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00:01:38 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2505-g5f0fbe2 (34)
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01:58:56 <ProzacElf> !tell DracoOmega Would it make sense to have force lance's knockback work better on flying monsters?
01:58:57 <Henzell> ProzacElf: OK, I'll let dracoomega know.
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03:43:48 <Nivim> FR: L9 Charms/Transmutation spell that temporarily negates bad mutations and posates fabulous mutations.
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03:55:23 <Cheibriados> Player can choose right destination of evocation while he is confused. <https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7390> by crawling_away
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04:08:46 <ontoclasm> probably you just shouldn't be able to use  those when confused
04:09:07 <ontoclasm> or it should do something bizarre instead of working correctly
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04:19:37 <Nivim> ontoclasm: Not to stop any fun from implementing bizarre things, but wouldn't it work kinda like wands, since confusion doesn't effect the effect of Evocations on their power?
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04:20:24 <Nivim> I guess you'd get weirdness from using the Stone on something other than a wall (probably still wasting the turn), or trying to use the Lamp right into a corner, but that's about it.
04:22:04 <ontoclasm> firing in a random direction could work too
04:22:26 <ontoclasm> mainly it just shouldn't work correctly
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04:34:48 <Ruffell> Kalma (L16 DjEn) ERROR: range check error (-50 / 17) (Shoals:4)
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07:26:40 <ontoclasm> !messages
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07:26:41 <Henzell> No messages for ontoclasm.
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08:25:59 <Bloax> guys
08:26:09 <Bloax> if you really want something bright let's just https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/BrightBog.png
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09:47:50 <Bloax> And I post that because the tile that got in looks butchered.
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09:58:13 <ontoclasm> that looks fine, i'll put it in
09:59:48 <ontoclasm> ugggh why must you build so slowly, crawl
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10:13:28 <Cheibriados> 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-2506-g18f770e: Alter some abyss wall/floor tile colors 10(19 minutes ago, 79 files, 13+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=18f770e2b0f0
10:13:28 <Cheibriados> 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-2507-g688a8de: Bog body (bloax) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=688a8de092c2
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10:34:49 <ontoclasm> edlothiol: i was just looking at https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6073
10:35:03 <ontoclasm> is the branch you made still current-ish?
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10:49:23 <edlothiol> ontoclasm: er... not really
10:49:44 <ontoclasm> hah, i figured
10:49:54 <ontoclasm> i'm trying to rebase it right now but i've never done this before so uh >.>
10:49:59 <ontoclasm> we'll see how it goes
10:50:02 <edlothiol> I'll take a look too
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10:57:05 <edlothiol> hm, that wasn't too bad
10:57:10 <edlothiol> just one conflict
10:57:33 <ontoclasm> so, for future reference, i can see that HEAD is the right version
10:57:42 <ontoclasm> so what do i do to tell it that and move on?
10:57:50 <ontoclasm> just edit it manually?
10:58:49 <edlothiol> most of the time, I just edit it manually, yes... you can also do git checkout --theirs [file] or git checkout --ours [file], but I'm not sure which is which for rebases
10:59:35 <edlothiol> although if you had the same conflict as I, HEAD isn't completely the right version
11:00:19 <edlothiol> the conflict I got was the door tile change in tileview.cc
11:00:34 <ontoclasm> yeah, that's what i got
11:01:38 <edlothiol> I think you would at least need to add the new crypt door tile to the check, or just replace the check with the whole list of door tiles by the is_door_tile call
11:02:10 <ontoclasm> ah, i see
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11:11:19 <edlothiol> well, it seems to be working, though I haven't seen any doors yet
11:17:12 <ontoclasm> once my laptop finishes the interminable process of building crawl i'll see if anything's messed up
11:17:30 <ontoclasm> runed doors in particular didn't exist then so i don't know how they'll interact
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11:19:05 <ontoclasm> thanks for putting this together, by the way
11:20:55 <MarvinPA> hmm... what's the difference between mons_can_be_zombified and mons_zombifiable supposed to be
11:20:56 <Henzell> MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
11:21:46 <Henzell> BeardTony the Eclecticist (L15 DjCj) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 424 failed on turn 46080. (D:15)
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11:23:33 <MarvinPA> i guess something in one of them needs to be changed to make shapeshifter simulacra not work but i have no idea what
11:28:40 <Cheibriados> 03ChrisOelmueller 07* 0.13-a0-2508-g925c3d3: Correct a few comments misguided about Elf and Vaults depth 10(3 days ago, 9 files, 19+ 19-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=925c3d30d6b0
11:28:40 <Cheibriados> 03ChrisOelmueller 07* 0.13-a0-2509-g1e8a74e: Fix lots of typos 10(19 hours ago, 62 files, 186+ 186-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1e8a74ea0b0e
11:28:40 <Cheibriados> 03ChrisOelmueller 07* 0.13-a0-2510-gdd4c003: Fix typos in tutorial/hints mode messages 10(19 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd4c0038fd2a
11:28:40 <Cheibriados> 03ChrisOelmueller 07* 0.13-a0-2511-gf375626: Fix typo breaking a LOS test 10(19 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f375626fc541
11:28:40 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2512-g88fee09: Mark Discord as hasty for Chei 10(22 hours ago, 2 files, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=88fee0929bab
11:28:40 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2513-gf66bc74: Make negative levels of rF consistently give steam vulnerability (#5998) 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f66bc745747b
11:29:56 <Bloax> >Mark Discord as hasty for Chei
11:30:05 <ontoclasm> rip cheicord
11:30:09 <Bloax> o_O?
11:30:19 <Bloax> Is it because of temporal distortion?
11:30:39 <ontoclasm> discord frenzies guys, which causes them to move faster
11:30:59 <ontoclasm> so it is sort of Mass Haste Plus Confusion
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11:39:57 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2514-g84b5ae8: Another tutorial typo fix (ChrisOelmueller) 10(81 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=84b5ae858a24
11:41:39 <LexAckson> Discord is a new spell?
11:41:47 <LexAckson> ??Discord
11:42:12 <Henzell> discord[1/1]: Level 8 Hexes spell, new in 0.13. Has a chance to cause enemies in LOS to go into {frenzy}.
11:42:21 <LexAckson> neat
11:42:31 <LexAckson> but spells are for wizards
11:42:43 <LexAckson> and wizards must get the axe
11:43:04 <Zannick> Axe Elementalist
11:43:31 <LexAckson> DeBe?
11:43:54 <LexAckson> That should be the title for a De that gets to 27 axes
11:45:34 <LexAckson> So, I've got this branch on my Gitorious that has working buff spell automatic extension
11:45:59 <LexAckson> There are a couple interface issues though.
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11:47:04 <LexAckson> The implementation I have now works like this,
11:47:14 <LexAckson> You cast the spell and it costs normal mp
11:48:01 <LexAckson> Then when that is about to run out, you pay mp/turn to keep it active
11:48:16 <LexAckson> You can cast again to turn it off
11:48:34 <ontoclasm> that sounds dangerous
11:48:47 <LexAckson> However, there is a chance that your buff will fail if you are bad at casting
11:49:13 <ontoclasm> i don't want the game randomly taking a turn for me to recast swiftness when i'm standing next to cerebov
11:49:15 <LexAckson> Though I think we could get rid of that part and just make it cost more mp/turn if you are bad.
11:49:23 <LexAckson> it does not take turns
11:49:39 <LexAckson> it just keeps the spell active and pays mp
11:49:45 <ontoclasm> oh
11:49:46 <LexAckson> not all at once, mp/turn
11:50:35 <LexAckson> i guess my question is, is it important to have the buffs still miscast?
11:51:22 <LexAckson> i mean, you don't want flight to miscast when you are over water
11:52:00 <LexAckson> currently i have it just give the normal 'running out' message for buffs if you miscast, and they will end when that runs out
11:52:04 <ontoclasm> if it "miscasts" a few turns before the duration runs out then it usually wouldn't kill you
11:52:32 <ontoclasm> what's a vault with lots of large gates
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11:52:54 <LexAckson> hmm
11:53:00 <alefury|2> ontoclasm: terrible?
11:53:26 <alefury|2> probably ##crawl is a better place to ask
11:53:53 <ontoclasm> alefury|2: don't worry, i found some naturally occuring ones!
11:54:05 <ontoclasm> and... they're broken T-T
11:54:09 <ontoclasm> i can fix em though
11:55:22 <ontoclasm> edlothiol: everything looks perfect in crypt-tiles, with the exception of large sealed doors
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11:55:47 <ontoclasm> which is just a matter of fixing their display code to recognize crypt doors as actual doors
11:58:25 <ackack> i think the funness of beogh might increase by about 300% if i could get a menu  on recall choosing who and what to recall
11:58:43 <ackack> i get why you don't want the ability to control individual summons
11:59:24 <ackack> but being able to recall specific guys seems likely to be actually less hassle
11:59:43 <ackack> as is when i recall at the moment i get about 75 orcs, most of whom are worthless
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12:09:01 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2514-g84b5ae8 (34)
12:09:45 <ontoclasm> ackack: lead them "accidentally" into an ambush and get them all murdered
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12:10:32 <ackack> fine, but given that so much else seems to be about creating reasonable interfaces, why does this one suck so hard?
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12:24:31 <Henzell> BeardTony the Eclecticist (L15 DjCj) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 424 failed on turn 46491. (D:15)
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12:43:18 <blackcustard> !crash
12:43:26 <blackcustard> !lg BeardTony
12:43:27 <Sequell> 158. BeardTony the Insei (L6 DgTm), mangled by Grinder on D:4 on 2013-07-22 21:06:11, with 510 points after 4640 turns and 0:09:26.
12:43:30 <blackcustard> !lg BeardTony -log
12:43:30 <Sequell> 158. BeardTony, XL6 DgTm, T:4640: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/BeardTony/morgue-BeardTony-20130722-210611.txt
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12:51:00 <blackcustard> can someone grab his save? he's triggered that crash three times; same floor; doing different things. might be some sort of data corruption and it would be really helpful to have the save
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12:53:44 <blackcustard> actually the one back in june was a different file. but the most recent two are the same one
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12:55:59 <Cheibriados> Ashenzari does not protect against Aizul's sleep <https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7391> by moxian
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14:19:57 <LexAckson> do we still use practise()?
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14:22:40 <LexAckson> hmm it seems so
14:28:01 <blackcustard> "ASSERT(mgrd(mons->pos()) == s);" followed immediately by "if (mgrd(mons->pos()) != s)"
14:28:11 <blackcustard> :S
14:28:49 <blackcustard> well i guess it makes sense actually. nvm. the whole function is basically an assertion
14:29:05 <blackcustard> it just caught me off guard
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14:38:47 <ontoclasm> uh, do sealed large gates look right in current trunk
14:38:57 <ontoclasm> because i have no clue why the hell this isn't working
14:40:22 <ontoclasm> ...oh
14:40:25 <ontoclasm> haha, i'm dumb
14:40:44 <ontoclasm> ......wait, no
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14:45:28 <ontoclasm> %git HEAD^{/vertical}
14:45:29 <Cheibriados> 07galehar * 0.12-a0-196-gf8f7108: Tiles for vertical gates (ontoclasm, #6105). 10(11 months ago, 8 files, 25+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f8f710846ad9
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14:54:48 <LexAckson> what would be the simplest interface for ending a buff spell?
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15:11:00 <ontoclasm1> oh, wonderful
15:11:10 <ontoclasm1> the bug in question is in trunk rather than this branch
15:11:10 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  a menu probably
15:11:15 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  just like transformations
15:11:19 <ontoclasm1> that helps! ... sort of
15:11:23 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  err, 'a' menu I mean
15:12:21 <ontoclasm1> that means the branch is safe to merge i guess :/
15:12:41 <LexAckson> hmm
15:13:03 <LexAckson> so, just one ability then?
15:13:19 <LexAckson> and end all buffs ability?
15:13:30 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  well, one per buff (or set of mutually exclusive buffs, like transformations)
15:13:54 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  maybe that becomes too unwieldy at some point, though
15:14:05 <LexAckson> yeah
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15:14:39 <|amethyst> that's really the only interface for it currently
15:15:03 <LexAckson> can we do better
15:15:05 <|amethyst> so anything different would probably need more UI etc to be written
15:15:16 <ontoclasm1> fr remove buffs
15:15:26 <ontoclasm1> problem solved
15:15:31 <LexAckson> what do you actually need to end buffs for
15:15:49 <ontoclasm1> LexAckson: airstrike? stealth?
15:16:03 <|amethyst> preventing contam from invis
15:16:06 <ontoclasm1> not wanting to roast allies with ring of flame?
15:16:09 <LexAckson> haha
15:16:36 <LexAckson> well, i was not including invis/haste in the extended spells
15:16:49 <LexAckson> because glow and brokenness
15:16:55 <ontoclasm1> really, the best solution i've heard to the "permabuff" thing is to make having a buff up constantly be a really stupid idea
15:16:58 <MarvinPA> why should you be able to end them at will, you can't currently and it's fine
15:17:08 <MarvinPA> and yeah that still sounds like a much better solution to me
15:17:11 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  you can end some currently
15:17:27 <LexAckson> i would actually be okay with removing buffs lol
15:17:32 <LexAckson> at least
15:17:36 <ontoclasm1> so uh, if i want to merge a branch into master
15:17:46 <LexAckson> remove all buffs that you would want to have up for more than a short time
15:17:52 <ontoclasm1> do i merge it into my local master branch, then push the result?
15:18:07 <ontoclasm1> or do i do some weird thing on gitorious
15:18:08 <|amethyst> ontoclasm1:  that works, though I usually don't touch local master
15:18:18 <|amethyst> ontoclasm1:  so instead I make a new branch that is a clone of master, merge into that, and push that to remote master
15:18:36 <ontoclasm1> ok
15:18:38 <LexAckson> MarvinPA, if you don't want to run out of mp perhaps?
15:18:40 <|amethyst> ontoclasm1:  but doing it directly in local master isn't a problem really
15:18:59 <|amethyst> it just makes it slightly more likely you'll accidentally push the wrong thing at some point
15:19:02 <|amethyst> or get out of sync
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15:19:52 <LexAckson> also if your permabuff spell is miscasting wildly
15:21:20 <LexAckson> so what i'm working with now, recasts for zero turns every time your spell runs out, and it spreads the mp cost over the duration of the spell
15:21:35 <LexAckson> so if you got int drained or something
15:21:43 <LexAckson> with dmsl up
15:21:48 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  how does cost spreading work?
15:21:49 <LexAckson> and started miscastin
15:21:56 <LexAckson> ahh, yes
15:22:08 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  does it determine the duration when first cast, and divide by that?
15:22:17 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  if so, what happens if it does end early
15:22:31 <LexAckson> it just adds the cost of casting the spell
15:22:36 <LexAckson> to a 'tax'
15:22:47 <LexAckson> which is like negative mp regen
15:22:55 <Cheibriados> Health & Mana bars not shown on character icon after dying & starting a new game <https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7392> by morik
15:22:59 <LexAckson> except that you have to pay off an amout that is calculated each turn
15:23:03 <|amethyst> first cast takes full MP though?
15:23:31 <LexAckson> yeah
15:23:55 <|amethyst> plus the tax, or does the tax start on the first renewal?
15:24:01 <LexAckson> on the first renewal
15:24:16 <MarvinPA> so do you have to manually toggle off every single buff with this
15:24:32 <LexAckson> that's what i'm trying to decide now
15:24:41 <LexAckson> but here:         int n = std::min(you.mana_tax/15,
15:24:41 <LexAckson> you.mana_tax*you.mana_tax/(you.max_magic_points*100));
15:24:50 <LexAckson> that is how much you pay each turn
15:25:05 <LexAckson> it makes it a pretty smooth curve
15:27:06 <LexAckson> i think it might be better to just have one 'a'bility
15:27:10 <LexAckson> to turn all of them off
15:27:20 <LexAckson> because you would only need to do this rarely
15:27:59 <ontoclasm1> here goes nothin'
15:28:00 <MarvinPA> wouldn't you need to do it every time you cast any buff, or is there some manual way of activating the recasting too
15:28:44 <LexAckson> i have only some buffs that use perma-mode
15:29:04 <LexAckson> there is no regular mode for those
15:29:10 <MarvinPA> ok but you'd need to do it every time you cast one of those
15:29:20 <LexAckson> well only if you wanted the spell to end
15:29:41 <LexAckson> if you could afford to cast it normally all the time
15:29:51 <LexAckson> you will be able to have it on and get back to max mp
15:29:58 <|amethyst> right, but what if you don't want it on all the time?
15:30:02 <|amethyst> e.g. swiftness
15:30:03 <LexAckson> see
15:30:08 <LexAckson> that's the tricky part
15:30:16 <LexAckson> i think that those spells should not have perma-mode
15:30:26 <|amethyst> there aren't a lot of buffs that you'd want to always be permanent... maybe rmsl (not necessarily dmsl because of the cost)
15:30:29 <LexAckson> but i'm not sure that's the most intuitve way to do it
15:30:49 <|amethyst> how many spells *would* have perma-mode then?
15:30:52 <LexAckson> |amethyst, yeah i sort of came to that conclusion at some point
15:30:59 <LexAckson> let me get the current list
15:31:03 <MarvinPA> the ones that you'd want to be permanent are also mostly the ones that need changing anyway
15:31:07 <|amethyst> maybe
15:31:14 <MarvinPA> and then once they're changed you wouldn't want them to be permanent any more
15:31:16 <blackcustard> o. crap. beardtony came back and kept playing. missed my window :(. wanted to get a copy of that save
15:31:19 <|amethyst> make it so that if you cast it a second time while still active, then it goes to permamode
15:31:44 <|amethyst> then you'll also always know when it starts costing you MP regen, because you explicitly requested it
15:31:53 <blackcustard> bots need to have a way to alert this channel when some starts playing again so we can flag people for pestering
15:32:07 <ontoclasm1> !irritate
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15:32:24 <blackcustard> yeah
15:32:33 <LexAckson> okay
15:32:41 <LexAckson> rmsl
15:32:44 <LexAckson> dmsl
15:32:47 <LexAckson> ctele
15:32:51 <LexAckson> is that still a spell?
15:33:04 <Cheibriados> 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-2508-g5ce3bfb: white_noise's recolored crypt tiles (#6073). 10(11 months ago, 23 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5ce3bfb7895e
15:33:04 <Cheibriados> 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-2509-gcbec45d: Make wall shadows darker in crypt. 10(11 months ago, 7 files, 30+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cbec45d42321
15:33:04 <Cheibriados> 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-2510-g1ea5b6b: Special door tiles for crypt (white_noise, #6073). 10(11 months ago, 17 files, 22+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1ea5b6bca508
15:33:04 <Cheibriados> 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-2511-gad7eb8f: Don't draw wall shadows on open doors. 10(11 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad7eb8fa2612
15:33:04 <Cheibriados> 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-2519-g3c5fe84: Merge branch 'crypt-tiles' into mct 10(9 minutes ago,  files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3c5fe84942a2
15:33:07 <ontoclasm> ctele is indeed a spell
15:33:07 <LexAckson> swift - not sure about this one any more
15:33:07 <LexAckson> stoneskin
15:33:10 <LexAckson> sureblade
15:33:14 <LexAckson> shroud of G
15:33:18 <blackcustard> ctele is single use now though; you have to recast after one blink/teleport
15:33:19 <LexAckson> darkness
15:33:21 <|amethyst> confusing touch I guess
15:33:22 <LexAckson> phase shift
15:33:27 <|amethyst> darkness I'm not so sure about
15:33:40 <blackcustard> if you do this please do swiftness. that's like the biggest permabuff for me
15:33:42 <LexAckson> ahh so cTele would not get perma-mode then
15:33:43 <blackcustard> stealth be damned
15:33:47 <|amethyst> ctouch is a little wierd in terms of charges I guess
15:33:57 <|amethyst> s/ie/ei/
15:34:00 <LexAckson> fire shield
15:34:04 <LexAckson> not sure about that one either
15:34:08 <|amethyst> DFB :)
15:34:08 <LexAckson> condensation shield
15:34:11 <LexAckson> ice armour
15:34:13 <LexAckson> regen
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15:34:16 <LexAckson> fly
15:34:23 <LexAckson> all the forms
15:34:36 <LexAckson> all the weapon brand spells
15:34:45 <blackcustard> ozocubu's armour
15:34:45 <LexAckson> that's the end
15:34:47 <LexAckson> yeah
15:34:50 <LexAckson> ice armour
15:35:01 <blackcustard> o sorry
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15:35:12 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  I could see an argument for regen
15:35:18 <LexAckson> yeah, sorry the tag is DUR_ICY_ARMOUR
15:35:28 <blackcustard> death's door ;)
15:35:31 <LexAckson> haha
15:35:33 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  since it only makes you hungrier when it's actually doing something
15:35:33 <LexAckson> =P
15:35:36 <LexAckson> yeah
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15:35:44 <LexAckson> i think the big ones are
15:36:06 <LexAckson> rmsl, regen, forms, fly, ice shield/armour, brands
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15:36:14 <LexAckson> and swift because
15:36:19 <ontoclasm> does this allow you to get negative mp regen
15:36:21 <LexAckson> most people don't care about the stealth
15:36:23 <LexAckson> yes
15:36:36 <|amethyst> then there should definitely be a way to turn off one at a time
15:36:38 <ontoclasm> what happens when you run out?
15:36:43 <LexAckson> of mp?
15:36:47 <ontoclasm> yes
15:36:50 <ontoclasm> do they just all end?
15:36:50 <LexAckson> it will not recast when you are out
15:37:05 <LexAckson> so they will eventually all end
15:37:07 <|amethyst> honestly, I think something of this size could benefit from its own UI
15:37:08 <LexAckson> but more likely
15:37:12 <|amethyst> an "active effects" screen
15:37:18 <LexAckson> you will drop the costly one
15:37:26 <LexAckson> and the cheaper ones will keep going
15:37:35 <MarvinPA> well exploring with swiftness sounds like an incredibly bad idea
15:37:41 <LexAckson> because your mp regen will go up after the costly ones end
15:37:43 <ontoclasm> |amethyst: one suggestion i remember hearing ages ago was that you get the perma-version but casting with shift
15:37:51 <ontoclasm> so if swift is on s
15:38:04 <LexAckson> lol
15:38:06 <ontoclasm> zs is normal swiftness, Zs is permaswift
15:38:10 <MarvinPA> also generally this sounds like it is going to make the interface worse rather than better if it needs a whole new menu
15:38:22 <|amethyst> ontoclasm:  I don't like that because I like to put spells on different-case keys
15:38:33 <|amethyst> ontoclasm:  e.g. swiftness on r, haste on R
15:38:34 <ontoclasm> no, shift-z
15:38:34 <LexAckson> MarvinPA, I have splatted a De because of stepping into a zot trap with swiftness on
15:38:41 <|amethyst> ontoclasm:  oh, yeah, that makes sense
15:38:43 <ontoclasm> like force-casting
15:39:00 <LexAckson> i was fast traveling i think
15:39:27 <blackcustard> that would overload "Z". it already means force-cast for things that sometimes complain about no targets
15:39:32 <|amethyst> I was thinking a screen that lists your active effects, lets you turn them off or toggle permanence, and shows you how much of your regen each is using
15:39:39 <|amethyst> Yeah, some people use Z always
15:39:52 <ontoclasm> ctrl-z? >.>
15:40:03 <|amethyst> that one's taken :P
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15:40:20 <LexAckson> |amethyst, that sounds pretty good
15:40:37 <|amethyst> maybe also such a screen could list side effects of each
15:41:08 <|amethyst> but maybe keeping that in sync with the spell description wouldn't be worth it
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15:42:11 <|amethyst> e.g.   a - Haste (-10% MP regen, contam)   b - Swiftness (-2% MP regen, -stealth, -traps)
15:42:38 <|amethyst> or whatever units you want to use for MP regen UI
15:42:42 <LexAckson> yeah
15:44:18 <LexAckson> so like
15:44:22 <LexAckson> hmm
15:44:48 <LexAckson> maybe you press * or ? in your spell list
15:45:04 <LexAckson> and it lists all the spells that have the option for perma-mode
15:45:07 <LexAckson> and that info
15:45:24 <LexAckson> and you can toggle the behavior?
15:46:30 <LexAckson> inactive spells would be greyed out
15:46:42 <LexAckson> but you could still change the settings
15:47:34 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  yeah.   Also, defaults for spells should be controllable though an rc option
15:47:53 <LexAckson> good point
15:47:55 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  actually, I was kind of thinking, just the active effects
15:48:32 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  and you could toggle them off or make existing effects permanent
15:48:46 <|amethyst> but I guess it would be nice to have an in-game way of toggling per-spell defaults
15:48:52 <LexAckson> yeah
15:48:59 <LexAckson> i think that would be nice
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15:50:28 <|amethyst> you can look at how autopickup does it (with both Options.force_autopickup and you.force_autopickup)
15:51:09 <LexAckson> okay, cool
15:51:12 <|amethyst> this will be somewhat simpler because autopickup has another couple of layers (the ch_force_autopickup callback as well as Options.autopickups for the base types
15:51:15 <|amethyst> )
15:51:38 <|amethyst> arguably you should have a callback too :)
15:51:49 <|amethyst> to lua I mean
15:51:51 <LexAckson> i'll have to read through a bunch of code to figure out how to do this
15:51:52 <LexAckson> yeah
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15:52:04 <|amethyst> see _is_option_autopickup in items.cc
15:52:27 <|amethyst> the Lua callback stuff is not hard; you can copy-paste the code from there
15:52:40 <LexAckson> oh good
15:53:00 <LexAckson> the thing i'm not too knowledgeable on is the ui code for crawl
15:53:10 <|amethyst> ah, neither am I really
15:53:13 <LexAckson> i've just never looked is all
15:53:24 <|amethyst> I helped Thann with the autopickup menu, but it always felt very hackish
15:53:36 <|amethyst> because it was kind of hacked onto the item menu
15:53:54 <|amethyst> subclassed from, but with very leaky abstraction
15:54:12 <LexAckson> well, at least it works :)
15:54:24 <|amethyst> it was a pain, and the UI is still ugly
15:54:31 <|amethyst> need to switch back to tri-state toggles
15:54:38 <|amethyst> none of this ctrl-d business
15:54:52 <|amethyst> which nobody knows about because who reads the help?
15:54:57 <LexAckson> haha
15:55:14 <LexAckson> it's hard to know when the help is updated
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15:55:29 <|amethyst> We kept that one pretty up-to-date
15:55:36 <|amethyst> but yeah
15:55:54 <|amethyst> when the UI changes again, unless it's obvious, who knows about it?
15:58:06 <LexAckson> so, should a spell be auto-recast afte a miscast occurs?
15:59:15 <ontoclasm> LexAckson: i would just have a unique message (instead of just "You miscast ___"), so that people can force_more it if necessary
15:59:21 <ontoclasm> and then don't recast it
15:59:22 <|amethyst> you check for miscast when the duration would run out?
15:59:31 <|amethyst> I agree with ontoclasm
15:59:31 <LexAckson> yes
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15:59:57 <LexAckson> something like
15:59:57 <|amethyst> I wouldn't be opposed to a separate message channel for sustained casting
16:00:09 <LexAckson> you lose concentration on
16:00:16 <|amethyst> maybe it's not necessary though
16:00:22 <LexAckson> or you fail to sustain your x spell
16:00:24 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  it should still make explicit that it was a miscast
16:01:00 <|amethyst> "Fail to sustain" sounds better than "lost concentration on"
16:01:05 <|amethyst> s/lost/lose/
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16:01:36 <LexAckson> you lose control of your magic
16:01:40 <|amethyst> because the latter suggests some kind of concentration mechanic, which we don't have
16:04:33 <|amethyst> I like having "fail" or "miscast" in there because that connects it to spell failure, which is what happens
16:04:40 <|amethyst> do you still get a miscast effect?
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16:05:07 <LexAckson> You fail to control your x spell
16:05:16 <LexAckson> then you would get like
16:05:20 <LexAckson> Your hands glow
16:05:24 <LexAckson> or whatever
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16:05:37 <LexAckson> and like, your x spell is running out
16:05:41 <|amethyst> hm
16:05:45 <|amethyst> actually
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16:05:57 <|amethyst> "you lose control of your x spell" would probably be okay
16:06:31 <|amethyst> and does sound better than the ones with "fail"
16:07:32 <LexAckson> okay
16:07:41 <MarvinPA> you'd have to get a miscast surely, why would you not
16:08:05 <|amethyst> also, I hate to make things more complicated, but what about evocations, invocations, and other non-spell durations?
16:08:24 <|amethyst> permanent flight off the ring sounds wrong I guess
16:08:43 <LexAckson> i don't think there are many you would want permanent
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16:09:19 <LexAckson> because of piety cost or whatever
16:09:24 <|amethyst> true
16:09:39 <|amethyst> that said, I think you should be *able* to toggle invis or haste to permanent
16:09:51 <|amethyst> maybe with a warning by default
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16:10:12 <LexAckson> seems like that would make them even better
16:10:30 <LexAckson> and you would have to go and manually end them every time
16:10:33 <|amethyst> you can do it right now with a script
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16:10:45 <LexAckson> but it takes a turn
16:10:59 <|amethyst> I guess that is true
16:11:00 <LexAckson> but mostly
16:11:10 <LexAckson> people will just glow themselves
16:11:12 <LexAckson> all the time
16:11:21 <|amethyst> what about "permanent for this casting only"?
16:12:00 <LexAckson> i think that this would just let people have the effect up until the first turn of yellow glow
16:12:00 <|amethyst> LexAckson:  we devs are quite concerned about maintaining and increasing the quality and entertainment value of !tv
16:12:02 <LexAckson> then end it
16:12:07 <LexAckson> haha
16:12:19 <LexAckson> well in that case
16:12:34 <LexAckson> we should have permabuffs auto recast when there is a miscast
16:12:35 <MarvinPA> the turn is an important thing yes, people can probably give themselves ridiculous glow without making haste even better for no reason
16:12:52 <LexAckson> and watch people explode when trying to perma spells they can't really cast
16:13:38 <LexAckson> so
16:13:38 <MarvinPA> i mean mostly the interface for this just sounds really bad to me, since obviously you permanently cast absolutely everything that you can and then have to manually cancel them
16:13:55 <LexAckson> you would probably only permacast a couple spells
16:14:02 <LexAckson> and with haste/invis
16:14:07 <LexAckson> it would not be worth it
16:14:14 <LexAckson> because you would only get like one recast
16:14:18 <LexAckson> before you started to glow
16:14:24 <LexAckson> and had to shut it off
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16:15:25 <LexAckson> hmm
16:15:27 <LexAckson> so like
16:15:39 <LexAckson> say you are going to vault 5
16:15:43 <LexAckson> you drink brilliance and
16:15:46 <MarvinPA> well if the option is there to permacast it then you would obviously permacast it instead of normally cast it, since it sounds like this gives you both the ability to cancel on demand and also to recast without spending a turn
16:15:50 <LexAckson> turn like phase shift to perma
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16:16:05 <ontoclasm> i'm so bad at using git :/
16:16:07 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  my thought was you can turn "permanent" on in a menu
16:16:23 <LexAckson> and then have to turn it off after the fight
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16:16:52 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  or (possibly) by casting the spell when it's already active
16:16:57 <ontoclasm> how do i get a particular revision from a particular commit? git reset --hard (number)?
16:17:08 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  i.e. if you sustain it once, you probably are going to again
16:17:31 <|amethyst> s/i.e./assuming that,/
16:17:53 <|amethyst> ontoclasm:  git checkout <revision>
16:17:59 <ontoclasm> ok
16:18:07 <|amethyst> ontoclasm:  that doesn't change where your branch points
16:18:21 <ontoclasm> ok
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16:20:33 <ontoclasm> ugggh why did this stuff have to happen before all the contribs got changed
16:21:36 <LexAckson> so an averageish endgame character can support phase shift  regen and shroud
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16:21:46 <LexAckson> and that puts mp regen at about 0
16:22:46 <LexAckson> a staff of enchantment lets them have slight mp regen
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16:35:49 <|amethyst> what's a staff of enchantment? :)
16:36:19 <Zannick> a +2 staff of +3
16:36:52 <LexAckson> lol
16:36:55 <LexAckson> oops
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16:39:46 <ontoclasm> ugggggh, this suuuuucks
16:39:51 <ontoclasm> i want my real computer :C
16:45:18 <ontoclasm> instead of spending the nest 5 hours of my life bisecting i guess i could just get someone competent to figure this out :/
16:50:34 <mumra> ontoclasm: are you on windows?
16:50:42 <ontoclasm> yes
16:50:56 <mumra> have you tried a gui like tortoisegit
16:51:35 <ontoclasm> nope, i just use msys
16:51:40 <mumra> i use it for a lot of non-trivial operations, it makes it a lot easier to see what's going on in many cases
16:51:49 <ontoclasm> hm
16:52:02 <ontoclasm> might be useful
16:52:14 <ontoclasm> the main problem is just how long it takes to build crawl on this laptop
16:52:27 <mumra> are you using the multicore switch on make
16:52:31 <ontoclasm> yeah
16:52:47 <ontoclasm> but it's only got one core so it doesn't help really >.>
16:52:56 <mumra> ah
16:52:59 <ontoclasm> it's just old
16:53:06 <mumra> well there's no point using that switch :)
16:53:20 <ontoclasm> i know, it's habit, hah
16:56:20 <mumra> crawl does take a long time to compile unfortunately :(
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17:13:06 <ProzacElf> ontoclasm: do you have a tile in mind for searing ray? =)
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17:14:06 <LexAckson> http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/315/c/4/isa81_imma_firin_mah_lazer_by_isa81-d32mqbj.gif
17:16:32 <ontoclasm> hah
17:18:14 <ProzacElf> lol
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17:26:47 <cjo_> Hi folks, I'm hoping to find someone to look at a patch I submitted and give me feedback or whether or not it sucks :)
17:27:31 <cjo_> (0006579: List monster spells in monster descriptions )
17:29:52 <LexAckson> oh man
17:29:55 <LexAckson> you did that thing
17:29:57 <LexAckson> cool
17:30:14 <LexAckson> if |amethyst is still around he's a pretty good guy to ask
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17:33:44 <cjo_> !tell |amethyst Hi, I'm hoping for some feedback on a patch submission (0006579: List monster spells in monster descriptions), and got steered your way.
17:33:45 <Henzell> cjo_: OK, I'll let |amethyst know.
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18:28:57 <Bloax> ontoclasm: The current randart chainmail is suspiciously prone to be confused with the normal one.
18:29:04 <Bloax> So HOPEFULLY this one is slightly less so: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/RandartChain.png
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18:56:04 <TZer0> !messages
18:56:05 <Henzell> No messages for TZer0.
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19:19:40 <gammafunk> Does the lack of messages make you sad TZer0?
19:22:36 <Bloax> spoiler alert: if there are no messages that means everything is going well and all is good
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19:29:27 <TZer0> gammafunk: more the fact that I have this window up
19:29:31 <TZer0> in my chat client
19:29:46 <TZer0> so I don't have any highlighting for messages where I'm mentioned
19:29:58 <TZer0> so I just do a !message to check if anyone has sent me something.
19:30:14 <TZer0> as I'm.. you know.. hosting a server and would like to know if there's something wrong.
19:30:32 <TZer0> So sometimes.. I just need to !message :D
19:30:39 <TZer0> I mean !messages
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20:38:15 <SamB> TZer0: you say your chat client is broken and doesn't highlight you?
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20:42:55 <Zannick> or maybe TZer0's client doesn't highlight when the nick is in the middle of the line
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20:43:15 <SamB> sounds broken to me
20:45:03 <Zannick> i've known clients that do that
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21:35:20 <Sizzell> SchwaWarrior (L17 HEAE) ERROR: range check error (-12 / 17) (Elf:2)
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22:41:15 <Sizzell> Eldarby (L2 DjFE) ASSERT(total > 0) in 'random-var.cc' at line 56 failed. (D:2)
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23:45:09 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2519-g3c5fe84 (34)
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