00:00:14 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:00:26 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:00:35 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.2-8-g1913ee5 00:05:03 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 00:05:16 -!- bananaken has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:26 Stable (0.12) branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.12.2-8-g1913ee5 00:05:58 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12.2-8-g1913ee5 (34) 00:06:04 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1763-g5ce7dd4 (34) 00:07:23 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:16 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1763-g5ce7dd4 (34) 00:15:51 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-1763-g5ce7dd4 (34) 00:16:53 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22:15 hmm, should i test artificer with a box of beasts (instead of poly wand) 00:22:20 maybe with just 5 beasts or something 00:22:31 -!- mumra_ is now known as mumra 00:25:10 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:10 Instead of poly wand? When did they get a poly wand? 00:25:17 uh 00:25:18 i mean enslavement wand 00:25:36 Well, I would say that a 5 charge box of beasts is probably a lot weaker than a 15 charge enslavement wand 00:25:55 Though I suppose I may be underestimating how good stuff it can spit out in earlygame 00:26:20 the extra attacks make a lot of difference 00:26:27 poly wand would truly be a dumb starter item 00:26:32 yeah 00:28:19 -!- snwl has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 00:29:08 the thing is you could spam the starting box and clear D:1-2 pretty much hassle free 00:29:36 whereas enslavement wouldn't give you stuff with that much duration _or_ durability 00:29:44 (maybe i should turn the duration down a bit, it's quite high) 00:31:09 mumra: Duration equivalent to high level summons? I assume it's higher than that now 00:32:00 I found for me they tended to last until they died of "natural" causes rather than expiring between battles 00:32:18 The summon duration scale is surprisingly compact though 00:32:49 The summon duration scale is extremely coarse-grained 00:33:01 6 is way longer than 5, for example 00:33:17 You can specify a more specific duration yourself if you want to, though 00:33:24 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:37 Is the box rechargeable? 00:34:03 Just edit the ENCH_ABJURATION duration directly (which quite a few things already do) 00:34:26 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:24 -!- LoomRength has quit [] 00:35:48 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:37:16 gammafunk: no 00:37:25 DracoOmega: cool, thanks 00:38:16 Seems like it should have a pretty high duration, then. Maybe just a durable summons? 00:38:29 that's why i did it 00:39:23 actually at the moment it's only 3-5 00:39:24 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:32 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:35 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 00:39:45 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:51 5 is a lot more than 1.6 times as long as 3 though 00:39:56 The scale used is really rather odd 00:40:59 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:41:23 I've always thought that hydra is way too short for an L7, but that's not a problem with the scale so much as that spell 00:41:43 Haha, these are some very useful debugging messages I have added here. 00:41:45 "Placed an It at (43, 30); Placed an It at (38, 32); Placed an It at (36, 39);" 00:41:49 >.> 00:41:55 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:42:17 You place the terrible stephen king monster 00:42:47 -!- snwl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:43:58 -!- Archibald has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:08 I'd be tempted to add it to the entry, if only it happened in a real game :P 00:44:55 Tim Curry hits! 00:45:02 -!- Dalvant has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:03 Xom snickers. 00:45:17 You are terrified of It! 00:45:32 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1763-g5ce7dd4 00:45:42 We never did get Xom's teddy bear, warwick I think? 00:45:45 I loved the concept 00:45:57 why would Xom need a teddy bear 00:46:09 [s]he's not scared of the dark is [s]he? 00:46:30 Apparently xom really likes teddy bears 00:46:48 why wouldn't xom like teddy bears? 00:47:13 <|amethyst> well, he doesn't want a tiger, because tigers play too rough 00:47:15 not chimeric enough? 00:47:30 |amethyst: too bouncy? 00:47:30 <|amethyst> he doesn't want a lion, because lions ain't the kind he loves enough 00:48:02 is this the lyrics to a song 00:48:12 <|amethyst> yes 00:48:17 <|amethyst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(Let_Me_Be_Your)_Teddy_Bear 00:52:43 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:54:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:38 -!- y2s82 has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:55:08 -!- Quashie has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:55:14 -!- Quashie_ is now known as Quashie 00:55:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:58 -!- gammafunk has left ##crawl-dev 01:02:20 -!- Nivim has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 01:02:44 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:51 -!- snwl has quit [Client Quit] 01:05:19 -!- snwl|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:05:46 -!- mason- has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:07:43 -!- jason55 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:08:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:08:53 -!- wick has joined ##crawl-dev 01:23:36 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:26:21 -!- jason55_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:29:22 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:31:25 -!- qoala_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:33 -!- heteroy__ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:40 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:42 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:49 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:32:54 -!- qoala has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:33:03 -!- qoala_ is now known as qoala 01:33:06 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:33:12 -!- heteroy__ is now known as heteroy 01:33:13 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:54 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:34:54 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:35:33 -!- Quashie_ is now known as Quashie 01:37:10 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38:38 -!- tolly has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:39:21 -!- vivec has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:40:46 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:30 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:47 Nivim the Skirmisher (L4 DrWn) ERROR: range check error (35 / 35) (D:4) 01:49:03 <|amethyst> !lm nivim crash -log 01:49:03 3. Nivim, XL4 DrWn, T:4355 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Nivim/crash-Nivim-20130622-064846.txt 01:49:04 Heh. 01:49:13 Wasn't that fixed? 01:49:40 <|amethyst> Yes, but the fix isn't on CAO yet 01:49:45 Ah. 01:50:00 I tried it specifically because I didn't know what it was supposed to do. 01:50:01 <|amethyst> %git a921654 01:50:45 07|amethyst * 0.13-a0-1755-ga921654: Don't crash on G ctrl-p from the dungeon. 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a9216541b52a 01:50:45 <|amethyst> ctrl-p selects the parent branch 01:50:47 I guess it would have to give an error on D, then. 01:51:16 "there is no aboveground branch, doofus"? 01:51:16 <|amethyst> I changed it to do nothing; but I guess cancelling would work too 01:51:58 s/aboveground branch/overworld/ 01:54:56 -!- dupo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:55:46 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:57 i think it should say "doofus" 02:00:29 -!- Voker57|2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:06 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:34 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:23 -!- Nivim has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 02:08:29 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:00 -!- Nivim has quit [Client Quit] 02:12:57 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:13:07 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:17 -!- eb has quit [] 02:26:53 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:24 -!- y2s82 has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:38 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:29:28 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 02:31:17 Monster patrol points appear to be broken 02:32:29 When they lose interest in you, their patrol point is somehow simply getting cleared, so they wander around like they'd never had one 02:35:30 -!- Undo has quit [] 02:35:30 Oh, hmmm... perhaps this is intentional (but bad) behavior 02:35:49 In that unintelligent patrolling monsters just never bother to patrol 02:36:12 Though you'd sort of thing that a golem set to guard something would manage to do that 02:36:16 Without forgetting 02:36:31 <|amethyst> are they having problems finding their way back maybe? 02:36:44 No, the code literally erases their patrol point, once they try to check it 02:36:56 // Really stupid monsters forget where they're supposed to be. 02:37:05 <|amethyst> oh 02:37:35 If they're not like right next to their patrol point at the time 02:37:40 Which seems bad to me 02:38:08 Those patrolling iron golems in Dis apparently don't actually patrol, for instance 02:41:08 heh 02:41:13 that does seem a bit off 02:41:16 at least in the golem case 02:41:19 Yes 02:41:27 Also water elmentals that forget where their water is 02:41:34 also not exactly great 02:41:37 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: would the improvement to allied zombie behaviour be noticeable 02:41:37 Yes 02:41:39 <|amethyst> ? 02:41:48 |amethyst: Allied ones work differently, anyway 02:41:58 are the new overflow temples now in? 02:42:21 -!- jason55 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:43:03 |amethyst: Well, this code does tamper with friendly zombie patrol points too, but in a different way. Instead of resetting them, it sets them to the mosnter's current position 02:43:13 <|amethyst> yeah, I saw that 02:43:34 |amethyst: But I don't actually think removing that actually would change anything you'd notice? Since they're just wandering out of LoS at this point anyway, no? 02:43:51 Because they are 100% able to track you if they're actually trying to 02:44:00 <|amethyst> I'm not sure how the "patrol point" thing works for allies 02:44:05 I'm not either 02:44:13 <|amethyst> tw sets a patrol point, but they certainly seem to wander away from it 02:44:18 They do, yes 02:44:32 I think it may be changed again under other circumstances? 02:47:17 Actually, maybe that really IS just zombies and such that do this? 02:47:49 I did some tests with leaving more intelligent allies to wander around, and even having them get into fights out of LoS, and hundreds of turns later were still in the same general area 02:48:02 Though the zombies had wandered off 02:48:12 <|amethyst> ah 02:48:58 Though it would be easy to preserve this behavior while changing the one for hostiles 02:49:05 (I am not sure it matters to preserve it, though) 02:50:12 If anything, making them stick closer to their patrol point would make them less able to go clear things out of sight of you, which doesn't really seem bad 02:50:38 <|amethyst> I was going to say 02:50:56 <|amethyst> stupidity should make them stay *closer* to the patrol point if anything 02:51:17 Well, what happens is that they will unless they get too far away from it to know how to get back, which PROBABLY involved them chasing off after a monster 02:51:27 Then when the monster is dead, they will just patrol around wherever they presently are 02:51:37 And so over the course of various encounters, can end up elsewhere 02:51:38 <|amethyst> yeah 02:51:50 Which does sort of make sense for an absentminded creature and all 02:52:02 But plenty of 'mindless' beings are actually really good at taking specific orders 02:52:14 <|amethyst> maybe that should be a flag 02:52:16 So even if they don't have free will and thought, a golem should be REALLY good at staying put when told 02:52:25 <|amethyst> M_ROBOT 02:52:25 I don't think it's worth that kind of complication 02:52:49 I can't really see a benefit to some patrolling monsters placed by vaults not actually patrolling 02:53:10 And not even any real harm in making player zombies more likely to stay put 02:53:14 <|amethyst> true, I guess people who placed patrolling zombies also expected them to patrol 02:53:17 Yes 02:53:24 i wouldn't expect zombies to get distracted 02:53:31 per se 02:53:35 <|amethyst> I was thinking that wandering off to chase things is the intelligent behaviour 02:55:08 yes 02:55:11 This whole thing came up as I was working on some changes to water monster generation, and it was including generating some amphibeous creatures (like water elementals) as patrolling the place they spawn, so that they feel more like a 'water' monster instead of just wandering wherever 02:55:25 Without being strictly bound to it 03:02:26 -!- y2s82 has quit [Client Quit] 03:29:21 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:10 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:32 -!- qoala has quit 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has quit [Client Quit] 06:34:27 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:38:31 -!- Nicksvaffel is now known as Isvaffel 06:42:50 -!- y2s82 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 06:44:26 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: reboot] 06:47:18 -!- y2s82 has quit [Client Quit] 06:49:07 -!- dcss66467 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:26 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 06:59:22 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 07:05:16 -!- y2s82 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 07:06:09 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:18:39 -!- snwl has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 07:22:20 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:19 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:30:17 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:26 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:31:03 Startup Errors - missing files by Denniz 07:39:52 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:45:58 -!- y2s82 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 07:47:37 -!- Nivim has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 07:49:24 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:51:45 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:53:27 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:58 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:58:13 -!- snwl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:01:56 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 08:13:55 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:03 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:52:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:52:55 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:53:07 -!- buppy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:54:51 -!- Palyth_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:01:37 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:19 !message 09:02:20 TZer0: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:02:22 !messages 09:02:26 (1/1) |amethyst said (1d 11h 30m 29s ago): it seems ttyrecs are disappearing? see for example !lg koal clan 36 -ttyrec : the last ttyrec there ends in Orc, not D:18 as the game ended 09:02:55 |amethyst: ! 09:02:58 That's strange 09:04:32 !tell |amethyst I can't see to find koal's folder at all... 09:04:34 TZer0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 09:11:11 they were there earlier 09:11:35 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:29 -!- ilyak has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:19:43 -!- ONeEyedJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:20:47 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:40:34 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:48:22 -!- snwl|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:48:24 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: slain by a gnoll (D:4)] 09:50:20 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:56:32 -!- IsaacSin has quit [Quit: ( FOIL! :: First Outer Inner Last!)] 09:57:12 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 09:57:58 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:50 <|amethyst> TZer0: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/ttyrec/Koal/ 10:01:05 <|amethyst> !lg koal clan 36 -ttyrec 10:01:06 36/37. Koal, XL16 DrFE, T:41926: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/ttyrec/Koal/ 2013-06-20.16:30:03.ttyrec.bz2 2013-06-20.21:52:13.ttyrec.bz2 10:01:55 <|amethyst> I wonder whether the last ttyrec there is the correct one, just truncated 10:05:57 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:09:23 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:40 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:13:12 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:09 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:15:44 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:19:43 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:40 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:41 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:38:05 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:18 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:21 |amethyst: straaaaange 10:42:28 I seriously have no idea why that happen 10:42:32 *happened 10:42:36 going to go through logs 10:44:53 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 10:47:30 -!- Xares has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:57:22 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:58:05 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59:41 -!- snwl has quit [Quit: Killed by a master lichen.] 10:59:47 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:03:38 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:56 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:07:01 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:07:36 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:08 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:12 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:00 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:06 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:24 -!- Arkaniad|Desktop has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:43 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:45 Hmm, I'm trying to compile trunk and I got the following error: http://pastebin.com/qiKStJ2q 11:40:55 Any clue what could be wrong? 11:40:59 !tell DracoOmega might it make sense to have two different values for the patrolling flag, so vaults can generally "always stay here" whereas randomly generated things can *sometimes* have more flexible patrolling which allows then to wander off a bit, dependent on AI 11:41:00 mumra_: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 11:41:08 -!- mumra_ is now known as mumra 11:41:44 kryft: my guess is you're missing some dependencies 11:41:54 what steps have you gone through to compile? 11:42:17 yes, that looks like libncursesw5-dev is missing 11:42:31 Ah, thanks; is that included in contrib if I make those first? 11:42:54 what's your OS? 11:43:13 <|amethyst> kryft: no, ncurses is not in contrib 11:43:16 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Client Quit] 11:44:23 It's my work machine actually; I think it runs the latest ubuntu. I guess I'll just try to compile it on my home machine instead where I can actually install all the dependencies 11:44:51 (I suppose I can always install them in my home folder on that machine, but that would probably be annoying) 11:45:35 kryft: you need to install the dependencies, see the debian paragraph in INSTALL.txt 11:45:48 oh, right 11:46:02 I misread 11:47:01 All I want is to fsim ;) 11:47:07 installing the dependencies by hand would probably be annoying, yes 11:47:31 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:29 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:43 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:49 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:35 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.2-8-g1913ee5 12:08:52 Alethiolet (L17 DsHu) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 417 failed. (Elf:1) 12:09:15 <|amethyst> !lm Alethiolet crash -log 12:09:15 1. Alethiolet, XL17 DsHu, T:53489 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Alethiolet/crash-Alethiolet-20130622-170852.txt 12:09:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:02 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1763-g5ce7dd4 (34) 12:14:55 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:23:25 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 12:26:49 kryft: what kind of work do you do? 12:29:22 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:29:23 * SamB hopes people don't expect programmers to work without being able to install -dev packages on an as-needed basis? 12:29:40 <|amethyst> plenty of places don't give people root 12:30:43 bc forget letting your devs work 12:30:51 -!- John___ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:31:28 <|amethyst> I have root on the machines I use a work, as does my boss; but my boss doesn't have root on the machine at his desk 12:31:34 <|amethyst> he's not a developer, though 12:31:44 <|amethyst> s/a work/at work/ 12:32:27 i have root on my vm 12:32:29 does that count 12:32:56 yeah, I was actually thinking "how do you survive in that kind of environment? VMs?" 12:33:13 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 12:33:15 Dixlet: it lets you install packages in the VM so I guess so 12:33:47 i can't download anything online without going through a complicated process though 12:33:51 it's hella lame 12:33:53 oh 12:34:13 yeah, it is kinda hard to get VMs connected to the net properly isn't it 12:34:29 or, at least, normally involves help from someone with root 12:34:39 nah it's like company policy 12:34:49 to have to wait on someone to approve every dl ever 12:34:54 oh 12:35:03 so you need that for the desktop too? 12:35:10 yeah 12:35:14 (I mean, the real system) 12:35:33 for some reason they have a problem with non-vetted COTS software 12:35:45 even if it's not going to end up in release 12:36:32 so they make you do that every time you want to install so much as an elisp file? 12:36:43 yeah 12:36:47 it's some heavy overhead 12:37:05 don't get me started on the dev processes they enforce 12:37:12 it's only an internship though 12:37:16 ah 12:37:36 terrifyingly software process compliant 12:37:55 terrifying, certainly 12:38:10 i don't even feel like i can refactor or do minor cleanup when i spot the need 12:39:03 <|amethyst> my wife works (not in IT) in pharmaceutical manufacturing; apparently everything is like that there 12:39:22 that sounds a *bit* different 12:39:57 <|amethyst> procedure manuals are usually in the clean room (so people can read them) 12:40:19 <|amethyst> but modifying them can only be done in Document Control's offices 12:40:26 <|amethyst> so they have to be removed 12:40:28 <|amethyst> then re-cleaned 12:40:39 <|amethyst> sometimes multiple times for a single change 12:40:51 what, no printer in the clean room? 12:41:18 <|amethyst> well, certain people have to sign off in red ink on any change 12:41:23 oh 12:41:29 <|amethyst> and those people can't be bothered to come to the clean room 12:41:56 <|amethyst> but you can't leave the manuals out of the clean room for too long 12:42:04 <|amethyst> because then people won't have documentation available 12:42:23 <|amethyst> so usually it's one trip and cleaning for every person who needs to sign :/ 12:42:25 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:41 sounds like they need to invest in some paste 12:42:52 <|amethyst> I think they recently changed the procedure so you only need to take out the relevant pages instead of the whole book 12:43:38 <|amethyst> well, it'd have to be cleanroom-approved paste :) 12:43:45 yeah 12:43:57 hey mumra, how about making it so chimeras just show up as "chimera", and put the component monsters in parenthesis or something 12:44:10 they are way too wordy right now, it feels messy 12:44:26 that wouldn't make them actually less wordy 12:44:41 "a rat, bat, bat chimera" or "a chimera (rat, bat, bat)" 12:44:43 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:44 well, I mean just when examining them or something 12:44:46 but yeah it might look neater 12:44:48 oh right 12:44:49 unknown monster: "chimera" 12:44:49 %?? chimera 12:44:51 <|amethyst> the funny thing is, the cleanroom itself has a lower classification (more particles allowed) than the one she worked at previously in electronics R+D; but because this one is pharmaceutical and production, everything *else* is stricter 12:44:53 but for regular messages it would just be a chimera 12:45:04 that could work, it's something i previously suggested in fact 12:45:19 maybe when it first appears list the components 12:45:24 |amethyst: I guess R+D is less strict? 12:45:25 then for normal messages just say "your chimera" 12:45:28 yeah 12:45:34 and in the monster list too 12:45:52 SamB: I'm a grad student, machine learning 12:45:59 should they stack in the monster list in that case? 12:46:14 <|amethyst> SamB: well, also in electronics manufacturing you don't risk having the company shut down because of a bad inspection 12:46:23 I guess so. I don't think it's super relevant atm, since they are always allies 12:46:40 |amethyst: hmm, yeah 12:46:42 you can't issue commands to specific allies, so it's not that important to differentiate them that much 12:46:51 btw, make sure two headed ogres and ettins are banned, I figure hydras already are 12:47:20 also, what happens if you make a chimera with one of the components being a chimera... 12:47:31 presumably ban that too 12:47:51 yeah, chimera are banned from themselves 12:47:53 although on that thought, there are a bunch of headless monsters in crawl 12:47:55 mumra said something about banning hybrids as chimera components? 12:47:56 well 12:48:17 it has the head of a giant eyeball 12:48:23 currently nothing is really banned (but i'm working on that, along finalising the patch grunt did for MONS support) 12:48:36 but the box of beasts has a whitelist of components it will 12:48:37 use 12:48:41 it has the body of a bog body 12:49:10 You see here a cyclops. It has the head of a giant eyeball. 12:49:19 yeah it's not such a big deal when you just pick from a small list :P 12:49:32 in-game chimera should always be generated from predefined lists, people could make crazier stuff in vault syntax, but i don't actually see a problem with people trying crazy things if they want :P 12:50:16 arena support for custom chimera might be amusing :) 12:50:53 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:45 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:55:49 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:51 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 12:56:17 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:44 -!- dcss32083 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:55 evilmike: since the first component is the most important i was thinking of doing e.g. "dragon chimera (yak, hound)" 12:57:28 that could work 13:00:21 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:06 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:03:07 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:07:15 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:08:26 -!- heteroy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:03 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:11:04 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 13:12:39 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:12 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 13:22:59 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:51 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:29 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1764-g59dd3df: Set themed overflow size limit to 3, not 2. 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=59dd3dff5a1a 13:33:29 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1765-ge0e4bba: A few vaults. 10(18 minutes ago, 3 files, 143+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e0e4bba4ed6f 13:36:20 -!- datgum has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:36:25 giving out a bunch of spells in an overflow vault? 13:37:17 that seems bad yes 13:38:35 giving out one level 1 spell seems fine to me, 4 not so much 13:38:54 I don't really like the other vault either, putting the shaft there is fairly hamfisted 13:40:34 btw, might it be by any chance connected to the ttyrec issue on clan, that I never get the prompt on the trunk games menu? 13:43:37 why does that other vault have a runed door halfway into it? you can't autoexplore to there so it doesn't really do anything 13:43:47 absolute_annihilation that is 13:44:21 probably so stuff doesnt leave 13:44:37 oh right runed doors still do that, should fix that 13:44:49 mhh 13:45:05 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:21 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:45 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:23 MarvinPA++ 13:47:52 you want to bring back the thing where doors could just be invisibly locked until the player opens it? that always seemed worse to me. 13:48:07 doors just shouldn't be locked 13:48:14 well, it seems like doors should generally not be locked except in very specific circumstances like sprint 13:48:25 if you're noisy then monsters will come and get you 13:48:44 MarvinPA: I thought that was the POINT of runed doors 13:48:51 runed doors are to fix autoexplore traps 13:49:11 so it's okay if what's inside just randomly decides to leak out?" 13:49:20 why on earth wouldn't it be 13:49:20 or if jellies eat them? 13:49:45 so jellies eating the door on that D:1 entrance vault is a feature now? 13:49:46 SamB: previously when you found door vault you were scared of that place 13:49:49 tried not to make noise around it, etc. 13:49:55 now what you find door vault you know it's completely harmless 13:50:06 they're meant to mark something scary but make it orders of magnitude less scary than a regular door! 13:50:12 that's just because the transition away from secret doors ruined it 13:50:35 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:37 what's the point of vaults just saying "here are some dangerous monsters, they are safely isolated from you, they can never ever hurt you" 13:51:07 well some of us can't resist opening those doors to find what treasure lies within 13:51:25 it's a pacing thing, the point isn't to lock all the monsters in, it's to prevent them from wandering half way across the level if you make any noise 13:51:32 evilmike: yeah but it would be unruined if runed doors let the monsters out 13:51:34 without being an explore trap again 13:51:45 that WOULD be an explore trap 13:51:55 ... 13:51:55 ??? 13:51:56 or don't footsteps make noise 13:51:57 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.9 sic populo comunicated] 13:52:26 note that the pacing issue could also be solved by giving everything patrolling AI, although that's not as easy to fine tune 13:52:49 that's a difficult feature 13:52:58 the patrolling flag works rly poorly 13:53:16 the only actual problem that ever existed was "autoexplore moves you right inside a dangerous vault when you have explore_delay = -1 without giving you a chance to stop and react when the vault comes into view" 13:53:31 runed doors fix this problem by stopping autoexplore and giving you a chance to react when the vault comes into view 13:53:35 i always wished there were some way to make an enemy remain on the square they spawn on until they first see the player at which point they can do whatever 13:53:37 it works, monsters won't go on an adventure and explore the whole level. they basically chase you like normal, but go home if they lose track of you 13:53:44 not letting monsters open the door is some totally unrelated thing that breaks vaults 13:54:08 they still wander a lot :( 13:54:18 well, that was used well before runed doors came into play, runed doors just wound up replacing that 13:54:36 combining the two may have been a bad idea 13:54:46 well vaults with locked doors were pretty rare and mostly bad 13:54:51 I'm not sure how many of the vaults actually want the monsters to come out and rune you 13:55:13 because again, it's saying "here is some dangerous stuff but it can't actually hurt you at all" 13:55:55 well yeah you can ignore it or you can risk opening the vault for whatever loot is inside 13:56:16 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:17 that generally works the same way for any vault that isn't open and you can recognise it 13:56:24 like evilmike said, it is about pacing 13:56:28 i think there's a fairly legit use when the locked room has something critical, like a rune in it 13:56:33 it might be reasonable to have less-effectively sealed doors 13:56:40 and for large vaults, if you have some stuff deep inside, you might want to lock something for pacing 13:56:55 but I I'm thinking that should be a distinct feature 13:56:55 i don't think the feature should ever be used arbitrarily or just because there are hard monsters, though 13:57:10 so like a very specific tool 13:57:51 I'm fine with runed doors being opened by monsters 13:58:39 yeah it just needs to be done carefully 13:58:43 me too i guess since i hardly ever even see them but lockin doors still has its uses 13:58:54 -!- Naruni has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:59:15 i'm pretty sure the restrict door thing is still working even if it was sorta-depreciated 13:59:55 st_: what about jelly zigs? 14:00:16 zigs could have 0 items in them and it would be fine 14:02:27 zig loot sometimes makes me wish for an angband style "squelch" 14:02:45 i mean, i like loot but so much of it is just sifting through garbage 14:03:05 i would like ident:all on zig loot 14:03:11 since it is really annoying without 14:06:48 yes lua_restrict still works 14:07:23 i've actually run out of id scrolls on characters that find a lot of randarts, sometimes thanks to zigs or troves 14:07:31 to me that's just the price of running out of a resource 14:07:55 MarvinPA: better not remove it or you'll ruin pitsprint! 14:08:07 that is how i knew it still existed! 14:09:17 ++ for using that in sprint and that one awful slime entry (or removing it) and letting monsters open runed doors 14:13:50 Heavy Door for locked door and Wooden Door that you can burn down, imo 14:14:01 <|amethyst> I don't see the point in runed doors if monsters can open them 14:14:07 also, Glass Door and maybe Oklob Door 14:14:12 |amethyst: autoexplore opens non-runed doors 14:14:18 this is very bad for e.g. door vault 14:14:25 <|amethyst> elliott: and goes through runed doors that have been opened by monsters 14:14:39 |amethyst: obviously a change to make monsters open runed doors would involve an "open runed door" feature 14:14:47 I mean, this has been discussed before. 14:14:59 <|amethyst> oh, then that's reasonable 14:16:48 for some reason "heavy door" makes me think a bit of tome style doors, which cant be opened by monsters, but once you open them it's permanently open 14:17:12 btw marvinpa, are you ever going to announce that tome4 addon/whatever you made? I looked over the change log, it looks cool 14:17:34 that's minmay's, he just fills it with references to me for some slightly scary reason or other 14:17:40 if you mean ztome 14:17:44 oh 14:17:57 right never mind then, I'm going to avoid it 14:17:59 haha 14:18:08 famous marvinpa crawl dev, famous marvinpa tome dev, famous marvinpa nethack player 14:18:24 it does actually sound like he's doing good stuff with it 14:18:27 he probably has something like "remove that stupid dream volcano" in the change log, but really the entire thing is the dream volcano, and it's his dreams 14:19:48 i'll probably give it a try at some point, at the moment sil is the new cool roguelike again though 14:19:57 new release? 14:20:41 i don't think it was very recent, st_ (or elliptic? or someone) just happened to be playing it a while ago and then that reminded me i wanted to win it 14:21:45 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 14:22:08 it has some annoying angbandy leftover features but in general it is pretty great 14:22:10 it was boosted by MarvinPA's irc channel obv 14:22:38 i think some of the angbandy stuff is just because it's hard to fix, like how you have psychic door powers 14:23:02 the main thing they are completely unjustified in having is forgetting the map, but that does at least interfere with your door magic 14:23:12 haha yeah 14:23:19 did you ever play it when dragons made you forget stuff? 14:23:44 i don't think so, or if i did i never made it that deep 14:24:25 i think i played the last 2 or 3 versions a little bit, only made it past 800ft or so just recently 14:25:40 mewlips are annoying enough though :P 14:26:01 indeed, that's why I'm at least happy they are the only monster with that power now 14:26:01 mewlip sounds like a pokemon 14:26:21 it's from a poem tolkein wrote, I think... that game has an absurd level of research put into it 14:26:44 I really like the flavour of a monster ringing a bell to do stuff 14:26:50 but obviously I hate maprot 14:27:34 the sil fear effect is cool, the monster is good enough just with that probably 14:28:24 evilmike: maybe tolkien just liked pokemon. 14:29:09 i herd he--no I'm not going to. 14:29:24 thanks for your exercise of willpower 14:32:52 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:26 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:30 can anyone tell me if this bit of templating is going to break everything: http://sprunge.us/QWTK 14:42:08 calling monsters "items" is a bit confusing... is there not a less overloaded generic name? 14:42:40 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:46 also, it still says "mon-pick roll out of range" 14:45:32 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:10 -!- Ajonos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:48:05 entities? 14:48:07 actors? 14:50:21 Dixlet: the point is this could be used to randomly pick spells from a scaled list 14:50:27 or any other enum 14:50:32 so entities/actors don't make sense 14:50:38 and neither does 'monster' 14:51:14 selection? 14:51:23 elliott: 'item' is only used within the algorithm at which point it's generic 14:51:33 i don't see why it needs to be anything else 14:51:51 although yeah that message was slightly wrong 14:51:54 mumra: + for (const pop_entry *pe = population[branch].pop; pe->item; pe++) 14:51:57 + if (pe->item == mcls) 14:51:59 in mons_depth 14:52:04 this is confusing because items mean something different to monsters. 14:52:10 even pe->thingy would be better 14:52:34 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:52:46 when you access that struct it might not be monsters 14:52:52 ... 14:53:04 items are objects you pick up off the ground. the term has a domain-specific meaning in crawl 14:53:07 alas, templated structs don't allow me to change the name of a variable depending on what the template parameter is 14:53:14 this is why using it to mean "anything whatsoever" is confusing. 14:53:23 oh right i see what you mean 14:53:24 I'm not telling you to call it "mons", I'm saying your current name is confusing, not generic 14:53:29 well i'm not hoing to use 'thing' 14:53:50 "choice"? 14:53:50 s/thing/thingy/ 14:53:55 because it's one of the choices it can pick between. 14:54:34 it's not a choice within the context of the struct; 'value' might be *too* generic; 'entry' might work but the struct is already an entry 14:54:59 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:19 choice just seems like a strange word to use 14:55:37 i'm sure plenty of std:: classes use terminology like 'item' is that confusing too? 14:56:08 you know those aren't referring to crawl items 14:56:12 when it's code crawl /defines/... 14:56:20 but yes that is confusing, only minorly, but when you can explicitly avoid it... 14:56:27 "value" seems fine to me 14:57:03 i guess i never get confused by this because my editor knows what type a specific variable is anyway 14:57:30 and within the context of the function it's kind of obvious it's not a crawl item 15:01:05 elliott: anyway this is a pretty minor implementation detail 15:01:34 elliott: i'm more interested in whether the patch actually compiles on all the platforms we suport 15:02:41 well, I'm already using all of my CPU to compile GHC so I can't be of much help there without hating my system :P 15:03:08 hehe 15:04:16 i find myself really baulking at "value" because it's a reserved keyword in C# 15:07:20 <|amethyst> "restrict" is the one that bugs me 15:07:31 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:14:01 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:14:28 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:15:19 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:15:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:16:54 -!- johnny0 has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:17:59 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:22:47 Hmm, "Done exploring." could stand to mention other components of the level 15:23:07 -!- NekomimiRex has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:27:48 hmm, wha? 15:28:27 I mean, when you're in one of those disconnected levels and you've only explored the piece that you're in it wouldn't hurt to remind the player of the others 15:37:29 <|amethyst> assuming you know about their existance through mapping or having stair-dipped, presumably? 15:38:09 or maybe you left level in mid-exploration and came back to the wrong piece of it 15:38:42 <|amethyst> that's just stair-dipping with a big ladle 15:38:57 <|amethyst> but yeah 15:39:03 say, because you've a bunch of axes to dispose of 15:39:39 i guess if you haven't seen 6 stairs you can be certain there's more to explore 15:39:54 or possibly even if you didn't visit all the parts yet but you assume they must exist because you haven't seen all the upstairs 15:40:18 (or we could make autoexplore keep track of both ends of each stair, then it could actually backtrack to prior levels for you if there are stairs left to check out)# 15:40:25 *especially* if you have seen the corresponding downstairs 15:40:51 hmm, I think we possibly just said the same thing 15:40:53 SamB: well if you haven't seen 6 stairs it's the same thing, you know there must be more parts 15:40:54 yes 15:40:56 heh 15:41:57 though really it's just the case of "you resume exploring in a part you already finished" that bothered me here 15:42:09 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:48:32 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:07 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:55:53 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:05:19 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:41 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:44 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 5.0.1/20110707182747]] 16:25:04 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:28:31 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:08 -!- wick has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:30:20 Could we get a warning if using an evocable has a chance to piss off TSO? by battaile 16:32:57 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:38:42 -!- whog has joined ##crawl-dev 16:41:55 -!- whog has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:27 -!- whog has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:29 -!- don__ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:41 -!- don__ has quit [Client Quit] 16:49:19 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:45 -!- Shadow1798 is now known as Schwer-Muta 17:00:33 -!- dcss42871 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:58 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:06:15 -!- whog has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:07 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:10 -!- Lightli has quit [Client Quit] 17:20:08 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:47 -!- bmfx_ is now known as bmfx 17:26:45 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:28:07 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:07 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:37:01 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.] 17:37:27 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:10 -!- ilyak has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:40:30 -!- YorkeSC has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:41:03 TSO booted me after a water elemental finished off the 'helpless' Mennas by battaile 17:41:22 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 17:45:08 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:45:46 -!- phosphorescence has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:49:56 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:21 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:32 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:56:45 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:57:51 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 18:02:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:08:19 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 18:08:45 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:40 -!- y2s82 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:13:20 -!- timpakay has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:17:57 how should gods react to chimera? definitely seems reasonable to consider them chaotic and have zin hate it 18:18:02 and perhaps fedhas too 18:18:30 they aren't undead, fedhas is fine with them 18:18:44 Zin hating them is fine, he hates everything 18:19:07 Zin definitely wouldn't like a creature composed of a chaotic mix of different creatures. 18:20:19 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:20:32 I am uncertain why Fedhas would hate them, since he doesn't seem to mind most freaks 18:20:40 Zin clearly would hate them 18:21:03 I mean, Fedhas is quite fine with horribly mutated ugly things and all 18:21:12 The chimeras are actually living 18:23:35 i thought Fedhas's thing was "perversions of the course of nature",he doesn't care about ugly things because they weren't natural in the first place 18:25:14 They weren't? How do you know? 18:25:26 Really, I see it more as interfering with the cycle of life and decay 18:25:27 question is whether chimera are made from living things or corpses 18:25:34 if the former, fedhas don't care 18:25:36 zin cares either way 18:25:41 If the chimera are not undead, I vote that they weren't made from dead things 18:25:47 which makes me think if yred should have an opinion 18:26:08 Well, they're living, not unliving, so Yred's opinion should be the same as for any other living thing 18:26:10 that'd just be complicated 18:26:17 -!- sbanwart has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:19 yred should just care about things that are beyond the cycle of life and death 18:26:49 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:52 Complicated? I said that Yred shouldn't treat them any different than normal living things 18:26:58 Which seems the opposite of complicated 18:27:00 meant to geekosaur's statement 18:27:03 Oh, okay 18:27:27 also, there should be a high level tmut spell that tries to make chimera out of nearby enemies 18:29:53 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:00 -!- UnkemptArmada has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:30:50 Hmmmm... place-population is continually failing for parts of D now. That's a few times in a row. 18:31:05 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:22 Though I'm not actually sure what the crash is, even looking at this dump 18:31:36 cool, i'll just make zin hate thm 18:31:44 DracoOmega: is that failing in mon-pick? 18:31:59 I don't know. No assert, no stack trace, so I have no idea 18:33:13 Hmmm... seems to have made it past D:6 this time, anyway 18:33:26 There were a bunch of unlinked items in the last crash, but I don't think that could be the cause of it itself? 18:33:39 is this on a clean trunk or with changes you've made/ 18:34:04 -!- pantaril has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:08 With changes, yes. So I suppose it could be my fault. 18:34:23 Though the unlinked items certainly weren't at any rate :p 18:34:50 Hmmmm... crashed again then 18:35:05 Tons of unlinked items here, too 18:35:13 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:15 So much so that it filled the console buffer and just kept going 18:36:41 And I don't think these crashes are dumped to a file, either. Or at least I can't see one in the usual place. 18:38:03 But dozens and dozens of unlinked items sounds like a sign that something in level gen got seriously messed up 18:39:33 Hmmm... this crash didn't have that, though 18:39:34 maybe you should up your scrollback size 18:39:36 previously it was vaults overwriting items placed by the layout 18:40:24 who what 18:41:06 DracoOmega said his scrollback was filled 18:41:43 Yeah, it seems to be set at 300 lines by default, but the errors were going on much further back than that 18:41:52 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:41:54 But this crash dump all fits and doesn't seem to have obvious errors like that either 18:42:57 300 is tiny; I usually up it to something in the thousands 18:43:21 It looks like it crashed in generate_level, as least according to the dlua stack 18:43:53 too bad you're on Windows and all 18:43:56 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:57 Yes -.- 18:44:26 Probably I should test this in trunk, since I have technically made some changes to water monster placement and it's POSSIBLE this could be related, but I already ran quite a lot more test in Forest using these, without crashes, so I'm tempted to say it's not because of this 18:44:34 though of course if the damage had already been done long before the crash it wouldn't necessarily help much 18:45:11 if only crawl had a regression test suite 18:45:30 I shudder to imagine how complex that would be if you wanted actual good coverage 18:45:53 yeah way too complex 18:48:24 Okay, running the script on a trunk build now 18:48:44 -!- radioseilcen has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:23 I think I actually sort of hope this crashes, too >.> 18:49:44 Since it's so nonspecific a problem that I am not sure how I would find it 18:50:28 (Clearly the answer is just to push it so that it crashes server games and gives me an actual backtrace) 18:53:09 Grrr... it works 18:53:14 Or it did that time, anyway 18:54:06 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:54:57 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:58 Eh, twice in a row 19:00:01 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:00:44 bisect ftw? 19:01:30 Well, I am going to try my branch without the water generation code, since that seems like 95% the culprit 19:01:39 Nothing else should affect D in any way 19:02:22 Then if this works, I guess I stare at that code hard to see what might theoretically cause a crash somewhere 19:02:32 (Fortunately, it is actually short) 19:02:57 -!- hjklyubn has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:04:12 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 19:08:01 -!- yogidabear_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:08:50 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:10:12 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:17:59 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:20:52 Okay, yup. It seems this code is at fault. SOMEHOW. 19:21:01 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:23:34 You stare at the code. The code suddenly stops working! 19:26:04 [The giant eyeball] gazes through you, as if you were as invisible and inconsequential as a transparent housefly. 19:26:08 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:24 Interestingly, I can't actually replicate this in-game 19:26:29 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:26:30 Despite regenerating the same levels over and over and over 19:26:52 So I think this is something else mapstat is doing differently than normal 19:27:33 Which is even worse, of course 19:27:52 -!- rkd has quit [] 19:27:57 Oh, huh. And just as I say that, it crashes 19:28:18 Aha! 19:28:34 You swat the bug like a proverbial insect!!! 19:28:48 I have the answer 19:28:58 (And the reason it wasn't happening in Forest, too) 19:29:15 Basically when there's a lot of water on the level, but nearly all of it is marked no_monster_gen 19:29:30 So that it tries to place more things than can possibly fit 19:30:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:31:12 (Forest, however, basically can't have that situation occur with present vaults/layout) 19:31:16 -!- Riddim has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:36 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:57 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:34:09 -!- dupo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:35:25 -!- ilyak has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:39:13 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:41:48 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:43:40 DracoOmega: btw i was wondering if anything you're working on or going to be working on is involving swarms 19:43:47 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:33 imagining swarms of tiny little ***** ****** coming in from all directions and giggling 19:46:15 dude, your name... 19:46:35 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:46:42 I have had so little sleep that I do not give any craps 19:49:29 mumra: Not as anything mechanically different than normal monsters, no 19:50:01 But I think I am getting into the last stages here before I think things are ready for cleanup and pushing 19:50:11 Maybe by tomorrow, I hope? :) 19:50:29 -!- UnkemptArmada has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:52:53 DracoOmega: Will we have plant monsters? 19:52:59 Yes! 19:53:06 Several, in fact 19:53:27 Well, I have two forest vaults made, want to do two more, but was looking for ideas 19:53:32 so maybe I'll wait for new monsters 19:54:28 -!- HDA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:54:38 -!- hjklyubn has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:57:15 DracoOmega: cool! 19:57:22 !vault blasphemy 19:57:29 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/8070845 19:58:49 i was hoping you might have written some actual swarm code :) but i guess i'll probably do it one day 19:59:08 mumra: what would swarm code entail? 19:59:26 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 19:59:28 a multi-tile monster that behaves like an intelligent cloud 19:59:45 oh, I had been wondering about multi-tile monsters 19:59:51 thought they'd be on the no-no list for sure 19:59:54 that can expand and contract inside and becomes more or less concentrated on different grids as it does so 19:59:57 something like this, anyway 20:00:05 well, kraken are multi-tile monsters 20:00:09 and other tentancled stuff 20:00:13 <|amethyst> as are starcursed masses 20:00:21 -!- dcss20436 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:25 and arguable as are monster bands 20:00:29 Yeah, but the kraken head is one tile, unless i'm crazy 20:00:51 well yeah and an individual part of a swarm is one tile 20:01:00 i don't see what the conceptual difference is? 20:01:20 I was perhaps thinking of a quad-tile thing that couldn't adapt its shape 20:01:36 so it's movements would be restricted to open areas 20:01:45 but the swarm monster idea is certainly interesting 20:02:01 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:44 i think a quad-tile thing or even bigger could be ok apart from the corridor restriction 20:03:18 Is the difference between a swarm monster and something like starcursed that no part of the swarm ever breaks off by itself? 20:03:39 starcursed masses multiply 20:03:49 whereas i described something that expands and contracts in size 20:04:06 that's not the only difference 20:04:11 oh right if arenasprint ever updates it needs to have silly upgraded names for the higher hp abyss monster bosses it'll have for one of the rune waves 20:04:25 tentacled voidspawn? wretched nova? 20:05:18 starcursed star 20:07:56 mumra: so is your thinking that each grid of the monster would have its attack behavior modified based on density of that grid? 20:08:16 attack strength, yes 20:08:37 ok, that does sound pretty different than starcursed mass, then 20:08:50 although the attack works somewhat differently, you get "swarmed" and that gives you a duration effect 20:08:59 at least, this is one possible design for swarms 20:09:19 tentaclecursed starspawn 20:09:38 I sort of wish there was a way to get place-population to not count stuff in vaults 20:09:41 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:44 yeah, interesting to think about how one could use that per-grid density thing for the monsters behaviour 20:10:18 dracoomega: temporarily make the vault dummies have the odds to place no vaults for the depths you're testing? 20:10:41 Oh, hmmm.... how do I do that? 20:10:55 dat/des/builder/dummy.des 20:11:43 Do I just give them like CHANCE:9999 each or something? 20:12:01 Or 10000 rather? 20:13:05 0 : 10000 (or 100%) 20:13:23 (by the way who do I have to hurt to make those ratio displays in dummy.des just percents 20:15:28 man, i can't believe how long i've spent on this massive sidetrack 20:15:36 this has taken my whole day or something 20:16:05 What are you doing? 20:16:17 You gaze into the code... You are more sidetracked. 20:16:33 Grunt: Did you get my pm? 20:16:35 i ended up completely refactoring mon-pick into a templated class 20:16:52 so you can pick stuff other than enums with it 20:17:05 this was all primarily to make &Mchimera work 20:17:22 so it picks three random monsters from the current depth if you didn't specify them 20:18:02 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:18:03 Does this... have any ramifications for how mon-pick-data stuff looks/works? 20:18:11 For regular spawn lists and stuff 20:18:26 no nothing is actually changed 20:18:53 i actually wanted this for a couple of other reasons as well 20:19:08 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:19:16 Since I am actually using that code for other things myself :P 20:19:17 depth as in absdepth or floor 20:19:42 i had what i needed working much, much earlier; the huge sidetrack since then is something barely even useful, at least in-game :P 20:19:52 radioseilcen: depth as in the same depth that mon-pick usually uses 20:19:56 absdepth 20:19:57 ah 20:21:38 it does mean in arena you could do "place:Zot:5 chimera" 20:22:15 just was hoping it could help with those lair zig chimera I keep referring to 20:22:16 unknown monster: "place:Zot:5 chimera" 20:22:16 %??place:Zot:5 chimera 20:22:27 unknown monster: "place:Zot:5 any monster" 20:22:27 %??place:Zot:5 any monster 20:22:42 unknown monster: "chimera" 20:22:42 %??chimera 20:22:43 (0, 9, 8 do not work for %??monster) 20:22:43 radioseilcen: it might do, if you can find suitable logic to select appropriate monsters automatically 20:22:56 hmm 20:23:13 I'll think more about it when I can have my hands on a thing to test out specific things 20:23:17 also when I am not braindead 20:23:23 radioseilcen: but it's probably much easier to write a list by hand anyway, and this was working fine before 20:23:31 yeah 20:23:53 i did slightly improve one piece of zombie code as a result of this though heh 20:24:14 DracoOmega: in what sense were you using mon-pick anyway? calls to pick_monster remain unchanged, as do the population lists 20:25:45 but the refactored version can also do weighted distributed picks from lists of things that _aren't_ monster_types 20:25:54 Well, the water placement routine is using pick_monster_from with a custom list 20:25:55 so e.g. lists of items, spells, arbitrary enums 20:26:18 it's basically a generic templated random pick algorithm now rather than only being useful for monsters 20:26:41 Right now I am just doing a very preliminary replacement so that Forest can get its more tailored water spawns, and that a couple new things can show up in later D, but water monsters themselves need new additions and revamps to have enough to spread usefully across the whole range 20:26:45 And I am not holding this up for that 20:26:47 DracoOmega: pick_monster_from is also unaffected (well, the function signature is unchanged, so this shouldn't break anything) 20:27:08 So for now I will leave the old behavior intact for most places, and just use this for D (without much change) and Forest, until more work can be done 20:27:22 And then we can have a more generalized association between a zone and its water monster lists, say 20:27:31 (Just like might make sense for zombie lists eventually, too) 20:28:20 DracoOmega: i could slightly rework mon-pick so you didn't need separate lists for water monsters 20:28:53 (and this IS something that's enabled by the changes i'm making) 20:28:53 DracoOmega: Will mighty giant goldfish still guard the entrance to cocytus after your water monster changes? 20:28:58 mumra: In what sense? 20:29:25 gammafunk: Well, this is only a minor change at the moment, and not a real addressing of the overall issues. That will come later. 20:29:30 DracoOmega: the new version has a variant that will accept a coord_def 20:29:34 Not that giant goldfish don't cause me to flee in terror the moment I see them 20:29:45 DracoOmega: so it'll filter out anything that isn't habitable on that square 20:29:55 note to self do the stupid simple patch to put water elementals in cocytus viestbule section already 20:30:04 so i'm thinking pick the coord first, then pick a suitable monster for it 20:30:26 although, maybe i'm not understand what the problem with current mon-pick was 20:30:33 s/understand/understanding/ 20:30:47 mumra: Well, current water monster generation uses a completely different system than mon-pick 20:30:47 radioseilcen: and maybe chance of a kraken? 20:30:54 nnnnnnnn 20:31:02 too many whimsical uses of those 20:31:11 mumra: But what you are proposing wouldn't work as well in some senses here, since some of these monsters are amphibeous, but still should only spawn IN water, I think 20:31:28 (in a day or two, something something something) 20:31:34 mumra: Like, say, water elementals (or water nymphs) 20:31:38 DracoOmega: we could easily use a custom flag for that 20:31:49 i think it'd be good to conflate the spawn routines 20:32:12 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:32:19 water nymph what could those ever be 20:32:23 Haha 20:32:28 Yes, indeed 20:32:48 water nymphs try to steal your potions…. 20:32:56 No they do not, thank god 20:33:01 "You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" 20:33:30 I've literally never met anyone else who likes nethack nymphs 20:34:06 I know somebody who likes it as a brief bit of just whimsy instead of lethality 20:34:08 mumra: I still have misgivings about placing all water monsters as part of normal generation. I know Shoals actually DOES this, but I think it works better there because so much of it is water, and most everything there can also manage in water, too 20:34:18 but that person ahs made patches for nethack so they're _crazy_ 20:34:47 mumra: But in any case, that much, at least, I think only makes sense to consider when water monsters are more viable encounters at all depths, if they're 'stealing' land monsters away from the normal population lists :) 20:35:59 -!- Sealer has quit [] 20:36:43 gammafunk: stranger than water nymphs are the land nymphs 20:37:43 Samb: But nymphs don't exist in crawl. To what do you refer? 20:37:52 mountain nymph, sludge nymph, grey nymph, 20:38:06 -!- appleKen is now known as bananaken 20:38:18 high nymph 20:38:18 gammafunk: I'm just making fun the reduncancy in "water nymph" 20:38:22 next people will be saying elms will make it back 20:38:25 +of 20:38:45 we could put elms in as a joke 20:38:55 you try to start one but instantly lose because you can't move 20:39:40 according to wikipedia: "There are 5 different types of nymphs, Celestial Nymphs, Water Nymphs, Land Nymphs, Plant Nymphs and Underworld Nymphs" 20:39:51 they're supposedly associated with different land forms 20:40:13 celestial nymphs for abyss monsters 20:40:26 how is it possible that there are 5 types of nymphs when they're mythological and therefore probably the types vary from mythology to mythology ... 20:40:34 on average? 20:40:53 heh 20:40:54 SamB: By looking at the mythology and counting the different kinds that have occurred, I'd guess 20:42:07 Once we get nymphs, we're bound to a dark path to leads to implementing foocubi 20:42:23 succubus (13m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | HP: 300 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious, !sil, 07vault | Res: 06magic(121), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3115 | Sp: malign gateway | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 20:42:23 %??succubus 20:42:25 Too late. 20:42:33 (blame evilmike) 20:42:38 That doesn't really exist.... 20:42:58 malign gateway, haha 20:43:06 well, using my magical abilities to see the future 20:43:07 It exists in arenasprint 20:43:37 **********, with a silly name, although they won't be horrible summoning things with a dumb infection gimmick 20:43:45 hmmm 20:44:00 so, this is probably all going to blow up now 20:44:17 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1766-g94225b8: Support chimera in monster spec syntax 10(21 hours ago, 6 files, 47+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=94225b818f42 20:44:17 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1767-g0e5d462: Rework mon-pick algorithm as a class template 10(6 hours ago, 5 files, 159+ 93-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0e5d46227251 20:44:17 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1768-gea6f5a6: Refactor random-pick eliminating two globals from mon-place.cc 10(4 hours ago, 4 files, 93+ 27-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ea6f5a6ac38f 20:44:17 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1769-g0326339: Add missing call to positional monster veto 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03263390a714 20:44:17 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1770-g151d926: Reinstate veto parameter for pick_monster 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=151d926e33d1 20:44:17 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1771-g7993805: Allow random chimera to be created with MONS syntax 10(3 minutes ago, 8 files, 124+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=799380530f2b 20:44:17 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1772-ge8f0d9d: Refactor box of beasts code 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e8f0d9d3fce5 20:44:19 I am not even sure which you are referring to myself, there 20:44:19 is chei going to start blathering again 20:44:25 dracoomega: "ones held off for now" 20:44:36 You maniac! You blew it up! 20:44:37 <_< 20:45:02 Oh, I see 20:45:14 Silly name! T.T 20:45:22 well yes 20:45:26 mister ironbrand preserver 20:45:31 ironheart preserver? 20:45:35 ironbrand convoker! 20:45:41 can those iron thinks lose the iron already 20:45:43 things 20:45:52 "brand convoker"? 20:45:58 sounds like a coca cola representative 20:46:00 that part too 20:46:07 they can be vaults convoker or whatever! 20:46:10 it would be so much less silly 20:46:13 ok *vault 20:46:15 heart preservers, important items for the old 20:46:19 elliott: note, i changed the variable name just for you 20:46:35 life preserver 20:46:55 obviously a kind of shield fixedart 20:46:56 (Clearly do that rename to coincide with throwing monsters.) 20:46:57 preserver bro, convoker bro, sentinel bro 20:47:09 frat orc preserver 20:47:36 mumra: your cheque is in the mail 20:47:52 don't all elliott checks bounce 20:48:02 what's a check 20:48:07 is that like an armor 20:48:15 they just get vetoed 20:48:35 I swear I have spent most of my dev time today waiting for things to compile and scripts to run 20:48:38 i thought it was chess terminology 20:48:42 it's a less ambigious attack verb for monsters that clearly needs to be added 20:48:48 And now I am even rebuilding 0.11 debug to check something >.> 20:49:12 chequemate 20:49:28 czech mates 20:49:35 -!- tootboot has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:50:01 -!- |amethys1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:13 -!- |amethyst has quit [Quit: changing hosts] 20:50:16 I wonder if anybody would actually do anything about at_hit surely things like ghosts and vortexes do more than just "hit" you 20:50:20 -!- |amethys1 is now known as |amethyst 20:50:27 <|amethyst> ??cszo 20:50:28 cszo[1/5]: New server in Pennsylvania, US: crawl.s-z.org -- ssh port 22, username crawl, key at http://dobrazupa.org/cszo_key (openssh) http://dobrazupa.org/cszo_key.ppk (putty), or use the {CAO key} or the password "crawlingtotheusa". In case of DNS problems, use crawl.dobrazupa.org. Also has webtiles at http://crawl.s-z.org/. 20:50:36 <|amethyst> ??is cszo down 20:50:37 is cszo down[1/1]: It will be down for server relocation between 3 AM UTC, 23 June and 3 AM UTC, 24 June. 20:50:45 radioseilcen: i will pay you to fix your name 20:51:08 elliott: you should know by now that is the exact opposite kind of approach for success 20:51:19 radioseilcen: Well, 'hit' is great if you aren't sure by what method they are actually injuring you 20:51:38 unseen horrors v humanoids, sure 20:51:40 radioseilcen: i won't pay you to fix your name 20:51:51 elliott: okay, no incentive! 20:52:03 radioseilcen: you will pay me to fix your name 20:52:11 elliott: no, no, offer to pay him to NOT fix his name 20:52:39 Webtiles server stopped. 20:52:40 a good sign that my brain is _fried_, I am somehow giggling at this 20:53:28 why is it funny that someone stopped webtiles 20:54:28 I said fried 20:54:32 fryed 20:55:40 frayed 20:55:58 a frayed knot. 20:56:06 if you mutate that word enough times I might use a mispelling of that instead 20:56:09 freed 20:56:09 be aflayed 20:56:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:15 be vely aflayed 20:56:59 -!- radioseilcen is now known as frayedgost 20:57:28 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1773-g1bc6fd0: Change chimera mons syntax 10(33 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1bc6fd00ee49 20:57:39 the real trick with cheques bouncing 20:57:43 is to set up a double-zap 20:58:27 hmm ... which server runs fight club? 20:58:39 cdo? 20:59:05 Yes. 20:59:12 frayedgost: chimera vault support is now in anyway 20:59:17 i changed the syntax to: 20:59:22 rat-rat-rat chimera 20:59:31 death yak-death drake-death cob chimera 20:59:32 <_< 20:59:42 yep that would work 20:59:44 :) 20:59:50 now time to take the hall of blades code 21:00:04 dancing weapon chimera? 21:00:14 no I mean for the randomizing 21:00:16 anaconda (15S) | Spd: 18 | HD: 11 | HP: 42-78 | AC/EV: 4/16 | Dam: 603(constrict), 20 | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(44), 12drown | XP: 1139 | Sz: Large | Int: reptile. 21:00:16 %??anaconda 21:00:20 goody 21:00:24 or are you thinking a "hall of beasts" alternate to blade ;) 21:00:39 -!- Morphy has quit [Changing host] 21:00:51 a new dancing thing branch: hall of beats 21:01:06 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:01:08 you joke now 21:01:11 featuring the singing sword? 21:01:19 the dance-dance-revolution branch 21:01:20 and shield of the gong 21:01:34 but when somebody dies to a quicksilver dragon-unseen horror-alligator snapping turtle chimera on zig:24 21:01:43 I will be the one cackling madly 21:01:46 the lost city of funkopolis 21:01:52 ASSERT(wpn) in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4850 failed. 21:01:52 %??dancing weapon; lemon unrand:shield_of_the_gong 21:02:03 todo: dancing shields 21:02:21 todo: dancing books 21:03:13 (do unseen horror chimera actually become batty and speed 25 and invisible) 21:03:59 they'll only get the invisibility if the first part is unseen horror 21:04:05 and also the speed 21:04:17 however any of the three parts being batty will mean that the chimera is batty 21:04:37 Batty is quite a nerf if they don't get the speed that goes with it 21:05:08 Like, it might as well cut their effective speed in half, when it comes to attacking 21:05:18 hmm ... i guess they *could* take the speed of whichever flying monster they got the wings from 21:05:19 -!- Zermako has quit [] 21:05:28 this would certainly make things a bit more extreme than at present 21:05:38 Or, at least batty should convey a speed boost to non-batty things 21:05:52 (In my opinion, anyway, since it's a pretty noticable melee nerf) 21:06:07 And by getting a bat, you're already getting a pretty lousy attack :P 21:06:09 in general i could add slightly more complex interaction between the three parts, at the moment the second two parts don't do anything significant other than attacks/spells 21:06:13 Without nerfing all your other attacks, too 21:06:30 maybe cut batty sub-monster speed in half, then do some kind of average, then back convert if the whole thing is batty 21:07:12 elephant slug-orb spider-(turtle) chimera 21:08:07 who do i bride to update cdo 21:08:11 we need fightclub 21:08:42 spells means just breaths and not abilities, right 21:08:43 who do you bride, or bribe? 21:08:50 either 21:08:56 mumra will marry into power 21:09:01 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 21:09:02 whichever they want 21:09:17 frayedgost: spells, breaths, abilities, whatever 21:09:36 well, anything that's actually in the special ability function or their spell list 21:09:41 special-cased stuff won't work 21:10:11 Orb spider sounds like a really nasty chimera with a high HD thing 21:10:21 ... hmm, now i really need to finish off this boulder beetle stuff, and get rolling chimeras working ... 21:10:22 orb chimera 21:10:29 fortunately unless it's on something deliberately slow like said elephant slug 21:10:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:10:36 the monsters will probably walk into their orbs? 21:11:16 Can any monsters of this kind haste themselves somehow? 21:11:23 Trying to think of an example, but.... 21:11:28 bears 21:11:38 Well, they can't cast orb of destruction in that case either :P 21:11:53 they can if it's a yak-bear-spider 21:12:12 fr implement like a 2 hd beetle that casts firestorm just so chimeras can get it 21:12:19 oh, i guess it probably can't cast orbs while it's berserked? 21:12:22 Yes 21:12:24 That's what I meant 21:12:25 i have no idea how it works with monster spells 21:12:32 Well, a spell's a spell 21:12:51 some monster spells are "natural abilities" though 21:12:55 particular orb spiders 21:13:10 I am fairly sure they can't use them while berserk anyway, though 21:13:22 -!- Sizzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:43 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:38 (I didn't even bring up moths yet) 21:17:03 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:11 auras probably won't work yet 21:17:29 of course I wasn't thinking of _those_ moths 21:17:46 but basically, if you need specific effects to work, it's quite easy to do it for individual effects 21:17:58 but supporting absolutely everything is way too much work, it'd required special casing the entire code 21:18:04 * Grunt makes a minor adjustment to an earlier patch of his: http://sprunge.us/SJOG 21:18:16 or reworking lots and lots of things, no doubt 21:18:35 alright alright alright 21:18:55 I will just keep my ideas to "one mean attack and/or self enchantment + one "projectile"" 21:19:12 (alligator swiftnessssssss) 21:19:17 well, if you say to me "i am using [xyz] moths can their auras work" then i can go and do that 21:19:22 -!- myrmidette_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:19:37 but there's no point enabling a specific effect unless you're actually using it 21:19:51 i already caught all the ones where it was easy to catch multiple effects in a single place 21:20:55 i'd still like to improve the body parts a bit, so e.g. the description might tell you what tail it has as well, and pick a tail attack from one monster 21:20:56 etc. 21:31:01 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:19 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:34:35 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:36:08 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1774-gc8ffa77: Let chimera wings affect its speed 10(70 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c8ffa77dd4fa 21:37:12 haha, who added "Though so." ? 21:37:17 s/Though/Thought 21:37:36 yak-bat-bat chimera is suddenly terrifying 21:37:41 maybe i went too far 21:38:33 dragon-bat is even better 21:39:28 tarantella-fire bat 21:39:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:40:33 damn 21:40:37 add 'y' as a suffix to each part to make it less terrifying: dragony-batty-yaky chimera 21:40:37 i forgot about clinging 21:40:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:41:17 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:11 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:24 Grunt: This basically makes OOD monsters much less OOD on average, yes? 21:42:33 Only on very early dungeon levels. 21:42:52 Do you remember the change I made to zombie out-of-depthness? 21:43:10 This is exactly the same concept. 21:43:14 I'm not sure about 'very early' here, given that it is a reduction to moderate OOD level at anything less than D:20 21:44:42 Plus, in this case, zombies are a lot more common than these OOD spawns anyway, no? 21:45:42 Depends. Do you consider vaults that place 8s and 9s to be rare or not? 21:46:19 Do they use these? (I actually don't know how relatively common they are on early levels anyway) 21:46:28 if "very early" means "before temple" then there's all of maybe one vault 21:46:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 21:46:33 and I hate that vault 21:46:43 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:47 (That vault is a large part of the reason I'm working on this, for the record.) 21:46:54 How about move that vault, then? 21:47:04 yes I don't know why I haven't 21:47:29 Like, the problem with zombie generation was (in my opinion) not that people were getting a rare early hill giant zombie or something, but that LOTS of people were REGULARLY getting them 21:49:03 This code cuts the moderate ood boost for D:5-10 in about half, so I am a little wary of that (and I am not sure that it even affects the super ood boost all that much, since the multiplicative part is still the same) 21:50:11 Like, I could agree to reducing it a little for the REALLY early levels, maybe? 21:50:34 But by D:7 or 8 or something I think you can be expected to deal with the rare scary ood thing 21:51:05 That's my opinion anyway 21:54:19 Oh, blarg. Somehow there's ANOTHER crash with this? But why the heck is place-population crashing in exper_value()? Why is it even calling that, I wonder? 21:59:27 -!- frayedgost has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:27 what is place-population, a test script? 22:05:46 isn't it calculating average xp per level or something? 22:05:47 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:07:08 Oh, haha, yes 22:07:11 Silly me, I forgot about that 22:07:31 Not that it explains the crash itself 22:07:43 It's asserting on this: 22:07:44 const monsterentry *m = get_monster_data(mons_base_type(mon)); 22:07:44 ASSERT(m); 22:07:52 So some kind of invalid monster, I would guess 22:08:03 needs an ASSERTM 22:08:32 To give more information on the monster itself, I guess? 22:09:08 ASSERTM(m, "Invalid monster: %s", mons_class_name(mons_base_type(mon))) 22:09:32 <|amethyst> I'd also include the monster type 22:09:37 mumra: Do you think a swarm monster blocking LOS along a path if it's relatively dense on the grid is an interesting mechanic? 22:10:00 <|amethyst> mon->type, so you know whether it's a skeleton, simulacrum, etc 22:10:35 gammafunk: Keep in mind that blocking LoS is much more frequently to the player's advantage than their detriment 22:10:59 DracoOmega: although in this case the thing that's blocking LOS is also homing in on you to do damage 22:11:01 DracoOmega: Yeah, that is a problem. For summoners blocking LOS can be more detrimental, but that's just summoners 22:11:32 Melee Attack Calculation Error by Masupups 22:11:32 mumra: Well yes, but possibly also making its friends behind you not see you? 22:11:55 initially i would say no, it's probably not a good thing to do, at least non for monster-cast swarms 22:12:15 and for player swarms, this wouldn't really work well with summons mechanics 22:12:26 yeah, there must be more interesting things that one could do with the mechanic 22:12:30 since if they blocked LOS then they'd no longer be able to attack the thing that was out of LOS 22:13:26 creating a swarm around yourself could maybe be an interesting defensive measure 22:13:28 Well, let's hope this helps get some useful info, since I couldn't reproduce the crash in-game at all (yet again) 22:13:50 Unrelated project of the moment: http://sprunge.us/ZIRS 22:13:55 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:14:49 grunt_projects 22:14:51 mumra: yeah, I'd like to start by thinking of something about the swarm monster that makes it substantively different from just having a lot of enemies attack you at once 22:15:14 really they're another flavour of damage-over-time 22:15:17 Grunt: What is the point of this, anyway? 22:15:32 however the swarmed status could convey other effects 22:15:48 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:06 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:08 Grunt: Like, I am legitimately unsure what the purpose of runed doors remaining runed once closed again? 22:16:15 DracoOmega: The idea, as was being discussed by some of the other devs earlier, was to let monsters open runed doors, but still preserve the "don't autoexplore through runed doors [not opened by the player]" behaviour. 22:16:55 (I favour anything that lets me un-nerf door_vault >_>) 22:17:12 Well, if the doors are open, presumably the threats instead are alreadying wander, yes? And thus the door isn't really a great warning stop against whatever you were being warned away from in the first place? 22:17:21 Hey, I favor unnerfing door vault, too! 22:17:40 But this feels like added complexity for unclear gain, at least at first glance 22:18:42 You said you mean to make this stop autoexplore for runed doors that you haven't opened yourself. Does this mean it will track which doors you open and which you don't? (I haven't read closely enough to notice if that might be there somewhere) 22:19:08 There is a FEAT_OPEN_RUNED_DOOR which is only generated in the event that a monster opens a runed door. 22:19:17 Oh, it doesn't turn into that when YOU open it? 22:19:19 No. 22:19:39 If you walk over a FEAT_OPEN_RUNED_DOOR, for that matter, it turns into a normal FEAT_OPEN_DOOR. 22:20:29 That feels a little unintuitive to me 22:20:45 Though it's not like an open runed door seems to do anything but stop autoexplore once 22:20:54 Well, I'm not really sure what the ideal behaviour there is. 22:21:07 In my mind, the point of a runed door is to prevent you from exploring in there until you deliberately do so. 22:21:17 mumra: so a simple swarm status might be: you get Swarm while you're adjacent to more than one tile of the monster, and while the status is active, you take some increased damage and have slowed movement, but you can actually move through these types of monsters 22:21:17 (i.e. to prevent autoexplore traps.) 22:21:31 If you're stepping onto a FEAT_OPEN_RUNED_DOOR, you're deliberately exploring into that area, so... 22:21:52 maybe it's active even if you're adjacent to one tile of the monster, in fact 22:22:23 I suppose the density of the monster on the grid would also effect your movement 22:23:05 Ah, dammit. Now that I have changed that assert, now it's not doing THAT, but simply crashing WITHOUT an assert or any other message, and so rarely that I can't reproduce it in a manner I can use -.- 22:23:32 (Xom thinks meddling with your code is hilarious!) 22:23:49 I may have to revise my estimation of when I'll be ready to push this stuff, at this rate >.> 22:24:02 * Grunt pushes DracoOmega. 22:24:08 Push now, ask questions later 22:24:22 Don't get too pushy now <_< 22:25:25 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:25:39 You push the commit. Your commit completely misses the repository! 22:26:01 Your commit hits the repository! The repository writhes in agony. 22:26:02 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:26:25 Like, I expected to be spending time tweaking population weights, not fixing the code that lets me do that :P 22:27:49 DracoOmega: maybe the value return by mons_base_type is broken 22:28:12 Well, at the moment it is crashing without ANY assert, so I expect this is something else. I haven't yet reproduced that OTHER crash 22:28:26 gammafunk: this is the idea, you can walk through them like clouds, but you get the status. they could possibly be implemented *as* clouds but this is awkward 22:29:30 it might hinder your movement a bit - e.g. if you walk into them there's a chance you'll either move there or melee with them 22:29:41 melee would reduce the cloud density if you hit 22:29:57 or you can use ctrl-direction and stand there flailing your weapon about but it won't be very effective 22:29:59 ah, that's a good way to deal with movement, rather than slow move 22:30:15 Interesting. It crashed even when I disabled my new code altogether 22:30:23 That is... confusing 22:31:54 And why do all these crashes now seem to have a single unlinked bread ration in them? 22:32:19 DracoOmega: you forgot to eat supper? 22:32:34 and that's the supper you forgot to eat :-) 22:32:41 that's my story and I'm sticking with it 22:32:43 is the bread ration the starting food? 22:33:12 Unlinked items have to be on the floor by definition, don't they? 22:33:26 is it to do with those D:1 guaranteed food vaults? 22:33:30 Yes, these crashes consistantly have a single unlinked bread ration, though the ration is often in different places 22:33:32 It's D:5 22:33:37 D:5 22:33:39 first_bread 22:33:39 mumra: wait what is this about D:1 food 22:33:46 Wait, really? 22:33:46 !vault first_bread 22:33:54 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/8071064 22:33:56 ah, D:5 not D:1 22:34:13 well, D:2-5 22:34:14 I am running these tests on D:5 22:34:17 yeah I was pretty sure the floor where it happened had a higher number than 1 22:34:48 Though surely it isn't a bug with the vault itself somehow? :P 22:34:50 presumably since you didn't generate any of the other levels it has to show up on D:5 22:34:53 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:02 presumably it is not a bug in the vault 22:35:30 But I am very confused if I have disabled all my new code and it is still crashing without assert, regularly 22:35:52 Like, maybe around 1 in 100 times the level is generated by this script (though I have not seen it happen when regenerating it in-game) 22:36:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:36:54 Crashing how? 22:36:57 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:37:09 without a clue, it seems 22:37:11 Well, I don't know. There's no error message, no stack trace, and nothing helpful in the dump 22:37:42 (This is where a debugger comes in handy...) 22:37:50 Yes, it might... =/ 22:38:31 !learn add twb-fix Most problems can be solved by installing Debian. 22:38:32 Syntax is: !learn commands/learn/add.pl TERM TEXT or !learn commands/learn/add.pl TERM[n] TEXT 22:38:36 Though interestingly, I told it to skip D:5, and it has generated like 400 times without a crash 22:38:55 !learn add twb_fix Most problems can be solved by installing Debian. 22:38:56 twb fix[1/1]: Most problems can be solved by installing Debian. 22:39:09 So maybe there really IS some bizzare interaction between place-population on that vault? 22:39:30 I can't see why, but.... 22:39:39 If there is, I'd be able to generate it here, yes? 22:39:57 * Grunt starts churning out a debug build... 22:41:05 Yeah, it's up to about 800 generations now without crash, when it was averaging 100 or less before 22:41:29 And nothing I can think of that I did on this branch touched anything relevant (though possibly something I CAN'T think of did) 22:42:02 i'm 100% sure it's that vault 22:42:09 but i have no idea why that should be 22:42:28 but ... chance 100%, involves a bread ration ... what else could it be? 22:42:34 mumra: that's causing the problem, or just making the ration 22:42:45 both 22:42:52 Yes, though I don't know if the vault is causing the crash, or the item is just unlinked because it's crashing before it gets a chance to link it 22:42:57 well the problem is likely to be that some other vault is placing _over_ it 22:43:01 I don't see how it can really be the vault's *fault* 22:43:12 Well, unlinked items don't actually cause crashes on their own, normally 22:43:13 and i don't really understand exactly what effect the 'extra' tag has 22:43:23 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:33 I think it makes the builder keep placing vaults? 22:43:35 It means that it doesn't count as the 'main' vault on the level, and a main vault can also exist there 22:43:47 That's not 100% accurate. 22:43:48 like "oh that one doesn't count towards the quota? okay." 22:43:58 A level can normally generate with one primary vault and one mini-vault. 22:44:11 The "extra" tag indicates "don't count this vault against that limit of one and one". 22:44:13 -!- eurtek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:44:15 (Yes, possibly I shouldn't talk, since vault stuff isn't my domain >.>) 22:44:17 oh really? only that many? 22:44:34 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:26 Okay, yeah, back to D:5 and it starts crashing again 22:46:36 DracoOmega, I've place-population-generated 300 or so D:5s without incident now. 22:46:44 No unlinked bread ration in that dump, though... 22:47:16 Bah 22:47:18 Thanks, though 22:47:21 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:30 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:33 Do you have any odd non-standard vault definitions in your source tree, possibly? 22:47:59 Non-standard in what way? 22:48:08 As in, something not currently in trunk. 22:48:58 Hmmm... I suppose there are a couple edits in one specific context. I wonder if any can place that early? 22:49:33 Though outright invalid monsters and things in vaults should be caught on launch, yes? 22:50:13 Normally, yes, but if vaults are doing strange things in randomisation and/or triggering bad codepaths in specific circumstances, that doesn't always turn out to be the cas. 22:50:16 *case 22:51:30 Hmmmm... Well, that doesn't really explain why it happens only on D:5 and nowhere else. Well, I suppose unless there was some strange and specific code in one of them 22:54:43 Hmmm... I wonder now if you may have been right.... 22:55:05 ??? 22:55:06 well if it really is triggered by the food vault (wherever the blame truly belongs), I think doing this on D:5 guarentees that places the first time around? 22:55:18 I don't think the food vault is at fault 22:55:43 Grunt: Well, I found a changed vault that could generate at D:5 and disabled it and then it ran 200 times without crashing 22:55:49 Grunt: Though the only change was a renamed monster 22:56:05 ...o_O? 22:56:37 Now you have me wondering what this change is and if I could reproduce the crash with that change. 22:57:12 Well, as discussed a while back, I upgraded wolves to war dog stats, then replaced war dogs with them 22:57:20 This is the gnoll camp serial vault 22:57:38 That should be literally the only change to it 22:58:05 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:59:21 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:59:30 Well, if it really is that, you could try making the change and then playing with the vault weight to see if it stops crashing / guarantees a crash / etc. 23:00:04 Well, that's what I said I did 23:00:14 I disabled it, and it didn't crash. I made the chance 100, and it seems to crash a lot more. 23:00:26 Not that this makes much sense to me 23:01:11 Possibly it is unrelated and stuff is clustering by random chance when I edited that 23:01:22 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:01:47 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1775-g6c024ba: Add new random functions random_real_inc, random_real_avg, random_range_real 10(4 weeks ago, 2 files, 28+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6c024bad6f09 23:02:03 * Grunt stares at Chei. 23:02:53 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:02:58 DracoOmega, if it really is this vault, why is it only happening on D:5 when the vault places on D:5-10? 23:03:16 Beats me 23:04:46 (What we really need is to get someone who can get a debugger on the thing to reproduce the crash <_<) 23:04:53 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:05:12 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 23:05:12 I would be so very happy just to get a stack trace here ^^; 23:05:16 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:05:24 maybe someone who didn't get their CPU in a box of cracker jax 23:05:53 heh 23:06:44 Well, I got it on D:6 twice then 23:07:16 -!- William is now known as Guest45599 23:07:36 Okay, now I am getting it on later depths even with that chance reduced to 0, though PREVIOUSLY I had generated tons of stuff that way without issue 23:07:58 ... so it's probably unrelated to the vault. 23:07:59 I am, uh... actually my text editor crashed earlier today with some kind of memory access error 23:08:05 ... 23:08:17 I am wondering if MAYBE I have some sort of other issue locally >.> 23:08:32 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:02 have you switched your computer off and then on again 23:09:03 uh... 23:09:04 :P 23:09:05 what's that thing called, memcheck? 23:09:14 mumra: I have not, no 23:09:14 you might consider running it 23:09:28 your RAM could be broken 23:09:35 first restart your computer ;) 23:09:40 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:40 mumra: "have you tried turning it off and on again?" 23:09:42 <_< 23:09:46 memtest maybe 23:09:58 That mightn't be a bad idea, but I think it takes freaking forever, no? 23:10:00 anyway you need to boot into the one(s) I'm thinking of 23:10:01 Like, multiple hours? 23:10:06 possibly 23:10:07 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:10:13 It does take a while. 23:10:15 Grunt: the tech support habits are hard to kill 23:10:26 Grunt: and i have an extremely good success rate with that piece of advise ;) 23:11:51 I mean, the fact that Crawl crashes on startup for me with memory errors all the time is something that I've just sort of grown accustomed to, though I HAD idly wondered if it represented some other kind of problem, but no other software of mine seems to suffer obviously from it 23:12:03 just like everyone else who's ever done tech support mumra =P 23:12:16 You could just push everything and see if it crashes >_> 23:12:30 Grunt: But it's not ready yet even if it WERE working! 23:12:51 Who cares about pushing things when they're ready these days? :b 23:12:53 DracoOmega: you could push it to a branch with a suitably forbidding name 23:12:55 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:57 Grunt: I do! :P 23:13:18 (I am not being serious in the slightest here, for the record :b) 23:13:24 Hehe, no worries 23:13:47 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:14:09 There are the unfun kind of technical delays, sadly 23:14:11 These* 23:15:24 Okay, I stashed all the stuff I was working on but hadn't commited yet, and now it's managed to pass 400 generations without issue. Even though I HAD disabled the code that I just stashed. I am pretty sure. >.> 23:16:19 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:16:49 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:11 The wait is worth it if tentacle plants are the result 23:17:29 Haha 23:17:38 That is one of many results, yes :) 23:18:55 At first I thought of that terrible scene in Evil Dead, but I think it'll be more like Little Shop of Horrors 23:20:27 Little Shop of Horrors is certainly what i've been thinking of every time tentacle plants have been discussed 23:20:33 fr unique plant "Audrey" 23:21:36 dialogue: Feeeeed Me! 23:22:01 Um, hmmmm.... 23:22:01 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 23:22:02 "Feeeeed me, @the_player@" 23:22:11 I, er, might have an idea what the problem is 23:22:45 there's literally nothing better than the dentist song 23:22:45 Oh wait, no that couldn't be it 23:23:48 Well, maybe it is. Will need to check something. 23:23:53 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:59 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:25:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:29:59 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:33:09 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34:09 -!- blackcustard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:43 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 23:34:43 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:06 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:36:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:36:53 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:35 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:41:11 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 23:41:30 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:43:27 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:02 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-1775-g6c024ba (34) 23:44:49 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:45:29 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:48:23 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:51:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:51:44 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:53:58 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:54:55 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 23:55:26 -!- whig has quit [] 23:56:48 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 23:57:31 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:58:11 -!- Arkaniad|Desktop has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.]