00:01:05 Darn. 00:02:17 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:40 Thyme: can you spectate me? 00:05:42 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2422-ged6c583 (34) 00:06:09 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2422-ged6c583 (34) 00:07:14 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:31:23 -!- tJener has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35:57 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:04 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:44:38 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:45 -!- broquaint has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:56:17 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:56:38 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: six40sword] 01:01:24 -!- Mahasti has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:06:59 -!- tJener has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:11:55 -!- tJener has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:13:26 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:47 -!- letmeon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:23:19 -!- 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##crawl-dev 07:23:25 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 07:25:15 -!- Marbit has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:38 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:03 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 07:42:33 -!- Marbit has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:54:41 -!- m1nced has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:01:01 -!- tgcid has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:12:53 what's a dead orb for in Hyperrogue? 08:14:26 !git :/vines 08:14:38 uh 08:14:43 !git /:vines 08:15:08 !git HEAD^^{:vines} 08:15:14 damnation 08:16:53 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:18:17 -!- shmup has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:30:37 kilobyte: orbs are for one-used magical abilities so i guess a dead one is a used one? 08:31:20 you can pick them up, carry them, drop them, but I found no use yet 08:33:33 kilobyte: it says on http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper2.php "Collecting enough treasure also allows you to find rare magical orbs, which grant you one-time or time-limited special abilities. " 08:33:42 maybe you haven't collected enough treasure to activate the orb? 08:36:18 source dived: it can be used if you return to one of earlier lands (Alchemist) to mess with floor around you 08:36:37 all other spoilers are in context help... 08:37:29 except for a misleading suggestion that you can kill greater demons if you gain more experience killing lessers 08:53:16 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:54 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:58 -!- KLANG has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:59:56 -!- ground4 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 09:00:26 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:53 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:05:35 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:09 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2423-gd1fab91: Fix gods not caring about deaths of elementals and other nonliving creatures 10(53 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d1fab9126b29 09:07:09 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2424-gf0e8d29: Djinni, gargoyles, lava orcs (???) don't have hair 10(29 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f0e8d29340a3 09:07:09 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2425-g80d31a4: Reword a statue form message 10(56 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=80d31a423309 09:07:09 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2426-g0223529: Remove bonus strength from Lichform 10(25 minutes ago, 3 files, 1+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0223529bb44b 09:07:09 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2427-g7d30827: Add wand charge draining as a Zot trap effect 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 26+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7d3082774307 09:08:27 eh, why would djinn not have hair? About every depiction is hairy. 09:08:47 well i thought they were made of fire 09:08:59 which would sort of limit hairiness :P 09:09:51 It still strikes me as odd that something made of fire (and thus air) and is a literal gas creature - is bad at dodging. 09:10:19 Bloax: cause zeppelins are so agile 09:10:48 Zeppelins aren't made of it silly. 09:11:10 tell that to the passengers of the hindenburg 09:11:19 They contain it in a balloon and use it to fly. 09:11:20 made. of. fire. 09:14:29 -!- Burer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:35 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:56 -!- StahLSigma has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:09 -!- TiggA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:19:54 beh, axing that strength bonus is quite annoying: in the late game where you keep lich form all the time, you have poor access to shashes (Zig, Pan) 09:20:06 why exactly did gods not caring about elementals/nonliving cause a problem? 09:20:51 well in the late game you don't keep lich form all the time unless you want to die, and if you want to carry lots of stuff that's what picking str on levelup is for presumably 09:21:22 flight had the carrying capacity bonus removed for the same reason 09:21:49 (and low-str carrying capacities were increased afterwards too!) 09:22:02 "unless you want to die"? You mean, when you are on a holy Pan or Zig level, and perhaps while fighting Eresh. 09:22:05 that's about it 09:22:20 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:50 or you want to drink potions 09:22:52 those are pretty useful 09:23:32 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 09:24:29 dropping all those dang potions is kind of like +3 str. who needs em 09:24:52 in most cases not suffering torment and mutations is better than instant access to potions, and if you feel you'll need one, that's a matter of 15 aut 09:25:41 no messing with food, too 09:30:25 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:34:11 ddoor is also really good 09:34:24 and often used in situations where you cant afford 15 aut 09:34:26 same for borgs 09:34:39 but i like necromut anyway 09:34:58 on the other hand, recasting it is a pain in the butt 09:35:06 yeah 09:35:32 -!- anidude has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:36:26 I wonder, what if those 15 aut became 100 aut instead? 09:36:43 then it would be almost completely worthless 09:36:45 ie, you can change back and forth but it takes a long ritual either way 09:36:48 eh? 09:38:03 one of downsides would be strenghtened, another eliminated 09:38:36 except that the inability to use potions is something you can plan for, while recasting is a major annoyance, mostly interface-wise 09:38:40 well one of those downsides is important and the other one is meaningless if you mean recasting 09:39:33 so strengthening the important downside just makes it straight-up a lot worse, regardless of whether the interface is easier or not 09:40:58 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:41:07 so you call it a massive downgrade while I call it a massive upgrade 09:41:40 ie, sounds like it wouldn't need extra balancing I was afraid it needs 09:41:45 well it seems completely self-evident that an awkward interface does not actually affect balance in any real way, i don't see how you can possibly think otherwise 09:41:53 certainly awkward interface is bad and could be fixed 09:41:54 if you use necromut for convenience while you can already pretty much steamroll the monsters you are fighting it may be a slight upgrade 09:42:12 if you actually need it, its a massive downgrade 09:42:32 alefury: avoiding torment is not exactly a minor issue 09:42:53 it can often be worked around in other ways 09:43:20 especially when you have almost 20 levels worth of exp in two skills to spend on other things 09:43:22 yes you can just play well and safely and avoid torment without removing your access to potions and spending a ton of experience 09:44:10 MarvinPA: would necromut be good as a level 7 spell? 09:44:20 i mean for actually winning? 09:45:31 well it's obviously useless for "actually winning" at any level, since torment doesn't really exist in a regular game 09:46:00 hm, okay, for winning with 15 runes 09:46:35 it would probably be good as single school Ne 09:46:50 but transmutations fits thematically 09:47:56 typical characters who necromutate have no other uses for Tmut 09:48:31 well right, that's a lot of what marvinpa is saying about the useless experience 09:48:46 and a major part of why the spell is sorta bad 09:49:06 well the useless experience isn't anywhere near as big a deal as trading access to potions for something that you can just get anyway by playing safely 09:49:13 if you consider it bad, why do you nerf it further? 09:50:23 it is completely obvious to anyone at all that if the problem with lichform is "trading potions for torment resistance is not a good trade" then the solution to that is not "ok well you should get +3 strength and +1 stealth as well" 09:51:02 the stealth was pointless, the strength was bad for the same reason that flying carrying capacity was bad 09:51:27 torment, mutation, rN+++, str+3, stealth, useless unarmed, necro boost, ... 09:51:46 it could certainly be improved somehow but not by tacking on meaningless extras 09:51:53 well, the necro boost is fairly irrelevant too 09:52:06 but at least it helps slightly with recasting necromutation 09:52:07 your dead will be even more animated 09:52:43 looks like there are two schools of using necromutation: 1. transform only rarely, 2. untransform only rarely 09:52:55 you argue for 1., yet you call it mostly pointless 09:52:57 i'm still curious about the elemental + god thing, non-living allies being acceptable seemed to make a ton of sense 09:53:28 and it's weird that now using the elemental evokers essentially has a de facto piety penalty for those gods now 09:53:28 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:54:11 alefury: right, "what is an elemental" 09:54:43 -!- Nightbeer is now known as Ladykiller69 09:54:46 well obviously there are some places where there are large numbers of tormentors that you can't easily take on one at a time but that is mostly just "tomb and some zig floors" 09:55:49 so yes those would be the places to transform 09:56:16 Even in tomb it's not obvious that you want to have necromutation 09:57:09 and yeah, even tomb doesn't really qualify there 09:57:38 ie, you don't want to use the spell at all, right? 09:58:26 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:49 well i use it in late zig floors but that is hardly a typical balance case and certainly it's not particularly useful elsewhere 09:59:22 or rather the usefulness is offset by how bad the downsides are 09:59:41 how about more ac? ac is really good 09:59:50 and liches have high ac! 10:00:04 alefury: you can still use full gear 10:00:19 how is that relevant? 10:00:25 I've had it on one or two characters, and it doesn't seem worth the exp even in a 15-rune game for most chars. (I haven't tried to complete a zig, but probably you don't want to balance for those in any case) 10:01:23 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:38 a fairly massive buff would be to roll a mini ddoor into it 10:01:57 instead of dying in lichform, you get something like 1-3 turns of ddoor 10:02:03 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02:12 probably way too strong though 10:02:19 For what it's worth, I actually like using necromutation a lot on characters who can viably reach it for extended, and I consider myself fairly non-terrible :P 10:02:30 Though I certainly don't run around in it constantly or anything 10:02:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:02:46 i like using it too, but because its convenient, not because its good 10:03:13 Convenient? 10:03:27 no eating, not having to worry about torment 10:03:47 Well, no eating doesn't seem to matter much. Being immune to torment seems more than just a convenience 10:04:07 you can usually deal with torment by using good tactics 10:04:18 if you dont have to deal with torment, you dont have to play well :) 10:04:29 provided you are already strong enough 10:05:05 Well, 'you can usually deal with it' doesn't mean that it doesn't help a lot. You can do lots of things without heavy resistances to do the effect in question, but it provides more than just a convenience benefit 10:05:13 the most irritating thing about torment is hell-effect fiend spawns 10:05:23 It would seem that necromutation is even worse with newxp 10:05:30 and how they make resting in hell take forever 10:05:35 kryft: Hmmm... that might be true 10:05:48 ontoclasm: youre not supposed to rest much in hell... 10:05:59 don't forget about mutations, this can make a massive difference 10:06:08 well, if resting in hell was actually likely to kill you, then yeah 10:06:16 but it doesn't kill you, it's just annoying 10:06:26 kilobyte: if you dont use necromutation you can wear rmut instead of clarity, basically 10:06:27 a random bad roll and you're going Zin 10:06:42 ontoclasm: that depends on when you do it 10:07:08 my last go at Mnoleg: berserkitis 2, blurry 2, dex -1, deterioration 3, herbi 1, fastmeta 1, frail 1, shoutits 2, slowheal 1, str -2 10:07:12 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:07:31 That is an... impressively long list to get from one vault 10:07:56 !lm * rune=obsidian min=xl 10:07:56 4213. [2011-02-20 02:31:12] hyperbolic the Spry (L18 SpAK) found an obsidian rune of Zot on turn 48404. (Geh:7) 10:08:09 not a single amulet of rMut spawned until that point (the first one was at Cerebov's IIRC) 10:08:40 did you have firestorm? 10:08:51 no, a melee char with no real way to ninja 10:09:04 uh, why? 10:09:16 firestorm tends to help against mutators, yeah 10:09:21 melee takes like 0 exp, on extended exp scale 10:09:33 it helps because you can use butterflies and vortices and not be mutated 10:09:55 The point about necromutation requiring even MORE of a massive xp investment now does give me pause, to be honest, since it was already very large for a (to many people) debatable benefit 10:10:11 how big is the effect of newexp on skills? 10:10:19 Necromutation isn't all that good. 10:10:27 alefury: Decently noticable 10:10:28 And usually just taken as a precaution 10:10:38 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:38 In midgame and beyond 10:10:45 It seems pretty noticeable in a 3-rune game 10:10:53 that was the point iirc 10:10:59 Bloax: btw, if i'm going to put in your ugly thing tiles i'll need very ugly ones to match 10:11:10 I do wonder if maybe it would not be unreasonable to lower necromutation's level, or make it pure necromancy 10:11:13 how about the bog gbody 10:11:15 in terms of actual changes i would suggest making the untransform time 10 aut instead of 15 for a start, anyway 10:11:23 s/gbody/body 10:11:30 i'll probably put the bog body and rotting hulk in 10:11:35 just haven't got around to it 10:11:43 MarvinPA: that doesnt seem like enough to make it actually good... 10:11:57 It's not meant to. 10:12:03 but it's a start 10:12:11 MarvinPA: makes it less of a decision to go as lich or not 10:12:29 heck, it could be interesting to make it uncancellable, ever 10:12:47 would need some buffs, of course 10:12:55 "Are you sure you want to become a lich?" 10:13:10 well you would think part of being good at transmutations would be being good at entering and exiting them 10:13:32 I've wondered if permalichform would be an interesting 6* blessing for some god. 10:13:33 and the entire point of them is sort of to toggle on situationally 10:13:36 (Possibly a new god.) 10:13:51 yredelemnul 10:13:51 (Not that we don't already have enough necromancy deities.) 10:13:56 Grunt: quite boring because you lose all the other gods 10:14:02 Since he wants you dead anyways. 10:14:24 I wonder, perhaps it could be added as an experiment, even besides regular Necromutation? 10:14:55 Pray at the altar to be permanently suffused with the power of Yredelemnul. 10:14:58 get buffs 10:15:03 become mummy 10:15:11 (except not a mummy but yeah) 10:15:41 there was some discussion about some kind of permalichform at some point, it would be pretty cool, but really bad, because potions are great, and the other high level necro spells are great too 10:16:03 [brb] 10:16:16 give a permalich augmentation or something similar 10:16:17 Yes, if it was going to exist at all, it would need to do something a lot more impressive than necromutation currently can 10:16:19 as a god blessing it would be better because you don't lose all your necro and tm investment, but still pretty bad because potions are really good 10:16:55 DracoOmega: try searching the irc logs for phylactery, maybe 10:16:58 i think letting people make double-edged permanent decisions is interesting and basically nonexistent in the current game other than skill investment 10:17:18 MarvinPA: Do you think lowering it to level 7 or something might be reasonable, incidentally? I hadn't really considered this prior to today's discussion, but.... 10:18:09 well the problem is that that would encourage people to use it and play badly and die because of it :P 10:18:26 This is a bad thing? ^^; 10:18:28 What, we don't want playing badly to result in death? :b 10:18:52 (right before this started i was reading a thread where someone was dying because of lichform and refusing to admit it was lichform's fault) 10:19:11 Well, I think that kind of problem is hard to address by any means, to be honest 10:19:19 that seems like exactly the sort of death you actually want 10:19:21 If someone just won't listen to other experienced people 10:19:47 and also torment res isn't useful until late anyway so making it easier to access early doesn't change much other than reducing the xp tax 10:20:01 Well, reducing the xp tax matters more now that there's a lot less xp, I mean 10:20:31 Yes, it's still mostly an extended thing, but I think it feels a bit more prohibitive now 10:20:33 right, i get that that's the reason but still, it seems good to make clear that it's really not useful if you're not doing crazy things in hell/pan/tomb 10:20:53 i have no clue how big the xp changes work out to be by that point though 10:21:07 so maybe it'd still be fine to reduce, dunno 10:21:30 I sort of don't think making it higher level makes people think it's less likely to be useful early, since high level tends to mean MORE powerful in general 10:22:24 it just seems to me like it encourages bad play and bad tactics and i'm not a fan of making that easier to access 10:22:38 this sort of seems to be true of all high level magic 10:22:57 maybe not high end summonings 10:23:07 Necromutation is pretty bad for a level 8 spell. 10:23:20 but characters that seem single mindedly focused on getting storm spells often seem pretty feeble to me 10:23:31 and that appears to be a super common move among conjuring types 10:23:32 It cuts your access to stuff like Borgnjor's (which is insanely good) and potions. 10:23:40 In exchange you get... Torment immunity. 10:23:48 MarvinPA: To be honest 'people use this spell stupidly' seems like a somewhat poor reason to affect a spell's level, and I don't see how any change to that can affect how stupidly they use it, aside from making it impossible to get altogether 10:23:49 And that's about the only notable thing about it. 10:24:19 MarvinPA: You could argue that it being higher level means that people will just have worse OTHER skills as they rush to get it, making them even worse off! :P 10:24:48 I don't know, +6 protection ring with +rc and mr that takes no slot, seems notable to me 10:25:04 oh, and str+3 10:25:08 no more str+3 10:25:13 it's a level 8 spell 10:25:24 you could've just invested all that transmutations/necro experience in like 10:25:28 fire/conjurations 10:25:32 and almost have firestorm 10:25:33 well with high level conjurations you are necessarily getting other useful stuff on the way, probably if you rush for lichform you will just die before reaching it due to terrible skilling 10:25:44 (Depending on your aptitudes of course.) 10:26:05 Which is a considerably better spell than necromutation because it kills stuff very messily. 10:26:10 how many people are rushing for lichform though? 10:26:10 anyway i would rather make it less bad and leave it high level but i have no particular suggestions how other than reduce untransform time 10:26:13 also brb food 10:26:41 it seems like the dominant users of lichform are storm casters 10:26:53 who presumably start dumping exp in there after they have the storm spell 10:27:38 oh yeah it also removes pesky spell hunger 10:28:02 -!- Wehk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:11 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:22 Which doesn't matter to the transmuter demographic at all. 10:34:34 one thing about the mr bonus that was pointed out to me the last time lich form was discussed: confusion is really bad, still somewhat relevant when people have necromutation, and you cant get out of it in lich form, making the mr bonus somewhat less useful 10:34:51 i dont know whether this is really true, because the mr formula is really weird 10:35:03 @??lich 10:35:04 lich (15L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 59-99 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 1513(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2789 | Sp: b.cold (3d29), paralyse, greater demon, animate dead, iron shot (3d34), teleport self / b.draining (3d27), slow, invisibility, throw icicle (3d29), cr.. 10:35:11 note MR 10:35:15 Well innate clarity while in necromutation would be quite something. 10:35:37 what if you just made lichform have magic immunity 10:35:54 my old idea was to have that 10 turn ritual be castable later to absorb a potion into your body 10:36:06 I think their MR multiplier brings you pretty close to immunity, if I recall 10:36:07 (ie, strategic potions only: can heal rot, etc) 10:36:21 this was also brought up when permalichform was discussed 10:36:25 but I wonder: what if it took a regular single 10 aut turn? 10:36:40 Well if it's already close, why not just make it so? 10:36:43 ie, you would be able to drink potions at a steep cost of mana 10:37:12 interesting 10:37:27 still, all the problems with toggled spells would still be there 10:37:30 if you had magic immunity what would be capable of confusing you? xom effects? anything else? 10:37:39 ackack: Zot traps 10:37:42 cboe? 10:37:47 Cboe too, yes 10:37:52 ok that would be a big deal 10:37:55 possibly hell effects? i dont know if confusion is one 10:38:08 probably some miscast confuses 10:38:44 zot trap confusion seems like it would be fine, hell effect and cboe would still be a problem 10:39:20 Fine in what way? It's really quite bad if you can't fix it. 10:39:47 it's fine in the sense that it seems like an acceptable amount of risk to me 10:39:55 plus at least somewhat avoidable 10:40:19 i think in my forays through extended i've walked into a zot trap or had it invoked against me maybe 2-3 times per game 10:40:24 The power of zot is invoked against you! 10:40:26 You are confused. 10:40:31 so it would need to do that, and then also be confusion, etc. 10:41:12 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 10:41:12 if you were worried about it you could train more traps 10:41:19 hell effects by contrast there is just nothing you could do anything about 10:41:26 other than try to do hell faster 10:41:30 wear clarity? 10:41:38 as i said, im not even sure confusion is a hell effect 10:41:45 well yes, i mean if we're trying to think of ways to boost lichform's usefulness here 10:41:58 Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't see why necromut would need a buff. Other than _maybe_ something to go with the xp changes. 10:42:15 my question was whether magic immunity would be sufficient to clear out a lot of the confusion risk 10:42:27 Medar: at least, it doesn't need a nerf like one it just got 10:42:46 Losing the strength bonus is about one inch away from meaningless 10:42:50 ackack: not all of the risk, but would help greatly 10:42:53 yeah that is not much of a nerf ast all 10:43:03 could be even too good vs sphinxes 10:43:33 Was there anything else than the strength and the general xp changes? 10:43:40 If anything the change makes necromutation slightly better for me because it's less annoying (which I assume was the intention behind the change) 10:43:50 Exactly. 10:43:53 kryft: I am pretty sure it was, yes 10:43:56 Medar: And no 10:44:15 I still think level 7 would be pretty high level, to be honest 10:44:39 Especially when you consider the investment in a secondary school that many people using necromutation have no other use for 10:44:45 i think that's the key point 10:44:55 lichform has limitations but if it were cheap that's fine, it's a useful tool 10:45:05 DracoOmega: or 9 pure Necr 10:45:31 Yes, if lich form were pure necro it would be much more attractive 10:46:10 I wonder if 9 pure necro is really that much cheaper than 8 two-school, given how steep the upper levels of skills cost, but certainly heavy necro investment means more 10:46:17 level 9 spells are drastically harder to cast than level 7 ones, so it would come at an comparable point in the game 10:46:22 8 pure ne seems kinda ok to me 10:46:49 one thing about having it transmut is i assume that's what locks out the other forms from being used with it 10:46:50 I bet people would still use it a lot, even without further changes. Sure it takes a lot of xp, but you don't need to get it down to no failure and you can use staff of wizardry 10:46:59 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:40 ackack: It being a form is what locks it out, whether it's part transmutation or not 10:48:12 -!- Dogers has quit [Client Quit] 10:48:38 Guess it's different if you care about speed running or other such things, but if not there is still a lot of XP available before you really need it. 10:49:40 Is necromutation really as powerful as a level 9 spell? 10:49:49 Hi Medar; have you seen: 10:49:51 !bug 7332 10:49:51 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7332 10:50:42 Yes, but haven't had time to investigate. 10:50:51 ...as long as you're aware of it :) 10:51:09 Borgnjor's and DDoor are very attractive spells that necromutation locks you out of. 10:51:24 And probably won't have for a while longer, if someone else wants to experience the wonders of WebTiles code :p 10:51:41 (edlothiol?) 10:52:32 Actually, I am fairly sure that level 9 pure necromancy necromutation costs more xp than level 8 necro/transmutation currently does, looking at this 10:52:43 and is there ANYONE who can fix local tile problems? 10:53:08 Well, I'm sure I can fix SOME of them 10:53:24 Theoretically 10:53:46 (But although that is the version I play most, it's true that most of the tile-related code is unfamiliar to me) 10:55:01 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 10:55:13 1. resize/multi-head/window size problems, 2. possible transition to SDL2, 3. fontconfig, 4. it not working on most graphics cards 10:55:17 the list is long 10:55:18 kilobyte: It looks like 22/16 skills for current necromutation on a relatively average high level character equate to about the same success rate as 27 for a pure level 9 spell, and I am fairly sure that 22->27 costs more than 0->16 10:55:26 Oh THAT kind of stuff 10:55:28 Perhaps not.... 10:55:36 yeah :( 10:56:12 -!- orionstein has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:30 looks like SDL2 fixes quite a bit of woes, and would allow dropping that separate copy of SDL1.3 alpha just for Android 10:56:43 -!- Vandal has quit [] 10:56:59 SDL2 actually exists now? It was pending for so long I had assumed it was vaporware 10:58:01 june 16 10:58:32 Oh, huh 10:58:33 yeah, like 10 years of "quite soon now, for real" 10:59:25 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: oh god how do i internets] 11:00:18 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 11:01:39 duke nukem forever of libraries 11:04:15 Heh, I've been trying to find some representative example of character skill levels before and after the xp change, but it's amazing how hard it is to find a log file from two characters that are directly comparable (and which aren't just MiBes or something) 11:04:27 Given the short length of time that has passed since the change 11:05:11 Since even with two characters that are roughly similar, one might have skipped a bunch of branches, and the other not 11:05:30 sdl2 had existed in a mostly usable form (barring a few broken things on a few platforms) in hg for a _long_ time 11:07:22 DracoOmega: whats wrong with mibes? 11:07:37 alefury: Well, I was trying to get something that might splash for necromutation, in this case 11:07:50 haha, oh 11:07:52 DEFE? 11:08:00 although those tend to diverge a bit 11:08:03 Your best bet would probably have me do another DEWz of Chei and see when I'll have both icestorm and necromutation. 11:08:07 None won since the change! 11:08:36 !lg Bloax DEWz won -log 11:08:37 1. Bloax, XL27 DEWz, T:108237: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20120815-185844.txt 11:08:57 kilobyte, what exactly is wrong with the opengl code of local tiles, anyway? 11:09:13 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:24 kilobyte, "not working on most graphics cards" is a bit of a stretch, I think, since it works on my geforce2 ;P 11:09:33 Jesus Christ how did I manage to have necromutation at 6% with 13 necro/transmutations. 11:10:19 Zaba: And on about a half-dozen or more different computers I have personally seen/used it on 11:10:56 Zaba: this is wrong: "works on my geforce2" 11:11:08 unless it goes through the software rasterizer? I wouldn't know. 11:11:10 Zaba: probably intel cards had/have problems with opengl 11:11:15 should be "works everywhere with a graphical display of sufficient resolution" 11:11:37 also a lot of people are stupid about installing drivers 11:11:52 like, say, tiles games from 1900s 11:12:04 er, 1990s 11:12:15 anyway, i leave you with a loud "not this again!" 11:12:22 :p 11:12:26 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 22.0/20130626043228]] 11:12:39 * kilobyte throws a raspi at alefury :p 11:13:04 well, sdl2 has a render API that can be backed by either terrible opengl/opengl es or a software renderer 11:13:19 yeah! 11:13:28 which is separate from its opengl context creation functionality 11:13:37 -!- dcss99739 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:46 * kilobyte doesn't know its new API, merely the feature list. 11:14:32 http://hg.libsdl.org/SDL/file/4310d5aee6fe/include/SDL_render.h 11:15:32 huh 11:15:40 Apparently deep elves don't have +1 air. 11:16:52 they used to, now they don't 11:17:11 they had 1 air, 0 earth but they got switched 11:17:56 Well it strikes me as odd simply because it's literally the only school they're below 1 in. 11:18:13 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2428-ga2c6faf: Drop buggy pointless statue renames. 10(14 hours ago, 3 files, 0+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a2c6faf58c27 11:18:13 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2429-g7dda1f6: Drop a pointless fountain rename. 10(14 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7dda1f64704c 11:18:13 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2430-gc8a444d: Fix the player not getting hit by collateral sticky flame splash. 10(8 hours ago, 2 files, 15+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c8a444dcd674 11:18:13 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2431-ged3b67e: Axe two uses of los_glob. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ed3b67e99287 11:18:13 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2432-g5caa1cc: Revert djinn not having hair. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5caa1cca98d5 11:18:13 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2433-ge8bf1fd: A .de quote for the Temple, erase a copy of .pl misplaced as .en. 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 13+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e8bf1fdf90ec 11:18:50 haha 11:18:52 what 11:18:55 djinn hair 11:19:01 important feature 11:19:03 yes 11:19:26 fr: fire proof hair gel 11:20:19 http://i.imgur.com/s8zTTxn.jpg 11:21:31 lol 11:21:38 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:21:39 * kilobyte sics some deep tengu at you. 11:21:53 deep tengu air mages, I presume? 11:22:01 >_> 11:22:10 haha 11:22:18 to cast tornado 11:22:36 for dramatic hair blowing wind 11:23:07 Dramatic Wind, L1 air spell; causes everything nearby to skip a turn or two as they gaze in awe at your dramatic pose. 11:23:18 Extra turns for wearing a cloak. 11:24:53 Bloax: with a beard 11:25:21 only works if you stand still 11:25:33 LexAckson_: http://lothonline.com/comics/335 11:25:47 Grunt: <3 11:26:14 hahahaha 11:26:17 excellent 11:29:52 -!- Mottie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:32 i was going to ask why we have a function to tell if the player has hair 11:30:39 but uh 11:30:52 Cosmetic purposes. 11:30:56 having seen crawl's code i am not surprised 11:30:57 Xom thinks this is hilarious. 11:31:07 fr cosmetologist background 11:31:12 hair mages? 11:31:25 ontoclasm, only if we also get fashionistas. 11:31:30 Skill bonuses for wearing matching armour. 11:31:50 start with a +1 hair brush of distortion 11:31:59 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2434-ga0ae079: Remove gloom 10(5 minutes ago, 11 files, 32+ 66-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a0ae0798b3ff 11:32:15 rip gloom 11:33:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:49 actually, we have it in two redundant copies that are out of sync 11:33:50 one for Xom messages, one for displaying hair in tiles 11:34:01 * kilobyte claps. 11:34:04 beautiful 11:34:14 1learn edit crawl_code 11:34:20 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:27 good job, MarvinPA. All it did was confusing the hell out of everyone. 11:34:53 yeah i kept forgetting about it since it's so rare but having no glyph is really annoying :( 11:35:21 what with Homunculus? Does anyone have any hope of finishint it? 11:35:29 The what? 11:35:45 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:52 i think the fizzing potion enum was scheduled for removal already maybe? not certain though 11:36:32 although obviously that could be reverted if anyone does feel like working on it (it was a tmut? spell planned by due that turned good potions into temporary allies) 11:36:43 Grunt: a spell that turns a potion of your choice into a "fizzing potion" that a while later summons a Homunculus or a Soupling 11:36:48 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 11:36:50 ... 11:37:25 MarvinPA: should I remove it then? Or shall we discuss it first? 11:37:42 i think at this point it's probably safe to remove, it's been around so long 11:38:01 and if anyone does come up with a good idea for it inspired by the removal we can always revert :P 11:39:53 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:21 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:55 -!- Mottie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:50:25 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:32 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:27 -!- Mottie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:53 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:01:39 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:14 -!- tJener has quit [Changing host] 12:02:59 -!- steve2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:03:58 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:00 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:06:16 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:06:45 -!- santiago has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:27 -!- Rebenga has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:27 -!- wh1te has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:27 -!- Wah has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:28 -!- oberstein has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:28 -!- Kintak has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:28 -!- Kalma has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:28 -!- atrodo has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:28 -!- djinni_ has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:29 -!- geekosaur has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:29 -!- brainwrinkle has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:29 -!- Furril has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:29 -!- atomicth1mbs has quit [*.net *.split] 12:07:29 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [*.net *.split] 12:08:44 -!- xnavy has quit [Killed (holmes.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 12:08:44 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 12:09:23 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:37 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:45 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:55 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:05 -!- wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:05 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:05 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:05 -!- djinni_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:20 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2435-g8f5de32: Cancel Searing Ray when resting 10(56 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8f5de329affb 12:11:52 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:12:31 -!- zero_one has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:14:48 MarvinPA: Wait, does resting not actually use CMD_REST? 12:15:43 i think it starts a delay and the delay uses CMD_MOVE_NOWHERE 12:16:04 so i guess CMD_REST gets overwritten and doesn't end up set as the previous command maybe? 12:16:31 oh wait what am i on about, i just looked at this bit of code 12:16:45 when you're resting the bit with do_searing_ray doesn't even get reached 12:17:43 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2434-ga0ae079 (34) 12:18:10 _input does the delay stuff and then returns, then at the end of the rest you have MOVE_NOWHERE as your previous command and the ray carries on firing 12:18:25 something like that anyway, it's too hot to think properly 12:18:32 Ah, after the many turns resting, you mean 12:18:34 It resumes 12:18:34 right 12:18:36 Haha 12:18:56 I never thought to test it, since rest was its own command and thus 'obviously' would be no problem 12:19:07 yeah, i just noticed someone mention it in ##crawl 12:19:09 So much for that :P 12:19:16 heh :) 12:21:44 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:22:51 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:55 -!- poenic has quit [Client Quit] 12:25:30 -!- wHATEver is now known as Guest80556 12:26:27 -!- |amethys1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:00 -!- rax_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:29 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:34 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:05 -!- Zannick has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:29:10 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq is now known as Zannick 12:29:58 -!- Eldarby has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:09 -!- poenic has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 12:31:41 -!- johnsteinVPS has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:47 -!- Hailey has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 12:34:04 -!- rax has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:34:57 -!- Duralumin has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- ground4 has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- mindblank has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- Hailley has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- Bloax has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- moxian has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- morik has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- |amethyst has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- Comradin has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- myp has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- buki has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:57 -!- Nerem has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:58 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:58 -!- johnstein has quit [*.net *.split] 12:34:58 -!- Zephryn has quit [*.net *.split] 12:35:21 -!- Duralumin_ is now known as Duralumin 12:36:06 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:30 -!- johnsteinVPS is now known as johnstein 12:39:08 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:10 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:39:47 -!- Nightbeer is now known as Ladykiller69 12:44:25 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:35 -!- Gmork has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:44:53 -!- mumra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:49:00 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:52 You destroy the oklob plant! Cheibriados appreciates the change of pace. 12:54:57 ...this seems buggy. 12:55:18 -!- Marbit has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:56 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:00:34 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:04 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 13:01:05 -!- dcss95894 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:01:51 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:35 -!- orionstein has quit [Client Quit] 13:05:37 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:32 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:19 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:24 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 13:08:42 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:09:31 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:43 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 13:10:44 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:52 -!- lainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10:56 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Quit: Specialization is for Insects] 13:11:01 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:11:02 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:12 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:32 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:42 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:55 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:56 -!- JohnQuixote has quit [Quit: JohnQuixote] 13:15:05 Grunt: there's an ancient bug report for it somewhere probably, mainly the issue is that chei is inconsistent in whether it's movement speed or action speed he cares about 13:15:32 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 13:16:52 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:19:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:23:15 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:26 -!- Guest62734 is now known as SwissStopwatch 13:28:21 -!- moxian has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:33:38 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:34:11 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:42:02 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:30 -!- Guest46932 is now known as magicpoints 13:45:47 -!- Aponym has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:47:14 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:17 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:28 -!- MarvinPA__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:06 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:51:08 -!- MarvinPA__ is now known as MarvinPA 13:52:04 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:37 -!- tesudzi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:52:43 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 13:52:49 -!- Stelpa has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:09 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:54:24 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:09 -!- kronusdark has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:01:11 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:47 -!- mumra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:50 -!- anidude_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:11:11 pubby (L10 TrCK) ASSERT(!aimed_at_feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 666 failed. (Abyss:2) 14:11:40 !lm pubby crash -log 14:11:41 3. pubby, XL3 MuCK, T:1971 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/pubby/crash-pubby-20130528-205324.txt 14:11:49 !lm pubby crash -log 14:11:50 3. pubby, XL3 MuCK, T:1971 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/pubby/crash-pubby-20130528-205324.txt 14:11:59 *thumbtwiddle* 14:12:10 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/pubby/crash-pubby-20130716-191110.txt 14:13:09 line 666, eh? 14:20:47 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:29 mmm 14:23:40 You feel healthy. You feel yourself wasting away. Your muscles feel sore. 14:23:43 on a gr 14:24:16 "A" list shows both innate "immune to poison" and mutation "resistant to poisons" 14:24:17 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:24:40 -!- notlainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:28:13 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:54 geekosaur: that's a Gr who's been converted from a certain build, right? 14:34:03 hmm, doh 14:34:31 no, I started this game with this version 14:34:52 I'm trying to find the save file so I can attach to the mantis ticket I'm filing (don't know how devel builds save stuff) 14:35:07 oh, I see, saves in the normal place 14:35:53 found, fixed 14:36:03 lemme update old saves, too 14:36:08 even though that's harmless 14:38:59 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2436-g409f2ac: Let homunculi and souplings fizz away. 10(3 hours ago, 12 files, 16+ 26-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=409f2aceb62e 14:38:59 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2437-g7d6dd4a: Remove Pan. 10(3 hours ago, 8 files, 5+ 38-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7d6dd4ae4fda 14:38:59 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2438-g450ae40: Don't call needles of frenzy "berserk". 10(3 hours ago, 13 files, 17+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=450ae40ee5e0 14:38:59 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2439-gb4ab1ab: Deprive cpt. Obvious of some comments. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b4ab1ab577d7 14:38:59 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2440-gcd8fa31: Don't let gargoyles become resistant to poison via mutating. 10(8 minutes ago, 2 files, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cd8fa31a1662 14:39:57 kilobyte: good misleading commit message in there <_< 14:40:02 (seems like an appropriate sendoff) 14:40:39 Hm, the frenzy ego description could use an update. 14:41:17 "It is tipped with a substance that causes a mindless, berserk rage, making people attack friend and foe alike." 14:41:27 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:34 Calling it "berserk" there is a bit misleading. 14:42:01 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:12 kilobyte: you got me for like half a second 14:42:19 It is tipped with a substance that causes the subject to go on a mindless frenzy, attacking anything nearby - whether friend or foe. 14:42:59 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2441-g57b4654: s/berserk// in the desc of needles of frenzy as well. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=57b46543c21a 14:45:35 * Grunt nods in approval; that's probably sufficient. 14:49:40 "This rod can be used up close and personal to clobber 'em good." 14:49:42 sounds ok? 14:50:38 * kilobyte ponders s/striking/spanking/. 14:50:40 That's intended to be the primary use of the rod, yes? 14:50:47 yes 14:50:55 I'd s/can be used/should be used/ or s/can be used/intended to be used/ in that case. 14:51:06 er, "is intended to be used" 14:51:26 -!- Somepony is now known as Aponym 14:51:27 Might just be me though. 14:51:41 cool :) 14:53:11 Hmm, I guess we can't use the word smite :-( 14:53:14 kind of a shame 14:58:10 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:34 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:13 -!- six40sword has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:34 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:24 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 15:12:47 -!- buki_ is now known as buki 15:13:58 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:54 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Óõîæó ÿ îò âàñ (xchat 2.4.5 èëè ñòàðøå)] 15:16:26 Apparently saying no on a prompt to read a scroll of vorpalize weapon to permabrand a weapon near your allies still uses the scroll. 15:16:42 (and it asks because permabranding makes things go BOOM) 15:21:40 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:23:07 -!- blabber has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:16 apparently there are bugs in crawl 15:23:25 * kilobyte remembers some HOPr's epic splat this way. 15:28:48 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:38:55 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 15:39:02 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2442-g8676125: A couple of abstract vaults. 10(43 seconds ago, 2 files, 129+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=86761251c611 15:40:36 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdou] 15:41:32 was that where they read vorpalize weapon over deep water? 15:42:27 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:32 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:47:21 -!- mindblank has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:49:22 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 15:50:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:50:36 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:54 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:57:05 -!- pantaril has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:04 -!- wvc has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:34 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Óõîæó ÿ îò âàñ (xchat 2.4.5 èëè ñòàðøå)] 16:03:14 -!- dosman711 is now known as dosman711` 16:09:30 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:46 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:14:28 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:51 -!- santiago has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:34 Grunt: You monster. You removed all of Pan 16:19:51 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:48 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:54 gammafunk: that commit doesn't say "Grunt" next to it. :P 16:23:53 Zannick: You're right 16:24:07 I think I'll blame Grunt anyways, if that's ok 16:24:43 Grunt: I stil blame you for removing all of Pan, even if it was kilobyte 16:27:29 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:59 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:31:43 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:34:28 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:35:09 you could have prevented this 16:35:42 ? 16:36:50 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: This is not a desk. It is not being flipped.] 16:40:03 Sure, blame me for everything. I *am* known for sowing Discord, after all. 16:40:06 <_< 16:40:07 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 16:42:11 gammafunk: all 48 lines of Pan? 16:45:24 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:50:31 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 16:52:01 -!- moxian has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:55:29 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:39 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:02 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 16:56:51 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:38 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:59 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 17:03:48 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:46 -!- y2s82_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 17:06:01 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:06:18 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10:13 -!- aves has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:10:58 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:24 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping 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17:53:36 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:03 -!- sacje has quit [Excess Flood] 17:57:14 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: This is not a desk. It is not being flipped.] 17:57:27 -!- mindblank has quit [] 17:57:35 -!- Zeia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:08:27 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:09:54 -!- culcube is now known as phyphor 18:12:38 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:14:36 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:16:15 looks like some singing sword lines got messed up 18:16:17 one at least 18:16:18 [18:15] The Screaming Sword cautions, "Never send @a_player_genus@ to do a blade's job!" 18:20:36 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:30:59 hm i thought i fixed that 18:31:09 maybe i imagined it 18:33:04 perhaps 18:33:12 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:59 for what race? 18:34:43 -!- Wehk has left ##crawl-dev 18:36:10 Ds 18:36:17 it happens for every race, that speech key just doesn't exist (i defininitely remember looking into it even if i didn't fix it) 18:36:30 ah 18:37:09 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2443-g0e7fb94: Give the rod of striking SPELL_MELEE. It's clobberin' time! 10(2 hours ago, 14 files, 48+ 53-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0e7fb9496946 18:37:30 beh, I'm wasting three hours already testing formulas for this stupid rod, it's your time 18:38:34 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:35 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Quit: The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese] 18:40:52 To evoke this rod, please apply it to someone's body part of your choice. 18:40:52 -!- moxian has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:40:59 <3 18:41:02 @a_player_genus@ gets replaced only in monster speech, not weapon noises 18:41:03 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:41:39 dumb 18:42:14 Elephant zombies can trample goldfish out of water. by Lasty 18:42:34 Grunt: if my formulas are totally bogus, the old rod was striking, so replacing it with a wet noodle would still be an improvement 18:49:46 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:14 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:48 Health: 57/61 (63) 18:59:48 Magic: 33/32 19:00:10 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 19:01:09 i just had some weirdness casting sting at grum. who was possibly maximally poisoned before i cast? 19:01:29 anyway, it wouldn't let me cast sting, so i backed out and the aiming trail remained 19:02:50 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:08:27 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:14:03 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:14:22 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2444-g33d5514: Revert accidental unconstification. 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=33d5514f9e53 19:14:22 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2445-g334f978: Replace @a_player_genus@ in weapon noises. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=334f978988fc 19:14:24 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:16:50 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:32 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 19:24:30 System Crash on Startup by MADDOGmjb 19:27:36 mmm an unprivileged process killing an operating system dead 19:28:10 ouch 19:28:40 (at least their window manager, although AFAIK they special-case certain GUI functionality deep close to the kernel) 19:28:59 oh it's just a DoS 19:29:37 yeah, I think the kernel even owns tooltip windows ... 19:31:22 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:31:27 which means that if you somehow end up with a tooltip window that won't go away, you can't just kill something to make it go away 19:31:34 not sure how to respond to this bug report 19:31:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:32:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:30 oh, *that*'s what that is 19:32:32 ew 19:32:41 (the tooltips) 19:33:36 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:58 -!- Nakalein has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:06 -!- Fear has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:42 -!- Fear has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:07:38 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 20:07:51 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:56 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:09:41 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:21 -!- Solace has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:10:59 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:12:05 -!- ground4_ is now known as ground4 20:22:37 -!- fdel has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:30:25 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:25 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:31:25 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:40:35 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:57 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 20:45:12 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:51 -!- Poncheis has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:33 http://sprunge.us/BhfY 20:55:55 (That was easier than I expected it to be, considering how hard some other people have been working on tis.) 20:55:58 s/tis/this/ 21:04:08 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:34 -!- heteroy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:52 -!- grathtarg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:58 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:27 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:35 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:16:52 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:22 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 21:20:00 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:22:47 -!- myr0 has quit [] 21:22:54 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:31:52 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:57 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:32:38 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:44 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:06 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:20 grunt: the placement in status.cc makes me briefly think of a monster that forces the player to recite 21:35:16 moth of fanaticism; forces you to use god abilities. 21:35:48 lol 21:50:09 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:21 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 21:59:19 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:34 -!- Gamesmaster has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:12 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:06 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:44 -!- Fear has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:03 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:15:40 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:16:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:41 i hope moth of nihilism happens 22:30:23 -!- rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:34:40 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 22:38:47 Grunt: does it still need to stop upon taking damage if you can still act during it? 22:39:06 (also, cool) 22:40:03 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:55 also, forced recite... for xom 22:42:00 good rare xom effect 22:42:06 gives you yiuf speech 22:44:33 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 22:46:06 MarvinPA, I'm undecided on that at the moment, but it's easy enough to remove if we decide we don't want that. 22:46:24 I'm also going to have reading a scroll or casting a spell interrupt reciting. 22:46:38 (... because you obviously can't pronounce two things at once.) 22:46:40 yeah 22:47:57 i guess that is nicer than the alternative of just forcing you to finish the recite (and making effectively silenced during the duration) :p 22:48:11 I considered that first, but this approach seems fairer. 22:48:26 It's not as though Zin is putting words in your mouth and forcing you to speak. :b 22:48:34 why can't it be that 22:49:35 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 22:49:52 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:33 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: later] 22:55:20 ...updated version: http://sprunge.us/YTEc 22:55:41 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.9 sic populo comunicated] 22:56:12 -!- Quashie has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56:15 Assuming we like how this turns out, we can discuss what makes sense for interrupting things, what we want to allow/disallow the player from doing while this is active (I think the current form of it should work out fine), etc. 22:56:41 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:57:31 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:12 .oO { it *is* a god ability... "remember and keep in one word"? } 22:58:41 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:22 o_O? 22:59:25 -!- Quashie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:14 there's a Jewish tradition that God said "remember" and "keep" at the same time when giving the Ten "Commandments" 23:01:33 Aha. 23:01:51 Well, mere mortals tend not to be able to do that, probably even with divine empowerment :) 23:02:01 (because in one place the commandment is "you shall keep My sabbaths" and in another it's "you shall remember My sabbaths") 23:02:35 hmm, I guess blaming lazy people for the latter would be kind of odd 23:03:10 it *is* religion... the decisions people make about it aren't always rational 23:03:32 geekosaur: hah, any source link? 23:03:35 (the rational version is that Moses' restatement of it was slightly off) 23:03:46 elliott: I'm preempting some of your work <_< 23:03:52 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 23:04:39 how source-y? I could point you to the original Hebrew even (one in Exodus, one in Deutoronomy) but not sure it'd do you any good :) 23:04:55 I meant, for the remember and keep in a single word thing 23:06:16 Grunt: Is recite range related to volume? Or is it always LOS? 23:06:36 It is always LOS. 23:06:39 yes, so did I. there's *lots* of "sources" including one very common welcoming-the-Sabbath song 23:07:15 oh sorry, slight translation issue... remember vs. observe, not keep (although that word is also mixed in) 23:08:35 (oh bah, why won't google do the doc-to-html thing on this...) 23:10:33 Grunt: I think volume-targetted Recite would be hilarious only because it gets even less likely to see any use as you gain piety. 23:10:34 right, keep vs. observe, different translations applied to the same word (shamor) 23:13:02 well, here's one discussion of it that is in a halfway sensible form (i.e. not pdf or doc{,x})... http://www.emanuelnyc.org/torah.php?sps_print=1 23:13:20 not quite a traditional source though :) 23:14:41 "Talmud Bavli, Sh’vuot 20b, tells us that /Zachor/ and /Shamor/ were pronounced in a single utterance — an utterance which the mouth cannot utter, nor the ear can hear." 23:15:58 although I suppose that also counts out having it granted as a god ability :) 23:16:41 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2446-g1848915: Turn Recite into a duration instead of a delay. 10(2 hours ago, 16 files, 148+ 133-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=18489159b62e 23:16:57 how could anyone tell this happened if the ear can't hear that 23:19:04 the usual explanation is that, for the brief time when God was giving the Ten Statements, k'lal Israel was temporarily elevated to the status of angels (this is also used to explain various other things, like how they could be hearing God directly in the first place) 23:19:32 I would have just assumed that god was causing air to vibrate 23:20:30 *direct* "face to face" encounters with God don't generally go so well. 23:21:20 I mean, they heard God (as a voice emanating from the Tent of Meeting) a number of times, but this was a bit more direct 23:21:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:50 but, I probably shouldn't be turning this channel into ##jewgeekery :p 23:22:10 geekosaur: thanks 23:22:14 yes, reportedly looking into the face of God is fatal, it's true 23:22:57 -!- tJener has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:23:21 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:35:42 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:29 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2447-g8dda2b7: Don't display Breath when reciting; just Recite. 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8dda2b7e6c8b 23:36:29 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2448-ge048cbf: Breath weapons also interrupt recitation. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e048cbf1f5ec 23:36:29 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2449-g11dc6ff: Disallow reciting again when you're already reciting. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=11dc6ff47a98 23:37:59 -!- xFleury has joined ##crawl-dev 23:39:02 -!- dcss67453 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:58 -!- xFleury has quit [Client Quit] 23:43:07 -!- darktwinge has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:35 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2450-ga447c6a: Handle setting absurd recite durations in wizmode more gracefully. 10(52 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a447c6a39a01 23:44:06 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2446-g1848915 (34) 23:44:51 ...wow, way to be on the ball, CLAN. 23:45:42 -!- White_Rider has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:45:42 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:46:03 -!- lainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:46:03 -!- Nicksvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:47:49 -!- six40sword has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:50:36 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 23:54:46 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:11 -!- Staplefun has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:56:13 -!- six40sword has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:58:31 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:59:08 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2450-ga447c6a (34)