00:03:22 pointless summon elemental message by rchandra 00:04:44 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:05:47 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:06:27 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-800-g2685a18 (34) 00:06:58 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:07:09 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12.1-16-g33cc8c2 (34) 00:07:18 -!- whig has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 00:13:29 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-800-g2685a18 (34) 00:16:29 You know the okawaru arena vault? Isn't it supposed to only allow you one of the weapons? 00:20:59 are you sure that's not what the skill system is for? 00:22:27 I only just understood your question; supposedly the vault destroys one item once you pick up another, and it did say to "choose a reward." 00:23:09 I think I managed to break it with all my excluding, de-excluding, opening and closing the door, and...it didn't trigger the first time I went it (perhaps because I couldn't see one of the orcs), but it did when I came back later. Then I waited a while, blinked to get past my own flame, ate an orc, then picked up one, then picked up the other. 00:23:13 oh, that's after 00:23:36 * SamB hasn't gone very far in 00:23:39 So it isn't supposed to do something with lava like the lua implies? 00:23:50 I didn't read it 00:23:58 I'm just randomly guessing 00:24:27 also I'm sick so don't expect my best thinking ;-) 00:24:47 I'll look at it again to figure out if that part is blatantly missing, and was just partially edited out instead of entirely. 00:25:07 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:54 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:44 It looks like there's a function just for burning the loot you don't pick, based on where you're standing, but I'm not good enough with lua to detangle what's going wrong. 00:27:21 that doesn't sound apport-proof anyway 00:32:09 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:32:20 SamB: After more reading, I think it was probably intended to be, if 'tloot_grab:add_triggerer' with 'type="item_moved",' does what I think it does. 00:32:31 ah 00:32:44 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:38:55 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:41:52 -!- DarthXaos has quit [] 00:45:30 -!- Ryak has quit [Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!] 00:45:50 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-800-g2685a18 00:54:19 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:55:02 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05:36 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:09 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:10 -!- Gilihad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:09:56 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 01:20:19 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:02 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:24:35 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:24:39 -!- Parak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:46 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:26:44 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:30:43 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:13 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:39:37 -!- Felyza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:49 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 01:41:04 Nivim: okawaru arena is known to be hellishly buggy. are you looking at it in trunk, i had a feeling it even got removed? if it hasn't i should probably try to fix it at some point if no-one else does 01:43:20 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:45:49 -!- kawatan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:51:57 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:49 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 01:55:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:55:45 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:08 -!- Turambar has quit [Client Quit] 02:09:30 -!- Turambar has quit [Client Quit] 02:13:38 -!- regionalcat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:20:19 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:25:00 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:32 mumra: elliptic: If I posted on Mantis is patch for my "no respawn" variant, think it'd be something you'd be interested in trying out? I'm loving my variant; I believe it's more "fair" to the player. 02:27:48 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:01 as someone pointed out regarding death curses and stuff, being "fair" to the player isn't necessarily an aim ;) 02:30:44 what are the advantages (in terms of gameplay?) 02:38:30 that's something I'd rather you two decide; you both know alot more about the game then me 02:39:30 I'm just content with the fact that monsters don't just spawn randomly; it's a game-changer for me personally 02:41:23 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:46 (apart from Hell/Zig/Abyss etc, in these "end-game" zones aswell as special branches "sewer,wizard lab, etc" the spawning is exactly the same as /trunk) 02:42:42 mumra: in which way are death curses considered unfair? 02:43:15 rchandra: you misunderstand, read the backlog ;) 02:43:48 it's not that they're unfair per se, but the order in which they're processed matters heavily in terms of e.g. makhleb healing and whether you live or die 02:43:51 e.g. firestorming tomb 02:43:59 the thing is the order is currently undefined 02:44:12 i suggested a "fair" way to process things 02:44:23 I think random is better than fair there 02:44:27 exactly 02:44:34 since fair means the player should learn the order 02:44:51 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:45:19 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:45:29 -!- Borek is now known as Mandevil 02:45:56 my log doesn't show "makhleb" or "death c" other than this conversation, so I'll be satisfied with that summary 02:46:14 http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/%23%23crawl-dev-20130519.log 02:46:17 13:03:13 02:47:23 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:48:03 I don't have much an opinion on it, since the Crypt/Tomb is an optional branch; I'm fine with things getting ridiculous in the mid-to-end game. Which is why I left Hell/Pan/Zig/etc unchanged. 02:48:23 well this is annoying, my projectile rewrite (orbs/boulders) is actually *more* code than before 02:48:47 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:48:52 the funny part about that is that Pan, Tomb, etc are probably a lot easier than the early game is much of the time... 02:49:25 although it's infinitely more understandable and has better potential for reuse for different movement types 02:49:31 For a high AC fighter warshipping TSO, sure. 02:49:37 if someone in lichform 02:49:41 s/if/or 02:49:42 or that 02:49:49 I'm not even sure high Ac fighter of TSO is one of the stronger extended builds 02:49:58 It's certainly good 02:50:06 It's the build I see most commonly in webtiles. 02:50:13 or a berserker (well, no. berserker early game is really easy) 02:50:20 you shouldn't really take that as an indicator of what's best 02:50:27 I know, just saying though. 02:50:38 lichform has helped me in tomb once and killed me in tomb once 02:50:46 i tried Tomb with my very strong DrWz of Ash and Tomb:1/2 were excruciating even drawing 1 mummy at a time 02:51:05 i gave up on the idea of Tomb:3 and came back later in lichform 02:51:29 Tomb is kind of funny just because it's very irritating and difficult but many things exist that make it significantly easier 02:52:06 Necromutation being one of those, of course 02:53:41 -!- Coffeemonster has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:54:41 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 03:01:46 -!- Sealer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:07 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:13:31 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:25 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:20:45 wow ... why is the monster class destructor being called once during the title screen? 03:20:54 (i have a funny feeling this will be connected to map validation) 03:22:01 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 03:27:42 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:53 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:35:16 -!- hiba has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:44 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:41:46 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:42:07 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:43:28 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:22 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:47:50 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:48:06 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 03:50:29 "The kobold dissipates." 03:50:46 i have badly misjudged something fundamental about the way monsters work here 03:52:57 -!- hiba has quit [] 03:53:22 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:55:47 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:07 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:02:26 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:13 -!- madjake has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:11:31 -!- SomeoneAwful has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:19:39 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:25:09 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:44 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:30:36 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:49 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:31:11 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 04:33:12 visual studio has an awesome profiler 04:33:34 according to this output of spending a while walking around a kobold, it spent 20% of the time inside mons_is_safe 04:33:48 most of which time was spent in pathfinding code 04:33:56 (the kobold was asleep) 04:34:11 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:34:24 hang on, i tell a lie; there was some other stuff going on 04:34:52 but yeah, pathfinding seems to be a lot of cycles; that and looking up enchantments, and hashtables 04:34:56 melee code is a close runner up 04:35:45 (of course screen updates take up a lot of time since this is tiles but that's at least slightly more expected) 04:39:54 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:41:42 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:54 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:21 If most of the time wasn't spent in A* or Brasenham, I'd be worried about the quality of the code. :P 04:51:34 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:52:13 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:58:47 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:30 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:00 -!- rms is now known as Guest29453 05:20:55 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:23:29 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:14 -!- Guest29453 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:37:32 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:40:02 -!- Implojin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:53:18 -!- tgcid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:22 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 06:08:21 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:11:12 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:15:37 -!- Alumjha has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:17:26 <|amethyst> !tell rax I updated the /etc/init.d/webtiles script to use kill -ABRT instead of plain kill, so it should work now 06:17:27 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rax know. 06:18:12 <|amethyst> !tell rax (if not, find the "python ./server.py" process and kill -ABRT it, escalating to kill -KILL if that doesn't work 06:18:13 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rax know. 06:19:14 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:19:28 <|amethyst> !tell edlothiol webtiles shutdown (on SIGTERM) seems to take forever, as though it were closing connections one-by-one and some of them are timing out... though I'm not sure I've ever seen it actually finish 06:19:29 |amethyst: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 06:19:56 <|amethyst> !tell edlothiol I've been having to kill -ABRT it 06:19:56 |amethyst: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 06:24:31 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:27:25 -!- Soyweiser_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:30:42 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 06:37:30 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:50:31 PilchardFriendly the Chucker (L8 MiBe) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded_keys_left) in 'macro.cc' at line 549 failed on turn 6886. (D:6) 06:53:22 -!- Kuroneko_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:58:52 -!- C7ty1 has quit [] 07:01:50 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:49 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:14:19 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:21:51 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:51 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:31 -!- Parak has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:25:07 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:30:51 <|amethyst> !lm PilchardFriendly crash -log 07:30:52 1. PilchardFriendly, XL8 MiBe, T:6886 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/PilchardFriendly/crash-PilchardFriendly-20130520-115029.txt 07:30:53 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:31 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:45 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:40:42 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:23 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:29 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:47:47 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:50:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:50:03 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 07:52:10 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:57:38 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:33 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Client Quit] 08:04:25 <|amethyst> should trees be able to shop? 08:06:19 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:06:44 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:36 why not? 08:07:44 are pigs able to shop? 08:07:51 <|amethyst> pigs are able to move 08:08:07 well, if youre in the shop, youre in the shop? 08:08:28 <|amethyst> I figured being on the square meant standing outside the shop 08:08:58 i figured not being able to wield things would be just as problematic as not being able to move 08:09:38 mostly i think preventing trees from shopping would be super pointless 08:10:04 <|amethyst> The main reason I ask is that up_stairs does the tree check before the shop check as though it were trying to prevent it, but it only gets that far in rare circumstances 08:10:34 <|amethyst> usually shopping is handled by _go_upstairs or _go_downstairs 08:12:21 * xFleury begins to think maybe some monsters shouldn't spawn on Abyss:1 (bone dragon what about while in a net? 08:18:23 <|amethyst> currently you can use > but not < to enter a shop while in a net 08:19:58 -!- Celsitudo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:01 If you were smart enough to get netted on a shop tile then why not still be able to enter it. 08:26:48 <|amethyst> I guess the net is big enough to cover both you and the shop? 08:27:03 <|amethyst> or maybe you're standing in front of the drive-through window 08:28:35 Or maybe you're just screaming to the shopkeeper about what you want. 08:31:36 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:22 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:19 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:37 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-801-g1283271: Don't allow summoning elementals from monsters or oneself (#7062). 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 29+ 29-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=12832719bd09 08:46:03 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:42 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 08:52:29 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:53:38 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 08:55:43 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 08:57:41 -!- tureba has quit [Client Quit] 09:01:00 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:25 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:05:48 -!- Zermako has quit [] 09:05:55 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:06:28 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 09:07:28 -!- xxx is now known as Guest28879 09:18:50 xFleury: bone dragon of all things? it's a speed 10 melee monster that doesn't punish running away at all... 09:20:41 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:24:59 a bone dragon makes dire elephants look like a joke 09:25:09 bone dragons make golden dragons look weak 09:25:14 They got buffed to speed 10? 09:25:26 xFleury: tip: run away from things in the abyss 09:25:40 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:25:58 that goes without saying, but not always an option 09:28:32 <|amethyst> Bloax: yes, with HP cut 09:28:39 <|amethyst> %git :/uff bone dr 09:28:51 03|amethyst * 0.12-a0-372-gb3dc6df: Buff bone dragons. 10(9 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b3dc6df251f6 09:28:51 <|amethyst> %git :/erf bone dr 09:28:51 03kilobyte * 0.12-a0-373-g3f5249c: Nerf bone dragons. 10(9 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3f5249c9f4b1 09:29:45 btw, when did bone dragons become non-mindless? 09:29:56 I guess I can git blame 09:32:17 hm, maybe they always were 09:33:32 <|amethyst> %git eaa5aba 09:33:32 03dolorous * reaa5abaa3b42: Give flayed ghosts I_NORMAL intelligence instead of I_PLANT, to match most of the other ghosts, and give skeletal dragons I_ANIMAL intelligence instead of I_PLANT, to both match other dragons and differentiate them more from dragon skeletons. 10(4 years, 7 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eaa5abaa3b42 09:33:40 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:35:04 haha "differentiate them more from dragon skeletons" 09:35:11 since that is probably why I was confused about them 09:35:15 -!- fungee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:35:20 as that commit was before I started playing 09:36:22 mumra: that buggy oka arena vault does still exist in trunk, yeah, although i'm not convinced that it should 09:37:12 locking you in a room with 4 orc warriors is a little absurd for a d:4 overflow altar, even ignoring all the brokenness 09:37:33 |amethyst: Well then. 09:37:41 Guess we're all fucked then. 09:38:55 Because now it's a sturdier golden dragon that doesn't have breath and has 10 less max damage. 09:39:11 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:39:12 it's literally been like that for 9 months 09:39:26 also "gold dragon without the breath" isn't a very scary description... 09:40:06 I've never found either to be particularly dangerous. 09:40:20 But bone dragons were probably the nastiest of the two back in the day for me. 09:40:33 Because they were stupendously sturdy. :x 09:40:34 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:22 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:29 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:48 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 10:10:30 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:04 -!- Guest28879 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:12:32 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:19:01 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:14 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:25:23 -!- Krag has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:21 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:33:27 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:34:30 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:34:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:35:56 Random Teleport in lava Pit (Abyss) by Dorian 10:39:06 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:31 oh dear 10:39:45 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 10:41:02 Seriously? 10:41:06 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:15 How does that keep happening? 10:41:35 I wanted to hope that they were somehow playing a really old version, but no 10:42:34 -!- Sonderblade has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 10:44:59 yeah, no idea :/ 10:46:19 I stared at the abyss morphing code for a while before bh supposedly fixed this bug last time, and could barely make sense of how it worked 10:46:23 Apparently I was not the only one 10:47:27 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 10:47:45 i looked at it a couple of times and was convinced that it forced the floor beneath you to be floor whenever it shifted, even ages ago :P 10:47:48 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:14 Yeah, that is what it looked like 10:48:28 But clearly not 10:48:32 yeah :( 10:48:41 Well, or something else is intervening at some point somehow, but who the hell knows what? 10:48:59 Actually, it would probably be nice if the Abyss map code was structured in a more readable way, or at least documented better 10:49:07 So that more than just bh could do something with it >.> 10:51:00 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:26 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:32 <|amethyst> /away stuff 10:53:35 <|amethyst> doh 10:55:45 !lg -tv kmangladiator 10:55:46 No keyword 'kmangladiator' 10:56:56 !lg kmangladiator -tv 10:56:56 33. KManGladiator, XL2 MuIE, T:1020 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 10:57:04 bah 10:58:35 !tv kmangladiator 10:58:36 33. KManGladiator, XL2 MuIE, T:1020 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 11:03:20 !lm kmangladiator 11:03:21 193. [2013-05-20 12:27:22] KManGladiator the Gelid (L15 MuIE) entered a Bazaar on turn 35651. (Shoals:3) 11:03:25 !lm kmangladiator -tv 11:03:26 193. KManGladiator, XL15 MuIE, T:35651 (milestone) requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 11:03:40 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:14 -!- inpho has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:09:14 -!- inpho_ is now known as inpho 11:10:29 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:12:13 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:59 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:36 -!- kmangladiator has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:25:14 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:32 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-802-g33b1ab2: List disintegration vulnerability with other resists/vulnerabilities 10(85 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=33b1ab25b02e 11:31:32 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-803-ge882f2b: Remove skeletal warrior spells 10(71 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e882f2b7316e 11:31:32 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-804-g896415e: Fix dancing weapon corrosion messages 10(34 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=896415e91051 11:31:32 03CommanderC 07* 0.13-a0-805-g79c08ab: Let vampiric drain heal your last hit point 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=79c08abdc244 11:33:10 I was going to ask whether removing their spellcaster flag messes up ancient champions or whether vault defines are smart enough to get around that, but it'll be a moot point soon enough anyway, I guess :P 11:34:43 -!- xFleury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 11:41:41 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:52 did the ancient champion vault get removed, or just remade? 11:42:48 i hope the champions are just no longer a vault define 11:43:17 Yes 11:43:26 I am promoting them to normal monsters with my Crypt changes 11:43:35 (And some will actually spawn there) 11:43:42 they still work, they have an actual_spells tag in the vault definitions 11:43:47 Ah, okay 11:45:34 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:59 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:48:25 -!- C7ty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:50:55 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:51:47 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 11:56:51 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-806-gec4163e: Fix now-inaccurate comment. 10(22 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ec4163e6ee0f 11:58:08 Like clockwork 11:58:56 * SamB wonders why felids can't wear collars 11:59:12 dolorous is like a roomba 11:59:18 They should be able to wear hats, since it would be adorable :P 11:59:20 * SamB realizes that that's almost like amulets ... 11:59:29 DracoOmega: yeah, I thought of that too 11:59:39 I liked it when spider form could wear a hat 11:59:43 (Okay, mostly just for the mental image) 11:59:48 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:14 Though I didn't realize it could until I was very confused how shifting into spider to save my gear from corrosion managed not to save my gear from corrosion 12:01:24 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:39 -!- Guest81510 is now known as magicpoints 12:02:16 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:02:58 -!- santiago_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:35 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:42 -!- santiago_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:41 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:04:54 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.1-18-g090c645 12:08:09 * SamB wishes crawl had "C-h k" so he could look up the command for a key 12:10:35 * SamB digs up the defaults in cmd-keys.h again -- he never remembers where exactly they are ... 12:11:32 any idea what's with the -1001, etc. in there? 12:12:45 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1-rc1] 12:13:32 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:19:47 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:20:08 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-806-gec4163e (34) 12:20:13 so would it be totally silly for mut colors to be used on the % screen? 12:24:28 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 12:25:25 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:24 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:30:38 * SamB kinda thinks it might be useful if the mutation screen also showed the short names ... 12:34:03 hmm, _status_mut_abilities() could really use refactoring 12:38:30 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:33 legoman727 (L24 HOPr) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 599: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Vaults:5) 12:40:16 hmm 12:40:16 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:40:45 -!- inpho has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:08 "You stop healing."}, 12:41:11 but 12:41:18 "Your rate of healing increases."}, 12:41:36 it seems like those two messages don't really say the same thing in reverse 12:41:57 Well, your rate going from 0 to something larger than 0 is still an increase 12:42:01 presumably yes that 12:42:01 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:15 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:42:16 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:44:30 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:30 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 12:44:30 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:26 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-807-g3bf0120: Webtiles: Try to make sure the process ends. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3bf0120f3cc7 12:54:00 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:03:08 -!- sildraith has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:07:41 03SamB 07* 0.13-a0-808-g00d0cd1: Update comments for field dolorous added to mutation-data.h ... 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=00d0cd1faced 13:08:44 Xom has smiled upon me today 13:08:53 he gave me some really sweet muts 13:09:02 so I can has ranged felid 13:11:32 see, feck is fun 13:11:37 hah 13:12:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:13:15 can I dodge OOD? 13:13:40 it's possible but tricky 13:14:30 oh good, it didn't kill me 13:14:35 pretty easy in most cases, but this heavily depends on terrain 13:14:54 and I'm afraid it's quite spoily 13:15:36 that being the case, the game should let you run a simulation first 13:16:31 a fun thing is that you can get this spoilage merely by thinking about it: it's all about turn radius 13:17:55 MarvinPA_: I'm afraid 33b1ab25 is wrong: less than half of statue types are vulnerable to disintegration, and your commit lists them all as such 13:18:34 are you sure? it looks right to me 13:19:01 Wucad Mu and plain renameable "statue" for xample 13:19:09 s/ x/ ex/ 13:19:21 Wucad Mu is vuln to disint isn't it 13:19:58 tis 13:20:01 wucad mu is an ocs and is correctly marked as vulnerable 13:20:23 plain statues are correctly not marked as vulnerable 13:20:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:43 kilobyte: are you saying he's added redundancy? 13:20:47 unknown monster: "wucad mu" 13:20:47 %??wucad mu 13:20:53 statue (158) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Dam: 20 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, master archer | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 561 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 13:20:53 %??statue 13:21:31 I guess Cheibriados didn't rebuild yet 13:21:59 ocs and silver statues are the only statues that are instakilled by disint 13:22:04 or was vulnerable meaning "not resistant" 13:22:21 and they are the only statues that get disint vulnerability in their description 13:22:32 (both before and after the commit) 13:22:33 orange crystal statue (048) | Spd: 6 | HD: 10 | HP: 160 | AC/EV: 20/1 | 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 150 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 13:22:33 %??orange crystal statue 13:22:58 @??statue of wucad mu 13:22:58 Statue of Wucad Mu (048) | Spd: 6 | HD: 20 | HP: 300 | AC/EV: 20/1 | 11non-living, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 300 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 13:23:16 maybe Henzell/Chei need changes? 13:23:43 SamB: you omitted the prefix 13:23:47 <|amethyst> even if it were rebuilt, yes, it would need changes 13:23:54 henzell and chei have never known about disint vulnerability, that is an entirely separate thing 13:24:02 <|amethyst> I still don't get the name "mons_is_statue" 13:24:02 kilobyte: I gathered why wucad mu didn't work, yes 13:24:14 I meant to show the vuln/resist/whatever 13:24:37 well henzell has i guess but whatever 13:24:42 where are the changes needed? 13:25:13 <|amethyst> monster would have to call mons_is_statue 13:25:36 hmm? 13:25:37 that function's name is pretty misleading 13:26:28 <|amethyst> yeah, I'd rather it be renamed before adding it to monster 13:26:38 my thoughts exactly 13:26:42 mons_is_statue(mc, false) stands for "is it a non-healing always awake statue?" (so no renameables or Roxanne), mons_is_statue(mc, true) stands for "special-cased by disint" 13:26:47 <|amethyst> "statue" monsters don't resist petrification? 13:26:55 heh 13:27:06 <|amethyst> only is_statue() ones 13:29:18 why don't we want floor mimics again? 13:29:57 planewalker doesn't seem to be a good title for someone who's skilled at translocations 13:29:58 or ceiling, so you have both D&D species 13:30:08 D&D actually has those 13:30:09 translocations all happen within one plane 13:30:13 (trapper and lurker above) 13:30:14 ? 13:30:17 and summonings are between planes 13:30:28 or am I wrong? 13:30:50 <|amethyst> myrmidette: that's why it's Plane Walker instead of Planeswalker :) 13:31:01 <|amethyst> okay, maybe not the best justification... 13:31:05 isn't everyone a planewalker 13:31:09 except naga 13:31:15 and maybe djinn 13:31:17 <|amethyst> and octopode 13:31:20 Hi. I'm trying to edit my macro.txt on cszo for 0.12, but when I enter the main 0.12 menu and hit 'm' nothing happens. Hitting 'o' for the .rc file and 'v' for the change log seem to work just fine as does 'P' to play. Is this a known issue? Should I report it on Mantis? 13:31:24 * kilobyte ponders the Swamp getting tapped. 13:31:28 I thought octopode did walk 13:32:07 no, they sort of slither 13:32:11 iirc 13:32:22 Nevermind, I didn't realize I had to edit in game first to create the macro file. 13:32:22 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:32:44 SamB, djinn are a playable race? 13:32:47 CKyle: probably that's a bug in something ... 13:32:48 <|amethyst> CKyle: oh, right, ee doesn't work on empty files 13:32:49 I never knew 13:32:53 <|amethyst> s/empty/missing/ 13:32:55 <|amethyst> or something 13:33:01 Plane Slider, Plane Glider (tengu but not black drac), Plane Wriggler, Plane Floater 13:33:15 <|amethyst> oh, the problem is empty files 13:33:21 needz moar touch(1) 13:33:24 oh? 13:33:28 floater? 13:33:31 who's the floater? 13:33:34 myrmidette: on a branch but not in trunk 13:33:37 <|amethyst> SamB: I guess needs echo > 13:33:37 |amethyst: empty files, really? 13:33:41 Yes. I thought that editing in game would only affect macros for that one game. Sort of like auto-pickup settings. 13:33:42 <|amethyst> SamB: yup 13:33:46 <|amethyst> apparently 13:33:49 kilobyte, which one? 13:33:51 that sounds like a bug in the editor 13:33:55 Slider: naga, Glider: tengu, Wriggler: seafood, Floater: legless doods 13:34:09 <|amethyst> SamB: segfault 13:34:35 er, legless tentacless tailless 13:35:05 kilobyte, which branch has djinn? 13:35:07 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:51 myrmidette: "djinn" :) 13:35:57 so if we make interlevel teleport a thing can we change it to Planeswalker 13:36:10 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:13 did it use to be a thing? 13:36:30 yes 13:37:03 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:43:41 <|amethyst> okay, zero-byte editing fixed 13:44:28 <|amethyst> on CSZO 13:45:48 Sweet. I didn't even realize there was a bug. 13:46:08 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:47:37 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:50 ??magical condensation 13:47:50 I don't have a page labeled magical_condensation in my learndb. 13:48:11 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 13:48:18 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:37 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:50:11 <|amethyst> !tell napkin a patch for ee in our dgamelaunch fork: http://dobrazupa.org/0001-ee-don-t-crash-when-editing-zero-byte-files.patch 13:50:12 |amethyst: OK, I'll let napkin know. 13:50:43 <|amethyst> !tell napkin I think CDO manages to avoid creating zero-byte files, but CAO and CSZO have an empty macros file by default 13:50:44 |amethyst: OK, I'll let napkin know. 13:51:10 cool 13:51:10 Napkin: You have 11 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:51:56 <|amethyst> CKyle: thanks a bunch 13:53:09 <|amethyst> Napkin: paxed says we really should upgrade, but I don't know much about our patches and haven't had time to look into it 13:53:24 too much work ;) 13:53:41 <|amethyst> certainly that's not the only crash in ee and virus 13:53:54 <|amethyst> almost certainly one of those crashes is exploitable 13:54:10 i don't think paxed's patches do much about ee or virus 13:54:21 <|amethyst> hm 13:54:44 <|amethyst> I'd be inclined to use rvim if it didn't have a big "don't use this for security" warning 13:55:25 too many features 13:55:30 <|amethyst> yeah 13:55:37 The blast of lightning engulfs you! You resist. The ogre looks more experienced. You kill the ironheart preserver! 13:55:52 i was also looking for a simple editor once 13:55:52 is the ogre getting experience if the preserver takes hits for it? 13:56:05 then compiled ee & virus separately 13:57:10 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:58:17 rchandra: was the ogre confused/etc at any point before? 13:58:33 kilobyte: no. it may have been distracted by ball lightning? 13:58:58 I mean, if it damaged something that just died. 13:59:17 I cast CBL and attacked. can't see any reason the ogre would have attacked something 14:00:38 -!- notmadreisz has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:46 ok, then it might be an actual bug 14:02:02 I'll mantis it then, thanks 14:02:18 ironheart preserver code has a lot of possible interactions 14:02:48 <|amethyst> oh 14:02:51 and is the reason my shotgun-targetted spells are not a thing yet :p 14:03:58 -!- lainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:07:25 why is TSO listed as both a winning and remaining god for my clan? 14:07:27 http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.12/clans/walkerboh.html 14:07:54 upper/lower case problem? 14:08:23 preservers may give experience to those they protect by rchandra 14:09:11 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 14:10:07 <|amethyst> "The ogre hits your ball lightning with a giant club." 14:10:10 hmm, didn't quite make it to L9 :-( 14:10:35 ...oh. didn't think of that, since I thought they were summons 14:10:44 sorry :( 14:11:24 <|amethyst> yeah, you got the XP for the preserver: You kill the ironheart preserver! 14:11:29 <|amethyst> Makhleb accepts your kill. 14:11:47 yeah, I was thinking it was split 14:13:43 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:15:03 ??forest 14:15:04 forest[1/2]: Currently D:19-26 whole level vault mock up of the forest branch. Lots of trees and spriggans. Ruled by the Enchantress. Watch out for druids, berserkers, defenders, and her (the first can use {awaken forest}, the last two have silly EV and get distortion weapons a lot). 14:16:34 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 14:17:53 <|amethyst> rchandra: a dump shows three ball lightnings killed by enemies and three killed by allies (which might include self-explosions) 14:19:17 thanks for looking into it 14:19:47 <|amethyst> thanks for bringing it up, it could well have been a bug and happenned not to be this time 14:20:13 <|amethyst> s/and/and just/ 14:26:38 rast_: thanks, will fix... it's because crawl keeps changing what capitalization it uses 14:28:47 kilobyte: What about injury bond interferes with potential shotgun spells, anyway? I mean, the damage shifted to the preserver is done as a final effect anyway 14:34:03 -!- G-Flax has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:13 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:34:26 I'm curious about something 14:34:51 what does crawl do when a tile tries to have the same background and foreground color? 14:35:16 <|amethyst> SamB: it would be nice if there were a way to disable the starting ammo autopickup; since it's implemented with the force_autopickup array it overrides everything you can set in the rc 14:35:28 |amethyst: hmm 14:35:47 -!- Chozo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 14:36:20 G-Flax: I seem to vaguely remember this just turning the foreground color black if it's the same as the background color? But I can't remember for sure 14:36:29 <|amethyst> in particular, some transmuters never cast sticks to snakes 14:36:32 hmm 14:36:47 DracoOmega: makes sense 14:37:11 I was about to ask if this was just hypothetical or if you had a user who wanted it 14:37:23 Well, someone did sort of ask about it in ##crawl a moment ago 14:37:28 EE also autopickups stones right? 14:37:31 bit weird for D:27 or whatever 14:37:34 In terms of 'why am I autopicking up things for a spell I don't even know'? 14:38:10 well you might still know sandblast but it's unlikely you use it :P 14:38:11 Well, starting with it on my default does seem okay since you can turn it off again in-game (but it shouldn't overwrite rcs or something, I guess) 14:38:18 by default* 14:38:23 elliott: you're supposed to turn it off at some point, duh 14:38:26 well, it seems bad to force people to tweak autopickup to not pickup junk 14:38:34 (I was curious because some people and I are working on a sort of roguelike that hopefully will see the light of day at some point in the future) 14:38:38 since not everyone knows about \ and the effort saved not pressing , is minimal to start with 14:38:43 the "I don't have sticks to snakes memorized" point is something I hadn't quite realized 14:39:01 elliott: it's not just , 14:39:11 you also have to get TO the thing 14:39:12 -!- Duralumin_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:18 DracoOmega: a final effect means the preserver, nor the monster it protects, can't be removed before the effect is resolved 14:39:20 <|amethyst> SamB: snakeable autopickup can be done better with an a_e anyway 14:39:32 <|amethyst> SamB: since "stick" is a prefix 14:39:41 well, autoexplore is quite good at that 14:39:43 DracoOmega: especially if one wants to avoid massive spam, give messages for misses/glancing hits, etc 14:39:45 also x-g is convenient 14:39:49 kilobyte: Oh, was this supposed to be able to blast THROUGH things if it hurts them enough? 14:39:54 |amethyst: yeah, if they actually want to clutter the inventory with every stick they find 14:40:11 <|amethyst> SamB: well, arrows then 14:40:25 -!- kek has left ##crawl-dev 14:40:25 kilobyte: Since normally not removing things until a spell effect is finished makes sense and is fine 14:40:26 <|amethyst> SamB: but I don't see how to do the starting ammo thing with an autopickup_exception 14:40:38 anyway, I see what you mean, and if you want to do anything about it I won't mind 14:40:59 but I don't know how to actually do it either 14:41:22 DracoOmega: like in Doom, the idea is that if X pellets are enough to kill a monster, the rest can continue through 14:41:35 Ah, I see 14:42:03 (I, uh, don't think I knew it worked that way in Doom, incidentally) 14:42:14 kilobyte: that's kinda crazy 14:42:41 DracoOmega: the second problems is messaging: if some pellets hit but all are stopped by armour, the message should be different, and same if all miss 14:42:59 kilobyte: Hmmm... though in this case, how do preservers cause more problems than, say, a kraken or starspawn already would? 14:43:49 yeah, because the damage needs to be done after messaging 14:44:48 SamB: does your autopickup thing work for wanderers? 14:44:51 -!- pubby has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:44:58 starcursed masses merge only after the attack, and if some of them dies, there's nothing tp merge 14:45:19 kilobyte: I said starspawn, not starcursed masses. I mean the tentacles shifting damage to the head and all 14:45:39 Which uses the same final effect 14:45:48 DracoOmega: where are your pro doom strats 14:45:54 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:46:26 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: those don't reduce the damage to the tentacle, do they? 14:46:53 |amethyst: Well no, but if the effect is a spray, it could still kill things that would otherwise be in the way of it, no? 14:47:08 |amethyst: And so remove blockers along part of the spray path 14:47:28 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I think the issue with injury bond is what happens when you shoot a bonding recipient 14:47:37 |amethyst: The bit that REDUCES damage via injury bond is not a final effect, and happens at the point damage is inflicted 14:47:49 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:48:04 So you should have accuracte info at the moment of injury whether the shielded person actually lives or not 14:48:05 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: how many pellets stop? As many as would normally kill it, or as many as it takes to kill it and the bonder? 14:48:39 rchandra: hmm, dunno, how do wanders get their weapons? 14:48:50 the problem is with the "enough to kill the bonder" part 14:48:50 er, wanderers 14:48:58 certainly not spell-wise 14:49:13 Since I guess you don't know how much is 'enough' until after the final effect fires 14:50:03 But like, injury bond can already absorb half of ANY blow, no matter how much this would put the preserver into the negative 14:50:15 Which I tend to think is fine, really 14:50:32 <|amethyst> kilobyte: maybe just require twice as many pellets if they're bonded? 14:50:40 So even in the normal case, it doesn't stop at 'enough to kill the preserver' 14:50:58 And is quite capable of overkilling it before it falls over from the blow 14:51:19 <|amethyst> kilobyte: i.e. they effectively have twice the HP 14:51:30 <|amethyst> based on what DracoOmega's saying 14:52:24 DracoOmega: because other effects don't care about their current hp 14:52:48 ie, a penetrating bolt will continue regardless of how much damage it did 14:52:57 <|amethyst> anyway, I'm off to a meeting; I'll be back in a few hours 14:53:01 or whether the monster survived 14:53:20 Well, I mean it can be assumed that the preserver shielded half of the whole blow, no matter how much damage it did 14:53:53 So I think what |amethyst said makes sense here, that you could assume they have effectively twice their current hp in terms of 'will it die and let other stuff pass through it?' 14:54:43 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:55:30 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:31 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:05 there is another problem uncovered: deep dwarves suffer less from piecemeal damage, like Tornado or clouds, when hasted, and more when slowed 15:13:07 -!- inpho has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:27 clouds in fact do this for everyone with AC 15:17:38 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:20:19 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:25:38 rofl nice 15:28:54 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:29:01 -!- n1k has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:29:29 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:49 -!- dupo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:32:04 umm 15:32:20 are ugly things ever supposed to leave skeletons 15:32:56 red ugly thing (05u) | Spd: 11 (act: 110%) | HD: 8 | HP: 29-56 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 1104(fire:8-15) | 10doors | Res: 06magic(32), 05fire, 04napalm | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 340 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 15:32:56 %??ugly thing 15:33:09 hmm, I guess that doesn't give any info does it 15:33:13 no not really 15:33:21 I'm fairly sure they're not 15:33:24 Did you just run into one? 15:33:28 yes 15:33:33 Monster 'ugly thing' can't use items. 15:33:33 %??ugly thing; ugly thing skeleton 15:33:41 orc (04o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 15:33:41 %??orc; ugly thing skeleton 15:33:42 I didn't notice until I tried to cast animate skeleton on something else 15:33:49 which repeatedly failed with no explanation 15:33:52 they can leave skeletons, they just can't be raised 15:33:57 oh, hm 15:34:03 Oh, skeleton in THAT sense 15:34:06 I thought you meant a mobile one 15:34:07 because of the mutagenicness or something 15:34:11 but then that sounds weird because the skeleton existing 15:34:26 it is a bit, yes 15:34:28 yeah that doesn't seem like it should be a thing 15:34:29 prevents other corpses on the same space from being raised via animate skeleton 15:34:30 Yeah, it does a little 15:34:36 Oh, it does? 15:34:39 yes 15:34:41 Well, that's a definite bug 15:34:46 As opposed to just an oddity 15:35:00 I could carry the orc corpse back over to reproduce it I guess 15:35:14 well, it might depend on the stacking order 15:35:36 that's possible I suppose, like it tries to raise that one, fails, then doesn't try the next but refuses to explain 15:36:11 Anyway it's weird and I can file a report if you like but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something 15:36:49 -!- home has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:39:37 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:40:17 -!- Duralumin_ is now known as Duralumin 15:43:08 I'm sure there are a bunch of bugs with defining undead ugly things in vaults too, get hangedman on the case 15:48:38 -!- Coffeespoons has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:49:25 I'd try to reproduce this, but I can't figure out how to get wizmode to give me an ugly thing skeleton, so just submitting 15:50:03 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:50:19 &%ugly thing skeleton not working? 15:50:26 Well, you could make an ugly thing, kill it, and then cast corpse rot 15:50:42 (That leaves skeletons, right?) 15:50:46 I actually forget 15:50:52 It does actually, let's see 15:51:42 ah there we go, now to get another corpse 15:53:17 it doesn't seem to matter which one I put on the space first, just refuses to do anything either way 15:53:35 okay 15:54:00 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 15:54:34 ugly thing skeletons prevent animate skeleton on other corpses by Swiss 15:58:10 ugly things have skeletons?? 15:58:50 yes this was news to me too 15:59:04 probably they shouldn't 15:59:04 I suppose it's kind of hard to run into them 15:59:18 ??ugly thing 15:59:19 ugly thing[1/2]: Ugly things are found in a variety of colours. Their colour indicates what kind of damage they do, and resist; red is fire, white is cold, brown is acid, green is poison, cyan is electricity, and purple is sickness. They can change their colour by being in proximity of their siblings or a contaminated PC. 16:00:41 -!- ahpla has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:01:39 wait, tree form can use a blowgun? 16:02:25 ??ugly thing[2] 16:02:26 ugly thing[2/2]: Polymorph other changes their colour, so it can be useful to get rid of brown ones. 16:04:14 ??brown draconian 16:04:15 I don't have a page labeled brown_draconian in my learndb. 16:04:23 ??yellow draconian 16:04:23 yellow draconian[1/1]: A form of draconians that can spit acid (which corrodes armour or causes bleeding). Player character gets no unique aptitudes. Gains rCorr at XL 7. Gets an acidic bite at XL 14. 16:05:10 anyway i dont think tree form should be able to keep using this blowgun 16:05:10 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:10 You can still speak, no? 16:09:15 So why shouldn't you be able to blow? 16:10:41 hmm, ok 16:10:53 you can't speak 16:10:59 "You have no mouth!" 16:11:16 presumably that check should apply to blowguns too 16:11:17 You have no mouth, and you must scream. 16:11:26 i have no mouth but I can blow 16:12:26 oh and if im reading badwiki correctly, spending a few turns in tree form will bring your nutation from starving all the way to satiated 16:13:03 either you're not or it's wrong 16:13:18 ok 16:13:42 MarvinPA: can you not tt 16:13:43 in tree form 16:14:21 -!- notmadreisz is now known as lainiw 16:14:21 well i mean technically it does set you to satiated, but when the form ends your hunger state is set to whatever it was before 16:14:28 looks like yeah the wiki is just clueless 16:14:35 elliott: no 16:14:41 wow badwiki is up to date enough to document badforms? 16:14:47 albeit incorrectly 16:14:51 up-to-date enough to yeah that 16:14:55 Wait, can you not cast spells in tree form? 16:15:13 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:15:27 you can 16:15:35 But yet you can't speak 16:15:42 somehow i am not surprised that all of this stuff is hugely ridiculously inconsistent, yes 16:15:43 Does this mean you can cast spells in tree form while silenced? 16:15:48 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:48 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 16:15:48 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:00 MarvinPA: ok thanks 16:16:00 why doesn't treeform have a mouth 16:16:10 DracoOmega: you cannot 16:16:12 lots of trees in fiction have 16:16:18 MarvinPA: Well, that clearly makes no sense at all 16:16:23 do trees have eyes? 16:16:23 Either you need sound to cast or you don't 16:16:25 indeed it does not 16:16:28 maybe it can cast spells soundlessly 16:16:31 or are you blind while in treeform? 16:16:35 rast_: Then why can it be silenced? 16:16:41 I think in D&D that's even a thing for mute races 16:16:56 Well, it clearly isn't here, since things that don't cast spells with speach are unsilenceable 16:16:59 DracoOmega: the words " ridiculously inconsistent" were used 16:17:03 Yes 16:17:15 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:23 mouthless forms can also use invocations (but not while silenced) 16:19:10 maybe its making sounds but without a mouth 16:19:31 so obviously tt should still work then 16:19:45 how about all forms have mouths 16:19:47 and can speak 16:19:50 but blowguns probably not 16:20:27 elliott: Well, probably it is okay if some do not, like say wisp form? Since I think no one would be confused at not being able to vocalize ther 16:21:21 But it would be nice if other stuff were less inconsistant 16:21:25 indeed 16:21:28 well then wisp form would be able to do almost nothing at all since presumably it would have to have god invocations taken away too 16:21:35 but i guess that is the point of wisp form or something 16:21:40 Well, wisp form should also last only a few turns 16:21:48 Like paralysis, but not as bad 16:21:53 well i think maybe wisp form should just not exist, since it seems really hard to make it not a death sentence without making it not a wisp 16:21:55 Rather than like paralysis, but 10 times as long 16:22:43 it's almost as if no bad forms should exist... 16:22:47 I think several badform problems could be solved by making the durations for each form more sane and tailored to how impairing they are 16:23:00 st_: what, you want to remove necromutation? 16:23:06 burnnn 16:23:08 [tacky rimshot] 16:23:37 I suppose the other option is to make wand-based malutes temporary, like with that new abyss monster 16:23:48 I mean, after bad forms are removed 16:24:01 well monsters could just not zap poly wands, but i don't think bad forms are going to be removed 16:25:13 sane durations would help a lot although there is still the problem of having to look up a complicated list of which special cases apply to each form 16:25:23 They should also be more unified in that regard, I think 16:25:28 Some limitations are more obvious than others 16:25:39 But like, all animal-esque forms ought to have basically the same major limitations, I think 16:25:57 maybe when you turn into a form the game should tell you the things you now can/can't do 16:25:59 Rather than some allow casting and some not, for not obvious reason 16:26:02 -!- Nicksvaffel is now known as Isvaffel 16:26:23 rast_: every time you change? 16:26:25 But it is a lot more obvious to a new player why wisp form couldn't use items and such, and it's quickly obvious that tree form can't move, etc. 16:26:35 SamB: it could be turned off in options, of course 16:26:55 how many times would you have to hit enter? 16:26:57 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:06 it would be on one or two lines 16:27:19 just the most important things 16:27:37 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 16:28:16 how about if you made the message happen only the first time each game you get foo formed? 16:28:34 sure 16:28:37 but yes, currently some animal forms don't allow spellcasting because they're "bad" forms but also polymorph can transform you into, say, spider form which isn't a "bad" form and so can still cast spells??? 16:28:52 rchandra: what if it scrolled off and you wanted to see it again? 16:28:58 crtrl+p 16:29:08 I meant scrolled off that 16:29:20 idk, wiki it 16:29:20 Like, if all animal forms could cast spells they wouldn't be very impairing to conjurer-types, but possibly that is okay? 16:29:29 or have it show up on ability screen (it may already) 16:29:31 we don't have a playerwiki that is wiki 16:29:32 We could always give them increased miscast chance, like spider form already has 16:30:00 And it is fine, in my opinion, if some forms are more impairing to certain character types than others, anyway 16:30:13 that would probably be somewhat better, yes 16:30:42 DracoOmega: that's kind of expected, yes 16:30:59 -!- Nomi has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 16:33:10 -!- Souljazz\unfoog has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 16:36:05 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:39:36 So really, I think consistant limitations combined with per-form adjusted durations would make a lot of the current problems with this go away 16:39:51 Since I think the basic concept is fine, even if the implementation needs adjusting 16:40:53 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:42:45 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:03 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:45:10 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:43 -!- sstrickl has quit [Changing host] 16:47:54 -!- SomeoneAwful has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:50:32 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:43 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 16:56:29 -!- notmadreisz has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:45 why does dropping a item take 1 turn? 16:57:05 -!- lainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:57:07 shouldnt it be faster? 16:59:44 more things should take 10 aut not less 16:59:59 -!- C7ty1 has quit [] 17:02:09 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:29 -!- Mathiu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:09:29 -!- Zermako has quit [] 17:12:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:58 picking up an item takes 1 turn, except if it's automatic for some reason 17:14:06 wait no, that does still take time 17:18:03 Yes, that is why autopickup turns off around invisible things 17:18:04 you can pick up multiple things in 10 aut 17:18:21 Yes, it is odd that picking up is faster than dropping 17:18:39 DracoOmega: i thought the point of the autopickup thing was to be the world's weirdest deliberate info leak :p 17:19:30 Haha 17:20:47 -!- notmadreisz is now known as lainiw 17:24:25 <|amethyst> So, now that there are some devs around, thoughts on 1. should a netted player be able to shop? 2. should a tree be able to shop? 17:24:55 Probably not, but it also seems like it would never actually matter 17:25:07 netted player could, like, tumble into the shop 17:25:14 <|amethyst> right now 1. is inconsistent depending on whether you use < or >, and 2. looks like it's supposed to be blocked in down_stairs but needs to be handled in _go_{up,down}stairs 17:25:17 i think crawl canon is that shops are above the player 17:25:21 because you used to have to be able to use < 17:25:27 so maybe you can't tumble in because you have to climb 17:25:34 I don't think it really matters which direction they are in 17:25:34 *have to use < 17:25:35 You still need to walk through the door 17:25:40 Which you probably can't do if you can't move 17:25:45 DracoOmega: well if they're like a door in the floor 17:25:54 you could pull it open and tumble in! 17:26:01 <|amethyst> %bug 7061 17:26:01 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7061 17:26:03 You can't go down stairs you're netted on, can you? 17:26:06 <|amethyst> that's the relevant bug 17:26:12 Even though you could technically roll down them in the net somehow 17:26:19 -!- Dalvant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:26:31 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: no, but the order of the shop vs netting checks is different for upstairs and downstairs 17:26:58 Is there any case now where down and up should be handled differently anyway? 17:27:02 <|amethyst> and it's been that way for a long time 17:27:02 Now that levitation is an unthing? 17:27:11 if you can tumble into a shop while in a net, how do you get out? 17:27:22 Oh, burden, I guess 17:27:30 is it an escher shop, where you go downstairs to get in, go downstairs to get out, and end up in the same spot? :P 17:27:33 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: probably not to the extent it needs a different function though 17:27:49 I am not currently thinking of anything that affects one but not the other aside from being overburdened 17:27:51 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: _go_{up,down}stairs should be merged and take a param for the direction 17:27:54 Which seems like just one extra check 17:27:56 Yeah 17:28:20 <|amethyst> but *also* there's much duplicated between _go_foostairs and foo_stairs 17:28:21 Really, it strikes me as kind of strange that they are seperate, since it would seem that most of the code would be almost the same 17:28:33 But possibly it is mostly really old code 17:28:39 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: it is 17:28:46 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: or rather, accretions upon old code 17:28:53 badwiki says, "Dig out as large an area outside of the Orb chamber as you can to greatly improve your odds of landing somewhere safe after a teleport. This bug/feature will be removed in 0.12. " 17:29:10 how was this tactic nerfed? 17:29:31 <|amethyst> %git 93df097 17:29:31 03elliptic * 0.12-a0-1329-g93df097: Prevent digging from influencing teleportation. 10(5 months ago, 1 file, 13+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=93df097427e1 17:29:34 You can't teleport into places that are dug 17:29:42 You will only land in spots that were originally open 17:29:44 <|amethyst> solid squares are marked as no_rtele 17:30:06 ahok, nice 17:30:27 <|amethyst> (the duplication between _go_foostairs and foo_stairs is maybe because the latter still needs to handle the case where you start climbing stairs but then are teleported onto other stairs/a shop?) 17:30:39 <|amethyst> there's a comment about teleportation anyway 17:31:19 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:33 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:43 that rtele thing is kind of weird 17:31:53 I expect this duplication might be part of that bug where G< doesn't work consistantly? 17:32:21 if autotraval does one thing and manual traval a different thing 17:32:36 <|amethyst> SamB: doesn't work consistently how? 17:33:14 sometimes, it doesn't take you up the nearest stair 17:33:34 -!- G-Flax has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:56 <|amethyst> SamB: I don't think that would be related then 17:33:58 I think this is because SOMETHING forgot to fill in memory that the stair goes the floor above or something 17:34:03 -!- Duralumin_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:06 well perhaps not 17:34:14 -!- G-Flax has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:19 <|amethyst> oh, I see 17:34:33 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:35 <|amethyst> as in maybe it depends on which way you traversed the stair the first time 17:34:35 one thing I know: the less duplicationy the code for going down stairs gets, the less places there are for this bug to hide 17:34:45 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:35:55 <|amethyst> I retitled the bug 17:36:15 <|amethyst> to "0007061: Duplicate and inconsistent code for stair/shop traversal" 17:37:05 Deduplicate code! 17:37:18 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:37:27 <|amethyst> I guess if someone wants to make it an implementable they'll have to retitle it :) 17:37:33 <|amethyst> TODO: Duplicate code 17:37:42 TODO: Duplicate comments 17:37:45 TODO: Duplicate comments 17:38:17 <|amethyst> TOTO: Rosanna 17:38:22 well, maybe i'll take a crack at merging the functions 17:38:30 <|amethyst> sweet! 17:39:52 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:59 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:41:25 -!- st_ has quit [] 17:41:27 <|amethyst> Zannick: I assigned it to myself and added a not that you're working on it 17:41:31 <|amethyst> note 17:41:42 cool 17:41:49 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:01 i can't have things assigned to me, as a reporter? :P 17:42:03 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:36 <|amethyst> Zannick: only things you reported I think 17:42:41 i see 17:43:00 another reason to hurry up and make me a dev ;) 17:43:16 <|amethyst> I don't even see galefury in the list, and I know he has extra manis privs 17:43:21 <|amethyst> mantis 17:43:33 mantis the hands of fate 17:44:56 <|amethyst> Mantis, god of primal bugs, as thou hast decreed so have I done. 17:45:25 <|amethyst> (had to look that up; I haven't seen the movie in 15 years) 17:45:38 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:45:53 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:46:15 haven't seen it at all 17:46:57 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:55:27 -!- n1k has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:58:36 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 18:04:05 -!- tswett has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 18:04:05 -!- tswett has quit [Changing host] 18:04:05 -!- Moanerette has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:04:05 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:09:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: BRB, DEAD] 18:12:17 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:36 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:37 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 18:16:37 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 18:18:59 ...surely I should have a list longer than four articles complaining about zombie bugs 18:19:15 Zombies aren't stupid enough. 18:19:20 There's another. 18:24:48 zombie bugs? 18:24:48 like giant firefly zombie? 18:24:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:48 ant queen zombie? 18:24:54 er, queen ant zombie, i guess 18:25:32 (It's really annoying how queen ants aren't ant queens.) 18:25:59 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:29:11 -!- ahpla has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:33:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:00 fr king ants 18:35:45 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:36:20 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:37:05 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:37:45 -!- SomeoneAwful has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:31 BlastHardcheese: you know that makes no sense right? 18:43:17 ??realism of crawl 18:43:18 realism of crawl[1/13]: whacking KILLER FUCKING BEES with a halberd and throwing javelins at them 18:44:21 ... point ... 18:44:23 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:44:26 ??realism of crawl[2] 18:44:27 realism of crawl[2/13]: Bananas and strawberries that last forever. 18:44:34 ??realism of crawl[3] 18:44:35 realism of crawl[3/13]: There are no ninjas or pirates. 18:44:51 ??realism of crawl[4] 18:44:52 realism of crawl[4/13]: Death by lack of intelligence. 18:44:56 ??realism of crawl[13] 18:44:56 realism of crawl[13/13]: unable to close a door because a dart is in the way 18:45:01 ??realism of crawl[12] 18:45:01 realism of crawl[12/13]: inscribing grapes 18:45:10 ??realism of crawl[-3] 18:45:11 realism of crawl[11/13]: The thing I love about Crawl is the potential for ridiculousness. How would you feel if a flying octopus with spikes on its testicles attacked you? 18:45:20 giant fireflies have a very obvious bug which is that they are the same speed as a spriggan and thus spriggan rider is pointless 18:46:35 there are giant fireflies that ride spriggans? 18:47:20 -!- ahpla_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:47:41 parasitic botflies ride the spriggans which ride the giant fireflies, obviously 18:48:23 -!- Ionic is now known as Guest15899 18:48:33 spriggan rider (12i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 11 | HP: 36-52 | AC/EV: 1/16 | Dam: 21 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(102) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1077 | Sz: small | Int: high. 18:48:33 %??spriggan rider 18:48:45 giant firefly (12k) | Spd: 16 | HD: 7 | HP: 15-28 | AC/EV: 1/18 | Dam: 8 | fly | Res: 06magic(65) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 241 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 18:48:45 %??giant firefly 18:48:52 spriggan (15i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 7 | HP: 14-28 | AC/EV: 1/20 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible | Res: 06magic(65) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 307 | Sz: little | Int: high. 18:48:52 %??spriggan 18:48:56 i don't think that's the only reason spriggan rider is pointless 18:49:08 also I like how two spriggans duct-taped together give more experience that a hydra 18:49:23 pass the duct tape 18:49:26 Well, the monster exp formula is terrible in several ways 18:49:40 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:49:44 You can make a bat worth 8k exp by giving it 30 HD and 5 copies of teleport self 18:49:54 fr telebat 18:49:59 Though it still has a 1 damage attack as its only offense 18:50:04 transdimensional hellbat 18:50:07 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 30 | HP: 85-126 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 8381 | Sp: teleport self | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 18:50:07 %??bat hd:30 spells:teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self 18:50:08 And thus is barely more dangerous than a normal bat 18:50:11 \o/ 18:50:18 lots of hp!! 18:50:28 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:36 The exp function has list of spells it considers 'nasty', that it gives bonuses for 18:50:42 Unknown spell name: 'crystal spear' in 'teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;crystal_spear' 18:50:42 %??bat hd:30 spells:teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;crystal_spear 18:50:48 is teleport self really considered nasty 18:50:51 it's like the least nasty spell in the game 18:50:52 Interestingly, teleport self is on that list (but fireball is not) 18:50:59 Also venom bolt is on the list, but poison arrow is not 18:51:02 Unknown spell name: 'lehudibs crystal spear' in 'teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;lehudibs_crystal_spear' 18:51:02 %??bat hd:30 spells:teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;lehudibs_crystal_spear 18:51:07 And several other things that make no sense 18:51:18 firestorm bat please 18:51:28 The top-tier of 'scary spells' at least makes sense 18:51:31 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(1) | XP: 1 | Sp: fire storm (8d1) | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 18:51:31 %??bat spells:fire_storm 18:51:33 But the lower tier is rather random 18:54:47 Oh no, 8d1!!!!! 18:54:47 Unknown spell name: 'lcs' in 'teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;lcs' 18:54:47 %??bat hd:30 spells:teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;lcs 18:54:47 pff, it is yet even more material to complain about grunt's work 18:54:47 in that he forgot to add shatter to that list 18:54:47 That is hardly the most important omission 18:54:47 well yes 18:54:47 The big bulk of the exp seems to be: hp, HD, and speed 18:54:47 did i break chei? 18:54:47 again? 18:54:47 It ignores defenses completely, for example, ignores most spells, and ignores melee damage under several circumstances 18:54:47 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | sense invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(1) | XP: 1 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 18:54:47 %?? bat 18:54:47 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:54:47 A spellless orb of fire would be worth just as much exp as it currently is, for example 18:54:47 Despite literally doing NOTHING 18:54:47 so who wants to throw out the xp calculator for everything besides &s/ghosts and manually translate averages of xp worth to monsters 18:54:47 I volunteer not me 18:54:47 oh, doesn't %??/@?? actually do something involving creating the monster to determine its xp? 18:54:47 I don't think it's an inherantly bad idea, though possibly you'd want at least some algorithmic adjustment for monsters that have gained/lost HD? 18:54:47 use the arena against a fixed set of pre built player characters :p 18:54:47 choose XP based on results 18:54:47 if so, i think it is having a hard time somewhere with that spell set :< 18:54:47 i don't see why monsters don't just get xp values assigned manually and stuff 18:54:47 same for hp 18:54:47 instead of all these weird unpredictable calculations 18:54:47 elliott: Well, that's what he just said, no? 18:54:52 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:54:53 oh 18:54:54 i guess so! 18:54:59 i was looking like thirty lines up 18:55:01 oh, well i guess it's not lcs, either! 18:55:04 keeping xp the same when hd changes during a game sounds fine anyway 18:55:10 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(1) | XP: 1 | Sp: crystal spear (3d17) | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 18:55:10 %??bat spells:lehudib's_crystal_spear 18:55:10 And just use the formula for monsters that are constructed algorithmically 18:55:10 -!- Guest15899 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:55:16 MarvinPA: draining buff!! 18:55:19 oh, figures 18:55:26 MarvinPA: Yeah, I don't necessarily care that much about that, but it's one of the only edge cases for normal monsters 18:55:26 how inconsistent 18:55:35 MarvinPA just wants to buff every brand for 0.13 18:55:37 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 30 | HP: 85-126 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 7889 | Sp: teleport self, crystal spear (3d52) | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 18:55:37 %??bat hd:30 spells:teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;teleport_self;lehudib's_crystal_spear 18:55:41 Since otherwise there are a bunch of monsters whose xp value is perhaps a little off 18:55:45 hahahahahaha 18:55:47 no more additional experience for killing all of your yred/beoghh followers 18:55:53 tenofswords: You already get none 18:55:57 oh 18:55:57 it's worth less than one with 5 teleport selfs 18:56:07 manually assigning xp values sounds like a pain though 18:56:14 indeed 18:56:16 script it! 18:56:20 somehow 18:56:35 use templates to compute it at compile time! 18:56:44 I'm not opposed to the idea (and possibly there would be some discussion on which ought to be worth less/more), but it's less important than quite a few other things at present, anyway 18:57:10 SamB: it could even be automatically calculated from a bunch of things and then adjusted manually if necessary 18:57:15 wait a second if it can be called a bit of code cleanliness 18:57:24 we could get dolorous to do it 18:57:27 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:57:43 Ha 18:58:03 XP values could be nice rounded numbers! 18:58:05 anyway yeah i would suggest just simplifying the xp calculation a bunch and then adjusting xp mod if anything does need to change 18:58:16 manually doing it sounds like hassle and weird and stuff 18:58:21 tenofswords: I don't know, I found a comment that HE failed to update when HE added a field to a struct *3 years ago* that I had to fix TODAY 18:58:27 well just give monsters the xp they get now 18:58:35 and then adjust them as needed 18:58:38 SamB: Hey, he's not PERFECT 18:58:50 elliott: That is what I assumed the starting point would be, sure 18:58:51 yes but how did he miss HIS OWN EDIT 18:59:05 yes, the codebase is so mess that even the robot can't do it too well 18:59:10 I think a lot of monsters have xp values at present kinda 'just because' and haven't been looked at that closely 18:59:22 missing comments when changing stuff is hardly an uncommon thing 18:59:32 best way to get less xp into the game 18:59:35 yaktaur (05c) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-58 | AC/EV: 4/4 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(32) | XP: 399 | Sz: Big | Int: normal. 18:59:35 %??yaktaur 18:59:41 it was right at the top of the file though 18:59:43 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:58 ...bah, I should remember more than random spriggans and rakshasas 19:02:58 Well, yaktaurs certainly don't seem to give too much xp 19:02:59 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:02:59 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:02:59 DracoOmega: I think that was the point 19:02:59 also presumably some version of the current xp calculator would have to stay around somewhere anyway 19:02:59 ghosts and &s 19:02:59 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:02:59 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:59 i was thinking more about pulling xp values from nowhere for new monsters but that too, yeah 19:02:59 &s? 19:02:59 Pan lords 19:11:10 -!- Rage_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:11:10 -!- ketsa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:23 -!- SomeoneAwful has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:13:53 yaktaur captain (04c) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 58-97 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 23 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(56) | XP: 1404 | Sz: Big | Int: normal. 19:13:53 %??yaktaur captain 19:13:58 gives a fair amount of xp 19:14:20 monster base-units of reasonable threats versus xp 19:14:32 imo ditch xp, brogue time 19:15:02 agile orbs of fire for everybody 19:15:06 but muh micromanagement 19:19:22 haha 19:19:22 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 11437 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 19:19:22 %?? orb of fire 19:19:22 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 12529 | Sp: teleport self | Sz: little | Int: normal. 19:19:22 %?? orb of fire spells:teleport_self 19:19:22 tisk tisk 19:19:22 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 22-23 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 12529 | Sp: teleport self | Sz: little | Int: normal. 19:19:22 %??orb of fire perm_ench:haste spells:teleport_self 19:19:22 replacing all of the orb's spells with just one teleport self makes it worth more xp 19:19:22 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:19:22 -!- ohms has quit [Quit: My refridgerator beckons to me.] 19:19:22 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:23:43 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:43 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 19:23:43 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 19:24:01 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 11437 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 19:24:01 %?? orb of fire 19:24:32 hi chei 19:24:38 take it easy man 19:24:49 but yeah 19:25:29 -bolt of fire, -malmutate, -fireball, +teleport self = +1092 xp 19:26:00 and perm_ench haste does nothing to its xp 19:26:05 Well, that bit makes sense 19:26:25 Since permenant enchantments don't really exist in normal place, and temporary ones obviously shouldn't affect xp 19:26:34 yeah 19:26:43 The other stuff is rediculous, of course 19:26:43 juggernaut orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 10 | HD: 30 | HP: 300 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 19:26:43 %??orb of fire perm_ench:slow name:juggernaut n_adj hp:300 19:26:51 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:12 I'd fight an orb of fire with just teleport self any day over normal ones. 19:27:12 More copies of teleport self would be even MORE xp, by the way 19:27:20 well, of course :P 19:27:20 if only there was a good infested analogy, or inner flame was half as dangerous as explosive 19:27:35 Not a monster spell: 'inner flame' 19:27:35 %?? orb of fire spells:inner_flame 19:27:38 aw 19:28:01 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 11437 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 19:28:01 %?? orb of fire perm_ench:inner_flame 19:28:42 -!- ZebTM has quit [] 19:31:54 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:31:54 -!- Kalma has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:31:54 -!- home has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:54 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:33:36 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:35:29 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 19:35:46 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:38:30 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:41:06 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:44:19 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:44:45 -!- flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:47:59 -!- G-Flax has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:21 -!- G-Flax has joined ##crawl-dev 19:51:20 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:53:15 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 19:54:47 -!- SteampunkDuck has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:55:17 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:15:41 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:25 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-809-g4ae6c3f: Use random_choose() and random_choose_weighted() in two more places. 10(in the future, 1 file, 17+ 27-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ae6c3f32c37 20:18:05 -!- ahpla_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:18:28 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:49 -!- TastyLemonDrops has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:49 -!- reiswind is now known as TastyLemonDrops 20:19:22 hey, is there a way to get sdl-android without git-submodule-update taking years to download it? 20:19:57 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:22:41 nrook: I'm not sure why that would take years; it's the same server we use for all the other submodules ... 20:26:24 SamB: huh, odd, must be on my end then 20:26:43 I suppose it could just have a lot of history or something ... 20:26:47 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:26:55 * SamB hasn't actually tried cloning it 20:27:34 -!- Wahaha_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:42:19 -!- serq has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:22 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:54:18 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:53 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-810-g99442af: Use random_choose() and random_choose_weighted() in even more places. 10(55 seconds ago, 1 file, 24+ 46-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=99442af878d4 20:57:55 options_guide: Fix some references and markup by chris 21:00:07 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:01:19 -!- Ionic is now known as Guest53840 21:01:37 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:02:58 Whitespace fixes by chris 21:02:58 -!- tgcid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:07 HarmlessChicken (L21 OpHe) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 599: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Zot (ZotDef)) 21:08:01 Fix message length calculation in inventory by chris 21:12:06 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:52 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:15:04 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:07 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 21:21:37 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 21:22:25 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 21:23:59 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:34 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:44 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:33:41 -!- kait_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:34:19 -!- tigertrap has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:04 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:51 -!- bigdumbman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:06 -!- tigertrap has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:39:35 -!- bigdumbman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:25 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:22 -!- bigdumbman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:07 -!- bigdumbman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:43:48 -!- SomeoneAwful has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:10 -!- tigertrap has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:26 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-811-g0e6176b: Give wisp form rN+++, to match monsters. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0e6176b3d7c6 21:48:26 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-812-g01f445f: Make wisp and tree form strongly depend on XL. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 9+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=01f445fad4b8 21:48:26 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-813-g1be9997: Give the wisp form a fighting chance for non-UC chars. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 23+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1be999748c10 21:48:26 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-814-g9f276dc: Use random_choose_weighted() for Zot defender selection. 10(27 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9f276dc39333 21:48:26 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-815-g2b26552: Get rid of a bunch of pointless ifs. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 27-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2b265523c442 21:48:38 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:59:24 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:11 -!- n1k has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:02:20 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:30 haha, this line sounds so bad at first 22:02:41 ouch(INSTANT_DEATH, NON_MONSTER, KILLED_BY_WINNING); 22:03:02 You have won! You die... 22:03:15 Ouch! That really hurt! You win... 22:03:29 <|amethyst> A curious game indeed 22:03:47 |amethyst is quite adept at dying to win >_> 22:03:59 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:07:01 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:32 -!- Nomi has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 22:10:22 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.] 22:18:05 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:19:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:06 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:41 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 22:32:55 -!- ragingrage has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:34:12 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:21 do wands use evocations at all? 22:34:22 bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:34:24 !messages 22:34:25 (1/1) minqmay said (6h 11m 24s ago): !tv dorian abyss -tv:<0.3 22:34:35 oh god, this can't be good. 22:35:05 lainiw: are you still watching? 22:35:31 huh, the footv?? 22:35:43 yeah 22:35:45 !tv dorian abyss -tv:<0.3 22:35:46 1. Dorian, XL27 SpEn, T:77529 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 22:36:33 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:36:38 !tell minqmay goddammit that's bullshit. :( 22:36:39 bh: OK, I'll let minqmay know. 22:37:43 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37:48 !tell minqmay That's bullshit enough that I might just remove lethal liquids from the abyss 22:37:49 bh: OK, I'll let minqmay know. 22:38:59 on another note wands do indeed use evocations 22:40:10 except healing, apparently 22:40:14 SwissStopwatch: k. I'm still liking the idea of a 'wand of clouds'. Higher evoc, more clouds and a higher chance of more dangerous clouds 22:40:19 -!- mumra_ is now known as mumra 22:43:02 -!- DarthXaos has quit [] 22:43:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:44:44 well, somehow i got this projectile code rewrite working 22:47:16 evoke wand, kill yourself with fcloud would be a good death 22:47:31 killed themself with a badly aimed freezing cloud 22:48:20 of course I can't imagine a wand of fcloud being anywhere near the accepted power level of the other wands 22:49:49 SwissStopwatch: right, which is why it would generate random clouds 22:49:58 i need to get someone with c++ skills to look at this and tell me if i've done anything insane, since i restructured the code into OOP 22:50:08 but it could be useful for stuff other than projectile movement 22:50:10 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:50:28 mumra: FP for life, but OO is an improvement over crawl's unstructuredness 22:50:31 -!- Guest53840 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:51:15 yes 22:51:34 does this make throwing code less awful 22:51:45 i find FP breaks down at a certain level of complexity when you end up with huge functions and all kinds of weird special cases 22:51:49 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:51:54 elliott: this is just for IOOD/boulders, not missiles 22:52:00 mumra: use a monad ;) 22:52:09 bh ... right 22:52:16 mumra: can we adopt it to something like a CBL rewrite? :b 22:52:19 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 22:52:31 Grunt: yes, i remembered you mentioning that before, it should be possible 22:52:36 cause >>=, >> and return make everything magically better 22:52:37 the last time I used haskell I was playing around with project euler. I realized that there was a function that I could not simultaneously write tail recursively and in a memoized manner. I threw it out and rewrote it in C++ 22:52:40 (and the laws) 22:52:40 Grunt: CBL? 22:52:51 bh: Conjure Ball Lightning. 22:52:52 COBOL? 22:52:53 (though I don't actually remember what the laws ARE off the top of my head) 22:53:03 SamB: 1. Don't kill humans 22:53:10 Grunt: you can override the MovementHandler class, that use your new class to override movement behaviour 22:53:24 bh: I think that's Asimov's rules of robotics 22:53:35 or is it laws 22:53:37 I can't remember 22:53:42 A robot shall not harm a human, or, through inaction, allow a human to come to harm! 22:54:07 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-816-gb11031e: Indicate non-potion / player blame for beam potion effects (#7060). 10(26 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b11031e36bb3 22:54:07 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-817-gf960d9a: Ensure messages are always printed when chaos beams affect something. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 22+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f960d9a35c76 22:54:09 Grunt: you'd think that would result in more robot brain death 22:54:09 Grunt: what is a fat man is standing near some train tracks? 22:54:31 Grunt: due to the difficulty of predicting the consequences of their actions 22:54:31 Grunt: how does CBL work now, is it just confused movement? 22:54:44 mumra: it just summons a bunch of ball lightnings, which have confused movement. 22:55:00 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:55:06 This tends to mean that some or all of them blow up the next turn unless you're in an extremely open area. 22:55:48 Grunt: we could do something like use IOOD's projectile movement but randomise the velocity each turn instead 22:56:01 Bad idea: Potion of Cure Glow 22:56:04 this is pretty easy to do now 22:56:15 <|amethyst> bh: there's already a scroll 22:56:22 <|amethyst> bh: vuln does that 22:56:27 oh 22:56:32 |amethyst: i did not realise that! 22:56:33 I never thought of that. 22:56:34 Can we get them to randomise their aim relative to a target slightly each turn? 22:56:47 ....so that they jitter back and forth a bit as they home in on the target :) 22:56:50 oh, that reminds me of my bad idea to write a crawl bot in haskell 22:56:53 SamB: some robots do suffer confusion or brain damage from trouble complying with the laws! 22:56:57 Grunt: yeah, that should work 22:57:01 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:02 nrook: GFL. 22:57:08 <|amethyst> didn't someone do that? 22:57:14 what do crawl bots look like right now, anyway? I remember a year ago when I was following crawl, people were working on them 22:57:23 <|amethyst> rwbarton maybe? 22:57:24 the only one I've seen was a sack of lua 22:57:24 mumra: I'm not sure if you saw my original CBL rewrite, but it basically is an IOOD burst except more aimable. <_< 22:57:31 (also, the explosions are smaller in size) 22:57:32 It plays HOBe better than I do 22:57:47 Grunt: no didn't see that, i take it that's not in trunk? 22:57:49 bh: yeah I'd expect it'd be an utter failure at crawl, but it might be a success at getting me to learn haskell 22:57:50 Nope. 22:57:54 <|amethyst> nrook: https://github.com/rwbarton/rw 22:57:58 |amethyst: Potion of Bees. Drinking it releases a neutral killer bee 22:57:58 nrook: there is a hybrid (part machine part player) bot that holds a record 22:58:01 !lg * won min=dur 22:58:02 12360. parabolic the Conqueror (L27 HOBe), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2012-09-30 03:07:57, with 1837492 points after 55965 turns and 0:31:58. 22:58:12 It effectively panned out like a mass fireball, only with projectiles. 22:58:14 weknowmemes.com/2012/09/oprah-bees-gif/ 22:58:15 <|amethyst> nrook: I don't think it's anywhere near as functional as the lua bots yet but maybe I'm wrong 22:58:19 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:58:22 as far as pure bots go, xw has the best success rate, and rwbarton is working on rw in Haskell (which is the only non-lua bot I know of, it works via webtiles) 22:58:27 oh score 22:58:32 i.e. you'd get radius-1 explosions usually, radius-2 sometimes at high power. 22:58:37 ...instead of a 50% chance of 2 or 3 :b 22:58:37 though it is terrible at actually playing the game right now 22:58:44 i understand he has plans 22:58:51 also I think that repo is out of date 22:59:15 oh I was going to play with webtiles too, if only because I assumed there's a way to get crawl in "webtiles mode" where it produces data in an easier form to parse than ascii 22:59:26 <|amethyst> !tell rwbarton nrook is interested in Haskell botting 22:59:27 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rwbarton know. 22:59:29 yeah, that is the idea 22:59:31 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:31 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:59:32 <|amethyst> nrook: exactly 22:59:43 would it be bad to add a bad wand? 22:59:52 Define "bad wand". 22:59:56 Hurts the user 23:00:05 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:10 Generally speaking, you're aiming a wand at something. 23:00:21 what would be the point? 23:00:28 We have bad scrolls, bad potions, bad jewelry. The worst we have for wands is what -- random? 23:00:31 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:00:35 the worst we have for wands is haste 23:00:36 or polymorph 23:00:46 ie, haste launched at a threatening enemy 23:01:14 nrook: I did once intentionally haste a lich while playing as a Chei follower. It did not work out as I had planned 23:01:19 a better "trap" wand would probably be one that would cause _any_ enemy to become threatening, not just an already reasonable one 23:01:29 but I'm not sure it's worthwhile 23:01:39 <|amethyst> nrook: you could either connect to the webtiles server and talk to it via json over websockets, or talk to crawl directly via json over Unix-domain sockets 23:01:49 bh: haha 23:01:55 <|amethyst> nrook: the former lets you play on public servers, so I believe that's what rwbarton did 23:02:04 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:06 "Oh yeah, I'll make him fast and then Chei him to death. What could go wrong?" 23:02:28 <|amethyst> nrook: but I guess you could use the latter if you wanted to be able to play locally without python, tornado, etc 23:02:46 I think the best option would probably just be to steal rwbarton's interface at this point, no need to reinvent that part---it's not the interesting part 23:03:38 "Work around a reactive-banana bug" - this is the best commit message, thank you mr barton 23:04:49 mumra: so where's this projectile code of yours? :) 23:04:56 <|amethyst> Reactive banana bug: http://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/4-30/2nxCTm5rbA-18.png 23:05:03 Grunt: just tweaking some things (it's still slightly buggy) 23:05:08 gonna push it to a branch 23:05:15 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:23 mumra, nibbled to death by software bugs. 23:05:27 !lg * vmsg~~nibbled 23:05:28 No games for * (vmsg~~nibbled). 23:05:30 :( 23:06:08 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 23:07:24 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:29 -!- nrook has left ##crawl-dev 23:09:17 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-818-gfeaa31f: Constify. 10(in the future, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=feaa31fc8f2f 23:10:09 ??power breath 23:10:09 I don't have a page labeled power_breath in my learndb. 23:10:13 ??breathe power 23:10:13 I don't have a page labeled breathe_power in my learndb. 23:10:56 dolorous, still bringing you the future of crawl development :b 23:11:06 ??primal wave 23:11:07 primal wave[1/1]: A merfolk aquamancer spell that does a lot of damage, creates water, and knocks you back. No longer able to hurl the PC into deep water. :( 23:11:16 Grunt: dolorous is a bot, right? 23:11:30 The jury's still out on that one. 23:11:55 We might have given a commit bit to a cron job? 23:11:57 bh: I found a feature he added 23:12:26 SamB, :| 23:12:42 it is the short names for muts that show up on % 23:14:47 SamB: what's the commit id? 23:15:25 I included it in my commit message earlier didn't I ... 23:15:31 -!- marcmagus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:15:41 %git 0.7.0-a0-1288-g9ea063a 23:15:41 03dolorous * 0.7.0-a0-1288-g9ea063a: Implement Mantis 1384. 10(3 years, 1 month ago, 3 files, 240+ 185-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9ea063afbb74 23:18:02 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:18:10 bh: btw did you see 23:18:12 !mantis 7063 23:18:12 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7063 23:18:21 it seems to be back again 23:18:45 i can barely understand some of the patches dolorous makes 23:19:20 like he'll push a patch that just puts an underscore in front of something 23:20:08 -!- Akett has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:21:30 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:23:08 <|amethyst> it's part of the DCSS coding conventions to use underscores for "internal" functions (that are only used in the same file; i.e. static) 23:24:27 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-819-g1dfb0ea: A blame prefix for monster tentacles. 10(58 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1dfb0eac1724 23:26:07 Grunt: ok i'm gonna push this ... 23:26:14 * Grunt pushes mumra. 23:26:21 * mumra resists! 23:26:26 * Grunt pulls mumra! 23:26:37 mumra: you were supposed to stand your ground 23:26:58 * Grunt tramples SamB! 23:27:05 * SamB stands his ground 23:29:25 <|amethyst> mumra: pushing to a branch you mean? 23:29:44 * Grunt roars! Grunt tramples |amethyst! 23:29:45 <_< 23:29:45 MarvinPA: yeah, I got a !tell about it 23:29:54 MarvinPA: I hate this bug so much 23:30:01 bh: it just... bugs you...? 23:30:07 <|amethyst> I ask because I've got a commit to push to trunk but don't want to make you rebase when mine is just one commit 23:30:16 Grunt: I really dislike capriciously murdering characters 23:30:33 It sucks to lose a good character when it's your fault. It really sucks when it's a bug 23:30:33 |amethyst, trunk is probably a few commits ahead of where mumra started anyway :) 23:30:36 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:52 i just rebased anyway 23:31:11 |amethyst: yeah i'm pushing to a branch anyway 23:31:21 bh: well, I showed ??bh[2] 23:31:23 this seems to work pretty well but i'm like 99% sure there will be bugs 23:31:30 and possibly memory leaks and all kinds of nastiness 23:31:43 since i'm trying stuff here that i haven't done in c++ before 23:32:20 kilobyte: |amethyst: stand by to valgrind and such 23:32:52 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:33:05 Grunt: branch movement-behaviours 23:33:40 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:33:49 and anyone else who wants to take a look, i'd be grateful for any comments on the code structure and the dozens of ways i'm probably blowing everything up 23:34:35 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-820-g50c72be: Don't claim self-targetted apportation is suicidal (#6937). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=50c72be1611b 23:34:35 New branch created: movement-behaviours (1 commit) 23:34:35 03mumra 07[movement-behaviours] * 0.13-a0-820-g012b488: Movement behaviours implementation for IOOD and Boulder Beetles 10(3 minutes ago, 19 files, 1847+ 1315-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=012b488cbf4f 23:35:46 |amethyst: hehe 23:38:18 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:38:32 i'm not happy with certain things about the structure and i think it can be improved but in part this was an experiment to see if it was possible to attach OO-structured behaviours to monsters 23:38:40 without having to subclass monster itself 23:38:57 -!- theboxx has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:40:16 (the behaviours are actually attached to actor, the idea being i can reuse most of boulder movement for player boulder form) 23:41:46 (but i realise it's probably bad to have the extra #include in actor.h so i possibly need to achieve this in a slightly different way) 23:44:27 -!- tgcid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:43 -!- AriaB has quit [] 23:45:04 mumra: what's with the store.cc change? 23:45:35 oops 23:45:47 -!- Blade- is now known as Blade-afk 23:45:52 want to retract and push a different commit instead? 23:45:56 we can grant a do-over 23:46:02 could also just push a fix 23:46:09 <|amethyst> mumra: also, that commit makes pretty significant changes to the sln file, not all of which you might have intented 23:46:14 <|amethyst> s/ented/ended/ 23:46:26 elliott: the thing about that is that it would pollute "git blame" 23:46:29 <|amethyst> oh 23:46:35 <|amethyst> it's just end-of-line stuff 23:46:41 better than polluting git pull 23:47:28 well i can probably squash when merging 23:47:42 |amethyst: the sln changes aren't actually significant, but they are unneccesary 23:48:09 oh is that sLn 23:48:16 I thought you said sin 23:48:23 |amethyst: one is just because i saved it in a different VS version than xFleury, the other is just profiling settings since i used the profiler 23:48:25 <|amethyst> mumra: yeah, I saw huge swaths of changes but it turns out they're all just ctrl-ms 23:48:39 <|amethyst> mumra: ah, I did notice the profile thing 23:48:56 |amethyst: oh, i only see 1 line changed, 3 added 23:49:30 elliott: i changed store.cc when i was debugging 'cos i noticed debugging was really slow and a lot of time was being spent in ASSERT_VALIDITY 23:49:40 ah 23:49:47 since it does a huge amount of stuff every time a hashtable entry is read or changed 23:50:04 but i didn't mean to commit it heh 23:54:26 <|amethyst> It would be nice if the "delete this" could be avoided 23:54:48 03mumra 07[movement-behaviours] * 0.13-a0-821-g8d060a0: Revert change to store.cc 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8d060a0b870c 23:54:48 03mumra 07[movement-behaviours] * 0.13-a0-822-g8033791: Revert changes to MSVC .sln file 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=80337917d632 23:54:50 <|amethyst> since that means you'll get bad behaviour if you accidentally make one of these objects without using new 23:55:10 |amethyst: they're only created from a single place so it's easy to see they all use new 23:55:21 but yeah it's not quite optimal 23:55:22 <|amethyst> I did something similar in fineffs, but I keep hoping someone will figure out how to fix it up to avoid that 23:56:24 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:56:37 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:56:50 is there a way to assert for whether an object was created with new? 23:57:43 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:59:35 <|amethyst> no