00:00:03 or remove kobolds in spirit by making them better and -then- removing Ha 00:00:05 remove minotaurs 00:00:07 & labys 00:00:20 at the same time 00:00:20 so nobody complains about having one but not the other 00:00:20 elliott: Those are some interesting projections of yours 00:00:30 excellent foresight, mnoqy 00:00:35 well to be fair that's, like, 2-3 races just today! 00:00:37 elliott: it's clearly imposisible to have more than 52 00:00:42 how many days until .15!? 00:00:43 DracoOmega: well I believe today's uptick in race creation to be the start of a superexponential curve 00:00:49 tomorrow there will be 17 new races 00:01:01 actually I guess it would be a lot more than 1734 by 0.15 then 00:01:04 i may be bad at math 00:01:05 the problem is worse than I thought 00:01:14 however, they will all be elves 00:01:14 but isn't it possible to have 26^2 races 00:01:26 by ^2, do you mean *2 00:01:33 mikee_: what do you think this is, excel? 00:01:33 do i? 00:01:36 haha 00:01:39 well what is your idea 00:01:54 aa, ab, ac, etc. 00:01:56 is the idea to have two letters as the input to race selection?? 00:01:58 ok 00:02:00 i thought you meant uppercase 00:02:03 oh 00:02:11 no i don't even pay attention to case 00:02:33 <|amethyst> the real question is, what to do when we have an uncountable number of races? 00:02:34 elliott: *I* meant uppercase 00:02:48 <|amethyst> not sure we can assume the axiom of choice 00:02:51 remove race selection and start every game with a random race 00:03:02 |amethyst: most races will be gimmick-free, because there are only a countable number of gimmicks 00:03:05 purists rejoice 00:03:07 perhaps there could be no races at all 00:03:11 and you get random attributes 00:03:15 and traits 00:03:20 "So what kind of Desert Ghoul do you want to play as today?" 00:03:23 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:03:33 desert ghouls are v. hungry 00:04:01 how about Taiga Elf 00:04:02 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:04:12 mikee_: how about dessert ghouls? 00:04:26 bh, sounds delicious 00:04:28 |amethyst: clearly we can't choose from an uncountable infinity of races ... 00:04:32 |amethyst: ack. I had one oversight. I meant to give grotesks !restore abilities 00:04:36 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:04:42 because we only have a countable pool of names 00:04:54 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:05:51 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:06:10 bh: go back and do it 00:06:15 <|amethyst> SamB: no one said names have to be of finite length 00:06:18 SamB: on it 00:06:46 |amethyst: yes but nobody said Naturals had to be either 00:06:54 and there's still a bijection 00:07:38 wait, hmm 00:07:50 |amethyst: I meant names that users could type in 00:08:15 * SamB gives up since he's getting nowhere 00:08:36 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:00 SamB: please find the smallest uncountable set. 00:09:51 * SamB does not han bh a Pan 00:10:10 hm? 00:10:28 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:10:34 too finite 00:10:39 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:10:54 <|amethyst> bh: \omega_1 00:12:22 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:12:39 libunix.cc:395: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to ‘char*' 00:12:41 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:41 is that new? 00:13:27 -!- lion has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:13:46 <|amethyst> huh? 00:13:54 -!- Vbitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:14:01 <|amethyst> why would it give that error? 00:14:25 i686-apple-darwin11-llvm-g++-4.2 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Based on Apple Inc. build 5658) (LLVM build 2336.11.00) 00:14:28 who knows? 00:14:33 <|amethyst> ohh 00:14:38 I just pu shed the restore abilities patch if you want to rebuild 00:14:50 <|amethyst> why on earth is tigetstr defined to take a char* 00:15:26 |amethyst: instead of const char *? 00:15:28 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-1259-ge5a11bb: Give Grotesks !restore abilities to start. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e5a11bb0ab7f 00:15:41 Tra-Di-Shun! 00:16:04 aka ask Dickey 00:16:10 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1259-ge5a11bb (34) 00:16:19 though it's not like he can do anything about it on OS X 00:24:08 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:25:59 -!- us17 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:27:42 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:27:44 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:31:30 <|amethyst> err 00:31:43 <|amethyst> bh: I think one of your pushes reset the submodules? 00:31:51 <|amethyst> s/pushes/commits/ 00:32:19 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:35:06 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:40 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1260-g654acbe: Fix submodules. 10(80 seconds ago, 8 files, 8+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=654acbe06d1d 00:37:00 |amethyst: dammit. 00:37:12 thanks for catching that 00:37:25 -!- Silurio1 is now known as Silurio 00:38:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:39:00 ugh footsteps. I hate footsteps. 00:40:04 footsteps? 00:40:14 good news (for me anyway). I got my webtiles server up and got my henzell bot working :) 00:40:25 <|amethyst> show_travel_trails 00:40:25 auto-explore breadcrumb trail 00:40:26 thanks for the help from the folks in here! 00:40:34 <|amethyst> err, show_travel_trail 00:40:36 oh those are just reverse video here 00:40:48 <|amethyst> SamB: bh is playing tiles I imagine 00:40:56 |amethyst: nah, console 00:40:56 <|amethyst> s/playing/testing/ 00:40:57 yeah I assumed so 00:41:11 oh, he's just being metaphorical huh 00:41:12 The abilities screen is wrong. It doesn't show claws. 00:41:24 SamB: well, it shows as badly highlighted squares 00:41:41 ITYM reverse video 00:42:22 * SamB wonders what he should take for swelling due to blunt trauma to his foot ... 00:43:42 crate the Bringer of Life (L14 DjHe) (D:17) 00:43:43 SamB: that sounds uncomfortable 00:44:03 I knocked a piece of slate onto it 00:44:13 crate the Bringer of Life (L14 DjHe) (D:17) 00:45:42 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:46:09 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:50:51 Divine vigour as a djinni crashes the game by crate 00:52:07 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:53:36 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:53 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:37 -!- Unflexed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:54:56 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:58:31 -!- tatterdemalion has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:59:20 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:00:09 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:56 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1261-g76c65e7: Don't crash on divine vigour with 0 max MP (#7104). 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=76c65e7761ca 01:02:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19:44 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:20:14 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:21:05 -!- Jevouse has joined ##crawl-dev 01:23:19 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24:30 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:09 -!- AndChat|12144 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:25:10 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:25:44 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:27:25 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 01:27:46 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:29:57 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:35 -!- bh has left ##crawl-dev 01:31:51 <|amethyst> !tell bh self-petrify needs a description 01:31:52 |amethyst: OK, I'll let bh know. 01:32:41 -!- kickascii has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:32:48 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:37:05 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:39:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:39:45 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:39:48 * mumra wakes up 01:39:56 so what did i miss? ;) 01:40:44 everything 01:40:53 <|amethyst> we removed humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, kobolds, halflings, and felids 01:41:06 <|amethyst> and all but 3 runes 01:41:14 <|amethyst> mossy, elven, cryptic 01:41:44 nice 01:47:25 -!- reaver has quit [] 01:48:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:49:19 -!- eb has quit [] 01:50:07 Also there are only two branches now. 01:50:09 Dungeon and Zot. 01:51:27 i approve of this direction. i was worried for a second that trunk was going to have like 3 new races, 8 new backgrounds, and about 50 new branches when i woke up 01:51:29 a branchy rune of Zot 01:51:29 kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 01:51:43 mumra: nobody would merge things into trunk so carelessly 01:51:53 they'd check everything works in tiles and the HUD isn't broken by default!! 01:52:11 <|amethyst> elliott: hey, it works in local tiles :P 01:52:12 of course 01:52:17 these people are professionals 01:52:21 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1261-g76c65e7 (34) 01:52:33 the question is, should i merge Ar? 01:52:53 elliott: I checked regular tiles, I have no clue how to fix webtiles without learning their code 01:52:54 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:04 no don't merge argon 01:53:24 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54:01 also why do i still have to immediately turn traps skill off on every new game 01:54:23 kilobyte: what's the webtiles problem, i'm slightly familiar with it now 01:54:32 Because you don't have manual training enabled? 01:54:38 By default, I mean 01:54:43 <|amethyst> mumra: contam bar and temperature bar aren't handled 01:54:50 darkli (L11 DjHe) (Lair:3) 01:54:51 ah 01:54:52 <|amethyst> mumra: and essence still shows as HP 01:54:59 oooooooh burning everything in the auraaaaa 01:55:05 <|amethyst> !lm darkli crash -log 01:55:05 1. darkli, XL11 DjHe, T:19777 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/darkli/crash-darkli-20130530-065450.txt 01:55:28 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55:49 <|amethyst> oh, right 01:55:53 <|amethyst> fix isn't on cszo 01:56:59 hmm, it's in some ways non-trivial, since "HP" is baked into the html template for the client 01:59:04 Cherry-picked 1 commit into master 01:59:06 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1262-g897a16e (34) 01:59:06 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59:06 <|amethyst> mumra: that can be changed with javascript presumably 01:59:06 <|amethyst> but yeah, nontrivial 01:59:06 |amethyst: it's just where best to do that (obviously at some point when the race name is available) 01:59:06 buuuuuuuuurn 01:59:06 or maybe i could change the template server-side 01:59:11 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:59:46 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 01:59:46 -!- dupo has quit [] 01:59:59 hm 02:00:02 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1261-g76c65e7 02:00:26 -!- Flex has quit [] 02:02:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:03:08 huh 02:03:15 who made arrows autopickup for TmT 02:03:35 -!- nrook has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:03:43 Jevouse: bh 02:03:55 iirc 02:04:30 should've made everything else autopickup too then 02:04:36 staves, spiked clubs, etc. 02:04:46 No, I think that was SamB 02:04:47 <|amethyst> 52 slots 02:05:35 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:52 -!- nrook has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:16 <|amethyst> Jevouse: you can set that yourself if you want: autopickup_exceptions += <\{stick\} 02:08:10 right 02:09:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:10:40 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1262-g897a16e (34) 02:12:45 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:13:31 yeah, I thought that would be a bit excessive for a default, at least the way I was doing it ... 02:15:25 Grotesks seem interesting. 02:16:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:16:37 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:16:53 Bloax: that's intended 02:17:57 kilobyte: how does the contam bar work, is it always grey? 02:19:22 it colours according to how Contam would (i wrote the bar) 02:19:41 so it gets yellow then red etc. 02:20:45 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:54 elliott: where's the logic for that in code? 02:21:04 so i can copy it for webtiles 02:21:23 output.cc, grep for Contam I guess 02:22:15 oh right, it'd help if i pulled all this stuff locally wouldn't it 02:23:36 also it redraws it every turn even if it doesn't need to be, "oops" 02:23:39 probably that should be fixed 02:25:37 tsk tsk 02:26:01 it's kind of annoying not being able to test webtiles locally 02:26:11 i should really set up a unix VM for this 02:26:21 well it was a quick patch for lainiw!! 02:26:25 um 02:26:26 and then it got into the branch 02:26:29 and then it got into trunk 02:26:34 should throwing nets get burnt by lava orc fire aura 02:27:03 <|amethyst> nothing else burns throwing nets 02:27:28 well ... lava does 02:27:35 but then lava burns everything 02:27:41 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1263-g41cf647 (34) 02:27:47 so i don't want to follow that argument through to its logical conclusion 02:28:00 bug report lava orcs don't burn scrolls on the ground around them ??? ? ?? 02:29:31 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1263-g41cf647: Essence bar for Djinni (webtiles) 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 28+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=41cf647548f0 02:29:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:31:08 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1263-g41cf647 (34) 02:31:24 <|amethyst> hrm 02:32:02 <|amethyst> why does CSZO still say -1262 02:32:03 |amethyst: if i updated one of the static .js files does it need a server restart or something? 02:32:08 oh right 02:33:39 <|amethyst> err 02:34:35 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1264-g3951bad: Fix species HTML attribute (webtiles) 10(49 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3951bad2831f 02:34:53 <|amethyst> oh 02:35:30 <|amethyst> the executable isn't rebuilt 02:35:31 <|amethyst> which confuses things 02:36:46 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1264-g3951bad (34) 02:37:07 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:38:27 <|amethyst> mumra: I'm not seeing any difference 02:38:59 -!- Demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:39:41 |amethyst: i don't seem to be getting the new .js file 02:39:50 why would it still deliver the old one? 02:40:16 <|amethyst> what /gamedata dir is the script coming from? 02:40:28 <|amethyst> also, did you reload? 02:40:42 /game_data/static/player.js 02:40:46 |amethyst: yeah, cleared cached and refreshed 02:41:15 <|amethyst> mumra: it should be /gamedata//player.js 02:41:18 the css file isn't updating either 02:41:23 <|amethyst> mumra: the URL I mean 02:41:29 https://crawl.s-z.org/gamedata/f694a0402a1b6663768cd56726301c21f358217c/player.js 02:41:32 that's the current one 02:41:39 that i'm getting 02:41:44 the CSS file isn't updating either 02:42:09 <|amethyst> try going back to the lobby, reloading, and playing again 02:42:14 https://crawl.s-z.org/gamedata/f694a0402a1b6663768cd56726301c21f358217c/style.css 02:42:23 |amethyst: i'm spectating myself, i refreshed the whole page 02:42:27 <|amethyst> I get 5c1fa886dbeetc 02:42:33 which is the same as going to the lobby and back 02:42:34 hmm 02:42:42 <|amethyst> mumra: hm 02:42:59 <|amethyst> mumra: let me try spectating myself, I have an idea 02:43:57 haha 02:43:58 <|amethyst> still getting https://crawl.s-z.org/gamedata/5c1fa886dbe55fa9167ea4d5bb13b85f1eb376bd/player.js 02:43:58 oh 02:44:07 |amethyst: sorry, it's totally my fault 02:44:17 my save was still on the old version 02:44:24 <|amethyst> ah :) 02:44:35 <|amethyst> also, nothing is sending the contam level to the client is it? 02:44:37 i had a terminal open to play in, and was just spectating in webtiles 02:44:45 |amethyst: no, that's what i'm looking intpo 02:44:54 <|amethyst> it seems like your code would just make the contam bar 0 since that's what maxmp is 02:45:07 |amethyst: did the commit claim that it was fixing the contam bar? ;) 02:45:19 i wanted to make sure the essence bar worked first 02:45:28 <|amethyst> mumra: oh 02:46:09 <|amethyst> mumra: I guess it didn't claim to do so; I just hallucinated that :) 02:46:14 contam bar needs some extra server-side stuff (but i kind of want to avoid a slight information leak if i sent the numeric contam level down for all species...) 02:46:56 i certainly changed the *caption* to "Contam" but yeah it needs the data, and also custom handling for the colourisation 02:46:56 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:41 also, i need to figure out why the essence bar isn't working anyway :( 02:48:25 <|amethyst> mumra: what's stats_hp_line ? 02:48:36 <|amethyst> mumra: do you mean stats_hp_bar ? 02:48:57 -!- the_glow1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:01 <|amethyst> mumra: oh, stats_hpline 02:49:32 oh yeah 02:49:39 but also i think my if logic was screwed up 02:49:57 for some reason i forgot that != exists 02:50:23 <|amethyst> oh, haha 02:50:38 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:48 -!- korzok has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:52:14 <|amethyst> but, no, the only thing that requires a webtiles restart is changing the python 02:52:46 ok 02:52:50 <|amethyst> for this kind of thing you should be able to do everything in crawl itself or in the client code 02:52:56 i should be able to avoid python changes i think 02:53:07 the player message seems to be composed in crawl code 02:53:26 Grotesks don't involve any HUD weirdness do they? 02:53:42 oh god, lorcs have a THIRD bar 02:53:52 <|amethyst> yup... 02:54:12 <|amethyst> can clone one of the existing bars and make it display:none by default 02:54:18 race where the gimmick is that everything that's not a bar in the standard hud is replaced by some mechanic that requires a bar 02:54:21 all bars all the time 02:54:40 <|amethyst> So this lava orc walks into a bar 02:56:18 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1265-gd25905f: Fix logic for species HUD (webtiles) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d25905f62e08 02:56:20 |amethyst................... 02:56:20 bmfx (L26 KoAM) ASSERT(!aimed_at_feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 667 failed. (Vaults:5) 02:56:20 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:20 <|amethyst> !lm bmfx crash -log 02:56:20 8. bmfx, XL20 DgAr, T:49545 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/bmfx/crash-bmfx-20130503-144316.txt 02:56:57 <|amethyst> !lm bmfx crash -log 02:56:58 9. bmfx, XL26 KoAM, T:75241 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/bmfx/crash-bmfx-20130530-075512.txt 02:57:23 fr Shopping list lists total gold needed to clear it 02:57:32 has the lorc console hud been fixed yet 02:57:52 <|amethyst> %git :/console 02:57:53 07|amethyst * 0.13-a0-1249-g70f8c6c: Fix zot point and turn display for LO in console. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=70f8c6ce77d3 02:58:18 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:00:24 yay 03:00:52 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:23 Self-petrify ability lacks a description by prozacelf 03:01:23 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:45 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:03:41 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:43 <|amethyst> kilobyte: what do you think about putting MONS_DJINNI on 'R' ? 03:04:04 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:05:22 -!- korzok has quit [Client Quit] 03:07:50 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1265-gd25905f (34) 03:08:29 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:09:05 Well, I'm going to be away for the next week, so hopefully nothing of mine breaks too badly in the meanwhile :) 03:09:35 I see that last crash was fan of gales-related, but I've seen it used a lot without issue, so hopefully it's rare enough. I don't have time now to try to find and fix it first =/ 03:10:02 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: no problem, we'll look into it 03:10:22 <|amethyst> mumra: looks better, but for some reason it's still showing the weird negative rot thing 03:10:30 Well, it's one of the knockback tracers having an origin and target that are the same, it looks like 03:10:34 I am not immediately sure why 03:11:47 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1266-ge7ce82a: Webtiles HUD updates (Djinni/Lava Orcs) 10(6 minutes ago, 3 files, 51+ 14-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e7ce82a1faef 03:11:49 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1266-ge7ce82a (34) 03:12:17 In any case, goodnight! And good luck with all this assorted experimental stuff :P 03:12:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:12:34 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:14:26 |amethyst: oh right, yeah -- i didn't actually know what all the problems were, haven't read the scrollback otherwise i'd be sat here for 3 hours ;) 03:14:58 can djinni still get rot? 03:16:27 <|amethyst> mumra: yes, I believe 03:19:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:19:29 darkli (L16 DjHe) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1334: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Snake:5) 03:21:13 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:21:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:37 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:41 what i'm doing here is basically taking a load of dodgy hacks and special cases from crawl's code 03:21:45 and replicating them in javascript for webtiles 03:21:55 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1267-gd4e0b10: Fix max HP display for Djinni (webtiles) 10(61 seconds ago, 1 file, 10+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d4e0b10693c7 03:21:57 Endless lava description not good for Djinn by neil 03:25:14 <|amethyst> kilobyte: btw, right shift of a negative number is technically implementation dependent 03:26:14 <|amethyst> kilobyte: neither C nor C++ require it to be sign-extended, though in practice I don't know anyone who doesn't do so 03:26:22 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:26:37 <|amethyst> kilobyte: (re djinni player_res_cold) 03:28:08 <|amethyst> mumra: "palyer" 03:29:29 oh god 03:29:49 |amethyst: this is the problem with not having a way to test locally 03:30:37 <|amethyst> I can give you an account on CSZO as long as you don't try to use port 80 :) 03:31:00 you already gave me a CSZO account :) 03:31:05 <|amethyst> oh, well, then 03:31:12 that is a good point 03:31:20 but i'd still need to learn how to set up the server 03:31:39 <|amethyst> for testing webtiles there's not a lot to it 03:31:48 <|amethyst> all the dependencies are already installed 03:32:03 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1268-gbb30f80: Fix obvious typo 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bb30f8000194 03:32:25 also, i kind of like the editing tools i have locally 03:32:59 it'd be easier for me to get like a virtual pc running unix here 03:33:06 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:33:09 so i could make changes in my normal editor 03:33:13 -!- prozacelf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:33:41 i can *use* VI and whatever, but everything takes me 10x as long 03:34:00 <|amethyst> that means you need to use vi more :P 03:34:39 <|amethyst> but, yeah, a VM would be fine, you just need a recent python and python-tornado 03:34:58 <|amethyst> for extremely loose values of "recent" 03:38:36 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:39:36 -!- |amethys1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:39:50 -!- |amethys1 has quit [Client Quit] 03:39:59 -!- |amethys1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:16 -!- |amethyst has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:40:20 -!- |amethys1 is now known as |amethyst 03:42:04 yeah, python2.6 worked great for me with the webserver 03:47:17 hi guys 03:47:27 trunk is on fire... 03:47:39 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:47:39 what happen to the 1 branch exit project? 03:47:39 <|amethyst> there are some rocks in there too 03:47:55 <|amethyst> who was working on that? 03:48:12 3 or 4 devs I think :) 03:48:35 Xom, Xom, Xom and surprisingly enough - Xom. 03:49:17 I remember kilobyte and mumra had done some work 03:49:41 everyone did their own version of the patch 03:49:47 then nobody actually committed it 03:50:57 What's this "hover" thing? 03:51:08 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:51:31 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:51:45 mumra: so, are you happy with your version? 03:51:59 my version had problems 03:52:11 and since 3 other people were working on it i didn't get round to fixing them :) 03:52:14 <|amethyst> Bloax: it's what djinni do instead of walking through liquids 03:52:18 <|amethyst> s/djinni/djinn/ 03:52:29 right 03:52:44 Also I have no idea why they're called Djinni. 03:52:51 galehar: to be honest it's not a major or difficult patch, why? 03:54:06 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:54:55 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:55:54 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:56:16 mumra: the 3 branch exits has always annoyed me, so I was enthusiastic to see people work on it 03:56:22 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:56:28 mumra: are you asking why I didn't do my own patch? :) 03:57:09 mumra: do you remember who had the most promising patch? 03:58:16 -!- |amethyst has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:59:06 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 04:01:54 galehar: haha, i'm not sure i think grunt's patch worked? it was ages ago now 04:02:39 it's definitely something we should get in for 0.13 04:02:54 -!- Alexor has quit [] 04:03:02 after all we have a duty to remove a certain amount of content 04:03:07 yes, I'm just mentionning it so it doesn't get forgotten 04:03:13 since 3billion new things have been added so far :) 04:03:42 the new skald needs to be polished and added too 04:03:55 -!- Nivim has left ##crawl-dev 04:03:58 yep, lainiw has been working on it a bit since the tournament 04:04:36 !tell grunt did your 1 branch exit patch worked? How about committing it? 04:04:37 galehar: OK, I'll let grunt know. 04:05:21 should basically just merge newSk since it seems to be open season for testing crazy stuff right now ;) 04:05:43 also i was working on an Artificer revamp 04:06:57 elliott: your contamination level colouring seems all screwy. the bar is capped at 16, right? so why is there a special colour for contam > 20 ??? 04:07:03 -!- lion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:07:10 mumra: the colours are exactly the same as the contam status light, and also I did not set the cap 04:07:19 I don't see why the Contam status light and the bar above it should ever differ in colour 04:07:35 the only reason I duplicated the code to calculate the colour is that I needed to specify the colour for the changed-last-turn bit 04:08:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:08:36 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:13 ok, i see 04:09:24 (looks like kilobyte set the max contam to 16) 04:09:31 well that makes sense anyway 04:10:22 Well on the bright side, that means that you can't explode violently for infinity damage. 04:10:44 -!- DIonized has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 04:11:04 i don't think you are talking about the same thing we are 04:12:22 (i don't think Bloax is ever talking about the same thing as anyone else but still...) 04:12:47 I'm just the casual tile jester. 04:14:33 ^ case in point 04:14:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:15:02 maybe the problem is *we* just aren't talking about the same thing as *Bloax* 04:16:06 I don't really read the entire conversation most of the time. 04:17:23 that much is obvious, yes 04:17:50 if newsk gets merged, I know of at least one person who will die of happiness 04:17:53 -!- darktwinge has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:19:23 sounds like there are strong human rights reasons not to merge it 04:19:46 elliott: i possibly see a bug in the colour code; when contamination level is <=1 both the amount and the changed-last-turn are darkgrey 04:20:03 mumra: i think i decided any colour would look weird with darkgrey giving the limited palette 04:20:25 and also given that it's darkgrey contam you probably don't care :P 04:20:25 *given 04:20:25 true 04:20:25 maybe dark blue could work, dunno 04:20:48 but it means e.h. it'll look like you have 2 contam when you only have 1 04:21:01 oh hm I see 04:21:11 er, will it? 04:21:16 the lost parts show as - don't they 04:21:18 yes, if you've just decreased from 2 to 1 04:21:21 is this a tiles-specific issue? 04:21:24 ohh 04:21:26 right 04:21:35 on tiles i can use a different shade of grey 04:21:36 in tiles, set the "lost" colour to the background I guess 04:21:36 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:21:39 or that 04:28:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:07 Djinni level up notes record separate HP/MP by qoala 04:33:45 crossing fingers ... 04:35:56 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:37:37 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:37:52 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 04:40:48 mumra: doesn't compile 04:40:49 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:40:52 i know 04:42:53 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 04:43:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:43:20 edlothiol: maybe i should have waited for you to do these changes ;) 04:43:45 you might want to tidy things up slightly, i didn't really know where to do the species initialisation so it's in a tenuous place 04:44:06 wow, those stylesheets look like we could use a css preprocessor ;) 04:44:19 yeah, heh 04:44:32 i should maybe have just created a separate contam bar instead of reusing MP 04:44:46 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1272-g3e9bf07 (34) 04:45:05 -!- inpho has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:46:40 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1269-ga43ddea: Differentiate gained/lost contam on local tiles 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a43ddea76592 04:46:40 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1270-ga39a4d9: Send contam/temperature to webtiles client for Djinn/Lava Orc 10(14 minutes ago, 2 files, 8+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a39a4d95c56a 04:46:40 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1271-gf5a950f: Display contam for Djinni in webtiles 10(13 minutes ago, 2 files, 66+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f5a950ff126b 04:46:40 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1272-g3e9bf07: Use temperature() to do int conversion 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3e9bf072036d 04:46:51 hmm... Essence: 14/14 (NaN) 04:50:22 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:50:55 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:52:28 mumra: real_mp_max isn't sent to the client... but I'd prefer the hp_max adjustment for djinni to be done by crawl, anyway 04:53:02 edlothiol: i noticed, but is mp_max ok here? 04:53:20 anyway i'll finish up the bits i'm halfway through and you can clean up any hacks you want to afterwards ;) 04:53:33 darkli (L20 DjHe) ASSERT(mons_habitat(this) == HT_WATER) in 'mon-ench.cc' at line 1169 failed. (Vaults:5) 04:53:49 probably 04:54:07 darkli (L20 DjHe) (Vaults:5) 04:55:40 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:55:48 darkli (L20 DjHe) (Vaults:5) 04:56:43 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:48 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-1273-g024becf: Fix djinni contam bar colors. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=024becf8f721 04:56:52 mumra: I pushed a fix replacing "you" by "player" in update_bar_contam, although I realize you probably already fixed it yourself and now might get conflicts, sorry 04:56:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:59:27 oh thanks, missed that 04:59:40 -!- Jevouse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:00:23 edlothiol: ok i just pushed with a separate contam bar and the right colours for the heat bar 05:00:53 so it should be basically playable but if you can reduce the amount of hacks that would be good :) 05:00:54 darkli (L20 DjHe) (Vaults:5) 05:01:15 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1274-g4ba7260 (34) 05:01:18 colours might also need tweaking 05:01:47 since there isn't quite parity with console due to console relying on there being a different character for background vs. filled parts of the bar 05:07:38 so e.g. console has darkgrey/darkgrey for low contam 05:07:38 this causes a problem in local tiles too 05:07:38 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:07:38 edlothiol: yeah, the hp_max is still broken too, are you going to look at that? 05:07:38 ok 05:07:38 -!- Nicksvaffel is now known as Isvaffel 05:07:38 just pushed a fix for the contam bar 05:07:38 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:18:53 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1274-g4ba7260: Create a separate contam bar in HTML, implement heat, simplify (webtiles) 10(13 minutes ago, 3 files, 63+ 20-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ba7260dfc15 05:18:53 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1275-gcac1a80: Properly set contam level display (webtiles) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cac1a80dd47b 05:18:58 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:58 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:18:58 edlothiol: i was looking for that too, i don't think so 05:18:58 you make a compelling case for forced save transfers 05:18:58 elliott: i approve of people abusing bugs if it adds weight to us pushing through forced save transfers 05:18:58 edlothiol: set all skills to 10, learn orb of destruction 05:18:58 i hate forced save transfers and even i feel a twang in my soul 05:18:58 casting it will give you a nice contam level 05:18:58 elliott: automatic migrations are a completely natural thing for online services to do; i guarantee after about a week you won't care anymore 05:18:58 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:20:24 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 05:20:24 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:20:24 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 05:20:41 that's why we have alt accounts to fill up with games whenever a fun exploit is found 05:20:41 aaaaanyway 05:21:35 i think if someone starts a game balanced in a certain state then they should be allowed to play it to its completion in that state, and not being allowed to do so makes offline play more appealing 05:21:41 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:54 elliott: also we have a situation right now where if someone uses webtiles to spectate a console player's game, they will probably be seeing the broken version 05:21:57 like if someone started a stalker and transferred their save a while back, they would get fd & evap replaced by two spells saying they're gone and doing nothing else 05:22:09 i don't think it is very fair to do that kind of thing non-optionally 05:23:43 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:23:46 i would say it's very fair 05:23:55 we just saved that person from fd & evap 05:24:09 rather than forcing them to carry on playing a broken background 05:24:24 surely people play trunk to appreciate the improvements? 05:25:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25:34 -!- Arivia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:25:34 -!- Arivia_ is now known as Arivia 05:25:37 elliott: people are allowed to play games to their completion in the balance state they started them in, it's called "stable" 05:26:27 edlothiol: you can want to test out new stuff and still not necessarily want the games in which they do that to change in a big way underneath them while they're playing it, many people play trunk-only after all 05:26:37 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:03 first_world_problems 05:27:32 (you could also avoid forced save transfers simply by not saving and keeping the connection alive, so if someone really wants to keep playing a version there's no stopping them, if you're worried about exploits... transfer on reload isn't an effective solution to that (as opposed to e.g. invalidating specific cheating games for tourney scoring manually)) 05:27:39 basically it's extremely rare that a change actually raises this kind of problem 05:27:58 elliott: if we really want to force someone to save and reload, we can 05:27:59 and maybe we could do something like set a milestone before major removals, so there is a changepoint that players can stay at 05:28:48 but for 99.something% of commits there is no argument as to why you'd want to not update 05:28:54 one kill -1 does it 05:29:23 edlothiol: sure. so the tools to prevent abuse in tournaments are already in place, and save transfers don't solve it 05:30:28 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:36:17 elliott: also, crash bugs can't be abused without reloading 05:36:17 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:36:17 true. but you need quite specific circumstances to *heavily* abuse a crash bug 05:36:17 hmm, console and webtiles don't quite display the gained/lost readouts in the same way 05:36:17 the best you can hope for at a pinch is a good acquirement 05:36:17 edlothiol: while you're looking at the maxmp thing, there is a very small information leak: on console you only know if your contam is above 16, you don't know how much it is. on webtiles you could inspect the player object to find out the exact value. i don't know if this really matters. 05:36:17 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:17 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:38:15 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-1276-g1f3dc0b: Send correct max hp for Djinni to the webtiles client. 10(17 minutes ago, 2 files, 12+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1f3dc0b68c54 05:38:15 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-1277-g18b0d3e: Shorten "Essence" to "EP" on Webtiles if the player is rotted. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=18b0d3e85cbd 05:38:16 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:16 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:38:17 edlothiol: i just fixed the heat bar btw, i messed up the ids 05:38:17 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 05:39:07 edlothiol: also i think the place i added the hud changes is actually good, for instance if you change race using wizmode then it should correctly alter the hud 05:39:57 mumra: yes, it certainly needs to check for race changes on every update 05:40:06 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1278-g1b2e454 (34) 05:40:06 mumra: i didn't show it because i didn't think it meant anything to the player (numbers need to justify themselves to be dispalyed IMO) and because it is visually noisy 05:40:27 yeah 05:40:34 why not just send the contam # of bars + colour down? 05:40:52 although if you are heavily contammed it might be worth knowing how much you need to lose 05:41:00 although you're probably dead at that point anyway 05:41:55 elliott: that would require further duplication of logic, or significantly rewriting how MP and HP are done normally 05:42:38 well, there's already a lot of duplication 05:42:45 and HUD code is in need of a rewrite anyway :P 05:42:48 pick your poison!! 05:43:19 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1278-g1b2e454: Correct heat bar Ids (webtiles) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1b2e45440264 05:44:12 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 05:45:08 there's also already a bit of duplication (in webtiles) with the color of the contam status light and the contam bar 05:45:36 yeah 05:45:45 some amount of duplication is unavoidable 05:46:00 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:46:36 ok now 05:46:41 wth is wrong with my webtiles game? 05:47:14 elliott: don't say "webtiles" thanks ;) 05:47:24 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:47:35 maybe if i say it again it'll unstick 05:47:36 webtiles 05:48:03 edlothiol: i noticed some slightly weird things a couple of times recently in webtiles, and i'm seeing something right now. basically the entire display isn't updating, even if i save and reload my game 05:48:18 on console everything is fine 05:50:37 i'm wondering if this could have anything to do with recent changes like my clouds stuff, and there might have been some stuff Grunt touched on when he was fixing abyss deaths 05:50:37 i hear berserk looks weird or something 05:50:37 as a djinn or was it a lo 05:50:37 that might just be zermako though 05:50:37 although i think someone else said the same 05:50:37 edlothiol: ok one problem seems to be that if i walk into the lava as a lava orc, everything stops updating 05:50:55 mumra: I'm getting syntax errors in the messages sent to you 05:51:00 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 05:51:11 yeah i'm seeing "Unexpected token ILLEGAL" 05:56:42 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-1279-g20e5c5a: Plug a small Webtiles information leak (mumra). 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=20e5c5a3d582 05:56:44 Shouldn't Djinn have pretty high transmutations? 05:56:44 mumra: ooh, it's old code from lava orcs 05:56:55 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 05:57:47 which messed up the json 05:58:49 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:13 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 05:59:18 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1280-g0263170 (34) 05:59:24 mumra: try this version 05:59:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:01:35 edlothiol: cool, that works 06:01:47 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-1280-g0263170: Fix lava orc heat aura in Webtiles. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0263170801d3 06:02:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:02:57 I don't really like the forest floor tiles 06:04:04 that heat aura should probably be more visible 06:04:11 that's what I was just writing 06:04:22 although it also shouldn't be annoying 06:04:32 edlothiol: i think the forest tiles can mostly be considered temporary 06:04:55 that floor does look really scrappy, yeah 06:05:03 the forest floor tiles are also used elsewhere though 06:05:10 at least I think so 06:05:23 in some forest vault (not the enchanted forest) 06:06:27 It's not like mixing up dark forest grassiness would be impossible. 06:11:03 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:17:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:17:28 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:18:45 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:31 -!- phosphorescence has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:14 -!- phosphorescence has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:30:52 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 06:31:00 mumra: didn't you say you fixed the temperature bar? the ids in the stylesheet are still wrong 06:31:22 or did you mean something else 06:32:37 edlothiol: i fixed one instance but not the other 06:32:43 so temp bar is displaying for all races right now :( 06:32:50 mumra: I'll push the fix then 06:32:58 maybe i should've stuck with "temp" rather than "heat" 06:33:18 but heat is better terminology 06:33:40 temp sounds ... intransient 06:33:46 uh, i mean transient 06:34:12 yeah, I also like heat better 06:34:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:35:07 fr all races have temperature 06:35:17 just all it does is they feel too hot or too cold 06:40:46 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:42:28 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-1281-g2db0c1e: Fix the temperature bar showing up for all races in Webtiles. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 12-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2db0c1e21fa5 06:42:30 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:30 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:42:30 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 06:44:08 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:55:44 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:57:13 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:43 Ozo's armour description not yet updated by Grandiloquent Gentleman 06:57:45 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:56 ETA to Djinn nerf? 06:59:23 Are they OP? 06:59:40 Bloax: DjHe is, at the very least. 06:59:52 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:09 *He :V 07:00:56 I mean BY He standards 07:01:33 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 07:01:46 -!- ark__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:48 Clouds are remembered on next level by Grandiloquent Gentleman 07:02:54 -!- syllogism- has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:11 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:05:33 -!- syllogism has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:05:51 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:08 -!- ketsa has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Pale Moon 20.1-x64/20130520163905]] 07:08:14 -!- syllogism has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:33 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:09:53 -!- SkaryMonk1 is now known as SkaryMonk 07:10:52 -!- syllogism has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:11 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:14 -!- syllogism has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:31 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:38 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:20:13 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1282-gfab4a91: A way for stress tests to disable semi-permanent afflictions. 10(38 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fab4a91b2ef1 07:20:21 edlothiol: do you have any idea what i might have missed with clouds -- env.tile_bk_cloud isn't always getting reset between levels, at least any squares that don't have a feature aren't getting the clouds reset 07:20:39 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:21:30 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:21:46 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:25:57 mumra: hm, not really... though maybe add a else tile_bk_cloud=0 to the end of tile_draw_map_cell 07:26:05 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:19 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:26:50 edlothiol: ah, that could be it 07:27:38 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:29:21 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 07:36:22 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:37:22 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:37:27 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 07:40:13 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:47:20 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:47:20 whoa 07:47:20 new race in trunk?? 07:47:20 ??grotesk 07:47:20 grotesk[1/1]: Trunk: A unarmed combat species with self-petrification ability. Self-pertification costs exhaustion and stat drain. They are good with earth magic, and bad with air. They cannot be forcibly petrified. 07:47:20 !apt grotesk 07:47:21 Could not understand "grotesk" 07:47:21 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:49:54 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:54 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 07:49:54 I think 07:50:45 so rC+(+) -> rC(none), rC+++ -> rC+ 07:50:45 does "you have no legs" do anything aside from disabling boots 07:50:45 when over water/lava, you automatically "hover" 07:50:45 oh 07:50:45 so it's like flying, except not 07:50:45 which slows you, due to required concentration 07:50:45 -!- santiago has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:50:45 unless you have a real source of flight 07:50:45 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:45 how much essence do they have compared to like 07:50:45 normal HP totals 07:50:45 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 07:50:47 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:52 I have no idea how essence works 07:50:53 EP = HP+MP using the normal calculations 07:51:05 yeah but the apt list gives them N/A for HP/MP apts 07:51:37 the code calculates HP at -1 apt and MP at 0 apt, then adds them (so fighting and spc/invo/evo both help) 07:51:44 thanks 07:51:47 although MP costs double it seems 07:51:50 yeah 07:52:03 they have the demon lord glyph 07:52:04 this frightens me 07:52:59 does torment harm them? 07:53:14 I just realized I've been saying all this in the wrong channel 07:53:15 oh well 07:53:25 I'm fairly certain they have no torment resistance besides rN+++. 07:54:24 Their essence is treated as one big HP pool for most purposes 07:54:32 I'm guessing anything that would normally restore HP or MP restores essence instead 07:54:38 like makhleb/vehumet/TSO, potions, etc. 07:58:05 I believe so 07:58:05 now I just have to get better at not spellcasting to death 08:01:02 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:41 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:15 seems to me that pillar dancing everything at X:1 sucks, due to hp regeneration being much slower than mp 08:10:18 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:37 it's proportional though so overtakes mp nearly immediately after 08:11:18 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1283-gdb90ed1: Reset cloud tile layout when no cloud 10(34 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=db90ed199e48 08:11:45 really chei, _half an hour_? 08:12:04 i guess he's struggling under the weight of all this trunk craziness 08:12:26 * kilobyte feels like bugging |amethyst again about push notifications. 08:12:44 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:12:54 mumra: perhaps you committed it a while before pushing? 08:12:57 it uses the commit time 08:13:23 elliott: i pushed it almost immediately after committing, i can also remember that it was ages ago when i pushed it ... 08:13:50 like i've closed about 10 mantis tickets since then 08:14:00 mumra: perhaps you are experiencing time dilation of some sort 08:14:05 or are just really quick at using mantis 08:14:18 after all, chei is the expert on such distortions 08:14:25 elliott: or Chei lives up to its name 08:14:25 elliott: that is always possible of course, we live in strange times 08:15:26 kilobyte: btw webtiles is all sorted now 08:16:23 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1284-g77c6466: Gourmand is useless for the djinn. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=77c64665cea4 08:17:08 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:19:43 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:21:29 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1284-g77c6466 (34) 08:23:42 someone push something plz 08:23:52 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 08:24:16 preferably in separate pushes so I can bug you again for testing :p 08:25:14 hmm 08:26:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:28:55 oh man oh boy 08:29:02 let's see how wucad mu is on a djinn 08:29:08 -!- Zermako has quit [] 08:29:09 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:10 kilobyte: pushed, let me know when you need another 08:31:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1285-gfa9f7a0: An Lua util for random weighting by branch 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fa9f7a0dc33d 08:31:38 didn't match, could use another try 08:31:52 * kilobyte sucks at writing procmail lines that work in the first go. 08:33:28 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:33:42 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:07 no dice? 08:36:36 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1286-gc7ce549: Add a couple of colour variants for cave wall/floor tiles 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 13+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c7ce54978e83 08:37:38 still no 08:38:05 Gitorious doesn't provide any clear header, so I use textual match over multiple fields 08:40:14 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:40:37 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:38 there's another 08:41:36 Subject: [Gitorious] Activity: mumra pushed 1 commits to masterma... 08:41:37 * ^Subject: \[Gitorious\] - Activity: 08:41:41 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1287-g03e152a: Add some tileset variations for D caves 10(86 seconds ago, 2 files, 35+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03e152aa059d 08:41:48 even reduced this far, still no match 08:41:49 hrm 08:41:58 -!- santiago has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:43 i have one more ready to go 08:44:20 no need, without matching From: I can test this on mails from myself 08:44:28 (obviously, feel free to push stuff normally :p) 08:46:45 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1288-g39610e7: Update Ozo's Armour description (#7108) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=39610e79529e 08:47:48 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:49:58 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:16 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:14 compare the two Subject lines I listed above 08:51:23 * kilobyte operates in full retard mode. 08:52:00 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 08:54:39 haha 08:59:21 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:01:55 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1289-g3bd72c4: Add some more brown variations to cave tiles 10(19 minutes ago, 2 files, 11+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3bd72c40c915 09:07:51 in my defense, Sourceforge did have a hyphen there :p 09:08:37 |amethyst: do you have a publicly listening MTA on the box Chei gets its git feed from? 09:08:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:09:40 |amethyst: if not, any other kind of nodging it would still work 09:10:15 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:39 doesn't matter how Ruby Goldergesque the process is, all that counts is Chei getting triggered 09:11:05 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I'm not sure how the MTA there is configured 09:11:14 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:08 <|amethyst> kilobyte: but all s-z.org mail comes to one mailbox 09:12:58 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:21 !lg * won crace=grotesk 09:13:21 No games for * (won crace=grotesk). 09:13:32 same here, I did create a separate account so gitorious won't suppress my pushes, but it's an alias on my side 09:13:33 !lg * crace=grotesk max=xl 09:13:34 191. cptwinky the Brawler (L19 GrMo), worshipper of Cheibriados, blasted by Lamia (poison arrow) on Snake:2 on 2013-05-30 09:13:52, with 206254 points after 40767 turns and 2:27:43. 09:13:42 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:46 !lg * won crace=djinni 09:13:47 1. darkli the Faith Healer (L27 DjHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-05-30 11:06:33, with 1296797 points after 129286 turns and 4:19:42. 09:13:55 !lg * won crace=lava_orc 09:13:55 3. hyperbolic the Conqueror (L25 LOCK), worshipper of Xom, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-04-20 17:28:22, with 1539492 points after 76946 turns and 4:33:12. 09:14:03 2011 09:14:54 |amethyst: this mail ends up at my primary account, then: 09:14:58 :0: 09:14:58 * ^To: kilobyte-gitorious@angband.pl 09:14:58 * ^From: Gitorious 09:14:58 * ^Subject: \[Gitorious\] Activity: 09:14:58 |$HOME/gitorious-notify 09:15:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:15:37 !lg * crace=lava_orc 09:15:38 1158. KINGBONG the Insei (L1 LOMo), slain by a giant gecko on D:1 on 2013-05-30 13:57:36, with 11 points after 144 turns and 0:01:31. 09:15:45 !lg * crace=djinn 09:15:45 No games for * (crace=djinn). 09:15:47 <|amethyst> this would be much easier if I ever got around to putting Chei on cszo 09:15:49 !lg * crace=djinni 09:15:49 409. daetrin the Firebug (L1 DjFE), slain by a goblin on D:1 on 2013-05-30 14:15:24, with 38 points after 91 turns and 0:01:07. 09:17:02 for example, my old svn->git gateway: http://sprunge.us/fNZV 09:17:50 so you'd send some notification to Chei 09:17:58 ssh, wget, anything 09:18:23 or I can, of course 09:18:46 <|amethyst> does gitorious complain if you do frequent polling 09:18:55 <|amethyst> because it's going to have to poll one way or the other 09:19:13 <|amethyst> unless there's some option I'm missing in Bot::BasicBot 09:19:19 no idea, but this way you don't need to do so on a cronjob, just when there's actually something to pull 09:19:31 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I mean, chei itself has to poll 09:19:33 so there's fewer pulls overall 09:19:57 <|amethyst> but that's tru 09:19:58 <|amethyst> e 09:20:13 |amethyst: can't it get notifications somehow? Like, an URL getting wgetted, etc 09:20:35 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it would have to poll those notifications 09:20:42 <|amethyst> I don't know enough POE to make it asynchronous 09:20:51 ie, POE? 09:20:52 <|amethyst> I guess I could put it on said() and have someone /msg chei 09:20:57 s/ie, // 09:21:32 <|amethyst> Bot::BasicBot uses POE, which is a multitasking/networking framework for Perl 09:22:35 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:22:53 <|amethyst> Bot::BasicBot itself has events for said(), emoted() and other IRC things; and tick() 09:23:16 <|amethyst> so unless the announcement comes over IRC, it's tick() that would have to handle it 09:23:22 <|amethyst> and tick() is what's currently handling it 09:23:47 <|amethyst> (but tick() right now is every 5 minutes) 09:24:05 or for mumra's recent commit apparently half an hour 09:24:14 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:24:23 I got some announcements after way longer than 5 minutes too 09:24:27 you could have an extrenal program (cron job) poll and send stuff down a fifo or AF_LOCAL socket, and have a POE event trigger on activity on said FIFO/socket 09:24:42 that should have been: (cron job?) 09:24:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:05 geekosaur: the whole idea is to not have any cron jobs, as they do polling 09:26:19 hm, ok, so this is related to the email thing. have procmail deliver to a program which writes to that pipe/socket, then 09:26:25 <|amethyst> but e.g. procmail could do what geekosaur said 09:26:32 <|amethyst> I don't know POE though 09:26:49 you don't have a MTA on that box, you said 09:26:52 bh: a frequent comment i've seen is that it's not really obvious what self-petrification for 09:27:00 it's been a few years since I worked with POE specifically, but that's pretty basic event stuff that POE can handle fairly well 09:27:03 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I don't know how to configure it anyway 09:27:12 s/is for 09:27:14 mumra: yeah, |amethyst suggested adding explanatory text 09:27:19 i still don't know what self-petrification is for 09:27:20 <|amethyst> kilobyte: and am wary of doing so because hundres of users 09:27:28 can do wget http://cheibriados.host/notify_me 09:27:37 elliott: you get massive DR 09:28:14 (going to forage, brb) 09:29:43 <|amethyst> when we used CIA, who actually ran crawl-ref-cia ? 09:29:56 <|amethyst> was it on gitorious, on develz.org, ...? 09:30:34 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:37 !lg * dj won 09:30:37 No keyword 'dj' 09:30:38 bh: but what are the uses - the main one i can think of is waiting for a teleport to kick in 09:30:58 mumra: tanking against a big monster 09:31:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 09:31:32 <|amethyst> so how does it work? you're not slowed during petrifying, but you are still paralysed during petrified? 09:31:32 bh: so you can actually move while petrified? 09:31:32 letting summons do their thing 09:31:42 mumra: you get the bonus while petrifying 09:31:46 |amethyst: correct 09:32:02 <|amethyst> why would I want to be petrified next to a big guy? 09:32:11 <|amethyst> I mean, if I'm sure I'm going to kill him before then 09:32:33 -!- reaver has quit [] 09:33:02 |amethyst: you hope you can kill him before you're stoned 09:34:33 using it to get teleports to go off seems like the main use to me as well (and not a very interesting use) 09:35:06 looks like POE::Wheel::SocketFactory knows how to use AF_UNIX (aka POSIX AF_LOCAL), and that's probably easier to deal with than the peculiarities of FIFOs anyway 09:35:32 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:44 maybe not call it petrification (or just "partial petrification" or something) and have it not fully turn you to stone, so you just get slowed for a while with DR? 09:36:20 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:36:35 since normally petrification isn't something you want, it seems counterintuitive to say this is a special ability 09:38:02 sure people would probably wtf at an ability called 'poison self' 09:38:17 well ... have you read that tavern thread 09:38:54 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:39:34 i actually like the last iteration of the idea, basically a spell that poisons you gives you a stat boost 09:39:36 mumra: the one I started in GDD or another? 09:39:50 bh: no, the poison thread 09:40:01 haven't seen it 09:40:15 i mean there's a spell suggestion called 'poison self' basically ;) 09:40:48 <|amethyst> "From a high altitude view, it doesn't distingush enough from Deep Dwarf." 09:40:52 <|amethyst> I don't understand this 09:41:13 where's that from? 09:41:16 |amethyst: they have high earth! 09:41:18 it's xuaxua 09:41:20 mumra: xuaxua tavern 09:41:27 oh right, it's xuaxua 09:41:28 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:41:31 well you don't have to understand it 09:41:38 xuaxua is high variance. 09:41:49 and high altitude apparently 09:41:58 <|amethyst> s/altitude / 09:42:12 doesn't high variance imply xuaxua sometimes posts things which aren't complete nonsense 09:42:25 elliott: yep 09:42:38 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:46 well, the individual words are all real words, so from a very close-up view it could appear to make sense 09:42:46 His point is probably that they're both high earth damage shavers 09:43:26 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:44:04 would everyone hate a passive damage reduction ability that sometimes causes stat loss? 09:45:11 passive damage reduction sounds bad since as was just pointed out we already have a race with passive damage reduction (and it's ridiculously strong and also pretty boring) 09:46:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:47:25 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 09:49:32 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:50:26 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:06 -!- sym` has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:51:09 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 09:51:18 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:52:37 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:00 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 09:55:17 !tell bh intrinsic boulder form? 09:55:19 mumra: OK, I'll let bh know. 09:55:25 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:31 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:19 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:23 |amethyst: a lame but working idea: tick() -> stat() every second 09:58:44 |amethyst: with whatever method of notifications you prefer touching a file 10:00:45 so when my (or your's) box with a MTA gets the mail, it wgets an URL -or- sends an UDP packet -or- sends a smoke signal, having something on Chei's box create that file, then Chei notices it, does a pull, then does the announcement 10:02:40 <|amethyst> that's something like what I was thinking 10:03:26 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:27 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:07:01 -!- Krag has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:07 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:07 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:08:07 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 10:08:21 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:08:24 hmf. I'd just use the SocketFactory and bypass the file poll entirely 10:08:25 <|amethyst> let's see 10:09:05 <|amethyst> geekosaur: like I said, I don't know POE 10:09:19 <|amethyst> and the bot doesn't directly use POE currently 10:09:46 <|amethyst> hm 10:09:55 human (15@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 3-68 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 233 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:09:55 <|amethyst> %??human 10:10:16 <|amethyst> oops 10:10:48 tick 10:10:48 tick 10:10:48 tick 10:10:49 tick 10:10:49 tick 10:10:52 tick 10:10:52 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:52 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:10:52 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 10:11:02 tick 10:11:02 tick 10:11:02 tick 10:11:04 tick 10:11:04 tick 10:11:05 tick 10:15:20 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:15:21 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 10:16:09 tick 0 10:16:09 tick 0 10:16:09 tick 0 10:16:11 tick 0 10:16:11 tick 0 10:16:13 tick 0 10:16:17 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 10:18:53 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:53 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:18:54 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 10:19:17 tick 6 10:19:41 tick 4 10:19:52 <|amethyst> okay, much better 10:21:43 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:22:51 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:51 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:22:51 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 10:24:40 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:25:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:27:19 <|amethyst> kilobyte: okay, if you can hit http://s-z.org/cgi-bin/cheipoke when you get one of those mails 10:27:24 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I'd rather do something like that, yes, but no time to learn POE just now 10:29:09 <|amethyst> geekosaur: source is at http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=cheibriados.git;a=summary if you'd like to try 10:29:10 |amethyst: what are you working on now? 10:29:34 I just got pulled onto a customer ticket but I can try to poke at it later. 10:29:48 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1290-g39aa781: Mark corpses as useless for non-eating races. 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 11+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=39aa781ac8a7 10:29:50 <|amethyst> Grunt: "push" notifications for chei 10:29:56 Aha. :) 10:29:56 * Grunt pushes Chei <_< 10:29:57 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:57 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 10:29:57 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:58 <|amethyst> (it's really just more frequent polling ATM) 10:30:50 <|amethyst> kilobyte: how delayed was that one? 10:30:52 25 seconds 10:31:12 <|amethyst> nice 10:31:32 -!- jason5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:31:54 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:12 push finished 17:29:32, SMTP connection 17:29:41, spamassassin finished :44, procmail completed :45, Chei announced :57 10:32:28 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:32:52 <|amethyst> chei's doing 5-second polling, and the git fetch took 3 seconds 10:34:03 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:34:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:07 whitelisted it, which should shave off 3 seconds 10:35:33 <|amethyst> well, I'd better get to work 10:35:39 <|amethyst> I'll probably be back shortly 10:38:07 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:34 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1291-gb1033f5: Corpses are not useless if you can use their chunks. 10(74 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b1033f5dad1d 10:39:36 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:11 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:50:34 <|amethyst> What to do about the links? 10:50:52 <|amethyst> I guess I can have chei use its own gitweb 10:53:06 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:56:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:02:54 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:54 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 11:02:55 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 11:03:08 is taking it easy, I see. 11:03:20 so, http://crawl.lantea.net:8080/#lobby 11:03:24 whos hosting that? 11:03:48 Good question. 11:03:56 How did you find it? 11:04:05 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8161 11:04:28 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:04:38 <|amethyst> TZer0 11:06:09 <|amethyst> does anyone have a commit to push? 11:06:34 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:43 I have something I might push. 11:06:53 Just need to clean it up a bit first. 11:07:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:28 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 11:08:21 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1292-g7fc62a5: Drop Cigotuvi's from the Vitriol card. 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7fc62a56f152 11:08:33 19 seconds 11:08:51 <|amethyst> and the link should work immediately 11:09:25 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:26 lordfrikk (L20 SEEE) ASSERT(in_bounds(src_pos) || src_pos.origin()) in 'mon-behv.cc' at line 1022 failed. (Vaults:2) 11:15:35 o_o 11:15:39 !lm lordfrikk crash -log 11:15:40 1. lordfrikk, XL5 DsWz, T:3517 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/lordfrikk/crash-lordfrikk-20110705-202711.txt 11:15:54 0.9 11:15:56 ... 11:16:00 <|amethyst> that's not the right one 11:16:06 <|amethyst> !lm lordfrikk crash -log 11:16:06 Yeah, I see that. 11:16:06 1. lordfrikk, XL5 DsWz, T:3517 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/lordfrikk/crash-lordfrikk-20110705-202711.txt 11:16:23 <|amethyst> http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/lordfrikk/crash-lordfrikk-20130530-161519.txt 11:16:23 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/lordfrikk/crash-lordfrikk-20130530-161519.txt 11:16:36 <|amethyst> and sequell sees it now 11:16:40 <|amethyst> !lm lordfrikk crash -log 11:16:41 2. lordfrikk, XL20 SEEE, T:65827 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/lordfrikk/crash-lordfrikk-20130530-161519.txt 11:16:46 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:14 <|amethyst> LRD at map edge? 11:17:21 Looks like it. 11:20:31 oh god, i'm away for one day and you guys go nuts 11:20:32 ontoclasm: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:20:38 !messages 11:20:39 (1/1) mumra said (1d 2h 21m 39s ago): noooo! watery stairs are gone? 11:20:47 oh yeah, sorry :( 11:20:55 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:20:56 i just couldn't stand to look at them any more 11:22:04 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:36 ontoclasm: you could just do what I do: play console 11:23:16 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1293-g4d83136: Purge the beam and zap for Cigoruvi's. 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4d8313605d2e 11:23:52 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:25:25 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1294-gcdb489c: Only place one exit from a branch. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 39+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cdb489c3fa5b 11:25:33 !tell galehar Done. 11:25:34 Grunt: OK, I'll let galehar know. 11:27:53 -!- Palyth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:16 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:28:23 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 11:28:39 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:28:58 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 11:33:56 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:35:04 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:45:20 -!- JaGGed_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:45:34 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:49:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:51:43 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:19 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:47 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:06 http://pastebin.com/CsxDrUaF 11:55:41 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Butts] 11:58:49 Grunt: nice! 11:59:03 <|amethyst> 1. alarm_trap isn't right 11:59:09 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:59:10 <|amethyst> should be alarm trap with a space 11:59:52 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:39 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:00:49 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:06 <|amethyst> 2. I think you wanted commas on your MONS line, unless you mean to make a deep troll carrying a deep troll earth mage carrying a deep troll shaman :) 12:02:24 <|amethyst> I was not expecting that to work; I guess Mark lets them try to blast through the wall to you? 12:03:28 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:05:08 If they know you're on the other side of a wall (normal combat noise works too) they'll blast away. If that goes in, it looks like all the more reason to train some traps. 12:05:15 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:19 -!- btp826 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:05:33 ontoclasm: i'll forgive you since you're completely fixing shoals in every other respect ;) 12:05:57 well it's also a bad trap vault of the sort that we have been removing 12:06:18 ontoclasm: btw there have been some comments about the Forest floor tiles being terrible, could use something better there at some point 12:06:28 easily recognisiable in many layouts 12:06:31 Only the floor tiles? <_< 12:06:41 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:07:28 Grunt: i know! maybe nobody looks at the rest of the tiles because all they can see is the floor ones? :P 12:08:03 -!- Duralumin_ is now known as Duralumin 12:08:28 actually that reminds me, we need something for animated trees 12:09:57 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:10:43 can we never add any lightli vaults 12:10:44 please 12:12:08 |amethyst: we could just trigger that cheipoke url from a post-push hook locally ... 12:12:25 although, it seems solved anyway 12:14:37 MarvinPA: Sorry 12:15:57 mumra: everyone would need to install the hook by hand 12:16:28 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1294-gcdb489c (34) 12:17:00 kilobyte: well hopefully everyone already knows how to do that with the pre-commit hook ;) (and it's only a case of copying a file somewhere) 12:17:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:18:18 anyway -- not needing that is better of course 12:18:44 Grunt: try going to Tomb:1, preferably a few times 12:18:50 mumra: oh 12:18:51 oh god 12:19:00 the forest floor tiles 12:19:13 i'd managed to suppress those :C 12:19:17 kilobyte: aaaarggghhhhh 12:19:41 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:20:18 i just worked out what is probably wrong with Tomb 12:20:21 * Grunt does not have time to investigate right now :( 12:21:57 ontoclasm: still better than old Lair ones, which were used before 12:22:06 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:24:34 ontoclasm: suppress? they were also already used in some vaults :/ 12:24:47 i meant "from my memory" 12:24:49 :D 12:25:35 oh :D 12:25:49 (I'd prefer to suppress them completely) 12:28:44 MarvinPA: there's a better way to remove bad trap vaults, BTW 12:29:13 I snuck that in by a back door for the djinn, but would be nice to fix this in general 12:29:48 only question is, what with ZotDef 12:32:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:33:41 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:23 -!- Guest81510 is now known as magicpoints 12:34:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:42 -!- Helmschank has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:35:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:20 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:35 kilobyte: what came in with djinn? 12:36:54 I was going to start working on this: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6579 12:37:01 any advice on code files to look at? 12:37:15 mumra: they have no means of stepping on mechanical traps 12:37:21 ahh 12:37:44 but then how will djinn netstabbers be viable? 12:38:07 lightli's vault uses an alarm trap to unleash loads of deep trolls on you through a wall 12:38:18 so it's a different kind of "bad trap vault" 12:38:33 -!- Jevouse has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:50 somone committed a new trap vault? I thought there was a semi-moratorium on that sort of thing 12:39:25 evilmike: 1. can still disarm them (and thus stumble into one), 2. very shitty short blade apt so stabbing sucks anyway 12:39:37 evilmike: nothing was committed, he just linked a pastebin 12:39:38 it was a pastebin, not a commit 12:39:43 http://pastebin.com/CsxDrUaF 12:39:44 and 3. net traps are mechanical, thus bad 12:40:04 but we don't have any other sources of nets, other than gnollscumming (i just invented gnollscumming btw) 12:40:26 i count the irredeemably bad traps as the ones that just damage you on a random change and don't do anything else interesting 12:40:35 i hope it involves chaos cloning gnolls 12:40:54 also yes, net traps are definitely not as bad as other mechanical traps, although they still tend to not do much interesting 12:41:31 net traps can occasionally be amusing but yeah, the same basic effect works better in Spider where it's kind of rigged to work properly 12:42:21 although i know plenty of people dislike web traps :) 12:42:33 well things throwing nets is the interesting use of nets 12:42:41 yeah 12:43:29 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:43:31 LexAckson_: describe.cc get_monster_db_desc 12:43:40 thanks mumra 12:43:52 "make one exit from a branch" 12:44:06 LexAckson_: also spl-book.cc 12:44:33 Jevouse: except in the case of Tomb where apparently there are sometimes no exists 12:44:47 well 12:45:02 actually i think that's quite thematic for Tomb and we should say not-a-bug to that one 12:45:05 i dunno, i like multiple exits and entrances 12:45:09 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:45:16 there aren't multiple entrances tho 12:45:26 aren't/weren't 12:45:48 only multiple exits which all lead back to the same singular entrance 12:46:15 that's not impossible though 12:46:33 not impossible no, but pointless 12:46:51 good for fast exits when you enter a branch 12:47:07 mumra: uhm no, that stair often spawns in the middle 12:47:08 well when you enter, presumably you are near the exit you came in by 12:47:35 kilobyte: when i was ctrl-r'ing it was just dropping me in the middle but not on a stair, or so i tohught 12:48:07 well yes, then u explore and come across another exit + dangerous monster 12:48:19 kilobyte: yeah I'm looking at a Tomb:1 now with no exits 12:49:37 kilobyte: basically all three exits are getting destroyed, so the game just drops you somewhere random because it doesn't know where to put you otherwise 12:52:21 Jevouse: now you have to be more careful exploring a new branch 12:52:52 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:53:36 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1295-gf0618ca: Make vetoes easier to notice. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f0618ca0e7ec 12:53:36 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1296-gbf2ae14: Fix stair culling not considering one of them. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf2ae149358a 12:53:39 well i would like to see multiple exit/entrances maybe on different Dungeon levels for some of the bigger branches 12:53:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:53:58 hrm, entry vaults are broken, too: culling stairs will preserve those not overwritten by a random vault, ignoring the entry one 12:54:19 mumra: (what I just pushed doesn't fix the Tomb) 12:58:17 it would be nice if someone explained about the new races and forest on the dev blog 12:59:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:02:07 kilobyte: Tomb and entry vaults are presumably the same problem 13:05:54 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 13:06:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:08:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:01 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/newwater2.png 13:09:10 still a major WIP 13:09:14 but getting closer 13:11:58 ontoclasm: mmm 13:14:15 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:04 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:16 -!- Duralumin_ has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 13:16:38 obviously not finished, but it already looks better than current shoals 13:18:12 yess 13:19:58 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1297-g7c14b23: Mark grotesks as artificial beings (prohibiting their being Death Knights). 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c14b2386103 13:20:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:22:08 hm if they're nonliving, should they get big restrictions to necromancy, torment immune, etc? 13:22:26 I guess statue form still is affected by torment 13:22:44 i thought the idea was that they weren't really nonliving so that they wouldn't need all of that 13:23:04 not really sure though 13:23:47 well, dolorous's commit makes sense, I think. If the species is really made of stone, it's nonliving 13:24:02 that generally fits the definition we use for nonliving, at least 13:25:16 wasn't the whole point of calling them grotesks that they're living and therefore not gargoyles? 13:26:14 that is what i thought, and also the reason they only have rN+ and still need to eat and so on 13:26:26 I just started my GrDK game so I can get the high score regardless 13:26:29 the glory is mine 13:26:34 they're just a little bit nonliving, or something 13:26:59 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:27:05 maybe yred still hates that since statue form is also only a little bit nonliving and he hates statue form, i dunno 13:31:32 aren't lava orcs made of stone too? 13:32:08 they're uh... made of whatever orcs are made of, with some lava added 13:32:14 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:43 How this sand? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Snand.png 13:33:30 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/SnandTiled.png Seems to tile okay too. 13:33:37 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:34:28 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:34:32 Bloax: looks very griddy 13:35:08 Good morning 13:35:26 Well the alternative is that it looks pretty grain-ish. 13:35:56 possibly some variations would improve i 13:35:57 it 13:36:13 i like it when floor tiles are fairly subdued 13:36:35 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:22 looking at ontoclasm's new water, it's really nice how even though it's only one tile, it's not at all obvious it's repeating 13:40:18 I did a git remote update for the crawl code and it showed updated files related to the djinn update. However, after a >make clean, and a new make WEBTILES=y, I don't see the new species. Does anyone have a minute to let me know if I'm forgetting a critical step? 13:40:34 git pull 13:40:55 ^ that's all you need 13:41:41 Oh doh 13:42:19 I'm still noobing it up with git apparently. Ty. I will try that 13:42:31 lava orc (05o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(4), 04fire+++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 13:42:31 %??lava orc 13:43:00 monster doesn't say what kind of corpses a thing leaves, does it? 13:43:34 "dead ones" :P 13:44:33 ... do you mean as in skeletal or not? 13:45:02 I was thinking more like "orc corpse" or "lava orc corpse" 13:46:57 oh 13:47:06 well it doesn't seem like massively useful information 13:47:36 i guess normally it's the monster genus? 13:48:30 johnstein: I think |amethyst made a ticket about webtiles support for new species 13:48:45 webtiles already supports the new species 13:48:46 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:49:12 thanks to tireless efforts of pro devs 13:49:49 -!- herself has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:49:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:02 yeah, all I meant was that apparantly came a bit later than the rest or something 13:50:14 they were in the menu regardless 13:50:17 wasn't sure if it was done or not 13:50:20 what was missing? 13:50:28 lava orc's temperature bar 13:50:32 ah 13:50:37 typical 13:50:40 and djinni's essence bar was broken, and contam bar was missing 13:50:58 i largely fixed it, the edlothiol turned up and cleaned up 13:51:09 we really should come up with a better way to display all that stuff that doesn't require things to be changed in two or three places ... 13:51:50 sounds like it was a lot quicker than getting zot points ;-) 13:52:01 two or three places? that's so little! 13:52:16 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:52:46 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:53:07 SamB: what you're saying is the desktop version should actually be a local standalone webtiles server so the gui can be a unified html/javascript one, right? 13:53:24 mumra: not precisely 13:54:27 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:56 for example, I also think that the way we do it for "console" is quite ugly at the moment 13:55:15 (code-wise, not on screen) 13:56:11 evilmike: it just seems quite error prone, the way things are now 13:57:20 yeah. I was just joking, because some changes require making tons of little edits everywhere 13:57:37 a year ago I tried mucking around with area effects (silence etc) and got scared away 13:57:38 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:57:48 try adding a new player form! 13:57:52 I'm talking about where you have to make more-or-less the SAME addition in 3 places 13:58:03 oh 13:58:40 what do we call that sidebar anyway 13:58:48 the sidebar 13:58:51 SamB: you mean the same set of lots of tiny little edits, in 3 different places (and in fact involving three different languages in this case) 13:59:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:45 actually four different languages (counting html and css as separate languages which is slightly cheating but what the hell) 14:00:54 a while ago I discovered that not only was zotdef tiles not showing the pre-known area on the main screen like it was supposed to, but webtiles was missing Zot Points ... 14:01:08 -!- ryanaww has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:01:31 I fixed the former but not the latter since I didn't have webtiles set up and stuff ... 14:01:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:01:55 (reported a bug instead for edlothiol to fix) 14:02:49 at least you can roughly gague them by your ability list, it's sort of like piety that way 14:02:54 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 14:04:11 -!- radiantsilence has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:32 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:51 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:09 SamB: i did these webtiles fixes blind since i don't have it running locally ... yes it did take three or four pushes :P 14:07:29 I didn't want to try that 14:07:57 web dev is stuff i do all the time anyway so i'm pretty confident there 14:08:16 -!- kronusdark has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:08:29 part of it was the fact that it'd presumably been like that for ages already so it seemed like it could wait a bit longer :-) 14:08:42 yeah 14:09:02 MarvinPA (L27 NaEE) (Pan) 14:09:12 hm 14:09:13 I decided to try refactoring mon-stealth.cc and I have a couple of questions. Could you guys help me out? 14:09:14 -!- whanners has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:16 this was sort of like, i woke up this morning to find everything had been merged, and people were talking about webtiles being broken but nobody was around to fix it 14:09:19 !lm . crash -log 14:09:20 43. MarvinPA, XL27 NaEE, T:608451 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/MarvinPA/crash-MarvinPA-20130530-190854.txt 14:09:26 i drew a trowel card 14:10:24 hmm, could this be anything to do with the branch stairs change? 14:11:03 reaver: shoot 14:11:19 First, in coding_conventions.txt, it asked me to run util/checkwhite to ensure my code was correct. I found the executable, but I can't figure out how to run it. 14:11:28 I'm on a mac. 14:11:44 from the command line type util/checkwhite 14:11:49 you need to be in the source directory 14:12:26 i'm *assuming* this will work on mac since it's unix-based 14:12:35 Thanks, it worked 14:13:26 if you install the pre-commit hook for git, it'll stop you committing if you haven't run checkwhite, in case you forget 14:13:30 mumra: i don't think cdo has that change 14:13:48 I'll look into that. 14:13:52 reaver: docs/develop/git/config.txt if you haven't seen it yet 14:14:18 the hook is easy to install, just copy a file from one place to another 14:14:27 MarvinPA: cdo updates automatically doesn't it? 14:14:38 Thanks, also I noticed that berserking didn't give monsters a stealth penalty. I added one similar to floundering in water. That's fine right? 14:14:42 it's at 0.13-a0-1261-g76c65e7 14:15:03 oh ok, unrelated then 14:15:09 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:15:12 looks like it was trying to place a bazaar entrance maybe? 14:15:20 also i can't repro the crash locally 14:16:01 nmf (L22 DsBe) ASSERT(!aimed_at_feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 667 failed. (D:27) 14:16:07 maybe it depends on which portal it tries to place 14:16:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:16:57 http://crawl.develz.org/saves/dumps/MarvinPA-76c65e7-130530-1910.tar.bz2 is the save if anyone's curious, otherwise i'll mantis if i can't figure it out 14:17:03 mantis it* 14:18:44 MarvinPA: i just tried on CSZO in Pan, placed all the types of portal until it wouldn't do anything anymore, no crash 14:18:46 so it's weird 14:19:14 it just worked for me on cdo, yeah 14:19:30 weird :/ 14:19:51 oh oops i should've placed it outside pan in case i got a trove that i couldn't enter 14:20:05 i'm spectating 78291 and the crypt zombies and skeletons seem suspiciously biased towards forest enemies 14:20:09 revenant spectrals too 14:20:11 (luckily i'm carrying lots of curing) 14:20:42 is that just part of how the new zombie picking works? 14:21:03 the crypt zombie picking was supposed to choose _any_ valid type 14:21:19 also I thought spectral undead was fixed 14:21:22 reaver: i'm not sure exactly what monster stealth penalty does ... 14:21:23 -!- radiantsilence is now known as tenofswords 14:22:22 1learn add hangedman_nicks 14:22:29 maybe he's just weirdly lucky with faun and satyr undead 14:22:53 Right now it just makes it easier to see them when they're invisible. It seems like there might be plans for more (some code in their is for halos, incompatible with invisibility.) 14:23:13 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:23:24 Particularly since the stabber monsters flag got added recently. 14:23:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:48 it sounds reasonable, certainly 14:25:51 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:02 Ok, Next I noticed a there was function in called _clamp_steath which is only used once in the code, to make sure that monster stealth is within proper bounds. I removed the function and put the code in the only place it was actually used. Was that correct? 14:29:18 reaver: it seems like a fairly inconsequential change, but i can't see a reason why that function existed 14:29:25 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 24.0a1/20130529031131]] 14:29:29 when it could be written on one line of code 14:29:40 max(-3,min(3,stealth)) 14:30:15 We should probably have a general function for that, it seems we use that kind of thing a lot. 14:30:22 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30:40 Having both a minimum and maximum for a variable. 14:30:42 reaver: i'm just wondering why are you refactor mon-stealth.cc anything, i don't really see anything wrong with it? 14:31:03 It seem like something simple for me to start with. I'm just learning coding. 14:31:04 reaver: yeah, a general clamp function can be pretty handy 14:31:24 reaver: such a function should have options for wrapping at the limits instead of clamping 14:32:06 reaver: oh ok. i just can't see any meaningful way it could be refactored, it's fairly simple and succinct as is 14:32:40 Well, for one thing, it sets base_stealth for one thing, sets adjusted_stealth to that, and then never uses base_steath again. 14:33:51 hmm yeah, that's kind of redundant 14:34:09 Speaking of that, I turned those variable into one variable, "stealth." This shadows the function that calculates the value, but I think a different name would be more confusing. Should I change it? 14:34:42 yeah, shadowing like that is probably bad 14:35:31 How do you come up with variable names in situations like this? 14:35:35 it doesn't really matter here, but i'd avoid it 14:35:39 maybe final_stealth 14:35:47 or result 14:35:52 OK 14:36:39 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:48 i guess this is just terminology but "refactoring" would normally be used imply a more significant reorganisation of code; small changes like this i'd refer to just as "cleanup" or "simplification" 14:37:53 if I want to post a patch for something I'm working on to mantis, is it fine to have merged master recently into my branch on my local repo and make a patch based on my branch? 14:38:11 Alright, I'll call it simplification on the mantis ticket. 14:38:38 it doesn't really matter but that was my first assumption when you said you were refactoring ;) 14:38:53 gammafunk: yes 14:38:56 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:39:01 ok, ty 14:39:39 Alright, next, because their gimmick is being invisible, unseen horrors are hardcoded to have maximum stealth. This overrides things like floundering which would logically take precedence. 14:39:44 1)Should I move the checks so they don't do this 2) Is this worth making a monster flag for? 14:40:08 can unseen horrors flounder? 14:40:37 They don't levitate. Are there other ways something can not flounder? 14:40:56 @??unseen horror 14:40:56 unseen horror (06x) | Spd: 30 | HD: 7 | HP: 25-53 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 12 | see invisible | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 747 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 14:41:28 floundering is water creatures ending up on land i think? 14:41:48 oh right, also monsters in water 14:42:09 i think if it's in water you'd see a disturbance so the invisibility would be irrelevant anyway 14:42:43 Ok, but what about my new berserk check? 14:42:47 basically, if more was going to be done with monster stealth, then it's probably worthwhile having some flags for various levels of monster stealth, or even a property in mon-data; 14:42:58 @??unseen horror zombie 14:42:58 unknown monster: "unseen horror zombie" 14:43:04 But not in this case? 14:43:15 but in its current state, and considering the current simplicity of mon-stealth.cc, it's probably not worth it 14:43:19 @??unseen_horror_zombie 14:43:19 unknown monster: "unseen_horror_zombie" 14:43:32 Thank you 14:43:45 especially as these flags would only exist for benefit of unseen horrors and orcs (who appear to have a hardcoded stealth malus) 14:44:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:44:20 Yes, I believe its so orc wizards don't murder people as much. 14:44:32 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 14:45:09 This means that Sigmund has a better invisibility even though he uses an orc wizard spell list. 14:45:45 sigmund should have a stealth bonus if anything :) (joke) 14:46:36 Alright, last question. I notice the util/checkwhite results are a little cryptic "spaces at eol: mon-stealth.cc" Is there a list somewhere of what they mean? 14:47:14 they are no more 14:47:20 checkwhite just removed them 14:47:34 -!- N78291 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:49:06 Cool, thank you very much. I'll upload the patch to mantis soon. 14:50:57 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:51:53 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:00:28 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:34 -!- sym has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:59 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:07:10 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:08:34 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:28 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:16:11 -!- yalue has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:17:46 -!- Egglet has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:18:15 -!- N78291 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:18:41 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:19:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:28 -!- Zermako has quit [] 15:21:43 -!- reaver has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:21:59 -!- quazi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:23:12 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1298-gce26f17: Allow fewer than three stairs on D:1. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 22+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ce26f17ce48f 15:23:30 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:26:16 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:27:38 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:28:16 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1299-g7d272e8: Give Lava Orcs stat growth 10(75 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7d272e898993 15:29:51 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:58 ??stat gain[2 15:29:59 stat gain[2/2]: | DrCe sd/4 | DD si/4 | DE i/4 | Dg sid/2 | Dj sid/4 |Dr sid/4 | Ds sid/4 | Fe id/5 | Gh s/5 | Gr si/4 | Ha d/5 | HE id/3 | HO s/5 | Hu sid/4 | LO s/5 | Ko sd/5 | Mf sid/5 | Mi sd/4 | Mu none | Na sid/4 | Og s/3 | Op sid/5 | SE id/4 | Sp id/5 | Te sid/4 | Tr s/3 | Vp none 15:31:05 beh, 22:29 < MarvinPA> !learn edit stat_gain[2] s|LO none|LO s/5| 15:31:12 :) 15:31:27 I'd imagine Djinn getting more stats than that. 15:31:33 Though I imagine a lot of things. 15:32:12 Bloax: /4 is quite a standard 15:32:29 Well yeah, and they're rather non-standard. :p 15:34:14 not sure if they should get dex increases with their theme of low agility (bad dodging, good armour, can't manoevuer well with no contact with the ground or proper flight apparatus) 15:40:10 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:24 -!- N78291 has quit [Client Quit] 15:43:29 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:46:46 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:48:49 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 15:49:09 wait huh 15:49:22 a creature of air and fire bad at dodging 15:49:24 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:26 now i've seen everything 15:49:44 ah the agility of a baloon... 15:49:59 zeppelin-style dodging 15:50:06 <|amethyst> I don't know if I'd call -1 bad 15:50:10 <|amethyst> !apt dodging 15:50:11 Dodge: Sp: 4!, Mf: 3, Fe: 3, Ha: 2, SE: 2, DE: 2, Ko: 2, Vp: 1, HE: 1, Mi: 1, Te: 1, DD: 1, Op: 0, Hu: 0, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, Dr: -1, Og: -1, Gh: -1, HO: -2, Mu: -2, Tr: -2, Na: -2, Ce: -3* 15:50:16 -1 is pretty bad 15:50:27 not so bad that you can't consider getting dodging 15:50:52 ...although looking at that chart now, it's weird how many races are good at it 15:50:52 I've trained armor to 27 in a 3-runer game as a Mf, I'm pretty certain -1 is fine 15:51:03 <|amethyst> !apt armour 15:51:03 Armour: Mi: 2!, HO: 1, Te: 1, DD: 1, Hu: 0, HE: -1, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, Gh: -1, Mu: -2, Vp: -2, Ha: -2, SE: -2, DE: -2, Tr: -2, Na: -2, Og: -2, Ko: -2, Mf: -3*, Sp: -3*, Ce: -3*, Op: N/A, Dr: N/A, Fe: N/A 15:51:13 <|amethyst> and how many are bad at armour 15:51:22 yeah, that's a rather strange imbalance 15:52:09 Dj get slight disadvantage at dodging and a slight advantage at wearing armour, so they help this balance somewhat 15:52:46 that sounds kinda wierd though 15:52:46 are all mutations that dj get temporary 15:52:48 this should also help against shoehorning them into magic roles 15:52:58 Jevouse: only ones caused by glow 15:53:10 LO follow the HO lead in apts, and Gr are minus in both 15:53:16 So two more races good with hA 15:53:17 Well even if they end up in magic roles, they can still get an armour defense if they want too 15:53:33 much more easily than most other races at least 15:53:35 so that's also handy 15:53:42 -!- rkd has quit [] 15:54:06 -!- GuraKKa1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:54:10 Obvious question: Ignoring the blatantly broken beyond all belief DjHe, how broken are djinn? 15:54:57 A lot of the people who've played them seem to think they're pretty broken 15:55:33 Which just makes me more curious to actually try one so I have some grounds to comment, I suppose 15:56:04 I'm the only person online to have won one, so i have some grounds to comment 15:56:24 Lightli: healers tend to be limited by food, indeed 15:57:15 I found XL1-2 conjurers to be incredibly weak, to the point of wanting to melee everything instead of casting; and higher level ones to become overpowered 15:57:15 self-heal is probably pretty strange with them too 15:57:46 Strange? Ely becomes better at giving you globs of MP than Sif, although Ely at least has a cost 15:57:52 since that would end up being only limited by piety, which isn't necessarily in short supply..... 15:58:32 Healers in general are overpowered to be honest, so it's not like DjHe is alone in that category. 15:58:53 well there are certainly different tiers of overpowered in Crawl 15:59:12 Good point, DjHe is probably at the top of that list at the moment 15:59:22 <|amethyst> if healers are overpowered, then djhe is batshit insane 15:59:34 It's like having perma-DD on at all times 15:59:56 And an airstrike that doesn't suck 16:00:05 Healers are kind of in the "unintuitive but super-broken" category, which DjHe would stretch to the breaking point 16:00:42 not that the playstyle is complicated, just that a lot of people don't seem to "get" healer even if they otherwise have some understanding of Crawl 16:00:45 hmm, wait... Dj don't have better hp than most, their regen is same, so the only advantage for healers I see is no food requirements 16:00:47 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 16:00:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:00:58 that's a pretty significant advantage imo 16:01:10 and self heal is getting yourself mp 16:01:13 kilobyte: They also have mp equal to your hp 16:01:24 no, 1 mp is 2 essence 16:01:28 It's not necessarily just healer either 16:01:29 well, half your HP 16:01:42 also I think djinni have an EP total equal to HP+MP 16:01:47 Point is, healing has no cost outside of piety and effectively gives you MP. 16:01:48 like presumably something like FE of Elyvilon could be very strong 16:02:06 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:02:08 SwissStopwatch: DjSu of El-wait no, Ely hates allies dying 16:02:21 I don't see how to make Dj of Sif not completely ridiculous 16:02:22 if you train Invo to use self-heal as superchanneling 16:02:52 G-Flex: Sif causes loads of glow 16:02:59 okay 16:02:59 G-Flex: the contamination build-up goes a long way 16:03:07 I'm guessing it's still pretty useful though 16:03:13 (not like that's bad in itself) 16:03:15 you don't really want to be constantly channeling I suspect 16:03:30 unless u have rMut 16:03:31 Yeah, that's why DjSu might not destroy the game as hard as MuSu 16:03:32 but even if you have to channel a lot, it's not like the muts are permanent if you get a few 16:03:57 You do still run the risk of getting a pretty inconvenient one in a bad spot of course 16:03:57 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:04:04 not a high risk, but a risk 16:04:07 does rF- do anything to djinni 16:04:14 SwissStopwatch: turning up the glow ratio is easy, so balancing Sif shouldn't be hard 16:04:33 G-Flex: Nope 16:04:42 somewhat harder to think up a good solution for Ely 16:04:48 Well the thing you probably don't want is to have normal hunger costs end up causing ridiculous amounts of glow 16:05:24 SwissStopwatch: MP gains from channeling are also configurable 16:05:39 SwissStopwatch: even if costs remain 2:1, gains don't need to 16:05:40 i vote we just nerf Sif channeling and be done with it 16:05:55 Lightli: you just said Ely is better, though 16:06:01 I kind of wonder how the sif channeling actually plays though 16:06:02 <|amethyst> kilobyte: do something with the holiness, make ely accept only MH_NATURAL 16:06:12 |amethyst: or that 16:06:19 Since Dj isn't actually running low on HP/MP/EP unless it's about to die 16:06:36 Or just make it so you can't heal yourself as a Dj with Ely 16:06:46 |amethyst: I personally like having a race that is kinda-sort-demonic-ish but that can worship holy gods 16:06:56 And if it is getting close to death, it probably shouldn't stand there and channel 16:06:58 <|amethyst> G-Flex: I was thinking just ely, not all of them 16:07:02 oh 16:07:04 but should instead just be fleeing 16:07:06 that might make sense 16:07:07 |amethyst: the Koran explicitely says Djinn are capable of doing both good and evil so good gods in general should probably stay, but this doesn't mean Ely's powers should work on themselves 16:07:21 <|amethyst> yeah, I like Lightli's suggestion better than mine 16:07:28 ....you know what, how does crystal ball work with Djinn 16:07:40 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:41 It doesn't do anything yet 16:07:50 mm. 16:07:54 SwissStopwatch: currently disabled, but I plan to re-enable it; would need a redesign though 16:08:20 crystal ball potentially being an Evo-based Borgnjor's Revivification for Djinn sounds wacky 16:08:28 yes that doesn't sound good 16:08:39 <|amethyst> but if you fail, you're dead 16:08:42 <|amethyst> :P 16:08:50 yes, essence drain to 0 HP 16:09:10 what do eyes of draining do to djinni? 16:09:14 (or anything with the same effect) 16:09:17 A lot of the time if Borg fails you're also dead, but it is at least not a potential guarantee 16:09:24 Make it so you can't cast spells 16:09:26 For a while 16:09:28 massive healing that's not a consumable and doesn't have any permanent cost and doesn't cost piety sounds questionable 16:09:29 |amethyst: my current ideas are paralysis (good), confusion (meh), perhaps antimagic 16:09:29 okay 16:09:47 <|amethyst> kilobyte: in exchange for healing you to full? 16:09:47 -!- sepik121 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:09:54 The essence mechanic is just so weird 16:09:57 Borg is questionable too 16:10:06 much weirder than gspirit, despite being pretty similar 16:10:10 -!- marcmagus has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:10:24 SwissStopwatch: blame moon trolls! :p 16:10:24 Borg probably just shouldn't work 16:10:32 <|amethyst> wait, how does GS work on djinn? 16:10:34 yeah, easy to explain that 16:10:39 <|amethyst> you take 3/4 damage from everything? 16:10:41 Since it's not like a djinn is a living thing in the normal sense 16:10:54 <|amethyst> or it does nothing? 16:11:09 |amethyst: GS reduces HP damage by taking from MP 16:11:14 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:11:19 It does nothing 16:11:30 it's also marked as useless 16:11:43 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I was wondering whether the 2:1 ratio applied there, but I guess not 16:11:47 |amethyst: I decided to be nice and make it do nothing, as opposed to doubling all damage per the HP/MP conversion ratio :p 16:11:55 useless on the grounds that they have a weird combination of it and auto self sub as a permanent racial feature 16:12:05 <|amethyst> oh, right, wrong direction :) 16:13:55 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:15:23 <|amethyst> kilobyte: as for holiness, were you hoping for something like MH_HOLY | MH_DEMONIC ? 16:15:38 kind of, yeah 16:15:46 what happens if djinn eat ambrosia 16:15:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:16:12 demon is defined by most religions as an angel who rebelled, so it's a matter of alignment only 16:16:47 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I don't know if I'd say "most religions" 16:17:05 only Christianity, that I'm aware of 16:17:37 geekosaur: Islam 16:17:39 Jewish demons are related to djinn; they can be good or evil but mostly are "chaotic" (i.e. their notions of good and evil do not make sense to us and vice versa) 16:17:47 probably Judaism, although I'm less sure there 16:19:29 <|amethyst> kilobyte: does islam have fallen angels? 16:19:42 <|amethyst> it has fallen djinn, but djinn aren't angels 16:20:13 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:20:14 daevas used to be good but only later turned evil, too 16:20:32 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:46 |amethyst: Iblis at least is sometimes called a djinni, sometimes an angel 16:21:32 -!- repent has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:21:35 i always got the impression that djinn weren't "religious" creatures 16:21:37 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:22:28 dragons and giants and so on aren't holy or evil, they're just things that happen to be supernatural 16:23:05 there also isn't any reason to be constrained by some existing concept of what things are 16:23:23 gameplay should drive the design 16:24:26 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:38 st_: yeah, but if the source describes them as capable of both good and evil in multiple places, I wouldn't ignore that unless there's something to gain by ignoring that 16:25:02 and restricting a race to certain gods only is not a good thing 16:25:08 <|amethyst> btw, what does Zin think of djinn? 16:25:19 <|amethyst> in particular, when they incur hunger costs 16:26:04 you are not allowed to get into harmful glow, ie, the contam bar full 16:26:18 <|amethyst> but yellow is okay because it doesn't mutate them? 16:26:19 same as other races 16:26:21 yeah 16:26:39 <|amethyst> even though it makes them glow with chaotic energy? 16:26:40 kilobyte: so Beogh should accept everyone 16:27:03 <|amethyst> they still do thing like mutate ugly things at yellow, don't they? 16:27:13 <|amethyst> thinsg 16:27:29 SamB: Beogh accepting everyone wouldn't hurt gameplay, only theme 16:27:33 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:27:45 mutate ugly things? 16:28:01 -!- dienosore has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:28:14 don't ugly things change color anyway 16:29:10 <|amethyst> kilobyte: if a contaminated player is nearby, that increases the chance of colour change 16:29:21 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:41 <|amethyst> oh, I guess even grey contam counts for that 16:31:28 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1300-ga67038b: Simplify. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a67038be9cc4 16:31:28 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1301-g7a822ad: Add formatting fixes. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7a822ad23513 16:31:31 that would be like if he complained when you bitrotted a soviet computer system ... 16:34:52 -!- Demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:35:09 <|amethyst> does melee hunger affect djinn? 16:35:19 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:35:33 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:35:41 |amethyst: no 16:35:46 <|amethyst> oh, okay 16:36:08 |amethyst: only "magical" sources, including invocations 16:36:14 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:15 wouldn't be noticeable anyway 16:36:37 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it would be noticeable if you were right on the border and were prevented from attacking half the time 16:36:53 <|amethyst> (with Zin) 16:37:37 Zin gets mad at you, he doesn't block you from transgressing 16:38:02 -!- Sizzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:12 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:20 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:06 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 16:39:09 <|amethyst> I should figure out something better to do about bad account names 16:39:34 <|amethyst> I mean, banning them from sizzell announcements is fine and all, but there are some things I'd rather not have in the lobby 16:40:11 Simple, make it so their accountname is censored in the lobby 16:40:27 gay niggers from outer space again? 16:40:38 lol 16:40:39 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:41 buttholecancer... 16:40:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte: bundles of sticks 16:40:48 -!- atomicthumbs has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:58 I have heard talk of removing an elf 16:41:07 this is entirely the wrong direction to take crawl 16:41:08 <|amethyst> atomicthumbs: none of it too serious yet 16:41:11 we need more elves. hundreds of elves 16:41:15 crud elf, low elf 16:41:27 Dwarf elf 16:41:31 evil elf 16:41:40 <|amethyst> CRUD elf speaks SQL 16:41:54 <|amethyst> RCU elf has low contention 16:42:31 <|amethyst> atomicthumbs: I don't know if we need to add more 16:42:33 ooh having the bad account names list also respected by lobby/dgl would be pretty sweet 16:42:34 rax: You have 20 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:42:41 <|amethyst> atomicthumbs: we just need to rename the races we already have 16:42:45 |amethyst: why would you just hide them instead of applying the banhammer with full force? 16:43:09 <|amethyst> kilobyte: makes them less likely to try to work around it 16:43:12 need more dwarves ! 16:43:18 hell elf. pan elf 16:43:24 Large elf 16:43:29 -!- repent has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:43:32 I haven't banned offensive names in the past beause I feel like getting into a war with the internet is not going to go well for me, and minimizing their impact will hopefully make them get bored 16:43:39 more elves? 16:43:40 Hill Dwarf 16:43:42 <|amethyst> what rax said 16:43:55 it seems to have mostly worked on CAO in the past although webtiles is not something I had considered at the time 16:43:56 We could do without high elves I suppose 16:44:03 Dwarfling 16:44:08 muck elf, swamp elf, quarter-elf 16:44:13 Or get rid of sludge elves and make gortesks into the main tm race 16:44:54 deep dwarves are lonely now that lorcs are in 16:45:14 Hill Dwelf? 16:45:29 |amethyst: no automated filter will work, I'm afraid. "Fago7" would cause too many false positives. 16:45:49 pls implement air dwarves 16:45:54 they live in the clouds 16:45:59 <|amethyst> kilobyte: not automated 16:46:04 Water Dwarf 16:46:09 feel free to take your elf and dwarf proposals to ##crawl 16:46:21 Lightli: -2 Tmut apt 16:46:23 i am pretty much making jokes here 16:46:27 This is where serious talk happens and I submit bad vault ideas 16:46:30 yes i figured 16:46:30 removing sludge elves sounds like a good way to go 16:47:08 <|amethyst> !apt se 16:47:09 SE: Fighting: 1, Short: -1, Long: -1, Axes: -2, Maces: -2, Polearms: -2, Staves: 0, Slings: 0, Bows: 0, Xbows: 0, Throw: 2, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 2, Stab: 0, Shields: -2, Traps: 0, UC: 1!, Splcast: 1, Conj: -2, Hexes: 0, Charms: -2, Summ: 1, Nec: 1, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 3!, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Air: 1, Earth: 1, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 0, HP: -1, MP: 1 16:47:09 <|amethyst> !apt mf 16:47:10 Mf: Fighting: 1, Short: 2, Long: 1, Axes: -2, Maces: -2, Polearms: 4!, Staves: -2, Slings: -2, Bows: -2, Xbows: -2, Throw: 0, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 3, Stealth: 2, Stab: 2, Shields: 0, Traps: -1, UC: 1!, Splcast: -1, Conj: -2, Hexes: 0, Charms: 1, Summ: 0, Nec: -2, Tloc: -2, Tmut: 3!, Fire: -3*, Ice: 1, Air: -2, Earth: -2, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 0, HP: 0, MP: 0 16:47:18 We could actually remove both high and sludge elves. 16:47:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:47:49 Thus leaving us with two spaces to fill in the future 16:48:07 <|amethyst> and halfling of course 16:48:08 are we back at 27 16:48:29 <|amethyst> was there someone who wanted to keep halflings? 16:49:04 <|amethyst> because I've heard their removal suggested numerous times and the biggest objection I can remember was "eh" 16:49:11 eh, slings 16:49:11 I don't even know why halflings still exist 16:49:42 <|amethyst> hm 16:49:51 well as far as small races go they do a lot more than kobolds 16:50:10 there was an attempt to differentiate them from kobolds, and their apts were pushed apart 16:50:22 <|amethyst> just got an email saying CSZO is moving to a new data center in the coming week(s) 16:50:30 <|amethyst> with a 1 to three hour service interruption 16:50:35 could merge them back 16:50:45 Half-kobold? 16:50:50 and you've probably heard it suggested numerous times because kilobyte suggests it frequently, i don't know that i've seen anyone else suggest it 16:51:02 MarvinPA: yeah, that too :p 16:51:10 <|amethyst> maybe that was it 16:51:25 oh god we are back at the number 16:51:27 i guess i wouldn't necessarily be against merging ha and ko though 16:51:30 yup 16:51:32 27 16:51:48 The question is which race stays and which race ceases to exist 16:51:49 <|amethyst> Lightli: that's why octopodes are on A :) 16:51:56 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:52:00 halflings aren't really present in the dungeon (a few vaults excepted) and kobolds are, I suppose 16:52:03 <|amethyst> Lightli: remove both, replace with something not D&D 16:52:03 (I vote we keep kobolds) 16:52:05 and I don't have much against the race in general, it's because I spent many years on a Tolkien-based MUD, and I acquired a habit of disparaging hobbits at any occassion 16:52:16 MUME ? 16:52:27 Jevouse: ? 16:52:35 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:52:36 tolkien based MUD 16:52:43 Jevouse: no, T2T 16:52:46 ah 16:53:21 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:54:02 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:54:07 SE are quite a clear case, though: Mf are better at all their principal playstyles, other than necromancy which has other replacements 16:54:27 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:54:48 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:54:56 What about HE 16:55:04 <|amethyst> !lg * se xl>10 s=class 16:55:05 3905 games for * (se xl>10): 1470x Transmuter, 855x Earth Elementalist, 303x Necromancer, 116x Fire Elementalist, 114x Assassin, 109x Summoner, 106x Ice Elementalist, 104x Monk, 99x Venom Mage, 94x Stalker, 89x Wizard, 52x Air Elementalist, 46x Death Knight, 35x Gladiator, 31x Berserker, 30x Conjurer, 29x Hunter, 27x Wanderer, 26x Chaos Knight, 24x Arcane Marksman, 23x Healer, 23x Artificer, 19x F... 16:55:15 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:33 <|amethyst> !lg * seee xl>10 s=skill 16:55:34 855 games for * (seee xl>10): 552x Earth Magic, 187x Spellcasting, 35x Transmutations, 31x Dodging, 15x Unarmed Combat, 8x Fighting, 7x Necromancy, 6x Conjurations, 6x Stealth, 5x Evocations, Fire Magic, Staves, Summonings 16:55:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte: SEEE maybe not 16:55:57 |amethyst: that's DE domain 16:56:12 ametthyst: DD and DE do Earth just fine anyways. Also LO 16:56:33 Dracs are cooler for unarmed, too 16:56:45 !apt Ice 16:56:45 Ice: Dr[white]: 2!, Mf: 1, SE: 1, DE: 1, Gh: 1, Vp: 0, HE: 0, Ha: 0, Op: 0, Dr: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Ko: 0, HO: -1, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, Te: -1, DD: -1, Ce: -1, Mu: -2, Sp: -2, Dr[red]: -2, Fe: -2, Mi: -3*, Tr: -3*, Og: -3* 16:56:49 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:56:54 !apt earth 16:56:55 Earth: DD: 3!, Dr[grey]: 2, SE: 1, DE: 1, Gh: 1, HO: 0, Vp: 0, Ha: 0, Op: 0, Dr: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Ko: 0, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, Sp: -1, Ce: -1, Tr: -1, Mu: -2, HE: -2, Mi: -2, Mf: -2, Dr[black]: -2, Fe: -2, Te: -3*, Og: -3* 16:56:59 !apt air 16:57:00 Air: Te: 3!, HE: 2, Dr[black]: 2, Ha: 1, SE: 1, Dr[pale]: 1, Vp: 0, Op: 0, DE: 0, Dr: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Ko: 0, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, Sp: -1, Ce: -1, Fe: -1, HO: -2, Mu: -2, Mf: -2, Dr[grey]: -2, Gh: -2, Mi: -3, DD: -3, Og: -3, Tr: -4* 16:57:05 ice could use some love 16:57:16 Why do DE only have 0 in air 16:57:29 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:35 <|amethyst> Lightli: they used to have 1 air 0 earth 16:57:39 oh 16:57:40 the clue is in the name 16:57:41 -!- ark__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58:30 We can't really use SE's earth skill as an excuse to keep them, LO and Gr both have good earth. 16:58:41 Now the question is: How many races can we remove in 1 shot 16:58:54 -!- C7ty1 has quit [] 16:59:02 well, now that we have an earth themed race, a fire themed race, and tengu 16:59:06 just missing the ice race 16:59:08 ;D 16:59:38 just make halflings into ice halflings 16:59:42 Jevouse: two earth themed races, two fire themed ones. Or perhaps, 1.5 of each. 16:59:54 because with LO it depends 16:59:54 right 17:00:29 although neither Djinn get a fire enhancer, nor Grotesks an earth one 17:00:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:00:54 I say the elves could go and we cut halflings. There, we're back to the safe 24 17:01:16 mf are already fairly ice themed, also we don't need to shoehorn things into certain builds just for the sake of it 17:01:18 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:01:43 MF is water themed , not ice 17:01:52 !apt ice 17:01:53 Ice: Dr[white]: 2!, Mf: 1, SE: 1, DE: 1, Gh: 1, Vp: 0, HE: 0, Ha: 0, Op: 0, Dr: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Ko: 0, HO: -1, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, Te: -1, DD: -1, Ce: -1, Mu: -2, Sp: -2, Dr[red]: -2, Fe: -2, Mi: -3*, Tr: -3*, Og: -3* 17:02:05 <|amethyst> no one has guaranteed ice apt above +1 17:02:08 -!- Silurio1 is now known as Silurio 17:02:37 <|amethyst> which does stand in contrast with the other elements 17:02:43 we need bubbly ice orcs, with ice+air, to counteract lava ones 17:02:48 i don't see how that is a problem in any way at all 17:03:04 elemental symmetry 17:03:08 Lightli: HE have the best long blades apt so they do have a kind of niche 17:03:18 mumra: Tied with minotaurs 17:03:19 since when was elemental symmetry a goal 17:03:22 Lightli: which keeps getting bashed as cookie-cutter palette swap 17:03:31 kilobyte: I never said it was good 17:03:45 Ice magic is harder to learn because it does more stuff than the other schools. Simple 17:03:52 does it? 17:04:21 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:04:43 Lightli: there's no other race meant to be made for hybrids, good at (almost everything). Only demigods kind of reach that niche. 17:05:05 !apt HE 17:05:06 HE: Fighting: 0, Short: 2, Long: 2!, Axes: -2, Maces: -2, Polearms: -2, Staves: 0, Slings: -2, Bows: 3!, Xbows: 0, Throw: 1, Armour: -1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 2, Stab: -1, Shields: -1, Traps: 0, UC: -2*, Splcast: 1, Conj: 1, Hexes: 0, Charms: 2, Summ: -1, Nec: -2, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 2, Earth: -2, Poison: -2, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: -1, HP: -1, MP: 2 17:05:14 !apt mf 17:05:15 Mf: Fighting: 1, Short: 2, Long: 1, Axes: -2, Maces: -2, Polearms: 4!, Staves: -2, Slings: -2, Bows: -2, Xbows: -2, Throw: 0, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 3, Stealth: 2, Stab: 2, Shields: 0, Traps: -1, UC: 1!, Splcast: -1, Conj: -2, Hexes: 0, Charms: 1, Summ: 0, Nec: -2, Tloc: -2, Tmut: 3!, Fire: -3*, Ice: 1, Air: -2, Earth: -2, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 0, HP: 0, MP: 0 17:05:49 Guess the solution is to remove humans 17:05:50 Lightli: only the best weapon skill matters, no one bothers with inferior types other than as a challenge 17:06:06 yeah, humans suck and are totally uncool 17:06:08 <|amethyst> the +4 polearms is pretty significant for the hybrid thing, as it means you have to divert less XP from your magic skills 17:06:14 we have more than enough proofs in RL 17:07:15 |amethyst: Armour -3 Spc -1 Conj -2 pretty much bans Mf from the armoured caster role 17:07:37 kilobyte: -3 armour almost bans them from heavy armour period 17:08:16 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:08:29 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1302-g06d9311: Remove unneeded parentheses. 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=06d93119f86e 17:08:29 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1303-g2234123: Add needed parentheses and formatting fixes. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2234123e3dc2 17:08:29 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1304-g570861c: Add formatting fixes. 10(83 seconds ago, 3 files, 14+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=570861c65103 17:08:29 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1305-ga402062: Add spacing fixes. 10(52 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a40206249dff 17:08:35 (I did get it to 27 as a Mf, but that was as a Be and didn't happen until just before the orb) 17:09:16 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:09:34 browsing HE winners, it looks like half of them runs around in -3 EV armour 17:10:04 You mean what was formerly -3EV 17:10:18 * kilobyte hasn't noticed anything heavier yet. 17:10:32 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:11:11 that would be scale then 17:11:33 Scale, FDA, IDA, PDA 17:11:49 Most probably ended the game in FDA or IDA 17:12:12 +5 scale mail of Space {rF++ rC+} 17:12:24 how odd, none of those are mottled 17:12:28 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:12:30 That is also acceptable 17:12:36 * kilobyte found one so far. 17:12:46 What about PDA? 17:13:36 two straight casters, none pure meleers, all the rest with heavish investment both in melee and magic (among those I've read so far) 17:13:47 ie, mindelay or more 17:14:41 Ok, I guess High Elves still have a niche 17:14:57 Are SE good to go? 17:15:24 I find no reason to keep them; what do you guys say? 17:15:33 <|amethyst> I like that they have a +1 to every element 17:15:35 make way for the ice dwarves! 17:15:46 <|amethyst> but in practice that's not really relevant 17:16:02 <|amethyst> but 17:16:08 |amethyst: so do you vote for or against removal? 17:16:12 <|amethyst> of the elves, they probably have to most unique theme 17:16:17 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I don't know 17:16:34 <|amethyst> kilobyte: abstain 17:16:57 hrm, so no outright consensus 17:17:06 Let me fix that 17:17:13 I vote for SE to go the way of the MD 17:17:23 'They don't even show up in swamp 17:17:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:18:12 If it proves too controversial, we can always just add them back in 17:18:48 (ignore the we and replace it with you guys 17:19:43 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:21:42 -!- Justinthyme has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:25:13 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:25:33 hello? 17:26:01 moo? 17:26:33 <|amethyst> Lightli: You know, you can't go from "no outright consensus" to "outright consensus" by adding one more vote :) 17:26:41 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 17:26:48 well, I tried 17:27:06 -!- IsaacSin has quit [Quit: ( FOIL! :: First Outer Inner Last!)] 17:27:11 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I have suggested removal of SE in the past, and ISTR there being a few objections 17:27:15 <|amethyst> can't remember who though 17:27:27 I expect MarvinPA, elliptic and dpeg to be most likely to have an opinion 17:27:57 |amethyst: can you recall what the objections were about? 17:28:02 -!- xxx_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:28:02 I vote yes for removing SE 17:28:10 <|amethyst> kilobyte: no, but I'll grep IRC logs 17:28:29 i am in favour of it too, yeah 17:28:37 Outright consensus? 17:28:50 galehar, SamB, mumra, ...: 17:28:59 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:29:30 Curses, I want to watch the end of a species 17:30:02 :p 17:30:10 I would feel bad if we had no elves 17:30:24 since then there would be nobody to get the racial bonus :-( 17:30:47 <|amethyst> SamB: that's a genus :) 17:31:04 SamB: Deep elves are fine 17:31:22 SamB: DEs are one of strongest keepers possible, HEs seem to have some reasons to let them live 17:31:27 oh I forgot how many kinds of elf we had 17:31:45 huh, who removed curare from autopickup? 17:31:50 <|amethyst> Jevouse: me 17:31:59 vanilla, grey 17:31:59 <|amethyst> some time ago 17:32:21 <|amethyst> %git :/curare autopickup 17:32:24 07|amethyst * 0.11-a0-505-ge11df56: Drop curare autopickup from the default config. 10(1 year, 2 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e11df563a774 17:32:33 why though 17:32:39 can we add it back with a better comment 17:32:40 <|amethyst> See the comment 17:32:41 you could read the commit message 17:32:45 <|amethyst> s/comment/commit message/ 17:32:57 like "curare is awesome" instead of "curare is dangerous to leave lying around" 17:33:00 -!- geekosaur has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 17:33:18 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:33:37 <|amethyst> some time ago It is unintuitive and inconsistent with other dangerous items. Curare 17:33:37 -!- frostsnow has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:33:40 <|amethyst> is bad, but the monster needs a blowgun in order for it to be dangerous. 17:33:41 <|amethyst> s/some time ago// 17:33:44 <|amethyst> Fixes #5400. 17:34:28 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 17:34:59 well, add it back for assassins 17:35:13 <|amethyst> Jevouse: assassins should auto-pickup all needles now 17:35:18 yes they should 17:35:48 <|amethyst> %git :/Autopickup ammo 17:35:48 07SamB * 0.13-a0-733-g4508735: Autopickup ammo used by starting launchers/spells. 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=450873502215 17:36:05 I'm not sure we shouldn't revert arrows for tmut though 17:36:13 SE could be rethemed as something non-elf with some unique property and i think it'd be filling a role but as-is they might as well go, i haven't heard any ideas for improving them 17:36:50 <|amethyst> I did suggest removing antitraining penalties, but that could just as well go to something else 17:36:58 they have a better niche than two of the races just added, that is for sure 17:37:06 SamB: as a Tm i always want to auto-pickup arrows, at least to begin with 17:37:14 i tend to pick up all the clubs as well 17:37:19 <|amethyst> SamB: I think it should be something you can disable 17:37:30 <|amethyst> SamB: I mean, in your config 17:37:36 i would like my config's autopickup settings to always do what i've set them to, yes 17:37:43 |amethyst: you want to move this stuff to the default configuration somehow? 17:38:05 <|amethyst> SamB: if it could be done as an autopickup_exception that would be great 17:38:11 |amethyst: I assume it could 17:38:19 fr: rename grotesk to Gortusk 17:38:25 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:38:33 <|amethyst> rename it to Sans Serif 17:38:33 Then give them a gore attack 17:39:18 jack of all elements sounds pretty neat 17:39:30 |amethyst: and if we still stored the defaults in a text file I would probably actually implement that ;-P 17:39:58 <|amethyst> SamB: dat/defaults/autopickup_exceptions.txt 17:40:10 -!- drag0n_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:40:14 oh, is that how it works 17:40:30 <|amethyst> well, some basic stuff is set in initfile.cc 17:41:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 17:41:15 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:43 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 17:42:45 <|amethyst> btw, Gr holiness is kind of strange now 17:42:52 <|amethyst> %git :/artificial 17:42:52 07dolorous * 0.13-a0-1297-g7c14b23: Mark grotesks as artificial beings (prohibiting their being Death Knights). 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c14b2386103 17:43:05 <|amethyst> but they're still MH_NATURAL so susceptible to blowguns etc 17:43:25 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:44:17 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:21 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:24 Grunt: i actually always read my messages, via highlight 17:44:25 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 17:44:25 Eronarn: You have 79 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:44:32 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:44:32 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:50 i hope to get a chance to try out a lorc... 17:45:59 maybe i'll convince my crawl-playing coworkers to 17:47:55 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:48:21 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1306-gdaa7449: Disable the staff of Wucad Mu for Djinn 10(51 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=daa7449409b5 17:48:21 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1307-g98b7afd: Don't disguise forest drakes as giant newts 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98b7afdc1b1c 17:49:34 forest drakes? :o 17:49:38 but what will become of forest wyrms :( 17:49:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:13 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:50:34 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55:18 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:57:33 Eronarn: nothing, unless "someone" fixes them... 17:59:45 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:00:04 -!- newbi has quit [Client Quit] 18:02:37 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:17 pro tip: if you want to read interesting segfaults, echo 1 >/proc/sys/kernel/core_uses_pid or the cores will be overwritten by some boring DNGN_UNSEEN crash from another core 18:04:55 SamB: as the gcc/gdb guy, do you have any ideas why do I get stack backtraces as bad as the one in http://sprunge.us/ORML ? 18:05:43 * SamB just tried to cat that URL 18:06:45 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:07:02 gdb would provide something useful, had I the core file 18:07:12 yeah :-( 18:07:43 the previous try, I had no ulimit -c set 18:09:16 I've no idea why backtrace() is being so unhelpful 18:10:38 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:12:40 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:12:54 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 18:13:20 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 18:13:38 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:14:56 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:24 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 18:16:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:20 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:33 -!- clinew is now known as frostsnow 18:18:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:09 -!- Guest81510 is now known as magicpoints 18:20:46 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:21:46 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:22:02 forest draconian: gets leaf breath and resist plant at XL7, treeform ability at xl14 18:23:01 -!- Demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:23:11 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:24 atomicthumbs: <3 18:30:12 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 18:31:13 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:25 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 18:32:46 atomicthumbs: I love this idea 18:34:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:35:21 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:17 <|amethyst> kilobyte: does gnueabihf do some kind of stack-switching in signal handlers? 18:36:34 |amethyst: no idea :( 18:36:44 <|amethyst> I don't know the architecture at all 18:38:39 Djinns sound fun 18:39:05 |amethyst: isn't that called sigaltstack 18:40:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:41:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:43:18 <|amethyst> "Some non-GNU debuggers on some machines may get confused if you examine a stack trace while a handler that uses the signal stack is running." 18:43:46 <|amethyst> but you have to explicitly enable it don't you? 18:44:02 I believe someone has to, yes 18:44:09 but I could be wrong 18:44:36 -!- Eldarby has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:47:22 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:48:00 <|amethyst> kilobyte: http://communities.mentor.com/community/cs/archives/arm-gnu/msg02514.html 18:48:32 <|amethyst> kilobyte: sorry for a non-canonical link, it was the first one I came across 18:48:44 <|amethyst> says it should have been fixed 4 years ago 18:48:59 password reset by imbaray 18:49:10 here comes da bomb 18:49:18 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1308-g2e2439c: Remove Superfluous Elves. 10(21 minutes ago, 2 files, 19+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2e2439c1c302 18:49:18 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1309-gefe5f0c: Manual updates through the wiki. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 58+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=efe5f0c83f29 18:49:30 <|amethyst> kilobyte: -mapcs-frame maybe? 18:49:42 <|amethyst> kilobyte: don't know if libc would need to be compiled with that too, though 18:50:50 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:51:38 |amethyst: well, is it the frame BEFORE the SIGSEGV happened that was confusing to backtrace(), or was it the last frame listed ? 18:53:04 hmm, what else race to remove? Let's check the list... 18:53:07 !greatplayer 18:53:11 Unwon species for kilobyte: Deep Elf, Demigod, Djinni, Grotesk, Halfling, Minotaur, Naga, Sludge Elf, Tengu 18:53:12 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:53:17 haha 18:53:28 <|amethyst> SamB: I don't know... if the latter, then libc would need to be changed 18:53:29 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:31 sounds like a totally legit way to decide this 18:53:34 agreed 18:53:42 what are we deciding 18:53:45 wait, I got no Minotaur?!? 18:53:53 remove minotaur clearly 18:54:12 kilobyte: obviously Djinni and Grotest 18:54:18 !won kilobyte LO 18:54:19 kilobyte (LO) has not won in 47 games. 18:54:37 !won kilobyte lava_orc 18:54:38 kilobyte (lava_orc) has not won in 47 games. 18:54:39 !won SamB Dj 18:54:40 No keyword 'Dj' 18:54:48 !won SamB djinni 18:54:48 No keyword 'djinni' 18:54:57 !won SamB crace=djinni 18:54:58 kilobyte: I'm just wondering why !greatplayer didn't list that 18:54:58 No games for SamB (crace=djinni). 18:55:03 !greatplayer 18:55:07 Unwon species for SamB: Centaur, Deep Dwarf, Deep Elf, Demigod, Demonspawn, Djinni, Draconian, Felid, Ghoul, Grotesk, Halfling, High Elf, Hill Orc, Human, Kobold, Merfolk, Minotaur, Mummy, Naga, Octopode, Ogre, Sludge Elf, Spriggan, Tengu, Troll, Vampire 18:55:19 !greatplayer elliptic 18:55:23 Unwon species for elliptic: Djinni, Grotesk 18:55:24 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 18:55:40 !def !greatplayer 18:55:44 ah, the previous test run 18:55:48 !cmd !greatplayer 18:55:49 Command: !greatplayer => =great crace ${1:-.} species greatplayer playable:sp 18:56:21 !kw Dj 18:56:22 No keyword 'Dj' 18:56:27 !kw LO 18:56:28 Built-in: LO => crace=LO 18:56:41 why isn't Dj built in ... 18:56:58 oh, the previous run? 18:57:01 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:14 !kw Dj crace=Dj 18:57:15 Defined keyword: dj => crace=Dj 18:57:41 !kw Dj 18:57:42 Keyword: dj => crace=Dj 18:58:09 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:09 !kw Gr 18:58:09 No keyword 'Gr' 18:58:19 !kw Gr crace=Gr 18:58:20 Defined keyword: gr => crace=Gr 18:58:59 !cmd =great 18:58:59 Command: =great => !lg * junk:"$1 $2 $3 $4" $* s=$1 o=-$1 / won @$2 format:"${.}" title:"Unwon $3 for $name" stub:"$name is a $4!" ?:N=0 18:59:28 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 19:01:07 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:26 MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 19:02:31 I HAVE SEEN THE END OF THE ELVES 19:02:37 Now what 19:03:30 !greatplayer 19:03:34 Unwon species for atomicthumbs: Centaur, Deep Dwarf, Deep Elf, Demigod, Demonspawn, Djinni, Draconian, Felid, Ghoul, Grotesk, Halfling, High Elf, Hill Orc, Human, Kobold, Merfolk, Minotaur, Mummy, Naga, Octopode, Ogre, Sludge Elf, Spriggan, Tengu, Troll, Vampire 19:03:35 -!- twelwe has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:03:48 yep that's all of 'em 19:03:56 NOPE (L20 HuFi) ASSERT(!aimed_at_feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 667 failed. (Vaults:3) 19:04:07 rip sludge elves 19:04:12 rip 19:04:29 *plays bagpipes while the sludge elves are shot into space* 19:04:52 space elves 19:04:55 |amethyst: okay, how do I know which kind of Hu is which in autopickup_exceptions.txt anyway ... 19:05:20 Now let's off halflings while no one is looking 19:05:47 maybe ko can share some ha apts 19:06:08 sludge elves got unmade? 19:06:28 dust to dust, sludge to sludge 19:06:43 but now who will be the race that focuses on 19:06:45 um 19:06:50 whatever the hell sludge elves focused on 19:06:52 everything 19:06:55 lol 19:06:58 subtle flavor 19:06:59 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:01 "being a fun merfolk" apparently 19:07:03 !messages 19:07:04 (1/1) mumra said (9h 11m 46s ago): intrinsic boulder form? 19:07:17 if we make one of the new species a dwarf then we can have two each of the three main species groups 19:07:21 i'm thinking Grotesque Dwarf 19:07:29 though Dwarfinni has its appeal also 19:08:13 so, according to the tavern, Grotesks are now non-living? 19:08:19 -!- Silurio has quit [Client Quit] 19:08:39 "gwar" 19:08:51 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:08:55 did anyone ever explain that really 19:09:01 Has the removal gone into trunk yet? 19:09:21 %git HEAD~2 19:09:22 07MarvinPA * 0.13-a0-1307-g98b7afd: Don't disguise forest drakes as giant newts 10(84 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98b7afdc1b1c 19:09:29 %git master~2 19:09:29 07MarvinPA * 0.13-a0-1307-g98b7afd: Don't disguise forest drakes as giant newts 10(84 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98b7afdc1b1c 19:09:38 %git master~3 19:09:38 07MarvinPA * 0.13-a0-1306-gdaa7449: Disable the staff of Wucad Mu for Djinn 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 8+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=daa7449409b5 19:09:41 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:09:51 can djinn cast regen? 19:09:53 %git origin/master~2 19:09:53 Could not find commit origin/master~2 (git returned 128) 19:09:55 or wear rings thereof? 19:10:07 grotesks are now nonliving, yeah 19:10:10 %git origin/master~1 19:10:10 Could not find commit origin/master~1 (git returned 128) 19:10:13 %git master~1 19:10:13 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-1308-g2e2439c: Remove Superfluous Elves. 10(41 minutes ago, 2 files, 19+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2e2439c1c302 19:10:23 Lightli: ^ 19:10:25 nicolae-: I can't find the commit 19:10:31 VICTORY 19:10:39 the superfluous elves will form a reserve, to be used as needed 19:10:59 oh thank god. Sludge Elves are dead. 19:11:04 http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=7c14b2386103c09f92faed258e801f296bde743d 19:11:04 i've got an idea 19:11:10 hall of dead species full level entry vault 19:11:13 at this rate 19:11:20 now rename high elves to sidhe 19:11:31 there isn't even a separate monster for sludge elves though 19:11:35 and deep elves to deep orcs 19:11:43 elficide 19:11:44 I guess we need to make one 19:12:00 ontoclasm: I voted against elficide already 19:12:30 first they came for the elves 19:12:33 since then PCs couldn't get the racial bonus on elvish gear 19:12:36 ever 19:13:26 I don't see any point of yred restricting grotesks 19:13:58 they're still US_ALIVE 19:14:19 %git 7c14b2386103c09f92faed258e801f296bde743d 19:14:19 07dolorous * 0.13-a0-1297-g7c14b23: Mark grotesks as artificial beings (prohibiting their being Death Knights). 10(6 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c14b2386103 19:14:19 US_ALIVE is for undeadness, not for unlivingness 19:14:29 kilobyte: that's crazy 19:14:29 still, dolorous doesn't know your intent 19:14:31 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:11 kilobyte: they're described as 'Made of living stone' 19:15:12 why didn't we just reclassify gargoyles 19:15:18 mumra: so you said you know what's wrong with the Tomb:1 bug 19:15:23 to also be that way 19:15:31 mumra: it's rather urgent to fix, before the servers rebuild 19:15:32 sludge elf removal makes me sad :( they're a cool race 19:15:38 was there some gameplay reason we couldn't do that 19:15:45 SamB: if we do that to gargoyles we can just rename grotesk to gargoyle. 19:15:55 bh: yeah, what I meant 19:16:03 Eronarn: Sludge Elves or Lava Orcs. You can only save one. 19:16:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:16:36 bh: i choose death 19:16:36 I'm just expecting there to have been a reason why you didn't do this seeminly-obvious thing 19:16:46 Don't panic, the choice was already made for you 19:16:49 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:13 SamB: I thought that non-livingness entailed unbreathing and hungerless. 19:17:27 fires breathe and eat 19:17:28 The important part is this: How is Something Awful handling the news 19:17:42 farewell SE 19:17:43 So do volcanic vents 19:17:43 i bet they're freaking out over lorcs 19:17:48 I mean why can't gargoyles be ALIVE 19:17:57 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 19:18:09 in both senses 19:18:16 they could be a silicon-based life form 19:18:35 fr: off every elf, dwarf, and orc species 19:18:45 lava yak 19:19:01 Eornarn: I want this to happen in the actual gaame no joke 19:19:05 random races, random gods. 19:19:22 Lightli: Tolkien hate? 19:19:23 lava elephants would make more sense because they could be led by a hellephant 19:19:26 bh: I'm joking 19:19:44 -!- noppa354 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:19:48 SamB: renaming them should be trivial. 19:19:59 gargoyle (159) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 13-31 | AC/EV: 18/6 | Dam: 10, 6, 6 | 11non-living, 10doors, fly | Res: 06magic(32), 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 142 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 19:19:59 %??gargoyle 19:20:06 naga (03N) | Spd: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 5 | HP: 17-40 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 17, 303(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 109 | Sp: poison splash (d10) | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 19:20:06 %??naga 19:21:24 so if we rename them, who will clean up sequell? anyone? 19:23:28 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:15 what does that involve? 19:26:44 it probably doesn't need to happen ... 19:27:23 but basically it would involve waiting for all games to upgrade and then updating all milestone/game entries for grotesque to use the new name ... 19:27:54 what's the hivemind reaction to the new races anyhow 19:27:59 sed -i '' -e'/GROTESK/GARGOYLE/' *.{cc,h} should pretty much do it 19:28:10 along with a few variants of that and cleaning up the descript files 19:28:15 eronarn: i think it's mostly "they seem cool" 19:28:32 sounds like an incomplete summary 19:28:38 seems the opposite actually 19:28:56 perhaps, i don't pay attention much 19:29:00 since I've definitely seen comments along the lines of "this is broken, I don't have high hopes for this, etc" 19:29:18 -!- tswett has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:21 "crawl'em" 19:29:26 haha 19:29:38 Turns out the hivemind can't agree on anything 19:29:39 can djinn wield lightsabers?? 19:29:46 "it's not what I'm used to, it must be horribly broken" 19:29:52 SwissStopwatch: of course. 19:29:58 SwissStopwatch: if we had any, yeah 19:29:59 We just don't have lightsabres in crawl. 19:30:00 well Djinn actually -is- super broken in the initial incarnation 19:30:07 they're just SBl/LBl, right? 19:30:07 for certain things 19:30:12 geekosaur: not really 19:30:17 We all thought djinn were broken as hell at first in every way ever, now we know it's just broken in one specific way 19:30:20 it doesn't work like that for new features 19:30:25 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:30:30 it works like that for changes to existing things 19:30:30 what's the one specific way 19:30:32 like a lot of the people who comment on these things actually do have some sense for crawl balance 19:31:01 And as the only person here who's won a djinn so far, I actually know what I'm talking about 19:31:12 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 19:31:17 That's probably not a very good criteria 19:31:21 if I had to guess 19:31:23 bh: anyway go ahead and make them not-unliving again ... 19:31:24 Lightli: how are they broken? 19:31:38 or non-artificial or whatever 19:31:38 bh: Combination of Ely and their lack of hunger 19:31:54 -!- CKyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:06 SamB: I don't really care if they can't worship Yred. I'm going to rename them though. 19:32:06 well there are several other things that got disabled (either permanently or until fixes can be devised? idk) 19:32:13 it's nt just that one thing 19:32:18 That just happens to be the one thing you played 19:32:35 It's by far the most broken aspect. 19:32:39 it does seem like djinni have a lot of spoilery/fiddly bits to deal with various conflicts from having no food and combined hp/mp 19:33:06 It's probably important to see how the "average" djinn combo plays too, and not just the elite broken combos 19:33:09 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:34:39 Ely is a god of healing not of magic, so having her be not so good at fixing magical essence is easy to argue for 19:34:47 same as other proposed solutions 19:34:47 bh: we'll have to change the description for the monster though 19:34:55 right now it says it's a statue 19:35:03 not that it LOOKS like one, but that it is 19:35:11 I'd want to hear about Vehumet/Sif/Makhleb first, I'm more afraid of that 19:35:18 and that it's been *brought* to life 19:35:44 seems pretty reasonable that ely can't heal djinn 19:35:45 well probably if the Vehumet/Makhleb interactions are broken 19:35:47 they aren't made of meat 19:35:56 then that's just a problem with the essence mechanic in general 19:36:14 so ely can't heal gargoyles either then? 19:36:18 since they're made of stone ... 19:36:25 which is, last I checked, not meat 19:36:34 actually, biological, stone is a kind of meat 19:36:37 bh: you can see what impressions I got in the manual 19:36:39 biologically* 19:36:53 stone has a biology 19:36:54 bh: then rewrite that entry from scratch as totally wrong :p 19:36:54 ? 19:37:00 well, I guess gargoyles will 19:37:20 bh: there's also metal gargoyles and molten gargoyles to redescribe 19:37:46 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:37:52 lava gargoyles! 19:38:14 lava nomes 19:38:20 why didn't nomes get in this time, anyhow 19:38:22 om nom nom 19:38:29 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:34 Eronarn: 'cause they suck? 19:38:51 why did lava orcs get i 19:38:57 because they suck LAVA 19:39:02 which is awesome 19:39:21 we should probably add corpses for lava fish and stuff to explain what lorcs eat 19:39:40 nomes? how many different races does eronarn have coming in? :P 19:40:06 at last count eronarn has eleven species 19:40:06 kilobyte: ... How about I just stick a rename? 19:40:22 Zannick: nomes are someone else's madcap tomfoolery 19:40:24 Eronarn: also potion of lava 19:40:38 pre-IDed and comes in a stone bottle 19:41:25 I thought jesters had a monopoly on madcaps 19:42:04 they're pretty hard to come by underlava 19:42:30 bh: folks querying Sequell shouldn't really care about a bunch of non-wins 19:42:40 !lg * won crace=gr 19:42:41 No games for * (won crace=gr). 19:42:44 !lg * won crace=grotesk 19:42:45 No games for * (won crace=grotesk). 19:43:00 !hs * crace=grotesk 19:43:01 383. XxWeEdMaN420xX the Wrestler (L24 GrMo), worshipper of Okawaru, hit from afar by a stone giant (large rock) on D:24 (minmay_expanding_squares) on 2013-05-30 14:55:10, with 433708 points after 71575 turns and 2:20:07. 19:43:14 looks like someone really... rocked his world 19:43:19 i have a question, apropos of very little. how come there aren't really many species that are terrible at invoc or evoc and good at the other. it seems weird. 19:43:21 what a stone cold death 19:43:36 bh: the sequell thing is not a reason to avoid renaming, certainly 19:43:51 it won't get any easier by waiting, either 19:44:03 I'm on it 19:44:05 heck, we had kenku renamed, with quite a bunch of wins 19:44:21 kilobyte: was it just renamed or did it get revamped too? 19:44:22 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:34 plain rename with no meaningful changes 19:44:42 huh 19:44:53 they got a few tweaks later but i don't think it was at the same time as the rename 19:44:54 so yeah, that's good precedent for "who cares" 19:45:08 "gargoyle" is also more familiar than "grotesk" 19:45:20 I agree with the rename, instead of bad adherence to a D&D race we got a widespread myth 19:45:53 nicolae-: I agree entirely. I should have resolved the naming before merging 19:45:55 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-1310-g8146ad5: Grotesk -> Gargoyle 10(19 minutes ago, 14 files, 73+ 73-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8146ad523994 19:45:57 bh: and we can change the descriptions in a later commit I guess too 19:46:20 I mean the monster ones 19:46:29 but I guess it's a bit late for me to say that now 19:47:05 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:39 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 19:48:13 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:49:40 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1311-g4b22bb5: Betterer formatting of Gargoyle entries in tables. 10(42 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b22bb5de1bc 19:49:52 no more jokes about Akzidenz :( 19:50:21 thanks kilo. That commit was almost entirely blind sedding 19:51:50 POSSIBLYLAINIW the Farming Sorcerer (L27 DjFE) (Zig:16) 19:52:05 hrm, why do people keep making bad changes to fonts? 19:52:14 hippyrobin the Faith Healer (L9 DjHe) (D:9) 19:52:15 Akzidenz Grotesk > Helvetica > Arial 19:52:19 does Dj + Ely still work? 19:52:35 even though they're nearly identical 19:52:37 copyrights 19:52:44 kilobyte: Bembo is where it's at 19:52:51 !lm * type=crash -log -2 19:52:52 4853. POSSIBLYLAINIW, XL27 DjFE, T:264929 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/POSSIBLYLAINIW/crash-POSSIBLYLAINIW-20130531-005149.txt 19:52:52 !lm * type=crash -log -1 19:52:53 4854. hippyrobin, XL9 DjHe, T:13667 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/hippyrobin/crash-hippyrobin-20130531-005213.txt 19:53:03 geekosaur: faces aren't subject to copyright. The actual implementation is 19:53:41 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:53:55 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:54:05 I'm actually referring to the fact that Arial was part of the push by Apple and Microsoft years back to break Adobe's hold on scalable fonts 19:54:05 hey WalkerBoh 19:54:15 hi brendan 19:54:26 nice work on grotesk =) 19:54:31 why would anyone need arial when we have Comic Sans 19:54:35 WalkerBoh: what else can I steal to make them cooler? (I just renamed them to Gargoyles) 19:54:40 !abyss nicolae- 19:54:41 bh casts a spell. nicolae- is devoured by a tear in reality! 19:54:44 oh ha 19:54:46 I suspect the visible differences between Arial and Hellvetica were just so Adobe couldn't claim that they broke the encryption of Type 1 fonts to get Arial from Helvetica 19:55:10 bh: short-term flight at level somethingorother 19:55:13 Lightli: how do I best scum Dj Healer? 19:55:16 or maybe not 19:55:25 bh: right now i'm working on the god proposal, but i don't know if anything else really fits for gargoyles 19:55:39 -!- tswett has quit [Changing host] 19:55:40 nicolae-: I was thinking of that, but I thought it might intrude too much on tengus. Besides, they're really bad at air 19:56:02 that's why i said short term, they can only flap weakly for a couple tiles 19:56:06 they aren't cool enough as is with their self-petrify? 19:56:29 well nobody seems to have figured out what self-petrify is useful for yet 19:56:40 there is that 19:56:45 maybe they regenerate faster in self-petrify mode 19:56:45 so that seems like the thing to adjust if anything needs adjust 19:56:46 ing 19:56:48 my original idea was an attack/AC boost followed by petrification 19:56:49 like when snails go into their shells 19:57:10 WalkerBoh: berserk? :) 19:57:22 yeah that's the downside, it's similar 19:57:30 really it's more like statue form though 19:57:51 in terms of might + AC 19:57:56 bh: You win. 19:57:58 <|amethyst> geekosaur: Adobe? 19:58:06 Lightli: I just spam healing? 19:58:08 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:15 yup 19:58:29 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:58:45 <|amethyst> geekosaur: Linotype would presumably be the company to worry about 19:58:53 bh: the only other idea i had that might work for gargoyles is "meld into dungeon" 19:59:11 before Truetype, the only way to get scalable fonts on a computer was Adobe Type 1 fonts and Adobe Type Manager 19:59:11 which i had envisioned as you become invincible (can't take damage), but you can't move 19:59:16 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:59:18 WalkerBoh: which is very nome 19:59:19 like, you can cast and attack and whatever, but not move around 19:59:25 nome? 19:59:28 <|amethyst> geekosaur: Arial is much older than TrueType 19:59:36 perhaps gargoyles get an evokable cause fear, since they're horrifying statues made to ward off evil 19:59:43 ontoclasm: if we allowed for weapon/shield/helmet offsets to differ between races, it'd possible to have tiles differ by something more than colour shade 19:59:43 at some high level 20:00:01 <|amethyst> geekosaur: thought I'm sure not paying Adobe license fees for PS was why Microsoft decided to use Arial 20:00:07 nicolae-: gargoyles can't even ward off pigeons 20:00:11 <|amethyst> s/thought/though/ 20:00:15 maybe gargoyles LIKE pigeons 20:00:32 <|amethyst> s/Arial/Truetype/ 20:00:40 nicolae-: would you like flying rats who shit on you? 20:00:54 it's like sunscreen 20:01:01 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:22 i dunno, man, i'm not a gargoyle 20:01:24 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 20:01:42 do you have a citation for Arial being pre-TrueType? I understand it to be a hybrid of Monotype Grotesque reshaped to be closer to Helvetica, and specifically designed as part of the Truetype proposal 20:01:52 -!- tswett has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:01:58 -!- Sealero has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:02:06 <|amethyst> geekosaur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial#History 20:02:39 <|amethyst> geekosaur: says they made Arial in ~1982 for the IBM 3800-3 printer 20:02:50 interestingly that contradicts the preceding section which calls that font Grotesqte 20:02:53 *Grotesque 20:03:09 (which is more in line with what I understood to be the history) 20:03:36 Lightli: what about mindless enemies? 20:03:52 hm, crazy thought: i've noticed a handful of suggestions for player species that shift form, like a werewolf, what if when gargoyles self-petrified, they were shifting into a more rocklike form, like statue form except Different, somehow, and then they shift back 20:03:52 <|amethyst> geekosaur: Monotype Grotesque dates to 1926 according to wikipedia 20:03:53 kilobyte: main problem is body armour tiles 20:03:56 kill them with a weapon 20:04:11 which should really come in at least "med" and "large" forms 20:04:50 In tiles, spell icons for Djinni are always greyed out. by nicolae 20:05:25 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:05:47 pfcuttle the Magician (L6 DEFE) (D:4) 20:06:45 <|amethyst> !lm pfcuttle crash -log 20:06:46 1. pfcuttle, XL6 DEFE, T:2675 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/pfcuttle/crash-pfcuttle-20130531-010546.txt 20:08:03 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:48 -!- tswett__ is now known as tswett 20:08:58 -!- JollyNigra has quit [Quit: [16:21] Still, they'll gut a Gnome without thinking about because fuck Garl Glittergold] 20:10:28 <|amethyst> hm, CAO webtiles seems wedged 20:10:40 Webtiles server stopped. 20:11:29 Webtiles server started. 20:12:02 <|amethyst> odd, there was nothing at all in the logs 20:13:28 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:14:16 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1312-gdb045d7: Djinn: disable food-based mutations. 10(62 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=db045d7a8e8d 20:16:41 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1313-g72b3ab3: Djinn: ... including Jiyva's one. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=72b3ab37f0fb 20:17:40 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:37 kilobyte: MUT_FOOD_JELLY was removed 20:18:49 or doesn't get given out any more rather 20:18:56 -!- bhaak has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:19:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:20:09 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:20 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1314-gb3858c3: Revert "Djinn: ... including Jiyva's one." 10(89 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b3858c32bcaa 20:21:45 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:22:02 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:26 um. Should Maurice steal while neutral? 20:23:09 from the PC? probably not ... 20:26:25 Maurice steals while pacified by brendan 20:30:09 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Client Quit] 20:31:28 he can still attack, though 20:32:39 okay, so djinn fighters are viable but none of the weapon choices are? 20:33:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:47 kilobyte: sure, but it really sucks to have your stuff stolen with no chance to get it back 20:35:27 SamB: i noticed the same thing about gargoyle fighters 20:35:34 despite their +1 maces aptitude, all the options were grayed out 20:36:07 kilobyte, bh: so are they viable or not? 20:36:09 WalkerBoh: yeah. That bit I don't get. Maybe from bad fighting? 20:36:31 No stairway back from Shoals to Lair by Avigdore 20:36:36 SamB: they're probably playable as fighters, but you wouldn't want to 20:36:39 i really don't know how the game decides what's viable or not bh, it's not manually set? 20:36:44 <|amethyst> it's manual 20:36:47 yep. 20:36:55 <|amethyst> see weapon_restriction 20:37:01 yeah, so gargoyles should probably have maces be viable 20:37:19 how about djinn 20:37:37 <|amethyst> SamB: probably lbl, pla, sta 20:37:49 <|amethyst> SamB: maybe also mf (+0) 20:40:21 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:41:44 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:41:51 should the message for djinn going up and down stairs include the verb "climb" 20:42:03 yeah how exactly do they move? 20:42:05 nicolae-: patch it 20:42:07 WalkerBoh: hovering 20:42:11 ah okay 20:42:20 climbing means gaining altitude doesn't it 20:42:29 so shouldn't it be something else for going down 20:42:44 float seems best i guess 20:42:53 also i don't know how to make a patch : 20:42:53 :( 20:43:18 you can climb downstairs, i think 20:43:46 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:43:50 but float is better, climbing implies contact 20:44:11 <|amethyst> nicolae-: make and switch to branch (git checkout -b mystuff), edit, git add -u, git commit, type a message, git format-patch master 20:44:21 <|amethyst> you ascend. 20:44:23 <|amethyst> you descend. 20:44:38 you condescend. 20:44:57 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1315-g4c9b362: Purge unused descs for lava orc professionals. 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4c9b362b81e0 20:44:57 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1316-g707fcf7: Brace fixes. 10(9 minutes ago, 6 files, 6+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=707fcf7da8f5 20:44:57 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1317-gc3093fb: Djinn: weapon recommendations. 10(43 seconds ago, 1 file, 11+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3093fb99530 20:44:59 -!- TW__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:45:03 nicolae-: normally you'd want to add "test changes" in there somewhere 20:45:18 probably before commit 20:45:35 <|amethyst> eh, you can always commit --amend as long as you haven't pushed anything yet :) 20:45:38 <|amethyst> but yes 20:46:06 noted! 20:46:30 what is the dark magenta thing at the end of the Essence bar 20:47:52 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:48:25 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:48:26 -!- BonSequitur has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:02 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1318-gb05bf95: Weapons recommendations for Grotesks. 10(50 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b05bf95579ee 20:49:05 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:29 shouldn't that be Gargoyles now? 20:49:35 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:50:39 -!- Jevouse has quit [] 20:50:52 NOPE (L22 HuFi) ASSERT(!aimed_at_feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 667 failed. (Shoals:5) 20:51:02 <|amethyst> that's the same one we saw last night 20:51:07 <|amethyst> I bet 20:51:09 <|amethyst> gusts 20:51:16 <|amethyst> !lm NOPE crash -log 20:51:17 2. NOPE, XL22 HuFi, T:68724 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/NOPE/crash-NOPE-20130531-015051.txt 20:51:25 <|amethyst> yes 20:51:54 <|amethyst> DracoOmega was saying the wind blast didn't travel at all, but wasn't sure why 20:53:31 <|amethyst> I mean, had the same start and end point 20:54:31 -!- nmf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:55:05 <|amethyst> um 20:55:14 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:25 <|amethyst> I just tried a similar situation, inside a Shoals:5 hut 20:55:40 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: Arivia] 20:55:42 <|amethyst> I didn't get a crash, but most of the monsters were outside the (closed) hut when I was done 20:56:59 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:30 <|amethyst> outside the hut, but they didn't even wake up 21:01:06 -!- drage has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 21:01:07 <|amethyst> I wonder if the crash is because of a submerged air elemental 21:01:35 -!- repent has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:01:35 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun=~source_==_target -2 21:01:36 37/38. [2013-05-31 00:03:55] NOPE the Impaler (L20 HuFi) ASSERT(!aimed at feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 667 failed on turn 57925. (Vaults:3) 21:01:38 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun=~source_==_target -3 21:01:39 36/38. [2013-05-30 19:16:00] nmf the Slayer (L22 DsBe) ASSERT(!aimed at feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 667 failed on turn 62656. (D:27) 21:01:41 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun=~source_==_target -4 21:01:42 35/38. [2013-05-30 07:55:12] bmfx the Acrobat (L26 KoAM) ASSERT(!aimed at feet || source == target) in 'beam.cc' at line 667 failed on turn 75241. (Vaults:5) 21:04:21 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:05:06 -!- bhaak has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:05:14 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 21:06:13 killed by dracoomega 21:06:53 <|amethyst> just a few lines earlier is if (target == source) { ... aimed_at_feet = true; ... } 21:07:46 <|amethyst> the only way the assert could be triggered is if aimed_at_feet was somehow set to true despite target != source 21:09:44 <|amethyst> but I see nothing else that could possibly set it to true 21:10:05 <|amethyst> unless a beam is being reused 21:10:19 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 21:11:16 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:12:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:12:47 <|amethyst> oh, it is 21:18:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:23:59 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:24:57 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:17 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:23 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1319-g63bfc31: Add more brace fixes. 10(45 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=63bfc3114176 21:25:51 -!- Lightli has quit [Client Quit] 21:26:11 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:17 > 21:33:59 -!- Shade_Tornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:17 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:37:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:57 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:38:03 -!- doome has quit [] 21:39:29 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:39:36 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:39:48 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1320-g8311199: Don't wind blast things on the agent's square. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=831119913d42 21:40:18 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:41:31 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:43:13 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:45:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:00 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:48:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:45 -!- sym has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:49:56 Amulet leaks info by jejorda2 21:49:59 -!- rocnal has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:50:08 Lightli: we should make a Djinn Healer bot 21:50:17 I bet it would wreck HOBe bot 21:50:33 -!- nCrazed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:51:36 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:53:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:18 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1321-gd50423f: Don't nuke extra branch exits twice (#7113). 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d50423f95176 21:54:14 bh: by the time it got made, djhe will probably have been nerfed 21:55:29 all we need is a heal/greater heal macro 21:58:13 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 21:58:40 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:59:48 Dixlet: Welcome to Crawl, now without SE 21:59:54 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:17 woo 22:00:24 now to move on to the rest of the races 22:03:45 We have a net gain of 2 races though 22:04:00 And a new branch. 22:05:59 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:14 -!- Vbitz has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:10:41 oh dang i didn't hear about the new branch 22:10:53 <|amethyst> ??forest 22:10:54 forest[1/3]: A new branch in trunk! Has all the spriggan monsters, including new types enchanters and assassins, tengus of all types, and Satyrs (hexes+ranged combat). Only one layout so far. 22:11:09 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:11:18 oh yeah i should've been paying attention to the talk on that 22:11:37 Yeah, we branched into Forest. 22:11:38 <_< 22:11:52 ba-dum-tsh 22:12:13 i've hung around here a lot but never actually gotten involved with dev work 22:12:19 whoa 22:12:20 what's the project's primary language? 22:12:24 c++ 22:12:32 java for the webtiles bits 22:12:33 Some Lua knowledge helps too, though. 22:12:49 i'm mostly java fluent 22:12:57 and i figure webtiles wants maintainers 22:13:11 <|amethyst> err 22:13:14 <|amethyst> no java 22:13:18 <|amethyst> javascript 22:13:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:38 man whatever they are the same (i don't know anything about either of them) 22:13:48 oh dang not familiar to me 22:13:53 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:56 Java:C++::Javascript:Lisp 22:13:59 -!- Pepe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:11 <|amethyst> C++ for most of the game itself, javascript for the webtiles client-side part, python for the webtiles server, and Lua for scripting vaults etc 22:14:12 i... am aware that lisp exists! 22:14:58 i'm terrified of the js but i wouldn't mind digging in elsewhere 22:15:07 healthy amount of issues all around? 22:15:29 <|amethyst> indeed :) 22:15:34 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:06 i think i'll see what i can do then 22:16:19 once i settle into my new full-time work soon 22:17:01 patches need to be approved by someone with senior status? 22:18:59 Patches get approved by whoever wants to commit them, pretty much <_< 22:19:02 if its something small or uncontroversial just submit it to the bug tracker, and feel free to poke someone in this channel. anyone with +v here has commit access 22:19:33 if its something more significant it helps to talk about design stuff first 22:20:30 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:21:52 and work on a branch 22:22:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:23:06 yeah not tryna mess trunk up for you too quickly haha 22:23:38 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 22:23:40 it's cool, we have a bot named dol who does regression testing. He's really smart 22:24:16 so smart he's not even in the channel 22:24:38 don't mind that kind of framework 22:24:50 he's at some higher plane of existence, and communicates mainly through commit messages 22:24:54 occasionally from the future... 22:25:11 we really ought to make Chei tell us exactly how far in the future ... 22:25:32 how is this project on automated testing? 22:25:40 awful. 22:25:41 pretty bad, really 22:25:55 We have no unit tests, no integration tests, no regression tests. 22:25:58 some of our players are addicted enough that they seem automated sometimes 22:26:00 does that count? 22:26:07 yeah i think that works 22:26:18 trunk is always getting tested for functionality 22:26:22 comprehensively 22:27:25 it seems like the error rate is pretty good regardless though 22:27:32 but i haven't dug into the tracker yet 22:28:12 every crash gets reported on this channel 22:28:13 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:42 the codebase is around 15 years old. It's had a bit of testing 22:29:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:38 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:25 <|amethyst> ??epic bugs 22:30:26 epic bugs[1/9]: if (you.religion = GOD_XOM) 22:30:29 <|amethyst> ??epic bugs[$] 22:30:29 epic bugs[9/9]: DracoOmega * 0.13-a0-338-gd5b758e: Fix all monster attack flavours inflicting 0 damage 22:30:55 haha 22:31:33 that one being notable because it was apparently around for a year without anybody noticing... 22:31:56 which is odd for something that makes many dangerous monsters incredibly nonlethal 22:32:08 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:32:29 probably not a lot of pressure for players to report it 22:32:36 well 22:32:45 it wasn't necessarily helpful for players 22:32:48 <|amethyst> it nerfed one of the summoner starting spells 22:32:52 <|amethyst> (SIB) 22:32:57 I played a MuIE game relying heavily on ice beast 22:33:00 without noticing this bug 22:33:17 Including during a very long fight with Fannar, who also has that spell 22:33:17 oh yeah that can be painful 22:34:06 * Grunt looks around shiftily. 22:34:21 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1322-gd65eeb8: Forest zig levels. 10(73 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d65eeb8e693c 22:34:28 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34:39 <|amethyst> hm 22:35:22 Are alarm traps supposed to have a different message when something triggers them in your LOS? 22:37:18 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:40:15 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:42:20 Nivim: different from what 22:42:55 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:16 -!- flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:46:33 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:31 -!- Staplegun has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:21 -!- dienosore has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:52:02 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:52:47 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:52 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:55:58 how many of the new races are in the manual? 22:56:04 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:56:38 kilobyte, bh, Eronarn: perhaps you should add them? 22:57:19 SamB: dolbot will get it 22:57:34 does he edit the wiki then 22:58:33 where does the manual live? 22:59:44 ??manual 22:59:45 manual[1/2]: Manuals let you train a skill more efficiently. Read a manual to activate it. While you carry it you gain twice as many skill points as normal until the manual is used up. Dropping the manual or reading it again deactivates it. The amount of skill points you gain is fixed; you cannot waste a manual's benefits. 22:59:50 hmm 23:00:33 rest: 23:00:34 wget -O - https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:manual:rest \ 23:00:34 | sed -f util/undoku.sed > $(DOC_BASE)/crawl_manual.reST 23:01:01 <|amethyst> let me make a couple of changes first 23:01:05 bh: I'm thinking it's on that wikipage 23:03:16 <|amethyst> ok, done 23:07:02 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:09:00 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:48 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:40 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:04 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:12:21 Hmmm... it looks like djinni taking damage from fireballs is that resist_adjust_damage() in fight.cc only special cases immunity for monsters. 23:12:29 Currently they have rF*4 which resist_fraction calculates as 1/6 damage 23:12:36 Could change the check in resist_adjust_damage to ((mons && res >= 3) || res > 3) 23:12:54 That seems to be what's intended by returning 4 for their res_fire 23:13:04 But I'm not sure if there'd be any weird side affects for something else. 23:13:11 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 23:13:13 This also has no effect on scroll destruction. 23:13:38 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 23:19:51 morning 23:19:54 -!- Sepik121 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:55 player::res_elec is the only one which could previously return a value above 3, and only if called with temp=false 23:20:49 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:21:20 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:01 Dixlet: if you dig into the tracker you may be horrified 23:22:19 You gaze into the tracker. You are terrified of the tracker! 23:23:35 Dixlet: but you also have to realise that something like 30% of bugs have been closed in the last few months 23:23:47 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:29 well i mean 30% of what there *were* 23:25:01 that's not a bad rate 23:25:48 yes, it was terrible before that, tickets had been growing steadily for quite some time 23:26:01 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:26:31 we now have a net balance of -310 in the last 90 days 23:26:37 but there are still 1100 open tickets :( 23:26:45 still that's not a bad pace 23:26:52 i might be able to work on tackling those 23:27:18 any help is appreciated 23:27:40 i'm sure my contributions will be entirely "positive" 23:27:48 there are a lot of old bugs that either can't be reproduced or have already been fixed and can just be outright closed 23:27:50 Dixlet: whatever, it takes time. 23:27:51 crap forget those double quotes 23:28:09 and then loads of little minor bugs that don't really take long to fix 23:28:14 i'll put a new issue on the tracker 23:28:18 tracker cleanup 23:28:25 haha 23:29:09 also there are a lot of duplicate/related bugs that can be linked together 23:30:14 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 23:30:15 if you see anything like the things i mentioned, comment on the ticket and i'll do the admin, or post a patch if you can fix it 23:31:17 yeah i can dig into that angle 23:31:46 there's a chance that after i start my new work i won't even want to think about code in my off hours but i can see myself attacking that 23:34:14 Grunt: sure Tomb sometimes not having exits counts as an epic bug 23:34:20 s/sure/surely 23:34:36 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:35:22 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:35:27 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1323-gfddfa6a: Don't have dryads masquerade as merfolk aquamancers. 10(53 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fddfa6ab2cc5 23:36:45 -!- C7ty1 has quit [] 23:38:40 mumra: we could start selling continues and hire a crawl customer service rep ;) 23:38:42 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:39:05 you mean "extra lives"? 23:39:15 yeah 23:39:37 who would collect 23:39:47 I mean, who would get the money 23:40:17 SamB: we had an idea like this for April Fools one year :) 23:40:18 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:40:41 hehehe 23:41:02 was the joke that you wouldn't actually get a continue when you payed for it? 23:41:20 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:41:32 nah. It had some nonsense with facebook. It was the fake webtiles announcement 23:42:32 <|amethyst> haha 23:42:45 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:42:54 <|amethyst> I just had a mercenary tengu upgrade to a tecj 23:43:18 |amethyst: you're welcome :)( 23:43:29 |amethyst: keep him going and he will become a TeRe! 23:43:40 <|amethyst> not sure which spell set yet... I was like "wait, I didn't cast battlesphere" 23:44:03 <|amethyst> bug report 23:44:09 <|amethyst> "Your battlesphere dissipates" 23:44:41 <|amethyst> I mean 23:44:54 I guess it hasn't really been possible to have ally battlespheres previously. 23:44:55 <|amethyst> I guess it's not exactly a bug, since summons of summons are "yours" 23:45:19 <|amethyst> but it's a bit weird with a battlesphere, since that's tied to the caster 23:45:35 should be Your foobar's battlesphere 23:45:35 right 23:45:49 Paemargho's battlesphere dissipates. 23:46:07 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:46:37 hmm, troll leather armour is going to be pretty good on a Dj right 23:46:40 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:47 "throws lance of force" 23:46:59 FR: battlesphere's battlesphere 23:47:07 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:10 lol 23:47:14 <|amethyst> "Really fire through your Paemargho?" 23:47:50 tengu conjurer (02H) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 7 | HP: 23-52 | AC/EV: 2/17 | Dam: 10, 5, 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 388 | Sp: force lance (3d4), mystic blast (3d13), battlesphere, blink / mephitic cloud, b.venom (3d12), battlesphere, blink / shock (d12), b.lightning (3d14), battlesphere, blink / throw flame (3d7), b.magma (3d15), battlesphere, blink | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 23:47:50 %??tengu conjurer 23:47:58 ...yeah, he has the force lance / IMB spell set. 23:48:17 <|amethyst> I missed it 23:48:21 Scroll up a bit more. 23:48:36 <|amethyst> aha 23:48:43 -!- Nikolaos has quit [] 23:48:48 mumra: Djinn Healer with Ring of Regen :) 23:49:02 are triple swards a real thing 23:49:35 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:50:13 No. 23:51:07 yeah, I guess there are a lot of not real things in comics 23:51:21 are they an anachronistic not-real thing? 23:51:49 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:53:37 as far as i know they are a crawl not-real thing 23:53:45 If they're not real, how can they be anachronistic? :b 23:53:49 |amethyst: I'm enjoying the conjurer party. 23:53:54 <|amethyst> heh 23:54:01 well I saw one in a comic just now 23:54:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:54:09 maybe the comic stole them from crawl 23:54:35 <|amethyst> Grunt: I fear it will end in sorry 23:54:37 <|amethyst> sorrow 23:54:45 If you die, I will kill you. 23:54:46 Wait. 23:54:48 <|amethyst> seeing as how both of us have IMB 23:54:49 That doesn't work. 23:54:51 >_> 23:55:46 <|amethyst> why is his IMB following me 23:55:53 <|amethyst> err 23:55:54 <|amethyst> BS 23:57:31 It looks like some tidbit of ally AI is overwriting the battlesphere AI? 23:57:57 <|amethyst> or some of the battlesphere AI assumes friendly <-> you 23:58:12 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:58:26 I find that unlikely. 23:59:07 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev