00:00:54 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:07 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-571-g28ae32b (34) 00:05:19 Door not surrounded by walls in Lair. by CKyle 00:10:39 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-571-g28ae32b (34) 00:12:51 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 00:14:16 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:14:16 -!- ckyle_ is now known as ckyle 00:16:35 -!- nht has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 00:20:03 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:15 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 00:20:26 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 00:22:20 -!- radiosilence has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:06 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:27:47 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:27:54 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:44 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:37 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-571-g28ae32b 00:35:19 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:36:22 -!- Sprite has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:46:42 -!- MDesigner has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:48:41 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:06:36 -!- fbafelipe has quit [Quit: Saindo] 01:06:42 -!- Archibald has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:10:45 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:15:51 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:16:05 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:16:49 -!- Nomi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:17:02 -!- eb has quit [] 01:18:17 -!- absolute1o is now known as absolutego_ 01:19:41 -!- absolutego has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:22:32 -!- Unflexed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:30 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:27:48 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:30:17 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 01:39:49 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:40:07 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:43:04 -!- dupo has quit [] 01:44:13 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:46:48 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:51 ??min_delay 01:46:52 min delay[1/2]: Min delay for a melee weapon is min(7, floor(base delay / 2)), or 5 for a sabre. To achieve min delay, you need your weapon skill to be at least max(base delay, 2*base delay - 14), plus 1 if odd, or 14 skill for a sabre. 01:48:59 -!- tcjc has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:51:05 -!- Butz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:53:25 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:30 ??lair 01:53:31 bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:53:31 lair[1/3]: Accessed from the main dungeon somewhere between levels 8 and 13. Eight levels deep. The lair is full of "natural" critters such as rats, snakes, and yaks. One of Swamp/Shoals and one of Snake/Spider appears there, as well as Slime, and there is a relatively hard vault on Lair:8. The petting zoo of Crawl, if petting zoos had hydras. 01:53:33 !messages 01:53:33 (1/1) hangedman said (1h 58m 39s ago): !vault lost_library 01:53:38 !vault lost_library 01:53:39 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/7790934 01:54:08 !seen hangedman 01:54:09 I last saw HangedMan at Thu Mar 14 13:04:34 2013 UTC (7w 1d 17h 49m 35s ago) parting ##crawl-dev with message 'chanpart'. 01:54:34 !tell HangedMan and? 01:54:35 bh: OK, I'll let hangedman know. 01:54:57 ??lair[2] 01:54:57 lair[2/3]: you don't need resists in lair, people. it's just 8 levels of xp and items. 01:55:01 ??lair[3] 01:55:01 lair[3/3]: DO THIS BEFORE ORC WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU. SERIOUSLY. 01:55:22 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:01 if he said it, it must be true. (Well, okay, not really; I'm probably even on record disagreeing with him at some point, possibly I was even right!) 01:56:34 !tell HangedMan I can't tell if you're saying my vault is too easy, or I copied your shtick or something else 01:56:35 bh: OK, I'll let hangedman know. 01:56:54 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:58:25 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:06:37 -!- contak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:10:02 -!- Ark is now known as Guest60051 02:14:21 Hrm, it doesn't strike me as desirable for tab-combat (which does throwing) to throw anything into water.. 02:14:25 which...it definitely does. 02:19:37 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:24:50 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:24:53 -!- Cryp71c_ is now known as Cryp71c 02:25:17 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:57 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:02 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:20 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 02:39:16 -!- Herbert_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:41:20 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 02:45:31 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:48:15 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:50:36 -!- Suga_H has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:56:26 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:05 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:59:43 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:01 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:34 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:01 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:20 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:24 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:33:37 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 03:39:31 -!- BizmarkRibeye has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 03:41:06 -!- Nareusm has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:50:48 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:59:03 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01:52 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:09:20 Cryp71c_: even without tab, a warning that your items will be lost would be good 04:10:56 doesn't matter as much for mulchable stuff, but real weapons are more precious. You don't want to lose returning items, especially LCS. 04:13:48 -!- radiosilence has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:16:11 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: rivs is afk (probably sleeping)] 04:20:30 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:21:48 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:21:51 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 04:25:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:20 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:28:42 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:28:47 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:28:56 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 04:32:16 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:32:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:40:32 -!- noobcanoe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:51:00 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:17:55 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:02 -!- Unflexed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:40:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:52:22 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:53 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:50 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:26 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:37 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:22:39 No more eel pools? =/ 06:22:53 I actually found that layout an interesting challenge pre-Lairish 06:23:24 Since it tended to require a fair bit of caution and often approaching from multiuple angles 06:26:21 it requires a lot of caution and some tactics, yeah. but the overwhelming opinion (myself included) is that those levels are unfun 06:26:50 the problem isn't with eel pools, it's that you could get levels (several in a game even) chock full of them 06:27:52 Well, I think the reason those levels requires caution is BECAUSE the density of eels was so high. A lone pool or two generally is no issue, I think, since you can avoid it. 06:28:20 Unless it happens to be literally blocking somewhere you want to be 06:28:39 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:28:46 those levels might be more bearable if you could exclude an entire pool with one keystroke, or just autoexclude water tiles or something 06:29:38 Autoexcluding connected water tiles might be a handy thing to be able to do, yes 06:30:26 so is there a reason why axes are magenta now 06:30:35 read the commit log 06:30:51 (this channel should have a bot which says that automatically) 06:31:08 I'm not sure the commit log explains this one that well 06:31:17 At least magenta seems an oddly loud choice for a whole weapon class 06:31:22 ah 06:31:43 ok then, the reason is that its nice to differentiate weapon colours, magenta isnt really used anywhere, and bright colours are reserved for artifacts 06:31:55 so the reason axes are magenta is because it was available 06:32:14 Do other weapon types have their own unique colors? 06:32:22 what were axes before? I thought they were dark grey 06:32:32 yeah darkgrey is not allowed 06:32:36 I thought they were all the same, to be honest >.> 06:32:43 oh 06:32:44 i think other weapon types have their own colours 06:32:48 if theres any overlap it should change 06:32:50 yeah I'm pretty sure they do 06:33:13 Oh, is this just for the glyph? 06:33:13 this also is the same reason for the helmet colourc hange 06:33:21 And not the actual name text of them? 06:36:10 i thought that weapon name colour stuff was removed a while ago... 06:36:32 It might be! For some reason I thought that's what the commit here was referring to 06:37:12 I'm just talking about glyphs, weapon names have always appeared independent of type for me 06:37:16 btw i was thinking about skald spells that might be more fun, i have some ideas. maybe i should write them up somewhere. it includes a possible level 1 spell :o 06:37:38 What's it do? 06:37:52 mini-berserk. You get one really strong, fast attack, then you pass out 06:38:31 Isn't the speed of the attack irrelevant if you pass out immediately afterward :P 06:38:44 what i was thinking of, is replace the brand spells with a level 1 buff that "infuses" your attacks with magic. each melee attack takes 1 mp, and does bonus damage (probably a flat amount, maybe based on spell power). 0 mp means the buff is still up, but no bonus damage 06:38:56 this wouldn't be a brand btw 06:39:12 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:35 Hmmmm.... actually somewhat similar to something I had been thinking about for a reaver revival 06:39:57 Though that one involved AoE :P 06:40:09 (And was obviously much higher level) 06:40:59 I think it sounds like it has potential 06:41:10 another idea (less good, but maight be interesting) is a buff that gives you the old guardian spirit effect 06:41:16 that is, you lose mp instead of hp, until you're out of mp 06:42:29 the last idea is copied a bit from sil's song of slaying. when the buff is active, every kill you get gives you +1 slaying. in sil, that buff goes down while you're not killing stuff. in crawl maybe it should too, or maybe it should just reset when you recast the spell 06:42:37 with duration being influenced a lot by spell power 06:43:18 I think I might like the second option more, since the first seems to overlap moreso with berserk 06:43:27 In terms of 'must keep killing or stuff gets worse' 06:43:31 anyway you can see from this, I'm trying to go for a design that's focused on killing stuff, uses buff spells, but tries to discourage re-casting too much 06:43:38 and yeah it's a bit berserk-like 06:43:42 which is good 06:44:27 also these ideas try to make mp more of a resource for skalds, currently it doesn't work as nicely for them because its all durational stuff 06:44:33 I don't think the guardian spirit spell is a bad idea, but if we're thinking about Skald's earlygame, to some degree, I feel like it mightn't do a whole lot there 06:44:37 Since you don't have much mp at all 06:44:50 right 06:45:20 it would probably be something you use a bit later 06:45:24 or in emergencies 06:45:27 Yeah, I guess 06:46:41 anyway, that's 3 spell ideas, I don't think they're all equally good but I think they would mostly be better than what skalds have now. I wonder if shroud still has a place 06:47:15 Well, shroud is one of their best early spells at the moment 06:47:20 yeah 06:47:23 So it sort of seems a shame for them to lose it 06:47:41 And it does kind of what the guardian spirit thing does, except much better at low levels 06:48:46 what i'd love is a book that only has one buff like that which you want to recast, and the rest of it focused on stuff that is less passive, or works like that "mp infusion" spell idea 06:49:08 i think the class would wind up feeling a lot more "active" and offensively focused, which is fun 06:50:03 Possibly, yes. But a lot of spells in the current book actually are quite good, but just less-so early on, which was the more noticable issue 06:50:22 the book itself isn't the problem, it's just not something to design a starting kit around imo 06:50:46 Would this idea be a seperate book for them, then? 06:50:51 And not a replacement to the book itself? 06:50:55 I guess so 06:51:07 Since war chants is actually something really nice to find on another background 06:51:40 probably bad idea: reverse sublimation, converts mp to hp. less efficient than regeneration, but faster 06:51:45 Probably has to be one of the starting books most widely desired by OTHER classes 06:53:21 also an idea to make tukima's dance more fun: have it create a magical clone of your weapon which fights as a summon. you dont need to juggle equipment. limited to 1 at a time 06:53:52 I was actually planning to implement something like that myself 06:54:14 Plus I was thinking that you meleeing things would heal and extend duration on that one dancing weapon you had 06:54:23 (With maybe a shorter starting duration otherwise) 06:55:11 i wonder a bit if it would mesh will with a hypothetical "new skald". i think it would be fun though, and i think it gives enough new ideas for a new book 06:55:13 Though I hadn't planned to make it clone your weapon, but simply limit it to one in the same manner you had now 06:55:31 Although that might still be a good idea 06:56:17 And I had actually thought about sticking a revised tukima's into the reaver book, too >.> 06:56:30 Since they already have a hex component 07:00:20 Though I seem to have accumulated a dozen projects before I get to reavers (still hoping for 0.13, though, but we'll see) 07:02:17 On a different note, how intrinsically terrible an idea do you think it would be to have clouds dropped on the player actually affect them immediately (as they effectively do for monsters), instead of doing nothing at all for a turn? 07:02:34 eh, new reaver should still be melee+conj imo 07:03:03 i think instant cloud effects on players could work but you'd need to rebalance some stuff 07:03:06 Well, a lot of it was. But some of those had a hex component, too (I figured dazzling spray was a good fit, for example) 07:03:13 catoblepas kind of depend on the fact you can move away 07:03:15 Since that supports melee 07:03:44 Well, catoblepas are sort of in an awkward place, I think. With one turn warning, they basically never petrify you at all unless you're completely pinned, but with no warning, they may be kind of strong 07:04:12 even with rare petrification its nice that they force you to move aside 07:04:33 It's a little silly that, say, the ring of flames from Asmodeus can never actually hit you even if you walk around kiting him in melee range for 100 turns 07:04:49 (Not an issue in practice, since he stops and casts stuff, obviously) 07:04:55 if they had instant petrification clouds, maybe they could "get ready to breathe" and then shoot the next turn, targeting the spot you were at in the previous turn 07:05:27 I had been experimenting with giving a cloud ring to something else that DIDN'T have so many reasons to pause, and it was more noticable there 07:05:39 (ie: it doesn't actually work in practice) 07:06:04 might be nice if it did work, yeah 07:06:13 Like, no matter how fast it is, it can't actually force the cloud to ever affect you unless you get pinned 07:06:19 Which seems kind of odd for something with a cloud aura 07:06:23 i'd avoid another ring of flames enemy though. some other cloud effect instead 07:06:39 It was actually meph (yes, it might be a terrible idea, but it was an experiment) 07:06:43 haha 07:06:50 But in practice it basically just never did anything 07:06:55 if you were a really bad person it would be ring of miasma. never melee that enemy ever!! 07:07:01 Yes, miasma would be horrible 07:07:02 meph is so easy to resist anyway 07:07:16 Yeah, I think meph is probably too resistable at high xl, to be honest 07:07:22 Since the duration is also really low on players vs. monsters 07:07:50 It's only 1-2 turns, and since new clouds don't affect you at all, if you stumble anywhere, even if the monster follows you're safe and recover again 07:07:55 ring of poison cloud? you could give it safely to a pan demon 07:08:07 or an undead if it sticks to undead branches 07:08:18 Yes, this was actually an idea for revamping rotting hulks 07:08:33 I thought it could play interesting in a branch where most enemies were immune to it 07:08:48 At least enough for me to implement and try playing around with 07:08:56 The end result is that it basically does nothing 95% of the time, though 07:09:49 Like, even when I paired one up with some ghouls or bone dragons, it rarely seemed to inconvenience me 07:10:25 yeah thats the problem with melee effects, and poison too. ranged attacks work so much better in the end 07:10:28 (Which is how I started to think about clouds affecting players immediately) 07:10:44 even if it affected you immediately, you just need reaching or rpois 07:10:50 btw do you think these skald ideas are worthwhile enough that i should write them down somewhere? 07:10:55 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:12 Well, I thought that might be okay, to be honest. Wanting to swap rPois or clarity, or something. Even if that nullifies that, it's still some kind of tactical option. 07:11:22 And sure, I think they all are worth writing down 07:11:52 aside from actually implementing the spells, the main difficult thing missing right now is fleshing out the rest of the spell books 07:11:56 I have been trying to sytematically go through most boring monsters and make them less boring (starting with Crypt at the moment), but rotting hulks have been difficult to come up with anything working 07:12:13 dont be afraid to remove monsters, one interesting monster is worth two boring ones 07:12:23 I do want to change the name though, since I think it's continually misleading when they don't actually rot you 07:12:31 (I had called them 'plague shamblers' instead) 07:12:36 nice 07:12:47 will it teleport and shoot lightning bolts? :P 07:12:58 Haha, is that a name from something else without me realizing? 07:13:02 quake 07:13:22 Huh. I did not know. 07:13:52 the shambler is a big yeti thing that teleports in and shoots lightning at you, or tries to claw you to death. and it resists rocket damage, which is practically the main weapon in quake 07:14:05 (but it goes down to the super nail gun in a few seconds) 07:14:17 And yeah, I COULD remove them, but I would rather come up with some interesting angle for them if I could 07:14:29 Disease melee is not very interesting though, even if their stats were buffed to something noticable 07:15:16 I still think the ring of meph could be at least somewhat interesting if the underlying game mechanics allowed it to work. Though I am sure it would also annoy some people terribly (maybe not an inherantly bad thing? ^^; ) 07:15:44 ring of meph++ 07:15:57 especially if it was not meph but something else 07:16:01 i'm more worried about "don't melee" being a hard counter... don't want to have too much stuff like that 07:16:23 kilobyte: Like what? Did you have something in mind? 07:16:25 you could make a monster painful to look at 07:17:00 I mean literally, a rN resistible LOS effect 07:17:17 evilmike: Well, isn't 'don't melee' also a pretty good counter to anything with a scary melee attack? 07:17:20 i think st had an idea once for a monster with a passive gaze attack like that. it would be like a very weak torment every turn 07:17:29 and this monster would be nasty in groups 07:17:38 My (implemented) idea for flayed ghosts is a LITTLE like that, I guess? 07:17:47 gaze attacks are cool too because you can invis against them 07:18:01 Well, it's not actually a gaze attack, but I suppose it still wouldn't work if it couldn't see you 07:18:11 what do flayed ghosts do now? 07:18:12 And they don't see invis 07:18:39 FR: sylph race, perma-invis 07:19:03 evilmike: melee only 07:19:06 Anyway, the idea was that they basically make you relive the torture they experienced in life, and it causes sympathetic wounds and such to open all all over you for mini-torment-esque damage, but the kicker is that the wounds aren't actually real, and vanish immediately if you kill the ghost or spend a few turns out of sight of it 07:19:16 @??flayed ghost 07:19:17 flayed ghost (05p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 42-78 | AC/EV: 0/14 | Dam: 30 | 07undead, 10doors, evil, lev | Res: 06magic(58), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 721 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 07:19:20 Complete with blood splatter effects that vanish when the effect ends 07:19:33 nice 07:20:16 i just had a thought... if a monser is so horrible that *you* seeing it causes you damage, then technically, if you cast invisible on it, you should be protected :P 07:20:28 Haha 07:21:03 I actually took flayed ghosts off the haunt list afterward, since they could be extremely nasty when summoned by the monster version especially, because all the meat shields from it made it hard to either move away or kill it 07:21:11 heh 07:21:39 There was a giant spike in difficulty from the 'summoned a flayed ghost' vs. 'did not summon a flayed ghost' casts :P 07:22:33 just give flayed ghosts Dam: 30 (torment) and call it a day 07:22:47 I think this is cooler! 07:22:51 me too 07:24:02 I think rotting hulks are the main crypt monster at the moment that I think could use some work that I haven't given any to yet. Or at least not any that seems to work that well. 07:24:19 Then comes rebalancing the spawn list 07:24:58 if monster cause fear was implemented better, maybe eidolons would be good 07:25:10 I did buff them a decent bit and plan to stick them in there 07:25:31 (Fear is also more likely to work, even though they spam it less often, so less screen flashing :P) 07:25:48 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:26:26 Any rotting hulk / plague shambler ideas welcome, incidentally! 07:27:09 evilmike: i feel like monster cause fear would be better if it just always worked 07:27:40 eh, MR checks are fine, it just needs to be balanced against the expected MR of players at tha tlevel 07:28:35 It is at least BETTER on that front now 07:29:30 what if plague shamblers left nasty miasma corpses? start at 1 square, but expand to something potentially dangerous. so you can get out of the way, but you might be in trouble if its a corridor... 07:29:38 might be another bad idea... 07:30:03 evilmike: i was thinking it'd be cool if they were, instead of ghoul-variants, big piles of rotting corpse parts that are constantly falling off 07:30:19 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:30:54 could go dig out swarms for animated body part swarms... 07:31:36 evilmike: Hmmm... I had thought about exploding into meph or something when they died, but the slowly-expanding idea of something nastier sounds potentially interesting 07:31:48 Since exploding into miasma would just be a 'never kill this thing in melee ever' business 07:31:57 i think the real issue is we don't have anything good between meph/pois and miasma 07:32:01 yeah thats why i would want it to start at 1 square 07:32:35 The irony is that hostile shamblers with ring of meph were way more effective against allied living monsters than they were against the player. Since the clouds DID affect them immediately, and for a lot longer. 07:32:39 miasma isn't really poison, it just has poison added on because it's the worst thing in the world 07:32:44 it's basically gas that rots your face off 07:32:52 evilmike: i mean in terms of 'gross stuff' clouds 07:33:02 ah 07:33:05 an abil damage cloud would be cool 07:33:11 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:31 then maybe make miasma be abil damage instead of pois :) 07:33:46 I had though a little of the idea of them inflicting a 'plague' status on you that did random short-term bad things for a while, including short-term confusion and weakness and anything else that felt appropriate 07:34:07 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:34:11 confusion would be more debilitating than any of those other things probably 07:34:24 Yes, I imagine it would be, though I think short-term burst of it are okay 07:34:25 its best to keep everything at the same level, or else players will only care about the worst of the bunch 07:34:32 random effects are sort of not good 07:34:35 My main concern was an interface one, I think 07:34:43 In terms of message spam when resting stuff off 07:35:08 Though I had not actually implemented this one yet. I'd been at the brainstorming stage again after plan 1 didn't work well in practice 07:35:18 what about making it 'zerkitis' but for symptoms 07:35:27 so you swing your sword and it triggers a coughing spasm 07:35:39 and gives you fatigue 07:35:46 and while you're fatigued, you won't have a new fit 07:36:02 (ps, we should really make fatigue be a slaying malus or something...) 07:36:11 Was this coughing spasm basically just a short-term paralysis? 07:36:26 DracoOmega: i'd do it as stun/daze, not paralysis... 07:36:37 can't act, but no defense penalties 07:36:37 Well, I just mean in terms of 'skip a turn or two' 07:36:40 Yeah 07:36:52 it's an important difference... i think paralyze got such a bad rap because of the defense penalties 07:37:04 not acting was often totally survivable 07:37:41 i'm going to put my skald ideas on the wiki. is it ok if i just delete the whole page and start over, which dates from the crusader era? 07:37:45 yes 07:37:48 i cant remember if we care about this stuff 07:38:00 evilmike: yes! 07:38:08 I think I actually like the 'expanding cloud upon death' idea most, at present 07:38:16 Since it uses existing mechanics in a new way 07:38:33 Rather than inventing a multi-layed one for a rare mob that is not a major threat necessarily 07:38:37 yeah 07:38:50 Like, new mechanics are fine if they will themselves have more impact 07:39:23 But some of the 'plague with various symptoms under certain conditions' is a lot of stuff for something that may ultimately have low impact 07:39:44 DracoOmega: for random sickness fits what about: daze (20% chance no-act, no def penalty), chills (temporary dex=0), weakness (temporary str=0), migraines (temporary int=0), vomiting (temporary nausea) 07:39:45 what is the source for plague supposed to be? 07:39:57 you might want to read the last hour backlog 07:40:03 lots of design discussion 07:40:11 dpeg: Revamping rotting hulks, since they are currently boring and unnotable 07:40:14 also, keep in mind that plague could be reused in places: something with it melee brand, a nec spell, nec miscasts, tmut miscasts 07:40:17 mutation 07:40:18 I know but I have an awkward time doing so :| 07:40:30 DracoOmega: thanks. Good plan! 07:41:11 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 07:41:21 current nec miscasts kind of blow, particularly where tomb is concerned 07:41:55 same with tmut, it really needs non-bad-mut ones 07:42:10 'You accidentally genetically engineer a plague!' 07:42:16 thats what bad forms could help with 07:42:39 evilmike: does jiyva still iceform you :V 07:42:47 idk 07:43:54 evilmike: awesome Skald level 1 spell idea, btw. 07:44:40 DracoOmega's AoE idea would make a nice level 4 (or whatever) extension, would feel like a good progression 07:44:54 hmm, wonder if blink frog form would be a good badform: fast, defense buff, no equipment, blinking 07:45:12 Of course, if they do release slowly-expanding miasma upon death, then they actually WILL be associated with rot, and maybe they shouldn't be renamed after all? :P 07:45:23 your name is cool though 07:45:28 Heh, thanks 07:46:29 DracoOmega: you could go for ultimate kilobyte-rage-inducing pun and do this: http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/styles/media_gallery_image/public/images/ZombiesHulk101311.jpg 07:48:19 And now I am pondering implementation details :P 07:48:30 slowmove, rage, no slowness after rage 07:49:24 Haha, not for THAT 07:49:31 DracoOmega: hmm... what about making rotting hulks Cs that have become ghouls? trample! 07:49:31 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:50 But Cs don't trample? 07:49:55 Even before they started to rot 07:50:01 btw, why does the cloud effect has to come up after death? 07:50:15 Brogue's zombies carry their cloud, and it works well 07:50:15 DracoOmega: current ones don't! 07:50:21 none of them are undead, though 07:50:29 dpeg: I expect the clouds are also somewhat different than Crawl's miasma? 07:50:46 sure 07:50:47 brogue zombies are also awful because of the game's nausea implementation 07:51:04 it's basically an aura that forces you to mash keys 07:51:33 what I am saying is: it's much harder to come up with good gameplay for an after-death effect 07:51:40 evilmike: Actually, now that I think of it, with the delayed cloud issue at present, possibly it should start not just on top of the corpse but one square expanded from that, since even if it's under the player, it won't affect them at first 07:51:55 the point of the delayed cloud proposal is to force you to avoid it, not to actually affect you 07:52:16 evilmike: I see but it will be hard to make that work, imo 07:52:19 could make rotting hulks burst into not just a cloud, but also all of what they ate 07:52:34 chunks everywhere 07:52:35 kill it and suddenly there's up to a dozen undead, in addition to the cloud 07:52:40 and yes, chunks :) 07:52:41 the game my sister is coding for has zombie through their bowels at you :) 07:52:57 s/through/throw/ 07:55:46 Probably should also make their melee more significant, so that if you're pinned in, you don't just ignore them until last without much consequence 07:55:50 what about making them huge HP, no regen, can't see their HP - each time they lose an HP, they have a random chance to pop open, spraying undead and chunks in the direction that attack came from. from that point on, they begin to radiate miasma 07:56:18 hopefully, the undead pin the player 07:56:33 however, tele to get away before miasma always remains an option 07:57:49 if we want to make it meaner, have the stomach contents be weighted to slowmove, normal attack, constricting undead body parts 07:59:00 the idea i was proposing would have made it easy to avoid any clouds, that was the whole point 07:59:09 Do we want a monster that's a challenge 1 on 1, or are we content if the monster is mostly relevant when other are around? 07:59:12 for what its worth, i hate anything that actually inflicts you with miasma like that 07:59:22 except death drakes, those are my best friends 07:59:49 evilmike: it'd buy you at least two rounds before the miasma reaches you, i think that's reasonable 07:59:50 dpeg: I think this works fine for the latter 08:00:01 Eronarn: yeah 08:00:09 And we can stick some as an option in ghoul packs, maybe 08:00:18 -!- Zauren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:41 the number of spawned undead could be tweaked depending on how often we wanted to have the player end up pinned next to miasma 08:01:30 the actual undead, since it would contain random zombies/skeletons, could introduce nice randomness (like suddenly a fast undead being next to you, or a trampling one showing up behind you) 08:01:33 -!- thighhigh has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 08:01:51 if you just want to make players evade certain regions (perhaps on short notice), you could achieve that with an announced fog generator: "The air starts to smell horrendously.", "Foul gases seem to spread." Miasma effect. 08:02:08 dpeg: only useful in vaults... 08:02:08 Eronarn: Incidentally, how exactly is this thing supposed to physically contain multiple monsters large enough to trample? 08:02:36 Eronarn: could work in a branch where all native monsters are immune. 08:03:06 DracoOmega: i think it would be hilarious if you killed something and suddenly three elephants and two dragons popped out 08:03:10 it'd be a branch-wide effect, making sure you'd have to be flexible about positioning throughout 08:03:43 dpeg: remember, clouds mess with travel and autoexcludes - it's not like webs, where you can just autotravel through the level the same way 08:03:57 (btw, the way I imagine it, you would see the soon-to-be gas vent indicated on the floor, so there is nothing mysterious about it) 08:04:24 sure, shouldn't use it for dungeon 08:04:42 and if you limit the clouds to more or less static placements - rather than letting them waft freely albeit stochastically - then you may as well use stuff with auras 08:05:58 The crucial differences are: (a) when the effect triggers, randomly vs on kill, (b) whether the cloud source can move/be lured 08:06:08 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Client Quit] 08:06:14 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:06:34 DracoOmega: also, for shades of catoblepas: you could make them be covered in cysts that burst randomly when hit, and spray a thin cone towards the damage source; that way you can always step out, unless you're surrounded 08:07:03 If you have a hulk that creates a no-go area after death, you can plan ahead and lure him somewhere. If you have miasma spout from the floor at random, you cannot. Both will work, it's a question of what we want. 08:07:06 the catlobe mechanic actually works really well, so i don't think we should hesitate to reuse it on some monster 08:07:23 and miasma would be a good candidate because you don't want to spend even one turn in there because slowness 08:08:23 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:09:18 Should make a monster that conjures lines of walls and make them come with a catoplepas :P 08:09:32 DracoOmega: spriggan illusionist! 08:09:36 unboring beetle? 08:10:06 An interesting situation where a monster creating a corridor to stick the player in is actually HARMFUL to you 08:10:40 DracoOmega: ooh... are you familiar with the Maze spell from D&D? 08:10:52 Not sure 08:11:13 So I guess that means I'm not 'familiar' in that case, even if I may have very vague recollections 08:11:29 it banishes the target to an extraplanar maze - how long they take to get out depends on their intelligence 08:12:26 it would be *super cool* to have an illusionist monster that makes you think you're surrounded by a maze, so you can't move in certain directions 08:12:44 Incidentally, I have code for temporary terrain modification already written, so walls that disappear again would be simple 08:13:01 (Though those would obviously be 'real') 08:14:16 something that just totally warps your display, and your movement/targeting capabilities, but still leaves you facing the same threats 08:16:14 if it were relatively long-lasting, but ended when you killed the illusionist, that would present some very interesting challenges 08:16:34 and if you got mazed inside e.g. the abyss... 08:17:31 Hmmm.... it now occurs to me, if clouds don't normally affect the player on the turn they're layed... how come fog machines do? 08:17:37 Like, code-wise, what's going on differently? 08:20:03 huh, petrify resist is just based on XL? weird 08:21:47 Well, stuff that checks monster HD usually checks player XL 08:25:11 DracoOmega: so looking at the cpp code, the only place players have clouds applied is when they react at the start of a turn... 08:25:25 Yes, so I thought 08:25:50 Wait, START? 08:25:53 I thought it was END? 08:25:53 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:32 er, whatever 08:26:34 also, i bet it's this: 08:26:36 run_environment_effects(); 08:26:36 if (!crawl_state.game_is_arena()) 08:26:36 _player_reacts(); 08:26:42 Well, the difference between start and end is significant here 08:27:47 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 08:27:59 Okay, so fog machines are processed BEFORE cloud checks, but monsters afterward 08:28:00 hmm... run_environment_effects *is* responsible for placing lava and mist clouds 08:28:18 i don't know if cloud generators otherwise respond to 'dungeon_events.fire_event(DET_TURN_ELAPSED);' 08:28:40 if so... the player is getting moved by input, then the cloud is getting spawned, then it's having the player react 08:29:02 that strikes me as a bug, if so 08:29:15 Fog machines would function pretty horribly if they didn't affect the player immediately 08:29:26 Since they're sparse enough that you could almost always navigate through safely 08:29:40 There would be SOME adjacent tile without a cloud 08:30:14 DracoOmega: i'd rather see us make clouds thicker, or make all clouds trigger instantly, or give clouds a 'spawned under monster' trigger than there be a disparity 08:30:42 Honestly making them all trigger instantly seems to make the most 'sense' to me in some ways 08:30:51 Even if this would require a few tweaks to other effects 08:31:34 Like, swamp drakes being able to confuse you on the turn they breathe is probably non-terrible. Honestly, I think meph is too unlikely to confuse the player at high xl anyway, perhaps. 08:31:36 DracoOmega: what about making clouds have an effect for spawning under you, and an effect for staying in it? (they already vary in effect depending on how fast you move through them, so this isn't unprecedented...) 08:31:57 then tweak some messaging to make it clearer that this is what is going on 08:32:08 Well, catoblepas breath still taking a turn to kick in sounds like a sensible idea that wouldn't need much explanation, I think 08:32:26 Flame/freeze/poison breaths already LOOK like they affect you on the turn the clouds are layed, since the breath has impact damage 08:32:29 DracoOmega: 'The blast of calcifying dust hits you!' 'The calcifying dust settles on your skin.' 08:32:39 just a tweak like that 08:32:45 Could just take the impact damage away if the cloud itself was hitting you the first turn 08:33:02 And very little change would be noticed, I think (it would do a little more damage, but that's all) 08:33:16 Death drake breath is the other more obviously affected bit, I guess? 08:33:22 DracoOmega: i think there's something to be said for having the cloud do a lesser effect when it spawns underneath you 08:33:28 (we could also apply this to monsters) 08:34:24 I think there may be implementation issues with telling whether a cloud just spawned under a monster? 08:34:25 this would also neatly handle the case of running away from a flaming cloud or the like... say, it only singes you if you're running 08:35:38 I am on the fence regarding whether death drake breath affecting (and possibly slowing) immediately is an overly bad thing or not 08:35:44 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:05 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:13 DracoOmega: i suppose that's true... could just add a flag to the cloud struct with whether it's a new cloud though 08:36:32 Yes, but what if the cloud is new, but then a monster steps into it? 08:36:49 Just because the cloud was made that turn doesn't mean it was made under something at the time 08:36:50 DracoOmega: but then we know the monster stepped in :) 08:36:59 Is it a seperate codepath there? 08:37:10 I mean, it obviously could be done SOMEHOW, but I mean without any big structural rewrites 08:37:16 (I haven't looked at the associated code closely yet) 08:38:10 Also, probably miasma fog generators shouldn't not be able to slow you on their first turn, either 08:38:38 DracoOmega: hmm, i'm wrong - it looks like all of this stuff gets handled before the monster acts 08:39:12 So it checks clouds at the START of the monster turn and END of the player turn, yes? 08:39:25 Which is what leads to this assymetry 08:39:50 (Meaning catoblepas immediately petrify monsters too, I guess) 08:44:22 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:45:39 DracoOmega: yup 08:45:45 just checked to make sure 08:46:18 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:46:30 this is why rot demons don't stand in their own miasma all the time, i guess! 08:47:28 Well, it wouldn't affect them anyway 08:47:40 DracoOmega: spam messages 08:48:09 i guess this means a monster will never be affected by a cloud the first time it moves into it 08:48:12 -!- Wahaha has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:48:42 but this won't be immediately obvious, because typically it's only moving 08:48:51 so it then gets affected at the start of its turn 08:49:12 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Changing host] 08:49:57 DracoOmega: why does battlesphere call zappy() in aim_battlesphere()? It doesn't replicate the spell anyway. 08:50:29 hmm... i guess ring of flames wouldn't do anything while you're retreating, if it didn't leave a trail and just were 8 tiles! 08:50:33 for some spells, like Dazzling Spray, there's no associated zap (zaps should die, BTW), and there's nice uninitialized memory access 08:50:38 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:51:06 DracoOmega: this may or may not crash, as shown by that elusive crash on Windows on 0.12.0 but not current trunk 08:51:22 Odd, since I hadn't heard of a crash in all that time before that 08:51:37 In any case, I think the point was to replicate the properties of the spell it is firing after, so it can see what you hit with it 08:51:42 Since this may vary based on beam flavor and such 08:51:53 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:53:52 -!- Zermako has quit [] 08:54:45 Like, if you bounced a beam off a wall, it would aim for what you actually hit with it 08:54:59 So it would need to know the path that the original shot would follow 08:55:00 here, just pushed, this makes battlesphere+dazzling spray consistently crashy in trunk too :p 08:55:31 okay, i am going to embark on a hopeless mission: patching lava orcs :( 08:55:46 Well, the obvious thing to do seems to simple use a default zap if the spell doesn't have one 08:56:26 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-572-gecbae3b: Assert-crash on invalid zaps. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ecbae3b9e75e 08:56:28 * kilobyte splashes Eronarn with lava. 08:56:28 * kilobyte starts a djinni, too, so splashing back won't hurt me. 08:56:49 kilobyte: do i need to do anything particular to get ccache going for crawl? 08:57:00 DracoOmega: so what's the point of using a specific zap, if all _non_ regular spells won't use it? 08:57:15 Eronarn: just what you do to get ccache in general 08:57:30 which is IIRC simple unless you want colorgcc as well, then it's mayhem 08:57:45 * kilobyte uses that mayhem everywhere so I don't know the simple way :p 08:58:04 kilobyte: Well, it may not be perfect for some spells, admittedly (though nearly all spells it works with use standard zaps, I think?) but at least it covers bolt bouncing for lightning or fire/cold off green crystal and such 08:58:18 Which seems better than it sometimes working non-obviously for those spells, too, I think 08:58:19 Just adding /usr/lib/ccache to front of PATH worked fine for me 08:58:28 (and increasing cache size) 08:58:34 Unless you can think of a better way to handle that? 09:00:35 It can't just use path_taken of the player beam, since that isn't filled out until later 09:03:54 Medar: is crawl over the cache size or something? (i know nothing about ccache configuration) 09:05:21 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Client Quit] 09:05:44 Nah, nothing special about crawl I guess. Don't even know what the default cache size is, just changed it to "enough" (16 Gb) since I have the space 09:07:09 -!- Automaton has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:07:30 I wonder if making clouds affect players at the same relvative time window as monsters could be accomplished by moving the cloud check out of _player_reacts() and to after handle_monsters()? 09:07:43 And what other side effects might that potentially have? 09:08:04 I guess you could walk into a cloud and get trampled out of it again and not take damage from it 09:08:26 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:09:55 Ninvader the Digger (L7 DgEE) (D:5) 09:10:09 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:background:crusader 09:10:13 wrote up my proposal here 09:10:26 cool, will comment 09:10:28 its fairly complete I think. Aside from code :P 09:10:59 this isn't just one of my off-the-wall ideas btw, it's something I hope is taken a bit seriously 09:11:32 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:38 Friendly orc ally with sling picks up stones, but NOT sling bullets by morik 09:12:08 hmm, what language should i base lava orc titles on 09:12:32 or culture, anyways, not really language 09:12:35 english. but draw from cool mythology 09:12:39 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:12:40 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 09:12:54 do we have actual mesopotamian stuff i ncrawl? our tiamat doesn't count 09:13:43 no 09:13:49 i was actually thinking that 09:14:02 classical perisan might work better maybe. zoroastrianism has a lot of fire stuff 09:14:17 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:19 (their places of worship are fucking FIRE TEMPLES) 09:14:22 i was considering satrap 09:14:27 ooh, archon... 09:14:55 'After 487 BC the archonships were assigned by lot to any citizen and the Polemarch's military duties were taken over by new class of generals known as strat?goí.' 09:14:58 greek would be pretty awesome 09:15:21 'lava orc strategos' 09:15:31 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:05 Actually, would it really BE a problem if you could step into a flame cloud, get trample out again right away, and suffer no damage for it? 09:16:15 Conceptually you could have only been in there a moment; too brief to get damaged 09:16:57 what if you start the titles as stone themed, and progressively get hotter sounding 09:17:50 DracoOmega: well, that's why i was suggesting a callback for moving into a cloud - so that you could have a minor effect when you first move in, and then at (beginning or EOT depending on what is standardized on) there is the full effect 09:18:06 Lava orc Basaltleus (too terrible a pun? :P) 09:18:28 because even briefly moving into a fire cloud, it may make sense to do stuff like melt ice 09:18:39 like how casting a fire spell is treated as taking 0 fire damage 09:19:19 Would this minor effect JUST be heat exposure and no damage? Otherwise wouldn't moving in sort of cause a double-effect of sorts? 09:20:05 Also it would mean that moving back and forth in a large pile of fire clouds would be more damaging than staying still 09:20:38 -!- boily has quit [Client Quit] 09:21:22 DracoOmega: what about defining it as a transition effect, and if the cloud you start in is different than the cloud you end in, use that effect? this represents a cloud 'moving over' you, springing up under you, fading away beneath you, or you running (or teleporting) into/out of a cloud 09:21:44 this would also handle moving from cloud type A into type B, i suppose... 09:22:08 Hmmmm... 09:22:57 i think it's a fair assumption to make that, any time you can act, you're in your starting and ending cells for long enough for a cloud to hit you briefly 09:23:07 even in the case of teleports or tramples 09:24:03 Well, doing it on transitions does seem better, but means that even if moving back and forth in fire doesn't do more damage than standing still in it, moving back and forth from adjacent fire and ice clouds WOULD 09:25:23 DracoOmega: well, there is already code for scaling cloud damage to time spent in clouds 09:25:42 also, wouldn't moving back and forth between fire and ice clouds be better than just being really hot or cold? :) 09:25:58 By that logic, shouldn't it hurt LESS, not MORE? 09:26:27 DracoOmega: well, you could take three models: A* + B*, A + B*, A* + B (where * is the transition effect) 09:28:51 i suppose that moving from one cloud into an equally damaging cloud should probably result in equal damage, so maybe the answer here is that the transition effect damage is a function of half the action's energy? 09:30:16 This implies that the non-transition effect needs to know that half of your turn has already been 'spent' in terms of cloud time, yes? 09:30:58 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:35 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:32:54 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:48 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:37:28 Is CAO down for updating or something? 09:45:46 <|amethyst> hm.. 09:46:34 <|amethyst> CAO webtiles started giving "WARN: IOLoop blocked for 0.500000 seconds" and "error: [Errno 4] Interrupted system call" 45 minutes ago 09:46:45 -!- Sealer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:52 <|amethyst> which was about the time the build started 09:46:53 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:47:16 <|amethyst> no wait 09:47:55 <|amethyst> the build starts in 2 hours; I forgot about the timezone difference 09:48:16 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 09:48:48 evilmike: just reading your Skald proposal, it's great. One question: why not replace old Tukima's with your new one? 09:49:38 Skald proposal? 09:49:51 cause i think the new spell idea is different enough from tukima's 09:50:35 i dont care overall, i just want it to be more focused on being a "helper" rather than a conventional summon 09:50:37 Grunt: by evilmike, on dev wiki. Cannot link, sorry. 09:50:43 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:background:crusader 09:50:44 evilmike: I understand. 09:51:00 Webtiles server stopped. 09:51:07 Webtiles server started. 09:51:35 evilmike: there's no need to throw away Tukima's right away (and I am aware of the differences) but once your spell is tested, that might be an option. 09:52:19 yes 09:52:41 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:52:49 <|amethyst> !tell rax CAO webtiles started getting all kinds of I/O hang errors at about 7:00 its time... I can't figure out why 09:52:50 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rax know. 09:53:11 <|amethyst> !tell rax it also happened yesterday, though somewhat later in the day 09:53:11 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rax know. 09:53:36 <|amethyst> !tell rax by the time I've been able to get on to investigate, I/O has been back to normal 09:53:36 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rax know. 09:56:42 evilmike: commented, although I have little to say. It's so good! 09:57:11 <|amethyst> !tell rax one thing I'm not understanding is that the timestamps in the webtiles logs appear to be 3 hours ahead (EDT rather than MST) 09:57:11 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rax know. 09:57:18 good to hear. now to pester someone into actually doing it :P 09:58:59 evilmike: yes! :) 09:59:19 I have my own list with pesterable topics, too. (Demigods, random gods, gold god.) 10:00:26 Implementation-wise, a lot of those spells seem pretty straightforward 10:00:30 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:00:47 Spectral weapon would be the complicated one, depending on how it works 10:00:53 (In terms of attack when you attack and so on) 10:00:53 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:01 I admit that I am still sort of partial to the idea I had for Tukima's, in that you attacking things would heal and extend the duration on the weapon, which itself otherwise had a quite short duration. And this would be a lot simpler in terms of behavioral code 10:02:19 The weapon could still do whatever, but you'd still need to fight yourself for it to be useful 10:04:24 -!- Sealer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:30 -!- gluup_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:51 -!- Libelnon_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:06:52 I think it still accomplishes that idea of 'battle partner' instead of 'summon to toss at something' while also being a lot easier to implement :) 10:08:23 -!- Windows has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 10:10:10 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:10:58 Also, this is kind of amusing in a sad sort of way. The beam struct that was causing that memory crash with battlesphere wasn't even USED for anything, accidentally. 10:11:15 I created that beam, then only traced a different one, meaning that whole bounce-tracing it was supposed to do never worked in the first place 10:11:27 heh 10:11:48 I guess, this crash might be worth a 0.12.1 10:12:11 battlesphere+dazzling spray is a combination a lot of people will run into 10:12:17 Yeah, indeed 10:12:38 I will soon have it working properly again 10:13:03 would it be safer to just skip that beam in 0.12? 10:13:26 Safer in what way? 10:13:43 Oh, you mean in terms of actually following reflections? 10:13:53 And not in terms of making dazzling spray not crash :P 10:14:29 I don't THINK it will cause problems, since all the complex logic was already being done 10:14:40 It was just using the wrong beam to do it (which didn't bounce, but that doesn't matter) 10:15:41 So the only real difference if that if you are firing something that bounces, it will get the full beam path instead of just the part of it up to the wall 10:17:21 -!- absolutego_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:20:28 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:32 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:22:38 The crash fix and this change are kind of entangled with each other, but I suppose I could seperate it for 0.12.1. I'm not sure it's really necessary in this case, though. 10:22:54 In any case, pushed the fix to master 10:27:18 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:27:42 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-573-gb433f32: Fix a battlesphere crash with non-standard zaps, improve tracing of bouncy beams 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 14+ 7-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b433f32bc8ae 10:30:10 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:47 zot-induced batform transformation still has collapse status w/11 strength by tcjsavannah 10:33:11 -!- Mu_ has quit [Client Quit] 10:35:48 we have STANDARDS? 10:36:19 -!- interiorcrocodil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:36:33 What? 10:37:04 * SamB is just puzzled by the "non-standard zaps" bit 10:37:36 bool actor::haloed() const 10:37:37 { return ::haloed(pos()); 10:37:37 } 10:37:58 SamB: Oh, well most regular beams and such use shared code to set their properties from zap data, but some don't do it that way 10:38:06 what's the meaning of the ::haloed(pos())? does that indicate to use a player/monster ::haloed as appropriate? 10:38:10 (i don't know cpp very well :<) 10:38:15 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:38:34 Eronarn: it means to use the thing named haloed 10:38:43 as opposed to a shadowing method 10:39:36 Well, one issue with just changing the order of cloud calls (that should have been obvious, I suppose) is that casting freezing cloud on yourself no longer hurts 10:39:37 oh, so (nothing)::(method) = that method in no namespace/class, more or less? 10:39:45 Until the turn AFTERWARD (letting you just step out of it) 10:39:51 it's not a method, but a function, but basically yeah 10:41:00 DracoOmega: can enemies get away with that too? 10:41:14 gotcha; wanna make sure i have monster temperature at least stubbed out... 10:41:19 I wonder how players could be told that collapsed (and the two others) are recovering 10:41:21 Currently, I guess they could, if they were the caster 10:41:27 Message? Change colour of the status? 10:41:40 (see latest bug report) 10:41:47 Player and monster cloud timings are quite different though 10:42:57 -!- GenghisTron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:43:31 morning 10:43:47 Medar: The long description for the status does state that (if you press @ or whatever), but I agree that the status light is worrisome 10:43:59 Like, the long description says something like "recovering from X" 10:44:11 DracoOmega: re: your idea for tukima's if you like it, I don't mind if you make changes to the idea I put on the wiki. I think if you, or anyone else decides to implement it, they deserve to put their own ideas in it too 10:44:14 Well, that's something 10:44:16 a problem with clouds affecting you instantly is it makes item destruction far more problematic esp. in zot 10:44:28 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:00 mumra: Hmmm... actually it would make very little difference except to red breath, I guess 10:45:09 Because I was going to take the impact damage off bigcloud breaths along with this 10:45:20 So that it is just the cloud hitting you 10:45:39 Because currently it often LOOKS like the cloud hit you because of this, but it didn't actually 10:46:07 But red drac breath has non-negligable damage so this doesn't work 10:46:11 also: the original spec for gas traps was supposed to not destroy items on the first turn, giving you a chance to blink away or whatever. but due to this thing of lua clouds affecting you instantly that wasn't so easy. 10:46:33 I guess you've read the backlog on the topic, then? 10:46:46 yeah 10:47:02 Fog machines affecting you instantly is good. Gas traps could probably work better if they didn't, maybe, yeah 10:47:12 Actually..... 10:47:29 What if they worked a bit like the spreading cloud effect proposed for plague shamblers? 10:47:37 You get one spot next to you, and then it rapidly spreads out from there 10:47:38 fwiw, when i first ever encountered fog machines, my assumption as a player was that there should be a way to traverse through them 10:47:42 Giving you a chance to run like heck, maybe 10:47:43 e.g. the 3x3 flame clouds with items behind them 10:48:01 why are we spending time on them? Gas traps are still mechanical traps. 10:48:01 but obviously this didn't work out and i died :P 10:48:27 kilobyte: Well, there are probably other interesting uses of non-miasma clouds that fan out 10:49:10 Since the code for that one effect could easily be generalized to other cloud types and rates and such 10:49:20 well, gas traps were originally designed as an attempt to make NON-mechanical traps, the main reason this didn't really work out is because of the instant damage? 10:49:35 they are just item destruction traps 10:49:39 or rot traps 10:49:51 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:03 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:51:25 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Quit: ckyle_] 10:51:44 say, gas traps are totally impervious to Traps, aren't they? 10:51:48 elliott: I do think that might be less true if they did create that kind of spreading effect, but it probably would still be better on some sort of more combat-centric effect 10:51:52 SamB: no 10:52:00 how not? 10:52:02 well, they can be detected 10:52:12 huh 10:52:21 i've had characters detect them 10:52:29 they have a special tile and everything 10:52:33 Yeah 10:52:39 i think cloud traps should go on monsters instead if anything (this seems to have been discussed earlier?) 10:52:56 like, you can solve a lot of the problems with traps if you put their effects on monsters instead, because it ensures a combat situation 10:53:02 Yes 10:53:20 * SamB didn't know that was posible for something implemented in lua ... 10:53:28 I don't know if you can detect the spider baskets? 10:53:34 At least I don't seem to recall ever doing this 10:53:43 SamB: they use a special feature with an lua hook attached 10:53:46 But I have definitely seen gas traps that I didn't step on 10:53:48 spider baskets might be interesting if spiders did any damage :P 10:53:59 Yes, summon traps like that I think are okay 10:54:01 mumra: I suspected as much once you told me it was possible to detect them 10:54:05 But spiders are pathetic 10:54:07 <|amethyst> redback baskets 10:54:20 certainly monster traps avoid the #1 problem I've heard of traps having 10:54:21 |amethyst: Honestly, I wouldn't object on principle! 10:54:23 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:30 elliott: there were always plans for more types of summons traps, or at least a shadow creatures trap 10:54:38 since they virtually guarentee a combat situation 10:56:37 oh, re eel pools: my plan was to replace that layout (with something rarer) rather than completely remove the scenario. and it's something that can still crop up with certain layouts and some vaults i think. 10:57:11 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I choose to read that as "(I wouldn't object) on principle"... i.e. "it involves redbacks, I approve" 10:57:17 Haha 10:57:54 the thing is that layout only actually had a 1/x chance of having the pools anyway. otherwise it was just a big rectangular room. and there are plenty of more interesting big open rooms. and the pools would work better with some rock formations scattered around you could at least hide behind ... 10:58:08 mumra: That may be a fair point 10:58:15 I do like eels problems, though :P 10:58:20 eel* 10:58:27 play eelsprint. 10:58:28 I mean, at a depth where they are relevant, anyway 10:58:33 shmm, a file called tomb_raider.des and no boobs in the whole thing ... 10:58:49 whoops, how'd that "s" get on the beginning there 10:58:53 not even a rolling boob trap? 10:59:28 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:59:58 I suppose I could make the spreading cloud effect happen in the same timeslot as the fog machines, so that IT at least would damage you once you let it spread under you 11:00:19 I do think it might be better if this was unified somehow 11:00:20 <|amethyst> SamB: if you recolour the floor pink, it would look a little like a breast cancer awareness ribbon 11:00:48 <|amethyst> of course, then we'd get sued by Komen 11:01:05 Komen? 11:01:26 <|amethyst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_G._Komen_for_the_Cure 11:01:45 <|amethyst> The foundation that has sued people for using the phrase "for the cure" in their fundraising 11:01:46 is she litigious? 11:01:51 Actually, now that I think of it, why DOES moving the cloud check here prevent you from hurting yourself with freezing clouds? 11:01:59 It's still processed before your next turn 11:02:06 -!- Itholyth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:02:13 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:02:15 to the gdb? 11:02:19 oh, wait 11:02:36 you're on Windows so GDB tends not to work very well :-( 11:02:52 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:04:47 ??ironbrand convoker 11:04:47 ironbrand convoker[1/2]: Casts 'might other' (and on any type of creature) and also recites word of recall, which teleports in a random group of I_NORMAL creatures from elsewhere on the level after a 3 turn delay. Confusing, silencing, fearing, killing or otherwise incapacitating the convoker will prevent the spell from being completed (but simply moving away will not!) 11:05:33 -!- gluop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:14 !tell dpeg You mentioned it was awkward reading the backlog ... I'm wondering is this due to the interface/layout of the logs page. I wanted to revamp it a little at some point (partially to make it easier to read on my phone) so give me any feedback you have on how it could be improved for you. 11:08:14 mumra: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 11:09:16 Oh, silly me. It was because I was using the wizmode cast command to cast freezing cloud, which takes no time 11:09:21 So it still hits you the same as ever 11:09:38 heh 11:09:52 yeah, that can be a bit confusing 11:10:32 does wizmode let you wait arbitrarily small amounts of time? 11:10:48 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:11:34 -!- gluup_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:11:58 I don't think so? 11:12:05 At least, not in any way I know of 11:13:13 Backspace entering character name by slacksy 11:13:54 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 11:16:58 -!- mumra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:17 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:24 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:19:43 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:29:46 -!- keszocze has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:34:15 Did you know that you can stop ice statues from throwing freezing clouds at you if you are near plants? 11:34:33 Presumably this goes for other things, too 11:35:03 i like plants too 11:35:16 More usefully, this stops fire crabs 11:35:35 what, they don't want to hurt the plants ;-) 11:35:46 Unless you're with Fedhas, of course 11:35:53 At which point they will burn them with impunity 11:36:12 |amethyst: can you help with an s-z lost password - https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7862 11:36:24 Probably monsters should not care about destroying 'allied' firewood 11:36:28 |amethyst: there's also this one but he didn't say which server - https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7871 11:36:34 I wonder if it will stop a balrug from fireballing you? 11:36:41 what about balistos 11:37:01 It seems to! 11:37:41 This is a little silly 11:38:33 Also stops Cerebov from firestorming 11:38:36 And hellions from hellfiring 11:38:47 Plants: the most durable shield of them all 11:39:02 Unless you are worshipping the plant god, ironically enough 11:39:46 wow 11:40:13 i guess plants aren't generally common enough for this to matter in branches where it could actually be relevant 11:41:03 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:41:03 Well, probably no one would notice if it did 11:41:11 Since they could just randomly choose not to use their AoE for a bunch of turns anyway 11:41:18 So you'd assume the RNG was being kind 11:41:54 Still, I think this probably should be changed 11:42:02 (I think it would also be easy to do, incidentally) 11:42:17 it definitely needs fixing now the cat's out of the bag 11:42:23 otherwise this will be the new secret orb run tech 11:42:41 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:42:45 Well, it seems hard to use usefully in most cases 11:42:56 -!- interiorcrocodil has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:43:03 you could rest up by plants in D during orb run, that seems like the most useful application 11:43:05 Maybe grow a bunch of plants, then abandon Fedhas? :P 11:43:26 <|amethyst> mumra: phoniks must be on CDO, I can't do anything about that 11:43:31 03SamB 07* 0.13-a0-574-gf7050da: Remove some trivial ternary expressions. 10(12 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f7050da6dd3e 11:43:31 03SamB 07* 0.13-a0-575-g52406ed: Adjust comment at top of compat.des to reflect ongoing need for the file 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=52406ed87f31 11:43:37 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:44:03 |amethyst: np, thanks for checking 11:44:11 <|amethyst> mumra: I reset the other 11:44:36 Napkin: can you reset a lost CDO password - https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7871 11:46:56 Yay for one line fixes 11:47:29 i'm a bigger fan of 1 char fixes ;) 11:47:46 ??epic_bugs 11:47:46 epic bugs[1/9]: if (you.religion = GOD_XOM) 11:48:13 This will also make monsters more likely to shoot THROUGH plants at you, too 11:48:22 :( 11:48:36 I had noticed that stuff mostly only did that when I was with Fedhas, before 11:48:36 you should remove the centaur behind bushes vault as compensation :P 11:48:53 I thought I would be sneaky and fire through the plants at them, but then the eels just fired back 11:49:13 ...does this mean that oklobs will kill the plants blocking them off, too? 11:49:18 That bit sounds a little worse 11:50:08 Hmmm... seems not 11:51:18 when i remake layout_eels i should remember to put plants around all the pools i guess :) 11:51:40 Evil 11:52:22 oklobs around all the pools 11:52:27 Haha 11:52:58 even better 11:53:12 and we need a unique with "throw oklob" spell 11:54:36 <|amethyst> fedhas unique 11:54:43 <|amethyst> fedhas-worshipping that is 11:55:45 "oklob tree" unique plant 11:56:00 ancient oklob 11:56:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:56:27 -!- santiago has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:57:32 -!- bulop has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:57:37 we definitely need some plant uniques once plants are a bit better 11:57:53 btw dracoomega did you see the discussion a couple of days ago about plant monsters? 11:58:27 -!- GenghisTron has quit [Client Quit] 11:58:37 i should really wikify some of that 11:58:42 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-576-gbed35e5: Make invisible allies fully visible to the player (elliott) 10(8 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bed35e5f92d5 11:59:28 mumra: Maybe? I'm not certain 12:00:52 it kind of revolved around plants using growth to be non-static 12:01:14 and a grass with swarm-like behaviour, that kind of thing 12:01:19 Oh, I think I recall that 12:01:26 Sort of moving/growing by tendrils or something? 12:01:41 yeah that's one option 12:01:50 the grass thing would be more like cellular growth 12:03:46 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-577-g5790aa0: Fix indentation 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5790aa003171 12:04:23 there was something else i was thinking about where a static plant could shed seeds (even from outside los) which have projectile movement and travel pretty fast then take root next to you to become melee threats, something like that 12:04:48 there was also mention of a plant with reaching (possibly 3-tile reach) 12:07:00 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:06 !messages 12:07:06 No messages for bh. 12:09:03 ophanim (L25 TrAK) (Abyss:2) 12:09:30 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-577-g5790aa0 (34) 12:13:53 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-578-g462ce95: Make monsters less protective of the plants around them 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=462ce9534f4c 12:16:17 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:27 -!- Krag has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:01 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:13 ??shedu 12:27:14 shedu[1/2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamassu 12:27:18 ??shedu[2] 12:27:18 shedu[2/2]: The shedu screeches! The shedu salutes you. _The shedu beseeches The Shining One to heal its mate! _The shedu kicks the shedu! x2 I think they're mating 12:27:33 where do shedu appear? 12:27:56 only placed by vaults, including the holy pan level 12:27:59 holy pan, holy zig, 12:28:02 and zigs yeah 12:28:04 like one other vault maybe? 12:28:14 the late D holy thing 12:28:27 i made a zin temple vault, but it doesnt have shedus 12:28:29 I'm toying around with a satyr monster 12:28:38 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:16 its really hard to make shedus actually work, they hardly ever manage to resurrect 12:31:05 Is it that it takes them too much time? 12:31:08 Or that they don't bother to cast it? 12:31:25 I am not certain I have ever seen them pull it off, but I don't recall paying close attention 12:31:56 not sure what the problem is 12:32:58 https://gist.github.com/bhickey/5518178 12:33:51 what does it do? that just makes it look like a nerfed harpy 12:34:20 it's a sack of hp at the moment 12:34:50 Batty seems strange for a satyr to me, incidentally 12:35:09 I was thinking of putting it shallow in the lair. DracoOmega: oh? I imagine them hopping around 12:35:26 and for a speed 13 thing 12:35:32 i dont think you should make an intelligent monster a regular lair spawn 12:35:34 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:35:52 and unless you can think of a good behaviour, it doesnt seem to fit anywhere 12:35:58 What was it supposed to do OTHER than this, anyway? 12:37:08 DracoOmega: some kind of misc hexes? There's a reason I didn't just push it :) 12:38:38 it should say highly satirical things about the player 12:39:19 "Good job, ! You'll find the Orb of Zot for sure!" 12:39:21 So Donald is secretly a satry? 12:41:18 apparently satyrs were part of dionysus' band 12:41:37 now, dionysus could be an entertaining unique 12:42:47 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:12 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:28 and it'd be ok having intelligent monsters spawn as part of a unique's band in lair i guess 12:43:53 ??dionysus 12:43:54 I don't have a page labeled dionysus in my learndb. 12:44:00 unknown monster: "dionysus" 12:44:00 %??dionysus 12:46:09 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:05 X - the +3 scale mail of Ladders and Snakes {rF+} 12:47:13 ... shouldn't that be Snakes and Ladders? 12:47:55 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:48:27 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:17 -!- morik1 has quit [Client Quit] 12:49:17 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:52:30 v38m2y69t the Thaumaturge (L13 DECj) ASSERT(this) in 'actor.h' at line 34 failed on turn 27442. (Elf:1) 12:59:29 -!- Naruni has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:00 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 13:01:07 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:29 -!- nht has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 13:03:24 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:03:46 !lm * crash -log 13:03:46 4731. v38m2y69t, XL13 DECj, T:27442 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/v38m2y69t/crash-v38m2y69t-20130504-175229.txt 13:04:26 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-579-geb7f152: Remove worms from a Trog vault (minqmay) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eb7f152bf9be 13:06:18 -!- eeviac has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:50 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:30 Some of this code is unpleasant. Like how SPELL_FIRE_BREATH does like 6 different things depending on who is casting it 13:09:01 ouch 13:09:03 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:09:14 And the damage formula for SOME of the monsters is in one file, and the one for some OTHER monsters is in another 13:11:10 DracoOmega: refactor it into six spells. 13:11:39 Well, some of it functionally already is 13:11:47 Like normal dragon breath and fire crab breath are the 'same' 13:11:53 Except for the bit where they're not at all the same 13:13:39 v38m2y69t the Thaumaturge (L13 DECj) ASSERT(this) in 'actor.h' at line 34 failed on turn 27206. (Elf:1) 13:14:17 Nice. beam.is_big_cloud is set on a bunch of spells, except that it seems if the spell is cast conventionally, the property is ignored entirely 13:14:35 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-580-g3cdce20: Fix drakes throwing beams at you 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3cdce205ca6a 13:14:42 And some beams care if they're big clouds and others don't, even if both use big clouds? 13:16:31 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:16 Maybe I should consider trying to tidy some of this up at some point 13:17:26 ('Ha', he says) 13:18:26 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:41 only three or four years until the codebase turns 20 13:18:44 Though apparently fixing this attack verb issue also makes it so that monsters won't cast freezing cloud way the heck past you 13:18:58 Such that no clouds actually are near you 13:19:01 !? 13:19:03 And instead cast it ON you 13:19:05 Which is probably a good thing 13:19:10 for the monsters. 13:19:21 And probably for the game as a whole? 13:19:29 Certain other clouds acted properly 13:19:30 yeah. 13:19:44 This one also did if you were in an enclosed space or kind of far from the monster 13:19:56 But in open space, the clouds would form at max range and you might be much closer than that 13:20:06 Because one member variable was not being copied properly 13:20:22 I agree with the comment here: // [ds] remind me again why we're doing this piecemeal copying? 13:20:44 Because I'm not really sure either 13:20:57 bh: two years, I think 13:21:23 elliott: we should print the source code out and sell commemorative copies ;) 13:22:02 Oh, nice! 13:22:12 Fixing it for freezing cloud also simultaneously BROKE it for fire crabs 13:22:21 Since apparently they were relying on part of the structure NOT being copied properly? 13:23:07 * kilobyte claps wildly. 13:23:25 crawl: it's a bunch of bugs that are fun to play. 13:23:39 don't worry, somehow Crawl is still more sane than most other codebases out there :( 13:25:18 I once worked on a codebase with its own homebrew numeric types. They stored something like 180k digits at every step of calculation. The servers would start paging and user requests would time out. 13:25:45 that sounds remarkably pleasant 13:25:50 bh: hey, i am taking the day off and doing lava orcs :) 13:26:28 I think if I want to change cloud timing and properly remove impact from these monster cloud spells, I may need to actually clean up some of this stuff 13:26:42 Eronarn: no need for hurry, |amethyst imposed a moratorium on experimental branches on the servers until the tournament ends 13:26:48 Zannick: they bought more servers. 13:27:11 bh: surprise. 13:27:32 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:27:35 Not that, I suppose, anyone would complain if some parts of the beam code became nicer 13:27:41 Though I worry what I may be getting myself into 13:27:45 and he's right: if we actually served 0.12 before, the dazzling battlesphere bug would get caught 13:27:48 <3 beem and beam 13:28:34 DracoOmega: please don't ruin 13:28:35 ??goodcode 13:28:35 goodcode[1/2]: beem.is_beam = false 13:28:41 Haha 13:28:48 Probably not that comprehensive, no 13:29:29 I once renamed is_beam to can_penetrate, but I noticed it has other uses too 13:29:41 so didn't push that 13:29:41 Like what? 13:29:53 enchantments IIRC 13:29:54 what's the purpose of the "maybe" functions, anyway? 13:30:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:30:26 Really? But enchantments stop at the first target in the path anyway? Well, except dig, but dig is weird 13:30:51 well, it's not supposed to make sense 13:30:56 Haha 13:31:49 doesn't being a "beam" also give enchantments better chance to penetrate MR somehow 13:32:00 I am fairly sure no 13:32:02 worst code that exists: 1. blink, 2. throwing, 3. radius_iterator/los_def/circle_def; beam shenanigans are far in comparison 13:32:09 I've heard something like this before 13:32:50 kilobyte: I've never had a problem *using* radius_iterator 13:34:09 bh: it's an unholy mess inside 13:34:30 kilobyte: you've got to crack a few eggs to make bacon? 13:34:52 bh: no you don't ;-P 13:35:12 you've got to make a few cracks to make kraken 13:35:23 get kraken 13:36:50 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:22 also, most of CPU code is spent in the iterator tangle (outside the Abyss, of course) 13:39:38 DracoOmega: did you take a look at this last battlesphere crash? 13:41:29 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:42:03 SamB: fixed, we probably should make a 0.12.1 because of it 13:42:35 !lm * crash -log 13:42:36 4732. v38m2y69t, XL13 DECj, T:27206 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/v38m2y69t/crash-v38m2y69t-20130504-181339.txt 13:42:39 that one's fixed? 13:42:56 !lm * crash x=ver 13:42:57 Unknown field: ver 13:43:12 !lm * crash x=v 13:43:13 4732. [2013-05-04 18:13:39] [v=0.13.0-a0] v38m2y69t the Thaumaturge (L13 DECj) ASSERT(this) in 'actor.h' at line 34 failed on turn 27206. (Elf:1) 13:43:20 grr 13:43:49 Version: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 0.13-a0-577-g5790aa0 13:43:51 !lm * crash x=v -2 13:43:52 4731/4732. [2013-05-04 17:52:29] [v=0.13.0-a0] v38m2y69t the Thaumaturge (L13 DECj) ASSERT(this) in 'actor.h' at line 34 failed on turn 27442. (Elf:1) 13:43:57 !lm * crash x=v -3 13:43:58 4730/4732. [2013-05-04 17:09:02] [v=0.13.0-a0] ophanim the Wrestler (L25 TrAK) ? (Abyss:2) 13:44:30 not that probably 13:45:45 radius_iterator doesn't look so bad to me, it's distance_iterator i'm worried about 13:46:08 it may be incidental that it involves the battlesphere, for all I know; anyway it's trying to call is_player() on a null pointer ... 13:47:28 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:38 mumra: it's not obvious that it calls circle_def and los_def from a tight loop 13:50:41 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:50:58 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 13:51:12 ah right yeah 13:52:52 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:55:35 i can't actually completely wrap my head around what's going on in there so ... yeah 13:56:39 I guess I should start isolating its interface 13:56:57 I just noticed a typo in the hydra description 13:57:00 because 99% uses are intuitive and simple 13:57:14 "considering hydra's unique biology" 13:59:42 should it be "considering the hydra's" or "considering hydrae's" ? 14:01:05 either would work 14:01:10 even "considering a hydra's" would work 14:03:32 hey guys on current checkout of master im getting a no rule to make target 'abl-show.o' needed by crawl.exe stop 14:03:33 "considering hydra biology" 14:03:48 abl-show.cc and abl-show.h are there 14:04:12 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:27 works for me. 14:04:32 hmm 14:05:48 of course, I'm building on OSX. SamB: how does the windows build look? 14:06:03 Naruni: are you certain you're on a clean repo? 14:06:23 Naruni: that's strange 14:07:44 Naruni: can you run `git fetch --all ; git reset --hard /master`? 14:08:20 this will nuke all local changes, note 14:08:49 yes... 14:09:03 -!- elliott has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:09:09 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:31 "git stash" first would thus not be bad idea 14:10:10 -!- elliott_ is now known as elliott 14:10:22 bh im tring something else one sec 14:10:44 SamB: that won't save unpushed commits, though 14:11:29 bh: er, actually it will 14:11:55 i was doing all that in git bash instead of msysgit cli... i hate windows 14:12:13 it doesn't exactly provide a convenient way to get back to them, though 14:13:09 this is why you work in branches 14:13:47 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:15:44 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:45 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:17:46 there it goes 14:20:30 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:20:39 Is there any way to get a list of what's in the "you" table in wizard-lua? I can't seem to get next or other stuff to work to iterate over it. 14:23:21 you could try looking in l_you.cc 14:24:21 -!- Froggeryz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:25:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:17 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:18 SamB: Perfect, thanks. 14:27:32 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:27:44 -!- reaver_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:29 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Quit: ckyle_] 14:33:57 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:09 -!- aa99 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:36:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:37:18 -!- Sealer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:39 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 14:41:35 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:45 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 14:43:01 -!- s951 has quit [Client Quit] 14:53:20 -!- dptr1988 has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:54:45 !tell MarvinPA I added tiles to Mantis Issue 6896 (The one about evocable control teleport and the Cloak of the Thief's fog ability) a couple days ago. If there's going to be a 0.12.1 soon due to the Battlesphere/Dazzling Spray crash it would be good to get them in before then. 14:54:45 reaver_: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 14:58:06 -!- Sealer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:08 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:04:14 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:26 -!- Poncheis has quit [Client Quit] 15:10:18 reaver_: yup i saw it, thanks! unfortunately i'm on windows and can't do the misc tiles optimisation stuff we try and do before adding new tiles but i'll keep poking more capable devs to take a look at it 15:10:47 I'll take a look 15:10:59 nice, thanks 15:12:25 %mantis 6896 15:12:34 mantis 6896 15:12:36 !mantis 6896 15:12:36 !mantis 6896 15:12:36 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6896 15:12:37 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6896 15:12:46 that second one was a typo 15:12:52 heh 15:15:21 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:16:32 -!- Sealer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:44 Kovak (L1 TrCj) (D:1) 15:19:46 reaver_: it would be nice if the ctele icon would incorporate the ctele ring icon though ( https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/item/ring/i-c-teleport.png ) 15:22:38 Seems like a good idea, I didn't even think to check that. 15:22:49 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:23:48 reaver_: so, that first attachment should just be deleted I guess? 15:24:20 Yeah, is there a way for contributors to do that? 15:24:52 v38m2y69t the Thaumaturge (L13 DECj) ASSERT(this) in 'actor.h' at line 34 failed on turn 27668. (D:13) 15:30:11 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:34:00 evilmike: I very much like your skald proposals! 15:35:14 wait a minute 15:37:10 cool, hopefully something comes of it. i still think the "spirit shield" spell idea is a bit weak though, maybe that idea dpeg suggested in the comments is better 15:37:26 reaver_: none of the other ability icons are 28x28 ... 15:38:34 Huh 15:38:49 Are they smaller or larger? 15:39:02 they're all 32x32 15:39:41 By 28x28 I meant "It has a 2 pixel border around" 15:40:02 ohh 15:43:28 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:45:09 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:48:09 evilmike: I am a sucker for chaining (getting boosts for kill streaks), so your spell in that direction had my love right away 15:48:09 dpeg: You have 9 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:48:29 I also think that the Spirit spell can work. There is a nice symmetry between that one and Regeneration. 15:48:39 -!- Sealer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:53 it's not unworkable, in any case, and would be easier to set up. The one really complicated spell is that dancing weapon one 15:49:59 <|amethyst> is this on devwiki? 15:50:10 yeah I posted it this morning 15:50:17 reaver_: should I credit you as Reaver or reaver_ 15:51:17 -!- reaver_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:56 Seems like the Implementables have run out of steam. Need a new way to hire coders :) 15:51:58 SamB: credit him as leaver ? 15:52:05 lol 15:52:20 :) 15:53:38 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:54:35 implementables sometimes work but a lot of old ones that were a bit tougher have kind of rotted on mantis and now need reviewing anyway 15:55:27 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56:09 -!- fbafelipe has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:09 Yes. I don't think an implementable for new Skald wouldn' 15:56:20 Ridiculous zombie/skeleton/simulacrum generation by minmay 15:56:20 t fly... but perhaps for single spells. 15:56:59 i'd rather try to sell the idea here and see if any of the active devs like the idea enough to code it 15:57:01 I mightn't be adverse to coding some of that stuff myself, but I still have a lot of stuff I want to get through first 15:57:13 if not, no big deal, then we can ship it out to the wider community and make it an implementable 15:57:13 I noted this early zombie/skeleton generation but I thought it to be completely intentional. Those slow zombies make a lot of sense early on. 15:57:16 I am piling up commits to unleash once the tournament is over :P 15:57:17 hmm, for the fog icon optipng + advpng crammed the IDAT from 675 bytes down to 376 bytes 15:57:24 DracoOmega: heh 15:57:24 DracoOmega: <3 <3 <3 15:57:38 will you push those to a branch at least? 15:57:50 What, the stuff I'm working on? 15:57:51 i think specs should be worked out properly before an implementable gets raised anyway, wiki/mailing list discussion first at least 15:57:59 but yeah the skald spells look really good btw 15:58:07 well it might be kinda crazy if you push like 200 commits as soon as the tournament ends :P 15:58:07 evilmike: I understand. Personally, I suffer from the fact that my goals are a bit too big for everyone. 15:58:19 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:20 * dpeg makes the round once more, hat in hand. 15:58:36 evilmike: It's not THAT many. But I also tend to rebase the crap out of what I'm working on and change stuff around a bunch, so a public branch would kind of mess some of that up 15:58:41 DracoOmega: do you have those commits backup up? i would dread to think about hard drive failure! 15:58:47 DracoOmega: ahh, I understand 15:58:55 mumra: I do have nightly backups on my dev directory 15:59:13 DracoOmega: how far back ? 15:59:21 Like, my misc item revamp branch was something like 78 commits and is now about 34 15:59:34 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:45 Since I overhauled a bunch of what I was doing several times and none of that needs to be added to master 16:00:01 SamB: A very long time, anyway, I think 16:00:12 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:00:35 misc item revamp, uh oh 16:01:02 evilmike: if we get DracoOmega to read your Skald proposal, you can consider it to be practically coded :) 16:01:02 Well, only to some of them at present 16:01:15 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:01:17 dpeg: I was here for the original discussion, remember! 16:01:24 And I did read the wiki page, too 16:01:24 oh, wait, I was confused 16:01:47 the whole FILE went from 803 bytes to 376 bytes ;-) 16:02:27 dpeg: Not ALL misc items yet, I am afraid, but at least some! 16:02:49 Since it is kind of sad that there's a whole class of items that are basically 'crystal ball of energy and junk' 16:02:57 DracoOmega: yes, pity that 16:03:02 well, anyone can code it. I brought it up with dracomega because I liked his design for the new conjurer spells 16:03:10 DracoOmega: I thought cards were there too 16:03:13 is elliptic around much these days? I'd be interested to see what he thinks too 16:03:15 Ah, yes, cards too 16:03:31 evilmike: yes, as I said on the wiki, your Skald proposal related to old Skald like new Cj to old Cj, imo 16:03:34 Still, lots of stuff unusued 16:03:49 evilmike: yes, always ask elliptic for opinions. He seems to be around. 16:03:55 -!- airwaveraid has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:03:58 Sorry about my internet glitching out, credit me as Reaver 16:04:05 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:04:07 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:31 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 16:07:32 okay, I pushed it, hopefully it actually works ... 16:11:29 03SamB 07* 0.13-a0-581-g32e5fa8: Evoke fog ability icon for cloak of the Thief (Reaver) 10(5 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=32e5fa84aeeb 16:11:35 -!- Silurio_ is now known as silurio 16:12:03 One of these days I will get my bookless OpMo^V home... 16:13:03 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 16:15:22 On the evocable control teleport icon, the one from the current ring isn't very helpful. Maybe it would make more sense to change the ring's icon? 16:16:54 reaver: oh, luckily I had already decided to credit you that way because I didn't notice your message just now ;-) 16:18:22 -!- asfkhkj has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:47 -!- silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:23:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:06 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 16:23:15 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:45 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Quit: ckyle_] 16:23:59 reaver: you would have to ask ontoclasm about that, but I think it'd be hard to make an icon that immediately conveys "teleport control", and the current one isn't bad 16:24:56 I've already started, based the the spell icon. It at least portrays it better than "purple spiral" 16:25:58 -!- CKyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:11 reaver: how are you going to cram that into a ring? 16:26:48 I don't see why we can't use that exact icon for the ability though 16:26:56 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:17 The targets will be right next to each, with the blue arrow being curved and to the side. The "target" icon would be in the background or maybe omitted. 16:28:01 Also, I mentioned on the mantis issue that the icons for abilities with multiple sources seems inconsistent. Flight and blink are also weird. 16:28:45 note that the purple spiral is used in several places to signal teleport 16:30:15 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:29 ring/wooden.png looks quite dithered 16:30:38 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:44 as does ring/tiger_eye.png 16:34:04 Hmm, it doesn't help that there's no teleport spell 16:34:31 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:36:36 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:37:42 I've got to go, I'll complete the icon and upload it to mantis if it looks good. 16:37:47 -!- reaver has quit [] 16:42:26 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:43:51 -!- absolutego is now known as absolutego_ 16:48:52 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:48:53 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 16:48:59 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:54:47 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:59:38 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:22 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:08:59 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:09:37 -!- obelus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:13:58 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:14:28 -!- eeviac_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:15:26 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:19 -!- eeviac has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:16:23 -!- eeviac_ is now known as eeviac 17:16:45 -!- serq has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:13 Ctrl-H generates unknown command by hhkb 17:22:16 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:50 -!- JamezQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:43 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:20 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:20 git question: what is the difference between master and stone_soup branches? 17:28:15 <|amethyst> myrmidette: master is where development happens (also known as "trunk") 17:28:42 and stone_soup is? 17:28:43 <|amethyst> myrmidette: the stone_soup branches are releases (and unreleased bugfixes applied to releases) 17:28:47 -!- obelus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:29:02 so if I just want to play I should get stone_soup 17:29:14 or trunk 17:29:56 <|amethyst> depends on whether you want new but potentially buggy features on a regular basis 17:30:08 <|amethyst> if you want to play the release we just made, go with stone_soup-0.12 17:30:56 <|amethyst> if you're not going to be recompiling new versions frequently, you probably don't want master 17:31:18 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:57 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:33:04 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:34:10 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:39 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:17 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:37:19 since the nausea change there doesn't seem any point in 'e' preferring to eat clean chunks first 17:38:19 -!- QQQ is now known as gloop 17:38:31 simplest solution is to remove contam chunks like elliptic suggested 17:39:23 yes 17:39:41 er, as in, remove the notion of a contam chunk, not remove all chunks that are now contam 17:45:43 !tell evilmike New skald spell ideas seem cool, I'm a bit dubious about spirit shield also but maybe it could work with enough tweaking of the effect. I think maybe infusion and song of slaying could be combined: make song of slaying slowly drain your MP (as it does in Sil). Also, I'll be a bit sad if poison weapon isn't in a starting book any more (the other brands are junk though) 17:45:44 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 17:46:05 Henzell is like twitter. 17:46:05 bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:46:07 !messages 17:46:07 (1/1) HangedMan said (1h 21m 30s ago): it means as soon as I bother to read the original work I will make a more creative vault 17:46:10 oh well, he's in the channel :P 17:46:21 !tell Hangedman <3!!! :) 17:46:22 bh: OK, I'll let hangedman know. 17:47:29 <|amethyst> !tell HangedMan http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jatill/175/libraryf.htm 17:47:29 |amethyst: OK, I'll let hangedman know. 17:48:38 |amethyst: I added more book titles 17:48:41 !vault bh_babel_library 17:48:49 Couldn't find bh_babel_library in the Crawl source tree 17:49:49 elliptic: don't venom mages get poison weapon?? 17:50:00 not any more I think, and they aren't the best place for it anyway 17:50:01 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:13 (because they have lots of other ways of poisoning enemies) 17:50:18 oh, that's too bad, I like that spell 17:50:30 What do venom mages do post poison arrow? 17:50:36 win 17:50:42 bh: what is this "post poison arrow" :P 17:50:49 ??poison arrow 17:50:49 poison arrow[1/1]: Level 6, range 7 conj/poison spell (Annihilations exclusive), inflicts incredible damage, deals 70% resistable damage and poisons poison-resistant natural creatures, the undead cannot be poisoned but still take some damage. Used by naga casters and draconian/deep elf annihilators, as well as Aizul, Green Deaths and Gloorx Vloq. 17:51:10 elliptic: tornado? shatter? ice storm? fire storm? 17:51:19 -!- Guest60051 has quit [Quit: Quitte] 17:51:31 poison arrow is great against even most rpois stuff, enemies usualyl dont have more than rp+, unless they're undead 17:51:49 <|amethyst> bh: I saw ♥ 17:51:51 evilmike: to further expand on my comments, I liked the "melee battlesphere" idea a lot and I think that there is definitely room for at least one good low-level spell between infusion and song of slaying 17:52:25 they seemed a little similar maybe though, having two low-level spells that both just improve your raw damage output 17:52:36 parrow was nerfed by the rPois+++ change :p 17:52:46 parrow is no longer really great against liches 17:53:52 -!- Rjs has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:53 btw, one reason I shied away from "lose mp over time" like in sil, is we have a lot of ways to restore mp, whereas in that game it's rare 17:54:04 summon dragon got nerfed by the 'time doesn't pass when you're off level' bugfi 17:54:04 x 17:54:09 but i'm not against combining those two spells if there's something that works 17:54:16 BATTLESONG 17:54:29 I really want it to be level 1 though. that, and it needs to keep the "kill streak" concept 17:54:52 what do we have for MP draining? that is, the player draining monsters 17:55:02 bh: monsters don't have MP 17:55:03 enemy spell failure chance 17:55:34 in Sil, song of slaying is very loud. this a) balances it a bit b) helps drawing lots of enemies to you 17:55:44 which works well with the song 17:55:58 anyway to expand on my issue with mp restoration, I think if the buff just drains MP over time, someone might find a way to extend the spell indefinitely (mummy skald of sif???) 17:56:00 song of slaying also stops you from using other songs usually 17:56:09 so in the proposal, I went with a simple duration limit 17:56:15 evilmike: well, I meant keeping the kill streak thing 17:56:27 just having a slight MP drain on top of that 17:56:47 -!- k9quaint has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:57:01 anyway this all needs testing and balancing to see what works 17:57:09 yeah 17:57:11 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 17:57:12 -!- aa99 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:57:49 I just am not sure that skald needs both a L1 charms spell and a L2 charms spell that are both just damage increasers that work differently 17:57:53 but maybe it is fine 17:58:00 I think that's a fair point 17:58:02 certainly any of this is better than fire/frost brand 17:58:16 and rMsl is also really meh as a starting book spell 17:58:32 evilmike: making musk of sif a power combo is something you could be very proud of 17:58:39 quite a feat 17:58:44 I really don't want them to have more than one straight defensive buff, and shroud is the spell for that 17:58:49 rmsl just doesn't seem to fill any real niche 18:00:00 oh actualyl, shroud is melee only I guess. whatever 18:00:23 early game not only doesn't have a huge amount of ranged, but some of that ranged is magic dart 18:00:30 rmsl is basically just anti-centaur 18:00:57 it also doesn't work well with low EV builds 18:01:31 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:02:26 if em-skald is still primarily melee there also isn't that much need for an anti-centaur spell as you'd want to close on it or lure it around a corner anyway. 18:03:41 the focus is on melee, yeah 18:04:08 hmm, the prompt code is a bit glitchy with delete and/or backspace 18:04:30 I mean it has some display glitches 18:04:38 we should also steal concentration from sil 18:04:57 that one is fun too 18:05:13 and blocking, for epic 120SH 18:05:31 just steal everything 18:05:34 and yay, this evoke_fog tile *actually works* 18:05:39 I managed to test it now 18:05:43 add morgoth 18:06:09 i dont think concentration would really fit in that skald design though. maybe something else could get it. i still think it would be a cool "weapon move" for maces or osmething 18:06:46 it doesn't look anything like the fog itself though 18:06:52 there's a lot I like about the design of sil but I wouldn't want to steal everything. For some reason as much as I enjoy it, I can only play it in small chunks. Something about it is less "playable" than other games 18:07:15 can't really put my finger on it 18:07:36 evilmike: do you play telepathically 18:07:47 not sure, I haven't felt that way about it 18:07:51 because that would totally explain why you can't put your finger on it 18:08:21 it's a computer program, I'd mess up my hd pretty bad if I literally put my finger on it 18:08:30 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:08:40 a lot of sil wouldn't work in crawl anyway, because it relies on AI and not having autofight 18:08:58 crawl is definitely bound 18:10:34 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:10:50 I think the issues I have are, the early game isn't interesting, orc packs are too big (later enemies have way smaller groups), and the smithing interface is really bad 18:11:03 for that last one I can at least ignore smithing for the most part 18:11:48 evilmike: there are some threads on the forum recently from the devs asking for what people like and don't like 18:11:55 cool 18:12:22 I'll make some suggestions then, all the issues I have with the game are fixable 18:12:31 early game has been brought up (by me), smithing interface has a little but not too much (mainly the complaints have been you can't explore options) 18:13:33 that's one, but another is that there is just so much fiddling with numbers and crap, especially if you want ideal weights. ideally, item's I've made should save to my character file, and then I should be able to bring up a list of already made items and quickly pick from that 18:13:45 because I've probably made the exact same longsword 100 times by now 18:14:13 I barely use smithing, can't really stand it 18:14:28 maybe I should complain about it but meh 18:14:43 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:15:40 jewellery is the best because it doesnt encourage you to micromanage weights 18:16:39 yeah, if I smith it is either jewellery and/or weaponsmith for the first forge, then I ignore it 18:16:43 rings of acc, mm 18:22:49 -!- daek_ is now known as Daekdroom 18:23:54 elliott: for removing contam chunks: maybe a mixture of both: a smaller chance for such corpses to drop 18:24:46 elliott: not a big reduction because of corpse sacrifices/simulacrum/sublimation, of course 18:25:39 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 18:25:54 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:04 why is nausea going away? 18:28:06 ??swapping 18:28:07 I don't have a page labeled swapping in my learndb. 18:28:44 because the devs won't rest until they ruin the game, obviously 18:30:08 BlastHardcheese: damn right we won't 18:31:11 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:18 it's about time you removed sif 18:31:25 we devs are devoted to "Stone Soup theory" 18:32:10 wow elliptic, admitting your true goals in a publicly logged channel? 18:32:25 elliott: need to explain to the masses why there aren't any light sources in crawl 18:32:39 elliptic: just put a stone in a pot and call it done? 18:33:02 fr remove everything except stones, add bags of holding 18:33:05 elliptic: it causes an inconsistency in the fundamental equations of stone soup theory right 18:33:14 eeviac: what happens when you put a BoH inside a BoH??? 18:33:19 elliott: yes 18:33:25 do they break, spilling all of your stones onto the ground? 18:33:26 it explodes and you lose all your stones 18:33:41 add cooking skill for making soup 18:33:42 elliott: fortunately crawl can still be a top 3 roguelike while following the guidelines of stone soup theory 18:34:02 top 3? who do you think are the other contenders 18:34:16 elliptic: be careful, one of those radical string soup theorists might get the #1 spot with their new models 18:34:26 eeviac: I am told that ToME 4 is one of the other two 18:34:31 personally, crawl has ruined all other roguelikes 18:34:37 oh you mean by popularity 18:34:41 crawl is a "better eSport" though 18:34:46 presumably the strings in string soup are nooodls 18:34:57 eeviac: this conversation might make more sense if you read the comments at https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/crawl-0-12-high-vaultage 18:35:00 let's not talk about esports 18:35:34 the "top roguelike" is just an internet poll though. tome4 has a lot of online stuff built in to it, and I believe it had a message directing players to vote for it 18:35:47 indeed 18:35:47 so it kind of wins because no other roguelike cares as much about winning 18:36:58 an internet poll is not "what's better" but "what advertises the poll most" 18:37:09 what are ascii dreams and why do we vote in them 18:38:48 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:39:40 stone soup thought is the culmination of the struggle against bourgoisie dungeon crawlers 18:42:18 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:25 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44:16 i'd be a bit sad to see contam chunks actually go, but unfortunately it does make sense 18:44:37 In your opinion, what do they add to the game? 18:44:37 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:44:45 DCSS has nothing on BorgesRL 18:45:13 eeviac: well exactly, they don't add anything, they've just always been there not really doing anyone any harm ;) 18:46:00 do we have anything else for 0.12.1? 18:46:01 um centaur 18:46:01 s 18:46:20 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:28 if no, I'll release with the dazzling battlesphere bug, the report gathers more and more "me too"s 18:47:11 squarelos for 0.12.1 imo 18:47:18 elliott: yay! 18:47:25 and yeah, it's a lesson to actually serve pre-release next time 18:47:27 the cloak of the thief tile i think 18:47:43 MarvinPA: is it corrupted somehow? 18:47:54 eeviac: or i should say, they do add something, which is "flavour", or at least they have something to do with chunk flavour ;) 18:48:22 sorry, i mean the tile for its evocable ability (0.12 doesn't have such a tile, one was just uploaded to mantis and went into trunk) 18:48:30 %git 32e5fa84aeeb3d 18:48:30 03SamB * 0.13-a0-581-g32e5fa8: Evoke fog ability icon for cloak of the Thief (Reaver) 10(3 hours ago, 3 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=32e5fa84aeeb 18:48:44 mumra: colour of chunks is a very weak kind of flavour imo :P 18:48:58 elliott: i am talking literal flavour. as in what the chunks taste like. 18:49:00 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:49:31 i thought that was just an extra joke appended after "or at least" :( 18:49:45 no, that was the whole point of the statement ;) 18:50:04 :( :( :( 18:50:12 you elitist stone soup theorists. 18:52:18 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:54:58 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:55:53 -!- Flun has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:00:21 FR: let's have dch -i recognize Crawl's changelog 19:01:16 we're sure we actually got the battlephere crashes now? 19:02:44 at least the one that was notorious on Windows 19:03:22 Cherry-picked 3 commits into stone_soup-0.12 19:03:22 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12.0-5-gdaecbb0: Changelog for 0.12.1 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=daecbb032905 19:04:08 are we unconcerned about this one where it does NULL->is_player(), then? 19:04:34 SamB: could you remind me where it comes from? 19:04:55 well I'm looking at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/v38m2y69t/crash-v38m2y69t-20130504-175229.txt 19:04:59 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 19:05:06 !lm * crash -log 19:05:07 4734. v38m2y69t, XL13 DECj, T:27668 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/v38m2y69t/crash-v38m2y69t-20130504-202452.txt 19:05:37 kilobyte: changelog typo report: there is no "Dazzling Sphere" 19:05:37 that's not the same one, obviously, but it might be basically the same 19:06:01 oh, this comes _after_ DracoOmega's fix 19:06:09 and looks like it's actually caused by it 19:06:44 yeah, I suspected as much 19:06:51 that's why I was asking DracoOmega if he'd looked at it 19:11:54 ??battlesphere 19:11:54 battlesphere[1/5]: BATTLESPHERE 19:11:58 ??battlesphere[2] 19:11:59 battlesphere[2/5]: Level 4 conjuration/charms, new in 0.12. Conjures an orb that follows the caster around and will fire at your target whenever you cast projectile-based conjurations. Does modest damage, but has good mp efficiency. 19:11:59 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- tswett is now known as ts 19:12:19 -!- ts is now known as tswett 19:12:25 ??dazzling spray 19:12:26 dazzling spray[1/1]: Level 3 conjuration/hexes, new in 0.12. Fires a spray of energy at up to 3 targets in the same general direction which deal some damage and can temporarly blind creatures which are neither nonliving nor undead if they fail an HD-based save. 19:12:57 * SamB uses ?/ ... 19:15:24 I can't seem to reproduce this :( 19:18:56 hmm, I did manage 19:19:07 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:49 hmm, I probably ought to update that GDB packaging to 7.6 ... 19:23:15 I can't reproduce it either, and I'm not even sure where is_player() is getting called from here 19:23:23 Though I am admittedly pretty tired now =/ 19:23:46 #6 0x0874db5a in monster::visible_to (this=0x8dd33a4 , looker=warning: (Internal error: pc 0x0 in read in psymtab, but not in symtab.) 19:23:46 0x0) at monster.cc:4810 19:23:46 #7 0x083b58ae in bolt::affect_cell (this=0xbfed7390) at beam.cc:1250 19:25:28 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 19:25:32 '&& (!is_tracer'? 19:25:36 But it IS a tracer 19:26:22 no, the visible_to 19:26:47 Oh, || not && 19:26:47 Silly me 19:28:10 Though you'd think if the agent wasn't set properly, this would always cause a problem? 19:29:12 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:29:22 * SamB doesn't know 19:29:36 What are we figuring out this time? 19:29:45 You gaze into the beam code. You are confused. 19:29:46 boolean logic. 19:29:55 I mean, it's easy to just explicitly set the agent, but it's hard to test if that's ultimately the problem if I can't actually produce the crash in the first place 19:30:12 Wait, I just got it then 19:32:13 should I have mentioned that it didn't happen until I tried on a bunch of dudes? 19:32:46 Well, I can reproduce it consistently once I realized why I couldn't 19:32:52 Try aiming PAST the target 19:32:55 Instead of directly at it 19:33:47 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:34:20 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 19:35:05 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:36:26 somebody really needs to blast the string comparisons with hellfire 19:36:40 There are about a bazillion string comparisons in beam.cc 19:37:00 Although I have made the crash seem to go away, I am left with a question of why it wasn't crashing at this BEFORE 19:37:03 The beam code is a monstrosity. 19:37:09 (It may or may not have tentacles.) 19:37:43 Since nothing at all has changed with the relevant data elements as far as I can see 19:37:54 DracoOmega: what did you do? 19:37:57 Previously I fired a bolt. Now I copy that bolt and then fire the copy 19:38:13 (The difference is that the copy has the proper flavor and other elements of the bolt filled out) 19:38:19 But that doesn't affect the agent in any way 19:38:22 Oh 19:38:29 you're sure about this? 19:38:29 This only happens if the beam is AUTOMATIC_HIT 19:38:35 Which previously it would not have been 19:39:05 if ((hit == AUTOMATIC_HIT && !is_beam && !ignores_monster(m)) 19:39:05 && (!is_tracer || m->visible_to(agent()))) 19:39:27 Since the beam info was filly improperly, magic dart would not have seemed to be AUTOMATIC_HIT and that check was skipped 19:39:34 you're really sure this doesn't copy the agent? 19:39:39 It does copy the agent 19:39:48 It's just that it wasn't properly set for the player yet either 19:40:21 But previously having an improper agent didn't matter, since the beam was not AUTOMATIC_HIT and thus it didn't try to check visibility 19:40:55 beam_source = 27000 isn't properly set? 19:41:38 hmm, I guess it isn't 19:41:43 okay, so I'm confused now 19:41:55 Yes, the proper agent info for the spell cast is set later on 19:42:04 -!- Frogz has quit [] 19:42:08 This is some default value, I guess? 19:42:29 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:37 -!- syraine has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:42:45 Battlesphere has to intercept the spellcast BEFORE it is fully filled out, since that is entwined with DOING stuff 19:43:09 Which changes the layout of stuff that battlesphere would be aiming at 19:43:10 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:16 maybe battlesphere should set the agent from the passed-in agent pointer? 19:43:42 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Quit: ckyle_] 19:44:05 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:44:08 Yes, I think that is all that is required 19:46:11 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:46:24 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:48:35 Hmmm... I think monster battlesphere is broken again 19:48:43 Though this is a 0.13 thing, most likely 19:48:56 Due to monster scheduling changes 19:49:27 Sometimes it is delayed in firing and then aims at the wrong spot afterward (ie: where you were LAST turn) 19:49:40 But that is a seperate and much less important problem 19:50:50 not relevant for 0.12, at least 19:51:06 Yeah 19:51:21 (Also, monsters with battlesphere mostly don't exist yet) 19:51:43 DracoOmega: mara cloned my battlesphere once 19:51:50 good feature 19:52:00 alefury: Did it function for either of you? 19:52:01 it was kinda sad, and i was a bit confused 19:52:06 i dont knwo 19:52:12 It probably dissipated immediately. 19:52:15 no 19:52:18 No? 19:52:26 I suspect it just wouldn't do anything 19:52:26 it said "your battlesphere seems to step out of itself" 19:52:37 and then there was a hostile battlesphere 19:52:57 it didnt seem to do anything, but i killed it so im not really sure 19:53:13 it was confused and lonely 19:53:18 I think it would not do anything, since its props would still link it to you, but your props wouldn't link you to it 19:53:26 i saved and copied the save i think, because i was expecting a crash 19:53:30 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:53:31 that *is* kind of sad 19:53:32 but there was no crash 19:53:36 Yes, the code there is a lot more robust than it used to be 19:53:43 do you want the save? 19:53:49 There used to be various crashes when odd things happened to the battlesphere 19:53:49 Nah 19:53:51 Your code feels robust (+10% cases handles). 19:53:55 s/handles/handled/ 19:54:17 I almost wonder if that's too harmlessly hilarious to fix, frankly :P 19:54:29 it makes mara a bit harmless 19:54:32 which is not great 19:54:41 mara is usually terrible 19:54:42 DracoOmega: what, to make Mara actually use it? 19:54:48 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:54:51 alefury: well mara already will sometimes copy junk allies 19:54:53 Well, isn't it really rare for Mara to clone something that isn't you? 19:54:54 nothing special about this 19:55:01 that seems bad 19:55:16 elliptic: are you calling battlespheres junk?? 19:55:18 I think it only happens when mara can see your allies but not you, maybe? 19:55:19 can mara still clone you if there is already a clone? 19:55:24 -!- Nikolaos has quit [] 19:55:27 I thought mara could clone as much as he wants, it's just once per monster to clone 19:55:28 elliptic: Yeah, I think so 19:55:28 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:37 Or at least I THOUGHT so 19:55:39 alefury: I don't think so but maybe tenofswords is right 19:55:48 if thats the case everything is fine :) 19:55:49 Mara is male? 19:55:52 yes 19:55:57 huh. 19:55:58 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:56:06 I thought that was a girl's name 19:56:08 the *lord* of illusions, or something 19:56:11 also I am wondering if cloned prisms still explode on the same timer 19:56:20 Mara Jade and all 19:56:22 tenofswords: I expect they should 19:56:33 good tv, mara cloning a prism and it exploding for a kill either way 19:56:52 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:05 :) 19:58:49 btw, can someone fix the changelog? 19:59:16 Okay, pushed to both branches 19:59:33 alefury: about which? 19:59:38 both things 19:59:47 -!- Nomi has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:48 blunt butchery and ctele changes 20:00:09 re changelog: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7838 20:00:23 people seem to actually read it, at least the tavern people 20:00:42 ctele changes are 0.13 only no 20:00:43 ? 20:00:55 elliott: indeed 20:01:03 yes, but theyre not in the 0.13 changelog, which claims to be up to date for some commit which is after the ctele changes 20:01:29 obviously we suck at changelogging 20:01:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:01:40 * Grunt hangs his head in shame. 20:01:55 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:02:15 hey, i missed blunt butchery when editing the 0.12 changelog. accidents happen. 20:02:46 recent crawl has the best food changes btw 20:02:51 best crawl ever 20:03:06 I'd say those changes are nauseating, but, well. 20:03:06 :D 20:03:18 levitation being gone is also extremely great 20:03:20 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:25 maybe more things like that can be done 20:03:29 (...and lest that confuse anyone, I approve of the change too!) 20:03:40 btw, we can probably remove some weapon-swap code from the butchery at some point? 20:03:42 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:01 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-582-gd4d2116: Fix a crash with aiming magic dart past monsters with a battlesphere out 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d4d2116d3a34 20:04:01 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 20:04:35 SamB: yes, you didnt really clean up after your butchery change :) 20:04:51 I tried once and it failed horribly 20:04:52 i guess it was better to see if it sticks first :) 20:05:21 butchering just ... didn't work ... 20:05:40 Well, now that we've butchered butchering... 20:05:45 * Grunt FLEEEEEES. 20:05:55 that's pretty much what I did at the time 20:06:44 starting sets are clearly so weak because the characters have been trained in being able to butcher without leaving blood splatters everywhere, also stomaching raw cockroach 20:07:34 the latter seems like a very useful skill in the dungeon 20:07:44 * geekosaur figures cockroaches are a delicacy somewhere 20:07:56 Koboldland? 20:08:05 not exactly delicacy, but they are edible and allegedly taste kind of good 20:08:21 a bit like peanuts 20:09:13 DracoOmega: do you think it 0.12 should work properly now? 20:09:22 DracoOmega: ie, safe enough to release 0.12.1? 20:09:32 it's worth remembering that in the bad old days, when the locusts swarmed, they were about the only thing on the menu 20:09:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 20:09:54 kilobyte: I THINK so, but of course I thought so earlier today, too =/ 20:09:58 they still are i think 20:10:15 kilobyte: did we fix the butchery changelog 20:10:53 kilobyte: and did you s/sphere/spray/ ? 20:12:54 it looks like neither of those things has happened yet 20:13:27 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:14:36 alefury: did someone write up the butchery changes yet? 20:16:16 not me 20:16:20 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:16:34 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:50 also i dont think anyone else did it 20:17:41 anyway, good night 20:17:43 -!- alefury has quit [] 20:18:43 ??butcher 20:18:43 butcher[1/1]: You can butcher. Unless you are in a form that can't wield weapons and isn't ice form, dragon form or blade hands. 20:19:13 does that seem an adequate description of how things stand? 20:19:17 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:38 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:19:46 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:06 well, it might confuse people if stated exactly like that in the changelog :P 20:20:33 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:58 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:21:08 got a better idea? 20:21:13 something like "You can butcher while wielding a cursed or otherwise unswappable weapon now." 20:21:25 s/unswappable/unswappable blunt/ 20:25:18 pushed 20:26:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:47 okay, that looks good 20:26:59 -!- Raycaster has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:48 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:29:49 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:30 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:38 what up 20:30:50 * SamB goes to verify the second battlesphere fix 20:34:22 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12.0-7-g36c417c: Mention cursed blunt butchery in the changelog. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=36c417c5807c 20:34:22 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12.0-8-g2a18737: s/dazzling sphere/dazzling spray/ in the changelog. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2a18737fd2d9 20:37:40 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:17 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:40:17 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 20:40:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:26 current layout project is looking kinda interesting: http://pbrd.co/127RqyN 20:41:50 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:00 that's all the same generator with different params, not all of these variants will exist in the end, but it's cool all the things it can do ;) 20:44:26 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:49 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:54 <|amethyst> mumra: parts of that look almost like a linear CA 20:45:06 parts of what? 20:45:06 nicolae-: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 20:45:09 oh, damn 20:45:11 !messages 20:45:11 (1/2) radiosilence said (2w 1d 23h 16m 22s ago): if you're still looking for more vaults to do, doing a little more work on that google doc listing all vaults made me notice there's not nearly enough branch-specific decorative vaults and lair branches, blade entries, tomb entries could use more variety 20:45:21 <|amethyst> nicolae-: mumra linked http://pbrd.co/127RqyN 20:45:23 !messages 20:45:24 (1/1) radiosilence said (2w 1d 23h 16m 15s ago): errr, lair branch entries 20:45:33 noted. 20:45:37 is radiosilence Hangedman 20:45:41 that guy has like eighty nicknames 20:45:42 is radiosilence tenofswords 20:45:42 |amethyst: what's a linear ca? 20:45:47 yes, I have to come up with more now 20:45:54 linear cellular automaton 20:46:12 does it matter when everybody can tell who it is from the text anyway 20:46:12 funny that, the layout is called layout_cellular_growth :P 20:46:29 which name should i use if i want to leave you a message 20:46:50 none 20:46:57 I will have already recieved it 20:47:03 Just announce your things here; they will be read. 20:47:11 <|amethyst> mumra: one-dimensional cellular automaton, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CA_rule110s.png or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CA_rule30s.png 20:47:13 whoa. you're like the panopticon 20:47:29 yeah i should do some decor vaults for the hells, i think 20:47:29 |amethyst: it actually starts with all cells as floor, plants some walls seeds, and then grows the walls by simple cellular rules 20:47:43 nicolae-: also, dragon's den! 20:47:55 yeah i actually started thinking about dragon's den the other day again 20:48:19 for a while i was thinking of making just some vaults for the hells based on the shapes of demonic sigils from like the Ars Goetia or the lesser key of solomon, because Thematic and some have neat shapes 20:48:34 i was also thinking of doing that for the Demon Pit portal except i scrapped that idea 20:48:36 <|amethyst> mumra: that would explain it. I was particularly thinking of the one in the upper-left, with the butterfly pattern 20:48:55 |amethyst: the cell sizes and positions are random, i need to try with regular grids as well, although sometimes this grid subdivides down to 1x1 cells and then you get regular results. it's a bit weirder where the cells don't overlap evenly. 20:49:59 (the butterfly pattern is a vault of course) but yeah the upper-left ones have a rule where walls are only allowed to grow next to a single adjacent wall which produces those kind of tendrils 20:50:05 also: http://pbrd.co/127RqyN those look cool 20:50:52 the ones with narrow hallways remind me of slime molds 20:51:09 (My, that was a yummy slime mold!) 20:51:43 Grunt: I still don't understand that 20:51:53 !send NetHack SamB 20:51:54 Sending SamB to NetHack. 20:52:04 I realized it's from nethack 20:52:09 but why does it DO that 20:52:20 Strange NH dev humour? 20:52:36 I guess it's the default favorite fruit? 20:52:42 Yes. 20:52:57 i just left it as slime mold 20:53:06 -!- serq has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:07 because if you wouldn't eat a slime mold i don't even want to know you 20:53:18 lol 20:53:24 In my NetHack days, I think I mostly used "YASD". 20:53:27 You see here a YASD. 20:53:33 This tastes like YASD juice. 20:53:33 <_< 20:53:43 ??YASD 20:53:43 yasd[1/1]: Yet another stupid death. 20:53:46 I eventually changed it to something else, but I can't remember what. 20:54:30 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: ded.] 20:54:53 oh, that reminds me, i did do up a possible alternative to shoalend, let me throw it up on the old 'stebin 20:55:26 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:36 I discovered recently that Shoals used to have non-hut endings. 20:55:39 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:55:46 They're terrible, terrible non-hut endings, but they did exist once. 20:55:59 here: http://pastebin.com/75PUz9aJ 20:56:05 what were they based on? 20:56:13 Uh, let me find this again. 20:56:15 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:55 https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/23c3aa27ef47afdb67e978aa8e6145662908417b/crawl-ref/source/dat/lair.des#line217 20:57:53 damn 20:58:18 -!- Raycaster has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:58:28 those are some whack-ass branch endings 20:58:45 fr: liquid rune of zot 21:01:38 -!- kickascii has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:02:07 -!- milankuntera has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:02:55 gaseous rune of zot 21:03:48 einstein bose condensate rune of zot 21:04:10 non-newtonian rune of zot 21:04:34 antirune of zot (explodes violently if you have any other rune with you, destroying both) 21:04:43 (found in hall of blades) 21:05:30 -!- Taynav has quit [] 21:07:40 -!- Cheibrodos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:08:23 -!- Boyo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:46 * geekosaur wonders what sneakiness could go with a mundane rune of zot 21:09:09 You see here a mundane rune of Zot. 21:09:18 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:09:19 You pick up the mundane rune and feel its lack of power. 21:09:38 it's just a chuck e. cheese token 21:09:42 Clearly the mundane rune is placed on the Zot portal <_< 21:10:38 fr: when suppressed all your runes are displayed as "mundane rune of zot" 21:11:23 a +0 rune of zot 21:11:45 You clumsily bash Cerebov with your mundane rune of Zot, but do no damage. 21:11:46 rune plus:0 ego:zot 21:13:14 mnoleg is the saddest pan lord, he wasn't even given a randart rune to guard, just some ego one 21:13:47 Fun fact: before we got our current gods, the major panlords had the names of gods. 21:14:02 (This was in pre-DCSS Crawl.) 21:14:10 what gods were in preDCSS 21:14:16 nemelex, okawaru, kiku, sif 21:14:35 so when is something going to be done about lom 21:15:45 nicolae-: by the time pre-DCSS Crawl was reaching the end of its life, it had Zin, TSO, Kiku, Yred, Xom, Vehumet, Okawaru, Makhleb, Sif, Trog, Nemelex, and Ely. 21:16:28 but it never had lugafu the hairy 21:16:39 what 21:16:42 rip Lugafu 21:16:55 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:07 we even removed his disciples 21:18:30 who was lugafu 21:18:51 Lugafu was essentially a Trog prototype, as far as we've collectively been able to discern. 21:19:00 Never actually appeared enabled in the game anywhere. 21:19:16 i see 21:20:07 was there ever any discerning of what exactly dorghis did 21:20:25 It was spelled Dorgi in game... 21:20:33 I remember looking into this at one point, but I can't remember what I found out. 21:20:52 was dorghis another god that never got fully implemented 21:20:59 Dorgi were monsters. 21:21:05 ah 21:21:07 ??dorgi 21:21:08 dorgi[1/2]: These existed (along with guardian robots in Zot) in pre-3.40 versions of (non-Stone-Soup) Crawl. 21:21:08 ??dorgi[2 21:21:08 dorgi[2/2]: http://pastebin.com/GVjqaPkQ 21:21:21 Have you ever wondered about, 21:21:22 ??psyche[2 21:21:23 psyche[2/2]: YOU ARE VIOLATING AREA SECURITY!!! 21:22:18 hey dracoomega can we give dorgi lines to the vault @s 21:23:13 "The Vaults Psychiatrist screams "SUBMIT TO THERAPY OR DIE!"" 21:23:33 perfect 21:25:12 As far as I can tell, dorgi had a spell called "zulzer blast" which was effectively a fixed-damage crystal spear. 21:25:36 (Probably more accurate than a crystal spear, but still.) 21:25:47 ".Leave,. said Codlugarthia. Then: .I do not wish to have to repeat myself. Nor do I wish to have to raise my voice.. In answer, the dorgi trained the snouts of its zulzer upon the heroic Ashdan. Then it fired. Belatedly, the dorgi remembered: it was out of ammunition. It did not hesitate: it charged." 21:25:52 ...??? 21:25:56 ... 21:26:36 -!- magicallyrical has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:26:52 apparently this is a reference to hugh cook's books, who I have never heard of before 21:28:35 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:30:24 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:35:55 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:02 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:38:31 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 21:40:11 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 21:40:44 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:00 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:45 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 21:57:24 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 21:58:44 -!- eeviac has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:59:43 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:04 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:57 -!- Zelda has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:17 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:05:17 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:05:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:06:05 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 22:07:59 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:28 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:14:31 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:18:08 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:21:17 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:22:50 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:25:13 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:28:06 mumra: Sorry to bother you, but is there another place containing ??layouts[2] referant? I couldn't get around google docs' login requirement before to give you that confirm. 22:28:07 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:28:16 But for newness, I've found a more extremem version of the wall-embedded door in Snake:5, and my character is looking at it with Dowsing. I think if an area was Ruined that badly, it should have crushed the door. 22:28:35 ??layouts[2] 22:28:35 layouts[2/2]: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdEJ4WnFDQjZhcGgyS3puWk1zQU9saEE contains a list of D's layouts by depth and weight, and a full map-to-name chart. 22:28:35 haha 22:28:39 possibly a good point 22:28:56 i'm pretty certain it will be the cave_town layout, are you online somewhere? or can you take a screenshot and pasteboard it? 22:29:25 mumra: are you some kind of spreadsheetologist? Those are some complex docs 22:29:34 no it's mine 22:29:46 Well, I thought you'd just look at the dump, or check the save: Nivim on CAO. I think I'm a bit confused about how these reports are usually done. 22:30:15 -!- syraine has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:30:19 -!- JamezQ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:38 i'm bad at use !lm tbh :( 22:30:51 !dump nivim 22:30:53 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Nivm/Nivm.txt 22:30:59 No. 22:31:25 I need to figure out how to force it to take my latest game instead of the old nick. 22:31:25 after doing all that I had ideas about keeping the simple layouts have a higher weight on the earlier part of the dungeon and then organize pairs of simple and complex layouts for the complex layouts to take their weights in late D 22:31:51 like e.g. forbidden donut : big_grid, cross : hall_layers, loops_misc : loops_cross and loops_corners, uh 22:31:58 long_grid : waterfall 22:32:01 do you know if it works doing e,g, WEIGHT: 100 (D:1-10), 20 (D:11-20) 22:32:17 so the same layout can have different weights in different depth ranges 22:32:22 that would work, yes 22:32:44 figuring out ideal pairings or transitions being the main issue here 22:33:52 Nivim: the cave_town layout is the only one I know that can do that kind of thing. what I could fairly easily do is run a pass at the end that eliminates such doors. although it could be entertaining if someone is running away from something dangerous and tries to flee through a door only to discover wall on the other side. 22:34:01 but that's not likely to happen or be relevant very often at all... 22:35:12 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:35:42 tenofswords: the question with that complexity is will it actually be particularly noticable from the player's perspective? 22:36:32 yes some of the new ones are effectively more variable versions of the old simple ones (donut/big_grid, cross/hall_layers etc.) 22:36:52 i was going to just leave the simple ones on a low weight in the same sort of depth range 22:37:03 the kind of idea i'm favouring at the moment is the transition to more open layouts in late D 22:37:26 and i'm thinking a kind of region of more built-up layouts (e.g. city-style stuff) in the mid-range of levels 22:37:52 I prefer simplicity to complexity because then it doesn't involve balance implications 22:38:00 and the early levels the more chaotic stuff with lots of narrow corridors where survivability is more tenuous and it's less easy to mitigate the problems caused by open layouts 22:38:14 a bit while back when I brought up the idea: 22:38:16 "20:38:57 it seems that it would be a cool reward when a player makes it deeper to get to see these more exciting layouts then, and simpler layouts earlier makes it easier for newer players to concentrate on other stuff" 22:38:20 pfft, balance :P 22:38:47 open early layouts are interesting 22:38:48 yeah, that is a good point, i didn't see when elliptic said that 22:39:07 * SamB is pretty sure he agreed then 22:39:39 I prefer simplicity to complexity 22:39:42 I wasn't thinking about balance really, just that simpler layouts are less distracting for players who still need to pick up basic crawl tactics 22:39:44 elliott: i'm talking in a more generalised sense, there should always be something of a mixture, i'm just talking about favouring more towards open layouts later on; still there would be occasional early open ones 22:39:59 and late closed ones of course 22:40:04 st_: shut up :P 22:40:19 simpler doesn't really mean open or closed IMO 22:40:25 no 22:41:22 i definitely like the idea that more interesting / striking layouts come later, it's a bit of a reward like you said, and also a feeling of the dungeon getting weirder the deeper you go 22:41:26 could, ahem, put some layout names to simple and complex 22:42:01 the problem is some layouts can be either simple or complex depending on how they turn out ... 22:42:12 clearly your fault there 22:42:48 e.g. big_grid which can be an exact replica of forbidden_donut if it wants to 22:43:10 (well, apart from the jam that the donut sometimes gets) 22:43:48 forbidden donut really rarely gets ruination, big_grid doesn't 22:43:51 what kind of jam? 22:43:55 anyway i think simple/complex is a hard distinction to pin down 22:44:00 SamB: lava jam 22:44:01 of course 22:44:08 it doesn't have to be a perfect analogy of simple and complex, just a slight split 22:44:16 I was going to ask "like, raspberry?" 22:44:28 eel jam 22:44:33 yeah but layout_basic i would call a complex layout, but we still want it early 22:44:54 so i don't know if it's a useful or meaningful distinction in all cases 22:44:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:45:14 * tenofswords shrugs 22:47:04 i would actually call all the grids "simple". they're just a grid of corridors, not even any rooms 22:47:41 I don't actually know layout names very well, but to me "simple" often means that the layout is fairly uniform: stuff like forbidden_donut, cross, big_octagon, roguey 22:48:07 it certainly isn't a very well-defined term 22:48:16 yeah, that is a good way to define it 22:48:17 elliptic: ??layout[2] 22:48:39 but even those layouts can end up looking more complex, e.g. cross gets spotty applied sometimes, and then it looks like a completely different cave layout 22:49:14 of course we can do stuff to only apply effects like that in particular depth ranges 22:49:50 whereas the grids are always really very uniform and regular really 22:50:09 i'd say they're somewhere on the dividing line between simple and complex, depending how they generate 22:50:56 (the grids i'm talking about are long_grid, small_grid, and big_grid images in the layouts[2] spreadsheet) 22:51:18 actually grid_shapes as well but that is slightly more complex 22:52:55 bh: did you see my new layout pics btw - http://pbrd.co/127RqyN 22:53:54 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:54:06 i would efinitely call this "complex" 22:54:11 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:55:32 mumra: @fleefail. Certainly; my problem was mostly the weirdness of seeing several finely built doors in the middle of nowhere. This http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Nivim/Nivim.txt was what I was talking about this time. I saw it on the map and thought it was going to be a cool 3x3 OoD monster and treasure vault, but then I looked closer... 22:55:39 2nd row 2nd map has a very hangedman looking centre 22:56:06 (That is, the little txt-map on the dump.) 22:56:21 yes that is a vault I made 22:56:49 hangedman_decor_cross_pass 22:57:09 I should stop relying on grids for shapes 22:57:27 mumra: whoa. 22:57:32 well that one looks quite nice 22:57:59 looking at that briefly, some layouts that feel a bit more "complex" to me (not intended as a complete list): loops_*, twisted_cavern, cave_town, hall_layers, cave_shapes, waterfall, grid_shapes, stronghold, honeycomb 22:58:17 Nivim: huh, i'm not actually sure about that, it's not the layout i was thinking of; that looks like a Snake:5 rune vault in most of that map section? 22:58:25 Yep. 22:58:35 The stairs were about 10 steps from the rune. 22:58:47 (With dig.) 22:59:03 some of those, like honeycomb or twisted_cavern, aren't complicated conceptually but involve rooms and walls in many different geometric configurations at different locations 22:59:12 Nivim: did you make a save backup? 22:59:19 which I think makes them more complicated in play 22:59:20 How do I do that? 22:59:25 ??save backup 22:59:26 I don't have a page labeled save_backup in my learndb. 22:59:31 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 22:59:34 if you log in via console you can do it from the menu 22:59:39 K. 22:59:57 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:21 elliptic: agreed. 23:01:54 (honeycomb is an infiniplex layout, i encountered it in a game recently and it was one of the most fun layouts i've played i think) 23:02:12 -!- Nivm has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:16 but definitely kept me constantly on my toes 23:02:49 (Don't remember how to paste from another F-terminal.) http://crawl.akrasiac.org/saves/Nivim-crawl-git-5790aa0031-130505-0000.tar.bz2 23:06:22 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:37 Nivim: huh, i have no idea how that door got there, it is one of my layouts but it's not even supposed to generate any doors 23:08:26 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:08:35 OH 23:08:37 wait, i see 23:08:42 Yesss! 23:09:48 well ... i see but i don't see 23:12:19 is arachne intended to have a skeleton? 23:12:30 "Z Arachne the skeleton" 23:12:39 no base monster type listed or anything, not sure if this is intended behavior 23:12:39 ah, tenofswords has gone, he could have interpreted the SHUFFLE commands 23:13:01 Nivim: that rune vault is snake_hunt and for some reason the left-hand lung sometimes fills in but doesn't fill in the door 23:13:41 ??morningstar 23:13:41 so it's actually at least nothing to do with any of my layout code which i thought it was for a second ;) 23:13:41 morningstar[1/1]: A mace-group weapon. Not nearly as good as its big sister, the eveningstar. Damage: 10. Accuracy: -1. Delay: 15. In 0.12+, Damage: 13, Accuracy: -2, Delay: 15. 23:15:39 Nivim: ok it was a slight error in the vault definition, i have a fix which i'll push when i push a bunch of other stuff 23:16:34 oh, gah, it's not that simple 23:18:11 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18:11 -!- WesterAlt is now known as Wester 23:18:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:41 !tell hangedman at some point when you get a chance could you take a quick look at snake_hunt? it produces an isolated door quite often where one of the Y's is but i can't figure out how to untangle the SHUFFLEs to fix this ... 23:20:41 mumra: OK, I'll let hangedman know. 23:20:55 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:23:00 -!- sildraith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:55 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:02 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:26:56 I have a sneaking suspicion that boulder beetles aren't affected by clouds while rolling 23:27:09 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:28:46 boulderform rEverything 23:28:54 G-Flex: hmm, maybe they should stop rolling every so often to breathe ... 23:29:06 for quite a while there was a bug where they resisted any melee attack 23:29:31 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 23:29:34 boulder beetle improvements are somewhere on my todo list 23:29:53 it's a bit silly how if they roll past you they'll keep on rolling to the other side of the level if nothing gets in their way 23:30:03 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:44 yeah, this one was rolling through multiple pcloud tiles 23:30:47 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:30:48 without being affected by them 23:31:00 Uh, 23:31:03 boulder beetle (15B) | Spd: 6 | HD: 9 | HP: 60-91 | AC/EV: 20/2 | Dam: 45 | Res: 06magic(36) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 159 | Sz: Big | Int: insect. 23:31:03 %??boulder beetle 23:31:12 ....right, they are poison-vulnerable. 23:31:17 yeah, I /could/ poison it 23:31:19 just not with that while rolling 23:32:46 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:34:05 hmm, since it exits out the movement function at the same time as iood, maybe it doesn't get as far as cloud checks? 23:36:02 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:36:45 -!- soundlust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:24 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:44:31 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 23:49:16 I really like evilmike's sk book 23:49:52 not sure about spirit shield though 23:50:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53:17 -!- eeviac_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:55:22 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:53 -!- eeviac has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:56:57 -!- eeviac_ is now known as eeviac