00:01:05 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.1-39-g8e7df79 00:02:34 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:05:26 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:40 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12.1-39-g8e7df79 (34) 00:06:36 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-910-g60f276d (34) 00:13:11 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-910-g60f276d (34) 00:16:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:19:25 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:23 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:20:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:23:24 -!- sym has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:25:13 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.1-40-g207437e 00:27:35 03|amethyst 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12.1-40-g207437e: Don't let known-type jewellery block auto-id (#7081). 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=207437e9423a 00:27:37 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:30:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:30:57 |amethyst: did I do that ? 00:31:06 <|amethyst> SamB: no, I did 00:31:08 <|amethyst> well 00:32:40 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:33:01 <|amethyst> I think it was you who cherry-picked my commit into 0.12 00:33:57 when did we fix this issue in trunk, or did it not happen there? 00:34:36 * SamB goes to read the actual report 00:34:41 <|amethyst> SamB: MarvinPA fixed it with 00:34:47 <|amethyst> %git ab36ef97 00:34:47 03MarvinPA * 0.13-a0-208-gab36ef9: Don't require equipment juggling to autoidentify evokable jewellery 10(7 weeks ago, 1 file, 16+ 23-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab36ef975590 00:35:01 right 00:35:14 so I guess it wasn't a bug but a misfeature anyway? 00:35:15 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 00:35:59 <|amethyst> well, the fact that it cared about "ring of protection from fire" versus "ring of protection from fire" was a bug, and is what that most recent commit fixes 00:36:04 |amethyst: actually though I think the SInv must have been a different commit 00:36:24 <|amethyst> %git 0d480aa 00:36:34 03|amethyst * 0.12-a0-3193-g0d480aa: Fix unknown-jewellery identification blocking (#6850) 10(8 weeks ago, 1 file, 7+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d480aada19b 00:36:39 <|amethyst> %git f28b45c 00:36:39 03|amethyst * 0.13-a0-96-gf28b45c: Fix unknown-jewellery identification blocking (#6850) 10(8 weeks ago, 1 file, 7+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f28b45c4aec4 00:37:01 <|amethyst> that commit (which you cherry-picked) was the one that "introduced" the bug I just fixed 00:37:05 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:37:06 oh 00:37:09 <|amethyst> but the situation was even worse before 00:37:17 <|amethyst> since it was looking at ISFLAG_KNOW_PROPERTIES 00:37:24 <|amethyst> which isn't even meaningful for non-artefacts 00:37:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:37:43 <|amethyst> and *that* bug was exposed by 00:37:43 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:37:44 <|amethyst> %git 4bb9ef0 00:37:45 03SamB * 0.12-a0-3188-g4bb9ef0: Try to fix auto-ID of randart jewellery. 10(8 weeks ago, 3 files, 8+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4bb9ef030d51 00:38:02 <|amethyst> Which (correctly I think) stopped setting ISFLAG_KNOW_PROPERTIES on non-artefacts 00:38:12 I guess it *was* meaningful for non-artefact jewellery even though it was supposed not to be 00:38:57 <|amethyst> SamB: well, it meant "this item has been wear-ided" 00:39:14 <|amethyst> and possibly only certain kinds of wear-ided 00:39:16 I guess I'm curious why this last commit you made seems not to be a cherry-pick 00:39:42 <|amethyst> SamB: I didn't want to cherry-pick MarvinPA's change because that's not just a bugfix 00:39:49 ah 00:40:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:27 but for SInv wouldn't that actually be more to do with my follow-on for passive jewellery? 00:40:47 <|amethyst> oh, right 00:40:54 which would have been a really good thing to call it in the commit message -- oops ;-) 00:40:55 <|amethyst> what's that commit? 00:41:22 <|amethyst> ah 00:41:32 <|amethyst> %git 28c38b4c0 00:41:32 03SamB * 0.13-a0-265-g28c38b4: Don't require juggling to wear-ID delayed-action jewellery like SInv and resists 10(7 weeks ago, 1 file, 0+ 48-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=28c38b4c00fe 00:42:46 <|amethyst> I missed it because I was grepping for /dentif/ instead of /ID/ 00:42:52 ah 00:42:59 sorry 00:43:47 <|amethyst> I was actually a little confused when I saw that it was MarvinPA's commit, because I thought you had done it 00:44:01 <|amethyst> which was because you *had* done it :) 00:44:40 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:37 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-910-g60f276d 00:46:11 anway, I'm pretty happy about what we've done with the jewellery identification story :-) 00:47:35 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:47:58 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:17 <|amethyst> next step: identify wands on first zap 00:49:32 maybe you should do that "const item_def &it = you.inv[you.equip[i]];" thing to the current code too? 00:50:39 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:43 <|amethyst> SamB: it's already there 00:51:00 ah 00:51:12 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:51:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:52:07 <|amethyst> the part that actually does the identification already used a reference; and the part that looks for unided jewellery isn't around anymore 00:52:41 right, I guess I zapped that in my change 00:53:54 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:22 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:37 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:44 <|amethyst> http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/1elsii/your_most_hated_roguelike_features/ca1jxal mentions the wand ID thing 00:57:28 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:57:30 so implement it? 00:57:46 <|amethyst> it also alludes to orb spiders, but I am unapologetic about those :) 00:57:50 yeah 00:57:54 I don't see the problem 00:58:30 I mean sure I wan't to spend as little time as possible in their line of fire 00:58:49 but that's true of lots of stuff so 01:01:16 the hardest part is coming up with an explanation for the PC to ID the wands that don't always ID yet ... 01:02:22 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:02:29 like "you feel a sense of control" or "you feel a little drowsy" or ... 01:02:59 what should it be for digging? 01:03:00 you can use colours for some, like enchant weapon X 01:03:43 'you cannot tunnel through !' 01:03:54 <|amethyst> well, we currently don't explain how you tell that a wand is empty 01:04:04 -!- Nikolaos has quit [] 01:04:09 <|amethyst> if it's a wand with non-obvious effect 01:04:50 I was going off random effects 01:05:03 ??random effects 01:05:03 wand of random effects[1/2]: An unreliable wand which acts like a random wand. You might cook Sigmund, or haste him. Doesn't include heal wounds. Does include draining -- the good gods won't like it if that happens. Also good for digging. 01:05:07 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05:22 "good" for digging, huh? 01:05:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:05:50 <|amethyst> !learn edit wand_of_random_effects[1] s/ Also.*// 01:05:50 wand of random effects[1/2]: An unreliable wand which acts like a random wand. You might cook Sigmund, or haste him. Doesn't include heal wounds. Does include draining -- the good gods won't like it if that happens. 01:07:31 <|amethyst> I mean, sure, if you need to dig but don't care about how long it takes or how much noise you make, and you're careful to stand out of the path of a fireball or a reflected lightning bolt, and... 01:07:51 ... have a lot of charges left? 01:08:11 <|amethyst> yeah :) 01:09:02 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:08 <|amethyst> scroll ID could also be improved I think 01:09:31 <|amethyst> if we're ripping apart the "ID game" anyway 01:09:47 <|amethyst> there are, what, three or four scrolls that don't always auto-id? 01:10:24 <|amethyst> (ignoring the item-manipulation scrolls) 01:11:15 dunno 01:11:22 <|amethyst> OTOH, I guess always identifying curse foo even if you don't have a foo has its own problems 01:11:22 remove curse, curse foo, that might be it now? 01:11:28 <|amethyst> rchandra: amnesia 01:11:28 amnesia 01:12:14 <|amethyst> currently, if you want to ID scrolls (and have a remove curse to spare), you should wear a piece of jewellery, a piece of armour, and a weapon 01:12:16 pretty much just curse-related and amnesia 01:12:31 <|amethyst> but if they always ID, that means you should get naked 01:12:34 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:12:42 that latter is worse 01:12:45 <|amethyst> yeah 01:12:48 well if a scroll doesn't ID chances are very high you don't care about it 01:13:55 you can just wait to try until you have a spell and something cursed on (and you can wait to try things that might curse until you have a pile that seems like it's a curse scroll) 01:14:07 remove curse, I mean 01:14:18 <|amethyst> could just make amnesia always ID 01:14:32 <|amethyst> then if it doesn't ID it must be curse-related and you should worship Ash 01:14:48 you could certainly come up with an easy flavor justification, as far as anyone even cares about that 01:14:58 yeah that sounds good 01:15:22 'You forget your name for a moment' 01:15:35 "Where am I? Oh right..." 01:16:05 Also on the orb spiders note, being unapologetic about those is fine even if they are one of the most annoying things in the game right now 01:16:17 because there are actually plenty of ways to get around the "problem" 01:16:32 So it manages to be annoying in a tactically interesting way 01:16:48 ...is probably what you already knew, but yeah 01:16:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:17:14 I guess the distinction is between annoying vs. annoying and also pointless 01:17:23 <|amethyst> :) 01:17:49 <|amethyst> it's not like spider isn't full of things to duck behind :) 01:17:56 for example, other spiders 01:18:35 but it's also good orbdodging practice, even if that skill is one of the harder ones to grasp and also least likely to be useful in a normal game 01:19:32 <|amethyst> I know I'm biased, but the few times I have encountered orb spiders in a real game I have found it to be an exciting experience 01:19:34 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:19:43 they're also a really good wand target (for pretty much every kind of wand you might have, even) 01:19:50 <|amethyst> !lg . killer=orb spider 01:19:51 No games for |amethyst (killer=orb spider). 01:19:58 <|amethyst> !lg . killer~~orb spider 01:19:59 2. neil the Merfolkian Porcupine (L18 MfBe), worshipper of Trog, blown up by an orb spider on Spider:5 (spider_rune_water) on 2012-11-27 02:53:12, with 191490 points after 37209 turns and 2:05:03. 01:20:14 <|amethyst> !lm . rune=gossamer 01:20:15 1. [2012-08-27 17:19:49] neil the Phalangite (L24 MiGl) found a gossamer rune of Zot on turn 81387. (Spider:5) 01:20:36 I mean, worst case a lot of characters can take several hits from them with no real problem 01:21:10 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:21:33 The contrast is that I think the id minigames mostly fall into the other category of annoyance 01:22:33 <|amethyst> and we do a half-assed job of it 01:22:52 the effect ends up being that you read everything, lose 1-3 of each type of scroll (sometimes without effect), or when you find identify you can occasionally use it to check something you suspect is a rare scroll 01:23:23 for scrolls anyway 01:24:09 It's a bit more complicated than that when you consider every item, but I don't know if anybody was suggesting moving -everything- to ID on use 01:24:42 <|amethyst> I'm half-suggesting it 01:24:42 although the funny thing is, I think just doing that wouldn't even change the behavior of the ID game a lot, but people would get to keep a couple more of some scrolls and be less annoyed in general 01:25:14 you still wouldn't know what you have until you use it, and there would still be advantages and disadvantages to certain ways of attempting to identify your inventory 01:26:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:26:58 And it'd seem strange to me if maybe getting one extra recharge or enchant armour ended up being a balance problem 01:29:35 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:49 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:34:07 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:37:22 yeah my main concert WRT justification of this stuff is that the one-liners be sufficiently amusing 01:46:43 -!- kwel01 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:47:34 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:47:48 TheSomberlain the Swordmaster (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 177 failed on turn 92644. (Zot:1) 01:48:17 TheSomberlain the Swordmaster (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 177 failed on turn 92643. (Zot:1) 01:49:42 |amethyst: *sigh* 01:53:27 <|amethyst> !lm TheSomberlain crash -log 01:53:27 2. TheSomberlain, XL27 MiFi, T:92643 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/TheSomberlain/crash-TheSomberlain-20130525-064816.txt 01:53:28 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:53:49 <|amethyst> needs an update 01:54:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:56:23 -!- squimmy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:57:14 <|amethyst> hrm 01:57:22 <|amethyst> why isn't it using ccache? 02:01:57 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:03:49 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:06:04 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:17 <|amethyst> ohh right 02:06:24 <|amethyst> because it uses sudo 02:07:47 <|amethyst> well, that ought to speed up CAO rebuilds quite a bit :) 02:08:10 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.1-40-g207437e 02:08:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:15:34 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:18:15 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:37:15 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:37:47 -!- rwbarton1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:37:47 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:43:17 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:43:19 -!- gvdm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:45:28 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:48:44 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 09:49:19 -!- ragingrage has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:50:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:56:05 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:56:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:59:29 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 10:02:50 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:04:29 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:39 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:13:37 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:49 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:24:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:27:35 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:52 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 10:33:16 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:38:27 what is all this stuff? do i need to care about it? http://pastebin.ca/2382042 10:39:11 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:39:21 i thought it would go away with some combination of "git pull" and "git reset --hard HEAD" .. but it doesn't 10:41:34 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:44 -!- gvdm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:29 git submodule update 10:45:26 ty 10:53:09 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:54:02 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:22 -!- HandiCraftsman has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:56:53 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:59:39 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:02:21 -!- Vizerrr has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:02:27 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 11:02:58 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 11:05:22 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 11:06:44 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:07:24 incoming awesome stuff 11:07:29 if you care about tiles ;) 11:09:27 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-911-g8f2e336: Implement cloud alpha overlay tiles layer 10(2 days ago, 13 files, 64+ 16-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8f2e336bb97b 11:09:27 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-912-g65bbc6c: Implement the cloud overlay in Webtiles. 10(28 hours ago, 3 files, 42+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=65bbc6cf12d9 11:09:27 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-913-g8b2a8f1: Prevent a potential Webtiles bug. 10(27 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8b2a8f1c623a 11:09:27 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-914-g32fdd82: Give cloud overlays an alpha gradient 10(28 minutes ago, 3 files, 20+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=32fdd823f23a 11:09:27 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-915-g360b0b5: Tweak cloud alpha values 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=360b0b5e17cd 11:09:27 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-916-g29f3502: Give webtiles clouds a submerged look also 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 18+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=29f3502f62db 11:09:28 -!- kwel01 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:10:02 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:52 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-916-g29f3502 (34) 11:13:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:14:27 so I just did elf on a felid and got loot that contained no armour and no weapons 11:14:33 which strikes me as likely buggy 11:16:20 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:17:49 -!- rkd has quit [] 11:17:52 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-917-gf47888c (34) 11:19:33 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-917-gf47888c: Balance webtiles alphas 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f47888c8ca27 11:19:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:23:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:21 Blade-: it probably uses acquirement code, it'll only give you things it's actually possible to use 11:27:33 that's what I was assuming 11:27:47 it seems like something that shouldn't happen, though 11:31:04 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:18 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 11:32:11 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:32:12 well i'm pretty sure it's by design 11:32:52 -!- doome has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:32:57 hm. I thought that the dungeon wasn't supposed to respond to player choices 11:33:05 with the exception of troves 11:33:48 well, I'm not really sure why it makes more sense for trove loot to be based on the player than elf loot 11:34:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:34:17 well, um, you see, ummmm 11:34:18 it does seem a bit strange that some maps have tons of guaranteed-non-useless loot and others do not, though 11:34:28 well, troves are magical portals 11:34:41 elf is just a regular part of the dungeon 11:35:16 <|amethyst> 0.11 elf didn't do that 11:35:33 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:35 i think it is a bug especially because things like vaults that depend on your xl were fixed 11:35:45 and also it means elf loot depends on what god you enter elf:3 with initially?? 11:35:49 it looks like tomb (which definitely does this also currently) is just using '|' to place the loot 11:36:03 which I guess is used a lot of places 11:36:19 <|amethyst> 0.12 seems to have this behaviour and 0.11 doesn't 11:36:29 |amethyst: sounds like a bug then 11:37:11 I think it is okay that places that actually use acquirement code have this behaviour (like troves), but afaik '|' doesn't use acquirement 11:37:53 oh troves even have a weird thing in their description as an excuse for them being tailored to the player 11:38:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:38:21 but yeah definitely sounds like a bug if it happens in elf or other branch ends 11:38:25 though I guess the vaultmaking docs claim | is "acquirement-level" so maybe I'm wrong? 11:38:49 i think acquirement-level just means it's a high quality item, but it doesn't use acquirement code 11:38:52 using | just increases the item level to a huge number 11:38:59 "acquire any" items use acquirement code 11:39:03 evilmike: yeah that's what I thought 11:39:19 if you make an item "acquire any" it's guaranteed to be usable. You can also do "useful any", or something close to that 11:39:22 I guess someone should look over docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt sometime then 11:39:31 this is pretty much the only thing where vaults tailor themselves to your character 11:39:43 evilmike: right, except apparently '|' is doing this too in 0.12 11:40:00 hmm that's new, unless I completely misunderstood how it works all this time 11:40:27 |amethyst checked 0.11 I guess and it wasn't happening then, so yeah 11:40:27 elliptic: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:41:31 <|amethyst> I'm testing likely commits now 11:41:52 vaults with lots of | definitely shouldn't be all acquirement items, in any case 11:42:04 learn add epic bugs 11:42:35 the vaults which do that are only supposed to place like 1 item like that, the idea is just to make the "main" piece of loot a bit better so you're able to use it 11:44:13 -!- tigertrap has quit [Quit: tigertrap] 11:49:39 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:40 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:53:25 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:53:29 -!- Koolguydude_ is now known as Koolguydude 11:56:40 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 11:57:23 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:17:04 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-917-gf47888c (34) 12:21:11 -!- sildraith has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:22:43 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:24:23 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:27 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:38 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:05 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:28:05 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:28:13 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:16 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:55 wasn't there consensus that "acquire foo" shouldn't be used outside of Troves and special game modes? 12:36:10 well the problem here seems to be that | is using acquirement code when it's not supposed to 12:37:00 unless there are other non-trove vaults that do explicitly use "acquire foo", not sure 12:37:35 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: there are some, but this isn't one of them 12:37:39 i agree it shouldn't be used unless there's some really good reason to though, yeah 12:38:25 There are some, but it's generally a case of a bunch of loot, and then one piece of acquirement loot 12:38:53 <|amethyst> okay, this is weird 12:39:05 these could be safely changed to use |, it doesn't matter much either way. The effect on gameplay is almost impossible to notice 12:39:07 <|amethyst> I found the commit, but don't see why it has the problem 12:39:13 <|amethyst> %git c3f6954 12:39:13 03HangedMan * 0.12-a0-608-gc3f6954: Gives the no_pickup item property to the loot in Tomb/Elf:$ 10(8 months ago, 2 files, 8+ 15-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3f69547bbf2 12:40:10 huh... 12:40:10 <|amethyst> It changes a bunch of | to | no_pickup and moves some kitem() calls from elf_loot_randomisation to elf_setup 12:40:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:41:06 <|amethyst> first let me try stripping the no_pickup 12:41:10 that commit made elf:$ more boring anyway :P 12:41:48 yeah i'm not sure elf needs to use it, it was mainly just meant for zigs and maybe tomb 12:42:12 elf is a place where the monsters can get some use out of the loot 12:42:56 yeah, it was a fun part of Elf 12:43:44 would be good to understand why that commit breaks it before reverting it though of course :P 12:43:47 <|amethyst> the no_pickup tag isn't the problem 12:44:04 well there are problems with monsters hoovering up all the gold in tomb:3, and stuff like that 12:44:31 i do like it when monsters use items from the level though. maybe we should just let monsters spawn with loot more often 12:44:33 <|amethyst> err 12:44:34 right, it's more appropriate in tomb because mummies aren't going to be using the loot against you in any worthwhile way there 12:44:39 <|amethyst> wait, I should clear my des cache 12:45:07 i didn't spot that commit did tomb as well as elf, i just meant reverting the elf part 12:46:45 <|amethyst> yeah, no_pickup doesn't change anything 12:46:55 <|amethyst> it's something to do with the other restructuring in that commit 12:47:50 -!- doome has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:48:18 -!- HandiCraftsman has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:48:43 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:20 MarvinPA: guardian mummies with darts of frost!!!! 12:50:31 <|amethyst> okay 12:51:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:54:24 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:00 <|amethyst> in elf_setup 12:55:31 <|amethyst> if I change e.kitem("$ = $ no_pickup") to e.kitem("$ = $") there is no change 12:55:44 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 12:55:55 <|amethyst> if I change it to e.kfeat("$ = $") as it was before hangedman's commit, I get weapons and armour again 12:56:37 <|amethyst> so it sounds like "|" on the RHS of an ITEM declaration isn't working right 12:56:45 <|amethyst> err, when I said "$" I meant all three of them 13:00:34 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:01:56 -!- TZer0 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 13:02:31 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:10:07 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:09 <|amethyst> you can also see this with wizmode &%* and &%| 13:10:22 <|amethyst> &%any seems fine 13:12:05 <|amethyst> oh 13:12:33 <|amethyst> take a look at dgn_place_item and specifically at bool adjust_type = true; 13:12:45 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:13:57 <|amethyst> you get the same thing with "any damaged" 13:14:08 <|amethyst> it gives you books, jewellery, and misc 13:14:57 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:15:22 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:27 <|amethyst> %git 72ad04a 13:16:27 03kilobyte * 0.8.0-a0-5302-g72ad04a: Fix doubled OBJ_WEAPONS, enable OBJ_WANDS for "acquire any". Handle kitties. 10(2 years, 3 months ago, 1 file, 13+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=72ad04a34201 13:16:47 it seems like, when felids die, they shouldn't regain their next life at an even xl 13:16:50 <|amethyst> that was suppoed to change "acquire any" but actually changed all specced items 13:16:54 since that makes it "safer" to die when you're near an xl 13:17:00 which is fairly arbitrary 13:17:39 <|amethyst> ell, all items with a spec.level < 0 13:17:51 <|amethyst> good, superb, damaed, bad, randart, mundane, acquirement 13:19:59 <|amethyst> so 13:20:20 <|amethyst> should ISPEC_SUPERB and ISPEC_GOOD give you only acquirement-subtype items? 13:20:23 <|amethyst> I would guess no 13:20:45 <|amethyst> but that would be a pretty significant change, not just to felids 13:21:00 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:04 <|amethyst> in that good_item could give you food 13:21:23 | and ISPEC_SUPERB are meant to only set the depth to 351, not do to anything acquirement-like 13:21:42 <|amethyst> kilobyte: so | should be able to give you food, scrolls, potions? 13:21:50 |amethyst: Food is already an acquirement subtype, though? 13:21:56 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: not in this list :) 13:22:02 Oh 13:22:10 <|amethyst> _acquirement_item_classes 13:22:21 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:32 in general, getting food as "superb loot" tends to feel like you've been cheated 13:22:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: right 13:22:40 Yes 13:22:53 Scrolls and potions can be pretty superbe depending on which they are, though 13:23:06 well so does getting items you can't use 13:23:09 But I don't think high item depth is good at filtering out the bad ones? 13:23:10 and i thought that was desirable here 13:24:13 -!- Krag has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:21 <|amethyst> also, currently ISPEC_ items are selected uniformly from the acq categories jewellery, books, misc, weapons, armour, wands, staves 13:24:47 oh probably this is related to the fact that you can't get rods from | any more then? 13:24:53 getting food with | is at least usable. crawl thinks misc items are a good choice for | 13:24:57 Well, they're under staff acquirement, yes? 13:24:58 <|amethyst> yeah 13:25:00 which is fine for decks, not so fine for boxes of beasts 13:25:08 evilmike: Well, some should be better soon, hopefully! ^^; 13:25:10 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: it's not using acquirement code 13:25:13 DracoOmega: nice 13:25:18 Admittedly box of beasts is not something I have yet touched 13:25:21 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6281 13:25:23 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:27 but yeah it would be good to fix it so | just changes the item level again 13:25:28 MarvinPA: where is "here" again? 13:25:48 |'s behaviour 13:25:58 and various other vault item definitions 13:26:21 I remember considering making either only the * or the | of the elf vault loot no_pickup to deal with both concerns about no loot actually in the loot chambers and elves not getting to enjoy loot 13:26:34 but I never decided what of the either to set as such 13:26:38 isn't | supposed to be "acquirement-level"? 13:26:40 <|amethyst> %git f95c6bfc 13:26:40 03greensnark * rf95c6bfc4d63: Fixed ziggurat not generating acquirement-level items. 10(4 years, 6 months ago, 1 file, 20+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f95c6bfc4d63 13:26:50 acquirement-level is bad wording 13:26:58 quite so 13:26:59 SamB: the help file is a bit misleading. it only means "high level" by that 13:27:00 it's meant to be high quality, it's not meant to use acquirement code 13:27:01 so I guess you should rewrite the docs 13:27:07 <|amethyst> so 13:27:26 <|amethyst> is | currently bad for non-felids? 13:27:49 possibly add a reference to the code actually responsible? 13:28:03 <|amethyst> do we want to make zigs generate more food, scrolls, potions, missiles, and gold? 13:28:12 <|amethyst> zigs, elf:$, tomb:$, etc 13:28:21 isn't that how they used to work before this? 13:28:35 <|amethyst> before greensnark's commit 4.5 years ago 13:29:13 oh i see 13:29:14 seems fine so long as those item classes do get adjusted for being high-level somehow 13:29:18 is it useful for | to spawn food in zotdef? 13:29:23 <|amethyst> before the felid change, they still used acquirement_item_classes but didn't special-case felids 13:29:28 no, zotdef has no hunger 13:29:43 i think potions can be a hell of a lot more useful than a lot of the zig loot you get 13:29:54 tenofswords: yeah, that's why I asked 13:29:55 imagine getting lots of good mutation potions, or heal wounds, or whatever 13:30:08 <|amethyst> let's see 13:30:13 Are Zigs special-cased for cure mutation being as common there as it is? 13:30:18 Like, those are not just |s I guess? 13:30:29 well zig loot is whatever anyway, basically every other use of | ever is more worth worrying about 13:30:58 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: actually 13:31:00 but yeah cmut is specially added 13:31:18 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: I think just | on the map is fine 13:31:30 -!- ZRN has quit [Client Quit] 13:31:33 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: it seems to be when you write good_item or superb_item 13:31:49 <|amethyst> (or ITEM: | = | 13:31:51 <|amethyst> ) 13:31:51 So they aren't actually the same, even though they're supposed to be? 13:32:02 oookay 13:32:06 they absolutely should behave the same way 13:32:13 QUITE 13:32:24 | should just be shorthand for superb_item 13:33:41 <|amethyst> well, elf loot seems pretty disappointing when using the usual base-type selection code 13:33:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:34:11 <|amethyst> I mean, yeah, I got scrolls of torment silence, and holy word... but also random uselessness, curse armour, etc 13:34:23 <|amethyst> and there were pretty much no artefacts 13:34:38 <|amethyst> also a lot of ammo 13:34:49 Well, probably the quality of Elf:$ loot is fine as it is. It just shouldn't act odd for felids 13:35:03 <|amethyst> I will make the bare minimum change for that 13:35:54 i think it's fine to ensure vault loot is quality. it should just be a bit less weird than having "ITEM: | = |" causing it to behave completely differently 13:36:24 yes, whatever else is true, that should be idempotent 13:36:57 I mean if you haven't already done something else to | 13:38:19 -!- Implojin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:38:24 -!- tureba_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:39:24 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:36 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:41:23 <|amethyst> oh 13:41:55 <|amethyst> it's not clear to me how to correctly balance making them the same 13:42:32 <|amethyst> the relevant code: dungeon.cc lines 4841-4850 handles the | grid glyph 13:42:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:43:13 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:43:38 <|amethyst> lines 4260-4290 handle "superb_item" and ITEM: | = | 13:43:43 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:06 <|amethyst> superb_item currently chooses uniformly from weapons, armour, staves, etc 13:44:15 <|amethyst> the | glyph has its on base type weights 13:44:28 <|amethyst> s/ on/ own/ 13:44:35 <|amethyst> and normal junk generation has *its own* base type weights 13:44:53 nice 13:45:08 <|amethyst> (makeitem.cc : 3153 - 3166) 13:45:23 <|amethyst> I'll push a commit to fix the felid thing though 13:45:38 <|amethyst> but probably my fix will be obsolete once we decide how to properly handle it 13:46:43 -!- wariowadness has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:48:16 <|amethyst> I'm not going to add rods to the list just yet because right now it's an unweighted list 13:48:29 -!- n1000_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:31 <|amethyst> so they would be as common as weapons 13:48:43 <|amethyst> in superb_item loot that is 13:49:42 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 13:50:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:02 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-918-ga52de0b: Make superb_item etc. cat-agnostic. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a52de0bc0c82 13:51:34 so I have a bug, a staircase appearing underneath a plant in lair. should I file a report with just that information or would something more be helpful? 13:52:09 <|amethyst> n1000_: there's a similar existing bug 13:52:13 <|amethyst> n1000_: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7007 13:52:27 <|amethyst> n1000_: add a note there 13:52:30 ah thanks, |amethyst 13:52:44 searched for variants of stair,staircase and plant but not fungus/shop! 13:53:10 <|amethyst> I'll retitle it 13:56:08 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 13:57:18 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:29 <|amethyst> ohh 13:58:23 <|amethyst> they were the same distribution before 1. kilobyte made superb_item, acquire any, etc. not double the chance of weapons; and 2. rods were split from staves 13:59:15 is this related to | never giving rods 13:59:23 <|amethyst> yes 13:59:29 <|amethyst> elliott: well 13:59:35 <|amethyst> elliott: the | glyph can give rods 13:59:44 <|amethyst> elliott: but with ITEM: | = | it cannot 13:59:54 hm 13:59:55 ok 14:00:24 KITEM: | = | 14:00:41 <|amethyst> err, yeah 14:00:42 <|amethyst> KITEM 14:00:42 or ITEM: | but who in the world would use that 14:03:48 <|amethyst> okay, #7082 but I guess chei should announce it soon 14:04:56 <|amethyst> sorry, I guess I shouldn't have cherry-picked that 14:05:02 <|amethyst> I wasn't thinking 14:06:16 superb_item and the "|" glyph differ by neil 14:07:07 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:18 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 14:07:49 |amethyst: you can revert it 14:07:59 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:01 <|amethyst> SamB: pushing that now :) 14:08:29 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:11 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 14:11:18 03|amethyst 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12.1-42-g0df0ca4: Revert "Make superb_item etc. cat-agnostic." 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0df0ca491b7f 14:15:50 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:18:29 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:20:55 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:21:14 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 14:22:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:22:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:22 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:32:42 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:36:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:43:28 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:45:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:31 -!- djanatyn has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 14:50:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:51:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:49 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:57:09 -!- tenofswords has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:58:24 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:01:25 klawrence 15:01:48 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-919-gc2c73ef: Allow tuning the autofight monster prioritization. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c2c73efecfad 15:03:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:03:31 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:08:32 -!- Nikolaos has quit [] 15:09:29 -!- xxx is now known as Guest46550 15:10:09 tenofswords: how does it feel that you have to come back in 1 day and 4 hours? 15:11:31 -!- Guest81510 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11:57 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:12:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte: when you removed the doubled probability for weapons, and added wands, for "acquire any" in 72ad04a 15:12:53 <|amethyst> kilobyte: 1. did you intend it to also affect superb_item etc 15:13:14 <|amethyst> kilobyte: 2. if so, did you intend it not to affect the | glyph? 15:13:26 Blade-: a tip the rune is never in there in that shop quadrant 15:13:36 welp 15:13:40 that would've been good to know but oh well 15:13:48 you could have seen it 15:13:50 <|amethyst> FR: change that 15:13:53 yes 15:13:54 if you did what i advised 15:14:00 yeah that was silly of me 15:14:02 <|amethyst> it's kind of spoilery 15:14:05 p.s. we're in -dev 15:14:11 oh sorry 15:14:20 maybe jeanjacques is trying to get it fixed 15:14:22 <|amethyst> My comments stand :) 15:15:31 I wonder if there someone who may be around soon who could fix it... 15:16:10 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:14 <|amethyst> have a chance of the rune being in a shop 15:16:19 <|amethyst> for 1 gold 15:16:48 !time 15:16:49 Time: May 25, 2013, 08:16:49 PM, UTC. The 2013 0.12 tournament ends in 1 day, 3 hours, 43 minutes and 10 seconds. 15:16:57 fugass 15:17:24 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:18:15 st_: Did he really say 'as SOON as the tournament ends'? :P 15:20:03 |amethyst: I don't remember exactly, but from the commit message it's clear I had only acquirement on mind. Still, if weapons were indeed intended to be given twice, that'd be either commented or at the very leasy placed as one block. 15:20:46 so I'm pretty sure the old code was not meant to do that 15:21:54 Well, probably a less important question is 'what was the original intent of the code' rather than 'what is considered good loot generation behavior for the relevant places now' 15:21:55 <|amethyst> kilobyte: well, it matched the weights in _vault_grid_mapspec 15:22:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: which at the time had 2 for weapons, and 1 for armour, jewellery, books, staves, misc 15:22:36 <|amethyst> (and has only changed to scale by 10 and make staves 9 and rods 1) 15:23:47 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I guess we should make a static _specced_item_weights and use that in both places 15:24:01 hrm, no idea what would be best then 15:24:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: and use _acquirement_item_clases only for "acquire any" 15:24:21 <|amethyst> s/clases/classes/ 15:25:00 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it's nice that the duplicate code is in one file, that means not having to add externs :) 15:25:31 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:25:43 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:26:48 -!- rwbarton1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:27:11 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 266 seconds] 15:30:29 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:31:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:34:52 !tell due what should we do with the Homunculus spell? Could you spill your design for it? Or should the code be removed for now? 15:34:53 kilobyte: OK, I'll let due know. 15:39:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:39:35 that was the "make summon from a potion" spell right? 15:39:51 i feel like if evaporate was removed, there's little justification for that spell 15:40:43 summons from bad potions were supposed to be almost worthless 15:40:54 but it's due who can explain 15:41:14 like, kilobats or something? 15:41:15 i guess the interface might be fine as long as you select the potion after casting 15:42:10 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:15 -!- n1000_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:42:40 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:44:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:45:49 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:47:06 -!- ketsa has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Pale Moon 20.1/20130518142809]] 15:49:09 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:23 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:53:00 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 16:00:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:06:02 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:17 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:08:10 -!- ketsa has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Pale Moon 20.1/20130518142809]] 16:08:36 -!- rwbarton_ has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:54 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:11:49 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:15:29 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:47 -!- rkd has quit [] 16:17:34 Merfolk mercenary has a great sword stuck in its ranged weapon slot by johnnyzero 16:18:21 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:23 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:53 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:30 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:40 using LRD through a grate takes MP and time and 'the wall shatters' but there's no damage/explosion. 16:21:49 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:21:58 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:22:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:10 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:23:15 -!- Vidiny has quit [Quit: [19:23] don't they have refill machines in ikea [19:24] bet those muricans took their vases to those straight away after paying] 16:24:04 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:40 LRD through grates does nothing but takes mp/time by rchandra 16:27:56 what is the chance for intoxication? 16:28:06 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 16:28:24 is it hd resist? 16:28:33 ??alistairs intoxication 16:28:34 alistairs intoxication[1/1]: L4 Transmutation-Poison spell. Has a (40 + power/3)% (max 73%) chance of confusing each natural, non-poison resistant monster in line of sight with greater than animal intelligence. Has a (60 - power/3)% chance of affecting you, even with rPois, if you do not have a source of clarity. Also drains 1-3 points of intelligence 5% of the time. 16:28:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:28:41 ahh 16:29:11 thanks 16:30:01 is spell power just 10*the number of # you have 16:30:14 no 16:30:15 ??spell power 16:30:24 spell power[1/5]: (Spellcasting/2 + 2*avg school skill) * INT/10 * (1.5 ^ enhancer count). Now halve the part over 50, halve the part over 100, halve the part over 150, and plain cap at 200. Negative enhancers use 0.5, not 0.66. 16:30:33 oh god 16:32:38 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 16:35:51 ??spell power[5] 16:35:51 spell power[5/5]: A ruby script for calculating spellpower: http://pastebin.com/f114699d1 Another for calculating enchantment success vs monster MR: http://pastebin.com/f70a79d8e 16:35:53 ??spell power[4] 16:35:54 spell power[4/5]: Got bars (#)? You have at least 0, 5, 10, 15, 25, 35, 50, 75, 100, 150 power. 16:35:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:36:03 LexAckson: ^ (slightly different in trunk) 16:36:45 !learn edit spell_power[4] s/$/ In 0.13, remove 5 from the list and add 200 at the end./ 16:36:46 spell power[4/5]: Got bars (#)? You have at least 0, 5, 10, 15, 25, 35, 50, 75, 100, 150 power. In 0.13, remove 5 from the list and add 200 at the end. 16:37:46 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:38:43 cool 16:39:09 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:39:34 so most damage spells scale roughly linearly with power until they cap? 16:40:47 <|amethyst> affinely 16:41:01 <|amethyst> they can do more than zero dice at zero power 16:41:15 ??spell damage 16:41:15 spell damage[1/1]: ?d(?*pow + ?) 16:41:36 heh 16:41:56 <|amethyst> shouldn't that be ?d(? + ?*pow/?) 16:42:06 <|amethyst> to match the order of dice_def 16:42:38 <|amethyst> maybe not :) 16:42:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:39 -!- pubby has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:46:17 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:46:57 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:48:17 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:51:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:29 -!- lukano has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:56 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-920-gd6e4736: Dump monster inventory in x&D 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 24+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d6e4736e389e 16:53:51 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:54:02 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:43 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 17:01:24 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:38 -!- gluop has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:03:36 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05:43 -!- Guest46550 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:05:57 <|amethyst> elliptic: I posted a note on 7084: should determine_affected_cells use LOS_NO_TRANS instead of LOS_SOLID ? 17:06:08 <|amethyst> %git 3b8d35f2 17:06:08 03elliptic * 0.10-a0-1790-g3b8d35f: Make LRD handle scrying and transparent walls correctly. 10(1 year, 7 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3b8d35f2133d 17:06:28 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10:23 |amethyst: is there any difference between the two other than grates? 17:10:27 -!- sym` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:11:15 <|amethyst> elliptic: hm 17:11:19 if you can target something on the other side of a grate then it should affect the cells 17:11:25 <|amethyst> elliptic: clouds 17:11:28 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:11:37 <|amethyst> elliptic: two opaque clouds would stop no_trans :( 17:11:52 <|amethyst> also opaque known mimics 17:12:18 <|amethyst> known mimics don't stop opacity_solid at all 17:12:57 I don't really know this code very well, but determine_affected_cells should use whatever LOS_* is used to determine eligibility of the square for targetting LRD in the first place (which should be the same as airstrike etc) 17:13:24 <|amethyst> hm 17:13:44 Apparently shadows are 'outlined in light'. This somehow seems wrong. 17:14:04 DracoOmega: why does it seem wrong 17:14:06 <|amethyst> yeah, I guess clouds stopping an explosion is no less realistic than a wall between you and the explosion stopping it 17:14:15 SamB: Shadows are naturally glowing? 17:15:01 the light is for contrast 17:15:08 otherwise how would there be an edge 17:17:10 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:32 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:43 Well, for example, this makes it impossible for them to be invisible 17:18:03 Because apparently a being made of darkness radiates light 17:18:52 shadow (06p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Dam: 505(drain strength) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(20), 12cold+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 45 | Sz: small | Int: animal. 17:18:52 %??shadow 17:19:10 hmm, is there a perm_enchant that's not being shown here? 17:19:32 It's a monster flag 17:19:41 Oh, it also means that shadows are extra unstealthy 17:20:02 It's kind of hilariously backwards, actually 17:21:09 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:50 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:33 -!- Blazinghand_ is now known as Blazinghand___ 17:22:40 wait, monsters have stealth? 17:23:00 maybe vs other monsters 17:23:31 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:23:43 monsters never wake up sleeping monsters just by being in sight afaik 17:24:14 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:24:14 if they did, it would make using allies (zombies or whatever) as a stabber quite bad 17:24:57 Well, there is a function for this 17:25:12 I thought allies as a stabber COULD wake things up, in fact 17:25:31 definitely zombies at least do not 17:25:44 <|amethyst> monster stealth is AFAICT only used for the chance of showing the location of an invisible monster 17:25:52 oh right, that thing 17:25:57 I remember when that was added 17:26:00 <|amethyst> so is irrelevant for glowing things 17:27:06 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:27:19 Still odd, I think 17:27:44 (Although I was in the process of giving shadows a little sprucing up, anyway :P) 17:28:03 probably glowing makes them easier to hit? 17:28:08 -!- rwbarton1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:19 I forget exactly how the backlit code handles this 17:29:50 I think that might be baked into their natural EV (like phase shift is for blink frogs) but am not sure 17:30:36 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:39 Nah, it looks like backlit() doesn't even check this 17:31:43 <|amethyst> hm 17:31:45 shadow fiends are also glowing, for the record 17:31:46 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:31:53 <|amethyst> the glowing is there pre-stone-soup 17:31:56 |amethyst: anyway I think probably LOS_NO_TRANS sounds right 17:31:57 st_: Haha, wow 17:31:59 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:32:01 <|amethyst> or, at least, pre-svn 17:32:06 I think all fiends are 17:32:19 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:32:38 Well, maybe it would make some more sense there, I guess? 17:33:22 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-921-g3f17ee7: Allow LRD to explode on the other side of grates (#7084) 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3f17ee72a625 17:34:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:55 <|amethyst> I guess the glowing is to explain how you can see them in the first place? 17:35:08 are you sure the glowing is pre SS? I'm sure I remember it coming into existance 17:35:13 <|amethyst> but 17:35:14 maybe that was just the display of it 17:36:13 -!- sym has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:20 <|amethyst> st_: they were listed as backlit in 0.1.1 anyway 17:36:38 <|amethyst> err, also in the initial svn revision which I assume is 0.1 17:36:52 <|amethyst> Sun Aug 13 01:56:14 2006 +0000 17:37:17 hm okay, I must be thinking of something else then 17:37:25 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I agree with changing them 17:37:30 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: their description says: 17:37:37 <|amethyst> A wisp of unliving shadow, drifting on the edge of vision. [...] 17:37:57 obviously they should be black on black 17:37:58 <|amethyst> it's hardly drifting on the edge of vision if it's freaking glowing 17:38:04 or at least dark grey on black 17:38:09 <|amethyst> I can understand "backlit" 17:38:44 <|amethyst> but since that is conflated with glowing now I say shadows should lose it 17:40:26 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:41:04 <|amethyst> OHHH 17:41:05 <|amethyst> I see 17:41:22 what do you see 17:41:34 <|amethyst> moment, let me find that commit again 17:41:48 <|amethyst> %git cdce1a6d 17:41:49 03dolorous * rcdce1a6d4370: Make monsters' glowing quality a class flag, instead of hardcoding a list of glowing monsters. 10(4 years, 7 months ago, 3 files, 26+ 50-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cdce1a6d4370 17:42:10 <|amethyst> they were on the hardcoded list not because they were glowing but because they were near-invisible 17:42:26 <|amethyst> it was the list of what can't be corona'd 17:43:23 <|amethyst> so, yes, it's a bug, but you'd need to ensure in some other way that they can't be corona'd 17:43:45 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:44:17 <|amethyst> or not :) 17:44:26 I don't think it's important to not be able to corona them 17:44:30 nice 4 year old bug 17:44:36 DracoOmega: clearly corona should instakill shadows 17:44:39 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:45:12 <|amethyst> yeah, if we've had glowing shadows for 4.5 years we can have magically glowing shadows 17:45:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:46:16 which are actually glowing for a REASON 17:46:31 <|amethyst> yeah 17:47:28 <|amethyst> what else on that list shouldn't glow? 17:47:36 <|amethyst> I guess the rest all make sense 17:47:47 <|amethyst> oh, shadow fiends 17:48:06 <|amethyst> it seems like their glowing is also a bug 17:48:21 <|amethyst> well 17:48:35 <|amethyst> okay, I guess I could see that, since as was pointed out the other fiends glow 17:50:17 Wait, orange rats glow? 17:50:56 Well, orange rats are weird anyway, I guess 17:51:03 <|amethyst> "glowing with unholy energies" 17:51:18 Yeah, I don't really know what's up with them in the first place 17:51:32 By the time a rat is ROARING, probably other things can be handwaved 17:51:49 <|amethyst> of the others in that commit 17:52:40 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:36 <|amethyst> shadow, shadow fiend, pit fiend, ice air elemental, spectral warrior, orange rat, spectral thing, eye of devastation are the questionable ones 17:53:39 <|amethyst> s/ice // 17:54:02 <|amethyst> maybe spatial vortex 17:54:03 I think phantasmal warriors and spectral things seem glowy 17:54:10 <|amethyst> everything else is on fire or explicitly glowing 17:54:32 Air is a little odd 17:54:59 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:04 <|amethyst> it makes sense not to be able to corona air 17:55:15 <|amethyst> kind of 17:55:25 <|amethyst> but they don't seem like they should glow 17:55:26 Well, they don't actually go invisible anyway, even though they keep disappearing 17:55:32 <|amethyst> yeah 17:55:42 <|amethyst> don't know how that was implemented then 17:55:58 Really 'can't be affected by corona' has to be the most marginal thing to get a flag, ever :P 17:56:01 <|amethyst> if they always submerged or if they once went invis like sky beasts 17:56:09 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: well, "glowing" is good 17:56:18 -!- croikle has quit [Quit: croikle] 17:56:19 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: that let it be used for other things 17:56:29 Yeah, I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense 17:56:47 But it has so little in-game effect that probably no one knows any of this stuff without actually looking it up 17:56:58 <|amethyst> corona could special case the things that shouldn't glow 17:56:59 Aside from the really obvious cases 17:57:02 -!- santiago has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:17 <|amethyst> that will be a much shorter list than the one dolorous removed 17:58:39 -!- sym has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:00:22 noobcanoe (L27 HuFE) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 2000) (Pan) 18:00:37 hi all, would anyone mind merging my one liner to fix an input bug? https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7013 18:00:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:01:01 noobcanoe (L27 HuFE) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 2000) (Pan) 18:01:28 noobcanoe (L27 HuFE) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 2000) (Pan) 18:01:56 !lm noobcanoe crash -log 18:01:57 4. noobcanoe, XL27 HuFE, T:235862 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/noobcanoe/crash-noobcanoe-20130525-230128.txt 18:01:58 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:35 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:56 noobcanoe (L27 HuFE) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 2000) (Pan) 18:03:58 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:00 <|amethyst> elliptic: let me see if I can get a better crash dump 18:08:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:11:14 <|amethyst> oh, I guess those other two are just the assert 18:12:55 <|amethyst> aha 18:13:00 <|amethyst> food acquirement in lichform 18:13:48 crash: acquirement request for food during lichform results in crash by noobcanoe 18:14:58 wait 18:15:07 can felids stab? 18:15:13 like, effectively? 18:16:17 i guess what i'm asking is, do cats have dagger hands? 18:16:24 oh man 18:16:25 they have long blade hands 18:16:28 tmut spell 18:16:32 dagger hands 18:16:43 so, decent stabbing then 18:16:50 <|amethyst> hhkb: I'm not sure... wouldn't that make it so we couldn't distinguish between ctrl-h and backspace? 18:16:51 like middling 18:17:37 <|amethyst> hhkb: I mean, in the case where ctrl-h generates the correct code 18:18:23 <|amethyst> okay, no crash in 0.13 18:19:40 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:20:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:20:12 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:22:57 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:55 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 18:26:08 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:21 -!- Implojin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:28:24 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:29:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:30:15 |amethyst: In the case where ctrl-h generates ascii code 8, then nothing changes - its identical to backspace as far as curses is concerned. It only handles the case where ctrl-h generates KEY_BACKSPACE (ascii 263 I think) which happens in xterm - and results in an unknown command error, currently 18:30:16 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:12 <|amethyst> hhkb: what's the exact xterm setting you're using? 18:34:35 <|amethyst> oh, nothing special? 18:35:03 |amethyst: just plain xterm 18:36:09 <|amethyst> I have a slightly older xterm but the same ncurses, and I don't see this behaviour 18:38:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:48 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:38:49 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 18:39:39 <|amethyst> hhkb: you said "with curses keypad enabled" in your commit message... what do you mean there? 18:40:17 |amethyst: with keypad mode enabled, 'keypad(stdscr, TRUE); 18:40:52 <|amethyst> still not seeing it 18:41:10 your xterm returns 8 on ctrl-h? interesting.. 18:41:24 <|amethyst> it's supposed to 18:41:44 <|amethyst> regardless of application keypad mode 18:41:49 <|amethyst> what OS is this? 18:41:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:42:29 archlinux 18:44:46 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 18:44:57 <|amethyst> hrm 18:45:16 <|amethyst> xterm 278 from debian here 18:45:25 st_: making vaults with the giant pile of upcoming monster changes will be great 18:45:55 and multilevel sprints! 18:47:41 it's really easy to enable them in a rudimentary fashion 18:47:49 well I think I have three sprints now that have been stuck as projects forever so playing around with ***** *********'s new ******* gimmick alone will be great 18:48:24 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:48:24 alongside ********** warriors and ***** ******** 18:48:28 that could probably refer to any of about 10 things 18:48:36 the second one is more specific 18:48:59 tenofswords: what do you think of bouldersprint being a separate thing to normal sprint, with multiple racetracks? 18:49:45 without having played with boulderform myself I'm not certain on the longevity and variety that can be pulled out from it 18:49:50 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:49:53 speaking of which i should fix that one^C^C^C two bugs in boulderform then people can test it 18:50:37 I am particularly glad thtat private conversations have lead to the ****** tier of ****** finally getting improvements 18:50:52 I've heard all about "someone" taking inspiration from meatsprint for new monsters 18:51:16 tenofswords: you should probably use SHUFFLE syntax to obfuscate your comments 18:51:37 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:51:50 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:52:41 |amethyst: my terminfo is setup to return KEY_BACKSPACE.. not sure if that's stock xterm or what. infocmp -f -L xterm |grep key_backspace // insert_line=\E[L, key_b2=\EOE, key_backspace=^H 18:52:56 I am kind of pleased that said inspiration is going to try its damn hardest to not be viciously annoying despite being inherently easily a concept that could be so 18:53:16 <|amethyst> hhkb: okay, that I can understand 18:54:03 <|amethyst> hhkb: not sure how that would lead to the situation you see though 18:54:06 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:55:43 <|amethyst> hhkb: okay, I can reproduce here with TERM=xtermc 18:56:42 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 18:57:54 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:19 I wonder if it was an xterm change... 18:58:39 <|amethyst> I think it's that your terminfo is ancient 18:58:55 <|amethyst> and describes a very old version of xterm where backspace defaulted to ctrl-h 18:59:01 <|amethyst> that confuses curses 18:59:34 -!- sym has quit [] 18:59:36 <|amethyst> because xterm is sending something different than terminfo says it should 19:01:09 -!- ragingrage has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:01:32 i'll check it, although I'd be surprised since I literally installed this machine a day ago 19:01:48 <|amethyst> hhkb: in bash, what do you get with ctrl-v ctrl-h and what do you get with ctrl-v backspace 19:02:26 ^H in both cases 19:02:40 <|amethyst> oh 19:02:53 <|amethyst> so it is configured correctly, but curses is mangling it 19:03:08 <|amethyst> well, not in the best way, but terminfo and xterm do agree 19:03:54 <|amethyst> hm 19:04:15 <|amethyst> so ncurses, in order to handle backspace, has to treat ctrl-h as a backspace 19:06:35 the ncurses manpage for wgetch seems to confirm what i'm seeing - it says it will return KEY_BACKSPACE for ^H if defined that way in terminfo 19:06:45 <|amethyst> yeah 19:07:11 -!- Porost_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:51 <|amethyst> moment, testing on a decent terminal :P 19:07:52 so i'd expect you to see the same thing if using ncurses 5.9, it's odd that you don't 19:08:05 <|amethyst> hhkb: my xterm was still generating ctrl-? 19:08:10 <|amethyst> hhkb: for backspace 19:08:20 <|amethyst> hhkb: and my default TERM was configured that way 19:08:44 <|amethyst> hhkb: if I changed my TERM to one with key_backspace=^H I did see the problem 19:09:10 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:09:22 ah, got it 19:09:56 <|amethyst> hhkb: if I apply your patch, it makes my backspace key do ctrl-h 19:11:06 <|amethyst> but macros can still distinguish between them so I guess it's not so terrible 19:11:42 <|amethyst> (normally backspace for me is "Unknown command" and ctrl-h swings left as usual) 19:12:02 oh, hah 19:12:16 <|amethyst> ell 19:12:18 stupid terminfos.. 19:12:18 <|amethyst> well 19:12:24 <|amethyst> I think we can check the terminfo 19:12:43 <|amethyst> since this is a workaround, only apply it when key_backspace is ^H and we need it 19:12:47 quayzong the Ticktocktomancer (L16 MiFi) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 403 failed on turn 30423. (D:16) 19:13:08 makes sense 19:14:27 thanks for taking a look! 19:16:10 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:20 <|amethyst> I don't know how to do the query though :) 19:16:28 <|amethyst> I know how to from the command line, but not in C 19:17:36 I have no idea either, hopefully there is a library call for it somewhere 19:18:37 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:18:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:32 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:26 -!- Blazinghand___ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:22:17 -!- us17 has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:24:18 -!- tswett is now known as beeeeeeeeees 19:25:41 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:30:43 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: BRB, DEAD] 19:34:07 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:37:43 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:38:58 -!- lazarenth has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:43:02 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:46:43 <|amethyst> hm 19:47:07 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:47:14 <|amethyst> this should be good at least on linux and OS X 19:48:13 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51:10 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:53:19 -!- sbanwart_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:54:47 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-922-ga797ddd: Fix ctrl-h on terminals where that is the same as backspace (hhkb) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a797ddd80afb 19:55:39 <|amethyst> maybe someone can verify that I haven't broken Mac and Windows builds :) 19:58:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:58:30 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:36 I thought OS X *was* Mac 20:03:53 <|amethyst> It should be good but I haven't tested 20:04:03 <|amethyst> and I think libunix.cc isn't used on Windows so 20:04:43 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:04:44 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:04:58 <|amethyst> (or if it is you have curses and therefore terminfo) 20:05:05 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:07:48 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:24 i think you can use key_backspace in term.h to determine if it's set to ^H.. if you still want me to look into that 20:13:59 <|amethyst> hm 20:14:13 <|amethyst> I wonder if that is more or less portable than calling tigetstr 20:15:07 don't second-guess 20:15:56 <|amethyst> SamB: it would simplify the code quite a bit :) 20:16:45 <|amethyst> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xcurses/terminfo.html#tag_002_001_003 says it's in X/Open 20:17:09 <|amethyst> (and http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xcurses/term.h.html that you #include for it) 20:17:35 <|amethyst> still, I'm not sure exactly what happens if the terminal doesn't define it 20:17:37 where is the documentation for this term.h you speak of 20:17:41 <|amethyst> whereas with tigetstr I do know 20:17:44 <|amethyst> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xcurses/term.h.html 20:17:53 I meant what manpage 20:18:00 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:21:47 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:25 * Grunt starts up a local forest_redux branch... 20:22:34 <|amethyst> SamB: terminfo_variables 20:22:53 -!- croikle has quit [Quit: croikle] 20:23:11 <|amethyst> hm 20:23:33 <|amethyst> nono, that's not the right manpage 20:24:10 grunt wait a day or two so you can use the blowback thing from dracoomega's stuff 20:24:32 I'm not going to make it public until I get that functionality, yes. 20:25:16 (also can we have spriggan enchanters instead of the enchantress) 20:29:01 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:02 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:33:12 -!- the_glow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:43 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:39:09 i want to do a unique outlaw band flavoured loosely around Robin Hood 20:39:46 ...wait a second grunt are you making spam 20:39:58 ??? 20:40:10 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:40:11 (SpAM) 20:40:28 No, but I am working on some other monster designs that would have an AM-like spell set. 20:40:53 bah, my attempt to connect together your off-hand references didn't work 20:41:19 AM has the wrong name anyway 20:41:34 "halfling hailstormer" 20:41:48 Halfling Madman 20:42:01 (after all, we need an excuse to bring back the Very Crazy title) 20:42:06 kobold ballista 20:43:35 hhkb: tigetstr() doesn't say anything about what was actually pressed 20:45:18 hhkb: TERM settings have little in common with actual terminal behaviour, as many terminals map into the same value... and even then, they can be configured differently 20:45:34 with extra fun if ssh is involved 20:45:49 tenofswords: HaHa 20:46:15 like needing to prod, say, N-a-p-k-i-n to install more terminfos? 20:46:46 just like cowa and ogmg 20:46:54 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:15 and debm and spdr 20:47:40 SamB: how would that help? 20:48:35 <|amethyst> hhkb: what kilobyte says, btw, explains why it was working for you on the servers 20:48:37 !lm * type=crash -log 20:48:38 4821. quayzong, XL16 MiFi, T:30423 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/quayzong/crash-quayzong-20130526-001246.txt 20:48:47 well, okay, it would probably be better to fix DGL to not crash if you use a terminal that's not in the DB ... 20:49:24 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:49:39 <|amethyst> hhkb: because their terminfo for 'xterm' say that backspace generates ctrl-?, so curses didn't mangle your ctrl-h 20:49:45 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:52 -!- alefury has quit [] 20:55:49 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:56:05 makes sense, i assumed they were simply forcing TERM=linux or something. 20:56:29 hhkb: no, they are running Debian is what they are doing 20:56:44 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:08 and debian patches ncurses's terminfo..neat 20:59:01 there's a Policy 20:59:17 http://patch-tracker.debian.org/patch/series/view/ncurses/5.9-10/02-debian-backspace.diff ;-) 20:59:20 about how backspace and delete are supposed to work 20:59:33 even if a terminal would look at terminfo, the database it has is those of the local system, likely to be different from that on a remote server 21:00:06 kilobyte: I think xterm actually does that for some things ... 21:00:09 <|amethyst> kilobyte: termcap let you put terminal definitions in an environment variable, which could be exported over telnet etc 21:00:33 <|amethyst> kilobyte: sad that terminfo doesn't... I guess because of the size of its definitions 21:00:34 -!- beeeeeeeeees is now known as tswett 21:00:40 pity about the size limitations 21:03:09 |amethyst: even then, it has no way to know what the behaviour of a terminal is, just what's in the terminfo database 21:03:50 kilobyte: if the terminal was sending it's terminfo along, that would be a clue ... 21:03:51 if TERM=xterm, is it xterm? or putty? or libvte (gnome-terminal, etc)? or konsole? 21:03:58 <|amethyst> kilobyte: right, but if you could put the entire settings in an environment variable, the terminals could set the environment variable before launcing the shell 21:04:18 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:21 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I mean TERM_CODES=kbs:^H,colors:8 etc 21:04:27 <|amethyst> kilobyte: like old $TERMCAP 21:05:20 <|amethyst> (but that would depend on forwarding that like TERM is fowarded) 21:05:35 then what if you reattach a screen (other than a not so reliable setting that makes screen try to convert things) 21:05:55 or, a serial console, with no way to pass env strings at all 21:05:59 <|amethyst> kilobyte: if screen doesn't convert things there's not much you can do 21:06:22 <|amethyst> and with a serial console you'd have to configure that in your getty, same as you have to do with TERM 21:06:44 kvm, lxc, qemu, etc, tend to pretend to be serial console 21:07:20 kilobyte: and reattaching screen works SO WELL now 21:07:25 well, does anyone remember to redefine that? 21:07:45 SamB: do you have any problems with screen? 21:08:11 does anyone use the serial console for much besides boot messaging? 21:08:15 -!- sym has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:28 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:08:30 kilobyte: well, I don't notice any super-dynamic features now 21:09:04 anyway screen DOES support termcap 21:10:14 SamB: physical serial console, not much. Virtual, most virtual machines. 21:10:47 yeah, but how can it change it when you reattach? 21:11:06 it can't 21:11:30 but it can't change TERM either 21:12:27 ok, so it can't change it from "xterm" to "xterm" 21:13:48 screen normally sets, say, TERM=screen-256color 21:14:00 or is that just how I've configured it ... 21:14:26 -!- purge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:29 <|amethyst> kilobyte: but what happens when you use the Linux terminal and TERM=xterm is wrong in several respects? 21:14:53 <|amethyst> I assume you are tasteful enough not to use rxvt 21:15:18 |amethyst: screen does implement a vt100 terminal emulator you know 21:15:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:15:37 |amethyst: then ncurses still work because over the years it seen this over and over and learned to accept various types of input 21:15:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:41 Hi, I am trying to find the optons file on my macbook. I saw the FAQ said it was in application data but I cannot find it! I tried spotlight as well and nothing.. any ideas? 21:15:45 what's distasteful about rxvt? 21:15:50 I already created a game and saved a char 21:16:14 I went finder > go > computer > library > application data 21:16:18 <|amethyst> kilobyte: true 21:16:20 rxvt follows standards far better than xterm does 21:16:23 not ~/.crawlrc 21:16:42 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I though rxvt generated codes that were terminated by non-letter characters? 21:17:21 Grunt: ran across a couple of old patches of yours #5814 and #5810 - do you still plan on doing anything with them? 21:17:26 -!- mumra_ is now known as mumra 21:17:27 <|amethyst> alleged CSI codes that is 21:17:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:59 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:18:36 Maybe #5814, but certainly not #5810. 21:19:16 <|amethyst> kilobyte: maybe I'm thinking of an ancient rxvt 21:19:23 |amethyst: doesn't any terminal do? 21:19:42 |amethyst: you need a state machine anyway 21:20:03 -!- purge_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:21:33 -!- Chozo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 21:22:13 -!- tenofswords has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:22:23 <|amethyst> kilobyte: looking at rxvt documentation it seems to stay in the @ to ~ range 21:22:30 <|amethyst> so I'm not sure what I was thinking of 21:24:42 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:02 <|amethyst> (mouse tracking uses weird sequences, but so does xterm and you have to explicitly request that anyway) 21:27:56 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:31:29 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:32:16 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I guess I was thinking of the ctrl-shift-fkey things, but those are legal so 21:32:27 -!- Dragon_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:33:07 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:09 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:35:16 -!- Guest81510 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:35:58 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:44 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:38:43 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:40:17 beh... crashing for a nap soon after 20, waking up around 4, this leads to shameful things like seeing dawn from the wrong side 21:40:28 seeing dawn after sleep, that's sick 21:42:41 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:43:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:43:24 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:43:32 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:16 I tested the ^H thing, looks like the breakage is entirely inside ncurses 21:44:46 kilobyte: hehehe 21:45:13 not about the breakage, but the dawn thing 21:45:54 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-923-g2560baa: Don't attempt to save after save file is deleted (Mantis #5878) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2560baa3b23b 21:48:03 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:50:08 -!- santiago__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:49 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:53:03 <|amethyst> kilobyte: yeah, ncurses sees that you generated the code for key_backspace (ctrl-h on hhkb's system) and turns it into KEY_BACKSPACE 21:53:44 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:54:13 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:52 kilobyte: i am generally worried whenever i see dawn, whichever side i've seen it from :P 21:55:01 -!- santiago__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:55:08 <|amethyst> kilobyte: the same way, on your system or mine, when you press backspace curses gives you KEY_BACKSPACE instead of 127 21:55:31 <|amethyst> s/way,/way that,/ 21:56:35 and what's worse, if it gets \e[3~ it fails to recognize it as backspace but passes through literally, as four separate characters 21:56:56 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:57:06 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:57:15 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 21:57:33 -!- Roarke has quit [Client Quit] 21:57:39 <|amethyst> kilobyte: that's usually kdch1, not backspace 21:57:45 -!- wheals is now known as wheals_ 21:57:57 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:59 <|amethyst> kilobyte: if ncurses did interpret it as backspace you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between backspace and delete on most terminals 21:58:09 -!- TheOverlord has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:58:16 -!- wheals_ is now known as wheals 21:58:24 er, indeed, sorry; pressed it wrong 21:58:26 -!- wheals is now known as wheals_ 21:58:35 <|amethyst> it is silly that curses doesn't have KEY_DELETE though 21:58:47 indeed 21:58:56 -!- wheals_ is now known as wheals 21:58:59 <|amethyst> I mean, it has "shifted cancel key" 21:59:25 <|amethyst> oh 21:59:28 <|amethyst> it does have KEY_DC 21:59:48 <|amethyst> hm 21:59:58 <|amethyst> I just tested and I do get KEY_DC for that 22:00:30 <|amethyst> (where terminfo has kdch1=\E[3~ ) 22:01:46 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:51 -!- Overlord is now known as TheOverlord 22:02:29 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:04:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:05:07 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:05:20 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:09 -!- xnavy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:40 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:11:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:13:38 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:45 -!- rossi has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:28 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:26:00 -!- homard has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:26:19 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-924-gcc10e91: Expand the kbs comment. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cc10e91b2a4c 22:26:19 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-925-g1b4683e: Fix a very unlikely race condition. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1b4683e88ba7 22:27:06 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:27:09 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 22:29:44 hey 22:29:54 -!- tigertrap has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:57 Bloax: meow? 22:29:58 whoever thought smoke demons spawning in the abyss was funny 22:30:08 and whoever thought that it'd be hilarious if they had sticky flame 22:30:10 yeah you 22:30:13 i don't like you 22:30:21 poor Linley... 22:30:25 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:30:36 -!- werewolf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:11 <|amethyst> Bloax: as kilobyte alludes to, smoke demons have been in the abyss forever 22:31:13 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:33 <|amethyst> and have had sticky flame forever 22:31:41 "Lose all scrolls forever" isn't really that hilarious. 22:31:44 -!- bigdumbman has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:31:44 -!- wariowadness is now known as whog 22:32:04 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:35:39 fr smite-targeted item destruction 22:38:30 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:38:37 -!- RZX_ is now known as RZX 22:39:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:40:14 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:25 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:41:29 Bug with autotravel. by WildSam 22:41:30 -!- randomizr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:42:56 <|amethyst> err 22:43:07 <|amethyst> I thought runed doors were supposed to stop autotravel? 22:43:29 <|amethyst> can someone who actually plays tiles confirm that those are in fact runed doors? 22:43:53 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:43:58 <|amethyst> oh 22:43:59 <|amethyst> I see 22:44:09 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:44:26 <|amethyst> it's not that it won't travel through it, but that it won't travel around it 22:44:45 BlastHardcheese: sure, but only for darts 22:45:41 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:46:13 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:46:55 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:10 |amethyst: that's a duplicate of 7025 probably 22:49:16 <|amethyst> ah, likely so 22:49:27 <|amethyst> I'll mark them as related since it's not certain they're the same 22:50:18 <|amethyst> this one was with travel as opposed to explore, but 22:50:51 <|amethyst> (but I should stop ending my sentences with conjunctions, or at least use an ellipsis when I do) 22:51:14 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 22:51:35 but, but, but 22:52:58 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:56:16 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:56:41 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 22:57:06 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:57:13 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 23:00:05 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:07:16 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:08:50 * Grunt watches Khufu Doroklohe himself as he does some monster battle testing... 23:09:28 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:10:34 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:52 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:45 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:01 does the vault rune now spawn in any quadrant? 23:17:08 yes 23:17:18 that bug was fixed at some point 23:17:22 <|amethyst> well 23:17:30 <|amethyst> it still won't spawn in the shopping quadrant 23:17:36 haha 23:17:38 cool 23:17:39 shopping quadrant? 23:17:49 it can certainly spawn in a quadrant containing shops... 23:17:56 which quadrant is that ... 23:18:06 <|amethyst> maybe I'm confused 23:20:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:23:32 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:42 <|amethyst> I see, that one has an NSUBST 23:25:03 <|amethyst> I wonder what jeanjacques was talking about earlier 23:27:11 <|amethyst> oh, I had misread... he said "never *there* in that shop quadrant" (emphasis added) 23:27:41 I'm still confused, which quadrant are we talking about? 23:27:50 there are multiple quadrants with shops :) 23:31:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:02 FR: a "choking fishy breath" mutation for felids 23:32:11 kitteh ate something outside, and it's not pretty... 23:32:17 Gained randomly and temporarily by eating seafood? 23:32:53 you mean, raw kraken meat? 23:33:13 Any kind of fish will do :b 23:33:22 Maybe it's more likely with higher HD seafood. 23:33:25 especially for orcs/ogres/trolls, rotting one 23:33:48 You exhale a cloud of noxious fumes. The orc chokes on the stench! The orc appears confused. 23:34:46 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:35:04 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:54 <|amethyst> elliptic: not the one I thought anyway (I had been thinking vaults_end_dpeg_shops2 but apparently they were talking about _shops1 23:36:06 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:15 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 23:36:33 ) 23:36:39 <|amethyst> thank you 23:36:53 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:36:59 ah, I see, it's never in the center in _shops1 23:37:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:06 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:39:07 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 23:40:37 -!- werewolf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:42:01 do shadow dragons count as animals for pacification? 23:42:23 LexAckson: natural holiness 23:43:34 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:43:42 <|amethyst> pacify goes by mons_intel doesn't it? 23:44:08 <|amethyst> oh, right, holiness changes the divisor 23:44:35 <|amethyst> but they're unintelligent and natural, so they have the second-best pacifiability (after stupid holies) 23:46:52 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:47:38 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:48:05 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:48:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:53:25 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:53:57 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:54:00 -!- Guest81510 is now known as magicpoints 23:54:50 why do vampire mosquitos count as undead? Sucking blood is a pretty natural thing for them to do. 23:55:16 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:55:49 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:01 The description reads, "A mosquito that has fed upon tainted blood[...]" 23:57:23 (Is there a mechanic-oriented justification? Good question.) 23:58:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]