00:00:36 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-b1-140-g6c240a7 00:01:43 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-512-gffa3d37 (34) 00:02:04 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:02:17 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:45 Pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-b1-140-g6c240a7 (34) 00:10:46 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-512-gffa3d37 (34) 00:11:38 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:35 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:29:58 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 00:33:31 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-512-gffa3d37 00:35:15 03elliptic 07* 0.13-a0-513-gc895138: Add a spell power # for 200 power, remove the one for 5 power. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c89513845bb1 00:36:08 elliptic: your commit message is somewhat lacking in grammar 00:36:34 oh it had a # in it that was treated as a comment 00:36:36 oh well 00:36:47 people will get the idea 00:42:52 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:00 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:49:26 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:04:28 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19:07 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:23:30 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:29:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:43:06 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:56:54 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:57:39 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:04 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:00:35 -!- wtface has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 02:13:02 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:13:13 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 02:24:53 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:27:43 -!- Ursa2 has quit [] 02:31:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:46:03 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:49 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 02:53:44 anyone know if there's a plan for when 0.12 will be released? Might be a good idea to get it done with soon, unless there are some major bugs blocking it 02:53:50 it's ok to come out a bit before the tournament, right? 03:00:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:20 I tried to suggest that we get it out by May 1st at the very latest, a while back 03:05:39 But I am not set up to handle all the binary stuff myself, so someone else would have to 03:05:49 And I don't think anything very decisive came of it 03:05:51 -!- bza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:45 The only 'major bug' that I know of is related to potions of experience on OS X, and this is fixed by using a different compiler, it seems. I don't know exactly what needs to be done to handle that, moving forward, but it would seem that simply using a working compiler for the release binaries there would be enough? 03:06:51 But it's a little outside my domain 03:07:13 I can't think of any other especially important bugs otherwise 03:07:39 Well, I mean there's always a large handful of little stuff, but if we had to wait for all of them to be fixed before releasing a new stable version, it would probably never happen :P 03:10:36 -!- eb has quit [] 03:11:14 i think may 1st sonuds good 03:11:25 I haven't been totally up to date recently but it looks like 0.12 is in good shape 03:11:41 I think the only missing bit really is someone to do the work 03:11:45 Or someoneS 03:11:48 heh 03:12:00 I think kilobyte usually handles the binary end of things? 03:12:21 I don't really feel qualified, given that I haven't even touched linux in about 10 years :P 03:12:22 I think mainly it just needs someone(s) with the time/ability to do the stuff in docs/develop/release.txt, yes 03:12:38 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 03:14:50 any missing tiles? 03:15:18 i guess ontoclasm would know 03:15:19 Evoking cloak of the thief, and meatsprint, I think. 03:15:49 I mean, meatsprint using the normal monster tiles seems suboptimal, but not worth holding a release up for 03:17:30 it would be nice to have something, even a pallete-swap (say, an ogre coloured to look like it has no skin) 03:17:57 Yes. Well, it's been mentioned a few times for a while and nothing has come of it, either 03:18:34 Like, it would be good to have, but I don't like the idea of this adding (weeks?) to the release date 03:19:34 Since so far there has been no indication of it happening 03:20:25 yeah I wouldn't let this block us 03:21:04 A new tileset for them could always be added in a minor release 03:23:42 by the way, someone should read over the manual for outdated information 03:25:14 I might be able to do this sometime in the next day or two, though probably I should finish updating the tourney rules page first 03:25:26 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:26:05 That is actually edited on the dev wiki, yes? 03:26:19 yeah 03:26:38 it needs to be synced into git before release, too 03:26:42 Is this actually the current up to date version? https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:manual:rest 03:26:52 yes 03:26:57 Since it still doesn't mention CSZO (which means that 0.11 didn't either, despite it existing then?) 03:27:57 I guess, yes 03:28:22 Wow, there's actually a bunch of stuff that's really old here 03:28:37 "For some backgrounds 03:28:37 these species may seem to have very few starting skills because they haven't 03:28:37 quite earned the first level of several of their skills (Centaurs are often 03:28:37 subject to this and non-human Wanderers can appear to start with no skills at 03:28:37 all)." 03:28:57 Which was wrong for 0.11, too 03:29:16 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:30:38 yeah its good to clean that up before release. I think its in the checklist 03:30:48 evilmike: yeah, that's what reminded me about it 03:30:52 -!- gowby has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:31:28 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:41:35 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:28 -!- Nareusm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:59:44 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 04:04:08 -!- RZX has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:13 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:37 Idea: A fixed-art that has sweet bonuses but INCREASES your LoS 04:16:16 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:26:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:09 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28:58 Paster the Protected (L10 HOFi) ASSERT(item.base_type == OBJ_ARMOUR) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1150 failed on turn 9352. (D:8) 04:30:40 Looks like running generated tile PNGs through pngcrush would save a lot of bandwidth. 04:31:05 From 4.2M to 3M of sent images by WebTiles 04:31:42 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:35:06 And enabling gzip content-encoding saves another 0.9M 04:35:28 5.2M to 3.1M total 04:40:14 !tell edlothiol Any reason why Content-Encoding: gzip isn't enabled on WebTiles server? Simple "gzip": True setting for tornado.web.Application saves 0.9M of bandwidth 04:40:15 Medar: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 04:45:49 -!- Twinge has quit [] 05:03:59 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 05:16:01 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:22:11 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:09 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:59 Medar: uhm, all built tile data goes through optipng|advpng, which are world better than pngcrush 05:39:31 Medar: (I never tested if the relevant Makefile rule works in webtiles, though) 05:39:37 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:39:57 Lightli: not doable because of tinyterms 05:40:23 Hmm, maybe it's because I was doing a debug build, oops 05:41:14 DracoOmega: actually, Linux distributions are thoroughly tested thanks to public servers and most of devteam, it's Windows _installer_ that causes most woe on release time 05:41:19 Or maybe I'm missing the tools and they are optional 05:41:37 Medar: either cause would be enough, yeah 05:42:32 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:43:12 DracoOmega: you'd need a farm of different versions of Windows (I have them in VMs), and do at least install+run+kill a monster+save+reload+die test for a representative sample 05:44:39 (that oddly specific list has something to do with point releases just after a previous release :p) 05:46:35 Yep, it optimises the pngs fine. My bad. 05:47:04 cool 05:58:05 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:05:12 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:17:23 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:33 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:20:54 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 06:23:33 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 06:33:47 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:35:42 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:11 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-514-g0387c0a: Enable gzip encoding for Webtiles (Medar). 10(49 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0387c0aff6f5 06:39:11 03Kyle Fox 07* 0.13-a0-515-g8e1f0a7: Enabled aptitudes and species info hotkeys to work when selecting character. 10(11 days ago, 2 files, 24+ 16-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8e1f0a710952 06:39:11 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-516-g43fc226: Simplify and rename a function. 10(28 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43fc22653490 06:39:11 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-517-gb018072: Fix using the help during character creation in Webtiles (#6933). 10(26 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b018072a234c 06:39:11 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-518-gf194732: Fix WebTiles handling of keys made with AltGr 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f194732fce78 06:42:35 -!- Porost has quit [Client Quit] 06:51:55 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 06:56:34 -!- pantaril has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:29 -!- Porost has quit [Quit: fgtuhy6YuivghuyYttFgbn] 07:13:25 -!- Flun has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:14 -!- sbanwart has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:28:13 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:36:31 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:45:06 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:48:46 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:06:57 -!- Krenium has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:07:02 -!- Nivim has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:07:54 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:17 Ctrl-F "wand" causes crash (savefile included) by gooby 08:24:59 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: rivs is afk (probably sleeping)] 08:30:57 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:41 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:43 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:08 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:01:05 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:06:14 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:42 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:06:53 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07:52 -!- Zermako has quit [] 09:09:21 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:09:26 -!- Wehk has quit [Client Quit] 09:13:52 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:53 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 09:14:05 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:16:59 -!- Raycaster has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:19:34 -!- Jabol has quit [] 09:20:39 ophanim (L27 TrAr) (Blade) 09:20:42 ophanim (L27 TrAr) (Blade) 09:21:05 ophanim (L27 TrAr) (Blade) 09:21:55 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:12 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:33 I got a bunch of crashes in blade but I don't know why. Seems to happen when animated weapons hit me. Not really sure what else to say as the lm isn't giving me anything useful. 09:26:57 I think the issue is related to you disarming the dancing weapon with that new jiyva mutation 09:27:09 "Your tendrils lash around the anti-magic broad axe's anti-magic broad axe and pull it to the ground!" 09:27:55 nice 09:28:04 oh, yes, that makes sense 09:28:12 The crash itself is from something related to trying to draw the tile for the weapon or item 09:28:23 stupid tiles 09:28:26 But probably other things would go horribly wrong anyway 09:28:32 If you had a dancing weapon with no weapon 09:29:36 clearly what I need to do now is find a scroll of acq 09:30:07 Seems an easy fix, though 09:30:14 Just don't let it disarm dancing weapons 09:31:23 And why is that? Because Blade is crash for you and you need a better weapon? 09:31:28 About the ?aquirement, I mean 09:32:20 Because I can have a fix and rebuild in a few minutes, really 09:33:24 I'd just go into blade and acq until I got something really good 09:33:38 I'm a troll, I'm just doing blade to pass time while gf showers 09:33:45 Oh, haha 09:35:38 Crash on demand bugs are usually funny, it's rare I find out one though 09:39:31 Well, I imagine this is a fairly rare circumstance 09:39:53 Requiring one specific Jivya mutation and one relatively uncommon monster 09:41:19 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-519-gab65062: Don't let slimy tendrils disarm dancing weapons' weapons 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab650623625b 09:44:25 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:42 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:47:05 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:06 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:20 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:54:22 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 09:54:27 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:54:52 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:38 Zin polymorph protection message showed up, but I still polymorphed by morik 10:02:33 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04:39 DracoOmega: Uncommon, but 100% possible to encounter. 10:04:59 Well, yes? I mean, it was found because it was encountered. 10:05:11 I just meant that it's the kind of bug that could plausibly go a long time before it was bumped into 10:06:28 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:42 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:18:32 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:16 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:26:58 -!- scummos_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:28:55 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:06 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:25 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33:22 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:34:04 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 10:35:08 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:14 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:37:22 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:37:44 mumra: someone posted this lair:2 map on somethingawful, is this a recent thing that can happen? http://puu.sh/2ILND.png 10:37:52 note that all 6 stairs are inthat tiny cave 10:38:05 ... 10:38:15 That has the look of a mumra layout. 10:38:21 i've seen small maps before but never THAT small 10:38:53 the lack of corpses is odd though... one would think that space would be packed with monsters, unless there's some big disconnected area 10:39:11 hello what what 10:39:11 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:39:17 !!messages 10:39:26 !messages 10:39:27 (1/1) HangedMan said (15h 49m 8s ago): something I noticed in the midst of all of these layouts: surely there could be more than a single layout using disconnected zones like layout_caves 10:39:30 I did get a tiny lair map recently 10:40:06 (meaning sometime within the past week; doubt I could find the game again...) 10:40:55 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:45:04 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:48 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:49:52 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:42 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:38 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 11:00:41 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:01:37 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:09 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:56 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:28:35 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:36 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Quit: ckyle_] 11:29:25 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:30 -!- mumra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:51 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:34:03 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:55 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:36 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:38:36 -!- ckyle_ is now known as ckyle 11:55:32 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:04:09 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:20 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12-b1-140-g6c240a7 12:12:10 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:13:06 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:14:08 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:21 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-519-gab65062 (34) 12:15:33 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:16:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:20:49 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:26:42 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:32:14 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:02 -!- Boyo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:14 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:40:12 -!- simpaon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:41:33 -!- santiago has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:49 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:47 remove vault redefined monsters by st 12:49:41 * SamB hopes we still have a spriggan baker 12:49:43 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 12:51:23 I left one 12:56:41 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:00:27 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:01:24 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:02:39 there goes all the flavor... 13:03:37 yes, all that flavour provided by hungry kobolds 13:03:59 that you can clearly infer yourself 13:04:44 some of the vaults are harmless 13:05:05 i find them to be cute 13:05:19 * SamB kind of liked hungry kobolds, it was the corpses that were a bit odd 13:07:10 hrm, looking at that patch, it just axes vaults without looking whether they cause problems or not 13:07:32 what's wrong with one-off vaults that have no corpses or do corpses right, etc? 13:08:04 I'd say it's runtime lua that needs to go (ie, questy scripts that run after the map has been generated), renames can be good 13:08:15 true, the corpses from that vault have always been weird 13:08:28 like what vaults 13:10:25 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:39 -!- nubcakes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:21:48 -!- Sepik121 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:23:53 so this removes vaults like the sewer with the sickly mermaid? 13:24:54 yeah, I see no harm in that mermaid, and a regular one would be too hard for Sewer 13:25:17 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:16 New branch created: djinn (0 commits) 13:33:27 the patch does not in fact seem to remove that mermaid... 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-520-gcc330ea: Gather some smokeless fire, and call in DJ Inn. 10(1 year, 1 month ago, 8 files, 78+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cc330ea7dbbe 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-521-g6add2e3: Djinn: they're, like, pretty hot. 10(8 days ago, 5 files, 40+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6add2e31c183 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-522-g3982d0a: Djinn: go breatharian, man! 10(4 days ago, 5 files, 23+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3982d0a6b466 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-523-g88c0ea9: Djinn: the munchies make them glow. 10(4 days ago, 5 files, 30+ 12-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=88c0ea9d7ce1 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-524-g13e1785: Djinn: they bask in the glow. 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=13e17859e136 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-525-gf401230: Djinn: their life is magic. 10(17 hours ago, 10 files, 85+ 29-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f40123031f16 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-526-g2e45d69: Djinn: look, ma, no legs! 10(16 hours ago, 2 files, 4+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2e45d69132e6 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-527-ga456ec0: Djinn: up, up, awaay! 10(20 hours ago, 10 files, 37+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a456ec0fdf5c 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-528-gdcee277: Djinn: gone fishin'. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 19+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dcee277b902f 13:34:23 03kilobyte 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-529-g36f3665: Djinn: stealing their magic makes them true monsters. 10(47 minutes ago, 16 files, 63+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=36f366504468 13:35:10 kilobyte: will we get a bottled djinn at some point if this goes ahead? :b 13:35:29 kilobyte: quality commit text here 13:36:43 elliptic: commit messages have some actual discussion, and the primary ones are not so important on initial commits (as opposed to changes to existing code) 13:37:41 kilobyte: I meant it as a compliment! really I meant the titles 13:37:54 ah heh :p 13:38:42 Sif and probably Vehu are massively overpowered, not sure how to handle them 13:39:35 -!- Leissi has quit [Quit: As I watched my fellow psychiatrists on the slopes today, I realized: I've never seen so many freudians slip.] 13:39:54 maybe sif and veh are racist against djinn for some reason and wont accept them as followers? 13:40:37 you mean, gods of magic vs a creature whose very life is magic? 13:40:39 * SamB wonders what we can do to make detecting monsters work on visible squares ... 13:40:59 I couldn't think of a good reason for them to not accept them 13:41:00 I have problems with balancing the numbers, not the design 13:42:04 balls of energy, on the other hand, would need to work completely different, as looking at percentage of MP left and draining it all to 0 on failure are not really good options 13:42:26 SamB: you mean, invisible ones? 13:42:46 kilobyte: what else? 13:43:04 there seems to be nothing preventing it working when you *can't* see where they are 13:43:25 submerged/merged into air, too 13:43:38 except for current implementation, yeah 13:43:59 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:38 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:02 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:42 kilobyte: so what about water spells? 13:45:55 "Water, even shallow, is deadly" 13:46:12 the trouble is that the view code seems to totally clear all map_knowledge cells in LoS ... 13:46:26 druids and vampires, djinn and aquamancers 13:46:38 (and elemental escorts but who's counting here) 13:47:08 alefury: the only water spell is aquamancer's wave, yeah. On the writeup, I forgot about it. 13:47:31 so is there going to be absolutely no discussion of what it means to have a patch on mantis that removes vault monsters 13:48:52 i think there are uses of vault monsters that are fine, and removing all of them would be a silly thing to do 13:49:23 tenofswords: we didn't discuss the fact that it's on mantis as such, certainly 13:49:45 peh 13:49:55 well that alone will mean something when it's not pushed! 13:50:18 would a Fire apt of +4 be too much? Current branch has Fire +3, Spc +1. 13:50:35 !apt de 13:50:35 DE: Fighting: -2*, Short: 0, Long: -1, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: 0, Slings: -2, Bows: 1, Xbows: -1, Throw: 1, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 3, Stab: 1, Shields: -2, Traps: 0, UC: -2*, Splcast: 3!, Conj: 1, Hexes: 3, Charms: 4!, Summ: 1, Nec: 2!, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: 1, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 2, Exp: -1, HP: -2, MP: 3! 13:50:48 !apt dr[red] 13:50:49 Dr[red]: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: N/A, Dodge: -1, Stealth: 0, Stab: 0, Shields: 0, Traps: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 2!, Ice: -2, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: -1, HP: 1, MP: 0 13:50:54 i like the idea of a mp-based race, but i still don't really like djinns flavor-wise 13:51:18 kilobyte: +3 is plenty, I'd say 13:51:42 for example it'd be nice if st_ said anything about why he left certain vault monsters alone like e.g. the vehumet vaults' statues 13:51:46 Eronarn: as in, moon trolls, but not with the hunger->glow thingy? 13:52:26 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:27 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:52:54 kilobyte: i was thinking some kind of spirit, but yeah 13:52:57 and yeah, involving glow is bad 13:53:02 this comes from Light, not sure if that's the best idea 13:53:09 plenty of fun arguments about "why not let crawl play speak for itself instead of a one-off chunk of text and a name and colour change that implies a distinct monster in the way that the game is already filled with indistinct opposite monsters" 13:54:57 I guess Fire +3, Conj +1, Spc +1 made me think of Tengu more as a comparison than those other two 13:55:22 is my microphone on 13:55:52 !apt te 13:55:53 Te: Fighting: 0, Short: 1, Long: 1, Axes: 1, Maces: 1, Polearms: 1, Staves: 1, Slings: 0, Bows: 1, Xbows: 1, Throw: 1, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 1, Stab: 1, Shields: 0, Traps: 0, UC: 1!, Splcast: -1, Conj: 3!, Hexes: -3, Charms: -2, Summ: 2!, Nec: 1, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -2, Fire: 1, Ice: -1, Air: 3!, Earth: -3*, Poison: 0, Inv: -1*, Evo: 1, Exp: 0, HP: -2, MP: 1 13:57:25 I like the unique monster vaults, usually 13:57:47 but what do you mean by unique monster 13:57:49 They kind of look similar in a lot of ways apt-wise although certainly not every way 13:57:53 depends on the monster. "glowing angel" (to mark worship of Zin rather than TSO) quite fails it, "strawberry plant" serves no real purpose, but what's wrong with for example "skeletal archer"? 13:57:56 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:58:15 saves you having to read the "comes into view wielding foo" line 13:58:18 does it count "skeleton warrior with a bow when skeleton warrior usually don't have bows and there is a" 13:58:41 why would you not read the usually potentially quite important "comes into view wielding foo" message 13:58:46 like the sickly mermaid sewer, spriggan baker, etc 13:59:00 the patch doesn't delete spriggan baker or sickly mermaid 13:59:20 there is zero point to renaming something skeletal archer 13:59:21 well, it deletes _a_ spriggan baker but not the food vault one 13:59:34 don't suppose you have a list, st_? 13:59:35 should I rename something to Bardiche Kobold 13:59:40 i don't know about 'zero' point 14:00:08 tenofswords: of what 14:00:31 of the monsters removed and the monsters kept because that's twice now people have presumed something was cut by the patch when it isn't 14:00:34 it deletes the baker 14:00:49 or, axing all vaults with a statue, what's the point? 14:00:49 it doesn't delete the food vault baker 14:00:50 it deletes one of them 14:00:57 st_: something like 'kobold sniper' for a kobold with a crossbow would be perfectly reasonable, it's flavorful and the cognitive load is a wash between the addition of a new monster name vs. that new monster name hinting at something 14:01:11 flavorful 14:01:20 Eronarn: if we want kobold snipers they should be added as monsters 14:01:25 people like finding things they haven't seen before 14:01:27 not redefined in a vault 14:01:27 kilobyte: it deletes a baker in an encompass vault 14:01:30 new proposal, monster names change procedurally based on what they get "what could be difficult about monsters changing" 14:01:31 not the spriggan baker vault 14:01:47 st_: well, i think that some vault monsters would make fine new monsters, yes 14:01:48 they can find things they haven't seen before in the sense of a vault being a bloody vault 14:02:01 but not sickly mermaids and stuff 14:02:02 tenofswords: you seem to feel strongly about this 14:02:26 if only hangedman was still around he might bring something to the discussion 14:02:28 alefury: tenofswords and I are fed up of terrible vaults 14:02:42 the quality has been slipping and slipping 14:02:45 what st_ said 14:02:47 personally i find many of the functionally different monsters annoying 14:03:00 the ones with just a flavorful addition to their name are fine imo 14:03:28 do you need to spell it out to the player? 14:03:40 sometimes, yes 14:03:41 I'm actually sort of the opposite 14:03:47 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:03:48 Unless it's a humerous one-off 14:04:09 yes 14:04:14 even the rogue gallery isn't that bad. It has balance issues, but causes no bugs other serial vaults are free of. 14:04:21 (But also, I don't think I agree with all the statue removal, even though some of the other stuff like renamed plants seem fine to cut) 14:04:26 okay, time to manually make a list from looking at the patch 14:04:27 tenofswords: I didn't presume the spriggan baker was cut, I just said that I hoped it wasn't being/already cut 14:04:34 personally the main reason I see to rename monsters is to give an indication of HD changing 14:04:47 03SamB 07* 0.13-a0-520-g4d9cfb1: Add a comment where we flub antennae detecting invisible monsters 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4d9cfb1e3c75 14:04:50 personally i think HD changing is bullshit 14:04:59 kilobyte: Grunt said he was ok with rogue gallery removal 14:05:00 I also think HD changing should be avoided when possible 14:05:14 I would not object to rogues_gallery dying horribly in a fire. Believe it or not, I think I have become less insane as a vault designer since the times when I thought rogues_gallery seemed like a good idea. 14:05:33 there are good HD changes. Ancient champions, for one. 14:05:33 And the bat vault feels like a shame to lose just because of its history at this point, I think. Since it's basically harmless. 14:05:37 Maybe that's just me? 14:05:51 Ancient champions get whole new spell sets though, so it's a lot more than an HD adjustment 14:06:00 ancient champions should just be real monsters 14:06:06 ancient champions are also not removed 14:06:15 withered plants should be real monsters 14:06:16 I know they're not 14:06:20 I did read the patch, actually 14:06:23 i actually like ancient champions. also the spooky statue. 14:06:29 sickly mermaid avoids having to add a weak mermaid just for the sewer 14:06:52 Yes, I don't want to see the spooky statue removed. Or, really, most of these statue things. 14:07:03 most of the statue things are buggy 14:07:07 and don't interrupt autoexplore 14:07:09 then they should be real monsters 14:07:10 isn't the spooky statue literally in a vault st_ designed 14:07:18 Yes 14:07:21 no it's evilmike_evil_forest 14:07:43 Oh, it just looked that way in the patch 14:07:52 I removed a lot of the statues vaults because they do not lead to good gameplay 14:07:53 elliptic: Don't interrupt autoexplore? Really? 14:08:01 They always have in my experience 14:08:10 Is that because you don't autoexlude them in your rc, maybe? 14:08:11 statues in general struggle to be any good 14:08:35 maybe statues should be in the default autoexcludes 14:08:36 maybe some of them do but there is at least one statue vault that doesn't 14:08:54 Well, I rather like statues as guards for things, in many cases 14:09:04 Perhaps some of that is also the flavor element, admittedly 14:09:26 they should be clearly guards then 14:09:35 and not just pieces of scenery that suddenly cast spells 14:10:01 Well, why is it stranger that a statue would be animate than a weapon would be? 14:10:29 DracoOmega: because there are lots of things named statues that aren't monsters at all 14:10:53 Do you have a problem with silver, orange crystal, and ice ones too? 14:11:15 no because *they are real monsters* 14:11:15 no, because they actually behave like monsters 14:11:24 why is this hard to understand 14:11:24 actually, wait, why do they need to autoexclude 14:11:26 I really don't undestand how these behave LESS like monsters 14:11:31 st_: er, what defines a "real monster"? 14:11:46 not redefined by a vault 14:11:58 that's not a definition 14:12:03 I mean, not a correct one 14:12:08 so if we just moved all the monsters in that patch into mondefs it'd be okay? 14:12:11 Also, that may be a source, but how are they BEHAVING differently after they are defined? 14:12:18 st_: that's only a _technical_ matter than has zero effect on the gameplay 14:12:21 I have a problem with orange crystal statues in general because they either do nothing or kill you based on a combination of luck and a single item 14:12:26 just being in mon-data.h isn't *that* big a deal 14:12:38 random generation outside of a vault 14:12:56 yeah 14:12:59 ocs suck 14:13:04 -!- Ursa2 has quit [] 14:13:09 * kilobyte sends Cerebov tenofswords' way. Not generated randomly. 14:13:13 those test spawners are a real pain when they generate 14:13:23 tenofswords: well, that would be good for some vault monsters, yes 14:13:32 but i don't see the benefit of that for e.g. sickly mermaid 14:13:50 they're almost impossible to kill 14:14:06 -!- Sealero has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:14:34 pearl dragon, orb guardian, ... 14:15:03 qwarves 14:15:07 people see bad vaults with redefined monsters -> people make more vaults with bad redefined monsters 14:15:07 Eronarn: an enemy that fits in a sewer and is not a rat 14:15:37 what a good way to describe kobold, adder, ooze, giant frog, crocodile, 14:15:38 st_: that's a reason to axe vaults based on their quality, not on some technical detail 14:15:50 slightly off topic, there's a player on cszo with scale mail that's sporting -11 ev 14:15:53 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:16:02 That is normal, and not actually any worse than it used to be 14:16:06 I agree this is misleading 14:16:08 yes, go EVP change 14:16:19 tenofswords: none of them have an interesting special ability, like mesmerize 14:16:26 Although it's probably more misleading for people who understood the old system 14:16:33 kilobyte: vampire mosquitos :V 14:16:34 DracoOmega: if you want an example of statues not stopping autoexplore, &M statue spells:summon_butterflies 14:17:15 I guess is_firewood needs love? 14:17:16 it will autoexclude with the default rc, which means that it will stop autoexplore via exclusion, but it still doesn't stop stuff like resting 14:17:19 an interesting special ability, like killing people when they get stuck unable to damage a monster staying away from them and have to wait for starvation 14:17:22 kilobyte: hence I didn't not remove absolutely all redefined monsters 14:17:27 did not* 14:17:46 statue (158) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Dam: 20 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, master archer | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 561 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 14:17:46 %??statue 14:17:48 I made a judgement based on quality 14:18:01 SwissStopwatch: yes, both the player and I were pretty confused 14:18:13 st_: I guess you should have included "bad" in the ticket name? 14:18:16 DracoOmega: also most vault-defined statues are grey, rather than having a distinctive color like OCS etc 14:18:38 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:39 elliptic: Hmmm.... maybe something I wouldn't notice in tiles, since many DO have their own tiles 14:18:40 quokka zombie (07z) | Spd: 4-28 | HD: 1 | HP: 6-51 | AC/EV: 0/6 | Dam: 4 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 12 | Sz: little | Int: plant. 14:18:40 %??zombie 14:19:02 elliptic: (Besides, vault monsters get unique labels anyway, so it's always obvious when something is) 14:19:10 DracoOmega: but mainly they just are defined via hacks that shouldn't be used IMO... just look at that statue base monster 14:19:37 to note: the iood statue in an open area was removed, the iood statue in the big vehumet vault wasn't 14:19:54 DracoOmega: they aren't always named anything useful, too... some of them are just "statue", and even "spooky statue" I wouldn't expect a L7 summoning spell from 14:20:13 I would just expect spooky statue to be a statue that looked spooky 14:20:18 maybe with a different tile in tiles 14:20:22 SamB: yeah 14:20:28 Well, it's kind of bad that some are unrenamed, I guess. But a lot of these were. 14:20:40 SamB: iood statues on the other hand have an interesting function 14:21:08 Well, the iood statues in either the Iskenderun wizlab or that late D conjurer vault are still there 14:21:24 Which seem to function well, in my experience and opinion 14:21:25 so why would you axe some but not others? 14:21:30 of the same monster? 14:21:31 portals are also a different matter all together 14:21:53 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:02 this is the stupidest argument I've ever heard 14:22:07 listen to yourselves 14:22:17 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:22:19 "vaults are bad because vaults!" 14:22:29 somebody said that? 14:23:08 that was basically tenofswords and st_ argument at one point, but they changed it 14:23:10 do I get to say that that is a stupid argument 14:23:43 it really sounds like some people are on a crusade 14:24:15 literally nobody said anything like that 14:24:27 anyway surely it is obvious that the same monster can work well in one situation/place but badly in another? 14:24:28 it would be nice if it was clearer what the crusade was against 14:24:31 that is what vaults are for, after all 14:24:38 elliott: thank you 14:25:19 kilobyte: were you around when I axed fedhas_growing_garden 14:25:30 that has runtime lua in it 14:26:06 ZChris13: ?? 14:26:15 maybe I misread something 14:26:17 I dunno 14:26:19 i am arguing in favour of removing monsters in situations where they do not lead to superior gameplay as st_ has done 14:26:20 a pretty annoying vault, yeah 14:26:28 of course, the fact of the runtime lua is not why I axed it; what it *did* was 14:26:45 SamB: right, it's technicality vs gameplay 14:27:30 lua makes it hard to design good effects during the game 14:27:43 hmm? 14:27:54 not a fault of lua as a language, it just would require duplication of the whole of Crawl 14:28:25 you mean, we might want bindings to just about anything? 14:28:48 it would require not just bindings, but also hooks everywhere 14:29:27 for no obvious gain, as it's enough to just write a line of C++ 14:29:52 SGrunt (L12 GhCK) ASSERT(you.wizard && !you.did_escape_death()) in 'xom.cc' at line 3838 failed. (Abyss:1) 14:29:58 ????????? 14:30:05 !lm . crash -log 14:30:10 4. SGrunt, XL5 TrSk, T:2507 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/SGrunt/crash-SGrunt-20130413-025856.txt 14:30:24 ...not that one. 14:30:25 !lm . crash -log 14:30:26 5. SGrunt, XL12 GhCK, T:16751 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/SGrunt/crash-SGrunt-20130428-192951.txt 14:31:22 stat zero 14:31:28 that's an old one 14:33:11 I guess Sequell hadn't grabbed the milestone file yet 14:35:13 Vault-redefined statues don't block autoexplore or resting. by elliptic 14:40:17 Scale mail showing as base evasion -11 by battaile 14:40:42 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:53:14 maybe call the "ev penalty" something else? 14:53:19 like, "penalty"? 14:54:07 i know it also wasnt exactly a direct ev penalty before, but that just means the name was already bad before the change 14:54:22 alefury: it isn't called "ev penalty" 14:54:48 alefury: it is called "Base evasion modifier", just as it has been for a few versions 14:55:17 possibly the name could be improved more though 14:55:21 true, still bad though 14:55:33 i got confused by everyone calling it evp 14:55:36 maybe just "encumbrance rating" or something 14:55:44 that sounds better 14:55:59 Yeah, that does sound more sensible 14:56:16 And would avoid direct comparison with your EV 14:57:38 there is the question of whether it should be displayed with the minus sign then I guess 14:58:20 being encumbered is bad. so i guess not. 14:58:33 I say it should be positive 14:58:44 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:53 otoh, is there another case in crawl where higher numbers are worse? 14:59:01 item weight 14:59:05 failure rate 14:59:21 HD 14:59:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:59:25 Damage (if you're the one recieving it) 14:59:30 those are not numbers 14:59:37 those are not displayed in-game, yes 14:59:37 Really, something having a higher encumbrance seems intuitively worse 14:59:53 Since why would it be better to be more encumbered? 14:59:55 yes I tend to agree about removing the minus sign 14:59:56 -!- ryansee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:00:03 its probably good to make it positive, yes 15:00:28 i just wanted to make sure it wouldnt be the only number where higher means worse 15:01:01 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:06:14 alefury: failure rate and the hunger bars are the only thing I can think of 15:19:18 -!- tenofswords has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:19:36 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:26 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 15:26:46 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:29:59 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 15:31:17 -!- codile has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:31:58 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:32:37 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:33:22 -!- Xjs|moonshine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33:44 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:34:41 -!- varmin has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:36:53 -!- herself has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:38:44 -!- syraine is now known as Sequell 15:39:21 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:20 -!- codile has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:40:51 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:41:37 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:17 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:42 -!- Sequell is now known as syraine 15:43:57 -!- syraine is now known as Sequell 15:44:53 -!- Sequell is now known as syraine 15:45:02 -!- Yen_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:45:22 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 15:45:22 -!- CKyle_ is now known as CKyle 15:45:50 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:46:55 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:12 03elliptic 07* 0.13-a0-521-g981c9ea: Rename "Base evasion modifier" to "Encumbrance rating" (and change sign). 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=981c9ea12fe2 15:56:53 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:57:59 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:43 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:12 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:05:47 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:26 Teleported into closed off room on shoals:5 by ZRN 16:07:09 -!- floatboth has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:50 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:12:50 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:13:06 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:22:15 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:20 -!- xryan has quit [Client Quit] 16:24:54 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:11 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:35 -!- bb has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:06 one long comment on https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6979 about trying to summarize the previous discussion and my standpoint on the issue as a whole because the last discussion was too scattered over varied points 16:32:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:32:11 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:48 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:52 -!- eeviac 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has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 18:32:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:36:53 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:44:12 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:44:34 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:50:32 ...patch of the moment: http://sprunge.us/FVbX 18:51:51 do you really perforate sieves? i thought those came pre-perforated 18:51:51 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:52:17 It's shorter than "perforate [it] until it resembles a sieve" :b 18:52:31 :P 18:55:45 -!- ryansee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:56:21 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:54 Hi mumra. 18:57:12 ...in case you missed my minor patch of the moment: http://sprunge.us/FVbX 18:58:13 (... e - a book of Minor Patches) 19:00:44 -!- spriseris has quit [Quit: spriseris] 19:03:45 does that have ray of bugginess in it 19:04:29 Debugging Ray, certainly :) 19:06:09 You slip into the darkness of the code. 19:06:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:08:51 You are fully attuned to the code. 19:09:17 yeah right 19:09:23 in *this* codebase? 19:09:42 Clearly it's a mythical tier 4 crawlspawn mutation :b 19:09:45 well that's why you need magic 19:13:53 edit rc not active for 0.12 beta, 0.11, 0.10 by gb 19:15:37 nice not saying which server(s)... 19:15:46 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 19:15:46 -!- ckyle_ is now known as ckyle 19:16:56 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 19:17:00 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:17:43 hi grunt 19:17:47 ohw 19:17:53 how's it going 19:18:21 Just relaxing while I figure out either a) what character(s) I want to play next or b) what kind of vaults I want to design :b 19:18:22 oops made the mistake of trying to type when drunk :S 19:18:32 !send mumra more drinks 19:18:32 Sending more drinks to mumra. 19:18:35 >_> 19:18:47 ??alcohol 19:18:48 alcohol[1/1]: < mikee_> for some reason when i'm drunk i hit the wrong keys instead of the keys i want 19:18:59 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-522-g8f4ad99: A few more alternative "strong hit" messages. 10(36 minutes ago, 1 file, 13+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8f4ad9905cad 19:22:04 -!- Cajunschi is now known as Eggie 19:25:37 MarvinPA: you also don't flatten pancakes, so 19:26:31 Grunt: i think it needs one for 'squash into jelly' for jellies 19:26:49 Heh. 19:27:58 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:17 -!- Raycaster has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:38:28 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:50 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:42:21 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:54 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:01 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:02:51 -!- OndePyrat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:00 -!- Sticky_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:07:49 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:03 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:21 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:22 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:08:28 ??djinn 20:08:28 I don't have a page labeled djinn in my learndb. 20:09:33 !seen kilobyte 20:09:33 I last saw kilobyte at Sun Apr 28 19:31:28 2013 UTC (5h 38m 5s ago) saying 'that's an old one' on ##crawl-dev. 20:16:37 !apt hexes 20:16:37 Hexes: Vp: 4!, Fe: 4!, DE: 3, Sp: 2, Dr[purple]: 1, HO: 0, HE: 0, Mf: 0, Ds: 0, Op: 0, SE: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Ko: 0, Mu: -1, Ha: -1, Dg: -1, Dr: -1, Ce: -1, DD: -2, Gh: -2, Te: -3, Og: -3, Mi: -4*, Tr: -4* 20:16:40 !apt charms 20:16:40 Charms: Sp: 4!, DE: 4!, HE: 2, Fe: 2, Vp: 1, Ha: 1, Mf: 1, Dr[purple]: 1, Op: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, HO: -1, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, Dr: -1, DD: -1, Ce: -1, Gh: -1, Mu: -2, Te: -2, SE: -2, Ko: -2, Og: -3, Mi: -4*, Tr: -4* 20:16:53 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:17:29 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:17:41 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 20:17:42 -!- CKyle_ is now known as CKyle 20:18:43 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:23:00 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 20:23:08 !apt short_blades 20:23:09 Could not understand "short_blades" 20:23:11 !apt short blades 20:23:12 Short: Ha: 3!, Ko: 3!, HE: 2, Mf: 2, Vp: 1, Mi: 1, Sp: 1, Te: 1, HO: 0, Op: 0, DE: 0, Dr: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, SE: -1, DD: -1, Ce: -1, Gh: -1, Mu: -2, Tr: -2, Og: -4*, Fe: N/A 20:23:21 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 20:23:47 !apt fighting 20:23:47 Fighting: Og: 3!, HO: 2, Mi: 2, Mf: 1, SE: 1, Dr: 1, Ko: 1, Gh: 1, Mu: 0, HE: 0, Ds: 0, Op: 0, Te: 0, Ce: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Fe: 0, Vp: -1, Ha: -1, Dg: -1, DD: -1, Sp: -2*, DE: -2*, Tr: -2* 20:30:33 -!- Eggie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:32:31 ??eye of draining 20:32:31 eye of draining[1/1]: Drains your mana with its gaze, which then heals it. Immune to magic. 20:36:17 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 20:44:47 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:30 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50:15 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:19 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:52:07 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:52:09 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:52:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:59 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 21:00:04 morning mumra 21:02:16 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:02:27 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:49 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:53 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:59 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:25 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:15:40 03bh 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-530-gc1ba5b6: Djinni Job Restrictions 10(47 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c1ba5b67487d 21:15:40 03bh 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-531-gc5fa959: Fire-type beams are harmless to djinni. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c5fa959c74a7 21:26:07 bh: BEAM_LAVA is not completely fire damage; djinni will still take some damage from it. 21:26:19 Grunt: ack. 21:26:46 fixed and pushed. 21:28:10 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 21:29:28 Grunt: I think it would be thematic for djinn to have better than 0 charms and hexes 21:30:57 03bh 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-532-gf9c8af1: BEAM_LAVA is not harmless 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f9c8af1f4ae5 21:31:38 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:31:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 21:31:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:32:26 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:01 ??crosstraining 21:33:02 cross training[1/1]: Some weapon skills train twice as fast if you have another skill at higher level. Pairs that allow cross training are Short <-> Long Blades, Maces <-> Axes, Axes <-> Polearms, Polearms <-> Staves, Maces <-> Staves also Slings<->Throwing. 21:33:02 our HUD code is really terrible 21:33:18 %s/HUD // :) 21:33:27 !abyss the_code 21:33:27 Grunt casts a spell. the_code is devoured by a tear in reality! 21:34:09 aren't there some classes that spend less total exp crosstraining than straight up training? I'm thinking Kobolds with Long blades 21:34:09 !abyss the HUD code 21:34:10 SamB casts a spell. the is devoured by a tear in reality! 21:34:23 %s/classes/species 21:34:34 !def !abyss 21:34:46 %def !abyss 21:35:06 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 21:36:05 !apt ko 21:36:05 Ko: Fighting: 1, Short: 3!, Long: -2, Axes: -1, Maces: 0, Polearms: -2, Staves: -1, Slings: 2, Bows: -1, Xbows: 2!, Throw: 3!, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 4, Stab: 2, Shields: -2, Traps: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: -1, Hexes: 0, Charms: -2, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: -1, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 3, Exp: 1!, HP: -2, MP: 0 21:38:50 If you can always raise a skill fastest by cross-training, should we just automatically cross-train for the player? 21:39:08 bh: huh? 21:39:36 bh: if you mean kobolds raising short blades and then long blades, there are reasons why they might not want to do this 21:39:36 elliptic: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fatest way for a Kobold to train Long Blades is to train Short Blades and then cross-train LB, right? 21:39:47 specifically, weapon gifts/acquirement 21:39:47 elliptic: apart from titles? 21:39:51 ah 21:41:22 it is a bit strange how it works though for sure 21:41:58 ideally skill training would commute 21:42:33 and raising short blades to 10 followed by raising long blades to 10 would take the same amount of xp as doing this in the other order 21:44:40 That's a good solution. 21:45:03 well, it isn't really a solution, just a dream :P 21:45:09 it requires changing the formula 21:46:04 current cross-training is at least moderately easy for players to understand 21:47:19 elliptic: we have the source code, and we can commit ;) Let's change it 21:48:28 (We can rebuild it. We have the source code.) 21:49:14 -!- Zelda has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:30 you need the destination code 21:51:46 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 21:53:07 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:43 elliptic: did you look at the djinn apts? 21:57:52 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:05:24 -!- Pedjt has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:11 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:53 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-522-g8f4ad99 22:08:00 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:24 bh: no, I haven't really looked at the branch much 22:10:35 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:50 -!- blackcustard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:10 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 22:11:16 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 22:11:16 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:14:17 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:18:25 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 22:18:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:52 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:30:07 -!- lainiw is now known as madreisz 22:30:27 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32:12 -!- notmadreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:33:42 what's the term for fire magic making it hard to learn ice magic? anti-crosstraining? 22:33:57 ??anti-training 22:33:57 elements[1/1]: Opposite elements (fire-ice, air-earth) antitrain, meaning that it takes twice as much xp to train one if the other is higher. 22:35:13 would it be weird to have a race that had higher anti-training? 22:35:18 -!- drage has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 22:36:20 weird/bad/undesirable/evil 22:40:52 bh: I think it would be weird, it's good for the skill system to work the same way for all races 22:44:28 <|amethyst> I think a race with no antitraining penalties might be interesting, but just tweaking the numbers seems meh 22:45:14 <|amethyst> e.g. sludge elf (not that they need buffed, but they're the "elementalist" race) 22:45:18 |amethyst: my thought was for a generalist that converts into a specialist 22:45:34 !apt sludge elf 22:45:35 SE: Fighting: 1, Short: -1, Long: -1, Axes: -2, Maces: -2, Polearms: -2, Staves: 0, Slings: 0, Bows: 0, Xbows: 0, Throw: 2, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 2, Stab: 0, Shields: -2, Traps: 0, UC: 1!, Splcast: 1, Conj: -2, Hexes: 0, Charms: -2, Summ: 1, Nec: 1, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 3!, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Air: 1, Earth: 1, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 0, HP: -1, MP: 1 22:50:12 <|amethyst> ("the elementalist race" might be a bit much, but they are the only race with positive apts in all four elements, and they have the highest mean elemental aptitude) 22:50:32 <|amethyst> deep elves are close 22:50:53 !apt deep elf 22:50:53 DE: Fighting: -2*, Short: 0, Long: -1, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: 0, Slings: -2, Bows: 1, Xbows: -1, Throw: 1, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 3, Stab: 1, Shields: -2, Traps: 0, UC: -2*, Splcast: 3!, Conj: 1, Hexes: 3, Charms: 4!, Summ: 1, Nec: 2!, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: 1, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 2, Exp: -1, HP: -2, MP: 3! 22:51:02 of course the conjurations apt hurts a little 22:52:14 yeah. ow. What's the deal with those aptitudes? 22:52:14 SE gets a lot of complaints for being boring/undesirable to play though 22:54:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 22:58:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 22:59:30 -!- sstrickl has quit [Changing host] 23:01:00 -!- sstrickl has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:39 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:04:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:38 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:05:46 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:07:34 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:44 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:33 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 23:16:08 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:17:52 -!- Eggie_ has quit [Quit: Still The Best 1973] 23:22:04 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:57 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:17 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:25:12 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Quit: CKyle_] 23:25:15 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:32:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:00 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:33 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:46:59 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:20 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 23:54:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:59:32 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth]