:37:10 elliptic: yes, my proposal for randart weapons was this: at most one of to-hit and to-dam is negative 16:37:16 that won't do anything 16:37:22 what would you do? 16:37:28 -!- Mattias has quit [Quit: かがんで廻ってひねってｃｌａｐ！] 16:37:34 the problem isn't just the negative stuff, it's that highly enchanted stuff is rare 16:38:03 yes, as I said before, I feel the chances shouldn't be linear 16:38:11 dpeg: Also, high accuracy and bad damage is still really bad 16:38:21 of course 16:38:33 dpeg: like I said, I think that trog randart weapons are quite strong... they just get an extra (-3,+3) 16:38:56 and surprisingly enough 16:38:56 * dpeg wonders if that was his suggestion back in the day :) 16:38:56 no need for anything complicated, just buff all weapon randarts by (+2,+2) or something 16:38:58 trog randarts are considered to be quite good 16:39:21 <|amethyst> elliptic: my other suggestion (not on weapons) was to cap armour at -1 net AC 16:39:25 <|amethyst> elliptic: no -6 boots etc 16:39:27 DracoOmega: what do you mean +27 -1 is bad!! 16:39:34 _You drop the -7 cloak of the Chupacabra {rPois rF+}. 16:39:49 interesting opportunities to trade 6 ac for rpois and rf+ 16:39:54 |amethyst: eh, I've actually used -4 boots 16:40:13 <|amethyst> elliptic: how many beneficial properties? 16:40:18 <|amethyst> and were some of them +Dam? 16:40:25 |amethyst: armour randarts are incredibly strong on average, I'd be hesitant to buff them 16:40:28 bad enchantments usually come with either trivial or nonexistent benefits 16:40:45 the above hat is pretty good for example 16:40:45 |amethyst: slaying + resists, yeah 16:40:53 Once they do come with something good but iwth a bad enchantment that's an interesting one. 16:41:00 imo every randart should have a positive aspect 16:41:04 in the right circumstances 16:41:26