00:00:41 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.2-19-gc1c9fca 00:00:50 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:05:26 Stable (0.12) branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.12.2-19-gc1c9fca 00:05:51 -!- skipdog172 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:06:38 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12.2-19-gc1c9fca (34) 00:11:02 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:12:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:23 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2772-g9cbdda8 (34) 00:16:14 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2772-g9cbdda8 (34) 00:21:19 -!- duckroller has quit [Quit: far too much went so far as to be more like to handle the abyss right now] 00:26:16 -!- maha has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:32:15 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:35:29 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 00:46:24 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2772-g9cbdda8 00:49:18 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:56:58 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:53 -!- slifty has quit [Client Quit] 01:01:02 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:33 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:38 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:07:26 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:08:28 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 01:28:53 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:33:03 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:41:03 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:42:06 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:43:47 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:43:56 -!- VolteccerJack_ is now known as VolteccerJack 01:45:00 -!- Lumpydoo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:59:38 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:12:34 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:16:24 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:18:47 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:20:14 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 02:20:35 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:21:48 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:31:42 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:35 -!- squimmy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:41:23 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:41:54 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:44:34 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50:51 -!- oblivioncth has quit [Client Quit] 02:52:50 -!- underisk has quit [Quit: underisk] 02:58:59 -!- flowsnake has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:45 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:05 -!- themummra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:30:32 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:01 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:41:41 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:42:58 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 03:46:50 -!- Senjai has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:46:59 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 03:59:48 -!- Zig has joined ##crawl-dev 04:02:32 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:27 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 04:05:54 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:06:27 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:12 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:09:02 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:09 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 04:15:17 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:15:39 -!- axujen has quit [Changing host] 04:18:03 -!- axujen has quit [Client Quit] 04:27:11 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 04:27:50 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:35:40 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 04:37:57 -!- gammafunk_ has quit [Quit: gammafunk_] 04:38:23 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 04:39:10 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:41:50 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:57 Hello everyone 04:42:35 trying to compile crawl from source by steps listed here: http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/INSTALL.txt 04:42:42 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:42:54 I'm using VS2012 04:43:21 and having errors when compiling crawl-ref.sln 04:43:55 C1083: Cannot open include file: 'build.h': No such file or directory crawl-ref\source\version.cc 04:44:18 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44:19 And the other one "The OutputPath property is not set for project 'dat.csproj'. ..... " 04:44:33 Could someone please help me to fix this errors ? 04:45:25 -!- alefury|2 has quit [] 04:45:47 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:53 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 05:07:37 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:07:38 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:51 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:14:43 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 05:16:54 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:38 -!- namad7 has quit [] 05:41:02 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:42:27 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:46:50 -!- sumguy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:47:26 Is there any one online ? ) 05:51:25 -!- fmul is now known as enygmata 05:53:30 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:56:24 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:10:26 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:30:55 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:34:55 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:25 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:02 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 06:43:12 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52:21 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 06:53:09 -!- bcadren has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:53:26 -!- axujen has quit [Client Quit] 06:55:52 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:06 -!- Moredrea1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:07:06 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:10:01 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:11:07 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:20 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 07:26:12 Zig: I'm not sure which versions of VS are supported, and I also forgot which dev implemented VS support :( 07:26:26 -!- radinms has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:33:32 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:36:03 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:33 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 07:37:13 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [] 07:37:26 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:42:11 safest to just go with msys 07:43:15 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Client Quit] 07:43:17 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:54:31 is there a function i could call to load the databases or something? 07:54:47 -!- enygmata is now known as fmul 07:57:26 nevermind 07:59:38 yey 08:02:06 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:06:03 crawl --builddb 08:06:48 delete saves/db to force reloading the database anew, saves/des for the vault cache 08:09:48 i was looking for a function, because the program here ends inside parse_args() (i call exit in there) 08:09:52 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:09:55 i found databaseSystemInit() 08:24:40 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:27:31 -!- knaveightt has quit [Quit: Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?] 08:33:58 alefury: thanks 08:34:32 +kilobyte: About msys. Sorry I'm not very familiar with this. Is it have some kind of IDE? 08:37:40 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:43:28 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:45:50 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:31 Zig: no, a complete toolchain with a bunch of tools that tend to be required for building stuff 08:48:01 best to use "msysgit" which is kind of a fork 08:48:41 and as its name suggests, it includes git so you can mess with crawl's trunk directly 08:50:56 -!- Zephryn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:43 +kilobyte: thanks, so what IDE could be used with it ? MinGW? 08:57:24 there might be some that work with it, but I'm afraid I have no idea 08:57:38 mingw is a compiler, not an IDE 08:57:56 (and a set of headers) 08:58:24 what env. tools like (IDE, Debugger etc) are you using ? 08:59:28 I don't use any IDEs 09:00:22 just something like VI ? with command line compiler/debugger ? 09:00:58 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:01:26 yeah, a clicky-clicky interface can't be scripted, etc 09:02:21 you can't use ssh from a slow phone with a good keyboard to a fast server to use an IDE 09:04:46 cool ) 09:05:06 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:23 I'm a dev from VS world so it sounds a little bit tricky for me :) 09:06:44 but magically :) 09:09:48 Druid's call. by dck 09:32:22 -!- Zig has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:32:41 -!- joosa1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 09:32:51 -!- joosa1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:20 (time to make a fool of myself just before I leave for work) 09:39:48 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:08 Entered pan, apeared in the middle of hellion island. Im a Djinni, so it may not be a bug by Svankensen 09:40:25 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:40:43 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:54 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:14 -!- maurer_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:47:32 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:46 -!- tani has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:51:52 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:59 !abyss Grunt 09:52:02 Long live the rune lock 09:52:03 bh casts a spell. grunt is devoured by a tear in reality! 09:55:47 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:50 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:56:10 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:25 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:42 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:07:06 !lm . place=elf min=xl 10:07:07 50. [2011-05-26 12:05:00] bh the Thaumaturge (L9 DEWz) entered the Elven Halls on turn 8435. (Orc:3) 10:07:19 hm. I wonder why I did that 10:07:22 !lm . place=elf min=xl won 10:07:22 22. [2010-10-01 20:52:23] bh the Swashbuckler (L13 SpCK) entered the Elven Halls on turn 30487. (Orc:4) 10:08:42 !seen dpeg 10:08:43 I last saw dpeg at Thu Aug 22 22:56:52 2013 UTC (16h 11m 51s ago) quitting with message 'Quit: leaving'. 10:08:47 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:48 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09:04 elliptic: I am afraid I have an idea what an answer to the D:15 problem could be :) 10:09:04 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:10:45 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 10:12:31 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:49 dpeg: is the idea "make it harder"? :) 10:17:10 absolutely 10:17:40 elliptic: in a sense, the current discussion points how that there's still some fluff in the current midgame 10:18:06 <|amethyst> we just cut down the number of D encompass vaults per game 10:18:17 <|amethyst> what about putting (weaker versions of) some of them on D:15 or so 10:18:20 <|amethyst> possibly guaranteed 10:18:56 Also, the discussion is slightly unfair: yes, D:15 will look easy after the rune lock. But currently, the Lair branch ends look easy when you finally do them! 10:19:02 right 10:19:41 so the comparison of crawl 0.12 with 0.13 will look like http://i.imgur.com/BITmX.jpg, right? 10:19:43 |amethyst: yes, lots of things could be done with vaults. But perhaps having different monster generation rules for early and late D would already do the trick. 10:20:48 kilobyte: pretty sure nobody is talking about putting rune lock in 0.13 10:20:59 <|amethyst> I thought in Doom you couldn't go on to E1M2 until you found the E1M1 exit 10:21:56 |amethyst: mostly fixed in subsequent games like Hexen 10:21:59 kilobyte: well, that's a slightly propagandistic point of view. I am trying to make the game harder and more interesting -- it should be opposite of the current "games must be linear" trend. 10:22:41 elliptic: ah, thanks for correction 10:23:04 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:23:33 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:24:05 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 10:26:27 dpeg: I'm quite concerned about losing the freedom to roam as you like, not having any limits other than the Zot entrance -- and even that I tend to clear in the middle of the game rather than the end 10:26:45 how about my idea of just making D:15 a scary, scary place? 10:27:00 i keep seeing that level design comparison everywhere and it's incredibly disingenuous or inaccurate 10:27:13 that is not to suggest you can't make that comparison, but the second picture is laughable 10:28:04 bh: see my reply on crd... it could work, but I think it would need a good way of signaling the sharp difficulty increase to the player 10:28:59 -!- timbw has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:29:02 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:29:07 how about guaranteeing an entry vault on D:15 and clustering the stairs? 10:30:30 and to make things more interesting, could we make Crypt/Forest:$ connect back to Dungeon? 10:31:25 <|amethyst> how does that make things more interesting? 10:31:46 it converts the dungeon graph from a tree to a DAG! 10:32:23 ("dag-gone it!") 10:32:44 <|amethyst> Oh, I thought you meant "interesting for players", not "an interesting exercises in finding the places we assume acyclicity" 10:32:48 <|amethyst> because it wouldn't be a DAG 10:32:58 bh: why a DAG and not a regular graph with cycles? 10:33:22 <|amethyst> elfrobin is kind of daglike 10:33:31 bh: all of this could be done, but I think we're best served with the simplest approach -- the experience will tell us whether leave it be, or to invent something more elaborate. 10:33:43 As has been said, it's a simple change. 10:33:45 (codewise) 10:33:46 kilobyte: because for some reason I was thinking 'hatch' and not 'stairs' 10:35:44 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:35:47 what about having Lair connected to the Vaults? That'd remove quit a bit of travelling. 10:36:03 yes, with autotravel it doesn't take much human time, but still 10:36:49 kilobyte: disucssion inevitably leads to ways how to circumvent the lock and I am fine with that. My claim is just that forcing players to do one single rune branch reasonably early (it's not really very early) will make for a better tactical game. Giving out the option to bypass the lock gives back the strategic freedom you had (and that you in particular want to keep) and that's alright, but should take a second place, imo. 10:39:07 it might unnecessarily increase the number of unwinnable games. In my last decent game, I found Agnes, Azrael and Nikola stair camping on Spider:1 10:39:36 bh: or to put it another way, it will provide more opportunities for player skill to shine 10:39:54 bh: players like you or me might perish, others would certainly prevail. 10:40:10 * bh imagines dpeg giving out really hard exams 10:40:11 bh: this is what testing is for 10:40:26 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 10:40:33 dpeg: it's often a matter of luck with getting appropriate gear rather than skill. Currently, you can search for items you need elsewhere. 10:41:01 kilobyte: yes but again. The better a player is, the better she can work around this. 10:41:08 clearly the answer is level scaling, people love that right 10:41:16 If the game becomes undulily (huh?) hard, we retract or modify, of course. 10:41:28 syllogism: level scaling? 10:42:10 speaking of Lair branches, can we get some loot balance? Shoals has great loot, the rest have nothing. 10:42:13 so if you clear the branch end at xl 27, it would have more difficult monsters 10:42:13 bh: actually not really, but I believe that one quality of games is "depth": how many distinguishable player levels it can support. (Disclaimer: I am a Go player which has lots of depth.) 10:42:53 syllogism: I never know if you're sarcastic or not but in case this is hard to get right. 10:42:59 -!- Twinge has quit [] 10:43:21 I'm not being serious, it's a mechanic most players dislike in other games 10:43:33 ah, good to know (I don't play other games :) 10:43:45 <|amethyst> and one that can be quite scummable 10:44:00 I can imagine. 10:44:15 kilobyte: when we cut Hive, that also removed freedom, but we all agreed it improved the game, right? 10:45:19 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:52 can we dump Labs? :) 10:46:26 * dpeg smacks bh with a book of the dead 10:46:47 dpeg: It's our Sokoban 10:46:52 <|amethyst> dpeg: to be fair, this is a significantly greater restriction than that: "don't go to the second half of the dungeon yet" reduces the number of paths through the game much more than "don't go to hive ever" 10:46:56 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:16 replace labs with sokoban sometimes 10:47:27 <|amethyst> that said, the whole reason for a rune lock is that many of those paths are considered pathological 10:47:43 bh: with a few differences (I thought about my defending Crawl labyrinths is a bit like the fossils in r.g.r.n defending Gehennom mazes and Sokoban -- but rest assured, it's not :) 10:48:07 Zannick: April 1st :) 10:48:13 |amethyst: yes, but otoh the Hive removal is a permanent loss of xp and items. The rune lock is only a temporary loss! 10:48:45 IMO procedurally generated sokoban would be good 10:49:05 elliptic: I told bhaak a billion times but it seems to be really, really hard to make a decent level generator. 10:49:12 yeah 10:49:15 is it easy to create tractable sokoban instances? 10:49:35 <|amethyst> bh: it's trivial to create easy ones 10:49:40 you can create solvable levels but having them actually be interesting is hard 10:49:44 yes 10:49:45 I guess you could start with the boxes in position and then work backward to a start state 10:49:46 <|amethyst> the problem is creating solvable but just barely ones 10:50:00 sh sh, wrong channel, wrong topic :) 10:50:15 dpeg: crawl is a game about computational complexity 10:50:33 what if instead of boxes we used rune locks 10:51:21 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 10:51:26 kilobyte: I believe that the rune lock will not feel like a plain loss -- things like Orc and Elf might be reassessed (say if you've starved for items) 10:52:30 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:29 I've never wanted to do Elf before I could just slaughter everything there 10:54:05 doing elf before you can slaughter everything gets you slaughtered 10:55:02 Zannick: as in, I like it when I can just tab through Elf 10:57:44 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 11:01:26 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:03:35 bh: of course, but is that good design? :) 11:03:41 anyway, piano lessons now, back later 11:03:43 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:05:10 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 11:07:07 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:07:26 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10:51 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:11:07 bad idea: just connect Lair_Branch:$ to D:15 and don't include downstairs on D:14 11:13:05 -!- bh has quit [Quit: off to the woods] 11:15:28 -!- debo has quit [Quit: debo] 11:17:23 add rune wraiths in D:15 and deeper. Make them very difficult, but obtaining one or more runes weakens them 11:17:30 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:18:50 or those wallmasters from zelda, except instead of taking you to d:1, they put you into a random early game branch end 11:19:04 -!- axujen has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:21:50 -!- Chozo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:54 -!- Chozo_ is now known as Chozo 11:25:16 -!- sanka has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:35:37 -!- Kalma has quit [Quit: *_*] 11:36:39 -!- Smallinsect has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 11:39:34 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 11:44:02 -!- duckroller has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:47:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:49 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:15 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 11:49:54 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:51:32 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:08 I just had a weird (bug) with a meph ghost, can anyone explain what happened? 11:52:43 no, unless you tell us the problem first 11:53:04 the meph just disappeared 11:53:37 I got the 'cloud engulfs you' message, but then the cloud never appeared 11:53:49 this was on cao several minutes ago 11:54:15 is there a way to replay it? 11:54:21 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:29 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 11:55:56 meph isn't guaranteed to make any clouds except on the center square 11:56:03 it has some chance on each of the other squares 11:56:11 so possibly that is what happened 11:56:38 you can replay it if there is a milestone nearby (e.g. if you killed the ghost), or if you died soon after (e.g. if the ghost killed you) 11:57:53 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 11:59:57 elliptic: how many auts do I have to spend in meph to get confused? 12:02:29 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:02:36 again, getting confused isn't guaranteed 12:02:41 you have some chance each turn 12:02:46 depending on your XL 12:05:11 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.2-19-gc1c9fca 12:07:26 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:13:11 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:23 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:20:06 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2772-g9cbdda8 (34) 12:24:41 -!- maurer_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:29:31 -!- Guest62734 is now known as SwissStopwatch 12:30:39 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:34:20 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:41 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:43:15 -!- robotcentaur has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:02:16 -!- Camicio has quit [] 13:04:43 -!- duckroller has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:03 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:25 dpeg: moin 13:09:56 dpeg: what would you think about a chance of non-persistent levels when doing the ascension run in unnethack? 13:16:23 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:08 bhaak: you mean when the mysterious force hits again? 13:28:37 dpeg: there is no mysterious force in unnethack. every sensible variant kicks that as one of the first changes :). but yeah, only when you have the amulet would some levels be newly generated and replacing the one you already visited 13:30:16 bhaak: depends. On the one hand, there will be no point in pre-digging levels etc. On the other hand, why should their be *new* levels? You could just say that with the amulet the path to the elemental planes goes through X:1, ..., X:10 of a new branch. 13:30:21 that sounds kind of spoily 13:30:40 what if someone tried to stash on one of those levels? 13:31:18 In other words, I understand the gameplay change you want, but I don't see how the flavour could work, and if you're inclined to keep the 40 something levels between amulet ritual and planes, then something else might be better. 13:31:25 context: one of the devs wants to do a non persistent level as a kind of angband tribute. another dev ran with this idea. but I'm unsure what to think of it 13:31:33 SamB: the stash would be gone 13:31:55 exactly! 13:31:59 SamB: this is not really spoily. 1), you can tell players in advance, 2), they'll know after the first time. 13:32:14 (To me, a spoiler is about more subtle information.) 13:32:25 how would you tell players in advance? 13:32:36 dpeg: in-game explanation would be the "most powerful artifacts of them all" wraps the dungeon and tries to actively hinder your escape 13:32:37 give some kind of -Stash status on that level? 13:33:25 there is the ingame info about objects ... but we all know, nobody actually reads that careful enough :) 13:33:54 @deg, I wanna throw out a corollary to the idea for rune lock, which incidentally I really like in terms of player progression..... I had a very interesting decision point my last game: I collected the serpentine rune and the barnacled rune and just wanted to finish a 3-runer through Zot. I had a DrBe and if not for my love of Trog I was seriously considering going Jiyva to get the 3rd late game. The altar was outside th 13:34:35 "... outside the"? Your client cut the line. 13:34:53 ...my corollary suggestion is to always generate the altar there, presenting an interesting choice for the first rune.... beat snake/spider, or shoals/sawmp, or go Slime 13:35:57 I don't know the game as well as most but I know it is not always there 13:36:21 Don't know the exact probabilities for it being in the Slime Pits or elsewhere 13:36:57 robotcentaur: you seem to have missed kilobyte's telling you that you were cut off 13:37:12 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:37:54 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:38:02 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:55 robotcentaur: yes, I hear that from time to time. What about guaranteeing a Jiyva altar on Slime:1? 13:39:18 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:40:05 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 13:40:06 dpeg: thanks for the input. I think the part if it even achieves what it is intended to do is what was bothering me. 13:41:35 I think optimally its just out front cause pre-15 the gear corrosion in even Slime:1 makes it daunting till late game. Perhaps it could be outside Slime:1 or in Snake:1-4 or Swamp: 1-4 if generated. 13:41:36 bhaak: did you consider just circumventing the ascent? 13:42:25 then if the crawler does not want to do the 5th rune floor they say: "screw it, I'm going slime" 13:42:46 evilmike makes good comments on the list: rune lock would (and should) lead to different monster sets and (partially) different layouts used in early vs late dungeon. 13:43:10 robotcentaur: you can always do Slime! One of my favourite games was when slimy was the first rune (and for reasons). 13:44:11 it is daunting but definitely doable for most characters, especially just to get an altar on slime:1 13:44:15 dpeg: the ascension run is already quite fast in vanilla (no real resistance). the only thing you would gain is that the players can't go to his stash and stock up. right now in unnethack it's so that the monster generation is turned up to 11 and many monsters are placed near the stairs, so the player has to really fight his way up. 13:44:53 @dpeg: Slime has really kicked my butt, perhaps my fear is a bit irrational and an altar outside or Slime:1 is fine. 13:45:50 i guess i could have said all characters actually 13:46:00 i think even xl 1 sp can run in, map, run to altar =P 13:46:10 I died on ascension recently.... if the wrong Pan unique comes at the wrong time...toast 13:46:13 bhaak: well, in Crawl we have the same problem, and serial winners sometimes suggest to end the game when you pick up the orb 13:46:33 i am one of those 13:46:37 mikee_: well, the Slime:1 altar wouldn't need to be in the starting bubble, so digging might be necessary 13:46:45 or teleport, yes 13:46:46 mikee_: you are the epitome of serial winners :) 13:46:53 i mean who suggest that =P 13:47:12 it's a good opportunity for an ascii cut scene instead of an ascension run 13:47:21 or tiles cut scene 13:47:32 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:47:41 curious: what is the Jiyva altar gen logic now... deeper then Slime:1 and small chance on D fllors? 13:47:45 yes, I understand -- but I think you'll also understand that the run has some meaning for players who win less often 13:48:14 of course. maybe some other dramatic flair can give that meaning too though 13:48:26 Having died on the run I am in that group, want to run it out 13:48:39 dpeg: yeah, I know, I talked with jpeg about this once but she didn't have a good solution for crawl either. for unnethack I considered a different branch for the way up. but designing a good one that is also challenging is difficult. trying to make the way up more difficult for the player is the current "better than nothing" solution. 13:49:31 dpeg: I think a more popular suggestion is to end the game when you leave zot:5 or leave zot with the orb, actually 13:49:46 that is probably true 13:49:55 it's the 27 levels of explored D that are tedious 13:49:56 i am an extremist 13:50:32 zot is often only partially explored and zot:5 usually still has very dangerous stuff on it, and we could make zot orbrun more interesting/dangerous to compensate maybe 13:50:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:48 I agree but from a storytelling pov it is really nice to leave where you started. 13:52:26 -!- Ragnor has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:52:49 here's a crazy idea... if you have the orb, then the portal out of zot takes you to D:1 directly 13:52:54 -!- Sizzell has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:53:09 and there are demons and orb guardians everywhere, and you still have to get to the < 13:54:31 fill the level with 5s 13:55:01 -!- duckroller has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:55:04 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:15 elliptic: if you take care to climb every stair you see, "Gd1" will take the optimal path without any tedium 13:55:33 one issue with making D:1 dangerous is scumming for an entry vault with good < positioning, I guess 13:55:36 elliptic: the problem is, currently hardly anyone climbs obvious stairs to do so 13:55:37 kilobyte: right, I actually do that 13:55:52 and don't mind orbrun too much myself 13:56:30 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:13 well, I actually do X< to go up one level at a time because it is still safer 13:57:36 because you can see when it is going to move 200 squares and can teleport or dig to speed that up 13:57:39 you could have extra levels above D:1 that only appear when you have enough runes and then you fight your way back to your home and the game ends when you put the runes into a display cabinet! 13:57:51 Toggle to filter useless items from search results by BlackSheep 13:58:24 there are 15 different display cabinets, each guarded by a tough unique 13:58:32 you don't know which one will hold which rune 13:58:48 kilobyte: so yeah, actually I completely disagree that Gd1 does the "optimal path" unless you've dug everything out and don't have twisty_little_passageways or whatever 13:58:53 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:10 (incidentally, this would make 3-rune wins harder than 15-rune wins) 13:59:37 Zannick: can't you skip picking up the runes? 13:59:59 how does this help? 14:00:13 elliptic: how come? It is possible for it to take a sub-optimal path, but only if it has to backtrack a level. 14:00:23 kilobyte: I just said, digging and/or teleport 14:00:32 kilobyte: GD1 doesn't use digging to save 100 turns 14:00:45 ah, it doesn't use teleport, but yeah 14:00:46 it also doesn't teleport on twisty_little_passageways 14:01:26 the most dangerous thing you can do on orbrun is spend a long time on one level, since it means a much higher chance that all the stairs will end up guarded by nasty stuff 14:01:55 I even use teleport on normal levels when all the stairs are really far away 14:02:05 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:13 anyway I don't actually find orbrun that tedious myself, but I can see why people might 14:08:38 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:09:43 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:14 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:38 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:38 -!- runner has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:18:44 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:18:51 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:24:41 -!- themummra has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:33:13 game crash - ASSERT(mons_habitat(this) == HT_WATER) in 'mon-ench.cc' at line 1167 failed. by newideas 14:35:47 Just back from shoving kids->bed. 14:35:57 elliptic: hm, the orb->D:1 idea is neat 14:36:06 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:56 but I still think that the orb run doesn't take too long (but then, my games last around ten hours, so it matters less for me) 14:41:19 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:45:54 The problem about the orb run is less the length and more the lack of events. 14:48:57 Bloax: how much of the time between pressing Gd1 has no pan lord or at least a hell hound in view? 14:49:56 <|amethyst> replace the hell hounds with pan lords 14:49:59 <|amethyst> then it will be eventful 14:51:18 panlord hounds 14:51:31 the hounds of pan 14:51:50 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 14:54:50 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:55:37 kilobyte: oh no a pack of scroll burners are upon me 14:56:39 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Client Quit] 14:58:34 |amethyst: the orb run generation has been buffed by a lot recently 14:59:20 Well it's not as desolate as I recall it from back in 0.10. 15:01:11 -!- Pisano has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:03:43 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:15 instead of '3's, hell hounds and abominations, it's mostly any demon/orb guardian/greater demon 15:04:23 and pan lords, in a separate roll 15:04:33 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 15:04:33 -!- gammafunk_ is now known as gammafunk 15:10:08 -!- Silurio1 is now known as Silurio 15:19:27 Cherry-picked 3 commits into stone_soup-0.12 15:19:44 <|amethyst> this is 15:19:51 <|amethyst> %git stone_soup-0.12 15:19:51 07blackcustard02 {|amethyst} * 0.12.2-22-g286eab9: Fix a Kirke crash by deporkalating transiting hogs correctly. 10(3 weeks ago, 3 files, 29+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=286eab910b83 15:20:07 <|amethyst> and a two minor things that helped it apply without conflicts 15:20:21 <|amethyst> s/a two/two/ 15:20:39 mostly, you get some scares during the run, which suffices. Sometimes, you get in real trouble which always fine, too :) 15:21:26 dpeg: volcano_overflow seems to be a bad joke: you see some loot once you enter the main cavern but have no chance to get it (perhaps with haste and apportation...), it just becomes lava immediately 15:21:54 kilobyte: it is funny you say that right now... just yesterday I thought how that idea could be executed much better 15:22:01 (the basic idea is alright, imo) 15:22:45 -!- Infected is now known as Guest139 15:23:19 I'm not quite sure if I get the point: there might be a decision which side of the volcano to go (based on one or two items in your view), but that's all 15:24:14 dpeg: what was the point supposed to be? 15:24:24 a comment says "Of course, if you can fly, you've got a good chance of getting everything." -- which is untrue as items don't come back from the lava 15:24:33 Shadow creatures sometimes summons a number of monsters above its cap by CommanderC 15:24:54 how well is capping documented? 15:25:13 Ah, sorry, I thought about another volcano: the one, where you have a number of small caves which cave in. 15:26:13 that one is pretty random but mostly works 15:28:02 kilobyte: that volcano used to "work" (I remember getting around half the items), I guess it broke at some point 15:31:56 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:03 -!- walk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:36:41 !apt Gr 15:36:43 Gr: Fighting: 1, Short: -1, Long: -1, Axes: -1, Maces: 1, Polearms: -1, Staves: 1, Slings: -1, Bows: 0, Xbows: 0, Throw: 0, Armour: 1, Dodge: -2, Stealth: 2, Stab: 0, Shields: 1, Traps: -1, UC: 1!, Splcast: -1, Conj: 1, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: -1, Nec: -2, Tloc: -1, Tmut: -2, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: -2, Earth: 2, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 0, HP: -2, MP: 0 15:39:21 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:43:37 -!- Guest139 is now known as asdskakd 15:47:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:33 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:49:49 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 15:50:24 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:42 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:56:15 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:33 -!- asdskakd is now known as guyfox 15:58:56 -!- dosman711 is now known as dosman711` 16:03:26 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:49 -!- Stelpa_ has quit [Client Quit] 16:05:30 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:58 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:19 -!- steve2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:11:48 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:14:26 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:19:13 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:24:45 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:25:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:29:34 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:30:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 16:47:50 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:00 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:52:23 -!- sacje has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:08 -!- axujen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:19 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:55:13 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:27 -!- ChrisOelmueller has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:23 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:03:52 -!- robotcentaur has left ##crawl-dev 17:03:57 -!- robotcentaur has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:05:51 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:18:52 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:12 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:22:31 -!- petete has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:50 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:19 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 23.0/20130807024356]] 17:35:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:06 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:47:33 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:48:50 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 17:49:51 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:36 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 17:54:00 03galehar02 07* 0.13-a0-2773-g7c82b36: Don't activate Beogh's conversion before the priest makes his offer. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c82b3631c6d 17:56:42 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:02 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:59:22 <|amethyst> Nerf to orc summoners :) 17:59:47 -!- Gotham has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:55 ^| 18:00:05 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:18 <|amethyst> not a major one or anything, and flavourful 18:00:23 yes 18:00:43 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:01:02 I never figured out whose idea new Beogh conversion is/was. Pity :) 18:01:50 oh right i wanted to annoy someone into writing a new option 18:02:02 to hide all beogh-related status lights and conversion messages 18:02:18 because those are just really annoying 18:02:29 ChrisOelmueller: I am sure a better solution can be found 18:02:35 (than an option) 18:02:40 i'm not so sure about that, but possibly 18:03:04 remember when hiding -cTele was an option 18:03:07 ChrisOelmueller: You have to tell me: the problem is message/status spam for every orc priest you encounter as a HO? 18:03:21 yep, that's the issue 18:03:30 <|amethyst> how about an item that gives you a tattoo on your forehead that says "fuck Beogh"? 18:03:31 could just not show it if you already have a god 18:03:37 ChrisOelmueller: so what if we give the full deal only the first time in a game? 18:03:41 <|amethyst> then the orcs won't offer 18:03:43 and what alefury says 18:04:02 |amethyst: something containing an inverted cross perchance? 18:04:03 sounds like a start 18:04:15 players who know they won't convert anyways would just mute the related messages then 18:06:05 I'll have to play HO to make a specific proposal but I really think it can be done w/o option. 18:06:09 Options are evil! 18:06:22 so that's why rune lock 18:06:24 ;-) 18:06:32 <|amethyst> !lg dpeg lo 18:06:32 No games for dpeg (lo). 18:06:43 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 18:06:46 <|amethyst> dpeg: you could play an LO instead and kill two birds with one stone 18:06:47 <|amethyst> :) 18:07:02 I am playing my very first Gargoyle right now, haven't tried Dj or LO whatsoever yet. Was busy with bookless conduct games! 18:07:05 are those still orcs... 18:07:28 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 18:07:57 ChrisOelmueller: let's not get into this... Afaiu 0.13 will have Ga, which seems fine with everyone. The other ...issues... will be considered later. 18:08:09 oh, they are Ga now? 18:08:09 <|amethyst> dpeg: 22:26:23 it would be pretty funny if you could walk up to an orc priest and convert right there, with no altar. and then the priest baptizes you or something 18:09:06 <|amethyst> dpeg: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/%23%23crawl-dev-20130413.log 18:09:15 |amethyst: many thanks! evilmike definitely has it... 18:09:17 dpeg: yes, i'm trusting everyone else to also see the issues that e.g. Dj has and will always have 18:09:48 ChrisOelmueller: not so sure about the "will always have" but yes. (I'm responsible for DD and Vp, so I understand the desire to explore new paths.) 18:10:21 reason why i'm around actually is fishing testers for my relayouted Ctrl-O screen 18:10:33 <|amethyst> probably any one of the three new Djinn mechanics would be interesting on a race by itself 18:10:37 and now i managed to derail myself into all sorts of unfun things 18:10:56 ChrisOelmueller: what did you do to Ctrl-O -- relieving it from 80x24 constraints? 18:10:56 -!- Ganrao has quit [] 18:11:12 i'm 80x24 diehard, so no, but i changed some colors there 18:11:12 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: where at? 18:11:25 |amethyst: http://bpaste.net/show/qODpSVLhrB9LukaiLaRv/ 18:11:59 <|amethyst> dpeg: oh, actually, also (slightly earlier) 18:12:05 ChrisOelmueller: blasphemy!!! (The Ctrl-O screen is also by me :) 18:12:07 <|amethyst> dpeg: a priest monster that offers to stop beating you up if you convert 18:12:12 this most likely is not the final iteration, but i can only test so much with my own color scheme and preferences 18:12:53 <|amethyst> dpeg: so I guess at least two mikes can be blamed 18:14:19 |amethyst: thanks for digging up the history 18:14:28 just more evidence they're in fact the same person 18:14:33 don't believe the lies 18:16:10 at least they were clever enough to not use goodmike for the other incarnation 18:16:38 dpeg: Will the rune lock idea allow a speedrunner to do e.g. vaults before lair, or would that not be possible at all? 18:16:56 gammafunk: that would be gone. 18:17:15 they would have to get the abyss rune first 18:17:18 would be a shame; that's a quite challenging and fun (for some of us) thing to do 18:17:29 (I think we should never be guided by conduct/challenge games in design. Whatever we do, there will be no shortage of new conducts.) 18:18:06 yeah that's true, of course. I'll resent having to go grab a lair rune first, but what can you do 18:18:14 <|amethyst> dpeg: isn't that how we tested rune lock? :) 18:18:45 i was so disappointed the first time that banner appeared in a contest 18:18:57 Zannick: disappointed??? 18:19:04 and i got shafted 3 or 4 levels at once and got immediately disqualified 18:19:08 |amethyst: that is other, good way! 18:19:18 Zannick: ah, that's bad luck 18:19:41 dpeg: which is why i like at least the "shafts stop at d:14" part of the proposal 18:20:15 in that i can have a bit more confidence that i won't go too deep unintentionally 18:20:34 i was surprised that the glowing beogh sign wasn't sharply tied to xl 18:21:14 probably after a certain, rather early, point you should lose that option 18:21:35 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:38 mikee_: yes. You could also argue that the priests treat you as the lousy heretic that you are if you ignored three (or so) offers. 18:22:51 (Players can still use altars later on, so no huge deal.) 18:23:15 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 18:23:53 maybe that is actually better than an option or just hiding the status/message: no offer atall 18:24:21 -!- tkappleton has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:24:45 i'm sure some high level character who really wants beogh (why even at this point? =P) could manage to convert otherwise, yes 18:24:51 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:53 the only loss is not getting to see some desperate xl 20 hobe converting to beogh 18:26:30 mikee_: did that ever happen? 18:26:39 nothing so high level yet 18:26:52 some low level characters have abandoned a god though out of desperation 18:27:11 yes, always fun 18:27:24 !lm * recent god.worship=beogh hp<10 s=char 18:27:24 8 milestones for * (recent god.worship=beogh hp<10): 3x HOFi, 2x HOCK, LOSk, LOFi, LOMo 18:27:40 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:40 !lm * recent god.worship=beogh hp<20 s=char 18:27:40 51 milestones for * (recent god.worship=beogh hp<20): 13x LOFi, 13x HOFi, 6x LOSk, 5x HOGl, 3x HOMo, 3x HOSk, 2x HOCK, 2x HOFE, 2x LOMo, HOBe, HOAr 18:27:52 nice, one be 18:28:19 <|amethyst> !lm * recent god.worship=beogh s=god 18:28:20 503 milestones for * (recent god.worship=beogh): 503x Beogh 18:28:24 !lg * hobe god=beogh 18:28:25 6. flappity the Skirmisher (L6 HOBe), worshipper of Beogh, slain by a worker ant on D:4 on 2013-08-14 05:40:43, with 478 points after 3131 turns and 0:19:48. 18:28:58 <|amethyst> hm, maybe we should write the milestone before changing the god 18:29:01 zermako converted with an enslaved priest that later lost charm and killed him 18:29:06 that might actually be a bug 18:29:30 hey nice 18:30:03 <|amethyst> mikee_: how long ago? 18:30:09 <|amethyst> %git 36d089c 18:30:09 07Medar02 * 0.13-a0-1579-g36d089c: Make enslaved priests neutral on Beogh conversion 10(2 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=36d089cf0d1e 18:30:28 !lm zermako god.worship=beogh 18:30:29 11. [2013-08-06 12:11:54] Zermako the Chopper (L4 HOFi) became a worshipper of Beogh on turn 1942. (D:3) 18:30:39 |amethyst: i think we still want the new god name in there, just need a new column of old god (unless it already exists) 18:30:55 <|amethyst> Zannick: the new god name is already in "noun" 18:30:55 i think it is that one 18:30:55 !lm zermako god.worship=beogh -game 18:30:56 Zermako:cao:20130706120857S. Zermako the Cleaver (L6 HOFi), worshipper of Beogh, mangled by an ogre (a +0,+0 giant spiked club) on D:5 on 2013-08-06 12:15:12, with 594 points after 3483 turns and 0:06:14. 18:31:03 although i guess that's covered in god.abandon 18:31:32 <|amethyst> !lm * god.abandon god=beogh s=noun 18:31:32 No milestones for * (god.abandon god=beogh). 18:31:38 ok, so we need a decision: should orc priests stop offering Beogh worship after a limited time (this could come with a message) or should we suppress the spam but keep the ability? 18:31:44 -!- dosman711` is now known as dosman711 18:32:12 |amethyst: aren't god and noun synonyms for god. milestones? 18:32:17 !lm * god.abandon 18:32:17 18636. [2013-08-23 21:17:02] Bastard the Conqueror (L27 GrMo) abandoned Okawaru on turn 90040. (D:1) 18:32:28 |amethyst, looks like it might be before that patch 18:32:30 <|amethyst> !lm * god.abandon x=god,noun 18:32:31 18636. [2013-08-23 21:17:02] [god=;noun=Okawaru] Bastard the Conqueror (L27 GrMo) abandoned Okawaru on turn 90040. (D:1) 18:32:37 june 9th 18:32:37 ah 18:32:52 <|amethyst> !lm * god.abandon s=god,noun 18:32:53 18636 milestones for * (god.abandon): 18636x (2980x Okawaru, 2263x Trog, 2136x The Shining One, 1914x Xom, 1664x Zin, 1641x Elyvilon, 859x Lugonu, 838x Kikubaaqudgha, 828x Yredelemnul, 601x Nemelex Xobeh, 596x Vehumet, 574x Makhleb, 532x Sif Muna, 355x Ashenzari, 319x Cheibriados, 245x Fedhas, 193x Beogh, 95x Jiyva, 3x Feawn) 18:32:59 oh ok, so fixed 18:33:15 <|amethyst> oh, apparently *that* milestone is created before they get the new god 18:34:33 <|amethyst> mikee_: oh, that's even the same game that the bug report links to: #7195 18:34:39 haha 18:34:57 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:35:14 <|amethyst> (didn't notice at first because the report was written by I.W. 18:35:17 <|amethyst> ) 18:35:42 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: the only thing I don't like is the low contrast of lightgrey vs white in the shops section 18:35:59 |amethyst: hmm i was wondering how that would look on other folks' machines 18:36:04 -!- Geisteskrass has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36:16 for my color set lightgrey/white is like, huge huge huge contrast 18:36:48 but i don't suppose termcasting would transmit your colors, so hmm maybe a screenshot works 18:37:17 how does darkgrey look there for the places? 18:37:35 semantic nonsense of course, but if it works better... so be it 18:37:56 btw, we wondered whether Ctrl-O could/should indicate which runes you collected -- what do you think? 18:38:33 didn't use to be very relevant until soon in the future 18:38:54 <|amethyst> dpeg: with a sigil next to the branch? 18:38:58 for now, i wouldn't include it, there's an extra screen that works better 18:39:01 <|amethyst> because there's not much room for a list 18:39:05 ChrisOelmueller: yes but it'd indicate the difference between "set foot into branch end" and "(most likely) finished this branch" 18:39:10 ChrisOelmueller, i am so confused by the tense in that sentence 18:39:18 mikee_: that was intentional! 18:39:23 <|amethyst> willen haven-been 18:39:32 gehabt zu haben sein 18:40:02 Does English not ship with a Future II? 18:40:09 -!- rphillips has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:12 imo recolor the branch name to something exciting when the rune is obtained 18:40:21 the other screen doesn't work better, unless you remember the rune names by heart 18:40:34 i wouldn't recolor the name, but the depth indicator 18:40:37 with a little legend at the bottom of overview: * (color) = rune obtained 18:40:50 and no legend 18:41:03 mikee_: I would say the other way around: when I am looking at Ctrl-O, the branches with runes are uninteresting for me... they should be easy to miss, not easy to see 18:41:26 yes, no space for legends (lines are at a prime!) 18:41:53 Medar: well, no opposition to including the branch/panlord name in } screen 18:42:00 <|amethyst> dpeg: "will have been", but the difficulty here is "used to be" is defective 18:42:18 ChrisOelmueller: including list of missing runes would also help a lot 18:42:27 please don't :-) 18:42:28 |amethyst: grammar genius 18:42:37 anything that implies 15 runes is the standard is just wrong 18:42:57 btw, the rune list could benefit from more information (there's oodles of space), e.g. time when fetche3d 18:43:15 and i don't see a way of presenting that list in a way that doesn't imply or convey "missing" somehow 18:43:24 mmm 18:43:29 ChrisOelmueller: coloured vs darkgrey, as always 18:43:42 (this colour branch marking makes me wonder: does crawl put effort into being playable on monochrome terminals?) 18:43:45 ahm, sorry, missed your point 18:44:09 crawl might, i certainly don't 18:44:13 nooodl: I don'T think so, but there seem to be blind players... I once asked one if he could need further support, and he said no 18:44:23 <|amethyst> nooodl: nope 18:44:44 btw, blind players is a great reason to keep ASCII forever 18:44:48 <|amethyst> nooodl: however, since most things are re-glyphable and re-colourable now... 18:44:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:53 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:46:26 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: darkgrey looks okay, but as you said "semantic nonsense" 18:47:24 hmmh 18:47:45 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: the thing is, my white and lightgrey aren't all that close for me 18:48:21 i considered aligning the places table-like but the huge variance between 'D', 'Elf', 'Vaults' which are all likely to have shops just made it look horrible 18:48:46 ChrisOelmueller: yes, I saw no better way than to list them 18:48:53 -!- Chozo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:50:34 also i didn't check the code for whether the comment "there can at most be 5 shops" was lying 18:51:11 ChrisOelmueller: for random generation that is the maximum but vaults can increase the number ... happens sometimes on Orc:4 18:53:44 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: I guess it's fine really; looks better than any of the alternatives I've tried (lg/brown/yellow, dg/w/yellow, brown/w/yellow) 18:54:42 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.13-a0-2774-g869a57a: Fix god name alignment in Ctrl-O 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=869a57a6b2be 18:54:42 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.13-a0-2775-g2ff8484: Color overhaul for Ctrl-O 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 8+ 34-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2ff848449808 18:54:42 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.13-a0-2776-g5b28ffd: Color overhaul for Ctrl-O, section Shops 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 22+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b28ffd06f0a 18:56:10 heh okay, that works 18:56:35 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:51 <|amethyst> I beta tested it first! 18:56:54 <|amethyst> :) 18:57:12 if you see complaints someplace i don't frequent (i.e. tavern) - just this time i am interested 18:58:01 one branch down 18:58:09 now on to EASY_EXIT for ctrl-O 18:58:26 does anyone remember why that was deemed the best possible mode? 18:58:43 no idea anymore 18:58:44 it's really annoying as soon as the content does not fit one page 18:59:04 <|amethyst> oh, I use terminals so big I'd never really noticed 18:59:09 i'm adding proper -more- lines to some dialogs, and for some reason ^O has that weird one 19:00:29 but i *guess* maybe it's useful for early on where you just have one page and can scroll it away 19:01:19 <|amethyst> or big terminals :P 19:01:26 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:01:44 unsupported in my book 19:01:50 <3 19:01:51 well okay my terminal is big 19:01:54 just not huge 19:02:19 elitists among console players: "80x24 or death!" 19:02:29 |amethyst: how do you usually close that screen then? 19:02:57 usability research with N=1, perfect 19:03:57 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:04:03 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:07 <|amethyst> I'm not sure 19:04:12 dpeg: i'm kind of infamous for usually running 81x25, but i try to remember to downsize when dealing with crawl 19:04:16 <|amethyst> both space and escape seem natual to me 19:04:31 ChrisOelmueller: many thanks these changes... this stuff hasn't been looked into for years. If I have something to say on the matter, I'll tell you. 19:04:35 <|amethyst> what I mean is I hadn't really considered that it would be multi-page 19:05:01 <|amethyst> also, I have easy exit on 19:05:10 oh, hah 19:05:31 <|amethyst> oh, wait 19:05:33 <|amethyst> no, I used to 19:05:38 dpeg: sure, it's probably the least controversial help with crawl i can offer, so i'm doing that 19:05:40 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:06:00 <|amethyst> if I actually got to where it was multi-page in a real game, it probably would annoy me, yes 19:06:13 anyways sounds like i can't kill it then, i personally annotate lots of stuff early so i tend to hit 2 pages rather soon 19:06:14 ChrisOelmueller: well, the jelly vaults weren't so bad in the end :) 19:06:21 <|amethyst> otoh, if it weren't easy exit when one page that would annoy me too 19:06:32 dpeg: actually the one that's not yours still kills many, many players 19:06:51 even after i hot-patched it down 19:06:51 this sounds like we can make it better than with an option, again 19:07:10 ChrisOelmueller: the enclosed one? 19:07:21 <|amethyst> My thought is a new flag MF_EASY_EXIT_ONEPAGE 19:07:29 yes 19:07:34 dpeg: lasty_cornered, which is rather enclosed yeah 19:07:40 <|amethyst> which would mean "make it easy exit when one page, otherwise use the player's option" 19:08:03 |amethyst: exactly 19:08:18 okay, so for now i won't touch the mode for ctrl-O then and wait a bit 19:08:52 enough other stuff to be looked at anyways before i can ask anyone to push, in particular the inventory screen drives me crazy 19:09:12 How do I go about suggesting that orc priests beyond the third one do not try to make the player take on Beogh anymore? 19:10:35 |amethyst: oh if you're working with that code, hold on a second 19:10:53 |amethyst: http://bpaste.net/show/tsLOVe19MR9PDo3YxFBB/ 19:11:07 (hopefully that does not-wrong things) 19:12:00 also i didn't bother writing a commit message, meh 19:15:21 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:38 -!- walk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:20:07 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:09 <|amethyst> dpeg: get ChrisOelmueller to implement it and I'll commit it :) 19:21:06 <|amethyst> I have not so much time to write code for at least a few weeks 19:21:12 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 19:21:48 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 19:22:18 ChrisOelmueller: erm, would you? :) 19:23:55 maybe try some dev first? galehar looked like he's seen the code 19:24:24 <|amethyst> kilobyte implemented it 19:24:24 ah, good point! 19:24:37 but galehar fixed a bug just now 19:29:31 -!- blackswan_ has quit [Client Quit] 19:30:30 |amethyst: actually you really don't want to apply that patch, it breaks things 19:30:46 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: thanks for the heads-up :) 19:31:45 sorry for the noise rather 19:33:00 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:34:36 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:00 Does Xom-swap respect those ~'no tele into' tags? I have a ice rooms serial, so this would be a better question for ##crawl, but I don't think anyone there knows the answer. 19:39:04 -!- Aidenn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:26 dpeg: what would be the reason to that? If the first nine fail to forcibly convert you, tenth may still succeed. You can't leave infidels unconverted and alive, you know. 19:44:01 -!- maurer_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:45:45 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:11 kilobyte: it is annoying to read the message spam all the time: your guy may theoretically be swayed but you wonÄT 19:46:16 't be 19:46:44 well, no different from a tengu flying, a FE running around with a delayed fball or a demonspawn having RMsl 19:47:14 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:47:57 although, what if the status light appeared without any extra message? 19:48:00 the FE *chose* to cast Delayed Fireball, and all of these are useful 19:48:18 so is the opportunity to surrender to Beogh 19:48:28 kilobyte: would still lead to players wishing for an option to hide it, I am pretty sure 19:49:28 I fought for an option to hide -cTele in places where it's always on, but after a number of iterations I finally gave up 19:49:45 kilobyte: from what I can tell listening to complaints, it's the messages more than the status light that annoy people 19:50:43 would it be enough for conversion spam to not be pretty much constant? 19:51:02 elliptic: so let's axe superfluous messages then 19:51:07 especially for low-level priests 19:51:57 that would fit theme-wise: a lowbie priests sees you and realizes he has no real chances to subdue you 19:52:53 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:53:04 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:54:13 and flees or converts himself? 19:56:33 that's not how "force infidels to convert" religions usually work :p 20:01:26 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 20:03:08 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: welp cya] 20:05:19 -!- walk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:06:38 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:07:02 kilobyte: we have never formalised DCSS decision making... can you live with me asking for a rune lock commit as soon as the tournament is over? That way we don't detract from release and tournament, and have plenty of time playing the thing. 20:10:06 dpeg: sure. Heck, perhaps even what evilmike suggested might be better: to commit it now, but disable before forking off 0.13 20:10:25 hm, I cannot judge that 20:10:33 any opinions? 20:11:29 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:12:50 we already had auto-revert code before 20:13:16 I think it is mostly a matter if we want players to discuss this before release or not 20:13:40 I am certainly fine either way: I would really like to see the rune lock tried and played, and I never care about which version 20:15:04 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 20:16:15 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:22:32 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 20:24:18 please tell me -- sleep here 20:24:20 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:24:48 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:10 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:29:38 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 20:33:53 -!- alefury has quit [] 20:50:25 -!- Pisano has quit [] 20:55:18 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:05:27 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:33 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 21:10:27 -!- underisk has quit [Quit: underisk] 21:12:38 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:35 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:14:38 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:22:16 -!- Shade_Tornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:38 -!- tkappleton1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:01 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:15 -!- Cheibrodos has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:34 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:34:14 -!- tkappleton2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:30 -!- enygmata has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:38 -!- Nightdew has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:42 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:50:51 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:41 -!- knaveightt has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:58:11 -!- Nightbeer is now known as Ladykiller69 22:05:13 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:06:41 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:52 -!- wya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:08:17 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:11:45 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:16 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:19:22 -!- Sprort has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:35 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:28:07 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:32:30 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 22:46:07 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 22:48:58 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:30 -!- Gotham has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:26 -!- Nightdew has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:18 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:42 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:31 -!- Nightdew has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:18 -!- Pisano has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:01 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 23:06:03 -!- Nightdew has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:13 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 23:06:21 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:09:29 -!- walk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:09:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:11:20 -!- agolden has quit [Quit: agolden] 23:13:50 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:14:10 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.12.2-22-g286eab9 23:16:41 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 23:18:39 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:16 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:21:06 <|amethyst> oh, hey, self-meph is buggy 23:21:13 <|amethyst> s/buggy/broken/ 23:25:30 -!- Senjai is now known as crucify_me 23:25:43 -!- crucify_me is now known as Senjai 23:26:18 s/self-// 23:26:58 <|amethyst> Different kind of "broken" :P 23:27:47 <|amethyst> I need to get myself a nice 12-core machine for home 23:27:55 <|amethyst> that would make bisect go so much quicker 23:29:00 go all-out and get one with 127 cores! 23:29:24 nevermind if that's a prime number! 23:29:40 which it is 23:30:17 maybe 126 core, since that has a few factors 23:30:28 -!- ebarrett has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:59 -!- namad8 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:28 <|amethyst> does x86_64 or Linux have a 127-core limit? 23:31:54 there are only 255 apic IDs possible 23:32:19 -!- Nightdew has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:23 <|amethyst> also, I'm sure the memory bandwidth requirements for 127 cores are perfectly reasonable 23:32:25 and I was assuming hyperthreading-capable cores 23:32:57 I assume you'd have some kind of NUMA 23:33:43 <|amethyst> I think at that point I'd probably just build a cluster and use distcc :) 23:33:47 (FFh is reserved to mean "broadcast to all APICs") 23:35:32 -!- Nightdew has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:01 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:42:58 -!- Nightdew has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:45 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:51 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2776-g5b28ffd (34) 23:48:05 <|amethyst> found the bug 23:48:09 <|amethyst> introduced by 23:48:12 <|amethyst> %git e97dbc3 23:48:13 07ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} * 0.13-a0-2694-ge97dbc3: Reduce item destruction chance for AC characters 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 5+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e97dbc312689 23:48:13 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:48:18 <|amethyst> but really the problem is this 23:48:25 <|amethyst> if (affects_items) 23:48:25 <|amethyst> { 23:48:25 <|amethyst> if (is_explosion) 23:48:25 <|amethyst> expose_items_to_element(flavour, pos(), 5); 23:48:25 <|amethyst> affect_place_clouds(); 23:48:49 <|amethyst> } 23:49:52 <|amethyst> can any clouds other than fire and cold hurt items? 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