00:05:41 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2496-g11650dd (34) 00:06:31 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2496-g11650dd (34) 00:13:25 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2496-g11650dd (34) 00:16:12 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:16:36 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:17:58 MarvinPA_: do you think the abyss should get more down staircases? 00:19:31 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:19:32 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 00:23:31 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:24:33 -!- tgs3 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:24:41 -!- EightOctopus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:26:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:35:58 -!- Mahasti is now known as Cunnus 00:39:41 -!- ogsus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:40:28 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2497-gbd5b6ca: Increase Abyssal Stair chance by ~30% 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bd5b6ca91835 00:40:43 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:42:39 -!- tgcid has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:41 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:44:26 -!- Cunnus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:46:10 !tell MarvinPA *shakes his fist* My gargoyle got trampled off the stairs in Vestibule :) 00:46:11 bh: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 00:46:37 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2496-g11650dd 00:47:27 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:26 rtrample is gone? 00:50:39 bh: I'm not familiar with the abyss code so slap me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that commit reduce the chance of stairs spawning? Since _abyssal_stair_chance() is a argument for _abyss_check_place_feat( which uses it to call one_chance_in(? 00:50:39 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:50:56 ProzacElf: Yes 00:50:58 I think 00:51:12 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=42d4ca813519003473c53e7edcf7c2bff41b09a5 00:51:15 reaver: oh ffs. you're right 00:51:47 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:02 maybe this was his secret plan all along 00:52:05 and you ruined it 00:52:22 heh 00:52:34 SwissStopwatch: That would imply somebody wants to spend more time in the Abyss. 00:53:20 would imply he wants us to! 00:53:51 thank you reaver 00:56:35 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:49 he "accidentally" did it. you can't prove anything! 00:58:50 I just scummed the abyss in my game 00:59:29 -!- Melum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:13 -!- Cunnus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:00:19 bh: What for? 01:00:45 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2498-g7ea4980: Er, um. Fix abyssal stair chance 10(27 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7ea49801ec74 01:00:49 I had the worst mutation set imaginable, so I abandoned Ash and took Zin 01:01:01 then I ran around killing large abominations until I got to max piety 01:01:14 I was about to die when I hit max piety and cured all my muts 01:01:22 %dump bh 01:01:22 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/bh/bh.txt 01:01:43 was just coughing up the gold not an option or something 01:02:00 https://gist.github.com/bhickey/6051597 01:02:10 SwissStopwatch: I gave him 2500 gp and that only got me to 5*'s 01:02:26 well the pray half is pretty inefficient yeah 01:02:56 Have you ever seen a mutation set that bad? 01:03:15 well there have been a few insane people who manage to get them 01:03:28 I've certainly never had one close 01:03:30 bh: There was this guy on the Tavern who though it was a good idea to stand in mutagenic fog. 01:03:46 :( 01:03:59 I remember one guy killing himself with mutated statdeath in Lair with a firestormer 01:04:10 and then getting a bunch of gkills 01:04:17 hah 01:04:21 what a jerk 01:04:57 I'm so tempted to LRD myself. It seems like such a bad idea 01:05:00 Here's that Tavern guy: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6297&p=84621 01:05:37 I forgot somebody drew a hilarious picture. 01:05:44 good thing it isn't 50/50 01:05:44 bh: i'm surprised you didn't just become jiyva the god with the mut set 01:06:21 ogsus: 166335 | Slime:6 | Killed the royal jelly 01:07:31 lol 01:21:51 -!- ogsus has quit [Changing host] 01:21:52 -!- ogsus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:29 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:28:20 -!- reaver has quit [] 01:29:48 -!- thumpsmash has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:33:09 that....is a pretty crappy mut set 01:34:51 -!- tgcid has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:31 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:43:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:48:44 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:50:28 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:06:10 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:59 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:15:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:33 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:22:13 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 02:28:24 -!- Wolpertinger has quit [] 02:29:05 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:30:06 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:32:38 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:13 TR: Retime a Volcano map, at least with Cheibriados. by Nivim 02:38:01 -!- aves has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:41:04 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:41:20 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 02:42:45 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:47:49 -!- alefury has quit [] 02:49:54 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:55:21 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 02:55:44 -!- dupo has quit [] 03:06:45 -!- g057721 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:14:21 -!- Fear has quit 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quit [Quit: peace, holmes] 07:01:19 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 07:01:25 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:38 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:22 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:37 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 07:18:28 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:19:17 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:20:06 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:21:21 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:21 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:32 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:22:54 -!- RiotInferno has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:24:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:24:42 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:24:43 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 07:26:49 -!- tlk__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:29:04 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:29 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:38:30 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:55:33 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:59:09 -!- charlie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:02:54 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:03:57 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:06 -!- darktwinge is now known as Twinge 08:22:15 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:42 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:30:40 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:40:12 -!- lainiw has quit [Quit: wooo] 08:46:17 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:59:33 -!- Wolpertinger has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:01:09 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:01:47 !messages 09:01:48 No messages for TZer0. 09:01:54 No one loves me :( 09:02:39 !tell TZer0 nobody 09:02:42 Bloax: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 09:02:53 Hmm. 09:02:53 TZer0: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:02:55 ooh 09:02:57 a message! 09:02:59 !messages 09:03:00 (1/1) Bloax said (18s ago): nobody 09:03:02 :( 09:03:05 ;_; 09:03:13 >:) 09:03:40 * TZer0 tries to ban Bloax again from CLAN 09:03:45 ;_; 09:04:32 http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/object/067/067626/evil-otto_pictureboxart_160w.jpg 09:04:53 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:06:06 -!- yuastnav has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:01 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:08 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 09:09:50 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:22 -!- Guest65912 is now known as magicpoints 09:14:30 -!- cptwinky has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:14:52 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:16:10 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:00 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:31:19 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:31:34 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:38:47 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:43 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:39:57 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 09:40:19 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:41:15 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:47:33 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:56:44 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:04:43 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:50 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:52 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:04 -!- RiotInferno1 is now known as RiotInferno_ 10:12:22 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 10:23:35 -!- ColdPie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:25:22 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 10:29:19 -!- mason-- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:29:49 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:50 -!- ColdPie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:21 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:50 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:01 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:27 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:37 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:58:20 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:01:17 -!- moxian has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:03:47 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:44 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:06:51 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:09 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:19:31 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:20:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:25:28 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:29:17 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:19 should restore abilities cure newdraining? 11:43:08 It would make sense for it to do so. 11:43:25 magicpoints and tcjsavannah spoke about this in ##crawl just now 11:44:42 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:37 probably not 11:48:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:34 potion of restore stats 11:49:42 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:36 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:04 -!- klz_ is now known as klz 11:56:33 -!- klz has quit [Changing host] 11:56:46 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:56 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:51 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 12:14:47 Allow restore abilities to undo skill exp draining by magicpoints 12:14:47 -!- cjo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:09 -!- cjo has quit [Client Quit] 12:18:26 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2498-g7ea4980 (34) 12:24:54 Raging Bat Crash by XuaXua 12:25:19 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:26:32 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:34 -!- smajdalf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:32:11 -!- mason-- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:34:28 -!- st_ has quit [] 12:44:46 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:45:14 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:55:19 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:55:59 Nivim: what's a "TR"? (looking at your mantis issue) 12:58:58 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:59:38 -!- johnny0 has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:01:37 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2499-g6737e4e: Don't let Dissolution abjure 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6737e4e6b8f1 13:01:37 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2500-g6b822ec: Mark AF_PLAGUE as an unclean attack flavour 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b822ec8f2a8 13:01:37 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2501-g58c4dee: Make corporeal undead only eligible for one recite type 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 7+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=58c4dee87850 13:01:37 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2502-g6be1060: Mention draining on the m help screen (#7379) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6be106094ec4 13:04:43 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:44 -!- jeffro has quit [Changing host] 13:04:44 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:53 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:33 -!- tJener has quit [Changing host] 13:15:33 -!- moxian has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:16:51 Sprint maps are sorted incorrectly by nooodl 13:19:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:55 Draconian monks use weapons by Bloax 13:28:49 -!- charlie has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:53 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:40:59 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 13:42:02 -!- Burer has quit [Quit: I'll give myself a bulldog out of winston churchill] 13:42:58 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:37 -!- Burer has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:48:31 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:52:19 -!- Burer has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:55:03 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:51 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [] 14:03:25 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 14:13:48 -!- kronusdark has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 14:20:08 -!- ogsus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:27:25 -!- puppyknuckled has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:27:26 -!- Bloody^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:37 -!- CreepingCrawled has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:40 -!- Karhax has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:57 -!- CreepingCrawled has left ##crawl-dev 14:29:44 -!- six40sword has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:30:54 I keep getting this weird crash when trying to use OBS game capture with the Windows tiles version 0.12.2 14:31:04 ASSERT(in_non_diamond_int(r.start)) in 'ray.cc' at line 217 failed 14:35:24 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:52 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:14 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:55:06 -!- knaveightt has quit [Quit: On the other hand, you have different fingers.] 14:58:39 JacquesDerrida (L20 MfIE) ERROR: range check error (-36 / 17) (Vaults:2) 14:59:25 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:03:36 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:04:24 -!- ebarrett has quit [Client Quit] 15:04:30 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:10 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:42 -!- SmokedDragonfly has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:52 any progress on LO ? 15:06:16 if anyone is going to commit to trunk I could test on webtiles 15:10:07 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:44 -!- Vandal has quit [] 15:13:50 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:13:57 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:34 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:54 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:34 -!- yalue has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:24 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: oh god how do i internets] 15:29:59 -!- puppyknuckled has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:37:14 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Quit: Specialization is for Insects] 15:37:21 nooodl: Tweak Request. FR didn't seem accurate for some reason. 15:38:17 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:18 SmokedDragonfly: Are you talking about a patch you made that you want tested on webtiles instead of local tiles? 15:39:52 Nivim: I didn't made any, should I? 15:40:20 the thing about LO that must change, is that LO stupidly easy dies to even crappy enemy that is invis, becuase he stays cool then 15:40:31 SmokedDragonfly: progress on what exactly about LO? 15:40:38 oh 15:40:44 I think he means the tension fix, not the LO fix. 15:41:02 And yeah, it would be cool if someone made a fairly intelligent patch for that. 15:41:06 ignore my question you already answered it 15:41:27 on the one hand, yeah, it is a bit strange that the LO is unperturbed getting plugged by something invisible 15:41:35 on the other hand, the heat aura seems pretty overpowered to begin with 15:42:46 -!- Scotch has quit [Client Quit] 15:44:15 ackack: The other patch around this going in is going to be exponential decay for the heat aura, and an idea for the invis-tension is making it include monsters that are attacking/shooting you for the turn they do so (probably with a tension boost in the same position as might/haste, just for the accuracy hit). 15:45:31 i don't understand that last bit at all 15:46:17 ackack: Tension checks whether creatures have various buffs, and invis creatures hitting you should not _just_ be counted that turn, but be counted like they have a buff. 15:46:27 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 15:46:43 Since invis does more than keep you from seeing things. 15:47:39 Nivim: I have easier idea 15:47:54 when you get hit -> increase heat 15:48:03 You mean tension? 15:48:03 and make aura damage depend on your level 15:48:24 Nivim: no, just increase the temperature proportional to damage lost 15:48:33 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:48:37 That sounds even more tricky to balance. 15:48:55 that would be weak 15:49:02 that might be an okay way to do it if you got rid of the heating up on sight aspect 15:49:22 leave the heat-on-sight but reduce it 15:49:30 meh, you'll be at full temperature like all the time that way 15:49:38 But it would still lead to you getting your heat aura either when you're about to die or when it will kill the things about to kill you. 15:49:38 reduce it 15:49:57 ackack: no, you would have to lose 90% of HP ever 3 turns to keep at max temp 15:50:16 i don't see how that fixes your problem with invis monsters 15:50:17 Ah, so something you only see after you die. 15:50:32 since you also need to be quite near max temp to have heat aura at all 15:50:33 ackack: when invis hits you then you heat up. 15:50:47 sure, so to get a heat aura, just lose 90% of your hp over 3 turns to an invis monster 15:51:02 yes 15:51:19 It's like funeral fireworks. 15:51:20 sounds to me like this will still lead to "stupidly easy dies to even crappy enemy that is invis" 15:51:20 doesnt that sound a better reason for max temp then "heaving kobolt in LOS"? 15:51:41 well, if you want to change the mechanic to getting hit is the sole thing that heats you up and then temp decays with time 15:51:45 ackack: if you get hit by INVISIBLE enemy then you hit up quickly 15:51:47 i could imagine that being interesting 15:52:12 having invisible monsters only do something special seems silly 15:52:25 ackack: yes this. plus leave a little of tension hit, but limit it at temp=80% unless you see very serious enemy 15:52:40 ackack: what do you mean? 15:52:52 alternative: allow LO tension to include invisible objects despite the information leakage 15:52:58 i mean it doesn't make much sense to have any invis monster instantly jack you to full temp 15:53:04 why is this a problem at all, really? 15:53:14 sorry, LOs don't get to automatically destroy unseen horrors 15:53:19 SmokedDragonfly: Weren't you trying to suggest a simpler system than just using Tension? Now you're making all sorts of exceptions. 15:53:42 right now it's at least consistent: if you see the thing, you can increase temp 15:54:50 LO is already arguably one of the strongest races, the heat aura seems more likely to need a nerf imo than a buff 15:55:31 well it needs to speed up with enemies near 15:55:47 SamB: The 'nice' tension change was to make it so you get tension for things you have immediate evidence about; like getting hit, shot at, seeing a disturbance, or that detection for things with bad stealth. 15:55:59 how many heat levels are there? 10? 15:56:12 not sure, it seemed like 12 or so 15:56:20 when enemies in LO you heat up, but capped at medium heat 15:56:56 if you are hit, then you heat up, the more the bigger the damage, and extra fast if enemy is invisible. (Hitting yourself or by traps counts 1/2 less) 15:57:00 good? :) 15:57:05 ackack: it would be possible to nerf it overall but allow it to apply in more instances 15:57:08 * enemies in LOS 15:57:12 ackack: not sure if it's a good idea or not 15:57:33 well 15:57:39 yes, that's true 15:57:48 however it's not clear that people want to be in no scroll mode more often though 15:57:53 also: the heat aura damage starts weaker then it is now, and grows with your exp levels 15:58:13 true, I've heard tales of people making enemies invisible just to lower temp 15:58:53 ackack: you could give ability "Relax" that would lower temp for 3 turns 15:59:08 Heh. 15:59:13 Capping the heat aura if nothing is hurting you does sound like a good idea, though. 15:59:15 or make it possible to read scrolls with chance % based on dexterity 15:59:25 so basically you'd like LO to just be superpowered, no drawbacks, just flaming clouds everywhere all the time 15:59:42 ackack: yeah 15:59:49 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:00:07 but seriously, no 16:00:21 Too late. 16:00:30 we could make him use more food when heated 16:00:47 hunger, always a good balancing mechanic (note: not actually true at all) 16:03:47 ok then what other idea? 16:03:56 Chimeric spectral wolves howl. by dck 16:03:56 so here's a goofy LO idea 16:04:05 change the mechanic to temperature gain on damage 16:04:20 and 16:04:34 ditch the speed changes with temperature 16:04:35 instead 16:04:55 give a full temperature LO an ability like "flow" that is something like a limited form of blinking 16:05:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:05:18 a full-on high temp cblink would obviously be too powerful 16:05:39 ackack: obviously 16:06:08 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 16:06:19 so LO will always be slow? 16:06:21 maybe you could use it to move through a single enemy, doing some damage 16:06:26 unless hasted by potions etc? 16:06:35 just make them normal speed 16:06:44 why call it heat, then? 16:06:53 about this flow idea, we could combine it with my idea to produce milk and cheese 16:07:13 or, rather, why be lava orcs if the entire mechanic changes? it seems like a different idea 16:07:25 there was idea to allow (c)hurn when you have a helmet, to milk yak (get milk, cheese) 16:07:31 you can still have them heating up and then turning liquid, thus "flow" 16:07:48 if you wanted to get rid of LO though my heart would not be broken 16:07:59 SmokedDragonfly: Sounds like a brilliant idea that belongs in CYC. 16:08:19 on low INT you can get message "you start milking... This yak is a dude! you feel doopey (-1 INT)" 16:08:36 It just seems that the mechanic stops being about tension, and temperature, and is all "whn you get hit, bad things happen to people hitting you until you shift away automatically" 16:08:41 with LO you could also get "you rage! you squirt and flow all over the yak" 16:09:20 well the mechanic as is was an interesting try but doesn't come out that great imo 16:09:27 ackack: well I believe they are currently allowed only in alpha builds 16:09:37 You might as well be, for example, a hedgehog, that when things hurt you you url up, making yourself more spiky so people hitting you hurt, and when you get hurt enough you roll up in a ball and roll away 16:09:40 LO is very cool lets heep him 16:10:02 you can't control where you roll, so it's not a cblink, and you can still die 16:10:05 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:10:08 phyphor: cool, you keep working on the naming thing 16:10:10 wheee, new player race :) 16:10:23 you rolled into lava! you die.... no wait, what race it was again? 16:10:37 though LO could flow randomly and flow into water insta cooling 16:10:53 Erinaceinid 16:11:40 Furze? 16:11:46 thye naturally have rPoi 16:12:02 -!- gammafunk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:07 yeah, I invented a player race - it sucks, but hey, is it worse than 16:12:17 16:12:26 http://warehouse1.indicia.org.uk/upload/med-p15onh6fvhj2r1tgakeg6r21u0c2.jpg 16:12:42 ^- would spawn with mutation Addo+1 - you look addorable 16:13:21 You look addorable. Some high inteligence not-evil beings are neutral to you 16:14:20 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:50 -!- tswett is now known as tswetf 16:18:36 -!- pantaril has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:23:06 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:35 -!- SmokedDragonfly has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:31:10 wtf? 16:31:47 that looks like a pretty good reaction to the last few pages 16:31:58 yeah, i... 16:32:04 I mean 16:32:34 I wouldn't personally take anything this dude says seriously at all because of stuff he did/said in ##crawl even before this 16:32:42 but I get that luxury I guess 16:33:03 i don't read ##crawl all that much 16:33:38 well that's maybe a good thing 16:34:38 i can affirm that it is 16:34:59 but it was ??language related is the shortform (what do you mean offensive stereotyping is a racial slur, they're not technically a race!!) 16:35:18 so yeah 16:36:57 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:46 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:37 Is my mind playing tricks on me, or was the alignment of shop prices changed semi-recently? 16:38:52 Are they evil now? (harhar) 16:39:07 Something to do with variable console sizes or something? 16:39:15 <|amethyst> %git 2bf005e9 16:39:15 07SamB * 0.13-a0-842-g2bf005e: Expand item list in shops to use all available columns 10(9 weeks ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2bf005e90dc4 16:39:22 yes I did that 16:39:29 Yes, that is very ungood on high resolution screens here 16:39:34 I was going ot make it use 80 but someone told me to do that instead 16:39:43 Since there is enough blank space between them to fit the item list in 3 or 4 times over 16:40:09 -!- ogsus has quit [Quit: peace, holmes] 16:40:23 I blame them -> 16:40:36 <|amethyst> maybe cap it at ~120 or so 16:40:40 I think it should default to a much smaller amount of space. Like, there is no need for it to be, at most, more than a few spaces over from the length of the longest item for sale 16:40:50 all 78 of -> ???? 16:41:11 <- or possibly them 16:41:22 I'm just pointing at random 16:41:31 because I don't remember who told me to do it this way 16:41:33 Well, in my case there's literally 1200 pixels between the end of the item names, and their prices :P 16:41:33 <|amethyst> SamB: that second one was pointing at "<+SamB>" 16:41:36 <|amethyst> :) 16:41:42 hmm 16:42:05 somebody said something about kilobyte having a system where 80 was too wide 16:42:09 Probably some people play tiles on ever higher resolutions, too 16:42:16 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:42:23 soo, yes capping it is probably not a bad plan 16:42:24 Well, it is fine not to default to 80 16:42:34 Just it should cap at some small value larger than the longest item for sale 16:42:59 whether capping it at ~120 or so like |amethyst says, or actually taking the max of the lengths 16:43:04 <|amethyst> what about filling in the gap with darkgrey "." instead of space 16:43:11 (I haven't played a real offline game in so long that I hadn't noticed) 16:43:12 <|amethyst> (in addition to other things) 16:43:14 that might work too 16:43:16 |amethyst: That's still really, really long here 16:43:26 maybe alternate colors 16:43:28 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: 120 characters? 16:43:37 |amethyst: Oh, I thought you meant using the current alignment 16:43:53 |amethyst: And just fill in a few hundred . :P 16:43:58 <|amethyst> yeah, alignment dots only go so far :) 16:44:04 anyway it used to be hardcoded at like 60 or 70 or something 16:44:06 <|amethyst> whatever those are called 16:44:12 probably about 70 16:44:19 <|amethyst> is there a typographer in the house? 16:45:00 I do tend to lean towards being based on the longest item, since them being close is generally good 16:45:02 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:12 Even if they are not aligned in the same place for every shop 16:45:34 <|amethyst> probably want a lower limit too 16:45:39 Perhaps 16:45:49 <|amethyst> because "bread ration 30" looks kind of funny in console 16:45:50 But I think it's okay if not every shop is aligned the same, since you can only be looking at a single list at a time 16:45:57 Does it? 16:46:26 In any case, I am fine enough using the old value as the lower limit, if people don't like it being even smaller 16:46:39 Would still be a large improvement here 16:47:16 <|amethyst> what about when the contents change? 16:47:31 <|amethyst> e.g. you buy the longest-named item 16:47:40 Seems fine to realign at that point? 16:47:59 Things shouldn't jump around much with a decent lower limit, I expect 16:48:07 Just if you bought some very long randart, mostly 16:48:43 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:48:49 Which I don't think matters. Like, the prices being close to the items they are for seems more important to me than constancy with where the prices are printed 16:49:18 (Though presumably they would realign anyway if you just exited and reentered, since it's not like that information would be saved) 16:50:08 <|amethyst> also, where should the extra space go? 16:50:19 <|amethyst> to the left, to the right, or divided evenly? 16:50:47 I'm not sure what you mean? 16:51:00 <|amethyst> item price 16:51:08 <|amethyst> item price 16:51:13 <|amethyst> item price 16:51:20 Oh, I think the items should remain left-aligned, certainly 16:53:00 |amethyst: the typographical term you were wondering about seems to be leaders 16:53:31 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:53:35 see p. 223 of the TeXbook 16:53:57 <|amethyst> SamB: thank you 16:54:34 Fix some typos by chris 16:57:11 -!- maha has quit [Client Quit] 16:57:44 -!- KLANG has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:04:49 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:53 -!- CreepingCrawled has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:05:40 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:11 -!- Karhax has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:09:15 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:45 -!- lainiw has quit [Quit: woooooooo] 17:12:37 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:14:36 |amethyst: the extra space has traditionally been on the right; I see no reason to shake things up there ... 17:20:09 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:17 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:28:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:31:10 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:51 !source handle_items_on_shaft 17:32:07 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/8165442 17:40:09 -!- tswetf is now known as tswett 17:52:09 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:52:50 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:27 -!- ground4 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 17:59:25 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:00:38 -!- Hailley has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:38 -!- ackack has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:42 -!- minqmay has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:42 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:42 -!- mumra has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:43 -!- tgs3 has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:44 -!- Naruni has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:45 -!- rossi has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:46 -!- Gretell has quit [*.net *.split] 18:02:18 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:02 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:15 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 18:07:13 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:07:16 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 18:07:45 -!- Vandal is now known as Ganrao 18:09:27 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:58 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:17:37 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:17:39 -!- Hailey has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 18:24:36 -!- alchemist has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:30:06 -!- Burer has quit [Quit: I'll give myself a bulldog out of winston churchill] 18:32:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:09 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:33:43 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:34:05 -!- Rycklaryybbe has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:35:40 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:36:01 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 18:42:45 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 18:45:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:45:44 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 18:52:28 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:41 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:37 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:59:53 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 19:00:14 JacquesDerrida (L21 MfIE) ERROR: range check error (-55 / 17) (Elf:2) 19:05:51 -!- Eronarn has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:42 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:08:11 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:05 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:57 -!- axujen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:46 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:25 JacquesDerrida (L21 MfIE) ERROR: range check error (-40 / 17) (D:23) 19:29:07 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:29:15 SchwaWarrior (L14 HEAE) ERROR: range check error (-29 / 17) (D:15) 19:29:38 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:31 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:36:58 SchwaWarrior (L15 HEAE) ERROR: range check error (-33 / 17) (D:15) 19:39:11 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:40:01 -!- SenoraRaton has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:45:44 -!- Rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 19:52:44 -!- alefury|2 has quit [] 19:56:07 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:56:50 Game crashes upon exiting the Abyss via exit gateway by SchwaWarrior 19:57:47 -!- bh_ is now known as bh 20:01:54 Red draconian's breath do not burn trees by Sizz 20:06:13 -!- RZX has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:58 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:07:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:07:52 Wizzzargh (L12 DsSu) ERROR: range check error (-40 / 17) (Lair:3) 20:07:59 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:16 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:13 Incorrect message for Fedhas worshippers without feet by magicpoints 20:36:39 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-2503-g98e2d98: Deathcap tile 10(6 minutes ago, 4 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98e2d983b6f2 20:41:47 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:36 -!- brothergg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:48:50 -!- lainiw has quit [Quit: woooooo] 20:50:22 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:51:17 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:55:33 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:18 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:07 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:05:08 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 21:15:47 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:20:48 -!- brothergg has quit [Client Quit] 21:22:27 Having just unexpectedly avoided a potentially scary situation, I am reminded that having a random assortment of monster summons not follow the player across stairs still feels rather bad to me 21:23:08 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:13 -!- zero_one has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:46 must be hard to remember which ones 21:31:51 -!- brothergg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:20 Well, I don't personally think they should do this at all 21:33:38 Before I forget to mention it here, I'm going to be out of town for a week starting tomorrow, and I'm not sure how reliably I'll be checking in here during that time. 21:33:40 I'm not even certain it was deliberate 21:34:05 Though perhaps it was (that doesn't mean I think it is necessarily a good idea, either) 21:34:30 DracoOmega: clearly having a random assortment do it is the worst possible choice 21:35:00 Yes 21:35:18 whether "it" is "follow you" or "not follow you" ;-) 21:35:18 As far as I know, it's which ones have a player-equivalent spell 21:35:32 oooookay ... 21:36:17 Well, I mean that this applies to summons from things like shadow creatures, which is also a player-castable spell 21:36:21 And not to summon undead, which isn't 21:36:30 <|amethyst> yeah, it's whichever summons are capped 21:36:40 <|amethyst> %git 7e50c859 21:36:41 07mumra * 0.13-a0-2026-g7e50c85: Allow non-capped temporary summons to use stairs too 10(4 weeks ago, 4 files, 23+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e50c859fae8 21:36:59 <|amethyst> and 21:37:06 <|amethyst> %git cf90cb50 21:37:06 07mumra * 0.13-a0-2024-gcf90cb5: Prevent temporary summons using stairs 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cf90cb503b9e 21:37:42 <|amethyst> could have the summon check there only matter for allies? non-hostiles? 21:38:02 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:40:36 Well, these spells aren't actually capped for monsters either, are they? 21:42:15 <|amethyst> right, but I believe you still can't tell who the summoner is 21:42:20 <|amethyst> from a monster 21:42:41 Yes 21:42:51 (Something that probably should be fixed anyway, of course) 21:42:52 -!- brothergg_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:54:38 -!- grathtarg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:04 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 22:01:49 -!- Quashie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:13 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:09:57 -!- axujen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:13:05 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:16:07 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2504-gc40e354: Call cat feet "paws" (CreepingCrawled) 10(26 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c40e354919ff 22:16:07 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2505-g5f0fbe2: Fix formula for footless Fedhas faithful (#7389) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5f0fbe26ea39 22:16:31 |amethyst: you had a lot of fun writing the latter commit message, didn't you? :b 22:16:40 <|amethyst> I did, yes :) 22:17:30 %git HEAD^{/withers and dies} 22:17:31 07Grunt * 0.11-a0-2929-gea85ad3: A nearby "A nearby it withers and dies" withers and dies. 10(1 year ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ea85ad332ce1 22:17:42 ...that one's probably still one of my all-time favorite commit messages :b 22:19:09 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:58 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:12 DracoOmega: bh is here to complain about newGr :b 22:22:20 it's too good 22:22:23 evidence: I won 22:22:46 (or is it newnewnewnewGr or... I've lost count >_>) 22:23:23 hasn't been released yet, it can't count as new, just as prerelease tuning :) 22:23:37 Well, newvaults was never in a release. 22:23:39 bh: Just because GrEE is quite good doesn't mean Gr itself is too good 22:23:45 <|amethyst> yeah, given that unlike Na and Dr they can get full benefit from all armour, they probably don't need as much innate armour 22:23:45 That doesn't stop us from trotting out newnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewvaults :b 22:23:53 DracoOmega: true. It was hellafun 22:24:00 |amethyst: They are actually much squisher than you probably think 22:24:38 <|amethyst> true, I only tried ee/fe/cj 22:24:41 They are actually probably squishier than, say, a kobold for practical purposes 22:24:50 did we get rid of the experience aptitude? 22:24:54 I have one in midgame just now and have almost died in melee a silly number of times 22:26:17 The low hp is a major handicap and I think increasingly that EV is a lot better on low hp races, defense-wise. Since the more steady decrease from AC requires more of an hp buffer 22:26:17 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 22:26:26 they're definitely better balanced than Dj 22:26:35 So I think that they LOOK a lot stronger in that regard than they actually are 22:26:48 And that anyone who says their defenses are too good has never tried to melee in midgame with one :P 22:27:18 DracoOmega: I screwed up my game badly: https://gist.github.com/bhickey/6051597 22:27:48 In any case, what I am very much leaning towards doing is reducing the AC they have at early levels (where it is very strong indeed) and give them a passive GDR bonus to help smooth out some of the later issues 22:28:21 bh: Yeah, I noticed the horrible mutation list 22:28:30 can we please only use new^N-vaults 22:28:40 passive GDR would be good if it actually helped against the things problematic for them 22:28:43 SamB: the official word these days is hypervaults. 22:28:47 SamB: where's the fun in that, though? 22:28:53 SamB: newvaults? like versus vaults from <0.12? 22:29:14 SwissStopwatch: Well, I have found that plenty of things that just hit modestly hard can be an issue, too. Sure it leaves them vulnerable to certain OTHER things, but probably that is okay? 22:29:19 SwissStopwatch: I only ran into trouble with Draconian packs, OoFs and Greater Mummies 22:29:33 bh: oldvaults was 0.11- vaults; newvaults was infiniplex's rewrite which never made a stable release; newnewvaults etc. have been mumra's successive rewrites :b 22:29:44 bh: Well, you were also making full use of a +3 apt and staying out of range of things, I assume? 22:29:48 Grunt: ah. Whatever it is now is aweseom 22:29:49 the way I see it the real problem is the vulnerability to being wiped by strong ranged attacks 22:30:00 DracoOmega: nah, I was passwall stabbing with a +8,+9 lajatang 22:30:05 (of speed) 22:30:06 it would be nice if they were just +2 earth/-2 air (as I've/others've said before) 22:30:15 oh well that explains the easiness 22:30:17 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:19 bh: can I borrow that lajatang for that HuAr of mine who just died? >_> 22:30:26 Grunt: sure, take my ring too 22:30:27 it's not a "problem" exactly because other races share the vulnerability 22:30:27 that game would be easy for a mummy too 22:30:32 so it's not like it's inherently unbalanced 22:30:47 but I don't know if GDR would really address that weakness, if that's what you're trying to do 22:31:21 Well, it obviously doesn't help against ranged attacks 22:31:26 But it does quite a lot for melee 22:31:43 even with lousy air, you can still cast rmsl just fine 22:31:49 coincidentally ranged attacks really are some of the most threatening things in general 22:32:07 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:14 Yes 22:32:15 centaurs 22:32:39 the GDR would do a little, I suppose, but I don't think it would really make any significant dent 22:33:48 +2 earth / -2 air sounds like a welcome change. The rest can probably stay unchanged. 22:34:01 it's just that there basically are like 3 things in the game that have horrifying damage output in melee without the help of a weapon 22:34:14 SwissStopwatch: Ettins? 22:34:32 ettins, hydras (and undead variants), ice fiends 22:34:46 Ice Fiend (161) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 76-122 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Dam: 2512(cold:18-53), 2512(cold:18-53) | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 12cold+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 2892 | Sp: b.cold (3d27), torment symbol | Sz: Large | Int: high. 22:34:46 %??ice fiend 22:35:04 SwissStopwatch: Well, when you have -2 hp, a lot of things because a lot worse in melee :P 22:35:14 !send Cerebov a 27-headed hydra simulacrum 22:35:15 Sending a 27-headed hydra simulacrum to Cerebov. 22:35:36 yes, but they're still really not that bad there compared to when they try to iron shot you or something 22:35:54 or pick up a crossbow 22:36:46 Perhaps, though for whatever reason, this game I have had way more close calls from melee than ranged stuff 22:37:22 the only really close calls I've had are from things that wouldn't give current gargoyle a problem 22:37:38 which is funny but I can't really do anything about it 22:37:58 Electric stuff? 22:38:00 yes 22:38:20 -!- brothergg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:38:27 Somehow this character here has nearly died to unmerged slime creatures at least twice, and his predecessor actually DID die to one 22:38:55 it's certainly true at times that slime creatures will be a little threatening 22:39:22 oh yeah. Slime creatures can get scary in a hurry. Bone dragons too 22:39:26 I kind of feel that their status as a melee-only monster just means they're not very bad unless you get too aggressive though 22:39:39 -!- doerrpau has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:55 i find it more worrying people die to merged slime creatures 22:40:11 yes 22:40:14 SwissStopwatch: Perhaps it is possible that I do, I suppose 22:40:36 I kind of think this is more of an inherent "feature" of crawl than a problem with gargoyles 22:40:43 Nonetheless, concept-wise I do think I'd rather they be more resiliant to modest-damage threats like these, even if still more vulnerable to harder-hitting stuff 22:41:18 also how would gargoyle GDR stack/compare with the GDR they get for wearing, say 22:41:20 plate 22:41:41 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:42:10 I haven't sat down to work out numbers, but what I had been leaning towards was a flat bonus that was scaled down (but did not disappear) based on the GDR of the armour you were wearing 22:42:36 that might manage the feat of making robe gargoyles bizarrely even more attractive than they might be now 22:42:50 Well, the idea was that it wouldn't 22:42:56 s/idea/hope 22:43:09 That's specifically why it wasn't just a flat floor on their GDR or something 22:43:28 But as I said, I haven't run any tests on actual numbers yet 22:43:55 I'd really rather if light armour wasn't de facto better for a race with bad dodging and good armour apts. It feels a bit.. counterintuitive 22:43:58 when you do checking how a plate gargoyle looks versus an evasion/robe/ozo's armour gargoyle might be worth it 22:44:02 It does, yeah 22:44:18 Which is kind of why I'm mentioning this, it'd be really strange given how their apts and stats look 22:44:32 Yeah, I'm aware of sentiment in that regard 22:46:00 gargoyles kind of do already have "more" GDR than anyone else anyway, unless they have none 22:46:45 What do you mean? 22:47:33 well, it's based on body armour type and AC, the second of which they have a definite advantage over everyone else on 22:48:02 Well, I think that having enough AC to get the maximal reduction granted by your GDR is actually not very hard for most people, except against the heaviest hitters 22:48:55 I suppose maybe it's better to think of it as 2 limiting factors anyway 22:49:32 Plate is 39%, yes? Which only requires 23 AC to max against a death yak, which I imagine any normal person in plate in Lair can have 22:51:07 It's likely only the very heavy hitters that are worrisome anyway though 22:51:16 i'm hovering around there with a lot of guys in significantly less armor than plate 22:51:21 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:52:06 well part of GDR's weirdness is that it doesn't scale all that well past, say... 22:52:09 ...well, scale mail 22:52:26 which really means Steam/Mottled 22:52:43 ??greatplayers 22:52:44 greatplayers[1/2]: Players who have won every currently available to play race. Lifetime membership once you get in! 22:52:45 SwissStopwatch: Well, death yaks certainly count as worrisome by Lair depth, anyway 22:52:52 btw, draco, i am liking searing ray now that i've given it more of a chance 22:52:55 I wonder if I could get greatplayers and awfulplayers at the same time 22:52:56 yes, they do 22:53:13 Although I would also say that a lot of times I don't actually have 23 AC on "heavy" characters by then 22:53:20 obviously a gargoyle would have it though 22:53:25 ProzacElf: Glad to hear it. I've had it on a couple early characters now and it's felt pretty solid and useable without being over the top 22:53:28 So that's good 22:53:50 yeah, seems more broadly useful than force lance but not overpowering either 22:54:27 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:54:34 and yeah, swiss...a lot depends on auxiliary pieces and EA scrolls by then i guess 22:54:40 regardless of armor type 22:54:49 yes 22:55:00 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:10 I am kind of unimpressed with upgraded force lance, though. It's not really good enough at EITHER hurting things or moving them back to want to use it under normal circumstances I found. Like, I tried to use it a bunch more than I might otherwise, and was still left feeling that it was less effective than if I'd just done something else 22:55:54 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:55:58 which is probably "just" a numbers issue at least 22:56:05 It might be, yes 22:56:05 i kind of agree. i only really bothered to learn it once so far, and i was not overwhelmed with its usefulness 22:56:18 I'm pretty sure force lance has always been theoretically attractive if it actually does what it says it might 22:57:05 SwissStopwatch: I'm sort of inclined to think the effect chance can be better-balanced at higher level. And maybe make it more spellpower dependant, too 22:57:16 I expect I will try poking at the formula at some point 22:57:24 although it'd probably have to have a decent chance of knocking back 2 spaces to be really "Great" 22:57:46 which then might make it too good depending on how much of an "escape" it's supposed to be? 22:58:39 Quirky thought: make the knockback chance improve quite a bit based on how FAR the target is from you when you hit them with it 22:58:52 keepaway lance, huh 22:59:00 So that it is not so good for an emergency 'get this out of melee from me' thing and more a preemptive ability 22:59:06 this seems funny when combined with conjure flame 22:59:08 I don't know if this is a good or bad idea, mind 22:59:25 I thought it did that already. 22:59:34 Nah, distance from you doesn't matter 23:00:00 <|amethyst> it's a flat 50% chance to try a knockback, and the chance of that succeeding depends only on the monster's size 23:00:03 or cloud spells on a larger scale but that's probably not very necessary with clouds 23:00:20 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 23:00:28 Yes, probably if you are throwing cloud spells, you can just kite by moving 23:00:47 I think that would make it interesting, even if not powerful. A game of not just shooting things before they reach you but a game of keep-away. 23:02:18 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:02:19 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:02:23 fr orb of obstruction 23:02:53 orb of construction 23:02:58 Haha 23:03:05 ...leaves a trail of temporary walls! 23:03:09 haha 23:03:15 <|amethyst> orb of copy construction 23:03:25 |amethyst: we already have Mara for that : 23:03:26 :) 23:03:29 <|amethyst> :) 23:03:42 My vaguely-formed thought was more "non-tracking ood that tries to push monsters back a couple times before dissipating" 23:04:17 that's not exaaaactly force lance though 23:04:55 -!- paulsomebody has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:05:04 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:05:08 To my complete lack of surprise, I cannot reproduce #7392. 23:05:10 er 23:05:11 7382. 23:05:14 !bug 7382 23:05:14 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7382 23:05:42 I don't know what that band would sound like either 23:05:57 it'd probably be reallt unlistenable though 23:06:05 <|amethyst> drum and bass 23:06:15 <|amethyst> maybe not 23:06:21 |amethyst, it would generally be bassless. 23:06:44 <|amethyst> I see what you did there 23:06:45 Grunt: it is a xuaxua bug :) 23:06:53 ??xuaxua[$ 23:06:54 xuaxua[4/4]: is XuaXua on crack?? 23:06:59 Haha 23:08:43 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:56 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:59 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:41 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:09:43 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:07 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz. 123456890] 23:25:05 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:30:01 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:30:14 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:31:33 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:33:11 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:33:54 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 23:34:06 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:35:21 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:09 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:41:30 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:43:58 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2505-g5f0fbe2 (34) 23:48:16 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:50:08 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:52:42 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:59:16 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev