00:00:32 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.2-9-gf1dcfd2 00:01:21 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2003-gf800a4a (34) 00:03:41 mumra: could we use the rim-generating code at runtime or something 00:03:50 to make a green outline of whatever weapon 00:04:09 ontoclasm: i'm thinking it'd be good to start using runtime effects for a few things 00:04:09 or i could make outlines of, say, each weapon type 00:04:17 this would cut down on tilesheet sizes and complexity 00:04:26 and also solve some of the problems on older graphics cards i believe 00:04:52 !tell DracoOmega: I updated the change log patch here. It works on my machine, but the diffs are weird: http://pastebin.com/N9AEkRBp 00:04:53 reaver: OK, I'll let dracoomega: know. 00:04:56 ontoclasm: yeah maybe just one image for each main weapon would be a simple alternative 00:04:56 -!- reaver has quit [] 00:05:27 Stable (0.12) branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.12.2-9-gf1dcfd2 00:05:53 Okay, I'll take a look at it in a bit 00:06:06 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:06:07 Also, I think one spectral weapon tile per weapon class seems fine 00:06:23 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 00:06:23 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:47 As a way of minimizing work. I mean, it's a magical projected thing anyway. Who's to say it looks exactly like the normal one? 00:07:30 A spectral sword embodies the CONCEPT of 'sword', rather than looking exactly like your particular example of one, say :P 00:08:24 so spectral unrands aren't a thing? 00:10:58 xD 00:12:32 Incidentally, it is rather annoying to observe the behavior of things that only happen while not being observed 00:13:14 -!- santiago has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:36 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 00:14:37 isn't there some infinite LoS setting you can enable 00:14:40 in wizmode 00:14:48 or, er, I guess that won't work 00:14:56 Yes, but unfortunately that makes it stop moving again :P 00:15:05 yeah 00:15:09 I see the problem :-( 00:15:25 I know, use ash and invis it 00:15:31 I am using Ash, yes 00:15:40 But unfortunately monster detection is not 100% 00:15:57 So sometimes it disappears again (I can use &D as well, but that's just more work is all :P) 00:15:58 are you using invis? 00:16:12 Wouldn't matter here 00:16:19 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2003-gf800a4a (34) 00:16:23 don't things in decent range show up reliably? 00:16:38 with the ash/antennae effect? 00:17:07 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 00:17:07 but normally that's mostly in LoS of you 00:17:24 Sometimes they seem to be vanishing again 00:17:31 I am not sure exactly what controls this 00:18:30 Hmmm... actually, I think they are not displayed if they are where you have a memory of the monster being early, from actually seeing it 00:18:37 Now that I pay closer attention 00:19:23 sword, axe, mace, whip, spear 00:19:27 have i missed something 00:19:31 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:12 Staff 00:20:18 ah, thanks 00:24:17 well this is interesting ... i have an implementation for summons caps, now the real bikeshedding begins: 00:24:27 what should be the limits for each type of spell? :P 00:24:52 sputterflies: 1 but 2 on tuesday 00:25:18 call canine familiar: 148. shadow creatures: 9 and a half 00:25:23 how are we defining types 00:25:36 can the cap be 1d27 rolled at chargen for everyone 00:27:30 mumra: What happens if you try to cast at the cap? Nothing and you waste time/mp? Nothing and it just doesn't let you? Does it replace an existing summon with a new one? 00:27:35 3 sounds like a good base number 00:27:51 DracoOmega: just doesn't let you 00:27:59 MarvinPA: 3 sounds bad/impossible for some spells 00:28:15 3 maybe bad for call imp or spammals 00:28:17 right i mean 3 as a starting point, more for weak stuff, less for strong stuff 00:28:18 MarvinPA: Like, what do 3 butterflies even DO? 00:28:21 on ##crawl somebody mentioned the idea of varying with summon power 00:28:23 good for summon dragon probably 00:28:30 not "it should be 3 for every spell" 00:28:32 so like butterflies would get 100 00:28:51 Is it worth just specifying an individual cap for each spell 00:28:51 yeah, 3 was mentioned for dragons too 00:29:11 also god abilities get caps too then? 00:29:12 yeah 3 seems reasonable for most things 00:29:14 ugly things, common demons, ice beasts, 00:29:18 What happens if you have 2 dragons, and you roll for summoning 2 at once? 00:29:36 i've done it in such a way that the cap can be fuzzed a little bit as well, so sometimes you'd end up with 3, sometimes 4 00:29:38 DracoOmega: you reroll for a better single dragon or something? 00:29:44 basically the cap is a range 00:29:45 or what mumra says 00:29:51 that sounds pretty good 00:29:53 mumra: Fuzzed how? 00:30:03 with math 00:30:06 of course 00:30:16 That's... not what I meant 00:30:17 anyway obviously it shouldn't crash in that case ;-) 00:30:30 * Grunt is reminded of his old soft summoning cap worj. 00:30:33 *work 00:30:37 Are you saying that if you cast near the cap, sometimes it will fail and sometimes succeed? 00:30:37 so it's like this : if something has a cap of '5' and a fuzz value '2' 00:30:46 then sometimes you might only be left with 3 00:30:52 but maybe another cast could leave you with 4 or 5 00:31:10 so.... the range is 3-5 then? 00:31:13 i don't know how whether this will work out really well or not 00:31:26 Doesn't basically equate to summoning spells randomly failing based on how many you have out? 00:31:39 not exactly 00:31:58 hmm, I think the "cap" should be the lower end of what you might end up with 00:32:15 and you shouldn't be allowed to cast at the cap 00:32:19 DracoOmega: but for the original question you asked -- if you are already at the cap and you cast it again, it'll replace the ones that are going to expire soonest 00:32:27 I would've expected 3 to be the point where you stop being able to cast, but a cast from 2 possibly lets you get to 4-5 00:32:34 or ... that does make sense actually ... 00:32:37 SamB: i think casting at the cap is fine, you could replace old/damaged summons that way 00:32:44 yeah 00:32:46 Yes, I think that makes sense 00:32:50 now that I think about it 00:33:01 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:10 so how does it know if timed expiry or death is more imminent, though? 00:33:16 also, there will be a short number of turns before the old ones disappear 00:33:18 But I think having a variable cap there might be sort of bad, since then might it not encourage you to keep casting and recycling things until you have as many as you can theoretically get? 00:33:18 if that would change which to replace? 00:33:28 so you can spam to get a large number for few turns but it'll stabilise 00:33:48 how about just a hard cap 00:34:17 i don't see a problem with just having a cap and telling the player what it is so that you'll know what casting the spell will actually do, yeah 00:34:18 the other thing sounds like it wouldn't really do anything useful? 00:34:19 DracoOmega: yes, i've thought of this (like i say i don't know how it'll work out but it might be possible to get around that, e.g. you have 5 and cast the spell, you might only end up with 3 or 4 afterwards...) 00:34:33 Well, probably you do not want to cast summon dragon, roll two plain dragons, have the second bring you over the cap and replace a golden dragon 00:34:45 hmm, yes 00:34:54 re: going over the cap (be it soft or hard) i think a good way to handle that might be to give a prompt like "you don't feel you can control so many foo. continue (Y/N)?" 00:34:57 -!- NotKintak has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:04 then if they go over the limit the summon is hostile 00:35:05 MarvinPA: yeah that is reasonable, to be honest let's not get bogged down in the fuzzing, it's just an idea i was trying out 00:35:11 But if plain dragons always come in pairs at high power, might they not count as 'one'? 00:35:18 Like one unit of dragon 00:35:22 no, they count as two 00:35:32 we could just set the cap at 4 00:35:46 I realize they probably CURRENTLY do, but I sort of think it's bad if they can push you over the cap and recycle stronger dragons away, even if you only have 2 out when casting 00:35:50 since that's a multiple of 2 00:36:02 SamB: Well, some dragons come in singles, and some in doubles 00:36:05 fr: treat big weapons as really tiny shields 00:36:05 oh 00:36:15 something else i was considering was raising the caps a bit as your skills go up, but yeah for an initial implementation let's stick with a hard cap 00:36:18 myrmidette: heh 00:36:18 smaller than bucklers 00:36:26 even GSC? 00:36:29 really? 00:36:43 I could totally imagine blocking an attack with one 00:36:44 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:36:50 I kind of think a GSC is probably bigger than a buckler, I mean 00:37:02 oh cool new skald icons went in already 00:37:03 well, maybe not all of them should be tiny 00:37:09 Well, probably it is not a great thing to make two-handers have further advantages compared to one-hander+shield 00:37:24 which is why they would probably not give too much sh 00:37:35 Well, that's still more SH than they currently give 00:37:45 heh 00:37:52 DracoOmega: could have some algorithm to determine "weakest" out of all available and abdure the weakest ones, taking into account time left to expiry, monster strength, health, etc. etc. but it's much simpler to just recycle the old ones 00:37:54 solution: make shields give too much SH 00:37:55 And thus a relative buff in comparison 00:38:00 and if you don't like the dragons it gives you ... cast it again 00:38:19 make shields give 3x the SH to ruin the crazy keyword 00:38:33 tone down the other stats to balance it out? 00:38:35 die, sel? 00:38:42 isn't that what we usually do 00:38:45 mumra: That does sound complicated to determine, yes. I still do wonder if we couldn't consider the pair of low ranking one as single 'unit' as far as the spell is concerned 00:38:51 when we add new features like cleaving 00:38:59 DracoOmega: that might be the best plan yes 00:39:01 mumra: This is probably a lot more complicated by spells that have a much wider range of how many things they can give at once 00:39:06 Like, say, shadow creatures 00:39:06 could manually set different weights for different summons 00:39:23 and could make summons types scale up better with spell power using the mon-pick stuff 00:39:29 Does that yak pack replace two hydra and everything else you have? 00:39:33 there are lots of options really 00:40:05 mumra: Well, that ALREADY happens with summon dragon 00:40:09 The better ones are more likely at higher power 00:40:13 oh, also, what about that Summon Caps spell 00:40:22 for two-headed ogres 00:40:52 DracoOmega: it's probably not a problem then (but not all summoning spells scale up in the same way) 00:41:33 ontoclasm: sweet newskald tiles. And thanks for such fast work. :D 00:41:38 But really, a lot of spell vary greatly in how many things they give per cast, so I think this is a general problem that needs some kind of consistent solution, whatever it is 00:41:38 i imagine there will have to be lots of tweaking for individual spells to make sense 00:42:10 Scorpions can give anywhere from like 2-8 per cast 00:43:16 Well, not so bad there I guess, since they're all the same, so who cares if they get recycled upon cast? 00:43:31 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 00:43:43 Things with either consistant number of power are probably fine 00:43:47 Might be too much complication, but would it be possible to add a property uniquely identifying which casting produced a set of summons (say time of casting). The hard part would be searching for the summons of a given casting still alive. 00:43:48 number OR power, rather 00:44:29 qoala: it would indeed be possible 00:44:36 So rather than an actual number cap of summons from the spell, an effective number of castings. 00:44:55 since that was what you were using as an initial guide. 00:46:02 i don't like the hidden variables nature of that 00:47:15 And, say, how do you know which of the scorpions are from one 'batch' so that you can cast more of them? 00:47:22 What if you end up with like 3 left, 1 from each batch? 00:48:01 At least for shadow creatures, it would replace the yak pack all at once. Possibly only makes sense to the player for the spells which produce differentiated summons. (and thus probably not worth it) 00:48:07 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:48:37 yeah, summon scorpions and butterflies would probably be rather unintuitive. Since the player can't see the batching 00:49:55 I am not even sure a summon cap makes much sense for butterflies, since the only butterflies that are useful are the ones near you, so you could keep recycling them anyway 00:50:17 The ones that have wandered away from what you want them to block are irrelevant 00:52:56 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 00:54:24 -!- snwl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:58:34 butterflies are awesome for starving archer statues 00:59:10 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:17 what glyph are spectral weapons 01:01:44 Failed to create test monster for spectral weapon 01:01:44 %??spectral weapon 01:01:52 Monster 'spectral weapon' can't use items. 01:01:52 %??spectral weapon; short sword 01:02:44 qoala: can you answer the question? 01:02:55 same as dancing, I think? 01:03:00 uh 01:03:03 7 ? 01:03:15 or ) or something? 01:03:15 one moment 01:03:28 yeah, the opposite of what they are on the floor, aren't they? 01:03:35 i redefine all my glyphs so 01:03:36 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:51 ah 01:03:56 xD 01:04:00 '(' 01:04:03 ok 01:07:07 now 01:07:24 what do i call to figure out what class of weapon is being used 01:07:46 -!- snwl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:15 so I believe that dancing/spectral weapons techically equip themselves in the weapon slot 01:08:30 since there's no special casing for things like reaching, etc. 01:09:15 qoala: can you make it possible to invoke monster on spectral like on dancing? 01:09:21 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:09:25 or maybe I can do that ... 01:09:41 hmm, but it would take forever for me to build it ... 01:09:57 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:00 ??dancing weapon 01:10:01 dancing weapon[1/1]: When randomly spawned, is one of battleaxe, broad axe, flail, glaive, great mace, halberd, hand axe, long sword, morningstar, scimitar, short sword, spiked flail, trident, war axe. Hall of Blades spawns will almost always have egos. %?? dancing weapon ; (weapon) to see the stats; nearly all have good speed, ac, ev, and omni-resistances. 01:10:04 dancing weapon (15() | Spd: 13-19 | HD: 15 | HP: 16-54 | AC/EV: 17/18 | Dam: 36 | 11non-living, fighter, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1146 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 01:10:04 %??dancing weapon 01:10:14 dancing weapon (05() | Spd: 19 | HD: 15 | HP: 10 | AC/EV: 5/20 | Dam: 12 | 11non-living, fighter, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 858 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 01:10:14 %??dancing weapon; spear 01:10:29 oh 01:10:43 dancing weapon (06() | Spd: 13 | HD: 15 | HP: 50 | AC/EV: 25/17 | Dam: 30 | 11non-living, fighter, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1236 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 01:10:43 %??dancing weapon; battleaxe 01:10:44 Failed to create test monster for spectral weapon 01:10:44 %??spectral weapon 01:11:01 Does monster just need mons syntax capability? 01:11:13 yeah 01:11:18 is it missing a name or something? 01:11:48 invoke monster? 01:12:28 Well, lainiw mostly just added spectral weapon to the special casing of things that handled dancing weapon. But probably skipped wherever mons syntax is parsed. Any idea where that is? 01:12:48 I don't know :-( 01:13:03 possible to invoke monster on spectral like on dancing 01:13:11 how do I invoke monster on dancing 01:13:47 dancing weapon (15() | Spd: 17 | HD: 15 | HP: 10 | AC/EV: 5/19 | Dam: 10 | 11non-living, fighter, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 770 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 01:13:47 %??dancing weapon; club 01:14:07 ??rod of inaccuracy 01:14:08 bolt of inaccuracy[1/1]: Deals good damage at Evocations level 0 - 27. You can line up several nasty monsters and blast them down all at once (irresistable damage!). Especially good with a corona-type effect like Sunlight or TSO halo to make it more accurate. 01:14:10 qoala: it looks like it sort-of understands it but then refuses to actually be created :-( 01:14:23 ??bolt of inaccuracy 01:14:24 bolt of inaccuracy[1/1]: Deals good damage at Evocations level 0 - 27. You can line up several nasty monsters and blast them down all at once (irresistable damage!). Especially good with a corona-type effect like Sunlight or TSO halo to make it more accurate. 01:15:03 -!- tolly has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:15:31 yyyyeah, i'm gonna just push these tiles and let someone more competent rig them up 01:15:34 I'm guessing it's attempting to generate it as a normal monster, and we just need to add it to the existing dancing weapon special case. I just need to figure out where that actually is 01:16:30 ontoclasm: so if you query ->weapon() you can get the weapon's item_def. I'm not actually sure how one checks the subtype of an item, but I presume there's a standard method. 01:17:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:17:57 * SamB greps for DANCING 01:18:25 hmmm... it's neither type nor sub_type 01:18:35 no 01:18:44 i'm guess i'll have to make a horrible function just for this 01:18:47 * qoala is multi-tasking between two searches rather poorly 01:18:55 because "this weapon is an axe" is beyond crawl's code 01:18:58 how do skills work? 01:19:21 hackish, but co-opt the weapon to skill function? 01:19:25 ontoclasm: why can't we just do some kind of filter to all the weopon tiles? 01:19:51 we could i guess 01:20:21 i mean we could just make them look like dancing weapons and give them a spoooky little icon 01:20:24 -!- bh has quit [] 01:20:34 that sounds like a good interim plan 01:20:54 just a little picture of a white-sheet ghost 01:21:00 of course that means yet another tile flag -_- 01:21:28 itemprop.h:weapon_skill converts an item_def to a skill_type 01:21:44 or we could use that ... 01:21:45 qoala: yes, i found that 01:22:09 i guess i can just special case for whips and flails 01:25:37 ah, you did a split within maces & flails 01:25:46 yeah, but i can deal with that 01:26:11 with my paltry c++ skills 01:27:23 qoala: well I found one mention of MONS_DANCING_WEAPON in mapdef.cc that needs to be updated to handle spectrals too 01:27:37 but I don't think that'll be enough 01:28:40 yeah, that seems to be at least part of it 01:30:01 -!- qoala_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:07 parse_mons_spec is certainly an appropriate sounding function for this stuff 01:32:24 another problem with monster, is going to be the fact that chunks of its code are at least partially dependent on a properly initialized owner property. 01:32:37 I don't think that's the current obstacle I'm up against though 01:32:53 hmm, maybe we should just leave it then 01:32:55 -!- Eldarby has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:33:10 also, how do i get a weapon's weapon_type, e.g. WPN_DEMON_WHIP 01:33:25 weapon.base_type? 01:33:30 -!- qoala has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:33:43 -!- qoala_ is now known as qoala 01:34:00 ontoclasm: crawl-gdb.py might reveal something 01:34:23 ontoclasm: no weapon.sub_type 01:34:26 it looks like that's a sub_type 01:35:02 ah, yes 01:38:37 base_type would be OBJ_WEAPONS 01:39:49 Okay dungeon.cc:dgn_place_monster, line 4883. There's a mons->ghost that inits the dancing weapon somehow? 01:41:26 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 01:41:54 qoala: darn, I think I might have even seen where that gets created 01:42:09 -!- popx_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:26 Does placing a freestanding dancing weapon generate a player ghost to cast the spell? 01:43:04 This place is so amazingly laggy in webtiles. 01:43:12 okay so >.> i hate to make this like, c++ 101, but when do i add const to a variable 01:43:32 because I can start making a copy of ghost_demon::init_dancing_weapon that simulates creating a spectral weapon, but I have no idea what's going on around this function 01:43:53 input argument? output? variable inside a function? 01:44:02 qoala: like I said before, if it depends on the owner anyway maybe we should just shelve this ;-) 01:44:19 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44:28 http://pastie.org/8077677 01:44:29 first or latter case: make it const if you have no intention of modifying any part of the the object's state. 01:44:39 should it be "const weapon_type" or not 01:45:03 okay, yeah, i'm just looking at it, so it can be const, right? 01:45:31 -!- bobross has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:46:06 yeah 01:46:23 -!- Letchik has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:46:34 also i guess i don't need to check == OBJ_WEAPONS since if it weren't than weapon_skill would have returned something wacky 01:46:38 and i'd be at default anyhow 01:46:48 though that's an enum, rather than an object 01:47:35 so it doesn't need const? 01:48:11 I think the compiler can use the fact that it's const to perform some optimizations, so it's probably still a good idea. 01:48:25 ok 01:48:34 SamB: I'm honestly not sure what monster needs to do with a placed spectral weapon. 01:48:39 well, let's see if this nonsense compiles 01:48:41 battlesphere (13*) | Spd: 30 | HD: 5 | HP: 10-20 | AC/EV: 0/5 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 08acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 0 | Sz: little | Int: plant. 01:48:41 %?? battlesphere 01:49:32 It clearly manages to produce some information for the battlesphere. I believe only the AI actually needs the owner, which is probably similar to battlesphere. 01:50:23 The creation code should work fine without an owner. I'm just not sure whether or not monster will be able to make the thing attack (if it needs to do so). 01:50:52 well considering I don't even know where to get a copy of monster :-( 01:52:52 Well, lets try to get the creation code working, and sort out what nonsense happens after it's created later. 01:53:38 Any idea why dgn_place_monster apparently initializes a ghost_demon for dancing weapons? And how it possibly works using a method of the ghost before it actually initializes the ghost_demon? 01:55:32 where does it call a method before initialization? 01:57:44 I may be wrong about what the initialization does, but dungeon.cc:4883 01:58:28 It uses mons->ghost, then calls mons->ghost_demon_init() on the next line. The ghost is already constructed of course, but I'm not sure what the init function sets up. 01:58:44 It clearl already works. 01:58:53 *clearly 01:59:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: BRB, DEAD] 02:01:03 I also have yet to find where creating a dancing weapon without an explicit weapon picks an appropriate random weapon. Since dgn_place_monster asserts that the weapon already exists. 02:01:34 good question 02:01:49 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-2004-gbe9a32c: Spectral weapon tiles 10(41 seconds ago, 11 files, 38+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=be9a32c9e809 02:01:50 but it's no big deal if it asserts in monster really 02:02:10 not as bad as this, anyway 02:02:14 yay, spectral weapon tiles! 02:02:28 ??mimic 02:02:29 mimic[1/2]: They imitate items and features, and chase you when you come within a square of them. Their bites are poisonous. Now they can have constriction too! Enjoy! Gretell knows it as FEATURE MIMIC. 02:02:32 thanks ontoclasm! (although i kind of liked the big ? following me) 02:02:38 feature mimic (16X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-58 | AC/EV: 5/1 | Dam: 12, 1208(poison), 003(constrict) | 11non-living | Res: 06magic(32), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 399 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 02:02:38 %??feature mimic 02:03:22 ontoclasm: I think the short blade looks like a long blade if you didn't have the long blade one to compare it to, but that's just a quibble :P 02:04:56 DracoOmega: yeah, i drew that one first so it was kind of... "generic weapon" 02:05:03 maybe it should be more dagger-like 02:05:18 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:35 ah, figured out the less important question. create_monster generates an appropriate weapon for a spectral or dancing weapon that lacks one. This is called before the assert I noticed. 02:07:11 -!- RZX has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 02:07:26 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-2005-gec64162: Make spectral short blades actually short 10(22 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ec64162d13b6 02:07:46 thanks qoala :D 02:08:01 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:08:46 btw i am blaming my lack of wins on being distracted from playing to fix tiles i run across 02:08:59 Better :) 02:09:18 Clearly you should be diving Forest then 02:09:33 :P 02:10:36 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:22 phew 02:11:30 New branch created: summonscap (2 commits) 02:11:31 03mumra 07[summonscap] * 0.13-a0-2006-g43105d4: A data indexer template 10(78 minutes ago, 3 files, 52+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43105d435d00 02:11:31 03mumra 07[summonscap] * 0.13-a0-2007-ge640e6c: Limit number of summons per spell type 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 155+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e640e6cede94 02:11:33 i need to stop getting sidetracked by these complicated projects 02:11:49 also, infusion needs more flavourful messages 02:12:03 "you feel less magically infused" is really awkward-sounding" 02:12:18 "you feel defused" 02:12:53 ^ does anyone have any comments on the summons cap implementation or should i just merge and wait for the backlash :P 02:14:51 mumra: if you want comments you should give it a bit ;-P 02:14:55 like some hours 02:15:05 or a day even 02:15:33 i find people either comment at the time when they see the chei messages, or never 02:15:43 mumra: Has it changed since you mentioned it earlier in any way? 02:16:19 i ditched the fuzzing at least until i've thought about things more 02:16:36 mumra: well I'm not sure why you put it in a branch then 02:17:00 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:04 mumra: did you figure out what you were doing re: going over the cap? 02:17:11 so it's just a hard cap, you can briefly go over it for about a turn or two before the old summons disappear 02:17:31 ah 02:18:41 that's probably less punitive than my suggestion anyway =) 02:18:43 I am not certain that making them expire a turn or two later is better than immediately. I am a bit wary that it may make the connection to you summoning more of them less obvious, and I'm not sure how it avoids the problems discussed earlier. 02:19:22 it kind of looks weird when they disappear immediately, since smoke clouds are generated and some of the new ones appear *in* those smoke clouds, you can't tell what's going on 02:19:48 (of course, "a turn or two" could be set to slightly more turns, if we want to make it more useful) 02:20:20 Hmmm 02:20:48 SamB: no, i'm not going to merge it now, it'd be good if people could look over the caps per spell or even test it first 02:21:09 mumra: oh, fine then 02:21:09 and i want to have a look at a couple of other things that have been talked about, e.g. stairs behaviour 02:21:29 maybe some kind of enchantment for those about to disappear? 02:21:41 Yeah, I feel there's a lot of edge case type stuff here that needs consideration 02:21:58 SamB: yes, i implemented it with that already, they could get a status light so you know which ones are going 02:22:14 also, i need to think about some spells that aren't taken into account yet: necromancy, rod of the swarm 02:22:33 Well, the rod is less spammable in the moment, being a rod 02:22:34 (god abilities are ignored but that seems fine) 02:23:02 yes 02:23:06 If by necromancy you mean zombies, I am not so sure that capping THOSE was ever really meant to be part of this? 02:23:17 indeed 02:23:22 I think not 02:23:23 what currently doesn't make sense is that (i think) some summon spells can produce more monsters in 1 cast than the cap supports 02:23:37 no zombies/skeletons should be ignored 02:23:43 but i'm talking about haunt, simulacra ... 02:24:17 Well, simulacra don't last very long and need corpses 02:24:18 s/no/no,/ 02:24:22 Haunt is a regular summon 02:24:46 And if that first number in the summon list is the cap, Horrible Things produces like 3 times the cap in one cast 02:24:51 yeah, that's how i felt 02:25:09 Well, haunt at the moment is already sort of balanced by being single target 02:25:12 yes that's right; so either the spells need to produce less summons, or some caps should be higher 02:25:23 -!- sprort has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:25:26 Well, 2 abominations for a level 8 spells is... not really so great a deal 02:26:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:13 i think it's good having the caps apply only to non-necromantic spells 02:26:31 Like, at the very least the cap should allow what comes out of a single cast of something 02:26:43 why should haunt be treated specially because it's necro... 02:27:04 Well, haunt could be treated differently since they will only kill the one target, then disappear 02:27:12 Which has nothing to do with it being necro 02:28:35 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:23 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:29:43 -!- jeffrom has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:31:15 oh wow, apparently the summon doesn't actually store the summoner anywhere, except written in the blame text 02:31:26 (i just realised a fairly obvious bug in the current code) 02:32:28 mumra: it counts dudes' summons as yours? 02:32:39 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:33:55 yeah 02:33:55 mumra: Yeah, I was surprised at that, too. I can't remember what it was for, but SOMETHING I tried to do a while ago was slightly flummoxed by that 02:34:00 Oh, maybe it was battlesphere, actually 02:34:42 surely there's a field for this? 02:34:51 that just isn't being used properly? 02:36:48 03mumra 07[summonscap] * 0.13-a0-2008-ga8393f4: Fix a bug and simplify 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a8393f4dd494 02:36:50 Kikubaaqudgha has been misspelled in description of scroll of vorpalise weapon by SkaryMonk 02:37:44 SamB: No, I'm pretty sure there really is no field for it 02:38:01 lol @ http://yafgc.net/?id=1416 02:38:23 DracoOmega: so how do battlespheres have even the slightest idea who they're following? 02:38:31 SamB: there's a field on mgen_data 02:38:39 but nothing on monster itself 02:38:44 magic 02:38:55 we should probably fix this of course 02:38:56 SamB: A prop 02:39:00 oh 02:39:15 Which I used because there WAS no summoner field :P 02:39:41 at the moment i've hacked it by checking ->friendly(), since the code isn't being used for monster summons anyway 02:39:51 Battlesphere and Spectral Weapon use their own, custom prop to track their owner. If summons end up getting a general prop for the summoner, perhaps these should be changed to match? 02:39:55 -!- Talesweaver has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:39:57 but this doesn't seem very stable 02:40:47 mumra: but will this interact badly when monsters can summon the same creatures as you? 02:40:48 qoala: definitely. probably needs some save migration but i don't see a reason *not* to have this property easily available 02:41:06 mumra: certainly requires some migration 02:41:07 No, it makes sense for a number of purposes 02:41:19 but yes, it should happen 02:41:20 (I guess snaplasher vines are using a prop for the same sort of purpose, too) 02:41:22 SamB: hmm, it could be bad if your own summons are also summoning things 02:41:41 mumra: I was thinking like if you had some of those orcs 02:41:59 mumra: I don't think those should fall under YOUR cap, as such, since that's just what the monster itself is doing 02:41:59 SamB: but it does also check the spell type, so the requirement would be friendly summon summoned by a player spell that monsters can use 02:42:08 no 02:42:10 Also, even casting tukima's dance uses a mysterious ghost to help initialize the weapon. Is the ghost a simulated wielder for the weapon then? How in the 4 hells has spectral weapon been working without using this code path? 02:42:12 mumra: If you summon a summoner, then summoning is sort of what it needs to do to function 02:42:23 unfortunately there's no obvious way around this without recording the summoner properly 02:42:35 DracoOmega: it wouldn't stop the summoner summoning 02:42:41 only the player :) 02:42:44 qoala: The ghost_demon is used to set speed and damage for the dancing weapon 02:42:57 qoala: Well, and other stats 02:43:09 Since most of them are not configurable on a monster without that 02:43:55 well, spectral weapon doesn't call ghost_demon::init_dancing_weapon 02:44:13 Perhaps it should? 02:44:39 maybe it's being incredibly weak as a result 02:44:51 unless he special-cased the attacks (like i did for chimera) but i didn't notice that 02:45:36 perhaps it should, yes 02:45:39 I haven't looked at the spectral weapon code myself 02:46:07 yeah, I believe the bare minimum of things were changed to make it create a summon that seemed to act appropriately. Once I figure out all the ramifications of this function, it probably needs to be called for SW too. 02:48:24 DracoOmega: actually IOOD and boulders are also using a prop for this 02:49:11 i think this prop is popular enough to promote it to a monster field 02:49:29 Yes, it would make sense 02:50:46 is everyone using the same prop? 02:51:09 SamB: not yet. Every one has their own idea what it should be called 02:51:19 So some of the monster properties are set manually after the monster is created by the spell cast code in spl-summoning. These possibly need to be incorporated 02:52:21 "Trog doesn't appreciate your training magic!" 02:52:49 fr: piety for not training magic 03:03:55 Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a ghost_demon is initialized, its stats are used instead of the mons stats? 03:04:40 Because most of the stats set on the ghost demon are already being set for the spectral weapon (it's just in a function that 03:04:50 's currently not exposable to the dungeon placement) 03:05:22 The only things that aren't are the speed and damage. 03:06:43 ah, *that's* what ghost_demon_init does. It copies the ghost's stats onto the monster 03:09:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:11:31 Okay, so if I transition this to using a pseudo-ghost wielder, I'll need to make a separate custom version which initializes the ghost's stats in the way SW was balanced, rather than TD. 03:11:41 Notably, this will require passing an extra parameter for the weapon skill, in addition to the spell power. 03:16:59 Do ttyrecs from cln not work properly? 03:17:14 I've heard of something like that 03:17:20 potential problem: placed dancing weapons get a default spell power of 100. What should placed spectral weapons use for default weapon skill? 03:17:23 At least the one I just queried didn't seem to contain what I was looking for 03:17:40 qoala: Does this matter if they will never be created at default? 03:17:56 well, it affects what monster does 03:18:01 I suppose that's about all 03:18:59 yeah, it's relatively inconsequential, but given how people tend to use monster, it'd be best to do something sensible. 03:19:46 Either mid-range or max, I'd say. Not sure which I think is better 03:19:57 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 03:21:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:21:50 hmmm... apparently init_dancing_weapon is called twice when a dancing weapon is placed. At least via wizmode, but probably via vault and Hall spawns too. This isn't detrimental, but possibly unnecessary 03:24:42 I believe the first time is because something needs to query SOMETHING about it before setup is finished? 03:25:07 But I am not sure 03:29:19 -!- aves has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:30:04 !tell |amethyst Fixed, but there are no admin accounts yet. Who wants some? 03:30:04 joosa: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:30:05 joosa: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 03:30:13 !messages 03:30:14 (1/1) |amethyst said (5h 54m 26s ago): Internal Server Error from the rebuild script 03:30:44 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:33:31 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:33:39 -!- snwl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:34:46 Webtiles server restarted. 03:36:24 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:36:46 -!- Writ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:37:59 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:39:08 DracoOmega: The first time apparently isn't aware of what weapon to use yet (but is the code path generally taken). The second time enforces the actual weapon. 03:39:47 Ah 03:40:43 I think. I'm a little unclear how the mons_spec weapon disappears then resurfaces. But querying the weapon in gdb clearly shows a random weapon in the first call. 03:42:23 regarding the recent changelog updates: it's probably better to keep the old format: update changelog to 03:42:50 I'm not sure if it's only the case with wiz mode creation (I suspect not), but this leads to an incorrect message if a dancin weapon is placed within view of the player. 03:42:53 because the current way of updating the changelog seems like even more stuff is going to be forgotten than before 03:43:11 "A short sword comes into view " --> dancing spear 03:43:59 alefury: regular updates of the changelog are complete, this one was just a random mention of a single feature 03:44:10 which probably does more harm than good 03:48:39 -!- snwl|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:49:57 So I think that if dgn_place_monster set the TUKIMA_WEAPON prop before calling place_monster, the duplicate weapon initialization and incorrect message will be fixed 03:50:23 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:50:47 kilobyte: complete up to some commit, yes. i think the last two updates were just partial, though. 03:51:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:51:26 Yes, I think the last changelog update just has skald stuff and not the stuff I pushed yesterday 03:51:58 (Though I hadn't read it, that is what I thought) 03:52:39 Oh, wait, I DID read it, and just forgot >.> 03:54:01 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:55:19 -!- snwl has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:57:05 Oh, we have newskald now 03:57:14 -!- Implojin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:58:09 how do I give an unrand in a mons spec, again? 03:59:27 Something like: great mace unrand:mace_of_variability 04:01:13 and now I know why dgn_place_monster doesn't just set the TUKIMA_WEAPON appropriately on the first time through. The weapon doesn't exist until _dgn_give_mons_spec_items is called later, which does a pile of processing on the items that shouldn't be duplicated. 04:01:28 mumra: is the XXX limit two aboms? 04:01:46 Seems like it should be something like 5 or 6 04:02:57 Finding the weapon for the first time the dancing weapon is initialized would be a fragile hack. So there's probably no easy fix for the incorrect "comes into view" message if a weapon is spawned in sight. 04:03:16 (from placement syntax, not casting) 04:04:30 actually, does tukima's machine generate incorrect messages? 04:04:33 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:04:50 qoala: There are incorrect messages for monsters given fixed equipment created in sight of you, even if they are not dancing weapons 04:04:57 ah 04:05:09 Since the itemspec hands it to them later, it appears 04:05:18 They will say they are weilding their normal gear 04:05:29 yeah, so that's a can of worms I'm not likely to fix right now. 04:05:30 Normally this is only an issue in wizmode, though 04:05:54 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:05:57 but triggered placement of monsters that can wield items will be bugged. 04:06:22 though most triggered placements generate non-item-using monsters. Which is good. 04:06:22 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:06:41 Is there a convenient way to send a wizmode character to Tukima's studio? 04:07:12 I want to confirm that the machine actually generates improper messages. 04:07:41 I think that might be the only existing non-wizmode case. 04:08:03 It appears to generate correct ones 04:08:34 But probably it doesn't spawn them using vault syntax 04:08:40 But just generates a random dancing weapon 04:08:47 no, I think it spawns using vault syntax 04:08:57 but it doesn't specify the weapon 04:09:20 so the weapon generated randomly by the initial attempt ends up being the final weapon. 04:09:42 So this problem only actually occurs in wizmode 04:10:07 Well, the problem occurs when a monster is specifically given items using vault syntax 04:10:18 yeah 04:10:20 (And created in the player's LoS) 04:10:31 Which a vault theoretically COULD do, but I don't know of any that do 04:10:41 mhm. And the monster type naturally spawns with a weapon. 04:10:49 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:10:50 -!- heteroy__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:11:12 So if we spawn a zombie with a weapon, the "comes into view" will not include the weapon, but be otherwise sensible. 04:11:26 hypothetically. I don't think any of the rising zombies actually get weapons. 04:12:04 Now what was I doing before I got side tracked? Oh yeah, making spectral weapons placeable for monster. 04:12:28 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:12:29 -!- heteroy__ is now known as heteroy 04:12:39 So as it currently stands, the only things not set for spectral weapons are speed and damage. 04:14:14 It's probably best that the speed is absurdly high, since it only attacks with the owner. It's speed should be high enough to keep up with its owner. 04:14:40 Actually, I think it currently will lag behind a finessed-q.blade user at fixed speed 25. 04:15:11 Should that be changed? 04:15:23 Bah, I keep pressing &^C by accident instead of ^C 04:15:24 And crashing 04:15:29 -!- Datul has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:42 hah, so the trap is working :) 04:16:12 wait, does &^C actually generate the sigint? 04:16:20 qoala: Well, can the weapon be given a fixed quantity of energy whenever the user attacks? 04:16:34 &^C causes a deliberate crash, yes 04:16:38 qoala: should SIGABRT 04:17:08 -!- snwl|2 has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 04:17:32 DracoOmega: maybe? I'm not sure how speed leads to monster energy actually 04:17:57 raise(SIGABRT); abort(); 04:18:31 qoala: Well, their speed is the amount of energy they get per 10 aut, and move/act normally cost 10 energy 04:19:02 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:11 Does that mean there's some point at which energy is just added to the monster's tank? So if we just add energy in an unexpected part of the code, it won't overwrite it? 04:20:56 No 04:21:11 monster->speed_increment is its energy pool 04:21:21 You can add to it freely whenever you want, and this basically works as expected 04:21:29 (Or subtract) 04:22:02 ah, ok. So we could give the weapon a free 10 energy whenever the owner attacks. 04:22:25 Well, that would cause it to move faster if it wasn't adjacent to you when you were attacking something, I guess 04:22:33 yeah 04:22:37 (I really OUGHT to look at the relevant code) 04:22:55 Alternately: there's already code that limits it to a single attack per owner attack, yes? 04:23:30 yes 04:23:39 Perhaps just make its attacks cost no energy at all, then? 04:23:48 hmmm.... 04:24:51 but it will have to consume the energy in order to complete the handle_monsters phase. 04:25:14 Then if the player attacks at finesse-q.blade, it won't gain enough energy to actually attack, right? 04:26:09 Currently, I needed a slight hack that if it doesn't have permission to attack, it consumes energy as if an attack occured. Otherwise I ran afoul of the infinite loop detection because it wasn't using its energy. 04:27:11 Having it consistently be sufficiently fast at all times might be easier to understand than granting it bonus energy when its owner attacks. 04:27:31 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:29 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2006-g1ac67ab: Fix a typo in Kikubaaqudgha's name. 10(85 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1ac67ab6609c 04:28:31 Well, monsters cannot be effectively faster than speed 30 04:28:31 ah 04:28:31 Like, you can raise their speed above this, but it basically does nothing 04:28:31 and 30 isn't sufficient 04:28:31 Due to how energy is capped 04:28:59 Well, given that it will be faithfully following right behind you at all times (or have no path to do so if you have lots of other summons in the way). An energy boost on owner attack would likely not be too noticable. 04:29:03 Well, you could make its action cost really low, no? 04:29:07 -!- Tollymain has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:29:27 Hmmm... I guess that wouldn't do anything, though 04:29:33 Since it would still need to burn off the rest of its energy waiting 04:29:34 So action cost dropped, so that its effective speed is really high? 04:29:54 Well, maybe not now, no 04:30:20 Yes, with action cost dropped, you could make its effective attack speed much higher than 30 04:30:25 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:30:33 Well its standard behaviour is supposed to be: follow owner. If owner attacked and can still attack the target, follow target. Attack target once, then wait patiently in place. 04:31:06 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:22 I think the bug with SW targetting a player's ally is in the state we use for "wait patiently in place" defaulting to pathing to player if hostile. 04:31:50 It's mostly in mon-behv.cc:handle_behaviour at line 266 04:32:15 The property state changes are handled in functions at the end of spl-summoning.cc 04:33:23 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:33:35 When its owner calls fight_melee, the SW is triggered, getting a 'ready' flag. When it attempts to attack (in fight_melee), it clears its own ready flag if possible, or wastes energy doing nothing otherwise. 04:33:47 This last step is done in confirm_attack 04:35:06 Currently it never resets the ready flag, except via attacking. Since it needs to catch up to attack, I wasn't sure if it should immediately be cleared on the player's next turn, as battlesphere does. 04:36:12 I think this means that a blocked spectral weapon, suddenly given an available path will carry out a single prepared attack even after a significant delay 04:36:29 -!- eurtek has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:37:17 Error (dc-mon.txt:478): couldn't load image 'spectral_SPEAR'. 04:37:45 qoala: I think that probably feels a little odd - the delay bit, I mean 04:38:09 qoala: Battlesphere has code to clear its ready flag if it hasn't had a chance to fire by the time the player's NEXT turn rolls around 04:38:29 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: bye bye] 04:39:39 I noticed that, but wasn't sure if a SW might need the extra time to reach its target sometimes, unlike the battlesphere. Also given that its on the *player's* next turn, monster SW (and possibly battlesphere?) might lose attacks? 04:39:40 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:40:57 Well, I realize that SW needs to move to attack, but battlesphere actually needs to move to attack often, too. If they're fast enough, they should be able to do some moderate repositioning and still attack in one turn 04:41:26 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2007-g9abb773: Fix build: use the correct file name for spectral spear. 10(72 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9abb773f6a5e 04:41:28 but why should they get free turns? 04:41:40 using same rules as any other monster would seem the best to me 04:41:51 But the other difference is that a melee character can attack faster than 10aut 04:42:08 without haste 04:42:10 so can a monster 04:42:31 if the player's speed is different than the monster, they will never be in sync, and I can't see why they should 04:43:11 A spell user always gives the battlesphere at least 6-7aut in which to move and attack. A melee character might leave as little as 2aut, I think? 04:43:49 A quick blade is 0.3, so with finesse I might guess it could even be 0.1 sometimes 04:44:04 weapon speed is capped 04:44:26 Are you saying finesse doesn't actually double quick blade speed? 04:44:37 Well, the 2 familiar spells are supposed to trigger once on each of the owner's triggering actions. Normal monster speed is less applicable. 04:45:18 I guess SW probably should reset though. It's okay if it doesn't get in the first attack, as long as it's later in position to get all subsequent attacks. 04:45:34 DracoOmega: it never did; weapons of speed are worse than twice the speed 04:45:48 ??speed[2 04:45:49 speed[2/4]: Because of mindelay rounding, speed brand increases effective damage by +50% on short blades, whips, spear, +80% on demon blades, tridents and some junk, +58% on everything else. 04:45:54 -!- Vesto has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:19 Interesting 04:46:31 Well, finesse is not the same as speed brand 04:46:51 speed brand aside, the effective weapon's speed is capped at 3 04:47:11 then, after taking into account haste and finesse, the final speed is capped at 2 04:47:19 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:47:24 Should SW and battlesphere state reset on the player's turn regardless of owner? I can add SW resetting, but I'm unclear on why they reset when they do. 04:47:54 qoala: Well, I think there are some issues with battlesphere timing (especially for monsters) since the changes to how monster turns are processed 04:48:07 I haven't gotten to look into that yet, but I should not that monsters which use battlesphere actually exist 04:48:26 Since I believe you can actually sometimes dodge their shots by moving, and the following turn they will aim at where you were before 04:48:48 oof 04:49:57 Well, I've been doing my best to not preclude monster SW as I reworked its AI. 04:50:03 not sure monster tengu need to exist, now that they have no native place to live 04:50:32 I'll just copy battlesphere's timing for now. We can change both later as needed. 04:50:56 could be reduced to just recolouring/showcase vault dummies again; this would sidestep your problems 04:51:09 Well, I think reavers are actually decent monsters 04:51:34 Did we make a zig floor that places Tengu casters? I can't remember if there's a "generic conjurers" floor. 04:51:50 I hardly mind trying to fix the timing issues with the spell 04:52:12 not that different from two random conjurers 04:52:37 deep dwarf monsters are not quite a success either 04:54:18 Well, they have a few spells that are uncommon, move faster than normal, have better melee than most monsters with good ranged attacks - I think they're a decent latergame threat 04:56:10 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:35 a lot of spellcasters have haste, and some are fast naturally, too 05:02:00 At the very least I think we can see how they play where they are for a while 05:04:40 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:06:48 let's see... same as spriggans 05:07:12 or deep elves, or (mostly) draconians, for that matter 05:07:41 -!- wolfram has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:09:16 dat/descript/items.txt: No description for item 'book of battle' 05:09:32 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:10:52 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2007-g9abb773 (34) 05:12:24 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2008-g8356037: A mandatory quote for water nymphs. 10(46 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=835603786c72 05:21:13 Ah. After the special casing allowing a spectral weapon to get a single item in a mons spec, the problem was that the 'give a random appropriate item' code didn't have a case for spectral weapons. They would then die of not having a weapon in the initial monster creation. 05:22:26 Ah. Sounds simple enough, then. 05:23:22 -!- dcss83732 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:01 Hilarious. The so-created hostile spectral weapon paths to me (further confirming my issues with the concept of 'stay still' for hostile monsters) then sits around once in range. 05:24:29 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:50 -!- DarkMatt has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Pale Moon 20.1/20130518142809]] 05:26:27 of course, until I migrate the initialization code to somewhere dgn_place_monster can access, it has the stats from mon-data.h, rather than stats feasible from any power level. 05:29:37 Let's ignore speed for the moment. Should I leave damage as is? Dancing weapons apparently get double the base weapon damage. SW currently gets only the base weapon damage. Changing this is a buff that SW possibly doesn't need. 05:31:08 What bonuses does it get for weapon skill again, now? 05:31:29 HD = weapon skill 05:31:39 that's actually the only one left 05:31:46 now that defenses are based on spell power 05:32:57 It's HP is manually set based on spell power, and it's magic immune, so I believe only to-hit is affected by HD? 05:33:21 is there anything else affected by HD? 05:34:07 hmmm... it also lacks M_FIGHTER. I can't tell if that's intentional or an oversight. 05:34:58 Probably that is the only thing relevant here, yes 05:35:34 It's hard to say whether it could use a damage boost or not without testing, but my initial reaction is that base damage alone on a lot of things would be pretty piddly 05:36:02 And the SW isn't just a free bonus either, due to the damage sharing 05:38:21 Well, even with just the base damage, it's a very noticeable buff at least through lair. Though it's possible I didn't notice that it wasn't as effective vs death yak/elephant AC. 05:39:32 It provides a little extra vulnerability, but largely can be considered a multiplier to damage. I admittedly didn't get too much testing vs high-AC targets, though. 05:41:40 One good example is that I feel able to take on ogres as soon as I get it castable. By this point, my standard skilling order has at least 6 skill (often more) in my weapon. 05:42:09 Hmmm... well, I can't really give any specific comments on that front without trying it 05:42:46 I can leave it's current damage in place until we get more data. Then we can reevaluate it later. 05:46:27 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 05:46:48 That seems reasonable to me 05:47:56 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:51:01 I wonder if DjSk shouldn't get unrecommended. At least two of spells don't work, and third has calls for removal. 05:53:41 I assume spirit shield doesn't work. I guess infusion would be kind of horrible even if it did. What one has calls for removal, though? 05:54:03 regen 05:54:44 infusion works: it's pretty good at killing you 05:54:53 I tried it once during testing. Infusion was an even more hilarious way to kill oneself than the 'DjFE cast itself to death' 05:55:12 I vote for unrecommending it 05:55:28 Regen has calls for removal? >.> 05:55:46 DracoOmega: for Dj 05:55:49 Oh 05:56:13 I think balancing glow could improve matters, though 05:56:23 I am inclined to agree 05:56:31 Like, in the more general sense 05:56:39 they're ridiculously invulnerable to glow glow, while hunger glow is good enough or perhaps even too big 05:57:08 so folks keep running around hasted for ages 05:57:09 I've heard most people that have commented say that they basically never get mutations 05:58:05 the glow bar tells you when it's safe, yeah 05:58:26 I actually think it's worth considering making EP 1-to-1 for spells, since spell starts struggle quite a lot with their initial EP pools (and it's odd that spellcasting backgrouds should be rough for a magical race) and making glow a more heavy componant of their spellcasting routine. 05:58:49 I heard one amusing story that someone got temporary evolution causing permanent mutations. Given that evolution is "good", this is probably really rare. 05:59:54 DracoOmega: eh? Dj spellcasters are pretty strong. 06:00:40 Well, I have heard it said repeatedly that a lot of caster starts are extremely hard on djinn, due to half-killing yourself with casting 06:00:54 they had problems when EP regenerated like HP (ie, really slow earlu on), but that's no more 06:01:47 I suppose it's possible a change to regen rate might have affected this - I am not sure how much I heard was before or after, since I wasn't paying close attention, admittedly >.> 06:02:03 But I thought some were fairly recent 06:02:08 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2009-gd24a36b: Unrecommend DjSk. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d24a36bb0bde 06:02:20 perhaps Infusion should be straight-on banned? 06:02:25 (I haven't actually played one myself, so I can't offer a personal opinion here) 06:06:24 I think that once you have enough EP to cast spells without killing yourself, infusion is safe. 06:06:56 The only downside is no offensive actions other than evokables can be used without draining EP until it wears off 06:08:26 I'd leave infusion castable. It's initially sub-optimal rather than outright impossible. I see no reason they can't use their magical essence to power attacks. 06:09:53 -!- datgum has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:10:27 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:18:10 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:20:14 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:20:47 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:23:09 -!- crate_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:33 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:27 GhSk start with potion of berserk rage by Grandiloquent Gentleman 06:27:27 shift 'letter' does not exclusivly select skills for index higher than 26 in skill menu by Grandiloquent Gentleman 06:28:31 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:36 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:35:18 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:35:36 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:36:31 I belive mantis 7254 is a duplicate of 7172? 06:42:19 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:42:36 woo! I can now place a spectral weapon with the same stats as if it were casted! 06:42:36 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:04 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:45:34 !messages 06:45:34 (1/1) |amethyst said (9h 8m ago): the clan rebuild trigger gives em "Could not lock /home/crawl-dev/dgamelaunch-config/locks/crawl-update.lock: someone is already updating the crawl build" but I don't think anyone is 06:47:59 !tell |amethyst how do I add dev accounts again? 06:48:00 TZer0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 06:49:50 TZer0: Possibly someone else has mentioned this, but Clan seems to have some issues with ttyrecs? At least I tried to play one and it didn't pull the right thing (or ended too soon or something) 06:52:01 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:52:42 useless check in religion.cc by Grandiloquent Gentleman 06:52:52 <|amethyst> TZer0: dgl admin add username 06:53:32 <|amethyst> TZer0: err, under sudo 06:56:20 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:57:22 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:57:26 DracoOmega: I'm not sure exactly what's causing this. 06:57:29 It seems very strange 06:57:49 Are you aware of it, then? 06:58:05 I don't know too many details, but when I mentioned my issue earlier today, others said they'd had some trouble with it too 06:58:16 <|amethyst> TZer0: what's the cron job you're using to compress the ttyrecs? 06:58:36 Well, I did get a ttyrec of the right player 06:58:43 But not at the right time (or it ended early) 06:59:06 <|amethyst> !lg clan -tv 06:59:07 No games for clan. 06:59:10 <|amethyst> !lg * clan -tv 06:59:11 4168. shade, XL2 DjFE, T:825 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 06:59:21 0 * * * * nice -n 10 ionice -c 3 sudo /home/crawl-dev/dgamelaunch-config/bin/dgl compress-ttyrecs 06:59:50 <|amethyst> yeah, that sounds fine 07:00:15 Well, that looked right 07:00:26 <|amethyst> !lg * clan xl>10 -tv 07:00:27 314. oinker, XL16 LOFi, T:33551 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 07:00:28 Let me find what it was I tried earlier 07:00:42 <|amethyst> this one is wrong 07:01:21 Yeah, he's 5 xls off 07:01:32 Unless he finds like 5 !exp at once in the next few turns :P 07:01:46 <|amethyst> !lg * clan xl>10 -ttyrec 07:01:47 314. oinker, XL16 LOFi, T:33551: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/ttyrec/oinker/ 2013-06-24.15:12:51.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-25.07:18:27.ttyrec.bz2 07:02:25 So 07:02:29 how do I debug this? 07:03:22 <|amethyst> !lg oinker clan lofi x=rstart,rend 07:03:22 2. [rstart=2013-06-24 15:12:54 [20130524151254S];rend=2013-06-25 11:28:38 [20130525112838S]] oinker the Tortoise (L16 LOFi), worshipper of Okawaru, blasted by a starcursed mass (accursed screaming) on Abyss:1 on 2013-06-25 11:28:38, with 134399 points after 33551 turns and 4:15:58. 07:03:40 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:59 <|amethyst> !lg oinker clan lofi x=tiles,rstart,rend 07:04:00 2. [tiles=true;rstart=2013-06-24 15:12:54 [20130524151254S];rend=2013-06-25 11:28:38 [20130525112838S]] oinker the Tortoise (L16 LOFi), worshipper of Okawaru, blasted by a starcursed mass (accursed screaming) on Abyss:1 on 2013-06-25 11:28:38, with 134399 points after 33551 turns and 4:15:58. 07:04:33 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:38 <|amethyst> figuring out whether it's an issue with webtiles only or also DGL would help 07:04:51 <|amethyst> !hs * clan !tiles 07:04:52 224. kryft the Archmage (L27 DEWz), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2013-06-25 08:46:43, with 1873198 points after 123909 turns and 10:33:08. 07:05:01 <|amethyst> !hs * clan !tiles -tv 07:05:02 224. kryft, XL27 DEWz, T:123909 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 07:05:33 <|amethyst> this one looks wrong too 07:06:18 <|amethyst> !hs * clan !tiles -ttyrec 07:06:19 224. kryft, XL27 DEWz, T:123909: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/ttyrec/kryft/ 2013-06-23.08:14:07.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-23.12:44:52.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-23.13:12:04.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-23.16:15:43.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-23.18:34:52.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-23.18:47:33.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-23.19:03:30.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-23.19:15:12.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-23.21:07:37.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-24.06:50:16.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-24.09... 07:06:27 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:14 but how should I do that exactly? 07:09:10 <|amethyst> not sure 07:09:16 <|amethyst> hm, all the ttyrecs seem cut short? 07:10:14 <|amethyst> the preceding ttyrec 2013-06-24.23:23:00.ttyrec.bz2 doesn't end at the same place as 2013-06-25.07:36:22.ttyrec.bz2 begins 07:11:32 <|amethyst> likewise the one before that 07:12:49 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 07:13:50 <|amethyst> even the very short ttyrecs don't seem to line up with adjacent ones, so it's not just multi-megabyte ttyrecs 07:13:59 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:22 That is just strange 07:14:28 |amethyst: by how much? 07:14:46 Shall I try disabling the cron-job 07:14:47 ? 07:14:48 IIRC bzip2 uses buffers around 900KB 07:15:08 or actually, it wouldn't fail this way, so this might be earlier corruption 07:15:21 could you take a look at non-bzipped ttyrecs? 07:15:40 <|amethyst> that involves finding some created in the past hour 07:15:44 I'll disable the cronjob.. 07:16:03 This should give us sufficient data. 07:16:27 <|amethyst> kilobyte: in kryft's game, 2013-06-24.19:57:50 (27094 bytes uncompressed) ends at time 86043.2 07:17:37 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:18:04 <|amethyst> kilobyte: the next one, 2013-06-24.22:21:31.ttyrec (4379313 bytes uncompressed) starts at 94174.2 07:18:29 <|amethyst> and ends at 99925.0 07:18:59 <|amethyst> kilobyte: the one after that, 2013-06-24.23:23:00.ttyrec, starts at 103505.1 07:19:13 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:20:29 -!- NekomimiRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:21:12 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:35 <|amethyst> kilobyte: they are stopping mid-frame (not unexpected) 07:22:14 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:23:01 Spectral Weapon fixes (AI resetting, placement for monster utility, etc) by qoala 07:23:34 Okay. It depends what exactly monster needs to do with a spectral weapon after creating it, since the AI is dependent on having an owner, but one should be able to spawn a freestanding SW with the patches I provided. 07:28:29 Um... it seems that Infusion gives the monster you hit 10 energy whenever you hit it 07:28:38 wait, what? 07:28:47 defender->as_monster()->speed_increment += 10; 07:29:02 And indeed, stuff is swinging at me twice when I hit it with this 07:29:40 I can't see what else this could be trying to accomplish? 07:29:44 I can't believe I never noticed that 07:29:53 Hey, I guess mumra didn't either? 07:29:54 I have no idea what that's doing there 07:30:25 I only noticed it then because I was working on the monster battlesphere bug and did a check for speed_increment 07:30:29 I'm more disappointed that in weeks of testing, I didn't notice monsters attacking twice when I buffed myself. 07:30:32 Haha 07:31:31 sweet bug 07:31:59 So the patch I just submitted adds a reset to spectral weapon that mirrors battlesphere. If you fix something with monster battlesphere's timing, it probably needs to go on spectral weapon too. 07:32:01 if it was still strong like this, it must be simply incredible with the bug fixed 07:32:32 qoala: Yes, the timing issues at the moment are a bit... sticky 07:32:37 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2010-g5476c2e: Fix Infusion granting a free turn to any monster you hit with it. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5476c2e176bf 07:32:43 Well, the end result of the bug was that both sides were suddenly very dangerous to each other. 07:33:02 Yes, I actually think the effect could be kind of interesting on something more deliberate 07:33:12 <|amethyst> odd 07:33:19 late game though, you would be getting a small benefit and they'd get a large one. 07:33:52 Yes, not on THIS. But it might be sort of interesting if there was a spell or effect that was doubled-edged in that same sort of sense 07:34:16 <|amethyst> that line was added in a merge 07:34:27 <|amethyst> %git b5f3816a 07:34:28 07lain * 0.13-a0-1429-gb5f3816: Merge remote-tracking branch 'qcrawl/newskalds-qoalamod' into newskalds 10(12 days ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b5f3816a7c5c 07:34:34 <|amethyst> it's not in either parent of that commit 07:34:35 "finally, a way to nerf haste while still letting people like it: make it infectous" 07:35:38 that's not at all where I'd expect a bug like that to appear. :\ 07:35:41 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 07:36:20 So does anyone her know what the monster utility actually requires of a monster to get its stats? 07:36:39 s/her/here/ 07:36:41 <|amethyst> qoala: it creates the monster a bunch of times, and asks one of those to do its mon_special_ability a bunch of times 07:37:01 so melee damge doesn't require actually being able to attack? 07:37:23 <|amethyst> let me double-check 07:38:03 <|amethyst> it should not 07:38:17 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=monster-trunk.git 07:38:44 <|amethyst> you can try building it yourself (you want branch bleeding-edge-crawl, which is the default) 07:39:16 -!- NekoRex has quit [Quit: "All the vain and ignorant will look up and shout 'Save us!', and I'll look down and whisper... 'Nyo.'"] 07:39:38 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:49 wait, how do I use it? 07:41:26 <|amethyst> you run it and give a monster name 07:42:09 <|amethyst> !tell Medar a problem with webtiles: everyone gets just "Loading..." 07:42:10 |amethyst: OK, I'll let medar know. 07:42:28 <|amethyst> !tell Medar < bd-> it's sometimes not loading jquery before main scripts 07:42:29 |amethyst: OK, I'll let medar know. 07:42:51 <|amethyst> !tell Medar reloading enough times fixes it 07:42:52 |amethyst: OK, I'll let medar know. 07:43:21 Is it separate from the actual crawl process then? 07:43:50 <|amethyst> qoala: yes, but it links against most of crawl's object files 07:44:29 I'm possible too sleep-deprived at this point to comprehend how to build and run a new program. Am I downloading it's source into a separate folder? Or somehow putting the two repos together? 07:45:57 <|amethyst> qoala: you put it in a separate directory and give it a copy of the crawl source in a crawl-ref subdirectory 07:47:16 <|amethyst> qoala: the monster makefile will build crawl (with a few flags like NO_LUA_BINDINGS=y) 07:47:32 <|amethyst> qoala: probably you could point it at an existing build of crawl so you don't have to rebuild 07:48:34 Is it safe to just soft link my existing crawl-ref folder into the monster-trunk folder? 07:49:18 <|amethyst> qoala: it will still rebuild your copy of crawl with some flags you probably don't want on the main build, but yes 07:49:37 so just make clean in between runs 07:49:42 <|amethyst> you can probably get around that by editing the monster makefile and removing the dependency on 'crawl' 07:50:04 <|amethyst> qoala: probably wouldn't even need make clean, since crawl's Makefile detects when flags have changed since the last build 07:50:12 <|amethyst> oh 07:50:23 <|amethyst> don't run 'make clean' from monster though 07:50:29 <|amethyst> that will do an update of crawl 07:50:39 <|amethyst> which probably isn't good if you have local changes 07:50:58 <|amethyst> I don't know why that's under make clean... 07:51:43 okay. Thanks for the help. Now to see if my changes allow getting spectral weapon stats 07:52:57 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:54:02 oh right, without using my usual make flags alias, I don't use the -j option. 07:56:01 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:57:10 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:06:07 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:18 <|amethyst> !tell Medar figured it out... the servers didn't have the changes to client.html because the update scripts avoid copying the templates directory 08:08:19 |amethyst: OK, I'll let medar know. 08:08:47 |amethyst: so monster needs to be updated, so that MONS_SPECTRAL_WEAPON also trips the 'generated' flag. 08:09:09 Morning 08:09:12 <|amethyst> TZer0, joosa: could you update /crawl-master/webserver/templates/client.html from latest trunk (the scripts don't do it automatically but it's needed for an update) 08:09:14 otherwise, my patch on mantis enables monster to properly work with spectral weapon 08:10:15 <|amethyst> qoala: oh, I guess chimerae probably need that too 08:10:20 <|amethyst> err, chimeras 08:10:54 yeah, that's likely 08:11:14 goblin, rat, ball python chimera (06H) | Spd: 10-30 | HD: 1 | HP: 1-16 | AC/EV: 8/5 | Dam: 4, 3, 2 | Res: 06magic(4) | XP: 1 | Sz: small | Int: animal. 08:11:14 <|amethyst> %?? chimera 08:11:16 |amethyst: Yeah, I noticed they don't get copied by the scripts. Copied them manually and forgot to ask about it 08:11:19 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:11:21 Will do now 08:11:39 <|amethyst> joosa: I should probably update those scripts to copy most of the templates 08:11:49 without it, the AC/EV use the mon-data.h values, rather than what's actually generated. Possibly other stats too? 08:12:06 <|amethyst> joosa: the problem is that the header and footer are used for server-specific announcements 08:12:19 <|amethyst> joosa: so shouldn't be overwritten; but it was easier to omit the whole directory 08:12:28 <|amethyst> qoala: I think just those two 08:12:30 goblin, rat, ball python chimera (06H) | Spd: 10-30 | HD: 1 | HP: 1-16 | AC/EV: 1/11 | Dam: 4, 3, 2 | Res: 06magic(4) | XP: 1 | Sz: small | Int: animal. 08:12:30 <|amethyst> %?? chimera 08:14:09 |amethyst: I updated the build 8 hours ago, was there some more recent and urgent change? 08:14:14 I'll just rebuild 08:14:26 <|amethyst> joosa: if you did it manually already then it's fine 08:14:47 <|amethyst> joosa: I thought maybe rhf just hasn't updated yet and that was why it wasn't broken like the rest :) 08:16:16 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 could you update /crawl-master/webserver/templates/client.html from latest trunk (the scripts don't do it automatically but it's needed for the require.js update) 08:16:17 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 08:18:25 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:19:55 15hrs since newskald merged and the only mantis tickets for it are a bug that predates the rework (skalds got !berserk in trunk a while ago) and my patch enabling spectral weapons to be placed by monster. They're going to find the bugs while I'm asleep aren't they. 08:20:59 15 hours isn't much time for that :) 08:21:03 But don't worry, there are bugs in everything 08:21:12 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 08:24:54 -!- Zermako has quit [] 08:25:23 |amethyst: Indeed my webtiles was doing what CLAN is doing now, so I poked at random things to make it go away! 08:25:33 some hours ago 08:28:26 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:44 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2010-g5476c2e (34) 08:29:26 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:31:39 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:36:15 qoala: what's the point of the potion of berserk in the first place? 08:36:51 It actually was put in with a +1 weapon for skalds some months ago, while the spells were still just ideas 08:37:00 the +1 weapon was removed, but the potion left in. 08:38:23 It could possibly be removed. It's certainly still useful for some early tight spots to have it available, but they probably don't need it anymore. 08:39:09 It's probably a fault of mine, but I never really used berserk potions until I started testing newskalds 08:39:52 <|amethyst> %git 5ab375c 08:39:53 07elliptic * 0.13-a0-366-g5ab375c: Give Skalds a +1 weapon and a potion of berserk rage to start. 10(2 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5ab375cf0153 08:43:00 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Sleeeep] 08:54:39 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 08:58:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:58:49 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:53 I am running into an upper limit of ferocity with lair zigs chimera, sigh 09:00:20 -!- Grunt_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:57 not that it isn't fun to have a tentacled monstrosity-brain worm-red wasp, an ancient bear-quicksilver dragon-unseen horror, and an apis-ghost moth-jumping spider mixed inbetween the eight dire elephants and five hellephants 09:04:23 tenofswords........ 09:04:33 can we have a rule whereby no vault chimerae 09:04:45 elliott: this is zig:24 09:04:59 tenofswords. 09:05:10 this is zig:24! 09:05:14 today zig:24, tomorrow lightli_chimeras 09:05:36 what dev would be stupid enough to allow lightli vaults using chimeras to get in 09:05:39 ... 09:05:42 Not I 09:05:42 ahem 09:09:04 at any rate an ultimatum of "zigs and extremely rare hells/pan spawns and that's it" has already been proposed in the past 09:10:08 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:11:46 -!- marcmagus has quit [*.net *.split] 09:11:46 -!- G-Flex has quit [*.net *.split] 09:11:46 -!- iasov has quit [*.net *.split] 09:11:47 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 09:11:47 -!- Kaput has quit [*.net *.split] 09:11:47 -!- Grunt has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:54 -!- Ragnor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:06 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:08 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 09:13:28 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:24 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:49 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:50 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:16:25 -!- pelotron_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:16:35 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:25 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:24:19 What OS is CAO running? the dcss_scoring code has unix/linux specific python commands in it and if i am going to build a dev VM i would rather just match the distro it is going to run on 09:25:10 <|amethyst> Debian Wheezy 09:26:50 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: bye] 09:27:00 <|amethyst> what's Linux-specific? 09:27:53 elliott, if it'll help appease your concerns, I will listen to any thoughts on my current draft of a list of parts in http://sprunge.us/SDEY 09:28:02 <|amethyst> I see a number of Posix-specific things, but those should work with e.g. cygwin Python 09:30:36 fctnl functions 09:30:47 crawl-util 09:30:58 -!- marcmagus has quit [*.net *.split] 09:30:58 -!- G-Flex has quit [*.net *.split] 09:30:58 -!- iasov has quit [*.net *.split] 09:32:10 was trying to rund the scoresd.py to get some data into my local DB and it failed to import fctnl 09:32:47 |amethyst: Everything fixed now? 09:33:44 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:00 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 09:35:10 -!- inpho has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:35:25 <|amethyst> Medar: TZer0 still needs to fix it on CLAN, but otherwise yes 09:35:36 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:37 Ok, nice. 09:35:55 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:36:14 Yeah, if the template isn't updated jquery doesn't get priority while loading, and might load too late 09:37:11 first zig:24 tomorrow Grunt * 0.13-a0-366-g5ab375c: New Chimera unique, Hell. (1 min ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5ab375cf0153 09:37:47 am more shocked about reverting over 1500 commits to do that 09:38:05 that's what you're going to cause 09:38:15 including the chimera commits 09:38:18 on the other hand, that probably won't be a bad thing 09:38:41 hey, dracoomega has at least done a good job, and newskald is in 09:39:08 this may not exactly wash the taste of previous forest incarnations out of people's mouths or deal with the tangled mess that is djinn but 09:40:03 -!- Sky2 has quit [Changing host] 09:40:04 what about gargoyles 09:40:16 -!- darktwinge has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:30 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:31 the less I think about that the healthier I stay 09:41:12 what a good time for me to have a coughing fit 09:41:20 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:19 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:51:27 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:27 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 09:51:27 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 09:51:28 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:43 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:52:49 -!- Xiberia_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:52:49 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:53:19 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:56:35 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:59:28 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:17 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:06:48 -!- magic_points is now known as magicpoints 10:07:38 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:58 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 10:09:10 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:12:16 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:13:19 |amethyst: how do I do that? 10:13:19 TZer0: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:13:22 !messages 10:13:23 (1/1) |amethyst said (1h 57m 6s ago): could you update /crawl-master/webserver/templates/client.html from latest trunk (the scripts don't do it automatically but it's needed for the require.js update) 10:14:25 -!- Grunt_ is now known as Grunt 10:15:12 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:37 nvm. 10:17:53 -!- snwl|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:18:27 !tell |amethyst I think I've fixed it. 10:18:28 TZer0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 10:21:00 It's still using the old version. 10:22:26 <|amethyst> TZer0: yeah, it's still the old version 10:22:41 -!- lainiw has quit [Quit: woo] 10:28:24 Well, I think I have a fix for the battlesphere timing bug 10:28:50 I think I will take a look at and rebalance monster battlesphere power while I'm at it 10:29:01 Too tired to do that or push now, though :P 10:29:21 The battlesphere tickles you. 10:30:16 One niggle that I can see is making monster battlesphere relevant for late-game monsters without making early conjurer ghosts too terrible 10:31:23 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:31:50 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:53 -!- Ahrin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:03 spells don't need to do that 10:32:08 -!- snwl has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 10:32:08 Because a first glance at the formula suggests that is likely true 10:32:17 Don't need to do what? 10:32:35 be dangerous at all points 10:33:03 Well, if the only monsters who can CAST it are later game here, then possibly it ought to be relevant on them 10:33:46 well probably you shouldn't worry about it then 10:33:53 there are lots of awful ghost spells 10:35:05 In any case, I will give the matter some more thought when I am awake enough again, and for now I am going to sleep 10:35:34 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:44:04 -!- Stendarr has quit [Client Quit] 10:44:37 -!- Grimalki1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:45 -!- Chousuke has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:45:21 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:01 -!- Zaba_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:27 -!- wheals has quit [*.net *.split] 10:46:29 -!- Helmschank has quit [*.net *.split] 10:46:30 -!- oberstein has quit [*.net *.split] 10:46:32 -!- Porost has quit [*.net *.split] 10:46:32 -!- twzt has quit [*.net *.split] 10:46:33 -!- Grimalkin has quit [*.net *.split] 10:46:34 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 10:46:34 -!- Kalma has quit [*.net *.split] 10:46:44 is sojobo intended to spawn in tomb? 10:47:19 DracoOmega reset his spawn depth to match Frederick's, so probably. 10:51:21 -!- Zaba_ is now known as Zaba 10:51:34 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:02 -!- Grimalki1 is now known as Grimalkin 10:59:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:00:11 -!- neuwiz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:01:11 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:01:38 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:01:48 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:03:07 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:17 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:04:42 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:35 |amethyst: I'm working on an another patch that changes the client.html template 11:09:46 Since that went so well :p 11:12:31 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:12:55 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:59 -!- Keskital1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:33 -!- Slowpoke_Man has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:36 -!- Pacra___ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:34 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:20:46 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:20:57 -!- ekix has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:20:57 -!- kryft has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:21 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:29 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:38 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:38 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:42 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:43 -!- Kaput_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:49 -!- Rjs has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:22 -!- odiv has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:29 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2010-g5476c2e (34) 11:23:06 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:17 <|amethyst> Medar: updated the install script in CSZO and CAO 11:23:19 Well that was fast 11:23:51 -!- kryft has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:29 Certainly no rush to get this patch in, need to make it work first anyway :p 11:24:31 <|amethyst> TZer0, joosa: a new commit in my dgamelaunch-config repo to update client.html on trunk update: https://github.com/neilmoore/dgamelaunch-config/ 11:25:31 <|amethyst> TZer0, joosa: there's another commit just beneath that that switches default back to trunk, but you don't need that one. The one you need is f507acb4e7 "Copy webtiles client.html on trunk install." 11:26:31 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:28:51 wow, that Infusion bug 11:28:51 mumra: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:30:23 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:43 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:30:59 -!- Melum_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:33:02 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:44 which apparently wasn't exactly a biug 11:34:34 oh wow 11:34:47 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:51 good feature to stop the spell being overpowered??? 11:37:23 Lava orc temperature applies while polymorphed by infiniplex 11:39:14 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:40:29 MarvinPA: that was certainly was lainiw was testing it as, though he left it in by accident i think :) 11:43:50 did lethal infusion get changed dramatically or is this a new spell named infusion 11:44:11 -!- WildSam has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:44:17 it's a new spell 11:44:52 could do with a different name then 11:45:18 probably a bunch more lethal than lethal infusion too, if giving monsters free turns was needed to try and balance it! 11:45:18 yeah possibly 11:45:30 song of infusion 11:45:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:48 perfect 11:45:56 reverse antimagic 11:48:00 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:39 -!- AriaB has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:53 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:28 -!- AriaB has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:45 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:39 "melodic infusion" 12:01:55 or "harmonic infusion" 12:06:24 -!- Melum_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:06:51 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.2-9-gf1dcfd2 12:07:41 -!- johnny0_ is now known as johnny0 12:09:11 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:26 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2011-g022f7ff: Update Box of Beasts due to war dog removal 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=022f7ff42bf9 12:12:33 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2010-g5476c2e (34) 12:12:50 -!- Ragnor has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:12:54 -!- AriaC has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:04 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:13 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:10 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:30 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:21:49 -!- AriaB has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:52 -!- Slowpoke_Man has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:59 -!- mason- has quit [*.net *.split] 12:22:00 -!- Furril has quit [*.net *.split] 12:22:01 -!- Eldarby has quit [*.net *.split] 12:22:02 -!- mumra has quit [*.net *.split] 12:22:05 -!- cptwinky has quit [*.net *.split] 12:22:06 -!- atomicthumbs has quit [*.net *.split] 12:22:06 -!- djanatyn has quit [*.net *.split] 12:22:18 -!- Yll has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:23:44 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:41 fr:change all instances of 'hostile enchantments' in descriptions to 'hexes' 12:26:01 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:26:34 seriously, I though hostile enchantments are called hexes and friendly enchantments are called charms 12:26:38 *thought 12:26:55 or is it possible to resist enemy charms? 12:27:16 like if someone tries to haste you to make you starve 12:27:18 I dunno 12:29:22 The spell is already kind of weak because it eats up all your mp if you try to fight multiple enemies that aren't orcs. 12:29:24 <|amethyst> well, not all hostile enchantments are hexes 12:29:30 <|amethyst> petrify, for example 12:29:36 <|amethyst> or polymorph 12:29:55 mutagens are surprisingly mr-skipping however 12:30:31 <|amethyst> pain, for that matter 12:30:33 because it's not a hostile enchantment to make you grow an extra arm so that your armor sucks 12:31:46 <|amethyst> nor is it a hostile enchantment to cover you in flames 12:34:24 Covering you in napalm seems a bit different from making you grow an extra arm. 12:34:34 In that the napalm is magically physical. 12:35:11 mr protects from napalm? 12:35:16 <|amethyst> it does not 12:35:23 also, polymorph is a hex 12:35:28 ??polymorph 12:35:29 polymorph[1/5]: Gives you a random form, usually bad, and changes monsters into other monsters, likely to be harder, but without equipment. 12:35:34 ??polymorph spell 12:35:34 I don't have a page labeled polymorph_spell in my learndb. 12:35:34 <|amethyst> oh, so it is 12:36:06 darkli (L22 LOBe) ASSERT(wp->sub_type == WPN_BLOWGUN) in 'throw.cc' at line 864 failed. (Forest:3) 12:36:07 Polymorph is a hex, yes. 12:36:14 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:14 neqoxec (133) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 15 | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(48), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 183 | Sp: malmutate, brain feed, minor demon | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 12:36:14 %??Neqoxec 12:36:17 what just happened 12:36:32 <|amethyst> Lightli: darkli (L22 LOBe) ASSERT(wp->sub_type == WPN_BLOWGUN) in 'throw.cc' at line 864 failed. (Forest:3) 12:36:39 oh 12:36:39 <|amethyst> !lm darkli crash -log 12:36:39 26. darkli, XL22 LOBe, T:60098 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/darkli/crash-darkli-20130625-173605.txt 12:36:42 malmutate isn't because we need more stuff alike to hellfire and torment 12:36:56 -!- kryft has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:37:08 <|amethyst> Or fire or ice 12:37:16 oh so my shield of reflection broke the game 12:37:28 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:32 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2012-ge7a2ba6: Remove a useless check (#7256) 10(36 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e7a2ba69b835 12:38:32 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2013-g11b27dd: Don't start Sk with a potion of berserk rage 10(31 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=11b27dd3204d 12:39:33 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:41:40 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:53 large shield? 12:42:48 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:09 <|amethyst> Lightli: hm... it doesn't happen on reflections usually 12:43:31 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:43:37 <|amethyst> oh 12:43:42 <|amethyst> I can with paralysis 12:44:45 <|amethyst> paralysis, sleep, confusion, slow, (sickness), frenzy 12:45:15 <|amethyst> hmm... wonder if there's any way to get the original agent 12:50:20 <|amethyst> oh, beam_source is still there 12:50:24 <|amethyst> should be fixable then 12:56:40 Medar: have you noticed this bug where dialog windows don't disappear? 12:56:43 -!- mumra_ is now known as mumra 13:02:34 -!- sbanwart has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:04:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:04:47 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2014-g5898b77: Don't allow creating spectral weapons from special unrands 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5898b77cf4df 13:05:45 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:05:52 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Iceweasel 21.0/20130515140136]] 13:07:23 -!- dcss26744 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:07:45 -!- Melum_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:08:54 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2015-g9f05881: Don't crash on reflected needles. 10(5 minutes ago, 3 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9f0588190d30 13:08:54 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2016-g98e7e58: Fix an obsolete comment. 10(60 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98e7e5828658 13:10:13 |amethyst: well you can still clone artefacts! i guess it's more "never accurate" than "obsolete" since you can tukima artefacts too :P 13:12:27 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:31 <|amethyst> yeah 13:12:34 <|amethyst> lag 13:17:31 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:08 -!- mizu_no__ has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:29:58 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:17 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:49 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:04 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:43 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:50 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:32 -!- Shade_Tornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:37 -!- Voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:19 -!- odiv_ is now known as odiv 13:50:35 -!- Cheese is now known as Guest60159 13:50:37 -!- Rebenga has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:51:18 -!- Guest60159 is now known as carbonpot 13:52:21 -!- carbonpot has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:19 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:54:11 -!- Node_043 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:56:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:04:21 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2017-ga1e108d: Clarify the reason for Spectral Weapon to not work on special unrands 10(32 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a1e108d6b5d3 14:09:46 -!- DSMo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:10:44 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:10:59 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2018-g616bb86: Consistent spelling of artefact 10(39 seconds ago, 6 files, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=616bb8654442 14:13:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:14:33 -!- CarbonPot has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:17:06 -!- dcss70883 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:54 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:27:12 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:27:34 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:34:31 -!- sbanwart has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:34:40 -!- axlexk has quit [Client Quit] 14:36:27 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:03 -!- CarbonPot has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:47:45 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Quit: Specialization is for Insects] 14:48:49 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:10 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:49:25 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:25 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:51 -!- |amethyst has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:55:53 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:20 what weapons does Spectral Weapon not work with? 15:00:30 Lightli: good question 15:00:52 maybe those commits can tell us? 15:01:45 -!- lainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 15:02:02 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:52 oh, so no Sword of Jihad 15:04:49 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:11:02 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [] 15:13:22 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:16:41 weird trample behavior with permaflight and lava by reid 15:17:26 -!- lainiw has quit [Quit: woo] 15:20:50 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:21:03 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:21:36 -!- Keskital1 is now known as Keskitalo 15:23:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:27:57 basically any with really special effects i think 15:36:53 <|amethyst> anything that has custom code 15:37:13 <|amethyst> we 15:37:14 <|amethyst> well 15:37:26 <|amethyst> I guess that's not necessarily completely true 15:37:57 mumra: For the summoning cap, don't the caps for the high-level summons need to be 2-3 times higher? 15:38:11 where's the summoning cap? 15:38:14 gammafunk: yes, i need to tweak this a bit 15:38:24 i don't know about 2-3 times higher for *all* of them though 15:38:26 is it on the devwiki or in trunk yet? 15:38:36 Lightli: "summonscap" branch 15:38:55 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=log;h=refs/heads/summonscap 15:39:16 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:39:33 mumra: I'm not sure how one will effectively be able to use, say, XXX with only 4-6 summons; are you thinking a summoner would need multiple high-level summons? 15:39:50 multiple high-level summons spells, I mean 15:40:03 In which case there can be a problem with having enough spell levels 15:40:50 A high level conjurer will usually have an L9, and and L6 for their conjurations; are you thinking a summoner would need a similar setup? 15:41:15 why would you put a cap in for summon butterflies 15:41:16 gammafunk: yes, that's the point 15:41:22 using a combination of high- and mid-level summons 15:41:29 rather than just spamming a singular "best" summon 15:41:42 Yeah, then I guess that could work pretty well; tbh I'd probably just go with XXX and dragon :) 15:41:56 although the need for sustainab complicates that a bit 15:41:56 I notice that haunt is unaffected by this change 15:42:02 yes, but at least you'll be thinking about which XXX you want 15:42:33 Lightli: haunt being anchored to a single target gives it a slightly different balance mechanism 15:42:40 oh 15:42:54 gammafunk: also, the dragon limit might stay quite low; 5 dragons is quite a lot really 15:43:10 mumra: Yeah, I guess you are limiting the total number of summons as well 15:43:20 at the moment there's no actual "total" limit 15:43:21 5 sounds like more than enough for high level spells, yes 15:43:56 I can't parse this table 15:44:11 MarvinPA: summon horrible things already creates a lot more than that in a single cast; what do think should be done with that? 15:44:27 Lightli: ??? it's spell type, limit, timeout duration 15:44:49 Aboms are much less powerful than dragons, but monstrosities are on-par with dragons certainly; maybe add more variety to XXX? 15:44:51 this is like the most simplest table in the whole of crawl to understand ;P 15:44:57 well sht is another weird one because of the difference between monstrosities and large abominations, yeah 15:44:59 so you can have a maximum of 2 dragons, 2 horrible things, 3 ugly things, 2 greater demon... 15:45:13 I vote that butterflies has no limit either 15:46:00 There are a bunch of new abyss enemies, for instance 15:46:31 most of those aren't really appropriate for player summons 15:46:39 this does make a pure summoner much weaker from what I can tell 15:47:00 Lightli: do you consider summoners underpowered as is 15:47:04 no 15:47:45 gammafunk: once the caps are in place, it's much easier to improve individual summons of course, some spells can be made stronger if needed and there's an in-place balance mechanism 15:48:35 -!- WildSam has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:48:36 Lightli: the game isn't intended to support "pure" playstyles anyway; you can try and go down that route but it should be harder than diversifying 15:48:58 ??hybrid 15:48:58 hybrid[1/5]: You bash things AND cast spells! Wow! 15:49:03 wow 15:49:47 this does mean that MuSu is dead 15:50:00 so glad I got that one out of the way then 15:50:04 mummies have always been dead, by definition 15:50:15 hehe 15:50:34 mumra: By pure do you mean one attack school? A conjurer-mage that doesn't melee is certainly well supported in crawl 15:51:07 it's not well supported; without defences at least it's pretty hard, and you're much better off with a weapon to hit stuff with as well 15:51:10 MP isn't infinite 15:51:24 ok, well it IS infinite 15:51:42 no, after so many turns the world ends 15:51:45 ghost moths, silent spectres, not having to rest forever every time you see an ogre mage band or orc knight band 15:52:08 Well, I'm not saying you have 0 dodging, 0 armor or anything, but conjurers that never train weapon skill are very common and quite successful in the game 15:52:14 varied resistance checks across fire and ice 15:52:34 yes and they're crippling thmselves not picking up a single weapon and training 12 weapon because their player is stupid or it's a felid 15:52:40 gammafunk: my first wins were like this, yes; the game got much easier once i realised i could use a weapon too 15:52:41 Often if they do train weapon, they do it while in post-game 15:52:58 I thought the game was over when you won 15:52:59 how much does (averaging, fine, but) 12 weapon skill take 15:53:01 My DEFEs pretty much never bother with weapons, and my DDEE win didn't bother outside of the Sword of Jihad 15:53:08 gammafunk: this is a case of people not knowing how to play, rather than these character builds being intentionally supported or recommended 15:53:36 ...not meaning to sound too harsh when i say "not knowing how to play" and i did just say that this used to be me as well :P 15:53:38 you see enhancer staves have extremely good melee because mages are supposed to 15:53:45 throw said staves 15:53:47 mumra: There's a lot of pretty advanced players that don't really bother with melee as a mage; by focusing on magic you're extremely effective 15:53:57 pretty advanced? 15:53:59 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:04 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 15:56:05 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 15:56:11 Granted, they won by spamming dragons 15:56:17 which is what's about to get nerfed into oblivion 15:56:40 extremely difficult to pass by on bolt of fire, delayed fireball, and eventually firestorm, yes 15:56:47 one of the more famous challenge builds 15:57:08 My first few DEFEs didn't even use Bolt of fire 15:57:10 mumra: Well, the conjurations you use keep changing as you progress, and you're stuck using just one kill spell as a mage 15:57:36 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:36 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 15:57:37 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 15:57:44 (hint: this is satisfying, efficient, quick, and amusing) 15:58:13 gammafunk: exactly, this means summoners have to use *other* summoning other than dragons 15:59:04 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 15:59:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 15:59:09 nobody doubts that pure conjurer has it's benefits 15:59:21 gammafunk: yes, and playing as a "pure" summoner will now be more interesting and challenging 15:59:27 it certainly don't see a problem here 15:59:28 mumra: think it's related to sending all the info on joining 15:59:30 tenofswords: I think mumra might doubt it :) 15:59:37 pretty sure it could happen for the player when spectator joined too 15:59:38 it also makes MuSu go from broken to challenge 15:59:38 I was going to follow up with 15:59:51 but now the player doesn't get those extra packets when that happens, so that should be gone 16:00:04 -!- lasserith has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:00:04 <|amethyst> does anyone have something they'd like to push to a branch? 16:00:09 <|amethyst> For Chei testing? 16:00:09 "there is not a single build in crawl except for maybe dumb felids that doesn't benefit more from and get to see the richer side of crawl melee than 16:00:19 |amethyst: an existing branch or a new one? 16:00:21 my words are just spilling out because this! 16:00:23 is stupid! 16:00:25 <|amethyst> mumra: existing 16:00:45 going back to mh3u 16:00:59 |amethyst: pushing more summoner nerfs ;) 16:00:59 <|amethyst> though that reminds me, I should fix the way Chei handles new branches 16:01:03 <|amethyst> :) 16:01:14 so when is the cap going to get nerfed 16:01:14 er, added in 16:01:29 Lightli: maybe today if people are happy with the limits after i tweak them 16:01:54 mumra: What are you thinking for XXX limit? 16:02:25 I say the limit should be casts, not individual monsters 16:02:35 Lightli: that's complicated and obscure 16:02:39 oh 16:02:40 with monsters you can see the effect 16:02:48 and you can cast again to replace old / damaged monsters 16:02:58 s/with monsters/with numbers/ 16:03:36 I understand, although I feel that summon butterflies shouldn't be limited because it's not exactly going to kill things 16:03:50 -!- wheals_ is now known as wheals 16:03:51 what's summon butterflies limited too? 16:03:58 8 atm 16:03:58 Butterflies just make Lightli very happy, that's all 16:04:03 that's dumb 16:04:06 summon butterflies could be limited to 0 alternatively 16:04:07 it totally breaks the spell 16:04:31 ??summon butterflies 16:04:31 summon butterflies[1/5]: L1 Summoning, in the books of Beasts and Party Tricks. Summons 3+random2(3)+random2(POW/10) (max 15) butterfly meatshields. Very useful. As with any summons, they will only appear in visible squares no more than 2 away from you and not blocked by a (translucent) wall. 16:04:36 Whereas abominations and tentacled monstrosities are the things that really cheer me up 16:04:47 It can summon theoretically nearly double that in one casting 16:05:08 and a cap of 8 sounds perfectly fine if it really does need to continue existing 16:05:35 <|amethyst> 25 power cap sounds reasonable for an L1 spell 16:06:02 Lightli: if i set the butterfly timeout slightly higher, then you could get 15 for 2 or 3 turns but it would quickly whittle down to 8 16:06:11 ok I'm fine with that 16:06:16 so it'd be short-term useful but not so OP 16:06:34 it's kind of ridiculous that a level 1 spell is considered so useful 16:07:01 <|amethyst> swiftness is only L2 :) 16:07:07 did someone say apportation 16:07:11 we could just make butterflies a level 2 spell 16:07:12 <|amethyst> that too 16:07:20 ??summon horrible things 16:07:22 <|amethyst> confusing touch 16:07:22 summon horrible things[1/1]: Level 8 summoning spell, produces large abominations and tentacled monstrosities. Has a 1/5 chance to drain intelligence by 1d3 points. Affectionately known as XXX. 16:07:45 <|amethyst> though I don't think I've used it since it was nerfed 16:07:45 what would be the new L1 spell if apportation wasn't L1? 16:08:03 ERROR: no desc for item name 'book of Battle'] 16:08:17 interesting description 16:08:17 whoops 16:08:26 |amethyst: chei didn't seem to pick up those commits at all? 16:08:36 <|amethyst> hm 16:08:38 why does crawl not report such problems at startup? 16:08:39 apportation is weird in that it's useless early on and only useful later on 16:08:40 <|amethyst> %git summonscap 16:08:41 07mumra * 0.13-a0-2013-ga9e96cb: Expire off-level temporary summons 10(28 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a9e96cb073dd 16:08:54 Lightli: yeah 16:09:06 <|amethyst> SamB: checking every possible item for existence in the DB? seems like it would be a bit slow 16:09:07 that's why I asked what's the new L1 spell 16:09:29 i'd say blink but that would be op 16:09:45 indeed, blink would be OP ;-) 16:09:49 <|amethyst> mumra: is there supposed to be something newer? 16:09:58 <|amethyst> mumra: if so, I'm not seeing it either 16:10:00 ??portal projectile 16:10:01 portal projectile[1/2]: Teleports a fired (wield launcher) or thrown missile directly to its target, greatly increasing its accuracy (but not damage). Has many interesting tactical uses, e.g. hitting the orc priest hanging out behind the pack. Does not pass (transparent) walls. It is the rough opposite of apportation, in that it can also fire whatever wherever whyever. 16:10:10 what level is that again 16:10:30 <|amethyst> l2 16:10:41 |amethyst: oh right did you change chei to not report branches? 16:10:46 can we swap that with apport 16:10:46 <|amethyst> mumra: no 16:10:53 <|amethyst> mumra: to not report them in ##crawl 16:10:56 <|amethyst> mumra: hopefully 16:10:57 portal projectile would be fun as a level 1 spell to be honest 16:11:01 <|amethyst> %git summonscap 16:11:02 07mumra * 0.13-a0-2013-ga9e96cb: Expire off-level temporary summons 10(30 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a9e96cb073dd 16:11:19 |amethyst: where does it report them then 16:11:27 <|amethyst> SamB: here 16:11:28 |amethyst: that's what i just pushed but chei didn't report it here 16:11:37 <|amethyst> mumra: you didn't just push that 16:11:44 who did then? :P 16:11:48 <|amethyst> err 16:11:51 <|amethyst> wait 16:11:53 28 minutes ago 16:11:53 oh for some reason I had chei mixed with Henzell ... 16:11:59 -!- Wolfram_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:12:01 <|amethyst> nm, commit date isn't the push date 16:12:15 <|amethyst> that just means you haven't retouched it 16:12:17 <|amethyst> hm 16:12:28 i pushed that when you asked for people to push things 16:12:41 <|amethyst> I guess it's broken then :) 16:13:39 ??djinn 16:13:40 djinn[1/3]: Player species with hellfire (total fire) immunity, rN+++, rC-, high fire aptitude, and a single weird pool (essence) from which they draw both mana and health. 1 MP costs two essence. They have no hunger bar, but pay hunger costs through glow, which only gives them weird temporary mutations. !!Djinn is plural, djinni is singular!! 16:13:51 is that MP:HP ratio still correct? 16:13:57 probably 16:14:05 :-( 16:14:21 <|amethyst> kilobyte says it's not a problem with the increased regen rate 16:14:34 oh 16:14:40 <|amethyst> that was some time back though 16:14:44 didn't hear about that 16:14:49 <|amethyst> the increased regen rate, that it 16:16:26 <|amethyst> %git 8a5cac0 16:16:26 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-1362-g8a5cac0: Scale early Dj regen. 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8a5cac0290d9 16:16:29 so what do we think of swapping apport and portal projectile? 16:17:10 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 16:17:26 well that doesn't really do anything to apportation, seems sort of pointless 16:17:41 it's a buff to portal projectile though 16:17:54 since you need high tloc for it anyway 16:18:05 and thus makes Arcane Marksman better 16:18:12 well really I just think Apport is a stupid starting spell 16:18:52 does AM actually start with portal projectile now or something 16:19:06 they certainly didn't when I played it 16:19:09 ??arcane marksman 16:19:10 arcane marksman[1/3]: A Hunter with magic, or a Skald with a bow. Or a crossbow, or some javelins. Starts with an average ranged weapon and a {Book of Debilitation}. 16:19:15 ??debilitation 16:19:16 I don't have a page labeled debilitation in my learndb. 16:19:22 ??book of debilitation 16:19:22 book of debilitation[1/1]: Corona, Slow, Inner Flame, Enslavement, Cause Fear, Leda's Liquefaction 16:19:27 or not 16:19:28 no 16:19:32 see, you'd think they get it, but they don't 16:19:56 that sounds like a shoe-in for AM though 16:20:02 apportation is a good spell with -some- tactical implications at least 16:20:47 L1 portal projectile in the warper book might let them use a ranged option sort of reliably, if that's what you were suggesting 16:21:12 oh yeah it was warpers that had it, not AM 16:21:36 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:36 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 16:21:37 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 16:22:49 combos well with ranged attacks obviously, also a few other things 16:24:50 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:53 |amethyst: i have another commit ready if you want me to test again 16:24:58 <|amethyst> mumra: sure 16:25:29 <|amethyst> %git summonscap 16:25:30 07mumra * 0.13-a0-2014-ge94b031: Report MB_SUMMONED_CAPPED in more contexts 10(83 seconds ago, 1 file, 12+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e94b031b5b60 16:25:38 <|amethyst> nope, still broken 16:26:28 <|amethyst> oh duh 16:26:44 <|amethyst> I promise I know perl 16:27:51 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:51 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 16:27:52 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 16:28:33 <|amethyst> I haven't even been doing much shell programming recently, but still I wrote $@ instead of @_ twice 16:28:53 -!- ZeSprigganBeggin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:29:12 hehe 16:31:19 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:32:12 -!- pantaril has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:39 New branch created: cheitest (0 commits) 16:33:37 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:33:39 cheitest? 16:33:49 are you guys overhauling chei? 16:34:06 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Quit: Cheibriados] 16:36:20 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 16:36:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 16:37:02 03|amethyst 07[cheitest] * 0.13-a0-2020-ge0e70ff: A test, please ignore. 10(16 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e0e70ff52809 16:37:12 <|amethyst> finally 16:37:30 quick 16:37:36 remove felids in that branch 16:37:42 (I'm joking) 16:37:45 * Grunt removes Lightli. 16:38:22 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:27 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:45 ow 16:39:14 <|amethyst> now to wait for a master or stable push to make sure that part still works 16:39:27 * Grunt pushes |amethyst. 16:39:28 <|amethyst> I suppose I could find a bug to fix 16:39:29 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 16:39:37 Maybe I'll make a really minor change I've been meaning to do for a while. 16:39:41 * |amethyst falls 16:40:20 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:40:23 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-2019-gc32c622: Brace fixes. 10(23 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c32c622934e0 16:40:35 ... or kilobyte can do something :b 16:41:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: thanks :) 16:41:47 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 16:41:53 -!- dcss71752 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:44 <|amethyst> okay, pushed to the chei repo. Any future bugs I'll have to take the blame for instead of rewriting history :) 16:43:11 <|amethyst> also 16:43:18 03mumra 07[summonscap] * 0.13-a0-2017-gdf55e7a: Report summons limit in spell descriptions 10(6 minutes ago, 3 files, 16+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=df55e7acf305 16:43:18 03mumra 07[summonscap] * 0.13-a0-2018-g84a0dcb: Add missing cap for Call Canine Familiar 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=84a0dcb06bab 16:43:18 03mumra 07[summonscap] * 0.13-a0-2019-g8f257af: Updated changelog for summons changes 10(54 seconds ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8f257afba082 16:43:19 <|amethyst> %branch summonscap 16:43:19 Branch summonscap: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=log;h=refs/heads/summonscap 16:43:29 haha 16:43:32 <|amethyst> err 16:43:36 it looked like you summoned the summons commits 16:43:38 <|amethyst> just to be clear :) 16:43:41 <|amethyst> %branch summonscap 16:43:41 Branch summonscap: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=log;h=refs/heads/summonscap 16:43:54 <|amethyst> it doesn't actually look up the branch or anything 16:44:00 <|amethyst> %branch haha chei is stupid 16:44:00 Branch haha chei is stupid: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=log;h=refs/heads/haha chei is stupid 16:44:15 so when does this get pushed 16:44:24 * Lightli is pushed 16:44:28 wow chei doesn't even know to escape the spaces, that IS dumb :P 16:44:29 <|amethyst> didn't you already ask that? 16:44:42 i'm not sure, i could push it now, does anyone wanna test it first? 16:45:09 i still haven't done improved stair following for _permanent_ summons which i'd also like to do 16:45:17 but otherwise the nerfs are complete 16:45:24 ok I can wait for that 16:45:32 how long would that take 16:45:38 i don't know if i'll do it now, it's pretty tricky 16:46:15 I gleefully await seeing tavern erupt in flames over summoning being nerfed this hard 16:46:18 * Grunt nerfs mumra. 16:46:34 Tavern erupts over just about everything. <_< 16:46:52 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:16 remember, up to this point summoning has basically gotten slaps on the hand 16:51:32 Yes, I'm counting the LOS nerf as a slap on the hand because you could still summon an army of dragons and not care 16:51:44 well these changes have been discussed at length many times, and notably in a really recent thread, and nobody has cried about it 16:52:02 What was our final cap on XXX? I need to know 16:52:08 i upped it to 8 16:52:21 presumably these have romm to get adjusted later because trunk anyway 16:52:23 You're gentleman and a scholar, mumra 16:52:24 and changed it so that the smaller ones are more likely to get overwritten than the big ones 16:52:25 room* 16:52:31 <|amethyst> mumra: the people who read those threads and the people who play the game are not necessary the same set :) 16:52:52 |amethyst: oh, i know, i am certainly expecting some kind of backlash :) 16:53:03 mumra: link to the thread? 16:53:09 <|amethyst> I should find something to nerf and get in on the fun 16:53:16 Lightli: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8428 16:53:18 thanks 16:53:34 |amethyst: Nerf all instances of perl by replacing it with python! 16:53:39 mumra: summon hydra is also missing there 16:53:43 |amethyst: it's got to be more fun upsetting people than just having everyone go "oh the new skalds are awesome!!" 16:53:45 Hey MarvinPA, 16:53:47 !lg * ktyp=spines 16:53:47 1. Yllodra the Grappler (L9 TrMo), worshipper of Zin, impaled on a porcupine's spines on Lair:1 on 2013-06-24 19:53:48, with 2925 points after 5986 turns and 0:40:59. 16:53:52 (just noticed that) 16:53:55 haha nice 16:54:08 impaled on spines, dang 16:54:13 MarvinPA: thanks (i'm sure i can remember including them, when did they disappear?) 16:54:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:20 i guess dracoomega gets the real credit for making the formulae actually sensible 16:54:22 summon hydra isn't really a summon spell, it's a conjurations disguised as summons 16:54:27 gammafunk: that would be a severe nerf 16:55:01 is 3 hydrae good? 16:55:21 kilobyte: I keep trying to pretend I live in a world where perl doesn't exist, but perl keeps existing 16:55:22 3 hydra is good, yeah 16:55:26 mumra: i don't see hydra in the initial implementation 16:55:34 <|amethyst> I like python too 16:55:41 and probably 3 is fine 16:55:44 I had some strange ideas about summon hydra while I was contemplating this the other night. 16:55:45 MarvinPA: no, it got lost before my first working commit i think 16:55:46 <|amethyst> but I'm better with Perl, and Ashenzari was written in Perl anyway 16:55:48 aha 16:55:53 ...like, limit it to one hydra, and have it grow more heads on recast <_< 16:56:00 haha 16:56:01 they last about 5 seconds anyways so it's not like it matters 16:56:08 i could make the summons cap prefer to time out ones with less heads 16:56:25 which would achieve a similar thing 16:56:30 mumra: Just make summon hydra occasionally make a hydrataur 16:56:51 gammafunk: the main reason is, python is quite unlikely to be installed on most platforms 16:56:54 gammafunk: we have chimera; why does the hydrataur not exist yet 16:57:08 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2020-g358542f: Idiomise an artefact wield message. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=358542fc0760 16:57:23 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:51 yay devastator 16:57:55 03mumra 07[summonscap] * 0.13-a0-2020-g99a2546: Add missing hydra cap (MarvinPA) 10(58 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=99a254631447 16:57:57 You know, I wonder if some of those messages should be db-ified. 16:57:57 kilobyte: Yeah, perl is so ubiquitous 16:58:16 gammafunk: Ubuntu always has is, Debian has it pulled by desktop installs. On the other hand, only some BSDs install without perl by default. 16:58:30 a - the cap of the Hydra 16:58:33 about the only "problem" with the summon nerf is that they aren't going to be good against panlords or the like anymore 16:58:41 kilobyte: Not to mention the issue of python2 vs. python3 16:58:50 i think dragons + XXX will still be good against pretty much anything 16:58:51 (taking msysgit as the Windows setup, as that ships the toolchain) 16:59:09 at the very least, you'll need something other than summoning to off Cerebov/Antaeus/etc. 16:59:18 mumra: Yeah, I think with the nerf, I can still try my summoning speed runs in trunk 16:59:28 What, you can't kill Cerebov with Summon Ice Beast? 16:59:29 also, their "batteries included" philosophy, which means "no modularity, no small installs" 17:00:20 try to kill Cerebov with 3 ice beasts 17:00:45 You can kill cere with summons if you have good channel, although it'll be harder now 17:00:47 a bit hard to summon ice beasts fast enough even currently 17:00:50 Most probably just juke the rune anyways 17:01:14 I thought most would just sic a horde of dragons on him 17:01:43 gammafunk: 8 XXX is possibly still a bit too much unfortunately 17:02:06 although i'm quite interested in how it would work out if caps start low at low power, and can be a bit higher at very high power 17:02:18 how much does summon horrible things summon anyways? 17:02:26 so by the time you can sustain 8 XXX they're no longer so useful anyway 17:02:42 Is the average in fact three? It's called XXX because it tends to make three X-glyphed monsters 17:02:51 Lightli: up to 8 of each kind (big/small) if i'm reading it correctly 17:03:00 hmm 17:03:00 1 tmons would be more interesting 17:03:15 so just summon horrible thing? 17:03:17 i.e. X? 17:03:33 <|amethyst> mumra: is CCF uncapped? 17:03:45 Lightli: oh wait i am reading it wrong 17:03:49 |amethyst: no, i fixed that 17:03:54 I kind of like that XXX is about making more summons in general, as opposed to one very powerful one like dragon or greater demon 17:04:04 %git 84a0dcb 17:04:04 07mumra * 0.13-a0-2018-g84a0dcb: Add missing cap for Call Canine Familiar 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=84a0dcb06bab 17:04:25 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:28 gammafunk: yes, i think it's nice to have that variation between spells 17:04:29 and even the large abominations are pretty good 17:04:33 large abomination (04X) | Spd: 6-12 | HD: 11 | HP: 32-67 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Dam: 40 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(102), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 740 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 17:04:33 %??large abomination 17:04:40 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:47 40 damage and up to 12 speed is not bad in bulk 17:05:40 golden dragon (08D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 90-127 | AC/EV: 15/7 | Dam: 40, 20, 2007(trample) | see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(192), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 6013 | Sp: b.fire (3d27), b.cold (3d27), poisonous cloud (3d11) | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 17:05:40 %??golden dragon 17:05:48 tentacled monstrosity (03X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 23 | HP: 99-149 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 22, 17, 13, 903(constrict) | 05demonic, 10doors, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(153), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4204 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 17:05:48 %??tentacled monstrosity 17:06:07 The number of Xs made is dependent on spell power, or is it just the composition of monstrosities and the duration? 17:06:17 monstrosities are about on par with golden dragons if you factor in constricton 17:07:31 the real problem is that most of the high end summon spells have a drawback built in 17:08:13 eldritch tentacle is finicky with placement and has a cap of 1, greater demon has a chance to be hostile, and 1s will go hostile eventually, haunt has the single target lock and sickness, and xxx has int drain 17:08:19 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:22 Summon Dragons has no drawbacks 17:08:25 Lightli: eldritch tentacle isn't involved in the summons cap right no 17:08:37 hmm 17:08:43 it already has a cap of 1 to begin with 17:08:44 i guess that's obvious since it had a cap anyway :P 17:08:46 yeah 17:08:55 I think malign gateway just needs some reworking to be more useful 17:09:11 well it's possibly more useful now 17:09:14 elliptic, MarvinPA: you're proponents of simple+predictable autofight. I have an idea to rewrite both autofight and default spell targetting, but that would be hard if we had to support absolute rules (ie, always prefer a wounded ufetubi over hasted Cerebov, etc) 17:09:22 The nerd might help raise its popularity a bit, but it's still a hard sell for as many levels as it takes 17:09:27 if you can't have all the dragons you want, you might need to get out a tentacle now and then 17:09:31 the best I came up yet to make it simple would be to have the weighting use a float 17:09:33 eldritch tentacle (12w) | Spd: 12 | HD: 16 | HP: 99-141 | AC/EV: 13/0 | Dam: 3009(chaos), 4009(chaos) | 11non-living, 04eats corpses, amphibious, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 08acid+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 3181 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 17:09:33 %??eldritch tentacle 17:09:45 but that has not enough bits to guarantee every tier to trump the others 17:10:09 (unless lua can be told to use a bigger floating point type than float) 17:10:48 s/nerd/nerf/ 17:10:56 I wasn't calling mumra a nerd 17:10:58 just to be clear 17:11:06 "Summon Nerd" 17:11:39 mumra: What editor do you use? 17:12:02 Nivim: visual studio 2012 17:12:19 Nivim: Is your editor preference contained in your nick? 17:12:31 ... false alarm, it's only our lua interface that says the word "float"; Lua uses doubles only internally 17:12:46 gammafunk: By chance, yes. But I haven't made enough comparisons to really call it a preference. 17:13:18 * kilobyte hoped in Nivim's language "ni" is negation :p 17:13:23 Nivim: visual studio is really good now msvc compilation works properly, but you need vista+ 17:13:31 -!- eurtek has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:13:40 mumra: even worse, you need Windows! :p 17:14:19 kilobyte: i know, it's self-punishment basically 17:14:35 I still didn't got around to trying wine 17:15:03 * mumra is tempted to detonate this bomb now, and do any further balancing of specific summons later 17:15:23 your choice 17:15:24 mumra: does this cap apply to monsters too? 17:15:28 no 17:15:33 ugh 17:15:41 I hate even more special casing 17:15:46 oh no, players are not monsters 17:15:54 quick, lobotomize all crawl players 17:15:59 then we can install proper AIs 17:16:11 tenofswords: some behave quite monstrously 17:16:19 kilobyte: to apply it to monsters would require either a) lots and lots more special casing (in monster spells) or or b) rewriting the whole spellcasting system 17:16:46 -!- klz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:47 mumra: at the very least, I'd prefer if ZotDef summons were tied to their summoner's (curse skull, silver statue) LOS rather than to yours 17:17:03 kilobyte: actually the functions i've written could handle monster casters perfectly well, except for the fact that you can't look up a monster's summoner, which me and DracoOmega were discussing last night 17:17:24 (when was the last time zotdef was actually updated to not center on traps, or update monster wave contents to match current crawl contents, or) 17:17:28 mumra: save it by mid rather than name? 17:17:36 kilobyte: it's not saved by either 17:17:45 kilobyte: literally the summoner is not stored anywhere on the summon 17:17:53 except being written into the blame chain text 17:17:54 mumra: blame chain 17:17:55 <|amethyst> wait, how do blame chains work? 17:17:56 yeah 17:18:04 i wouldn't call that "stored" 17:18:09 it's more "referenced" 17:18:25 even if monsters had summon caps there is no end to scenarios that could place more summoners... 17:18:31 e.g. it tells you what type of thing summoned it, but not which specific one 17:18:35 storing it would be rather trivial... 17:18:41 mumra: Where can I see the final caps? 17:18:48 aren't summons incapable of summoning now? 17:18:54 <|amethyst> Lightli: no 17:19:01 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:19:02 no I don't mean that 17:19:03 <|amethyst> Lightli: they're incapable of raising dead 17:19:09 -!- marcmagus has quit [*.net *.split] 17:19:09 -!- G-Flex has quit [*.net *.split] 17:19:09 -!- iasov has quit [*.net *.split] 17:19:11 tenofswords: it would still limit summon spam 17:19:33 tenofswords: most summons either can't summon themselves or can summon only ufetubi 17:19:43 I'd personally prefer fixing monsters that rely solely on summons being in large numbers for threats 17:20:19 we have a lot of good examples of contextually changed summons now: spirit wolves, revenants, death mages, treants, 17:20:37 vampires... 17:21:07 crawl needs archviles 17:21:18 vampires lost vampire summon, yes 17:21:46 <|amethyst> gammafunk: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc;h=05898a4#l3097 17:21:51 mumra: Wow, you're leaving dragons at two? 17:22:19 dopplegangers 17:22:22 Eronarn: archviles don't summon 17:23:08 gammafunk: capping at two casts of a spell is actually quite reasonable 17:23:42 I question the position of level 9 for a cap of two 17:23:43 mumra: I suppose so, but two does seem quite low 17:24:20 tenofswords: if the aim is to prevent it being spammed, 3 casts would be like half your MP already 17:24:44 mp is infinite 17:24:54 plenty of ways to regain mp, yes 17:24:59 * kilobyte sics a siflich then a djinni at mumra. 17:25:04 haha 17:25:04 <|amethyst> MP flux is finite though 17:25:28 if I wanted to throw something at mumra I'd rather just use somebody with sublimation of blood and makhleb 17:25:44 <|amethyst> well, I guess with CBOE and high evo it might as well be infinite 17:25:48 tenofswords: the level of the spell should have nothing to do with the cap anyway 17:25:58 tenofswords: level of spell affects how powerful a single cast is 17:26:07 tending low so that the effects are more noticeable sounds much better here anyway 17:26:11 not like it's hard to change later 17:26:27 just doubting people going for summon dragon at all with this up 17:26:31 <|amethyst> mumra: it doesn't scale with power or skill? you mentioned that as a possibility in the thread? 17:26:46 |amethyst: not right now, no 17:26:54 Yeah, 4 make sense in my mind 17:26:54 but of course the strength/duration of summons already scales 17:27:09 4 dragons aren't exactly capable to taking down an entire army 17:27:29 |amethyst: also if the cap did increase, i'd have to do some sort of fuzzing (like i previously discussed) to avoid magic numbers 17:27:48 so it adds a lot of complexity, better to see if the simple fixed cap works first 17:29:26 gammafunk: i'm inclined to think powerful summons should have lower cap; the individual summons can be made stronger if this turns out bad 17:29:50 justification is "these are powerful intelligent beings and it's harder to control a lot of them at once" 17:30:08 mumra: Maybe we can get dragons equivalent to the player in dform 17:30:20 megadragons 17:30:28 summon dragon form transmuters of chei 17:30:54 summon dragon-only chimera 17:30:58 gammafunk: with one you'd win the game 17:31:43 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:31:59 summon dragons, use chimera-making spell to turn them into chimera, summon more to get past cap 17:32:23 what if there's a cap on chimeras 17:32:25 This could be a tricky to balance, since with conj the l-6 spells tend to be beam-targetted and the L9 AOE, so the mix of spells with different levels works nicely 17:32:40 -!- darktwinge is now known as Twinge 17:32:42 With summons, the L6 spells are basically just inferior to the current higher-level summons 17:32:48 ...refridge, chain lightning, 17:33:09 (ring of flames and delayed fireball) 17:33:37 ring of flames is more a charm, delayed fireball rather a special case 17:34:20 summ needs more spells that are effects that just happen to use a summoned creature to cause them 17:34:29 Eronarn: agreed 17:35:15 kilobyte: btw, do you have libc6-dbg installed? 17:35:20 would agree to the idea that it doesn't help summoning spells for the majority of them to be boring 17:36:08 battlefield control summ effects would be nice, for instance, smite target a creature and a summon appears at edge of LOS, zooms into that thing, constricts it, drags it away and fights it 1v1 17:36:13 (over the course of a few turns) 17:36:27 or 'wave of elephants' 17:36:37 SamB: yes 17:36:49 neutral elephants that just path through whatever in a stampede 17:37:06 03mumra 07[summonscap] * 0.13-a0-2021-gaba71e0: Give dragons a higher timeout 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aba71e080dff 17:37:36 that is awesome 17:37:57 -!- Pepe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:01 Now I want to summon elephants 17:38:13 Eronarn: so you point them in a direction? 17:38:21 heh 17:38:36 Lightli: i'm glad i wasn't the only one who thought that when i read it 17:38:39 kilobyte: could make it target, and then they go in the direction most of your enemies are in 17:38:51 feels like a kind of conjuration with different visual effects :p 17:39:04 it is, and that's okay 17:39:18 'slow conjuration that affects the battlefield more' is a fine summon 17:39:19 summon hydra is basically a conjuration too 17:39:23 I mean, without retargetting 17:39:24 and haunt 17:39:29 in fact that's pretty much what summons should be like 17:41:27 an army of elephants would make a nice level 6-7 spell 17:41:28 kilobyte: do you have any decent reproducer for these awful backtraces? 17:41:31 elephant (03Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 51-82 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Dam: 2007(trample), 5 | Res: 06magic(60), 12drown | XP: 431 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 17:41:31 %??elephant 17:41:40 red ugly thing (05u) | Spd: 11 (act: 110%) | HD: 8 | HP: 30-59 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 1204(fire:8-15) | 10doors | Res: 06magic(32), 05fire, 04napalm | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 342 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 17:41:40 %??red ugly thing 17:41:54 ??demonic horde 17:41:54 demonic horde[1/4]: Level 6 Summoning spell. Summons a lot of 5s, which will mostly be friendly. 17:42:05 it could scale up to dires, too 17:42:10 which are pretty beefy 17:42:14 dire elephant (02Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 89-133 | AC/EV: 13/2 | Dam: 4007(trample), 15 | Res: 06magic(100), 12drown | XP: 1616 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 17:42:14 %??dire elephant 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2021-g3273a34: A data indexer template 10(17 hours ago, 3 files, 52+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3273a34d9857 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2022-g178395b: Limit number of summons per spell type 10(16 hours ago, 4 files, 155+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=178395be99e9 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2023-gf4ea62d: Fix a bug and simplify 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f4ea62d10a39 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2024-gcf90cb5: Prevent temporary summons using stairs 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cf90cb503b9e 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2025-ga989e5d: Notify summon stair usage in monster description 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a989e5d4f72d 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2026-g7e50c85: Allow non-capped temporary summons to use stairs too 10(3 hours ago, 4 files, 23+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e50c859fae8 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2027-gcd5cde0: Notify which monsters are expiring due to the summons cap 10(2 hours ago, 4 files, 18+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cd5cde088e2b 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2028-g45ee3ac: Expire off-level temporary summons 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 15+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=45ee3ac0a293 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2029-g9c98223: Report MB_SUMMONED_CAPPED in more contexts 10(78 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9c9822334fcc 17:42:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2030-g34d2006: Tweak summon cap values 10(75 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=34d2006a2b85 17:42:33 ... and 6 more commits 17:42:35 (why are both elephants and dire elephants giant?) 17:42:37 Maybe a really low chance for hellephant? 17:42:48 dire elephants are uh...uglier but not much bigger? 17:42:54 uh oh 17:42:57 the bloodbath begins 17:43:11 oh yes 17:43:21 summoning is dead 17:43:27 er, summoning as we knew it 17:43:37 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:53 DracoOmega: welcome to the bloodbath! :b 17:44:05 hellephants is a bad idea 17:44:08 that makes the spell non-TSOable 17:44:15 ok 17:44:30 it also messes with flavor, there's no reason a spell would summon elephants sometimes and then also sometimes hellephants 17:44:36 So it seems 17:44:36 DracoOmega: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:44:49 good point 17:44:54 What are we talking about? Summon Large Mammals? >_> 17:44:58 elephant horde 17:45:05 Grunt: well of course it would be called that 17:45:15 basically summon a few elephants and they all charge in a direction of your choice 17:45:17 que trampling 17:45:25 Eronarn: I think your general idea of summons functioning as slower-acting conjurations that involve much short-lived summons could make summons more interesting 17:45:27 (i guess we could also add in rhinos and hippos as cosmetic renames) 17:45:31 Have it summon Ys. 17:45:36 Low spell power gives you sheep and yaks. 17:45:39 yaks don't trample though 17:45:48 Higher spell power gets elephants and death yaks and the occaional catoblepas. 17:45:49 Grunt: those are medium mammals 17:45:51 <_< 17:45:56 yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 27-54 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 205 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 17:45:56 %??yak 17:46:04 vs. elephant being giant 17:46:13 surprised we don't have rhinos as a monster yet 17:46:16 Hey, Large is large! :b 17:46:27 Large Mammal, not large mammal 17:46:51 a catlobe summ spell would be pretty neat 17:47:22 summon quadraped 17:47:27 If you follow a good god perhaps you get an apis now and again :b 17:47:32 what about one that summons various mythical-ish ranged monsters? a fire crab, a catlobe, etc. 17:47:51 fire crab would be op 17:47:57 yeah, I suppose :( 17:47:59 it would be like a burning cloud spell 17:48:12 we definitely need some turret summons though 17:48:15 i've wanted manticore for a long time 17:48:23 they have limited ammo already 17:48:37 manticore (05H) | Spd: 7 | HD: 9 | HP: 36-65 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 14, 8, 8 | 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 164 | Sp: spikes volley (2d10) | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 17:48:37 %??manticore 17:48:41 Currently they're also pretty lame 17:48:45 2d10 is kind of pathetic though 17:48:50 not at low levels 17:48:52 orc wizard (06o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-21 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 35 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, haste, blink / throw flame (3d5), confuse, invisibility, magic dart (3d4) / throw frost (3d5), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d5), magic dart (3d4), invisibility | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 17:48:52 %??orc wizard 17:48:59 a L3 spell to summon a manticore would totally be worth learning 17:49:24 Probably would need to be L4 or L5 17:49:27 there is an unusual lack of immobile summons 17:49:34 oklobs!!!!! 17:49:43 oklob would be a good summon but overlap too much with fedhas 17:49:48 that's not summons, that's fedhas 17:49:59 you grow the oklobs 17:50:15 a better summon: land kraken 17:50:17 lol 17:50:33 it's some sort of land cow! 17:50:34 summon archer statue 17:50:41 i was just thinking statues might be interesting 17:51:01 Magma Vent, makes temporary magma in an open area with some lava critters 17:51:26 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:31 ProzacElf: a high level summon that makes an adventuring party of statues would be awesome 17:51:35 mumra: Why are wargs at a higher tier in the box of beasts than wolves? They're generally weaker 17:51:39 Now with the cap, an L9 summon pan lord spell is interesting 17:51:44 random melee, archer, spellcaster, priest statues 17:51:44 Eronarn: that would be pretty sweet 17:52:12 gammafunk: summon XXX should summon weak-panlord-level Xs 17:52:27 much better than what it does right now 17:52:59 Eronarn: XXX is pretty effective right now; not as good as the uncapped dragon, of course 17:52:59 XXX = horrible things, right? 17:53:04 yes 17:53:16 gammafunk: it's too cool a spell to not make it summon something cooler though 17:53:19 just checking. i've seen that repeatedly and never been quite sure. 17:53:28 SamB: I'm afraid I don't :( 17:53:33 Eronarn: Agree it could use more variety 17:53:46 orb spider would be a neat summon 17:53:55 !send Eronarn a sack of spiders 17:53:56 Sending a sack of spiders to Eronarn. 17:54:20 eye of devastation would be another possibility 17:54:28 SamB: got an idea, though: instead of --no-save, I can run it from a script, append the script's pid to player's name, and save/reload every 1000 turns 17:54:35 eye of devastation (08G) | Spd: 7 | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 12/1 | see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx, 12drown | XP: 436 | Sp: b.energy (3d20) | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 17:54:35 %??eye of devastation 17:54:41 ^ not evil! 17:54:49 I've always been jealous of mnoleg having summon eyes and me not having it 17:54:52 DracoOmega: oh, that was my misconception (i was tired i think) 17:55:04 there are probably a few other monsters that need shuffling around in that list 17:55:25 archer statues don't exist anymore though 17:55:30 archer statue (158) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Dam: 20 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, master archer, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 561 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 17:55:30 %??archer statue 17:55:39 gammafunk: summ/tmut: you get the passive eye mutation, and every time you get hit in melee there's a chance an eye buds off of you 17:55:41 or did they get added back in when I wasn't looking 17:55:58 'Eyewall' 17:56:50 Eronarn: box of beasts can already give you a catlobe chimera, what more do you want?? (maybe fire crabs at high levels could work) 17:57:18 need moar apocalypse crabs 17:58:08 todo: summon crabs 17:58:09 Eronarn: targetted projectile-like summons could work best on rods i think, e.g. rod of the swarm 17:58:29 "plague of crabs" 17:58:45 Summon Crustaceans 17:59:28 mumra: it's cool to have stuff on evo items, but summ is a playstyle too 18:00:03 ok, checked 4chan out of morbid curiosity 18:00:16 they are already complaining about MuSu being nerfed into oblivion 18:00:19 summons that work like projectiles don't fit very well with the summoner playstyle imo 18:00:33 Lightli: Crawl on 4chan?? 18:00:33 mumra: only because right now the summoner playstyle is all spam 18:00:53 ...lightning lobsters or something 18:00:54 i don't think spells like this should be added piecemeal, for sure, but if evo sucks up all of them then summ will never change 18:00:55 <_< 18:01:04 Grunt: rock lobster 18:01:05 (Whatever happened to the electric snail or whatever it was called?) 18:01:08 Eronarn: well it's not all spam anymore 18:01:18 Lightli: somethingawful, I understand. But 4chan? 18:01:28 you want me to link the thread? 18:01:35 (can we add rock lobster, paper tiger, and scissors lizard?) 18:01:41 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:02:02 http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scissors%20lizard 18:02:08 they rejected my blinkmoth idea, that's not going to fly 18:02:22 * kilobyte dreads of a yet another trap thread on /b/ that instead of the usual talks about shafts (this kind of shafts). 18:02:32 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 18:02:35 seriously, that place can warp anyone's fragile little mind 18:02:47 what i don't understand is how anyone finds anything on 4chan, it has the worst interface of any website every 18:02:53 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:02:54 -!- aves has quit [Changing host] 18:04:12 they have a roguelike thread on /vg/ often, and sometimes it isn't that horrible 18:04:31 mumra: what I don't understand is how anyone can read 4chan unfiltered, period. You can good /tg/ stuff on http://1d4chan.org, even good /b/ (yeah, an oxymoron) on http://encyclopediadramatica.se, but reading it directly is kind of a goatse for goatse's sake 18:04:59 they mostly play tiles though 18:05:30 and so far no one has posted their support for the nerf on there 18:05:48 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 18:06:17 if you want me to I'll link the thread, but...well, 4chan 18:06:41 now to see how SA is taking it 18:07:06 ...no comment yet 18:07:18 it's not like everyone is constantly watching the logs 18:07:51 are 4chan upset enough to start contemplating an #op-crawl-dev do you think? 18:08:32 well, they all hate the change 18:08:38 clearly this means it should be reverted 18:08:46 lol 18:09:05 don't they hate all change though? 18:09:05 (don't revert it) 18:09:47 it's certainly an extreme nerf (which summoners could afford) but if they now could use any form of buff we have more interesting ways to do that rather than reverting this 18:09:50 i like how now that i'm in a ph.d program i keep getting email and regular mail from other programs 18:09:55 I do think there are a bunch of rough edges with the current change as-is, though. Some spells are pretty bad at the caps they've been given, I think. 18:09:56 woops, wrong channel 18:10:12 4 scorpions? 18:10:17 -!- aves has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:10:31 (Considering a bunch are probably going to be hostile, anyway) 18:11:06 (the hostile ones don't count towards the cap) 18:11:13 the end goal should be redoing almost all of the spells 18:11:13 well presumably the hostile ones don't count 18:11:15 Well, that's something, at least 18:11:18 and replacing them 18:11:35 this just puts something in place to balance those 18:11:37 st_: Well, if the spells need reworking to go with cap changes, perhaps that should have been done at the same time? 18:12:15 sure 18:12:20 i think st_ means they need reworking in general, not as any consequence of the cap 18:12:41 -!- Pacra___ has quit [Quit: Pacra___] 18:14:35 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 18:14:58 -!- lasserith has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...] 18:16:42 is this actually merged into trunk already then 18:17:03 Yes 18:17:25 yup 18:17:38 has tavern broken down into a blind rage yet 18:17:53 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:19:55 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:20:03 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:33 Lightli what country are you in? 18:21:40 you realise a lot of folks in america are still at work 18:21:51 oh 18:22:03 so they'll come home to find their summoners useless 18:22:26 i can make some frothing at the mouth post there if it'll make you happy 18:22:37 are you angry about it? 18:22:49 but yeah go ahead 18:22:51 not especially. i've never been that keen on summoners to begin with 18:23:48 ProzacElf: so is this going to be frothing at the mouth in FAVOUR of the changes? 18:24:02 lol....either way. just to get the ball rolling really 18:24:18 argue both sides of the fence, it's much more fun 18:24:22 there we go 18:24:42 i'll need to get other people involved to truly do it effectively though 18:25:58 -!- Stelpa_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:26:04 write a 2nd post angrily disagreeing with everything you said in the 1st 18:27:13 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:27:19 I already posted my approval of the nerf 18:29:59 hmm. ye-ess....that could work 18:30:12 or just 2 posts that manage to both disagree with lightli 18:30:18 "these changes go too far!" 18:30:23 "these changes don't go far enough!" 18:30:24 etc 18:32:38 Clearly drag Crawl back to the days of 1.1. 18:32:44 (only with the modern interface) 18:32:57 I think the only thing that could possible fix summons at this point is my jump patch 18:33:10 I'm just being 100% objective and honest here 18:33:37 fr: eye of newt 18:33:47 heh 18:33:59 I wish we did have eye of newt; don't care what it does 18:33:59 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:09 the only thing that can fix summons is forest wyrms 18:34:11 also lava orcs 18:34:27 banish monsters into nethack games other people are playing 18:35:28 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:37:27 -!- Kenran has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:35 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:37:57 lol 18:38:02 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:38:20 I want jumping instead of summons 18:38:46 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:33 I think the dev team has their hands full with all the changes coming through, but I'm sure it hasn't' been forgotten 18:39:58 all summon spells cause you to jump to the nearest monster of that type? 18:39:59 elliptic: They just killed summon spam 18:40:14 ProzacElf: haha 18:40:58 =) 18:41:05 %git 18:41:05 07mumra * 0.13-a0-2036-g3d7cb1c: Give dragons a higher timeout 10(65 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d7cb1c15667 18:43:45 ??musu 18:43:45 musu[1/4]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Stabwound/morgue-Stabwound-20080309-224221.txt 18:43:48 ??musu [4] 18:43:49 musu[4/4]: think on yourself as a famous commander think on yourself as a diesel eustachio 18:43:52 ??musu [3] 18:43:53 poncheis[1/4]: 6 games for * (musu sc>20000000): 6x Poncheis 18:43:55 ??musu [2] 18:43:56 musu guide[1/1]: Worship Sif. Train only three skills: spellcasting, summoning, and invocations. Spam summons. Anything will die if you toss enough XXX at it. 18:44:07 wrong channel 18:44:12 oops 18:44:17 this does look inaccurate now though 18:44:35 congrats on discovering an inaccuracy in the learndb 18:44:42 please feel free to fix all such that you find 18:44:48 ??badlearndb 18:44:48 badlearndb[1/3]: TOO MANY TO LIST 18:44:58 ??goodlearndbn 18:44:59 I don't have a page labeled goodlearndbn in my learndb. 18:45:00 ??goodlearndb 18:45:01 I don't have a page labeled goodlearndb in my learndb. 18:45:05 ??goodwiki 18:45:05 ??badlearndb[2] 18:45:06 dev wiki[1/1]: The dev wiki (to discuss changes and additions): https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=start 18:45:06 badlearndb[2/3]: Please take a look at any entry that needs improving!? 18:45:18 ??badlearndb[3] 18:45:19 badlearndb[3/3]: worse than badwiki 18:45:24 'Train only 3 skills' 18:46:48 ??badwiki 18:46:48 badwiki[1/27]: An old wiki (with lots of out of date and incorrect info; enter at your own risk): http://chaosforge.org/crawl/ There is an interesting essay about the relevance of the Chaosforge wiki located here: http://eronarn.info/misc/wiki.html 18:48:28 kilobyte: so the main thing I've learned so far is that even slightly old GDBs really dislike what gcc 4.8 does for -g 18:48:37 (namely, emit dwarf 4) 18:52:02 -!- scummos^ is now known as scummos 18:52:38 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2036-g3d7cb1c (34) 18:52:38 SamB: how do you define "slightly old GDBs"? 18:52:55 more precisely, does 7.6-3 count? 18:53:21 no, it doesn't 18:53:49 well, I guess 7.4 is a bit older than slightly maybe 18:54:04 7.4.1 I mean 18:54:12 I don't live that far in the past :) 18:54:14 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:55:07 well, we did until just a bit ago 18:57:48 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:59:40 actually, I don't have gcc installed on a _single_ wheezy system, even chrooted, right now :p 19:00:02 it seems doko didn't plan the gcc-4.8 transition very well though and that lead to a hurried upload ... 19:01:04 you'd think "make sure the debugger can cope with the output of the new 'gcc -g'" would be on his checklist 19:01:39 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2036-g3d7cb1c (34) 19:01:40 for the default compiler, I guess so 19:02:17 -!- Datul_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:02:22 -!- alefury|2 has quit [] 19:04:04 ok this is sad 19:04:15 someone on 4chan just called summoning pre-nerf balanced 19:05:24 so in addition to ??badwiki, ??badtavern and ??badsa we need to gather 4chan gems too? 19:06:12 they all play tiles 19:06:13 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:06:18 kilobyte: you left out badreddit?! I'm going to post an angry rant about how the devs hate reddit! 19:06:26 also left out badirc\ 19:06:51 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2037-gd7ebfe9: Fix a rare case of WebTiles game not loading right 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d7ebfe9bcc03 19:06:53 can't we just agree that odds are any given source of discussion about Crawl has no idea what they're talking about 19:06:57 SwissStopwatch: we just stuff those wherever 19:07:00 Lightli: right, that's a reason good enough 19:07:56 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:35 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:13:43 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2038-g30db7bb: Go to the lobby if URL hash is not recognised 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=30db7bbd8c0a 19:18:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:18:48 Vampires cannot cast Cure Poison at Satiated or below. by Nivim 19:19:35 that hadn't actually gotten bugged when we had the big discussion about it? 19:20:26 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:21:36 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) (Coc:4) 19:21:49 !lm doctordoom crash -log 19:21:49 3. doctordoom, XL27 DsCj, T:117758 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/doctordoom/crash-doctordoom-20130626-002135.txt 19:22:18 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) (Coc:6) 19:24:09 ProzacElf: Bugged? 19:24:28 heh....had a bug report made 19:24:36 I didn't see one. 19:24:40 Just spoke about it here. 19:24:41 i used to be in video game QA....we called it "bugging" 19:24:53 i had just assumed someone put in a report 19:25:08 I was supposed to do so, but had to figure out Mantis first. 19:25:11 ahh 19:25:17 I don't think I've quite gotten the hang of it yet, though. 19:25:19 ah, so that IS the bug that was filed for that conversation? 19:25:35 well, good then 19:25:35 evidently 19:30:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:32:09 -!- Tollymain has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:35:19 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) (Coc:6) 19:35:55 !lm doctordoom crash -log 19:35:55 5. doctordoom, XL27 DsCj, T:118189 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/doctordoom/crash-doctordoom-20130626-003518.txt 19:36:16 ...congratulations, mumra, you're segfaulting something! 19:36:20 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:26 !lm doctordoom crash -2 -log 19:36:27 4. doctordoom, XL27 DsCj, T:117750 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/doctordoom/crash-doctordoom-20130626-002217.txt 19:37:43 -!- absolutego has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:18 oh hurrah 19:39:42 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:42:28 -!- absolutego has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:38 Also, I think ?summoning is affected by the cap, and probably shouldn't be 19:42:50 Since I imagine this makes most of the stuff you get from it disappear quickly 19:43:04 (And it's not like you can spam a rare scroll) 19:44:04 hmm, yeah that should change 19:44:07 how badly is summon butterflies affected? 19:44:13 aka the only summoning spell that matters 19:44:27 DracoOmega: btw if you feel strongly about any of the numbers go ahead and change them 19:44:31 WalkerBoh: cap of 8 19:44:44 ah oh well 19:45:05 particularly i wonder if some lower-level could maybe do with higher limits to go easier on the early game 19:45:18 mumra: I thought that was the Plan 19:45:20 WalkerBoh: you'll still get more than 8 for a few turns 19:45:21 mumra: Well, I would probably need to see how it feels in general and I haven't actually tested it yet. Some spells definitely need an average quality buff to go with these numbers though (like canine familiar) 19:45:31 Since you kind of needed to spam it just to get things that weren't worthless 19:45:32 why did you not follow the Plan 19:45:46 well you can still cast it til you get the good stuff 19:45:48 yeah that's true mumra 19:45:58 mumra: Won't new jackels replace old wolves, though? 19:46:19 what do you mean? 19:46:46 Well, if you cast something that brings you over the cap, the summon with the lowest duration quickly goes away, yes? 19:46:48 Grunt: btw i have no idea how that segmentation fault is happening, i have clearly done something very bad somewhere 19:47:09 mumra: maybe you need to revert almost everything 19:47:14 DracoOmega: you stop casting it once you have wolves 19:47:14 Meaning that wolves are just as likely to be replaced by a jackel than the other way around 19:47:45 (Really, I think it's probably fine to just remove jackels from the spell anyway) 19:47:45 although, it would be reasonable to add some extra weightings to decide which summons to expire 19:47:48 what if you want a second wolf 19:47:53 mumra, looks like a hell effect crash. 19:47:58 SamB: revert all changes back to 0.4 19:47:58 Since the jackels are junk 19:48:01 mumra, probably a summon that's not on the list. 19:48:07 oh hmm 19:48:17 nicolae-: but then we'd have the wrong bugs 19:48:22 Wait, are monster summons affected by this two or something? Why would hell effects care? 19:48:24 the ones we already FIXED 19:48:39 that shouldn't crash it since the index is the size of NUM_SPELLS 19:49:02 mumra: that's not past the end of the array? 19:49:41 DracoOmega: maybe hell effects are using the player summoning code to do some stuff 19:49:48 hmm 19:49:57 it's weird though, it should only call for friendly summons 19:50:24 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) (Coc:7) 19:50:32 Well, many Hell effects are miscasts. Possibly some of that code is still player-centric? 19:50:43 I fixed a few bugs where it was QUITE player-centric (and gods would get angry at you for them) 19:50:49 But maybe something remains 19:51:11 DracoOmega: actually that's not the code path at all, it's monster_info which is checking summons_are_capped 19:51:29 Why does monster_info care? 19:51:35 Isn't that just for examining things? 19:52:21 DracoOmega: you don't think you'd want to be able to see this on monsters? 19:52:26 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:00 i think i see the problem now 19:53:27 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) (Coc:7) 19:53:31 SamB: Well, I am not sure what it is showing 19:53:59 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) (Coc:7) 19:54:01 ... 19:54:02 it's setting a flag so the description can tell you if a summon is expiring 19:54:12 oh wait no that's not right 19:54:16 Well, isn't that just based on an ENCH they have? 19:54:20 Which shouldn't need to check the cap itself 19:54:23 it's telling you if it's a summon that can't take the stairs 19:54:28 Oh 19:54:36 Speaking of which, a description bug: 19:54:37 if you try going downstairs with summons you get a message about your "mindless allies" 19:54:42 oh crap yeah 19:54:47 i saw that already but forgot to fix it 19:54:57 it's actually "mindless thralls" 19:55:00 which is even worse 19:55:01 Yeah 19:55:22 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:55:22 Demonic spellcasters: well-known for being mindless :P 19:55:37 (There was a similar issue with battlesphere at one point; I forget what I did about it) 19:55:52 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) (Coc:7) 19:56:27 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:13 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2039-g7e562a1: Fix moving directly from playing to watching 10(86 seconds ago, 2 files, 5+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e562a13fb9e 19:59:22 That's a good name for crashing stuff 20:03:33 <|amethyst> mumra: looks like one of the things in mon_summon_type 20:03:41 <|amethyst> mumra: probably any of those would be a problem 20:04:07 oh right that's where it's coming from 20:04:26 i'd figured out there was a non-spell value getting in there 20:04:35 anyway this fix should do it. 20:06:29 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2040-g91d4c8f: Prevent segmentation faults 10(50 seconds ago, 3 files, 9+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=91d4c8fd3894 20:06:33 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) (Tar:1) 20:06:45 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 20:07:11 <|amethyst> mumra: I'd have put the assert in the indexer proper 20:07:16 <|amethyst> mumra: maybe both places 20:07:32 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2040-g91d4c8f (34) 20:07:54 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) (Tar:1) 20:08:29 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:33 <|amethyst> okay, he transferred now :) 20:09:03 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2041-ge0cc749: Let scroll of summoning ignore the summons cap 10(31 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e0cc749858d5 20:09:09 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) ERROR in 'spl-summoning.cc' at line 3125: ASSERT failed: spell of 4294957299 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_SPELLS (256) (Tar:1) 20:09:15 o_o 20:09:30 <|amethyst> mumra: you didn't check >= 0 20:10:40 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) ERROR in 'spl-summoning.cc' at line 3125: ASSERT failed: spell of 4294957299 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_SPELLS (256) (Tar:1) 20:11:15 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:11:24 -!- Talesweaver has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:11:52 oh dear 20:12:10 <|amethyst> or > 0 I guess 20:13:01 |amethyst: i was copying an assert from elsewhere 20:13:06 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) ERROR in 'spl-summoning.cc' at line 3125: ASSERT failed: spell of 4294957299 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_SPELLS (256) (Tar:1) 20:13:26 ASSERT_RANGE() is inclusive at the lower bound 20:13:34 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:13:39 oh god damn 20:13:44 <|amethyst> mumra: for lower bound I mean in monster_info::monster_info and mons_can_use_stairs 20:14:05 <|amethyst> and _summon_demon_wrapper 20:14:12 zero shouldn't actually crash anything 20:14:16 <|amethyst> oh, I guess that one might not need it 20:14:25 <|amethyst> mumra: right, but it's currently checking != 0 20:14:31 oh haha 20:16:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:12 -!- rkd has quit [] 20:17:21 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2042-ge456207: Fix assert due to negative spell type special values 10(31 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e456207866d8 20:19:03 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) ERROR in 'spl-summoning.cc' at line 3125: ASSERT failed: spell of 4294957299 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_SPELLS (256) (Tar:2) 20:21:10 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2042-ge456207 (34) 20:21:17 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:23:23 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:39 <|amethyst> mumra: is there a reason you had data_index::operator[] take an integer instead of a TKey? 20:29:45 <|amethyst> mumra: I guess it avoids having to cast when looping over stuff? but contains() takes a TKey 20:30:13 <|amethyst> mumra: I have something I'm ready to push, but if there's a reason I'll leave that part alone 20:30:36 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) ERROR in 'spl-summoning.cc' at line 3125: ASSERT failed: spell of 4294957299 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_SPELLS (256) (Tar:7) 20:30:53 <|amethyst> !lm doctordoom crash -log 20:30:53 16. doctordoom, XL27 DsCj, T:119934 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/doctordoom/crash-doctordoom-20130626-013035.txt 20:30:54 huh what 20:31:11 <|amethyst> I guess I should push my fix :) 20:31:22 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:31:47 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2043-g9c62d11: Fix one more potential summon cap crash. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9c62d115c663 20:31:47 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2044-gcca2df1: Check ranges in data_index directly. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cca2df18b6fb 20:31:48 |amethyst: i think for some reason i thought the array access worked better like that, to be honest i probably shouldn't have been coding at that hour 20:31:48 lotsa rebuilds tonight huh 20:32:23 <|amethyst> mumra: well, that part should be easily revertable with no problems should it become necessary 20:32:41 it still doesn't explain how the bogus value is now getting in there 20:32:46 <|amethyst> mumra: it does require extra casts in some cases, but it also helps detect using the wrong thing at compile time 20:32:51 <|amethyst> mumra: you missed one of the checks 20:32:52 doctordoom (L27 DsCj) ERROR in 'spl-summoning.cc' at line 3125: ASSERT failed: spell of 4294957299 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_SPELLS (256) (Tar:7) 20:33:04 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:33:12 <|amethyst> mumra: in mons_can_use_stairs 20:33:30 |amethyst: oh sorry i only saw one of your commits 20:33:39 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2044-gcca2df1 (34) 20:33:59 <|amethyst> 1tell doctordoom no really, we fixed it this time! 20:35:06 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:19 he's pretty persistent 20:35:35 i think he's quit now :( 20:35:40 aww 20:38:17 He's still going! 20:40:53 I was brainstorming earlier for an unrand that could act as a Charms enhancer (sort of like how we have the spear of the Botono for a hex enhancer). 20:41:24 (Clearly a shield/buckler/whatever to be the opposite of the spear <_<) 20:41:51 ...the +3 buckler of the Cloverleaf {...} 20:41:55 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 20:43:28 <|amethyst> do we need a charms enhancer? 20:44:00 It feels odd to me that every other school of magic has at least one enhancer, and Charms doesn't. 20:44:25 <|amethyst> in part that's because of mechanics 20:44:29 the hypno helmet! 20:44:39 nevermind that hypno is much more hex-ish 20:44:39 ProzacElf, that would be a hex enhancer :b 20:44:44 <|amethyst> since charms are often pre-buffs 20:44:59 <|amethyst> a shield has the advantage over weapons that it takes longer to swap, though 20:45:17 does tmut? 20:45:17 or tloc 20:45:18 <|amethyst> but a larger piece of armour might be better there 20:45:30 <|amethyst> also what MarvinPA said :) 20:46:08 did you people remove staff of enchantment 20:46:16 <|amethyst> yes, some time ago 20:46:21 <|amethyst> %git a94a8c0 20:46:21 07MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-516-ga94a8c0: Seperate hex and charm enhancers, make the spear of Botono a hex enhancer 10(9 months ago, 5 files, 31+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a94a8c090da1 20:46:22 %git HEAD^{/sta.*of enchantment} 20:46:23 07kilobyte * 0.12-a0-677-gbc3ef69: Remove stray descriptions for the staff of enchantment. 10(9 months ago, 2 files, 0+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bc3ef692c607 20:46:31 %git HEAD^{/sta.*of enchantment}^{/sta.*of enchantment} 20:46:31 07kilobyte * 0.12-a0-677-gbc3ef69: Remove stray descriptions for the staff of enchantment. 10(9 months ago, 2 files, 0+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bc3ef692c607 20:46:37 %git HEAD^{/sta.*of enchantment}^^{/sta.*of enchantment} 20:46:38 07MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-514-g618c8d0: Remove staves of enchantment 10(9 months ago, 13 files, 23+ 38-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=618c8d0d9782 20:46:41 ...there. 20:46:43 i knew it 20:47:05 well i guess it says a lot about staff of enchantment that i never noticed its removal 20:47:22 <|amethyst> heh 20:47:45 (clearly make the plutonium sword enhance transmutations <_<) 20:47:57 heh 20:48:00 spriggan knife 20:49:43 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:51:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:58 how do you make a knife out of a spriggan anyway? 20:56:15 bake it first? 20:57:23 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:28 hmm, what do i call them instead of "mindless thralls" 20:58:38 servants? 20:58:54 Even just 'summoned allies' sounds okay to me 21:00:24 <|amethyst> except the undead ones aren't summons 21:00:35 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:00:58 Oh, I had been assuming they would be two seperate nouns in the message 21:01:13 "Your mindless thralls and summoned allies stay behind." or whatever 21:01:17 <|amethyst> I think it would take another flag to tell the difference? 21:01:23 I am not certain 21:01:34 -!- RandomEntity has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130512194440]] 21:01:36 <|amethyst> oh 21:02:07 there's no monster flag for being mindless? 21:02:23 <|amethyst> I guess !mi.is(MB_SUMMONED) && mi.is(MB_SUMMONED_NO_STAIRS) would detect zombies 21:02:31 it's part of monster int 21:02:36 giant cockroach zombie (07z) | Spd: 4-28 | HD: 1 | HP: 6-52 | AC/EV: 0/6 | Dam: 1 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 3 | Sz: little | Int: plant. 21:02:36 %?? zombie 21:03:11 <|amethyst> yeah, you could use mintel 21:04:00 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2045-g1c05258: Correct "mindless thrall" message for normal summons 10(43 seconds ago, 1 file, 22+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1c052582503d 21:04:06 Well, some summons are mindless too, but that's not why they're staying behind (since other mindless things can follow you, yes?) 21:04:46 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:55 <|amethyst> oh, mumra's method is probably the best 21:05:04 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2046-g01a6239: Improve grammar 10(28 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=01a62397e170 21:06:30 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:06:53 -!- heteroy__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:13 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2047-g2d69a08: Simplify 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2d69a081cfa0 21:08:17 oh damn, "servants" was quite good 21:08:20 nevermind 21:09:07 I seem to have trouble spectating games on cszo today 21:09:17 -!- Rebenga has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:17 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:17 -!- heteroy__ is now known as heteroy 21:09:20 -!- qoala has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:27 -!- qoala_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:29 Is there something in the web tiles changes that might be causing this? 21:10:17 I keep getting the loading screen indefinitely 21:10:43 Medar: ? 21:13:04 while we're at it it seems to be taking several turns for the player doll to show up when you start a new webtiles game now 21:13:04 <|amethyst> hmm 21:13:04 <|amethyst> CAO seems fine 21:13:18 <|amethyst> oh, and cszo, it's just taking a while 21:13:30 spectating on CAO does seem to work, yeah; perhaps a bit slow to join 21:14:03 I have a session that's been waiting at load screen on cszo for nearly 2 minutes 21:14:11 magicpoints 21:14:25 mumra: have you had a chance to look over my spectral weapon patch on mantis (7257)? Some minor fixes and support for placement (allowing the monster utility to evaluate them). 21:14:50 -!- eurtek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:16:08 ??monster 21:16:09 monsters[1/5]: Type @?monstername in this channel (or in a PM to Gretell), or @?? instead for stats of the monster in trunk. While Gretell is down or behind on updates, ask Cheibriados with %? or %?? . Cheibriados, but not Gretell, also supports querying earlier versions back to 0.9, with %0.10?monstername . 21:16:42 ??monster[2] 21:16:42 monsters[2/5]: Dirty cheaters. 21:16:46 ??monster[3] 21:16:47 monsters[3/5]: in general 50% of crawl monsters are designed to be annoying 21:16:49 ??monster[4] 21:16:50 monsters[4/5]: The most up-to-date code for @?? and @? can be found at http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=monster-trunk.git , or clone from http://s-z.org/neil/git/monster-trunk.git , branch 'bleeding-edge-crawl'. 21:17:19 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17:28 <|amethyst> gammafunk: hmm, yes, same here for magicpoints 21:17:41 oh, maybe it's just her session? 21:17:49 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:58 <|amethyst> gammafunk: well, it looks fine in console 21:18:10 Yeah, assumed it was a web tiles problem only 21:18:31 <|amethyst> %git 5476c2e176 21:18:31 07DracoOmega * 0.13-a0-2010-g5476c2e: Fix Infusion granting a free turn to any monster you hit with it. 10(14 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5476c2e176bf 21:18:40 <|amethyst> and not that old a version 21:18:54 hrm, I joined doctor doom ok 21:19:19 <|amethyst> don't know if this is related: 21:19:22 <|amethyst> %git d7ebfe9bcc03e64bdcbc335f2d79b4 21:19:22 07Medar * 0.13-a0-2037-gd7ebfe9: Fix a rare case of WebTiles game not loading right 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d7ebfe9bcc03 21:19:34 -!- annoyingGhosts has quit [Client Quit] 21:19:46 <|amethyst> some of that was in game_data so wouldn't be there in old games 21:19:55 <|amethyst> ohh 21:20:15 <|amethyst> oh, no, that should be fine 21:20:31 <|amethyst> it didn't actually add an uninhibit call 21:20:57 my game's save is transferred to latest crawl on cszo and started from console 21:21:03 and I can't spectate from webtiles 21:21:07 Hmm, yeah, that's probably my fault 21:21:09 something related to games started from console? 21:21:11 magicpoints is playing on console, for the record. 21:21:45 ok, so people apparently think summoning somehow got nerfed too hard 21:22:01 clearly it's the butterflies thing 21:22:49 It's probably the fact that the early game summons got capped really low 21:22:50 mumra: thanks for the summon nerf, keep deflect missiles on to avoid player slings and arrows 21:23:02 oh, right 21:23:10 mumra: what happened to the plan again? 21:23:12 and to be fair, Su looks like a challenge background now 21:23:20 (that is probably wrong and I am likely dumb for saying that) 21:23:33 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2048-ge7ba346: Revert "Fix a rare case of WebTiles game not loading right" 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e7ba34653427 21:23:57 Lightli: you want to propose a patch whereby it is marked in dark gray on every species? 21:23:58 Hmh, I wonder how to fix that bug without messing up older versions. 21:24:21 It should probably be dark gray on mummies now 21:24:33 I would certainly take that patch 21:24:42 <|amethyst> Medar: wait, that was a problem? having too few inhibits? 21:24:44 I propose the patch too 21:25:22 -!- kryft has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:53 |amethyst: Too few uninhibits, but yeah. 21:26:07 In the case of new client.js, old game_data at least. 21:26:15 <|amethyst> Medar: huh? 21:26:37 <|amethyst> Medar: the uninhibit was there before that version 21:26:54 Oh right, yes. You got it the right way around. 21:27:03 Wait, asfasd. 21:27:17 the intention of course was initially to nerf much too hard, then when i loosen the limits people will think i've done them a favour 21:27:25 SamB: i don't actually recall a plan 21:27:44 New client.js calls an extra inhibit, and new game.html removes one inhibit to balance. 21:27:46 mumra: I remember there being a plan to have higher much limits on much lower-level summons 21:27:56 mumra: Seriously? 21:27:58 strike a couple of those words and put them in a more sensible order 21:28:01 But if you had old game.html there would end up being one too many inhibit calls 21:28:01 probably ignoring lightli for balance feedback is valuable also 21:28:04 SamB: well this plan wasn't there until uhh a bit back 21:28:13 unless there was a much earlier discussion i wasn't aware of 21:28:14 MarvinPA: That's probably right 21:28:19 MarvinPA: Fortunately I am already following this advice! :P 21:28:27 I mean from like two days ago 21:28:29 <|amethyst> Medar: ohh, right 21:28:37 maybe a bit less 21:28:51 Can't believe I didn't consider that before pushing. Oh well. 21:29:03 hmm, i don't remember that specifically being said, i must have missed it 21:29:04 <|amethyst> Medar: inhibit is counted then? 21:29:11 |amethyst: Indeed it is. 21:29:13 but it does seem reasonable 21:29:49 The only big problem I see with the current summons state is that dragon doesn't seem L9 worthy 21:30:12 can you spam L9 spells 21:30:33 qoala_: i missed the patch before, looking at it now 21:30:39 you can certainly spam shatter, ice storm, and fire storm 21:30:56 would you say that 1 dragon is capable of doing as much damage (over the course of its life) as 1 fire storm? 21:31:26 one cast or one monster? 21:31:30 not that I'd know 21:31:32 1 cast = 1 monster 21:31:43 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:31:47 there wasn't a possibility of two dragons sometimes? 21:31:58 it's called "summon dragon". singular. 21:32:05 mumra: The dragon is likely to not stay alive for its duration in tough fights 21:32:15 my head is muddled then 21:32:29 is it _capable_ of doing the equivalent damage of a fire storm? 21:32:48 mumra: I assume you know that answer, and are asking a rhetorical question :) 21:33:00 the duration of summon dragon is high enough to let it outdamage fire storm if it lives long enough 21:33:06 exactly 21:33:22 <|amethyst> and if it doesn't live long enough, you can resummon 21:33:27 <|amethyst> without losing anything 21:33:42 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:33:47 <|amethyst> (other than MP, but you would have spent that pre-summoning it as well) 21:34:01 might be good motiviation for better choice of expiry though 21:34:01 and having several of them makes it much more likely to live its full life without you having to do anything ;) 21:34:19 does expiry get cancelled if you go under the cap by other means? 21:34:24 no 21:34:37 is that motivated by something other than simplicity? 21:34:40 no 21:34:53 but expiry is so short it'll very rarely happen that a brand new summon will get killed that quickly 21:35:05 and if that does happen it's quit likely you're getting panned anyway 21:35:19 I didn't know you could get panned 21:35:26 I thought you could only get abyssed 21:35:32 it's very similar 21:35:56 <|amethyst> it's like being pwned, but with a frying pan 21:36:27 <|amethyst> FR: frying pan misc item, which Pan starts with when he shows up in his pandemonium vault 21:36:39 I thought Pan was cancelled 21:36:40 It's just that dragon is basically as good as summon greater now 21:36:50 Is greater a much lower duration? 21:37:18 <|amethyst> SamB: he doesn't have any vaults but he still exists 21:37:21 Pan (13c) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 240 | AC/EV: 3/25 | Dam: 35 | 10items, 10doors, master archer, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(72) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 6455 | Sp: mass confusion, metabolic englaciation, sleep, blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 21:37:21 <|amethyst> %??Pan 21:37:40 The eventual hostility for the T-1s means yes, probably 21:37:50 ??cooking 21:37:51 recipes[1/1]: Allow a chunk of flesh to marinate in a potion of {curing} for two to three thousand turns in order to craft {beef jerky} 21:38:02 ??alchemy 21:38:02 book of alchemy[1/1]: Fulsome Distillation, Lethal Infusion, Sublimation of Blood, Evaporate, Condensation Shield. In 0.12, Fulsome Distillation and Evaporate are replaced by Petrify and Alistair's Intoxication. 21:38:06 doh 21:38:33 <|amethyst> gammafunk: also, dragons do stick around somewhat longer after they are capped 21:38:38 dragons have much longer duration even apart from the fact that they don't attack you, yes 21:38:39 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 21:39:59 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:40:43 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:42:22 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:15 03SamB 07* 0.13-a0-2049-g4b63c23: MuSu be hard now (Lightli) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b63c23585b0 21:45:10 wait something I mentioned actually got implemented? 21:45:37 yes but it doesn't affect gameplay 21:46:44 oh 21:46:59 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 21:48:55 SamB: thing is, they seem fine early game 21:49:05 yes, did you actually try a musu 21:49:10 that's not the stage when you're capable of spamming summons anyway 21:49:15 because somehow i would be surprised if they are suddenly useless 21:49:30 well you can delete the line then 21:49:33 or revert the commit 21:49:36 sorry 21:49:45 I kill everything I play anyway 21:49:56 with the exception of the ones that I leave in the middle 21:50:04 gammafunk: but now it's better to have both spells, then you can have dragons and demons at the same time 21:51:25 mumra: I think you'd probably need haunt or XXX and one spell from those two to have a viable summoner, which perhaps is what you're going for 21:51:26 Hmm, was the new encumbrance system intended as a heavy armor nerf? It seems to have worked that way with the current formulas (although I'm sure they're not intended to be final) 21:52:04 mumra: A build with just greater and dragon probably wouldn't work well unless you also did conjurations 21:52:14 kryft: encumberance system? 21:52:18 mumra: But it seems you love for players to branch out more than I do :) 21:52:41 SamB: The new EV penalty system 21:52:47 ah 21:53:38 there's this thing called melee 21:54:06 gammafunk: yes if you want a "pure" summoner, you have to spend all your spell slots on summoning spells 21:54:15 you might want malign now too 21:54:35 mumra: Give me two tentacles from malign and it's a deal 21:55:12 before i first actually cast malign, i was imagining more than one tentacle 21:56:04 it could probably be more powerful considering the costs 21:56:16 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:57:15 I assume that in some point in the future, conjurations might also end up on the nerfing block 21:57:27 No more spamming firestorm? 21:57:58 If you *really* want to get people enraged, nerf firestorm 21:59:05 no 22:00:19 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 22:00:50 -!- qoala_ has quit [] 22:00:59 the only thing malign gateway needs to less of a delay 22:01:41 I can never find any gateways to malign :-( 22:02:32 less delay and smite targeted would also be nice 22:02:49 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:03:08 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:29 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:04:41 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:07 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:49 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:11 oh god, why do i keep forgetting that okawaru hates summoners 22:08:34 is it because i'm terrible at crawl 22:08:48 <|amethyst> mumra: summon cap might help actually 22:09:00 <|amethyst> mumra: since you can time out the ones who are hurt 22:09:07 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:09:07 hmm, good point 22:09:31 still, there are probably far better things i could have done, like not worshipping the first altar i found :P 22:09:37 I don't think that's really viable in a practical situation 22:09:56 Since if they're hurt enough to want to poof them, then a turn or two for them to poof is long enough to die 22:10:07 So I doubt it would really help you much 22:12:05 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:12:20 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2050-g8e19f4f: Get dlua set_border_fill_type() working again. 10(8 minutes ago, 3 files, 13+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8e19f4f71f7c 22:12:20 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2051-ga819e60: A minor adjustment to coc_grunt. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 13+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a819e60027dd 22:13:15 -!- lorinal has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:13:43 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:06 DracoOmega: Oh, I think I had newforest yesterday and was very confused because I didn't have access to IRC :P 22:14:12 ??treant 22:14:12 I don't have a page labeled treant in my learndb. 22:14:27 ??%treant 22:14:28 I don't have a page labeled treant in my learndb. 22:14:32 DracoOmega: Like wtf is a treant and why was it friendly :) 22:14:35 I always screw that up 22:14:38 (Fedhas probably but still) 22:14:39 treant (04P) | Spd: 7 | HD: 16 | HP: 133-173 | AC/EV: 16/3 | Dam: 48 | 03plant | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 1869 | Sz: Big | Int: normal. 22:14:39 %??treant 22:15:13 Grunt: You adjusted what now in that commit?! :) 22:15:30 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:16 I made a couple of islands larger. <_< 22:16:42 ??itsmu[4 22:16:42 itsmu[4/7]: (3:29:00 PM) Mu_: what's wrong with my coc (3:29:07 PM) elliptic: it is too large :P 22:17:28 kryft: Actually that confused me TOO 22:17:48 kryft: Since, uh, Fedhas didn't convert them in my tests, and possibly shouldn't, since they're sentient 22:17:54 I was like "Why is that treant friendly?" 22:18:01 DracoOmega: Ah, you saw my game? 22:18:04 Yes 22:18:11 And you nearly dying to spirit wolves 22:18:13 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2051-ga819e60 (34) 22:18:13 DracoOmega: I probably would have died without it (I died shortly afterwards anyway) 22:18:24 Because terribly defenses and all that 22:18:27 terrible, even 22:18:27 I actually thought you might ACTUALLY die to the wolves 22:18:34 Yes, I was surprised 22:18:53 !lg * ckiller=spirit wolf 22:18:53 No keyword 'wolf' 22:18:56 !lg * ckiller=spirit_wolf 22:18:57 No games for * (ckiller=spirit_wolf). 22:19:06 !lg * ckiller=treant 22:19:07 No games for * (ckiller=treant). 22:19:11 hrm 22:19:19 Of the new stuff, only a water nymph and ancient bear have a kill yet 22:19:29 !lg * ckiller=ancient_bear 22:19:29 1. VZ the Phalangite (L24 DjFi), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by an ancient bear on Forest:5 on 2013-06-25 20:29:27, with 440002 points after 88791 turns and 5:21:03. 22:19:31 i will remark that on my LOBe win, Forest was nastier than V:$ 22:20:13 Closest I got to death was when I got pinned between an unending horde of water elementals summoned by an elemental wellspring and Mennas. 22:20:27 Well, both wellsprings and Mennas spawn in D, too, so... :P 22:20:55 Admittedly you well see wellsprings in Forest more often, since there is more water 22:21:17 wait let me check something 22:21:19 water elemental (02E) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 6 | HP: 32-53 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 2212(drown) | 11non-living, amphibious | Res: 13magic(immune), 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 212 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 22:21:19 %??water elemental 22:21:31 red ugly thing (05u) | Spd: 11 (act: 110%) | HD: 8 | HP: 30-59 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 1204(fire:8-15) | 10doors | Res: 06magic(32), 05fire, 04napalm | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 342 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 22:21:31 %??red ugly thing 22:21:55 basically, wellsprings are like MuSus that spam summon ugly things 22:22:02 er, pre-nerf MuSus 22:23:03 except MuSus don't use primal wave 22:23:42 -!- Hosg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:23:58 Lightli: remember you frequently get very ugly things from summon ugly thing 22:24:11 red very ugly thing (04u) | Spd: 11 (act: 110%) | HD: 12 | HP: 45-82 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 1804(napalm) | 10doors | Res: 06magic(48), 05fire++, 04napalm | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 985 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 22:24:11 %??red very ugly thing 22:24:15 1/3 chance at max power. 22:24:35 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:37 NAPALM 22:25:14 todo: Napalm Blast 22:25:27 Fireball that sticky flames everything it hits <_< 22:26:18 That sounds like an... unpleasant monster spell 22:26:18 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 22:26:53 What about as a player spell? :b 22:27:00 Level 8 or so Conjuration/Fire. 22:27:10 -!- lasserith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:48 Nolgreb's Napalmy Radiance? 22:28:01 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:14 We need a good fire mage name :) 22:28:29 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:45 heh, i just wanted my inspiration to be clear 22:28:49 so i wouldn't have to explain the spell =P 22:29:31 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 22:30:10 Level 8 sounds rather high 22:30:17 (But maybe it could be an interesting Veh-spell, if those ever happen) 22:30:18 elliptic: MuSu is dead; how do you feel 22:30:37 DracoOmega: I still dream of a DEFE that can cast Hellfire 22:30:57 ??staff of dispater 22:30:58 staff of dispater[1/2]: +4,+4 golden staff. E(v)oke for 100 hunger, -some hp, -6 mp, Hellfire (power = 8 * Evo) 22:30:59 !log . DsBe won 22:30:59 1. darkli, XL27 DsBe, T:92346: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/darkli/morgue-darkli-20130419-215104.txt 22:31:18 My DsBe was but a taste of that dream 22:31:59 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:25 <|amethyst> is there any good reason for those two ?acq bugs to be private? 22:32:49 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 22:35:07 -!- Implojin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:35:50 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:05 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:39:17 * SamB is puzzled why LOBe doesn't default to axe 22:40:27 <|amethyst> default? 22:40:49 -!- knaveightt has quit [Quit: I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not too sure.] 22:40:50 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:09 ListenToMetal the Eclecticist (L26 OpCj) (Forest:5) 22:41:20 hitting the down arrow all two times is tiring 22:41:41 SamB: Life is so hard sometimes.... 22:41:47 <|amethyst> !lm ListenToMetal crash -log 22:41:47 3. ListenToMetal, XL26 OpCj, T:118162 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/ListenToMetal/crash-ListenToMetal-20130626-034108.txt 22:42:10 (Can we have OgHu start with a club instead of a short sword, like OgEn starts with a club instead of a dagger? <_<) 22:42:18 <|amethyst> rebuilding trunk 22:42:25 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:42:25 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 22:42:32 <|amethyst> makes more sense for oghu than ogen I'd say 22:42:48 a club can be surprisingly bad 22:42:57 have you ever used a club with minimum delay before 22:43:16 |amethyst: no, but it's funny how both people who reported it have done so in secret 22:43:22 which sense of "bad" is this 22:43:38 well you might expect it to be quite good for d:1, since it's a minimum delay weapon 22:43:42 ??club 22:43:43 club[1/2]: A heavy piece of wood that falls into the Maces & Flails category. Damage: 5. Accuracy: +3. Delay: 13. Can be thrown, usually at you. 22:44:02 they have the same delay as tridents and 4 less base damage 22:44:04 you can still almost die to things with it however 22:44:25 true 22:44:50 devastator is legit awesome though (even if it's technically not a club) 22:45:02 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Client Quit] 22:45:23 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2052-g04540f5: Make Spectral Weapon reset on player's next turn if it hasn't attacked. 10(18 hours ago, 3 files, 22+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=04540f580012 22:45:23 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2053-ge24769a: Allow spectral weapons to be placed by mons spec, like dancing weapons. 10(17 hours ago, 2 files, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e24769a3349f 22:45:23 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2054-gf0fb5c9: Make spectral weapon speed 30. 10(17 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f0fb5c9c8bf1 22:45:23 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2055-g6cfaa00: Moved the setting of Spectral Weapon stats to ghost code, like dancing. 10(16 hours ago, 7 files, 56+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6cfaa0000909 22:45:23 03qoala 07* 0.13-a0-2056-g43dcbed: Add spectral weapons to more shared special cases with dancing weapons. 10(16 hours ago, 3 files, 6+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43dcbeda251c 22:45:23 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2057-g377061b: Don't cap Makhleb demons 10(52 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=377061b7f731 22:45:23 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2058-g5527b47: Fix formatting and simplify (Spectral Weapon) 10(3 minutes ago, 7 files, 42+ 47-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5527b4728461 22:45:25 unlimited a scroll of acquirement by DolJuk 22:45:31 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:47:10 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:47:12 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2051-ga819e60 (34) 22:48:57 <|amethyst> oh, I was going to ask why the other one didn't show up to chei, but I see it's already been resolved as duplicate 22:49:33 -!- Xares has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:50:17 is qoala minmay? 22:52:23 What makes you think that? 22:52:46 I think it is very safe to say no 22:52:51 heh 22:52:55 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: later all] 22:53:26 DracoOmega: why? 22:54:07 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:54:14 Well, because qoala is not a font of bitter vitriol, for one thing 22:54:20 because no is the answer to the question presumably 22:54:46 and that too 22:55:45 It just made me suspicious to see minmay saying a few times "qoala is the best new poster" on the tavern 22:56:14 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-2059-g01b5d93: Adjust Box of Beasts probabilities 10(44 seconds ago, 1 file, 13+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=01b5d9323cdc 22:56:34 haha, what did he say that captured minima's heart 22:56:37 *minmay's 22:56:46 and then qoala resurrected minmay's god proposal with some fairly detailed responses 22:56:56 um 22:56:58 really need to turn off that autocorrect right now 22:57:15 can minmay code 22:57:47 * Grunt ponders hammers or whips instead of clubs for OgHu (and OgAr who also gets a short sword), since clubs are replacing daggers on En/As and not short swords... 22:57:48 SamB: he said he had forks of other roguelikes or something, so yes 22:58:01 I has no memory 22:58:21 <|amethyst> Grunt: why does anything but yiuf still have hammers? 22:58:31 (remove hammers?) 22:58:44 <|amethyst> give yiuf's shack an unrand hammer 22:58:52 <|amethyst> perhaps several 22:59:04 SamB: I think he can to a degree at least, but I think my jaw would drop if he coded something that ADDED stuff to Crawl; 22:59:13 <|amethyst> (actually just a renamed and re-statted club) 22:59:17 |amethyst: I think there are versions of his vault that do; I've found an unrand hammer there on occasion 22:59:28 gammafunk: what's an unrand hammer <_< 22:59:32 gammafunk: you probably mean a randart hammer! 22:59:38 Grunt: yeah, sorry 22:59:43 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:07 <|amethyst> The +9,-2 hammer "Duckling Butter". 23:00:10 But do we really want to make an unrand hammer?! 23:00:25 <|amethyst> gammafunk: well, unrands can be "fake" weapon types 23:00:33 <|amethyst> which was why I even suggested it 23:00:33 the +4,+4 hammer of the Insane Hermit {chaos}. 23:00:47 can arcane marksman be given a weapon? 23:00:48 |amethyst: need it even be re-statted 23:01:13 buppy: how about we throw in a Sentinel's mark 23:01:14 <|amethyst> SamB: maybe a restatted (nerfed) mace instead of club 23:01:22 <|amethyst> SamB: so it doesn't get the stabbing bonus either 23:01:41 <|amethyst> SamB: but probably doesn't need to be, no 23:01:54 ??hammer 23:01:55 hammer[1/2]: Hammer, Damage Rating: 7, Accuracy Rating: +3, Base Attack Delay: 13 23:02:01 SamB: what does that me? 23:02:02 mean* 23:02:04 ??mace 23:02:04 mace[1/1]: A long handle with a heavy lump on the end. (one-handed mace; Dmg 8 Acc +3 Delay 14) 23:02:05 <|amethyst> buppy: they get one! ba-dum-ch 23:02:11 ??club 23:02:12 club[1/2]: A heavy piece of wood that falls into the Maces & Flails category. Damage: 5. Accuracy: +3. Delay: 13. Can be thrown, usually at you. 23:02:15 buppy: it would be bad for you 23:02:23 Not sure why hammers exist, really 23:02:26 because the monsters would make a beeline for you at game start 23:02:28 (remove hammers; buff clubs) 23:03:00 Grunt: you're trying to get a better stabbing bonus in maces and flails aren't you 23:03:15 Grunt: small spiked clubs! 23:03:25 SamB, I'm trying to make the OgHu (and/or OgAr) start make sense :b 23:03:49 you're sure this isn't about OgEn 23:03:58 ??flail 23:03:58 flail[1/1]: Damage: 10, Acc: 0, Delay: 14. 23:04:13 It's only about OgEn because OgEn gets a club instead of a dagger. :b 23:04:34 the stabbing bonus is the same for all m&f already, right? 23:04:48 same as for all non-longblads/shortblades 23:05:13 gammafunk: clubs are special, no? 23:05:38 ??stabbing 23:05:38 stabbing[1/5]: A successful stab with a short blade increases your damage from dam to (dam+bonus)*mult, where bonus depends on your dex and stab skill and is capped at 30, and mult depends on your stab skill and the type of stab (sleep/paralysis is best). Non-short blades don't get a bonus and have lower mult. Daggers get bonus doubled, so use one of those. 23:06:25 no, seems that clubs get no special bonus 23:06:55 melee_attack.cc:2307 23:08:06 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:25 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:08:32 ok, no stabbing damage bonus, but they get the stun, yeah 23:08:40 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:50 learndb needs updating for that, actually 23:09:02 Also, 23:09:05 melee_attack.cc:1842 23:09:16 (they're in the same category as long blades, spears, and tridents for stabbing) 23:10:37 does that goto not check the case condition? 23:10:45 I guess not since it's after the switch 23:11:25 god, that block of code is painful to look at 23:11:48 <|amethyst> yeah, I don't like goto into a switch :) 23:12:06 <|amethyst> but not sure how to better structure it 23:12:41 That's an extreme case (no pun intended) of using tricks to avoid further indentation 23:14:25 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.12.2-9-gf1dcfd2 23:14:34 ...how did we get so far off topic :b 23:14:41 i don't know 23:14:46 I blame Lightli. 23:14:49 there was a topic? 23:14:51 <|amethyst> gammafunk: not just indentation, but duplication of code 23:15:09 <|amethyst> gammafunk: but that could be refactored out so... 23:15:17 SamB, I was contemplating starting OgHu / OgAr with a club of some sort instead of a short sword. 23:15:19 duplication of code is a thing of which we already have far too much 23:15:28 ...and somehow we ended up talking about this :b 23:16:12 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:16:20 Grunt: You showed us some code that's…..unclean :) 23:16:51 Zin frowns upon the use of this code? 23:17:26 You goto the switch statement. Zin does not approve of this procedure! 23:17:45 what is this, Pascal? 23:17:57 Calling this function will cause instant excommunication! Really call? 23:19:37 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:20:14 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2060-gccfd96d: Update Infusion description 10(62 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ccfd96d8f9e0 23:21:48 ??sack of spiders 23:21:49 sack of spiders[1/1]: Like a box of beasts, only it generates spiders and webs. The kinds of spiders you get vary with evocations; at really high evocations you get the occasional ghost moth. 23:22:39 damn it i have to draw this 23:23:00 black bag with web pattern? 23:23:04 also a water nymph because a shapeshifter turned into one 23:23:25 pixelized nudity galore 23:23:49 wait are you censoring it? 23:23:54 or is that just because pixels 23:23:59 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:24:11 there's no way to know 23:24:34 well I could look at the tile after you make it 23:24:36 in theory 23:24:37 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:50 but how can you tell if it's mosaiced or just low resolution 23:24:52 hmmmmm 23:25:11 because I can tell how big the real pixels are! 23:25:36 if you mosaic it with a 1px by 1px mosaic that doesn't count 23:25:58 -!- pelotron_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:26:28 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:30:05 can there be a magical staff in the hall of blades? 23:30:27 No 23:31:11 it's magically a blade 23:31:58 myrmidette: put blades on it and sure 23:32:14 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:15 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:16 Some great tv of the new Enchantress: !lm Basil uniq=~Enchantress 23:36:20 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 23:36:23 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:39 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 23:36:56 what's changed? 23:37:05 Spellset overhaul 23:37:19 @??the enchantress 23:37:20 the Enchantress (13i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 60 | AC/EV: 1/40 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, DMsl | Res: 06magic(140) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 2051 | Sp: corona, sleep, haste, banishment, invisibility, teleport self | Sz: little | Int: high. 23:37:23 the Enchantress (13i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 60 | AC/EV: 1/40 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, DMsl | Res: 13magic(immune) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1846 | Sp: dimension anchor, slow, haste, mass confusion, strip resistance, invisibility | Sz: little | Int: high. 23:37:23 %??the enchantress 23:40:39 ontoclasm: sack of spiders description is "a woven silk bag", this could change of course, but the idea is it's spider silk 23:41:00 ontoclasm: and should perhaps look a bit like a sac of spider eggs if you've ever seen one 23:41:01 -!- Yermak has quit [Client Quit] 23:41:34 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:43:29 Why does the new enchantress give less xp? 23:43:53 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:00 @??-version 23:44:00 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.13-a0-1793-g1cc1d03 23:44:05 -!- bh_ is now known as bh 23:44:05 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.13-a0-2059-g01b5d93 23:44:05 %??-version 23:44:19 Wahaha: Ironically, because she lost tele-self (the formula is odd). But her xp is far too low anyway 23:45:22 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-2060-gccfd96d (34) 23:47:12 is strip resistance single-target? 23:47:43 ??hexes 23:47:43 hexes[1/1]: Contains all the good hexes, after Enchantments was split into Charms and Hexes. 23:47:47 ??charms 23:47:48 charms[1/2]: Probably want to train this. Contains all the good charms, after Enchantments was split into Charms and Hexes. 23:47:51 ??charms[2] 23:47:54 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2061-g163e2c0: Adjustments to layout_grid_shapes. 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 25+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=163e2c0a6e61 23:47:54 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-2062-g975aacb: Give Ogres previously forced to start with a short sword a club instead. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=975aacb29f86 23:47:56 charms[2/2]: haste, ring of flames, death's door, levitation, ozo's armor, rmsl, regen, swiftness, flight, ctele, dmsl, sure blade, and all weapon brands... and BATTLESPHERE 23:47:59 <|amethyst> so is anyone here capable of doing a Mac build? 23:49:08 |amethyst: badly 23:49:40 ??vulnerability 23:49:41 scroll of vulnerability[1/2]: Halves the MR of everything in LOS, including you. Also removes _all_ enchantments, whether helpful or harmful. Use it on tough enemies with high MR, that can't cast any status effect magics themselves - don't use on sphinxes! Also removes 1 to 5 points of magic contamination. 23:49:51 ??vulnerability[2] 23:49:52 scroll of vulnerability[2/2]: Cerebov screams as he is devoured by a tear in reality. 23:50:05 Would a single target spell like Vulnerability suck? 23:50:17 yes it would be insanely op 23:51:19 DracoOmega: seen on webtiles re enchantress changes: "Basil: Would it be over the line if I asked you to tell him to go f himself?" 23:51:27 myrmidette: think it's balance'able? 23:51:32 Grunt: What? 23:51:41 ("him" being you.) 23:51:53 Oh, nice 23:52:01 I was actually talking to him on IRC and he didn't seem especially upset >.> 23:52:19 what changed? 23:52:22 He's still alive and wearing the armor, so he can't be too mad 23:53:00 bh, the spell set. 23:53:46 the Enchantress (13i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 60 | AC/EV: 1/40 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, DMsl | Res: 13magic(immune) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1846 | Sp: dimension anchor, slow, haste, mass confusion, strip resistance, invisibility | Sz: little | Int: high. 23:53:46 %??enchantress 23:53:56 ??strip 23:53:57 I don't have a page labeled strip in my learndb. 23:54:03 ??dimension anchor 23:54:03 dimension anchor[1/1]: A draconian shifter spell that blocks you from teleporting, blinking, etc. during its duration. 23:54:14 maybe not OP but it would be a chore, i think 23:54:22 you would cast it on absolutely everything 23:54:56 um. What if it hit you and the target and caused glow? 23:54:57 bh, can you still banish yourself? 23:55:08 while anchored 23:55:47 so it's like forced stasis? 23:55:53 don't know 23:56:08 I think you should be able to Lugonu banish yourself (this isn't necessarily the case) 23:57:44 -!- Firion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:58:16 myrmidette: Yes, it's like the tele side of stasis (or wearing anything with -Tele on it, more specifically) 23:58:29 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:59:16 DracoOmega, can you still banish yourself with lugonu 23:59:22 or by unwielding distortion 23:59:24 Yes, I am sure you can 23:59:32 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2063-g3a60844: Correct an alarming message when waterstrike is cast on a monster out of LoS 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3a60844e6e24 23:59:32 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2064-g3221408: Correct a major timing issue with monster battlespheres 10(5 hours ago, 3 files, 27+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=32214089a7f2 23:59:32 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2065-gcd53f8b: Tengu reaver tweaks 10(5 hours ago, 2 files, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cd53f8bb63be 23:59:32 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2066-ge9985e1: Don't give tengu reavers a chance for crossbows and longbows 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e9985e14a0c0 23:59:32 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2067-g2034c51: Acquaint Curse Skulls with their inner mushroom 10(4 hours ago, 4 files, 120+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2034c5180c8c 23:59:32 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2068-ge381e79: New monster flag M_VIGILANT 10(4 hours ago, 3 files, 11+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e381e79d48aa 23:59:32 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2069-g14ef716: Give vampire knights a 1-in-4 chance of coming with a pair of phantasmal warriors 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 12+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=14ef7167d755 23:59:32 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2070-gf6b0794: Adjust lost soul ally teleport behavior 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f6b079455c11 23:59:32 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2071-gf7884f7: Adjust lost soul sacrifice behavior 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 26+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f7884f727291 23:59:38 then maybe it should be called spatial anchor?