00:00:17 does it work against those? I don't even know, I know in past versions it didn't work against mesmerize at least 00:00:28 I know it works against mislead 00:00:34 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.1-44-gf8d718b 00:00:37 <|amethyst> <+elliptic> people already don't know what clarity does — I think elliptic's point is proven :) 00:00:52 moth of wrath berserk is a potentially important thing for it to work against too 00:00:57 Yes, but possibly it would be helped by being more comprehensive in working on 'mental' effects 00:00:59 -!- Implojin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:01:04 ...and I have no idea if it works on fear... 00:01:13 mainly this comes up when we tell someone complaining about berserkitis to look for clarity 00:01:15 I think it doesn't (but possibly should) 00:01:20 learndb says confuse (except when not), mislead, forced berserk 00:01:21 and they seem very surprised that this is a thing 00:01:26 DracoOmega: i like that 00:01:39 except for the fact that yes it isn't immediately intuitive 00:01:40 :\ 00:01:43 SwissStopwatch: Well, Xom confusion is another issue 00:01:54 yes 00:02:08 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1040-gfb76507 (34) 00:02:22 probably a comprehensive mental effects block would be fine, as long as people actually remembered and agreed on what all of those were 00:02:33 Yes 00:02:43 Okay, it seems it doesn't work on fear, but DOES work on mesmerize 00:02:54 Except that it doesn't give a good message for mesmerize, so it doesn't LOOK like you're immune 00:02:58 It's just the normal 'you resist.' 00:03:04 Which is different than with, say, confusion 00:03:17 I can see whether or not fear is really a mental effect being something people might argue about 00:03:36 I think something inspiring fear in you is pretty clearly mind-affecting 00:03:49 but what about, say, brain feed from a neqoxec 00:04:01 I would agree (especially since mechanically it's just like mesmerize but going in the opposite direction) 00:04:23 Brain feed feels less like clouding your mind and more just absorbing some of it 00:04:34 that you could argue is an attack actually directed against somebody's brain 00:04:38 does flaying really feel like clouding your mind? 00:04:42 in a physical sense maybe 00:04:44 No, that is the issue 00:04:48 Though the wounds are clearly illusory 00:05:04 -!- purge_ has quit [Quit: %] 00:05:06 I hadn't really thought of it as mental until evilmike mentioned it 00:05:07 if they're actually just an illusion, why do they do anything at all 00:05:20 <|amethyst> SwissStopwatch: D&D 00:05:28 <|amethyst> illusions can kill you if you think they're real 00:05:31 Well, there's plenty of predecent for people dying from illusions if they're convinced the injuries are real 00:05:33 SwissStopwatch: I was wondering the same thing 00:05:49 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12.1-44-gf8d718b (34) 00:05:50 what, like in the matrix? 00:05:54 this sounds like a Mara buff in the making 00:05:55 "the mind makes it real"? 00:05:57 <|amethyst> SamB: that too 00:06:09 SwissStopwatch: But Mara already works that way! 00:06:13 The illusions still do real damage 00:06:19 Even though only one Mara is real 00:06:22 no I mean mislead 00:06:24 "so that was really a rat, but it looks like it's a draconian monk to you, so..." 00:06:28 Oh, hahaha 00:06:31 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:06:41 <|amethyst> I'm sure there's a tvtropes entry about this 00:06:43 Do plants still explode into orbs of fire and liches and such? 00:06:46 -!- reaver has quit [Client Quit] 00:07:14 or like that one thing with the three evil megaman clones, two of which are holograms but all of which shoot hot plasma? 00:07:30 I'm not sure I've seen a giant spore explode under mara, but I'm pretty sure my Fedhas allies looked like particularly immobile paladins and deep dwarf death knights and etc 00:07:40 so I think that would happen? 00:07:50 I recall one time in Shoals was rather terrifying 00:07:55 (I think they even shoot diagonally, the dirty cheaters!) 00:08:03 When I ran into a bunch of plants afterward, while forgetting I was mesmerized 00:08:06 I think I had stepped away? 00:08:21 I forget what they had turned into, but it was something actually convincing for a moment 00:08:53 but yeah, I can but that the flayed ghost can magically curse people to suffer horrible wounds, or that Mara can imbue a clone with powers matching yours, or his 00:09:27 s/but/buy 00:09:33 maybe ghouls are unpopular because they have troll like apts 00:09:43 but they are a lot crappier than troll 00:09:45 They don't, though 00:09:49 They have far, far better apts 00:09:51 DracoOmega: i was mislead today/yesterday, i can confirm plants become a ridiculous nightmare when it happened to me in shoals 00:09:56 They have better apts than demonspawn, probably, even 00:09:58 yes, their apts are nothing like troll apts 00:09:58 or that a rakshasa can magically duplicate that scroll of summoning it picked up....... 00:10:07 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:10:14 SwissStopwatch: Did that really happen? 00:10:22 Well 00:10:22 are troll apts like -5 in everything? 00:10:28 !apt tr 00:10:29 Tr: Fighting: -2*, Short: -2, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -1, Polearms: -2, Staves: -2, Slings: -4*, Bows: -4*, Xbows: -4*, Throw: -1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -4*, Stab: -2, Shields: -2, Traps: -4*, UC: 0, Splcast: -5*, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -4*, Charms: -4*, Summ: -3*, Nec: -2, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3*, Air: -4*, Earth: -1, Poison: -3*, Inv: -1*, Evo: -2*, Exp: -1, HP: 3!, MP: ... 00:10:30 the magnitudes are less but the signs are the same 00:10:37 !pt gh 00:10:39 troll apts are pretty terrible 00:10:39 !apt gh 00:10:39 I know at some point, there was a scroll of summoning on the floor that I didn't get because I was fleeing from something 00:10:40 Gh: Fighting: 1, Short: -1, Long: -1, Axes: -1, Maces: -1, Polearms: -1, Staves: -1, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: -1, Dodge: -1, Stealth: 2, Stab: 0, Shields: -1, Traps: -1, UC: 1!, Splcast: -2, Conj: -2, Hexes: -2, Charms: -1, Summ: -1, Nec: 0, Tloc: -1, Tmut: -1, Fire: -2, Ice: 1, Air: -2, Earth: 1, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 0, HP: 1, MP: -1 00:10:49 <|amethyst> http://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/10/us/nightmares-suspected-in-bed-deaths-of-18-laotians.html 00:10:49 then at some point nearby there was a rakshasa 00:10:55 Actually, a long-running thought regarding Rakshasa that I had was to make them only clone themselves a couple times, and not be invisible, but spawn with some random potentially useful item to benefit from their cloning 00:11:03 and then there were many, many, many summoned enemies 00:11:14 Since currently they basically do nothing interesting 00:11:17 I mean there were also boggarts on the floor so maybe I missed one of those 00:11:18 But there is potential there! 00:11:22 but I think it was the rakshasa 00:11:31 (Clearly they should just spawn with rods of smiting all the time) 00:11:37 hahahahaha :( 00:11:39 rod of swarms 00:11:53 But really, a chance for one of a random number of all kinds of things could be kind of interesting, I think 00:12:05 Some of them not that powerful, but ocassionally something that might be even more noticable 00:12:32 it definitely sounds like it would be hilarious 00:13:08 anyway yeah I guess they can do interesting stuff now but it's rare 00:13:15 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1040-gfb76507 (34) 00:13:17 Well, they have to wander by something and pick it up 00:13:18 ...like the scrolls of summoning thing, ehe 00:13:20 Which usually never happens 00:13:28 good thing there was only one 00:13:51 |amethyst: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unexpected_death_syndrome 00:13:57 <|amethyst> rast: yeah 00:14:02 anyway yeah I guess my entire point is that it seems weird to me to argue that those things aren't actually real 00:14:10 even if the monsters are illusionists 00:14:14 seems like a genetic defect 00:14:17 <|amethyst> rast: apparently this was part of the inspiration for _Nightmare on Elm Street_ 00:14:26 <|amethyst> rast: the early 80s explanation that is 00:15:30 still awaiting an explanation for the 80s 00:15:39 <|amethyst> rast: cocaine and hair metal 00:15:49 -!- Blazinghand__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:15:51 <|amethyst> that's the explanation 00:16:23 |amethyst: how does that explain TeX 00:16:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:46 it's like an esolang 00:17:07 <|amethyst> SamB: TeX was released in 1978, it was on the tail end of prog 00:17:30 is that why getting it to do what I want is such a roundabout process 00:18:05 <|amethyst> Until Fripp, Knuth, and Lamport got back together in 1983 with "LaTeX Tongues in Aspic" 00:18:41 sighh 00:19:33 <|amethyst> You know, I've never seen Robert Fripp and Donald Knuth in the same place at the same time... 00:19:48 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 00:23:52 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:25:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:26:29 !!! 00:27:31 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:27:47 ??hair metal 00:27:48 I don't have a page labeled hair_metal in my learndb. 00:29:56 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:46 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:31:23 SamB: http://grooveshark.com/s/Barracuda/4mobcd?src=5 00:37:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:42:34 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:49 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:45:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:46:07 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1040-gfb76507 00:46:21 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:44 -!- HandiCraftsman has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:58:16 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:49 -!- johlstei_ has quit 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[Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:22:59 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:26:10 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:26:23 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:31 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:59 Trees prevent choosing monster as target for allies by hxy 09:29:13 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:29:19 -!- hart_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:30:58 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:10 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:15 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:41 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33:11 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:34:30 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:54 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:38:01 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:38:49 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:39:05 Profane servitors rHoly is inconsistent. by dck 09:43:13 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:44:36 -!- eigenlord has quit [] 09:46:10 -!- sym` has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:46:26 -!- Krag has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:33 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:00 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:07 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:09 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:50:20 -!- sym has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:52 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:31 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:52:44 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:02 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 09:55:30 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:39 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:00:02 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:30 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:05:54 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:07:45 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:08:00 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:31 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:15:01 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:59 -!- darkflagrance has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:19:43 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:21:30 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:25:43 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:27:35 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:01 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:29:09 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 10:29:37 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:32:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:32:19 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:32:36 Grunt: why combine mesmerize and fear? i havent tried it ingame, but stopping melee-focused characters both from attacking and from retreating on a regular basis does not sound fun 10:35:00 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:37 I don't really intend for them to keep both (unless somehow the two spells are set up to block each other); I'm mainly interested in seeing which of the two (or neither?) works better in the current environment. 10:37:41 (More likely to drop Mesmerise than Cause Fear, as the latter is more useful for ranged attackers.) 10:38:40 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:54 Effectively, I'm looking to set up an AM-like spell set, and the problem I'm running into is that there aren't enough hexes that are a) interesting for monsters to have, and b) aren't overused already. 10:39:01 (see also: invisibility) 10:39:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:39:31 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:39:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:40:31 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:51 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:39 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:46:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:49:30 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:53:42 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:53:49 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:54:01 <|amethyst> so for the autopickup menu I'm splitting into "chunks", "meat", "vegetables", and ... 10:54:15 <|amethyst> what should be the name of the category for honeycombs, etc 10:54:37 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:54:39 <|amethyst> royal jelly, honeycomb, pizza, cheese, ambrosia 10:54:54 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1052-ge502c66: Merge branch 'master' into forest_redux 10(15 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e502c66fa32b 10:54:54 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1053-g184b49b: Drop Mesmerise from fauns and satyrs, and Leda's from fauns (not satyrs). 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 13+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=184b49b5e5f8 10:54:56 <|amethyst> "animal byproducts" ? 10:56:00 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:21 |amethyst: "other", "misc" 10:56:37 <|amethyst> I guess "other food" will do 10:56:44 <|amethyst> and "preserved meat" instead of "meat" 10:57:17 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:33 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:49 -!- SteampunkDuck has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:00:04 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:00:31 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:01:47 <|amethyst> this still won't distinguish bread rations from fruit 11:02:38 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:08 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:06:39 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 11:10:35 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:16 i think fedhasites can cope with that 11:11:29 hm, other people maybe not 11:12:12 btw, imo do away with apples, pears, etc, and have a single "fruit" item 11:12:22 the clutter is super annoying 11:12:54 "slime mold" 11:13:01 also the super small fruit vs regular fruit eating time distinction is stupid 11:13:19 -!- Guest81510 is now known as magicpoints 11:13:54 we already have potions of porridge for a quick nutrition boost 11:14:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:14:34 <|amethyst> if we keep one fruit it had better be chokos 11:14:43 "fruit" 11:14:52 "this is a fruit. tasty!" 11:15:01 name and description, already done 11:15:46 should unrand staves be changed to OBJ_STAVES base type (instead of OBJ_WEAPONS?) 11:16:03 what would that do? 11:16:06 what effect might that have elsewhere? (i'm trying to fix acquirement code so "Staves" can generate the unrand staves) 11:16:08 oh, autopickup 11:16:10 yes! 11:16:32 hm, not autopickup i guess, that has single staves 11:16:33 <|amethyst> mumra_: don't they have enchantments? 11:16:53 <|amethyst> because AFAIK staves cannot 11:16:58 hmm, yeah 11:17:10 chokos can be preserved as a message when you eat the fruit item 11:17:12 along with all the others 11:17:25 mumra_: whats wrong with just starting the whole thing with "if(one_chance_in(50)) gimme an unrand staff" 11:18:03 (unless you cant wield it) 11:18:05 well that's basically the idea, but i'm trying to reuse a certain amount of existing code to do this, but it's tripping up because of the base types 11:18:23 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 11:18:41 you could rewrite acquirement :P 11:18:41 shouldn't weapon acq be what acquires them? 11:18:51 MarvinPA: these are the unrand elemental staves 11:18:56 MarvinPA: because they are for attacking? 11:19:02 well so are normal elemental staves 11:19:10 but they acquire under a different option 11:19:30 i meant wucad mu and elemental staff arent for attacking, but for casty staffy stuff 11:19:34 what's weird about them is they have WPN_STAFF instead of WPN_QUARTERSTAFF 11:19:54 which is why they're not acquired under *weapon* acquirement 11:20:11 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1054-gaa01952: Strip Pan of duplication. 10(19 minutes ago, 12 files, 4+ 70-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aa01952801fd 11:20:29 well the elemental staff definitely isn't a "staff" in the same way as the others 11:20:53 so i guess that should just be changed back to a quarterstaff or something 11:21:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:21:07 i hate that unrand 11:21:13 is it still just a noisy resist stick? 11:21:13 also removed, yes 11:21:24 it's the worst sky weapon ever :P 11:21:30 actually yeah this is just olgreb and wucad my 11:21:33 s/my/mu 11:21:42 wow olgreb acquirement 11:21:45 too good 11:22:06 since dispater and asmodeus are the only two other unrands that use WPN_STAFF and we couldn't have them in acquirement 11:22:29 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:22:43 fr acquire agnes staff 11:22:47 oh and "Elemental Staff" 11:23:13 elemental staff is inappropriate for a staff acquirement i think 11:23:19 but i endorse MarvinPA's solution to this dilemma 11:23:26 how about this for elemental staff: it boosts all elemental spells, and weakens all nonelemental ones. or remove. 11:23:51 "the MarvinPA solution" 11:24:56 you can give -HP to weapons now right 11:25:06 yeah 11:25:28 did something get -hp? 11:25:41 I'm not sure if a -HP +MP items would be remotely good 11:26:19 ??spear of the botono 11:26:19 spear of the botono[1/2]: The +2,+10 spear of the Botono {reap, rPois rN+ HP-6}, acts as a hex enhancer. 11:26:48 -6 11:26:51 -.- 11:27:24 I forget how the MP stepdown works, but if it was something like -30 +30 it could actually be significant after 50MP 11:28:07 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:29:43 or just use the new staff of power? how did that turn out btw? 11:31:03 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:35 |amethyst: pong 11:33:49 <|amethyst> Grunt: what's up? 11:34:12 |amethyst: just a thought that occurred to me which I'd like your opinion on. 11:34:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: BRB, DEAD] 11:34:59 We have a lot of experimental races / branches / etc. that are reaching a state where they could use more widespread testing than just being a branch, and I was pondering how difficult it would be to offer an "experimental" branch on, say, cszo which has some or all of these things in it. 11:36:17 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:05 <|amethyst> Grunt: well, I've done it before for inception 11:37:20 I mean, to some extent I expect trunk to be a testing ground for things, but some of the changes I'm thinking of are possibly too rough even for trunk right now. 11:37:40 <|amethyst> mostly, it's a pain to edit the dgl/webtiles configs to add then later remove the branch 11:37:53 <|amethyst> but I don't think an generic "experimental" branch makes sense 11:37:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:39:02 it's far too dangerous, it might prove that squarelos is great and everyone likes it 11:39:05 and we can't have that 11:39:16 I'm mainly concerned that offering too many different branches for testing things out would be a headache both for the people maintaining the servers and for players looking for something to try out. 11:39:49 maybe we need another thing in addition to trunk 11:39:53 <|amethyst> kilobyte was already talking about a branch on cszo with djinn, lava orcs, etc 11:40:07 fyi if there was an experimental branch with squarelos I would play nothing else no matter how bad the other things added are 11:40:11 <|amethyst> so maybe put that together with forest into a single branch 11:40:13 well as long as sequell tracked it 11:40:20 |amethyst: those are the things that I had in mind, yes :) 11:40:30 <|amethyst> and, no, sequell shouldn't track such experimental things 11:40:44 so we will have stable trunk and hypertrunk 11:40:51 newnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewtrunk 11:40:53 well it could track it if you gave a flag, like sprint 11:41:12 tbh a lot of players interpret 'stable' the wrong way anyway 11:41:48 elliott: uhm, now you listed a serious reason against: people will hate terrible ideas like that 11:41:49 kilobyte: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:41:51 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:42:37 hmm, I kind of wonder: as long as things are easy to revert, why would we need something else than trunk? 11:42:55 <|amethyst> yeah 11:43:08 <|amethyst> in general I think putting it in trunk is better 11:43:16 <|amethyst> the big problem there is the possibility of breaking saves 11:43:31 so squarelos should go in trunk then? sounds good 11:43:39 * kilobyte spanks elliott. 11:43:47 <|amethyst> elliott: squarelos + euclidean 11:43:58 |amethyst: *head explodes* 11:44:05 <|amethyst> elliott: can't have photons and matter behave the same way 11:44:12 |amethyst: that sounds less broken than the current situation because targetting would still be non-euclidean 11:44:14 well save compat hasn't been broken in like forever but surely it's not actually a big deal as long as we're not doing it like, every week 11:44:15 so sure, do it 11:44:56 Grunt: Pan special ability should be something related to playing pipes 11:45:17 -!- t4nk095 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:22 new experimental races could get turned to humans upon revert 11:47:30 we usually went with Debian-like way: trunk is for changes expected to get into the next stable release, but that's not necessarily something that must be kept 11:47:56 for example, octopodes or Shoals: both were present but disabled 11:48:17 obviously, reverting can lead to trouble sometimes 11:48:51 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:49:20 but if only an experimental race breaks, what's the problem? 11:49:33 Is there a reason why is_missile_brand_ok allows chaos, silver, and steel throwing nets? 11:51:33 Forest branch is actually already in this state in trunk 11:51:35 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I forgot, how do I add just one chunk of a file to my index? 11:52:32 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Iceweasel 21.0/20130515140136]] 11:52:39 |amethyst: you might enjoy git add -i 11:52:55 <|amethyst> add -p was what I was looking for 11:52:57 t4nk095: is there a reason why it shouldn't? that code is never hit outside of people messing with vaults, or in wizmode 11:53:02 <|amethyst> ah, add -i does the same thing 11:56:02 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:41 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:57 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:04:51 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.1-44-gf8d718b 12:04:57 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:35 if anyone adds a chaos throwing net to a vault... 12:10:07 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10:32 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1042-g5e5a47e (34) 12:10:42 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1043-g77135a6: Fix punctuation. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=77135a63571f 12:10:42 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1044-g78887cc: Simplify with food_is_meaty, food_is_veggie functions. 10(17 minutes ago, 5 files, 50+ 83-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=78887ccb4017 12:10:42 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1045-gc5697ee: Split meats and veggies in the autopickup menu. 10(17 minutes ago, 2 files, 28+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c5697ee9631a 12:11:13 <|amethyst> net reduction of 15 LOC 12:11:14 <|amethyst> nice 12:14:42 <|amethyst> now the stuff that hard-coded lists of veggies/meats use just two functions 12:15:00 <|amethyst> and the new functions don't hard-code the lists either: they look at the carn_mod and herb_mod 12:17:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:17:13 -!- Shaft has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:18:01 it's a bit strange rods are acquired under "staff" now that rods are maces... 12:19:06 rename staff acquirement to stuff that uses evoc and isn't awful except also not even that any more acquirement 12:19:22 <|amethyst> I was thinking rename it to "Staves and rods" 12:19:29 pff 12:19:40 "Things on the | glyph" 12:20:38 or alternatively, we could try to give the rest of staves a melee effect 12:20:49 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1046-gebf0858: Make the Elemental Staff a WPN_QUARTERSTAFF (Mantis #7047) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ebf0858a57f4 12:20:49 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1047-g21d5f32: Allow Olgeb's / Wucad Mu to generate via Stave acquirement (Mantis #7047) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=21d5f32e6cd0 12:21:35 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:21:42 -!- quibert has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:22:03 energy: MP theft, conj: something that doesn't duplicate earth (like, a weak explosion?), or perhaps random elements (weaker than individual staves), power? 12:22:49 |amethyst: Maybe I'm missing something, but are veggies and other food useful autopickup categories? 12:23:21 Also bread doesn't sound like a veggie to me 12:23:49 -!- Enthash has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 12:23:50 Medar: grains 12:24:09 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:24:27 |amethyst: we do have three honey-based foods, though 12:24:43 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:21 kilobyte: Even if that's somehow technically right, I don't think it will be what most people expect 12:26:30 Anyway, maybe just meat and other food is enough. Or meat, fruit and other food. 12:26:32 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:50 I could certainly see disabling fruit sometimes, because they just fill your inventory anyway. 12:28:09 <|amethyst> meat, fruit, and other food is a bit weird for kobolds 12:28:20 <|amethyst> since they can't eat all of the "other food" (bread rations) 12:28:29 |amethyst: honey 12:28:42 <|amethyst> bread isn't honey 12:29:18 I mean, bread counts as veggie food, honey doesn't 12:29:25 <|amethyst> right 12:29:44 so kobolds and ghouls can eat it 12:29:46 <|amethyst> so having bread and honey/cheese toggled by the same item sounds wrong 12:29:49 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:26 <|amethyst> anyway, gtg for a bit, feel free to change it as necessary 12:30:33 |amethyst: well if they can't eat stuff, it won't be autopicked up anyway 12:31:20 by behaviour, there are four classes: meat (unfit for spriggans), fruit (unfit for Ko/Gh, Fedhas likes), bread, honey 12:31:23 doh, and pizza 12:31:52 could just do four classes, but maybe that's an overkill 12:32:42 add djinn, then there's also "useless food" vs "food with a function" 12:33:23 ah no, that's only honey types (royal jelly, ambrosia); still no honeycomb 12:33:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:41 -!- Shaft has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:33:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:34:19 kind of strange for obligate carnivores to be able to eat pizza when full vegetarians get full nutrition out of it 12:35:52 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 12:35:59 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1048-g3285dfc: Make front/back clouds render with correct alpha levels (webtiles) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 44+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3285dfc9afb3 12:36:27 -!- zts_ has quit [Client Quit] 12:38:23 whig (L15 VpNe) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 403 failed. (D:14) 12:38:41 mumra_: heh, the comment about elemental staves in _generate_staff_item() sounds weird as the only staff that can't go through that code path is the Elemental Staff 12:38:56 !lm whig type=crash -log 12:38:57 1. whig, XL15 VpNe, T:49227 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/whig/crash-whig-20130527-173822.txt 12:39:13 whig (L15 VpNe) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 403 failed. (D:14) 12:39:28 kilobyte: hmm, true; the strange thing is the Element Staff being called that when it's not an elemental stave ;) 12:39:45 Staff of Elements? 12:40:40 -!- sadolit has quit [Client Quit] 12:40:59 looks like the game doesn't refer to them this way anywhere 12:41:51 -!- whig has quit [] 12:41:51 no, it's just me mixing up words that begin with E 12:41:55 -!- whog is now known as whig 12:41:57 substituted it for enhancer 12:43:39 -!- t4nk095 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:43:39 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:45:05 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:45:44 whig (L15 VpNe) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 403 failed. (D:14) 12:46:06 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1049-g76b0899: Clarify comment elemental->enhancer 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=76b08990beea 12:47:59 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:48:03 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:49:58 <|amethyst> Medar: the idea is for kobolds of fedhas, or spriggans with simulacrum, to be able to turn off the food they can't eat 12:50:20 <|amethyst> Medar: since some of that will be autopicked up by the default rules 12:50:30 Doesn't fedhas only enable autopickup of fruits, not other stuff 12:50:43 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1-rc1] 12:50:43 <|amethyst> Medar: the only other thing in that category is bread rations 12:50:56 <|amethyst> I didn't want to make them a category of their own 12:51:39 <|amethyst> but maybe putting bread with other food does make sense 12:51:40 Well putting them into other food certainly would work better for ko of fedhas case 12:51:44 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:52:33 <|amethyst> yeah 12:53:38 <|amethyst> I'll look into that here in a bit (I'm still not really back :) 12:54:38 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:55:06 -!- zoyy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:55:34 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:56:37 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 12:57:31 Think meat, fruit and other food would be fine, can't really think of reasons to disable different things left in other food. 12:57:44 Even ambrosia is so rare it just doesn't matter. 12:58:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:00:44 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:02:35 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:05:40 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:08:42 -!- superc has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:09:46 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:10 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:46 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:14:25 -!- Shaft has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:15:58 <|amethyst> Medar: I am keeping chunks and preserved meat separate 13:16:11 Yeah, that's good for sure. 13:16:26 <|amethyst> Medar: the new categories will be chunks, preserved meat, fruit, and other food 13:16:39 I tend to turn off chunks if I have gourmand 13:16:42 Sounds good to me 13:17:16 a bit strange to have bread together with stuff edible for all 13:17:32 oh wait, never mind, uselessness overrides autopickup settings 13:17:36 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:17:44 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it doesn't override manual settings in the menu 13:18:04 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I definitely don't want "bread" to be its own category 13:18:05 it's "on" by default, yet you don't pick them up 13:18:14 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it's "default" by default 13:18:19 <|amethyst> kilobyte: there are three states 13:18:43 btw, i hate having to use ^d to get back to default 13:18:44 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:19:02 * Medar didn't even know you could go back to default 13:19:13 <|amethyst> I liked having a three way toggle, but people complained about that 13:19:24 <|amethyst> three way as in default -> on -> off -> default 13:19:35 |amethyst: if you are messing with the code, how about separating spellbooks and manuals? 13:19:40 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:19:42 yeah, that would be good 13:19:44 I guess tome messes up that thing a bit 13:19:44 er... that's bad then. Why would kobolds/etc pick up bread? 13:20:01 -!- Soyweiser has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:20:03 kilobyte: usually you dont mess with food autopickup because it works 13:20:10 Medar: I thonl the tome should be a misc item 13:20:28 (shift a couple letters to the left) 13:20:50 alefury: yeah, the default works, it's just \ which does not 13:21:01 <|amethyst> kilobyte: so what should be the categories in \ ? 13:21:06 (unless you know about that third state on ^D which I for example did not) 13:21:06 (... since we're working on misc items, can we get the quad damage in somehow >_>) 13:21:11 <|amethyst> chunks, meat, fruit, bread, other ? 13:21:52 |amethyst: perhaps the switch should be three-way after all? 13:22:12 because the third option makes a lot more sense than "force" 13:22:22 If you'll cover all the cases, it will be messy. I think meat, fruit and other cover the usual ones where you actually might want to use the \ menu. 13:22:41 I mean, if something is useless, why would people pick it up? At most it means the uselessness flag is wrong. 13:23:01 <|amethyst> kilobyte: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7087 13:23:13 <|amethyst> well 13:23:28 <|amethyst> I guess we could go back to marking meat as useless even if you have simulacrum 13:23:38 <|amethyst> but then what if you do want to pick it up? 13:23:48 want to use the \ menu. 13:23:51 err, sorry 13:24:40 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:25:16 |amethyst: I think, if it's so vital to have two rather than three states, perhaps "pickup the item unless it's useless" should be the non-hidden one? 13:25:58 That sucks on some other situations though. 13:26:04 <|amethyst> do you mean "pickup unless it's useless", or "default"? 13:26:27 <|amethyst> default meaning "whatever your autopickup_exceptions and catgeory pickup option says" 13:27:23 <|amethyst> I would prefer a tri-state menu I think 13:27:30 autopickup_exceptions offer finer control than \ ... 13:27:45 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:27:47 <|amethyst> yes, but you have to save, edit, and restart to change it 13:27:53 <|amethyst> I guess you can do it from lua 13:28:03 do you happen to remember the discussion which led to making it two way only? 13:28:07 The default setting should probably be indicated better, instead of + vs. bolded + 13:28:16 Medar: yeah 13:29:04 <|amethyst> suggestions? 13:29:06 <|amethyst> two new symbols? 13:29:13 -!- Nivim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:14 Hmh. 13:29:17 <|amethyst> a different colour? 13:30:10 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:20 <|amethyst> (default is either "+" or "-" depending on whether you a_e and category pickup would grab an exemplar item of that type; that part is currently broken for "other food" but I've got a fix for that 13:30:49 <|amethyst> however, my fix introduces a minor version tag so I'd rather not push it until I know what the categories should be 13:30:55 maybe make forced pickup a green plus, and forced no-pickup a red minus 13:31:43 the current state works pretty well for me other than ^D being annoying to press repeatedly, bold seems fine for indicating "changed from default" 13:32:18 Yeah, it's actually better than I remembered. 13:32:44 Green/red is generally a bad idea (most common color blindness) 13:32:46 it is visible well enough when you know what to look for 13:32:49 oh right 13:33:29 If you understand the menu, it's fine. Don't really know how to make it more clear though. 13:33:40 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:41 Maybe just the fact that it would be tri-state would make it clearer. 13:33:41 i really hate ^D 13:33:59 So you don't just press some key twice and then wonder why things changed 13:34:09 i had no idea ^D was a thing 13:34:50 i knew there was a way to get back to default, so i looked for one. its documented ingame. 13:35:05 i didn't knew that 13:35:05 just not something anyone would find without looking 13:35:27 kinda like ' 13:35:48 splitting up the categories gets rid of some of the need for three states, but I guess there will always be some need 13:35:49 <|amethyst> kilobyte: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4238 13:35:59 <|amethyst> kilobyte: see galehar's comment on 2012-06-21 22:36 13:36:05 -!- Terwaltz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:36:09 don't want to make the menu overly long either 13:36:21 <|amethyst> kilobyte: "Also, I think it would be more ergonomic to use ctrl+D to enter a "reset to default" mode, instead of a 3 state toggle, which is just annoying most of the time. Although, it might be harder to implement and I can't see where to fit the information. A 3 state toggle is still be an improvement." 13:36:37 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1050-gbbb1672: Add comment (and resort: all other monster swapping code checks m1 before m2). 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bbb1672e175d 13:36:40 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I want to say there was more discussion in IRC abou tit 13:37:09 <|amethyst> kilobyte: (the current state at the time was a two-way toggle with no way to get back to default) 13:37:13 usually i want to toggle between default and not default, not between not default and the other not default 13:37:32 <|amethyst> alefury: what does "not default" mean? 13:37:54 if default is pick it up, not default is dont pick it up. 13:38:03 and of course the other way around 13:38:08 <|amethyst> alefury: if my autopickup exceptions say to pick up curare, but not other needles 13:38:26 <|amethyst> alefury: should "not-default" mean "don't pick up curare, do pick up other needles" 13:38:26 it tests for an example item, which I guess always a basic one 13:38:38 <|amethyst> alefury: or "pick up all needles"? 13:38:43 right, the other thing is that there are a whole bunch of cases where there's no need for 3 states at all i guess 13:38:48 I wonder, perhaps non-trivial settings could be detected somehow? 13:38:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:00 <|amethyst> alefury: and what if I decided I don't want to pick up curare with this character anymore? 13:39:03 wands, potions, scrolls, jewellery, staves 13:39:20 |amethyst: i know theres no way for the game to read my mind, my point is that usually i want to be able to go back to the default, instead of the other non-default state 13:39:21 <|amethyst> kilobyte: not sure how short of trying every possible items 13:39:37 <|amethyst> kilobyte: since autopickup_exceptions is a string match 13:39:46 |amethyst: currently i have to do a^da to do that. aaa would be nicer 13:39:46 <|amethyst> s/items/item/ 13:39:46 |amethyst: that's easy, but I wonder if it can go worse with god_gift and the like 13:40:07 <|amethyst> alefury: I agree with that 13:40:40 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:42:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:42:29 <|amethyst> alefury: I'd apply a patch to do that... I really don't want to mess with the autopickup menu UI code right now :) 13:42:56 <|amethyst> s/code/code myself/ 13:43:40 My main problem is just the difficulty figuring out that there are actually a difference between bold line with a plus and non-bold one. Other than it has been toggled. 13:43:48 ill take a look, but no guarantees 13:43:50 If default just showed = instead of + or - it would be more clear. 13:44:09 Medar: yeah, it's really unintuitive 13:44:11 <|amethyst> Medar: but then it's hard to predict what toggling it would do 13:44:12 But then it doesn't tell you that you probably currently won't pick up javelins. 13:44:18 Indeed. 13:44:33 a strong color change that lightgrey to white might help 13:44:42 stronger 13:45:17 if default showed = that would be really unclear and bad because it wouldn't show you what it's actually doing 13:45:58 but it's not actually doing + or -, except most of the time :p 13:46:13 except almost all of the time, yes 13:46:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:29 actually, default autopickup exclusions are pretty slim, so could be just obeyed by "+" 13:47:53 it could show = when it really is a mix of picking some stuff up and not picking other stuff up i guess, but presumably that requires checking every item like amethyst said 13:47:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:48:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: and what if you really want to turn on autopickup for some useless item 13:49:13 <|amethyst> kilobyte: for example, you're a mummy who's planning on worshipping nemelex so you want to pick up potions 13:49:21 <|amethyst> to sac when you convert 13:49:46 <|amethyst> if you obeyed autopickup_exceptions that wouldn't be possible 13:49:57 you can't do that for weapons/etc already 13:50:04 <|amethyst> true 13:50:16 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:26 Was thinking about having two character indication, ++, --, =-, =+ or something, but none of that seems nice either 13:50:31 <|amethyst> It just seems kind of bad to have autopickup_exceptions, which can only be changed by reading docs and editing a file, override the choices you make in game 13:50:40 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:54 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:51:26 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:18 -!- gvdm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:54 editing any options in-game is a new thing 13:53:59 ...silliness of the moment: http://sprunge.us/MZDb 13:54:35 It's really good though. Those saccable items, fruits for fedhas. Permafood in lichform. 13:54:40 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:11 <|amethyst> Medar: kobold lich might be one case where you'd want bread to be separate from other foods 13:55:42 There is always something :) 13:56:00 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:44 -!- yuastnav has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 13:56:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 13:57:24 kilobyte: just going to say, i like the idea of giving other staves a melee effect 13:57:56 i think conj is fine without one 13:57:57 staff of conj would be too much like devastator if it just exploded on every attack, but i think a weapon that makes enemies explode on death (with a larger AOE than devastator) would be entertaining 13:58:20 !send evilmike QUAD DAMAGE 13:58:21 Sending QUAD DAMAGE to evilmike. 13:58:22 meh, I think if you have it in the weapon slot, you might as well give some reason to hit things with it 13:58:33 hm, also true 13:58:52 it already enhances all the conjurations though 13:59:05 my thought was the damage bonus wouldn't be as good as the elemental staves, but the explosion would be an explosion. 13:59:09 which automatically makes it fun 13:59:09 imo it should definitely be weaker in melee than the elemental staves 13:59:12 yeah 13:59:22 <|amethyst> would it use conj skill I guess? 13:59:24 staff of conj is universal 13:59:33 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:42 (ok, except for shatter, refrig and airstrike) 13:59:46 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:50 also tornado :) 14:00:06 thats why it should be a bit worse in melee, since it's a better enhancer for the most part 14:00:14 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:17 but i dont see why it needs to be *useless* as a melee weapon 14:00:26 and charms, actually 14:00:49 staff of enchantments could reduce MR 14:00:55 we still have those? 14:00:58 staff of enchantments is gone i think? 14:00:58 I thought they were removed 14:01:23 enchances charms+hexes, gives MR based on max of these skills (used to to so unconditionally) 14:01:30 ??staff of enchantment 14:01:31 staff of enchantment[1/1]: Acts as an {enhancer} for charms and hexes, and gives 9 + 3*max(charms, hexes) additional {magic resistance}. Doesn't exist anymore. 14:01:40 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:01:43 they were removed, yes 14:01:47 spear of botono is the hex enhancer now 14:01:50 I dont think charms has one 14:01:54 archmagi 14:02:01 %git 0.12-a0-514-g618c8d0 14:02:01 03MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-514-g618c8d0: Remove staves of enchantment 10(9 months ago, 13 files, 23+ 38-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=618c8d0d9782 14:03:04 there's wizardry and power, too 14:03:07 <|amethyst> So, ignoring the tri-state thing, which I agree should be done but I'm not about to do right now 14:03:15 <|amethyst> The commits sitting in my queue: 14:03:27 Wasn't power merged with energy? 14:03:30 or was that channeling 14:03:37 evilmike: channeling 14:03:51 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:08 power was made to scale 14:04:09 did that actually happen? 14:04:10 <|amethyst> 1. make the food categories in \ : chunks, preserved meat, fruit, other food The latter is bread and honey/cheese, which isn't ideal, but probably toggling fruit separately is more useful 14:04:18 <|amethyst> 2. Split spellbooks and manuals 14:04:41 i don't know what a good effect for wizardry would be 14:04:47 <|amethyst> 3. add a minor tag so that the settings for the new categories are initialized from the old categories in old saves 14:04:54 |amethyst: what with book acq? 14:05:06 <|amethyst> kilobyte: split in the ap menu 14:05:17 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I'm not actually splitting the base type :) 14:05:17 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 14:05:18 |amethyst: what did you do with tome of destruction? 14:05:27 -!- Cerepol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:29 hmm good to know, I was just about to edit acquirement code 14:05:33 <|amethyst> Medar: it's under "spellbooks" for now 14:05:36 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:41 let's make the tome a misc item instead 14:05:42 <|amethyst> Medar: it should become a misc item as kilobyte said 14:05:47 yep, good 14:05:56 for staff of energy, draining energy from enemies would be amusing, but i dont want to give casters easy access to antimagic 14:06:02 <|amethyst> kilobyte: strong objections to my changes? 14:06:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I don't want to push something with a tag and have to revert it 14:06:25 no objections 14:06:57 Bad default targeting with poison spells by Sar 14:06:57 Crypt:5 vault message mentions liches even if they are dead by Medar 14:07:15 <|amethyst> (probably food should be its own top-level category there, but that can be changed trivially without any save compat issues) 14:07:57 <|amethyst> pushed, should be safe to fix tome of destruction now 14:08:49 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:10:19 cool; what I wanted to do is a minor fix to show invalid acq categories: currently only felids are special-cases 14:10:24 or rather, to now show 14:11:26 ah, I thought you're separating the base_type of books vs manuals 14:11:36 <|amethyst> nono 14:11:40 <|amethyst> just the menu 14:11:50 a bit less cool :p 14:11:59 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1051-gf22e063: Autopickup bread with "other food", make fruit separate. 10(55 minutes ago, 4 files, 14+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f22e063d1d63 14:11:59 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1052-g8e90592: Separate books and manuals in the autopickup menu. 10(12 minutes ago, 3 files, 16+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8e9059282a48 14:12:01 <|amethyst> that would take me a bit longer to do :) 14:12:10 <|amethyst> and I'm not sure if it would buy much 14:13:08 <|amethyst> BTW, it would be nice to get peoples' thoughts on #7082 (the KITEM: x = | vs KFEAT: x = | thing) 14:13:24 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:28 <|amethyst> in particular, how to solve it 14:14:01 <|amethyst> and which kinds of ISPEC_*s should use floor junk base type distribution versus acquirement/superb base type distribution 14:14:25 <|amethyst> and whether weapons should have double weight 14:15:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 14:15:26 <|amethyst> and why the sea is boiling hot, and whether pigs have wings 14:16:07 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:16:22 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:18:12 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:18:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:21:34 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:22:03 the crickets speak quite loud 14:23:13 |amethyst: can you summarize the KITEM vs KFEAT bit 14:23:27 or wait I could go read the bug 14:23:29 <|amethyst> SamB: If you use the | glyph 14:23:55 <|amethyst> I think I need to improve the summary 14:23:55 %bug 7082 14:23:55 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7082 14:24:14 <|amethyst> maybe not 14:24:54 <|amethyst> by KFEAT: x = | I mean "the | glyph" 14:25:04 <|amethyst> by KITEM: x = | I mean "superb_item" 14:27:10 Confirmation when no targets can be hit is more annoying than useful with cloud spells by Medar 14:27:17 why do we have a thing that gives equal weight to all item classes 14:27:41 <|amethyst> SamB: what thing? 14:27:46 I say that due to the commonness of using | as opposed to superb_item that all uses should just be | and the elf usage should just manually set items 14:28:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:28:43 <|amethyst> tenofswords: you mean make superb_item behave like the | glyph rather than the other way around? 14:28:55 or am I misunderstanding "choose uniformly" 14:28:56 Oh, cool. Cloud tiles below player/monster tiles. Kudos to whoever made that happen :) 14:29:04 <|amethyst> SamB: uniformly from a certain list of types 14:29:24 Medar: i believe that was mumra, and yeah, it's amazing 14:29:25 <|amethyst> SamB: scrolls, missiles, etc aren't on that list 14:29:31 |amethyst: yes 14:29:36 |amethyst: hmm 14:30:33 <|amethyst> SamB: the | glyph is not far from uniform 14:30:47 <|amethyst> SamB: weapons have double weight, and 1/10 of staff weight goes to rods instead 14:31:29 <|amethyst> SamB: (the other difference is that the glyph doesn't give wands while acquire_any does) 14:31:36 it's quite strange for "superb" items to give such a bias to staves vs rods 14:32:02 yes, rods are so well known as underpowered 14:32:02 <|amethyst> kilobyte: the 9:1 bias? 14:32:08 eah 14:32:13 s/^/y/ 14:32:15 kilobyte: quick, do an item-pick revamp 14:32:18 <|amethyst> how frequent should rods be? 14:32:21 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:25 <|amethyst> compared to staves 14:32:34 <|amethyst> this should also affect acquirement 14:33:38 acquirement handles rods differently 14:34:29 <|amethyst> first off, because this is an easy one: should 'any mundane', 'any damaged', and star_item use the floor junk distribution of base types instead? 14:34:40 <|amethyst> currently they cannot generate scrolls, potions, etc 14:34:40 80% chance for a rod unless you're skilled in magic, 100% with Trog 14:34:47 yes 14:35:06 yeah, I'm pretty sure * should generate fairly normal loot 14:35:34 "any damaged" would be meaningless for a scroll, as that's "good item with a negative enchantment" 14:36:09 <|amethyst> neither list is right for that 14:36:14 <|amethyst> since wands can't be damaged 14:36:20 <|amethyst> nor can most jewellery 14:36:55 <|amethyst> (the ones with plusses can, but it doesn't just pick from among those AFAIK) 14:36:58 how many of these things are used outside wizmode? 14:37:38 yeah, reducing plusses would make little sense as jewelry doesn't degreade (and can't be "repaired") 14:38:07 <|amethyst> SamB: looks like never for 'any mundane', 'any damaged', or 'any cursed' 14:38:19 |amethyst: two vaults 14:38:24 <|amethyst> kilobyte: which ones? 14:38:45 one actually, in two places: lasty_cornered_adventurer 14:38:46 SamB: agreed, * shouldn't be that special. it only adds a relatively small amount to the item's level, it's pretty much just for standard vault loot 14:38:54 <|amethyst> kilobyte: that's "any damaged armour" 14:38:55 | on the other hand could be treated specially 14:39:02 doh 14:39:02 <|amethyst> kilobyte: so there's no random choosing of the base type 14:39:06 yeah 14:39:25 <|amethyst> so since this doesn't affect anything, I guess those three are irrelevant 14:40:11 so, it seems we don't need to be particularly concernmed about preserving the intent behind "any mundane", "any damaged", or "any cursed" 14:40:17 <|amethyst> yeah 14:40:48 <|amethyst> my current thought for this first change: make only ISPEC_SUPERB and ISPEC_ACQUIREMENT use the special base-type list 14:41:10 <|amethyst> so ISPEC_GOOD (and the other three which are irrelevant) would use the same distribution as floor junk 14:41:40 not so sure, it's still used to mark better loot 14:42:09 <|amethyst> it also adjusts the levels 14:42:15 <|amethyst> so it wouldn't be giving you just floor junk 14:42:18 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1053-geaf4a15: Improve messaging of david_glass_crypt (Mantis #7090) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eaf4a15e24d4 14:42:20 Cloud targeting can leak information about unseen monsters by Medar 14:42:20 what do the levels do anyway? 14:42:23 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:42:36 which don't matter, other than not placing certain scrolls on the first few dlevels 14:43:01 <|amethyst> kilobyte: so should the * glyph be changed then? 14:43:06 curiously, acquirement being legal early but vorpalise and holy word not 14:43:08 ISPEC_GOOD slightly improves the chances of getting an unrand 14:43:26 mumra_: a GOOD unrand? 14:43:30 <|amethyst> vorpalise and holy word can kill you 14:43:33 no, just an unrand 14:43:56 well, I guess the more unrands the more chance that one is good 14:44:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:44:01 acquirement can just kill your spirit 14:44:05 probably 14:44:26 same for potions, level does nothing other than banning poison on D:1, berserk on D:1-2 and strong poison on D:1-10 14:44:27 <|amethyst> kilobyte: right now the * glyph uses the same base type distibution as floor junk, while star_item uses the same as superb_item and acquire any 14:44:41 ... yay 14:44:44 <|amethyst> kilobyte: They should behave the same IMO, so the question is which to side with 14:44:53 is it just * that makes unrands more likely, or is it the increase to the level that does it? 14:45:10 <|amethyst> evilmike: '*' glyph only increases depth afaict 14:45:12 how about we fix it to follow the documentation 14:45:32 <|amethyst> SamB: the documentation doesn't say what the distributions are 14:45:41 <|amethyst> SamB: just that two things are the same (when they're not) 14:45:46 for some reason i always thought that the depth had more of an effect on artifact generation 14:45:49 <|amethyst> SamB: so there are two ways of making it match the docs 14:45:50 evilmike: one_chance_in(item_level == MAKE_GOOD_ITEM ? 7 : 20) 14:45:56 huh 14:46:04 evilmike: that's the chance for an unrand (once you hit the randart code) 14:46:14 doesn't the documentation imply that the glyphs are implemented using the corresponding ITEM specs 14:46:31 <|amethyst> SamB: no 14:46:41 <|amethyst> SamB: '* "star_item" by itself makes an item equivalent to the "*" glyph.' 14:46:50 unrands get more likely deeper on, this line is just for the fraction of randarts being unrands 14:47:01 which stays the same 14:47:11 -!- rebthor has quit [Client Quit] 14:47:46 <|amethyst> I'm inclined to go with what tenofswords says and keep the glyphs the same since they're more commonly used; and change star_item/superb_item to match the glyphs 14:48:03 hmm 14:48:48 Medar: btw there are clouds drawn *over* monsters/items too with low opacity, i was going for an effect of the thing being engulfed by the cloud 14:48:49 how often does "KITEM: x = x" occur? 14:49:22 mumra_: for extra credit, get two tiles for each cloud and use one above and the other below 14:49:23 somewhat often because without the KITEM you can't have a monster or feature for that item 14:49:32 SamB: that's how i did it 14:49:37 oh right, two different tiles 14:49:47 yeah, different ones ;-) 14:49:50 <|amethyst> SamB: note that KITEM: | = | is equivalent to KITEM: x = superb_item 14:49:57 <|amethyst> SamB: just affects a different glyph 14:50:10 |amethyst: yeah, I got that 14:50:15 mumra_: Yeah, looks really good. 14:50:16 there was kind of no reason in the slightest to anticipate trying to make a given square's _feature_ an item would mean anything or even be needed 14:50:41 SamB: it'd be easy to use different tiles, but "someone" would have to draw them 14:50:44 -!- rkd has quit [] 14:50:54 Already found a bug, but I'll fix it :P (there is an item stack marker on single item within a cloud) 14:50:57 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:51:04 actually the cloud tiles could do with a little improvement, they look slightly cropped at the edges 14:51:27 Medar: oh, are you sure? that shouldn't have changed ... 14:51:32 Would having different tiles for the edges be too much to ask? 14:51:56 mumra_: The items didn't show at all in clouds before, so I just added the item stack marker there. 14:51:58 what's an edge 14:52:26 I mean having the center of a multitile cloud look different than the edge. Ermm. 14:52:47 Because currently like freezing cloud looks like bunch of individual clouds, instead of one big one. 14:52:49 |amethyst: so if we change this, those will change meaning; is that good? 14:52:52 Medar: i was thinking about this, kind of how webs are done 14:52:53 If you get what I mean. 14:53:03 Medar: actually it'd be nice to do this for some other stuff, e.g. trees 14:53:11 <|amethyst> SamB: what do you mean by "those"? 14:53:18 oh, for a second I thought this was wanting some edging like e.g. slime wall border overlays 14:53:35 |amethyst: the places that do say "KITEM: | = |" 14:53:35 <|amethyst> SamB: superb_item (and the "|" itemspec) will change meaning to the same as the "|" glyph 14:53:54 and similar 14:53:56 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:54:03 <|amethyst> SamB: I think so, since the authors of those lines intended them to work like the glyph 14:54:18 <|amethyst> SamB: and in some cases (e.g. elf and tomb) they were changed from using the glyph to using that 14:54:19 Medar: oh yeah i just saw that item stack bug in webtiles, if you're fixing it that's great 14:54:28 <|amethyst> SamB: presumably under the assumption that *that* wouldn't change anything 14:54:43 i thought this bug got fixed 14:54:51 where floors get wall tiles 14:55:12 <|amethyst> SamB: so elf and tomb would get twice as many weapons as currently, but they used to have twice as many weapons as currently 14:55:23 fine 14:55:30 ontoclasm: it should be 14:55:37 ontoclasm: Two little points I have noticed relating to new Crypt tiles 14:55:50 well, it's not: observe my webtiles game 14:55:51 ontoclasm: where are you see it? 14:56:01 ontoclasm: Firstly, I feel like ghostly flame clouds may be a touch too bright with them now being visible under the translucent spectrals 14:56:03 in a cave level of d 14:56:14 DracoOmega: oh yeah, i was going to change that 14:56:19 It sometimes makes them a little hard to see, I think? 14:56:22 of course that bug is still around 14:56:32 Secondly, ancient champion tiles are too similar to skeletal warriors, now that they are occuring in the smae place 14:56:38 ontoclasm: ok that's really weird, it looks like maybe a different manifestation of the bug tho 14:56:45 Like, you can tell the difference when next to each other, but not necessarily at a glance otherwise 14:56:50 okay, i can mess with skeletal champs too 14:56:58 ancient , whatever 14:57:02 Thanks :) 14:57:13 ontoclasm: see we told you they were too confusable 14:57:53 Well, I don't think it mattered when they didn't co-occur regularly 14:58:04 yeah 14:58:07 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:58:12 But sometimes I have mistaken a champion for a skeletal warrior now when it wanders up, and that's not so great given that it is much scarier 14:58:21 ontoclasm: i can't quite see what's going on there til you explore more of the map, it's quite worrying tho. it could vaguely be webtiles-only 14:58:25 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:27 maybe one should have glowing red eyes or something 14:58:31 the scary one 14:59:15 they need huge tricorn hats and wear loads of bling and and 14:59:18 mumra_: okay, i'll explore 15:00:39 ontoclasm: actually, can you take a save backup? 15:00:47 then i can check vaults and stuff 15:01:02 it's clearly a twisted_cavern layout but a vault placement has screwed up the tiles 15:01:11 i checked that loads, unless something has regressed the fix 15:01:59 yeah 15:02:48 http://dobrazupa.org/saves/ontoclasm-crawl-git-fb76507be2-130527-2002.tar.bz2 15:04:07 speaking of crypt, is there any plan for the layout still? (just curious, that's all) 15:04:17 i notice it has a lot of rather dungeony (sometimes cave like) maps 15:04:30 mumra_: That should fix the bug: http://pastebin.ca/2383355 15:04:53 <|amethyst> okay, I got a rod in a zig now 15:05:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:05:51 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:25 <|amethyst> and in Elf:3 15:07:02 evilmike: well i added some new layouts there already but i do have more of a plan. i posted some demo layouts yonks ago using the V code but i haven't got round to completing that. however i have slightly better algorithms now for creating room/corridor type layouts which is what i think crypt should be. 15:07:18 kind of a continuation of V-style layouts but a lot more cramped feeling 15:07:24 ah I remember those ones you posted 15:07:55 <|amethyst> this also means that scrolls and potions show up in elf:3 now 15:07:56 and yeah, rooms and corridors, and just generally defined structures are the way to go 15:08:03 <|amethyst> (as they used to in 0.11) 15:08:09 the cave-like stuff you can get is just completely wrong there imo 15:08:52 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:52 the cavey-looking ones were supposed to be more like run-down and collapsed rooms and corridors, but the way the generator turned out it sometimes gets a bit messy and starts looking like caves 15:10:53 evilmike: oh and for some reason layout_caves is enabled there, it totally shouldn't be 15:11:03 that's probably what I was noticing 15:11:19 oh wait it might have been layout_octagon and/or layout_cross but the spottified versions 15:11:19 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:11:45 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:12:01 i like the idea of having rubbled sections of the maps because the place is so old, but the overall structures should be recognisable certainly 15:12:14 -!- ahahahah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:15:09 for the time being i think i'll disable caves/octagon/cross, then later on probably disable the other standard D ones once the Crypt-specific layouts have been improved and a couple more added 15:15:38 sounds good 15:16:41 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 15:17:00 it's cool how the number of layouts has exploded, I think it's a realistic goal now to have each branch in the game use unique layouts (like swamp, shoals, vaults, etc do). with D, and probably Pan being the exceptiosn 15:17:08 basically i'm edging slowly towards all branches in some way having a unique layout set, we're actually quite close; Crypt and Snake are actually the ones left to do 15:17:15 ^ also what you said :P 15:17:15 crypt could get levels that are "crumbled" in some way 15:17:19 like lair's ruination 15:17:25 except different 15:17:29 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:31 |amethyst: Is this some kind of monster quirk? 15:17:33 red devil (054) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 22-40 | AC/EV: 7/13 | Dam: 19 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(65), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 296 | Sp: blink | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 15:17:33 %??red_devil 15:17:36 Sp: blink 15:17:41 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1054-g0ed75f1: Correct a comment 10(67 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0ed75f1d9415 15:17:41 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1055-g719950c: Don't mark elemental evokers as useless while inert 10(57 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=719950c8b686 15:17:41 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1056-g43735a6: Remove ghouls from summon undead; replace with jiangshi 10(56 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43735a65df6d 15:17:41 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1057-g1ee4129: Crypt monster rarity tweaks 10(53 minutes ago, 2 files, 12+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1ee41297a389 15:17:41 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1058-g35899cf: Recharge all carried elemental evokers at the same rate; slow recharge slightly 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 21-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=35899cf5ba79 15:17:41 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1059-gdaf1fe9: Reduce shadow AC a fair bit 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=daf1fe9ca54f 15:17:41 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1060-g56cd2e8: Reduce the number of shadows summoned by necro miscasts from 1-3 to 1-2 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=56cd2e8f121f 15:17:43 They don't have any spells 15:17:44 is that circular-ish one going to be made unique to zot? 15:17:45 elliott: yeah, i could maybe pick random circular areas and ruinate them, more in the center, 15:17:48 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: yes 15:17:52 I ask because it tends to produce cool looking zot:5's 15:18:06 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: if the monster is not where it was originally placed, monster assumes it had the blink special ability 15:18:06 mumra_: I was thinking instead of a uniform ruination of everything it would be small blocks of highly-ruined stuff 15:18:12 evilmike: Zot has three different layouts that are circularish 15:18:18 so it's like a part of the dungeon where a bunch of stuff collapsed 15:18:23 |amethyst: Oh dear 15:18:24 elliott: yes that's exactly what i mean 15:18:37 |amethyst: That's actually kind of scarily hackish, haha 15:18:48 mumra_: ah, thats a lot for it to be exclusive to a 5 level branch 15:18:49 |amethyst: wow 15:18:50 elliott: basically take some random areas and apply a heavy localised noise distortion 15:18:58 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: it does similar things for some other special abilities 15:19:01 still, I think its cool if branches (eventually) only use "exclusive" layouts 15:19:13 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:50 evilmike: well the three layouts are a little similar in feel but distinct algorithms. some of those layouts are used in other branches but with branch-specific variations. 15:20:16 i don't mind sometimes having layouts reused between branches, if they're localised in some way basically 15:20:25 yeah thats good 15:20:37 this works really well with the D/Lair thing, the layouts feel completely different in Lair 15:20:58 Incidentally, it has been brought to my attention that perhaps the ambient noise of Crypt shouldn't be so low now that it is scarier, since it tends to swarm the player a lot more with things that are actually kind of scary 15:21:39 a while back we discussed raising Zot's ambient noise a little too (more to account for the openness of the new layouts but still) 15:22:12 Crypt has more open layouts on average now, too, doesn't it? 15:22:17 In addition to already being really quiet 15:22:24 not hugely more open tbh 15:22:34 what's the point of the ambient noise setting, anyway? 15:22:46 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1061-gb8d3725: Fix punctuation. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b8d372507632 15:22:48 in fact i'll be disabling some of the really open standard D ones 15:22:48 it's pretty spoilery 15:22:48 the new Crypt layouts have corridors 15:22:54 and doors and everything 15:22:57 Well, it 'makes sense' that Crypt would be quiet, and thus your noise would be more obvious there 15:23:08 But I don't know that it plays well, or is too obvious in that way if you don't know what's going on 15:24:21 people don't know what makes noise 15:24:26 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:29 like nobody knows that meleeing on tomb:3 is kind of bad 15:24:38 uh 15:24:44 (except people who do know that) 15:24:52 (by "nobody" I mean people who haven't been told this) 15:25:03 people know it's kind of bad because it means being face to face with a horde of greater mummies 15:25:16 it can be alright if you cast silence... but that tends to make noise considerations go out the windo 15:25:17 w 15:25:19 as a dump pubbie myself i guess i would say that i know what makes noise, but not how -much- noise 15:25:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:25:44 as in, it's not at all clear if a dude 2 steps out of LoS will hear me hit this guy 15:25:49 evilmike: well, I usually hear people complaining that coming face to face with a hoard of greater mummies is inevitable on tomb:3 after they died and then I ask and it turns out they were meleeing a ton or whatever and didn't know that it makes a bunch of noise and that noise is really loud in tomb 15:25:53 melee is loud, tloc spells make noise after you land, not when you cast. other than that i think its mostly intuitive 15:25:58 I mean, it wasn't actually obvious to me that these places magnified noise, even after playing them a lot. Probably I would just assume that attention was attracted in larger numbers just due to hapenstance 15:26:06 also people don't realise things like almost every spell makes noise proportional to its level and stuff 15:26:26 Sure, more things actually show up, but that could just be because they happened to be closer at the time? Or rolled better on their perception? 15:27:16 elliott: noise really isn't the main factor. it's just that melee is weaker than setting off an atomic bomb 15:27:24 -!- gvdm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:30 my main strategy is to usually destroy the place with level 9 spells. can't get much louder, but it's super easy 15:27:51 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-1062-gd0845bd: Reduce ghostly flame opacity 10(22 minutes ago, 3 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d0845bd2e779 15:27:51 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-1063-g9a04efb: More distinctive ancient champion 10(7 minutes ago, 3 files, 1+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9a04efbefeb7 15:28:31 well, I think it is unintuitive that for a melee character on tomb:3 you want to go upstairs before doing any melee (even without smiters or whatever) because otherwise you make loads of noise and attract everything 15:29:09 somebody needs to make a vault with an ancient lich guards by some ancient champions now 15:29:25 ancient_vault 15:29:36 has to be 12x12 15:29:36 I'm working on crypt minivaults right now, actually 15:29:43 evilmike: by the way, there is sil action on termcast.org if you are interested in watching 15:29:49 Does it have a 1 in 100 chance of an ancient zyme too? 15:29:50 <_< 15:29:51 (and dying over and over because I am playing lazybad) 15:29:57 st_: cool. any interesting build? 15:30:11 tenofswords: sounds good, just don't cause the new monsters to decend into awful gimmicks :P 15:30:18 make some cool nasty vaults with revenants 15:30:22 elliptic is playing a flanking type guy 15:30:31 ah, melee. going to watch 15:30:42 you can watch my exciting smithing 15:30:46 I will reserve horrible gimmicks for later tartarus work 15:30:54 tenofswords: by the way, seems like crypt vaults are too rare to me 15:31:02 I hardly ever see people get them 15:31:14 i still dont get why they design sil around non-scumming, and then come up with something like smithing 15:31:36 there are probably a bunch of decorative minivaults not properly tagged as extra but I'd like to lower the dummy for crypt 15:31:54 if there's enough content to warrant it ,feel free 15:32:12 is playing sil without all the extra term windows annoying? 15:32:13 a ridiculous amount of vaults spawn in crypt, they're just split between crypt and D 15:32:17 should some of the nastier new Crypt monsters be added to Tar as well? 15:32:20 i'm so used to the multiwindow interface in *bands 15:32:33 Yes, probably it makes sense for some of them to be in Tar 15:32:42 it's a little annoying, you do lose a bunch of information 15:32:46 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:32:46 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:48 but I can deal with it 15:32:55 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1076-gabcf4c5: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into forest_redux 10(5 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=abcf4c53252c 15:32:55 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1077-g21a211b: Tweaks relevant to Forest vaults. 10(17 minutes ago, 4 files, 196+ 16-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=21a211bbaa69 15:32:55 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1078-g49be743: One more minor addition to the Forest monster set. 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=49be7437f47b 15:32:55 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1079-g65ce3f5: Remove reference to removed ability in Pan's description. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=65ce3f59623a 15:32:57 mumra_: don't make tar into mega-crypt. but i think overall the hell monster lists should be redone, and tar should have nasty undead spawn from hell effects 15:33:06 i'd rather see 1 lich than wight pack #52423 15:33:35 Well, like I think revenants can make sense to show up in Tar sometimes 15:33:36 does attacking a firefly corona you 15:33:38 because it should 15:33:45 tar is also a bit more... silency than other hells. maybe there could be lorocyprocas or something 15:33:49 ontoclasm, heh. 15:34:09 evilmike: yeah, all the hells are a bit weird, there could be a general revamp of hell effects too 15:34:42 the timing for hell effects needs to die. the miscast stuff is fairly meh. I like the monster spawning effects though - simple, but effective 15:34:51 and overall it's more fun than randomly exploding you 15:35:57 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: btw, regarding 'monster' funniness 15:36:08 You explode! You die... 15:36:09 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: if (you.hp == PLAYER_MAXHP / 2 + 1) beam.name = "symbol of torment"; 15:36:14 .... 15:36:29 |amethyst: o_O??? 15:36:37 Surely there must be a better way for it to work 15:36:50 Geh/Coc should get flame/ice spreaders with Draco's new cloud spreader code 15:36:55 <|amethyst> Grunt: it has to use empirical methods to determine what a monster's mon_special_ability() does 15:37:10 <|amethyst> Grunt: because that's handled entirely in code with no tables for monster to look at 15:37:14 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:37:25 |amethyst: what are you looking at, exactly? 15:37:33 i had this other idea for multi-cell sentient clouds that chase you around but probably spawning spreaders is enough 15:37:34 (please turn special abilities into spells) 15:37:40 spellcial ability 15:37:40 <|amethyst> elliott++ 15:37:47 Well, there are reasons not to, actually 15:37:47 <|amethyst> Grunt: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=monster-trunk.git;a=blob;f=monster-main.cc;h=79dde9db46b4f743009c7f31f24ad596fb53d4b3;hb=refs/heads/bleeding-edge-crawl 15:37:51 so it... applies the effect to you, then checks to see if it halved your hp? horrifying 15:38:00 DracoOmega: like what? I know the AI handles them differently 15:38:04 but it could just as well handle a spell marked as special differently 15:38:07 I mean, theoretically the code could be changed so this wasn't the case, but there are several ways in which the difference is meaningful gameplay-wise 15:38:22 probably it would be a net decrease in code 15:38:27 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: as DracoOmega noticed earlier, something similarly silly happens to detect the 'blink' special ability 15:38:29 Special abilities allow you to control the chance of using them a lot more directly, are not affected by antimagic when the monster might have spells that are 15:38:43 And probably a few other things not immediately coming to mind 15:38:45 I think spells should have that flexibility anyway 15:38:50 Yes, possibly they should 15:38:55 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: there's a half-written patch by eronarn for part of that 15:38:57 like, if spell slots were more flexible there would be no need for special abilities 15:39:00 But I mean, just converting them into 'spells' at the moment would not work out well 15:39:08 Also, some special abilities take no energy to use 15:39:12 Unlike spells 15:39:13 <|amethyst> right, this would have to be part of a spell overhaul 15:39:15 well yes that's why it was a parenthical rather than a finished patch :P 15:39:35 Heh, fair enough 15:39:37 <|amethyst> I could imagine monster spells with different casting times for example 15:39:40 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:39:45 |amethyst: i saw eronarn's patch on mantis, my opinion was it's a good idea but the patch needs doing over from scratch 15:39:49 <|amethyst> s/spells/abilities/ 15:39:53 <|amethyst> mumra_: yeah 15:40:30 Though it actually seems like 'monster' could handle special abilities better if it were just TOLD what the monster's ability was in some kind of lookup table for it itself 15:40:33 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:40:36 Since they can't be changed by vault redefines anyway 15:40:44 <|amethyst> mumra_: not to disparage Eronarn at all, he has good ideas, but there are reasons you, DracoOmega, etc have been asked to join the devteam and he has not 15:41:01 <|amethyst> mumra_: code quality being the main reason 15:43:10 I have wanted to make spell slot positions not be arbitrarily special-cased and stuff before, so maybe I will look at this after I am done with this patch 15:43:39 I think the whole thing is a very large undertaking, though I do approve of the intent 15:43:51 It would be nice to have somewhat finer control over the liklihood of casting various spells, for example 15:43:57 indeed 15:44:09 So that you could make one spell a lot more common/rare instead of just fitting it in multiple slots 15:44:13 Which doesn't work so well in some cases 15:44:29 and get rid of hacks like SPELL_MELEE (which serves to reduce the chance of casting) 15:44:31 current system works, but its a bit ugly to pad stuff out with SPELL_MELEE when the ideal system would use weights for each spell, or something like that 15:44:38 Yeah 15:44:49 <|amethyst> evilmike: it works, if you don't mind doing a lot of experimentation when making a monster 15:44:51 DracoOmega: one of my first patches was 959+ 1282-, so i am used to having to change a lot of stuff :P 15:45:02 Yow, what did that one do? 15:45:08 it was the levitation -> flight one 15:45:12 admittedly a lot of those changes were simple 15:45:15 but going over them all was painful 15:45:18 Wait, there was seriously THAT much code just for that? 15:45:21 <|amethyst> evilmike: since I (and I suspect most devs) have no idea how to figure out the frequency with which the monster will try its various spells 15:45:22 welcome to crawl! 15:45:25 i can believe it 15:45:33 <|amethyst> evilmike: it's kind of like old mon-pick :) 15:45:34 Hey, I've read tons of Crawl code and am still surprised at that 15:45:59 |amethyst: yeah I don't either. I've crudely tested it in game, but nothing more than that 15:46:13 Well, the way it works makes it really hard to calculate the real chance 15:46:25 this is why i stay in tilepick.cc >.> 15:46:26 Due to differing ways in which differing spells are vetoed 15:46:31 i don't believe you need to design monsters with extreme precision though. just tweak it until it feels like it works 15:46:32 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:46:44 Yes, it does work out fairly okay in practice 15:46:54 mumra_: is layout_gridlike one of yours? and do you know if it could be responsible for the weird vault thing in my cdo game that doesn't appear to be an actual vault? 15:46:55 But there are a few things that would be nicer still 15:47:07 the nice thing about nobody knowing exactly how something works is that you don't have to preserve it exactly when cleaning it up 15:47:14 (i shattered it because it annoyed me, it used to have more trees) 15:47:50 MarvinPA: yeah there are rectangles of stuff sometimes generated in the layout, i was starting to experiment with generating extra architecture in the rooms 15:48:05 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1064-gbb8cc22: Make item specs versus item glyphs consistent (#7082, #6281). 10(37 minutes ago, 1 file, 34+ 26-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bb8cc227b8e0 15:48:07 but it was perhaps ill-advised 15:48:08 But there's also things like a monster's chance of casting a spell at ALL being dependent on HD mainly, I think? And you might want to make some low HD stuff still favor casting more strongly over meele 15:48:10 ontoclasm: btw. is there some reason why there is no fancy icon for summoned monsters? 15:48:11 And currently you can't really do that 15:48:23 yeah, it really sticks out here at least 15:48:36 might work better in normal levels 15:48:48 was it just that it had trees? 15:48:54 there's a list of inner/outer feature combos 15:48:55 and a pool of water 15:48:57 Medar: because nobody's asked and i've never decided to, basically 15:49:02 yeah 15:49:17 does that seem like something useful? 15:49:22 Oddly it hadn't actually occured to me to want such a thing 15:49:33 But now that it is mentioned, it may not be a bad idea? 15:49:35 i'll do something about it, i was meaning to restrict certain things in certain branches anyway 15:49:48 ontoclasm: I would certainly find it useful. It's one of the few I still have to check the old-fashioned way with all the new icons. 15:49:51 it just looks nothing like any of the pan extra vaults, those are all blood fountains and demons and things :P 15:49:55 ontoclasm: Thanks for the new champion tile, by the way 15:50:05 okay, i'll look into it 15:50:38 DracoOmega: no prob, it's fun doing little edits like that 15:51:16 ontoclasm: bewildered vs. confused etc. (question marks) is the other one I would personally like to see improved 15:51:41 ...? bewildered and confused are the same thing 15:51:47 do you mean confused vs. unaware? 15:51:53 ah, yes 15:51:58 wandering or whatever it's called 15:52:01 Oh, there is no icon for a confused thing which is friendly 15:52:07 Like I thought ? meant confused, but it doesn't 15:52:13 It's just that it's so much more rare to have confused allies 15:52:17 no, it means "semi-stabbable" 15:52:29 Yeah, but it really does look like, in many cases, it is just indicating 'confused' 15:52:37 oh, i agree 15:52:43 yeah, having all those separated would be nice imo. Confused allies can be really scary for sure. 15:52:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 15:53:16 All the others I can think of are really rare, like single unique stuff (death's door, deflect missiles etc.), those are probably not worth the trouble 15:53:40 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:54:24 Altough maybe general "has status" icon could work, so you realize to check what's going on 15:54:34 In cases where a specific icon isn't available 15:54:42 maybe... that seems like it would be difficult to code 15:54:50 Well, deflect missiles is not actually a status effect 15:54:54 since it would have to check for every possible status 15:54:55 It's a flag that the monsters with it always have 15:55:04 So it's not something that can actually change 15:55:09 DracoOmega: Oh, didn't know that 15:55:41 but i'm pretty sure "summoned" is easy to check 15:56:03 Yes. Well, there is ENCH_ABJ and ENCH_FAKE_ABJ 15:56:15 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:16 Note that there are perma-summons and normal summons. 15:56:18 Possibly both should be indicated the same way, though 15:56:22 what's fake_abj? 15:56:27 durable? 15:56:27 The icon wouldn't mean 'abjurable' then, though 15:56:33 Well, stuff like sticks to snakes 15:56:34 stuff that will time out but can't be abjured 15:56:38 ah 15:56:41 That will expire, but isn't abjurable, yes 15:56:52 For the icon, I think 'temporary' is good enough 15:56:56 sticks to snakes, simulacrum, death channel mainly 15:57:08 Since it is usually easy to tell whether a temporary thing is abjurable without examining it, anyway 15:57:20 But not always easy to tell when it is temporary 15:57:31 When, say, a vampire mage is spamming summon undead around a bunch of other undead 15:57:34 >.> 15:57:37 hah 15:57:57 Also with monsters reading scrolls of summoning :) 15:58:18 <|amethyst> elliott: re recite, here's what I would do if I were feeling ambitious 15:58:48 <|amethyst> elliott: 1. write the holy books of Zin (maybe just a page or so of text each), store them in the db 15:59:10 <|amethyst> elliott: 2. pick random substrings from those for the message 15:59:16 "write[...]books" 15:59:19 ...ambitious indeed :b 15:59:30 |amethyst: that sounds annoying compared to reusing the existing messages for now :P 15:59:30 <|amethyst> Grunt: "a page or so of text each" :P 15:59:34 though it would make the messages even cuter 15:59:45 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:59:48 <|amethyst> you could even let the player read the books in ^! 16:00:00 <|amethyst> purely flavour, but then so are quotes 16:00:09 <|amethyst> speaking of quotes, do any of the new monsters have them? 16:00:19 No 16:00:30 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:00:48 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:43 -!- omniguy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:09:49 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:13:11 -!- ahpla has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:13:49 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:14:29 if you cast tukima's, does the dancing weapon count as summoned 16:14:32 surely not 16:14:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:15:39 Well, it's not abjurable, no 16:15:51 But it's still temporary 16:15:59 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:17:21 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:24 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1065-g7477cf5: Remove a duplicate quote. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7477cf55c0c1 16:18:24 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1066-g27e003e: A quote for Tartarus and its entrances. 10(71 seconds ago, 2 files, 12+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=27e003e2db97 16:22:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:28 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1080-g9b3185b: Enemy tengu adjustments. 10(6 minutes ago, 7 files, 55+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9b3185bbfeb2 16:24:44 mumra_: Can you push that item marker cloud fix, or should I put on Mantis? 16:24:52 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:25:11 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:28:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:30:29 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:35 03Translators 07* 0.13-a0-1067-gabd9c2f: [Transifex] Sync. 10(3 minutes ago, 22 files, 171+ 322-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=abd9c2f2059e 16:35:07 Medar: will do, just got distracted by blackadder 16:35:12 what's the easiest way to make a durable summon in wizmode 16:35:29 royal jelly 16:35:34 mumra_: cool, no problem 16:35:59 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:36:11 Or god wrath 16:36:28 I am not sure TRJ spawns are durably summoned 16:36:29 or hells 16:36:30 mumra_: looks like they're real 16:36:31 Just flagged for no exp 16:36:35 hells might be best 16:36:50 Aren't hell effect spawns worth actual xp though? 16:36:56 ah right yeah, trj spawns have M_NO_EXP 16:37:35 hell summons are real too 16:37:45 the only relevant thing about durable summons is that they have no experience 16:37:57 i just want to make sure they get the icon 16:37:58 since for all other purposes they are real monsters 16:38:04 normal summons do 16:38:05 i suppose they can be abjured? 16:38:18 no, they're immune to abjuration 16:38:19 i'm just wondering what the icon communicates 16:38:21 but they do time out 16:38:26 oh right 16:38:35 "temporary" is what i'm going for 16:38:40 well i think you can use dur: in a monspec 16:38:49 god wrath durable summons don't (all) time out do they? 16:40:07 oka makes durable ones afaik 16:40:19 guess they won't drop items 16:42:06 Well, durable summons don't time out at all, yes? 16:42:11 Isn't that what's durable about them? 16:42:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:42:59 ontoclasm: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps:syntax:monster_info#summons 16:43:43 Add Zin support for Silver by pubby 16:44:07 ontoclasm: but if i remember correctly, dur sets a duration for the summons, but otherwise it doesn't actually count as a summon 16:46:59 <|amethyst> "durable summon" means M_HARD_RESET | M_NO_EXP and don't actually count as summoned for most purposes 16:47:09 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:47:49 -!- mumra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:08 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:42 <|amethyst> "summoned" by itself means "has ENCH_ABJ or ENCH_SUMMON" 16:48:50 -!- Egglet has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:48:59 <|amethyst> minus a few things 16:49:25 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:50:56 -!- Soyweiser_ has quit [] 16:52:15 mons syntax defines it a little differently for the purposes of creating them ;) this is something i should probably fix really 16:53:52 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-1068-g2ca824d: Don't show bogus item stack marker in clouds 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2ca824d910df 16:53:54 <|amethyst> err, MF_HARD_RESET | MF_NO_REWARD 16:56:21 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:58:03 i think if a monster isn't going to time out it's not so useful knowing that it's summoned; maybe it can be communicated differently. maybe temporary summons could be slightly transparent or flicker in and out? 16:58:56 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1081-g1d8600c: Forest monster weight tweaks. 10(85 seconds ago, 2 files, 19+ 17-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d8600c3b998 16:59:37 mumra: Yes, I'm under the understanding this icon is meant to communicate 'temporary' and not 'summoned' per se 17:00:13 Since 'abjurable' is usually unambiguous in most cases, if you know they're temporary 17:00:53 yes, that's the important information, from a tactical point of view. "receives no exp" is kind of relevant but it's not so important to know at a glance, and it's common stuff like pikel slaves. 17:01:51 Yes 17:03:25 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:08:04 <|amethyst> MF_HARD_RESET means its equipment will go away when it dies 17:08:11 <|amethyst> I believe 17:08:13 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:16 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:14 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:17 ...so, what should i be testing? 17:10:28 currently i'm checking MB_SUMMONED 17:10:41 <|amethyst> I think that's fine 17:10:48 -!- ilyak has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:11:05 <|amethyst> the other would be MB_PERM_SUMMON but I don't know if there's a need to display that 17:12:57 <|amethyst> however 17:13:07 <|amethyst> there are some temporary things that don't have MB_SUMMONED 17:13:17 <|amethyst> things like tukima weapons, battlesphere, IOOD 17:13:20 can you just check for a +ve duration? 17:13:36 well, those things probably shouldn't have this icon 17:13:38 (tukima weapons already have a special icon of course) 17:13:39 <|amethyst> mumra: this is a monster_info 17:14:39 <|amethyst> mumra: so you don't have numbers that would leak information 17:15:21 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: sounds like MB_SUMMONED is fine then 17:15:30 well, what causes the "this monster is summoned" text to appear in the monster's description? 17:15:44 or in fact, (summoned) on the description line 17:15:46 btw, somebody make it so that ugly thing zombies can get spawned 17:15:53 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:15:53 dunno if that's intentional 17:15:58 made* 17:16:02 <|amethyst> mumra: MB_SUMMONED, and MB_PERM_SUMMON for the "dummoned in a durable way" message 17:16:21 <|amethyst> s/dummo/summo/ 17:17:01 i wouldn't want to get durably sumo'd 17:17:39 so, interesting question for you all : 0.13 release schedule 17:17:47 "never" 17:17:59 <|amethyst> Dohyo of a Thousand Years 17:18:02 maybe we should start with the name and work backwards this time :P 17:18:08 release after the tourney 17:18:10 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:18:18 just to mix things up 17:18:33 well it's after the tourney now 17:18:33 clearly should use creepypasta for the reference 17:18:49 no, after the 0.13 tourney 17:19:01 i realise that's what you meant ;) 17:19:11 i was being silly 17:19:23 who cares about 0.x.0 anyway 17:19:28 0.x.1 is the best 17:20:33 0.13.(-1) 17:20:36 <|amethyst> previous several releases have been about 3300 commits 17:20:46 <|amethyst> from -a0 to .0 17:21:15 wow 17:21:17 <|amethyst> we're currently at 1067 after about two months 17:21:18 quick, add a thousand new quotes all in seperate commits 17:21:22 and that's AFTER DracoOmega squashed everything! 17:21:33 <|amethyst> so four months from now sounds good :) 17:21:39 fake some reversion wars 17:21:40 0.13: the biggest release 17:21:47 <|amethyst> OTOH, tournament in August works better than later 17:21:51 <|amethyst> because of school 17:22:09 well there are already enough features on the table to make a good release 17:22:18 More!! 17:22:24 -!- Helmschank_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:22:26 :P 17:22:31 hehe 17:23:06 not enough removal for adequate balance 17:23:14 fr remove lair 17:23:21 if we had feature freeze at beginning of august, that's plenty of time for you to add in about 3 more major overhauls DracoOmega 17:23:24 and every monster that can spawn there 17:23:30 fortunately dracoomega seems to have removed lots of monsters and replaced them with new monsters that have the same name 17:23:34 mumra: Haha 17:23:44 tenofswords: Also, ha :P 17:24:12 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-1069-g2a3e781: Status icon for summoned monsters. 10(4 minutes ago, 7 files, 12+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2a3e78193c95 17:24:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:34 -!- calebpearce has quit [Quit: calebpearce] 17:27:04 we probably need a massively controversial removal. since nausea and stabbing went down pretty well, and i'm sure nobody will hate mechanical traps disappearing 17:27:14 get rid of Haste or something 17:27:40 <|amethyst> mumra: well, if we add three more races we'll have 27 17:27:52 <|amethyst> mumra: and while 27 is a good number, there aren't enough letters 17:28:06 haha 17:28:15 put demonspawn on & 17:28:19 well there are 3 types of elf, surely one of them is prime for the chop? 17:28:33 -!- Vidiny has quit [Quit: [23:08] <@Sunny> "you have to show me your little kuriboh"] 17:28:53 <|amethyst> remove deep elves "they're too similar to tengu" 17:30:05 <|amethyst> or high elves 17:30:08 deep elves are kind of interesting because they're the best at magic 17:30:12 <|amethyst> yeah 17:30:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:30:19 <|amethyst> high elves are the best at lbl but 17:30:21 yeah high elves are sort of like the mountain dwarves of the elf world 17:30:49 what's lbl? 17:30:53 <|amethyst> long blades 17:31:05 <|amethyst> !apt lbl 17:31:05 Could not understand "lbl" 17:31:08 <|amethyst> !apt long 17:31:09 Long: HE: 2!, Mi: 2!, HO: 1, Mf: 1, Te: 1, Vp: 0, Ha: 0, Op: 0, Dr: 0, DD: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, SE: -1, DE: -1, Ce: -1, Gh: -1, Mu: -2, Sp: -2, Tr: -2, Ko: -2, Og: -3*, Fe: N/A 17:31:11 High elves are sufficiently distinct, in my mind, even if they're less distinct than some races, perhaps 17:31:27 ...why not sludge elves 17:31:35 they don't even have a theme 17:31:46 <|amethyst> sludge elves are kind of like merfolk without swimming or good polearms 17:31:47 sludge elves have a much more different flavour though 17:32:01 high elves are as standard fantasy as you can get 17:32:17 well yeah, but what the heck is sludge elves' theme? 17:32:24 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: transmutation 17:32:26 elves that are good at [list of things] 17:32:29 <|amethyst> I guess 17:32:38 <|amethyst> !apt se 17:32:39 SE: Fighting: 1, Short: -1, Long: -1, Axes: -2, Maces: -2, Polearms: -2, Staves: 0, Slings: 0, Bows: 0, Xbows: 0, Throw: 2, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 2, Stab: 0, Shields: -2, Traps: 0, UC: 1!, Splcast: 1, Conj: -2, Hexes: 0, Charms: -2, Summ: 1, Nec: 1, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 3!, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Air: 1, Earth: 1, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 0, HP: -1, MP: 1 17:32:50 this is usually where eronarn steps in to fight the sludge elf's corner 17:32:53 <|amethyst> transmutations and elements 17:33:17 <|amethyst> I believe SE has the highest average elemental aptitude 17:33:31 <|amethyst> no one else has positive numbers across the board 17:33:38 i think elliptic supported sludge elf removal once! 17:33:38 so you're encouraged to... go all four elements? 17:33:41 (i do too) 17:33:52 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: I suggested once making them ignore antitraining 17:34:06 <|amethyst> no one liked the idea very much 17:34:12 i liked the idea to rename high elf to not have elf in the name also, that would work better if it left only one elf species 17:34:12 sounds cool to me 17:34:20 that's quite intriguing 17:35:13 i think the confusing thing about three kinds of elves is, who really knows what an elf is anyway? so the distinction between three kinds of them is arbitrary at best 17:35:57 <|amethyst> FR: santa elves 17:36:09 elvish impersonators 17:36:10 elves are these alien abducting jerks who don't understand normal morality and play all day long 17:36:13 wait 17:36:37 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:37:30 <|amethyst> tenofswords: no, grey elves were removed 17:38:28 if only glamour didn't suck 17:38:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:39:15 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:42 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:07 I'm certainly not the first one to comment on this... but DracoOmega's changes are amazing. So creative, so massive! 17:41:08 dpeg: You have 12 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:41:19 Whereas I only collect messages. 17:41:35 <|amethyst> dpeg: did you hear Grunt is working on forest? 17:41:51 Well, I read the change log every morning :) 17:42:01 <|amethyst> it's still in a branch now, which is why I asked 17:42:02 0.13 has lots of cool new content already. 17:42:34 dpeg: Thanks :) 17:42:35 <|amethyst> and three new races potentially 17:42:42 wonderful! 17:42:44 <|amethyst> also still in branches 17:42:58 <|amethyst> though I don't know if all three would fit, even one would be great 17:43:13 <|amethyst> s/fit/fit or work out balancewise/ 17:43:24 One is kilobyte's djinn{i|s}, whatever their freaking plural is; they have lots of potential, imo. What are the others? 17:43:33 djinni duh 17:43:43 <|amethyst> djinn, grotesk, and maybe lava orcs 17:43:53 grotesk, right 17:43:53 or is it just djinn 17:44:06 <|amethyst> djinni singular, djinn plural 17:44:13 oh, how confusing 17:44:15 <|amethyst> at least kilobyte mentioned trying to get all three into an experimental branch on one of the servers 17:44:17 Of course, I'd love it if 0.13 also had a little religious content =) 17:44:39 dpeg: i promise i will dust off the demigods branch soon ;) 17:44:47 jpeg sent me a patch yesterday which takes a string (e.g. a player name) and makes a new name out of it; for random god purposes. 17:44:48 Xenu unique? 17:44:59 mumra: <3 <3 <3 17:45:19 he, uh, explodes the volcano or something 17:45:23 of course a whole new god or even infinite permutations of gods would be good too :) 17:45:24 <|amethyst> dpeg: grunt's patch has Pan as a monster... is that religious content? :) 17:45:29 <|amethyst> s/patch/branch/ 17:45:59 |amethyst: I don't think so... but I must demand that we don't let slip the opportunity for Pan/Pan double entendres! 17:46:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:46:27 And if it is only a Pan (the monster) special, if rare, vault for Pan (the branch). 17:46:32 what no peter pan or anything 17:46:44 <|amethyst> SamB: well, he *is* a satyr 17:46:46 * dpeg hands SamB a Peter instead. 17:47:07 |amethyst: we have other uniques that were considered gods back in the day. 17:47:21 SamB: sorry, that was supposed to be a Paul. 17:47:28 apparantly Pan is an office anyway so it could be a satyr 17:48:02 DracoOmega: It seems you have a very consistent plan to go through undead, demons, etc., including Crypt. What's next? 17:48:17 Well, I'd like to in general touch up boring monsters to make them less boring 17:48:26 Crypt just happened to be a noted concentration of them 17:48:30 DracoOmega: and you're really good at it! 17:48:31 There are still plenty elsewhere, though 17:48:47 <|amethyst> dpeg: true... tiamat, the mummies, ereshkigal... any others I'm forgetting? 17:48:51 I have my eye on a few other things like gargoyles, manticores, aquatic monsters... 17:49:07 I have a number of ideas, but may want a little break after all this work here, for a bit :) 17:49:08 |amethyst: some of the hell lords? 17:49:18 DracoOmega: sure thing! 17:49:51 Does random god stuff count as relaxation? :) 17:49:52 <|amethyst> dpeg: oh, dispater 17:51:14 jpeg started playing Crawl again (she never really played it much), and commented at length about how much better the levels look now. Especially the layouts, all the new serial vaults... it really makes a difference. 17:51:14 <|amethyst> not sure whether to count Asmodeus (would one count Satan? being the chief opponent in a monotheistic religion) 17:51:44 |amethyst: I know some people who believe in Satan but they're ... even weirder than Crawl players. 17:52:23 DracoOmega: ah, I meant to ask another one: do you have more ideas for miscies? 17:52:49 Well, I do mean to get to the other neglected ones, like say box of beasts, but haven't given them much deliberate thought yet 17:52:50 <|amethyst> misc item of local global! 17:52:54 -!- zardo has quit [Client Quit] 17:53:12 |amethyst: base type Spectral Sequence? Would almost make sense in the Crawl world! 17:53:16 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:54:00 (math joke) 17:54:25 <|amethyst> static 17:54:28 I had considered making a couple scrolls like ?vuln and ?silence into consumable misc items, since currently I feel they are so rare yet useful so situationally that they will almost always get destroyed before you can use them 17:54:32 <|amethyst> (C joke) 17:55:19 -!- Sepik1211 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:56:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: BRB, DEAD] 17:57:06 <|amethyst> who was working on water monsters? 17:57:07 DracoOmega: funny you say that, as Brogue recently does something similar. I think it's a good idea, because with misc items there is a skill to be exploited. 17:58:34 |amethyst: I don't know that anyone actually was. Just that some discussion had occured. 17:59:06 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 17:59:11 water elementals would be good water monsters if they actually spawned in the water instead of anywhere past absdepth 24 with water on the floor 17:59:18 now that they drown 17:59:30 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:34 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1070-g9906e82: Typo fix 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9906e82a2155 17:59:36 -!- Sepik121 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:41 Yes, I do mean to do that 17:59:49 Along with several other things 17:59:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:01:34 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:02:32 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: You hit the RAID! Its magical defenses are striped away! 18:02:39 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:02:50 o_0 I saw your stack of commits, DracoOmega! 18:02:54 Hehe 18:03:09 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:03:12 A fair bit of time and effort there :) 18:05:35 I might have 88 commits to dcss ever :) 18:05:49 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:06:07 DracoOmega is sitting in a closet somewhere on the Northern hemisphere and hacking away at a major version's worth of commits! 18:06:15 <|amethyst> bh: 193 18:06:20 I'll have you know my room is more comfortable than THAT 18:06:20 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:06:21 We have no idea what he's up to, but it will be good. 18:06:30 <|amethyst> ??git-stats 18:06:31 gitstats[1/2]: http://s-z.org/crawl-stats/ — updated infrequently 18:06:36 maybe DracoOmega is the borg. 18:06:37 <|amethyst> Updated yesterday 18:06:41 DracoOmega: aha, closet de luxe :) 18:07:10 dpeg: does that count authored commits or just committed commits? 18:07:49 heck, I wouldn't know! 18:08:14 I'm there, so authored 18:08:41 I don't suppose there is a pre-existing function to pick a random index into a FixedVector weighed by the values at those indices 18:08:47 Vault contributions so skew the loc totals :P 18:08:48 I still think dol is a bot. 18:09:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:23 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 18:09:24 what the heck happened in late 2009 18:09:27 <|amethyst> "Author" but that's not always the author 18:09:35 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:42 lines of code dropped by like 200000 18:09:59 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: maybe contribs moving to submodules? 18:10:36 jpeg has a weird domain: c06c8d41-db1a-0410-9941-cceddc491573 18:10:49 <|amethyst> bh: all the SVN-era commits show up like that I think 18:10:53 ah! 18:10:55 <|amethyst> or a bunch do 18:11:17 elliott: random_weighted_from does something very similar 18:11:39 elliott: there might already be exactly the function you need (there certainly is in Lua but that's not very useful to you) 18:11:51 will take a look, thanks 18:12:34 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: yes 18:12:42 <|amethyst> %git 9d51433 18:12:43 03neunon * 0.6.0-a0-1174-g9d51433: contribs: moved to contribs dir, added as submodules 10(3 years, 7 months ago, 203 files, 130+ 231427-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9d51433ef632 18:14:14 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:16:08 <|amethyst> should hack in a column for net lines 18:16:44 <|amethyst> among current contributors, MarvinPA is one of the few with a net negative LOC 18:17:00 sweet 18:17:04 Somehow this is unsurprising :P 18:17:09 MarvinPA is winning the dev game 18:17:19 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:17:33 What, the dev game isn't winning the undying affection of the playerbase? I was mislead! :P 18:18:19 Though clearly if I was just trying not to annoy people, then I wouldn't make plans that involved taking one of the most hated monsters in the game and putting it into one of the most hated branches in the game in an effort to IMPROVE the branch 18:18:58 mumra: grep random_weighted_from *.hh *.cc returns no results, help 18:19:29 elliott: sorry, random_choose_weighted 18:19:43 the other one is the lua function 18:20:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:31 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:43 ah, right, I know of those 18:21:01 MarvinPA: nice work 18:21:06 -!- TZer0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:11 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:21:11 random-weight.h:T random_choose_weighted(FixedVector& choices) 18:21:16 cool, looks close enough 18:21:53 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:07 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:10 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:24:03 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:24:21 <|amethyst> err 18:24:40 <|amethyst> shouldn't that version of random_choose_weighted return an int or a size_t, not a T? 18:24:51 the T is the key type 18:24:53 <|amethyst> right 18:25:05 and it's returning an index 18:25:07 DracoOmega: Ideally, development takes place without taking player reactions into account, imo. (This assumes that there is always an influx of cool, new content -- everyone is happy about this. But for changes/nerfs/removals, if you're convinced, just go ahead.) Also rest assured that many Crawl players actually will understand what you're up to -- enough to explain it to the others, ime. 18:25:07 <|amethyst> if you give it a vector of floats, it will convert the index to a float 18:25:14 oh hm 18:25:18 right it's not the key type, it's the value type 18:25:21 yes i agree 18:25:26 push a fix so i can use it! :P 18:25:51 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:25:52 dpeg: I was being tongue-in-cheek. I think player reaction is important, but only within certain limits, since things that are good for the game as a whole are not always met well initially 18:25:52 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:26:07 dpeg: Moreover, different players want different things, and it is literally impossible to make a game into all things for all people 18:26:24 yes 18:26:39 DracoOmega: Random question. Did you think about leaving sealed doors as non-disintegrable? As now if you find distint wand before vaults (almost always), sealing doesn't seem to really matter. 18:26:40 Sometimes feedback is good to heed, but generally (I feel) only when tempered by a more dispassionate point of view 18:27:12 Medar: I have actually wondered about making them less destructible, actually, since it doesn't seem to be really mattering as much as I originally suspected 18:27:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:28:02 And it's not like you can't tele out if you really are trapped 18:28:06 DracoOmega: Crawl has benefited (benefitted? broken English :) a lot from player input -- that's always been great. But there's a difference between listing to players, and asking them "Might you like this?" 18:28:14 Yes 18:28:24 *listening 18:29:06 In that sense, I suppose I have only tried to please players insofar as I think it's actually making the game itself better in the process. ...as subjective a criteria as that is, of course. 18:29:23 does vaults have rock levels? or was it just stone/metal? 18:29:26 DracoOmega: if it is better for yourself, chances are good it'll be better for many of us! 18:29:40 I think you can (or COULD, anyway) get rock at the very top 18:29:43 But most of it is stone or metal 18:30:04 I never understood why rock worms and boring beetles spawn there 18:30:07 it would be a bit weird to be able to disint the rock next to a door but not the door; so maybe only stone/metal gets strong doors? 18:30:18 Anyway, you seem to get along well enough on your own anyway. This reminds me: jpeg asked if there should be a force-more whenever you're Sentinelly marked. What do you think? 18:30:31 Well, there's already a big loud status light 18:30:40 Well, I guess the idea is that the seal protects it. But yeah, if it's next to a rock wall it might as well be destroyable. 18:31:01 i mean it could make sense themetically, but mechanically it just means "target the walls not the doors" 18:31:05 DracoOmega: yes, probably best to leave the force-mores to players. 18:31:06 And it doesn't tend to be a 'crisis: notice immediately!!' kind of status 18:31:06 You can always end up with vault warden in dungeon if you stairdance it or something. 18:31:19 And yes, if someone really wants an extra notification on it, they can do so themselves 18:32:38 * Grunt saunters back in. 18:32:40 * Grunt throws Pan at dpeg. 18:33:25 -!- dpeg is now known as dpan 18:33:49 ontoclasm: That was quick with the summon icon, very nice. This vault conversation reminds me, that an icon for "chanting recall" would be nice also. 18:33:51 * Grunt looks confused! 18:34:04 I feel like that's a bit specific for its own icon 18:34:10 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:34:26 Could be, maybe I should just force_more that thing myself 18:34:53 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Client Quit] 18:35:00 yeah, taht seems ovrly specfic 18:35:02 Since a convoker's danger level doesn't really go up while doing it, and it can threaten it at any time. I mean, the answer to stopping a recall is usually 'kill it' but you probably want to do that quickly anyway 18:35:36 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 18:36:32 Unlike monsters with some other statuses where your tactics may change more noticably depending on what they have 18:36:38 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:37:02 also chanting monsters give you a message every turn, don't they? 18:37:11 No 18:37:12 They don't. 18:37:13 Just when they start 18:37:16 ah 18:37:28 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:38:35 Well your tactics vs. convokers can certainly change too. Hit it to half health, then kill it off once the chanting starts. Or run out of sight if it's not recalling yet etc. 18:39:04 Why would you pause hitting it to wait for it to start chanting? 18:39:11 To kill something else. 18:39:12 As opposed to just finishing killing it? 18:39:23 They don't actually get easier to hit or anything while reciting 18:39:25 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:39:59 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1071-g252cdaf: Add missing bits for ancient champions' being skeletal. 10(15 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=252cdafecb42 18:39:59 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1072-gbc36d5f: Add missing bits for revenants' being skeletal. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bc36d5f246ab 18:40:01 But there might be more immidiate threats 18:40:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:40:16 Much rather kill that shadow dragon before losing an another level 18:41:05 Or the other convoker that is chanting recall ;) 18:41:34 dpan: incoming branch 18:42:00 Anyway, you are probably right about it being too specific. 18:44:56 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:45:04 New branch created: demigods (9 commits) 18:45:05 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1070-g1d9ed0d: Demigod Abstract Worshippers first version 10(3 months ago, 33 files, 2006+ 65-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d9ed0d0ca6c 18:45:05 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1071-gc6fabcd: Fix some issues where Demigods wouldn't actually gain piety. Add spells lists for most gods. 10(3 months ago, 2 files, 109+ 32-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c6fabcd196cf 18:45:05 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1072-g7a82606: Track number of minions dispatched by each god, increase level of minion based on this number. Adjust probability of generating a minion (based on total notoriety). Cap notoriety at MAX_PIETY. Prevent minions generating for non-pantheon gods. 10(3 months ago, 4 files, 24+ 19-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7a826061b977 18:45:05 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1073-g9ea8bc7: Fix minion timer triggering after minion was killed. Slightly tweak minion level calculations. 10(3 months ago, 2 files, 10+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9ea8bc79f379 18:45:05 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1074-gfbb6755: Fix function call in previous commit. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fbb6755d4cfa 18:45:05 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1075-g3902376: Demigods gain piety for each new level entered. Move NEW_BRANCH conduct trigger to a more sensible place. 10(3 months ago, 4 files, 25+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3902376f9533 18:45:05 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1076-g4400b98: Generate minion names from minionname.txt. Added minionspeak.txt but the speech key is not set yet. 10(3 months ago, 5 files, 173+ 34-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4400b9814553 18:45:05 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1077-g6818389: Fix minion HD, tweak HD numbers. Added clouds. Prevent buggy non-ability showing in menu. Fix a couple of texts. 10(3 months ago, 4 files, 52+ 40-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=681838989b2e 18:45:05 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1078-gfe34ca3: Missed a change during cherry-pick 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fe34ca3ff80a 18:45:05 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1073-g8f96c19: Give flying skulls their own genus, as is done for curse skulls. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8f96c198bc70 18:45:05 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1074-gf92d212: Give ancient champions their own genus. 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f92d21241a73 18:45:05 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1075-g0636926: Remove unneeded break. 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0636926422f6 18:45:53 oh, beautiful! 18:47:44 so... what is the benefit of GOD_SELF 18:47:59 everything i've seen about it is bad for the player 18:48:10 ontoclasm: GOD_SELF? 18:48:35 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48:52 the demigod branch 18:49:12 they get piety, but the only effect i can see is that nasty things come to kill you 18:49:56 ontoclasm: I can explain: there is nothing bad for the player. If you want to, you can ignore the challenges, and nothing happens. (The minions will wait in portal vaults for you, at least the early ones.) If you fight them, you get access to more loot, though. 18:50:09 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1079-g1cd184e: Duplicated lines during cherry-pick 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1cd184e0d434 18:50:09 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1080-g0533484: Whitespace fixes 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=05334842ee6f 18:50:09 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1081-g3f0480d: Update MSVC proj for demigods 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 618+ 614-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3f0480d188bb 18:50:27 dpan: where do you find the portals? 18:51:11 SamB: some god announces being displeased with your behaviour and sends a minion: that will put a portal near to you, and you can ignore or enter it. 18:51:23 ah 18:51:47 The proposal is deliberately meant to be non-intrusive, so that you can play DG like you used too for ten years. 18:52:05 that sounds much better than the "find a portal on the next level generated" I was imagining 18:52:08 oh no 18:52:39 the idea is that you have little time to prepare: resting up before entering is fine, stocking up on stuff is not 18:54:10 (Stocking up for portal vaults is often un-fun: old Crawl would make you go back for food rations before entering labyrinths -- not that they were needed whatsoever). 18:55:40 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:56:21 wow ... how can rebasing after even such a short time cause so many problems? 18:57:01 Is that my fault, by any chance? ^^; 18:57:02 that branch doesn't at all compile right now 18:57:11 don't rebase non-trivial branches 18:57:12 DracoOmega: probably, most of it :) 18:58:18 I mean, not unless you have to 18:58:48 obviously merges aren't really an option if you're preparing something for commit to CVS ... 19:00:17 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1082-g5cdac9c: Spriggan assassins and spriggan enchanters. 10(4 months ago, 9 files, 100+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5cdac9c2ee98 19:00:17 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1083-g1614dbd: Another minor adjustment to Forest monster weight. 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1614dbdf562c 19:00:17 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1096-g3a28b81: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into forest_redux 10(8 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3a28b81af9b2 19:00:17 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1076-g6d5bb57: Fix spacing. 10(53 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6d5bb57588de 19:01:49 SamB: well i wanted to cherry-pick this stuff from another repository. to be honest i've had bad experience with merges 19:02:16 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:03:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:21 ok *now* the branch compiles 19:05:21 03mumra 07[demigods] * 0.13-a0-1082-gf9b7165: Fix several errors introduced during rebase 10(86 seconds ago, 4 files, 7+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f9b7165edf6f 19:05:25 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:06:33 <|amethyst> mumra: bad merges are better than bad rebases though :) 19:06:56 Hmmm... just saw a nice phantasmal warrior + vampire knight combo nearly kill this ogre 19:08:22 |amethyst: well, all this will get squashed later on, i need to rework a few things that could be done better now anyway 19:09:04 * Grunt squashes mumra like a bug!!! 19:09:24 * SamB thinks there's a bit too much sausage-making going on ... 19:09:33 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:09:56 * mumra sausages SamB like a sausage!! 19:10:25 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1077-gfb89ea0: Correct return type of random_choose_weighted(FixedVector). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb89ea0763c2 19:11:17 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:20:25 <|amethyst> SamB: are you suggesting we should... hide the sausage? 19:20:42 no 19:21:06 <|amethyst> software development is obscene 19:22:06 |amethyst: ty 19:23:13 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:24:11 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:17 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:27:43 what do you guys know about windows stack traces? as far as i understand it, win32-backtrace manages to get a list of return addresses, one per stack frame, but since mingw doesn't support rdynamic on windows there's not enough information in the dynamic symbol table to convert those into function names 19:28:11 win32-backtrace being a branch of crawl 19:28:55 <|amethyst> !learn add gitstats[1] http://www.ohloh.net/p/stonesoup 19:28:55 gitstats[1/3]: http://www.ohloh.net/p/stonesoup 19:29:05 blackcustard: well, when I build crawl the information is actually in the executable but locked away in a part of the file that's not loaded into memory 19:29:32 that's the static symbol table. as far as i understand there are two, and yeah, that one isn't loaded. it's the smaller dynamic symbol table that is 19:29:46 rdynamic is supposed to stuff more info into the dynamic one 19:30:28 but this is pretty much all stuff i've learned in the last couple hours so .. :S 19:30:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:30:43 so as I see it we'd need to write code or link against a library to extract the symbols from the PE-COFF or DWARF symbol table ... 19:31:23 wouldn't such code need to read the binary? and wouldn't that be kind of risky if we had just crashed? 19:31:29 I'm not sure I'd say there was a "dynamic symbol table" in Windows' PE binaries 19:31:48 blackcustard: yeah, it would be a bit precarious :-( 19:31:49 you could be right. that might just be ELFs 19:32:28 it would certainly be easier if we could read the needed information out of the export table 19:33:14 that's pretty simple to decode, and also loaded 19:37:43 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:39:11 |amethyst: did you think we ought to merge in win32-backtrace despite the lack of function names? 19:39:34 <|amethyst> hm 19:39:54 if i'm understanding this all correctly; "dumpbin /exports crawl.exe" is giving me the table you are talking about; and it is sadly lacking in useful entries 19:39:54 possibly in somewhat altered form 19:39:57 <|amethyst> OTOH it's completely useless when the user compiled their own 19:40:10 dumpbin being supposedly a rough equivilent to this nm thing i keep hearing about 19:40:19 |amethyst: well, to anyone but the user, yes 19:40:27 <|amethyst> on the other, if it's a version we compiled theoretically we can find the information in another way 19:40:44 <|amethyst> SamB: to anyone but the most dedicated of users :) 19:41:30 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: who looks at the 't' menu? 19:41:31 what happens if you feed the crash dump through addr2line or whatever ? 19:41:32 <|amethyst> doh 19:43:21 doh what? 19:43:33 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:53 -!- guestlike has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:44:08 ??amethyst 19:44:08 amethyst[1/3]: <|amethyst> doh 19:44:41 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:45:06 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:45:30 <|amethyst> SamB: I was responding to something DracoOmega said in ##crawl 19:45:31 <|amethyst> Across all C++ projects on Ohloh, 22% of all source code lines are comments. For Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, this figure is only 9%. 19:45:35 <|amethyst> This lack of comments puts Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup among the lowest 10% of all C++ projects on Ohloh. 19:46:36 <|amethyst> Over the past twelve months, 62 developers contributed new code to Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. This is one of the largest open-source teams in the world, and is in the top 2% of all project teams on Ohloh. 19:46:56 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:23 Oooo, nice 19:49:04 <|amethyst> 4 is "average size" 19:49:36 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:14 Interesting figures. |amethyst is there more like this? jpeg and I are finishing the survey results -- would be awesome to include some stuff like this. 19:50:33 <|amethyst> http://www.ohloh.net/p/stonesoup/factoids 19:50:38 or probably better, publish them in a quick blog entry 19:50:41 cool, thx 19:50:43 <|amethyst> and the various stats pages there 19:50:49 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1078-g536f84b: Make it so revenants don't push past spectral things if they're enslaved souls. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=536f84b0a613 19:51:00 <|amethyst> neunon manages the ohloh project for crawl 19:51:14 |amethyst: still active doing that? 19:51:19 <|amethyst> so he could tell you more about ohloh than I could 19:51:30 <|amethyst> I don't know, I suspect there's not much to be active about 19:51:55 <|amethyst> but if you wanted the project blurb change he'd be the person to talk to 19:51:57 blackcustard: did you need the stack trace for a specific local problem, or is it just a general desire to get them working? 19:52:02 <|amethyst> s/change/changed/ 19:52:47 mumra: general desire to get them working; inspired by my failed attempts to get to the bottom of that crash (probably seg fault) that may or may but probably isn't directly related to destroying spellbooks by forgetting 19:53:01 <|amethyst> dpan: also: http://www.ohloh.net/p/stonesoup/estimated_cost 19:53:07 <|amethyst> dpan: 5 million dollars it says 19:53:17 <|amethyst> dpan: and 92 person-years 19:53:30 blackcustard: if you can reproduce the crash locally, it's possible to debug in msvc and see a full stack trace that way 19:53:31 not reproducible of course. i had to give up 19:53:35 right 19:54:13 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:54:31 |amethyst: yes, had to laugh about the 92 years, too 19:57:47 <|amethyst> dpan: well, that's the number of person-years it would take a software development company to make it 19:57:57 <|amethyst> dpan: organization has its inefficiencies :) 19:58:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:37 blackcustard: if we merged the win32-backtrace branch, you'd be able to decode the backtrace with a bit of work ... 19:58:49 Seeing these numbers, I have no absolutely no idea, how one man projects can become so big (ToME, DF for example). 19:59:09 if it were a local crash 19:59:23 (i.e., yours and you had the binary on hand) 20:00:03 dpan: Well, one advantage a one person project has is that the programmer knows ALL of the codebase 20:00:08 SamB: i've just been trying to learn how to do that ... we have return addresses. that is, the address of the instruction we want to go back to in memory. that should tell you, somehow, the offset of the instruction into the binary and then there ought to be some program that knows how to find out the function ... like this addr2line thing that i can't use right 20:00:18 Which could make them individually a lot more effecient, arguably 20:00:31 <|amethyst> dpan: well, COCOMO has an exponential factor to represent the communication costs as the number of developers go on 20:00:33 i hope that didn't get cut off. last word is "right" 20:00:38 <|amethyst> dpan: s/go on/go up/ 20:00:51 clearly i need to start using length-prefixed strings 20:00:53 |amethyst: Which I guess is actually sort of like what I just said 20:01:01 blackcustard: fine 20:01:03 <|amethyst> yeah 20:01:08 nothinglost 20:01:23 except the space in my own message 20:01:27 But with a team, you can go for exponential growth! 20:01:50 For example, we have essentially split up some chunks (tiles, descriptions, vaults). 20:01:56 |amethyst: communication? pah! 20:02:16 (Communication? Hah! Time to rip out guts!) 20:02:33 <|amethyst> dpan: well, if you count things like that DF's really more of a two-man team 20:02:55 I hope so! 20:03:21 Grunt: I have to point out that gut-ripping is a form of communication, too. 20:03:35 "I don't like you very much." 20:03:50 or "I am above you on the food chain" 20:04:03 dpan: ripping out the guts of some piece of code is communication now, huh? 20:04:12 "I don't like your code very much." 20:04:33 <|amethyst> that's the other thing, COCOMO does assume a corporate model with code reviews, meetings, specification documents, change requests, ... 20:04:40 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:05:08 <|amethyst> so community open source projects can get by with a much lower overhead and a much lower exponent even 20:05:10 we do some of those sometimes 20:05:14 See! Look at how much time and effort we save! :P 20:05:25 <|amethyst> SamB: not for every single change 20:05:39 |amethyst: what did you think I meant by "sometimes"? 20:05:49 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:29 <|amethyst> SamB: I know, I was saying that 92 person-years probably assume that happens for nearly every change 20:06:38 <|amethyst> s/assume/assumes/ 20:06:39 -!- sbanwart_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:31 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:10:22 <|amethyst> dpan: any thoughts on pubby's patch at https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7094? 20:10:25 -!- smeea has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:10:53 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:10:54 <|amethyst> dpan: the idea, I mean: zin turning ammo into silver 20:12:10 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:12:13 * elliott finds that weird 20:12:37 ??magic resistance[6] 20:12:38 magic resistance[6/7]: blue deaths have tele other? things you learn when you do pan with shit magic resistance 20:12:40 ??magic resistance[5] 20:12:41 magic resistance[5/7]: @ values are: not < 10, slightly < 30, somewhat < 60, quite < 90, very < 120, extremely < 150, extraordinarily < 190, incredibly < 240, uncannily < 300, almost entirely >= 300 20:12:43 ??magic resistance[4] 20:12:43 magic resistance[4/7]: Racial factor is 7 for spriggans, 6 for purple dracs, felids and deep dwarves, 5 for nagas and mummies, 4 for elves, demigods, vampires and ogres, and 3 for everyone else. 20:16:05 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-568-gba45822: Djinn: the Regeneration spell causes glow. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ba45822b41b6 20:16:43 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:59 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:10 |amethyst: phew, I don't really know. Balance-wise, it's probably not needed; and I am afraid it might make Zin less broad. But I didn't really think about the matter. 20:17:32 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:11 ...okay, time for one last stupid Forest idea <_< 20:18:40 Poor tile artists; I'm going to overwhelm them with work. 20:18:59 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:11 mumra already did that before you could 20:19:12 <|amethyst> Grunt: is Forest going to have a hydrataur? 20:19:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:26 stasis aura fairy please please please 20:19:30 I'm not *that* bad a designer :b 20:20:50 just very bad about fixing things after people yell about them at you for ages :P 20:21:10 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1097-gd31e7bb: Allow most uniques that place in Crypt to place equivalently in Forest. 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 13+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d31e7bbc4b44 20:21:10 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1098-g4567b2a: Sojobo, king of the tengu! 10(17 minutes ago, 8 files, 64+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4567b2a306a7 20:21:10 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1102-gaf4c8f2: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into forest_redux 10(10 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=af4c8f236d5e 20:22:34 <|amethyst> FR: two tengu subraces, yehat and pkunk 20:23:16 git's commit message for the merge is a bit weird after it's pushed to the main repo i guess. i mean, it's not a "remote" branch anymore at that point 20:24:03 |amethyst: I'd rather have Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah :b 20:24:16 <|amethyst> %git :/remote-tracking 20:24:17 03Grunt * 0.13-a0-1102-gaf4c8f2: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into forest_redux 10(13 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=af4c8f236d5e 20:24:22 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:24:32 <|amethyst> %git HEAD^^{/remote-tracking} 20:24:34 Could not find commit HEAD^^{/remote-tracking} (git returned 128) 20:24:54 %git HEAD^^{/merge} 20:24:54 03DracoOmega * 0.13-a0-1021-g827bc41: Change draconian shifter spell set 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=827bc4177aea 20:25:39 <|amethyst> %git HEAD^^{/merge branch} 20:25:41 Could not find commit HEAD^^{/merge branch} (git returned 128) 20:25:55 <|amethyst> %git HEAD^^{/Merge branch} 20:25:56 03bh * 0.13-a0-60-g27b6fb3: Merge branch 'jester' 10(8 weeks ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=27b6fb311a2e 20:26:01 <|amethyst> %git HEAD^^{/Merge branch 'master'} 20:26:01 03dolorous * 0.12-a0-3254-ge0babb4: Merge branch 'master' into jester 10(8 weeks ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e0babb4e70dc 20:26:15 o i guess it's not git's message 20:26:34 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:26:41 blackcustard: git proposes it, I think 20:26:47 you can edit it though 20:26:51 if you want 20:27:03 <|amethyst> %git HEAD^^{/gitorious.org:} 20:27:03 03ontoclasm * 0.12-a0-375-ga9acc62: Merge branch 'master' of gitorious.org:crawl/crawl 10(9 months ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a9acc623c6f1 20:27:26 <|amethyst> %git HEAD^^{/ssh://} 20:27:27 03galehar * 0.10-a0-1285-gccf3b0c: Merge branch 'master' of ssh://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 10(1 year, 7 months ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ccf3b0ce4fea 20:27:51 <|amethyst> Our history isn't exactly pristine, I wouldn't worry about it too much :) 20:28:27 Hmm, I need to come up with dialogue for the uniques. 20:29:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:30:27 "Die die die!!" 20:30:49 kilobyte: that's applicable to pretty much anything in the dungeon :b 20:31:06 "And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!" 20:31:17 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1103-gbf51db4: A description for Forest. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 13+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf51db4ebc9b 20:32:17 what, the trees be attacking is the only description forest needs 20:32:59 @??animated tree 20:32:59 can't place dummy monster: "animated tree" 20:33:08 :( 20:33:50 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:39 -!- fungee^ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:34:39 <|amethyst> elms! 20:35:21 <|amethyst> walking trees, mediaeval Japan, and an ancient Egyptian tomb 20:35:40 todo: figure out how many more anachronisms we can mesh together 20:36:22 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1104-ga95d592: Proper dbname for a unique entry. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a95d5929952b 20:36:30 knife blade gloves unrand :p 20:36:48 Permanent low power Blade Hands while equipped? 20:36:48 <_< 20:36:49 <|amethyst> Grunt: put Sharnga in a vault there 20:37:07 a certain somebody just added jiangshi 20:38:08 We have to support the Asian market! 20:38:17 what's the reason to not use proper diacritics? 20:38:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:38:22 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:38:43 <|amethyst> kilobyte: hard to use &M :) 20:38:48 Not everyone's going to be playing on a terminal that can enter/display them. 20:38:54 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:07 there's even not a single place a regular player can type a monster's name 20:39:24 and plenty monsters allow alternate names in mapdef 20:39:31 -!- santiago_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:30 Grunt: Unicode is the default since 0.8, I don't see any complaints after people got weaned off cp437 20:40:41 <|amethyst> trying to get more i18n bugs worked out in advance I see 20:41:27 * elliott sees complaints about the default unicode glyphs all the time... 20:41:43 elliott: about people wanting something else 20:42:00 <|amethyst> encoding, not glyphs 20:42:07 |amethyst: I know 20:42:15 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:26 |amethyst: both actually 20:42:51 with a quite modest selection, but still 20:43:12 kilobyte: what about ?/ 20:44:22 SamB: it already checks a lot of alternates 20:46:35 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:06 -!- Dixlet_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:40 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I do think a lot of people won't be able to see "Sōjōbō", or won't be able to see it correctly, and unlike the glyphs there's no way to change that 20:48:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I guess we could have a pseudolanguage that strips diacritics, but that doesn't affect the monster list, description screen, etc 20:48:20 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:52 mon_name option would be a great advancement in creative robin rcs 20:49:53 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:50:05 lets use FATHER CHRISTMAS in the name of something 20:50:08 nethackerobin 20:50:19 *nobody* (except maybe Android players) will be able to see it ;-) 20:50:38 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:51:16 "Sōjōbō" looks terrible in my font, btw 20:51:20 despite it having good unicode coverage 20:51:34 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5503 - thinking of implementing this, do most people think it's a good idea? 20:51:59 also, add a pirate unique with this glyph ☠ 20:52:52 🎅 20:52:52 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:53:29 nrook: if I design a vault shaped like that, does it count? :b 20:54:09 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:54:31 haha, that one doesn't even show up on my display 20:54:32 apparantly FATHER CHRISTMAS is a very important part of Japanese culture or something ... 20:54:43 is that a father christmas emoji? 20:54:47 nrook: yeah, that's my point 20:55:01 oh that is pretty great 20:55:24 <|amethyst> in some fonts U+2697 ALEMBIC could be an octopode: ⚗ 20:55:28 I can't see the FATHER CHRISTMAS emoji, you can't see it, probably Grunt can't see it 20:55:32 nrook: all portal vaults are announced in trunk! 20:55:42 well, sounds like the bug is out of date then :p 20:55:57 That's up to galehar to decide <_< 20:56:12 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:32 nrook: I even added a new message channel for the "time is running out to enter FOO portal" messages 20:56:51 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:26 -!- nrook_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:57:27 unfortunately it turns out I can't use force_more_messages to interrupt autoexplore with a "- more -" prompt 20:57:36 aww 20:57:38 because it is broken 20:57:46 -!- dpan has quit [Quit: sleeeep] 20:58:02 nrook: I even added a new message channel for the "time is running out to enter FOO portal" messages 20:58:06 oh dpan is dpeg, I was wondering who that was 20:58:08 in case you missed it 20:58:20 oh cool 20:58:21 nrook_: because I threw Pan at him :b 20:58:35 I've been away from crawl for several years so I'm not up to speed 20:58:45 I should probably play a little before I start trying to help 20:58:53 !lg * map=~nrook s=map 20:58:53 495 games for * (map=~nrook): 152x nrook_mini_vaults, 130x nrook_uturn, 73x nrook_mini_backslash, 58x nrook_campfire, 25x nrook_pool_corridor, 19x nrook_loot_triangle, 19x nrook_guardian_serpent_ordinary, 17x nrook_guardian_serpent_double, nrook_kobold_shadow_demons, nrook_guardian_serpent_snake_passage 20:58:55 I just added this channel the other day 20:58:56 ...I knew your name seemed familiar, heh. 20:58:59 -!- nrook has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:59:03 and it's not exactly evident in-game 20:59:28 aww, I didn't put my name in my coolest vault 20:59:31 zot_tub 20:59:43 nrook_: obviously you mean hottest vault :b 20:59:53 heh 21:00:05 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:00:21 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:01:10 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:22 -!- nrook_ is now known as nrook 21:01:58 !lg * !boring !won map=~hangedman xl>1 s=map 21:01:59 1201 games for * (!boring !won map=~hangedman xl>1): 116x hangedman_ranch, 110x hangedman_tree_tricks, 91x hangedman_fish_farm, 65x hangedman_pestilent_swarm, 55x hangedman_tell_no_tales, 53x hangedman_cross_stitches, 45x hangedman_glass_teeth, 39x hangedman_cross_cluster, 34x hangedman_stone_soup, 29x hangedman_slaughterboxes, 28x hangedman_cross_veins, 27x hangedman_decor_points, 26x hangedman_d... 21:02:18 ugh, worst idea to make food vaults 21:04:00 horrible mistake 21:04:15 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:21 <|amethyst> let the players starve! 21:04:43 soup? 21:04:55 Bring back Hive IMO. 21:04:55 * Grunt flees in terror. 21:04:56 you eat stone soup when you have no actual food, right? so it's appropriate 21:05:01 lets add food vaults to zotdef 21:05:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 283 seconds] 21:05:43 I thought stone soup was a silly way to convince a town to make soup together, and score some for yourself along the way 21:05:53 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:06:21 aww 21:06:43 on the other hand I almost have as many of my most lethal, earliest encompass vault kills as that of the smallest food vault so maybe I should just wait patiently 21:07:07 pleasuredromes, crystal_crosses_colossus, spin_cycle, and slaughterboxes will be more than enough for worthwhile deaths 21:07:27 !lg * !boring !won map=~hangedman s=map 21:07:28 1311 games for * (!boring !won map=~hangedman): 116x hangedman_ranch, 110x hangedman_tree_tricks, 91x hangedman_fish_farm, 65x hangedman_pestilent_swarm, 59x hangedman_glass_teeth, 55x hangedman_tell_no_tales, 53x hangedman_cross_stitches, 39x hangedman_decor_points, 39x hangedman_cross_cluster, 34x hangedman_stone_soup, 33x hangedman_decor_clover_reticule, 32x hangedman_decor_growths, 29x hangedm... 21:07:46 !lg * !boring won map=~hangedman s=map 21:07:48 11 games for * (!boring won map=~hangedman): 11x lightli_hangedman_entry_farm 21:07:57 yes I wish I didn't have my name on that 21:08:22 do you hate lightli or something 21:08:44 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:44 well yes but it is also not really my vault and I don't want credit just for an entry vault 21:08:54 hai again 21:09:02 Hi bh! 21:09:03 Are we still talking about how many commits people have? :) 21:09:08 bh: nope :b 21:09:18 maybe I should finish electric form. 21:09:22 deaths are much cooler 21:09:44 oh is that so 21:09:45 ??static discharge 21:09:46 static discharge[1/2]: Hits between 1 and 8 adjacent enemies, based on power; if an enemy is rElec or flying, skip them. For each target hit, if power remains, recursively arc out to another adjacent target (includes you, but for low damage), reducing power to 1/2 or 1/3. Halved damage to you if flying, and checks rElec. 21:09:55 do I need to do something that kills people at some point then? 21:09:55 so is s=map actual deaths within the confines of a vault, or just deaths on the level of a vault? 21:10:01 confines 21:10:03 oh nice 21:10:11 Instead of blinkbolt, I could just give the form passive static discharge 21:10:14 kmap detects kills from the monsters explicitly placed by the vault though 21:10:21 !lg * kmap=~nrook s=kmap 21:10:22 23 games for * (kmap=~nrook): 10x nrook_guardian_serpent_ordinary, 9x nrook_guardian_serpent_snake_passage, 3x nrook_guardian_serpent_double, nrook_kobold_shadow_demons 21:10:27 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=~orb spider 21:10:28 126. Bloaxzorro the Severer (L14 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, blown up by an orb spider on Spider:5 on 2013-05-26 20:59:56, with 68330 points after 22746 turns and 1:22:59. 21:10:34 !lg * killer=~orb_spider 21:10:35 148. Bloaxzorro the Severer (L14 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, blown up by an orb spider on Spider:5 on 2013-05-26 20:59:56, with 68330 points after 22746 turns and 1:22:59. 21:10:46 <|amethyst> oh 21:10:51 kmap of course is newer and also you can't use s=map and s=kmap in the same search 21:11:01 The orb of destruction hits |amethyst! |amethyst is blown up! 21:11:11 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=~orb_spider !spider 21:11:12 23. Amon the Grappler (L10 GhMo), worshipper of Cheibriados, blown up by an orb spider on D:7 on 2013-05-25 17:35:00, with 4224 points after 6641 turns and 1:45:38. 21:11:17 o_o 21:11:25 !lg * killer=~orb_spider !spider x=map,kmap 21:11:25 23. [map=;killermap=] Amon the Grappler (L10 GhMo), worshipper of Cheibriados, blown up by an orb spider on D:7 on 2013-05-25 17:35:00, with 4224 points after 6641 turns and 1:45:38. 21:11:26 oh nice! I am the greatest 21:11:27 !lg * !boring !won map=~hangedman s=map s=kmap 21:11:28 Too many grouping terms (extra: s=killermap) 21:11:29 (bet it was a polymorph) 21:11:31 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=~orb_spider !spider -tv 21:11:31 !lg * killer=~orb_spider !spider -tv 21:11:32 !lg * !boring !won map=~hangedman s=map x=kmap 21:11:33 23. Amon, XL10 GhMo, T:6641 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 21:11:33 23. Amon, XL10 GhMo, T:6641 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 21:11:34 Extra fields (x=killermap) contain non-aggregates 21:11:41 they have miserable hd to deal no damage with their orbs 21:11:54 !lg * !boring !won map=~hangedman x=map s=kmap 21:11:54 Extra fields (x=map) contain non-aggregates 21:11:59 so they're not too uncommong as early polymorphs alongside e.g. orange rats and boggarts 21:12:10 not that any of them have enough mr to resist zapping _again_ but 21:12:59 <|amethyst> haha 21:13:18 I even survived an orb spider as a felid 21:13:19 <|amethyst> "oh, a centaur? I don't like fast ranged attackers, polymorph!" 21:13:21 once 21:13:29 I didn't let it shoot again 21:13:45 I suppose it is a wonderful eventual effect of random effects 21:14:16 <|amethyst> that seemed a little like failure to use one's god 21:14:25 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=~orb_spider !spider -tv:cancel 21:14:26 23. Amon, XL10 GhMo, T:6641 cancel requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 21:14:56 I wonder if I ran the stats of uniques lethality per fight again 21:15:12 if lamia would still be right under sigmund and grinder for third most lethal unique 21:15:25 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:15:54 !killratio lamia 21:15:56 lamia wins 15.80% of battles. 21:15:59 !killratio sigmund 21:16:02 sigmund wins 28.48% of battles. 21:16:04 !killratio grinder 21:16:05 oh, that's new 21:16:06 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=~large_abomination kpath=~created 21:16:07 grinder wins 23.86% of battles. 21:16:07 17. jeanjacques the Brawler (L11 TrJr), worshipper of Okawaru, annihilated by a large abomination (created by the touch of Lugonu) on Lair:3 on 2013-04-07 22:57:25, with 8508 points after 3050 turns and 0:17:34. 21:16:16 maybe the tourney helped 21:16:29 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=~large_abomination kpath=~created -2 21:16:30 16/17. EdWood the Bewitcher (L13 VpEn), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, demolished by a large abomination (created by a deep elf priest) on Orc:2 on 2013-01-31 01:51:06, with 32071 points after 25203 turns and 2:13:29. 21:16:51 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=~large_abomination kpath=~created kpath!= lugonu s=kpath 21:16:51 One game for * (killer=~large_abomination kpath=~created kpath!= lugonu): created by a deep elf priest 21:16:58 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=~large_abomination kpath=~created kpath!=lugonu s=kpath 21:16:59 17 games for * (killer=~large_abomination kpath=~created kpath!=lugonu): 10x created by a deep elf priest, 3x created by the player character, 2x created by a deep elf death mage, created by a deep elf high priest, created by the touch of Lugonu 21:17:03 !killratio pikel 21:17:05 pikel wins 15.24% of battles. 21:17:07 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=~large_abomination kpath=~created kpath!~lugonu s=kpath 21:17:08 16 games for * (killer=~large_abomination kpath=~created kpath!~lugonu): 10x created by a deep elf priest, 3x created by the player character, 2x created by a deep elf death mage, created by a deep elf high priest 21:17:22 !killratio Crazy_Yiuf 21:17:25 Crazy_Yiuf wins 14.60% of battles. 21:17:34 <|amethyst> what else have I done that kills players 21:17:34 okay lamia is still 3rd 21:17:46 that's still quite impressive 21:17:48 .g s=map 21:17:55 1109 games for * (!boring !won (map=~grunt || kmap=~grunt)): 272x, 54x grunt_nemelex_the_gamble, 43x grunt_snake_rune_spirals, 40x grunt_ashenzari_visionary, 40x grunt_spider_rune_circles, 37x grunt_spider_rune_island, 33x grunt_entry_crossed_arrows, 30x grunt_spider_rune_parallel, 30x grunt_ministairs_6, 29x grunt_profane_halls, 25x grunt_decor_arrowhead, 21x grunt_tough_drop, 18x grunt_orc_commu... 21:18:44 !lg * !boring !won ((map=~hangedman || kmap=~hangedman)) 21:18:49 1583. Sealer the Digger (L9 KoEE), worshipper of Ashenzari, hit from afar by an orc warrior (dart) on D:6 (hangedman_cross_stitches) on 2013-05-28 00:01:17, with 1774 points after 9687 turns and 0:30:26. 21:19:00 eurgh, you're catching up 21:19:19 I need to make more rune vaults and overflow altar vaults because that clearly is not as cheap of a trick as food vaults 21:19:22 .g t 21:19:22 317. oshikia the Spear-Bearer (L13 DsGl), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, shot by a vault guard (arrow) (kmap: grunt_vaults_entry_tiered) on D:15 on 2013-05-26 22:18:31, with 41013 points after 23957 turns and 1:48:03. 21:19:33 !lg * !boring !won t ((map=~hangedman || kmap=~hangedman)) 21:19:35 252. 9uMaH the Spear-Bearer (L8 MiFi), worshipper of Okawaru, demolished by an orc warrior (a +0,+1 orcish long sword) (kmap: hangedman_cross_stitches) on D:6 on 2013-05-26 20:07:25, with 1901 points after 7823 turns and 0:45:53. 21:19:38 ... 21:19:40 ... 21:20:32 .g s=map 21:20:39 1109 games for * (!boring !won (map=~grunt || kmap=~grunt)): 272x, 54x grunt_nemelex_the_gamble, 43x grunt_snake_rune_spirals, 40x grunt_ashenzari_visionary, 40x grunt_spider_rune_circles, 37x grunt_spider_rune_island, 33x grunt_entry_crossed_arrows, 30x grunt_spider_rune_parallel, 30x grunt_ministairs_6, 29x grunt_profane_halls, 25x grunt_decor_arrowhead, 21x grunt_tough_drop, 18x grunt_orc_commu... 21:20:44 !lg * !boring !won t ((place=Volcano || kmap=~special_room)) 21:20:50 63. FilthyApe the Brawler (L11 TrBe), worshipper of Trog, demolished by a two-headed ogre (a +1,+2 great mace of flaming) in Volcano (volcano_pools) on 2013-05-26 23:44:47, with 10769 points after 10970 turns and 0:33:22. 21:20:52 * SamB was hoping it used the name of the caller or something 21:20:58 .h 21:21:07 !def .g 21:21:09 argh, only two off 21:21:13 <|amethyst> !cmd .g 21:21:14 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:21:15 Command: .g => !lg * !boring !won (( map=~grunt || kmap=~grunt )) $* 21:21:31 maybe I can count kills in select zigs but I doubt anybody actually died to hellephants or aquamancers or 21:21:57 !lg * recent ckiller=hellephant s=place 21:21:57 33 games for * (recent ckiller=hellephant): 21x Abyss, 5x Abyss:1, Zig:7, Hell, D:27, Vaults:1, Abyss:5, D:21, Abyss:2 21:22:17 <|amethyst> !cmd .mapkills !lg * !boring !won (( map=~$1 || kmap=~$1 )) $* 21:22:18 Defined command: .mapkills => !lg * !boring !won (( map=~$1 || kmap=~$1 )) $* 21:22:23 <|amethyst> !mapkills evilmike 21:22:31 .mapkills evilmike 21:22:34 3524. awbwrobin the Slayer (L27 HEFi), blasted by Gloorx Vloq (foul vapour) in Pandemonium (evilmike_gloorx_vloq_box) on 2013-05-28 01:27:33, with 935333 points after 101570 turns and 10:48:51. 21:22:35 <|amethyst> err, yeah 21:22:40 !lg * recent ckiller=aquamancer 21:22:40 No games for * (recent ckiller=aquamancer). 21:22:47 !lg * recent ckiller=~aquamancer 21:22:48 60. buffalo66 the Sorcerer (L15 DEFE), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by a merfolk aquamancer (great wave of water) (kmap: nicolae_shoals_aquamancer_cove) on Shoals:4 on 2013-05-26 22:46:35, with 78827 points after 12249 turns and 2:12:05. 21:23:08 !lg * recent ckiller=~aquamancer s=place 21:23:10 60 games for * (recent ckiller=~aquamancer): 42x Shoals:5, 8x Shoals:4, 4x Shoals:3, 3x Shoals:2, 3x Shoals:1 21:23:20 !lg * ckiller=~aquamancer s=place 21:23:22 217 games for * (ckiller=~aquamancer): 161x Shoals:5, 26x Shoals:4, 18x Shoals:3, 8x Shoals:2, 4x Shoals:1 21:23:27 all shoals 21:23:43 !lg * recent place=~Zig ckiller=~(vampire_knight|aquamancer|hellephant|dancing_weapon) 21:23:48 No games for * (recent place=~Zig ckiller=~(vampire_knight|aquamancer|hellephant|dancing_weapon)). 21:24:16 anyway I'll have revenge later 21:24:45 (prepare for my thousand needles of pain!) 21:25:53 -!- cheibrodos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:27:21 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:30:02 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:14 -!- Ryak has quit [Quit: Copywight 2007 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved.] 21:33:31 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:34:03 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:36:52 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:39 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1105-gbff23d9: Add mon-grow entries for some forest monsters. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bff23d9c3366 21:37:41 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:37:41 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:54 =cp .mapkills !mapkills 21:37:55 Defined command: !mapkills => !lg * !boring !won (( map=~$1 || kmap=~$1 )) $* 21:38:00 =rm .mapkills 21:39:04 has anyone played with Grotesks? 21:40:14 ??beak 21:40:15 beak[1/1]: A mutation that gives you a big sharp thing on your face that you can peck things with. Kengu start with a beak. A peck is an {auxiliary unarmed} attack that does 6 damage. Having a beak prevents you from wearing a hard helmet (caps and hats are okay though). 21:40:15 ??fangs 21:40:16 sharp teeth[1/2]: Grants an auxiliary unarmed biting attack, increasing in damage with the level of the mutation. If you have 3 levels of sharp teeth (and aren't a vampire), you can butcher with your mouth. Vampires start with 3 levels of sharp teeth. 21:40:25 ??fangs[2] 21:40:25 bite[1/1]: An {auxiliary unarmed} attack you can get if you have sharp teeth or fangs. Damage is (fang mutation level * 2) + (unarmed skill / 5). 21:40:42 <|amethyst> bh: kilobyte was talking about putting grotesks, lava orcs, and djinn in an experimental branch; I could put that up on CSZO and/or CAO 21:40:58 |amethyst: +1 21:42:48 Deleted command: .mapkills => !lg * !boring !won (( map=~$1 || kmap=~$1 )) $* 21:42:50 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 21:42:51 -!- Cerepol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:53 <|amethyst> I don't know if he was planning on doing it or just suggesting it 21:42:56 i did start to rebase lava orcs... 21:43:09 Eronarn: you might want to talk to lainiw; he did some work in that respect. 21:43:24 oh, cool 21:43:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:43:55 (why would someone start to work on lo and not even manage to highlight me in irc? this is my first hearing about it) 21:44:41 |amethyst: should we make a new-races branch? 21:44:50 hypertrunk 21:45:19 i wonder when hangedman will come back now that the tourney is over 21:45:25 never 21:45:28 i think lava orcs at least should be tested in trunk if they finally get working, the idea is so old by now 21:45:28 hangedman is dead 21:45:40 long live hangedman 21:45:48 !seen hangedman 21:45:48 I last saw HangedMan at Thu Mar 14 13:04:34 2013 UTC (10w 4d 13h 41m 14s ago) parting ##crawl-dev with message 'chanpart'. 21:45:57 He reads the logs. 21:46:04 RIP 21:46:04 djinn seem a bit wildly experimental, but i think they have some interesting ideas, and i could see streamlined djinn being good for dcss too 21:46:11 grotesks i barely know anything about, can't comment there 21:46:13 bh: too bad he never comes in! 21:46:22 elliott: he !tells me sometimes 21:46:27 basically i dont see a big gain in putting them in their own fork 21:46:29 evilmike: they're a bad idea, basically 21:46:30 * SamB giggles 21:46:40 ahem, ahem 21:46:42 i guess we will just never know what happened to hangedman 21:46:44 * SamB didn't realize it was such a well-kept secret 21:46:51 the mysteries of crawl 21:47:00 !seen Wensley 21:47:01 I last saw Wensley at Mon May 27 00:12:58 2013 UTC (1d 2h 34m 3s ago) saying '!lg lexackson won min=dur' on ##crawl. 21:47:08 people come and go 21:47:10 evilmike: getting lorcs to work in trunk should be trivial, i rebased them to it not that long ago... the rebasing i'm doing was code standards rewriting 21:47:44 <|amethyst> evilmike: I think part of the idea of putting them in a branch is to avoid having to revert them if it doesn't work out, since it's hard to completely remove a race 21:47:49 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1079-g01ae1f4: Add formatting fix. 10(63 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=01ae1f4e70d2 21:47:49 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1080-gfcb3a05: Remove duplicate code in monster::is_child_monster(). 10(56 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fcb3a05d0ddf 21:47:49 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-1081-ga14c9fc: Clean up tentacle/tentacle segment handling somewhat. 10(8 minutes ago, 14 files, 63+ 52-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a14c9fcc0703 21:47:59 i see 21:48:18 well in that case it seems like LO should at least make it in 21:48:18 `if (!you.can_bleed(false))` -- really, that's how we check to see if you can berserk? 21:48:22 <|amethyst> (save compat, servers, etc) 21:48:37 i think i submitted the patch in december? then bh had some revisions that have taken a while to do because i don't know C++ 21:49:12 I think this would be a good usecase for gerrit, encouraging external contributions 21:49:48 ??gerrit 21:49:49 I don't have a page labeled gerrit in my learndb. 21:50:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:50:21 fsbot in #emacs doesn't know, either 21:50:28 SamB: it's a code review tool that works with git 21:51:22 does it involve Chei announcing the patches 21:51:30 I believe it's inspired by Rietveld which is a clone of Google's Mondrian tool 21:51:55 nah, it involves pushing commits, getting comments, then getting a dev to +1 (or +2) a commit at which point it gets merged 21:52:56 should I prohibit grotesks from berserking? There's a weird imbalanced situation where you can berserk while petrifying 21:55:32 oh right... i finished the rebase part, but i need to change stuff to make it actually compile, because i don't know C++ 21:55:56 -!- Sepik121 has quit [Client Quit] 21:56:27 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:57:12 No one knows C++. 21:57:17 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:57:34 |amethyst: do you know C++? 21:57:36 :S. "(gd) info symbol 0x5db138" -> "foo() + 7 in section ..." but "addr2line --exe=crawl.exe 0x5db138" -> "??:0". gdb knows something addr2line doesn't 21:57:39 gdb* 21:58:02 blackcustard: hmm :-( 21:58:09 the address is consistent across starting the process a couple times. i got it by setting a breakpoint on a function 21:58:33 "break foo", where foo is a function i have input calling that recurses ~80 times and then throws SIGABRT 21:58:40 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:03 SamB: There are some grotesque edge cases 21:59:16 As opposed to Grotesk edge cases? 21:59:27 Grunt: Only in Deutsch 21:59:29 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:21 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:01:25 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:39 and addr2line gives ??:0 for all the addresses that pop out of the stack trace too. 22:01:52 -!- Ryak has quit [Quit: Pull the pin and count to what?] 22:02:20 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:02:59 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1106-gbad966c: Some basic dialogue for the Forest uniques. 10(78 seconds ago, 1 file, 58+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bad966ce8303 22:05:16 bh: https://github.com/Eronarn/Crawling-Chaos/tree/lorc_rebase_bh_wip 22:05:50 Grunt: does lainiw show up in here ever? 22:06:08 Eronarn: lainiw is mainly around in ##crawl. 22:07:14 -!- lainiw has joined ##crawl-dev 22:07:26 ...but can be summoned here with the right invocations :b 22:07:51 what exciting things are happening 22:07:51 lainiw: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:08:24 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.] 22:08:52 * Grunt bothers Eronarn. 22:10:38 i did read the messages he put in ##crawl 22:10:38 lainiw: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 22:10:42 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:54 same result with fewer recursions (there is a cut off at some number i don't remember right now where it won't go farther) 22:12:08 60 something frames 22:12:17 not very exciting other than woo lava orcs, i guess 22:12:34 lava orcs are pretty exciting 22:12:43 You might say they're pretty hot. 22:12:47 that branch is currently off of dec, but going dec->now is going to be much easier than actually making their codebase good 22:13:34 i did make a rough rebase of lava orcs to 0.13 like a week or two ago or something like that 22:13:44 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:49 otoh; loading the binary in gdb and doing "(gdb) info line *0xXXXXXXX" does get the right information. i don't think you can automate that ... but if you have the binary this makes the windows crash dumps entirely usable 22:14:53 lainiw: the issue is that as written they aren't suitable for a merge, that's what my rebase was doing 22:14:59 stuff like moving all the temperature code to temperature.cc 22:15:15 oh, yes mine was definitely not suitiable to anything like that 22:15:36 (for each 0xXXXXXXXX in the stack trace) 22:15:47 lainiw: well if you want to be a hero you could do another round of work on lorcs! (i am too busy to devote enough time and noody else wants to take on the role) 22:16:27 You gain the coding prowess of a mighty hero. 22:17:03 how do I get gitorious to show me all the branches? 22:17:21 bh: the what now? 22:18:10 03bh 07[gargoyle] * 0.13-a0-639-g03bc5ad: Prohibit berserking while self-petrifying. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03bc5ad6694f 22:18:10 03bh 07[gargoyle] * 0.13-a0-640-gad82a94: Allow Petr Resistance to occur randomly. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad82a94a1961 22:18:17 `Branches: master abyssal-overworld aphorism146 ashtier cia-name-fullemail and 76 more…` 22:18:20 the website. it displays an abbreviated list most of the time 22:18:28 ^ yep 22:18:35 I thought we had agreed not to speak of the website 22:18:47 oh? 22:18:52 hard to do when the code is on it 22:19:11 bh: go to the source tree view 22:19:16 https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/trees/master 22:19:24 blackcustard: git branch -r too :) 22:19:26 i can definitely look at it but i barely know what i am doing, i'll send you a message if i think i do anything promising 22:19:30 well yeah, also that 22:19:38 MarvinPA: thanks 22:25:16 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:26:14 -!- st_ has quit [] 22:29:40 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:35:53 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 22:39:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:40:27 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:42:37 -!- Dixlet_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:44:24 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:44:53 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:46:47 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:48:04 -!- nosferax has quit [] 22:49:59 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 22:51:29 hm. giving electric form passive static discharge is problematic due to allies. How about auto-targeting shock? 22:51:38 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:23 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:00:11 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:02:01 -!- brawndo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:07:18 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:09:10 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:13:10 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 23:13:44 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1107-g4cd4b68: Appropriate some unused tiles for forest monsters. 10(16 minutes ago, 13 files, 24+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4cd4b6875ad6 23:13:59 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:14:30 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:14:48 ??forest 23:14:49 forest[1/2]: Currently D:19-26 whole level vault mock up of the forest branch. Lots of trees and spriggans. Ruled by the Enchantress. Watch out for druids, berserkers, defenders, and her (the first can use {awaken forest}, the last two have silly EV and get distortion weapons a lot). 23:15:09 ??forest[2] 23:15:10 forest[2/2]: Set the trees on fire to win. 23:20:35 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:21:06 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:21:26 Grunt: FR: you can leave the bottom of forest and rejoin the dungeon. 23:22:49 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:23:10 How deep into the forest can you go? Half way :) 23:27:17 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:27:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:30:01 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:30:38 -!- NekoRex has quit [Quit: "All the vain and ignorant will look up and shout 'Save us!', and I'll look down and whisper... 'Nyo.'"] 23:31:39 gcc complains about error; mentions names that do not appear on that line; try gcc -E and check the preprocessor output ... there is a macro. this is part of the output "__asm call x __asm x: pop eax ..." 23:31:43 i'm not gonna debug that. 23:31:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:02 this is not crawl, it's another library i was trying to see if it would help 23:32:24 blackcustard: it sounds like the library is intended for MSVC 23:32:42 it's supposed to work for mingw too .. or at least i thought so 23:33:12 check for conditionals 23:33:35 i thought inline assembly was part of the c++ standard though? or is it the __asm with the double underscore that is special 23:33:35 preprocessor conditionals, I mean 23:33:41 hmm yeah 23:34:00 that isn't GCC's assembly syntax 23:34:14 GCC's involves string literals 23:34:31 -!- brawndo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:35:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:32 <|amethyst> standard C++ inline assembly is asm("string literal"); 23:36:59 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:37:03 <|amethyst> the meaning (and even the syntax of the string literal) is implementation-defined 23:37:34 that sounds HIGHLY standard 23:38:16 <|amethyst> well, as loose as that is and MSVC still does it a different way :/ 23:38:51 <|amethyst> (to be fair, that's because MSVC supported inline assembly way longer than the C++ standard provided that placeholder syntax for it) 23:39:13 <|amethyst> s/longer/earlier/ 23:40:03 what does the standard think about GCC's syntax 23:40:16 it's over ... err ... maybe i should go to sleep soon 23:40:24 I mean, for when you actually wanted to do something with a variable or expression at some point 23:41:52 * SamB thinks the standard should have done something more like the syntax for attributes, and gone with asm($balanced-whatsit) 23:42:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:42:22 <|amethyst> SamB: well, it's actually asm ( string-literal ); so you can use balanced whatsits in C+11 23:42:27 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:42:28 <|amethyst> s/+/++/ 23:43:04 <|amethyst> well, not balanced exactly, but arbitrary delimiters 23:43:25 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:05 <|amethyst> if you required it to be balanced you'd have problems with ElliotRISC where the opcodes look like ??mv[2 23:44:09 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:20 <|amethyst> s/iot/iott/ 23:44:28 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:44:59 the compiler can't tell where the thing ends if you don't keep things balanced, though, can it? 23:45:20 or, well, a DIFFERENT one can't 23:45:27 <|amethyst> SamB: the idea is you pick an arbitarily long delimiter that won't occur in your string 23:45:39 of course it won't make any sense of it anyway though so I'm not sure how standardizing helped 23:46:01 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:46:22 I guess you probably haven't played much with GCC's __asm__ 23:46:54 <|amethyst> A bit, and I agree that it doesn't necessarily fit into the C++ syntax that well 23:47:02 <|amethyst> but you could at least theoretically do 23:47:08 <|amethyst> asm(R"verbatim( 23:47:19 <|amethyst> 23:47:26 <|amethyst> )verbatim" 23:47:33 I'm talking about the part that comes after the string 23:47:46 you know, the operands specs? 23:47:55 <|amethyst> SamB: put all of that, string included, in the 23:48:02 <|amethyst> SamB: not saying it's pretty 23:48:16 can GCC parse that? 23:48:18 I doubt it 23:48:21 <|amethyst> I doubt it 23:48:27 so what's the point 23:49:07 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1108-gdc5062f: Basic tiles for two of the forest monsters. 10(4 minutes ago, 5 files, 13+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dc5062ff1de1 23:49:09 <|amethyst> to claim "we support standard C++ inline assembly"? :) 23:49:09 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:49:30 no actual benefit though 23:49:34 <|amethyst> no 23:49:39 <|amethyst> well 23:49:47 <|amethyst> it does mean other compilers won't choke on it 23:49:49 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:49:58 !tell ontoclasm I've managed to get Forest to the point where there are only four things in need of tiles (two uniques and the fauns/satyrs I think you were working on previously), in case you want to take a stab at them in the not too distant future. :) 23:49:59 Grunt: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 23:50:06 <|amethyst> well, they'll choke semantically 23:50:12 exactly! 23:50:16 You choke over your semantics. You die... 23:50:17 you have to #ifdef it out ANYWAY 23:51:28 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 23:52:18 attributes have a saner syntax, but it's more pointful there since it's actually reasonable to have attributes seen regardless of whether the compiler knows them 23:52:35 Oh hi, ontoclasm <_< 23:52:49 since they can be assumed to have no effect on unaware compilers 23:55:33 anyway, here's the first example from "(gcc)Extended Asm": 23:55:33 For example, here is how to use the 68881's `fsinx' instruction: 23:55:33 asm ("fsinx %1,%0" : "=f" (result) : "f" (angle)); 23:55:48 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 23:56:12 it would have made more sense if they'd spec'd things so that was allowed 23:56:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:58:53 Grunt: talking about me behind me back eh 23:58:53 ontoclasm: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 23:58:59 ...or to me 23:59:02 !messages 23:59:03 (1/3) mumra said (4d 5h 25m 30s ago): I did a thing http://snag.gy/MAF9J.jpg -- the code is on cloud-overlays branch, let me know if you have any comments about whether this could look better, currently the base tile is just sandwiched between two 50% transparency clouds 23:59:18 !messages 23:59:18 (1/2) mumra said (4d 5h 21m 43s ago): Also see my change re webtraps in trunk, I used a semi-transparent web as an overlay instead of the old net tile, it doesn't look perfect but let me know what you think 23:59:24 !messages 23:59:25 (1/1) Grunt said (9m 26s ago): I've managed to get Forest to the point where there are only four things in need of tiles (two uniques and the fauns/satyrs I think you were working on previously), in case you want to take a stab at them in the not too distant future. :)