00:01:23 and on the sixth day, DracoOmega wrought crawl in his image. And it was good. 00:02:26 !learn add dracoomega and on the sixth day, DracoOmega wrought crawl in his image. And it was good. 00:02:27 dracoomega[4/4]: and on the sixth day, DracoOmega wrought crawl in his image. And it was good. 00:02:31 -!- myrmidette has left ##crawl-dev 00:02:46 !dracoomega 00:02:55 ??dracoomega 00:02:56 dracoomega[1/4]: Inventor of a wonderous assortment of new things, such as wretched stars and starcursed masses. Nice guy. Is uncool. 00:03:01 ??dracoomega[2] 00:03:02 dracoomega[2/4]: needs to ruin more things so we can hate him properly 00:03:04 ??dracoomega[3] 00:03:05 dracoomega[3/4]: Pushed three pages of commits moments after the 0.12 tournament ended. Revamped Crypt and buffed 4s 00:03:12 :-D 00:05:39 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2071-gf7884f7 (34) 00:05:56 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2062-g975aacb (34) 00:06:10 If it's nasty monsters, blame DracoOmega, if its nasty vaults, blame Grunt, most other things you're pretty safe just blaming mumra 00:06:46 not true 00:06:48 ??bh[2] 00:06:49 bh[2/2]: Grunt also has bad ideas. 00:06:52 HA 00:06:58 ??bh[1] 00:06:59 bh[1/2]: When it comes to stupid ideas, I'm your man. 00:07:22 sorry bh, how could I forget the abyss 00:07:50 wait till I merge my moths 00:07:51 but really that's not a stupid idea, just something players consider pretty nasty 00:08:05 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:25 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12.2-9-gf1dcfd2 (34) 00:09:10 bh: more moths? 00:09:25 how are we going to one-up moths of suppression in the pure evil category 00:09:27 Lightli: polymoth isn't in yet 00:09:37 that will do it 00:09:41 whoa. That's a way better name 00:09:54 seconded 00:10:03 -!- GRAVITATION has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:10:34 Once I figure out why it's generating uniques... 00:11:38 gammafunk: !!! 00:11:59 Do you deny it? :) 00:12:23 there are many other devs that share an equal responsibility of blame 00:12:26 what has mumra done that's bad? 00:12:29 he made new layouts 00:12:35 yeah I was kinda wondering that too 00:12:49 I mean, unless you like boring layouts ... !?!? 00:12:50 i think it's referring to me killing summoners 00:13:07 o_0 00:13:20 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2071-gf7884f7 (34) 00:13:23 bh hasn't been around for this i think 00:13:41 I go away for a weekend 00:13:45 did you nerf the number of summons? 00:13:50 bh: yup 00:13:55 er, mumra did 00:13:57 In moments of irrational rage, one wants a simple ruleset to follow for assigning blame. 00:14:01 3 per type? 00:14:06 i also pushed newskald 00:14:13 spammals rip? 00:14:16 ??newskald 00:14:17 i reckon these things balance out :) 00:14:17 newskald[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:background:crusader 00:14:17 <|amethyst> bh: more than 3 for a few spells 00:14:31 <|amethyst> bh: and fewer for a few 00:14:32 do skalds have an item that makes them sing? 00:14:36 bh: to underline how strong the nerf is, see this commit 00:14:37 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=4b63c23585b0c31f6cf0fbb910edbfd6914cdb7b 00:14:44 spammals only give you 1 animal per cast anyway 00:14:48 mumra: what happened to easing up on the limits for low-level summons 00:14:54 <|amethyst> bh: no, just a spellbook 00:15:03 SamB: well i just playtested and i discovered that low-level summons are fine 00:15:23 i think the limits are pretty ok, they could probably use a bit of tuning, but the early game was fine 00:15:40 i got to XL:8 before I died to oka wrath because i'm an idiot 00:16:04 I think it's going to be more problematic in lair 00:16:12 i think the fact that i could get to XL:8 first time, despite being an idiot player, proves that summons are still not underpowered 00:16:13 Spammals: not especially good against a frost giant 00:16:25 mumra: I actually tend not to think a datapoint of one proves a great deal 00:16:29 One way or the other 00:16:41 DracoOmega; Used to be back when you could get up to 4 at a time and it included green and orange rats 00:16:43 one data = anecdote 00:16:48 Lightli: I am aware 00:16:48 <|amethyst> Lightli: probably you will need to use more than just the 'best' summon at any point in time 00:16:49 With 29 strength, the EVP for FDA is 1.6 and the EVP for plate is 4.9 :P 00:16:58 well if you're going to be all "give me hard empirical data" about it ... :P 00:17:44 mumra: while you're at it, can you make summons less "Demonology"? 00:17:48 well, that was how we got heavy armour less nerfed :P 00:17:50 Su of TSO is awful to play 00:18:01 bh: need summon holy things 00:18:04 SamB: in the early game you can't really afford more than a couple of imps and a couple of spammals, so i don't know what the fuss is about there 00:18:12 it's actually the late game that was nerfed more 00:18:15 Zannick: How is it less nerfed? 00:18:23 Zannick: there's a *huge* gap between Summon Hydra and Summon Dragon 00:18:33 !lg bh combo=MfSu 00:18:33 kryft: compare 0.6 and 0.7, i think 00:18:34 Unknown field: combo 00:18:35 mumra: I am reasonably sure that 3 ice beasts at once is a nerf to summoning ice beasts, for example 00:18:37 ??lg 00:18:38 listgame[1/6]: !lg command displays info about past games. The manual is available here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell/raw/master/docs/listgame.txt 00:18:43 !lg bh mfsu 00:18:44 36. bh the Caller (L1 MfSu), slain by a hobgoblin on D:1 on 2013-05-17 03:15:00, with 55 points after 236 turns and 0:01:45. 00:18:47 mumra: Haunt still works like normal, so you can use that for a 3-runer 00:18:55 !lg bh mfsu max=xl 00:18:55 36. bh the Hellbinder (L27 MfSu), worshipper of The Shining One, escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2012-08-20 05:55:18, with 2050607 points after 152968 turns and 18:31:13. 00:19:06 !lg * won su 00:19:06 277. bmfx the Sorcerer (L27 HESu), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-06-22 22:22:41, with 1807687 points after 63798 turns and 8:20:00. 00:19:09 Hellbinder of the Shining One :) 00:19:19 that is hilarious 00:19:30 !lg * won su min=xl 00:19:30 277. Stabwound the Convoker (L17 DESu), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2008-08-30 06:45:15, with 1211732 points after 43068 turns and 6:25:29. 00:19:33 Zannick: I didn't start playing until 0.10, but in any case the new encumbrance system seems a bit too harsh towards plate 00:19:40 DracoOmega: sure, but by the time you've got ice beasts online you can also have scorpions 00:19:52 as well as imps and spammals to be a meat shield and distract things 00:20:01 Perhaps. But scorpions has always seemed pretty bad to me anyway, and at low power is definitely bad 00:20:21 mmm. canine spam was my go-to 00:20:30 a couple of castings generally means you have enough scorpions to kill the one or two bad eggs pretty easily 00:20:32 at least dogs won't poison you to death 00:20:41 it was imps for me, but I was a musu and had infinite mana so 00:20:51 <|amethyst> mumra: do the unfriendlies count towards the cap? 00:20:54 Does anyone have luck with summon elemental? I always avoid that 00:20:54 no 00:21:03 <|amethyst> mumra: likewise for demons I assume? 00:21:03 Summon elemental is great if you have 15 air 00:21:05 Hostile elementals are a major pain 00:21:12 unfriendlies are never counted 00:21:19 kryft: 0.6 had a big change in how damage reduction was applied based on AC 00:21:41 I always liked earth elementals 00:21:43 I'm trying to figure out how to modify my ice-beast reliant HEIE speed runs before I get shadow creatures 00:21:49 Zannick: Right, but is that somehow relevant to the new encumbrance system in 0.13?-) 00:21:51 I think it'll just be to use icicle more 00:21:53 Eart ones are okay too 00:22:00 great way to kill orbs of fire 00:22:01 Actually, fire and water are fine combat-wise now too, since I buffed them 00:22:04 someone ran stats on damage taken with various ac and ev and showed ev was much better 00:22:06 But fire and water are less readily available 00:22:08 kryft: you're the one who brought it up! 00:22:23 -!- ekix_ is now known as ekix 00:22:30 I remember havinf a weird idea about scaling elemwntal HD (and/or damage??) based on spell power. 00:22:38 *having 00:22:40 i was initially responding to <+mumra> well if you're going to be all "give me hard empirical data" about it ... :P 00:22:54 If I don't have abjure, the thought of hostile summons is scary for a low-level HE 00:22:54 Grunt: I would love this. 00:23:04 earth elemental (07E) | Spd: 6 | HD: 6 | HP: 33-57 | AC/EV: 14/4 | Dam: 40 | 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 84 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 00:23:04 %??earth elemental 00:23:07 earth elemental (07E) | Spd: 6 | HD: 30 | HP: 195-255 | AC/EV: 14/4 | Dam: 40 | 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 3693 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 00:23:07 %??earth elemental hd:30 00:23:11 Zannick: Oh, I thought you were talking to me, heh 00:23:15 Grunt: The evokers actually do this, a little 00:24:14 Do we have a table of what spell school combos are used? 00:24:18 One problem is that helps fire elementals a lot more than the others, probably, since their damage actually scales with hd 00:24:19 Oh? 00:24:23 fire elemental (05E) | Spd: 13 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 004(pure fire:9-14) | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 12cold | XP: 196 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 00:24:23 %??fire elemental 00:24:24 the evelopers 00:24:26 fire elemental (05E) | Spd: 13 | HD: 15 | HP: 60-104 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 004(pure fire:22-36) | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1598 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 00:24:26 %??fire elemental hd:15 00:24:38 fire elemental (05E) | Spd: 13 | HD: 30 | HP: 135-195 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 004(pure fire:45-74) | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 12cold | XP: 8483 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 00:24:38 %??fire elemental hd:30 00:24:38 <|amethyst> bh: badwiki does but doesn't handle trunk 00:24:41 water elemental (02E) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 15 | HP: 86-121 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 2212(drown) | 11non-living, amphibious | Res: 13magic(immune), 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 1741 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 00:24:41 %??water elemental hd:15 00:24:55 Zannick: (As I was basically saying that plate and heavier armors were nerfed by the new encumbrance system) 00:24:56 why does chei need to say "pure fire"? 00:25:00 Obviously scale the damage of the others somehow <_< 00:25:01 <|amethyst> bh: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/List_of_spells_by_school 00:25:04 Zannick, 00:25:12 ??badwiki 00:25:13 badwiki[1/27]: An old wiki (with lots of out of date and incorrect info; enter at your own risk): http://chaosforge.org/crawl/ There is an interesting essay about the relevance of the Chaosforge wiki located here: http://eronarn.info/misc/wiki.html 00:25:14 red ugly thing (05u) | Spd: 11 (act: 110%) | HD: 8 | HP: 30-59 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 1204(fire:8-15) | 10doors | Res: 06magic(32), 05fire, 04napalm | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 342 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 00:25:14 %??red ugly thing 00:25:29 Zannick: Well, because it is different than a normal fire brand in that it does no physical damage and doesn't need to pass AC to trigger 00:25:40 bh: for a few things, the wiki is actually nice compared to bots! 00:25:42 huh 00:25:45 gammafunk: I agree 00:25:56 too bad we can't make the bots dump a wiki 00:26:07 <|amethyst> bh: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/List_of_spells/parse-spl-data is the script that generated it (I wrote it a few years ago) and probably works with trunk 00:26:39 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:55 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: though I guess there's no reason to note it like that---isn't it always paired with 0 base damage? 00:27:23 <|amethyst> so monster could say 0(fire:45-74) and we'd know what it meant 00:27:24 It is, and probably always should be 00:27:36 Though doesn't TECHNICALLY have to be 00:27:41 (Not that it would make sense to do so) 00:27:41 |amethyst: there might be some fertile ground on mixed school spells. Like Hexes/Poison, say? 00:28:07 Why not translocations/conjurations? 00:28:34 Lightli: right. There are tons of unused combos 00:28:56 I was thinking some sort of dimensional vortex that dragged monsters into it 00:29:07 though conjurations has gotten a fair amount of love recently. 00:29:23 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:26 Portal Spell; guarantee a hit with your next conjuration. 00:29:42 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:43 Grunt: does that include evoking a rod of inaccuracy 00:29:55 Portal Spell - orb of destruction? 00:30:11 the wavering orb of destruction hits it. 00:30:26 Zannick, that would give a weak IOOD hit though... 00:30:31 maybe 00:30:35 Try LCS :b 00:30:55 fr: portal projectile an existing iood 00:31:02 L9 Earth / Fire / Conj -- Lava Storm ;) 00:31:20 Fire Storm deals lava d 00:31:21 level 8 translocations: Spacial Vortex: creates a vortex that pulls enemies toward it while casting translocation miscast effects on them(power depends on how close to the vortex) 00:31:26 amage alreqdy. 00:31:29 <_< 00:31:31 ... 00:31:41 <|amethyst> volcano 00:31:44 (typing on a phone is tricky) 00:31:49 Grunt: this would leave pools of lava on the ground 00:32:01 volcano storm 00:32:02 bh: Eruption 00:32:23 instead of creating fire clouds and vortices, it creates volcano clouds and vortices 00:32:46 The ground belches forth lava! 00:32:53 maybe it should just bring forth a volcano that bleches out death for several turns 00:32:57 It would probably weird crawl if we created a few sets of minor spell books and only had a subset appear in each game 00:33:30 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34:23 -!- qoala_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:44 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:46 With the summon nerf, could we finally get summon orb of fire? 00:34:58 summon lightli 00:35:22 Zannick: so summon a berserking orc warlord with a vampiric exec axe and pearl dragon armor 00:35:23 haha 00:35:27 how about a spell Summon Nerf 00:35:29 Lightli: you mean Shadow Creatures? 00:35:43 or that 00:36:27 -!- qoala has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:36:42 -!- qoala_ is now known as qoala 00:36:59 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 00:37:43 -!- Undo has quit [] 00:38:08 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:11 ok 4chan is complaining that summoning is ruined forever 00:38:19 -!- GRAVITATION has quit [Client Quit] 00:38:27 4chan is ruined forever 00:38:40 and I think at least one person said that summoning was already underpowered before the LOS nerf 00:40:01 4chan plays crawl? 00:41:00 look at least they're complaining about things that just happened 00:41:31 as opposed to, say, mountain dwarves 00:42:05 next april fools we should add mountain dwarves back in for a day and see if anyone notices 00:42:16 well everyone who care about the dwarves quit, remember? 00:42:19 cared 00:42:25 exactly 00:42:26 that's what they said, anyway 00:42:27 hahaha 00:42:28 ha 00:43:05 " This is even worse than the time mountain dwarves got removed." -4chan 00:43:10 Actually the weirdest is that yesterday I heard of some complaints that Draconians are underpowered because they don't get a body slot anymore. Which is a pretty strange complaint to make -now- 00:43:17 for several reasons 00:43:19 the best 4chan comment is: "What the fuck are you supposed to do, actually train a non-summoning school?" 00:43:31 some people complained about Jesters. I'm not sure if they were serious. 00:43:33 -!- Helmschank_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:43:45 I was completely 100% serious when I complained about the best class 00:43:45 you forgot the reply, which was basically "It could be worse. You could actually have to melee things" 00:43:50 I am pretty sure a lot of people who complain are serious, to be honest 00:44:07 Whether or not they have a good point is a seperate matter 00:44:25 So much negativity =/ 00:44:29 yes 00:45:10 at least they like the game 00:45:14 the thing is that summoning as it was was (still) horribly overpowered 00:45:22 According to minqmay, it still is even post nerf 00:45:31 yep. Any combo I've won is, by definition, op. 00:45:37 haha 00:45:46 you only win octopodes!? 00:45:48 What will happen when SamB wins? 00:45:56 damnit, I never played a summoner before and now it looks like I never will 00:46:08 buppy: you didn't miss much 00:46:11 outside of boredom 00:46:16 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:20 gammafunk: we make it so when you get the orb you wake up and it was a dream, so you have to do it again 00:46:22 maybe I should go play a summoner -right now- 00:46:37 they will have to revoke my ADD permit 00:46:38 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2071-gf7884f7 00:46:44 Do we have Orb of Zot mimics? 00:46:51 yes but no 00:47:05 effectively no 00:47:12 since there are no vaults to spawn them 00:47:19 bh: i implemented them and then zot orb vaults were removed 00:47:40 there's just the one orb placed, see, and so the builder can't make it a mimic 00:47:52 -!- snwl has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:47:55 it would be kind of silly to put one on Zot:4 00:48:07 we'd have to put a orb vault mimic somewhere 00:48:08 yes, the vaults that did that were also removed 00:48:26 -!- snwl has quit [Client Quit] 00:48:37 maybe it's such a good mimic that it makes Zot appear to be 3 levels in the dungeon overview 00:49:07 you mean there's like a mimic of Zot:$ 00:49:14 heehee, yeah 00:49:14 it could be worse; that guy with the learndb saying "every time you die, I'll take a step" could win 00:49:15 and the real one is lower down? 00:49:20 fake orb vault with an orb mimic 00:49:29 No 00:49:41 oh, i know 00:49:41 so you think you're done but then the orb mimic dies to reveal a stairway down to the real Zot:$ 00:49:42 Have an orb mimic on top of the real orb 00:49:49 ow 00:49:59 i should make an abyss vault with the orb 00:50:09 Lightli: that'll show as two orbs initially 00:50:13 oh 00:50:18 might as well make the orb mimic *be* the orb 00:50:37 but then we can't make orb mimics anywhere else 00:50:44 but yeah 00:50:48 but that would be the one time an orb mimic might trick someone 00:50:53 abyss vault with part of z:$ 00:50:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:51:00 as if some other adventurer corrupted it 00:51:44 maybe abyss:$ has the orb 00:52:23 the orb vault (sans orb) with an orb guardian or two in Abyss might be neat 00:52:36 -!- Nicksvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:55:05 This is probably on the no-no list, but are people against the idea of any kind of unique boss(es) in sot:$? 00:55:15 I realize we have pan lords on the orb run 00:55:23 s/sot/zot/ 00:55:51 I always like the flavor of the netback bosss in the astral plane 00:57:15 the closest we have is that Tiamat is the only unique to spawn in Zot 00:57:49 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:58:34 I'm thinking of something that'd probably be in the hall of zot 00:59:11 there's enough crap in the hall of zot as-is 00:59:23 orb guardians, orbs, liches, player ghosts 00:59:41 yeah, you'd have to thin out some enemies 01:00:32 Zannick: don't forget the Lich of Fire 01:00:50 you forgot the draconian packs and the elec golems and the killer clowns and the monstrosities and and and 01:01:02 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:01:12 !lg * ckiller=klown 01:01:12 No games for * (ckiller=klown). 01:01:17 !lg * ckiller=killer_klown 01:01:17 61. Ziltmar the Slayer (L27 MiDK), worshipper of Yredelemnul, slain by a Killer Klown on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2013-06-08 17:20:14, with 632773 points after 124099 turns and 1d+8:25:04. 01:01:31 -!- Nicksvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:31 !lg * ckiller=electric_golem 01:01:31 214. stonewall the Acrobat (L27 VpAr), worshipper of Ashenzari, blasted by an electric golem (bolt of lightning) on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2013-06-23 17:51:50, with 743763 points after 162575 turns and 7:53:14. 01:01:42 yes, and golems and clowns 01:01:49 some kind of set of uniques that could appear and with interesting attacks could be nice for flavour 01:01:49 and dragons 01:01:53 and food 01:02:08 mmmmm.... maize.... 01:02:27 in after corny jokes 01:02:35 -!- platinum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:02:59 I'd be pretty happy if some kind of avatar of sot could appear in the game somehow 01:03:05 avatar of sot 01:03:09 god damn that autocorrect 01:03:11 avatar of sod 01:03:22 !lg * ckiller=death_cob map=hall_of_zot 01:03:23 4. ashizen the Skullcrusher (L27 OgAM), worshipper of Yredelemnul, mangled by a death cob on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2012-10-05 19:46:41, with 578832 points after 77547 turns and 15:29:54. 01:03:30 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 01:03:44 !lg * ckiller=death_cob map=hall_of_zot s=dam 01:03:44 4 games for * (ckiller=death_cob map=hall_of_zot): 5, 11, 9, 16 01:03:51 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:57 !lg * ckiller=death_cob map=hall_of_zot max=dam x=mhp 01:03:58 4. [mhp=124] puddinbane the Cryomancer (L27 MuIE), worshipper of Vehumet, mangled by a death cob on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2011-03-20 02:21:34, with 584159 points after 184270 turns and 13:19:04. 01:04:06 !lg * ckiller=death_cob map=hall_of_zot min=dam x=mhp 01:04:10 4. [mhp=153] Partisan the Warrior (L25 KoBe), worshipper of Trog, slain by a death cob on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2011-07-06 23:51:28, with 365920 points after 71150 turns and 6:29:49. 01:05:16 -!- Hosg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:06:03 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 01:06:31 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:41 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:53 why aren't moths batty? 01:08:11 better control over their flight? 01:08:50 bh: zanex? 01:08:59 ontoclasm: xanax? 01:09:19 zanex looks cooler 01:09:28 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:10:10 03bh 07[madness] * 0.13-a0-1714-g2325c62: Moth of Madness -> Polymoth 10(40 seconds ago, 3 files, 6+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2325c62cd8c8 01:10:18 haha 01:10:57 Dare I ask what the moth does? 01:11:09 no, you don't dare 01:11:15 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:11:20 It turns everythint into bats. 01:11:41 I check out bh's branch with great trepidation….. 01:11:45 polymorphs monsters in LoS to stronger versions of the same genus. 01:11:50 -!- st_ has quit [] 01:11:56 polly moth 01:12:30 gammafunk: if you tell me why it's generating uniques, I'll mail you a dollar bill (or 4 quarters at your option) 01:12:31 "polly wants a cracker" <-- best possible speech line 01:12:40 A polymoth enters view. The polymoth glares at you. Welcome to level 27! 01:13:01 bh: because you haven't prevented it from generating uniques 01:13:05 You feel like a new woman! 01:13:18 Zannick: I've certainly tried. 01:13:47 -!- Nicksvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:15:03 Well, it's sort of odd given that normal polymorph can't create uniques, so why should restricting it within genus expand the options to things not normally viable? 01:15:07 (I haven't looked at the code though) 01:15:47 I specifically use _is_valid_poly (or some similarly named function) which checks the unique flag 01:16:55 <|amethyst> bh: they should be, but have you verified that mc and me->mc are the same thing? 01:17:14 no. That would be a sensible course of action. 01:19:56 that was partially brought forth by me asking about new moths 01:19:59 yay 01:20:08 ontoclasm: I'm pretty sure the shuffle card already does that. 01:21:41 but not with that message, sadly 01:22:02 who knows what else it may shuffle 01:22:16 Bloax: but it doesn't actually know your gender to start with 01:22:47 samb: exactly why you feel all new and fresh 01:23:00 Shuffle was always one of those funny exceptions to crawl's don't ruin your game with one bad move rule 01:23:04 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:12 But decks are almost a forgotten corner of the game for most players, I guess 01:23:36 I don't think I've seen many use any. 01:23:38 Shuffle really sucks. But if you're blind drawing the Deck of Wonders, you have it coming 01:24:09 I watched someone accidentally shuffle their troll. Then they tried to shuffle it again to fix it, but it made it worse 01:24:13 He still won, though 01:24:28 What did the stats get shuffled to? 01:24:37 shuffling troll str with int is a cool strategy though 01:24:54 Not if you have 4 str though. :p 01:25:57 It was BountyHunterSax, but I can't quite remember how the shuffle went 01:26:19 I do recall "I HATE DECKS. THEY ARE STUPID" after the first shuffle 01:26:27 And we're like, you know you can id scroll decks? 01:26:58 Which he did iirc, but I don't think he knew about shuffle 01:26:59 Haha 01:27:07 BountyHunterSax ♥ 01:27:34 * SamB tries to imagine boba fet playing a saxaphone 01:28:08 -!- Sabaki has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:28:42 He has a metric ton of crawl videos on youtube 01:28:44 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:29:12 The problem about blowing ID scrolls on decks is that a lack of them seems more common than an overpopulace of them. 01:29:47 They can be a serious waste of id scrolls, yeah. Generally I only bother as a non-nem worshiper if the deck is legendary and I have at least 10 evoc 01:29:56 And I only say this because the only game I've ever played where I had over 8 ID scrolls without anything to use them on was one I splatted yesterday. 01:30:24 Lua package not detected on such platforms as FreeBSD/OpenBSD by knu 01:30:24 Add support for various package names of Lua 5.1 by knu 01:30:26 And almost never before have I found that happening. 01:31:25 -!- aves has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:31:55 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:59 I usually don't have a shortage of id scrolls 01:32:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:32:11 03bh 07[madness] * 0.13-a0-1715-g56ebb6f: Add a polymoth quote. 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=56ebb6fef7b9 01:32:15 At least not a severe one 01:32:59 Well it's not unusual to have 1-3 available. 01:33:21 But those would only serve you 1-3 safe cards. 01:33:41 Sure, I wouldn't spend them on decks. 01:37:35 spectral weapon (05() | Spd: 30 | HD: 27 | HP: 43-44 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 18 | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 5861 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 01:37:35 %?? spectral weapon ; bardiche 01:37:56 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 01:38:44 yay! Though I'm uncertain whether or not I should have used max-power/skill for placement. HD:27 takes quite a bit of investment. 01:40:05 dancing weapon (05() | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 40 | AC/EV: 20/15 | Dam: 36 | 11non-living, fighter, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 970 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 01:40:05 %??dancing weapon ; bardiche 01:41:46 spectral weapon damage doesn't currently scale up with skill. It probably should, but we're evaluating if it needs to. Probably more important once higher AC opponents are reached. 01:42:10 bh: i think i might have it 01:42:10 Only the HD (affecting only to-hit) scales with owner's skill. 01:42:20 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 01:42:52 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2072-gcae46e3: Fix compilation with old (4.1) GCC and libstdc++ 10(34 minutes ago, 2 files, 11+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cae46e358690 01:42:52 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2073-gbfd7fd8: Fix overflow in curse skull monster energy pickup_percent. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bfd7fd8dd3d8 01:44:14 spectral weapon (11() | Spd: 30 | HD: 27 | HP: 43-44 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 19 | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 5864 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 01:44:14 %?? spectral weapon ; triple sword 01:44:42 curse skull (11z) | Spd: 15 (act: 150%) | HD: 13 | HP: 55 | AC/EV: 25/3 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold++, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2197 | Sp: summon undead, torment symbol | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 01:44:42 <|amethyst> %??curse skull 01:46:03 mumra: did I botch some monster number conversion? 01:46:23 oh 01:46:24 I see it 01:46:54 bh: i'm not sure if the one i just pushed is the same one you're looking at 01:46:56 -!- Melum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:04 and i'm not sure exactly how this could have resulted in a unique 01:47:10 but it didn't look right anyway :P 01:47:45 also, install the pre-commit hook! ;) 01:47:57 03mumra 07[madness] * 0.13-a0-1716-gfac9540: Formatting fixes 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 11+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fac9540dfc05 01:47:57 03mumra 07[madness] * 0.13-a0-1717-gf1b15bb: Reference the same mc variable for the valid check and the actual poly 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f1b15bb12c07 01:47:59 mon-stuff:3105 uses the wrong monster type. It uses the outbound type instead of the inbound type. I think that's what |amethyst was talking about earlier. 01:48:13 yep, that's it. My commit message was better. "Idiot savant bugfix" 01:48:18 haha 01:49:03 -!- pantaril has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:49:05 so... we could merge this and unleash it on... the Abyss? 01:49:20 It'll be more 'popular' than the Chaos Butterfly 01:49:41 bh: i can't exactly see why me->mc would be different to mc, since me is the monster data for mc 01:49:52 <|amethyst> bh: would it do much in the abyss? 01:50:11 |amethyst: small abominations would become large abominations. Dogs would lie down with cats. 01:50:34 hmm, now I'm thinking we should have a unique chaos butterfly named Tiffany ... 01:50:36 -!- Tollymain has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:50:43 * SamB wonders if he's got his characters straight 01:51:24 -!- ELRanger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:51:46 It's supposed to be a Precocious reference 01:52:49 we could probably make a cool unique based on Patroclus 01:53:28 I wonder how Muffins of Doom actually work 01:53:37 I mean, what's so Doomy about them? 01:54:44 -!- eb has quit [] 01:55:51 not doom enough 01:55:58 is qoala around? 01:56:03 ??chaos butterfly 01:56:03 chaos butterfly[1/2]: An abyssal monster surrounded by rain clouds at all times; occasionally summons a twister. Deals chaos damage in melee. Otherwise about as squishy as a moth of wrath. 01:56:04 <|amethyst> bh: is it intentional that there's no penalty for going one HD lower? 01:56:05 [2] 01:56:08 ??chaos butterfly [2] 01:56:08 chaos butterfly[2/2]: chaos butterflies are quite something 01:56:10 qoala: spectral weapon seems to be doing nothing in trunk 01:56:24 <|amethyst> int chance = mons->hit_dice - (int) me->hpdice[0]; 01:56:24 <|amethyst> if (!one_chance_in(chance * chance)) 01:56:41 fr: cyberdemon as an incredibly rare abyss:5 spawn 01:56:46 (joking) 01:56:58 what was our cyberdemon again? 01:57:05 <|amethyst> how many roguelikes have cyberdemons I wonder 01:57:06 |amethyst: intentional, but I don't know if my intentions are good 01:57:22 orc (04o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:57:22 %??orc 01:57:25 orc warrior (08o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 17-39 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(16) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 133 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:57:25 %??orc warrior 01:57:30 orc wizard (06o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-21 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 35 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, haste, blink / throw flame (3d5), confuse, invisibility, magic dart (3d4) / throw frost (3d5), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d5), magic dart (3d4), invisibility | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:57:30 %??orc wizard 01:57:33 orc priest (03o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-21 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 42 | Sp: pain (d8), cantrip, smiting (7-17), heal other (2d1) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:57:33 %??orc priest 01:57:39 shoot 01:57:45 orc warlord (11o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 86-138 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 32 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(60) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 2258 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:57:45 %??orc warlord 01:57:56 orc knight (10o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 47-88 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Dam: 25 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 683 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:57:56 %??orc knight 01:57:59 Was I asleep enough that I tested monster and broke actual gameplay? 01:58:00 SamB: I think hell sentinels are the closest 01:58:01 probably 01:58:10 |amethyst: I don't think it's going to make much of a difference 01:58:32 I have a joke tower of babel vault sitting around on my pastebin account somewhere 01:58:33 I tested the stats of a cast spectral weapon, I think. 01:58:42 ??elemental wellspring 01:58:42 I don't have a page labeled elemental_wellspring in my learndb. 01:59:18 bh: They are pure pain 02:00:04 I don't actually think they're especially scary, but they're certainly a more relevant monster for D:25 than an electric eel 02:00:44 qoala: second-to-last post on https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7611&p=114624#p114624 02:01:03 qoala: i'm testing on s-z and can confirm this 02:01:08 the spectral weapon isn't attacking anything 02:01:19 for placement, how about we try making polymoth's rare and on D:24-27? 02:02:02 What's a polymoth? A moth that polymorphs? 02:02:17 I think I found the problem 02:02:39 kryft: basically yes 02:02:52 It wasn't the placement change, but the update to make the AI reset if it wasn't able to attack 02:02:58 How about a polymath? It's a moth that knows fire storm, ice storm, tornado and shatter 02:03:04 oh, yeah 02:03:16 qoala: i have to restart my computer quickly but if you post a fix i'll push it when i'm back 02:03:26 <|amethyst> I can push it 02:03:28 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:28 Apparently I tested that it could no longer attack after a long wait, but didn't test that I precluded it attacking at all 02:03:40 Heh 02:04:41 <|amethyst> qoala: is moving it to _post_monster_move sufficient? 02:05:09 o_0 02:05:17 Is that called after the monster has expended all its energy for the round? 02:05:25 if so, that sounds about right. 02:05:27 The polymoth irradiates the plant! Thorny briars emerge from the ground! 02:05:29 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:37 <|amethyst> qoala: oh, no 02:05:38 there's another thing to change 02:05:38 The polymoth irradiates the plant! The plant evaporates and reforms as an oklob plant! 02:05:45 <|amethyst> qoala: it's after every move 02:06:05 oh 02:06:36 It needs to be reset after it's expended its energy without being able to attack. 02:06:41 -!- Ahrin has quit [] 02:06:53 drat. It's still generating uniques. ack. I think I forgot to take your patches, mumra 02:07:10 -!- lainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:07:11 Alternatively, could be setup that a SW owner resets its SW on its own turn beginning. 02:07:28 -!- Aponym has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:07:44 bh: oh dear, my formatting commit will cause a nightmare of conflicts no doubt ;) 02:07:52 fr moth of conflict 02:07:58 (is grunt already working on that?) 02:07:58 Well, battlesphere uses a pair of props to handle resetting. One set at the start of a full round, and then if that prop has not been removed by the start of the NEXT round, it cancels firing orders 02:07:58 mumra: it merged cleanly 02:08:17 ah, was wondering why there were so many states. 02:09:00 Also, I botched how to reset the AI. I need to just remove it's target_mid property, not manually change its state. handle_behaviour will replace any such changes. 02:09:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-1712-gdebd2d6: Moth of Madness 10(5 days ago, 5 files, 71+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=debd2d6947f6 02:09:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-1713-g44e527a: Moth of Madness Fixes 10(2 days ago, 4 files, 44+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=44e527ac202d 02:09:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-1714-g2325c62: Moth of Madness -> Polymoth 10(60 minutes ago, 3 files, 6+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2325c62cd8c8 02:09:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-1715-g56ebb6f: Add a polymoth quote. 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=56ebb6fef7b9 02:09:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2078-gb1b9bc4: Merge branch 'madness' 10(9 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b1b9bc4e78d6 02:09:33 oh no 02:10:20 DracoOmega: what's the lifecycle of a battlesphere's props, then? 02:10:41 Heh, let's see if I can specifically remember now 02:10:46 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1716-gfac9540: Formatting fixes 10(28 minutes ago, 2 files, 11+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fac9540dfc05 02:10:46 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1717-gf1b15bb: Reference the same mc variable for the valid check and the actual poly 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f1b15bb12c07 02:10:46 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2081-g6496115: Merge branch 'madness' 10(4 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6496115bf40d 02:10:48 Since it's changed a few times now 02:11:37 I thought that I didn't need a separate aim & trigger, thus could simplify the states. But I apparently simplified too far. 02:11:55 Well, aim and trigger for battlesphere is needed for something seperate 02:11:59 That probably does not apply to SW 02:12:22 yeah, that's what I thought 02:12:43 That's because the properties of the triggering beam are not filled in at the point it is first aimed 02:12:49 And the code that fills them in also fires the spell 02:12:53 The SW just targets the creature directly attacked by its owner. No beam fiddliness 02:13:05 So it has to do some of the aiming BEFORE, and then some after (to adjust for knocked-back monsters, AoE and such) 02:13:49 But some of the aiming has to be done first so that if you kill the creature you aim at with your main shot, it can actually still aim at the (now-dead) creature 02:13:54 Which it wouldn't even see later on 02:14:09 how did tavern take the summon nerf 02:14:12 did it even notice it? 02:14:21 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2082-ge7efbb0: Nerf Polymoth 10(88 seconds ago, 2 files, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e7efbb0ace12 02:14:33 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:14:36 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: why would it need to aim at a now-dead monster? 02:14:47 |amethyst: I was wondering the same 02:15:13 the only thing I could think of was "to avoid dereferencing a dangling pointer?" 02:15:13 |amethyst: Well, the point is that it's supposed to be firing at the same time, so it should aim at where the monster WAS, and not at something else 02:15:30 <|amethyst> bh: I'm confused, what does that have to do with plants? 02:15:53 Actually, it polymorphing plants sounds hilarious 02:16:05 |amethyst: it was turning neutrals into oklob plants. 02:16:09 Now that they can turn into more things than just oklobs 02:16:19 Plants aren't actually neutral, you know 02:16:24 They are hostile (but just can't do anything) 02:16:30 So I suspect the relevant properties from battlesphere are tracking and firing. (ready, seems to be for the aim-->trigger process) 02:16:31 argh. They're firewood, huh? 02:16:32 Unless you're with Fedhas or something 02:16:50 <|amethyst> firewood and attitude are orthogonal 02:17:03 right. I assumed the attitude axis caught them 02:17:03 not polying neutral sounds good, but i would leave the plant conversion in yes 02:17:08 and spawn polymoth in forest 02:17:08 qoala: Yes, 'tracking' is used if it cannot fire from its position when you fire, and needs to spend a couple turns moving 02:17:13 and probably lair 02:17:16 I believe I've seen crashes because of plants being unable to find a way to kill you 02:17:17 mumra: :'( 02:17:18 plant (03P) | Spd: 0 | HD: 10 | HP: 37-73 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sp: fire storm (8d8) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 02:17:18 %??plant spells:fire_storm 02:17:31 mumra: That thing in Lair sounds a bit horrifying 02:17:32 that is terrifyi-oh wait 0 speed 02:17:32 that would be the worst thing ever. 02:17:40 <|amethyst> mumra: I don't know, polymorphing no-XP things into XP things on a large scale like that seems problematic 02:17:45 mumra: Given that it can produce not only oklobs but thorn hunters 02:17:47 DracoOmega: V:$ might be a good place 02:18:00 ??thorn hunter 02:18:01 I don't have a page labeled thorn_hunter in my learndb. 02:18:08 thorn hunter (16P) | Spd: 12 | HD: 14 | HP: 68-111 | AC/EV: 8/8 | Dam: 22, 16 | 03plant, sense invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 2339 | Sp: thorns volley (3d20), brambles wall | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 02:18:08 <|amethyst> %??thorn hunter 02:18:20 mumra: but I don't think we want %??plant to turn into %??oklob_sapling 02:18:20 Except that the current SW AI doesn't actually check the SW code to track its target... 02:18:43 The special case in handle_behaviour points it at the desired target 02:18:45 <|amethyst> bh: wasn't it supposed to weight by the difference in HD in both directions? 02:18:59 but lets the AI figure out if it has to move or if it can just attack. 02:19:03 SamB: I am pretty sure nothing can poly into oklob saplings 02:19:11 oh really 02:19:13 people can't tell when i'm joking ... 02:19:31 |amethyst: I didn't want to do a weighted draw on the upper end, (since that would involve writing a new sampling function) 02:19:31 yeah 02:19:33 sometimes! 02:19:34 so they're oklob plants minus the acid, but with the ability to stop you from escaping? 02:19:40 Lightli: They move 02:20:01 DracoOmega: that would explain the "hunter" 02:20:02 Lightli: And will raise brambles both to block off escape, and to cover themselves if you move towards them, then fire through them 02:20:02 ok now I have no idea how I killed the one I saw in forest before it did anything 02:20:22 wait no that was because demon blades of elec are dumb 02:20:25 Lightli: it had to take a dump 02:20:28 Perhaps for SW, we should just revert 04540f5 right now. And I'll make another attempt once I sort this out. 02:20:45 That'll at least let people play it. 02:20:59 qoala: Trying to co-opt monster behavior code to your own nefarious and unusual purposes is a bit tricky :P 02:21:03 sounds good 02:21:24 qoala: (Battlesphere took forever to get it to come out right T.T) 02:21:31 Sooooo many magic darts fired at HD:100 plants 02:21:35 Thousands, maybe 02:21:52 Yeah, I determined that figuring out if a reaching weapon could attack was code that *shouldn't* be duplicated. So when I reworked the AI, I let the existing AI code do as much as I could. 02:22:08 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2083-gefe6ee7: Revert "Make Spectral Weapon reset on player's next turn if it hasn't attacked." 10(72 seconds ago, 3 files, 0+ 22-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=efe6ee7f082b 02:23:48 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-2084-g446ab85: Prohibit polymothing firewood. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=446ab8583d36 02:24:00 I'm ambivalent about spawning this outside of: Abyss:3+, Vaults:$, D:BigNum 02:24:40 bh: exclusive to hall of Blades 02:24:46 i'm not sure about V:$ 02:24:51 ontoclasm: I haven't even tested that 02:24:53 the rest of V seems more interesting 02:24:58 mumra: everything in there is already murderlicious 02:25:08 <|amethyst> are there any abyss natives it works on other than aboms? 02:25:14 v:$ won't work because most stuff there is already at max hd, as it were 02:25:27 yes, that's what i mean, it seems kind of redundant 02:25:49 and we don't want to make v:$ significantly harder by upgrading anything than _can_ be upgraded 02:25:50 once you hit stone giant there is nowhere to go and v:4 is basically 5,000,000 stone giants having a rave 02:26:14 are they all stoned 02:26:17 <|amethyst> fr: more disco balls 02:26:31 heh 02:26:32 <|amethyst> mumra: no, they're rolling. Get your drug slang right! 02:26:40 `The orc warlord evaporates and reforms as Saint Roka!` grr. 02:26:48 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:50 but does stone giant drug slang work the same? 02:26:53 i hear the tengus are quite high 02:26:54 <|amethyst> _The stone giant just wants to hug you, man! 02:27:03 i figure it'd probably be more like troll drug slang from discworld 02:27:13 <|amethyst> s/stone giant/tentacled monstrosity/ 02:27:24 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:24 mara is the pusher 02:27:33 -!- Nomi has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:27:41 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2083-gefe6ee7 (34) 02:27:49 <|amethyst> mumra: or Alistair 02:28:00 alistair is the chemist 02:28:07 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:29:23 the first time i cleared v:$ was with intox so that's appropriate 02:29:26 <|amethyst> removing evap was actually a stealthy way to encourage people to drink more of the bad potions 02:29:29 ontoclasm: spectate me on cszo if you want to see some hilarity 02:29:36 i spiked the punch and beat everyone up 02:30:02 heh 02:30:49 |amethyst: lol 02:30:55 bh: awesome 02:31:03 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:10 <|amethyst> hmm 02:31:27 ??cloud mage 02:31:28 cloud mage[1/1]: A randomly named unique mage residing in the Cloud Mage wizlab. Wears the Robe of Clouds, has an ego dagger/quickblade, blinks, airstrikes, and clouds. No flame clouds though! 02:31:37 Cloud Mage (15@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(106) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3749 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 02:31:37 <|amethyst> %??cloud mage 02:31:40 <|amethyst> isn't really unique 02:31:54 <|amethyst> same with hellbinder 02:32:01 however, Louise _does_ appear to be a unique 02:32:21 <|amethyst> should be M_NO_POLY_TO if we're going to allow polymorphing to monsters with jobs 02:32:25 <|amethyst> hm 02:32:31 unknown monster: "tiffany" 02:32:31 %??tiffany 02:32:39 unknown monster: "Tiffany" 02:32:39 %??Tiffany 02:33:09 -!- Nomi has quit [Client Quit] 02:33:20 -!- dupo has quit [] 02:34:20 <|amethyst> definitely still a unique problem 02:34:59 so the player could end up killing the same unique multiple times? 02:35:08 While I'm elbows-deep in the SW AI, does anyone happen to know what setting a monster's foe to MHITNOT is supposed to be for? It's currently being coopted (possibly poorly) for the SW's non-tracking state. 02:36:07 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2083-gefe6ee7 (34) 02:36:08 qoala: Well, that's when it doesn't HAVE a foe (it may be wandering around looking for one) 02:37:07 qoala: For battlesphere, if I recall correctly, it is so it will actually move towards the target I set for it to go to 02:37:10 I'll bang on it some more this week. I'm glad it doesn't spawn anywhere and has NO_POLY_TO set 02:37:12 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:37:23 qoala: For SW, it's probably unnecessary, since you just want it to close into melee with the target, which the normal AI is already fine at doing 02:37:52 Battlesphere was more complicated since it needs to get to a viable line of fire to a specific target 02:38:53 So probably all you need to do is give it its foe, and it will do the rest (assuming a path exists) 02:39:17 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:41:14 ahahaha 02:41:25 !tell bh new_mclass = mons_species(new_mclass); 02:41:26 mumra: OK, I'll let bh know. 02:41:46 Well, it's used specifically when it doesn't have a target (or its owner is no longer in melee range with the target). It should then go follow its owner. I wasn't sure if this was causing hostile SW targetted at a player's ally to wander towards the player. 02:42:16 btw, the battlesphere ai is a fucking triumph i have to say 02:42:23 At least for player SW, it's probably the right thing to be using for "no target". 02:43:10 ontoclasm: In terms of generally doing exactly what you want it to do? 02:43:10 Unclear what the SW should do if the target has moved out of range of the player (keep-away monster or red devil). Currently, the weapon gives up and returns to the player. 02:43:16 yes 02:43:30 ontoclasm: Yes, it did take a lot of time, but I'm pleased with how it worked out 02:44:02 Unable to locate font files on FreeBSD by knu 02:44:05 i love when it's behind me but finds a way to dodge round a rock and take potshots 02:44:06 qoala: Staying near the player seems sensible to me 02:44:20 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:45:19 It might be a little awkward depending on if a keep-away opponent acts before or after the SW, but chasing after an opponent (with damage sharing) is probably bad too. 02:45:38 Yes 02:45:54 Why would it be akward for it to back towards you if you're out of range, too? 02:46:02 Since logically you'd need to move forward yourself, and it could follow 02:46:34 Or do you mean if you hit the red devil, then the red devil hops backward, and now the weapon can't reach (even though it could when you swung?) 02:46:59 Yeah, I meant the latter. 02:47:17 Well, in that case chasing seems fine, I think 02:47:26 So long as it doesn't get too far from you 02:47:55 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:48:29 Except that with a spriggan assassin, it may end up chasing fairly far from you. Then getting pincushioned by the satyr pack just out of view. 02:49:08 So do monsters take turns acting as they have energy? Or do they use all their energy at once before the next gets to go? 02:49:09 -!- klz has quit [Changing host] 02:49:29 Well, for the assassin to back away, you'd need to be attacking it with a reaching weapon anyway 02:49:40 Meaning the SW also reaches. And it probably couldn't get very far. 02:49:49 In one turn 02:49:49 <|amethyst> qoala: they take turns, but that's a fairly recent change 02:50:03 qoala: Yeah, a fair recent change that actually broke battlesphere in two different ways :P 02:50:10 Though that is hopefully fixed now 02:52:51 -!- qoala has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:22 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:31 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2085-gdfd7434: Don't let random polymorph rarely produce unvalidated monster types 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dfd74346f120 02:54:47 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:55 Well, after I get SW resetting properly, I'll remove the hackish 'can owner still attack target' check in a separate commit. So it can be reverted/reworked separately in case the SW starts doing silly things. 02:55:15 Because I think that check is the only thing keeping the SW near the player when it has a target. 02:56:18 batty or fleeing monsters might be a better example of things that the weapon could chase in a silly fashion. 02:56:38 !tell bh random_monster_at_grid(mons->pos(), true) only ever returned a species ... so the broken check for M_UNIQUE was completely moot anyway 02:56:39 mumra: OK, I'll let bh know. 02:57:13 qoala: Well, I reset the battlesphere's foe to MHITYOU and such if it gets out of LoS. Possibly you could do something similar for SW at a closer range 02:59:42 Yeah, replacing the check with 'within 2-3 squares of owner' before moving towards a target could work. If that check fails, should probably reset_spectral_weapon, so it doesn't oscillate at the range limit. 03:02:01 has anyone else mentioned cszo freezing on the high scores screen of you die? 03:04:13 !tell bh i assume the dollar is in the mail 03:04:14 mumra: OK, I'll let bh know. 03:04:23 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2086-g6e1df92: Fix previously broken but moot polymorph validity check for M_UNIQUE 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6e1df92eca07 03:06:18 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:23 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:22 !tell bh dfd7434 and 6e1df92 btw 03:08:23 mumra: OK, I'll let bh know. 03:11:11 Okay that's weird. I've now made the SW attack, but *only* if it had to move to make the attack. 03:11:38 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:12:13 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:14:45 !tell bh polymoth seems to do precisely nothing in V 03:14:46 mumra: OK, I'll let bh know. 03:15:20 :!tell bh ... in V:5 now i meant to say, but it's pretty good / terrifying in Lair. it maybe doesn't use the ability often enough though. 03:15:24 !tell bh ... in V:5 now i meant to say, but it's pretty good / terrifying in Lair. it maybe doesn't use the ability often enough though. 03:15:25 mumra: OK, I'll let bh know. 03:17:36 Does it make hellephants in Lair? 03:18:55 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2086-g6e1df92 (34) 03:19:56 qoala: most likely, it might upgrade via dire elephants 03:20:09 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2086-g6e1df92 (34) 03:21:23 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:21:36 !tell bh also maybe each monster should only be upgradeable once ... and probably it shouldn't upgrade monsters you can't actually see 03:21:37 mumra: OK, I'll let bh know. 03:22:26 awww... but then my hypothetical cloud of moths won't slowly converge on all being polymoths. 03:23:32 haha 03:23:39 it already can't upgrade anything into a polymoth 03:26:41 oh really, I hadn't actually tested, but hoped that since they were still moths they'd be valid results. 03:26:55 no they're specifically cased to be invalid 03:27:03 ah, disappointing. 03:28:32 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:29:28 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:59 perhaps setting 'tracking' during handle_behaviour is incorrect. I'm not entirely sure how often that is called, and seem to be randomly getting 'tracking' when I shouldn't. 03:31:43 Handle_behavior is called at least twice in one normal monster turn, generally 03:31:46 Before and after it acts 03:33:37 even when I made it only set 'tracking' if 'readied' was present, it still seemed to set on rare turns. 03:34:17 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:53 Currently trying a scheme in which reset_ sets 'tracking' if it wasn't already tracking and had a readied attack. 03:35:49 So the lifetime will be: owner attacks ==> 'readied'. first reset sets 'tracking'. If it attacks, it loses both, otherwise next reset clears both. 03:35:56 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:13 -!- Tollymain has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:36:22 Oh yeah, trigger_ needs to reset the flags. 03:36:23 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:53 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:23 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:53 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:14 also, I'm now reminded that withdrawn monsters can currently attack anything that isn't the player freely. 03:42:19 hehe 03:42:27 that's not quite epic_bugs status but it's good ;) 03:43:40 In fight.cc:fight_melee, some of the checks in defender->is_player() really ought to be after that first if/elseif block, since they're more contingent on attacker->is_monster() 03:44:33 basically snails (and probably boulder beetles) can attack other monsters freely in their special states. 03:44:53 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:45:16 at one point there was a problem where players were completely prevented from attempting to melee boulder beetles while they were rolling ;) 03:45:55 I know I'd be hard-pressed to actually damage a boulder in motion. 03:53:01 you'd more likely end up flat-pressed 03:54:12 :D 03:54:50 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:59:40 okay, setting tracking from within reset itself seems to work as desired for the reset mechanism as a whole. 04:01:23 -!- Sonderblade has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:47 I've renamed the 'ready' property flag to 'readied' to hopefully avoid confusion with the very different 'ready' property on battlesphere. ('attacking' is the closest analogue to 'firing' grammatically, but sounded weird for what it actually means) 04:04:58 Should I be concerned about migrating properties? 04:05:27 i'd call it sw_ready or something rather than creating confusion between ready vs. readied 04:05:38 Will the worst that can happen being a confused SW for a turn or two? 04:05:43 If a character save actually has a SW with 'ready', then the SW was storing the property (which I'm trying to prevent) anyways. 04:05:44 In which case I wouldn't bother migrating 04:05:47 So it just won't attack. 04:06:04 It'll just have an extra property until it times out. 04:06:24 Yeah, that's not really an important concern 04:06:28 Perhaps I should rename all of the sw-specific properties to sw_foo? 04:07:07 prop keys tend to use a prefix most of the time 04:07:16 it was mainly in comparing the AI for bs and sw, that the 'ready' property meant two different things. 04:07:17 will help avoid any possible conflicts, and also easier to find all references 04:07:38 (could #define the prop key as well to be uber safe, but I keep not getting around to this) 04:13:02 it would probably be desirable then to rename 'sw_mid' to 'sw_owner_mid'. This one actually would need to be migrated. How would I go about doing that? 04:15:09 sw_mid seems ok if it's already like that 04:15:19 if you want to migrate it you have to add code in tags.cc 04:15:59 look for unmarshall_monster (i think) 04:16:42 *or* you could implement a "summoner" field on monster, which me and dracoomega were talking about anyway 04:17:05 this would be helpful for battlesphere, iood, summons caps, and probably several other things 04:17:15 Yes, there's like at least 5 things I can think of off the top of my head that use props for that specific purpose already 04:20:41 I'll make a commit that just goes around renaming sw-specific properties to defines in spl-summoning.h? The only one that might want migrating is target_mid-->sw_target_mid, but that'll also only be a couple turns of confusion, so not worth it. 04:21:03 Then I can see about tackling all the assorted summoner properties. 04:24:11 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:24:11 -!- gammafunk has quit [Client Quit] 04:24:38 I'm kind of bored, is there any thing fun I could try coding? 04:27:13 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:27:29 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:07 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:39 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:33:41 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:41:13 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:45:28 don't complain about unambiguous use of pow by Grandiloquent Gentleman 04:47:09 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:48:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2087-g94868c5: Sync manual from the wiki. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=94868c548cf2 04:48:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2088-g41e6c14: std::cide. 10(11 minutes ago, 4 files, 19+ 19-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=41e6c147eee4 04:48:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2089-g25ff009: Fix a build failure on OS X. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=25ff00942c6a 04:48:52 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:56:24 -!- Silvaris has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:58:05 -!- snwl has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 04:58:50 hmmm... before tackling the migration of a unified summoner_mid property, I've been trying out "I'm within 2 tiles of my owner" in place of "my owner can hit the target" for the sw's AI check. 05:00:12 DracoOmega: I've generally found the sw's ability to temporarily get 2 away from you useful if it needs to path around things, so would rather not enforce 'adjacent to owner' 05:00:36 Yes, a short leash like that seems perfectly fine to me 05:00:42 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:51 but, instead I've got a problem where a non-reaching weapon vs a harpy can freely run out to 2 spaces into open danger. 05:02:05 It's already dangerous to use vs things with AoE damage (fireball, hellfire, axes). I'd prefer to avoid 'batty' to the list of things which it is dangerous to fight with sw. 05:03:31 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:35 The weapon effectively plays safer when it only goes after things the owner is still in range of attacking. 05:04:00 where the weapon rarely ends up advancing past you to reach the target. 05:04:25 Hmmm 05:04:31 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:45 So basically, the issue is that sometimes it is helpful to not leash adjacent, and sometimes it is harmful, and it's hard to algorithmically determine which is which? 05:04:53 yeah 05:05:14 It might be better, to just let the weapon occassionally fail to hit a fast-mobile target (such as harpies and red devils), rather than always hit but sacrifice its own safety to do so. 05:05:25 Potentially. I am not certain. 05:05:43 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 05:05:58 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:06:53 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:06:55 -!- Undo has quit [] 05:06:55 How often would the weapon really end up charging TWO spaces away from you in the length of a single turn? 05:07:10 Harpies and such don't seem fast enough to get that many moves on the weapon, as fast as it is 05:08:02 Since the weapon's turns seem like they would be interleved with the other fast characters, and the harpy needs to act twice to move two steps away from you like that 05:08:04 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:08:07 And isn't the weapon just as fast as it is? 05:08:23 it's possibly really rare, I've had it happen once in many numbers of turns. 05:08:59 However, advancing to the row 1 in front of the player is fairly common, and may still be undesirably dangerous. 05:09:20 not so much vs a lone harpy, but potentially with other enemies. 05:09:47 even with 1 harpy, it suddenly makes the sw a more tempting target. 05:10:13 and the harpy will frequently attack the weapon instead. 05:10:14 is spectral weapon actually "leashed" so its always adjacent to you? 05:10:21 not currently. 05:10:53 On trunk, it will only path towards something that you can attack (which may not be adjacent if you have reach, but then so does the sw) 05:11:29 I think it is okay if some situations make using SW kind of dangerous by the way 05:11:29 I've fixed the reset bug, and have been testing a replacement for that check which simply leashes it to within 2 grid_distance of you 05:11:39 part of the original idea (implicit, never wrote this down) was that the spell would be somewhat less useful in a corridor, unless you somehow get the enemy between you and the spectral weapon 05:11:39 Since I think it is good that there are tactical considerations about when it is good and when it is dangerous 05:11:50 (which would be possible, but unlikely) 05:12:12 well, this is currently an issue in open space. 05:12:56 Also, in a corridor, polearm sw currently attacks past you. This seems to be intuitive behaviour, but we could find a reason to disallow it if you think it's too strong. 05:13:14 I don't see that as an obvious problem, but simply an advantage of polearms there 05:13:38 I consider polearm reach-past and axe double-cleave as some of the stronger SW options. 05:13:45 Yes, I imagine they are 05:13:48 (And that seems fine) 05:14:00 Oh, and the SW automatically fades if you unequip. Not sure if that was in your original proposal or not. 05:14:10 i'm fine with that 05:14:18 Makes sense to me 05:15:11 Anyway, maybe it would be best to only go for the harpies if it thinks it is likely to catch them and attack that turn? Though perhaps that would sometimes be hard to determine in advance due to how turns are presently scheduled 05:15:37 if it's just fast, batty monsters that is a problem, it is probably ok if SW just sucks agains them 05:15:47 Yeah 05:15:58 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:16:03 It actually always manages to catch and attack them. It just throws itself out past you to do so. 05:16:21 It is as fast as normally possible for a monster. 05:16:48 The SW's defenses and damage sharing ratio can be adjusted if some of these situations seem too problematic, but I do actually think it's an okay natural consequence of fighting some of this stuff 05:17:03 (Also, I actually like it that montser cleaving might DO something against a character for a change :P) 05:17:21 for the damage, maybe it could base its stats on some fraction of your weapon skill 05:17:29 Yeah, okay. I'll add monsters that don't stay next to you to the list of things to be careful against with SW. 05:17:37 so at max power, it is based on 100% of your skill, and at low power it's much weaker 05:17:51 I dont know how much it scales with weapon skill atm now 05:18:06 Currently just HD, I think? 05:18:11 yeah, damage scaling is probably a good idea. It doesn't do so at all right now. It's already good early on. 05:18:23 yeah, HD, and thus to-hit is the only effect of skill right now 05:18:31 (by stats I am talking about accuracy and damage here, its durability/duration should just depend on spellpower probably) 05:18:32 Maybe weapon skill could affect damage/accuracy, and charms skill its duration/defenses? 05:18:40 exactly 05:18:42 Ha 05:18:58 that's pretty much how it is now, except damage is the base weapon damage only. 05:19:07 So defenses do scale with spellpower? 05:19:13 yeah 2+pow/10 05:19:18 for both ac and ev 05:19:26 That's still pretty low 05:19:27 or something like that 05:19:28 what's the max power? 05:19:32 yeah, it could stand to be higher. 05:19:34 max at 100 05:20:27 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:20:32 definitely wouldn't want to go too high with defenses. I like it when charms have a high power cap, and reasons for trying to reach it, though 05:20:33 When we restored them from the attempt at using glass-like fragility to balance using it as a tank (failed miserably), I don't think we gave them back full defenses. 05:21:22 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:23:17 So should the leash-check be on the sw's current position or the target's? I've made it the sw's position, but I haven't extensively tested in non-open terrain. 05:23:34 It might try to path outside the leash range, causing it to lose it's readied attack and return to the player. 05:25:18 Possibly that is fine if the terrain is crowded 05:25:30 It might still be intuitive that it can't get around certain obstacles, maybe? 05:25:59 -!- scummos_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:26:00 It really depends on how commonly that kind of situation comes up, and how obvious it is to the player that the terrain is bad or the monsters moving in ways that are bad 05:26:14 (I really should sit down and play with those spells, but I've just been so busy coding a dozen other things) 05:26:20 It'll possibly also do funny dances with a disto-blinked enemy: it will fly out towards the target until it's leash range, then think better of the attack and retreat. 05:26:46 Well, probably it should not even attempt to move towards a target that is beyond its leash range 05:26:55 yeah 05:27:42 then the question becomes, if it can only path towards its owner or its target, and the latter only if the target is within leash range of its owner, does it even need to check its own distance from owner? 05:28:57 Possibly not 05:29:12 Well, maybe if the only path is around some kind of awkward wall, though 05:29:54 Consider something like this 05:29:54 #o... 05:29:54 #@##. 05:29:55 #.(.. 05:30:06 The target is in range, but the path to it is not 05:30:11 the thing is, if I have it give up if it ends up leaving a direct leash range. I don't know how to predict that such a path will be taken. 05:30:49 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:32:04 Yeah, might be hard 05:32:33 Though the obvious solution just results in it dancing behind you, I guess, which might look a little silly but might still be okay 05:34:38 -!- sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:39:13 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:39:22 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 05:39:41 Okay, I have it checking both. So it goes part of the way around the obstacle before returning to you. 05:40:02 The leash range is grid distance 2 between owner and weapon 05:40:59 betwee owner and target, I check grid distance vs 3 for non-reach weapons and 4 for reach weapons, hopefully being fairly consistent about going after things it can reach while staying within 2 of the owner. 05:45:04 I think this is now working in a somewhat intuitive fashion 05:49:15 -!- Tollymain has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:50:26 Glad to hear it 05:55:00 Okay, I think I'll pack up these 4 commits and submit them. I should sleep rather than trying to tackle the universal summoner property. :P 05:55:28 Haha, that sounds sane 06:02:19 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:04:16 Spectral Weapon fixes (AI resetting for real, leash range) by qoala 06:05:15 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:16 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: sleep] 06:10:52 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:19 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:52 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:40:13 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:41:09 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:04:53 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:30 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:08:08 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:08:34 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 07:10:04 -!- datgum has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:10:33 -!- scummos_ is now known as scummos 07:10:48 -!- dosman711 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:12:31 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:14:26 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 07:26:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:30:59 -!- help_me has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:31:31 -!- darktwinge has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:08 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:34:53 -!- dosman711 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:45:01 -!- snwl has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 07:52:24 -!- Voker57 has quit [] 08:02:25 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:03:46 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:07:48 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:13:32 -!- Nicksvaffel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:13:56 -!- rkd has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:27 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:32 -!- giorgian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:26:53 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:27:55 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:28:39 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:59 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:03 -!- tswett has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:35:03 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:07 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 08:53:29 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:57:34 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:38 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:19 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 09:05:27 -!- pelotron_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:31 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:20 -!- lasserith has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 09:12:08 -!- lasserith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:28 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:15:21 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:08 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:02 cptwinky (L23 HODK) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 701) (D:26) 09:35:00 dpeg: your mailing list post gave me an idea: let's remove temple as a branch and turn it into a serial vault, same as some people were proposing to do with Blade 09:37:48 oh, all the temple layouts I made :) 09:37:49 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 09:38:17 dpeg: the sacrifices we make for progress! :) 09:38:31 Wensley: it would certainly work. However, having Temple as a branch has some advantages -- for example "get to Temple" is a nice goal for new players. 09:38:37 indeed 09:38:44 "get to temple floor" 09:38:45 perhaps it's been too long since I was a new player 09:38:59 I can think of ways to repurpose temple layouts into regular D parts 09:39:01 I don't even bother entering temple in a lot of games 09:39:24 'GT' command is really convenient 09:39:25 Blade is problematic in ways that Temple is not, imo. 09:39:29 either I'm with trog, or I just pick up a random overflow god 09:39:33 plus as a serial vault non-gimmick altars can finally become a majority 09:39:38 dpeg: Blade seems a bunch better these days, anyway 09:39:53 It would certainly be possible to dispose of the Temple; mostly an aesthetic question, I believe. 09:40:09 tenofswords: non-gimmick? 09:40:19 DracoOmega: cool! 09:40:24 cough, cough 09:40:48 (I did said blade twisting, I still need to get around to giving it more meaningful layout randomization) 09:40:54 meh, what if the temple only had a single altar? 09:41:01 that altar could start you at ** piety or something 09:41:09 dpeg: on the other hand, getting rid of temple also nerfs stashing and mummies >:) 09:41:39 One thing that Temple does show is that most gods go along quite nicely. 09:42:08 dpeg: well, I'm just thinking of the many overflow altars with things like thematic monsters behind glass, feature recolours, etc that got recently amplified with double-overflow-altar functionality 09:42:38 (clearly never should have noticed the unused broken things at the bottom of temple.des) 09:43:10 tenofswords: if you're a sockpuppet for hangedman then you need to pick less obvious names 09:43:19 I really like the overflow altars where access is non-trivial. 09:43:49 I don't mind the idea of _threats_ for overflows (I think that the nemelex teleporter vault is one of the best overflow aults we have), I'm just thinking of, well 09:44:06 to use an example that was recently duplicated, an imp with a chaos dagger 09:44:35 Well, I made the one where you have to fly over lava/water, and I like it. Comes up way too rarely to matter, imo :) 09:44:52 dpeg: that's the only overflow altar that I hear people cursing all the time :P 09:45:00 that is good but at the same time it's been overshadowed by so many new vaults 09:45:04 curse those vaultmaker guys 09:45:31 wensley: would you prefer radiosilence, silentradiance, greatorbofeyes, claws, ... 09:45:51 yes, any of those 09:46:03 but tarot referencesssssss 09:46:06 you're so bad at faking your own death 09:46:11 faking? 09:46:28 irc from beyond the grave 09:46:33 I've been waiting for the last stool leg to be cut for months now 09:46:57 though technically speaking I started dead 09:47:01 did perma buffs every get to the implementable stage? 09:49:02 -!- cbus has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:49:53 Wensley: players cursing == their way of complimenting the devteam 09:50:11 lol 09:50:28 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:31 now we just have to make a curse jar 09:50:34 removing the temple branch sounds like a really bad idea to me 09:50:35 Personally, I would accept less cursing and more complimenting :P 09:50:48 If it's just the same to them 09:50:59 removing temple branch would ruin branchless 09:51:03 DracoOmega: so would I, but my take allows me to accept reality for a bit longer :) 09:51:10 Haha 09:51:53 evilmike: alright then! Do you think the current range for overflow altars is good enough? It's never been modified, if my memory serves right. 09:52:31 -!- tswett_ is now known as tswett 09:52:33 its a cool milestone for new players, and even for me, the early game is the most tense part of crawl, and reaching temple (and later, lair) feel like a big milestone. overflow altars diminish this 09:52:48 although they aren't a problem usually, since most temple layouts are big 09:53:12 the overflow altar range is fine, I wouldn't change it. I don't like that one with a square of water/lava though 09:53:33 all cool, but the last part :) 09:53:55 * dpeg suspects that evilmike only plays mummies and then is unable to quaff levitation 09:54:06 !learn add devteam <@dpeg> Wensley: players cursing == their way of complimenting the devteam 09:54:06 devteam[11/11]: <@dpeg> Wensley: players cursing == their way of complimenting the devteam 09:54:34 I always use ID scrolls on potions, so that doesn't matter. But for scrolls I read-ID 09:55:09 so if I want that altar, I trek back to it every time I find a new scroll, unless I'm short on food, which is pretty much never the case 09:56:13 ah, I see 09:56:38 I do it differently, so I never had that 09:58:14 surely only if you have two of a scroll to ID, or have teleportation separately? 09:58:21 oh, it has a >, doesn't it 09:58:30 maybe it should lose the > and become no_rtele_into instead :) 09:58:44 elliott: you always get out 09:59:12 otherwise, !lev could get you stranded there (although not godless anymore :) 09:59:48 mamga (L15 DrSk) ASSERT(rar > 0) in 'random-pick.h' at line 64 failed. (Rarity 0: 112 at level 10) (Lair:8) 09:59:50 thats not what no_rtele_into does 10:00:16 there is no_tele_into, but you're not allowed to use that 10:00:35 my understanding is that no_rtele_into prevents randomly teleporting into a vault. 10:00:48 and no_tele_into = no_rtele_into + no_ctele_into 10:01:00 yes 10:01:20 and no_tele_into should be used ... rarely 10:01:32 blinking isn't teleportation! 10:01:39 I assumed the purpose of the > was to prevent stranding people who rtele there, !flight lasts much longer than it takes to walk over and worship after all 10:02:01 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:03 elliott: the vault was made when you had to wait until levitations wears off before you could pray 10:02:10 (I hope that makes sense) 10:02:29 hah, nice 10:03:05 now they have magical floating altars :) 10:03:07 anyway, the > is still good for ?blinking purposes 10:03:38 well, I was thinking of ?blinking -- evilmike said he went there whenever he wanted to identify a scroll, in case it was ?blinking -- if you needed two of 'em then he'd have to travel back less often 10:03:54 but, probably very few gods are worth two blinking scrolls in the early game anyway 10:03:54 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:05:33 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:06:44 yes, too expensive imo 10:07:42 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:08:13 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:09:51 * Grunt appears! (for the moment) 10:09:56 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:10:14 * dpeg disappears (blood sport) 10:10:23 hey grunt can I just replace one of your forest:$ vaults 10:14:06 (maybe I should just find some playthings to test http://sprunge.us/eijG) 10:19:07 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:19:15 -!- snwl has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 10:26:28 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:47 -!- radiosilence has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:13 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:15 -!- radiosilence has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:38:02 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:39:21 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:43:28 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:03 is there a min delay for launchers? 10:56:01 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 10:57:36 <|amethyst> kilobyte: should we remove the extra pow overloads for Solaris and gcc 4.1? 10:57:43 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:01:13 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:01:13 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 11:01:35 <|amethyst> mumra: I'm confuse about why 6e1df92 is checking the old mclass instead of the new one 11:01:38 <|amethyst> confused 11:02:39 |amethyst: because new mclass is the species, not the monster 11:02:47 <|amethyst> mumra: and old mclass is? 11:02:51 the monster 11:03:02 the original value that was passed in 11:03:14 LexAckson: yes; it depends on the launcher. 11:03:16 <|amethyst> mumra: I thought it was the monster itself 11:03:23 <|amethyst> mumra: the one undergoing polymorph 11:03:48 ah crap 11:04:11 humm 11:04:34 well basically bh has used a function not designed for the purpose he's using it for (and that M_UNIQUE check was completely moot anyway) 11:04:40 so this hasn't broken anything *more* 11:04:54 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:05:25 tbh _valid_morph works in a pretty unexpected way 11:06:42 actually i don't see why it even calls mon_species, since mclass should already *be* a species 11:06:53 |amethyst: they were needed for other places, for non-integer exponents 11:07:50 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:07:52 <|amethyst> kilobyte: non-integer like (double, int) or like (double, double)? 11:08:30 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I ask because one of the overloads there is (int, int) which would have fixed 7265 11:09:06 can multiple arachnes in D be fixed this way 11:09:34 |amethyst: old_mclass wasn't even being used for anything before; what on earth is in fact going on with this function?? 11:10:06 <|amethyst> mumra: Have you tried polymorphing a unique since the change? 11:10:26 <|amethyst> I just tested and Jessica looks momentarily different. several times in a row 11:10:35 haha 11:10:40 ok, maybe it did break something 11:12:19 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2090-g1fea7b8: Revert "Fix previously broken but moot polymorph validity check for M_UNIQUE" 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1fea7b84a67c 11:12:20 oh right, i see what old_mclass was used for 11:13:12 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:52 !messages 11:14:53 No messages for TZer0. 11:15:08 |amethyst: any progress on figuring out what is going wrong on CLAN? 11:15:15 I've deactivated the compression. 11:15:31 <|amethyst> let's see 11:15:35 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:47 <|amethyst> !lg * clan xl>10 -ttyrec 11:15:48 345. Desperu, XL14 GrEE, T:26279: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/ttyrec/Desperu/ 2013-06-26.05:56:36.ttyrec 2013-06-26.07:15:00.ttyrec 2013-06-26.11:57:00.ttyrec 2013-06-26.15:15:59.ttyrec 11:16:14 It's still serving the old client.html for me 11:16:56 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:18 <|amethyst> TZer0: as Medar mentions (unrelated to the ttyrec problem) connecting to webtiels gets stuck on "Loading..." because it needs the updated game_data 11:17:43 !tell bh I had to revert 6e1df92 because I misunderstood the functiona and it broke normal polymorph working on uniques. Not sure how best to sort out the mess that is _valid_morph, maybe you should look at this, at least you know where the problem is now! 11:17:44 mumra: OK, I'll let bh know. 11:18:07 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2090-g1fea7b8 (34) 11:18:17 <|amethyst> what is the most unique-heavy genus? 11:18:28 Humans 11:18:29 <|amethyst> in terms of uniques/nonuniques ration 11:18:32 <|amethyst> ratio 11:18:38 I still assume humans 11:18:44 <|amethyst> hm 11:18:59 <|amethyst> is there anything with one unique and one or two non-uniques? 11:19:20 Well, tengu have 1 unique and 4 non-uniques at the moment 11:19:55 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:55 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:19:58 |amethyst: 7265 tried to fix it by adding that overload, but it's not necessary because writing it as x*x*x rather than pow(x, 3) is more efficient anyway 11:20:00 ogres have 1 and 3 11:23:45 <|amethyst> TZer0: that one does not seem to be truncated 11:24:11 <|amethyst> kilobyte: right, but that's probably not the only place we do pow(int,int) 11:24:31 <|amethyst> kilobyte: or, if it was, we don't need the pow(int, int) overload for Solaris 11:25:09 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:19 <|amethyst> kilobyte: since anything fixed by that on Solaris is apparently broken on at least some Macs 11:25:58 <|amethyst> !lg * clan xl>10 -2 -ttyrec 11:25:59 344/345. stonewall, XL13 OgEn, T:31390: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/ttyrec/stonewall/2013-06-26.13:32:38.ttyrec 11:26:03 <|amethyst> !lg * clan xl>10 -3 -ttyrec 11:26:04 343/345. nago, XL27 LOSk, T:64565: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/ttyrec/nago/ 2013-06-26.08:47:01.ttyrec 2013-06-26.09:02:33.ttyrec 2013-06-26.09:20:05.ttyrec 2013-06-26.11:30:10.ttyrec 11:26:53 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:34 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2091-g2b2fa88: Don't fail random pick on 0 rarity 10(25 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2b2fa887ae75 11:28:04 |amethyst: well, but it did work before, didn't it? 11:28:05 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:35 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 11:29:37 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2090-g1fea7b8 (34) 11:29:39 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: My worry is that someone else will call pow() on integer arguments (which works on most versions of gcc) and we'll have more Mac breakage 11:31:41 <|amethyst> I guess no one is likely to do that with a large power, though, since it's not likely to produce a result that fits into an int 11:32:03 Isn't force_more_message supposed to stop traveling? 11:32:10 joosa: no, that's travel_stop_message. 11:32:22 No, I mean it also should imply stopping travel 11:32:25 could actually be better to write an integer implementation 11:32:43 or even better, forbid overloads there 11:32:54 It makes sense, doesn't it? 11:33:00 <|amethyst> kilobyte: forbid overloads? 11:33:11 You want to stop what you're going if you define some force_more_messages 11:33:19 -> You also want to stop autotravel 11:33:23 |amethyst: powf(), etc 11:33:39 Now, you only get a more prompt and it happily continues traveling 11:33:47 I don't want to stop autotravel on everything that I get a force_more for. 11:34:01 I guess I only have those kind of force_mores 11:34:17 <|amethyst> kilobyte: you mean call powf() whenever we have integer arguments? 11:34:29 LexAckson: galehar (i think) has been talking about doing permabuffs for as long as i can remember, it's not an "implementable" in the mantis sense, but a patch would be welcomed if someoe came up with a good implementation 11:34:40 LexAckson: have you see the various discussions on it (tavern/wiki) ? 11:34:48 |amethyst: Forgot to mention. I pushed a change yesterday that could use a WebTiles server restart. Until it's done redirecting back to lobby when you stop playing is broken. Not that big of a deal, of course. 11:35:02 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:35:30 <|amethyst> TZer0: yeah, that one also seems to be non-truncated 11:35:36 <|amethyst> TZer0: so it's some kind of problem with the compression 11:37:54 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I guess all platforms we support have powf? 11:38:05 <|amethyst> kilobyte: Since they're either Posix or Visual Studio 11:42:47 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:43:03 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:43:10 <|amethyst> TZer0: ohh 11:43:34 <|amethyst> TZer0: do you have lsof installed (in the host, not the chroot)? 11:44:21 <|amethyst> TZer0: it's needed to tell whether the file is currently in use 11:44:32 <|amethyst> TZer0: and to refuse to compress it in that case 11:44:55 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:45:05 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:46:31 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2092-g84cbdbc: Make Spectral Weapon reset on player's next turn for real this time. 10(8 hours ago, 3 files, 33+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=84cbdbc3d473 11:46:31 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2093-g9df61e6: Prefix spectral weapon properties with "sw_" and use #define for them. 10(7 hours ago, 4 files, 24+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9df61e6a4e06 11:46:31 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2094-ga9b6166: On reset of a Spectral Weapon, remove the target if we're not tracking. 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a9b6166ebe9b 11:46:31 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2095-g4cc4775: Leash Spectral Weapon to a range of 2, let it attack retreating targets. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 11+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4cc477575262 11:46:46 <|amethyst> TZer0: I wrote the lsof check but then completely forgot about it, including the fact that it silently fails in the wrong direction if lsof is missing 11:47:18 |amethyst: we use regular pow() on doubles everywhere, never on floats. There are ints in one case, and floating point literals in others. 11:47:28 nice pseudo-strong-typing for properties there 11:47:31 const int chance = pow(3, player_mutation_level(MUT_BERSERK) - 1); 11:47:47 <|amethyst> kilobyte: There are ints in more than one case 11:49:06 I can't seem to find any other such case 11:49:07 <|amethyst> kilobyte: e.g. the ones in skills.cc that cast to double 11:49:25 <|amethyst> kilobyte: they use an int as the second argument 11:49:26 ah yes, none that pass them as ints though 11:51:22 <|amethyst> I'm trying to remember which ones broke on gcc 4.1 last night for me 11:52:16 <|amethyst> kilobyte: player.cc has a pow(int, double) 11:52:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: which I guess is fine because that shouldn't be ambiguous 11:52:59 what's the point in pow(int, 2)? 11:53:36 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 11:53:45 the result is then put into an int variable, so it can't be about overflows 11:53:47 <|amethyst> readability? 11:53:53 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:54:03 sqr(x) then :p 11:54:16 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:21 <|amethyst> hm, and the pow(int, double) there is really just sqrt() 11:56:07 mumra: 2b2fa887ae752b55d2232950b11acaf50caf1d26 is wrong, that assert points out there's a bug in related code. Rarity should never be 0, if it is, the data is incorrect. 11:57:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:44 it's debatable how it should be fixed: either by rounding up, or by removing depths where the chance is 0 11:58:43 -!- Voker57 has quit [] 11:59:05 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2096-ge3667d1: Don't use floating point pow() for squaring an int. 10(66 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e3667d170d4a 11:59:10 kilobyte: maybe the rarity function should return a float 11:59:29 (or a float multiplied by 100) 11:59:39 int you mean 11:59:48 no, i mean a double 12:00:27 in this specific case it's attempting to do: return 50 * (1/11) 12:00:46 oh wait no 12:00:52 it's actually return 10 * (1/11) 12:00:59 so this rounds down to zero 12:01:12 when there should actually be a very tiny chance of that monster being chosen 12:01:23 yes, and this mean the data is misleading, exactly what this assert is supposed to guard against 12:01:38 yes, and i'm saying the calculations should be floating-point instead of truncating to integer 12:01:49 because that would implement the correct behaviour 12:02:14 <|amethyst> what is the entry in question? 12:02:32 the entry itself is questionable; very low chance of giant mites from sack of spiders 12:02:57 it was at least a useful ASSERTM ;) 12:03:00 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2097-gde9a4ab: Write pow(x, 0.5) as sqrt(x), for readability. 10(44 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=de9a4ab73938 12:03:30 1learn add bad4chan [Crawl] Devs are worse than Biskup. 12:03:47 perhaps you meant ##crawl 12:05:18 oops 12:07:24 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:37 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:45 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2096-ge3667d1 (34) 12:09:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:10:11 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:37 mumra: hmm, it never occured to me to watch for rounding as mon-pick has a scale of 10000 12:11:50 to use floats, the selection loop would need to be written very carefully because of off-by-one errors 12:11:54 kilobyte: really? some of the pop_entry tables have some very low rarities 12:12:30 i think it's only by chance that this bug hasn't been triggered somewhere before 12:12:40 mumra, I've seen most of the ideas, yeah. I have some working code right now for it which has mp cost over time and recast to remove. 12:12:41 mumra: the data comes from actual old probabilities, and is fitted _from_ results 12:13:17 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2098-gcb18715: Revert "Don't fail random pick on 0 rarity" 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cb18715fadbf 12:13:17 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2099-gde8e8e0: Reduce giant mites' range a mite. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=de8e8e0bc01e 12:13:47 kilobyte: tweaking the pop_entry tables would be a very easy way to cause this bug inadvertently, if someone didn't realise these fairly stringent conditions applied ... 12:13:47 <|amethyst> can we at least have some documentation saying that with DOWN the range has to be smaller than the probability? 12:13:50 I think it works alright, but it's not really elegant 12:13:55 <|amethyst> because I would not have guessed that 12:14:04 as far as the interface goes 12:14:31 |amethyst: good point 12:15:03 I'm pretty afraid of floats and exact comparisons in cases like there 12:15:15 what exact comparisons? 12:15:17 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 12:15:21 because 1 + 1 might be > 2, and the algorithm relies on it 12:15:48 (not actual 1 with actual 2 because these are represented exactly) 12:15:50 could just multiply the rarities up by 100 or some arbitrary value before dividing 12:15:56 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 12:15:58 yeah 12:16:07 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:18 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:44 60 handles typical small divisors, I wonder if it makes sense to include 7, 11, 13. 12:18:14 blasted small integers include so many primes :/ 12:18:20 haha 12:19:01 i don't know if it's worth overthinking too much 12:19:14 I believe that floats are precise for integer values... 12:19:31 elliott: not when divided by a prime 12:19:32 (within a certain reasonable range comparable to that of an int) 12:19:36 oh 12:19:44 hmm 12:20:01 maybe we need a fractional class after all? 12:20:05 (2 is technically a prime, but you know what I mean) 12:20:31 * kilobyte compares two subsequent things mumra just said. 12:20:49 :) 12:21:45 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:38 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:27:29 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:28:33 <|amethyst> kilobyte: with your changes, gcc 4.1 just compiled fine without those pow() overloads... can you try disabling them and compiling on Solaris? The sqrt() and atan2() overloads are probably still needed 12:28:42 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:01 <|amethyst> likewise Visual Studio (mumra?)---the pow overloads in msvc.h probably aren't needed now 12:30:28 very possibly, i can check 12:31:08 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2100-gafa23c3: Scale the calculations in mon-pick by 2520. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=afa23c35285b 12:31:08 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2101-ge6f16a2: Revert "Reduce giant mites' range a mite." 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e6f16a25c2bc 12:35:54 <|amethyst> kilobyte: < rwbarton> somehow i doubt multiplying an int by 2520 will change whether it is zero 12:37:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:45 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2102-ge7f48cf: Revert "Fix compilation with old (4.1) GCC and libstdc++" 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e7f48cfcf7d5 12:41:21 |amethyst: bug report: "explicitely" :) 12:41:39 kilobyte: oh, did you know about the "gcore" command in GDB? 12:42:20 SamB: yeah, a nice thing if you forget to set ulimit -c 12:42:28 |amethyst: rwbarton doesn't understand the case 12:42:37 |amethyst: the int isn't zero at the time it's multiplied 12:42:38 <|amethyst> mumra: I don't think I understand either 12:42:47 <|amethyst> mumra: then why was the assert failing? 12:42:56 because it gets divided later 12:43:00 oh wait 12:43:01 haha 12:43:05 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2103-gbcb4613: Multiply before division, not after. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bcb461393b07 12:43:08 yeah, it see 12:43:13 kilobyte: I thought it generated coredumps in software ... 12:43:22 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:27 i wasn't fully paying attention to *where* it was getting muliplied 12:44:02 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:10 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2104-g78cd2d8: Fix spelling (elliott) 10(48 seconds ago, 3 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=78cd2d891498 12:44:29 |amethyst: wow, not following the standard spelling error fix commit message. 12:44:39 crawl has gone to hell ever since dolorous left! 12:45:04 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:34 you might even say it's become rather dolorous... 12:45:34 <|amethyst> elliott: :P 12:45:47 <|amethyst> dolor sic amet! 12:46:00 <|amethyst> err, s/sic/sit/ 12:46:46 dolor [sic] amet 12:48:16 -!- dcss46254 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:06 <|amethyst> re the polymoth stuff 12:55:27 <|amethyst> I *think* getting rid of the conversion to species on _is_valid_morph should work without breaking things 12:57:00 <|amethyst> but would need some testing 12:57:14 <|amethyst> also, I wonder if that draconian thing is actually effective 12:57:46 <|amethyst> oh, by "non-base" it means colour not job 12:58:27 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:58:39 -!- Zermako has quit [] 13:03:30 <|amethyst> Why do we say "It is mindless." in the description of I_INSECT monsters? 13:03:50 <|amethyst> I thought the whole point of splitting I_REPTILE was so that insects aren't mindless 13:04:38 <|amethyst> (splitting I_REPTILE as opposed to just moving all insects to I_PLANT) 13:06:08 <|amethyst> I realise we need to give some feedback about whether you can pacify them, but there are other differences (like wandering into clouds or traps) 13:07:44 they're smart enough to recognise a trap but not to be pacified? even though pacification is currently something you can do to [insert animal you think is really dumb]? 13:08:23 giant cockroach (07s) | Spd: 12 | HD: 1 | HP: 3-7 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 2 | Res: 06magic(1) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1 | Sz: little | Int: insect. 13:08:23 %??giant cockroach 13:08:58 oklob plant (09P) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 560 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 13:08:58 %??oklob plant 13:09:04 thorn hunter (16P) | Spd: 12 | HD: 14 | HP: 68-111 | AC/EV: 8/8 | Dam: 22, 16 | 03plant, sense invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 2339 | Sp: thorns volley (3d20), brambles wall | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 13:09:04 %??thorn hunter 13:09:18 which of these is not like the others? 13:09:53 <|amethyst> each 13:10:26 <|amethyst> cockroach is the only one that's not a plant and doesn't have an unranged attack; oklob is the only one that's immobile; and thorn hunter is the only one that can be pacified 13:11:00 <|amethyst> s/unranged/ranged/ 13:12:22 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:13:26 what's a thorn hunter, even 13:13:45 just how much do I miss when I stop paying attention for what seems to be a little while... 13:14:57 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 13:16:26 |amethyst: I was thinking "thorn hunter is a plant but has animal intelligence" 13:16:37 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:02 <|amethyst> SamB: it's supposed to be an intelligent plant 13:18:18 <|amethyst> well, semi-intelligent anyway 13:18:30 <|amethyst> I_PLANT and I_ANIMAL are bad names 13:18:47 <|amethyst> or, rather, they shouldn't be taken to mean "this is a plant" "this is an animal" 13:19:03 I_DUMB, I_SMART 13:19:04 <|amethyst> rather, "this is as smart as the typical plant", "this is as smart as the typical mammal" 13:19:20 I_CAN_OPEN_DOORS_AND_USE_ITEMS 13:22:42 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller suggests removing (player) summoning altogether 13:22:56 <|amethyst> or removing the LOS limitation 13:24:38 new spell 13:24:41 summon player 13:27:16 <|amethyst> bah 13:27:17 -!- |amethyst has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:37:12 Zaba: read the changelog i guess ;) 13:37:16 Zaba: hi btw! 13:37:30 hai 13:40:42 -!- Xares has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:42 tell |amethyst yeah i thought this might work but i didn't want to mess with it again after my first attempt ;) -- <|amethyst> I *think* getting rid of the conversion to species on _is_valid_morph should work without breaking things 13:41:45 !tell |amethyst yeah i thought this might work but i didn't want to mess with it again after my first attempt ;) -- <|amethyst> I *think* getting rid of the conversion to species on _is_valid_morph should work without breaking things 13:41:46 mumra: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 13:42:28 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:43:14 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:57 -!- marcmagus has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:59:55 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:02:41 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2105-gb463ac8: Increase cap and timeout of demonic horde 10(45 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b463ac89eb81 14:07:40 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 not sure if you saw my messages earlier... probably you don't have lsof on the host? compress-ttyrecs needs that to tell whether the file is in use 14:07:41 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 14:08:41 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:49 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:16:56 EriktheRed the Brawler (L18 GrMo) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded_keys_left) in 'macro.cc' at line 549 failed on turn 46916. (Vaults:2) 14:17:41 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun=~expanded_keys_left 14:17:41 18. [2013-06-26 19:16:56] EriktheRed the Brawler (L18 GrMo) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded keys left) in 'macro.cc' at line 549 failed on turn 46916. (Vaults:2) 14:17:44 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun=~expanded_keys_left -2 14:17:44 17/18. [2013-05-20 11:50:29] PilchardFriendly the Chucker (L8 MiBe) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded keys left) in 'macro.cc' at line 549 failed on turn 6886. (D:6) 14:17:47 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun=~expanded_keys_left -3 14:17:48 16/18. [2013-05-11 00:38:06] Kidiri the Ruinous (L5 DrCj) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded keys left) in 'macro.cc' at line 550 failed on turn 4098. (D:3) 14:17:52 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun=~expanded_keys_left -4 14:17:52 15/18. [2013-02-10 13:36:55] Zermako the Insei (L3 SEMo) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded keys left) in 'macro.cc' at line 549 failed on turn 455. (D:1) 14:17:53 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun=~expanded_keys_left 1 14:17:55 1/18. [2010-07-12 18:47:40] Aliza the Sneak (L1 MuAs) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded keys left) in 'macro.cc' at line 526 failed on turn 290. (D:1) 14:18:00 <|amethyst> hm 14:18:31 nice 2010 14:18:56 <|amethyst> I remember looking into that at some point but never solved it 14:19:22 <|amethyst> that code looks suspicious to me though 14:19:26 <|amethyst> ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded_keys_left); 14:19:26 <|amethyst> expanded_keys_left = Buffer.size(); 14:19:32 <|amethyst> what's the point of the second line? 14:20:07 <|amethyst> %git 9dc5ce5 14:20:07 07by * 0.7.0-a0-1714-g9dc5ce5: Track what keys in the macro buffer have been expanded. 10(3 years, 1 month ago, 2 files, 40+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9dc5ce5f16f3 14:20:42 to be extra sure 14:21:01 |amethyst: oh maybe because of the (int)??? 14:21:28 <|amethyst> elliott: that should only matter if there are more than 2 billion keys 14:21:33 <|amethyst> in the buffer 14:22:36 |amethyst: you can never be sure 14:22:40 <|amethyst> oh, I guess the second line is there in case you have asserts disabled 14:22:59 because software works so well after passing a failed assert 14:24:32 |amethyst: oh do you not get henzell messages 14:25:37 <|amethyst> mumra: no, I saw that one "yeah i thought this might work..." 14:26:05 cool, it wasn't an important message or anything anyway ;) 14:26:25 <|amethyst> I still don't know how I feel about polymorphing creatures into things with jobs 14:26:57 <|amethyst> but without that polymoth does little 14:27:42 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:29:47 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:53 guidance counselor moth 14:34:57 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:07 -!- Duralumin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:39:04 <|amethyst> Medar: :) 14:41:32 it seems very wrong to me, yes 14:42:02 like exactly what polymorph shouldn't be doing 14:54:20 -!- marquess has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:54:52 -!- GRAVITATION has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:56:07 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:46 -!- Duralumin__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:14 All Makhleb Abilities Listed Incorrectly by Arrhythmia 14:58:39 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:00:01 re summons, apparently "This is even worse than the time mountain dwarves got removed." 15:00:53 so that's "praise by faint damning" then 15:00:53 congratulations Crawl developers, you've apparently outdone yourselves or something 15:01:38 But I mean that comment still seemed pretty halfhearted 15:02:09 Not over-the-top enough to compete with the MD removal ones 15:03:05 well you didn't see the other comments in that particular source, but no certainly nothing quite extreme as it got over MD yet 15:03:51 maybe if you'd targeted something more popular 15:04:22 go for round 2 of Mountain Dwarves by removing either Minotaurs or Fighters 15:06:19 why not both 15:07:05 well you should really try to drag these things out I think 15:07:22 I guess you could just remove Minotaurs, Fighters, and Okawaru all at once though 15:07:57 the problem is that then some of the complaints might actually be legitimate 15:11:46 Remove all races but Hu. Remove all backgrounds (give the player a +0 and +0 leather armour to start). Remove all branches. Reduce D to one level. Remove all vaults and layouts; make D:1 one room with the Orb of Zot. 15:12:12 *+0 short sword 15:12:49 so futurecrawl is basically sprint? 15:13:06 That would suggest elaborate map layouts. We'll have none of that, thanks. 15:13:09 Too many monsters, too. 15:13:14 hahaha 15:13:29 Too many items, for that matter. 15:13:33 Remove all items. Remove skills. 15:13:49 Remove attributes. 15:14:02 Hunger stays, so the player has a time limit. 15:14:07 remove movement 15:14:15 Remove combat. 15:14:17 remove HP 15:14:33 is that an attribute actually 15:16:01 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:16:12 -!- Tollymain has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:19:27 -!- Duralumin_ is now known as Duralumin 15:20:20 * geekosaur already suggested once: just the player and the orb, but the orb has other ideas... 15:20:21 SwissStopwatch: Then it would be practically meatsprint. 15:21:03 Meatsprint is too complicated; too much space to wander around in and too many enemies. 15:21:28 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:41 Remove excitement. 15:23:17 also now this is an entirely different joke 15:24:06 Remove humour. 15:25:08 i think i got the best solution 15:25:12 Remove Crawl. 15:25:23 So Dungeon Stone Soup? 15:25:31 Yes. 15:25:46 Devs open up a bar that serves soup. 15:25:47 Remove dungeons. 15:25:51 The end. 15:25:51 Medar: i finding game stick on the death screen and don't return to the lobby (s-z webtiles) 15:26:09 mumra: Same stuff on lantea. 15:27:11 <|amethyst> that's fixed but needs a restart 15:30:16 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:31:43 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:33:30 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:36:54 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:37:04 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:38:36 Can't get back to lobby by battaile 15:39:45 Webtiles server stopped. 15:39:50 Webtiles server started. 15:40:32 should I add profiles in Mantis for CLAN? 15:40:37 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:39 and RHF 15:41:24 <|amethyst> Napkin: possibly; or remove the individual servers from that list altogether 15:41:42 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:41:44 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:45 even if the list is getting long, it is quite useful 15:41:50 the info i mean 15:42:53 Napkin: could we have a custom field for "which server" 15:43:22 usually the important thing is just whether it's console or webtiles 15:43:41 it's useful to know the server only to check that person's save / morgue / whatever 15:43:45 (usually) 15:43:46 if you have time to add it, i'll install it 15:44:11 when i was using a recent version of mantis, there was an ability in the admin backend to add as many custom fields as you wanted 15:44:37 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:39 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:42 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2106-gbaa47d0: Fix display of HP costs (#7267). 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=baa47d0fd445 15:46:04 adding the field is not the problem 15:46:31 adding it to the issue_report page and the display_issue page takes time 15:47:48 newer versions handle that much more smoothly i think; of course i realise an upgrade might be some work too :P 15:48:12 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:48:21 -!- nooodl_ is now known as nooodl 15:48:54 on the version i saw, when i was setting up a project i could create as many fields as i wanted, specify drop-down options, control display order, etc., all within the UI 15:49:36 -!- Duralumin has quit [Client Quit] 15:52:31 nooodl: vauledit 15:52:59 Reading the recent commits, and nothing to inspire vitriol other than possibly bh's moth 15:52:59 Also, Jory now has almost as many kills as Mnoleg. Maybe it's time we buffed him? 15:53:04 Not that it isn't cool 15:53:16 -!- notlainiw has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53:37 <|amethyst> Lightli: buffed mnoleg? 15:53:46 Yeah 15:53:58 <|amethyst> !killratio mnoleg 15:54:00 mnoleg wins 0.879% of battles. 15:54:00 Lightli: i might take another look at it, maybe, soon 15:54:05 <|amethyst> !killratio gloorx vloq 15:54:06 No battles for gloorx and No games for vloq.. 15:54:07 !killratio lom_lobon 15:54:09 lom_lobon wins 0.435% of battles. 15:54:09 !killratio mnoleg 15:54:11 mnoleg wins 0.879% of battles. 15:54:12 wow 15:54:13 <|amethyst> !killratio gloorx_vloq 15:54:15 gloorx_vloq wins 1.615% of battles. 15:54:20 <|amethyst> !killratio lom_lobon 15:54:22 lom_lobon wins 0.435% of battles. 15:54:23 !killratio jorry 15:54:24 surprising that mnoleg beats lom 15:54:24 No battles for jorry. 15:54:26 !killratio jory 15:54:27 <|amethyst> !killratio cerebov 15:54:29 jory wins 0.874% of battles. 15:54:29 cerebov wins 5.906% of battles. 15:54:37 Buff lom I guess 15:54:43 Buff them bot 15:54:44 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:54:46 *both 15:54:55 !killratio antaeus 15:54:57 antaeus wins 4.142% of battles. 15:55:36 !killratio orb_mimic 15:55:42 People actually die to Anteus 15:55:50 No battles for orb_mimic. 15:55:52 !killratio sigmund 15:55:55 sigmund wins 28.41% of battles. 15:55:56 !killratio Dispater 15:55:57 Dispater wins 2.150% of battles. 15:56:19 ??pm 15:56:19 private messages[1/1]: If you need to read all of a topic, use these (/msg henzell ??foo) instead, so you don't choke up discussion on the whole channel. Henzell will respond in private. Henzell will also respond to some ! (foo) commands in private, Gretell will respond to @ commands in private, and Sequell will respond to !lg, !lm, and even !tv. 15:56:21 -!- mamga has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:12 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:16 -!- gammafunk has left ##crawl-dev 15:57:57 -!- testa3421 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:58:01 !killratio Grinder 15:58:03 Grinder wins 23.73% of battles. 15:58:26 !killratio Murray 15:58:28 Murray wins 0.242% of battles. 15:58:34 !lg * killer=Murray 15:58:35 No games for * (killer=Murray). 15:59:06 !lg * killer=ignacio 15:59:06 15. flaco the Metallomancer (L27 HuEE), worshipper of Ashenzari, slain by Ignacio (a +3,+4 executioner's axe of pain) in Pandemonium on 2013-05-19 21:44:26, with 748602 points after 94398 turns and 10:17:23. 16:01:07 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:01:31 !lg * ikiller=murray 16:01:31 4. Mietzsche the Minotaur Barricade (L27 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, mangled by a ghoul (summoned by Murray) in Hell (vestibule_of_hell_mu) on 2012-11-02 07:02:02, with 576227 points after 88233 turns and 10:55:23. 16:03:44 oh 16:18:29 !lg * ckiller=murray 16:18:30 No games for * (ckiller=murray). 16:18:32 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:39 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:19:40 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:21:41 -!- Silvaris has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:25:05 -!- Vaeh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25:36 -!- yuastnav_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:28:51 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:13 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:31:59 -!- six40sword has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:02 Is 4 bonus damage all that impressive late game? Though admittedly, it's flat damage (not just an increase in the max damage roll) 16:33:23 (infusion, so bonus damage on successful hits) 16:37:02 -!- lainiw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:58 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:24 mumra: where did you find that comment about summon cap? 16:46:33 Hi dpeg! 16:46:51 dpeg: 4chan roguelike thread heh 16:47:32 Hi everyone! 16:47:38 hi! 16:48:02 mumra: ah, thanks. That's one I don't frequent. I'll trust them that this summon cap idea is really bad, definitely worse than MD removal. 16:48:41 dpeg's gone soft! tell the presses! 16:48:51 dpeg: me neither, was only looking because lightli mentioned it 16:48:55 elliott: sarcasm alert 16:49:00 dpeg: ditto 16:49:10 qoala: try to get elliptic's opinion on this one (seriously) 16:49:19 dpeg: but of course, why _wouldn't_ we treat such a comment with the utmost seriousness? 16:49:28 here it is 16:49:37 "Important design rule: If they scream, we got it right." 16:49:42 https://boards.4chan.org/vg/res/39674579 16:49:48 thx 16:49:50 mumra: you probably don't want me to answer that? 16:49:56 it's not all crawl, but a good chunk of it is 16:50:42 SamB: why, are you going to side with them? ;) 16:50:58 <|amethyst> "Summoning is cancer. Next they should nerf Fire/Ice Storm" 16:51:03 sometimes you wonder if you really *want* those people to play your game :) 16:51:32 mumra: no I was going to mention how dpeg's stance on MD removal made the sarcasm obvious 16:51:34 lol 16:51:38 "Summoning is now the worst school in the game" 16:51:45 i liked the first comment 16:51:56 or the first one i saw anyway 16:52:05 pretty much sums up 4chan 16:52:17 SamB: and i hope my sarcasm was obvious considering i pushed the changes ... 16:52:50 also "How am I supposed to win if I can't just drop an army of dragons on everything that moves?" 16:52:53 heh.... 16:52:59 mumra: yeah that's why I said you probably didn't want me to answer that 16:53:13 i guess you use melee and two dragons like a cratesummoner 16:53:16 <|amethyst> And a few of the ones not fit to copy-paste here are suitably vehement 16:53:23 * dpeg always hopes those chaps are clueless teenagers 16:53:40 <|amethyst> dpeg: it's 4chan so probably 16:53:49 there are actually some reasonable comments in there that understand the changes too 16:53:52 <|amethyst> dpeg: or people who wish they still were teenagers 16:53:54 On the bright side, they like newskald 16:54:03 some of them might just be nostalgic for when they were clueless teenagers 16:54:24 oh |amethyst already said that, darn 16:54:28 <|amethyst> "Everyone used to tolerate my behaviour, what happened?" 16:54:29 Lightli: well, they'll cherish new stuff, and hate all nerfs. They have a long way to go until transcendence. 16:54:47 some of them hated new vehumet because it nerfed summoners 16:54:54 dpeg, while you're around, check your !messages (we were having a discussion the other day about getting Medar a +, and figuring out who could hand those out, and if we needed someone else who could do that). 16:54:58 (they were hoping you'd grow out of it?) 16:55:28 !messages 16:55:49 Grunt: can't! 16:55:52 :( 16:55:56 * Grunt kicks henzell. 16:56:13 (1/2) Grunt said (1d 17h 49m 10s ago): /msg chanserv access ##crawl-dev add Medar committer 16:56:16 henzell is a gay bot nerfing summoning all the time! 16:56:35 That got its attention :b 16:56:49 henzell can't be summoned anymore due to the summon nerf 16:56:58 \o/ 16:57:02 Medar: :) 16:57:05 !messages 16:57:06 (1/1) Grunt said (1d 17h 50m 8s ago): There's also speculation about getting someone else the access to be able to do that, but we can discuss that when you actually read this :) 16:57:08 Yey :) 16:57:18 Grunt: who is it, who is it? 16:57:31 I don't know if we ever figured out who "someone else" was. 16:57:38 i volunteer! 16:57:38 I nominated kilobyte 16:57:43 clearly me 16:57:52 *not me 16:58:30 I think someone might have also nominated MarvinPA ? 16:59:39 Any dev who regularly visits ##crawl-dev would be a good choice. 16:59:55 well they qualify then 16:59:57 IRC experience would be a good thing. <_< 17:00:11 true 17:00:21 did anyone nominate |amethyst? 17:00:27 (as in, being able to figure out all the arcane chanserv invocations) 17:01:02 or able to write down the chanserv invocations needed 17:01:26 Being able to write them down presupposes you can figure them out to begin with :) 17:01:28 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:47 <|amethyst> the invocation for new committers is in ../docs/develop/new_dev_checklist.txt 17:02:00 <|amethyst> I don't know freenode's system very well 17:02:16 <|amethyst> I guess I can /msg chanserv help 17:02:28 * Zannick almost tried to open ../docs/develop/new_dev_checklist.txt in a browsr 17:02:30 -!- datgum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:31 browser 17:02:37 as far as i understand it you just need +f in order to be able to add committers 17:02:37 hehehehe 17:02:54 |amethyst: so you live in the source/ directory eh? 17:03:07 Technically, it doesn't just have to be one person who gets that access. 17:03:11 <|amethyst> SamB: yes 17:03:17 Grunt: I know 17:03:20 * kilobyte sees SamB unreleasing a new gdb version. 17:03:23 (Just an observation. <_<) 17:03:31 kilobyte: I didn't upload it! 17:03:34 <|amethyst> SamB: I have a keybinding set up to open a terminal in that directory 17:03:55 % who-uploads gdb 17:03:55 Uploads for gdb: 17:03:55 7.6-4 to unstable: Hector Oron Martinez (debian) 17:04:16 well, it bears your name in the changelog 17:04:53 I was expecting zumbi to change the UNRELEASED to something else before doing an upload 17:04:54 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:06:25 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:06:27 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 17:07:20 I on the other hand screwed up versioning on iproute2, but the changelog got replaced by the maintainer 17:07:53 also, ECHAN, sorry 17:10:37 xv lies about ghost MR by reid 17:12:54 -!- wolfram_ has quit [K-Lined] 17:12:54 -!- Sky2 has quit [K-Lined] 17:12:54 -!- Kellhus has quit [K-Lined] 17:12:54 -!- WildSam has quit [K-Lined] 17:12:54 -!- Roarke has quit [K-Lined] 17:12:54 -!- Lightli has quit [K-Lined] 17:12:54 -!- Datul_ has quit [K-Lined] 17:12:55 -!- Palyth_ has quit [K-Lined] 17:12:55 -!- ParallaxScroll has quit [K-Lined] 17:13:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:14:27 -!- pantaril has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:16 "Original Spammals: Up to four at max power, including green and orange rats. Not impossible to beat the game with it" 17:19:22 heh...i remember one time i decided to repeatedly cast canine familiar at max spell power just to see if it would happen to give me a hellhound 17:21:28 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:24:04 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:34 hmm ... would occasional hellhounds at high power be more reasonable with the cap in place 17:27:01 What would good god followers get <_< 17:27:02 probably not really 17:27:12 qoala: i think the servers are updated with your new patches already 17:27:33 holy hounds 17:27:50 divine canine 17:27:53 oh, I thought I looked at the commit logs and didn't see them. I probably just missed them. 17:28:27 if we missed one, go ahead and give a holler 17:28:52 MDvedh (L24 MiBe) ASSERT(!aimed_at_feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 665 failed. (D:27) 17:29:07 this one again? 17:29:14 I thought that was fixed ... 17:29:21 !lm mdvedh crash -log 17:29:22 1. MDvedh, XL24 MiBe, T:55276 (milestone): http://rl.heh.fi/morgue/MDvedh/crash-MDvedh-20130626-222851.txt 17:29:33 puissant pooches? 17:29:41 I'm looking at the changelog on cszo, and it stops at 1fea7b8. Is that not automatically updated when the server rebuilds? 17:29:56 divine daschund 17:30:06 dachshund? 17:30:09 however you spell it 17:30:10 qoala: no, that's written by humans 17:30:19 we can easily miss any and everything 17:30:29 ??git 17:30:30 %git 4cc4775752 17:30:30 07qoala * 0.13-a0-2095-g4cc4775: Leash Spectral Weapon to a range of 2, let it attack retreating targets. 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 11+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4cc477575262 17:30:31 well, it's called 'changelog', but it looks like an autogenerated git log 17:30:36 git[1/2]: Readonly: git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git Read/Write: git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl.git Web interface: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git or http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 17:30:39 qoala: hmm? 17:30:53 On the server, select trunk play, then 'v' or 'V' 17:31:07 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:31:20 <|amethyst> %git 1fea7b8 17:31:20 07mumra * 0.13-a0-2090-g1fea7b8: Revert "Fix previously broken but moot polymorph validity check for M_UNIQUE" 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1fea7b84a67c 17:31:27 I've always assumed this was the git log up to where the server currently rebuilt. 17:31:30 <|amethyst> has the server been updated since then? 17:31:49 possibly not 17:31:58 no 17:32:12 This is Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 0.13-a0-2090-g1fea7b8 17:32:15 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 17:32:26 ??rebuild 17:32:27 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ Bug kilobyte or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 17:32:37 what happened to adding more ? 17:32:52 <|amethyst> joosa needs to know who to make an admin 17:32:59 <|amethyst> and I don't think TZer0 has gotten it working get 17:33:24 mind you, I don't have an account on any of the new servers anyway 17:34:24 <|amethyst> re that wind drake crash, I can't figure it out 17:34:45 SamB: a few more people have access to CDO, but they're all inactive 17:35:05 SamB: and it needs shell access, so Nap King is reluctant to add more 17:35:22 <|amethyst> we explicitly decline to consider a target at the same position as the agent 17:36:11 <|amethyst> oh, I guess it could be in the else //Try to find an alternate route to push 17:37:08 -!- test32423 has quit [Client Quit] 17:37:12 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:50 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:46:53 lison (L23 HOFi) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 701) (D:22) 17:46:55 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:47:31 !lm lison crash -log 17:47:32 1. lison, XL23 HOFi, T:52953 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/lison/crash-lison-20130626-224653.txt 17:48:18 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:31 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:36 -!- psuedo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:18 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:22 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:29 what would a level 9 charms do 17:55:37 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:37 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:53 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:56:57 Haste Storm 17:57:18 Mass Haste 17:57:22 (hastes all allies) 17:58:52 Haste 17:59:13 heal wounds 17:59:35 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:00:35 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:15 MarvinPA: +1 18:01:30 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:02:47 <|amethyst> hm, wonder if gdb will shed any more light on that 18:05:05 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:06:44 <|amethyst> monster_die(mon, 18:06:44 <|amethyst> caster->is_player() ? KILL_YOU 18:06:44 <|amethyst> : KILL_MON, 18:06:44 <|amethyst> NON_MONSTER); 18:08:15 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 18:08:55 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:11:13 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:11:59 -!- hwlihn_ has quit [Client Quit] 18:12:53 -!- Eldarby has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:16:01 (random idea: scale haste's hastiness with spell power / evo / something) 18:16:29 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:33 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:21:05 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:25:36 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:27:53 -!- psuedo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:37 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:30:14 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:10 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2107-g8f3e77d: Let monster_die take a const killer. 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8f3e77d901fa 18:31:10 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2108-g1baffba: Don't crash when a monster instakills another with LRD. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1baffba3f774 18:31:11 <|amethyst> I need to figure out a good way to make the core files accessible to devs 18:31:55 <|amethyst> the problem is, while they have the date in the name, it's not necessarily exactly the same date as indicated in the milestone (could be off by a second or more) 18:32:31 <|amethyst> and I guess the core isn't useful without also having the exact binary 18:35:08 -!- WildSam has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:35:18 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:28 oops. Should Vehumet gift Spectral Weapon? 18:37:40 <|amethyst> hm 18:37:57 <|amethyst> on the one hand, it really has little to do with what Veh is about 18:38:07 <|amethyst> on the other, it would be the only Conj spell Veh doesn't support 18:40:22 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:40:26 ??spectral weapon 18:40:27 spectral weapon[1/1]: Creates an allied spectral clone of your wielded weapon, which strikes enemies in melee when you do. Damage it takes is shared with you. Its offensive stats scale with your weapon skill, and its defenses scale with spell power. 18:40:53 That feels weird being a conjuration. 18:41:03 it doesn't seem like it should be conj at all, yeah 18:41:23 It makes sense for Battlesphere; not so much here. 18:41:51 charm/summon? 18:41:55 treat it as an illusion? 18:42:30 its theme is stuff about the spirit of your weapon, could be charm/hex like sure blade 18:42:45 or charm/necro 18:42:54 piggy backs on regen that way 18:43:09 <|amethyst> wouldn't want to discourage Sk from good gods too much 18:43:13 true 18:43:14 well i don't think weapons were ever living things 18:43:18 also true 18:43:25 MarvinPA: you should see my kitchen knife! 18:43:29 <|amethyst> hexes or summons sound good 18:43:33 *most* weapons 18:43:38 <|amethyst> s/ons/oning/ 18:44:02 got to go, but I agree that Conj should be replaced 18:44:02 -!- wheals has quit [Client Quit] 18:44:04 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleeep] 18:47:17 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:48:30 -!- Vbitz has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:50:19 -!- GRAVITATION has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:52:06 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:53:26 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:22 -!- Poncheis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:13 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 19:00:23 Grunt: why would haste scale with evo? 19:00:40 Wand. 19:00:43 Grunt: (i'm sure haste scaling has been discussed before and there are good reasons not to do) 19:00:50 s/do/do it/ 19:00:59 it was discussed for the previous nerf, yeah 19:01:21 Grunt: oh yeah, i'm dumb 19:01:25 i forget why it wasn't done but i think just mainly excess complexity 19:02:02 does the duration scale with evo for the wand? 19:02:23 oh hey it's even still on the wiki 19:02:27 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:effect:haste_nerf#haste 19:02:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:02:46 -!- Nikolaos has quit [] 19:03:11 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 19:03:28 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:04:12 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:05:33 "unless we implement new spells (like proposed Possess Demon or Illusory Decoy)" 19:05:40 i'm not sure i've ever seen those proposals 19:05:53 both on the wiki! 19:06:50 i think they had their own pages for a while but now there's just a huge list of hex suggestions 19:08:30 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:55 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2109-g08e2697: Allow vampires to Cure Poison whenever they have blood (#7261). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=08e269702798 19:11:02 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 19:14:23 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:16:06 -!- ChrisOelmueller has joined ##crawl-dev 19:16:28 hi i'm apparently spamming ##crawl so i want to spam here instead 19:16:31 !learn del badforum[90] 19:16:32 Deleted badforum[90/96]: - You're a wizard, that means you don't get involved in fistfights or primitive melees with pointy things. That is for peasants with no class. If you ignore this you deserve to die, which you likely will. 19:16:32 !learn del badforum[90] 19:16:33 Deleted badforum[90/95]: Almost never have I seen anything remotely threatening in damage coming from Darts or Stones outside of the Early Game, and I would rather take a Orc Warlord throwing Stones at my Squishy Caster with Repel Missiles at range while I cast Poison Arrow or Bolt of Fire with glee at him. 19:16:34 !learn del badforum[90] 19:16:34 Deleted badforum[90/94]: Crossbows are different from Bows and Slings in that you can load them and it will be ready to fire when you need it to be; Bows and Slings however don't stay loaded and always require a setup phase before firing. In terms of Crawl, the purpose of Reloading would be that you could fire your Loaded Crossbow instantly. 19:16:35 !learn del badforum[90] 19:16:35 Deleted badforum[90/93]: But haste make you hungry. 19:16:36 !learn del badforum[90] 19:16:37 Deleted badforum[90/92]: resist mutation almost a must for most characters if you want to win. 19:16:38 !learn del badforum[90] 19:16:38 Deleted badforum[90/91]: i'm pretty sure you can't win as long as any enemy is in your LOS so if you end up being followed to the exit you have to deal with the panlord a way or another. 19:16:41 !learn del badforum[90] 19:16:41 Deleted badforum[90/90]: (Achievements) Overachever: Do a 15 rune game. I wanna be the guy!: Do a 15 rune game as a halfling fighter. 19:16:43 !learn del badforum[90] 19:16:43 badforum has only 89 entries. 19:16:48 !learn del badforum[80] 19:16:48 Deleted badforum[80/89]: Logunu, to me, is the "Early blink in heavy Armour" god. 19:16:49 !learn del badforum[80] 19:16:50 Deleted badforum[80/88]: Emos is the diety of self loathing. He likes it when you take damage, cast Pain (and related spells), drink detrimental potions, read scrolls of immolation, etc. He dislikes it when you use any heal potions, wands, or regeneration spells. Emos refuses to accept worship from beings that cannot feel pain. 19:16:50 !learn del badforum[80] 19:16:51 Deleted badforum[80/87]: Still it would be stupid to use GSC (even with Maces&Flails 22+ and Fighting 27) vs low HP targets. I think we do not have any disagreements in the latest part of the thread since everyone understands how melee fighting works... 19:16:52 !learn del badforum[80] 19:16:52 Deleted badforum[80/86]: The AK had a much easier time due to the big SH value that defended him, while the AM's Vampiric Giant Club could only restore so much health. 19:16:53 !learn del badforum[80] 19:16:54 Deleted badforum[80/85]: Lichform allows to almost ignore Int 19:16:55 !learn del badforum[80] 19:16:56 Deleted badforum[80/84]: Anit-Cheribdos Diety - Like the killing of slower creatures, promotes the use of quickblades, branded speed weapons, and boots of running. Dislikes the use of any slowing rods/spells on anything, amulets of stasis, use of ponderous equipment, and resting (lose 1 piety every 25 turns while resting). 19:16:57 !learn del badforum[80] 19:16:59 !learn del badforum[80] 19:16:59 Deleted badforum[80/83]: I propose monsters that can cast spells drop their spellbooks. Said spell books would contain all the spells the monster can cast. (Possibly minus monster only spells, although I think that allowing the player to get his hands on them this way would be acceptable.) This would clear up the problem of spell book rarity. 19:16:59 Deleted badforum[80/82]: it rather seems to be that the hardest core of players is already bored from streaking and puts the impossible races towards the end (hello Mummies, Humans and Demigods) 19:17:01 !learn del badforum[80] 19:17:01 Deleted badforum[80/81]: MONS: big kobold name:Jibjub name_replace MONS: kobold name:Nitkik name_replace MONS: big kobold name:Kiblib name_replace 19:17:03 !learn del badforum[80] 19:17:03 Deleted badforum[80/80]: HP is irrelevant for non-lich and non-undead character. After 4 torments you will have to use Death's Door/Born's Revivication no matter if you are an Ogre or Felid because 80HP difference is 5HP difference now (80/16). 19:17:04 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:13 okay that's it for now, bye 19:17:14 -!- ChrisOelmueller has left ##crawl-dev 19:17:47 so expect the rest of it to be gone when he thinks everyone else is asleep or something? 19:18:05 -!- Rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 19:18:41 geekosaur: hes says he put it in his github 19:18:43 -!- pelotron_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:19:21 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:04 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: granted, we weren't currently saying anything 19:20:07 <|amethyst> doh 19:21:53 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:22:11 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 19:25:01 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:09 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:02 <|amethyst> !tell bh any clue about #7238? it seems to be related to WorleyLayout, see https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=4775&type=bug 19:27:03 |amethyst: OK, I'll let bh know. 19:28:37 -!- Silvaris has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:31:54 about #7238, are you able to reproduce it? I ran some tests on a different distro of x64 linux and wasn't able to get it. Unless somehow my input script was somehow preventing the generation ofthe crash report. 19:35:25 Ridiculous patch of the moment: http://sprunge.us/ghYW 19:35:41 <|amethyst> qoala: I have not been able to, no 19:37:19 Grunt: >.> 19:37:23 Grunt: what. 19:37:34 Wouldn't merging Jellies be weird in the Slime Pits, where the large open space works against it? 19:37:44 Found Kurismeg's Gadget Shop. 19:37:46 Titanic acid blob: do not want 19:37:50 is that new? 19:38:00 ooze is kind of silly, too 19:38:00 ProzcElf: Yes 19:38:07 cool 19:38:14 maybe i'll buy me a sack o' spiders 19:38:17 merging everything in slime:6 would be brutal 19:38:17 <|amethyst> doesn't that make slime creatures kind of boring? 19:38:21 would the titanic acid blob's spit actually scale, though? 19:38:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:25 Zannick, reaver: I don't intend for this to be taken seriously in the slightest :) 19:38:48 i started reading that hoping there was an interesting new mergeable monster you were adding :P 19:38:52 oops, i meant to ask that/make commentary in the other channel. sorry =) 19:38:57 then it turned out to just be J 19:39:14 <|amethyst> make TRJ mergeable 19:39:15 <|amethyst> with other TRJs 19:39:20 make orb of eyes mergeable 19:39:22 |amethyst: other TRJs? :b 19:39:31 Zannick: greater orb of eyes, greatest orb of eyes, ...? 19:39:32 <|amethyst> Grunt: sure, chaos cloning 19:39:46 <|amethyst> (does that work on uniques?) 19:39:51 greater large orb of eyes 19:39:52 I don't think it does. 19:39:55 there's an is_clonable check 19:39:59 or something like that 19:40:21 merging TRJs would make for entertaining !fights 19:40:27 fr: TRJ is clonable and can merge 19:40:31 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:40:32 1fight 99 titanic royal jelly v ... 19:40:54 <|amethyst> and gains one size unit if it eats a royal jelly (the food) 19:41:16 <|amethyst> or, instead of making TRJ spawn lesser slimes when hit... 19:41:52 <|amethyst> You split the royal jelly like a flan! 19:42:09 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:42:10 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:28 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 19:44:05 Grunt: Wouldn't it be good to push anyway that after making mons_is_mergeable() just return slime creatures, so the code would be future proofed against future merging monsters? (I don't know if this is good or bad programming practice) 19:44:24 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 19:44:30 Meh. 19:47:06 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:01 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:48:55 pertaining to earlier discussion.... 19:49:00 vehumet just offered me spectral weapon 19:49:06 yeah. 19:49:26 I got an IM from a friend about it, prior to starting the discussion. 19:50:09 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:50:17 ah 19:50:28 It's not abjurable (and probably shouldn't be), so I'm tentatively against summonings. 19:50:40 then you obviously already knew =) 19:51:40 on an unrelated note, if it has the chaos brand, can it shaft itself? 19:52:13 It's levitating 19:52:18 so, hopefully no? 19:52:33 heh. good point. i hadn't considered that. 19:52:35 telekinesis 19:52:42 ??dancing weapons 19:52:43 I don't have a page labeled dancing_weapons in my learndb. 19:52:44 ??dancing weapon 19:52:45 dancing weapon[1/1]: When randomly spawned, is one of battleaxe, broad axe, flail, glaive, great mace, halberd, hand axe, long sword, morningstar, scimitar, short sword, spiked flail, trident, war axe. Hall of Blades spawns will almost always have egos. %?? dancing weapon ; (weapon) to see the stats; nearly all have good speed, ac, ev, and omni-resistances. 19:53:01 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:51 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2110-gb3842a7: Make Spectral Weapon Charms/Hexes, not Conj. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b3842a73606d 19:54:51 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2111-g27446da: Make spell list indentation more consistent. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 36+ 36-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=27446dabdf37 19:55:00 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:55:56 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:13 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 19:56:13 -!- gammafunk_ is now known as gammafunk 19:56:19 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 19:57:18 I guess I never got around to bringing it up in here, but should spectral weapon get the same immunity to allied beams that battesphere gets? They're both more an extension of the caster than a separate creature. 19:58:07 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:58:35 -!- Epsik has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:00:33 there was someone on #crawl who was disappointed that if a target blinked behind the spectral weapon, he couldn't poison-spit at it. 20:00:34 i'd say yes, but it's much less an issue if it doesn't 20:01:33 yeah, not a big problem since you generally aren't doing ranged attacks with a spectral weapon out, but could be occasionally annoying. 20:02:25 sure. and i can see the rationale behind making it immune too 20:03:38 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:49 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:37 -!- ophanim has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:04:50 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 20:07:15 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:01 -!- Roshnak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:08:45 elliptic 20:09:08 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:17 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:57 oops, that was meant to be typed into the search box, but if you're there, I was curious how important you thought 4 flat bonus damage on attacks was late game. 20:11:40 it should be pretty good, since it's basically equivalent to +0,+8 slaying 20:11:49 and that's a very high-quality ring to wear 20:12:02 ah, that makes sense. 20:12:35 Perhaps infusion should roll on attack, rather than be a flat increase? 20:12:55 I don't know how infusion currently works 20:12:57 ??infusion 20:12:57 infusion[1/1]: New skald spell which buffs your melee damage at the cost of MP with every hit. 20:13:00 That'd be more in line with other bonuses 20:13:21 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:13:46 yeah, that would probably be a bit better 20:13:47 So every time you hit a target and have mp > 0, --mp, add 2 + div_rand_round(pow,25) to actual damage. With power up to 50 20:14:21 and I initially thought up to 4 was kind of small. But when thought of in terms of slaying, it is really good. 20:15:09 Essentially late game melee characters seem to have infusion as a no-brainer, since they generally have enough mp to waste. 20:16:39 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:19:44 It's nice that it's a big bonus early on, as it's what helps the level 1 skald get far enough to learn bigger spells. Having it rolled wider than div_rand_round, would give us a finer gradation than +2 effective slaying for each point. 20:19:56 -!- dcss74220 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:51 -!- knaveightt has quit [Quit: Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.] 20:22:19 even a +0,+4 slaying ring for 1mp each attack is probably still worth it late game though, yes? 20:23:15 I guess the problem is that unlike most 1st level spells, it doesn't have an opportunity cost for actions 20:23:44 the big bonus is what makes it nice for skalds though 20:23:44 it could just be not level 1 like crate suggested 20:24:44 yeah, that's a possibility. But then the skald would go back to being "the magic start that doesn't start with a spell" 20:24:48 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 20:25:46 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:47 unless we found another new spell to fit that role. 20:26:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:26:03 if its duration didn't scale well it would be worse for late-game characters 20:26:14 since it wouldn't be worth the turns recasting it 20:26:20 we could make translocutors also not start with a spell 20:27:34 nerfing the duration also hurts early characters too, though not as much. I've often drained all my mp in early fights, and either keep fighting or kite until 1mp regens for another attack. 20:27:53 infusion would be a lot easier to balance at a higher level, but i really, really want skalds to have a level 1 spell that isn't boring like beastly appendage or w/e 20:28:20 alternately: the boonus from infusion checks ac separately from the actual hit 20:28:23 -!- vanhal has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:28:24 bonus* 20:28:44 wouldn't matter at all against early stuff whichc has no ac 20:28:53 but against a stone giant it'll do nothing 20:28:55 It could take more than 1 mp, if your max mp is high. But maybe that's weird. 20:29:00 hmm... so then we'd make infusion bonus damage scale fairly well? 20:29:05 I have a few thoughts on it, one is to use a separate AC check. Also, make the bonus scale a lot with power, have a large power cap, and be pretty lousy at low power 20:29:14 right now the cap is 50, which is too low 20:29:29 well, it ought to be good for low level characters at low power 20:29:31 50 is fine for a level 1 spell 20:29:43 high, even 20:29:52 It's just that if it checks AC separately, it'd be nice if it was still useful against yaks. 20:30:00 yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 27-54 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 205 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 20:30:00 %??yak 20:30:14 Summon Spectral Weapon wrong tile by Arrhythmia 20:30:53 you'll probably have max infusion power by at least mid-lair (since you're splitting skills between weapon and charms) 20:31:16 but if it becomes +0,+4 slaying instead of +4 flat damage, that's not a lot of benefit versus a yak. 20:31:26 (when checking AC separately) 20:31:37 level 1 spells don't need to be good against yaks 20:32:05 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:31 Song of Slaying needs you to be able to kill the first few yaks without it. Though spectral weapon might be enough to fit that requirement. Particularly if it gets buffed. 20:32:49 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 20:33:00 I don't think yaks are a problem 20:33:23 -!- gammafunk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:28 I may also be pulling my example monsters poorly. 20:35:33 ??slaying 20:35:34 slaying[1/3]: A slaying bonus is stated in the same format as weapon enchantments: bonus to accuracy, then bonus to damage. Only affects melee and ranged combat; magic will not become more powerful nor more accurate from any kind of slaying bonus. Now works like weapon enchantment. 20:35:44 ??slaying[2] 20:35:44 slaying[2/3]: A ring of slaying cannot boost accuracy more than +7, and it cannot boost damage more than +7 unless the accuracy boost is +0. Thus the best possible rings of slaying are (+0, +9) and (+7,+7). 20:35:46 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:10 ??slaying[3] 20:36:10 slaying[3/3]: roughly +3 to-dam is +2 base damage for onehanders and +2 to-dam is +1 base damage for 2handers 20:36:39 I've frequently been thinking of infusion as the starter bonus to get a song of slaying going. Though it's too strong for that, and I'm probably expecting something that doesn't need to be. 20:37:29 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-2112-g21574ff: Display spectral sacred scourges correctly. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=21574ffe55de 20:37:32 sos was supposed to just have a duration long enough that the bonus is usable 20:37:33 I suppose if that were the goal, though then short duration would be the way to go. I'm interested to see how separate AC-checks might play out though 20:37:34 well, i just compare it in my mind to magic dart; it sucks killing yaks with that too 20:39:27 separate AC check will probably do what we want were it becomes not-worth-it as monsters get harder. 20:40:01 Tweaking how much damage it actually does at max power can just be used to balance when that happens. 20:40:04 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 20:40:09 also about spectral weapon, its definitely not supposed to be a summon, doesn't fit the theme at all 20:40:27 I think we made it charm/hexes, to stop Vehumet gifting it. 20:40:49 summons can act on their own, and are actually summoned, but this spell creates something from nothing and mirrors your behaviour 20:40:52 yes 20:40:54 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:55 charm/hex could be fine 20:41:18 charm/tmut :Y 20:41:44 Conjuration did kind of fit flavourwise (by docs/develop/spells.txt), except that Veh is also a strong part of conjuration flavour. 20:42:33 -!- elliott has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:23 it's too bad vehumet is a reason for that change, I think if revears are ever reimplemented, this will be an issue for the conj+melee playstyle, assuming it has spells that fill that role 20:43:41 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 20:44:14 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:20 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:31 -!- BallisticBison has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:44:40 Veh could still reasonably be expected to gift and support melee spells of destruction. Just not improve their range like sticky flame. 20:45:08 ah, a big idea of reavers is ranged spells actually 20:45:31 I was just thinking that they could have spells that somehow compliment melee (no ideas, sorry) 20:46:09 -!- elliott_1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:46:34 ah, still veh seems more about helping spells that directly do damage. It's just that spectral weapon's damage isn't really tied to casting otherwise destructive spells. 20:47:01 -!- elliott_1 is now known as elliott 20:47:12 oh, yeah that makes sense, at only level 3 his wizardry isn't much of a factor 20:47:13 -!- reaver has quit [] 20:48:08 the funnier part was that conjurations-focused veh worshippers were getting randomly gifted spectral weapon. 20:48:22 <-- 20:48:25 =D 20:49:13 what is maybe_random_div for? 20:49:49 with SoS, i'm thinking that threat_level is a somewhat coarse scale and produces some weird cutoffs at magic xp values 20:50:21 it was only previously used/designed as a UI indicator 20:50:40 that's probably true. Also it ought to scale differently. 20:51:02 Would something more like oka's piety gain feel better? 20:51:10 something a bit more fluid would be: take some ratio of monster's xp to your total xp points (this is basically what threat_level is doing); then use that ratio to calculate a probability for whether you get the bonus on that kill 20:51:35 -!- Silvaris has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:51:39 that's better than just using threat level 20:51:40 so popcorn enemies could still _very occasionally_ give a bonus but it's not like it's worth dragging them around for that purpose 20:51:45 right 20:51:47 and doesn't have hard cutoffs 20:51:49 yeah 20:52:02 Sounds like a good strategy. 20:52:05 I think if dragging enemies around is a problem, you should only get the bonus if you kill said enemy within n turns of discovering it 20:52:16 i don't think dragging enemies around is a concern really 20:52:27 so, say you discovered that orc 20 turns ago, it's not going to give you a slaying bonus 20:52:28 it's a huge waste of turns for highly questionable benefit 20:52:57 especially if those enemies have only say 1/10 chance of even giving a bonus ... 20:53:02 -!- Undo has quit [] 20:53:03 well, if it needs to be fixed, I think that's a way of fixing it 20:53:04 But it'd be nice if I retreat from the orc entrance early on, but still be able to get slaying when I later return to kill it. 20:53:29 I'm not sure anyone is currently dragging monsters around for the song bonus. 20:53:57 maybe the timer could only count down when enemies are in view. this is starting to sound like it would be a pain i nthe ass to make work though 20:54:07 i think the xp ratio would be easier to balance than threat level, and in fact it could be tuned to get much less useful lategame 20:54:24 yeah I like the xp ratio idea. 20:54:26 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:31 i don't really like the timer, it probably isn't necessary 20:54:39 for a "melee-supporting" spell, how about one which drags enemies towards you when you zap them with it 20:54:44 threat level just shouldnt be used for anything that isn't interface-related 20:54:46 so, anti-force lance 20:54:56 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 20:55:36 I'm looking at the player ghost code, and am surprised that skill with the weapon only seems to give a bonus of up to around +1 damage at 27 skill. 20:55:37 "blink other closer" 20:55:47 s/other/others/ 20:55:58 (in terms of adding skill scaling to spectral weapon damage) 20:56:38 ontoclasm: it's maybe not a terribly good spell, since you can usually get enemies to come close to you for free by stepping around a corner and waiting ... 20:57:44 i didn't mean you use it as your standarad gap-closing thing, but rather to rip, say, an orc priest out from behind his buddies 20:57:56 oh i see 20:57:59 that'd be pretty interesting actually 20:58:20 i'd use it 20:58:20 so targetting individual enemies 20:58:28 yeah, one target only 20:59:00 basically this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C3poU_0sK4 20:59:11 qoala: that does sound odd about player ghosts, what file/line is that at? 20:59:27 ghost.cc:408 20:59:44 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:59:53 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:10 oh wait I can't read 21:00:15 ugh, that's a horrible calculation :) 21:00:44 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 21:00:56 {damage *= 25 + skill; damage /= 25} != {damage = (damage * 25 + skill) / 25} 21:01:05 qoala: yeah it's multiplying it by up to 2 or something 21:01:24 which is about right if ??weapon_damage is correct 21:03:35 though I have no idea how weapon damage is actually distributed for intermediate skill. 21:04:00 -!- ahahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:05:06 actually melee_attack::player_apply_weapon_skill uses an almost identical calculation 21:05:51 so a similar calculation to init_player_ghost will at least make spectral weapon's hypothetical damage scaling work like other damage effects based on weapon skill. 21:05:56 Though it should scale worse 21:05:59 it shouldn't attempt to match your weapon damage 1:1 anyway, so the formula for sos damage would be fine if it is slightly lower than your real attacks (I still think it might be cool if the ratio depends on spellpower) 21:06:18 yeah, don't want to actually be dual wielding 21:06:51 so damage depends on *both* weapon and spell skills? 21:07:27 I'm not sure if that would be complicated to explain to people, and late game characters will have piles of both anyways. 21:07:47 gloom by reid 21:07:47 Though I guess, it'd be another incentive to actually hit 100 charms power, which is goood. 21:07:48 *good 21:08:01 yeah it might be needless complexity, I'm not fully sure 21:08:13 what a meaningful mantis report, that 7272 21:08:22 its likely a patch to remove it 21:08:34 it is not 21:09:02 ...you expect Mantis submitters to actually do work? 21:09:23 It has 2 words, between the title and description, and all other content. It's exemplary in how little work it took. 21:09:32 I just like it to depend on weapon skill (because it's innately tied to your melee attacks), and like it to use charms skill too, because I think charms spells don't care enough about power (you just get haste usable and ignore it) 21:09:42 so it's cool if spells encourage you to raise it past that point, imo 21:10:26 yeah, we could make it depend on both. It will just require coming up with a whole new formula >.> 21:10:45 -!- rwbarton has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:11:02 So with no weapon skill, it should always give just the base damage (like ghost code) 21:11:41 with full spell power, skill should scale like normal, but maybe be ~1/2 as effective? maybe more? 21:12:34 So I guess, the ghost formula, but the scale for the mult and div goes from horrible to okay, depending on spell power. 21:12:35 Maybe 1/2 is low, I'm not sure how it all plays out. What I'd suggest is to make that part of the formula easy to tune 21:12:56 yeah, the scale will be calculated first, and we can tweak what it looks like. 21:12:58 and then you don't have to worry about balance on the first pass. It's safe to aim a bit high even, and then you know how much to nerf it 21:14:54 -!- the_glow1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:15:08 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 21:15:49 apparently chimera, wyverns, sphynxes, griffons, and manticores should all be D: http://yafgc.net/?id=1601 21:20:12 -!- dcss46204 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:09 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:28:30 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:42 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:31:37 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:03 -!- lasserith has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:33:54 -!- the_glow has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:24 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:25 -!- Wolfram_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:39:38 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:05 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2112-g21574ff 21:46:59 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:48:56 -!- purge_ has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:00 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:45 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:56 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:06:12 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:10:39 -!- Ahrin has quit [] 22:11:06 -!- Voker57 has quit [] 22:15:10 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:21:40 Sky2 (L6 GrHe) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 701) (D:4) 22:25:13 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:35 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:16 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:31:11 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 22:33:35 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2113-gf055fc9: RANDOM_SAME_GENUS polymorph fixes. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f055fc93129b 22:33:54 * Grunt looks around for bh... 22:35:29 <|amethyst> mumra: apparently you're planning on reverting the summoning cap? http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/1h4trh/dcsswhisper_farewell_when_you_leave_summonings/caquw0o 22:35:57 haha what? 22:36:11 <|amethyst> "According to in-game version features (?v), this is "temporary"...presumably as a test. Offer persuasive counterarguments and perhaps it won't go away?" 22:36:21 oh lol 22:36:25 <|amethyst> ooh, I can't wait for the persuasive counterarguments 22:36:27 it's because of the changelog entry 22:36:28 The orc high priest mumbles some strange prayers to NO GOD against you. 22:36:37 ...clearly there are still bugs left to work out >_> 22:36:42 "Temporary summons nerfs:" 22:36:47 |amethyst: counterargument: They seem very determined to remove every single thing that made the game good in the first place. 22:36:54 should be "Nerfs to temporary summons:" 22:36:55 mumra: lol 22:37:05 btw, gloom bug doesn't seem to be fixed yet??? 22:37:42 <|amethyst> elliott: I think "SUMMONING IS DEAD FUCK YOU GAY CRAWL DEVS" is much more persuasive 22:38:40 <|amethyst> And "nerfing shit in a single player game / cannot get more retarded than this" 22:38:47 is this 4chan 22:38:48 <|amethyst> (both from the 4chan thread) 22:39:03 only gay devs are allowed to nerf things, crawl rules 22:39:48 <|amethyst> elliott: oh, I thought they were offering to use their sexual prowess to "fuck us gay" 22:40:29 <|amethyst> anyway, why am I looking at 4chan again 22:40:36 <|amethyst> I could be huffing paint instead 22:40:44 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:04 could be removing gloom 22:41:23 <|amethyst> Also, someone pointed out something very strange: ping times and packet loss to crawl.s-z.org are significantly worse than to dobrazupa.org 22:41:28 <|amethyst> http://oi44.tinypic.com/wt9mxe.jpg 22:41:47 <|amethyst> I don't know if the ISP is doing traffic shaping on a per-IP-address basis or what 22:42:00 |amethyst: doesn't their sexual prowess consist of posting raw pages of h-doujin 22:42:24 heh 22:42:31 -!- lasserith has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 22:42:54 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2114-g0759d60: Clarify wording of changelog for summons cap 10(53 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0759d6088d64 22:42:56 |amethyst: did you just restructure the "nerfing shit in a single player game" comment as a short poem? 22:43:03 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: :) 22:43:05 see, reddit, we are listening 22:45:41 |amethyst: i wholeheartedly approve 22:45:48 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: my intention was to separate the quoted part from the new part, but that's even better 22:45:56 heh 22:46:38 it's not quite a haiku, but poetic nonetheless 22:48:24 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:48:30 nerfing shit in crawl / fuck you gay stone soup dev team / summoning is dead 22:49:17 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:50:21 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:32 haha 22:50:34 heheheh 22:50:37 ??poetry 22:50:37 poetry[1/14]: My character's skills run the gamut / but not Traps and Doors; I just spam it / Now on hive level 4 / I shall search for the door / search, search, search, search, search, search, search, splash, damn it. 22:50:56 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2115-g0f126f1: Show hp/mp minibars in WebTiles while transformed 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 1+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0f126f1a82a0 22:50:58 !learn add poetry nerfing shit in crawl / fuck you gay stone soup dev team / summoning is dead 22:50:58 poetry[15/15]: nerfing shit in crawl / fuck you gay stone soup dev team / summoning is dead 22:51:19 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:23 a stinging indictment in poem 22:52:17 thanks medar! that always annoyed me 22:52:24 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: later all] 22:52:36 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:29 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:11 -!- RichmanCC has quit [] 23:05:21 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:05:24 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:05:26 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:13:33 -!- knaveightt has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:13:34 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:14:31 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.] 23:15:33 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:18:18 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:09 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2116-g5cefd36: Note Flayed and Engulfed in the logfile 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5cefd3656479 23:22:17 * Grunt ponders what to do with this Discord spell (aka mass frenzy). 23:23:44 Is this intended as something that PLAYER can cast, or a monster? 23:24:01 Xom 23:24:16 (Xom thinks this is hilarious!) 23:24:17 Though in general, I think monster behavior when frenzied is wonky and inconsistant enough that probably it shouldn't be used anywhere else unless it is better 23:24:21 ...except Xom might be okay 23:24:24 Grunt: btw i was playing IA and they have player blindness done pretty much exactly how i thought we should do it 23:24:37 IA? 23:24:41 The branch I have for this also contains adjustments to frenzy behaviour. 23:24:45 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: Grunt made some improvements to frenzy 23:24:47 Oh? 23:24:56 ...in particular, monsters indiscriminately attack anything they see while frenzied. 23:25:08 Well, that does seem more like how you'd expect it to work, so that sounds good 23:25:12 DracoOmega: Intra Arcana 23:25:17 s/Intra/Infra 23:25:20 <|amethyst> I know it was originally my suggestion, but I worry if it would be too powerful 23:26:01 On the plus side, you get no xp for stuff killed that way and they could also potentially turn on you. On the other hand.... 23:26:48 Frenzy kills count (essentially) as confusion kills on the branch at the moment. 23:26:50 The thing is, it's not difficult to ensure that monsters are closer to each other than they are to you 23:27:01 In fact, this is usually the case when you first encounter them 23:27:18 Which probably would make it 'safe' to use on them, if they're going to attack what's near them 23:28:07 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:28:07 DracoOmega, if you want to play with this at some point, http://sprunge.us/QHgK 23:28:34 ... 23:28:55 I must have put an old version of one of those patches in, because I noticed the spell level is wrong <_< 23:29:29 http://sprunge.us/XfUF 23:30:05 I can see it slaughtering draconian bands, for example 23:30:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:30:13 But you can already slaughter them with a level 6 hex, I guess 23:30:35 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:01 It does have the limitations of not working on single targets, or very well on things that are already very close to you 23:32:12 (I mean this as an upside, balance-wise) 23:32:16 -!- blackcustard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:52 The way this is implemented, it also doesn't discriminate between friendlies and enemies (not that we'll necessarily get a lot of cases where high-powered hexers have lots of allies). 23:33:10 Well, a lot of AoE hexes will hit allies, too 23:33:29 What I am pondering now is essentially 'where would you use this that would make it worth training and using'? 23:33:57 The main testing ground I've been using for this is V:$. 23:34:20 There's probably a reasonable number of things there it would have decent odds of working on, I guess 23:34:20 Try bringing a SpEn there (who'll probably be training Hexes for Invisibility anyway) and introduce the welcoming party to it. 23:34:45 I would be slightly nervous using it on the welcoming party, or do they literally always take something closest to themselves? 23:34:50 Even if you're standing just one space further away 23:34:51 ? 23:35:15 It's not consistent; you're still going to get bashed a lot by frenzied vault guards unless you blink out of the circle (or something) and run really quickly away from there. 23:36:07 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:36:17 The other notion I've had is using this against Orb Guardians and having them beat up the tougher denizens of the Hall of Zot, but that seems to be really tricky to pull off. 23:36:29 Well, orb guardians have quite good MR 23:36:37 Orb Guardian (06X) | Spd: 14 | HD: 15 | HP: 59-103 | AC/EV: 13/13 | Dam: 45 | 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120), 12drown | XP: 3899 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 23:36:37 %??orb guardian 23:36:54 Working on draconians seem pretty likely though 23:36:58 yellow draconian annihilator (12d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 71-90 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(85), 08acid | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1990 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5); b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:36:58 %??draconian annihilator 23:37:11 I think the non-classed ones are even lower 23:37:19 (Barring purples, of course) 23:38:22 The spell might be reasonable. One concern of mine though is that there are few things it would work well on that do not already succumb to invisibility even better. 23:38:39 Vault guards / wardens and such are one such thing 23:39:09 Deep trolls too 23:40:08 Maybe even frost and stone giants, and tengu reavers now 23:40:12 So I suppose a few things 23:41:16 But, in the general, I'd think it nice if a hex as high as level 8 could also have extended endgame applications, and this doesn't 23:41:51 how about level A 23:41:52 Even if demon / high-tier undead MR wasn't so high, they couldn't be frenzied anyway :P 23:41:56 can we have a level A hex 23:42:14 I've been dithering over whether this should be level 7 or 8. <_< 23:42:53 Yeah, I'm uncertain too, to be honest 23:43:02 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:17 I would want to actually play with it to see how easily it solves certain problems for you without creating new ones :P 23:43:37 The patch is there if you want to play with it. :) 23:43:49 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2116-g5cefd36 (34) 23:43:53 Yeah, I might later 23:44:16 I have been running xp and lethality statistics on various branches and versions and such 23:45:11 Oh? 23:45:15 Since newcrypt (despite the rhetoric to the contrary) is still the least lethal branch in the whole game and quite possibly xl has a lot to do with that 23:45:19 Do tell when you have something meaningful to report :) 23:45:33 Not that there's an easy or obvious fix 23:45:46 But I've been making charts and tables here :P 23:46:41 DracoOmega the Chartographer 23:46:52 (not to be confused with a Cartographer; those would be our vault experts <_<) 23:46:58 Did you realize that Swamp is proportionally more likely to kill someone than Zot is? 23:47:25 (As a ratio of br.end milestones vs. deaths in the branch) 23:49:03 what about people who didn't WANT to go to Swamp:$ 23:49:23 Well, if they cleared some bits then left again, it obviously didn't kill them there either 23:49:28 hmm, true 23:49:47 Is Snake still the proportionally most lethal lair branch? 23:49:48 It's just that br.end seemed like a reasonable thing to use to infer 'I am attempting to clear this branch' 23:49:54 (I remember computing this a long time ago.) 23:50:05 Yes, they're all virtually identical except Snake, which is higher 23:50:10 (And most of the difference is Lamia) 23:50:41 how did you calculate how many would have survived if lamia hadn't been there 23:50:56 Well, I meant by just excluding the stuff killed by her or her band 23:51:02 If you take those out, the ratios are a lot more similar 23:51:23 Since she's the higher ikiller in the whole branch 23:51:39 !lg * cv=0.12 place=~Snake x=ikiller 23:51:39 222. [ikiller=a naga warrior] Vesto the Bludgeoner (L17 MiFi), worshipper of Okawaru, mangled by a naga warrior on Snake:3 on 2013-06-25 19:00:08, with 194566 points after 45221 turns and 3:32:17. 23:51:43 !lg * cv=0.12 place=~Snake s=ikiller 23:51:46 222 games for * (cv=0.12 place=~Snake): 64x Lamia, 48x a naga warrior, 37x a greater naga, 10x an anaconda, 7x Nikola, 7x a black mamba, 5x a naga mage, 4x Norris, 4x a naga, 4x Aizul, 4x, 3x Jorgrun, 3x Boris, 3x a salamander, 2x Kor's ghost, 2x Mara, 2x Frederick, 2x Roxanne, the fury of Okawaru, an electric eel, Nessos, Rupert, Mennas, an illusion of Mara, Frances, Wiglaf, Tolias' ghost, alista... 23:52:09 2x Kor's ghost. Nice :P 23:52:24 As dangerous as Mara 23:54:03 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:54:49 The lethality percentage of the other Lair rune branches is 16.4%. Oldcrypt was a pitiful 4.6%. Newcrypt is still a quite low 6.8% or something, though. 23:54:56 -!- GRAVITATION has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:55:12 Which is lower than literally everything else 23:56:05 -!- Silvaris has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:56:54 I had thought the numbers for Swamp seemed rather high, since the branch is not exactly noted for its lethality (and interestingly, Swamp:$ did not account for the majority of the deaths, either), but if you split these by xl, it's amazing how strong some of the trends are 23:57:13 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:24 Swamp lethality at xl<20: 18.7% 23:57:25 Swamp lethality at xl>=20: 2.8% 23:58:04 (I did the breakdown more discretely, but that was around the point where the ratios started to drop dramatically) 23:59:33 You can see a very similar thing for newcrypt at a couple levels higher cusp