00:05:39 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2116-g5cefd36 (34) 00:05:54 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2116-g5cefd36 (34) 00:08:16 okay this ?: looks a bit oddly colored 00:12:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:13:43 I got some muts, and only the second line of the two-line message for each is colored purple 00:14:47 -!- snwl has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 00:16:08 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:16:13 evening 00:16:24 -!- bh_ is now known as bh 00:17:32 !seen mumra 00:17:33 bh: You have 10 messages. Use !messages to read them. 00:17:33 I last saw mumra at Thu Jun 27 04:25:17 2013 UTC (52m 15s ago) saying 's/Intra/Infra' on ##crawl-dev. 00:17:36 good god. 00:17:41 I must have done something bad 00:17:41 hi 00:17:42 !messages 00:17:43 (1/10) mumra said (21h 36m 16s ago): new_mclass = mons_species(new_mclass); 00:17:45 !messages 00:17:45 haha 00:17:46 (1/9) mumra said (21h 21m 6s ago): random_monster_at_grid(mons->pos(), true) only ever returned a species ... so the broken check for M_UNIQUE was completely moot anyway 00:17:53 !messages 00:17:55 (1/8) mumra said (21h 13m 40s ago): i assume the dollar is in the mail 00:17:57 !messages 00:17:58 (1/7) mumra said (21h 9m 35s ago): dfd7434 and 6e1df92 btw 00:18:00 !messages 00:18:01 (1/6) mumra said (21h 3m 15s ago): polymoth seems to do precisely nothing in V 00:18:03 !messages 00:18:03 (1/5) mumra said (21h 2m 38s ago): ... in V:5 now i meant to say, but it's pretty good / terrifying in Lair. it maybe doesn't use the ability often enough though. 00:18:09 !messages 00:18:10 (1/4) mumra said (20h 56m 33s ago): also maybe each monster should only be upgradeable once ... and probably it shouldn't upgrade monsters you can't actually see 00:18:13 !messages 00:18:14 (1/3) mumra said (13h 31s ago): I had to revert 6e1df92 because I misunderstood the functiona and it broke normal polymorph working on uniques. Not sure how best to sort out the mess that is _valid_morph, maybe you should look at this, at least you know where the problem is now! 00:18:21 !messages 00:18:22 (1/2) ChrisOelmueller said (7h 10m 53s ago): can you please just stop coding monsters for a bit, thanks (by a bit i mean several years) 00:18:26 !messages 00:18:27 (1/1) |amethyst said (4h 51m 25s ago): any clue about #7238? it seems to be related to WorleyLayout, see https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=4775&type=bug 00:19:45 hrmph. that's a tougher nut 00:20:02 mumra: does it do the right thing or should I poke at it? 00:20:16 bh: does what do the right thing? 00:20:35 i haven't fixed anything since that less message 00:20:39 ok 00:20:57 basically my fix didn't actually work and i had to revert the change because it broke polymorph 00:21:05 although my other fix was good 00:21:21 (you accidentally broke normal polymorph too) 00:21:26 oops. 00:21:32 it was an extremely rare case 00:21:32 mumra: Would you prefer 60p to $1? 00:21:35 haha 00:21:59 I should be able to pay you by standing order or something 00:22:00 bh. 00:22:13 %git HEAD^{/GENUS} 00:22:14 07Grunt * 0.13-a0-2113-gf055fc9: RANDOM_SAME_GENUS polymorph fixes. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 9+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f055fc93129b 00:22:24 Grunt++; 00:22:24 ohhhh 00:22:25 i missed that 00:22:31 damn, grunt gets the dollar 00:22:51 Good thing I checked in before going to sleep :b 00:23:10 bh: btw, please code a chrismoth, maybe it could be an xmas special ;) 00:23:33 Grunt: I owe you a loonie. 00:23:47 Donald-style speech lines for everything? 00:23:48 what would it do? gripe about the latest changes? 00:24:00 SamB: hahahahaha. 00:24:16 with regards to polymorphing to priests, I don't think we need to prohibit it generally, but perhaps only allow things with gods 00:27:16 mumra: If we make it only polymorph stuff once, we could enable polymorphing firewood 00:28:03 What does the former have to do with the latter here? 00:28:44 it would reduce the horrorshow chance? 00:28:59 Are there any weak hostile plant types? 00:29:06 Well, wandering mushrooms 00:31:30 (Ever played an early game Fedhasite? >_>) 00:32:10 I meant by the time one would presumably be running into this thing 00:32:22 Which would be a whole lot later 00:32:39 (Also, the player can choose not to walk next to the mushroom, unless the AI :P) 00:32:46 s/unless/unlike 00:33:27 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:34 hrm. we don't flag monsters who get morphed? 00:36:04 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:38 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:37:14 bh: this is probably why the code gets into a mess when it comes to dealing with uniques who have been poly'd 00:38:18 well. we only have 35 monster flags. 00:41:17 DracoOmega, Grunt: On Discord; what if you guys put off deciding a spell level for it by making it an evocable? 00:42:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:37 Grunt: Also, if Xom gets it, what would you think of an opposite effect as well? 00:44:08 Harmony? 00:44:18 are these supposed to be Skald things 00:45:03 enhancer for skald spells is actually a ukelele 00:48:09 SamB: I was just thinking of something that stopped all attacking for a few turns. Xom only. 00:48:12 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 00:48:40 Nivim: i'm not quite sure if it's right for an evokable, the best i can think of is "mask of madness" - sends all who gaze on it insane for a time; if you're invisible it only works on monsters with sinv 00:48:52 but that could be kind of dumb 00:48:53 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:49:00 that does sound kind of dumb 00:49:01 maybe a card effect would work better 00:49:17 SamB1: Actually, it's more like Xom mocking Elyvilon, so Ely could have it too. 00:49:38 mumra: Yeah, I was thinking of just an e[v]oke effect much like the spell. 00:49:50 Nivim: yes, that's what i described 00:50:04 but you have to have something to evoke, right? 00:50:04 mumra: As a gaze attack mask? 00:50:10 a mask that you evoke yes 00:50:14 Ah. 00:50:16 not one that you wear 00:50:18 does it come on a little stick 00:50:28 well, you briefly wear it to evoke it, but the interface is still 'v' 00:50:31 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:34 (i did conclude it was dumb) 00:50:43 Very good. 00:51:06 I like the flavour but it still sounds kind of strange 00:51:09 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 00:51:11 I would prefer a flask of congealed Trog, personally. 00:51:24 hmm 00:51:51 is that what happens when you take a potion of berserk range and wait until the end of the world 00:52:25 maybe it's when you make trog cry and collect his tears 00:52:34 Angry, angry tears. 00:52:44 are those tears also known as deep trolls 00:52:48 which try to kill you 00:52:58 Flask of Deep Trolls. 00:53:05 Flask of Congealed Deep Trolls. 00:53:50 This is terrible, I just thought it might be a way to get around figuring out Hex balancing for it. 00:54:21 it's a really big flask, huh 00:54:36 s/it/the flask/ s/it/Discord spell/ 00:58:00 * SamB cracks up over this outfit: http://yafgc.net/?id=1715 00:59:28 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:01:32 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:27 -!- GRAVITATION has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:27 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 01:06:15 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:15 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: zzzzz] 01:09:40 heh. You can't polymorph Ribbit into a human 01:11:06 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:15 indeed 01:11:31 maybe we should allow it and have him turn neutral 01:11:56 you wanna see some ribbet splats eh? 01:12:26 hm? 01:12:39 from people trying to polymorph him 01:14:02 sure, why not? 01:14:19 i think the reason he can't be poly'd is good flavour 01:14:27 even if it's something nobody will ever notice 01:14:41 it amused me when I saw it in there ;-) 01:15:46 and tbh having him turn neutral would be way too spoilery 01:16:04 mumra: but the odds of polymorphing ribbit into a human are approximately 0 01:16:37 so ... there doesn't seem much point doing this anyway? ;) 01:22:35 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:23:06 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:24:01 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:25:05 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:12 -!- Guest62734 is now known as SwissStopwatch 01:25:37 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:26:04 -!- dupo has quit [] 01:33:47 -!- platinum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:33:54 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:24 elephant (03Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 51-82 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Dam: 2007(trample), 5 | Res: 06magic(60), 12drown | XP: 431 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 01:34:24 %??elephant 01:34:26 dire elephant (02Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 89-133 | AC/EV: 13/2 | Dam: 4007(trample), 15 | Res: 06magic(100), 12drown | XP: 1616 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 01:34:26 %??dire elephant 01:34:34 unknown monster: "elf death mage" 01:34:34 %??elf death mage 01:34:40 unknown monster: "high elf death mage" 01:34:40 %??high elf death mage 01:34:45 deep elf death mage (16e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 52-82 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1570 | Sp: b.draining (3d19), vampiric draining, call lost soul, twisted resurrection | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 01:34:45 %??deep elf death mage 01:34:49 Fannar (12e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 80 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 8 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(80) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1261 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), refrigeration, ice beast, blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 01:34:49 %??fannar 01:37:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:41:51 warg (16h) | Spd: 13 | HD: 4 | HP: 17-35 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 12, 3, 3 | sense invisible | Res: 06magic(32), 03poison | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 101 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 01:41:51 %??warg 01:41:52 jackal (07h) | Spd: 14 | HD: 1 | HP: 3-8 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 3 | Res: 06magic(1) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1 | Sz: small | Int: animal. 01:41:52 %??jackal 01:42:22 hound (08h) | Spd: 15 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Dam: 6 | sense invisible | Res: 06magic(12) | XP: 43 | Sz: small | Int: animal. 01:42:22 %??hound 01:42:45 random, way-out-there idea for rods: ammo (e.g. in the form of crystals) 01:43:03 which makes the reloading-like mechanic more relevant 01:43:12 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:44:18 (and it's a mechanic which provably works in some roguelikes already) 01:47:31 ok, I think polymoth is now much more sane 01:47:31 it still needs some tweaking because it will downgrade peak genus monsters if there's an option within two levels 01:49:42 mumra: I'm ambivalent about disabling downgrades 01:50:00 downgrades would seem strange 01:51:37 -!- eb has quit [] 01:52:01 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:58 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2117-g3d75345: Polymo{th,rph} tweaks. 10(39 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d753450ac17 01:53:58 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2118-gd404ace: Further restrict polymoth's polymorph. 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 20+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d404acea72fc 01:54:03 unknown monster: "war dog" 01:54:03 %??war dog 01:54:08 hell hound (11h) | Spd: 15 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 6/13 | Dam: 13 | 05demonic, sense invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(20), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 147 | Sp: flame blast (3d10) | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 01:54:08 %??hell hound 01:54:55 hrm. I should add a message so that if you splat to something that got morphed, it'll show up 01:56:41 green rat (09r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 5/11 | Dam: 10 | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 13 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 01:56:41 %??green rat 01:56:46 grey rat (15r) | Spd: 12 | HD: 1 | HP: 3-9 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 5 | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 4 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 01:56:46 %??grey rat 01:57:55 elephant (03Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 51-82 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Dam: 2007(trample), 5 | Res: 06magic(60), 12drown | XP: 431 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 01:57:55 %??elephant 01:57:59 dire elephant (02Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 89-133 | AC/EV: 13/2 | Dam: 4007(trample), 15 | Res: 06magic(100), 12drown | XP: 1616 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 01:57:59 %??dire elephant 02:00:59 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:04 bh: please install the git pre-commit hook ;) 02:02:22 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 02:02:32 whitespace errors make merges confusing :P 02:02:40 mumra: dammit :( 02:03:18 done 02:03:28 hehe 02:03:53 will push momentarily 02:05:24 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2119-gb41e2e4: Disable Polymoth Downgrades 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b41e2e4416b7 02:06:03 bh: of course, setting your editor to use spaces not tabs avoids a lot of problems too ... 02:06:11 -!- Oregano has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:17 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:21 ugh. tabs are evil. I should update my .vimrc 02:06:29 Oregano: Basil the player? 02:06:38 Right. 02:06:51 `The yak evaporates and reforms as a catoblepas!` 02:07:05 Where the hell are you putting these moths? 02:07:18 I haven't decided. L:$? 02:07:24 Hm 02:07:28 That might be interesting 02:08:06 "The fire drake evaporates and reforms as a dragon!" 02:08:09 Is it contact poly or moth of wrath range? 02:08:11 how horrifying 02:08:12 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:08:19 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:08:23 The fire drake evaporates and reforms as a death drake! 02:08:26 "The dragon evaporates and reforms as a storm dragon!" 02:08:28 Oregano: the latter 02:08:43 heh 02:08:46 polymoth (12y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 20 | fly | Res: 06magic(53) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 975 | Sz: small | Int: insect. 02:08:46 %??polymoth 02:08:53 ??polymoth 02:08:53 polymoth[1/1]: ChrisОelmueller says these don't exist 02:09:00 it should probably have less hp 02:09:15 unknown monster: "Giant eye" 02:09:15 %??Giant eye 02:09:18 giant eyeball (16G) | Spd: 3 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 0/1 | lev | Res: 06magic(12), asphyx, 12drown | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 02:09:18 %??Giant eyeball 02:10:31 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:10:32 :1 02:10:34 er 02:11:33 Oregano: assuming they go in, where would you put them? 02:11:39 The eye of draining evaporates and turns into a shining eye! 02:11:39 Hm 02:11:39 All sorts of fun vault opportunities abound 02:11:39 Oregano: The eye of draining evaporates and turns into a eye of devastation! 02:11:39 The yellow draconian evaporates and turns into a yellow draconian caller! 02:12:02 Well, I think they'd be well-suited to their own L:$ end 02:12:07 Very fun stuff there. 02:12:08 `The Vault Guard evaporates and turn into Margery` was really mean 02:12:14 Boggart + Polymoth 02:13:05 Coinflip to replace moths of wrath in Zot? 02:13:20 stuff in Zot can't get much tougher 02:13:22 The problem is just that there's not much to evolve in Zot. 02:13:24 Hm 02:13:31 Problematic. 02:13:35 There's tentacled monstrosities, death cobs and storm dragons. 02:13:39 oh no the dragon turned into a storm dragon whatever will you do 02:13:40 All of those are pretty much the top of their genus. 02:14:05 is pop_entry documented somewhere? I'm assuming the fields are min_level, max_level, weight, type, monster 02:14:09 You evaporate ad turn into a tree! 02:14:26 That would spice things up in Zot. 02:14:26 Oregano: The orb of fire glows bright purple! 02:15:01 You are engulfed in the explosion! You are burned terribly! 02:15:11 Ouch! That really hurt! 02:15:13 You die... 02:15:25 Bloax: hrm? 02:15:45 Urist McAdventurer hp -240/200 annihilated by an orb of fire (540 damage) 02:15:56 don't ask how 02:16:21 rC-? 02:16:32 I think OOF cap at 194 02:16:53 Doesn't tree form have rF-? 02:17:02 Max roll from fireball, no AC applied, 50% boost from rF- 02:17:30 dang 02:17:37 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 11437 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 02:17:37 %??orb of fire 02:17:57 ??malmutate 02:17:57 malmutate[1/1]: Enemy spell that gives you a usually bad mutation. 02:18:16 194 Damage would pretty much be torment to even the strongest characters. 02:18:24 And the weaker ones would just instantly die. 02:18:31 194 would be more than torment 02:18:50 >To even the strongest characters 02:18:51 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 02:19:01 !apts ogre 02:19:09 Hm 02:19:23 Wrong command. Ogres have +3 HP, right? 02:19:27 !apt ogre 02:19:28 Og: Fighting: 3!, Short: -4*, Long: -3*, Axes: -3*, Maces: 3!, Polearms: 0, Staves: -1, Slings: -3, Bows: -3, Xbows: -3, Throw: 1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -1, Stealth: -1, Stab: -2, Shields: -1, Traps: -2, UC: -1, Splcast: 1, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -3, Charms: -3, Summ: -3*, Nec: -3*, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3, Air: -3, Earth: -3*, Poison: -3*, Inv: 1, Evo: -1, Exp: 0, HP: 3!, MP: 0 02:19:30 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 02:19:32 yes! 02:19:51 { 6, 13, 21, PEAK, MONS_POLYMOTH } -- welcome to Lair 02:20:08 1 HP apt ~ 27 HP at max Fighting 02:20:44 Ogres have like 350 HP at max fighting and XL? 02:20:58 And 194 is rather more than half that. 02:21:09 Anyway, polymoth might just be best as a vault monster 02:22:08 Seems like it'd fit right in with Cigotuvi's if that was allowed to change, but 02:22:15 That also has the nothing-to-evolve problem. 02:23:12 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2120-gf858f51: Add Polymoth to the Lair 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f858f51a72da 02:23:40 The lair is good too 02:23:47 there's also up to +30% robust mutations. and berserk. 02:23:52 if you really want to crank up HP 02:23:59 ??rebuild 02:24:00 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ Bug kilobyte or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 02:24:15 Robust berserked dragonformer with Ely's vitalization 02:24:27 Ogre dragonformer, rather. 02:24:53 ??elyvilon 02:24:53 elyvilon[1/4]: The divinity of healing. Most reliable source of protection from being killed while praying, but will impose penance (i.e. not answer your requests for help) if you kill living creatures while praying. Provides healing invocations, but dislikes cannibalism, the use of necromancy, and allowing allies to die. 02:24:59 ??Tree form 02:24:59 ??elyvilon[2 02:25:00 tree form[1/1]: Slow acting, immobile form with -Tele, no potion or food usage, +25 AC, minimal EV, rF- rN+++ rPois. In 0.12, immune to banishment. 02:25:00 pacification[1/4]: Followers of Elyvilon can pacify monsters with healing abilities and wands of healing. Success rate depends on invocations skill and the strength of the healing ability in comparison to the monster's maxhp, modified mostly by holiness. Piety is not involved. Pacifying a monster gives half the normal xp and has a chance of raising piety. 02:27:22 ??polymorph other 02:27:23 polymorph[1/5]: Gives you a random form, usually bad, and changes monsters into other monsters, likely to be harder, but without equipment. 02:27:34 ??polymorph[2] 02:27:35 polymorph[2/5]: Monsters turn into monsters of the same {holiness} and with similar HD, but undead and nonliving monsters cannot be polymorphed. 02:27:39 ??polymorph[3] 02:27:40 polymorph[3/5]: Good targets for polymorph wand: killer bees, jellies, boggarts, harpies, electric eels, wasps, brown ugly things, and well-equipped monsters (e.g. orc knights). 02:28:01 -!- Ruffell has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:28:03 I look forward to the tavern flipping out 02:28:11 bh: if a polymoth gets into jungle_book lair:$, can't it still make hellephants? Though that might not be the worst that could happen with a polymoth in a lair:$ 02:28:30 The one with the troll? 02:28:32 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:28:33 -!- hart_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:28:34 hellephant (04Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 141-205 | AC/EV: 13/10 | Dam: 4507(trample), 20, 15 | 05demonic, !sil | Res: 06magic(133), 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4437 | Sp: fire breath (3d40), blink | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 02:28:34 %??hellephant 02:28:38 elephant (03Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 51-82 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Dam: 2007(trample), 5 | Res: 06magic(60), 12drown | XP: 431 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 02:28:38 %??elephant 02:28:40 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:42 dire elephant (02Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 89-133 | AC/EV: 13/2 | Dam: 4007(trample), 15 | Res: 06magic(100), 12drown | XP: 1616 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 02:28:42 %??dire elephant 02:28:42 Isn't polymorph constrained by holiness? 02:28:48 qoala: it can't make hellephants. holiness 02:28:52 ah right 02:29:05 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:29:05 -!- Grunt has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:29:05 -!- brainwrinkle-fre has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:29:09 However, demon polymorph is fair game for that from what I've heard 02:29:13 forgot that same genus didn't imply same holiness 02:29:21 (p.s. demonpoly vault) 02:29:41 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:29:47 Or does polymoth work on demons? 02:29:57 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:30:04 everyone knows that elephants are inherently evil though! 02:30:06 demons generally have a different genus from each other, I think? 02:30:13 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:30:14 -!- Medar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:30:57 ??polymorph[-1 02:30:59 -!- Medar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31:10 they never forget....to KILL! 02:31:45 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:31:53 ??polymorph 02:31:53 polymorph[5/5]: 6733 | D:5 | Grinder changed into Grinder the hellephant 02:31:56 polymorph[1/5]: Gives you a random form, usually bad, and changes monsters into other monsters, likely to be harder, but without equipment. 02:31:58 boggarts + polymoth will be hilarious 02:32:04 -!- bd- has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:32:11 There we go. 02:32:24 Demonpoly seems to be rather bizarre if that's accurate 02:33:08 <|amethyst> looks like there are no non-unique demons that share a genus with another non-unique demon 02:33:08 Hm, has it changed since then? 02:33:58 -!- Ruffell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:22 What does it even do, then? 02:34:36 Rather, why does it blow up on unique demons? 02:34:55 -!- dtsund has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:56 -!- us17 has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:56 -!- Gilly has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:57 -!- shmup has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:58 -!- buppy has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:58 -!- datgum has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:59 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:59 -!- dosman711 has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:59 -!- darktwinge has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:59 -!- yxhuvud has quit [*.net *.split] 02:34:59 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:00 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:00 -!- Sizzell has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:00 -!- Erratic_Magenta has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:00 -!- appleKen has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:00 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:00 -!- tureba has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:01 -!- djinni has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:01 -!- greensnark has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:01 -!- varmin has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:01 -!- flowsnake_ has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:02 -!- _sk has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:02 -!- Wah has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:02 -!- ontoclasm has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:02 -!- crate has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:02 -!- Kintak has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:03 -!- jday_ has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:03 -!- xnavy has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:03 -!- yuastnav has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:04 -!- bmfx has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:04 -!- sacje has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:04 -!- klz has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:04 -!- joosa has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:04 -!- Furril has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:04 -!- atomicth1mbs has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:05 -!- Keskitalo has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:05 -!- BrightCloud has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:06 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:06 -!- stabwound has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:07 -!- Insomniak` has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:07 -!- Sonderblade has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:07 -!- RZX has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:07 -!- myrmidette has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:08 -!- Wahaha has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:08 -!- ToBeFree has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:08 -!- johnstein has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:09 -!- Pedjt has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:09 -!- Eronarn has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:09 -!- lukano has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:09 -!- Zannick has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:42 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:01 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:10 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:15 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- darktwinge has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- Wahaha has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- flowsnake_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:16 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:25 -!- Sequell has quit [Excess Flood] 02:37:36 how do I send ^R to webtiles? 02:38:32 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:39:27 <|amethyst> Oregano: polymoth probably does nothing versus demons, unless maybe it changes unique demons into their non-unique counterparts 02:39:27 Grinder (025) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 40 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Dam: 1105(pain) | 05demonic, 10items, 10doors, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(24), 02cold++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 322 | Sp: pain (d10), paralyse, blink | Sz: little | Int: normal. 02:39:27 <|amethyst> %??grinder 02:41:55 -!- Silvaris has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:42:17 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2120-gf858f51 (34) 02:43:18 |amethyst: I'm not sure on that crash 02:43:34 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:43:53 -!- odiv has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:44:45 <|amethyst> !tell bh *R (* simulates ctrl) 02:44:47 |amethyst: OK, I'll let bh know. 02:46:07 So earlier evilmike suggested making spectral weapon damage scale with both spell power and weapon skill. 02:46:08 It'll follow the linear curve that the skill multiplier already does for player melee and player ghosts, but the slope will depend on power. 02:46:28 but never be quite as good as the player's own damage, even at max power. 02:47:00 (the goal is to further encourage skill investment past the point that you have haste castable) 02:47:40 sounds cool 02:47:47 -!- lasirith is now known as lasserith 02:48:17 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:49:17 however, I'm uncertain what function of spell power, the slope should be. The first formula I've tried is equivalent to multiplying the weapon skill by (4 / (105 - power)), which maxes out at 4/5 wpn skill, with quite a large spell investment. 02:49:27 but this is probably the opposite of the curve I want 02:50:06 since later investment is worth more per point of skill (not point of exp). I'm not sure though. 02:51:57 hm. it would probably make it quite weak to start with too 02:51:57 yeah 02:51:57 as in "probably not worth casting" weak 02:51:57 well, I'm still of the opinion that without a skill bonus, it's usable early. 02:51:57 and this would be equivalent to almost no skill bonus until you get some power. 02:51:57 oh, well, if that's the case then it's coo 02:51:57 l 02:51:57 Feedback seems to disagree with me, though. 02:51:57 * ProzacElf shrugs 02:51:57 i am certainly not the best source for authoritative feedback =) 02:51:57 Spectral weapons get brands, right? 02:51:59 yes 02:53:05 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2121-gbe8bae7: Correct Grinder's genus. 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=be8bae766ecd 02:53:05 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2122-gd9bcf15: Fix formatting. 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d9bcf15909ac 02:53:07 Spectral elec sabres sound pretty neat. 02:53:07 -!- snwl has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:53:07 Infusion rocks socks on unarmed characters. 02:53:07 i thought it was funny when my SW had the inscription i put on my main weapon 02:53:08 yeah, elec, holy, and draining are good brands. Flaming allows double hydra decapitation. 02:53:19 which i plan to do for the sole purpose of seeing double hydra decapitation 02:53:40 Don't forget that a bottled efreet is a free scimitar of flaming. 02:53:50 Pain ends up dependent on the weapon's HD, which is currently equal to your weapon skill, which is a bit odd. 02:53:54 like, i will use a flaming long blade vastly inferior to whatever i'm currently using just to check it out 02:54:38 as in pain deals necro = weapon skill / 2 02:55:10 depending on how much skill you've got in your primary weapon, an unskilled long blade could be around twice as slow, though. :P 02:55:34 heh....but how else will i see double decapitation? 02:55:41 well, an axe obviously 02:55:59 <|amethyst> "Kills by a spectral weapon count as your own when singing a Song of Slaying." 02:56:02 but assuming i haven't trained either, i'm still willing to take the rist eventually =P 02:56:03 Yeah, I got a lucky flaming axe from oka on an early HOSk test just as I entered lair. 02:56:06 rist = risk 02:56:09 <|amethyst> That sounds a little over-specific 02:56:32 oh, i saw someone in ##crawl a while ago wondering how branding spells affect SW? 02:56:32 |amethyst: it's relevant, because you might get the SoS bonus 02:56:35 That line is possibly less important now that kills by a spectral weapon count as your own for all purposes. 02:56:51 The special casing actually got removed once we fixed that. 02:56:55 <|amethyst> mumra: but it kind of implies they don't count as your own for other purposes 02:56:59 yeah 02:57:11 i seem to remember a conversation with lainiw about this a while back 02:57:17 <|amethyst> and battlesphere says nothing similar 02:57:19 It was in the original proposal, but the text is now probably unnecessary 02:57:22 i think i suggested mentioning this in the SoS description rather than SW 02:57:32 as in, if you fire brand then cast sw, will the brand wear off on both at the same time? 02:57:37 no 02:57:40 -!- Dargu3l has quit [Client Quit] 02:57:44 <|amethyst> Does SoSl count only melee kills? 02:57:46 the point is, normal summons kills *won't* contribute to your SoS bonus, but SW kills will 02:57:48 the sw will have the brand until it times out, currently 02:57:55 i suspected as much 02:57:59 SoSl counts only melee kills attributed to the player 02:58:04 but i didn't want to give a definitive answer 02:58:16 <|amethyst> qoala: then SoS description could probably use a fix 02:58:27 <|amethyst> "Each non-summoned enemy you slay in combat during this recitation . . ." 02:59:09 |amethyst: that's not what i meant (although it's also true) 02:59:21 |amethyst: the point is if _your_ summons make kills it doesn't count for SoS bonus 02:59:31 <|amethyst> mumra: right, but that's also true for lots of things 02:59:35 |amethyst: except for SW whose kills do count 02:59:53 |amethyst: the point that needs clarifying is that SW and SoS work together 03:00:01 Does the player understand that SW and BS kills are considered their own for all intents and purposes? The "you kill" messages are fairly clear. 03:00:32 <|amethyst> anyway, that last quote was about "slay in combat" 03:00:32 <|amethyst> that makes it sound like ranged kills, and possibly spell kills, would count 03:00:39 ah 03:00:48 specify "melee kills" obviously 03:00:56 but, the player might not understand the difference between how kills by their summons are attributed and how SW kills are attributed 03:01:09 <|amethyst> mumra: isn't the same true for battlesphere? 03:01:12 because kills by your summons *are* attributed to you in a limited sense 03:01:35 "you or your spectral weapon slay in melee combat"? 03:01:48 qoala: that's probably the neatest way to put it yeah 03:01:53 i was never under the impression that either didn't count as a personal kill 03:02:02 but it may be clearer to specify 03:02:08 |amethyst: the only implication with battlesphere is full xp (hmm, and what about death curses?) 03:02:24 whereas SW has this extra interaction with SoS 03:02:26 <|amethyst> mumra: full XP, piety, death curses, ... 03:02:47 with many gods you get piety for kills by summons anyway right? 03:03:05 <|amethyst> not vehumet, who is probably the most relevant one for battlesphere, since he gifts and supports it 03:03:15 ah yeah 03:03:21 <|amethyst> s/he/e/ 03:03:26 and promotes spells that use the shit out of it 03:03:36 which i suppose falls under "supports" 03:04:02 <|amethyst> the slaying bonus for SoSl is to both accuracy and damage? 03:04:05 ProzacElf: yeah, it's logical to assume it works this way if you think about it ... but many players would ask the question first before applying their mind, so it's easier to just document it ;) 03:04:23 |amethyst: yes 03:04:48 mumra: this is true. i have an unfortunate tendency to ask a question then just go find out through a little empirical testing after i've already asked anyway =P 03:05:20 ProzacElf: i'm sure mostly people do this, i certainly do ;) 03:05:32 heh 03:06:36 and it wouldn't be an unreasonable question to ask anyway, i mean it's possible we didn't think it through, or didn't intend them to stack for whatever reason 03:06:51 If it matters: "Without using SW, I thought that one line in its description meant it's kills only counted for Okawaru and such only so long as you were using the song of slaying." 03:07:22 haha 03:07:28 yeah that wording was pretty ambiguous 03:08:05 good point 03:08:42 now i think about it i'm certain i remember being confused by this as well when i first read it 03:10:20 <|amethyst> hm, most spells use third person but there seems to be a tendency towards second-person 03:10:23 <|amethyst> spell descriptions 03:11:34 that could probably use some work for consistency 03:12:14 <|amethyst> I personally prefer the third person, but that's because I'm a stodgy academic 03:12:27 i like it too 03:12:33 but i'm also a stodgy academic 03:12:39 so that doesn't carry much water 03:13:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:23 Now that I'm paying attention to it, I like the third person too. 03:14:36 but if someone changes them all to third person the commit message can read: "make spell descriptions more stodgy" =) 03:19:16 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:13 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: "Stodgify spell descriptions." 03:20:29 <|amethyst> that might not be stodgy enough 03:20:45 heh 03:20:50 i still approve 03:20:56 hrm, is there a need to put a perimiter of . around temple overflow vaults? 03:21:18 When testing thim with &P or &L they often get integrated into the level poorly without having that perimiter 03:21:31 But I'm not sure how the overflow placing might be different 03:21:33 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:38 since they have no orient tag 03:22:01 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:22:06 <|amethyst> gammafunk: integrated poorly in what way? 03:22:08 I see the card rank nem vaults (the heart, spade, etc) have that perimiter 03:22:21 |amethyst: They're just buried into rock in the dungeon 03:22:29 so any shape of the vault is pretty messed up 03:22:36 <|amethyst> without connections? 03:22:44 the entrance is fine, of course 03:23:11 but they're mostly for flavour, and usually the shape of the vault is not really visible after it gets stock in a bunch of rock 03:23:20 *stuck 03:23:39 but again, I'm not sure how the placing is different outside of wizmode 03:23:50 since there's no orient tag and I have to add orient:float to test it 03:24:00 can I test non-orient tagged vaults in wizmode? 03:24:04 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 03:25:11 <|amethyst> yes, but &L doesn't really correspond to how it would work on a real level 03:25:30 <|amethyst> since it treats them as can_overwrite I believe 03:25:42 &P does a better job I assume, but I have to add an orient? 03:25:47 -!- Lison has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:26:09 <|amethyst> &P generates the level around the vault, which only works for non-minivaults (those with orient) 03:26:29 <|amethyst> but just changing it from a minivault to an orient vault also isn't going to show you how the minivault would place 03:26:34 yeah 03:26:52 <|amethyst> if you want to see how the builder handles it, set a PLACE: or a CHANCE: 03:27:24 <|amethyst> and use &^R to regenerate the level 03:27:59 <|amethyst> probably someone who actually does vaults can provide better advice than I can 03:28:54 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30:29 Well, I did that with one of grunt's overflow vaults 03:30:42 and it's partially submerged in rock 03:31:07 so it seems like having that perimiter might be a good idea 03:32:03 Probably it's also related to how big the vault is, so ones that are much past 10 tiles in a dimension might need it 03:34:02 !tell Grunt Do you think it might be a good idea or put a perimiter of floor (".") around most overflow vaults that aren't very small? 03:34:02 gammafunk: OK, I'll let grunt know. 03:34:28 <|amethyst> does that actually prevent them from being embedded in rock? 03:34:29 !tell Grunt They seem to look kind of bad when they get stuck in rock during level gen if you don't make that perimiter 03:34:30 gammafunk: OK, I'll let grunt know. 03:34:35 |amethyst: yes 03:34:46 |amethyst: The nem card rank vaults do that 03:35:02 Hmmm... 100 power for a Charms/Hexes spell takes nearly 27 average school skill with ~10 spellcasting and 18 int (possibly generous for a melee char) without spell enhancers. Given how hard that is to reach, I might initially let spectral weapon get full skill bonus at max power. 03:35:11 ??spear of the botono 03:35:13 spear of the botono[1/2]: The +2,+10 spear of the Botono {reap, rPois rN+ HP-6}, acts as a hex enhancer. 03:35:29 but unrands can't be cloned anymore, I think. 03:36:39 <|amethyst> botono isn't special 03:36:39 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:37:22 <|amethyst> (I mean, it doesn't have the special flag, meaning it can be SWed) 03:38:46 <|amethyst> !lg * sk recent xl>10 s=int 03:38:46 606 games for * (sk recent xl>10): 72x 15, 55x 14, 53x 16, 49x 17, 44x 18, 42x 20, 40x 19, 31x 12, 29x 21, 24x 23, 23x 13, 19x 22, 13x 26, 13x 8, 12x 27, 11x 11, 11x 25, 10x 24, 9x 10, 7x 9, 5x 31, 5x 29, 5x 33, 4x 30, 4x 28, 2x 32, 2x 7, 2x 36, 2x 3, 42, 37, 5, 51, 39, 56, 38, 35 03:39:01 <|amethyst> !lg * sk recent xl>15 s=int 03:39:02 222 games for * (sk recent xl>15): 20x 20, 17x 17, 12x 23, 12x 22, 11x 14, 11x 15, 11x 26, 11x 16, 10x 27, 10x 18, 10x 25, 10x 21, 10x 12, 9x 24, 9x 19, 7x 13, 5x 33, 4x 31, 4x 9, 3x 29, 3x 11, 3x 10, 3x 28, 3x 8, 2x 30, 2x 32, 42, 38, 5, 51, 37, 36, 39, 56, 35, 7 03:39:06 <|amethyst> !lg * sk recent xl>20 s=int 03:39:06 130 games for * (sk recent xl>20): 12x 20, 9x 26, 8x 17, 8x 22, 8x 27, 7x 13, 6x 21, 6x 24, 6x 23, 5x 16, 5x 15, 5x 25, 4x 31, 4x 19, 4x 33, 4x 14, 3x 9, 3x 8, 3x 12, 2x 11, 2x 30, 2x 28, 2x 29, 2x 32, 37, 56, 36, 51, 18, 42, 35, 10, 5, 39 03:39:31 <|amethyst> 18 looks closer to average than high 03:39:56 <|amethyst> !lg * sk won recent s=int o=int 03:39:57 85 games for * (sk won recent): 56, 51, 42, 39, 37, 36, 35, 4x 33, 32, 3x 31, 29, 28, 6x 27, 5x 26, 3x 25, 3x 24, 6x 23, 7x 22, 3x 21, 7x 20, 3x 19, 2x 17, 4x 16, 5x 15, 14, 5x 13, 2x 12, 11, 10, 2x 9, 2x 8 03:40:04 ah, I wasn't sure if old skald was a good model 03:40:16 I tried --Fi, --Gl, TSO and Oka 03:40:35 <|amethyst> well 03:40:38 which probably weren't good models either 03:41:23 <|amethyst> I still think "train int to the exclusion of everything else" is still popular, though maybe new EVP changes that 03:41:26 well, allowing easier total duplication of botono is probably not broken. It's still a spear underneath, so full scaling of the base damage isn't much. 03:41:42 true 03:42:17 <|amethyst> also, archmagi 03:42:38 Okay then, at 22 int, you still need 21 skill in BOTH charms and hexes. 03:42:40 Will a melee character use archmagi rather than defenses, though? 03:43:24 <|amethyst> maybe not in general 03:44:07 <|amethyst> probably someone who is a better player than I should be answering these questions 03:45:12 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:45:14 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:33 what is the UNRAND_FLAG_SPECIAL supposed to mean normally? I'm not seeing the pattern, yet. 03:45:53 oh wait, now I found it 03:46:11 <|amethyst> can't be tukima'd or wielded by monsters 03:46:20 <|amethyst> s/wielded/picked up/ 03:46:21 Yeah, makes sense to add SW to that list. 03:46:31 <|amethyst> often but not always because it would crash or just not work 03:46:49 ah. Very good reasons. 03:47:26 <|amethyst> not everything that has custom code in art-funcs.h is special, but probably most of them are 03:48:28 <|amethyst> Lear's Hauberk, for example, is special because that avoids having to determine which monsters are humanoid enough to wear it 03:48:44 right 03:48:56 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:21 <|amethyst> Wucad is special because its plusses used to scale with int 03:49:55 <|amethyst> it might not need to be special anymore (since monsters still couldn't channel with it) 03:50:14 Well, I've got a nice linear curve for spell power now. Equivalent to weapon skill being 1/3 as powerful at 0 power and full power at 100 power (x2.08 base damage). The weapon doesn't get strength or slaying bonuses, so isn't a full copy at max power. 03:50:45 It should be easy to tweak later. 03:50:53 <|amethyst> weapon skill here affecting acc and damage? or also speed? 03:52:14 <|amethyst> Also, I assume that x2.08 is only for max weapon skill? 03:52:53 yeah 03:53:03 at the max weapon skill 03:53:07 So it affects damage only 03:53:37 It attack with you only, so it currently moves at 30, but only attacks as fast as you anyways. (until you attack faster than the monster speed cap) 03:53:50 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:54:16 The to-hit might need a rework, since it currently gives HD = skill, only affecting to-hit. 03:54:21 <|amethyst> hm 03:54:24 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:54:51 There's ways to cheat the monster speed cap, but I'm not sure how safe they are yet. 04:01:12 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:01:28 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 04:03:15 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:04:13 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:47 -!- SteampunkDuck has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:04:48 -!- mshock has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:05:52 -!- Sonderblade has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:05:58 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:09:55 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25:16 wow, polymoth in lair? 04:25:26 that sounds a little weird 04:27:17 Yes, I agree. Though it IS at least incredibly rare. 04:27:38 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:27:42 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:31:23 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:34:40 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:27 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:53:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:53:03 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:54:14 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:14 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 04:54:14 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 04:55:21 -!- ag- is now known as bd 04:55:31 -!- bd is now known as bd- 05:02:56 mumra: I'm tinkering with damage scaling for spectral weapon. How likely do you think it is for a melee character to get Hexes/Charms to 100 power? 05:03:49 25 int and 10 spellcasting only gets you close at 27 hexes and charms. (now that I'm taking into account the stepdown properly) 05:04:24 (~99 power at those stats, if I'm calculating things correctly) 05:06:08 with same stats and one of archmagi or botono, cap is hit just before 18 average school skill. 05:06:10 hmm 05:06:29 if it's worth doing so, then it's pretty likely 05:07:15 I don't actually think it's pretty likely if it's going to require a heavy investment 05:07:21 Since it's not worth not investing in something else instead 05:07:31 note, i said "if it's worth doing so" 05:07:49 but this depends what stage of the game we're talking about 05:07:57 So weapon skill for players/ghosts gives a bonus multiplier from x1 (at 0 skill) to x2.08 (at 27 skill) 05:08:12 Well, I think it's unlikely for someone to wear archmagi for this, no matter what 05:08:20 If that's what you meant 05:08:42 spectral staff of enchantment 05:08:44 What I've got effectively scales the weapon skill to 1/3 at 0 power and 1:1 at 100 power 05:08:52 if you're talking about extended and they already have their weapon/defence high enough for the payoff there to be very slim, and they can get more melee damage by investing more in charms/hexes, then why wouldn't they 05:09:05 but yeah archmagic isn't very likely 05:09:09 s/c// 05:09:51 Perhaps, it should never reach 1:1 then, so that it doesn't unbalance extended, when skills can be put wherever? 05:10:16 though there's plenty of drawbacks to using it in extended (double hellfire damage, for one) 05:10:39 probably don't need to worry about this unbalancing extended, since the player could have fire storm or tornado at that point for the same kill investment 05:10:46 true 05:11:14 Yes, you really don't need to worry about that 05:11:26 Certainly an afterthought to balance in literally anywhere else 05:11:54 1:1 isn't even necessarily that amazing on its own, depending on fragility and damage sharing and all, you know 05:12:04 And not working in corridors, and other limitations 05:14:18 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2123-gf5f1ecf: Brace fixes. 10(10 hours ago, 3 files, 0+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f5f1ecf758dd 05:14:18 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2124-g4073216: A desc for the book of battle. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4073216d8952 05:14:20 Like, there are all kinds of knobs to tweak 05:14:20 |amethyst: perhaps we should have a genus-only "imp" monster? 05:14:20 |amethyst: as seeing a bunch of imps at once is a common occurence 05:14:20 DracoOmega: also it doesn't get the stat multiplier, or slaying, so it's not a full copy even at 1:1 05:14:20 and a melee char ought to have some decent slaying by the time that much investment is affordable. 05:14:25 i'm inclined to think damage sharing is a pretty harsh drawback and should be toned down 05:14:39 qoala: Well, also keep in mind that it doing half dmaage actually means doing a lot less than half damage 05:14:43 qoala: Due to AC 05:15:12 mumra: Well, damage sharing perhaps need not be 1-to-1 05:15:17 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:15:28 yeah 05:15:40 yeah, we definitely nerfed it too hard. We had it at % sharing before 05:15:41 with a better ratio it'd be useful since it's drawing damage away from you 05:15:47 Alternatively, it could just not share damage and be extremely fragile. It certainly shouldn't both share damage AND be really fragile, though 05:15:53 we tried fragile 05:15:56 but right now it means you can be taking _more_ damage with the spell active 05:16:03 It would just get in the way and die, wasting your mp 05:16:21 Well, that sounds okay sometimes if it dies quickly in bad terrain! 05:16:28 Worse if the weapon is consistantly doing that 05:16:47 it was constantly >.>, though the AI got multiple tweaks since that experiment. 05:16:50 But I have seen people in ##crawl mention that on more than one ocassion they summoned, and it still died immediately, and they took a bunch of damage on top of that 05:16:55 I wanted to check of Okawaru accepts sw kills, and tried it in wizmode. Spawned a stone giant as it's something that still grants piety at that level. It took me more than ten tries for the sw to get the death blow. 05:16:59 the ai seemed pretty good to me recently, i could pretty much always set things up easily so it was in a useful position being useful 05:17:11 Being suboptimal vs axes/fireball/hellfire is somewhat tactically interesting. 05:17:23 death blow chance is roughly proportional to damage dealt... 05:17:29 qoala: its robustness could also scale up with spell power 05:17:35 kilobyte, it doesn't do enough damage right now to get the kill on a stone giant 05:17:49 Yeah, it's hp/ac/ev is really poor and scales poorly with power right now 05:17:55 that also needs a buff 05:18:23 I think it can afford to be pretty durable when there is damage sharing involved 05:18:32 Since it's still not something you want to use to tank anything 05:18:44 So it's okay if it doesn't poof right away either 05:19:14 yeah, after removing the fragility, it never did get the old defenses. 05:19:19 and even those were pretty light. 05:19:31 qoala: isn't it supposed to do similar damage to you? Especially with 0 slaying, starting strength but 27 Evoc/weapon/fighting/spc/charms/hexes. 05:20:28 -!- klz has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:22:57 So it will do similar damage per hit at 0 slaying, x1 str bonus, and max power. It's speed will be the same as long as you're not attacking faster than 30. 05:23:21 It's to hit probably needs adjustment, but will only be dependent on weapon skill, to avoid having to pass fighting skill, probably. 05:23:56 Currently, it's to hit is plain monster to-hit at HD = weapon skill, which is probably a poor analogue. 05:25:48 oh, I guess I'm also ignoring fighting to damage as well 05:27:19 But I'm not sure it should ever fully double your damage (with a second AC check) in a realistic scenario. It's only level 3. 05:28:29 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:31:29 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:44:58 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:48:13 So I'm putting together a series of buffs to spectral weapon in a patch. I've got damage scaling, and allowing allied beams to pass through (similar to battlesphere) since it's an extension of yourself. 05:48:27 I'm reducing damage sharing to maybe 2/3? or 1/2? 05:48:46 <|amethyst> hm 05:57:31 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:04:05 -!- dcss81171 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09:19 i'd maybe go lower (since presumably it's stacking with monster damage in terms of bypassing your ac? 06:09:57 Manual says Ds muts are magenta but they're really cyan by Grandiloquent Gentleman 06:10:40 (in fact how does ac work, does it first check the sw's ac and then yours? also is the sw's EV usually better or worse than the player -- this is another downside if it's more likely to get hit than you) 06:13:07 Well, I need to buff the monster AC/EV still, and I'm not sure how much it'll be. Right now, it's very much worse. 06:13:14 It checks only the weapon's AC 06:13:38 I think it's EV needs to at least be bumped by 10 06:14:10 ac and ev both = 2 + div_rand_round(power, 12) right now 06:19:29 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:28:02 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:02 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:28:05 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:30:03 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 06:31:11 I'll have to finish and submit this patch later. I'm apparently too tired right now to think. 06:31:29 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: sleeeeeeep] 06:31:49 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:44:07 -!- Duralumin_ is now known as Duralumin 06:47:43 -!- cbus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:47:55 -!- Oregano has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:51:29 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:57 -!- klz has quit [Changing host] 06:55:37 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 07:02:05 I think there is opposition to polymoth because even though it is a very flashy and distinct effect that has lots of interesting implications it is also a type of polymorph that ignores previous polymorph rules (classes) and also literally means something different for almost literally every non-undead non-living monster in the game 07:02:18 which makes it the most spoiler-heavy potential monster there could be 07:02:54 which makes me side with the hating it compared to just giving it a randomized always-higher-hd mass polymorph 07:03:27 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:07:23 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:15 -!- datgum has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:18:27 genus seems rather clear to me 07:18:40 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 07:18:49 on the other hand, I'd really keep Lair free of magic 07:18:55 without checking, tell me which has higher hd: fire drake or swamp drake 07:19:10 (i.e. is a swamp drake a valid polymorph for a lair fire drake or not) 07:19:43 heh, indeed, I though swamp > fire 07:20:06 To be honest, I think the poly effect can probably work better as a generic +HD poly 07:20:10 So it could apply to a lot more things 07:20:15 (And then not have it in Lair) 07:26:06 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:53 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:08 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:43 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:47:44 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:17 -!- yalue has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:50:44 -!- wumpus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:54 -!- wumpus has quit [Changing host] 07:51:03 -!- blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:51:27 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:52:53 -!- eith|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:31 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:02:49 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:08:51 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 08:08:56 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:10:31 -!- leStahL has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:15:25 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:16:18 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:17 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:09 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:27 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:24:09 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:27:34 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:41 -!- StahLBeta has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:28:53 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:13 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:38:25 Everyone: bandwidth usage for CLAN! http://i.imgur.com/hKPFsxb.png 08:38:30 (don't worry, we have a limit of 5 TB/month) 08:39:07 !tell |amethyst shall I reactivate compression? 08:39:08 TZer0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 08:41:25 -!- dcss35806 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:46:34 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:55 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:50:55 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 08:52:36 -!- floatboth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:48 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 08:56:19 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:58:30 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:02:50 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:05:57 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:30 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 09:09:28 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:15:01 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:15:19 -!- santiago_ has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:15:45 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:19 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:09 -!- santiago_ has quit [Client Quit] 09:19:47 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:53 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:17 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:45 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:29:17 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:57 -!- Nexos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:32:55 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:35:47 -!- ParallaxScroll has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:37:49 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:40:28 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:57 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 09:41:16 -!- bh_ is now known as bh 09:41:19 hi 09:41:19 bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:41:22 !messages 09:41:23 (1/1) |amethyst said (6h 56m 36s ago): *R (* simulates ctrl) 09:47:17 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:43 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:00:06 -!- heeelp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:02:53 -!- SkaryMonk has left ##crawl-dev 10:03:09 -!- snwl has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 10:05:09 -!- santiago__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:51 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:08:43 -!- santiago__ has quit [Client Quit] 10:09:05 -!- santiago__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:57 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:11:14 -!- johnny0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:35 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:38 Medar: one problem with 0f126f1a82a0 is that it'll show the minibars at the player's coordinates when they're not on the level (still preferable to not showing them for transformed players, though) 10:13:43 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:31 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:45 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:18:09 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:21:23 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:32 -!- santiago__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:23 -!- appleKen has quit [] 10:31:03 -!- orionstein_ is now known as orionstein 10:34:08 -!- lasserith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:34:35 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:48 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:47 -!- six40sword has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:25 -!- Bleu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:58 -!- Lantell has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:49:08 -!- hhkb has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:49:15 -!- Nexos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:49:37 -!- bakaflockaflame has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:00 -!- Lantell has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:25 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:59:18 -!- Nakalein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:01:38 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:03 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:23 -!- DracoOmega has left ##crawl-dev 11:03:34 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:10 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:01 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:09 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:14:39 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:18:15 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:19:17 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:23:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:25:00 -!- impeldumpi has quit [Client Quit] 11:29:55 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:31:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:21 -!- Nexos has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:43:50 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:17 -!- santiago__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:13 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:52:56 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:30 -!- Phantom is now known as Guest4649 11:53:48 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:58:21 -!- Djinn_and_Tonic has quit [] 12:01:33 -!- Voker57 has quit [] 12:05:20 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 12:07:48 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2124-g4073216 (34) 12:08:20 -!- oberstein has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:08:49 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:54 -!- Guest4649 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:12:46 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:00 lol 12:15:09 tengu reaver just blew himself up with a fireball 12:15:12 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:40 seems pretty thematic 12:15:59 he was mad cause i was a better tengu than him 12:30:13 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:48 -!- noobcanoe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:41:13 OH MAN 12:41:25 dryads are now super awesome 12:41:37 good job whoever did that 12:41:58 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:38 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 First you should probably do a manual compression run, since the first one will take a while 12:48:39 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 12:48:52 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 But then yes 12:48:53 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 12:49:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:50:15 -!- kronusdark has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 12:54:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:57:55 do dryads do that tentacle vine thing that was talked about a while ago? 12:58:23 dryad (087) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 56-84 | AC/EV: 6/12 | Dam: 10 | spellcaster | Res: 06magic(93) | Vul: 04fire | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 671 | Sp: awaken vines, awaken forest, minor healing (2d5) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 12:58:23 <|amethyst> %??dryad 12:58:33 nice tree glyph 12:58:40 snaplasher vine (09w) | Spd: 13 | HD: 16 | HP: 19-30 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 003(constrict), 13 | 03plant | Res: 06magic(64), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 12:58:40 <|amethyst> %??snaplasher vine 12:59:06 when spriggan druids summon animals, they should emerge from the trees instead of popping out of thin air 13:00:42 spirit wolves are cool too 13:00:53 but maybe it should summon more of them? 13:02:10 spirit wolf makes me think of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bMR53zHrdzg#t=51s 13:03:13 haha 13:03:42 <|amethyst> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/712sWdE2OTL._SL1309_.jpg 13:05:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:03 haha 13:06:05 oh man 13:08:33 three-wolf chimera 13:08:41 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:42 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:09 |amethyst: It's so tasteful..... 13:27:28 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:30:36 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:39 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:39 -!- alefury|2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:49 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:51 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:04 -!- santiago__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:04 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:11 -!- alefury|2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:18 -!- psuedo has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:52:19 -!- Nexos is now known as fdel 13:57:10 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:37 -!- jeffrom has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:59:05 -!- darktwinge is now known as Twinge 13:59:19 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:00:27 -!- DjinnandTonic has quit [] 14:00:56 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:49 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:19 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:37 -!- xnavy has quit [Killed (rajaniemi.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 14:05:37 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 14:08:55 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:09:06 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:54 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:08 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 14:10:22 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 14:11:55 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:12:12 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:14:19 -!- Lison has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:16:24 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:20:44 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 14:21:35 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:22 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:20 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:36 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:07 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:01 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:30:09 -!- blabber_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:30:18 -!- Qwertycoatl has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:30:31 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:25 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 14:37:56 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:45 -!- lasserith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:44:22 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:26 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:53 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:44 -!- GRAVITATION has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:51:46 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:49 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:26 hmm, why are only KNOWN scrolls displayed as useless at high temp? 14:57:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:00:58 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:03 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:06:38 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:09:04 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:47 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:09:50 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:06 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:00 <|amethyst> SamB: an oversight I imagine 15:17:22 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2125-g33c7f1c: Mark unknown scrolls as useless for hot lava orcs (SamB) 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=33c7f1cf6da1 15:33:26 -!- Qwertycoatl has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:34:50 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:39:30 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 15:40:32 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:58 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:00 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:43 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:47:52 |amethyst: are you here? 15:47:52 TZer0: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:47:52 !messages 15:47:53 (1/2) |amethyst said (2h 59m 14s ago): First you should probably do a manual compression run, since the first one will take a while 15:47:54 !messages 15:47:55 (1/1) |amethyst said (2h 59m 3s ago): But then yes 15:48:33 <|amethyst> TZer0: hey 15:48:48 |amethyst: any particular reason I should run the command manually? 15:49:01 It might take over an hour you think? 15:49:08 <|amethyst> yeah 15:49:12 okay. 15:49:27 <|amethyst> might not, depends on your disk speed and just how many you had 15:49:36 Running it now. 15:49:45 in a screen 15:49:47 just in case. 15:50:46 -!- rossi has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:51:24 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:51:33 |amethyst: did you remember to add installing lsof to your guide? 15:52:13 <|amethyst> TZer0: I added a mention in the incomplete section 13 15:52:24 good, good 15:52:45 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:52:45 if you could put the document somewhere where I have acces 15:52:47 access 15:52:55 then I can correct mistakes as well 15:53:24 <|amethyst> it's just a text file 15:53:32 <|amethyst> you could put it in the dev wiki 15:54:08 <|amethyst> that's probably simpler than me trying to set something up on CSZO 15:54:20 Hmm, point 15:54:29 <|amethyst> or I could give you an account 15:54:57 <|amethyst> but even then I think wiki is best, because joosa, Napkin, rax, etc may have comments 15:55:25 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:55:37 ooh is this server documentation? :D 15:55:56 <|amethyst> yeah, currently at http://dobrazupa.org/setting-up-dgamelaunch-and-webtiles 15:56:09 <|amethyst> not complete by any means 15:56:19 wiki sounds like a nice idea 15:56:27 hey guys ;) 15:56:48 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:57:03 <|amethyst> And people said summoning was nerfed! 16:00:45 isn't it? 16:01:45 <|amethyst> Well, apparently the cap for Summon Server Admin is at least 4 16:02:18 lol! 16:02:51 we don't care if that one is OP, though 16:06:45 What if someone casts it later 16:06:51 and it doesn't have a cap 16:06:58 and the person has a massive spellpower 16:07:03 and everyone has to get to him? 16:12:37 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:47 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:13:07 Frequent segfault in Abyss by Joellercoaster 16:14:16 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:47 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2126-g048af07: Add blackcustard, elliott, qoala, infiniplex, and lainiw to CREDITS.txt. 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=048af079fd42 16:19:01 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:14 Does a Djinni _ever_ need a ring of flight? 16:26:26 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:35 their hover thing is slow 16:27:35 -!- gammafunk_ has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:18 Interesting. 16:28:37 -!- pantaril has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:52 <|amethyst> in fact, unlike other races, djinn get no disadvantages from flight 16:28:56 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:08 <|amethyst> since they're already susceptible to airstrike 16:30:04 !lg * race=djinn killer=titan 16:30:04 No games for * (race=djinn killer=titan). 16:33:31 -!- DaneiTHREE has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:34:11 |amethyst: compression is done. 16:34:17 Reactivated crontab. 16:34:53 <|amethyst> okay, I guess it wasn't quite an hour :) 16:35:05 indeed :P 16:35:33 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:35:44 <|amethyst> I need to improve that script in various ways 16:35:58 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:03 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:38:53 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:55 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:47:10 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:47:28 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:21 Uhh.. 16:51:28 my browser always hangs when ending the game 16:51:33 I have to refresh to get back to the lobby 16:52:18 TZer0: i was having that problem a couple nights ago. 16:52:29 for whatever reason it was fine the next day 16:52:38 TZer0: You need to restart the WebTiles server to fix that problem 16:53:17 Medar: roger, I'll take it down in a while. 16:53:20 You still have the old client.html too btw. 16:53:39 What? I thought I updated that.. 16:53:47 Let me double check, maybe it's my cache 16:53:48 -!- TZer0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:51 Oh 16:54:15 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:34 TZer0: I'm still getting the old one. Don't think it's my cache. 16:55:13 If you view source on the page, there should not be a line "priority: ['jquery']," 16:55:30 |amethyst: Yeh, there were missing bits in the guide, but I didn't write them down and forgot already 16:56:07 * joosa pats on his own shoulder 16:56:43 Did you guys update the scripts to copy client.html automatically? I have one such change coming up. 16:56:54 Medar: Yes, it's updated 16:57:08 Great. 16:57:34 |amethyst: Ah, one such thing was, dgamelaunch didn't create an empty user db 16:57:42 Medar: try again? 16:57:55 TZer0: It's good now, thanks. 16:58:36 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59:20 Medar: great 16:59:53 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:02 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 17:07:35 TZer0: You updated that script too? 17:08:11 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10:03 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:10:30 Medar: which script? D: 17:10:35 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:44 To copy client.html over automatically 17:10:47 I just manually copied it. 17:11:18 |amethyst updated it in his git repo few days ago, let's see 17:12:09 <|amethyst> TZer0, joosa: a new commit in my dgamelaunch-config repo to update client.html on trunk update: https://github.com/neilmoore/dgamelaunch-config/ 17:12:15 <|amethyst> TZer0, joosa: there's another commit just beneath that that switches default back to trunk, but you don't need that one. The one you need is f507acb4e7 "Copy webtiles client.html on trunk install." 17:13:45 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:13 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:35 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:14:59 It's not like this is urgent at all btw. :) 17:15:36 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:33 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:16:35 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:16:43 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:41 -!- Grunt has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19:35 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:44 -!- Poncheis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:40 Medar: pulled and messed around with merging 17:20:43 should be fine? 17:20:53 Do I need to do something specific after that? 17:22:39 <|amethyst> TZer0: do an update 17:22:46 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:22:59 <|amethyst> of trunk, that is 17:23:16 so in .13 and trunk is pumping str be better than dex for damage? 17:23:23 <|amethyst> TZer0: triggering one mysefl 17:23:30 <|amethyst> TZer0: (I guess you fixed that :) 17:24:05 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2126-g048af07 (34) 17:24:26 |amethyst: running already. 17:24:40 <|amethyst> oh 17:24:41 <|amethyst> doh 17:24:51 <|amethyst> I triggered the wrong server 17:24:58 :) 17:24:59 |amethyst: :D 17:25:05 I did it through my terminal 17:25:10 so don't trigger another 17:25:16 <|amethyst> TZer0: last time I tried doing an update on clan, I got the "locked, already updating" message 17:25:35 I'll check that out once it is updated. 17:25:50 that is 17:25:55 once it has stopped updating 17:26:01 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 17:26:15 <|amethyst> TZer0: do you have the sudo rules for www-data to run dgl update-trunk and dgl-update-stable * ? 17:26:29 <|amethyst> (or whatever user your web server is running as) 17:26:34 <|amethyst> TZer0: I have 17:26:38 <|amethyst> www-data ALL=(crawl-dev) NOPASSWD: \ /home/crawl-dev/dgamelaunch-config/bin/dgl update-trunk, \ /home/crawl-dev/dgamelaunch-config/bin/dgl update-stable * 17:26:54 same. 17:26:58 but wait 17:27:02 shouldn't that be www-data? 17:27:26 I'll tell you when it is done compiling 17:27:29 so we can test this 17:27:30 <|amethyst> as opposed to what? 17:27:40 crawl-dev 17:27:47 <|amethyst> from www-data to crawl-dev 17:28:03 <|amethyst> the part in parens is the destination user name 17:28:41 www-data ALL=(crawl-dev) NOPASSWD: /home/crawl-dev/dgamelaunch-config/bin/dgl update-trunk, /home/crawl-dev/dgamelaunch-config/bin/dgl update-stable * 17:28:46 I had that anyway. 17:28:55 <|amethyst> yeah, that's right 17:30:58 -!- Il_Vallentino has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:31:13 You can test the rebuild on this 17:31:42 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2127-g387bd68: Ask login if necessary when starting WebTiles game 10(2 days ago, 4 files, 108+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=387bd6833a4c 17:31:42 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2128-g930cbe7: Allow logging in while watching someone 10(2 days ago, 4 files, 41+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=930cbe78bae9 17:32:43 That needs WebTiles server update again, to be fully functional. But nothing should break without it. 17:33:55 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2128-g930cbe7 (34) 17:36:15 <|amethyst> Medar: the chat one seems to work, but the spectator list doesn't update the names 17:36:23 <|amethyst> Medar: 17:36:24 Yeah, that needs the update 17:36:32 *restart 17:36:38 I killed Erolcha without knowing 17:36:47 <|amethyst> ah 17:37:03 <|amethyst> does the first one need a restart to work? 17:37:07 Yep. 17:37:30 Should really get on that graceful restart patch :) 17:40:18 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2126-g048af07 (34) 17:40:20 heh, I see you picked the SamB game to test too :p 17:40:33 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:42:59 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:43:22 The new CSZO location seems unbearable slow to me. Guess that doesn't matter anymore though. 17:43:28 Probably some routing issue. 17:43:44 Takes like half a minute to open up a game (if no cache) 17:44:08 Ok, apparently that was only 20 seconds. 17:45:05 <|amethyst> yeah, horrible packet loss 17:45:16 <|amethyst> but the other two IPs on the machine are usually fine 17:45:31 <|amethyst> and have half the latency 17:45:47 Hmh. :\ 17:45:57 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:46:40 <|amethyst> 32 packets transmitted, 22 packets received, 31% packet loss 17:46:40 <|amethyst> round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 94.429/98.356/111.210/3.855 ms 17:47:08 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:47:14 <|amethyst> though actually right now I'm seeing some packet loss to the other IPs 17:47:34 <|amethyst> 30 packets transmitted, 27 packets received, 10% packet loss 17:47:35 <|amethyst> round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 50.623/54.049/67.413/4.545 ms 17:47:53 Well that's horrible. 17:47:57 <|amethyst> 31 packets transmitted, 30 packets received, 3% packet loss 17:47:58 <|amethyst> round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 50.400/52.479/65.385/2.570 ms 17:48:05 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:48:33 <|amethyst> the only explanation I can think of is per-IP traffic shaping 17:48:58 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 17:49:00 <|amethyst> they're on the same ethernet card 17:51:00 I get high loss on xe-7-0-0.atl11.ip4.tinet.net, which is 7th out of 10 hops 17:51:15 <|amethyst> I get loss at cogent too 17:51:23 for both dobrazupa.org and crawl.s-z.org 17:52:27 <|amethyst> same for admin.dobrazupa.org? 17:52:34 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:46 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 17:53:26 hrm, debugging Roshnak's save failure would be a bitch: it's a bug _somewhere_ in marshalling or unmarshalling level chunks, but no idea where 17:53:39 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:39 what about peppering it with canaries? 17:54:19 admin.dobrazupa.org too 17:54:25 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:53 kilobyte: i should be able to debug in MSVC 17:57:23 -!- mumra_ is now known as mumra 17:57:28 mumra_: the problem is, if you have an insertion in deletion in the middle of the chunk, the rest will happily read garbage 17:57:37 and not fail until the end 17:58:07 I added a bunch of validating asserts some time ago, but mostly for the player chunk 17:58:20 <|amethyst> yeah, I do think that would be good 17:58:23 and even then they're too few and too likely to accept a false positive 18:00:38 hrm, there were no marshalling changes for a month 18:01:45 mumra: in bdcc6e9685841be4a29bafd2271c0a9ed4a500a1, why did you remove the #ifdefing for POT_WATER and STAFF_CHANNELING? 18:02:02 %git bdcc6e9685841 18:02:02 07mumra * 0.13-a0-1719-gbdcc6e9: Migrate existing Boxes of Beasts with some charges 10(4 weeks ago, 2 files, 10+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bdcc6e968584 18:02:28 kilobyte: i thought it was surrounded by an #ifdef already 18:02:29 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:41 an 18:02:45 an #if sorry 18:03:07 <|amethyst> ah, it is 18:03:13 yeah 18:03:57 should've made that a separate commit really 18:07:39 for canaries, a single byte is probably enough 18:07:50 could look like magic values, though 18:07:58 kilobyte: during some testing i've found a slight problem with giving rods different base types; you can guess from the stats in the description what rod it might be 18:08:46 having an enum for canaries would be an overkill, probably 18:08:46 kilobyte: so maybe the options are a) pre-identify all rods or b) keep them all the same weapon type (maybe better than club though) and just stick with brands to vary them 18:09:31 mumra: or not show the stats in non-id description 18:09:43 irrelevant until you wield them 18:09:51 kilobyte: tru 18:09:56 s/u/ue/ 18:10:05 or, solution c): remove sticky curses other than an Ashenzari ability :p 18:10:14 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I was thinking to use the same number for the canary each time, and to assert if it is wrong 18:10:17 -!- lasserith has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 18:10:27 -!- Vandal has quit [] 18:10:59 <|amethyst> and a one-enumerator enum would be kind of strange. 18:11:15 kilobyte: by c) you mean not using rods for melee basically? 18:11:20 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:28 -!- reaver has left ##crawl-dev 18:11:34 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:42 |amethyst: ah right, a canary entirely missing would be found just as well 18:12:08 mumra: no, removing sticky curses from all item types 18:12:18 (quite a bigger proposal than the rest) 18:12:22 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:28 i'm not sure how that would change this? 18:13:05 no reason to keep any id-on-wield 18:13:21 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:13:35 -!- psuedo has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:13:54 other than plain mummies (irrelevant in most places), all sticky curses do is stop you from wield-iding random stuff you find on the ground 18:14:29 ah right, yeah 18:15:29 hiding that part of the description is much easier for now :) 18:16:01 So my WebTiles minibar fix causes minibars be drawn on levels you are not on. 18:16:17 -!- Tollymain has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:24 Tried to figure out how on earth the local tiles code is avoiding it for a while... until I checked and the bug is there too :) 18:18:19 -!- Wolfram_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:27:07 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:14 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:28:56 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Client Quit] 18:29:32 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:34 hehe 18:31:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:32:29 i thought i'd seen that before, guess it's not really a very noticable thing unless you're looking for minibar bugs :) 18:34:36 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:25 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:35:38 mumra: Do you remember what WebTiles menus you've seen stuck on screen? Just anything? 18:35:48 inventory definitely 18:36:10 Ok, thanks. So it's not only crt menus at least. 18:38:54 -!- blackcustard has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:41:01 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:48:42 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:49:03 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:58 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:57:18 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:18 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2129-g5d39a2d: Fix minibars showing on levels without the player 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5d39a2d61c55 18:58:18 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2130-g5407d3d: Fix the minibar bug on WebTiles too 10(3 minutes ago, 5 files, 17+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5407d3d89cb8 18:58:28 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:59:37 -!- smajdalf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:00:57 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:02:22 One of these days I'm going to fix a bug without finding an another one 19:04:59 -!- kirisa has joined ##crawl-dev 19:05:10 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:05:50 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:05:51 excuse me, on which source code file may i view what do "song of slaying" do? 19:12:10 -!- ystael has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:19 -!- |amethyst has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:39 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:05 <|amethyst> kirisa: several places, search for SONG_OF_SLAYING 19:13:33 <|amethyst> kirisa: casting it is in spl-selfench.cc but that just does setup 19:13:43 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:14:05 <|amethyst> other places include mon-stuff.cc and player.cc 19:14:26 |amethyst: thanks 19:14:32 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:52 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:46 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:24 -!- Aponym has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:22:42 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 19:23:29 -!- ColdPie has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:24:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:00 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 19:29:11 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:33:05 -!- ColdPie has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:21 -!- Tollymain has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:14 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:27 -!- bh_ is now known as bh 19:41:32 * bh cowers 19:41:36 no messages? 19:41:38 phew 19:42:01 * Zannick constructs a message for bh 19:42:46 Zannick: instead, how about you make Gargoyles more interesting? 19:43:13 * Zannick writes a patch to make gargoyles explode upon dying 19:43:55 i don't understand why self-petrigy of gargoyles is removed 19:44:11 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:14 kirisa: no one used it 19:44:27 bh 19:44:38 It was a "kill me" switch 19:44:39 bh: i thought it was a good early-game ability 19:44:53 which became irrelevant around XL4 19:45:02 but yes, somewhat "kill me" switch.... 19:45:18 fine, i got it now 19:45:26 bh: Maybe give them perma-stasis, like this species here? https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8298 19:45:45 are dwants going to happen? 19:48:13 0.13 "All the Species You Could Ever Dwant" 19:48:47 i liked the gargoyle proposal that they have two modes you can toggle 19:48:57 fleshy, human-like mode with normal speed 19:49:06 and slow-but-tough 19:49:39 so you can hulk out to beat up guys but it limits your escape options 19:49:53 -!- reaver has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:50:16 ontoclasm: but that seems to intrude into DD territory 19:50:26 bh: If dwants were to get merged before my jump, I'm not sure what I'd do, but it'd be drastic 19:50:30 *jump patch 19:51:05 -!- runner has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:51:16 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:29 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 19:51:30 bh: hm? howso? 19:51:40 i would've thought it intruded on vampires more 19:52:07 ontoclasm: But vampires are never slow 19:52:10 `get tougher` seems to do the same thing as damage reduction 19:52:14 Nor are DD 19:53:02 Yeah, and LO currently do the slow but tough thing when not fired up 19:53:26 bh: sorry about being disconnected. On dwants, mumra said "Basically a feature should only be tested directly in trunk if at least one member of the devteam is interested enough in it to take a certain amount of responsibility for its merging, maintenance, and possible removal. Unfortunately, no matter how many members of the community supported an idea, or what the results of a poll were, nothing can happen without actual dev supp 19:53:55 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:54:09 yeah, that response makes total sense 19:54:35 the fuel that powers crawl development is dev goodwill 19:54:54 ontoclasm: I'd go one further. crawl is fueled by server admin goodwill 19:55:01 mm, that too 19:56:58 autostasis is kind of interesting, though 19:57:37 -!- ophanim has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:57:42 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:59:18 ??quasit 19:59:18 quasit[1/1]: A weakish demon which moves very quickly, has high evasion, and resists all elements except lightning. Drains dexterity in melee, but does little damage and can be killed easily enough despite the resists. Also rather low MR. Doesn't fly. 19:59:22 quasit (155) | Spd: 13 | HD: 3 | HP: 6-24 | AC/EV: 5/17 | Dam: 305(drain dexterity), 205(drain dexterity), 205(drain dexterity) | 05demonic | Res: 06magic(5), 05fire, 02cold, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 45 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 19:59:22 %??quasit 19:59:42 is a quasit an imp? 19:59:46 lemure (085) | Spd: 12 | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Dam: 5, 3, 3 | 05demonic, 10doors, regen | Res: 06magic(8), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 13 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 19:59:46 %??lemure 19:59:49 ??lemure 19:59:50 lemure[1/2]: Not the weakest of the 5s. Faster than the average player and cannot fly. 19:59:54 bh: I think so. 20:00:33 no, it's a quasit 20:00:40 bh: If by "imp" you mean "5", then yes. 20:00:42 sure, but is a quasit a type of imp? 20:00:54 MarvinPA: I want to make all the imps have the same species 20:01:19 not just genus? 20:01:33 kilobyte: because I got those backward. 20:01:47 a quasit is a D&Dism 20:01:49 might make sense, with demon mutability 20:01:51 can't get it with call imp 20:01:52 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:01:54 what genus are quasits now? quasit? 20:01:58 they're like imps but not 20:02:02 ontoclasm: yep 20:02:04 pseudoimps 20:03:03 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:10 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:53 the evil plan is to give demons a common set of genuses to allow them to interconvert with poly 20:04:37 bh: God help us all 20:04:44 currently the tier is used, which is not that good 20:04:47 Or whatever deity you worship, if any 20:05:02 bh: you don't have to specify when your plans are "evil," it's redundant 20:05:13 ontoclasm: hahaha 20:05:18 Lightli: I was raised by a family of Xom acolytes 20:05:29 ontoclasm: <3 20:05:35 how are you still alive 20:05:45 Lightli: Xom thinks this is hilarious. 20:06:16 ??hellion 20:06:16 hellion[1/1]: A very dangerous greater demon. Hellfire, hellfire, and more hellfire, and moves enough faster than you that it often double hellfires. 20:06:19 hellion (052) | Spd: 12 | HD: 7 | HP: 27-54 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(65), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 602 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 20:06:19 %??hellion 20:06:36 ??hell beast 20:06:36 hell beast[1/2]: Stats are random. Speed: 10-17. AC: 2-6. EV: 7-11. HD: 4-7. Tramples. 20:06:40 hell beast (072) | Spd: 10-17 | HD: 6 | HP: 40-97 | AC/EV: 4/9 | Dam: 28, 2007(trample) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(24), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 277 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 20:06:40 %??hell beast 20:07:29 ??ynoxinul 20:07:30 ynoxinul[1/1]: Probably the fifth most dangerous of the common demons; casts painful iron bolts, and if you try to run away summons ufetubi (which move faster than you and are hard to kill - rapid immobilization) 20:07:31 |amethyst: about save canaries, what interface would you suggest? It'd need to be a macro (to pass __LINE__), but there has to be a way to pass the minimal save tag. 20:08:00 ??soul eater 20:08:00 soul eater[1/1]: A nasty 3, with high ac, draining melee, and an line-of-sight range vampiric draining spell. 20:08:06 i'm super pissed about the ??ynoxinul entry 20:08:15 |amethyst: yet we don't want to write it when needed, as after a major version bump it will be redundant 20:08:21 ??hellwing 20:08:22 hellwing[1/2]: A type 4 demon; it teleports self, teleports other, animates dead, and doesn't even pose a melee threat except to pre-weakened characters. Used to be a 3 before 0.6. 20:09:17 |amethyst: it's mostly about a default argument to the macro... hard to do as the only argument 20:09:36 ??ynoxinul 20:09:37 ynoxinul[1/1]: Probably the fifth most dangerous of the common demons; casts painful iron bolts, and if you try to run away summons ufetubi (which move faster than you and are hard to kill - rapid immobilization) 20:10:26 the fifth most dangerous exactly 20:10:58 how about this for a demon: slow, summons weak, fast chaff, then magically swaps place with the chaff 20:12:13 -!- Roarke has quit [Client Quit] 20:12:37 bh:That pretty close to a revenant, isn't it? 20:12:49 ??revenant 20:12:50 revenant[1/1]: A Crypt monster with {ghostly_fireball}, {ghostly_flames}, {dispel_undead}, and {blink_away}. Spectrals from ghostly flames can push past it, so try not to get pinned by them in corridors. 20:12:52 oh 20:12:58 new crypt? 20:13:02 bh: yeah 20:13:32 <|amethyst> kilobyte: doesn't it need th as a parameter anyway? or would it just assume it was called th? 20:14:08 Mastered skill, did not take me to menu to choose new skill to train by tcjsavannah 20:14:17 <|amethyst> kilobyte: actually, I'm not sure you'd need a minimal save tag parameter 20:15:04 <|amethyst> kilobyte: when major == 34 that would be the minor tag that introduces canaries, and when major > 34 it would be 0 20:15:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2131-gf2d916f: Demonic Taxonomy 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 33+ 28-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f2d916f53646 20:15:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: if a particular canary is added later, it can be protected with an #if if(){} #endif just like everything else 20:16:57 hmm, perhaps 20:18:12 bh: why are some 2s "demons" and some still just the same species as their genus? 20:19:46 also you missed a fiend (brimstone) 20:22:50 didn't you mean to set genus rather than species? 20:23:36 oh heh that too 20:26:31 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:27:30 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2132-g293a9bd: Fix tiles rendering issue changing between levels 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=293a9bd91fcd 20:30:09 -!- kirisa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:31:15 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:26 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:32:48 where's brimstone 20:32:52 and hell sentinel 20:33:35 Lightli: Hell sentinel's aren't fiends, brimstone's exclusion was a mistake. 20:33:46 oh 20:35:45 clearly vault sentinels and hell sentinels are related 20:37:03 kilobyte: gah. 20:37:21 MarvinPA: because for a first pass I wasn't sure which were devils, fiends or demons 20:38:26 bh: I'd say you should probably make everything in a single number glyph the same, to avoid even more polymorph spoilers. 20:38:42 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:43 (away for real) 20:38:55 -!- Nomi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:19 -!- reaver has left ##crawl-dev 20:41:04 -!- reaver has quit [] 20:41:13 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 20:41:25 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:28 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:59:03 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 21:01:00 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:01:43 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:02:49 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 21:02:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 21:05:46 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:07:40 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:37 -!- lasserith has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:10:09 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:15:06 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 21:19:00 bh: you consistently have genus and species backwards. 21:19:05 bh: genus is the *first* field, not the second 21:19:05 . 21:19:41 (I see someone else already pointed that out <_<) 21:27:37 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:31:29 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:32:04 -!- GRAVITATION has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:37:21 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:01 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:16 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:45 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:52:28 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:02:17 Roshnak the Conqueror (L27 OgBe) ASSERT((int)levels_seen <= brdepth[branch]) in 'place-info.cc' at line 34 failed on turn 47281. (D:27) 22:04:51 <|amethyst> oop 22:05:08 <|amethyst> that's the save I "fixed" for Roshnak by deleting the D:17 chunk 22:05:24 <|amethyst> wasn't considering that 22:07:06 Roshnak the Conqueror (L27 OgBe) ASSERT((int)levels_seen <= brdepth[branch]) in 'place-info.cc' at line 34 failed on turn 47255. (D:27) 22:07:24 <|amethyst> !lm Roshnak x=tiles 22:07:24 3570. [2013-06-28 03:07:05] [tiles=true] Roshnak the Conqueror (L27 OgBe) ASSERT((int)levels seen <= brdepth[branch]) in 'place-info.cc' at line 34 failed on turn 47255. (D:27) 22:09:22 Roshnak the Conqueror (L27 OgBe) ASSERT((int)levels_seen <= brdepth[branch]) in 'place-info.cc' at line 34 failed on turn 46851. (D:27) 22:09:50 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:59 -!- knaveightt has quit [Quit: cast to the abyss] 22:12:15 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:06 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:15:05 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:52 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:25 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:26:51 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:28:02 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:29:23 kilobyte, Grunt doh 22:29:23 bh: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 22:29:37 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 22:29:39 <|amethyst> also, don't you need dummy monsters for the genera? 22:29:42 !messages 22:29:43 (1/3) tenofswords said (1h 13m 57s ago): I think there is opposition to polymoth because even though it is a very flashy and distinct effect that has lots of interesting implications it is also a type of polymorph that ignores previous polymorph rules (classes) 22:29:58 !messages 22:29:59 (1/2) tenofswords said (1h 13m 36s ago): and more importantly means something different for literally every non-undead non-living monster in the game, which makes it the most spoiler-heavy monster possible 22:30:07 !messages 22:30:07 (1/1) tenofswords said (1h 12m 54s ago): as fun as it is to come up with random sinister examples of mechanics it's also nice to have something, say, easily understood in results, so I'd really, really prefer just giving it randomized always-higher-hd mass polymorph monsters 22:31:34 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:35:47 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:14 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:02 <|amethyst> bh: are you working on the genus fixes or should I? 22:37:07 I'm on it 22:37:36 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:37:49 5 -> imp, 4 -> devil, 3 -> demon, 4 -> ???, 5 -> fiend 22:38:18 greater demon? 22:38:28 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:38:36 is demon really a good genus? 22:38:52 gammafunk: it's more of a bad genus 22:39:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_demons 22:39:57 i like how you went 5->4->3->4->5 22:40:03 is it a catch-all for really weird demons, or something? 22:40:24 <|amethyst> I'm not sure I agree about putting all demons of the same number in the same genus 22:40:29 WalkerBoh: pay no attention to the man behind the curtain 22:40:31 <|amethyst> I mean, I see the reason for that 22:40:51 <|amethyst> but it seems like there could be other problems, e.g. calling an ice devil a demon instead of a devil 22:41:40 true 22:41:52 how about I just back out my patch and we can think more about this? 22:42:09 just go for 4 classes of demons instead of 5 22:42:39 bh: Is the aim so that you can have some notion of similarity based on flavor of the monster, so that you can poly a weaker thing to a strong thing with the same flavor? 22:42:57 gammafunk: both, mostly the former 22:43:14 so that the monster list doesn't say "2 crimson imps / 3 shadow imps" and instead says "5 imps" 22:43:27 ah 22:43:43 <|amethyst> bh: for a first pass just swapping genus/species to the right place and adding the dummies would be fine, but if you don't think you can have that done in an hour (when many of the servers update) reverting it may be better 22:44:02 |amethyst: I'll revert it 22:44:55 part of the problem is when you look at things that have 'devil' in their name, there's not necessarily any real similarity 22:45:02 like rotting devil vs. red devil? 22:45:32 <|amethyst> someone, I don't remember who, did a big graph of monster/genus/species relationships a year or so ago 22:45:39 devils have british accents, that's the commonality 22:45:40 -!- santiago has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:50 ontoclasm: haha 22:46:26 aren't they supposed to play the violin too 22:46:29 <|amethyst> gammafunk: well, you could argue that titans and cyclopes and fire giants don't have much in common 22:46:42 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2133-ge955d09: Revert "Demonic Taxonomy" 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 28+ 33-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e955d0971ce5 22:46:44 <|amethyst> SamB: ITYM "fiddle" 22:46:46 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:59 I suppose I do mean fiddle 22:47:17 sometimes I forget that the same object can be two different things 22:47:24 |amethyst: I'm saying that demons with 'devil' in their name don't necessarily have anything in common other than being demons 22:48:38 Those monsters are arguably similar only in that they're giant humanoids, but they also don't share any common word in their names 22:50:02 <|amethyst> hm 22:50:21 <|amethyst> not all MONS_DEMON or MONS_IMP have those words in the name either 22:50:32 <|amethyst> but I do see your point 22:50:54 I don't think the 5's are sufficiently distinguished for any of them to *not* be imps 22:51:11 quasits and imps are annoying little sacks of HP 22:51:26 yeah, for t-5 the grouping is nicer to have. Not sure I'd want to just see a list of saying '3 fiends' though 22:51:47 *Not sure I'd want to see a list just saying 22:52:20 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: yaaargh] 22:52:31 mhmm. I basically always want to know if there's a smoke demon 22:52:38 <|amethyst> well 22:52:41 !lg * ckiller=rotting_devil max=xl 22:52:42 66. Garfeldt the Tortoise (L18 MiCK), worshipper of Xom, slain by a rotting devil (summoned by a deep elf sorcerer) on Elf:3 on 2012-08-17 23:42:06, with 184210 points after 38424 turns and 7:12:14. 22:52:44 <|amethyst> the monster list doesn't compress by genus 22:52:52 <|amethyst> just comes into view lists and the like 22:53:02 oh, derp! 22:53:09 but guess which one doesn't ever fit on the screen properly 22:53:49 A whole lot of very, very bad things come into view. 22:53:52 <|amethyst> hey, if you don't like tinyterm you don't have to use it 22:54:08 but ##crawl always makes fun of me if I use "hugeterm" 22:54:14 well, if they find out 22:54:15 <|amethyst> Personally, I think it makes more sense for genera to cut across ranks 22:54:25 <|amethyst> SamB: actually, it means they won't TV you 22:54:32 <|amethyst> SamB: so in the long run you get made fun of less 22:54:38 hmm 22:54:44 if it only works with "comes into view", it isn't all that useful 22:55:07 <|amethyst> monster list is very picky about compressing 22:55:23 <|amethyst> it only combines things if they sort equal under monster_info::less_than 22:57:10 I guess using the phrases 'tier N' demons in the monster list would be too confusing for the player 22:57:18 hmm, now I have to edit my rc 22:57:33 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:58:11 could just be "minor" "common" and "major" demons 22:58:45 "3 common demons come into view." sounds kind of stupid, though 22:59:00 "3 household demons" 22:59:04 5 garden demons 22:59:12 making rcfile warning worse is a bad change 22:59:15 <|amethyst> oh 22:59:37 3 lesser demons 22:59:47 <|amethyst> one more thing genera influence: whether a monster will move aside to let another shoot a ranged attack 22:59:52 (though case-insensitivity exists so this may be a lost cause) 23:00:13 <|amethyst> also pushing aside 23:00:33 <|amethyst> rchandra: well, you already have "5 humans come into view" 23:00:34 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:00:58 yes, unfr that. 23:01:24 when I get around to putting _more_ on convoker that would be bad. 23:01:32 I don't think this is a worthwhile change 23:01:50 <|amethyst> allied spellcasting 23:01:55 (except maybe imps) 23:02:17 <|amethyst> I think genus should reflect "are these the same kind of thing" 23:02:33 <|amethyst> and shouldn't really be decided based on UI issues 23:02:39 -!- ahahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:02:50 <|amethyst> the UI issues can be fixed in a different way if necessary 23:03:05 kind of thing meaning flavor based on some notion of biology/appearence? 23:03:23 <|amethyst> yeah 23:03:43 I was wondering if some notion of 'apparition' or 'ghostly' would work for demons 23:03:49 some demons seem more undead 23:03:49 <|amethyst> e.g. dragons are one genus, bears are one genus, hounds are one genus 23:03:52 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 23:05:02 shadow fiend, loro, shadow demon, reaper, executioner, rotting devils have kind of an undead flavour 23:05:17 soul eater as well 23:05:20 <|amethyst> gammafunk: well, there are the four broad classes 23:05:27 <|amethyst> "undead", fire, ice, and iron 23:05:36 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:05:37 how about "3 5s" 23:05:44 and sixifrwhateveryouspellthem 23:06:00 <|amethyst> yeah, not everything fits one of those 23:06:00 |amethyst: I guess also air, but there's only sixfirhy 23:06:11 <|amethyst> gammafunk: air doesn't have its own hell :) 23:06:20 fr: air hell 23:06:50 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 23:06:57 there's perhaps eldritch: neqo, cacodemon, chaos spawn? 23:07:29 <|amethyst> shadow, fire, ice, iron, (chaos) 23:08:16 poison might not work well: just lemur and green death 23:08:16 gammafunk: easy, Qatar Airways 23:08:23 haha 23:08:34 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:08:57 orange demon could sort of be poison 23:09:44 If it was something like 'disease', orange and quasit, together with lemur and green death 23:10:09 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:10:12 but that's perhaps not well-based on the 'kind of thing' idea, just damage type 23:10:57 -!- qoala_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:11:44 <|amethyst> yeah 23:12:06 <|amethyst> ??genus 23:12:07 genus[1/1]: Monsters are arranged into genera (plural of genus). Monsters in the same genus are represented by the same letter. The main game significance of this is that different monsters in the same genus won't be distinguished by Detect Monsters. 23:12:58 -!- absolutego has quit [Client Quit] 23:13:25 <|amethyst> !learn add genus Monsters of the same genus will also move aside to make room for one another 23:13:25 genus[2/2]: Monsters of the same genus will also move aside to make room for one another 23:13:27 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 23:14:01 -!- qoala has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:14:53 <|amethyst> !learn edit genus[2] s/$/, and will cast beneficial spells at one another./ 23:14:53 genus[2/2]: Monsters of the same genus will also move aside to make room for one another, and will cast beneficial spells at one another. 23:15:51 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:16:48 |amethyst: did you see tenofswords's polymoth suggestion? 23:16:59 <|amethyst> yeah 23:17:14 I think it makes sense 23:17:18 <|amethyst> I do think that giving monsters classes is weird 23:17:26 <|amethyst> and I agree with the spoiler issue 23:17:48 <|amethyst> well 23:18:15 <|amethyst> the spoiler issue isn't *so* bad, since in general it's pretty obvious right now whether things are the same genus 23:18:21 <|amethyst> there are a few questionable cases 23:20:14 <|amethyst> lindwurms being MONS_DRAKE for example 23:21:10 <|amethyst> and MONS_WRAITH vs MONS_GHOST 23:22:08 <|amethyst> porcupines are MONS_RAT 23:23:59 In biology it helps that there's a hierarchy in the taxonomy 23:24:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 23:24:16 Well, more than just genus and species, I mean 23:24:34 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:04 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:07 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:25:07 We need a detailed phylogenetic tree for the demos 23:25:13 *demons 23:25:22 yeah, I'm fine with his proposal. It makes it less gimmicky and spoily 23:25:59 <|amethyst> gammafunk: you could build one... treat each resistance, attack flavour, flag, glyph, etc as a character 23:26:33 <|amethyst> gammafunk: feed it into some phylogenetics software 23:26:51 |amethyst: haha, yeah, I suppose you could. That almost seems like a great task for the forum 23:26:52 <|amethyst> you could even get an estimate for how long ago they diverged :) 23:28:34 crawl taxonomy improvement taskforce 23:28:44 |amethyst: do it! 23:28:54 we don't have any other biologists on the team 23:29:13 <|amethyst> I'm not a biologist, I just work with them 23:29:24 <|amethyst> rchandra: 23:29:25 <|amethyst> %git :/mycologist 23:29:27 07|amethyst * 0.11-a0-1969-gb400b11: Giant spores are fungi. 10(1 year, 1 month ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b400b11c33a4 23:30:03 can we remove item destruction? 23:30:33 <|amethyst> not without something to replace it I think 23:31:00 if (preservation) { carry items } else { drop some items} 23:31:23 temporary item destruction was a cool sounding idea from the forum 23:31:38 rchandra: like your potions could freeze and thaw out? 23:31:52 <|amethyst> rchandra: it would have to be at a much higher rate than currently 23:31:56 bh: a stack of them would be unusable for a bit, yeah 23:32:08 <|amethyst> oh, whole stacks could work 23:32:12 so now you can't teleport, say. 23:32:18 yeah it needs to be whole stacks 23:32:36 wasn't this already discussed at length in here? 23:32:44 how would you deal with getting an item while a stack was frozen/flaming? 23:32:46 quite possibly! 23:32:59 <|amethyst> should there be some disadvantage to carrying around acquirement, beneficial mut, etc? 23:33:16 bh: it goes in the stack and can't be used 23:33:29 <|amethyst> rchandra: that seems fiddly 23:33:35 |amethyst: not really. The only reason to carry them is if you <3 jiyva 23:33:43 <|amethyst> rchandra: unless you aren't allowed to drop the burning stack 23:33:45 not merging it is more fiddly 23:33:59 what if we made it so you couldn't drop the stack? 23:34:01 would that be mean? 23:34:15 how does dropping the stack help? 23:34:29 <|amethyst> rchandra: drop the bad stack then pick up the new item 23:34:32 If you drop the stack and pick up a non-frozen potion 23:34:32 yeah 23:34:35 oh. eww 23:34:51 <|amethyst> that's what I meant by "fiddly" 23:35:08 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:15 alternate implementation: can't read anything while on 'fire' 23:35:20 and similar status for cold 23:35:45 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:46 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:55 <|amethyst> of course it can't be "on fire" 23:36:00 <|amethyst> since we already have that 23:36:14 smoldering? 23:36:30 <|amethyst> -Scroll 23:36:45 it's sort of a fire/cold curse or hex 23:36:50 <|amethyst> (okay, that doesn't help with the flavour text) 23:37:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:16 freezing word_for_a_bad_magical_aura 23:37:46 <|amethyst> well, it's not just magic that causes item destruction though 23:37:53 <|amethyst> so does a perfectly normal forest fire 23:38:20 <|amethyst> hm 23:38:23 yeah, but you'd pretty much have to abandon a purely physical notion, I think 23:38:26 <|amethyst> What about harpies and giant spores? 23:38:52 food destruction is less annoying 23:39:06 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:39:10 stubbing your toe versus crashing your car 23:40:17 very time a scroll burns, god causes a car crash 23:40:19 *every 23:40:47 <|amethyst> We're still making up for the Library of Alexandria 23:41:39 but if the library is infinite, the loss of one scroll matters not. 23:41:59 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:42:26 <|amethyst> bh: remove 0 from the real number line and it's no longer a connected space 23:42:46 |amethyst: you been hanging with Dem Bones? 23:42:53 <|amethyst> :P 23:43:56 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2133-ge955d09 (34) 23:44:19 <|amethyst> (okay, we made up for the library of alexandria by the 30s probably) 23:44:34 what about acid destroying gear? 23:44:57 <|amethyst> it doesn't 23:45:03 <|amethyst> it destroys your enchant scrolls :P 23:46:24 |amethyst: what if giant spores cause nausea? 23:46:31 <|amethyst> what's nausea? 23:46:45 ??nausea 23:46:45 nausea[1/2]: New status effect in 0.10, replaces sickness from contaminated chunks (but not sickness from other sources). While it is active, you can't eat unless you are starving or near starving (and you only get half nutrition then). Gone in .13. 23:46:48 <|amethyst> in all seriousness, I don't think corrosion is as bad as consumable destruction 23:46:59 I don't disagree 23:47:05 it'll annoy you, but it won't make you dead 23:47:22 <|amethyst> and you can probably find a replacement 23:47:22 corrosion really seems to get some people mad, for some reason, but I've never had much problem with it 23:47:27 the only really awful corrosion is yellow drac breath 23:47:28 <|amethyst> unless you're with nemelex or jiyva 23:47:37 ....i can't make this spirit wolf not look like a spirit cat 23:47:47 I guess I came from netback-style corrosion, which is so much nastier, that I don't mind crawl's corrosion 23:47:53 fucking mammals all look the goddamn same 23:48:03 <|amethyst> I knew it! 23:48:11 crawl motto: not as cruel as nethack 23:48:23 <|amethyst> !learn add reptilian_devteam <+ontoclasm> fucking mammals all look the goddamn same 23:48:24 reptilian devteam[1/1]: <+ontoclasm> fucking mammals all look the goddamn same 23:48:40 haha 23:49:27 <|amethyst> !learn add ontoclasm see {reptilian devteam} 23:49:28 ontoclasm[6/6]: see {reptilian devteam} 23:50:18 Sadly, my removal rant from the other day is probably too big to fit in a learndb entry :b 23:51:10 !bh[3] 23:51:14 ??bh[3] 23:51:15 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:15 I don't have a page labeled bh[3] in my learndb. 23:51:34 Can only the dev team modify learned? I had thought it was publicly editable 23:51:40 It is. 23:51:48 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it is, but only in public 23:51:57 haha, that's funny 23:52:01 <|amethyst> (nor can devs modify it in private) 23:52:08 <|amethyst> well 23:52:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:52:19 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:52:33 <|amethyst> not unless they bribe me or rax or greensnark or someone else with access to the learndb 23:52:45 I'll have to add magic point's entry when I'm in ##crawl sometime and she complains about having no entry again 23:53:09 who's magic point? 23:53:59 <|amethyst> !lg magicpoints s=src,tiles,cv 23:53:59 405 games for magicpoints: 403x cszo (304x false (203x 0.13-a, 101x 0.12), 99x true (85x 0.12-a, 14x 0.13-a)), clan (true (0.13-a)), cdo (false (0.13-a)) 23:54:05 just a crawl regular 23:54:18 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:29 -!- lainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:54:30 !lg magicpoints won 23:54:30 14. magicpoints the Naga Ballista (L27 NaBe), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-06-11 05:13:23, with 1544805 points after 89172 turns and 7:51:43. 23:54:33 but she fell into lava in the tourney after casting tornado in abyss (on the winning team, no less) 23:54:38 so that'll be her entry 23:54:39 dang, she's good 23:54:48 gammafunk: you can add in here too 23:54:54 this counts as public 23:55:28 !learn add magicpionts Casts tornado, falls into lava 23:55:29 magicpionts[1/1]: Casts tornado, falls into lava 23:55:32 there we go 23:55:45 dang it 23:55:48 <|amethyst> !learn mv magicpionts magicpoints 23:55:49 magicpionts -> magicpoints[1/1]: Casts tornado, falls into lava 23:55:54 gammafunk: perhaps you should phrase it closer to 'push button / receive bacon' 23:55:55 |amethyst: thank you 23:56:01 -!- platinum has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:56:59 bh: Clearly I'm not the world's best editor 23:59:12 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev