00:04:46 -!- Toad___ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:05:42 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2283-g4fcd4fc (34) 00:07:53 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:26 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:11:45 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:11:55 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:30 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2283-g4fcd4fc (34) 00:26:04 Bumblechubs (L21 VpSk) ERROR in 'mon-act.cc' at line 2462: infinite handle_monsters() loop, mons[0 of 38] is very ugly thing zombie (Swamp:2) 00:32:04 Bumblechubs (L21 VpSk) ERROR in 'mon-act.cc' at line 2462: infinite handle_monsters() loop, mons[0 of 23] is baby alligator skeleton (Swamp:2) 00:35:09 -!- NuclearFrisson has quit [Quit: BYE] 00:36:54 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:06 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2283-g4fcd4fc 00:48:21 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:53:21 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:53:26 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:38 Arrhythmia: xom effect idea: 00:53:38 Arrhythmia: returns zombies/skeletons to life 00:58:08 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:55 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:09:40 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:01 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:22 -!- dupo has quit [] 01:16:41 I like it 01:18:06 -!- lainiwa is now known as lainiw 01:18:25 -!- notlainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:26:52 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 01:28:28 -!- platinum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:34:14 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:20 -!- Adeon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:37:49 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:18 fr: yak shaving 01:39:42 lots of good ideas this evening 01:42:36 -!- djinni_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:42:45 -!- mumblet is now known as Guest91865 01:43:45 -!- Thyme has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:45 -!- CreepingCrawled has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:46 -!- st_ has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:46 -!- djinni has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:46 -!- Korps has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:47 -!- marcmagus has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:47 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:48 -!- mumblerit has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:48 -!- dosman711 has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:49 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 01:43:49 -!- Guest91865 is now known as mumblerit 01:44:17 -!- mumblerit is now known as Guest21524 01:44:34 -!- psuedo has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 01:46:21 -!- Oregano has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:48:40 mm, tiles monsterlist looks to be amazingly screwed up right now spectating someone's game 01:54:41 I wonder if that's actually a new bug 01:54:58 It always seemed a bit unreliable... 01:56:20 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:57:02 -!- grathtarg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:57:33 it always was yeah, it just looks even worse now somehow 01:58:17 -!- jaccarmac has quit [Client Quit] 01:58:39 i've not noticed being this bad till recently 01:59:20 I wouldn't know what to put in a more formal bug report but it seems to like picking one monster type from what's on screen and listing almost everything as that 02:00:53 -!- lainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:00:59 yeah 02:01:16 there was a bug up on mantis about it happening with battlesphere. i added a comment to it 02:01:28 rather than open a new report that probably is about the same issue 02:07:14 fyi, if you want to see it, the easiest way to see it is probably to make a bunch of zombies or other permanent minions and wander around a bit 02:09:29 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:13:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:19:45 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:30 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:19 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:04 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:36:22 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:27 simm (L11 DsSk) ASSERT(this) in 'actor.h' at line 34 failed. (Lair:3) 02:40:46 -!- lasserith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:42:29 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:55:11 <|amethyst> !lm simm crash -log 02:55:12 8. simm, XL11 DsSk, T:18869 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/simm/crash-simm-20130707-074026.txt 02:58:47 <|amethyst> the same crash as before: a fineff (spectral weapon damage sharing) causes a dead monster to do damage to a player 03:00:07 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:03:34 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:03:52 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:23:59 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:25:27 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 03:27:43 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:29:57 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:39:41 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46:47 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:19:14 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:25:36 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:23 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:06 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:38:05 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 04:52:05 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:04:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:04:14 -!- rchandra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:28 -!- Banana4Yoou has quit [Client Quit] 05:13:14 -!- ZebTM has quit [Client Quit] 05:19:10 -!- archaeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:24:58 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:26:02 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:34 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:26:55 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:33 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:33 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:31:05 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:11 -!- Guest21524 is now known as mumblerit 05:44:11 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:46:21 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:49:31 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:58:24 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:58:25 -!- fdel has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:01:52 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 06:04:25 -!- Adeon_ is now known as Adeon 06:12:00 -!- dcss99995 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:02 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:54 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:49 -!- smajdalf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:26:50 -!- adityarajbhatt has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:55 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:33:30 -!- jeffrom has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:55:19 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:05:37 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:33 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:13:18 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:19:14 -!- blabber has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:22:51 -!- dagonfive has quit [Client Quit] 07:23:33 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:25:48 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:31:53 -!- adityarajbhatt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 07:32:16 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:43 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:21 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:48:50 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:50:58 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:20 -!- thrash_7 has quit [Quit: thrash_7] 08:02:28 -!- Zermako has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:02:32 -!- Zermak is now known as Zermako 08:04:45 -!- adityarajbhatt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 08:20:01 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:21:38 -!- maahes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:23:51 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:24 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:30:28 -!- rndmh3ro has joined ##crawl-dev 08:30:39 Hi! Anyone wants to help me troubleshoot starting my own crawl-server with dgamelaunch? 08:38:58 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:46:22 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:49:10 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:14 rndmh3ro: do you have a specific problem, or do you want a general guide? also, do you just want DGL or also webtiles? and is this supposed to become a public server or just for personal use? 08:51:32 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 08:51:51 rndmh3ro: there's a somewhat incomplete guide for the full setup, but depending on your needs you may get by with less 08:51:57 ??hosting 08:51:57 hosting[1/1]: Some incomplete documentation at http://dobrazupa.org/setting-up-dgamelaunch-and-webtiles 08:53:14 edlothiol, I followed that guide.. i'm to the point where I cant start the the game with dgamelaunch and telnet into it.. but when I want to register a new user, I can enter the name and then the game crashes without any information why 08:53:41 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:45 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 08:59:14 -!- squimmy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:29 rndmh3ro: hmm, I have no idea about that, you might have to wait for |amethyst 09:01:41 edlothiol, I'll do that, thanks! 09:04:26 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2284-gb0b3ef2: Give Skalds +1 MP, -1 HP 10(20 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b0b3ef27ccfb 09:04:26 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2285-gbba810b: Don't randomly give out innate Gargoyle mutations 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bba810b6768a 09:07:49 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 09:20:37 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:47 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:50 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 09:32:37 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:33:37 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:15 -!- Sheepyness has quit [Client Quit] 09:37:57 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:43:36 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:52:09 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:33 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 10:02:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:02 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 10:05:02 <|amethyst> rndmh3ro: you'll have to check the dgamelaunch debug log (/dgldebug.log) and then look up the message in the dgl source (since they're for the most part quite cryptic) 10:05:55 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:06:13 <|amethyst> rndmh3ro: it might be that permissions on /dgldir/dgamelaunch.db or its containing directory are wrong 10:06:36 |amethyst, thanks, I'll look into it 10:07:58 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:12:42 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 10:14:00 |amethyst, the documentation says. I need to start dgamelaunch with "-f $CONFIGFILE", but then it says it's an invalid option. I also did not find any documentation on what arguments dgamelaunch accepts 10:15:05 <|amethyst> rndmh3ro: docs are in dgamelaunch.8 in the dgamelaunch source (man dgamelaunch.8) 10:15:38 <|amethyst> rndmh3ro: it looks in /etc/dgamelaunch.conf by default, which is also where it installs to 10:16:03 |amethyst, I didn't even think of man 10:16:09 thanks! 10:19:21 -!- Snarwin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:24:00 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:24:16 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:25:23 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:29:31 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:10 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:51 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2286-g72a859c: Adjust rN resist scaling, fix numerous inconsistencies 10(3 hours ago, 4 files, 22+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=72a859c9098a 10:31:51 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2287-gfd1d202: Remove some apparently redundant code 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 24-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fd1d202af01e 10:31:51 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2288-g4c1a2ab: Rename Rings of Life Protection to Rings of Positive Energy 10(2 hours ago, 14 files, 64+ 64-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4c1a2ab0d238 10:31:51 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2289-ga4b5720: Increase damage of monster Bolt of Draining 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a4b57208ae53 10:31:51 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2290-gf910f18: Give draining a status light, proportional to how heavily you are drained 10(6 minutes ago, 4 files, 29+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f910f181bfe1 10:31:51 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2291-gc8ebcb5: Also note draining in the logfile 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c8ebcb53251e 10:35:32 -!- Venerax has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:01 -!- Tamper_ has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:11 |amethyst, so "sqlite3_exec failed" is the problem.. I guess it happens here: "ret = sqlite3_exec(db, qbuf, userexist_callback, 0, &errmsg);" but my C-knowledge is non-existant. what's happening there? 10:41:39 -!- N78291 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:42:29 <|amethyst> definitely some kind of error with the user db then 10:42:33 <|amethyst> perhaps it doesn't exist? 10:43:51 the "dgamelaunch.db" is created everytime I try to create a user 10:45:36 <|amethyst> if you run as root sqlite3 dgamelaunch.db then type .schema (with the leading dot) does it show a CREATE TABLE line? 10:46:16 <|amethyst> looking over it, I think maybe dgamelaunch doesn't create the user db itself 10:46:34 <|amethyst> or, rather, doesn't create the table 10:47:53 there's no table, youre right 10:48:00 empty file 10:48:04 <|amethyst> ah 10:48:07 <|amethyst> two options 10:48:33 <|amethyst> 1. run webtiles (dgl_mode = True must be set in config.py) 10:48:55 <|amethyst> or 2. in sqlite3 dgamelaunch.db run: CREATE TABLE dglusers (id integer primary key, username text, email text, env text, password text, flags integer); 10:49:14 <|amethyst> webtiles is smart enough to create the table if it doesn't exist 10:50:03 okay 10:50:08 the second onbe did the trick, thanks 10:50:21 and it's running! 10:50:30 rndmh3ro the ducker 10:50:32 :) 10:52:21 <|amethyst> I added a note to step 13 10:52:39 <|amethyst> still need to put this on the wiki so other people can edit it 10:52:41 New server in progress? 10:52:43 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:47 -!- Snarwin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:52 -!- dcss71457 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:55:49 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:00:11 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2292-gdd7d5ef: Reduce The Enchantress's EV, increase hp 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd7d5eff7941 11:01:06 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2293-gc390694: Fix a broken Slime entry. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c39069494f09 11:02:02 what's the status on those patches I submitted? 11:03:31 * kilobyte hates using the words "positive/negative energy" -- that's a pure D&Dism. 11:04:19 well, better than "life protection" at least (and it is good to be consistent with multiple items using the same term) 11:04:22 do you have another suggestion? 11:04:48 it's better than "life protection", yeah 11:05:04 "life force protection"? 11:05:09 I remember when I was new I actually wondered if it worked a bit like lifesaving 11:05:12 "resist necromancy"? 11:05:14 And then I realized it was just bad 11:05:14 "resist draining"? 11:05:35 Well, it resists more than just draining 11:05:58 Also pain and torment and such 11:06:04 <|amethyst> and I don't know if I'd call "natural" things like shadow dragon breath necromancy 11:06:05 all hostile necromantic effects, I think 11:06:14 Well, it doesn't resist miasma 11:06:19 Which is a hostile necromancy 11:06:27 right 11:06:36 yeah "necromancy" seems completely wrong 11:06:46 rZombie :P 11:06:47 probably should give some resistance, even if relatively minor 11:06:49 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:03 <|amethyst> while, yes, the names are a bit of a D&D ripoff, so is the concept in general 11:07:05 Well, miasma isn't negative energy so much as stuff that rots 11:07:23 DracoOmega: rZombie is, depending on the game's age setting, called either "shotgun" or "axe" :) 11:07:24 rN DID used to give resistance to miasma, but I don't think that's really that sensible 11:07:56 |amethyst: Can the concept of dark powers draining life from things really be traced back exclusively to DnD? 11:08:05 I am pretty sure that's a far older trope 11:08:55 <|amethyst> I guess that's true 11:09:28 I'm quite sure at least the names "positive/negative energy" are a D&Dism, though 11:09:29 <|amethyst> And I guess since it no longer drains levels... 11:09:39 kilobyte: Possibly, sure 11:10:07 let's ask dpeg if he hates D&D or Tolkien more :p 11:10:12 Haha 11:10:29 (I think dpeg is no longer the official project leader after he resigned, but still...) 11:11:42 * kilobyte ponders adding a "dwarven deathmask" helmet with {AC+lots rF++} just to spite dpeg :p 11:12:04 <|amethyst> but he is our resident philosopher 11:14:13 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:08 <|amethyst> Ignoring the D&D thing, the resistance rings are all inconsistently-named 11:16:51 <|amethyst> protection from fire, protection from cold, poison resistance, positive energy 11:17:11 I dislike that they're different from robe egos, too 11:17:17 Makes searching somewhat more annoying 11:17:30 Should just be 'fire resistance', etc. 11:17:36 <|amethyst> I can kind of understand rP being different from the others, since it's one level 11:17:52 Well, a robe of fire resistance and a ring of protection from fire give the same bonus 11:18:06 But show up under different search terms 11:18:20 also positive energy does not sound likea resistance 11:18:29 ontoclasm: yeah 11:18:49 <|amethyst> "ring of positive energy" sounds like a counterpart to ring of fire 11:18:54 shadow resistance 11:18:59 |amethyst: +1 11:19:10 ontoclasm: death to foobands! 11:19:15 |amethyst: Still better than what it used to be 11:19:20 <|amethyst> nether resistance! 11:19:23 |amethyst: Though I'm certainly open to some further improvement 11:19:27 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: oh, I'm not disputing that at all 11:19:50 actually, nether is better than what we have currently (even if still terrible) 11:20:10 <|amethyst> ring of protection from jimmy-rustling 11:23:00 ring of protection from ennui 11:23:46 'The deep elf nihilist reads philosophy at you. You feel jaded.' 11:24:06 <|amethyst> Your scales sartre taking on a dull meaningless colour. 11:24:35 http://thebubble.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/clap.gif 11:25:07 'The angel of Zin recites the law of Zin to you. A red film seems to cover your vision as you go berserk!" 11:25:49 <|amethyst> that sounds a bit out of flavour 11:25:59 tome has solipsists in it, so clearly we need kantians somewhere 11:26:10 you mean, preachers don't make you angry? 11:27:03 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 11:27:10 old recite made some sense :p Especially putting stuff to sleep and making them berserk. 11:27:32 kilobyte: new unique: fedora-wearing atheist. super popular on reddit 11:28:17 <|amethyst> Eronarn: I think fedora-wearing atheists would come across as too much of a self-insert 11:28:57 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:29:42 i for one haven't been a fedora wearing atheist for at least five years now! 11:30:00 <|amethyst> I haven't for at least five hours 11:30:06 <|amethyst> because I took my hat off 11:30:07 Haha 11:30:10 there's no monster matching a feature other than animated tree, right? (Feature mimics use a different hack) 11:30:20 can't place dummy monster: "animated tree" 11:30:20 <|amethyst> %??animated tree 11:30:44 'a' different hack (just one) 11:32:51 lightning spire (11{) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 13/3 | 11non-living, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 28 | Sp: b.electricity (3d6) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 11:32:51 <|amethyst> %??lightning spire 11:33:08 statues 11:33:42 <|amethyst> (not that { is a feature, but it is an item in some codesets) 11:33:46 <|amethyst> s/code/char/ 11:34:02 If that counts, 11:34:04 death cob (08%) | Spd: 25 | HD: 10 | HP: 49-83 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 20 | 07undead, 10doors, evil | Res: 06magic(40), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1016 | Sz: tiny | Int: normal. 11:34:04 %??death cob 11:34:06 it's the character for misc items i believe 11:34:13 runes in particular 11:34:15 er 11:34:17 it was 11:34:21 Runes were }, not {. 11:34:25 until runes were changed 11:34:27 oh 11:35:04 move beasts to Y, spires to I 11:35:06 problem solved 11:35:19 <|amethyst> the orb is { in ascii though 11:35:32 orbs should be 0 :( 11:35:40 <|amethyst> Eronarn: 0 is clouds 11:35:47 that is so wrong i don't even know where to start 11:36:30 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:28 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2294-g1d46104: Increase the plus on lightning scales a bit more. 10(19 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d46104da4b3 11:40:28 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2295-gfacd4dc: Fix dryads masquerading as merfolk. 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 13+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=facd4dceb1d1 11:40:28 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2296-gec80018: Let the tree form and statues follow feature glyphs. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ec8001807cbb 11:41:22 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 11:43:07 <|amethyst> what about 'E' for dryads? 11:43:17 <|amethyst> or is that what you meant rather than 'e'? 11:43:21 Well, all Es are non-living 11:43:27 Presently, at least 11:43:36 But all Rs WERE demons... 11:43:53 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: djinn 11:44:01 |amethyst: 'Were' still applies! 11:44:03 <|amethyst> of course those are /* FIXME */ 11:44:04 <|amethyst> :0 11:44:25 <|amethyst> s/0/)/ 11:44:51 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:54 <|amethyst> I think putting them on the same glyph as water nymphs makes sense, but I can see why one wouldn't want that to be the same glyph as merfolk 11:45:57 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:03 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 11:47:04 it'd be a bit weird to have djinn and efreet on different glyphs 11:47:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:47:43 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:47:51 also: A holy/undead, h living/demonic, xX demonic/undead/unliving, etc 11:48:57 kilobyte: I am not objecting to mixed holiness on one glyph in general. But at least in those cases there is a very definite thematic connection between the holy and undead As or the fact that even the demonic hogs are still h, etc. 11:49:29 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: djinn and efreet have a definite thematic connection too 11:49:35 At least to me, E seems more like 'ball of elemental stuff' and dryads are definitely humanoid, have flesh, leave corpses, speak, etc. 11:49:41 |amethyst: I'm not objecting to that either! 11:49:57 sure; dryads are still more spirits than merfolk though (especially because of no connection to water) 11:50:11 <|amethyst> 'p' ? 11:50:17 DracoOmega: you mean, gnomes shouldn't be on E ?!? 11:50:36 all 'p' are ghostlies 11:50:49 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:52 damn mythologies and their inability to agree what "spirit" means :p 11:51:12 kilobyte: Well, I wasn't implying they were merfolk. Just that the glyph could mean more than JUST merfolk. But no matter. 11:51:13 <|amethyst> oh, right, even player illusions are insubstantial 11:52:03 DracoOmega: there is a practical problem, though: people will think they should be kept out of water. Water gives you an advantage vs most monsters. 11:52:26 I suppose that's arguable, but I don't plan to argue it :) 11:52:49 <|amethyst> we need more letters 11:52:50 'R' has theme issues, I agree, but no practical ones 11:52:57 <|amethyst> in ascii, that is 11:52:58 some suggestions would be nice 11:53:28 Well, there are at least a few glyphs that could be merged together, I expect. But I am not sure what the freed up ones would be used for. 11:53:32 Like, bees could probably go in y 11:53:37 <|amethyst> move nymphs to 'n' and corporeal undead to another letter 11:53:58 'k'orporeal undead? :P 11:54:15 <|amethyst> yeah, merging some of the insect classes would make sense 11:54:40 n for nymph seems non-great if there's only going to be nymphs and dryads there, though 11:55:02 http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/07/05/1225222/man-campaigns-for-addition-of-th-key-to-keyboard 11:55:06 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:55:08 Incidentally, are we allowed to use extended ascii characteres? 11:55:32 (proposing some random invention rather than �) 11:55:32 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: 'extended ascii'? 11:55:33 i for small insectoids, I for big ones 11:55:51 s for nature spirits 11:55:53 Perhaps I am using the wrong terminology 11:55:55 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: can use unicode in overrides but not for the default glyph, which is a char 11:56:04 FR: � for unborns (ghostly qwarves) 11:56:22 kilobyte: null 11:56:24 |amethyst: But I meant the ones over 127 11:56:46 ∅ 11:56:49 More specifically a few greek things in this case, I guess 11:56:52 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I suspect that would cause problems since it wouldn't ve valid UTF-8 11:56:54 |amethyst: tree form got a non-ASCII default glyph 16 minutes ago 11:56:56 <|amethyst> s/ve/be/ 11:57:02 <|amethyst> kilobyte: "default" 11:57:09 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it's still 7 in mon-data.h 11:57:47 <|amethyst> I guess I meant basechar, not glyph 11:57:51 trees to 9, gargoyles to I, dryads 7 11:58:27 the entry from mon-data.h is not used for anything (well, mon_glyph += 7 {�}) 11:58:41 pilcrow trees are the best 11:59:22 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:43 that suggestion was serious btw, gargoyles and beasts make reasonable sense together 12:01:21 what the heck is an ice beast? 12:01:45 a Y obviously! 12:01:49 <|amethyst> A terrible creature, formed of snow and crystalline ice. 12:01:52 large quadruped 12:01:53 especially the notion that it's made entirely of ice, but yet "natural" rather than unliving 12:01:58 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: with firsts 12:02:04 <|amethyst> s/irst/ist/ 12:02:31 MarvinPA: your idea kind of makes sense 12:02:58 <|amethyst> yeah, ice beast on Y makes perfect sense to me 12:03:13 <|amethyst> or U but I guess then it's too close to polar bears 12:03:26 ice beast on Y makes sense 12:03:28 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:33 as for what they are, i see it kind of like lava orcs 12:03:35 <|amethyst> I suppose ice beasts are supposed to be carnivores? 12:03:55 <|amethyst> since they can butcher with they claw fists 12:04:05 they are natural creatures, but altered by magic so that their flesh (despite being differentiated into organs) is composed of something other than meat 12:04:12 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:04:22 i guess "fists" in the player form is just to make it clear that they don't cut hydra heads or something 12:04:37 in contrast to elementals or animated statues, where they take on animate shapes, but don't have a real metabolism 12:05:01 <|amethyst> Eronarn: so what would a clockwork golem be? 12:05:19 <|amethyst> Eronarn: since they have "organs" in a sense 12:06:05 <|amethyst> I would think MH_NATURAL is a matter of having a "life force" that isn't "demonic" or "angelic" (or "plant") 12:06:39 |amethyst: a sufficiently complex one could be considered to be both natural and non-living, i suppose (e.g., if it had a blood-like fluid, some kind of metabolism, ...) 12:06:49 <|amethyst> If you prick me, do I not... leak? 12:07:12 |amethyst: are clockworkdemons demonic or unliving? :p 12:07:18 just a big clockwork robot is a machine, but if it's a self-healing machine that needs food and can have its metabolism affected by things like poisons? 12:07:30 <|amethyst> kilobyte: clockwork angels are a Rush album? 12:07:31 my current theory is that ice beasts are just a blob of ice with fists and legs 12:07:53 evilmike: i like to think of them as large quadruped carnivores that regrettably have been given a crushing attack by mistake 12:08:10 they should have an icicle bite instead 12:08:15 sabretoothed ice beast 12:08:29 all Y are herbivores currently 12:08:41 even hellephants? 12:08:42 That doesn't sound like a defining feature 12:08:47 <|amethyst> kilobyte: yeah, that's why I mentioned U 12:09:06 -!- rndmh3ro has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:09:19 <|amethyst> (speaking of which, why do bears get their own glyph?) 12:09:39 also death yaks aren't herbivores 12:09:46 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:09:51 ice beast tile is a bear 12:09:54 <|amethyst> ah 12:09:59 <|amethyst> "Its little red eyes 12:10:00 <|amethyst> gleam with hunger for living flesh." 12:10:00 U for ungulates imo 12:10:04 Y were all pack animals until the new purple one 12:10:18 polar bear tile is a tapir 12:10:27 then clearly the tapir tile is an ice beast 12:12:58 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 12:14:59 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2296-gec80018 (34) 12:17:14 that tapir is also quite dark grey, far darker than real polar bear images on Wikipedia 12:17:57 thought: make ice beasts as weird as sky beasts 12:17:59 ??sky beast 12:17:59 sky beast[1/2]: Similar to an {ice beast}, only it flies, is made of clouds and tortured flesh, leaves a mutagenic corpse and fades in and out of visibility at random. Appears at the same depths as ice beasts, but has less AC and is not immune to poison. 12:18:00 ??sky beast[2] 12:18:01 sky beast[2/2]: http://www.creaturespot.com/main/2010/11/12/cephalophant-monster.html 12:20:05 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:21:35 -!- cheibrodos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:22:30 i love sky beast[1] 12:23:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:19 "similar to a sky beast, except completely different in every way" 12:25:49 I dont think ice beast could go on Y, white Y is apis isn't it? 12:27:06 I wouldn't want them to be coloured etc_foo either, it's kind of annoying when normal/common monsters are shiny 12:27:23 lightblue Y ? 12:27:31 mine are ice Y with sky beasts mutagenic Y, but yes lots of blues and cyans are free 12:27:43 i think mine are on E 12:27:57 fr make marvinrc the mainline 12:29:10 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:30:02 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 12:33:09 fr hippos 12:33:09 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:33:26 or maybe moose 12:33:29 moose are terrifying 12:36:19 emu 12:36:39 emu herds in forest 12:36:44 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 12:37:46 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:38:17 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:59 cassowary 12:39:18 Moose are pretty peaceable, really 12:39:27 DracoOmega: so are yaks 12:39:30 Then again, so are sheep and they've killed people here 12:39:53 "A m��se once bit my sister" 12:40:04 apparently being in the dungeon makes even the cuddliest of animals into a stone cold killer 12:40:07 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:50 And even angels and demons will join forces to kill you, above all else 12:41:16 Maybe you swallowed a ring of conflict before entering the dungeon 12:41:17 Moose are kind of scary imo, because they tend to walk in front of cars 12:41:30 Well, that's more the moose being foolish than aggressive 12:41:31 But yes 12:42:43 did you know: moose are positioned tall enough that they are far more likely to kill you because your car's grill won't hit into the body, but just fracture the legs, and it'll be your windshield that (fails to) stops the moose 12:42:59 -!- rndmh3ro has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:52 Yes, I am quite aware 12:44:36 Moose are a common problem around here in that regard 12:45:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:45:41 anyone wants to quickly test my crawl-server? 12:46:43 -!- Snarwin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:16 -!- thrash_7 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:24 the primary problem affecting driving in boston is drivers in boston 12:50:43 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:32 also those damn pedestrians 12:53:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:45 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:01:54 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:14 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:35 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs.html 13:05:42 |amethyst: cool 13:06:25 this will please HangedMan 13:07:33 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:07:42 so many red and yellow @s 13:07:49 <|amethyst> script is at http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs 13:08:37 brown @ is open for dryads 13:09:05 st_: tell him that one of the cells is slightly incorrect and he'll probably go crazy 13:09:11 it'd probably be good to do Aa rather than A-Za-z 13:09:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:10:23 <|amethyst> Eronarn: mon-data.h separates them (but has them in the opposite order) 13:10:26 vampire bat -> magenta? 13:10:35 might as well 13:10:46 same for felids, probably, although magenta cats would be weird 13:10:48 I'd prefer something more natural looking though 13:11:00 brown would make the most sense I think 13:11:19 felid to lightred, remove hell hogs 13:11:40 <|amethyst> felid on blue or lightblue 13:13:07 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:16:59 <|amethyst> hm 13:17:04 <|amethyst> this version might be mroe readable 13:17:07 <|amethyst> s/mroe/more/ 13:17:08 <|amethyst> sec 13:17:53 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs-narrow.html 13:20:40 less-pronounced in-glyph dividers, or more pronounced between different glyphs would be nice, but that's already a good deal better than the previous version 13:21:01 it's only divided empty sections which are misleading 13:21:13 (it appears a glyph/colour pair is not taken) 13:23:33 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:24:20 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:24:20 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:36 -!- Snarwin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:38 combine n and L? 13:26:50 or L and something else undeady 13:27:54 or put Ls on Z 13:31:16 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:31:33 -!- dcss74368 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:31:46 |amethyst: Wow, that's great. I've wanted something like that a few times, actually 13:34:05 ontoclasm: Ls on Z seems fairly bad, since Ls are really scary and Zs are not 13:34:06 <|amethyst> kilobyte: some slight improvements 13:34:20 -!- faygzee is now known as trojan21665 13:34:39 zombies could certainly be on the same glyph (brown small zombies yellow large zombies, etc) 13:34:50 then n -> z 13:35:26 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:35 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:35:36 W/p also isn't all that distinct 13:35:59 your "dark" colours are extremely bright in that table, which makes them hard to distinguish 13:37:16 like, 0055FF darkblue -- while usually it's 0000AA, or even 000080 13:37:58 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:15 0052FF actually (not that this differs much) 13:38:57 <|amethyst> kilobyte: just changed to the correct webtiles glyph mode colours 13:39:20 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I was looking in the main style.css but should have taken the version from game_data 13:39:50 204a87 dark blue? Now that's... unconventional. 13:40:16 i'm not sure where the current webtiles color set came from 13:40:20 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:40:32 (nitpicking more is arguing about the bike shed's colour exact shade, though) 13:41:02 i propose the bikeshed be painted pantone #2470 13:41:55 ontoclasm: <3 13:41:59 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:12 I didn't think pantone applied to [s]RGB 13:43:34 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:22 -!- trojan21665 has quit [Changing host] 13:47:33 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:14 -!- trojan21665 has quit [] 13:51:42 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:54:56 -!- Wolfram has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:54:59 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:01 notable omission: we currently have no uniqe insects 13:55:07 sad times 13:55:17 -!- LogicNinja has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:55:37 So something seems to be very wrong with newdraining and spell success 13:56:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 13:58:00 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:32 -!- trojan21665 has quit [Client Quit] 13:59:06 SwissStopwatch: What do you mean? 14:00:03 it seems to hit success -way- harder than the skill drain would indicate for some reason 14:00:29 Hmmm... I'll take a look 14:00:31 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:18 Haven't tested it that thoroughly myself yet but things don't quite seem to line up with where someone in chan said his success rate was while drained and what it should be given those numbers 14:01:44 -!- trojan21665 has quit [Changing host] 14:01:48 Wow, you're right 14:02:14 I went from charms 14 to 12.5, yet haste fail went from like 2% to 96% 14:02:39 I actually have a suspicion what the problem is, though.... 14:02:47 so at least this isn't some obscure problem where the fail rate is actually much higher than is reported in the spell list? 14:03:07 I haven't even checked for that either honestly 14:03:34 but yeah, I saw this happen with a friend last night but didn't think to check his numbers because I was busy laughing at how much trouble he was in 14:03:39 well it's not worth checking for that when the fail rate listed is 90-something (and shouldn't be) is it? 14:04:00 possibly not! 14:04:14 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 14:04:35 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:26 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: what's the 100 in player::skill 14:05:34 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: shouldn't that be scale instead? 14:05:52 No, that shouldn't be scale 14:05:57 The issue is in the proportional term below it 14:06:08 Which I think actually shouldn't be multiplied by scale at all 14:06:22 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: what about the non-proportional one? 14:06:25 But rather just 10 14:06:48 Well, the way it works is that 100 points of draining equals 1 level of skill loss 14:07:00 + ~3.3% 14:07:48 It reports the correct numbers at scale 10 (which is what the skill menu uses), but the proportional term gets much stronger at higher scales, which isn't supposed to happen at all 14:07:49 DracoOmega: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:07:49 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: so shouldn't it use scale then? 14:08:00 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: ohh 14:08:06 <|amethyst> aha 14:08:21 It's multiplying by level down there, which is ALREADY scaled 14:09:25 <|amethyst> what's the / 300 ? 14:09:49 -!- trojan21664 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:09:56 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:10:31 So each 100 points of draining gives a 3.3% reduction to the total skill's value 14:10:34 In addition to the flat one 14:12:03 Okay, I am fairly sure this is correct, looking at the spell success numbers now 14:13:21 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:13:23 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: shouldn't 3.3% reduction be / 3000 ? 14:14:09 <|amethyst> if drain is 100 (and the extra scale removed) that term would be - level/3 14:15:38 Hmmm... I just replaced scale with 10, since that's what the skill menu was using, but I guess there's no point in that term, and I could just make the denominator 30 instead 14:16:57 <|amethyst> - (you.attribute[ATTR_XP_DRAIN] * level / 30) 14:17:07 Yes 14:17:17 <|amethyst> ah, and then it's all divided by 100 14:17:27 <|amethyst> yeah 14:17:46 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:18:03 -!- archaeo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:18:29 <|amethyst> so ( (level * 100) - (drain * scale) - (drain * level / 30) ) / 100 14:18:35 <|amethyst> if level = scale*lev we have 14:19:17 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:19:26 -!- trojan21665 has quit [] 14:19:33 <|amethyst> err 14:19:40 <|amethyst> if level = scale*lev and drain = 100 * dr we have 14:19:54 -!- trojan21665 has quit [Changing host] 14:20:22 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 14:20:42 <|amethyst> scale * lev * 100 - (100 * dr * scale) - (100 * dr * scale * lev / 30) / 100 = scale * ( lev - dr - (dr * lev)/30 ) 14:20:46 <|amethyst> which sounds right 14:20:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:34 <|amethyst> kind of hard to read though :( 14:21:56 Haha, so is half my formula superfluous? 14:21:56 <|amethyst> could you just use floating point for the drain calculation? 14:22:18 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: no, because what I wrote assumes mathematical identities that aren't true for integer math 14:22:23 Probably no reason why not, I guess. This is just the form that the formula ended up in after various incremental tweaks 14:22:23 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: but if you use floats... 14:24:01 <|amethyst> double adjlev = max(0.0, level - 0.01 * you.attribute[ATTR_XP_DRAIN] * (scale + level/30.0)) 14:24:45 <|amethyst> then level = (int) adjlev 14:26:03 Is there a reason for a seperate double that is then cast, as opposed to just 'level = (int) '? 14:26:15 <|amethyst> oh, I guess not 14:27:38 Is easier to read than what I had, at any rate 14:27:58 -!- Gandroid has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 14:28:05 Actually, do you need the (int) at all if you're putting it into an int? Isn't that implied? 14:28:14 <|amethyst> I guess (you.attribute[ATTR_XP_DRAIN]/100.0) might be easier to read than 0.01 * you.attribute[ATTR_XP_DRAIN] 14:28:31 <|amethyst> you don't need it but I think it makes it more clear to the reader 14:28:38 Yeah 14:28:41 <|amethyst> and some compilers complain with some flags 14:28:51 Ah 14:29:07 <|amethyst> there are all kinds of warning about such conversions with gcc 4.1.2 for example 14:29:11 <|amethyst> s/ing/ings/ 14:29:21 <|amethyst> in crawl I mean 14:29:36 Ah 14:29:39 maud 14:30:37 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30:59 I guess this explains how that guy on Tavern got drained to his main spell having a 50% fail rate by a single orange rat or whatnot 14:31:02 -!- rndmh3ro has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:31:13 I assumed some sort of hilarious extended trainwreck 14:33:00 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: btw, just noticed that if you have both ash-raised and drained skills, the skill menu says only "Skills enhanced by the power of Ashenzari are in blue." but doesn't mention magenta 14:33:15 <|amethyst> but I guess there's only so much stuff that can fit in the legend 14:33:15 Oh 14:33:35 Well, tiles has tons of room, but is console cramped in that regard? 14:33:47 <|amethyst> also, switching to "normal" and back to "changed" with _ _ changes what is displayed in the legend 14:33:50 <|amethyst> that might be intentional 14:34:48 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: two lines in console, which could maybe become three if we removed a blank 14:34:54 |amethyst: something like "[in blue]Ashenzari enhanced |[in purple] drained" 14:34:56 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:12 a full english sentence isn't really needed 14:35:14 Hmmm... something seems wrong again when I replaced the formula with the simplified one of yours 14:35:54 Again affecting spell success by a different amount than undrained skills of the same level do 14:36:00 <|amethyst> hm 14:36:10 -!- johntheursidae has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:42 <|amethyst> set up a test rig of some kind to call it with various scales? 14:37:59 -!- Snarwin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:38:25 I think the scale term is in the wrong place 14:38:27 Now that I look closely 14:38:43 <|amethyst> what do you have currently? 14:38:58 level = (int) max(0.0, level - you.attribute[ATTR_XP_DRAIN] / 100.0 * (scale + level/30.0)); 14:39:16 Which is, I think, what you said 14:39:17 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:39:21 <|amethyst> yeah, "scale" there is supposed to mean "one skill level" 14:40:24 What? 14:41:11 <|amethyst> 100 points of draining is supposed to subtract one skill level plus 3.3% of your original level, right? 14:41:27 -!- Vbits has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:41:29 Yes 14:42:43 <|amethyst> And scale is what level has been multiplied by 14:42:58 <|amethyst> so decreasing "level" by "scale" means subtracting one level 14:43:10 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:14 <|amethyst> and level/30.0 is the 3.3% 14:43:28 I think I might have misread SOMETHING again, anyway 14:43:41 But I will try testing it at different scales and see if it's consistant, anyway 14:43:45 * SamB is confused as to why scale is not simply 1 14:44:01 <|amethyst> SamB: because it returns an int not a float 14:44:07 -!- Gmork has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:44:14 <|amethyst> SamB: skill "fuzzing" is the real reason 14:44:29 <|amethyst> SamB: so that 2.5 skill can actually mean 2.5 and not 2 14:44:29 well then shouldn't scale be multiplying the level/30.0 bit too ? 14:44:39 <|amethyst> SamB: level has already been mutliplied by scale 14:44:55 <|amethyst> s/tlip/ltip/ 14:45:22 ??spiny 14:45:22 spiny[1/1]: Mutation, has a chance of doing (xd6 (where x is mutation level) - enemy AC - player EVP) damage to enemies in melee combat when their attack is not blocked by the player. Subject to monster EV. 14:45:32 <|amethyst> SamB: that's (most of) the problem with the code as it currently stands: it is multiplied by scale a second time 14:45:51 Is the 'EVP' here the number you get from the encumbrance formula? 14:46:11 <|amethyst> SamB: but a misplaced decimal point made it happen to work for the common case of scale = 10 14:46:40 <|amethyst> SamB: spell failure, however, uses a scale of 200 14:46:43 |amethyst: Oops, I think I know what the issue is! 14:46:49 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: oh? 14:46:54 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:47:00 |amethyst: I forgot it was also lowering spellcasting, and not just the spell's school >.> 14:47:07 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: aha 14:47:08 Accounting for why success was much lower than expected 14:47:10 elliott: quick, come up with a typesystem to keep us from such mistakes 14:47:29 <|amethyst> SamB: a rational class would be enough :) 14:47:43 <|amethyst> SamB: instead of using fixed-point ints all the time 14:47:56 <|amethyst> C++'s type system is good enough :) 14:48:00 |amethyst: I was thinking we could have units in the types ;-P 14:48:12 <|amethyst> but we're writing C in a lot of places 14:48:38 <|amethyst> SamB: can do that in C++ too, though C++11 makes it much better with user-defined literals 14:48:50 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:49:21 yes but who but a functional programmer would be crazy enough to try 14:49:29 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2297-g61f4f5f: Fix draining skill reduction formula 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=61f4f5ff78f7 14:49:29 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2298-g6a29ee0: Simplify skill draining formula (|amethyst) 10(81 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6a29ee034430 14:49:31 <|amethyst> skill = 200_skp 14:49:52 Probably should rebuild now, to save people becoming involuntarily spellless if they get hit by any draining :P 14:50:14 <|amethyst> sec 14:50:29 Checking something over first? 14:51:06 <|amethyst> No, something completely inconsequential 14:51:13 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2299-gdd84641: Fix formatting. 10(30 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd84641bdd2b 14:51:15 Oh, sure 14:51:47 Haha. Because that affects the build that goes on the servers to such a large degree :P 14:51:49 the reason we don't have C++11 yet is OS X, but it's not like we have working OS X builds currently anyway :p 14:52:08 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: as I said, inconsequential 14:52:09 i think there's a bug in specifying randarts with an explicit brand in vault syntax 14:52:11 |amethyst: Shall I trigger now, or was that it? 14:52:20 kilobyte: what are we waiting for? 14:52:29 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: but it does make it more likely the servers will be at the same version 14:52:34 with so many servers, it would be nice to have a way to check which server runs what version 14:52:53 <|amethyst> kilobyte: what version of gcc would we need to require as a minimum 14:52:54 someone to port Apple's GCC wrapper to a recent version of GCC? 14:53:10 <|amethyst> kilobyte: not that Chei should hold things up, but it is stuck with 4.1 14:53:26 but monster! 14:53:42 4.7 was the first GCC with user defined literals IIRC 14:53:57 SamB: another problem are their system headers: they drop compat nearly instantly 14:54:32 oh, right, the libc 14:54:44 <|amethyst> buppy: well, we can live without those 14:54:46 wait we need a recent libc for C++11? 14:54:59 which means that if we moved to clang on OS X, we'd drop almost any past versions as clang only very recently got usable enough to build Crawl, which means very recent XCode 14:55:06 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:24 notice how I never even mentioned clang 14:55:29 SamB: I think --std==c++0x should be enough 14:55:34 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:56:06 I think libstdc++ is more likely to be an issue? 14:56:30 I mean, if trying to use GCC 14:56:38 SamB: that's an easier way than getting a custom toolchain; your idea might be better though for old OS Xes 14:56:59 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:57:08 libstdc++ can be linked statically 14:57:38 <|amethyst> If a custom toolchain is needed to build the official mac releases, I think that's not unacceptible 14:58:06 <|amethyst> people building with the vendor toolchain can be warned that their executable will be restricted in what OS versions it supports 14:58:24 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2299-gdd84641 (34) 14:58:36 how bad would it be to have separate builds for PPC and x86? 14:59:01 SamB: this doesn't give us anything as you need to do PPC builds anyway 14:59:21 and versions of XCode which can do them can build x86 which works everywhere 14:59:47 <|amethyst> but I thought versions of XCode that can do those have ancient compilers? 14:59:48 yes, but non-Apple versions of GCC don't have that auto-lipo thing 15:00:00 ah 15:00:15 well, in worst cases we can have separate download or a shell script 15:00:17 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:05 actually I'm not even sure it's all that simple to install non-apple GCC targetting both powerpc and i386 15:01:17 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2299-gdd84641 (34) 15:01:33 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: �� (xchat 2.4.5 �� )] 15:01:40 * kilobyte once looked into having an �ber-fat binary on Linux (for unxz), with support for a crapload of arches, but sadly, while writing such code is easy, ELF header stops the fun :p 15:01:50 kilobyte: it actually wouldn't be all that hard to lipo ourselves if we could install both compilers on the same system 15:01:52 SamB: probably yeah 15:02:12 no idea about Mac fat binaries :( 15:02:22 they're very simple really 15:03:25 and even if they weren't, lipo isn't that hard to use 15:03:45 -!- ctair has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 15:04:35 -!- Elkan has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:06:37 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:10:27 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:28 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:13 -!- Snarwin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:21 -!- trojan21665 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:18:37 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:19:19 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:20:01 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:20:42 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:21:24 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:21:57 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:22:05 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:22:46 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:23:25 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:24:03 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:24:44 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:25:04 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:26:19 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 15:28:16 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31:03 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33:59 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 15:34:36 Hmmm... 78291 just ran into a chimera skeleton 15:34:55 I wonder if it would even have any attacks? 15:37:53 <|amethyst> heh 15:38:00 <|amethyst> M_NO_GEN_DERIVED 15:39:01 I think the issue may be that pick_random_zombie() does not respect this flag 15:39:32 Hmmm... no. Since the code for Crypt that uses it doesn't make simulacra 15:39:40 And I have definitely seen shapeshifter simulacra, too 15:40:57 <|amethyst> neither chimeras nor shapeshifters have that flag 15:41:19 Well, shapeshifters are also M_NO_ZOMBIE 15:41:39 I suppose that doesn't affect simulacra, though 15:41:41 <|amethyst> I thought M_NO_ZOMBIE no longer meant "no simulacra/spectral things" 15:41:54 However, I have seen ugly thing zombies in Crypt, too 15:42:01 And they ARE M_NO_GEN_DERIVED 15:42:04 <|amethyst> hm 15:42:34 <|amethyst> that gets checked by zombie_picker:veto 15:42:53 But probably not by pick_random_zombie() 15:42:58 Which Crypt uses 15:43:04 <|amethyst> oh, directly? 15:43:04 (And also Yred wrath, I think) 15:43:17 Yes, for selecting zombies out of its normal depth range 15:43:53 So that there's a bit more variety, and you can get some of the more interesting zombies 15:44:24 <|amethyst> where's this code? 15:44:31 <|amethyst> maybe it can be made to use a zombie_picker? 15:44:58 <|amethyst> pick_monster takes that in addition to a place 15:45:02 Well, pick_random_zombie() wasn't something I wrote. It already existed and was for at least one or two things. 15:46:37 Zombie selection code in general could use some changes, though 15:46:52 <|amethyst> let's see, it's used by: ghostly flame, crypt _place_assorted_zombies, and yred wrath 15:46:58 Oh, just that? 15:47:09 Okay, I guess it was just Yred wrath before me, then :P 15:47:33 -!- thrash_7 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:47:40 <|amethyst> I guess simplest would be to use the zombie_picker there 15:48:24 <|amethyst> currently it's used in pick_local_zombifiable_monster only 15:49:46 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:50:04 <|amethyst> as for chimeras, besides the flag (which affects only zombie_picker::veto) there's also the issue of death channelling chimeras 15:50:29 -!- trojan21665 has quit [Changing host] 15:50:30 <|amethyst> since they don't produce corpses, the other three derived undead can't be made by the player/monsters 15:50:57 I didn't think death channel made things from stuff that doesn't drop corpses? 15:51:04 <|amethyst> oh, maybe it doesn't 15:51:14 <|amethyst> I haven't used it 15:51:21 -!- santiago has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:51:33 I haven't in a while - I don't remember for sure, but it rings a bell 15:51:39 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:41 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:54 Are there any plans to do anything about how braindead MiBe is for the entire dungeon prior to the Lair? 15:53:08 I think the Axe aoe ability just made it even worse 15:53:30 now you don't even have to tunnel fight every time 15:53:41 (not that tunnel fighting is the best thing ever) 15:53:58 but it is just so faceroll 15:55:29 i don't think anyone is particularly shocked to discover that berserkers are easy early on 15:56:56 For what it's worth, the vast majority of them still die pre-Lair 15:57:08 Even if they obviously do much better than average 15:57:35 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:58:22 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:59:13 vast majority die pre-lair because they're the go-to for brand new players 15:59:26 <|amethyst> that's kind of what they're there for 15:59:30 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:59:35 oh well I guess that makes sense 15:59:48 if they are that easy on purpose 15:59:50 <|amethyst> a combo that can do well for new players without much in the way of tactics 16:00:00 I just thought the whole reason we took MD out was the same thing 16:00:09 They were too straightforward and powerful 16:00:11 <|amethyst> no, MD was because it was too close to Mi and HO 16:00:18 ooooh 16:00:31 <|amethyst> and flavour considerations determined which would get the axe 16:00:34