00:00:59 -!- GuraKKa1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:02:35 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:02:36 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 00:05:37 ??divine protection 00:05:38 I don't have a page labeled divine_protection in my learndb. 00:05:47 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1323-gfddfa6a (34) 00:06:03 -!- Talesweaver has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:06:38 pacified creatures are really annoying. Can we make them less annoying? 00:08:41 -!- pelotron has quit [Quit: ~Internet()] 00:11:50 man I am not very good at boggle 00:12:07 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:13:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1323-gfddfa6a (34) 00:17:47 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:18:23 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:19 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:21:29 ??crosstraining 00:21:30 cross training[1/1]: Some weapon skills train twice as fast if you have another skill at higher level. Pairs that allow cross training are Short <-> Long Blades, Maces <-> Axes, Axes <-> Polearms, Polearms <-> Staves, Maces <-> Staves also Slings<->Throwing. 00:22:07 bh: there are some open mantis tickets relating to pacified monsters with a number of suggestions 00:23:35 bh: which of these weapons should i go with? been training m&f cos i have Devastator, but just found a +10,+6 mithril axe of speed 00:23:52 mumra: I'm not bad-dev by accident 00:25:08 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:26:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 00:29:13 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:14 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 00:30:16 oh wait i missed SE destruction 00:30:30 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:01 -!- Vbitz has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:33:38 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:35:29 mumra: did you catch the grotesk->gargoyle renaming? 00:35:56 yeah saw that, not as exciting as speciecide :P 00:36:05 Make djinn actually immune to mortal fire by qoala 00:38:20 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:38:52 mumra: the +5 leather armour "Thuiz" or the +1 leather armour of a bazaar (worn) {Str+2 Int+5} 00:39:32 bh: since you don't particularly need the int, i'd go with +5 00:39:44 unless you were casting spells or something 00:39:54 the +5 is rF, but so what? :) 00:40:17 well that's got 4 more + than the other 00:40:20 and + is good, I hear 00:42:25 aw so now we don't have 27/27 for races/classes 00:42:29 don't you guys care about symmetry!? 00:43:00 hmm :-( 00:43:05 bh: quick 00:43:17 add something else? 00:43:22 yeah! 00:43:38 before another one gets axed 00:43:39 umm.. a new class. Like wanderer, but really bad 00:43:49 wait we don't need another class! 00:43:52 that's even worse 00:43:53 no a new race 00:43:58 (but bring back jester) 00:44:01 we wanted 27/27, did you miss that? 00:44:05 how about a race that sucks? 00:44:09 like a dog race 00:44:11 wargs 00:44:12 (I didn't know what direction the count went in) 00:44:23 bh: we just axed SE right 00:44:29 ah, right. 00:44:43 bring back MD =p 00:44:50 how about this: Great apts, but you get bad mutations as you level up 00:45:00 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:45:30 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1323-gfddfa6a 00:46:01 how about HD 00:46:17 like MD, but all the apts are worse and they have lame beards 00:46:45 -!- dupo has quit [] 00:47:08 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:48:44 or maybe Garden Dwarves, who have a dysaffinity for dungeon structure and keep forgetting bits of the map 00:49:08 WalkerBoh: there's no sensible way to bring back jesters. Nemelex as a starting god is bad 00:49:34 haha yeah bh, giving CK a chaos weapon was a good compromise 00:49:43 that was the only really fun part of jesters... besides pies 00:50:00 bh: because of Experience, or Wild Magic? 00:50:01 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:50:02 or just both 00:50:12 also the summoning sucks 00:50:14 i still want a farmer background that starts as a fedhas zealot 00:50:19 it's a generalist god 00:50:27 fedhas starting god sounds really fun 00:50:40 I've never played fedhas seriously 00:50:47 then you're doing it right 00:51:00 I played a MfMo of fed. flooded a bailey to survive. that was fun 00:51:10 the whole bailey? 00:51:19 fed is fun, but starting with mushroom men would be pretty silly 00:51:45 I think there was already some water in there. I just made some of it deeper so I could hide 00:51:49 oh yeah, what happened to "wandering mushroom" as player race ;-P 00:52:16 just play as a deep dwarf for wand recharge and keep zapping yourself with poly 00:52:22 i'd rather have a wisp race than a wandering mushroom race 00:52:22 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:52:26 SamB: it's a badform 00:52:41 that way your dreams of being unable to move near enemies will come true 00:52:46 yeah the race could be marked non-viable 00:53:50 hm. would gargoyles be less boring if they spewed petrifying clouds when they were petrifying? 00:58:10 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:10 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:59:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:22 -!- eb has quit [] 01:02:15 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:02:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:04:44 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:08:00 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:08:38 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09:29 The hill giant zombie appears confused. 01:09:31 um. 01:09:49 by the way, do gargoyles need to eat? 01:10:00 yep. they have slow metabolism:1 01:10:05 aren't they unliving? 01:10:19 WalkerBoh: you didn't read the manual, did you 01:10:27 i read it... once upon a time 01:10:31 SamB: trollololo? 01:10:37 "read" it 01:10:46 (that's okay; nobody wrote that part yet ;-) 01:11:06 but if they HAD it would have mentioned living stone 01:11:18 bh: isn't that right? 01:11:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:28 SamB: something like that 01:11:32 they're artificial, but alive 01:11:34 damn trick questions 01:12:09 I don't think anyone added djinn or lava orcs either 01:12:28 they could still all be reverted anyways though 01:12:41 I doubt they'd all get reverted. 01:15:00 my revert order estimate is: gr < lo < dj 01:15:06 -!- ketsa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:33 i still haven't played LO or Dj, but they both seem fun 01:15:56 Dj is broken 01:16:00 -!- blackcustard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:31 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:19 Dj is the most interesting in terms of having a unique mechanic; balance can be fixed 01:17:30 Lorcs are ... weird 01:17:39 ely probably shouldn't take them as followers. 01:17:55 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:14 is that just because tension is weird mumra? 01:18:38 it's more that i don't really get what they're trying to achieve 01:18:39 Does the temperature of lorcs depend on tension_ 01:18:50 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:18:59 --> ? 01:19:20 it's affected by tension, from what i understand 01:20:16 I think hungerlessness is the most op aspect of dj 01:20:46 DjBe all day 01:21:17 contamination is meaningless 01:21:33 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:21:35 Truth to be told. 01:21:43 I like the change there is at hand. 01:21:59 Now there's a bunch of actually different races. :v 01:22:58 I do like that they're all weird races. 01:23:41 gargoyles aren't weird enough yet, that's the problem 01:25:26 hm 01:25:34 I wonder how many variations of big armor there are. 01:25:51 plate, crystal plate, draon armour, maxwell's 01:26:43 Does dragon armor differentiate between normal/enchanted/randart? 01:26:50 I don't recall them doing so. 01:26:56 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:27:01 fr crystal dragon armour 01:27:07 ^ heh 01:28:45 bh, i think gargoyle's stoniness should define the race more 01:28:49 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:28:54 Oh it can. 01:28:55 BlastHardcheese: it's very tricky to get the crystaline dragon hide off a crystal dragon without fracturing it ... 01:29:07 mumra: I think I can reach D:27 without ever entering a branch 01:29:17 SamB: you have all the time in the world, however. 01:29:20 maybe I'll do Hells first. 01:29:27 bh: heh, nice 01:29:29 Well some 100 years, yeah. But still. 01:30:10 tbh i'm doing pretty well on this DjFi which probably implies it's very overpowered, but i've had lucky finds too 01:30:46 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:31:01 Well it's not like your take on Dj there is an unusual reaction 01:31:07 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:35:25 ice statue (128) | Spd: 16 | HD: 8 | HP: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | 11non-living, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 12cold+++, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 685 | Sp: b.cold (3d16), throw icicle (3d16), freezing cloud (2d17), ice beast | Sz: Large | Int: high. 01:35:25 %??ice statue 01:36:49 what if gargoyles had an ability to cast a low-power shatter on themselves? 01:37:25 maybe they could only do it while petrified 01:37:29 %whereis bh 01:37:29 bh the Purifying Djinni (L12 DjHe), a worshipper of Elyvilon, is currently in IceCv after 22796 turns. 01:37:35 mumra: The Ice Fiend turns neutral. 01:40:01 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:45:15 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:00 bh: lol 01:48:27 and the downside is equivalent to visiting the abyss for a few turns 01:48:53 You hunger for vegetation. -- bug :) 01:50:35 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:20 oops 01:53:26 oh well, goodnight 01:57:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:57:55 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:01 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:08:32 SamB: "You hear a blaring wail from the {cardinal direction}." still appears when the trap triggers in your los. 02:08:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:10:47 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:14:32 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 02:18:02 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 02:18:35 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 02:21:28 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:21:45 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:22:59 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:06 -!- the_glow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:35 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1324-g91b4c7b: Unrestrict DjHu. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=91b4c7be31a9 02:24:35 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1325-gc4d7560: Desc for Tomb->Forest stairs. 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c4d7560f62d6 02:24:35 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1326-g7b5b3f3: Remove toadstools from an entry vault. 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7b5b3f3dd12d 02:24:35 03Ed Gonzalez 07* 0.13-a0-1327-g136a266: Make Djinn actually immune to mortal fire 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=136a26692bfc 02:24:35 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1328-g82e39e6: Sync dolorous' (and one neil's) updates to the manual. 10(82 seconds ago, 1 file, 48+ 49-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=82e39e6427ce 02:25:28 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:15 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:26 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 02:29:02 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq has joined ##crawl-dev 02:30:32 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:31:31 -!- Zannick has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:31:35 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq is now known as Zannick 02:32:35 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 02:35:16 -!- qoala has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:16 -!- TZer0 has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:16 -!- jbenedet1o has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:16 -!- dosman711 has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:16 -!- brainwrinkle has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:16 -!- bd- has quit [*.net *.split] 02:35:16 -!- Ainulindale has quit [*.net *.split] 02:36:48 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:41 No more Wucad Mu-ing on Djs. 02:38:43 ):| 02:39:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:53 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:40:55 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:41:11 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:46 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:22 -!- ketsa has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Pale Moon 20.1/20130518142809]] 02:42:50 mumra (L17 DjFi) ERROR: range check error (80 / 80) (D:12) 02:43:01 whoa 02:43:15 look what you did 02:43:31 !tell DracoOmega Lamp of Fire: mumra (L17 DjFi) ERROR: range check error (80 / 80) (D:12) 02:43:32 mumra: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 02:43:38 !crash 02:43:42 uhh 02:43:45 !crashloh 02:43:46 !crashlog 02:43:56 !lg * crash 02:43:57 No keyword 'crash' 02:44:21 !tell DracoOmega http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/mumra/crash-mumra-20130531-074249.txt 02:44:22 mumra: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 02:45:39 that is probably a good cue to take a break anyway 02:46:22 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:51 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:53:30 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54:02 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 02:55:25 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:55:36 -!- fiyawerx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:56:40 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:58:43 why do forest fires burn out so easily? 02:59:32 I want to set the swamp on fire but it is going to take a lot of wansd :( 03:02:04 -!- NarcissusIII has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:03:47 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:41 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 03:05:32 huh 03:05:51 I don't think this is supposed to be happening. 03:05:52 You feel a little less mighty now. 03:05:52 _Your memorisation is interrupted. 03:06:20 i think suddenly becoming meeker would be enough to interrupt the concentration 03:06:37 The book suddenly feels much heavier! You drop it. 03:07:11 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 03:07:23 rast: IT'S A SWAMP 03:08:01 mumra: well yeah but fire doesnt spread too well even in non watery areas 03:08:03 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:08:38 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:42 trees don't tend to be tinder-dry except in particular climates 03:10:38 and yet IRL we have massive forest fires all the time.. 03:12:03 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:13:40 yes but they require massive forests 03:13:49 a few scant trees in a dungeon isn't really enough to get a good forest fire going 03:15:04 seriously though, i don't know what we'd gain from making forest fires spread 03:17:22 a very cheap way to modify terrain and kill most monsters? 03:18:13 well exactly, i wouldn't call that "gain" ;) 03:19:28 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1329-g3b102e7: Reduce many D entry vaults to a single entrance. 10(6 weeks ago, 2 files, 141+ 146-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3b102e7424d3 03:19:28 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1330-g43db1b3: Remove superfluous entrances from all of entry/large.des 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 30+ 20-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43db1b336ef4 03:19:30 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:20:25 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:34 What are you guys doing to the entry vaults 03:24:25 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:33 -!- kait__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:18 -!- Jevouse has joined ##crawl-dev 03:26:05 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:27:45 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:23 -!- kait_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:29:44 what kilobyte said 03:29:57 its FUN to kill monsters with big fires 03:30:23 the places that have forests arent exactly the most difficult in the game to begin with 03:30:31 just annoying 03:30:32 burn yiuf burn! 03:32:37 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:33:15 -!- Mumcon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:33:25 -!- lion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:33:42 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:27 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:42 Jevouse: if you have a good source of fire on dl:2, sure 03:36:32 he doesn't always show up on DL:2 03:37:11 whatever, its not like sometimes making it easier to kill yiuf is bad 03:37:33 yes, i've stopped dying to yiuf 03:38:04 its not like you ever have to face him when you aren't ready 03:38:15 pretty much 03:38:26 he spawns asleep and the forest hides your approach 03:38:58 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:39:47 being able to use terrain that only randomly and rarely places (or places *everywhere* in two specific branches) to kill everything isn't actually interesting 03:40:08 it wouldnt kill everything.. the individual fires don't last forever 03:40:16 so you want more consistent clumping then? 03:40:40 and im OK with the water retarding the fire, if thats even happening 03:41:01 it's useful when you can lure those herd mobs into it and then set it on fire 03:41:05 its just that fire spread really badly even in dry areas in crawl 03:41:40 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:41:42 it almost seems like the fire is decaying.. the first tree burnt is really good at setting adjacent ones afire 03:41:44 dungeons are damp 03:41:54 but in turn they dont spread fire well 03:41:57 which is ridiculous 03:42:08 yeah 03:42:35 so if you really want a raging forest fire to eat everything u need to work at it 03:43:30 rast: well, I carefully tuned forest fire spreads when I added trees in the first place, to what I felt should make the fun for pyromaniacs but not trivializing killing monsters 03:43:45 it's probably still too good vs spriggans 03:43:53 kilobyte: does "carefully tuned" include some kind of decay mechanism that i mentioned? 03:44:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:44:02 rast: no 03:44:19 how does it work exactly kilobyte 03:44:23 mumra: Sounds quite a bit like something that would fit into Nethack. 03:44:25 rast: it's stateless except for individual fires' intensity 03:44:47 and initial intensity is based on...? 03:44:59 just the fuel source/spell/whatever? 03:45:33 fixed 03:45:45 so conjure flame is the same intensity as fireball? 03:47:05 yes 03:47:29 and intensity diminishes with time, and so does chance to spread 03:47:55 -!- Brawndo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:48:43 both initial and secondary fires have random2(30)+25 units, it doesn't affect their ability to ignite other trees 03:48:47 but if it does spread, the new fire has max intensity again? 03:48:55 yes 03:48:59 hmm ok 03:49:07 what *is* the chance to ignite another tree? 03:49:51 intensity does affect clouds spawned in the air, but those can't ignite trees 03:51:56 there's an independent 1/20 chance for a burning tree to ignite any neighbour 03:52:10 hrm... per turn 03:52:34 ie, looks like hasting yourself makes fires nastier :( 03:52:47 that makes no sense 03:53:04 omg recode 03:53:30 to aum! 03:53:33 no 03:53:33 aut 03:54:01 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:54:09 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:54:16 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:54:23 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:54:39 is tyrsky looping or something 03:54:40 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:54:53 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:54:56 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:55:08 looks like haste affects about everything about clouds 03:55:15 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:55:17 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 03:55:28 oh dear 03:56:27 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:58:25 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:58:41 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:58:53 wth is up with tyrsky? 03:59:08 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:59:11 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:59:14 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 03:59:40 not sure but its probably happening in the Temple 04:00:22 -!- ag- is now known as bd- 04:01:48 it isn't showing up on ##crawl though... 04:03:13 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:04:39 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:10:00 Hot lava orcs can't learn spells from Vehumet by nubinia 04:17:39 -!- BonSequitur has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:49 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:27:34 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:34:04 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:27 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:36:29 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:37:35 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:43:08 -!- Alexor has quit [] 04:47:15 -!- Sealero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:47:46 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:48:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:40 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:51:44 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 04:57:04 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 04:57:46 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:30 Djinni should not be able to cast Necromutation and other Physical mutations. by Xion350 05:01:35 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 05:02:13 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 05:05:04 -!- brainwrinkle has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:15:54 what? i thought djinn were meant to be the resist-everything, no-drawbacks, all-benefits race 05:16:14 djinni should be able to cast necromutation but still be able to drink potions 05:16:22 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:21:53 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:32 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:30:49 should they just start with the orb? 05:32:03 start with the orb on zot :5 05:32:04 right 05:37:58 @??orb of fire 05:37:58 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 11437 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 05:39:08 beh, malmutate and damage that's partially physical 05:39:22 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:39:52 !lg * win crace=djinn 05:39:53 No games for * (win crace=djinn). 05:39:54 !lg * win crace=djinni 05:39:55 5. POSSIBLYLAINIW the Farming Djinni of Death (L27 DjFE), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-05-31 06:04:18, with 6630517 points after 293156 turns and 15:31:07. 05:39:55 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 05:40:34 DjFE is probably like DEFE only with a shakier start and more fire storm spam later on 05:40:35 -!- kickascii has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:41:23 flame tongues with your life 05:41:35 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:42:31 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:43:34 Actually, how would DjFE of Sif work 05:44:06 Wahaha's DjFE kicks ass, he used hardly any spells, going melee with Okawaru (and finally bribed Zin because of getting mutated out the wazoo) 05:44:43 second DjFE is a straight one 05:44:55 kilobyte: That makes almost as little sense as Blade-'s doing DjSu and not summoning 05:45:14 johnnyzero's DjHe is Wucad Mu cheese 05:45:45 ... demonblade had Wucad Mu too ... 05:45:51 (and Evilyon) 05:46:07 -!- y2s82_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:46:24 Djinn is really a synonym for abuse 05:47:30 Oh god, DjHe + Wucad Mu must be the dumbest 05:47:36 er, second dumbest 05:48:15 I noticed that I got temporary mutes in lich form for djinn 05:48:19 are they always temporary? 05:48:32 when I was max contam I mean 05:48:38 only from glow 05:49:25 ...wait, Djinn can go into lichform? 05:49:37 yep! 05:49:44 So they have immunity to extended 05:49:55 Lightli: demons can be transmuted; it hardly helps though 05:51:50 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:56:55 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:57:22 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: Arivia] 06:03:43 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 06:05:29 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 06:06:02 kilobyte: my djhe was based on wucad mu cheese -- wucad mu merely made an absurd combination even more stupid 06:06:02 er... /s/was /was not 06:07:19 kilobyte: surely Borgnjor's should work with them? 06:08:51 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09:16 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:47 half borgnjor cost 06:09:51 more stuff to abuseee 06:11:06 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 06:11:13 tyrsky (L7 DEFE) (Temple) 06:11:42 more tyrsky shenanigans 06:12:45 -!- Xjs|moonshine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:12:45 -!- codile has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:13:28 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:13:43 -!- Napkin_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:14 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:14:24 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:48 -!- Napkin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:16:27 -!- Zermako has quit [] 06:17:39 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 24.0a1/20130530031141]] 06:21:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:23:17 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:25:26 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Changing host] 06:30:55 what on earth is going on in tyrsky's crash 06:31:12 he enters the ecumenical temple and it crashes while saving the game 06:32:01 apparently whilst calling into a clua function to do with item annotations 06:34:29 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:37:12 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:27 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:21 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:42:39 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:43:25 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 06:48:48 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:52:53 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:53:56 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:15 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 06:55:21 -!- rebthor has quit [Client Quit] 06:58:10 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:52 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:24 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 06:59:30 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 07:09:33 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:09:41 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:09:41 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:10:37 -!- _D_ has quit [Client Quit] 07:11:24 -!- _D_ has quit [Client Quit] 07:12:16 -!- _dd has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:13:14 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:13:46 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:25 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:17:08 -!- dosman711` is now known as dosman711 07:19:11 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 07:19:40 -!- rkd has quit [] 07:20:24 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:25 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:23:35 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:26:19 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:29:02 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:30:44 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:37:18 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:40 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:42:09 Amulets of Guardian spirit not useless to Ds with mana shield by Grandiloquent Gentleman 07:44:11 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:35 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:45:04 GG 07:45:34 are you telling me there's a spirit guardian mutation 07:46:43 there is a mana shield mutation 07:47:12 which converts hp damage to mana on a 1 to 1 basis 07:47:44 Is it passive too? 07:47:54 yes 07:48:02 the horrors 07:48:33 that's only level 1 though 07:48:41 levels 2 and 3 greatly improve mp regen 07:49:21 oh, hrm 07:49:26 level 1 IS spirit guardian 07:49:27 lol 07:51:44 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:25 One thing about Djinn is that they're pretty crap as early casters. 07:53:48 Because they have halved theoretical mp and it drains their hp too. 07:54:12 yea, better just to enjoy the huge hp 07:54:27 and take advantage of no food 07:54:42 is this ##crawl now 07:55:29 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:55:48 -!- Roarke_ is now known as Roarke 07:58:35 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:05:35 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:07:10 -!- radinms has quit [] 08:08:06 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 08:08:59 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:39 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:13:35 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:07 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:19 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 08:23:31 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:31:11 -!- Duralumin_ has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 08:32:10 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:33:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:36:17 -!- shong has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:37:33 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:40:41 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:43:02 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:02 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:05 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 08:51:31 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:46 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:45 -!- fungee has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:55:32 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:09 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:43 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 08:59:55 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:45 @??ball of fire 09:00:45 unknown monster: "ball of fire" 09:00:51 @??orb of fire 09:00:51 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 11437 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 09:01:09 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:02:59 Antipode! It's a unique (blue or cyan) orb of fire that simulcasts Ozo's radiance (whenever it shoots fire), or Nullification (whenever it casts malmutate). It is also intelligent with self-contradictory dialog: "I love you. DIE!" "Is it hot in here? I feel cold!" And so forth. 09:03:09 what the fuck? 09:03:49 i saw sigmund on D:2 , fled up, went back down by a different exit, dove to D:3 and then saw sigmund again 09:03:51 !??? 09:04:00 Jevouse - he fell down a shaft. 09:04:04 aaaaah 09:04:05 wanker 09:04:35 -!- Nikolaos has quit [] 09:05:41 -!- eurippa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:41 Anyway. Lava Orcs: +3, these guys are cool. Djinn: +2 - do they do more weird cool stuff as they go up in level? Hard to keep them alive, at least for me. Grotesk: +1. Likewise, I assume the petrification trick is better at higher levels? 09:07:12 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:09:19 hrm, how d'ya look at .map files 09:10:52 <|amethyst> with a text editor 09:11:11 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:34 which one d'ya use |amethyst 09:14:49 ah, morgue doesn't save previous level layouts 09:15:20 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:17:00 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:19 ghtadm (L7 DEWz) (Temple) 09:17:21 ghtadm (L7 DEWz) (Temple) 09:17:26 ghtadm (L7 DEWz) (Temple) 09:17:29 ghtadm (L7 DEWz) (Temple) 09:17:31 -!- Pacra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:05 -!- ilyak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:18:29 oh god its the saving in the temple stuff again 09:20:16 what map files are you trying to look at? do you mean .des files? 09:20:25 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:26 i wonder if this temple stuff is related to the branch stairs change... 09:21:21 nah, i was just wanting to see where this jiyva vault was 09:21:40 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:22:15 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:23:00 |amethyst: do you have any idea about this segfault on entering temple? it's the second person i've seen have it. http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/ghtadm/crash-ghtadm-20130531-141718.txt 09:23:29 it's during Stash::write there's a call to some clua to do with annotating user items 09:25:13 -!- lainiw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:37 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:38 -!- lainiw has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:41 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 09:25:46 -!- myp has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:29:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:03 <|amethyst> mumra: hm, odd 09:32:34 <|amethyst> mumra: clua_push_item -> clua_new_userdata -> lua_newuserdata 09:32:41 it's happened twice today so i'm wondering if it's a recent change to something 09:32:53 <|amethyst> mumra: the only thing I can think of that would cause that is some kind of lua stack corruption 09:33:25 you can see it happens on multiple attempts by the same player to enter temple 09:33:30 same with the person who had it earlier 09:33:52 <|amethyst> a save backup would be nice 09:36:00 <|amethyst> ghtadm isn't playing currently, so I copied the save 09:36:05 <|amethyst> let's see if it happens again 09:36:16 <|amethyst> oh, crash on load 09:36:49 -!- Krag has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:58 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:37:49 previous dude is tyrsky 09:38:21 <|amethyst> oh, hrm 09:38:22 <|amethyst> #10 0x084fe234 in save_game (leave_game=true, farewellmsg=0x9a47ea4 "Unable to generate level for 'Temple'!") at files.cc:1609 09:41:11 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:41:23 <|amethyst> !lm ghtadm crash 09:41:23 4. [2013-05-31 14:17:27] ghtadm the Ruinous (L7 DEWz) ? (Temple) 09:41:24 <|amethyst> !lm ghtadm crash -2 09:41:25 3/4. [2013-05-31 14:17:25] ghtadm the Ruinous (L7 DEWz) ? (Temple) 09:41:25 <|amethyst> !lm ghtadm crash -3 09:41:26 2/4. [2013-05-31 14:17:20] ghtadm the Ruinous (L7 DEWz) ? (Temple) 09:41:27 <|amethyst> !lm ghtadm crash -4 09:41:28 1/4. [2013-05-31 14:17:18] ghtadm the Ruinous (L7 DEWz) ? (Temple) 09:41:30 <|amethyst> !lm ghtadm crash -4 -log 09:41:31 1. ghtadm, XL7 DEWz, T:4643 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/ghtadm/crash-ghtadm-20130531-141718.txt 09:42:09 <|amethyst> even the first one was load_level -> builder -> save_game -> ... -> same lua crash 09:43:17 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:44:00 <|amethyst> _dgn_verify_connectivity is failing on temple 09:44:10 <|amethyst> I wonder if this has to do with the upstairs changes 09:49:16 must be 09:49:20 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:59 although i successfully entered temple on my game an hour or two ago, it's intermittent 09:50:16 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:50:42 maybe dependent on specific vault 09:50:53 <|amethyst> hm 09:51:06 i think they are both roderic_octagonal_lattice_temple 09:51:13 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:51:16 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:51:30 -!- ground4 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 09:51:46 <|amethyst> in _fixup_interlevel_connectivity(), I'm seeing up_region = {-1, 1, -1} 09:51:50 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:39 <|amethyst> which is what causes the veto (up_region[0] should not be -1) 09:53:22 should be 0,1,0? 09:53:23 i tihnk it uses the wrong stair symbol 09:53:36 well, not the stair symbol for stone_stairs_i 09:53:49 really the system shouldn't require a specific stair 09:53:53 that seems silly 09:54:54 hmm no, it had the { glyph which should be right 09:55:24 it only ever had one stair marker which is the different thing from other temples 09:56:30 <|amethyst> hm 09:56:41 <|amethyst> I don't think I'm going to be able to figure this out before I need to go 09:56:46 <|amethyst> let me make the save available 09:57:34 it should be reproducible with &P 09:57:41 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:57:58 <|amethyst> http://dobrazupa.org/saves/ghtadm.cs 09:58:20 except, for some reason it's impossible to override the default temple map 09:58:47 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:48 Temple has its own codepath. 09:58:50 <|amethyst> hm 09:58:58 The game picks a temple at startup and always generates temple with that map. 09:59:00 <|amethyst> I just found out I have 220 hours of vacation saved up 09:59:05 <|amethyst> 120 of which expires at the end of June 09:59:06 (This is so that it can handle overflow properly.) 09:59:10 Grunt: can you see why this crash is happening 09:59:27 I need to finish waking up first, but I'll probably have a look at it. 09:59:39 I'm guessing it's the same basic issue that was causing Tomb to be unescapable. 10:00:04 Something (probably my changes to interlevel connectivity) means that STONE_STAIRS_I can sometimes get shuffled into something else. 10:00:08 *STONE_STAIRS_UP_I 10:00:10 <|amethyst> Grunt: hopefully the save can be recovered 10:00:33 i think if the map is fixed the save should work again 10:00:34 <|amethyst> Grunt: it crashed during level gen, which has been problematic before 10:00:39 <|amethyst> mumra: 10:00:40 a quick fix is probably to add the other two stairs 10:01:08 Grunt: can't the implementation be made to not care which stairs are there, just pick one of them at random? 10:02:18 |amethyst: locally i added the other two stairs and now that save loads 10:02:39 unescapable tomb, nice 10:02:46 fr tomb is always unescapable 10:03:04 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:03:24 <|amethyst> mumra: nicd 10:03:25 <|amethyst> nice 10:03:35 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1331-g3ecba5a: Add missing stairs to roderic_octagonal_lattice_temple to hotfix a temple crash 10(30 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3ecba5a86fc7 10:03:37 Lava Orc priests start with Zin by battaile 10:03:37 elliott: what, you missed that? best bug 10:03:38 <|amethyst> Grunt: btw, you have to kill me now... I lost my gargoyle to nikola 10:03:45 <|amethyst> !lg . 10:03:45 6564. neil the Eclecticist (L17 GrCj), worshipper of Vehumet, blasted by Nikola (chain lightning) on Snake:3 on 2013-05-31 14:20:47, with 145696 points after 44391 turns and 4:23:13. 10:04:10 shapeshifter zombies and simulacra and stuff is a bug right 10:04:28 hahaha 10:04:34 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:04:50 great bug, considering a massive part of Eronarn's theme was to have LO worship Beogh 10:04:54 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1331-g3ecba5a (34) 10:04:54 <|amethyst> they leave corpses, right? 10:05:13 pretty sure hopr is intentionally buggy 10:05:23 |amethyst: yes (though you can't animate them) 10:05:28 but... they're *shapeshifters* 10:05:28 <|amethyst> elliott: still? 10:05:40 n7 says he couldn't animate one anyway 10:05:51 I think these started appearing with the small/large zombie/simulacra unification btw 10:05:56 so I am really inclined to consider it a bug 10:06:23 <|amethyst> hm, they're still marked as M_NO_ZOMBIE 10:06:37 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:07:31 <|amethyst> has anyone seen a zombie? 10:07:38 <|amethyst> I've seen shapeshifter simulacra 10:07:55 * Grunt klls |amethyst. 10:08:06 * Grunt kills |amethyst too. 10:08:11 !log neil 10:08:11 6563. neil, XL17 GrCj, T:44391: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/neil/morgue-neil-20130531-142047.txt 10:09:21 |amethyst: n7 sez yes 10:09:44 <|amethyst> Grunt: I don't know what happened to that TeCj 10:09:53 -!- brainwrinkle-fre is now known as brainwrinkle 10:09:55 |amethyst, that's what I was looking for <_< 10:09:59 !ttyrec neil 10:09:59 Broken query near 'neil' 10:10:12 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:10:12 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:10:13 good error 10:10:14 -!- Brawndo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:10:14 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:10:14 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:10:14 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:10:15 anyway simulacra don't make any sense either 10:10:32 <|amethyst> Grunt: I looked for him on the last level I saw him, and on the next level, to no avail 10:10:51 <|amethyst> Grunt: no tengu in the kills list so I assume he didn't die 10:11:36 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:12:03 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:27 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:49 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:14:13 <|amethyst> Grunt: don't know why I didn't think to release my DF 10:14:48 -!- bossrule has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:14:53 -!- flun has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:15:33 |amethyst: he wandered off somewhere on D:11 and never returned 10:15:34 . 10:17:05 -!- lion_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:18:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:19:57 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1331-g3ecba5a (34) 10:21:35 -!- ilyak has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:23:45 -!- Lightli has quit [Changing host] 10:26:47 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:58 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:28:24 -!- blabber has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:34 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:16 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:13 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Iceweasel 21.0/20130515140136]] 10:31:51 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:54 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1332-g40ff00a: Bump Lamia's exp modifier. 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=40ff00a47515 10:32:37 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:34:48 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:35:28 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:36:21 kill lamia for the glory, not the exp 10:36:30 heh 10:36:38 Kill her for her corpse. 10:36:43 WHAT THEN is another story. 10:36:59 :-) 10:37:26 Bloax: that's the type of degenerate filth we don't allow in a respectable channel like this one 10:37:54 whoops 10:37:56 unless you were talking about eating the corpse 10:38:00 eating corpses is fine 10:38:06 this channel allows anything bloax says? 10:38:18 (I'll be deeply surprised if it does.) 10:38:59 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:39:17 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:43:18 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:42 that would stop some people 10:46:22 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:52:08 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:03 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55:30 -!- absolutego_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:52 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:59:18 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:00:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:06:57 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1333-g1d24ae5: A couple of adjustments to high level tengu. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d24ae5c9f89 11:07:16 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:15 -!- Analord has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:18:22 -!- Guest81510 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:19:43 -!- Jevouse has quit [] 11:20:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:22:50 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1334-g1d0f5e9: _fixup_stone_stairs guarantees _STONE_STAIRS_UP_I for one-upstair levels. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d0f5e911e59 11:22:55 mumra: ^ 11:23:13 mumra: that should fix the temple problem, but I'm going to leave the vault alone for now to make sure that old saves work properly. 11:23:34 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:23:59 cool 11:24:31 (This bug wasn't my fault!!!) 11:24:38 hehe 11:24:42 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1334-g1d0f5e9 (34) 11:24:43 that's what they all say 11:25:01 No, really; this was a change made after my initial changes by someone else. 11:25:32 you mean that change someone made to fix the bug that _was_ your fault ? :P 11:25:56 %git ce26f17 11:26:00 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-1298-gce26f17: Allow fewer than three stairs on D:1. 10(20 hours ago, 1 file, 22+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ce26f17ce48f 11:26:21 aha 11:26:24 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1334-g1d0f5e9 (34) 11:27:00 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:29:31 -!- _D_ has quit [Client Quit] 11:29:46 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:37 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:34:28 -!- _D_ has quit [Client Quit] 11:35:35 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:36:48 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:55 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 11:40:34 POSSIBLYLAINIW the Magician (L1 GEFE) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 399: player of an invalid species (D:1) 11:40:49 lainiw: bwahahaha. 11:40:59 <|amethyst> wha? 11:41:16 sludge elves are fighting back 11:41:20 nice grey elf 11:41:24 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Butts] 11:41:25 yes, figured out how to undo the unjust murder 11:43:08 <|amethyst> was that an old save or what? 11:43:28 they need to be added to initfile.cc to stop them being selecting via rc 11:43:48 whenever i run my local build of crawl it doesn't do anything, just a black screen, doesn't even get to the menu 11:43:49 it was from adding race = ge to my rc 11:43:52 doesn't crash either though 11:44:07 <|amethyst> Mu_: try removing saves/db and saves/des 11:44:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:15 same thing 11:45:21 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:45:36 <|amethyst> what OS? 11:45:44 did you run from the commandline? 11:45:48 win7 11:46:01 same thing however i start it 11:46:12 I thought maybe you'd get some messages from the commandline 11:46:33 just doesn't do anything, i have to ^c 11:46:35 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:48:34 I don't suppose ng.weapon is saved in games? 11:48:41 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:20 Mu_: have you modified some .des files 11:52:00 ummmm maybe 11:52:37 Mu_: if you start it from the command line it should output some errors there 11:52:38 then you probably have some syntax error that the game doesn't display 11:52:48 -!- fungee^ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:52:51 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:53:06 -!- slitherrr has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:53:17 st_: syntax errors always get written out to the command line 11:53:52 -!- anichowy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:54:07 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:54:38 mine just sits @ './crawl' not saying anything until i cancel it, but i deleted a new des file and it worked anyway so ty st_ 11:55:31 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1335-g4695df1: Mark amulet of guardian spirit as useless with guardian spirit mut (#7118) 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4695df107a91 11:55:31 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1336-g6d74fee: Don't allow selecting invalid species via initfile 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6d74fee408aa 11:55:31 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1337-gd82a837: Don't allow selecting Jesters via initfile 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d82a837c79dd 11:55:35 <|amethyst> is there a reason jester isn't in an #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 like stalker is? 11:55:49 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:54 i was wondering about that just now too 11:56:04 sorry if i duplicated stuff you're doing :P 11:56:06 <|amethyst> also, don't those still need to stick around for ghosts etc 11:56:13 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: no problem 11:56:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:56:26 <|amethyst> the same way the old races still have enums 11:56:42 <|amethyst> I guess not, because it's trivial to change someone's job 11:56:53 <|amethyst> but changing race has actual effects 11:57:55 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:58:03 Don't allow selecting Jesters via initfile 11:58:11 ;_; 11:58:23 oh good the door colour bug is fixed 11:58:23 Mu_: hmm, strange. i do sometimes get this startup error on Win7+ where it just takes a few tries to start the game 11:58:32 i get that too haha 11:58:46 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:52 it seems pretty common on, well any version since Vista 11:58:56 other people have reported it 11:59:09 but nobody has any idea why it's happening, seems to be a file system read error 11:59:16 but I never get it with my MSVC builds 11:59:22 only msysgit 11:59:28 <|amethyst> mumra: I wonder if it has to do with threading? 11:59:40 <|amethyst> does the MSVC build use threads for the DB init? 11:59:44 (since you're on Windows 7 you can do VS2012 builds too) 12:00:02 |amethyst: i'm not sure 12:00:20 mumra: is that startup bug reproducible? 12:00:47 kilobyte: it happens about 50% of times i start crawl 12:00:48 mumra: if so, could you test using the DGAMELAUNCH code path in database.cc? 12:00:50 mine also used to stall and crash whenever i closed it, but that part seems to be fixed (..?) 12:01:06 to check if it's indeed threading, or something else 12:01:36 kilobyte: the error is often "can't find /dat/des/something.des" 12:01:47 so could that be anything to do with DB threading? 12:02:11 even "cannot find directory dat/des" 12:02:12 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6551 12:02:19 also https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5354 12:02:27 there seem to be about 3 or 4 different types of crash 12:02:36 sometimes there's no error and the windows crash dialog comes up 12:02:45 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1337-gd82a837 (34) 12:05:01 interesting 12:05:04 POSSIBLYLAINIW the Magician (L1 ElFE) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 399: player of an invalid species (D:1) 12:05:11 lainiw: having fun? 12:05:16 sorry 12:05:21 i just want to play as a yak so bad 12:05:21 kilobyte: i just tried the DGAMELAUNCH codepath like you said, crawl started without error about 10 times in a row 12:05:34 Yak, -99 to everything except unarmed <_< 12:05:57 kilobyte: so it does indeed appear to be threading 12:05:58 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:05:58 oh did i just miss it 12:06:27 cause i tested it offline first 12:06:45 galehar: are you here? 12:08:19 mumra: in MSVC builds only, right? 12:08:32 kilobyte: no, the opposite 12:08:34 only non-MSVC builds 12:08:49 this problem has been around for ages (one of those mantis tickets was reported by galehar) 12:08:59 hmm, strange, as it works for others 12:09:14 or at least, for official builds, nightly or not 12:09:21 lots of people seem to have this problem with standard builds on Win Vista+ 12:09:27 kilobyte: it's only when crawl is in a non-standard directory 12:09:46 such as? 12:09:52 kilobyte: i mean, when the save dir is in a non-standard directory 12:09:58 as in not your UserData folder 12:10:11 when you take a git clone 12:10:15 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:10:18 the save folder by default is in your source tree 12:10:24 and then you get these errors 12:10:42 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1338-g6fe9f07: Fix an info leak with amulet of rCorr 10(19 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6fe9f070f54a 12:10:45 but when you install a release, your saves go into your User folder, and everything is peachy 12:10:59 hmm, this sounds like the person is _compiling_ on Windows in those cases 12:11:01 (unless you go into init.txt and change your save folder to e.g. D:\Games\crawl\saves) 12:11:16 kilobyte: it can happen with a release if you change your save folder 12:11:38 but obviously it's a very annoying problem if you ARE compiling yourself 12:12:37 hmm, I don't get why that would work intermittently then 12:12:49 path problems should either always fails or always work... 12:12:56 this is Windows :P 12:13:05 sometimes it takes several attempts to start up, sometimes first time 12:13:18 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:30 and no simple strace to show why :-( 12:13:33 since it appears to be a threading problem, maybe it's some kind of race condition 12:13:34 yeah, but randomness of this kind is generally gone since Win98/ME :p 12:13:57 one thread accesses a file at just the wrong time when something else is trying to access it... 12:14:24 hmm ... i'll try an MSVC build again, if i *can* get the error in MSVC i can get a debug stack 12:14:28 does it happen under WINE too? 12:14:36 but it generally doesn't seem to happen there 12:14:52 if so, doesn't valgrind have a race detector you could use? 12:15:08 SamB: everyone who's reported it has been on Vista+, i haven't seen any mention of WINE 12:15:27 mumra: well it would normally be kind of dumb to run crawl under WINE 12:15:54 what version(s) of windows does WINE emulate? i suspect the problem won't be there anyway 12:16:03 but it's the only way I've heard of to valgrind Windows software 12:16:48 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:16:58 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18:40 djinn need low essence warning from spellcasting ... 12:18:59 -!- dienosore has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19:27 a complete different error i'm also getting is ERROR 501: glVertexPointer 12:19:31 again intermittent 12:20:20 hmm yeah, the problem just doesn't happen with MSVC builds. only msysgit. 12:21:36 -!- lorinal has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:23:16 I get it with the binaries too 12:23:23 and abilities and stuff ... 12:23:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:30:56 -!- mortalis is now known as lorinal 12:31:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:35:36 st_: where is your save directory 12:35:43 POSSIBLYLAINIW the Magician (L1 ElFE) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 12:35:57 sorry, that's the last time i'm trying it 12:36:00 it did work that time though 12:36:49 mumra: where ever it defaults to, which is apparently /crawl 0.12/saves/ 12:36:52 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:56 or whatever version 12:37:06 st_: is that inside your crawl folder? 12:37:11 yes 12:37:12 normally it defaults to somewhere in your user directory 12:37:20 did you use the installer? 12:37:21 or the zip? 12:37:26 zip 12:37:29 ah that'll be it 12:37:55 well that's still an official version that has the issue 12:38:18 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:39:59 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:42:43 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:43:30 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: rivs is gone! (/kick sami for me <3)] 12:45:07 another rc bug is that you can pick a draconian color to start out as 12:45:08 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:45:18 hahahaha 12:45:27 with race = Red Draconian, e.g. 12:45:38 wow that's good 12:45:47 really good 12:45:59 i would say just remove those silly options except for that the bots use them 12:46:00 someone has to be fired for this! 12:46:20 absolutego_: we don't fire people, we just abyss them 12:46:28 lainiw: oops 12:46:54 is that rc as in Release Critical? 12:47:52 huh, i meant my rc file like the yak bug 12:52:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:52:11 SamB just happens to be heavily conditioned into a different meaning of the term "rc bug". 12:52:12 another rc bug is that you can pick a draconian color to start out as 12:52:16 I would almost call this a feature. 12:52:36 it sounds kind of release critical 12:52:45 aye 12:53:06 I hate the design we have, but within the design, it's indeed serious 12:54:10 -!- flun has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:29 Hey, will Lava Orc Priests be able to worship Beogh at the start? 12:54:52 are lava orcs abominations unto beogh or are they acceptable? 12:54:58 flun: they're not able to worship him later either 12:55:12 but there's a plan to remove priests of Beogh altogether 12:55:30 other than being a priest who can switch 12:55:35 I think there's a lot of code that would need attention to let anything but hill orcs worship beogh properly? 12:55:36 there's just one issue: making the band you forcibly converted to not kill you on the spot 12:55:36 ah 12:55:43 why would you remove pr^beogh 12:55:53 without removing beogh, i mean 12:55:54 -!- fungee has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:56:10 absolutego_: well, the plan was to make beogh easier to get later 12:56:24 absolutego_: it makes it unviable to use any other class with Beogh 12:56:25 (not MUCH later) 12:56:28 why would you ever switch to beogh "later" 12:56:41 you're unlikely to get an altar until late Orc, and even then it's anything but guaranteed 12:56:43 absolutego_: well, say you wanted to start with different equipment 12:56:50 and stats 12:57:11 the idea is to let you convert when you meet an orc priest 12:57:35 that's plan A, anyway 12:57:53 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:57:56 plan B is an overflow altar 12:58:10 well, overflow altars seem saner 12:59:05 do you become a follower of that priest? 12:59:36 Zannick: that's the main issue 12:59:57 Zannick: unless the priest's attitude changes, he'd kill you immediately 13:00:07 that sounds like a nsty ball of snakes 13:00:12 if the priest gets the orb of zot and escapes with it do you win 13:00:31 not just that, but what happens if later on you encounter an orc high priest and decide *it's* the messiah? 13:01:21 or saint roka 13:01:24 indeed 13:02:09 it makes more sense for the priest to say something like "Are you the messiah?" (well, better phrasing than that, but still) 13:02:17 then if you convert the priest becomes your first follower 13:02:29 i hope you get the prompt each time you see a priest 13:02:31 hit p to kneel in front of the priest 13:02:32 all game long 13:02:36 It's you! The prophecy was true! 13:03:05 getting a guaranteed priest right away is sort of strong (and perhaps more importantly guaranteeing that the first priest doesn't murder you) 13:03:09 absolutego_: the last time this came up, the best idea proposed was to put a status light, and to hint it in the priest's speech somehow 13:03:17 not that HO chars are the most likely to die to priests 13:03:29 no one liked the priest breaking fourth wall 13:03:41 well he could still murder you 13:03:45 it doesn't have to 13:03:50 have a line of dialog from the priest 13:03:51 gotta show'em you're the chosen one first 13:03:59 haha 13:04:03 and then a game message saying "You can (p)ray now to convert to beogh" 13:04:07 although I guess a clearly separate line "(press X Y to convert to Beogh)" the first time you meet one could be acceptable 13:04:14 kilobyte: yeah 13:04:14 yeah 13:04:23 how about you can convert anytime 13:04:25 Mu_, I think Beogh would instasmite any priest that expressed that sentiment 13:04:28 there's little practical difference 13:04:50 The priest smites you! The priest shouts, "You were the chosen one! You were supposed to bring Beogh to the dungeon, not destroy it!" 13:05:17 perhaps the priest and his band could get pacified when you surrender? 13:05:20 bring Beogh to the dungeon to destroy it anyway 13:05:41 ie, you get no follower, but it's a guaranteed way out from dying to that priest 13:06:24 probably plausible 13:06:36 ie, the priest considers you a lowly peon rather than the chosen, lets you live and goes away 13:06:42 -!- Guest81510 is now known as magicpoints 13:07:05 you need piety to get followers anyway 13:07:32 well, consider that an orc band is the worst early game threat (as long as you don't die to hobgoblin or something) 13:08:05 kilobyte: the priest should get pacified definitely 13:08:08 It's probably sort of tied with centaurs 13:08:11 it could be interesting to give you a last resort i guess, in the early banishment lucy way, but it seems more annoying than anything 13:08:13 with the band it wouldn't break anything if some didn't convert 13:08:22 centaurs usually come much later 13:08:29 you'd just consider them immediate heretics and have a nice little bloodbath 13:08:39 do they start off worshipping no-one or Zin? will they incur wrath when they convert? 13:08:44 evilmike: current attitude code assumes that if you're not a friend you're an enemy 13:08:48 you're pretty much guaranteed priests and wizards by d:4, sometimes several of them 13:08:51 flun: priest background would be axed 13:09:06 all pr? 13:09:09 yes, that you are 13:09:14 Zin hates evil gods like Beogh, so yeah. But no one likes Pr^Zin. 13:09:24 i like pr*zin 13:09:32 do you even play crawl 13:09:37 i don't really play it, but i appreciate that it exists 13:09:42 if only recite did anything 13:09:44 oh, except elliott (and whoever else raises the hand) 13:09:50 o/ 13:09:54 absolutego_: i'm workin' on it!!!! 13:09:59 Zin is a very powerful god later, he's just not a D:1 choice. 13:10:09 if zin could be made into a proper starting god, priest becomes a proper starting class 13:10:21 I think some people were toying with recite 13:10:40 kilobyte: actually vitalisation is pretty damn good early 13:10:44 but he's not actually all that bad earlyish, since Vitalization is nice early 13:10:49 recite has been tweaked a bit, but is still not exactly the best early game ability 13:10:49 against a lot of things 13:10:52 yeah, I'd change Pr^Beogh but give folks a chance to improve Zin 13:10:53 SwissStopwatch: yeah, I am working on a recite buff 13:10:56 it is about half done 13:11:02 Also Imprison, actually 13:11:14 elliott: .... so where are the traps? 13:11:28 elliott: is the buff having it take 1 turn 13:11:28 i think the main problem is recite really 13:11:44 Recite kills Yiuf dead. 13:11:57 he explodes into a pile of chunks when you invoke it 13:12:00 Recite is worth using against some things early but 13:12:05 then you get his staff and abandon Zin 13:12:11 other times you will just straight up die if you try to 13:12:15 kilobyte: they're next on the list! 13:12:24 absolutego_: it is a duration instead (and I am tweaking the effects) 13:12:28 and it's not even so good against most of the good target, so ugh 13:12:33 well, that could work too 13:12:38 elliott: as in, you're free to do other things? 13:12:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:13:02 i'd hesitate to use it very early but it could work well afterwards 13:13:10 i think zin doesn't necessarily need to be a starting god even if recite is improved and made useful early, i doubt it would be as game-defining as berserk, pacification, xom are 13:13:26 if those were improved he'd be better to take at Temple, so 13:13:28 but seems fine to wait on the patch anyway and try it out first 13:13:28 perhaps not casting or reading scroll as that requires speech, but being able to preach while fighting would be nice 13:13:39 it is effectively silence 13:13:44 is the plan 13:13:53 I mean, especially if you could get a decent amount of piety with an initial gold gift (which I guess you might currently) 13:14:38 well you're with zin 13:14:45 that's pretty fucking game-defining :p 13:15:07 zin is a bit early-game-defining to some degree by his restrictions 13:15:09 well the good god restrictions do shut off a lot of good options for several chars 13:15:13 like not being able to eat anything :P 13:15:16 i mean it's like a CK thing 13:15:31 fist on the table 13:16:16 i think the fact that recite only has a time cost and a cooldown makes it potentially a big deal 13:16:46 few god abilities are "free" like that 13:16:47 it's also useless 13:16:50 well presumably it's not going to be made superpowerful 13:17:02 yes, i expect it will be much more relevant early-game with a combination of being able to use it without killing yourself + it actually having a decent effect without a lot of invo 13:17:20 (though i don't want to go crazy and make it super-powerful like the aforementioned berserk/pacify) 13:17:25 of course 13:17:51 well, berserk is powerful but you do have that no-spellcasting conduct, which is a massive penalty 13:17:53 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1339-g43c9961: Properly give forest drakes the drake genus. 10(55 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43c9961b08cc 13:18:01 yes, it's true 13:18:05 pacify actually costs a lot of food 13:18:51 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:18:56 they're both powerful but also basically force you to use them a fair bit 13:18:59 which doesn't deter anyone from using it constantly 13:19:14 If you want to go in on the playstyles, anyway 13:19:55 well, currently the zin conduct is mostly that you can't pick any other god (unless you're doing hells) 13:20:17 it'd be good to make his early power more usable 13:20:24 imprison is actually good 13:20:46 and i guess from what elliott says there will still be a multiple-turn trade-off? 13:20:53 maybe the real thing is that his abilities are good but extremely defensive in that they don't really let you solve any problems 13:20:58 absolutego_: well, it will just be a duration like tele or whatever 13:21:04 sanctuary and imprison let you solve problems 13:21:05 and affect things for that duration 13:21:06 which isn't particularly true of any other god 13:21:11 they delay them 13:21:30 "late game gods" is not the best concept 13:21:31 which might be enough to solve it, but often you'll have to do something else too 13:21:39 invincibility on demand solves problems 13:21:40 i like zin's "out of the way"-ness, i think it's something that shold be preserved (and i don't think it's a barrier to being a good starting god, it's just a different kind) 13:21:57 Sanctuary is sort of expensive at least 13:22:19 yeah, but you can donate gold to get some piety banked. if you fall below 200, you'll start gaining it back from that pool 13:22:22 But what I mean is that it's not like Lugonu who just straight up gets rid of things for you, or Okawaru who lets you buff up and kill them 13:22:23 you know, i don't think i've ever used sanctuacy 13:22:27 *sanctuary 13:22:35 because i haven't had to 13:22:38 which is my point i guess 13:23:07 you can get out of the fight, but Zin doesn't really help you be more powerful, rather just bails you out of stuff 13:23:10 maybe the closest effect in crawl to compare it to is a tomb card 13:23:20 so in my trunk build i just got a grand total of 14 vetos generating D:1 on a new game 13:23:32 I mean, when I won Zin Id efinitely wouldn't have done it without using Sanctuary but 13:24:32 I guess really his defining trait is that unless you're somehow making good use of the +Int boost from Vit you don't really get to be stronger with him 13:24:45 Which feels different from every other god to me 13:24:56 yeah 13:25:01 he is absolutely a "defensive" god 13:25:13 i like that zin doesn't make you more powerful on a turn-by-turn basis, i think st_ likes zin a lot because of that 13:25:37 Yeah, it's just weird because that makes him feel quite a bit worse than the other gods in a lot of ways 13:25:48 the int boost? really? 13:25:51 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:25:52 Well 13:26:00 I'm not sure what other offensive boost you could possibly get from Zin 13:26:16 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1340-g391323e: Resync manual from the wiki to fix a doubled word. 10(47 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=391323e85f8e 13:26:51 since +Str doesn't exist 13:28:38 mumra: I've seen it too, happens on branch entrances as well 13:28:42 like Temple 13:28:57 I guess it also just highlights how broken some other gods are, since Elyvilon is also defensive (and better than Zin at it) but also lets you instakill almost everything 13:29:27 ?? vitalisation 13:29:28 vitalisation[1/1]: Protects you from sickness, nausea, poison, confusion, petrification, rot and stat drain while active, and boosts your stats (up to +9 each, depending on Invoc skill). Gives a small amount of nutrition, but won't go past Full. 13:29:36 you can use some of those to kill things 13:29:44 rpois and clarity are good early 13:30:01 and Lugonu has a lot of abilities that function sort of like Zin's equivalent level powers, but also has an invocation that lets you murder a bunch of stuff almost-guaranteed 13:30:02 i still think piety costs are too low in general for a lot of abilities 13:30:18 (except for Lamia and Gloorx Vloq) 13:30:25 i mean it's marginal, but more significant than +int :p 13:30:35 that's because... they are? 13:30:35 ??ely 13:30:36 elyvilon[1/4]: The divinity of healing. Most reliable source of protection from being killed while praying, but will impose penance (i.e. not answer your requests for help) if you kill living creatures while praying. Provides healing invocations, but dislikes cannibalism, the use of necromancy, and allowing allies to die. 13:30:51 ??ely[2] 13:30:52 pacification[1/4]: Followers of Elyvilon can pacify monsters with healing abilities and wands of healing. Success rate depends on invocations skill and the strength of the healing ability in comparison to the monster's maxhp, modified mostly by holiness. Piety is not involved. Pacifying a monster gives half the normal xp and has a chance of raising piety. 13:30:58 Right, I guess I'm sort of aware that that's your opinion on god abilities 13:31:03 ??ely[3] 13:31:03 divine vigour[1/1]: Divine Vigour restores some HP and MP and temporarily increases max HP and MP. 13:31:09 ??ely[4] 13:31:10 elyvilon[4/4]: no you fucking moccasin the stairs are right there dont walk away from them no why arghh 13:31:16 well, consider heroism, you can use that practically every fight that matters 13:31:21 Them being superpowerful and usable frequently seems almost integral to the game's balance, but I've never played it any other way 13:31:27 finesse actually costs something, you need to pay attention to when you use that 13:31:37 SwissStopwatch: maybe something to do with silver; converting ammo to silver? giving melee weapons a unique silver brand? 13:31:43 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1341-ga2639ac: Fix monster shape detection for new tengu, and simplify for turtles. 10(50 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a2639aca4ce5 13:31:54 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:32:04 It'd be weird to give Zin two 6* gifts 13:32:06 "monster shape detection?? 13:32:23 SamB: you didn't realise how advanced the AI was huh 13:32:47 SamB: these monsters know how to fit blocks through holes alright 13:33:05 ... what ... holes? 13:33:08 so are tengu good at tetris now 13:33:11 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:15 SamB: you know, that toy you give to babies so they can learn shape recognition and spacial awareness and stuff 13:34:20 that's how we train our monsters 13:34:24 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:34:58 silver ammo, really :p 13:35:16 SwissStopwatch: converting ammo to silver is a zin patch on mantis 13:35:22 imo it's a silly idea 13:35:22 er 13:35:24 i meant mumra: 13:35:37 right, i thought i'd seen it somewhere 13:36:23 silver ammo isn't even that good 13:36:34 yeah, transmutation seems to be against Zin's theme 13:36:54 like it's not a good brand in general, doesn't work on a lot of stuff... some of the stuff that it does work on is dangerous, but still won't come up a lot 13:38:37 gotta kill those ugly things dead 13:38:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:39:47 maybe orb of fire is the only really dangerous thing it works on 13:40:25 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1342-g03f18cc: Properly set the gargoyle species' holiness to nonliving. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03f18cc06004 13:41:07 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:50 -!- ketsa has quit [Client Quit] 13:42:08 -!- whog has quit [] 13:47:04 didn't dolorous get the memo? 13:47:42 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 13:47:48 -!- thann has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:09 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:46 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:50:28 -!- sym` has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:50:33 Simplify mon-stealth.cc by Reaver 13:50:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:01 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:13 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:40 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 13:59:47 -!- Node_967 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:01:48 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:58 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:08:01 !lg * dj x=cdist(cls) 14:08:02 1522 games for * (dj): cdist(cls)=27 14:08:04 i guess none? 14:08:20 oh sorry, wrong window 14:09:01 doh 14:09:03 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:30 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:45 Problem with Webtiles by xzanthius 14:11:42 that is SUCH a good subject line 14:14:45 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:15:45 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:19:08 <|amethyst> hm... I can't remember or find the open about scrambled tiles when switching versions 14:19:54 -!- tureba_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:20:41 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:22:41 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 14:23:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:56 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1343-gad4e203: Don't allow picking a draconian colour in init.txt 10(53 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad4e20305011 14:23:57 Cherry-picked 3 commits into stone_soup-0.12 14:23:57 03MarvinPA 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12.1-46-gcdab559: Don't allow selecting invalid species via initfile 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cdab55903452 14:24:14 is there anything else recent that should be cherry-picked to 0.12? and if not would now be a good time to tag 0.12.2? 14:24:43 how about ad4e203 14:24:48 that woudl probably be good to cheery pick 14:25:14 Cherry-picked 3 commits into stone_soup-0.12 14:25:30 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: I have one that might want to go in; let me find it 14:25:53 i did pick one of yours, dunno if that's the one you mean (crash on divine vigour) 14:25:58 <|amethyst> not that one 14:26:02 aha ok 14:26:06 <|amethyst> %git cc28685bc 14:26:06 07|amethyst * 0.13-a0-903-gcc28685: Give targetting prompts for enemies other than the first (#7079). 10(7 days ago, 3 files, 18+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cc28685bc7fb 14:26:12 <|amethyst> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7079 14:27:46 <|amethyst> I didn't cherry-pick it because I wasn't sure there weren't bugs with it 14:28:48 <|amethyst> s/bugs/unforeseen implications/ 14:29:42 <|amethyst> but no one has reported any since the end of the tournament so it's probably good to go in 14:30:09 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:31:05 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: too bad CLEAR: is a new feature; I don't feel comfortable cherry-picking it, but that's how #7099 was fixed 14:32:24 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: as a stopgap, we could remove the randomisation of the edge, but then it might be too identifiable when it doesn't place inside a wall 14:32:32 i like this crash today: 14:32:33 11:40:34 POSSIBLYLAINIW the Magician (L1 GEFE) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 399: player of an invalid species (D:1) 14:32:53 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: in minmay_lair_hidden_items 14:33:06 <|amethyst> evilmike: you could still play SE :) 14:33:25 <|amethyst> evilmike: probably SEJr in fact :) 14:33:33 jr was forbidden for all races unfortunately 14:33:38 <|amethyst> oh, right 14:34:17 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:34:33 oh hm, well i am really not a fan of vaults like that one regardless 14:34:50 so my suggestion would be to remove it rather than anything else :P 14:34:58 i was about to say that kind of name sounds like it begs for removal yes 14:35:48 i'm guessing they are for-real hidden? 14:35:52 (or remove the plants blocking the entrance) 14:35:59 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:36:01 does !vault still give stuff from like 3 years ago btw? 14:36:26 possibly this vault is 3 years old either way 14:36:29 but i'm not sure :P 14:36:30 !vault minmay_lair_hidden_items 14:36:36 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/7990295 14:36:36 !vault minmay_hidden_items 14:36:41 Couldn't find minmay_hidden_items in the Crawl source tree 14:36:53 <|amethyst> hm, that's odd 14:36:58 <|amethyst> oh 14:36:58 aha that's up-to-date 14:37:18 <|amethyst> I just updated Henzell's crawl repo yesterday 14:37:21 ok that vault is bad. but you could just move the plant a bit 14:37:31 so instead of being hidden items its just an oklob room 14:37:38 right 14:38:04 <|amethyst> !vault explore_dammit 14:38:06 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/7990305 14:38:13 <|amethyst> we discussed these a while back 14:38:17 that one is so dumb 14:38:21 right that one should just go anyway 14:38:22 i think everyone but kilobyte hates it :P 14:38:28 i think i just forgot to remove it 14:38:39 but i do think it would be nice if plants didnt generate in corners like that too 14:38:47 because that stuff does screw with autoexplore 14:38:51 kilobyte is the last word on vaults, so don't question him 14:39:18 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:39:25 ??vaults[$ 14:39:26 vaults[1/1]: Accessed from the main dungeon somewhere between levels 15 and 20. Five levels deep. A large group of guards await on the bottom floor (see {vaults_5}), where you can find several item vaults and a silver rune. There are also ordinary {vault}s. 14:39:28 <|amethyst> evilmike: it's not 100% clear how to change ruination to not do that 14:39:34 ??vault[$ 14:39:35 vault[4/4]: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43ba2b6c8036fb9c61e7f46a1d2ca20a27355696 14:39:54 it would be nice if the vaults that did that just didn't exist so the problem wasn't made worse than it is naturally 14:40:10 <|amethyst> evilmike: you could avoid ruining into a plant if there are more than N adjacent walls... but 2 walls is enough to have the problem 14:40:20 that vault is only part of the problem, items could still place in corners like that 14:41:03 there's a more complicated algorithm possible to check if it's effectively creating a bottleneck (i actually want to write a function like that to remove "doors to nowhere" anyway) 14:41:25 there's a function which fills in cut-off areas of the map, could something like that check for small areas cut off by plants? 14:41:31 hmm, there might be an easier approach 14:42:06 evilmike: actually that could work too, but it would fill those squares in with wall rather than remove the plant 14:42:20 in that case, you'd still have unrevealed corners of walls, but the autoexplore could stop saying there are unexplored areas 14:42:33 because we would know (ideally) that nothing is there 14:42:34 evilmike: but actually a more sensible algorithm is, each time you ruin a square, remove any plants from neighbouring squares; but optionally place a plant where you just ruined 14:42:59 <|amethyst> mumra: I don't think that would solve it 14:43:02 actually that wouldn't stop the explore problem no 14:43:37 <|amethyst> there's also "don't generate plants in ruination" 14:43:51 elliptic had a proposal 14:43:53 for fixing the plants thing 14:43:57 plants are nice flavour 14:43:59 he said he would take a look at it after tourney 14:44:15 <|amethyst> mumra: I was thinking to add them back in in a different way so Lair isn't too sterile 14:44:24 evilmike: re: only part of the problem, I know, but I don't see why the game needs vaults that make bugs worse :P 14:44:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:44:26 <|amethyst> mumra: not sure quite how or where though 14:44:47 <|amethyst> elliott: to remind us to fix the bug :) 14:45:00 surely a bug is its own reminder 14:45:40 there's only an explore problem if a) plants block off floor tiles (the last algorithm i mentioned solved this) b) if there's a plant in a corner and it has only one adjacent floor tile, and c) autoexplore sometimes fails when a plant has more adjacent floor tiles, even though it technically *could* see the unseen squares but it just doesn't work out how to 14:45:40 so lets have HangedMan add a hundred buggy vaults, "for reminders" 14:45:41 <|amethyst> solution: runed plants 14:46:15 i think lightli would do a better job 14:46:32 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:33 going through the logs i saw him paste yet another vault which wouldn't even load (i could tell just from the syntax) 14:46:35 don't the vaults have to actually place though 14:46:38 at least it wasnt on mantis this time 14:46:38 haha 14:47:00 i think a lightli vault that doesn't load is preferable to one that does 14:48:17 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:49:21 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1344-g7c22cc3: Fix some hidden item vaults 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c22cc395b7b 14:49:33 i can't cope with this new fast chei 14:49:37 it surprises me every time 14:49:40 "fast chei" 14:49:40 ...huh? 14:49:54 commit announcing :P 14:50:04 Oh. 14:50:09 Chei the bot, not Chei the deity :b 14:50:33 chei the deity bot 14:50:56 i want to see a fake god next april fools. either an antichei that perma-hastes you at max piety (glow included) or chokowaru 14:51:25 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: re 0.12.2, maybe also this one: 14:51:27 <|amethyst> %git a797ddd80afb1e0cee4e4c84e61a58efc3a3202d 14:51:28 07|amethyst * 0.13-a0-922-ga797ddd: Fix ctrl-h on terminals where that is the same as backspace (hhkb) 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a797ddd80afb 14:51:36 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:52:15 ??badform[97] 14:52:15 I don't have a page labeled badform[97] in my learndb. 14:52:18 ??badforum[97] 14:52:19 badforum[97/143]: Anit-Cheribdos Diety - Like the killing of slower creatures, promotes the use of quickblades, branded speed weapons, and boots of running. Dislikes the use of any slowing rods/spells on anything, amulets of stasis, use of ponderous equipment, and resting (lose 1 piety every 25 turns while resting). 14:52:48 tavern predicting the future as always 14:53:04 <|amethyst> Scylla and Cheribdos? 14:53:26 do it tome style and have a buff that makes you move 200x more quickly than normal 14:53:35 (not exaggerating) 14:53:37 does tome really... 14:53:39 sorta 14:54:06 it has a class whose gimmick is moving fast, and you can pile up other speed buffs on top of that. but they cancel out if you do a non-move action like attacking or opening doors 14:54:32 it's basically blink except you walk there 14:55:21 there was my kirke/pikel stuff but i don't really know if it fixed the extremely rare crash 14:55:43 however it did fix weird penance issues when e.g. killing kirke with an AoE spell 14:55:48 -!- Napkin_ is now known as Napkin 14:55:48 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:16 MarvinPA: mikee blink 14:57:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:02:03 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1345-g8012360: Indentation fix. 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=80123603afa7 15:03:45 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:50 <|amethyst> away stuff 15:04:58 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:07:13 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:07:30 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:56 ok i tweaked my Artificer a bit, i'm considering pushing it to trunk, does anyone have any comments on this 15:10:12 it's in the evoker-playstyle branch 15:11:38 this includes the Box of Beasts improvments of course 15:11:40 didn't we talk about how starting with a deck is bad 15:12:01 not precisely 15:12:13 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1344-gef9da21: Merge master 10(4 hours ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ef9da21b0f11 15:12:13 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1345-g8f2792d: Further tweaks to Box of Beasts 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 44+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8f2792d7b39d 15:12:13 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1346-gb14f9d2: Modify Artificer starting kit 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b14f9d228e2b 15:12:13 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1347-ge97760a: Tweak the Rod of Blasts 10(2 hours ago, 5 files, 15+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e97760a6c2d5 15:12:13 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1348-g26fb894: Repurpose an unused rod image 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=26fb8941f2a0 15:12:13 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1349-g447bb8a: Give Artificer a deck of defence 10(62 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=447bb8aafcd5 15:12:13 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1350-g9a1a31b: Improve behaviour of rod of blasts 10(4 minutes ago, 8 files, 76+ 24-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9a1a31b2dfb2 15:13:21 but it was kind of lacking something without that, and it's fun with it 15:13:21 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:24 i don't think a deck is appropriate either, yeah 15:13:32 Starting kit for Ar? 15:13:45 dpeg: yes 15:14:18 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:25 the deck can go anyway 15:14:38 So it'll be wand + rod? 15:14:44 + box of beasts 15:14:48 ah, cool 15:14:54 i can't really decide on the wand 15:15:00 random effects has overlap with the new rod 15:15:09 confusion is too strong? 15:15:36 I've also explained in the past why I don't like starting with a rod, but I think fewer people agree with me there 15:16:23 elliptic: can you outline why, i haven't seen that 15:17:05 (very brief summary: running away from stuff waiting for rods to recharge is awful) 15:17:18 Djinni spell hunger by UnknownKirbyMan 15:17:22 -!- Solvent has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:17:39 dpeg: it's not exactly too strong, it just doesn't really feel right 15:17:42 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:50 (also, rods being unlimited makes the background more like all the spellcaster backgrounds we already have... having limited charges is more unique and interesting) 15:18:05 elliptic: that seems to be a general problem with rods, but it's also not much different than waiting for MP to recharge 15:18:06 i quite like how ar just starts with a bunch of good stuff with limited charges, yeah 15:18:09 -!- Nareusm has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:18:23 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:29 does the box of beasts in this branch still have limited charges? 15:18:30 tenofswords: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:18:31 mumra: it's different because after the first level or two you have to wait a lot more for rods 15:18:45 than for MP 15:18:51 Ar, at the moment, tends to strike me as "here are a few good trinkets to tide you over as you transition into whatever you really want this character to do". 15:18:51 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 15:18:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:19:17 you could say that of many or even every background, really 15:19:18 Grunt: I think that's exactly the intention. 15:19:51 elliptic: would it be a crazy idea to tie rod recharge to XP like the new evokables 15:19:58 Grunt: yes, that is more interesting than "go kill everything with this rod. have fun." 15:20:21 mumra: it's not crazy, but at that point we might as well just remove rods altogether and add more misc evokables 15:20:30 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:34 elliott: well it's more noticeable on ar than most because they just start with consumables 15:20:37 tome of minor destruction 15:20:40 (which is nice because it makes them different) 15:20:48 elliptic: perhaps it'll go that way. The new mechanic has a lot going for it, imo. 15:20:52 elliptic: this rod was kind of designed so you can't kill everything with it; you only get one shot out of it with the default capacity, so running away to recharge tends to mean that the thing you shot has healed anyway 15:21:01 MarvinPA: they also start with a weapon :P 15:21:18 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:28 mumra: it takes that long to recharge? 15:21:59 mumra: you see, what bothers me is that if you use your one shot and it misses, then you should spend 80 turns kiting the monster in a circle waiting for the rod to recharge 15:22:03 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22:06 since the monster is already at full health 15:22:25 yeah, i do see the problem 15:23:16 SO back to wand + wand + box? 15:23:31 this is certainly also a problem with MP early on too, but I think it would be more of a problem with rods... we could still try it out though 15:23:54 but as I said, I'd also prefer the background to be more distinct from a regular conjurer-type background 15:24:12 ...which, btw, is why I like /confusion so much on Ar 15:25:39 If balance wasn't a concern, I'd like a starting set of enslavement, polymorph, confusion -- all the indirect means of monster manipulation 15:26:02 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:26:14 elliptic: this is why an item at least *like* the deck was kind of interesting to me because it gave a defensive tool (with a lot of variety) 15:26:19 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1346-gc0f7956: Adjust enemy tengu HP. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c0f795621b72 15:26:23 so they have a mix of items for different purposes 15:26:26 mumra: I haven't looked much at your rod of blasting, but perhaps changing it to the elemental evoker style would be a possibility? 15:26:47 something blasty, something summony, something defensive, and /confusion which is a bit hexy 15:26:48 right, the only problem with decks are that they are just too crazy/complicated 15:26:52 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:54 hmm 15:26:56 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:27:07 i suppose that's kind of like wz with gadgets instead of spells 15:27:29 mumra: it's still alright: all the gadgets are limited, unlike Wz spells 15:27:36 (apart from the rod, I guess) 15:27:44 dpeg: exactly 15:28:23 elliptic: yeah, a new item with xp recharge could work. it is kind of like a tome of minor destruction as tenofswords points out 15:28:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:28:45 btw, now would probably be a good time to un-bookify the tome 15:28:59 make it anything but a book 15:29:19 make it a book with teeth 15:29:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:29:30 Disc of Destruction? 15:29:39 lamp of destruction 15:29:47 it's quite nice that all the items are different types of object 15:29:52 bikesheds of the world, here we go :) 15:29:54 prism of destruction 15:29:56 so if someone refers to disc you know it's storms 15:30:17 mumra: about the deck, an example of the craziness is that a player could die on turn 1 by drawing from the deck, getting an oddities card (1% chance), and getting a lethal effect from Wrath card 15:30:26 (todo: quad damage -> periapt of power so that it eventually lands back in the main game >_>) 15:31:08 with enough hackery about the contents of the deck you could deal with those problems, but it would still be quite complicated, and to use it effectively players would need to know what all the possible cards were, etc 15:31:17 elliptic: would have to be turn 2 surely! :P 15:31:28 MarvinPA: well you die during turn 2 15:31:36 so it counts as turn 1 iirc 15:31:38 How about an AK being pulled into another section of the abyss on turn 0 and drowning in lava. 15:31:47 !messages 15:31:48 (1/12) Cryp71c said (6w 6d 15h 40m 50s ago): good god, the "damage taken is split between adjacent enemes" sounds like a balance nightmare :P I like the concept, undoubtedl. 15:31:51 %git HEAD^{/drown} 15:31:51 07DracoOmega * 0.13-a0-953-g74d61dd: Give water elementals a drowning attack, adjust stats 10(7 weeks ago, 19 files, 203+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=74d61dde2545 15:31:51 Except that can't happen so :x 15:31:55 %git HEAD^{/drown}^^{/drown} 15:31:55 07Grunt * 0.13-a0-877-gb72fcf6: Don't drown/incinerate player in Abyss when placing vaults. 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 19+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b72fcf6e1756 15:32:00 we need to get card descriptions on the description screen anyway (when you've id'd a card) 15:32:36 !messages 15:32:37 (1/11) elliptic said (6w 6d 4h 9m 38s ago): I just glanced through the Ds thread, and I have to say I'm not really a fan of most of the stuff in it. There are two reasons for this. 15:32:47 !messages 15:32:48 (1/10) elliptic said (6w 6d 4h 4m 45s ago): The first reason is that most of the mutations suggested seem way too complicated. I feel Ds mutations should be simple so that we don't overwhelm players, and most of the suggestions seem to be cramming several different effects into one mutation. 15:32:57 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:01 -!- flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:33:12 * dpeg cannot even recall if he made DS proposals in that thread... 15:33:17 a few messages 15:33:23 !messages 15:33:24 (1/9) elliptic said (6w 6d 4h 4m 59s ago): I also don't much like designing double-edged effects by "take one or two good effects and one bad effect and combine"; I'd rather see a single effect that is both good and bad at once (like body-slot mutations or nightstalker) 15:33:32 dpeg: iirc you asked me for comments on the thread :P 15:33:43 elliptic: I am always grateful when you comment! 15:33:59 -!- N78291 has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:34:03 elliptic: it doesn't help that mutations don't have full descriptions ... 15:34:03 -!- Glucocorticoid is now known as N78291 15:34:06 I had an extremely busy period, so I didn't do a lot... should be better now. 15:34:27 !messages 15:34:28 (1/8) elliptic said (6w 6d 4h 3m 40s ago): The second reason is that our current stock of double-edged effects are probably already the most disliked part of Ds... I'm not sure we should be so hasty to expand this. Players really don't like it when they feel like gaining a level and mutating is hurting them, and I don't blame them. 15:34:38 !messages 15:34:39 (1/7) elliptic said (6w 6d 4h 3m 5s ago): this isn't to say that I think double-edged mutations are bad, just that we should be careful about introducing more of them... and many of the suggestions in the thread are pretty extreme 15:34:46 !messages 15:34:47 (1/6) elliptic said (6w 6d 3h 53m 51s ago): there are certainly some ideas in the thread that have potential... we can always use new interesting facets! But I'd add them in one at a time rather than trying some big "reform". The current demonspawn mutations and system are the result of a lot of time and effort, let's not scrap that... 15:35:13 ha ha ha actually being cautious about changes 15:35:14 -!- joosa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:14 -!- jooosa is now known as joosa 15:35:15 I certainly agree about step-by-step. Whenever we can afford a slow approach (like with cutting levels), we should. 15:35:21 wasn't that thrown out the window 15:35:27 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35:40 -!- brainwrinkle has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35:42 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35:42 -!- Sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:36:15 And since DS is a functional species, it's okay to add/modify mutations one by one. 15:36:22 !messages 15:36:23 (1/5) mumra said (4w 6d 8h 21m 26s ago): actually apparently it does have more ruination/plants as you go deeper 15:36:42 elliptic: many thanks! 15:38:00 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 15:38:18 tenofswords: can't really go slowly when it comes to adding whole new species 15:38:46 like "today we add the cloak slot, tomorrow the hat slot" ... 15:38:52 can go slowly on a new branch 15:38:54 Congratulations to post-tournament action: it's extremely impressive... nice to see how you managed to slip in a species cut among all the great additions :) 15:39:14 !send Forest dpeg 15:39:15 Sending dpeg to Forest. 15:39:15 tenofswords: again, you can't exactly have an empty branch 15:39:22 it has to come with some monsters 15:39:28 mumra: branch in the code sense, not the dungeon sense. 15:39:33 can test monsters seperately of branches 15:39:37 ohhhh 15:40:05 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:40:36 well these things were all developed slowly in separate branches. then suddenly moved into trunk because nobody was testing them where they were. 15:40:56 dj at least was tested actually 15:41:05 also speaking of merges, there's that melee move we don't have a good name for yet 15:41:45 not very tested, if nobody noticed the minor issue with ely / healers 15:42:11 if nobody noticed webtiles not having any proper interface for new stuff 15:42:20 yes somehow it turns out testing by one person is pretty different to testing by a few hundred people 15:42:26 mumra: the one about consecutive attacks? 15:42:27 what a surprise 15:42:47 relax m8 15:42:51 well he did go ely for a bit 15:42:56 it's "trunk" webtiles for a reason 15:43:03 i think it's pretty a priori obvious that djhe is problematic for balance without even playing it :P 15:43:19 so, um, setting up a webtiles instance to test on is moderately more difficult than building a console version 15:43:24 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:26 A single god shouldn't be a strong concern for a species. 15:43:41 agreed. now, double gods, there's a concern 15:43:52 <3 15:44:22 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:30 While it is absurd as hell, I can't really see the issue myself with DjHe. 15:44:47 Because if it's so absurd then winning one is pretty much worthless in terms of winning. :v 15:45:18 "oh boy you won a completely broken combo gratz bro u am teh bestest" 15:45:24 that is not really how balancing things works 15:45:27 i don't think that's how game balance works 15:45:33 have you read the design philosophy? 15:45:45 of course not 15:46:34 Lava orc travel bug by UnknownKirbyMan 15:49:55 Btw, who brought up Sludge Elf extermination? 15:50:02 * dpeg guesses it was kilobyte. 15:51:26 %git HEAD^{/needed} 15:51:26 07dolorous * 0.13-a0-1303-g2234123: Add needed parentheses and formatting fixes. 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2234123e3dc2 15:51:27 i think it was kind of lightli 15:51:28 er 15:51:30 %git HEAD^{/nneeded} 15:51:30 07dolorous * 0.13-a0-1302-g06d9311: Remove unneeded parentheses. 10(23 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=06d93119f86e 15:51:33 ... 15:51:37 %git HEAD^{/Unneeded} 15:51:39 Could not find commit HEAD^{/Unneeded} (git returned 128) 15:51:42 .... 15:51:51 %git HEAD^{/Elves} 15:51:51 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-1308-g2e2439c: Remove Superfluous Elves. 10(21 hours ago, 2 files, 19+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2e2439c1c302 15:52:05 lightli kind of harangued everyone into agreeing that SE should get removed and then suddenly it had happened when i woke up this morning :) 15:52:41 it bewilders me that sludge elf was removed over high elf 15:52:43 i don't think lightli had much to do with it other than just being annoying and lightli 15:52:44 The amazing part about this is that it implies that Lightli is somebody who should be given primary consideration when it comes to development decisions 15:53:13 dpeg: yeah the "whaling on" move that some people really dislike the wording of :) 15:53:29 hey i had suggested removing se long before 15:53:30 Which is just amazingly unbelievable compared to, you know, someone who has commit rights deciding they want to do it 15:53:47 yes mostly people were just having actual normal discussion about removals interrupted by repetitive annoying comments 15:53:55 hehe 15:54:05 mumra: I support using the weapon move, so let me try to use a German-English dictionary as a wannabe synonym reference :) 15:54:10 did someone whisper my name 15:54:20 Bloax: are you Lightli 15:54:37 Fortunately no, I'm still just a rat in a cage. 15:54:46 it says here his name is "realname" 15:55:10 a good name, I like it 15:55:28 anyway, good move to cut a species that was solely defined on aptitudes and no extremely well differentiated at that. 15:56:15 As a somewhat twisted quote of someone, the only real thing about them was their statueform earthitude pew pew powers. 15:56:35 Because of their high transmutations and earth magic. 15:56:53 * dpeg wonders if the devteam is anti-Earth: didn't all of HD, MD, Gn, SE have above average Earth aptitudes? 15:57:35 They had more to them than statueforming 15:57:37 death to earth 15:57:38 okay why is this neutral orc wizard attacking me 15:57:47 SamB: are you standing in his way 15:57:47 They attack if you're in their way. 15:57:55 still confused as to why then sludge elf before high elf 15:57:56 I am standing between him and some trees 15:58:03 there's still a question of whether the move should be on M&F or long blades 15:58:03 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:04 The "best" SE might've been SENe 15:58:14 if he wants to be where I am, he should let me swap positions with him 15:58:30 mumra: the mechanic where you do more damage on consecutive hits? 15:58:35 nicolae-: yep 15:58:57 The most popular might've been SETm. 15:59:01 which is better than DENe on the grounds that DE is terrible at a lot of stuff necromancers probably want to do 15:59:04 Though I'm horrible at checking. 15:59:06 either one would work, i think 15:59:26 SETm was popular, but let's see... 15:59:51 oh yeah, the most popular by -far- 16:00:07 the problem with that being that it was actually not good and not anywhere near the best Tm despite the apts 16:00:15 mumra: not overly crucial, imo 16:00:29 [quote]MfTm is like SETm but actually good[/quote] 16:00:35 give it to both but in varying ways 16:00:37 Personally, I'd say it fits better with clubs, but that's not a strong statement. 16:00:40 good quote 16:00:50 for the record: 16:00:56 !lg * race=SE s=class 16:00:57 73271 games for * (race=SE): 30687x Transmuter, 8353x Earth Elementalist, 4266x Wanderer, 4113x Necromancer, 3922x Monk, 2620x Assassin, 2308x Stalker, 1728x Wizard, 1675x Venom Mage, 1670x Summoner, 1569x Fire Elementalist, 1322x Ice Elementalist, 891x Death Knight, 736x Air Elementalist, 679x Arcane Marksman, 645x Conjurer, 612x Hunter, 602x Chaos Knight, 594x Healer, 577x Priest, 527x Artificer... 16:01:05 hm 16:01:14 And I have some faint hope for the "glancing attack" weapon move, which would probably better befit swords. 16:01:15 !lg * won race=SE s=class 16:01:15 I like SEWn being the third most popular, it's funny 16:01:15 366 games for * (won race=SE): 80x Earth Elementalist, 58x Transmuter, 32x Necromancer, 24x Assassin, 13x Venom Mage, 13x Fire Elementalist, 12x Air Elementalist, 11x Ice Elementalist, 10x Monk, 9x Healer, 9x Arcane Marksman, 8x Wizard, 7x Stalker, 7x Summoner, 7x Artificer, 6x Berserker, 6x Gladiator, 6x Priest, 5x Wanderer, 5x Death Knight, 5x Chaos Knight, 5x Hunter, 4x Skald, 4x Fighter, 4x Co... 16:01:33 I should probably exclude boring or something but 16:01:33 yeah 16:01:43 SETm not good because the low HP hurts 16:01:43 !lg * se !boring s=class 16:01:44 62277 games for * (se !boring): 27357x Transmuter, 7429x Earth Elementalist, 3744x Necromancer, 3644x Monk, 2391x Assassin, 1927x Stalker, 1531x Venom Mage, 1519x Wizard, 1506x Summoner, 1400x Fire Elementalist, 1205x Ice Elementalist, 874x Wanderer, 806x Death Knight, 655x Air Elementalist, 635x Arcane Marksman, 556x Chaos Knight, 522x Priest, 518x Hunter, 508x Healer, 450x Gladiator, 439x Conjur... 16:01:50 how is boring defined 16:01:54 ??boring 16:01:55 boring[1/1]: quit|leave 16:01:59 yeah, that's what I expected 16:02:00 ah 16:02:05 i keep forgetting about the boys 16:02:06 somebody weird to be startscumming SEWn :P 16:02:07 er, bots 16:02:11 -!- bakaflockaflame has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:02:14 !lg * se killer=~boring s=class 16:02:14 8 games for * (se killer=~boring): 4x Transmuter, Earth Elementalist, Death Knight, Summoner, Abyssal Knight 16:02:24 8 SEs bored to death 16:02:46 boring beetles :( 16:02:55 best beetles :) 16:02:59 boring beetles cause boring deaths ;) 16:03:19 somebody managing to die to a boring beetle surely isn't boring 16:03:44 Hm. 16:03:49 Boring beetles can hit pretty hard for people who don't know how to evade them properly. 16:03:53 boring beetle (07B) | Spd: 6 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-58 | AC/EV: 13/4 | Dam: 35 | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 110 | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 16:03:53 %??boring beetle 16:04:05 yes 16:04:16 boring beetles are weird level effects instead of monsters 16:04:16 I think I once died to one with a SpAK. 16:04:22 Might've just been a goliath beetle though. 16:04:29 I guess watching people who don't know how to walk away from things isn't very interesting 16:04:52 Boring beetles are weird "You hear a grinding noise" xINFINITE level effects. 16:05:02 It really grinds on people's nervers after a while. 16:05:05 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:05:09 *nerves 16:05:13 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:35 yes, and then occasionally they dig out some ridiculous sealed vault full of monsters and then it's time for "fun" 16:05:42 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:05:43 !vault evilmike_bad_box 16:05:56 dtems also good for doing this, especially when they spawn inside the vault 16:05:58 -!- Henzell has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:06:29 like the one that's a row of items, a row of strong dudes, and a rock wall separating them with glass 16:06:29 did you just kill henzell 16:06:53 dtems love to let themselves out of that one... 16:07:59 Self-opening door vaults were the best surprises. 16:08:17 It's never as good as it used be. 16:08:21 What kind of "best" is debatable though. 16:08:30 Self-openning door vaults? What were those? 16:08:34 what is a dtem 16:08:44 it's an item but with s/i/d/ 16:08:50 aha 16:08:56 deep troll earth mage 16:09:00 AH okay 16:09:05 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:14 !vault evilmike_bad_box 16:09:16 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/7990629 16:09:25 todo: derune doorvault 16:09:31 !vault boring_beetle_workplace 16:09:33 Couldn't find boring_beetle_workplace in the Crawl source tree 16:09:46 doorvault should just have one big door and have the issue be with 16:09:46 we removed it because it was too boring, obviously 16:09:51 !vault workplace 16:09:52 Couldn't find workplace in the Crawl source tree 16:10:29 are you telling me there was a vault filled with boring beetles 16:10:30 oh it's just 16:10:35 !vault evilmike_boring_beetle 16:10:37 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/7990633 16:10:50 that would spam the infamous words much more frequently than just the usual boring beetle 16:11:20 -!- reaver has quit [] 16:11:26 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:11:28 hahaha 16:12:01 it is pretty audacious vault design in both of them 16:12:06 Metavaults are cool, I like the ones by Lemuel that send monsters throughout the level. 16:12:13 i should muck up a gargoyle-player sprite 16:12:21 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:12:40 Though it seems a bit pointless if they can wear armor and everything. 16:12:43 (I should just get somebody to make the quick commit fix of vapours to wisps with aerie_drop) 16:13:06 i never metavault i didn't like *dragged offstage, giant hook* 16:13:14 Anyways. 16:13:17 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 16:13:24 nicolae-: go work on some more vaults, especially things that employ the latest trunk goodness <_< 16:14:02 atm i'm making some more vestibule vaults by request but i'm also thinking about vaults that use the new crypt monsters 16:14:14 do lost souls still do their thing through glass or iron grates. i'm asking, for a friend 16:14:40 nicolae_crypt_nine_unlives 16:14:56 is the friend evilmike? I've heard he likes grates 16:15:25 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:15:46 i think they're pretty... awesome. wait i think i messed that up- 16:15:54 anyway bbl 16:15:56 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 16:16:09 missed my opportunity to experiment with my request powers 16:17:47 -!- tureba_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:19:02 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:20:43 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:14 -!- Krakhan has quit [] 16:23:52 vertexvortex (L4 LOHe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 1019: screen write out of bounds: (1,14) into (42,13) (Zot (ZotDef)) 16:23:58 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:24:00 vertexvortex (L4 LOHe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 1019: screen write out of bounds: (1,14) into (42,13) (Zot (ZotDef)) 16:24:03 vertexvortex (L4 LOHe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 1019: screen write out of bounds: (1,14) into (42,13) (Zot (ZotDef)) 16:24:12 vertexvortex (L4 LOHe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 1019: screen write out of bounds: (1,14) into (42,13) (Zot (ZotDef)) 16:24:18 o_O? 16:24:32 !lm vertexvortex zotdef crash -log 16:24:32 4. vertexvortex, XL4 LOHe, T:443 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/vertexvortex/crash-vertexvortex-20130531-212412.txt 16:24:58 vertexvortex (L4 LOHe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 1019: screen write out of bounds: (1,14) into (42,13) (Zot (ZotDef)) 16:25:14 Wonderful stack trace there. 16:25:24 -!- scummos_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:59 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:26:04 -!- Zermako has quit [] 16:26:39 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:57 does anyone _not_ like the general idea of gradually removing all rods and replacing them with more misc. items? 16:28:29 i quite like rods as an item class personally 16:28:32 though the new misc items blur the distinction 16:28:53 todo: remove all standard rods and replace them with randrods <_< 16:30:29 i dont like rods because swapping weapons is annoying 16:30:51 also, wielding a weapon you cant really use for attacking stuff is annoying 16:31:23 Hmm. 16:31:27 they seem to be in a fairly mixed-up place 16:31:33 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:37 mumra: I am fine with this. Ironically, rods were introduced in DCSS 0.1 (one of the not so many genuinely new items back then)... casualties of progress, I guess. 16:31:40 I wonder if any of the rods that don't have rod-unique spells would be missed. 16:31:57 are we ditching rods entirely? 16:32:02 the single spell rods are pretty okay imo 16:32:04 other than the super annoying part 16:32:10 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:33 * Grunt notes that the single spell rods are exactly the rods that have rod-unique spells, as far as player castability is concerned. 16:32:45 elliptic makes a good point that it's all waiting for MP to recharge just like magic users do anyway 16:32:56 just removing the requirement to wield them would be nice 16:33:10 then they wouldnt be annoying and i could have fun with them 16:33:13 alefury: i tend to think the same for decks as well :) 16:33:30 i only use decks with nemelex, so i dont mind 16:33:31 mumra: this mechanic can certainly be improved, and other items do it better. 16:34:23 FR: rod of melee 16:34:35 ??12 club 16:34:35 12 club[1/2]: redrum the Skirmisher (L3 DrCK), worshipper of Makhleb, slain by Ijyb (a +6,+12 club) on D:2 on 2010-08-19, with 120 points after 1033 turns and 0:04:06. 16:34:39 There's your rod of melee :b 16:34:50 ?? 12 club[2] 16:34:51 12 club[2/2]: Xenene the Insei (L3 OpMo), slain by Ijyb (a +12,+6 club) on D:2, with 110 points after 1254 turns and 0:06:41. 16:35:08 * Grunt is reminded of that +12 quarterstaff. 16:35:14 !lg * kaux=~12.*staff 16:35:14 No games for * (kaux=~12.*staff). 16:35:15 welcome to the 12 club! 16:35:16 also infuse is kind of like a melee rod 16:35:21 except its not a rod but a spell 16:35:26 !lg * kaux~~12.*staff 16:35:27 1. Tolias the Eclecticist (L17 SEAE), worshipper of Sif Muna, annihilated by a naga (the +9,+12 quarterstaff "Giantslayer" {flame}) on Snake:5 (grunt_snake_rune_spirals) on 2013-04-03 03:45:45, with 157278 points after 29827 turns and 5:11:54. 16:35:40 I've had good use out of the rod of poison on characters without the spell-investment for p.cloud, but that's just because it's p.cloud. 16:35:54 nobody is saying rods are not useful 16:36:04 FR: oka in a can 16:36:13 there was a question of would non-unique rods be missed 16:36:15 i like rods because when i find them on a berserker it's pretty handy 16:36:18 alefury: wielding it is overall less keypresses if you're firing it a lot 16:36:44 nicolae-: the replacement misc items would be just as handy of course 16:36:52 yeah, but rods dont have so many charges 16:36:54 also true 16:37:10 if it had infinite charges or was good in melee, wielding it would be okay i guess 16:37:21 and these items could perhaps be a bit more common if their usage is more restricted 16:37:30 i.e. limited charges, XP recharge, that kind of thing 16:37:41 (idea: rare wands that cast spells that normal wands don't, to go with randrods >_>) 16:37:52 03dolorous 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1351-g52b5627: Fix inaccurate comment. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=52b5627ee0e2 16:37:52 03dolorous 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1352-g92f54b2: Fix spacing. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=92f54b250372 16:38:19 i like the idea of more things having randart variants 16:38:20 i think some of the rods like lightning rod are interesting 16:38:53 and wielding them to do that kind of multi use thing would be weird if they weren't rods 16:38:57 if the rods turn into unique items, maybe some of them could still be rod-like but slightly better melee weapons into the bargain 16:39:20 well at that point, why not just keep them as rods? 16:39:21 ...like lightning rods doing electrocution damage? 16:39:22 elliott: perhaps the multi-use thing is something that should go 16:39:30 except it is what makes them interesting 16:39:35 lightning rod is entirely based around multiple uses 16:39:42 oh right sorry 16:39:45 i misunderstood 16:39:51 i thought you meant rods with multiple spells 16:40:05 no, no, I vastly prefer single-spell rods (I think they should all be like that) 16:40:15 but exactly: the lightning rod is already pretty unique, and it has a cool name, it should stay as a rod 16:40:31 I'm going to start tinkering with a branch here in a bit. 16:40:40 mumra: yeah, it obviously has to keep that name 16:40:46 First up: remove multi-spell rods, because nobody seems to be too attached to them. 16:40:46 Grunt: for what we've just been talking about? 16:40:54 regardless of any ITEM_RODS status 16:41:09 Grunt: I'm thinking whatever the Tome of Destruction turns into can replace the conjurations rods basically 16:41:22 After that, possibly move back to randrods and/or randwands. 16:41:22 it could fire better spells at higher evo (this is from wiki suggestions) 16:41:26 I like elliptic or was it MarvinPA's suggested cloud nerf: a single-spell rod of clouds 16:41:31 that fires random clouds from a list 16:41:31 and be XP-charged 16:41:40 as previously mentioned 16:41:49 elliott: i am thinking about that as well 16:41:50 elliott, perhaps I'll add that in after I remove the other ones. 16:41:55 except i was thinking "Chalice of Clouds" 16:42:08 Chalice suggests something you drink out of :b 16:42:14 well, I really don't see the point of making items that are identical to rods except they're not called rods 16:42:15 or pour out of :P 16:42:27 dracoomega's new misc items act differently to rods 16:42:32 exactly 16:42:33 they're "bigger" effects 16:42:48 I think rods have their place, though they should probably recharge based on XP 16:42:57 well the clouds item will have quite a big effect, and the cloud delivery can work differently to normal targetted spells: 16:43:02 they can pour outwards from your scare 16:43:04 square 16:43:28 ...sure, because the player suddenly wants to be surrounded with, say, mutagenic fog. 16:43:36 i mean pour out in the direction you aim 16:43:40 surrounded by item destruction 16:43:47 and mutagenic fog won't be one of the clouds :P 16:44:22 but like fill a 45 degree cone with cloud just spreading out from next to the player 16:44:29 is this cloud ever harmful 16:44:32 yes 16:44:38 to the player i mean 16:44:47 not unless they walk into it 16:45:06 i'm *not* saying surround the player (this would be easier to code than describe probably) 16:45:28 hmm, Cone of Clouds is better 16:45:36 a cone you blow on and clouds come out 16:45:55 Cornet of Clouds 16:45:59 Rod of Xom, with a few spells chosen at a random from a list of bizarre spells that have strange mostly useless effects except perhaps having utility in some unusual edge cases 16:46:00 haha 16:50:28 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:50:38 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1347-g31dfe44: Add some recently monster-castable spells to the ghost/panlord list. 10(41 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=31dfe44d6142 16:54:00 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:57 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:02 In private discussion, mumra and I found that "concuss" might work well for the "I am senselessly beating you into oblivion" attack move. Opinions? 16:56:10 (Red bikeshed alert, of course.) 16:56:30 -!- |amethys1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:31 i prefer a green bikeshed 16:56:36 -!- browncustard has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:37 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:46 but there is no green alert, only a green lantern! 16:57:05 -!- C7ty1 has quit [Quit: Always try to be modest, and be proud about it!] 16:57:07 i still like pummel, concuss might suggest some sort of dazed and confused concussion effect 16:57:51 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:09 well that IS the implication really 16:58:45 Fun fact: "Pummel" is a German noun, meaning (a) "roly-poly" and (b) "fatty". 16:58:49 the trouble is "pummel" can just be taken for an ordinary attack verb 16:58:53 true 16:58:54 dpeg: lol 16:59:28 it need to imply something going on that only clubs do 16:59:35 So if a German calls you "Du Pummel", you should slap him -- unless you'e too fat to do so. 16:59:36 i guess whatever verb gets chosen people will be made to associate it with the effect anyway 17:00:56 hey, now that branches only have one single in and out staircase, what glyph is used for that staircase, is it { 17:01:02 also i might have to redo some of my vaults :I 17:01:07 -!- darktwinge has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:11 it's still > 17:01:16 and < 17:01:27 no i mean in vault design 17:01:28 why would it be anything else? 17:01:36 oh 17:01:36 -!- absolute1o_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:42 staircases in vaults are {[( and }]) 17:01:44 Zannick: vaults used to use {[( and )]} 17:01:50 no, i know 17:01:58 he just didn't say vaults before :P 17:02:02 Grunt: are the randrods going to have random existing spells, or is this maybe a chance to work in randspells too? ;) 17:02:13 I the verb concuss goes well with M&F, IMHO. 17:02:34 mumra: either it's going to be a blacklist (which my old implementation has) or a whitelist (which could allow for spells the player can't otherwise cast). 17:02:37 also are escape hatches that go up from the first floor of a branch vetoed also, or just the three guarantee ones 17:02:48 well, vetoed is the wrong word in this case 17:02:57 Escape hatches get removed, yes. 17:03:21 but basically if i go to some of my vaults that specify three upstairs, can i just say "on the first floor replace with escape hatches" or would i have to redo the layout entirely 17:03:25 ah 17:03:29 -!- ystael has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- Chozo has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- absolutego_ has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- blackcustard has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- Krag has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- syllogism- has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- rast has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- Twinge has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- |amethyst has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- us17 has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- caracal has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- Wensley has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- dazzle has quit [*.net *.split] 17:03:30 -!- ahpla has quit [*.net *.split] 17:04:05 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:04:11 -!- |amethys1 is now known as |amethyst 17:04:17 -!- us17_ is now known as us17 17:04:18 -!- us17 has quit [Changing host] 17:06:11 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:06:40 hm, with the new CLEAR directive, i can probably condense a number of the "empty non-square shape" vaults i made for Vaults 17:07:31 I knew there was more for me to be doing with that besides lair vaults 17:07:35 <|amethyst> how far out does lorc heat aura go? 17:07:41 i think it's just one square 17:08:04 <|amethyst> hmm 17:08:57 <|amethyst> I guess making friendlies try to stay 3 squares away wouldn't work so well 17:09:07 <|amethyst> it'd be like friendly orb spiders 17:09:25 <|amethyst> trying to think of a way to save LO Beogh 17:09:49 fedhas protects plants from you 17:09:54 no problem with beogh protecting orcs from you 17:10:20 simpler option is rename LO :P 17:10:33 -!- xnavy has quit [Killed (card.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 17:10:33 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 17:10:43 yeah the lava orc name is traditional by this point but renaming them makes more sense i think 17:10:57 protecting your orcs seems perfectly fine to me 17:11:24 there's no reason to rename them except beogh and i don't see why the beogh situation is actually problematic given that gods are well known to do this kind of thing anyway 17:11:35 will beogh also protect summons from sorcerers 17:11:37 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: that wouldn't be too much of a buff? 17:11:56 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: to HOPr I mean, being able to shoot through them 17:12:14 i meant just from the aura 17:12:31 |amethyst: it doesn't have to be the same KIND of protection 17:12:54 <|amethyst> hm 17:12:56 well i think there are other reasons to rename them; if we rename LO and also HE then each species will be different 17:13:15 <|amethyst> rename HE to Humans 17:13:18 fedhas doesn't protect you from ctrl-bashing your dudes either afaik 17:13:18 <|amethyst> remove Humans 17:13:24 Lava Dwarves 17:13:30 HE would be sidhe or whatever 17:13:39 but also I don't really see why it's necessarily a negative to have multiple related races 17:13:46 especially since LO are very similar to HO in multiple ways right now 17:14:04 <|amethyst> elliott: sidhe makes me think something more like a spriggan 17:14:37 maybe not sidhe... something was discussed as a rename for them anyway 17:14:38 <|amethyst> I agree with elliott re related races 17:14:49 <|amethyst> that it's not a negative 17:15:14 <|amethyst> it gives information to the player, "these things are similar in some ways" 17:15:16 it's not so much a negative, but i think things are more interesting theme-wise with things that are clearly different 17:15:25 true 17:15:36 bbbut the cave orcs 17:15:38 <|amethyst> FR: kobolds and hairy kobolds 17:15:39 well i think nobody can seriously claim that LO and HO are too similar in either theme or gameplay :P 17:15:55 fr Deep Troll, Iron Troll races 17:16:11 elliott: no, so there's no need to imply they're both similar by calling them both orcs ... 17:16:22 -!- Justinthymee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:16:50 I think the real question if the LO^Beogh experience is (will be/would be) sufficiently different from the HO^Beogh one. 17:16:55 <|amethyst> elliott: but they both have highest apt in axes, better armour than dodging, decent conj and bad spc, etc 17:17:29 |amethyst: yes 17:17:37 dpeg: i was wondering what you think about the beogh thing; 17:17:37 i'd see it as an apt comment on real-life christianity if hill orcs basically denounced lava orcs as heretics and abominations even tho they're actually the same species 17:17:45 |amethyst: isn't "clear similarities, but unmistakably different" the ideal position for two related races? 17:17:51 dpeg: one way to find out, innit? 17:18:08 <|amethyst> mumra: but the question is whether Beogh, not the hill orcs, thinks they're heretics 17:18:09 -!- Morphy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:18:09 SamB: playing, eh? But cannot hurt to think a bit about it in advance. 17:18:21 <|amethyst> mumra: oh, I see 17:18:30 <|amethyst> mumra: you mean they wouldn't join you as followers 17:18:30 -!- caracal has quit [Changing host] 17:18:33 <|amethyst> actually 17:18:40 <|amethyst> what if we had LO monsters in game 17:18:42 |amethyst: even tho LO might worship the same god, the hill orcs still want to kill them, yeah 17:18:50 dpeg: well, fixing the code to stop assuming Beogh => HO is still not a bad idea ... 17:18:51 <|amethyst> and beogh would only give you followers of the same race 17:19:03 mumra: well, yes. But note that the monster orcs are the before-mentioned Cave Orcs, and you (the Hill Orc) are the outsider; which is a very fitting religous theme, btw. Adding LO on top of that, with HO objecting to LO seems strange to me. 17:19:10 -!- Krag has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:17 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19:27 <|amethyst> then, by making the LO monsters different from cave orcs, you could make the playstyle as different as you want 17:19:29 yeah there aren't any HOs in-dungeon besides the PC are there? 17:19:31 well there aren't any hill orcs in the dungeon so whether they object to LO or not wouldn't come up 17:19:38 exactly 17:19:39 <|amethyst> ah, right 17:19:42 aahhh 17:19:47 <|amethyst> I was conflating hill with cave 17:19:50 hehehe 17:19:51 me too 17:19:52 what if beogh suppresses your fire aura in tiles where there's an orc 17:19:59 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:04 nicolae-: any orc, or just a friendly orc? 17:20:09 friendly orc 17:20:16 the heretics can burn 17:20:28 <|amethyst> FR: rename HO 17:20:30 hmm, I bet that would confuse the AI 17:20:38 SamB: how so? 17:20:44 if the aim is for the playstyles to be significantly different (not that this is typically the case for gods across different species), beogh could gift very small numbers of lava orc allies to LO 17:20:53 doesn't our monster AI try to stay out of fires? 17:20:57 Lava Orc at maximum temperature may benefit from manuals but may not start reading new ones by josh 17:20:57 lava orc scorcher 17:21:01 <|amethyst> SamB: it's not fire though 17:21:06 oh 17:21:15 <|amethyst> I don't think monsters know to avoid your heat aura 17:21:24 kind of dumb 17:21:39 <|amethyst> if everyone fled from you in melee it would kind of suck 17:21:47 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:51 hmm 17:21:59 you have a point 17:22:34 <|amethyst> nicolae-: I think that's a pretty reasonable suggestion 17:22:35 it's confusing how having the monsters act rationally is undesirable ;-) 17:22:52 <|amethyst> SamB: MF_ARCHER 17:22:52 As I see it: if the LO name stays, then Beogh worship is a must (and not a huge problem mechanics-wise, as has been said already). 17:22:57 if monsters acted rationally they'd send a runner down to D:27 to ask to borrow some liches and dragons 17:23:07 <|amethyst> err, M_ARCHER, sorry 17:23:10 <|amethyst> oh, both 17:23:10 and then you'd have about a half a percent chance of leaving the entry vault alive 17:23:16 nicolae-: lol 17:23:39 nicolae-: or they could just scarper with the orb 17:23:49 they'll give you a plastic imitation of the 17:24:05 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:24:08 <|amethyst> we should make a single monster with really good AI 17:24:21 the player 17:24:21 * geekosaur imagines a runner scrambling downstairs to borrow a lich... and getting laughed at 17:24:23 |amethyst: some of them are quite good at it 17:24:43 "it's XL2 what do you need a lich for? *zap*" 17:24:58 -!- Kagero has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:25:44 <|amethyst> dpeg: yeah, but e.g. spell selection (and timing) is kind of scattershot 17:26:08 note that the monsters don't actually exist on a floor until the player reaches them 17:26:33 so the monster trying to "borrow a lich" would never make it 17:26:40 <|amethyst> dpeg: though at least there are differences between the slots, which helps in that respect somewhat 17:26:51 |amethyst: sure, but monster AI in general has gone up (nowhere "really smart", but that's fully intentional, of course) 17:27:06 well, obviously, if we implemented lich-borrowing we'd have to generate liches to borrow 17:27:33 fr burrowing liches 17:27:43 boring lich 17:28:37 Zannick: in fact, the floors themselves don't exist until the players (are about to) reach them 17:29:18 shafts actually teleport you, you don't fall past a level, you just end up below it 17:29:39 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:06 yeah 17:30:24 -!- Qwertycoatl has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:30:24 should we have a unique that actually follows you between levels if you don't kill it 17:30:49 <|amethyst> mumra: Transdimensional Hellspider 17:31:07 true! 17:31:16 boris 17:31:25 wait, that's if you do kill him 17:31:35 hellspider should really be for abyss 17:31:47 ah, the poor fate of the TD:HS 17:32:14 i thought ignacio would reappear in pan levels if you didn't kill him when you met him 17:32:18 but the TD:HS wouldn't follow you *out* of Spider ... 17:32:28 <|amethyst> tenofswords: which works better now that the Abyss is multilevel 17:33:03 Is it intended that green draconians get big wings innately and as a result cannot wear dragon armor? Wings are not very helpful compared to dragon armor. Maybe it should at least be permaflight 17:33:17 if you could only finally kill TD:HS on Abyss:5, tournament players going for all the uniques would *have* to go there... 17:33:26 <|amethyst> I was about to say 17:33:32 <|amethyst> we need some reason to go to A:5 17:33:37 draconians can't wear dragon armour anyway 17:33:38 <|amethyst> since the rune starts showing up on 3 17:33:40 iirc 17:33:40 mumra: never use challenges are yardsticks for development :) 17:33:48 surely abyssal tourist banner would be fine with "visit abyss:5 and blah blah blah" 17:34:11 Abyssal Tourist III: Kill TD:HS 17:34:15 s/are/as/ 17:34:45 oh my bad I thought they could O_o 17:34:46 abyss:1 is still pretty deadly 17:34:49 <|amethyst> purge_: draconians were made to be armourless to distinguish them from the big races, which had similar restrictions 17:34:59 was that changed in a recent version? 17:35:01 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:35:06 <|amethyst> purge_: they lost the ability to wear body armour but gained most of the other slots 17:35:15 oic thanks :D 17:35:17 <|amethyst> a few versions ago, maybe 0.10 ? 17:35:43 0.10, yeah 17:36:06 ancient! 17:36:36 fr: new monster "ancient seal" 17:36:50 orf orf! 17:37:11 You open the seal like a pillowcase!!! You break the seal! 17:37:53 Loving the new versions keep up the awesome work! 17:39:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:40:30 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:39 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte should we temporarily do the windows trunk builds without threaded db init, until we find out why Windows is freezing 17:41:39 ??door mimic 17:41:40 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:40 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 17:41:40 door mimic[1/2]: You open the door like a pillowcase!!! 17:44:56 ??door mimic[2] 17:44:57 door mimic[2/2]: !lg sky 5348 -tv:<3 17:46:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:49:12 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:54 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:16 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 17:56:08 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:57:21 -!- ground4 has quit [Client Quit] 17:58:25 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:59:45 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:38 I think I missed something while cleaning up this randrod patch. 18:02:50 e - a twisted glittering rod {-Cast -Tele *Tele Noisy +Rage rPois MP+1534963952 Acc+1534964480 Dam+32767 RMsl} 18:02:56 i'll take it 18:03:45 hm, lost souls will reknit the undead through iron grates 18:03:50 should i be the one to abuse this 18:04:08 actually it probably wouldn't be so bad if you can lure the revenant away 18:04:09 <|amethyst> nicolae-: make them work through glass too :P 18:04:24 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:04:49 <|amethyst> permaglass specifically 18:11:28 Scrolls of immolation should auto pickup for Djinni by Palyth 18:13:37 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:16:04 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 18:17:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:17:55 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:18:02 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:18:21 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:19:35 do djinni still get damaged by fire spells? 18:19:50 no 18:20:02 do revenant's ghostly flames effect them 18:20:24 thanks 18:20:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:37 -!- leparfum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:27:29 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:27:34 <|amethyst> I really should write a script to do the "Fixed in trunk (0.13-a0-gf00ba4), thanks!" messages 18:27:39 <|amethyst> s/script/hook/ 18:28:14 e - the +0 Sceptre of Air (13/13) [...] Spells: a - Airstrike 18:28:21 1learn add apropos_randarts 18:29:14 are there going to be spells that only appear on randrods 18:29:14 <|amethyst> ghostly flames randart rod 18:29:18 that would be neat, i think 18:29:38 s you read the scroll of recharging, it crumbles to dust. _The +6 Sceptre of Air (17/17) glows for a moment. 18:29:54 ...I wonder if I should be able to do this or not. 18:30:09 <|amethyst> Grunt: hm 18:30:14 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:30 <|amethyst> Grunt: are these considered randarts? 18:30:33 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 18:30:38 <|amethyst> Grunt: or more like randbooks? 18:30:48 the sound like 50/50 18:30:58 Most of the underlying code is randbooks, but they are effectively randarts. 18:31:12 This leads me to believe that I should not be able to recharge them. 18:31:12 <|amethyst> because you can rip apart "artefact" books, so those are mutable 18:31:18 <|amethyst> yeah 18:31:32 what if you can recharge them but it doesn't increase their pluses, it just refills the tank 18:31:34 Grunt: maybe they could use random base weapon types as well 18:31:40 <|amethyst> if they're more artefact than the books are they should be immutable 18:31:49 <|amethyst> you should be able to recharge, just not recharge-enchant them 18:31:50 i thought we were just discussing how the only interesting rods were the ones that didn't just have normal spells in them anyway? 18:32:47 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:32:56 <|amethyst> it should definitely be a short whitelist, most of them non-player-spells 18:33:13 porkalator imo 18:33:22 Rod of Pork 18:33:32 <|amethyst> nicolae-: Hot Dog 18:34:22 bacon brand 18:34:53 <|amethyst> the problem I see is that rods are already rare enough, a particular randart rod would be so rare that no one would ever see it 18:35:02 just hand-picking a few interesting effects seems far better to me 18:35:03 <|amethyst> s/no one/few/ 18:35:11 tweak up the rod generation rate maybe 18:35:18 <|amethyst> yeah 18:35:30 <|amethyst> right now it's in some places 9:1 in favour of staves 18:35:44 <|amethyst> s/9:1/at least &/ 18:35:53 <|amethyst> err 18:36:08 <|amethyst> it's, at least in some places, 9:1 in favour of staves 18:36:09 increase misc items in general now they are getting much better 18:36:31 sentinel's mark rod 18:36:33 <|amethyst> let me check floor junk probs 18:36:51 <|amethyst> nicolae-: maybe not that, but the door sealing spell 18:36:53 i know rods are weight 1 18:36:59 <|amethyst> or is that not a spell? 18:37:13 <|amethyst> yeah 18:37:35 <|amethyst> 200:30:9:1 books to staves to rods in floor junk 18:37:37 <|amethyst> err 18:37:50 <|amethyst> 200:30:9:1 weapons:books:staves:rods 18:38:08 where are misc items? are they part of 'rods'? 18:38:14 well the new misc items are powerful 18:38:17 it seems 18:38:20 so they shouldn't be made too common 18:38:24 it should be exciting to find one 18:38:25 oh, yeah, door sealing would actually be pretty good for a player 18:38:29 they're only powerful with high Evo though 18:38:31 <|amethyst> mumra: they're weird 18:38:41 <|amethyst> // misc items placement wholly dependent upon current depth {dlb}: 18:38:41 <|amethyst> if (item_level > 7 && x_chance_in_y(21 + item_level, 3500)) 18:39:14 <|amethyst> they're kind of considered an "upgrade" in a sense 18:39:48 but i think the permanent misc items, i.e. the new ones and rods, should definitely be rarer than temp items (box of beasts, decks) 18:39:56 <|amethyst> by comparison, super_item and acquire any are 20:10:9:1 18:40:02 <|amethyst> s/super/superb/ 18:40:10 <|amethyst> 10 for misc there, too 18:41:27 <|amethyst> mumra: and things like lantern of shadows rarer 18:41:36 yes 18:41:49 <|amethyst> !lg . race=gargoyle -log 18:41:50 1. neil, XL17 GrCj, T:44391: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/neil/morgue-neil-20130531-142047.txt 18:41:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:42:14 maybe some of these should show up in shops a bit more; they're prohibitively expensive in any case 18:42:21 <|amethyst> I got four(!) in that game 18:42:30 <|amethyst> three of them in the first three levels of lair 18:42:38 you're only likely to blow all your money on them if you're evocations-based anyway and want a bunch of gadgets to lug around 18:42:56 |amethyst: i had two lamps of fire and one fan of air in my DgFi game 18:43:00 well they're not at all uncommon in loot vaults, as amethyst pointed out 18:43:02 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:06 after clearing lair/orc and some of D 18:43:20 so i don't see that much needs changing 18:43:40 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 18:44:50 could be worth changing shop prices since it's entirely possible that those make no sense though, yeah 18:45:43 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1348-gd368545: Don't mark immolation as dangerous for djinn (#7125). 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d368545d81b1 18:46:06 <|amethyst> fast chei is disconcerting to me as well 18:46:12 <|amethyst> the powers of push 18:46:15 heh 18:46:18 <|amethyst> s/powers/power/ 18:46:20 fast chei? 18:46:39 -!- voker57_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:39 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:46:41 -!- noppa354 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:46:43 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:47:05 chei-the-bot was given faster update capabilities for tracking git 18:47:10 <|amethyst> nicolae-: Chei the bot now takes like 20-30 seconds to show commits instead of 1-5 minutes 18:47:35 ah 18:47:41 <|amethyst> and the link works right away because it's to Chei's repo 18:47:43 and at some point I want to poke at Bot::BasicBot to see how hard it would be to make it watch for a push from procmail 18:48:37 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:46 s/1-5/1-35 18:48:48 (doesn't look difficult for anyone with basic POE knowledge) 18:49:27 <|amethyst> geekosaur: actually 18:49:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:49:38 <|amethyst> geekosaur: with the way I'm using it now, inotify might be best 18:50:10 POEx::Inotify, then 18:50:28 <|amethyst> I'll look into that, thanks 18:51:04 looks like it might be harder to hook into something that hides the POE kernel though 18:51:16 <|amethyst> yeah 18:51:30 mm, actually, no, just the example 18:51:44 should be fine to do from Bot::BasicBot's init 18:52:02 qw 18:52:08 hi 18:52:24 wrong window 18:52:25 <|amethyst> at some point I'll read the POE docs and the Bot::BasicBot source and then it shouldn't be a problem 18:52:58 <|amethyst> Because I'm not averse to hacking up the library 18:53:31 <|amethyst> I've already got one local patch 18:54:00 <|amethyst> Bot::BasicBot I mean 18:54:15 doesn't take hacking the library, just subclassing it so you can override the init method as per Bot::BasicBot documentation. you may already be doing that in which case it's drop a little extra code in there 18:54:38 <|amethyst> I haven't looked into Chei's code much, even 18:54:44 -!- lorinal has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:54:46 <|amethyst> just the individual plugins 18:54:52 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 18:55:01 <|amethyst> the rest I inherited from doy's Ashenzari bot 18:55:43 <|amethyst> (well those I inherited too) 18:55:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:58:53 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:55 <|amethyst> Grunt: does monster mass confusion affect everyone or just you and allies? 19:00:10 It affects whatever isn't aligned with the caster. 19:00:16 <|amethyst> aha 19:00:55 <|amethyst> does it make sense to upgrade ghost alistair's to that? 19:01:15 ...monsters can't cast Alistair's. 19:01:22 <|amethyst> that's what I mean 19:01:31 <|amethyst> if a player has alistair's their ghost gets mass confusion 19:01:36 Aha. 19:01:49 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:02:05 thematically it's a different type of thing so i would say not really 19:03:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:03:38 <|amethyst> hm 19:05:06 <|amethyst> I was thinking they're more similar than agony and torment, but I guess thematically they're not 19:05:20 also ghosts do get to cast agony now :P 19:05:37 <|amethyst> they do? 19:05:52 <|amethyst> is the code in ghost.cc:280..290 dead? 19:05:53 would mass confusion vs alistair's play any differently at all 19:06:30 that's just pan lords i think 19:06:43 <|amethyst> st_: depends on what you think is consistent wrt the clarity vs rPois thing 19:07:08 <|amethyst> mumra: oh, you're right 19:07:11 <|amethyst> doh 19:07:15 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: oh, you're right 19:07:17 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 19:07:23 translate_spell is presumably used for both pan lords and ghosts, and then that bit is just for pan lords and additionally upgrades agony to torment 19:07:38 I didn't even realise alistair's checked rpois 19:07:52 shows how much I've used it (never) 19:08:52 <|amethyst> st_: it checks clarity for the player, and clarity and rP for the monster (either is enough to stop it) 19:08:53 mass confusion is an MR check and alistairs is just a flat chance 19:09:21 and the flat chance used to be 100%, you should have used it then :P 19:09:30 <|amethyst> hello V:$ 19:09:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:09:52 <|amethyst> welcoming committee I mean 19:10:06 <|amethyst> though lots of the rest of V:$ was vulnerable as well 19:10:34 <|amethyst> I don't think I've used it since it was nerfed 19:11:22 <|amethyst> hm, maybe I have, when was that? 19:11:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:41 %git 859b0f8af464114 19:11:41 07MarvinPA * 0.10-a0-513-g859b0f8: Make Alistair's Intoxication depend on power 10(1 year, 9 months ago, 2 files, 9+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=859b0f8af464 19:11:51 <|amethyst> !lg . won -2 19:11:52 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: Arivia] 19:11:52 1/2. Neil the Sorcerer (L27 SpSt), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-08-31 02:58:26, with 1298440 points after 120543 turns and 10:19:50. 19:11:56 <|amethyst> !lg . won -2 x=v 19:11:57 1/2. [v=0.9.0] Neil the Sorcerer (L27 SpSt), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-08-31 02:58:26, with 1298440 points after 120543 turns and 10:19:50. 19:12:10 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:27 <|amethyst> !lm . br.end=v:8 s=v,char 19:12:28 No milestones for |amethyst (br.end=v:8). 19:12:35 <|amethyst> !lm . br.end=vaults s=v,char 19:12:36 7 milestones for |amethyst (br.end=vaults): 3x 0.9.0 (2x SpSt, FeTm), 3x 0.10.0-a0 (MfGl, DEWz, HOHe), 0.12.0-a0 (MiGl) 19:12:37 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:16 -!- Adeon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:22 <|amethyst> !hs . dewz -log 19:13:22 -!- MarkFuKenni has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:13:23 35. Neil, XL27 DEWz, T:135695: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Neil/morgue-Neil-20120109-021149.txt 19:13:51 <|amethyst> I used it 21 times in that game, and apparently didn't find it particularly memorable 19:13:59 <|amethyst> so I guess the nerf worked :) 19:14:37 <|amethyst> !hs . mfgl x=v -log 19:14:38 48. Neil, XL23 MfGl, T:95112: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Neil/morgue-Neil-20111226-144653.txt 19:14:56 <|amethyst> oh, and I used it there too 19:15:08 <|amethyst> apparently I just have terrible memory 19:15:24 -!- tenofswords has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:19:58 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:59 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 19:20:05 -!- thann has left ##crawl-dev 19:20:07 -!- fungee^ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:20:33 -!- Kagero has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:35 -!- Jevouse has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:35 |amethyst: you were too intoxicated to remember :b 19:23:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:24:00 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:24:14 Undo (L15 DDAr) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 80) (D (Sprint)) 19:25:56 Undo (L15 DDAr) ERROR: range check error (-2 / 80) (D (Sprint)) 19:26:01 Running ascii version of freebsd, both fooditems and inventory have no color. Happens even with no init/rc files. 19:27:27 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1349-g8a7b8bc: Properly set Z_NOZOMBIE for tengu conjurers. 10(58 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8a7b8bc8d375 19:27:54 <|amethyst> I think Alistair should have more spells 19:28:50 <|amethyst> Alistair's Magic Smoke 19:29:21 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:29:27 <|amethyst> Lee's Famous Recipe 19:29:48 !send |amethyst Lee's Rapid Deconstructor 19:29:49 Sending Lee's Rapid Deconstructor to |amethyst. 19:31:36 <|amethyst> (and that wasn't a north america-only joke; apparently there's one in Amman, Jordan too 19:31:40 <|amethyst> ) 19:32:32 <|amethyst> oh, multiple locations in Jordan 19:35:49 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1350-ge054757: Comment fix. 10(22 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e054757f1e62 19:36:24 <|amethyst> since bags are on the never list, what about a God of Holding 19:36:55 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:37:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:38:06 portable altar of holding imo 19:38:11 <|amethyst> they work like a bank: you deposit items with your * ability, maybe even for piety, you can withdraw a random item at **, a chosen item at ***, and any number of items at ***** 19:38:52 <|amethyst> they'd kind of suck early on :) 19:39:25 <|amethyst> s/ early on// 19:41:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:42:58 jiiiiiyva 19:44:22 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:20 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 19:46:40 -!- ontoclasm has left ##crawl-dev 19:46:44 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:48 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:49:17 -!- rphillips has quit [Excess Flood] 19:50:42 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:03 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 20:00:30 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:00:33 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:01:07 that lorc zin bug is great 20:01:14 how would zin even work, silver would melt :( 20:01:24 <|amethyst> LO of Fedhas 20:01:34 |amethyst: need lava flora.. 20:01:45 (burning bush) 20:02:54 only YOU can start forest fires! 20:03:43 ??forest[$ 20:03:44 forest[3/3]: Set the trees on fire to win. 20:05:12 <|amethyst> make spriggans spawn balrugs when they die in a fi 20:05:18 <|amethyst> fire 20:05:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:58 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:07:11 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1351-g587b4aa: Properly set Z_NOZOMBIE for more new career-type monsters, as well as the Pan unique. 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=587b4aa22053 20:08:06 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:30 i always knew there was something shifty about those spriggans 20:16:56 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:34 unknown monster: "floor mimic" 20:17:34 %??floor mimic 20:17:46 unknown monster: "inept floor mimic" 20:17:46 %??inept floor mimic 20:18:02 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:18:28 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:19:10 unknown monster: "inept mimic" 20:19:10 %?? inept mimic 20:19:21 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:19:25 inept feature mimic (09X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 5/1 | Dam: 6, 003(constrict) | 11non-living | Res: 06magic(8), 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 10 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 20:19:25 %??inept feature mimic 20:20:26 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:56 * SamB was wondering if you could place floor mimics in vaults 20:21:16 ASSERT(m->inv[MSLOT_MISCELLANY] != NON_ITEM) in 'mon-info.cc' at line 523 failed. 20:21:16 %??inept item mimic 20:21:34 Monster 'inept item mimic' can't use items. 20:21:34 %??inept item mimic ; lemon 20:23:35 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1352-ga227313: "&G harmful" to get rid of non-decorative monsters. 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a22731368d23 20:23:35 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1353-g8c006ae: Disable placing of (most) plants in the Lair. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8c006ae451aa 20:24:31 -!- pelotron has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:24:33 why no plants in the lair? 20:24:43 Jevouse: try autoexploring there 20:24:43 kilobyte: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 20:25:10 kilobyte: any interest in looking at my wip lorc commit and helping me get it compiling so it can go into trunk? :) it has a bunch of bugfixes and balance changes 20:25:16 (as well as code cleanup) 20:25:30 Jevouse: you need to manually kill several plants on a level to be able to tell parts of the level being blocked from a random plant in a nook somewhere 20:25:41 Eronarn: sure, where is it? 20:25:42 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:25:54 kilobyte: it's a feature! 20:26:00 Jevouse: I only disabled guilty code, didn't remove i yet 20:26:09 s/ i / it / 20:26:47 kilobyte: https://github.com/Eronarn/Crawling-Chaos/tree/lorc_rebase_bh_wip 20:26:51 FR: butcher corpse in pack 20:27:27 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:08 it's two commits off the tip of my 'lava_orc_rebased' branch 20:28:09 Eronarn: which commits are new, though? 20:28:14 which i think is what is in trunk now 20:28:33 one to mark lorc monsters as unfinished, and then one giant wip commit with fixes 20:28:40 "Flag lava orc monsters as unfinished." / "wip commit of lorc changes - doesn't compile" ? 20:28:48 looks strange 20:29:05 actually... i might be wrong, looking at the network graph 20:29:24 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 20:29:38 ah yeah oops 20:29:55 'lava_orc' is what is in trunk 20:30:08 -!- ZRN has quit [] 20:30:33 'lava_orc_rebased' is a rebased version of that with the balance changes and such 20:31:06 'lorc_rebase_bh_wip' is 'lava_orc_rebased' with one real commit, and one 'oh shit i better at least get this into gh, git commit -a!' commit 20:32:32 and that megacommit is a mix of splitting lorc stuff into temperature.cc, and actually doing some fixes to the temperature code 20:32:36 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 20:32:39 for example, it's now based on halflife 20:33:01 -!- alefury has quit [] 20:33:21 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:34:06 anyways, that commit should be mostly done, except i'm doing the class inheritance stuff off of actor wrong 20:34:10 because i don't know C++ well at all 20:34:16 both top commits on lava_orc_rebased are already in trunk 20:34:38 "Fix EV printing for lava orcs." and "Print temperature when the game first loads." 20:35:30 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1354-gcde6346: Remove zombie name handling for the Serpent of Hell; it can't be zombified. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cde634629c17 20:35:34 kilobyte: those commits might be there, but i'd expect different hashes... 20:36:00 so what's there to pick? 20:36:19 one sec, let me figure out the diff 20:40:40 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:42 okay, i'm wrong - lava_orc_rebased is a pure rebase, merging many commits but not actually changing content 20:42:17 it looks like i was smart enough to put off the balance changes into that wip commit (but not smart enough to finish getting it compiling so i'd have time to break it out into commits) 20:42:31 so if you want a neater commit history, you can do lava_orc_rebased instead of lava_orc 20:43:37 but the more important stuff is getting that wip commit compiling and breaking it into some chunks as appropriate 20:44:20 https://github.com/Eronarn/Crawling-Chaos/commit/fae123d02869e32bcc4c07fc09b46b736f472cee#L18R1 20:44:33 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1355-g53148a0: "&G mobile" to leave those oklobs and statues intact. 10(84 seconds ago, 2 files, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=53148a0a7429 20:47:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:48:49 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:30 pretty hard to figure out anything from this, I'm afraid :( 20:54:13 kilobyte: well, mostly just look at the temperature.cc stuff vs. the old stuff at the bottom of mon-stuff.cc 20:54:16 that's why i linked that file 20:54:41 Lava Orc oddity in relation to temperature and monster position. by Xion350 20:54:41 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:58:48 -!- BrightCloud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:59:38 New branch created: rod_rework (4 commits) 20:59:39 03Grunt 07[rod_rework] * 0.13-a0-1356-gf38f07f: Axe multi-spell rods. 10(4 hours ago, 5 files, 46+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f38f07fad412 20:59:39 03Grunt 07[rod_rework] * 0.13-a0-1357-gae04aa9: Don't treat rods as weapons; have them evokable when not wielded. 10(4 hours ago, 5 files, 2+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ae04aa9b66e1 20:59:39 03Grunt 07[rod_rework] * 0.13-a0-1358-ga8ec56b: Have monsters treat rods like wands instead of weapons. 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 14+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a8ec56be25be 20:59:39 03Grunt 07[rod_rework] * 0.13-a0-1359-g59d031e: Rod of clouds. 10(15 minutes ago, 13 files, 138+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=59d031eb26c9 21:00:29 I don't think evoking rods without wielding them is good 21:00:43 since things that should be rods are focused on evoking them a lot in fairly quick succession 21:00:55 and it is more annoying UI-wise to do that if you have to select it each time 21:01:16 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:18 ` 21:01:33 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:01:35 "quick succession" doesn't mean "immediately" 21:01:45 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:02:02 merge rods and staves 21:02:21 ` also often means "do weird stuff and target something i didn't want to target" 21:02:24 in particular using a rod is really convenient in the common case where you have it on b 21:02:31 ' v. stuff v. v. v. stuff ' 21:02:54 MarvinPA: https://github.com/Eronarn/Crawling-Chaos/commit/fae123d02869e32bcc4c07fc09b46b736f472cee#L18R1 temperature.cc 21:02:59 contrast with old mon-stuff.cc temperature 21:03:01 Vb is that little bit more annoying and flashes the screen with a menu, having to set up a macro for it would be annoying 21:03:16 elliott: solution: wands in quiver 21:03:33 lol 21:03:49 that wasn't a joke 21:03:49 Grunt: that said, I think it would be an improvement if they were non-weapons (hence non-cursable) 21:03:53 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:03:55 (but still wield-based) 21:04:03 Eronarn: that doesn't make it not funny 21:04:04 rods being weapons turned out to be a bust, yeah 21:04:14 There's nothing stopping you from wielding a rod and evoking it in this current branch. 21:04:19 staff of striking please though 21:04:44 Grunt: well it is suboptimal 21:04:50 (with recharge-on-melee-hit) 21:04:51 there is no reason you would not want to evoke it, despite that having a more tedious interface 21:05:51 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:09 also: 'fleshy rod' please 21:06:16 it twitches when you evoke it 21:06:18 harhar 21:06:28 * Grunt gestures at Eronarn. Eronarn is devoured by a tear in reality. 21:06:39 stone to meatwall 21:07:07 -!- BrightCloud has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:27 i mean, you might as well make bows evokable from the inventory :P 21:07:44 (or slings, maybe, for a better comparison since they're more secondary) 21:07:54 preloaded crossbowwwwws 21:07:56 Grunt: er, why are you axing multi-spell rods instead of boring 1-spell ones? 21:07:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 21:08:33 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:08:56 now you have a reason to love yaktaurs even more 21:09:11 you get a scummable wand instead of something versatile 21:10:06 also, even for theme-wise single spell rods, you lose the possibility of having different effects: like, one shot vs a burst 21:11:59 plus, as elliott mentioned, the V interface is really crappy for something you do often 21:12:40 When I brought up the suggestion of working on rods earlier, it was decided that we'd prefer rods that have unique effects as opposed to rods that duplicate effects available through other means; the set of those rods and the set of spells that have multiple spells just happen to be the same. 21:12:59 that's a reason casting a spell doesn't bring up the menu unless you request it 21:13:16 -!- BrightCloud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:13:34 it's not like there's a dearth of spell ideas 21:14:55 -!- Kagero has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:31 making V not default to a menu doesn't make sense for other evokables, though: wands run out of charge faster than you can get used to a particular one, new fans/lamps take ages to recharge, etc 21:15:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:17:13 vertexvortex (L4 LOHe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 1019: screen write out of bounds: (1,14) into (42,13) (Zot (ZotDef)) 21:17:22 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 21:21:38 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 21:22:25 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:23:19 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:23:27 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:23:53 Hmmm... If I'm understanding the intent of this code correctly, gargoyles are getting double the intended chance of self-petrification stat loss. 21:25:04 I've got a patch which fixes apparently missing parentheses, but it will halve the probability of stat loss 21:25:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:30:51 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:32:10 -!- Helmschank has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:17 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 21:36:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:35 -!- galilee has quit [Client Quit] 21:38:38 qoala: probably bh will have to decide that :) 21:38:45 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 21:39:34 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 21:39:34 yeah, I submitted the patch on mantis, but am unsure of the potential balance effect 21:40:06 Missing parentheses in gargoyle petrification-stat-loss by qoala 21:40:42 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:43:06 oh, somebody beat me to the punch on the faun line tiles 21:43:16 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:43:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:27 I'm open to suggestions for replacements :b 21:43:29 i should probably check before making tiles >.> 21:43:57 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1355-g53148a0 21:44:28 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/satyr.png 21:45:58 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:01 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:53:14 i don't want to just like, dump mine on top of yours :C 21:53:59 can satyrs use shields? Tiles in fancy poses have problems with them. 21:55:44 ontoclasm: do it; I didn't intend for those to stick around when I made them :) 21:57:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:53 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:59:37 ha ha ha actually being cautious about changes 21:59:44 is this actually a common sentiment right now? I don't understand it 22:00:18 trunk has experimental stuff right now, it's clearly not balanced, and that's going to get addressed. If the design doesn't work out they can just get cut, whatever. That was talked about before merging. And it's early in the release cycle 22:00:27 -!- rapgameantimage has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:00:32 what's not cautious here? Is there some sort of problem? 22:00:49 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:01:06 -!- CKyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:17 are we extrapolating from hangedman sentiment to common sentiment :P 22:01:28 You either let something rot in a branch and nothing happens, or you push it out the door and actually move ahead with the design (or see if it's ultimately hopeless) 22:01:47 I don't know. I don't have time to visit ##crawl really (and I value my sanity too much) 22:02:07 beh, sanity is overrated 22:02:28 well afaik satyrs and fauns use longbow exclusively 22:02:31 *s 22:02:49 so... maybe they can use shields? 22:03:04 but i've never seen a centaur use one so i'm guessing no 22:03:22 I think it may technically be possible for them to pick up shields right now, but they're intended to be ranged attackers (near-)exclusively. 22:03:30 I don't think monsters that have a two-handed ranged weapon will use shields? 22:03:44 centaurs always are placed with bows. i dont think there is a way to make them drop their bows, not 100% certain 22:03:49 never seen it happen though 22:03:58 I've noticed Mennas put down his shield to pick up a bow before 22:04:00 satyrs can pick stuff up, including replacing the bow 22:04:00 (by bows i meant bows/longbows) 22:04:15 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:04:33 -!- browncustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 22:05:29 about 0.12.2: any reason not to tag it? 22:05:58 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:06:02 well... they can carry any shields they happen to grab in a weird position then 22:07:36 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:23 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I have a couple of commits I should push first 22:08:51 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:09:16 <|amethyst> kilobyte: Do you thing the ctrl-h thing should be cherry-picked? 22:09:52 |amethyst: possibly, why not? 22:09:59 it doesn't appear to have broken anything 22:10:14 what doth ctrl-h do 22:10:58 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:11:21 <|amethyst> Jevouse: attack left 22:11:24 <|amethyst> without moving 22:11:37 I think I'll drop the towel about optimizations on fringe architectures: it took me a lot of effort to check that the ICE on sparc goes away on updated compilers, but I see a build failure with gcc-4.8 on powerpc in Ubuntu... 22:11:59 just ctrl- will work then? 22:12:16 <|amethyst> Jevouse: in console, probably not 22:17:12 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:26 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:29 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I'm also cherry picking one of your commits 22:17:47 <|amethyst> %git dde6c5f3 22:17:47 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-182-gdde6c5f: Don't confirm attacks if confirmations are disabled. 10(8 weeks ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dde6c5f30ba0 22:17:48 would you think there's anything more? 22:18:22 |amethyst: that is for the Abyss bot only, nothing else uses disables, I think 22:18:53 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:19:04 <|amethyst> kilobyte: hm 22:19:27 it's harmless, of course 22:19:30 <|amethyst> I guess I can skip it; I included it because it avoided a (trivial) conflict for me 22:19:35 <|amethyst> hm 22:19:45 <|amethyst> might as well include it then 22:20:24 <|amethyst> kilobyte: how to fix minmay_lair_hidden_items for 0.12? remove it? 22:20:41 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:20:42 <|amethyst> kilobyte: or make its border non-random 22:20:43 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-1356-g0c1ef45: Tiles for fauns, satyrs, and Pan 10(17 seconds ago, 4 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0c1ef45d92b5 22:20:59 either would work, I think 22:21:39 ontoclasm: thanks!!! 22:21:42 mancandy 22:21:58 <|amethyst> kilobyte: should I apply this one? 22:22:03 <|amethyst> %git 7c22cc395 22:22:03 07MarvinPA * 0.13-a0-1344-g7c22cc3: Fix some hidden item vaults 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c22cc395b7b 22:22:49 not a bugfix, it just removes incentive to explore the Lair thoroughly 22:22:52 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:58 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:23:08 <|amethyst> I figured you would say that :) 22:23:11 pan needs speech so he can sound like a drunken party guy 22:23:13 (which is tedious, but can leave parts of the level blocked, if there's a narrow corridor anywhere) 22:23:22 Pan has a tiny amount of speech, but he could use more. 22:23:24 <|amethyst> I'll leave the vault but change the border 22:23:49 Then again, some of our longstanding uniques don't have a lot of speech either. 22:24:19 * kilobyte forces Cerebov to give Grunt a long stern talking to. 22:26:03 I don't think anyone can force Cerebov to do anything, besides which he isn't the type for long speeches. :b 22:27:08 he uses imp speech 22:27:41 dont ever change that 22:28:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:51 Why would we? 22:28:59 I like having the panlords throw silly insults. 22:29:07 cerebov is a buffed imp, this is canon 22:29:19 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I'm not sure about all of Medar's webtiles tweaks 22:29:21 A -3 or so on the scale of demondom? 22:29:25 <|amethyst> kilobyte: related to drawing order 22:31:36 |amethyst: they don't appear to be bug fixes to me 22:31:38 hey grunt, does your rod_rework branch make rods only use V? 22:31:42 or is it just an alternative? 22:31:47 They can still use v if wielded. 22:31:48 <|amethyst> kilobyte: what about: 22:31:52 <|amethyst> %git 7ec7b533 22:31:52 07dolorous * 0.13-a0-934-g7ec7b53: Fix setting profane servitors' god to Yred; MONS_ANGEL is their genus, not MONS_PROFANE_SERVITOR. 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7ec7b53325a4 22:31:52 that seems alright to me 22:31:54 visual improvements, yeah, fixes, no 22:32:12 LexAckson the Severer (L15 DjFE) ASSERT(count == 1 || you.where_are_you == root_branch) in 'dungeon.cc' at line 1445 failed on turn 48048. (Spider:1) 22:32:20 I'm not at all sure about anything in rod_rework right now; more just experimentation. 22:32:21 <|amethyst> I don't know if that one actually caused bad messaging 22:32:22 <|amethyst> oh 22:32:32 Grunt: the rod of clouds looks interesting, can't comment on balance 22:32:34 |amethyst: you mean, servitors worshipping TSO? But... but... he's such a nice god. 22:32:36 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:32:40 i like how you make it shoot a cone instead of copy the cloud spells 22:32:43 evilmike: that one wasn't my idea :) 22:32:49 I just implemented it. 22:36:24 1RROR: Unable to find exit from hangedman_glass_garden 22:36:37 can't quite see why 22:37:23 my favorite idea for cerebov speech was for him to use imp speech but IN ALL CAPS 22:38:05 XTAHUA IS INSULTED THAT YOU WOULD SUGGEST THAT. 22:38:24 <|amethyst> kilobyte: hmm 22:38:31 <|amethyst> %git b72fcf6 22:38:32 07Grunt * 0.13-a0-877-gb72fcf6: Don't drown/incinerate player in Abyss when placing vaults. 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 19+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b72fcf6e1756 22:38:44 -!- Dixlet_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:38:56 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:39:02 <|amethyst> has anyone seen problems with this (after the next two commits of Grunt's) 22:39:05 -!- Dixlet_ is now known as Dixlet 22:39:08 What about using doublewidth instead? 22:39:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:39:38 |amethyst: mumra noticed a couple of tiles hiccups, but I'm not sure if those persisted after the complete set of commits. 22:40:42 <|amethyst> I guess murdering players with no warning is worse than possibly having tile hiccoughs 22:40:50 kilobyte: I doubt that works in most fonts 22:41:01 though it works fine here ;-) 22:41:05 <|amethyst> Grunt: anything besides b72fcf6 51761f5 and ce25248 I need for that 22:41:09 (it's a bit ugly though) 22:41:22 SamB: ugly too, and I'm obviously joking 22:41:48 yeah 22:41:54 obviously ;-) 22:42:13 <|amethyst> kilobyte: and do you consider this one to be a bugfix? 22:42:19 <|amethyst> %git c9690d0f 22:42:19 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-871-gc9690d0: Don't randomly generate items under firewood. 10(9 days ago, 2 files, 8+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c9690d0fdd21 22:42:42 strictly speaking no 22:42:48 not a balance change, though 22:43:16 more of a "this is kind of annoying, lets stop doing it..." type change 22:43:19 Do we consider annoying players to be a bug? 22:43:20 :) 22:43:31 misdesign, I think 22:44:05 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I guess the -O1 on gcc-4.2 thing probably should be included 22:44:17 |amethyst: oh yeah, definitely! 22:44:20 not sure i'd define it as a bug, but it's bad design which goes against crawl's design philosophy. so it ought to get treated the same as a bug, regardless 22:44:30 |amethyst: thanks for spotting that 22:44:50 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45:05 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:45:19 -!- voker57__ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45:30 but i dont have a problem with backporting stuff like that to 0.12. maybe some people would, I dunno 22:45:37 -!- voker57_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:47:40 I'm probably too strict about balance changes, but at least this one doesn't give you more or less loot, merely removes some hassle with retrieving it 22:47:57 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:04 NSUBST: M : 1:+ / 2 = mmm+ / * = m:19 +:1 22:48:20 is this syntax correct? 22:48:53 can it possibly turn one of four (always) 'M' glyphs into something other than '+'? 22:48:54 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:50:29 as far as I can tell, that guarantees one '+' 22:51:53 I read as, "guarantee one +; place another two on a 25% chance; have a 1 in 20 chance of replacing any of the rest with a +. 22:52:00 yeah 22:53:12 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:53:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:54:44 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:52 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:10 ERROR: Unable to find exit from hangedman_glass_garden by KiloByte 22:57:18 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1357-gce0c922: Make invis berserking/insane monsters lose their stealth (Reaver) 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ce0c922711c8 22:57:18 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1358-g20c23f8: Fix a crash when a friendly monster ponders casting Blink Other. 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=20c23f8545c3 22:57:45 <|amethyst> kilobyte: does that one need cherry-picked? 22:57:51 <|amethyst> kilobyte: the blink other one 22:58:26 -!- pantaril has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:58:33 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:42 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:54 -!- Perryman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:02 <|amethyst> kilobyte: oh, I see, it's dim anchor related 22:59:18 <|amethyst> okay, I think this is ready to go 22:59:44 <|amethyst> I squashed a number of commits with their fixes 22:59:47 Nowadays, if I type my login name all uppercase, I don't even get an uppercase "PASSWORD:" prompt anymore :( 22:59:47 -- Enrico Zini 22:59:59 kilobyte: does this sound familiar to you? 23:00:11 <|amethyst> SamB: it's old unix behaviour 23:00:16 -!- atomicthumbs has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:17 -!- hhkb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:17 -!- Virigoth has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:37 -!- Sorbius_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:38 -!- Mandevil has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:41 <|amethyst> oh, right, I think kilobyte was talking about that at some point 23:00:55 -!- greensna1k has joined ##crawl-dev 23:01:33 doesn't getty still support that? 23:01:53 some of them. most of the current linux getty-s don't bother 23:02:11 -!- atomicthumbs has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:16 since it's mostly for ksr33 support 23:03:05 -!- BizmarkRibeye has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:03:12 Cherry-picked 15 commits into stone_soup-0.12 23:03:12 03|amethyst 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12.1-64-gbb1e090: Avoid closets in minmay_lair_hidden_items (#7099) 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bb1e090dc1e3 23:03:26 -!- twzt_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:01 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:07 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:16 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:06:52 -!- greensnark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:52 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:06:52 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:07:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 23:08:10 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:08:11 -!- IsaacSin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:08:11 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:09:07 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:42 -!- dagonfive has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:11:17 -!- bhaak_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:20 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:20 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:21 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:21 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:21 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:21 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:21 -!- ibanix has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:22 -!- hart_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:43 -!- Eldarby has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:44 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:16:31 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:17:24 -!- frostsnow has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:17:24 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:17:57 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18:48 <|amethyst> kilobyte: oh, a few more 23:18:57 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 23:19:15 -!- stabwound has quit [Changing host] 23:19:16 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 23:19:17 bf403f774d29c2ed7babe47872b0166378854994 for one 23:19:42 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 23:19:49 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 23:20:06 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 23:20:17 -!- dienosore has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:21:41 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 23:21:43 Oops. 23:22:19 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 23:22:19 does co allow deleting saves? 23:22:39 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 23:22:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte: no 23:22:57 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 23:23:03 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 23:23:06 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 23:23:16 <|amethyst> hm 23:23:30 * SamB wonders if crawl.. exists 23:23:30 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 23:23:31 <|amethyst> trying it locally and marvinpa's fix isn't working in 0.12 23:23:31 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 23:23:34 lightli likes his 1337 h4x0r 23:23:42 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:1) 23:23:47 stop crashing every 5 seconds 23:24:17 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:5) 23:24:22 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:5) 23:24:25 the mosquito sounds like "bring back MD" 23:24:30 can't be sure though 23:24:32 <|amethyst> oh 23:24:35 maybe we should swat it 23:24:38 Lightli: dude stop flooding 23:24:41 sorry 23:24:52 darkli (L1 MDFi) ERROR in 'species.cc' at line 355: player of an invalid species (D:7) 23:24:55 I just want to die 23:25:20 you are immortally undead 23:25:34 <|amethyst> ohh 23:25:42 <|amethyst> NUM_VALID_SPECIES isn't in 0.12 23:25:47 |amethyst: autoexplore silently ignoring items is a behaviour change, not sure if it fits for a stable release 23:25:50 You should go fix that 23:26:12 <|amethyst> which commit? 23:26:26 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:35 43a7a664 23:26:39 Also fix it for every version ever 23:26:48 -!- repent has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:27:10 ??MD 23:27:10 hill orc[1/5]: Like a {mountain dwarf} but better and exists, try "!apt HO". Also, can worship {beogh}. And they're saprovorous, which is nice. 23:27:20 that's funny 23:27:21 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 23:27:30 ??mountain dwarf 23:27:30 hill orc[1/5]: Like a {mountain dwarf} but better and exists, try "!apt HO". Also, can worship {beogh}. And they're saprovorous, which is nice. 23:27:39 that's less funny 23:27:39 ... 23:28:47 <|amethyst> kilobyte: default is OPT_PROMPT_IGNORE isn't it? 23:29:15 <|amethyst> oh, no it's not 23:29:17 <|amethyst> hm 23:29:34 the whole option probably needs reworking 23:30:02 especially as it has nothing to do with auto sacrificing 23:30:38 <|amethyst> the same thing comes up with items, yes 23:30:51 <|amethyst> like chunks you can't pick up 23:31:25 <|amethyst> also cherry-picking 23:31:32 <|amethyst> %git fcbe96585 23:31:32 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-1109-gfcbe965: Don't let is_valid_species() accept placeholders. 10(3 days ago, 3 files, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fcbe9658595c 23:31:56 <|amethyst> since that's needed to make lightli not crash everything 23:32:05 <|amethyst> "look at me, I'm a yak!" 23:32:18 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:28 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:32:46 sorry 23:32:55 <|amethyst> :) it's fine 23:33:32 yak shaving :p 23:33:51 <|amethyst> that so should have been the commit message 23:33:54 <|amethyst> "Shave yaks." 23:36:58 todo: yaks as the 27th race 23:37:17 +4 HP, 0 unarmed combat, -99 almost everyting else <_< 23:37:26 *everything 23:37:33 it's -20 23:37:36 get it right 23:37:38 Int 1, Dex low, Str ludicrous, 23:37:40 <_< 23:38:37 -27 obv 23:38:56 -20 is basically -99 23:40:02 -!- ZRN_ has quit [] 23:40:06 Grunt: that would save bh some time 23:40:20 I tasked him with creating a new 27th race yesterday 23:40:28 Cherry-picked 2 commits into stone_soup-0.12 23:40:41 rip yak 23:40:57 might still be in 0.11! 23:41:01 Now I want a yak race 23:41:07 yaksprint 23:41:13 -!- cr4zyd has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:41:33 yaktaur 23:41:43 -!- Krag has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:41:46 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:42:13 Devs, mnoqy told me to convince you to remove cTele 23:42:17 giant :J 23:42:17 hydrataur 23:42:38 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: maybe we should do something with those tiles you made :) 23:42:43 haha 23:43:00 play a GiCK 23:43:09 Boring, overpowered, finnicky, and requires -CTele on every map you don't want to be completely trivialized in seconds 23:43:34 <|amethyst> Lightli: this has been discussed 23:43:37 just stop 23:43:40 sure 23:43:43 thanks 23:43:56 Lightli: did you not like the nerfs 23:44:09 I have no preference, blame mnoqy for me doing this 23:44:16 allow preloading of xbows, every 1st shot is free! 23:44:18 i think we can blame lightli instead 23:44:27 fine, that too 23:44:35 tell mnoqy to get over here and make his own suggestions 23:44:45 hi :☺) 23:44:52 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12.1-67-gcec63cd: Revert "Don't prompt about sacrifices with auto_sacrifice set to false" 10(14 minutes ago, 4 files, 6+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cec63cdbab6e 23:44:52 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12.1-68-ge7e1dc2: Changelog for 0.12.2 10(57 seconds ago, 1 file, 17+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e7e1dc213434 23:44:54 heh 23:45:11 <|amethyst> err 23:45:23 <|amethyst> I would have made PROMPT_IGNORE the default instead 23:45:31 so nemelex is unplayable in 0.12 again? 23:45:35 Lightli: though I bet mnoqy really meant you should find a way to induce crashes using cTele 23:45:43 MarvinPA: same as 0.12.1 23:45:47 thus convincing us to ban it 23:45:56 MarvinPA: How is Nemelex unplayable 23:45:59 ugh, those awful prompts again?! 23:46:08 yes he has been unplayable and there have been constant threads and people complaining about the prompts 23:46:13 oh the lag 23:46:27 oh 23:46:35 also the behaviour change just made the defaults do what they did in 0.11 anyway 23:46:45 So he's now even more unbearable than MuSu 23:46:56 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.1-66-gfb052bf 23:46:58 Lightli: eh? 23:47:15 i.e. Nemelex is less bearable than MuSu 23:47:29 Lightli: there's no change, the revert is merely unpicking something cherry-picked 30 minutes earlier, as it introduces a behaviour change 23:48:18 oh 23:48:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: 30 minutes? 23:48:40 it was cherry picked 10 days ago 23:48:58 41 actually 23:49:10 <|amethyst> CommitDate: Tue May 21 20:31:17 2013 +0100 23:49:38 maybe kilobyte tried to cherry pick it again 23:49:46 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:49:47 but failed because it was already cherrypicked 23:50:11 worked correctly during the tourney, at least 23:50:16 but hey, at least he didn't mess with it during the tourney 23:50:34 * elliott doesn't see how it's 30 minutes at all... 23:51:57 |amethyst: which fix? 23:52:06 er, disregard 23:53:42 hrm, indeed the greedy explore breakage has been pushed late in the tourney 23:54:25 should I revert the revert again? 23:54:53 <|amethyst> I think a lot of players prefer it the way it was late tournament, and pre-revert you had the option of doing it either way 23:55:18 -!- BorekL is now known as Mandevil 23:55:18 <|amethyst> (without completely disabling visiting sacrificeables) 23:55:26 <|amethyst> so I think so 23:55:36 no, only in trunk you can have it work like autopickup, in 0.12 it's either auto-sacrifice or silently leaving it 23:56:01 (and in trunk it's somehow bundled into auto_sacrifice rather than greedy_explore) 23:56:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:56:42 <|amethyst> kilobyte: that commit you reverted had prompt_ignore 23:57:35 <|amethyst> %git 34984127 23:57:35 07MarvinPA * 0.12.1-37-g3498412: Don't prompt about sacrifices with auto_sacrifice set to false 10(9 weeks ago, 4 files, 13+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=34984127293b 23:57:41 the setting is there but if I recall correctly it lacks some of underlying code 23:58:11 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:50 in trunk, should probably be made consistent with other forms of greedy_explore 23:59:40 <|amethyst> deos greedy explore still work when you have autopickup turned off? 23:59:49 not sure