00:01:36 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:05:09 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:43 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:44 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2156-ga9a2eb8 (34) 00:05:59 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2156-ga9a2eb8 (34) 00:07:17 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:33 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:13:17 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2156-ga9a2eb8 (34) 00:13:21 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:18:59 -!- Sky__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:19:18 ??twisted resurrection 00:19:19 twisted resurrection[1/4]: Converts all piles of corpses in LOS into crawling corpses or macabre masses, very weak attackless creatures that can merge to form abominations. Creates 1HD worth of creatures per 60 to 20 aum, depending on spell power (and with half efficiency past 15 HD). Small aboms require 6HD and two corpses, large 11HD and three corpses. 00:19:43 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:21:31 -!- archaeo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:22:58 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:01 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2157-gfb30ef6: Make Polymoth remains mutagenic 10(33 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb30ef67ae1a 00:24:07 -!- lasserith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:24:07 -!- [1]lasserith is now known as lasserith 00:26:26 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:27:33 how can i get build.h to build 00:27:54 have you tried running the line i pasted? 00:28:49 what was it again i restarted computer 00:28:58 perl.exe "util/gen_ver_msvc.pl" build.h 00:30:18 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:32:09 yech. I don't miss windows at all :) 00:33:10 why is that an example of why windows is bad? 00:33:56 'cause you have to run perl! 00:37:05 heh 00:37:42 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 00:37:43 you mean instead of perl running you? 00:38:24 ...in Soviet Crawl Build, perl runs you? 00:39:58 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:40:08 in soviet tiles, the tiles are all 34x34 00:40:33 weird 00:40:38 can anyone check the cszo lobby 00:40:46 and tell me what Game type they see for my GhEE 00:40:56 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:41:32 something to do with wrong imperial -> metric conversions when they were reading the schematics 00:43:15 well, the spoiler is that it shows my game type as 'tut-git' 00:43:32 and unless this game has actually been one incredibly complicated and deceptive tutorial 00:43:36 I'm pretty sure that's wrong 00:44:05 gammafunk: I see that 00:44:17 (tut-git, that is) 00:44:26 rchandra: ok, good to know it's not just my browser 00:44:34 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2157-gfb30ef6 00:44:42 and it's only you among those playing 00:45:18 Maybe |amethyst is messing with me 00:46:33 oh, haha 00:46:37 I see how I did it 00:47:24 !tell |amethyst I'm not sure if you'd consider this a bug, but if I choose T)utorial from the trunk game menu, it starts my saved game instead of the tutorial 00:47:25 gammafunk: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 00:47:54 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Changing host] 00:48:02 !tell |amethyst I only hit 'T' by accident, but my game plays normally, and it shows my game type as 'tut-git' in the crawl lobby 00:48:03 gammafunk: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 00:48:50 -!- Nomi has quit [Quit: Lag] 00:51:25 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:43 -!- archaeo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:53:07 C:\games\roguelikes and like\Crawl-Git\crawl\crawl-ref\source>perl.exe "util/gen _ver_msvc.pl" build.h 'git' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. No Git, and util/release_ver doesn't exist. 00:53:48 seems to be only file i can't get to build 00:54:45 the generate all bat works though 00:54:55 so perl is workinh 00:54:58 so perl is working 00:55:22 -!- st_ has quit [] 00:55:32 Arendeth: It's not finding the git binary 00:57:16 now i reinstall to run from command prompt 00:57:38 reinstalling 00:58:25 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:58:36 think i got that file made 00:58:53 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Changing host] 01:00:23 good think that I'll get both windows 8 and linux when I build I gaming rig next year I'll have the advantage of both 01:00:57 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:01:37 how can I reach this by an irc client? 01:02:12 reach ##crawl-dev? 01:02:14 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Client Quit] 01:02:29 ya 01:02:32 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Changing host] 01:02:40 you just need to join chat.freenode.net 01:02:43 and join the room 01:03:04 probably also register your nick; see freenode for details on that, and it's not required 01:03:07 oh you're using freenode's lame web frontend? 01:03:19 or is it less lame now 01:03:25 It's still pretty lame 01:05:36 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 01:06:27 -!- Arendeth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:13:35 Monsters summoned with rod of swarms can follow player down stairs by ACG 01:14:53 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 01:18:04 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:22:57 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 01:23:16 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:30:37 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:33:31 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:39:55 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:45:32 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:46:23 -!- Arendeth has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:00 still got error or 3 01:47:25 -!- Sizz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:47:31 Error 92 error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _pcre_free C:\games\roguelikes and like\Crawl-Git\crawl\crawl-ref\source\MSVC\pattern.obj crawl 01:51:30 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:45 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 01:59:30 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:07:13 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:10:09 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:13 -!- Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:33:58 -!- Arendeth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:38:06 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:01 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:37 -!- lasserith has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:51:04 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:53:11 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:01:30 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:03:22 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:07:20 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:39 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:43 -!- tolly has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:23:57 -!- qoala has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:23 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 03:27:29 -!- Gastrox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:28:15 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 03:32:12 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:35:49 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: zzz] 03:36:13 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:04 -!- adityarajbhatt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 03:45:29 -!- Daisuki has quit [Client Quit] 03:52:31 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:56:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:41 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Client Quit] 03:57:58 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:08:46 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 04:10:26 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:24:29 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:27 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:34 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:51 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:44:07 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:45:03 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:51:39 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:52:43 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:57 -!- BizmarkRibeye has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:59:16 -!- santiago_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:23 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:00 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:20 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:30 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:12:59 -!- eb has quit [] 05:23:51 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:26:48 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:28:40 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:42:30 Did I hear an idea forming about making summons stronger but with a penatly for them dieing? A mana ddoorish penalty, perhaps? 05:42:34 On the item destruction branch: strikes me as pointless and liable to make the game a little shallower. The effects themselves seem nice for some creatureness though. 05:58:15 I'm pretty sure this is a buff to a weapon-spell combo that doesn't need it, but what if one could reach past a spectral weapon without chance of accidentally hitting it? 05:59:29 I was reasoning that spectral weapon and battlesphere are extensions of the caster and thus shouldn't get in the way for other effects, and realized flavourwise it could be extended to polearms/reaching as well. 06:00:16 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 06:00:40 damage sharing already provides some incentive not to stand behind the weapon, unlike normal summons/allies. 06:01:05 s/accidentally hitting it/"couldn't reach far enough"/ 06:01:33 (you can't accidentally hit allies) I should probably be asleep ;p 06:04:48 -!- halv has quit [Client Quit] 06:09:52 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:17 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:18 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 06:16:42 Moth of Nihilism by pubby 06:21:17 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:26:03 -!- halv has quit [Client Quit] 06:29:18 patman (L13 DrIE) ERROR: range check error (-29 / 17) (D:17) 06:31:26 has there been any decision on dwants or those artefacts I submitted? 06:32:17 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:43:12 Engwar (L14 DrWz) (Lair:8) 06:44:28 nobody online? I never know the best times for IRC 06:47:06 hi 06:49:04 hello friend 06:50:43 friend hi 06:50:53 I just realised you're the pubby I answered at least one Stack Overflow question by 06:50:59 i thought all of your artefacts seemed cool for what it's worth 06:51:32 elliott: yes, I post there. what's your username? 06:52:23 http://stackoverflow.com/users/1097181/ehird 06:53:13 oh! I know you as the really smart haskell guy 06:53:30 (and that's relative to other haskellers as pretty much all of them are smart) 06:53:45 :☺) 06:53:59 hehe, thanks :P 06:55:07 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:28 -!- qoala has quit [] 07:01:13 -!- halv has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:11:00 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:16:58 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: bye] 07:26:34 -!- archaeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:31:44 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:56 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:36:23 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:37:39 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:00 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 07:40:33 elliott: I take it SO is generally better than #haskell? :P 07:40:40 haha 07:41:04 I'm glad I asked 07:43:19 -!- Burer_ has quit [Quit: I'll give myself a bulldog out of winston churchill] 07:43:55 buppy: dwants seemed cool (although 1) I'm not an authority on crawl balance 2) I didn't really think about the implications 3) I have absolutely zero influence on whether anything gets included) 07:46:47 An ant-like race seems cool in itself. 07:47:03 But the concept of dwants was pretty damn terrible. 07:47:08 At least the one I recall. 07:47:56 Bloax: they're actually called formicids instead of dwants now.. if that matters. 07:48:15 Which is why I said that last line. :p 07:48:32 dwants? 07:48:44 dwant >>>> formicid 07:49:16 elliott: sadly, not everyone agreed :( 07:50:20 Eronarn: ask the learndb! (I'm asking you because I have no clue how to work the bots) 07:50:35 buppy: well not everyone agrees on formicid either :P 07:50:48 how about Dwant-Formicids. a compromise. 07:51:01 how about their scientific name is formicidae dwanticus 07:51:31 okay deal 07:51:40 put it in the x-v description 07:52:01 Dwanticids 07:53:48 their description better state that they are formidable 07:54:08 also myrmidons duh 07:54:47 -!- darkflagrance has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:09:42 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:09:58 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 08:14:59 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:09 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:23:01 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:30 -!- mnoqy has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 08:25:58 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:32:45 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:36:07 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2158-gcbca859: Don't use exceptions for short reads. 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cbca8596bb62 08:41:24 -!- blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:47:06 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:21 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:35 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 08:56:43 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:00:57 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:05:18 -!- Kromgart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:47 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:58 -!- Porost has quit [Quit: fgtuhy6YuivghuyYttFgbn] 09:12:39 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:12:48 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 09:18:39 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:25:34 -!- Hailley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:32:07 -!- Porost has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 09:44:42 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 09:44:43 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:45:54 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:56:04 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:56:18 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:57:34 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:59:22 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:00:42 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:01:11 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 10:07:51 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 10:08:28 -!- ZebTM has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:33 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:55 !tell qoala there was some discussion yesterday (me and evilmike specifically) around whether SW actually needed damage sharing, maybe we should figure out exactly if / what it achieves first 10:12:56 mumra: OK, I'll let qoala know. 10:14:08 |amethyst: I'm guessing 6b712aaa may have to do with this? 10:14:14 (this being Sky's problem) 10:16:26 <|amethyst> you.transform_uncancellable is true 10:16:31 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:16:54 o_O 10:17:41 <|amethyst> _You feel yourself come back to life. You feel a surge of divine spite. You miscast Necromutation. You are contaminated with residual magics. You are stuck in your current form! 10:17:45 <|amethyst> _Your body is flooded with distortional energies! 10:18:43 SW? 10:18:50 oh, nm 10:22:02 !tell Nivim that was one of many suggestions about summons i think yes 10:22:03 mumra: OK, I'll let nivim know. 10:22:53 <|amethyst> hm, this case TRAN_PIG: thing in transform() looks suspicious 10:23:35 <|amethyst> it sets you.transform_uncancellable = true even if just_check is true 10:23:39 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:08 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:09 -!- Nexos_ is now known as Nexos 10:28:31 <|amethyst> !tell gammafunk re the tutorial thing, that's in Mantis... it's because crawl puts tutorial and regular saves in the same directory 10:28:32 |amethyst: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 10:29:12 <|amethyst> !tell tenofswords re %git search and a commit in a branch... not sure what the best way to detect that is 10:29:12 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tenofswords know. 10:31:46 <|amethyst> hm, there are other problems with the transform stuff 10:32:22 <|amethyst> You might get prompted "Transforming will reduce your strength to zero. Continue?"; if you say no, you'll get a different form 10:34:41 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:57 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:12 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2159-g170a2ce: Don't set transform_uncancellable when checking pig form. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=170a2cef99fb 10:41:12 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2160-g3de8706: Fix saves with players stuck in their base form. 10(48 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3de87067b41d 10:41:59 -!- ground4 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 10:44:15 -!- archaeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:45:46 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:45 |amethyst: involuntary transformations try hard to not be fatal, but with stat_zero nerfed that much there's little reason to care here 10:47:54 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2160-g3de8706 (34) 10:47:55 it's not fatal, at least 10:48:02 morning 10:48:14 bh: evening! 10:51:38 kilobyte: what side of the item destruction holy war are you on? :) 10:55:04 I don't know. I strongly dislike removing challenges: death is annoying, most games have it non-fatal, people dislike it... But on the other hand, forcing stashing is a good argument. 10:55:36 we can murder the player in other ways! :) 10:55:37 so at this point, I'm not voting for either side 10:56:05 well, but this is one of rare permanent but recoverable losses 10:58:13 <|amethyst> what about the 52-item limite 10:58:18 <|amethyst> s/e$/?/ 10:58:25 <|amethyst> as far as forcing stashing goes 10:58:57 with item destruction gone, the 52 item limit will hurt a lot more 10:59:11 as scrolls are among the lightest items 10:59:49 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:00:02 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 11:00:04 players will still have to stash basically 11:00:41 with weak mages i'm usually thinking more about the weight limit than about actually trying to not carry many consumables anyway 11:01:32 tome has a lot of status effects that block certain abilities while active, it works a lot better than item destruction 11:01:55 item destruction is disproportionately irritating to players, compared to the gameplay benefits 11:02:42 <|amethyst> what to do about jiyva? 11:03:13 presumably jiyva would still block the destruction on use 11:03:17 Eronarn: a lot of players don't actually find irem destruction that irritating 11:03:26 <|amethyst> I mean destruction of floor items? 11:03:29 <|amethyst> s/?// 11:03:35 mumra: a lot do tho 11:04:12 Jiyva only blocks food destruction, I thought 11:04:19 no, all item destruction 11:04:47 I guess I misread the code. The message is "Jiyva protects some of your delectables from destruction." Given that jellies eat everything, I suppose that makes sense 11:04:57 it's there only to make up for being unable to stash 11:05:01 <|amethyst> I mean, if item destruction should be removed because it annoys people, shouldn't jellies stop eating items because that annoys people? 11:05:23 <|amethyst> and if that happens, what's the point of jiyva 11:05:25 huh? that makes no sense 11:05:28 |amethyst: stuff like jelly drop should be removed :) 11:05:35 |amethyst: no. They're different cases 11:05:37 Eronarn: why? 11:05:49 If a Jelly eats an item, it's because you didn't kill it 11:05:53 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:06:01 <|amethyst> or because it spawned 11:06:03 If an orc wizard incinerates your scroll of acquirement, it's because you were a dope 11:06:08 |amethyst: not on Lair:2 11:06:12 <|amethyst> err 11:06:15 kilobyte: non-local monsters doing harmful things to you sucks, in crawl's context 11:06:30 <|amethyst> bh: I thought we wanted to discourage stashing? 11:06:50 <|amethyst> and "stash on Lair:2" is quite spoilery 11:07:13 "stash on the floor" isn't very spoilery and is just as good 11:07:32 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: but people don't do that because "what if a jelly comes by" 11:07:35 jellies, wandering monsters 11:07:36 bh: jellies eat items on floors other than Lair:2 11:07:51 <|amethyst> someone was complaining just a week ago about a jelly getting into their Lair:1 stash 11:08:17 Why don't jellies spawn on lair:2 btw? 11:08:26 kryft: so that you can stash there! 11:08:26 wands, potions, weapons, armour, throwables, some scrolls, jewelry, rods, ... 11:08:29 <|amethyst> kryft: because they're not a lair monster 11:08:42 kryft: on Lair:1 they can come down the stairs from D 11:09:02 Oh, ok, so actually it's lair:x where x>1 11:09:19 <|amethyst> kryft: >1 and < wherever the Slime entrance is 11:09:27 Right, of course 11:09:31 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:35 -!- dcss29681 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:35 != the Slime entrance actually 11:09:42 <|amethyst> yeah 11:09:48 -!- bh_ has quit [Client Quit] 11:09:57 mumra: So can they come down the stairs while you're not on lair:1 11:10:17 <|amethyst> kryft: "coming down the stairs" really means "random spawn from the previous level" 11:10:19 also not the Shoals / Snake entry, as item-using monsters can loot it 11:10:33 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:47 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:48 kryft: no, monsters don't get to act when you're not on the level 11:10:51 -!- bh has quit [] 11:10:55 <|amethyst> otherwise things can only take stairs when they follow you 11:10:55 All right 11:10:59 -!- bh_ is now known as bh 11:11:06 hrm 11:11:10 there we go. 11:11:11 I guess that explains why it's pretty unlikely to get your stash eaten by a jelly on lair:1 11:11:30 <|amethyst> yeah, you'd have to have a jelly spawn at the stairs and then wander over to your stash 11:11:39 it's pretty unlikely to get your stash eaten on any floor if you put it near some upstairs 11:11:43 <|amethyst> probably even less likely now that there's only one stair 11:11:48 most folks put the stash right on the stairs 11:11:55 since you'll never spend more turns on that floor than you're at your stash 11:12:28 <|amethyst> mumra: what if you're coming at it from below? 11:12:32 oh. I did find a small stairs bug. If you worship Fedhas, spawn an Oklob on some stairs. Then traverse the stairs into the level. The oklob gets shoved 11:12:36 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:45 <|amethyst> is that a bug? 11:13:00 |amethyst: put it on the downstairs of course 11:13:18 bh: Can also happen with plants randomly spawning on stairs. 11:13:26 I *think* it's a bug. Fedhasites can occupy the same square 11:13:30 <|amethyst> ahh 11:13:30 At least it used to, guess some of that stuff was changed. 11:13:34 bh: Oh right. 11:14:33 <|amethyst> the random spawn bit might be more difficult to handle than the deliberately-placed oklob case 11:14:42 <|amethyst> since in the former case the plant might not be friendly yet 11:15:34 What's the point of converting plants and slimes when you see them? To stop them from fighting things off screen? 11:15:55 -!- Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:01 sounds like a sensible reason 11:17:04 it's nice flavour too 11:17:12 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:17:12 it's problematic with holies 11:17:18 it would be nice if we could make it not interrupt travel 11:18:08 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:29:00 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:49 -!- Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:39:41 kilobyte, is there any decision on getting dwant species into trunk? everything you brought up on mantis has been fixed 11:40:32 Moth of Nihilism: Blocks all god effects. Ugh! 11:40:53 silence almost does this already, and its good enough 11:41:01 pretty soon players will be begging for a scroll of genocide moths 11:41:03 <|amethyst> kilobyte: since I don't think you were around for the discussion yesterday: what do you think about allowing summons to attack out of LOS again (but possibly having them expire more quickly) 11:41:52 |amethyst: That sounds like an improvement over the current state of affairs 11:41:56 instead of tweaking the expiration, they could also do less damage or become weaker as their distance out of los increases 11:42:11 the problem with increasing expiration time, is some spells are super short, others last a long time 11:42:35 overall though, the AI for temporary summons needs to be better with this rule too 11:42:48 expiring summons out of LOS has a few (possibly interesting) consequences: los-blocking clouds can suddenly decimate your allies; and moving around certain types of layout can put them out of LOS as well 11:43:40 what about a combination of LOS and distance? 11:43:51 when I say LOS I mean LOS radius 11:44:03 you can fire conj spells through clouds, and this is fine 11:44:16 but not thru architecture 11:44:27 you can bounce a lightning bolt 11:44:33 currently if you go round a corner and this puts your summons out of LOS, they won't attack things 11:45:02 becoming useless because it stepped around a pillar sucks though 11:45:36 but you're right that corners etc could be abused 11:45:36 it makes total sense that "if you can't see it you can't control it" 11:46:00 well it should still ignore clouds and temporary stuff like that, I think 11:46:06 as far as i'm aware, the LOS changes had very little to do with balance anyway 11:46:20 it's more about making sure that interesting things are happening where you can see them 11:46:42 and the summons cap doesn't solve that situation for LOS 11:46:46 that was part of it, but it was a massive balance change 11:47:23 I'm going to assume balance was meant to be affected. If that's an unintended side effect, it was a huge one 11:47:30 <|amethyst> why weren't permanent allies affected? 11:47:49 it was fixing a particular bit of brokenness but i don't know if balance was changed all that much by it 11:47:53 <|amethyst> seems like only stopping summons from attacking out of LOS was an explicit summoning balance nerf 11:48:12 perma-allies are harder to get, tend to be tied to other resources 11:48:19 I think that's why 11:48:19 ok well the reason "it was to stop interesting things happening where you can't see them" was referenced many times 11:49:03 ...what if summons gave you detection within LOS? 11:49:39 <|amethyst> evilmike: I don't know about harder: one class starts with them 11:50:24 basically i think it's good that you can always see what your summons are doing, if they're doing anything interesting; so i would rather keep that but tweak their power and usefulness if it needs a buff 11:50:33 so, suppose your LOS is blocked by a cloud, but your summon can see something that's in _your_ LOS radius, allow you to detect it? That could reduce grousing about the summoning nerf 11:50:52 |amethyst: they are harder in that you can't exactly pull them up on demand. They're either gifts, or you convert monsters to your side, or they cost piety 11:50:54 Dragon: Hey Boss, I'm killing something over here, a little help! 11:51:01 Or they require corpses 11:51:58 <|amethyst> but what does that have to do with interesting things you can't see? 11:52:07 bh: if we're going with "summoning is some kind of mind link with the summon", maybe seeing through their eyes is justifiable 11:52:24 <|amethyst> I'm just wondering what are the real reasons for the LOS nerf and what are the reasons we tell players to make them stop complaining 11:52:25 mumra: I don't think it matters. While I think it's a huge balance-related issue, my complaint is just that it's an unfun game mechanic 11:52:28 mumra: extending LOS would be way bad 11:52:48 bh: only within your LOS radius 11:52:55 bh: but where blocked by clouds or geometry 11:53:11 bh: which is what i thought you were saying 11:53:14 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:18 some weird thing where you can see what your summons see wouldn't help this either 11:53:20 <+bh> Moth of Nihilism: Blocks all god effects. Ugh! 11:53:22 please, yes 11:53:36 something with this effect would be great 11:53:40 yep, but detection rather than actual viewing, since it might be confusing "Your Dragon can see it, but you can't shoot it" 11:53:59 why would you want to shoot it if you have summon dragon? 11:54:04 <|amethyst> Eronarn: would also be a pain to implement 11:54:13 bh: well i was thinking just the immediately adjacent squares, maybe for only 1 specific summon type 11:54:15 and we already have silent spectres 11:54:24 It's not even about being able to see stuff, it's about summons becoming brain-dead at a certain distance, and the AI doesn't compensate for this, so it's annoying to manage 11:54:35 |amethyst: hasn't stopped suppression 11:54:37 I think this whole "it's more interesting the way it is now" justification is weak 11:54:40 Eronarn, |amethyst: is the joke that theres a patch on mantis for it 11:54:44 |amethyst: buppy implemented it, and it was a pain by the looks of it, it's an 85k patch 11:54:49 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:51 <|amethyst> oh 11:54:54 buppy is my new hero 11:54:57 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 11:55:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:55:18 speaking of patches, how are lorcs going? 11:55:28 evilmike: things dying where you can't see them is uninteresting, do you disagree with this? 11:55:47 yes 11:55:52 Eronarn: well mine is going like this: 11:55:57 !lm . 11:55:57 1163. [2013-06-30 03:29:17] SamB the Axe Maniac (L17 LOBe) left the Swamp on turn 39268. (Swamp:1) 11:56:00 Here's what I do agree with: things dying when you can't see them is SOMETIMES uninteresting 11:56:10 SamB: i mean more like how is their balance, do people like them, are they fun 11:56:30 !lm . x=runes 11:56:31 No milestones for SamB. 11:56:36 !lm . rune 11:56:37 1. [2013-06-30 03:25:24] SamB the Axe Maniac (L17 LOBe) found a gossamer rune of Zot on turn 39071. (Spider:5) 11:57:17 <|amethyst> mumra: I think the bigger thing is "with no risk to the player" more than "where you can't see them" 11:57:20 the balance is not too great I suppose, but I'm so lousy that makes it more fun for me 11:57:21 if your summon is way across the other side of the level (bonus points if you abused disperal), it's uninteresting. If it's just a few spaces off screen and engaged with a monster that you were fighting, then I have no issue 11:57:36 Eronarn: Lava orcs? I see lots of people playing them and having fun, but many consider their aptitudes too strong and their heat mechanic way too abusable 11:57:37 Now, even if it's a few spaces out of view, it's abusable. But this is an AI problem 11:57:44 and making summons less fun to paper over some AI issue is a bad idea 11:57:47 mumra: it's not fun when it's *YOUR* things dying where you can't see them either 11:58:18 buppy: i have considered dropping their melee apts below hill orcs but people would scream murder... 11:58:29 the problem is, if it's allowed even just a little bit, it's always optimal to engineer things so this happens 11:58:32 IMO what summons need is to be more like transmutations. each summon spell should actually be usable in different situations 11:58:39 there is a patch for the heat thing, but nobody's even tried it out afaik :( 11:59:10 buppy: tmut isn't a great example of a school things should be more like 11:59:53 imo what summons need is to play more like tower defense and less like 555555555555 11:59:56 buppy: yes, i've been trying to think about summons that would have more varied usage, and there was some really good brainstorming here yesterday 12:00:24 at the very least, summons should NOT be sitting ducks against enemies out of LoS 12:00:38 they should, like, try to pull the enemies in 12:00:49 i think the right approach is to make them MP investments rather than delayed effect conj spells 12:00:52 they should retreat towards you or something yeah 12:00:55 they should try to run towards you as quickly as possible to get with LOS 12:00:57 yeah 12:01:02 and what about ranged enemies 12:01:11 I guess fleeing isn't enough, there'd need to be a new behaviour that pathfinds towards the player 12:01:30 mumra: any ideas that stuck out? 12:01:30 SamB: what about ranged enemies? 12:01:31 -!- Nexos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:01:35 SamB: ta 12:01:42 evilmike: it'd be cool to have a magical tether than shows the fastest route between your summon and you, and vice versa 12:01:52 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:52 Eronarn: sounds ugly 12:01:57 well it seems like they're a problem even if your summon is right next to you and has a ranged attack 12:02:08 if ranged enemies are shooting at your summons, and your summons are unable to retaliate, then they should retreat to safety, I guess 12:02:21 mumra: just halofloor? i think that'd be fine 12:02:25 i don't understand 12:02:31 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:02:42 SamB: can't you just tell your summon to attack? or get closer to the ranged enemy yourself? 12:02:43 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 12:02:51 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:02:55 Eronarn: what if there are other halos 12:03:09 mumra: this is the problem with all halos, yes 12:03:11 <|amethyst> I could see a key to show that 12:03:12 mumra: I suppose you could sometimes move in 12:03:20 <|amethyst> but not having it active all the time 12:03:32 but you unfortunately can't make your summon attack something you can't see 12:03:33 Eronarn: i don't know if covering the screen in halos every time you have summons out would be a good thing 12:03:44 that's because it's an insanely bad idea 12:03:48 SamB: no, so you have to get where you can see it 12:03:48 mumra: that would be a bad thing 12:03:52 how did you not know it would be 12:04:00 mumra: and that seems like a problem 12:04:06 SamB: i was being tactful 12:04:08 a key would be fine 12:04:27 SamB: so you mean when something ranged is attacking your summon but not you? 12:04:30 just run away... 12:04:34 of course, if no summons have ranged attacks anyway it's no big deal 12:04:43 and there is a 't' command to tell your summons to retreat 12:04:54 our one level 9 summon spell has ranged attacks 12:05:00 don't they go a bit far though when you do that? 12:05:06 <|amethyst> level 2 summon has ranged attacks 12:05:14 yeah that too :P 12:05:17 hmm 12:05:36 more ranged summons is a good idea 12:05:53 anyway sure: the AI could make them move away from the attacker, if they can't see it to attack it themselves 12:05:55 I think it would be okay to let summons attack one cell beyond LoS? 12:06:04 ranged only, possibly 12:06:18 I odn't know 12:06:24 <|amethyst> BTW, I thought of a fatal flaw with my "summon self illusion" idea... your self-illusion is almost certain to be a summoner 12:06:35 <|amethyst> so it just turns into cap-avoiding summon spam 12:06:44 |amethyst: this is why it should be a tmut 'clone self' spell instead :) 12:06:45 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:03 SamB: i thought we were trying to eliminate ways of killing things outside LOS (e.g. cloud nerf) 12:07:30 I guess the "run out of LoS of things the player can't see" idea works too 12:07:34 <|amethyst> one big reason for the cloud nerf is that monster are kind of stupid when it comes to LOS clouds 12:07:39 <|amethyst> err 12:07:43 <|amethyst> out-of-LOS clouds 12:08:15 the main reason stationary monsters are bad is because there are a (very small now) number of ways to abuse LOS to kill them 12:08:55 <|amethyst> mumra: well, even ignoring that, they also have to have a summon, max-range conjuration, or blink other close 12:08:59 but LCS was nerfed to prevent kills outside LOS too 12:09:07 and i'm sure other stuff 12:09:12 <|amethyst> lightning bolt was not 12:09:25 LCS? Or LRD? 12:09:36 sorry LRD yeah 12:09:39 <|amethyst> well 12:09:44 oh, does LRD respect wall surfaces now or something 12:09:47 lightning bolt _was_ nerfed 12:09:49 <|amethyst> "on the other side of a wall" and "out of LOS" are different things 12:09:51 it use to bounce more 12:10:15 <|amethyst> mumra: that affected in-LOS things more 12:10:18 |amethyst: but "on the other side of a wall" is the same with summons too 12:10:47 does scrying have any effect on summon behavior? 12:10:50 |amethyst: i'm pretty sure one of the reasons for lightning nerf was also due to out-of-LOS stuff too (but it was a long while ago now) 12:11:03 ps: please make monster summons work like this too 12:11:14 <|amethyst> %git 058394c 12:11:14 07kilobyte * 0.9-a1-867-g058394c: Kludge beams to never hit the same person more than twice. 10(2 years ago, 2 files, 17+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=058394ca084f 12:11:31 |amethyst> so it just turns into cap-avoiding summon spam 12:11:32 nice 12:11:36 thats like a boggart bomb 12:12:19 what was that quote in relation to? 12:12:29 <|amethyst> mumra: summon self illusion 12:12:39 haha 12:12:40 btw, the cloud nerf isn't actually in trunk yet, right? 12:12:41 <|amethyst> I once got a blue death that cast shadow creatures and got a boggart 12:12:50 cloud nerf isn't coded yet no 12:12:52 because the idea wasn't to COMPLETELY prevetn clouds out of LOS, just to weaken them 12:12:59 I think the proposal is to make them disappear faster 12:13:10 <|amethyst> hm 12:13:18 or maybe they won't spread as much out of your vision, but they can still exist for a bit still 12:13:36 <|amethyst> this is intended primarily for fcloud/pcloud/fire storm, right? 12:13:47 yeah i think it was to dissipate them quickly 12:13:51 <|amethyst> because it also reduces the saftey buffer from conjure flames 12:13:59 they should disappear pretty fast otherwise it's kinda pointless 12:13:59 <|amethyst> s/ftey/fety/ 12:14:18 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:14:26 if you can still kite something through poison while keeping it out of los then the change doesn't achieve anything 12:14:34 <|amethyst> e.g. it would be difficult for a slow character to use CF to get away from an orc priest 12:14:50 they were supposed to disappear quickly, yeah 12:14:59 just not magically disappear instantly 12:15:08 so you couldn't just step back, step forward to somehow remove a cloud 12:15:46 <|amethyst> would this be all clouds, or player-created ones? 12:16:25 <|amethyst> and do player-started forest fires count as player-created? 12:16:34 <|amethyst> (after they spread) 12:16:46 sounds like it might be simpler to just track magical clouds from actors 12:16:56 <|amethyst> we do track actors I think 12:17:04 oh right, for determining killers 12:17:34 <|amethyst> We keep a kill_category, killer_type, and mid_t 12:17:48 ??mid_t 12:17:49 I don't have a page labeled mid_t in my learndb. 12:17:59 <|amethyst> bh: globally unique monster ID 12:18:36 <|amethyst> bh: (unlike mindex, which is only unique at a given point in time on a given floor) 12:18:38 gotcha. Seems like it should be straight forward to ask if a cloud is visible to its creator and make it decay faster if it isn't 12:18:39 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:18:43 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 12:18:59 <|amethyst> not sure if that's a good idea 12:19:10 <|amethyst> e.g. steam dragons 12:19:35 <|amethyst> I guess that's the only attack cloud that blocks LOS? 12:20:18 and in the worst case, it'll just blast you again! 12:20:31 <|amethyst> oh, catoblepas breath too 12:20:43 <|amethyst> and holy flames 12:24:23 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:26:52 clouds pose the biggest problem for diffusion pathfinding, since you need to run a search for every cloud type because mobs have different resists 12:27:09 |amethyst: the idea was just for player spells btw 12:27:59 monsters really don't matter here, they should ignore these rules 12:29:37 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5548 12:30:17 as you can see the proposal isn't that fancy. if you want to go ahead with it, i'd keep it simple like it is here 12:31:17 i also dont think the "move clouds" bit is necessary there 12:31:30 <|amethyst> evilmike: player s*spells* specifically? 12:31:40 <|amethyst> evilmike: because forest fires are still an issue 12:31:41 the proposal was only for poison cloud and freezing cloud 12:31:59 <|amethyst> evilmike: granted, there are monster spells to somewhat mitigate that problem 12:32:12 forest fires are harder to control and you have a finite number of trees. i dont feel like they are THAT abusable inherently 12:32:43 -!- anidude has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:46 <|amethyst> the enchanted forest lair end is kind of trivializable if you have a level 3 spell 12:32:54 but note the proposal doesn't cover conjure flame, or fog scrolls, or draconian steam breath, that was intentional 12:33:28 hm, well, I think it's just a problem with forest fires themselves. I wouldn't like it if the fire magically depends on anything to do with you 12:33:38 it's a forest fire, it spreads on its own 12:33:43 <|amethyst> I agree with that 12:34:04 <|amethyst> maybe that lair end just needs to get a monster with (what was the spell name?) 12:34:09 <|amethyst> control winds? 12:34:15 that new? never seen it 12:34:29 spriggan air mage 12:34:36 spriggan air mage (11i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 14 | HP: 32-52 | AC/EV: 1/25 | Dam: 16 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, lev, DMsl | Res: 06magic(130), 10elec++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1467 | Sp: airstrike (0-38), b.lightning (3d19), control winds, shock (d16) | Sz: little | Int: high. 12:34:36 <|amethyst> %??spriggan air mage 12:34:55 <|amethyst> well, that might be a little tough for Lair:$, but maybe give it to the young druids? 12:36:06 <|amethyst> oh hey 12:36:15 <|amethyst> 5548 proposes that spell :) 12:36:21 <|amethyst> also giving it to elves 12:36:59 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:37:35 yes, one of the elves should get it too 12:37:48 it's not all that flavorful for underground elves 12:37:56 what about a different spell that also protects against clouds 12:38:22 <|amethyst> eh, deep elves don't exactly suck at air magic 12:38:25 what's wrong with gassing elf:3? It's fun 12:38:38 |amethyst: they're good at pretty much all magic though 12:38:44 !apt de 12:38:45 DE: Fighting: -2*, Short: 0, Long: -1, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: 0, Slings: -2, Bows: 1, Xbows: -1, Throw: 1, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 3, Stab: 1, Shields: -2, Traps: 0, UC: -2*, Splcast: 3!, Conj: 1, Hexes: 3, Charms: 4!, Summ: 1, Nec: 2!, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: 1, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 2, Exp: -1, HP: -2, MP: 3! 12:38:46 it's a gas, you might say 12:38:50 I always thought the whole point of elf was to toss a bunch of glass cannons at you, and let you figure out the best way to kill them 12:39:01 <|amethyst> !apt sp air 12:39:01 one of the common endings even gives you a moat 12:39:02 Sp (SK_AIR_MAGIC)=-1 12:39:05 <|amethyst> !apt de air 12:39:06 DE (SK_AIR_MAGIC)=0 12:39:12 Which should only really say that Elf should be a rainbow branch of whatsgoingon. 12:39:37 crawl has a distinct lack of rainbow spells 12:39:46 <|amethyst> Eronarn: there's one now! 12:39:59 evilmike: it wouldn't make clouds ineffective against them, and the challenge becomes to kill the dudes that cast control winds first 12:40:36 |amethyst: which one? 12:40:43 <|amethyst> Fulminant Prism 12:40:56 oh right, yeah 12:41:12 it doesn't look very rainbow-like in tiles tho ;P 12:41:19 <|amethyst> I mean, I guess it's not explicitly rainbow-flavoured 12:41:26 <|amethyst> but it has "prism" right in the name :) 12:41:33 <|amethyst> maybe the explosion could be rainbow 12:41:55 or it could send out little 1-tile dazzlnig rainbow rays while its charging up 12:42:15 <|amethyst> dazzling spray could be rainbow-coloured too :) 12:42:46 rename conjurer "rainbow warrior", reflavour all spells 12:43:09 <|amethyst> mumra: give them Enslavement too 12:43:13 <|amethyst> Care Bear Stare! 12:43:20 haha 12:44:26 Couldn't the trees in forest just be made into magical, 'unburnable' trees? Or at least trees where the fire didn't spread nearly as well 12:44:27 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:44:30 jump -> gummiberry juice 12:44:31 !messages 12:44:32 (1/1) |amethyst said (2h 16m 1s ago): re the tutorial thing, that's in Mantis... it's because crawl puts tutorial and regular saves in the same directory 12:44:33 <|amethyst> it even fits their second scool 12:44:46 <|amethyst> gammafunk: if anything that makes more sense in Swamp 12:44:59 <|amethyst> since there the roots are waterlogged 12:45:24 |amethyst: I see that too, but if the aim is prevent forest fire abuse, we don't need much justification other than MAGIC! 12:45:35 spriggan firefighters 12:45:38 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:58 <|amethyst> we were just talking about those 12:45:59 bh: Like keystone kops? 12:46:09 spriggan air mage (11i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 14 | HP: 32-52 | AC/EV: 1/25 | Dam: 16 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, lev, DMsl | Res: 06magic(130), 10elec++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1467 | Sp: airstrike (0-38), b.lightning (3d19), control winds, shock (d16) | Sz: little | Int: high. 12:46:09 <|amethyst> %??spriggan air mage 12:46:14 They just appear if you start a forest fire, hit you with cream pies 12:46:15 keystone kaptains 12:46:21 apocalypse crabs already shoot ranbows at you 12:46:35 <|amethyst> BTW, is it possible with lua and map markers to make a single tree that can't burn 12:46:51 !lg * ckiller=apocalypse_crab 12:46:52 52. scummos the Cleaver (L8 LOAK), worshipper of Lugonu, slain by an apocalypse crab (summoned by Lugonu's corruption) on D:7 on 2013-06-30 16:48:33, with 1937 points after 6264 turns and 0:13:35. 12:46:55 <|amethyst> because a permatree with a 1-square flame generator would be a cool flavour vault for somewhere 12:46:56 !lg * ckiller=apocalypse_crab max=xl 12:46:57 52. coolrobin the Slayer (L24 MiEn), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by an apocalypse crab on Abyss:2 on 2013-04-16 11:40:51, with 474945 points after 55816 turns and 3:26:32. 12:47:23 |amethyst: 12:47:25 ??burning bush 12:47:26 burning bush[1/1]: Bush that throws flame, in Zot defence. Sees invisible. Also in sprint IV. Also in a Zot stairs vault. 12:47:42 <|amethyst> yeah, but those attack you :) 12:48:48 <|amethyst> btw, now that treants are in that means we can implement deep elm fire elementalists without making them immobile 12:49:02 did cleaving get nerfed recently? meatsprint feels harder 12:49:19 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:49:32 <|amethyst> no 12:49:59 <|amethyst> maybe the monster turn-taking behaviour? though I wouldn't think that would be very noticeable 12:51:27 |amethyst: deep……elm? 12:51:38 meatsprint is so start scummy. Depending on where the monsters spawn you can memorize blink and/or passage of golubria 12:51:55 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, a race of spellcasting trees led by the ancient wizard Elmminster 12:52:42 <|amethyst> gammafunk: (Elms were a fake player race on badwiki) 12:53:02 They're fake? 12:53:08 Did someone actually proposed a species called 'Elms' 12:53:15 <|amethyst> they're not there anymore either 12:53:23