00:00:20 On the other hand, knowing the stats of the [class] spirit might end up a bit spoilery, though it'd be easy to make monster generate the stats for players using knowledge bots or irc. 00:03:14 qoala: that does sound loads easier to balance ... i don't think the spoileryness is a problem here, i mean you could say it's spoilery knowing how much damage battlesphere will do; but in this case you can make a reasonable guess from the base stats of given weapon classes 00:03:37 It would benefit those who haven't found a good weapon yet 00:04:23 and will probably hurt those using heavier weapons somewhat in the classes with different mindelay ranges over good weapons. 00:04:24 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:05:19 Whips could end up separate from maces, as in the tiles. Or we could keep them together. Unsure if flails should stay with whips though, since their stats are closer to maces. 00:05:27 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:05:41 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2202-g857913d (34) 00:05:53 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2202-g857913d (34) 00:07:15 qoala: i would still try to get evilmike's feedback on this (and other folks), but this seems quite interesting, if this much balancing is needed 00:07:41 i think even with the SW being more durable, you'll still reach a point in the game where it just doesn't last long enough to do anything ... 00:08:03 yeah, definitely need more feedback on the idea, since I only came up with it on the spur of the moment a couple hours ago. 00:08:41 How often is evilmike on? (I haven't been active long enough to get a sense of other people's patterns) 00:08:55 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:11:46 %git :/rune 00:11:47 07SamB * 0.13-a0-2188-g862ac03: Give runes their own default glyph (φ for now) 10(7 hours ago, 5 files, 20+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=862ac03750b9 00:12:32 -!- Brain_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:21:39 qoala: he seems to pop in every few days at least, but maybe he'll respond on that thread too 00:22:03 maybe MarvinPA could comment on this too since i think he playtested a skald lately 00:22:07 qoala: did you !tell him about it already? I forget. 00:22:18 oh right. That would make sense. 00:26:45 !tell evilmike Alternate possibility for SW: rather than a (subpar) clone of your weapon, you get a spirit of the essence of the weapon's class. Axe cleaves, polearm reaches, short blade weak (but your attacks are fast). Only need to balance each spirit rather than a clone that scales with the player's equipment. 00:26:46 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 00:26:56 !tell evilmike Alternate possibility for SW: rather than a (subpar) clone of your weapon, you get a spirit of the essence of the weapon's class. Axe cleaves, polearm reaches, short blade weak (but your attacks are fast). 00:26:57 qoala: OK, I'll let evilmike know. 00:27:28 !tell evilmike Only need to balance each spirit rather than a clone that scales with the player's equipment. 00:27:28 qoala: OK, I'll let evilmike know. 00:27:59 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:37:54 mumra: ya I did use that 00:38:02 -!- doome has quit [] 00:38:12 ok so what build command line are you using? 00:38:28 build command line? 00:38:50 the one included with msysgut 00:38:54 the one included with msysgit 00:40:13 and from what I can tell msysgit does not include that library needed for sound unless it uses minGW 00:40:30 as in the folder 00:41:29 running a wizard mode character right now to test my build out 00:51:21 New branch created: cup-of-charity (1 commit) 00:51:21 03mumra 07[cup-of-charity] * 0.13-a0-2203-g4baedbe: New misc item: "Cup of Charity" 10(79 seconds ago, 26 files, 344+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4baedbe8bf7a 00:51:24 no i mean, what did you type into the command line to build crawl? 00:52:23 ^ feedback on this item appreciated (i ran it by dpeg already and he really liked it) 00:52:47 (it needs a bigger list of effects though) 00:58:12 finally, something to use my all my gold on in games where the shops don't actually have anything good 00:59:06 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:34 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:34 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 01:00:46 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 01:01:24 I like "You are already feeling very charitable" as a failure message. 01:02:06 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:02:36 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 01:02:49 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:03:08 mumra: Not really a criticism, but seems like something that would be in a card 01:03:37 Decks are fairly broken anyways 01:04:26 gammafunk: perhaps, although i don't think the mechanic would work so well in a deck 01:07:06 haven't finished reading, so I'll probably answer my own question in a bit. Can separate cups hold different effects? 01:07:48 yes 01:08:15 the price is based on how many times you used *that* cup (and the effects scale up the more you're paying) 01:08:46 e.g. quad damage is possible for 10k :P 01:09:01 but doesn't yet give the wonderful QUAD DAMAGE MESSAGES? 01:09:23 ??quad damage 01:09:23 quad damage[1/6]: QUAD DAMAGE! (as in proper Quakes, ie, any but Q3 and QLive) 01:09:51 SamB: I got a Phi in Vaults:5 01:10:05 -!- valrus has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:10:11 SamB: Are you assigning me homework or something? 01:10:12 Did we really not have a you_can_drink function before? >.> 01:10:17 no, alas :) but i was going to apply that status instead if you hit 4x 01:10:27 gammafunk: yes. come up with a better glyph or else 01:10:36 qoala: no, the you_foodless function was being abused with an obscure parameter for cases of "can drink" 01:10:43 ouch 01:10:48 i didn't fix those other cases yet :P 01:10:57 "Solve for Phi to receive the Silver rune of Zot!" 01:11:58 Is there any benefit to having super heal charity over the duration? 01:12:14 Because otherwise, getting a longer duration with higher evo is undesirable for super heal 01:17:19 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:33 qoala: Yeah, but you also get a better heal with higher evo 01:19:01 qoala: hmm, good point (i was thinking of making super-heal be more like super-regen anyway) 01:19:10 but yeah the status acts as a cooldown too 01:19:54 mumra: Could do a bit less heal, but also with regen? Maybe not good to mix up the two though 01:19:57 Yeah, I see the cooldown effect, but perhaps the cooldown could be constant if you don't get continuous benefit. 01:21:09 regen would probably work too, without having to explain too much. 01:21:09 gammafunk: well, i'd like the effects to be in general a bit more creative and unusual, but initially i was just testing things out with a fairly simple to implement couple of cases 01:22:06 qoala: i don't actually think it's a problem if the cooldown is longer at higher evo for no other gain, you already got a good discount ;) 01:22:20 but yeah regen might just work better anyway 01:22:28 and it's less potentially broken ;) 01:22:34 mumra: temporary beneficial mutations :) 01:22:46 gammafunk: ah, nice :) 01:23:09 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:23:28 too bad they wouldn't be that useful, most likely 01:24:17 It'd probably be one from a list, with prices for each. Rather than pure random. Pure random beneficial would have a decent chance of being harmful or mimicking a level 1 spell. At the very least, possibly max ranks in the mut. 01:25:31 Maybe an at-will semi-cblink for the duration? 01:25:51 well, that's just the ctele spell for many people 01:26:20 not necessarily. It'd be better than the existing ctele spell since you wouldn't need to recast after every blink. 01:26:38 But still limited by glow for continuous usage. 01:27:07 well all you're recasting is blink, an L2 spell 01:27:44 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:27:59 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:28:09 No new cTele disappears after any use of it. Unless that got changed again. 01:28:16 the important question 01:28:22 oh, didn't realize that had changed 01:28:24 can the cup give you QUAD DAMAGE 01:28:39 -!- axlexk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:28:43 it can give x4 damage, but not ALL CAPS. YET. 01:28:48 Lightli: yes, for somewhere approaching 10k gold 01:29:01 haha, that's a bit expensive 01:29:10 mumra: how much to get caps 01:29:12 It better give you all caps too 01:29:14 I meanm CAPS 01:29:21 does that cost 100k 01:29:26 haha 01:29:42 that should be thrown in for free 01:29:45 also holy god 10k I have never seen anything in a shop go for even half that much 01:29:56 quad damage is crazy. I had trouble testing the 16x damage vs krakens, because even with a honeycomb wielded I still occasionally killed the tentacle. 01:30:06 wow 01:30:41 lol 01:31:01 You wan't to kill cerebov with a snozzcucumber? It's gonna cost you... 01:31:02 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:08 "well it was a very *sharp* honeycomb" 01:31:11 s/wan't/want/ 01:31:41 YOU CLUMSILY HIT CEREBOV WITH THE HONEYCOMB {BEE-DOOM}! 01:31:53 CEREBOV DIES! 01:32:23 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: six40sword] 01:32:23 wait, 16x damage? 01:32:23 Lightli: the first time you use the cup, the donation is around 10 gold; but the best you can get is like 1.25x damage 01:32:30 oh 01:32:47 so you have to use it a lot for it to give you quad damage 01:33:02 16x damage was from a glitch that quad damage was applied twice to the kraken body if you hit its tentacle. 01:33:07 oh 01:33:13 Lightli: the costs go up reasonably quickly 01:33:31 -!- dcss67044 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:33:38 is there a cap on the cost 01:33:39 I was trying to confirm that the x4 code got called twice, but kept killing the tentacle. Which currently cancels the damage sharing. Is that intended? 01:34:00 -!- dcss80517 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:14 or does it eventually get to the point that you toss it away because it wants more gold than you've seen in all your games combined 01:34:25 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 01:34:56 Lightli: exactly, there is a point beyond which no sane person would ever pay 01:35:13 mumra: there are many insane people who play this game though 01:35:24 exactly, that's what is interesting about this 01:36:05 it's an evocable that you can't use forever 01:36:13 i just need to log purchases over a certain value so i can see what fools i suckered in 01:36:28 If it's enough for quad damage, log it 01:36:34 Getting a few max-rank UC aux muts could be interesting, though frequently risky due to the lost defenses. And even for melee characters, I'm not sure if most would actually want it. 01:36:45 ??quad damage 01:36:46 quad damage[1/6]: QUAD DAMAGE! (as in proper Quakes, ie, any but Q3 and QLive) 01:36:50 ??quad damage [2] 01:36:50 quad damage[2/6]: !lm syllogism sprint uniq=antaeus turn=30902 -tv 01:36:53 ??quad damage [3] 01:36:54 quad damage[3/6]: THE RAT TWITCHES ITS WHISKERS. 01:36:56 ??quad damage [4] 01:36:57 quad damage[4/6]: Due to reckless vandalism by last year's graduating class, the quad will remain closed until further notice. 01:36:59 heh 01:37:26 !lm syllogism sprint uniq=antaeus turn=30902 -tv 01:37:27 1. syllogism, XL18 DEFE, T:30902 (milestone) requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 01:38:04 qoala: i think it's ok to have a few effects that are good for only some builds; you can still pay the price if you want to gamble on the _next_ effect being good for you 01:38:24 joke question: how much gold would it cost to get unnerfed summoning back 01:39:12 haha# 01:39:15 summons cap multiplier 01:39:35 yes 01:40:06 ??sprint 01:40:07 dungeon sprint[1/1]: Sprint is a one-level, accelerated version of crawl. Originally coded by Chapayev. Now there are seven playable maps! 01:40:14 ??sprint map 01:40:15 I don't have a page labeled sprint_map in my learndb. 01:40:21 !lm syllogism sprint uniq=antaeus turn=30902 -tv 01:40:22 1. syllogism, XL18 DEFE, T:30902 (milestone) requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 01:43:34 random thought: Why can't felids Inner Flame themselves? 01:46:16 more random thought: why do felids exist 01:54:17 -!- platinum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:55:42 starspawn tentacle (11w) | Spd: 10 | HD: 22 | HP: 14-29 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Dam: 303(constrict) | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 01:55:42 %?? starspawn tentacle 01:56:05 apparently starspawn tentacles are really squishy. I can now see why I was killing them with HONEYCOMBS. 01:56:33 fr: chalice of memories: siphon incoming xp to it for a while in exchange for ressurecting game mechanics from previous versions of crawl 01:57:32 yeah, HD 22 but like that many HP on average 01:57:39 gammafunk: how much to play a MD? 01:58:11 "You drink from the chalice of memories. You evaporate and reform as a mountain dwarf!" 01:59:14 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: zzz] 02:00:26 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: BRB, DEAD] 02:05:54 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:18:03 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:51 -!- Blazinghand_ is now known as Blazinghand 02:19:40 -!- feralfantom has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:24:40 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:16 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:09 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:27:10 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:29:15 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:18 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31:43 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 02:33:24 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:19 -!- jeffrom has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:38:53 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:46:43 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:56:01 -!- Nomi has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:58:07 -!- dcss5947 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:21 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:16:22 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:13 -!- dtsundere has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:32 -!- dtsund has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:17:34 -!- dtsundere is now known as dtsund 03:19:50 is it possible to less the brainless status effect? 03:24:10 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:16 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:08 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:30 ??brainless 03:36:31 brainless[1/1]: Caused by hitting zero intelligence. Can't memorise or cast spells (or read manuals or tomes of Destruction!), 80% chance of failure when reading scrolls. Effects persist for a while after reaching positive int again. Also the usual stat zero effects (halved speed, increasing chances of fainting, death after 90 turns). 03:38:20 -!- Arendeth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 03:49:36 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:54:53 -!- fdel is now known as Nexos_ 04:02:10 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:27 -!- Adder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:08:55 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:58 -!- Nexos_ is now known as Nexos 04:22:21 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:23:41 -!- eurtek has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:29:27 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:53 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:19 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:34:53 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:45:28 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:49:12 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: later] 04:53:50 Fix animated weapons of protection by qoala 04:56:55 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:56 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: sleep] 05:07:41 !messages 05:07:42 No messages for TZer0. 05:13:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:25:16 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 05:30:21 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:24 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 05:35:59 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:37:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:40 -!- herself has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:44:12 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:43 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:53:10 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:59:23 -!- dcss46474 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:09 -!- steve___ is now known as steve2 06:12:19 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:15 -!- twelwe has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:24:27 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:28:19 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:29:02 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:34 I am so glad that I have the crawl-server running right now 06:29:40 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 06:29:44 that I did it right after my "vacations" began 06:30:00 truth be told.. I am not having vacations... 06:30:01 :P 06:31:10 hah 06:31:20 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:32:01 btw, kilobyte 06:32:07 where in Poland do you live? 06:32:41 northern part, a small town in the middle of nowhere 06:32:51 Name? 06:32:57 of the town that is 06:32:57 Starogard Gdański 06:33:12 Mhm. 06:34:43 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:34:43 So I generally stay in the other side of Poland I see.. 06:36:59 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:18 kilobyte: Bielsko-Biala if you wondered. 06:38:30 or BB as the cool kids say on GG 06:38:32 :P 06:38:41 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:04 -!- Naruni has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:19 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:48:21 !learn add polymoth New to 0.13, polymorphs monsters in your line of sight into stronger monsters. Much less likely to polymorph something already polymorphed, with a chance that goes lower as HD rises. 06:48:22 polymoth[1/1]: New to 0.13, polymorphs monsters in your line of sight into stronger monsters. Much less likely to polymorph something already polymorphed, with a chance that goes lower as HD rises. 06:48:46 -!- johnthebear has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:51:53 -!- klz has quit [Changing host] 06:54:39 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:54 -!- Nexos is now known as fdel 07:10:54 -!- Naruni has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:28 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:16:01 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:42 -!- mumra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:46:14 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:25 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:35 -!- Wahaha has quit [] 08:00:24 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 08:03:37 -!- emeraldemon has quit [Client Quit] 08:06:51 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:44 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:30 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:16:14 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 08:26:38 -!- dcss67897 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:39 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:29:55 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:53 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:19 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 08:40:15 |amethyst? 08:40:21 what's the current mailinglist? 08:45:04 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:45:14 -!- giorgian has joined ##crawl-dev 08:45:33 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:11 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Changing host] 08:51:13 Attempting to Read a Blink/TP scroll should not waste a turn if wearing id'd -tele item by battaile 09:03:01 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:52 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:00 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:06:33 <|amethyst> Napkin: you mean the secret list, or CRD? 09:07:26 <|amethyst> Napkin: ah, I see your mail 09:07:44 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 09:08:20 <|amethyst> Napkin: for that, probabaly crawl-ref-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net 09:08:47 <|amethyst> Napkin: crawl-dev@dobrazupa.org goes straight to me 09:09:30 <|amethyst> Napkin: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss 09:11:59 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:45 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:15:55 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:22:15 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:24:54 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:30:09 -!- Sudoninja17 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:32:21 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:45 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:01 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:34:14 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 09:37:27 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:38:20 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:48:48 -!- Napkin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:00 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:27 -!- fdel is now known as Nexos 09:57:16 -!- OneEyedJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:59:07 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:59:10 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Quit: Specialization is for Insects] 10:00:12 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:15 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:08:03 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:57 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:04 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:17:49 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:18:40 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:25:24 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:31 -!- Nexos is now known as Nexos_ 10:38:23 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:46:36 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 10:49:09 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:38 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:46 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:48 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:53:48 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 10:54:33 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:59:54 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:00:56 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 11:01:42 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:54 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:03:53 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Iceweasel 21.0/20130515140136]] 11:06:33 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:16:30 -!- giorgian has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:13 Exavian2 the Executioner (L17 LOBe) ERROR in 'abyss.cc' at line 1251: ASSERT failed: grd(*ri) of 0 out of range DNGN_UNSEEN + 1 (1) .. NUM_FEATURES (134) (Abyss:1) 11:19:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:19:15 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:20:32 -!- BrightCloud has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:24:58 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:26:52 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:33 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:11 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:34:23 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:36:28 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:02 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:25 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 11:38:25 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:35 -!- clouded_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:39 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:10 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:02:37 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:53 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04:01 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 12:06:32 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:14 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:28 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:41 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:15:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:53 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 12:18:31 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2202-g857913d (34) 12:20:19 -!- Porost has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 12:20:39 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:47 -!- SudoNinja17 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:21:37 -!- Porost has quit [Client Quit] 12:22:07 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:28:04 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:12 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:20 -!- namad7 has quit [] 12:40:38 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:43 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:47 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:42:06 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:42:17 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 12:43:47 -!- chewymouse has quit [Client Quit] 12:50:22 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:30 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 12:55:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:45 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:58:53 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:44 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:28 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:22 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:27 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:38 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:48 -!- steve2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:31:12 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:34:54 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:04 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:16 Vaults for Elf, Forest, Vestible, Hells by nicolae 13:48:47 -!- sepik121 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:51:55 !tell SamB re runes: this is UNNACCEPTABLE 13:51:56 Grunt: OK, I'll let samb know. 13:54:02 quick question: How do I put a trap into a vault and have it start off revealed? 13:54:14 KFEAT: ^ = known trap 13:55:06 got it 14:04:32 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:08:48 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:10:18 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:14:27 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:27 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:02 -!- herself has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:31:45 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:37:40 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:15 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:26 -!- Zermako has quit [] 14:40:04 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:45 -!- smaddox has quit [Client Quit] 14:42:16 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:57 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 14:47:40 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:16 -!- Kellhus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:28 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2203-g99bf47b: Vaults from nicolae (#7295). 10(22 minutes ago, 7 files, 1383+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=99bf47b3d0da 14:59:28 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2204-g9de0b46: Allow a lot of single-altar vaults from altar.des to place as overflows. 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 141+ 97-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9de0b46a1f45 14:59:30 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:30 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:54 hunh, that was quick 15:01:26 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2205-ga55e701: Reinstate a DEPTH: for one of the just-moved altars. 10(48 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a55e7016fed0 15:01:39 I borrowed some of your Tar decor vaults to use as tar_grunt decor on a rare chance; I hope you don't mind <_< 15:01:50 not at all 15:04:58 hm, do we still need more single-altar generic overflow vaults, do you think? 15:05:11 We should be good for the moment. 15:05:20 What I think we need right now is more Forest endings, but that may just be me >_> 15:05:37 i had a few ideas for forest endings but i wanted to stop thinking about elf, forest, and the hells for a little while 15:05:56 is the branch finalized now? 15:06:05 If you want to do something overflow-related, we can always use more overflows of various sizes. 15:06:06 at some point i should probably start working on dragon's den for real 15:06:22 Mu_, it'll probably never be finalised - we'll just reach a point where we say "good enough" >_> 15:06:48 grunt: you mean the ones that are generic overflows with 2-6 generic altars? 15:07:16 I include "one" in various sizes. 15:07:25 ah 15:11:12 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:12 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 15:17:49 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:19:15 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:19:34 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 15:20:33 -!- rndmh3ro has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:20:48 -!- oberstein has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:21:49 Grunt: Did you introduce functionality for overflow temples with a variable number of altars? 15:22:03 somebody did, at least 15:22:13 i'd seen the variants in the .des files for ages but never saw them in game 15:22:41 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:49 gammafunk: I did, yes; what of it? 15:23:10 Er... 15:23:34 To be clear, the concept of "multi-altar overflow temples" was enabled by |amethyst; I added the functionality to allow them to have variable numbers of altars. 15:24:08 Grunt: I'm just wondering how those fit in with having overflow temples with specific numbers of altars 15:24:11 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:44 Maybe the ones with fixed numbers of altars should have an obvious relationship with the vault design and that altar number 15:25:25 Well, the idea there was that if you had a base layout that works well with varying numbers of altars, you'd be able to do that. 15:25:57 Basically I was inspired to do this after I saw the old minitemple (aka minivault_3) and realised I could apply a similar concept to an open plan overflow vault. 15:27:02 -!- NaWz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:30:01 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.9 sic populo comunicated] 15:30:15 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:34:17 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 15:35:23 just out of curiosity does the "decor" tag have any specific use other than that one serial vault that puts more decor vaults in the later dungeon 15:35:54 Not at present, but I'm keeping it there in case that changes. 15:40:51 How am I supposed to test my new vaults when trying to add them in bricks the crawl installation? 15:41:10 ... figure out what you're breaking first? 15:41:47 It used to be that I could test new vaults by just adding them into the .des files, but now whenever I do that crawl refuses to start up 15:41:53 And even removing them at that point doesn't fix it 15:42:00 its fighting back 15:42:43 elliott: Adding in a vault that is nothing more than a single tile and nothing else bricks it 15:42:55 For once, I don't think it's my bad vault making skills at fault 15:44:46 For reference, I don't even get a error message, crawl just exits automatically whenever I press enter 15:45:48 ...? 15:46:07 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:47:11 gdb ./crawl 15:47:27 I'm guessing from the silence that either this isn't a problem or it's a big problem 15:47:28 you might be causing a segfault 15:48:10 how do I fix it then 15:48:20 Figure out what's going wrong, first? 15:48:35 git status / git diff to see what you've actually changed? 15:48:46 Is this a Crawl you built yourself, one of the binaries, ...? 15:48:52 or if you committed, find the last good commit with git log 15:48:54 One of the binaries 15:49:13 Tiles? Console? 15:49:22 And all I'm doing is editing the des files in the dat folder 15:49:26 also the des files are cached somewhere locally on startup 15:49:34 oh 15:49:34 "somewhere" = saves/dat/ 15:49:43 er 15:49:44 s/dat/des/ 15:49:47 saves/des/ 15:49:54 so delete those and it'll work again? 15:49:55 so that is why "removing them" from src/dat/des isn't working 15:50:23 delete those and it'll re-cache the ones in src/dat/des 15:50:28 oh 15:50:38 that's kind of finnicky but I guess it'll fix things 15:50:54 you could try editing the caches ones if you're brave 15:51:03 not brave 15:52:21 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:53:14 ok, no good 15:53:48 it only re-cached the branch vaults 15:54:16 Man, i wish it was like how it worked back in .11 when you could just edit the des files directly without any consequence 15:54:38 i edit the des files all the time? 15:54:50 have you tried reinstalling 15:55:35 Yes, but the second I make ONE change, it bricks 15:55:43 damn 15:55:59 What version is the build? 15:56:11 .13-a0-1458 15:56:18 That's... pretty old... 15:56:22 I'll update to the latest one if necessary 15:56:32 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 15:56:39 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:11 Wasn't there some problem with semi-recent builds not giving error messages for vault errors? 15:57:22 On startup 15:57:37 that's probably it 15:57:46 did that bug get squished 15:57:58 Not to my knowledge 15:58:08 why hasn't it been fixed yet 15:58:44 What, will I have to test my vaults in .11 until it's fixed? 15:58:47 I don't know. I am not actually familiar with the issue myself, but have heard others talk of it 15:59:07 I think tiles still gives error messages? 15:59:16 (But possibly only if it is LAUCHED from console) 15:59:31 I think part of the issue is that making any change to the des files after it's first booted bricks the installation completely 16:00:26 I suspect there's simply some error in what you added to them 16:00:27 talk to the kilobyte 16:00:27 SamB: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:00:31 he did it 16:00:32 And it's not helpfully telling you what it is 16:00:35 !messages 16:00:37 (1/1) Grunt said (2h 8m 41s ago): re runes: this is UNNACCEPTABLE 16:00:42 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:44 uh huh 16:00:51 what happened to runes 16:00:58 %git HEAD^{/glyph} 16:00:59 07SamB * 0.13-a0-2188-g862ac03: Give runes their own default glyph (φ for now) 10(23 hours ago, 5 files, 20+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=862ac03750b9 16:01:02 new glyph 16:01:07 oh, right 16:01:45 * Lightli mutters something about MTG under his breath 16:03:20 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 16:04:22 SamB is giving us all functions from calculus instead of runes now 16:05:22 gammafunk: My MTG addiction is making me think of something far worse than mere calculus 16:05:34 MTG? 16:05:40 card game 16:05:46 oh, Magic 16:08:37 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:22 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 16:09:43 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:40 what's wrong with the des cache? 16:10:42 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:08 must have just been a bug that already got squished, adding in a bad joke vault worked 16:11:26 maybe crawl just has a weird sense of humor 16:11:36 heh 16:11:47 nicolae-: okay I am starting to feel like I'm being beaten at my own game 16:11:53 Part of it might be that the new vaults are portal entries 16:11:56 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:02 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:04 save for one that isn't 16:12:17 first ontoclasm's vaults vaults and now things like nicolae_forest_quartered_pool_ 16:12:27 the des cache has a load of issues and its rewrite is quite high on my TODO list, but in a single-user scenario, it mostly works 16:12:33 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:12:57 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=i8xAKiYF 16:13:13 what do you mean by any change bricking the installation? 16:13:34 no clue, but I just posted the serious vaults up so that if I messed up there somehow I can fix it 16:14:01 Read, once it stopped working, even deleting all the vaults wasn't enough to fix it 16:14:08 *all the vaults that I added) 16:14:21 well, that does sound bad 16:14:46 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 16:14:55 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:15:18 tenofswords: you mean in terms of a ton of shuffles? 16:15:32 yes 16:15:44 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:10 i did think of you when i started writing out those long lines 16:16:34 though in quartered_pools_ at least i think the shuffles are mostly straightforward 16:16:35 ... I knew it <_< 16:16:40 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:16:53 my influences continue to slowly spread 16:17:02 conducts being followed and piety being gathered 16:17:06 s/influences continue/corruption continues/ 16:17:07 >_> 16:17:14 the vaultgod 16:18:01 Choose the form of tenofswords, the destructor! 16:18:19 Which leads me to think about a ghostbusters vault 16:18:27 earlier forest talk: I've still got work to do on http://sprunge.us/eijG (though my interests have be directed elsewhere at the moment) and while I think it's important to get some forest ends that use the new monsters and stuff 16:18:31 stone giant name:marshmallow_giant 16:18:32 Followed by a TMNT vault 16:18:39 Grunt: hahah 16:18:44 tenofswords would take the form of a long complex SHUFFLE: ABFH87/ajsd1, apoajd, 741, 981ty/aehja 16:18:53 it is kind of difficult to ascertain what kind of difficulty the branch wants 16:19:34 In general, I still like the idea of making Crypt/Forest a rune branch and stealing the demonic rune for this purpose 16:19:53 More work needs doing on both of them for this, of course 16:20:07 what about not guaranting the same four Pan lords every time instead? 16:20:08 Or a hell rune at random for forest 16:20:34 hell lords at least have a whole branch to them, rather than a single vault 16:20:40 oh 16:20:57 We could still guarantee all 4 lords but just not all 4 runes 16:21:10 Instead of what? 16:21:12 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:34 DracoOmega: demonic 16:21:37 The demonic rune is definitely the best of the Pan runes to cut, if that's what you're saying. A lot of people dislike getting it as it is. 16:21:45 although you can currently trivially reroll it 16:21:54 er, why? 16:22:09 it actually makes people fight pan lords for once 16:22:14 SHIFT and CTRL do not work on Android keyboards by Helmschank 16:22:19 there are other ways to make people fight pan lords 16:22:34 (although their vaults are too uneven for that to be a good challenge if you're willing to skip) 16:22:34 and a lot of the time people will still skip through floors after the demonic rune or even before it 16:22:38 Why do they dislike it? Well, most likely because it's a lot more searching around until you find it, and can go on for a fairly long time, and doesn't present the same obvious signs as other runes, etc. 16:22:57 Unless it's one of the 3 1-shot vaults guaranteed to have it 16:23:08 Well, I did think that Pan itself could get some changes to go with this, since it's not great if the random Pan lord vaults just get skipped constantly 16:23:21 three one doesn't necessarily recognize 16:23:37 Hellion Island is kind of obvious to be fair 16:23:37 One wild idea was to have portals to the next realm of Pan be primarily inside Pan lord vaults (and make Pan shorter / possibly finite0 16:23:45 exploring levels makes you find the rune quicker 16:24:00 DracoOmega: but then how are the insane people going to beat 100 ziggurats with one character 16:24:52 Admittedly, losing infinite Zigs is kind of sad for those people who would do them, but there are other ways to handle that 16:25:11 i'd rather crypt and forest just didn't have runes tbh 16:25:20 radical idea: four types of pan levels, themed on the lords, portals in one kind of level will tend to take you to a similar level. portals to other kinds of levels appear mostly in pan lord vaults, who can reappear occasionnally on any level of their kind. like... four subrealms within pan that you switch between. 16:25:24 possibly that's dumb? 16:25:52 Mu_: I quite agree, although I'm only ~60% towards your side 16:26:09 Mu_: giving XP and loot is an incentive enough 16:26:18 also, one thing I noticed 16:26:22 i am for demonic rune removal / crypt-forest runes 16:26:30 also for finite pan 16:26:36 Mu_: Why not? It feels like it could give them a stronger sense of purpose (especially if they are to be somewhat more challenging), and just about no one I've seen previously likes the demonic rune much 16:26:38 If one spams summon greater demon, the rank 1 demons summoned by it aren't affected by the cap 16:27:49 mossy rune of zot. dusty rune of zot. 16:28:09 cryptic rune of zot surely 16:28:17 ah, much better 16:28:23 DracoOmega: about curse skulls: I'm afraid we need to revert their mobility (possibly moving that to some other monster?) -- as it breaks every single real vault that spawns them, and ZotDef 16:28:39 DracoOmega: and mobile curse skulls are nearly redundant with curse toes, too 16:28:44 show of hands whole the hell cares about zotdef 16:28:49 To be honest, I think curse toes are more the problem there 16:28:58 On the latter point 16:29:21 curse toes have kept the ludicrious defenses and will actually chase you around corners 16:29:21 i just like the idea of there being some branches that don't have runes, and crypt is still really easy, and i guess the branch ends would have to be redone 16:29:39 by "real vault" I mean ones other than that 1x1 single-monster spawner; why does it exist in the first place? They could spawn normally. 16:30:00 Mu_: Well, the 'really easy' bit is something I'd still like to fix anyway, but certainly would have even more leeway to do so if they were intended to be more difficult 16:30:02 i haven't tried forest since the last big bunch of forest changes but old forest and crypt weren't even close difficulty wise 16:30:35 Forest now has elemental watersprings, who alone are nightmarish 16:30:47 tenofswords: zotdef is mostly a single sprint: if you beat it, it's not as interesting anymore -- but before you do, it does have a point 16:31:07 on one of my recent wins i cleared elf:3, had to abandon forest at forest:4, and did vault:5 instead because it was easier :p 16:31:09 kilobyte: I am not sure I'd agree that it breaks all vaults that use them, though? Like, okay sometimes they might have been intended to be stationary loot guards, but how are the vaults broken by them being mobile loot guards (since most loot guards are mobile anyway) 16:31:10 it also requires an extremely disorted style of play 16:31:24 %git 478a3e55 16:31:25 07zaba * 0.8.0-a0-3872-g478a3e5: Turn the curse skull placement special case of Crypt into minivaults. 10(2 years, 7 months ago, 2 files, 18+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=478a3e55e665 16:31:33 DracoOmega: some more than others, yeah 16:31:35 ^ this is why we have those placer vaults to begin with. 16:32:10 (disorted and un-updated play that hurts things like trap cuts) 16:32:46 (This is similar to the reason we have basic_altar, for that matter.) 16:32:52 kilobyte: Can you point out some specific vault that you feel simply doesn't work with them mobile? I think at least the Crypt:$ vaults that use them should manage fine with them being mobile 16:33:31 the only vaults I can see that "rely" on immobility involved are crypt_entry_nasty_monster and shrine_of_skulls 16:33:35 bbl 16:33:37 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 16:33:48 and are both acceptable hits to reducing immobile counts 16:34:07 And in that case the fact that they are now mobile means you can't just say "no" and stay away once you see them, because now they'll just follow you 16:34:10 (sorry dracoomega I still think immobiles remove most of the point and interest of combat of crawl) 16:36:04 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 16:36:18 what does that mean 16:36:33 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:36:42 already wrote on this a bunch when writing up vault standards guides things but 16:36:51 -!- pantaril has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:04 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:37:58 basically monsters moving in response to the player moving as well as manipulating LOF/LOS is one of the biggest parts of fighting stuff crawl keeps and yet for the most part most immobiles are just nasty effect one steps outside f the exclusion to deal with 16:38:38 Like how my DEFEs deal with oklobs by popping them from out of LOS with fireball if possible? 16:39:13 there's also freezing cloud, but simply ignoring the space around an exclusion doesn't hurt much 16:39:26 if i could just pull oklobs into the mouth of a corridor they'd be way less interesting 16:39:45 there is a potential use to them guarding 16:39:51 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:40:05 I just think it mostly feels like the same two or three kinds of guarding every time for a lot of statue and oklob vaults 16:41:36 crypt_entry_nasty_monster doesn't require immobility 16:42:05 badly broken: spider_temple_joshua, evilmike_crystal_ball_defense 16:42:11 the curse skull in the right room of my crypt end does 16:42:20 broken but easily removable: evilmike_haunted_forest 16:42:28 rely for looks: hangedman_restless_catacombs 16:42:30 oh, that's what I get for just looking through crypt.des 16:42:42 could be easily edited: hangedman_research_thanatology hangedman_snap_crack_crunch (heavily randomized) 16:42:48 st_shrine_of_skulls 16:42:54 it definitely doesn't need to be immobile in catacombs or snap_crack_crunch 16:43:03 broken because of noise: sprint_mu_d3_branching 16:43:21 npt broken at all: vestibule_tar_nicolae_necropolis, crypt_curse_skull/crypt_curse_skull_rare, minmay_crypt_entry_nasty_monster 16:43:24 that's a redundant statement, it's sprint :P 16:43:45 ... and zotdef, of course 16:43:52 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:53 Why are the ones in haunted_forest broken, anyway? 16:43:54 evilmike_crystal_ball_defense being zotdef 16:43:58 What is the harm with them moving? 16:44:08 "because they move from their important loot guarding spots!!!!!!" 16:44:20 Like the ancient liches? 16:44:25 honestly I think patrolling behaviour works more than fine for most of the scenarios that need it 16:44:33 Yes, patrolling seems quite fine 16:44:52 things change but there is nothing wrong with making things more functional outside of vaults 16:45:02 that place makes them hard to pass through if you can't lure them out 16:45:24 having to close distance with an enemy that casts torment and summons obstacles is kind of obviously more interesting that dragging that enemy somewhere convenient 16:45:29 if they move, it's a few whacks to the head; if they don't, you need to cross the water 16:45:43 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:55 mu_: curse skulls have special AI, you know 16:46:06 kilobyte: You do realize you can't normally lure them into melee range, right? 16:46:25 why not? 16:46:36 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:48 Because of said AI. It will always try to maximize distance between you and it, when you come into view again 16:46:59 If you duck around a corner, it will wait at the end of the corridor instead 16:47:07 Instead of right around the corner 16:47:20 oh ok 16:47:35 yes, but that will not be the spot they had been placed in 16:47:51 like _every other monster_ with the existence of noise 16:48:05 people can just design around noise, you know, even if most don't 16:48:15 Sure, but how is that 'just a few whacks on the head'? I mean, if you need to walk across the same amount of terrain, does it usually matter if it's in one spot or another spot? 16:48:20 yeah, that's why they were unique (statue-likes that are actually dangerous) 16:48:26 <|amethyst> could make them immobile if they have "patrolling" 16:48:35 <|amethyst> it sounds backwards but kind of makes sense 16:48:36 That sounds confusing 16:48:39 it's nice to imply that most statue-likes aren't 16:48:54 Like, some curse skulls move and some don't and the only way to know for sure is looking at the vault? 16:49:27 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:49:35 could do some flavour nonsense with colour-changed floor and walls to indicate non-moving curse skulls but I don't care for missing the point 16:49:45 the thing is, we already do have mobile curse skulls: toes 16:49:52 so I'd improve toe AI instead 16:50:02 but toes aren't used in places outside of zot 16:50:14 Also toes are slow and waste their time summoning mushrooms for some reason 16:50:16 and zot already has a very strong cluster of gimmicks 16:51:03 we'd need some other high-end immobile monster then 16:51:10 We would? 16:51:11 for zotdef and a majority of these vaults 16:51:40 who says 16:51:57 well, I listed all of them above 16:52:13 I do not think that the majority of those vaults in any way obligate a stationary monster 16:52:19 Zotdef I cannot speak to 16:52:46 zotdef already lost its ultimate ability, so there's no real replacement 16:52:53 -!- Silurio1 is now known as Silurio 16:52:58 a zotdef mockery vault is something I don't care much about because I don't care at all for even keeping around the broken one-time-fun un-updated scummy thing known as zotdef 16:53:20 and I'm confused as to why spider_temple_joshua can't be edited 16:53:37 there's silver statue at XL20, oklob circle at XL22, then nothing else 16:53:46 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:13 -!- eurtek has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:54:16 i'd want stationary skulls for my crypt:( 16:54:43 tenofswords: because it needs a stationary monster 16:55:11 why does it need a stationary monster 16:55:20 tenofswords: currently you get either oklobs or curse skulls 16:55:32 and why does this behaviour need to be preserved 16:56:40 If it's really that important, just put the curse skull behind iron grates 16:56:45 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:19 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2206-ge5352be: Marshall monster constriction, items and spells only if non-empty. 10(10 hours ago, 2 files, 28+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e5352be0157e 16:57:52 ...for once I support something lightli has said, if it being a lesser evil 16:58:11 tenofswords: then how do you propose repairing zotdef? 16:59:03 removing it 16:59:08 ... 16:59:13 (revamping the skills, more seriously) 16:59:27 replace them with curse skull statues 16:59:55 like for example almost none of the skills are actually themed around zot 17:00:04 I'm not saying it needs to be a curse skull, it needs to be something big and nasty 17:00:23 Orb of fire 17:00:43 that's mobile 17:00:48 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:28 create new things for zotdef so they don't have to depend on or be broken by changes to monster mechanics 17:01:34 something tells me that a rarely-played variant that has a ton of potential abuses can take a slight stab in strength 17:01:45 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:10 tenofswords: the problem is that there are no other top-tier turrets 17:02:17 fine, stealing 17:02:24 Improvements to spotty_map and smear_map by infiniplex 17:02:24 zot statues from sprint III 17:02:49 (yes it wounds me to imply legitmizing a vault monster but this debate is dumb) 17:02:58 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:30 DracoOmega: since i've been looking at better inter-level transit for allies, it'd be pretty easy to also have a monster type that could follow the player across levels (even if they don't see the player leave the level) 17:03:41 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:48 DracoOmega: i'm just wondering if curse skulls could be a good candidate for this 17:04:07 Haha, that could be kind of amusing 17:04:14 so even if you try to ignore them and move on they'll catch up at some point :) 17:04:16 That would be terrible; they're already aggravating enough as it is >_> 17:04:17 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:28 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:39 I thought it was an implied summon 17:04:42 they could alternatively be removed from the normal game 17:05:18 summon curse skull limited to one skull and and some specific limit on its own summons? 17:05:37 tenofswords: it's a skull that's cursed; how does this imply it's summoned? 17:05:57 no, I mean as an alternative use 17:05:57 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:05:58 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:05:59 * kilobyte ponders taking away your toy, chaining it to the wall, and taking away its spells. 17:06:14 hehe 17:06:14 does murray move different now too 17:06:16 aka, http://www.mariowiki.com/Chain_Chomp 17:06:19 (Xom says, "Hey, that's my toy, go get your own!") 17:06:33 mu_: no, I think 17:06:33 or does he still move like murray 17:06:53 i think it'd be good to have one monster type or a unique that can leave its level and follow you anyway (would have to be slow, with ranged attacks) 17:06:55 a chain and a charging attack could be interesting 17:07:19 although, of course, as a mid-tier melee thing that's nowhere near the danger of current curse skills 17:07:31 kilobyte: Scroll of punishment? 17:07:47 the closest analogue would really be eldritch tentacles 17:08:15 which work in maybe one place and otherwise don't really work as hell effects 17:08:33 Well mumra has that really crazy L3 summons proposal where a tentacle comes out your body to melee things 17:08:40 kind of like some personal malign gateway 17:08:52 yeah it could possibly constrict as well 17:08:55 tenofswords: hmm, you're right about eldritch tentacles. I had a different mechanics in mind, but in the end, the result would still be similar. 17:08:59 might be quite strong tho 17:09:07 pfff, summoning 17:09:13 but well, we still don't have a curse skull replacement 17:09:16 any ideas? 17:09:16 this is clearly a chance to make up for how boring beastly appendage is 17:09:48 tenofswords: that sounds interesting, but not for a level 1 spell 17:09:51 tenofswords: i thought for a while about a beastly appendage replacement involving an actual tentacle 17:10:00 but yeah, would be too cool for level 1 17:10:08 why not a new transmutations spell 17:10:39 in my original idea (this has been in my mind a while) you could control the tentacle and it would be tmut 17:11:06 what if it was just a spectral weapon? (except unarmed, weaker, and with full damage sharing)? 17:11:10 but actually it's hard to make this particularly useful 17:11:25 too easy to take more damage than it's worth? 17:11:30 kilobyte: yeah that's basically the new idea i'm thinking 17:11:32 dragon form second coming 17:12:03 Except at least you can dish out stupendous amounts of damage in dragon form. 17:12:31 kilobyte: and possibly damage sharing should be removed from SW anyway, whereas this would get it (full damage sharing is harsh, i think 25-50% would be better) 17:13:06 mumra: that tentacle is your body part, so it should work like a kraken/etc 17:13:27 yeah but full damage sharing is REALLY nasty, like when you get hit by hellfire 17:13:36 Full damage sharing would be far too harsh because that means twice (worst case) the amount of enemies can hammer on it. 17:13:38 kilobyte: a body part you don't actually need 17:13:43 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:04 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:14:13 my concept was that the tentacle is a separate entity, but it's partly integrated with your body, so you share some damage but not all 17:14:16 tenofswords: or, an ultimate level 9 Tmut/Summ spell: summon the most dangerous creature in the dungeon, which wins 20:1 vs Cerebov 17:14:22 -!- Moredread has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:27 eldritch abomination 17:14:36 tenofswords: ie, the player (thus Tmut/, as you're splitting) 17:14:41 mumra: Also, if it's L3, it might not be something players would rely on for post-game anyways 17:14:49 !killratio Cerebov 17:14:49 what spell is this now 17:14:51 Cerebov wins 5.875% of battles. 17:15:00 I guess it applies to fireball as well, but even that is late-game 17:15:04 that seems pretty low 17:15:05 not quite 20:1 is it 17:15:11 more 19:1, ish 17:15:23 i think? i can never remember the right way to write odds 17:15:23 gammafunk: sure, but even earlier on full damage sharing is a major downside, as we've seen with SW 17:16:04 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:29 well, if it's a replacement for beastly, that'd make it L1 17:16:46 so downsides are a good thing 17:16:58 at this point it was intended as a summoning spell 17:17:21 my original concept was tmut but i think it's more interesting as summoning 17:17:33 what was the idea? 17:18:10 Summons a horrid tentacle which sprouts from your own body. Requires at least one adjacent space to cast, only 1 active at a time. Shares a % of damage (perhaps only on death). 17:18:15 It can move into other squares adjacent to you, and attacks foes adjacent to itself. The player can still move and the tentacle moves with them. It's a separately-summoned entity more than an extension of your body, so transmutations can still be used with this. 17:18:30 neat 17:18:33 you know 17:18:48 it'd be nice if it was controlled like normal allies 17:18:55 but instead the commands are instantaneous 17:19:01 one time i was thinking about a lovecraftian type deity where one of the higher powers was that you turn yourself into a gateway for an eldritch tentacle 17:19:28 Bloax: the idea of having to shout at a part of your own body to attack things is kind of amusing 17:19:29 (at 6* piety you get the whole being the tentacle is attached to) 17:19:40 nicolae-: that sounds quite similar heh 17:19:42 mumra: Well you could technically call it turn-based thinking. 17:19:43 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 17:19:43 How about some kind of high-level transmut that's 'eldritch form', where the details of the form are somewhat randomized upon each casting? 17:19:49 Because you're shouting in your mind. :x 17:19:59 move your own body parts around dr. strangelove style 17:20:23 i am reminded of octodad 17:20:25 curse toe name:curse_hand n_rpl 17:20:41 Well as was noted there's really a lack of high-level pure transmutations. 17:20:42 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:20:58 Because with statue form it's a very bad idea to train transmutations. 17:21:09 i really love that there's a growing genre of games where you perform a really basic activity with a ridiculous level of specific motor control, qwop, octodad, surgeon simulator... 17:21:16 Because then you'll be pulling away experience from the AC Earth would provide. 17:21:24 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:21:38 oh boy, do you need transmutation ideas, because *pulls out giant folder* 17:21:42 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:22:08 I like transmutations so why not. 17:22:09 summoning the player in any capacity should clearly be a xom effect where he rakshasas copies of the player and the most dangerous monster in LOS 17:22:26 and makes a comment about running some numbers and fsim 17:22:59 ...what's that line about running some toy crash tests <_< 17:23:09 actually come to think of it i don't have very many transmutations ideas 17:23:24 nicolae-: What was in that folder, then? 17:23:31 Don't tell me naughty pictures 17:23:47 wait what is this a thing now https://github.com/gameclosure/gcif 17:23:48 *opens folder* looks like... recipes 17:23:55 ...for DISASTER. 17:24:08 summoning is in more dire need of help than tmut right now i think 17:24:12 well, yes 17:24:13 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:24:28 -!- Igxfl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:24:28 mumra: What makes you sayt that 17:24:34 Summoning has been on life support since long ago it seems. 17:24:51 While transmutations are one of the healthiest branches but kind of lacking in variety. 17:25:01 Bloax: Summoning has always been broken and some people claim that it still is broken 17:25:05 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:25:10 Lightli: the nerfs place more focus on the individual summons, which highlights the fact that a lot of them aren't very interesting or terribly well thought out 17:25:23 oh 17:25:38 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 17:25:39 Which ones are well thought out/interesting? 17:25:39 mumra: what would you say are the best-designed summonings, post-nerf, and what are the least 17:25:48 some even focus on large numbers instead (if not to the best of qualities) 17:26:00 demonic horde, scorpions, ugly things 17:26:24 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:26 nicolae-: malign gateway, summon greater demon 17:28:03 a summon where a bunch of stationary monsters like giant hellish worms or something come out of the ground for a couple turns, popping out of the ground as you walk around 17:28:04 -!- drag0n_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:28:11 nicolae-: i like ice beasts for the slow debuff they cause; malign gateway is obviously awesome but needs some usability improvements; dragons are nice for being ranged and powerful 17:28:16 hellworms 17:28:21 hydrae are pretty awesome too 17:28:36 but none of them especially stand out other than malign 17:28:45 -!- Nomi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:29:14 grunt: or maybe like, clutching undead bits 17:29:31 nicolae-: that would be necromancy tho 17:29:46 hydra form 17:29:52 necro/summoning 17:29:55 kilobyte: extra spell power gives more heads? 17:29:56 problem solved 17:30:11 hydrataur form 17:30:15 and lava orc monsters, so if you attack one you die after fifteen pages of spam (in a single attack) 17:30:34 nicolae-: the thing is necromantic summons are already pretty good, and necromancy has a lot of non-summoning design space 17:30:42 Technically we have lava orc monsters; they just don't have the temperature effects <_< 17:31:06 au bon pain mirror 17:31:17 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 17:31:37 summons that don't attack but have some useful aura. i think that was mentioned elsewhere i'm just +1ing it. 17:31:43 fr: xom effect "au bon pain mirror" 17:31:59 Grunt: I'm joking: hydras would be an interface nightmare if you could control other heads, or be an inexact clone of cleave if not 17:32:21 what's "au bon"? 17:33:00 "au bon pain" means "with good bread" frenchwise 17:33:20 nicolae-: so 50% of the time it clones your bread rations, and... :) 17:33:27 it's a bread store i've seen in relatively few places. 17:34:31 Summon Deity, if you worship a god it comes down to earth as a massive multi-tile thing that you can't even see the entirety of and smashes walls and foes 17:35:51 Way back when Pan first came into existence, the major panlords had the names of gods. <_< 17:35:58 (I love this bit of trivia, if you haven't noticed.) 17:36:00 nicolae-: but the god doesn't watch where he treads? 17:36:22 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:36:23 kilobyte: well, they're probably not used to having feet that aren't metaphorical 17:36:32 grunt: you mean in-game gods? 17:36:43 nicolae-: the modern Crawl deities, yes. 17:36:48 nice 17:36:54 Cerebov was Okawaru 17:37:01 Guess who the other three were :) 17:37:12 One was probably Nemelex 17:37:14 Or Xom 17:37:18 Lightli: which one? 17:37:24 sif, vehumet presumably 17:37:26 mnoleg xobeh, kikubaaqudgha vloq, lom muna 17:37:35 sorry for spoiling your fun 17:37:36 tenofswords, you already knew this :b 17:37:59 that's like cheating in a pub quiz!! 17:38:11 Someday I want to dig up a copy of the early Crawl 2.x series source code so I can trace the development of this. 17:38:15 that explains why cerebov lives in a castle full of random junk 17:38:22 okay that is good 17:38:44 lol 17:38:47 look in rltiles/UNUSED/gods/ : not even bigger than pan lords 17:38:56 Mu_: incorrect, Cerebov's castle tends to be filled with actually good loot 17:39:35 well he shaped up after he stopped being okawaru 17:39:36 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:39:52 Grunt: git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl-ancient.git 17:40:29 What happened if you worshipped Oka and you killed him 17:41:27 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:28 so when can we buff lom lobon, the somehow weakest & in terms of killratio 17:41:39 Lightli: We can only conclude that Okawaru keeps all the good stuff for himself. 17:41:47 But occasionally throws some of it out to not lose image. 17:41:49 summon idea, creates a portal like with malign gateway but instead of a single long lived beast that flails around, a ton of very-short-lived things comes out instead 17:41:53 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:13 (who has a level of monsters not half as mean as cerebov's or a lucky mnoleg's) 17:42:16 Air elemental storm 17:42:38 Give lom lobon paralyze 17:42:40 nicolae-: I read that as the spell being called Summon Idea and it being snark against idea engineering 17:42:47 no because eresh has that 17:42:55 i was joking 17:43:05 Ereshkigal (16&) | Spd: 14 | HD: 100 | HP: 350 | AC/EV: 10/30 | Dam: 4013(drain) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.cold (3d117), silence, greater demon, torment symbol, paralyse, major healing | Sz: Large | Int: high. 17:43:05 %??Ereshkigal hd:100 17:43:07 "A violent and wrathful demon, Okawaru appears as a giant human covered in shining golden armour and wielding a huge twisted sword. " 17:43:08 where is your god now 17:43:22 demons, gods, terrorists, freedom fighters 17:43:36 Nemelex, Sif, Oka, Kikubaaqudgha 17:43:40 tenofswords: interestingly i have had this same chain of thought on a previously occasion about Summon Idea 17:44:06 Summon Tavern Thread *level remains an uninhabitable desolation for thousands of turns* 17:44:08 actually this probably led to the "Summon Muse" spell I'm thinking about 17:44:15 what would summon muse do? 17:44:21 please say it won't summon the band 17:44:23 that reminds me of that one guy ages who bumped into a pan lord with the randomly-generated name "Trog" and so the game gave him the god trog's description 17:44:26 a pre- or post-nerf muse? 17:45:02 Mu_: that's fixed, random names are vetoed if they match anything that has a description in the database 17:45:04 nicolae-: sings a song or something like this that buffs your allies by inspiring them 17:45:06 lol 17:45:12 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:45:16 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:45:17 it was fixed when somebody got Ring, though, not Trog 17:45:18 mumra: can mummies even sing? 17:45:23 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 17:45:31 tenofswords: oh lmao that's even funnier 17:45:40 kilobyte: why is it a mummy? 17:45:46 you would summon a thing to do the singing for you, kilobyte 17:45:47 mumra: muse you said 17:45:55 no you don't sing about the muse 17:45:57 haha 17:46:07 nicolae-: So corrupt only even more nasty? 17:46:24 tavern isn't corruption because everything is corruption anyway 17:46:28 what job is se? 17:46:43 Sludge Elementalist 17:46:49 Bloax: Still dies in 3-4 fire storms, who cares 17:47:16 I'm pretty sure the ogre I splatted not too long ago would've smashed it in the same amount of hits, so yeah. 17:47:26 idea: a summon spell that conjures up a land kraken 17:47:27 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:33 though getting paralyzed would kinda suck 17:47:37 snaplashers spell 17:47:43 Summon Trees 17:47:51 and that bolt of cold would hurt 17:47:55 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:48:04 Summon Treants 17:48:07 I'm still waiting for that secret plan to bring back one very limited from of a sludge elf 17:48:09 nicolae-: i have a summon trees idea as well 17:48:25 Fun fact, due to MR formulas, an HD 100 Eresh wouldn't actually be significantly better at paralyzing you than the normal one 17:49:04 summon tide. suddenly out of nowhere (out of LoS) a gush of water comes past sweeping everything away (out of LoS again) 17:49:49 nicolae-: Summon Evil Wood, a temporary group of stationary animated trees around you, never next to each other or next to a wall, to avoid corridor abuse 17:50:07 player form of spirit howl 17:50:26 Summon Stairs 17:50:34 hostile rakshasa othher 17:50:36 Summon Golem 17:50:46 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:50:46 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:51:06 nearest staircase walks towards you, gets as close as possible before the spell expires 17:51:25 what if it gets next to you and tries to move towards you again 17:51:51 it explodes, killing everything 17:51:54 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:40 displace self 17:53:03 Centaur's Call 17:53:22 Summon a centaur to shoot enemies. At higher power, summon a centaur warrior with associated pack. 17:53:32 summon projectiles 17:54:37 -!- jday_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:54:45 speaking of a form of summoned projectiles 17:54:54 when do we break ghosts further by letting them use ranged combat 17:55:02 (something nobody understands yes) 17:55:44 -!- marquess has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:57:12 there might be a simple way to do it 17:57:48 Well, I imagine implementation isn't necessarily a problem, since shadow creatures can use fake ammo and such already 17:58:07 Well, not 'fake' in technical terms, but you know what I mean 17:58:35 could set up a fake "ranged ghost" spell with a beam that acts *similarly* and just do an approximation of different ranged types 17:58:41 However high xl ranged ghosts with real ranged weapons sound kind of terrifying 17:59:46 if it's flavoured as spirit ammo it doesn't have to have the same effect as normal ammo 18:00:06 spirit ammo, shot out of the mouths of spirit wolves 18:00:09 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:11 or is it made from their parts 18:00:30 spirit porcupines 18:00:33 that's where they get it 18:00:44 Possibly spirit wolves shouldn't leave corpses, actually 18:03:16 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 18:08:17 tenofswords: have you seen this thread about zigs btw 18:08:37 GrandiloquentGentleman has largely reimplementeed zigs in C++ apparently 18:08:44 * Grunt shudders. 18:08:54 but adding some new things too 18:09:10 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:28 zigs are a mess, reimplementing them in cobol well could be an improvement 18:09:29 zzzzzzzzz? 18:10:28 this is the thing; some of it sounds quite good tbh, but i'm a bit unsure if the implementation is actually much better this way 18:11:21 I don't like mutagenic floors because there's not enough legit threat in quite a few floors and this would only exacerbate it 18:11:33 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:12:01 and eurgh xom and chei floors 18:12:18 fr: literal mutagenic floors 18:12:36 We used to have chaos floors, yes? They got axed because they weren't really chaotic... 18:13:36 if by used to you mean they were briefly tested in my first zig patch but got cut right after applying the patch, than yes 18:13:36 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:15:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 18:16:22 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:16:35 same as D, but the room contains a radius 1000 chaos cloud generator 18:17:43 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:19:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:23 arena:chaos 18:19:24 <_< 18:19:54 !fight plant v plant arena:chaos delay:100 18:20:21 -!- crate_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:03 what exactly is going on here 18:21:12 Chaos! 18:21:23 kilobyte: do we have a cobol compiler ? 18:21:25 it's like a horrible little game of life with all the wrong rules. :D 18:21:37 qoala: a demonic game of life, in other words <_< 18:21:56 yeah if this were game of life they would be dead 18:22:26 fr: plants that spread game of life style 18:22:36 SamB: I seriously hope we don't 18:23:04 well Debian has 18:23:13 yeah, just checked :( 18:23:31 only one, though 18:23:38 nothing that needs it though 18:23:54 Not yet! 18:24:02 Clearly we get to incorporate it as part of our grand Zig rework! 18:24:02 >_> 18:24:28 well first we need to get one bundled with msysgit 18:24:35 * kilobyte would pass it through cobol-to-c then c-to-brainfuck translators. 18:25:18 this is actually one of the former 18:25:22 what I'd be planning for zig reworking: the aforementioned ring spawning with a low weight and lower total numbers, a regular "mirror floor in half" same thing, and add depth-adjustment and more mean monsters to the middling sets 18:25:32 which then calls GCC for your convenience 18:25:38 alongside always placing specific "bosses" for a minimal degree of danger 18:25:39 yeah; code generation for all arches is rather hard 18:25:56 could be implemented as a gcc front-end, but that's harder than emitting C 18:26:06 which is good for reducing the tedium of each floor but a few extremely dangerous ones dying to conjurations but perhaps this doesn't well address what other problems zigs have 18:26:21 c.c 18:26:34 best part of game of life is the OTCA metapixel 18:27:07 (aside from making it easier/harder to scum zigs with finite numbers and an end-of-zig evokable for another zig do people have particularly many problems with zigs) 18:27:42 Zannick: is that the big thing where they simulated life pixels in life itself 18:27:49 http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/OTCA_metapixel 18:27:51 yes 18:28:05 nice 18:28:06 also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJ77qsLrpw 18:28:13 Zannick: I don't think we have room for more than one of those in a crawl level? 18:28:14 now... can we make a metametapixel 18:28:43 metametametametametametapixel 18:28:53 ...clearly the analogue to newnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewvaults! 18:29:08 Grunt: I'm not sure anyone's had the patience for THAT yet 18:29:21 Well, life goes on, one way or another >_> 18:29:39 better version of the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6aP9S9rEQk 18:29:39 I think it might actually grind to a halt with so much meta 18:30:32 tenofswords: if you get the evokable at the end of a Zig, having to bail means game over 18:31:10 yes 18:31:21 you make this sound like a bad thing 18:31:34 -!- Pepe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:13 Zannick: ok that video blew my mind ;) 18:33:26 otca is some pretty heavy stuff 18:33:47 I thought game over was when you (a) died (b) (theoretically) brought the orb to D:0 18:34:08 ??staff of asmodeus 18:34:09 I don't have a page labeled staff_of_asmodeus in my learndb. 18:34:16 ??sceptre of asmodeus 18:34:17 sceptre of asmodeus[1/1]: +7, +7 staff. Evoke for an evo/30 chance to summon a charmed efreet/sun demon/balrug/hellion/brimstone fiend (which will turn hostile before timing out). Can't be abjured! 18:34:36 SamB: (c) quit 18:34:43 true 18:34:46 quitting is dying 18:34:49 d) leave without the orb <_< 18:34:59 heck, escaping is dying 18:35:04 KILLED_BY_WINNING 18:35:13 or (e) crawl eats your save 18:35:16 it's very existential. 18:35:21 KILLED_BY_CRAWL 18:35:28 KILLED_BY_DEATH 18:35:34 SamB: but that's not game over. that's game never begun 18:35:40 Death (152) | Spd: 10 | HD: 100 | HP: 504-602 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Dam: 45 | 05demonic, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 18:35:40 %??reaper name:Death hd:100 perm_ench:deaths_door 18:35:41 * Zannick mind blown 18:35:53 (Death has come for you...) 18:36:20 Death seems like it would have an oddly hard time killing some players 18:36:22 perm_ench deaths_door 18:36:32 yet hp: 504? 18:36:33 wow 18:36:36 death needs a much stronger weapon 18:36:43 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 18:36:47 Death (152) | Spd: 10 | HD: 100 | HP: 500-603 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Dam: 45 | 05demonic, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 18:36:47 %??reaper name:Death hd:100 perm_ench:deaths_door ; scythe plus:27000 plus2:27000 18:36:50 Scythe of Woe 18:37:08 nethack themed sprint with all the fun of instakills 18:37:12 !fight reaper name:Death hd:100 perm_ench:deaths_door ; scythe plus:27000 plus2:27000 v test spawner 18:37:14 also being able to outrun death 18:37:23 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:38 !fight cancel 18:37:43 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 18:37:52 !fight reaper name:Death n_rpl hd:100 perm_ench:deaths_door perm_ench:haste perm_ench:swift ; scythe plus:27000 plus2:27000 v test spawner 18:37:53 death is just too slow to keep up with test spawner 18:38:00 efb :) 18:38:19 tenofswords: That sounds oddly thematic 18:38:24 tenofswords: Until you hit a wall 18:38:25 test spawner (16X) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%) | HD: 1000 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 127/127 | 11non-living, amphibious, regen, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 07acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 1 | Sp: shadow creatures | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 18:38:25 %??Test spawner 18:38:38 clearly death needes the brambles spell 18:38:43 Hahahaha 18:38:45 or blink close other? 18:38:46 I killed a test spawner as a HOPr in wizmode via just dropping a horde of priests 18:38:48 probably still too slow 18:39:06 I love the swimming speed of the test spawner 18:39:07 so much 18:39:09 Smite: good at killing things with high defenses. Who knew? 18:40:09 when it comes to testspawner arena fighting the central things are 1: getting past the horde long enough to establish the 12 monster ring you need to block its summons 2: be actually able to hurt it (smite, starcursed, fire storm, etc) 18:40:28 scythe needs cleave 18:40:43 cleave + reach? 18:40:59 heh 18:41:10 cleave+reach, but can't hit at a distance of 1 18:41:26 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2207-g455e83b: Fix animated weapons of protection/evasion not getting their bonuses. 10(14 hours ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=455e83b55d3c 18:41:28 or can hit one thing at distance one 18:41:38 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:41:56 obviously we need to steal that idea 18:42:04 from 4.1qys-crawl 18:42:07 or maybe switch it around, cleave like axes or reach to hit a single target 18:42:07 lochaber-axes 18:42:11 haha 18:42:41 didn't those once exist in crawl 18:42:43 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:42:52 They still do. They're called bardiches. 18:43:18 ??bardiche 18:43:19 bardiche[1/1]: This polearm is an enormous combination of pike and battle axe. Damage 18, accuracy -6, delay 20, damage type: chopping. Was called lochaber axe in earlier versions. Will always be called lochaber axe in cbus's heart. 18:43:24 -!- Kellhus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:38 %git 8b14a9e 18:43:39 07dolorous * r8b14a9ec9150: Fix [1813286]: Rename the lochaber axe to the bardiche, and change its description accordingly. 10(6 years ago, 7 files, 11+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8b14a9ec9150 18:43:42 it'd be a fixedart, obviously 18:44:02 what, no preceding tag? 18:44:11 * Grunt is reminded of old discussions of a super-reaching unrand. 18:44:15 and polearms should cleave forward 18:44:17 SamB, it means it dates from SVN days. 18:44:28 Zannick: spear of penetration? 18:44:30 they didn't have tags in those days? 18:45:08 It also reminds me of that bug that made all weapons have reaching 18:45:18 Sadly that predated cleaving 18:45:19 spear of longinus 18:45:30 %git e4d1e0a 18:45:31 07kilobyte * 0.11-a0-2513-ge4d1e0a: Fix all weapons having reaching. 10(1 year ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e4d1e0a57321 18:49:12 10 foot pole 18:49:27 base damage 4, but can reach up to 5 squares away 18:49:29 hire me 18:49:44 ultrareachcleave, hits everything in los 18:49:54 -!- Rich_ has quit [Client Quit] 18:50:01 Ozocubu's Coil? 18:50:13 ...or Olgreb's Toxic Radiator <_< 18:50:20 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:49 or a yo-yo 18:50:53 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:51:06 nicolae-: what, despite pillars? 18:51:17 well not counting pillars 18:52:34 would the yo-yo have cleave? 18:52:49 ??sceptre of torment 18:52:49 sceptre of torment[1/1]: +7,+6 (jewelled golden) mace which invokes Torment on 50% of attacks and 1/200 on just being wielded for a given turn. Useful if you have {torment immunity}. Counts as necromancy for the good gods, but if you worship a good god, you are susceptible to torment, so this is going to cause you far worse problems than penance. 18:53:06 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:53:31 all yo-yos have cleave 18:54:31 hmm, normal yo-yo strings get tangled don't they? 18:55:03 yes but that's because most people don't have 27 skill in yo-yos 18:55:04 obviously massive delay 18:55:25 I could have sworn that depended on what you used for string 18:55:43 piano wire yoyo *walks dog, loses three fingers* 18:56:17 I guess you don't have 27 skill either 18:56:39 actually maybe yo-yo would go up to 81 18:56:57 <|amethyst> Are we playing Rygar now? 18:57:33 it's hard to get anything to level 27 irl because you can only get so much xp 18:57:50 The dungeon is large enough; it's just that the travel time is terrible. 18:58:03 just steal some potions of experience 18:58:38 Where can I get those? They seem to be pretty rare. 19:01:19 man, I'm not sharing any with _you_ guys 19:01:20 nicolae-: well, how many people have you killed? That's why you lack xp. 19:01:30 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:01:39 hey, one can get plenty of xp without killing 19:01:42 There are ways to gain xp without killing! 19:01:48 kilobyte: exactly. that's the problem. 19:02:07 grunt: i haven't seen any elyvilon altars or potions of experience around, though 19:02:07 get a job in the judicary system and banish or pacify guys 19:02:10 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:20 I haven't seen many tears of reality around >_> 19:02:55 s/of/in/ 19:03:30 realitysprint, just a bunch of grass with no monsters, if you kill anything bigger than an insect the cops show up 19:03:49 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:04:10 automatically worship zin 19:06:03 nicolae-: summoners clearly trivialize it 19:06:08 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:06:23 Lightli: but you don't get to start with any magic 19:06:25 or learn any 19:06:32 sure you can 19:06:47 permanent suppression? 19:06:57 no, suppression doesn't stop magic from being cast 19:07:12 permanent silence for extra commentary 19:07:46 Pubby's moth of nihilism patch seems fun 19:08:00 ...it's a less threatening silent spectre. 19:08:03 I don't get the point. 19:08:16 Well, doesn't it lower your piety temporarily? 19:08:21 Maybe I didn't look that close 19:08:39 Well I mean to say, it cancels all god effects 19:08:56 Including passive benefits from your god, at least it should do that 19:09:13 It makes you lose the slowness from chei 19:09:25 So it makes you a better character while it's around 19:09:56 I saw that it cancels sanctuary, and chei stat increases, at least 19:11:13 hypothetically at least it doesn't block very many monster threats 19:11:45 moth of _____, if you're in the aura you can't see anything not in the aura 19:11:50 I've wondered if it should block enemy priest abilities, but then I remember what I'm spending time thinking about... 19:11:56 nicolae-: fog moth? <_< 19:12:03 spectre obscura 19:12:09 tenofswords: hahahahaha. 19:12:24 but anyway I dislike this line of thinking for monster gimmickry 19:13:00 late D already just got tengu reavers 19:13:20 in general "moth of tons of special cases all over the entire codebase" does not strike me as a good monster 19:13:25 as is demonstrated by the one we already have 19:13:46 nicolae-: that's like my idea for a monster version of darkness 19:13:55 one of many zig exclusives, alongside silver stars and pearl dragons and 19:14:11 a big LOS black spot, when you go inside you can finally see the darkness caster 19:14:29 mumra: black hole event horizon? 19:14:49 where were my ideas on what demigod skalds would be like... 19:15:51 -!- pelotron_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:08 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:17:13 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:14 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:37 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:18:10 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:01 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:20:40 "titan tier-stats, status of mythical hero paired with storytelling warrior as easy theme, all can cast spectral weapon, spell sets of might/bolt of magma/ring of flames // brilliance/bolt of cold/(passive-freezing-on-block)c. shield // lightning bolt/agility/deflect missiles" 19:23:07 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:56 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 19:23:59 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:27:32 is there an agility/phase shift-equivalent monster spell? 19:27:49 Yes and no. 19:28:04 There is an M_PHASE_SHIFT monster flag. 19:28:47 ...which is mostly cosmetic; the extra EV is included in the base monster definition. 19:28:56 I think only blink frogs and the Enchantress have that set. 19:29:01 ah 19:29:13 Oh, spirit wolves too, apparently. 19:31:49 agility just has to be higher effective hd for accuracy and some proportional ev, brilliance just has to be higher effective hd for spells 19:32:44 -!- drag0n_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:32:47 "higher effective HD for spells" 19:33:03 ...have you seen how many places HD is scattered throughout the monster spell code? 19:33:42 pretend there is sarcasm in the word "just" 19:34:04 If I'm reading things correctly, dimension anchor drops monster melee EV by 8, but does nothing to monster beam EV. 19:34:40 qoala: only if they have M_PHASE_SHIFT! 19:35:15 right. But I mean that beam code seems to ignore most modifiers to monster EV that are in monster::melee_evasion. 19:35:33 ...beam code. 19:35:35 * Grunt shudders. 19:36:13 surely in some future there will be clean-ups 19:37:31 beam.cc:4556 in bolt::affect_monster. random_ev directly accesses mon->ev 19:38:34 I'm not sure whether or not all the modifiers in monster::melee_evasion should be applicable to non-melee attacks, but many of them seem like they should. 19:40:37 -!- myrmidete has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:41:45 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:43:38 -!- qoala has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:42 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:05 I thought clean-ups were a GDB idiosychricity 19:47:57 -!- Nexos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:48:50 huh. petrifying monsters have melee ev 0. 19:54:07 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 19:54:17 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 19:54:43 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:54:45 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:56:48 -!- wHATEver is now known as Guest93213 19:57:20 -!- doome has quit [Ping timeout: 343 seconds] 19:57:25 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:45 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:06 -!- Ragnor has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:59:28 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59:28 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59:28 -!- ground4 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59:29 -!- myp has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59:36 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 20:00:36 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:00:52 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:00:54 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:55 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 20:01:00 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:01:23 -!- sacje has quit [Excess Flood] 20:01:28 -!- Sonderblade has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:02:25 -!- johnstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:02:54 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:30 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:26 -!- rax_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:27 -!- greensna1k has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:04 -!- Ragnor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:08 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:09:39 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:46 -!- djinni_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:10:16 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:10:33 -!- sprort has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:33 -!- heteroy has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:33 -!- paulsomebody has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:33 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:33 -!- herself has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:33 -!- gammafunk has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:33 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- BizmarkRibeye has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- Mattias has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- pythonsnake has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- luukano has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- dosman711 has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- Sizzell has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- Erratic_Magenta has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:34 -!- djinni has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:35 -!- greensnark has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:35 -!- varmin has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:35 -!- _sk has quit [*.net *.split] 20:10:35 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 20:10:39 -!- gammafunk_ is now known as gammafunk 20:11:58 -!- popx has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:12:12 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:17 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:35 -!- rchandra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:36 -!- scummos_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:13:06 -!- greensna1k has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:13:07 -!- Erratic_Magenta_ is now known as Erratic_Magenta 20:13:29 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:13:40 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 20:16:41 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:06 -!- quickPHP has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:19:38 now that the devs are gone, I can say what happens 20:19:51 and then nothing will happen because I can't code and all the devs that could are gone 20:20:06 -!- zardo has quit [Client Quit] 20:21:07 um 20:21:11 the devs are right here Lightli 20:21:18 I'm a dev? 20:21:22 When did that happen? 20:22:05 oh the netsplit ended 20:22:33 ...this is dumb 20:22:55 (https://boards.4chan.org/vg/res/40198790 20:23:10 The more I read it, the more brain damage I suffer 20:25:15 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:25:24 no it just didn't split all that thoroughly 20:26:42 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:27:14 ok 20:28:51 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:29:22 1learn add bad4chan Everything 20:29:32 -!- ibanix has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:29:55 -!- ktgrey has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:05 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:06 -!- Melum_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:31:48 -!- Fhqwhgads__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:32:11 (wouldn't that be redundant with "4chan"?) 20:32:16 hi 20:32:20 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:23 Hi bh. 20:32:46 (actually I'd be tempted to think "bad4chan" meant it was something good...) 20:34:24 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:34:51 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:06 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:35:30 * SamB approves geekosaur's message 20:35:30 so I *think* I can do the OSX build 20:35:33 -!- valrus has quit [Client Quit] 20:35:35 like, I have the technology 20:35:46 We can rebuild it! We have the technology! 20:35:48 hello. here's a extremely-first draft of a fire themed dragon's den layout, thoughts, comments, vitriol? http://pastebin.com/py3URE37 20:35:50 bh: do you have the technology to build it for 68k macs? 20:35:50 but do you have the man to rebuild 20:36:05 -!- eurtek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:36:15 SamB: I have an old 6100/66 I could test on 20:36:29 well, that was a joke 20:36:38 the real question is can you build it for ppc macs 20:36:50 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:29 now I find myself wondering if the old mac mini that's in storage can be resuscitated. (but I'd have to be able to get it out of storage first, and have no idea when that will be possible...) 20:37:58 geekosaur: I've been scouring Craigslist for one 20:38:13 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:31 I have a beat-up old Powerbook around here somewhere. 20:38:55 I used to have an iBook but the hard drive died. the hard drive was the one thing that could not be sanely replaced on an iBook... 20:39:10 geekosaur: can you netboot? :) 20:40:59 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:10 I might have some macintosh apples somewhere 20:42:19 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:44:11 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:55 geekosaur: does your storage only open on eclipses or something? 20:48:07 though actually that would be pretty predictable if you had an almanac 20:48:45 no, storage is out of convenient walking distance and my car has been doing a good impression of a brick for the past couple months. (working on it) 20:49:00 ah 20:50:56 that'd probably be a pretty good business model 20:51:10 geekosaur: It could be worse; it could just be a brick 20:51:18 storage units that you can only access in conjuntion with astronomical events 20:51:28 conjunction even 20:51:46 This portal requires... 20:52:12 superior or inferior conjunction? 20:52:14 (although astronomical events would be more in keeping with that other game) 20:52:26 This portal requires the Orb of Zot to function. 20:52:46 !lm * orb.destroy 20:52:47 15. [2012-05-08 02:42:24] Cheibrodos the Slayer (L27 CeAK) destroyed the Orb of Zot (D:4) 20:52:56 This portal requires the sword Entarex to function. 20:53:11 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:53:58 nicolae-: probably depends on the storage unit access plan you signed up for 20:56:21 so like the VIP plan would let you access it even during the superbowl/world cup/whatever? 20:58:46 Grunt: Did anything actually happen when the orb was destroyed? 20:59:07 !lm * orb.destroy -tv:channel=orbdestroytv 20:59:09 15. Cheibrodos, XL27 CeAK, T:115008 (milestone) requested for orbdestroytv (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 20:59:17 probably a lot of cuss words in the cheibrodos household 20:59:24 This was very, vey delierate. 20:59:27 *deliberate 21:00:06 heh. 21:00:08 A great rumbling fills the air... the Orb of Zot has been destroyed! 21:00:09 Couldn't you use to be able to wield the orb 21:00:33 !lm * orb.destroy -game 21:00:35 Cheibrodos:cdo:20120406031211S. Cheibrodos the Slayer (L27 CeAK), worshipper of Lugonu, took a swim in molten lava in the Abyss on 2012-05-08 02:52:31, with 580505 points after 115179 turns and 9:55:19. 21:00:39 ...heh. 21:01:00 haha, that was chei 21:03:09 "Once the devs removed Paladins, I stopped playing SS." 21:03:13 can Maurice steal the orb? 21:03:25 No. 21:03:39 These days, the Orb can't leave your inventory at all after you've grabbed it. 21:03:41 Too bad, otherwise that would make him crawl's Rodney 21:03:59 I've been meaning to rune-ify the Orb for a while, as soon as I can figure out how best to represent that in the interface. 21:04:11 just put it on the rune screen? 21:04:12 (It would still count as 60 aum even if it's not actually an inventory item.) 21:04:19 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:30 ??carrying capacity 21:04:30 I don't have a page labeled carrying_capacity in my learndb. 21:04:33 ??capacity 21:04:34 I don't have a page labeled capacity in my learndb. 21:04:46 ??aum 21:04:46 aum[1/1]: Arbitrary Unit of Mass. Is exactly as arbitrary as it sounds, and nobody knows exactly how much it is. In old versions you gained 10 aum of carrying capacity per point of strength, since 0.6 you get 30 aum. 21:04:58 ...that's not accurate o_O 21:05:13 I'm about 90% certain it's 25 aum per point of strength these days, with an added baseline. 21:06:13 that sounds more or less right anyway 21:06:31 Question 21:06:41 100 + 2 * body weight + (25 per point of str). 21:07:03 When one is doing the ~ levelport in wizmode, the very last option there is "void" 21:07:27 * SamB wonders why he needs to be able to see a place to target it for digging 21:07:38 SamB: yeah, the VIP plan would certainly cover common astronomic events anyway. Some of them would be sure to have overlap with those sort of events 21:07:59 events such as "day" and "night"? 21:08:11 What's that one about? 21:08:13 -!- Mattias has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:29 placeholder for a removed branch (Hive?) 21:08:37 I know that Forest and Shoals were in the game data long before they were implemented, and that the Dwarven Halls are still in the game even though they pretty much got scrapped 21:09:11 geekosaur is correct; it's there for 0.11 save compatibility purposes. 21:09:13 SamB: quite possibly 21:09:19 (The removed branch is indeed Hive, for the record.) 21:10:30 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 21:10:44 oh 21:12:12 so if there was a save with Hive, would it show as Void there too? 21:12:24 ... probably ...? 21:13:12 * geekosaur was just wondering what would happen if someone found a save file from 0.11 *in* Hive and tried to play it 21:13:42 So here I'm thinking that the scimitar of FLAMING DEATH could use a buff or something. 21:13:55 Hive was axed long before 0.11; the save format just persisted for a long time. 21:13:55 It's definitely not bad, but it's not "Flaming Death". 21:14:11 ??hive 21:14:12 hive[1/1]: Very fun branch that was removed in 0.9. Contained a lot of bees and honeycombs and royal jellies. Watch "!lm bat 1 place=hive:2 -tv:<1:>$" to see what it was like. 21:14:24 !lg * place=hive:4 21:14:25 82. Grivan the Brawler (L14 TrCr), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by a killer bee on Hive:4 on 2009-06-04 21:48:46, with 59443 points after 33840 turns and 6:48:09. 21:14:26 !lg * place=hive:4 x=cv 21:14:27 I want to add some new RC file options. Where's a good place in the code to start looking? 21:14:28 82. [cv=0.4] Grivan the Brawler (L14 TrCr), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by a killer bee on Hive:4 on 2009-06-04 21:48:46, with 59443 points after 33840 turns and 6:48:09. 21:14:40 bh, what kind of options? 21:14:52 Grunt: to force a prompt on reading a scroll with -Scroll 21:14:58 bh, initfile.cc might be a place to start <_< 21:15:03 !lm bat 1 place=hive:2 -tv:<1:>$ 21:15:04 1/2. bat, XL10 SpVM, T:4473 (milestone) requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 21:15:31 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:39 * bh shudders 21:15:41 it's gonna be a while... 21:16:17 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 21:16:50 "very fun" 21:17:04 bh, use :channel IMO <_< 21:17:13 -!- qoala has quit [] 21:18:13 Grunt: every time I think I get crawl, I'm wrong. 21:18:49 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 21:20:57 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 21:21:46 Hi galehar! 21:23:20 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:13 -!- archaeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:27:31 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:31:18 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:35:24 -!- notlainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:32 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 21:37:35 -!- SudoNinja17 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:41:31 -!- tgcid has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:43:56 Grunt: that was surprisingly easy. <3 macros 21:44:01 -!- MaxFrost has quit [] 21:44:17 bh: ? 21:44:27 adding prompts 21:44:29 Oh. 21:46:10 Are you sure you want to accept this prompt? Y/n 21:48:10 lol 21:50:25 what's our max line length? 21:50:42 for what 21:51:03 c++ source 21:51:09 basically 80 21:51:25 -!- dupo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:51:39 no I'm not JUST saying that because that's the size I keep my Emacs windows at 21:51:57 I'm pretty sure we have it in a .txt file, too, and I didn't write it there 21:53:03 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 21:56:09 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 21:57:49 03bh 07[destruction] * 0.13-a0-2158-gf7602ab: Add prompts for -Scroll/-Potion 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 41+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f7602ab20614 21:57:51 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:57:51 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 21:57:51 "Forest anyway seems to be too easy compared to the new vaults and crypt." 21:57:51 first time i've heard that comment 21:57:57 ...what. 21:57:59 o_O 21:58:02 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:23 Grunt: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8533 21:58:26 -!- mumra_ is now known as mumra 21:59:01 * SamB notices that Str/Int/Dex is an acrostic for SID 21:59:07 * SamB likes SID ;-) 21:59:38 SamB: Nancy doesn't 22:00:10 she dislikes the sweet, sweet sound of the C64? 22:00:18 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:02:01 -!- SenoraRaton has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:11 -!- eurtek has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:07:47 so in principle, is anyone opposed to my destruction mod? 22:09:20 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:52 i don't have any problem with how current item destruction works and i definitely don't see how changing it into "you can't use items at all" is particularly great, really 22:11:24 and possibly the current implementation is sort of worse than just "you can't use items" because it's more complicated and needs prompts since trying to use stuff and failing and wasting a turn is so bad 22:12:20 * SamB agrees with MarvinPA 22:12:29 it doesn't *need* a prompt. It has a prompt if you want to set the option in your RC 22:13:11 so you won't mind if we tell the users where you sleep? 22:13:28 well that is an example of it being more complicated than just outright blocking item usage :P 22:14:15 SamB: go for it 22:14:18 (not that i am particularly keen on that variant either, personally) 22:15:05 how about we just destroy the items, then later give them back 22:15:12 how does that sound 22:15:13 'eh? 22:15:27 like teleport items to random locations? 22:16:04 I was thinking the players' feet, after battle 22:16:23 'eh? 22:17:55 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:58 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:49 hey Basil 22:20:18 -!- six40sword has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:33 can't pick just one spice? 22:21:13 -!- Guest93213 is now known as myp 22:23:23 <|amethyst> I hear Thyme likes the herb 22:23:32 just in Thyme? 22:23:36 mumra_: Forest could go into the freaking hells and people would complain it was too twisted 22:23:54 <|amethyst> Parsley Sage Rosemary and Crime 22:23:57 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:46 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:31 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:39:40 Basil really hates item destruction, maybe he'll get around to speaking up 22:46:43 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:47:48 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:47:48 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:50 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:52 huh, I just removed a cursed piece of armor ;-P 22:47:58 !messages 22:47:59 No messages for ontoclasm. 22:48:11 ontoclasm: you could have just said "hi" 22:48:19 and that would have checked if you had any messages 22:48:38 SamB: man i am all about the efficiency 22:48:43 i saved like' 22:48:48 three keystrokes 22:48:53 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:49:00 ...possibly 22:49:00 and now look how much you wasted explaining that 22:49:07 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 22:49:44 -!- Xenobreeder|2 is now known as Xenobreeder 22:50:54 i have to make fire vortices brighter :C 22:51:08 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:51:11 BURN IT ALL DOWN 22:51:25 cup of charity what 22:55:06 FR: Bottle of Bears 22:55:45 Bag of Bears 22:55:52 That idea sounds unbearable. 22:55:56 Basket of Bears! 22:56:04 Bag of Bees :) 22:56:06 Now it's going straight into basket case territory. 22:56:35 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:57:01 I should finish up wand of clouds. Last I poked at it, each cloud it made was of a random type, which is crap 22:58:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:02:07 -!- ahahaha has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:05:52 uck, building crawl on my laptop is horrific 23:05:58 it takes like 20 minutes 23:06:07 how old/underpowered is it? 23:07:20 it's like... 5ish years old 23:07:49 works fine in general, it just hates compiling 23:09:12 make debug-lite -j5 317.84s user 41.43s system 325% cpu 1:50.33 total 23:10:24 i think my desktop at home takes ~3 minutes to do it from scratch 23:11:45 also tiles takes longer to compile, so there :C 23:18:21 my system is >10 years old so there 23:18:34 -!- simmarine_ is now known as simmarine 23:19:49 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:20:06 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:20:29 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:21:13 -!- |amethyst has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:21:31 -!- Sizzell has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:24:29 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:45 -!- anidude has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:49 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:36:27 -!- dickmangler has quit [Client Quit] 23:41:59 bh: Is -j5 a gcc option? 23:44:34 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2207-g455e83b (34) 23:46:18 -!- drag0n_ has quit [Client Quit] 23:46:22 -j5 is a make option. 23:46:25 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:47:00 got it, yeah 23:47:01 It basically boils down to "use five threads" 23:47:02 . 23:47:31 probably I should be using -j2 then with two cores 23:48:09 more like "run 5 commands (not really counting makes)" 23:48:24 some would advise -j3 23:48:25 -j4, since I forgot I have 4 cores 23:48:35 then they would advise -j5 23:48:45 -j27 it is 23:48:56 that's for 26 cores 23:49:14 (by this logic that "some" would use) 23:49:21 it's the number of jobs that must achiee perfection, not the number of cores 23:49:25 *achieve 23:49:58 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:51:53 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:24 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:53:20 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:35 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/nymph.png 23:53:44 i don't know what to think about this thing i have made 23:55:15 -!- tgcid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:33 The pose and the outline are cool 23:56:31 although maybe less of an action pose would be better, come to think of it; don't they also need wings? 23:57:13 do they have wings? 23:57:16 water nymph (06m) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 39-70 | AC/EV: 4/13 | Dam: 16, 011(waterport) | 10items, 10doors, amphibious, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(102), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 864 | Sp: waterstrike | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 23:57:16 %??water nymph 23:57:23 No, they don't. 23:57:34 well they could have wings and not fly with them 23:59:05 <|amethyst> that sounds like bad UI :) 23:59:17 Yeah, it seems that classical images of nymphs tend not to have wings, actually 23:59:36 |amethyst: What about non-flying draconians?