00:00:46 -!- Ursa2 has quit [] 00:00:50 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-b1-134-g976aae5 00:03:29 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:05:35 DracoOmega: it's using the same method as V to place vaults basically ... which has always done slightly strange things although a number of them have been fixed 00:05:51 Pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-b1-134-g976aae5 (34) 00:06:17 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-499-g2da1268 (34) 00:06:33 -!- ToastyP has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:04 I think I found the culprit 00:12:30 dungeon.cc, line 2372 00:12:42 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:13:08 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-499-g2da1268 (34) 00:13:19 Which effectively converts all runed doors to closed ones. I assume vaults placed later at not fixed up by the same routine, so those come out okay 00:14:39 Looks like a simple fix, even 00:15:08 Since all it is doing is trying to convert doors that open onto wall into floor 00:15:54 -!- minqmay is now known as minmay 00:15:58 -!- minmay is now known as minqmay 00:16:16 This might also be the source of overriding recolorings, maybe? 00:17:06 Yay, I see runed doors in pitsprint now 00:17:18 I guess they were defined even though they did nothing 00:23:56 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:29:21 -!- radiosilence has joined ##crawl-dev 00:38:35 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-500-g9de01b3: Don't replace runed doors with unruned ones in Sprint and portal vaults 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9de01b3a7d53 00:40:27 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 00:44:49 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:45:50 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-500-g9de01b3 00:47:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:26 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:48:45 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:54:19 -!- dupo has quit [] 00:58:28 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:47 -!- ckyle has quit [Client Quit] 01:03:02 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:03:46 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:11:16 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:13:52 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:01 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:32 -!- ckyle has quit [Client Quit] 01:20:35 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:31:00 DracoOmega: even after your fix, items still buggily place in the door if i use a runed door 01:31:05 it's very strange 01:31:19 Yes, that's something else, I think 01:31:30 Does the runed door itself at least show up, though? 01:31:36 yes, that works now 01:31:55 it's strange since the code is checking for floor, not checking for the specific feature of closed_door 01:32:17 anyway ... totally gotta sleep 01:32:28 layout_carcassonne is like 60% working now tho 01:33:26 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 01:34:04 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0a2/20130425004014]] 01:34:10 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-501-g2c4a691: Prevent jellies munching on Zig loot 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c4a6917dd61 01:40:54 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:06 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:41:59 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:42:01 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 01:48:23 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:55 -!- Havvy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:53:12 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:53:26 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:16 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:26 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:07:12 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:19 -!- Insomniak` has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:36 -!- st_ has quit [] 02:19:00 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 02:23:48 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:55 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:23:57 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 02:36:12 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:36:44 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:21 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:31 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:10 -!- johnny0_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:59:12 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:04:53 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:23:49 hey mumra I looked at the latest set of layout screenshots. Thats a nice looking concept with the big "fort" in the middle of the level 03:24:23 is it going to do anything special with monster or loot placement, so you get extra stuff in a central room or anything? 03:34:12 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:49:32 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:22 -!- radiosilence has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:08:00 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:09:21 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:39:43 -!- caracal has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:50:54 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:50:56 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:54 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:56:18 -!- nonethousand_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:38 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:59:36 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:04:49 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:53 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:07:07 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 05:07:55 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 05:09:30 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:58 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:24 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:22:36 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 05:25:06 -!- floatboth has quit [Client Quit] 05:25:48 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:59 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:26 -!- magicpoints has quit [] 05:41:05 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:42 -!- Krenium has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:44:41 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:20 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:50:02 hi evilmike 05:50:19 hello 05:50:37 i've got various ideas for stuff i *could* do with monster/loot placement but i haven't decided on anything yet# 05:50:45 for the moment it's just layout 05:51:33 but i'm also open to any ideas! 05:52:13 the first thing i was thinking about is just moving the stairs so they tend to generate in different rooms 05:52:24 i wouldn't go too far with placing monsters/items by the layout, but I think it can be interesting to do that to some degree 05:52:41 yeah 05:53:02 with stair placement its sometimes fine to have them clustered together too 05:53:14 also true 05:53:43 i was going to have a % chance to choose the placement, since it's very rare that they all generate inside rooms, it'd be nice if they did a bit more often 05:54:05 and even then they'd still have a good chance of, say, ending up in the rooms next to each other or something 05:54:20 with this fortress style layout, maybe you could make the exterior part more distinct. Although in terms of gameplay I think the way you set it up there looks good 05:54:51 but around the "entrance" there could be statues flanking it, or fountains, or some other decoration like that 05:55:44 i'm basically working on a new version that will be more suitable for stuff like that 05:56:48 cool 05:56:49 with the current one i was experimenting with this general idea and it came out really nice (even though it's technically not 100% working in terms of what i was trying to get it to do!) 05:57:11 so i decided to leave that as-is and start a new thing based on that but with additional ideas i picked up 05:57:44 so yeah, the new one will have proper entrances and also cloisters/crennelations around the fort walls, little buildings inside, all kinds of stuff 05:57:46 one thing you might want to avoid (or at least make very rare) are "moat" type structures, these can just be a nuisance sometimes if they're too big 05:57:58 cause in D it just means lots of eels, basically 05:58:46 hmm, that' a shame, the new one a moat :P will have to see how it plays out, can always be deactivated; but in some respects it doesn't quite work without it 05:59:00 s/new one/new one has/ 05:59:42 on the other hand -- very often the reason for not using water is "eels", maybe we need to adjust monster generation so that's less of a problem 06:00:01 i know DracoOmega has some ideas on improving water monsters 06:00:23 the other problem is if it's a long body of water with land on the other side, autoexplore starts to break down because it gets scared by all the stuff on the other side 06:00:33 if the moat is right up against the wall of the fort, this isn't a problem 06:00:53 in this case it's a 1-tile thick moat around the wall yeah 06:01:11 that's not a big deal, then 06:01:27 this is essential for the Gehenna variant of course since the moat will be lava ;) 06:01:54 by the way, have you ever thought of having more specific use of tiles in levels like this? For example, the bridge across the moat could look different, the floor tiles inside the fort could be more "paved" thant he regular dungeon tiles, etc 06:02:36 themed vaults do this a lot. previously most of our layouts were too abstract to bother with this sort of thing, but the stuff you're making these days has much more defined structures. So it's worth a thought, I think 06:02:44 yes, i've been thinking of that specially for this one (i've had some ideas for other layouts too, mostly stuff i haven't made yet) 06:02:50 sticking with the default dungeon tiles in most cases, but having "buildings" define their own stuff 06:03:02 (with ascii you should keep default colours though) 06:03:30 unfortunately then console players claim that tiles is getting information they're not ;) 06:03:45 nah, it's not information, it's just making stuff prettier 06:04:42 I suppose *technically* the tiles players would get some information out of that, but I have a hard time seeing how they could take advantage 06:05:04 redefining floor colours isn't a big deal in any case. It's walls that are the problem in console 06:05:31 there's a tiny problem that stopped me doing too much like this already in one layout -- can't change feature descriptions from layout maps (the reason why is quite complicated) 06:05:54 but that's just for e.g. trees 06:06:10 walls/floors don't particularly need different descriptions 06:08:35 but yeah, it's really nice when that twisted cavern layout comes up with a different tileset, it makes a nice change from the standard bricks of D; and i think it could work with more layouts (even some existing ones i've done maybe) 06:10:58 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:13:18 yeah. i'd shy away from full level replacements though. it can be justified if it's clearly different from the rest of the dungeon, like, I could see other "cave" layouts using the twisted cavern tile set 06:13:41 overall its probably more interesting to use a mix of standard D and some extra touches of detail 06:13:54 -!- Ragnor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:42 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:15:10 exactly, it has to be rare to stand out when it does get used 06:19:26 i do generally need to review all the depths and branches of layouts i'm using; like there are a lot of new cavey layouts and not all of them are really appropriate in D 06:20:27 D should generally have a bit more structure i think. but then there aren't many places properly appropriate for cavey layouts 06:20:40 maybe we need a new branch to take full advantage of them? ;) 06:21:35 Possibly Orc could handle more variety in the cave structures it uses 06:21:41 As opposed to always the same layout 06:22:01 It is thematically cavey, after all 06:22:01 I think they are a bit more appropriate in late D 06:22:26 I admit I am not that familiar with all the new generators, though 06:22:29 pandemonium might be a decent candidate for some of these 06:22:38 more in terms of gameplay then theme 06:22:55 Well, I don't think Pan layouts HAVE a theme 06:23:07 I mean the walls are 'weird stuff', which I don't think anyone has any idea what it is 06:23:08 in theory I think it would be some sort of demon city 06:23:09 this is something else to think about, how the layouts vary over the course of D; i was discussing this with hangedman and dpeg 06:23:30 -!- Raycaster has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:23:56 pandemonium is basically where i'm going to stick layouts that don't quite fit anywhere else, it definitely needs to be weird looking ... 06:24:06 I thought hangedman went insane and quit or something 06:24:21 Well, he was a ghost for a while, and now ocassionally pops in here briefly 06:24:31 he drank a potion of invisibility i think 06:24:36 ah 06:24:42 or perhaps he found the lantern of shadows ... 06:24:50 -!- zarath has quit [Client Quit] 06:25:32 DracoOmega: i have been thinking about replacing either orc or slime's generator since they both use exactly the same one 06:25:48 Replacing outright? 06:26:00 As opposed to just giving multiple options per-level? 06:26:01 slime does seem quite different because of the acid walls but the generator is literally identical, not even any parameter variation 06:26:34 Yes, Slime is tactically quite different even if it doesn't LOOK different, as such 06:26:53 And it should be at least somewhat claustrophobic, in my opinion, so that wall positioning has some relevance 06:26:56 DracoOmega: i'm not sure really; i mean it's quite good how orc is fairly consistent on each level 06:27:00 More open layouts would make the acid wall less relevant 06:27:26 slime is a bit different in practice 06:27:33 it does some special stuff with connectivity 06:28:00 but some of the new generators could definitely do cavey bubbles, with a bit of structure mixed in, which would feel quite good as "orcish mines" 06:28:17 mumra: As for consistency, perhaps it's just that we're USED to that there, and it would be fine if it was more varied? It's not like cave systems lack in internal variation 06:28:22 just be careful if you make changes to slime. When acid walls originally went in, the branch was rather awful 06:28:22 evilmike: it doesn't actually do a lot special with connectivity 06:28:33 it had a lot of narrow parts and you needed to dig a lot 06:28:44 yeah, this is why i haven't touched it 06:28:46 Yes, of the two, I think Orc is the better candidate for experimentation 06:28:54 Slime works pretty well and is more 'brittle' in terms of changes 06:28:54 agreed 06:29:43 -!- ryansee has quit [Client Quit] 06:30:19 even if i did change slime it's quite easy to make sure there are always paths to the stairs, but yeah the layout is fine there 06:34:51 there's actually a layout i was planning with cavelike chambers linked up by corridors, kind of similar to roguey but with more random placement and shapes of the rooms 06:35:01 that could be good orc material 06:37:39 something else i was thinking or rethinking rather: lair is basically supposed to be "standard D levels with ruination" 06:38:01 but that basically means 8 more levels of D layouts, and a lot of them simply turn into big open layouts 06:38:23 e.g. layout_city or layout_chaotic_city after they've been ruined have hardly anything left of the rooms 06:38:41 Well, to be honest, even if you can recognize the source layout that has been Lair-ified, I find they still feel and play differently 06:39:03 So, to me anyway, it doesn't really feel like just repeating more D. At least not to a large degree. 06:39:19 i'd avoid corridors in orc, really 06:39:19 oh definitely, it's hardly noticable they're the same 06:39:42 evilmike: I had assumed these were broad cave-like corridors? 06:39:50 I suppose I don't know though 06:39:53 evilmike: ok, fair point 06:39:56 i was thinking of 1-tile ones 06:40:08 i mean the whole point of orc is being swarmed by weak stuff 06:40:09 Yes, I would avoid that in Orc, too 06:40:14 DracoOmega: actually the specfic one i was talking about would be 1-tile corridors, although they can easily be widened 06:40:31 But bigger cave chambers linked by wide meandering tunnels seems potentially interesting 06:41:09 regarding lair, I think the ruination thing works pretty good 06:42:19 i was just thinking about having a bit more of the organic-looking cavelike levels in lair, still with some ruinated D stuff mixed in on some floors; then less of the cavelike ones in D at least until deeper 06:42:25 its better for some than others, but it does give the branch a more unique feel, especially combined with the plants 06:42:58 mumra: That seems reasonable to experiment with, anyway 06:43:46 -!- Scottbert has joined ##crawl-dev 06:43:48 some of the cave layouts are quite a good fit for spider actually ; i could vary things a bit more there since it's just that delve layout still 06:44:37 one thing that can be good is when levels get a bit different the deeper you go. for example, swamp gets more shallow water, spider gets webbier, slime walls hurt more... 06:44:46 D doesn't need this so much, it's just a thing for shorter branches 06:45:01 A cautionary note: while variety is good, a downside of having too many options in a branch is that it can damage thematic cohesion a little 06:45:11 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:13 Hello 06:45:14 There's less of a sense of 'this is what this branch looks/feels' like 06:45:22 evilmike: this is "convergence" as dpeg calls it 06:45:28 oh hello dpeg 06:45:40 seems like a good opportunity to join the channel -- what's today's matter? :) 06:45:50 i dont understand how that's "convergence" tbh 06:45:56 -!- Scott_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:46:00 Nor I, in terms of word choice 06:46:02 evilmike: what branch, what idea? 06:46:10 you might want to read the last hour or so in the chat log, it's a conversation about level layouts 06:46:17 its not a huge backlog and its on topic 06:46:22 one thing that can be good is when levels get a bit different the deeper you go. for example, swamp gets more shallow water, spider gets webbier, slime walls hurt more... 06:46:31 that quote in particular though 06:46:48 Shoals islands get smaller 06:47:12 ^ that was my first example of "convergence" 06:47:41 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:51 evilmike: what we were talking about for D is layouts *generally* (but with a lot of variance) getting both smaller and more open towards D:27 06:48:13 I don't think we need that any more, really 06:48:32 dpeg: Since the topic was broached, I understand what you MEAN by the word, but what exactly is converging here? 06:48:39 evilmike: I can see why someone wouldn't like that, but why "any more"? 06:48:41 the idea was first floated around quite a while ago, this was when late D didn't have much interesting stuff. Now it has a lot of large vaults, I'm worried that if we make levels small, the vaults will overwhelm the levels 06:48:53 DracoOmega: in Shoals? 06:49:02 Well, in any of these examples, as you use the term 06:49:24 overall I just feel that late D is in pretty good shape, and I think making levels smaller isn't going to fix anything (but might introduce problems) 06:49:33 evilmike: i wouldn't want them too small, like 66% of total level size is already getting fairly cramped, especially if trying to do anything interesting with a layout 06:49:36 DracoOmega: e.g. Slime: ordinary walls don't do damage; Slime:$ walls do lots of damage; the Slime levels in between interpolate 06:50:19 But what is converging? Wouldn't that imply two seperate things coming together? 06:50:20 Regarding D, I think that mumra's idea about changing levels according to closed --> open, orderly --> chaotic and regarding features (more fog generators, wall types etc. 06:50:22 pandemonium is one place that might benefet from smaller levels. Haven't thought about it much 06:50:28 (Forgive me if I am missing the point entirely here :P) 06:50:32 ) is much better than just bigger --> smaller 06:51:17 DracoOmega: the label is probably a hopeless misnomer -- it's the benefit of coming up with something, you can call it something horrible, and it'll stick :) 06:51:44 Heh 06:52:04 DracoOmega: converging, for me, just means something approaching something else. Think of a sequence in a topological (or metric) space. 06:53:41 Incidentally, I wonder if 'progression' is a better term here, since the idea is that a branch has some unique feature, and this feature becomes increasingly stronger as you go further on 06:54:07 DracoOmega: yes, absolutely. It also sounds less smartassy :) 06:54:07 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:13 Haha 06:54:34 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:08 I'll try to use "branch progression" from now on. 06:55:21 A little off-topic but anyway: I would like to tweak overflow altar vaults a bit, for example make those with choices come up more often. Any resistance? 06:56:05 DracoOmega: what i like about "convergence" is that whether or not it's the appropriate word, as long as people know what it means in this context it can't be mistaken for anything else 06:56:21 whereas if someone talks about progression what are they talking about; character progression, difficult, skills? 06:56:29 ^difficulty 06:56:36 Well, that is a point 06:56:55 and as a word it makes sense in my head anyway :) 06:56:58 * dpeg is confused about terminology now. dpeg goes back into a math book. 06:57:32 convergence is like, two or more things coming together at a point 06:58:01 Hark, I'll just change some weights, and see if anyone complains. 06:58:14 Another one: I am not too happy about D:1 altars. Anyone cares if they go? 06:58:29 +1 06:58:43 Yes, removing D:1 altars sounds fine to me 06:58:49 i had a nemelex altar on D:1 with a deck of changes which gave me 3 experience cards 06:59:00 or was it 4? extreme example anyway but that was kind of silly 06:59:01 Well, that's so fantastically rare that I don't think it's a concern 06:59:13 I am concerned about scumming... not sure if it is done, but D:1 altars might be enticing. 06:59:16 You could also find a wand of heal wounds and PDA in the entrance vault 06:59:30 DracoOmega: sure 06:59:42 dpeg: That was more to mumra's example than the idea of removing D:1 altars 06:59:51 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 06:59:58 I don't think anyone really scums for D:1 altars, but I also see no problem with removing them 07:00:26 I'd keep them (i.e. the D:1 in the vault range) if they're not immediately accessible 07:00:52 If you mean 'only allow D:1 altars that have obstacles or threats', I think it's probably better to be consistent 07:00:59 And just disallow them period, if we're going to 07:02:07 mumra: Incidentally, if I ran into that, I don't think I would ever have drawn from the deck :P 07:03:48 DracoOmega: i was an Artificer anyway so i was like, "D:1 Nemelex? Let me sign right here and blind draw this whole pack!" 07:04:08 it was like 4 out of 6 experience cards or something ridiculous 07:04:11 Yes, but blind drawing from changes is something that would scare me too much to do, even if D:1 is probably the safest place to do it 07:04:18 Since shuffle 07:04:29 well i'd only just started the game, i didn't have much to lose 07:04:33 Yeah 07:04:45 I'm not saying it was a bad move. I was just saying that *I* would never have done that :P 07:04:53 And thus have never even discovered the boon 07:05:02 hehe 07:05:13 DracoOmega is a security person :) 07:05:16 I draw out change decks with ?id or not at all, basically (unless I'm with Nemelex in the first place) 07:05:56 I wouldn't say I'm a highly cautious player, but shuffle can really ruin your way 07:05:59 day* 07:06:22 there's no fun in playing it safe ;) 07:06:34 I had a Nemelex character who cancelled an all-rune run after 6 or 7 runes due to accidentally drawing one somehow and no longer having remotely enough str for my armour 07:06:49 I debated whether it was worth bothering to continue that way or not 07:07:05 (to be honest i rarely play artificers or nemelexites so i don't really know what's in all packs, i had no idea what kind of danger i was putting myself in) 07:07:10 Haha 07:07:18 Fair enough 07:09:34 dpeg: something i was thinking with D is actually have the middle levels most orderly ... so it starts off chaotic, then in the middle there's some order and structure and city-like levels, like more things have actually settled there; then have the final levels get more crazy and chaotic again 07:10:04 I'm not sure I'm hot on the idea of that kind of progression, to be honest. Since it's not like the monster set or anything else in D supports that kind of idea. 07:10:10 mumra: you can try, but I am not sure players will witness the progression :) 07:10:23 true, true 07:10:26 by the way, is there some behaviour in LAir? 07:10:45 "behaviour"? 07:10:53 D is basically a themeless grab-bag of stuff 07:11:02 (Note that I don't mean that to sound like a bad thing here) 07:11:53 * dpeg is still fond of the shmup levels where you have to shoot your way (Gradius etc. all have this). In Crawl, the natural place would be Lair (or Forest) where some kind of plant (e.g. fungus) grows so fast that it actually matters. 07:12:07 mumra: more ruination/plants the deeper you go? 07:12:15 ah right 07:12:17 probably not 07:12:43 Probably if you had more ruination, before too long everything would be completely unrecognizable 07:12:53 pity 07:13:24 Forest would seem to have potential to make more interesting plant mechanics, as you mention, if anyone can figure out what to do with it 07:13:45 (Like, I'm not sure where it was even supposed to go originally?) 07:13:46 To be precise: I'd want a plant that dies very quickly (our toadstools would do), so that they don't hinder movement. But they would have an affect on combat, especially if the local population can walk freely through the plants. 07:13:50 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:14:02 forced to eat by family, later 07:14:08 -!- dpeg is now known as foodpeg 07:14:57 !tell dpeg actually apparently it does have more ruination/plants as you go deeper 07:14:57 mumra: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 07:15:15 Haha. I am not sure I noticed. 07:15:36 (Then again, I never noticed the slime walls hurting more as you descend, either) 07:15:43 -!- Xelf is now known as Q-Flex 07:19:16 maybe it could be pronounced a little more. but since a lot of the layouts aren't hugely distinct to begin with it's not noticable anyway 07:19:55 (maybe that's a possibility: only use more distinct D layouts in there rather than a bit of everything. like Roguey is always really recognisable when you get the Lair version) 07:24:37 -!- foodpeg is now known as dpeg 07:24:53 DracoOmega: with Slime walls it's not so bad, since Slime:1 teaches you to stay away from walls well enough 07:24:53 dpeg: You have 8 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:28:40 Well, I have actually DIED to Slime walls, believe it or not >.> 07:28:57 Back in the mists of time (ie: 0.7) 07:29:02 DracoOmega: if you get a shuffle away from str, it's likely you have great or decent int, and late in the game you can wear foo dragon armour and be a powerful armoured spellcaster 07:29:02 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:29:39 DracoOmega: btw i still really want to see Forest Branch happen, maybe .13 is a good target ;) 07:30:10 mumra: do you think my vegetation idea could make sense for such a branch, or should I hold out for a portal vault? 07:30:12 kilobyte: Well, it takes more than a little effort to revamp your build when you're already IN Pan. I am not saying I couldn't have gotten the other runes, but it felt too annoying to bother 07:30:25 like, my only MDFi win had a shuffle into dex, yet I still had enough int to get level 9 spells in EVP 3 armour very soon 07:30:42 even with MD aptitudes 07:31:01 and I'm a crap player 07:33:20 !log . win char=mdfi 07:33:21 1. KiloByte, XL27 MDFi, T:187175: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/KiloByte/morgue-KiloByte-20110129-220313.txt 07:33:54 regarding D and theme, I'll just throw in my opinion that you should try to avoid too much of that... including trying to convey too much of a feeling of order/chaos. D benefits a lot from being the "misc branch", in a way it's like Crawl's "overworld" 07:34:48 I've always felt like themes belong in branches, and the main dungeon should just be misc stuff with themes being on a per-level basis 07:35:01 it's ok to have SOME progression (and we already do) but it ought to eb less pronounced 07:35:02 I agree 07:35:13 evilmike: good point. I still think that something can be done. Brogue uses features (wall type, lava vs water) to great effect 07:35:41 You "feel" whether you're on D:3 vs D:16 there. 07:36:51 there is already a certain progression in D in terms of which layouts are enabled at which depths but it's a very subtle effect and i like that ... i'm just trying to find a way to formalise it a bit i think 07:36:52 there are a couple features that pop up later on, but I think the game mainly achieves this because it has a light radius that decreases as you go deeper 07:37:12 it also gets a bit more obnoxious with colour effects when you get deep, but I play with those off after I lost a character to them 07:37:28 mumra: as for the twisted cavern, I felt that regular crystal tiles (especially the old ones) look way too orderly: they are obviously purposely made, which looks awful in a "natural" cave 07:37:32 evilmike: yes. Thank me for being able to turn them off :) 07:38:05 now I just wish mutated monsters were more obvious, I find the current version unplayable because of all the randomly exploding stuff :/ 07:38:33 evilmike: will inevitably come. 1.7.2 featured mutated monsters (a great concept); a later version will do the interface. 07:38:34 mumra: so I took some freely-licensed image of unworked emerald and picked a bunch of 32x32 areas (of a high resolution image), with a slight bevel to tell tile boundary apart it looks quite good 07:38:44 mumra: although totally inconsistent with regular crystal :( 07:38:44 kilobyte: yes, i think this is true for some of the new layouts i've added as well, they overall look really cragged and cavey but when you look at the walls they're made of bricks, it's a bit odd... 07:38:54 kilobyte: wow, you're taking pains for tilists :) 07:39:28 dpeg: we had no ontoclasm those days, someone had to pay lip service :p 07:39:34 hehe 07:39:44 !beer ontoclasm 07:40:00 mumra: good point about bricks in cavey layouts 07:41:05 yes, i'm wondering whether those layouts either just shouldn't be in D anything like so often and/or have an alt tileset for layouts like that 07:41:30 loooking at layout_twisted_cavern, it has lrocktile('wall_pebble_lightgray'); lfloortile('floor_pebble_brown') 07:41:47 For what it's worth, the tiles for cavey D layouts never once struck me as odd 07:42:01 this sounds like a good idea, although it would need to have an entry for every branch the layout is allowed in 07:42:04 Actually, what DID strike me off is twisted_cavern's tiles >.> 07:42:44 dpeg: the fungus idea is cool by the way, i'd love to have forest (or a theoretical new plant-based branch) with some properly interesting plant threats ... but it's so hard to come up with stuff that feels plant-like and isn't boring 07:43:07 i think its fine to have cavern style layouts in d 07:43:12 mumra: yes. My point is that fungus-style vegetation would have an impact 07:43:15 maybe they should get their own tile set though 07:43:21 complete with progression like the regular d tiles have 07:43:27 fucking keys on fucking German keyboards (' is next to Enter ##23!"§) 07:43:53 american style ones too 07:43:59 kilobyte: hmm true, although for most other branches those layouts might appear in the tileset looks more natural anyway 07:44:07 mumra: yes. My point is that fungus-style vegetation would have a tactical effect without being a monster, just by impinging on movement 07:44:25 i often just dont type the ' in words because its annoying 07:44:38 its a mostly pointless convention anyway 07:44:41 evilmike: but without Shift, I believe. For ' I have to press two keys next to Enter, and hit the Enter key every so often. 07:44:43 DracoOmega: it would help if the tiles were actually drawn, I guess taking pieces of a photograph stands out too much 07:44:56 DracoOmega: but I for one can't draw my way out of a wet paper bag 07:45:06 kilobyte: I don't just mean the crystal tiles, though those always looked more 'worked' than 'natural' to me 07:45:07 evilmike: it is certainly a stroke-type convention, not a point :) 07:45:17 It's moreso that it's odd for the ONE level to get a new tileset when none of the others do 07:45:19 dpeg: did you see this tavern thread, it had some terrible ideas but maybe a couple of things that could be used : https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7625&p=102931 07:45:32 So it sticks out a lot (and in a bit of a bad way, as far as I am personally concerned) 07:45:40 i general the idea of more terrain impinging fetures 07:47:27 anyway, rotating between more different tilesets in D sounds good to me ... the walls get a bit bland after a while. i thought it was really cool the first time i saw the late-D variation with spooky purple flames 07:47:36 players are trying to come up with interesting immobile monsters, but it's really hard to do... not least because Crawl already has some, making differentiation all the harder 07:50:32 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:52:36 mumra: otherwise, some decent ideas in there. If I'd be younger, I'd carefully shove information to the wiki. 07:53:18 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-502-g7067b9f: Crash nicely instead of taking 100% CPU forever when handle_monsters() loops. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7067b9f0af50 07:53:20 TSO doesn't actually disapprove of bottled efreet by rchandra 07:54:48 dpeg: i suggested the poster add stuff to wiki but then he fell silent ... anyway, it 07:55:08 it's probably easiest to just add a link rather than copy everything ;) 07:55:36 !tell Grunt the infinite loop reproduces for me on current trunk too; -seed doesn't seem to be portable across architectures, for example -seed 4 hangs on amd64, but not on armhf 07:55:37 kilobyte: OK, I'll let grunt know. 07:56:14 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:57:34 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:51 -!- laan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:01:38 dpeg: along the movement hindering theme, i've had this idea for a while about a kind of vine/tentacle that slowly spreads around the level and can either hold or constrict or something like that 08:10:57 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:15:19 -!- Flun has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:22 mumra: i came up with something like that long ago in a discussion about more interesting plant monsters... not moving is a problem, but vines/runners make perfect sense 08:17:23 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:18:03 vines growing against a wall would be cool, esp. if they had hydra-like severing 08:18:44 Eronarn: yeah, they can spread along the ground at a fair rate ... i was also thinking of something like that they could sprout "buds" adjacent to you which would be melee threats 08:20:17 i think plants can be distinct from animals/humanoids by moving in non-standard ways, rather than not moving at all; and growth is an obvious way to play on this (as ballistos do) 08:21:36 and also, affecting the player's movement so that fauna can be more threatening 08:21:36 i'd also just like to see more plant monsters period, we're very limited right now 08:22:02 i agree, especially for a forest branch 08:22:08 mumra: 'octopode tree', purple P, 'plant' stats + constriction 08:22:09 it's also true for water monsters of course 08:22:19 and "water-based plant monster" doesn't even exist! ;) 08:22:44 sargassum! 08:23:51 ??spellcasting 08:23:51 spellcasting[1/1]: Gives you an extra 2 spell slots per level in spellcasting. Raising your spellcasting also gives you more MP, lowers {spell hunger}, and slightly boosts {spell success} and {spell power} for all spells. 08:24:05 coral could be cool too 08:24:05 ??spell success 08:24:06 success rate[1/5]: Spell success rates are colored according to miscast severity. Red means pretty bad things will probably happen to you! 08:24:15 though that stretches the definition of 'plant' even more 08:24:24 oops, sorry wrong window 08:24:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_coral are terrifying 08:26:01 i wish we could make shoals have an underwater level 08:27:12 I had never heard of fire coral, that's very good (new lava monster?) 08:27:18 haha 08:27:20 yessss 08:27:42 oh hey, what about: brain coral, magenta P, brain feed (after it gets fixed) 08:27:59 giant orange brain coral... 08:28:12 good vault monster 08:29:11 a lungfish or mudskipper would be cool 08:30:07 (i realize those are not plants) 08:31:17 is DracoOmega catching this? (he had plans for some water monsters) 08:31:53 Over 60 species of brittle stars are known to be bioluminescent.[6] Most of these produce light in the green wavelengths, although a few blue-emitting species have also been discovered. 08:31:57 glowing starfish!!! 08:32:03 silver starfish 08:32:44 holy water monster? :P 08:33:27 or mutagenic if its glowing ... anyway glowing starfish = good imo 08:33:38 constrict + mutagenic aura :D 08:34:14 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:35 our water monsters suck 08:35:41 teehee, 'variable starfish' 08:35:50 hard to come up with a decent attack for trilobites, though :p 08:36:41 easy : they bite you three times 08:36:49 kilobyte: sea yaks! 08:36:59 just imagine a herd of them rushing at you 08:37:29 also, there's some water monsters here: 08:37:32 ??todo monsters 08:37:33 todo monsters[1/14]: sloths, cassowaries, moas, hoatzin, octopus, locusts, paper wasps, bullet ants, mantis shrimp 08:37:35 ??todo monsters[2] 08:37:36 todo monsters[2/14]: anglerfish chameleons pistol shrimp anomalacaris trilobytes skunk coconut crab drop bears guard llamas 08:37:38 ??todo monsters[3] 08:37:39 todo monsters[3/14]: decorator crabs, velvet worms, osedax worms (bone-worms), tardigrades, shrikes, bladderworts, sundews, rocket hawks, aerial jellyfish 08:39:05 wow 08:39:42 -!- Medar has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:40:17 -!- Medar has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:24 let's s/burning bush/piranha plant/ 08:40:26 probably what we should do is come up with a list of what gimmicks can make 'immobile' monsters interesting, figure out which ones we are using and which ones we will never use, and then go from there to populate the remaining bins 08:40:40 kilobyte: don't you mean fire flower? 08:41:06 having burning bushes spew a flame cloud around it would make sense, spitting fire projectiles accurately doesn't 08:41:32 Eronarn: isn't that the name of the powerup only? 08:41:53 i think really we need more amphibious monsters that just only generate in water. there are very few things a properly immobile monster can do, and water monsters count as this if for most purposes if they can't actually leave the water... 08:44:55 kilobyte: hm, you're right - prettier name though 08:45:57 actually, looks like fire-spitting ones are classified as a subspecies: http://www.mariowiki.com/Piranha_Plant 08:45:59 mumra: well, it's okay if they can't leave if they do other stuff: bar you from getting to loot/stairs, or make the level harder to clear 08:46:04 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:46:49 and we want variety in those monsters 08:47:15 i think it's also marginally okay to have 'surprise' monsters, where they only bother you once and then you can get away if needed 08:47:20 though we don't want too many of those 08:47:41 they'd suffer from the same problem as traps, though 08:48:15 kilobyte: not if you build them as intelligent - with traps, there's no agency, so it doesn't make sense for them to only pop up if there's something else around 08:48:18 elliott: where the hell is your trap removal patch?!? 08:48:20 elliott: :) 08:48:49 elliott: I wouldn't cry if you "accidentally" remove too much, too :) 08:48:51 but take the chameleon or spriggan assassin ideas 08:48:59 where they don't immediately go after you, but wait until you're vulnerable 08:49:52 could lead to bizarre play where you make yourself vulnerable in a controlled matter before going to somewhere dangerous 08:51:09 kilobyte: as long as the monster is actually a threat when it shows up, that's not so bad 08:51:15 there needs to be some risk, at least of forcing item consumption 08:52:58 (definitely that monster shouldn't follow you across stairs while it's 'hidden', though) 08:54:01 kilobyte: have been busy with non-crawl-related things recently, I agree the delay is terrible and unacceptable though :P 08:54:05 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Changing host] 08:55:41 how did you handle the absolute number of traps placed? 08:56:07 I mean, a naive version would change the number of teleport/alarm traps by a lot 08:56:29 (not sure how much we should care, though, a fixed reduction could work) 08:58:16 -!- Flun has left ##crawl-dev 08:59:17 I was just going to play around with the number of traps placed until a few test runs give reasonable numbers 08:59:34 I doubt all that much thought has been given to balance of how many traps are placed, so it probably doesn't matter all that much 08:59:55 I didn't get around to reducing the number, though, that was the last thing I was going to do (because tweaking numbers is boring :P) 09:00:34 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:43 !learn add todo_monsters albatross, harp seal, walrus, anemone, klownfish, electric rays (that fire electric rays), sunfish, fire coral, brain coral, mutant starfish, box jelly, sponge 09:01:44 todo monsters[15/15]: albatross, harp seal, walrus, anemone, klownfish, electric rays (that fire electric rays), sunfish, fire coral, brain coral, mutant starfish, box jelly, sponge 09:02:04 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:03 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:17 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:17 -!- floatboth has quit [Client Quit] 09:07:52 !learn add todo_monsters slime mold, clanking automaton, guardian spirit, swordfish, blobfish, jackalope, ostrich, cone snail, vampire squid, seahorse, seadragon, sea spider, sea nettle, icefish, glassfish, hagfish 09:07:52 todo monsters[16/16]: slime mold, clanking automaton, guardian spirit, swordfish, blobfish, jackalope, ostrich, cone snail, vampire squid, seahorse, seadragon, sea spider, sea nettle, icefish, glassfish, hagfish 09:12:35 {todo monsters} reminds me of {wcrawl} 09:13:43 <3 segfault mimics 09:14:58 !learn add todo_monsters armadillo, axolotl, olm, alpacas + guard llamas, narwhal + four-legged land narwhal, platypus, stick bug, stink bug, coelacanths, pygmy elephant, hippo, rhino, pelican, nautilus, horseshoe crab, elephant shark, hammerhead shark 09:14:59 todo monsters[17/17]: armadillo, axolotl, olm, alpacas + guard llamas, narwhal + four-legged land narwhal, platypus, stick bug, stink bug, coelacanths, pygmy elephant, hippo, rhino, pelican, nautilus, horseshoe crab, elephant shark, hammerhead shark 09:15:27 ??wcrawl 09:15:28 wcrawl[1/11]: Planned features: awesome slots for all races; nomes; mega-zig; contra-rot; nega-spells; luck feature; permabuffs; elms; bookstorm; QUAD-MANA; all classes start in the abyss; all classes start with controlled blink castable; omni-trample; playable someonePA; book elementals; no solid floor tiles, all liquids 24/7; uberwights; anti-starvation 09:15:46 sounds reasonable to me 09:16:08 omni trample would be a fun summon, actually 09:19:01 t1: it appears (smite target). t2: for each successful trample into a surrounding square, it fissions off a copy. t3+: repeat until some condition is met. t?: they all die instantly, possibly with an AOE or leaving something behind 09:19:25 even if it failed to trample something, it could surround it 09:21:22 jelly blob? 09:21:35 possibly a massive non-engulfing gelatinous cube 09:22:03 kilobyte: the best candidates, imo, are jelly, plant, or ice 09:22:38 crystal could work too... 09:22:44 avalanche? 09:23:23 kilobyte: i'd envision an avalanche as being instant-with-duration-effects, like a storm 09:23:33 this is more like a glacier on fast forward 09:24:02 ooh, what about making it an offensive high level tmut spell? 09:24:10 flesh everywhere 09:24:34 meatstorm 09:24:56 mumra: stone to flesh... doors => orifices 09:25:44 -!- Raycaster has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:26:30 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:26:56 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:09 Eronarn: use the proper word: "meat" :p 09:27:20 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:32 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:32:29 -!- Raycaster has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:33:34 Meat Wave / 'Formless Form', Tmut/??? 9. omnitrample starting from you (with tornado rules about tele/etc.). trample attack scales with your unarmed and the number of adjacent flesh (not one attack per, harder to balance). each 'playername's bloated form' monster spawned contributes to a huge shared HP pool. they do maxHP damage to fleshy enemies, healing themselves/the player. 09:33:36 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:23 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:35:25 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 09:35:42 so, say, 1 adjacent flesh = -dam relative to normal unarmed; surrounded by 8 adjacent flesh = more unarmed damage boost than dragon form 09:35:48 <|amethyst> Can we have spell that is a combination of disintegration, inner flame, and animate skeleton? 09:35:53 <|amethyst> we can call it "Fillet Minion" 09:36:13 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:36:47 Eronarn: ie, it turns you into a lipid golem? 09:36:57 |amethyst: <3 09:38:12 it should produce burning corpses, not skeletons 09:38:17 flaming corpses, rather 09:38:46 kilobyte: something more like http://magiccards.info/scans/en/cedi/260.jpg 09:38:58 <|amethyst> evilmike: proper steak is prepared rare! (says the vegetarian) 09:39:30 after all, you have to be able to see - that means your entire body has to grow eyes 09:39:43 and why not throw in some extra arms and legs and stomachs while you're at it? 09:40:36 new spell school : cooking 09:41:17 mumra: there have been many, many cooking proposals 09:41:51 <|amethyst> mumra: phagomancy 09:42:09 okay i should go work on my own roguelike while i have a day off 09:44:29 Eronarn: i know, that was the joke; but nobody ever proposed cooking be the school of meat magic before, maybe this can work 09:44:47 |amethyst: phagomancy <3 09:45:07 tmut split: anabolism, catabolism 09:45:57 'Anabolism (from Greek ana, "upward", and ballein, "to throw") is the set of metabolic pathways that construct molecules from smaller units' 09:46:03 because that root makes sense at ALL 09:47:02 -!- ZRN_ has quit [Client Quit] 09:47:39 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:59 <|amethyst> Eronarn: it's a back-formation from "metabolism" 09:49:05 <|amethyst> Eronarn: where "throw over" meant "change" 09:49:20 <|amethyst> which doesn't necessarily make any more sense, I'll grant 09:50:00 <|amethyst> but that one's the fault of real Greek speakers, not scientists 09:52:34 -!- flowsnake has left ##crawl-dev 09:57:45 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:46 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:09:40 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 10:11:29 -!- ZRN_ has quit [] 10:13:13 -!- jcd748 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:15:58 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 10:17:54 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:13 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:19 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:20:26 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 10:20:35 -!- ckyle has quit [Client Quit] 10:28:51 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:31 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 10:46:32 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:48:20 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:50:34 -!- Kellhus_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:57:18 -!- santiago__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:58:02 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:12 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:44 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 11:06:57 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:07:56 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:07 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:53 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:14:11 -!- geminimax has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:21:16 -!- GenghisTron has quit [Client Quit] 11:23:06 -!- CampinSam has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:08 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 11:34:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:27 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:27 -!- Boyo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:48:59 -!- keksz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:58 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 11:49:58 -!- CKyle_ is now known as CKyle 11:53:50 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:04:39 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz. 123456890] 12:06:57 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-502-g7067b9f (34) 12:10:54 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:48 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:00 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:14:00 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:15:51 -!- Sepik121 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:16:56 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:18:30 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 12:22:58 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 12:24:11 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26:58 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-503-g15920da: Release sealed doors when vault warden is pacified 10(4 days ago, 2 files, 4+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=15920dad5203 12:26:58 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-504-g8ffd702: Hide some removed items from the item knowledge screen 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ffd70298743 12:31:05 -!- talkingcatjazzca has quit [Client Quit] 12:37:06 03MarvinPA 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-135-gde247de: Hide staff of enchantment from the item knowledge screen 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=de247decca38 12:38:26 MarvinPA: Are pies still there? 12:38:31 Oh wait, 0.12 12:38:34 pies didn't ever exist in 0.12, yeah 12:45:05 MarvinPA: did you check that nobody has any pies left first? 12:45:29 though, I guess that's not really important since it only really applies to new pies? 12:46:28 is it possible to save a complete replay of a game I played with the offline version? 12:46:44 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 12:48:47 past tense "played"? no. 12:49:07 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:08 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:00 myrmidette: the only way I can think of to record an offline game involves running a *nix console build under something like ttyrec(1) 12:52:05 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:54:48 well you can record a video :p 12:57:08 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:32 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:58:53 -!- drage_lanyon is now known as drage 12:59:30 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:22 man, aptitude.h be crazy 13:00:33 er. 13:00:37 aptitudes.h 13:02:48 * SamB wonders if C++ has designated initializers, though 13:03:45 * SamB wonders if he got the wrong term 13:04:54 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:06:34 well, I'd like to file a feature request then 13:07:42 mind if I ask exactly what feature you want to request? 13:07:52 I mean, I'm assuming some kind of "record" function 13:10:04 * SamB grumbles about designated initializers not being allowed in G++ ... 13:14:42 yeah, a record function 13:15:00 like a super-morgue file 13:17:56 -!- nonethousand_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:21 -!- Chozo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 13:22:52 that's pretty hard, as nothing is really designed to allow that 13:23:23 altough I have thought about usin WebTiles messages to create replays, but there are quite a few more important things to deal with WebTiles first 13:28:22 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:34:03 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:35:38 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:37:45 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-505-g03c8a00: Update year in license.txt 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03c8a00e572f 13:37:45 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 13:40:00 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:45:14 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:52:29 oh, so that's MarvinPA's job 13:52:37 I was wondering :P 13:52:50 everything is MarvinPA's job 13:53:10 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:53:26 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:00:28 -!- Boyo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:01:17 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:01:18 -!- ryansee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:01:18 -!- omniguy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:02:07 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:04:35 oh, by the way, we should probably have some kind of declared policy for licensing of contributed tiles? 14:05:00 something that ensures they're DFSG-compliant and license-compatible with the other tiles? 14:08:07 Alchemist hat spawn with Ds with horns 3 by Reykjavikian 14:10:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:13:10 -!- freefall has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:13:27 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:37 kilobyte: so I see you discovered "#pragma GCC diagnostic", but you didn't add any general enable/disable/error macros 14:19:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:24:29 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:27:47 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:28:57 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 14:29:09 SamB: like most projects, there's a silent assumption every contributor agrees to the default license 14:29:28 kilobyte: but we don't seem to give one for tiles 14:29:34 because only a tiny percentage of people care about licenses, for the rest it's something that stands in the way of getting things done 14:30:08 yeah... but I guess folks assume it's the license of Crawl itself, ie, GPL 2+ 14:30:43 someone asked most tile contributors to relicense to CC0 around a couple of years ago, but that was worded as opt-in 14:31:41 I'm not sure I'm comfortable trying to apply the GPL to raster graphics made in arbitrary applications 14:32:45 though, I guess Debian wants the preferred form for modification too so we're iffy either way ... 14:33:31 it's tricky questions like that what's people shy away from :p 14:33:41 s/what's/what/ 14:34:30 I'm guessing that this kind of question could easily lead to tiles going into contrib 14:34:45 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35:11 I doubt many people bother with saving temporary versions of tiles 14:35:34 an in most cases, even if an .xcf exists, there have been manual operations after that 14:38:43 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:26 -!- drage has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 14:41:33 -!- ystael has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:43:16 so are we only obligated to keep any source materials the contributer sees fit to upload, then? 14:45:23 so, how come we have level_id taking up 8 whole bytes? 14:46:28 because no one raised this issue before 14:46:45 I'd look at coord_def first, it shows prominently on profiling 14:48:11 as for "#pragma GCC diagnostic", I added it as clang shows up these warnings by default, and some meant actual miscompilation (ie, with wrong behaviour), so I'd really keep it warning clear so actual problems show up 14:48:24 <|amethyst> the abyss needs 32-bit coordinates in each axis, but maybe it should be using a different type (or make a template, and make coord_def a typedef for the 16-bit version) 14:48:45 |amethyst: thanks for the info 14:49:30 <|amethyst> I think it was bh who widened it the most recently? 14:50:18 <|amethyst> no, I'm mistaken 14:51:22 <|amethyst> it's always been ints, but bh changed it to marshall as ints (instead of shorts) 14:51:31 <|amethyst> %git 13c96e0 14:51:41 03bh * 0.12-a0-1502-g13c96e0: Marshall coord_def as ints 10(7 months ago, 2 files, 17+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=13c96e0753db 14:51:48 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51:56 what, in all instances? 14:52:16 <|amethyst> yes 14:57:56 * SamB wonders if we really need an explict implentation of "operator !=" for coord_def -- and why we call signum sgn() 14:58:16 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:27 SamB: what's wrong with sgn()? 14:59:31 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:00:19 well, it's just not what I'm used to I guess 15:00:28 I'm for one used to than name as I coded a lot in Pascal when I was young, and I'm not really aware of anything using signum(). 15:00:34 s/than/that/ 15:00:35 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:16 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:33 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:33 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:02:06 dammit, "git log -S" takes AGES on a spinning disk if you haven't used gc --aggressive in a while 15:02:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:22 ... and it wasn't me who added it 15:07:00 yeah, so I'm strange for having learned of the function in the context of Haskell ;-) 15:09:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:09:22 -!- Nareusm has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:15:34 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 15:17:58 oh, do we actually need an explicit implementation for "level_id()" 15:18:29 I can see our current one sets depth to -1 for some reason 15:19:36 kilobyte: any idea about that? 15:20:20 ... oh, and should the item_def pretty-printer print orig_monnum as monster_type, now that we use it that way? 15:22:42 orig_monnum includes some other values than just monster_type 15:22:56 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:23:21 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:23:59 oh, right 15:24:13 (why is that just in the commit message?) 15:26:39 -!- Gilihad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:27:48 -!- Nareusm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:28:11 hrm, two-row hp bar looks really weird (http://angband.pl/tmp/Screenshot-20130427-161839.png) 15:28:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:58 and making it single row would need refactoring the HUD, it already includes lots of nasty special cases for Zot Points and quiver 15:29:16 why did you use parens there, when <> are the accepted delimiters? 15:29:28 (what I currently have uses the second line to double the resolution) 15:30:15 SamB: ? 15:30:57 my IRC client doesn't recognize URLs when surrounded by parens 15:31:12 ah 15:32:07 my IRC client doesn't know what a URL is 15:32:20 whats a url 15:32:36 mnoqy: a URI that gets you something 15:32:49 :-) 15:41:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:54 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:17 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!] 15:45:20 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:04 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:59:01 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:59:56 -!- GuraKKa1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:20 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-506-g59108de: Fix an unrand vault 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=59108dee7ea3 16:04:20 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-507-g3029c17: Remove an altar vault 10(16 minutes ago, 2 files, 8+ 91-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3029c1774059 16:04:20 Cherry-picked 2 commits into stone_soup-0.12 16:04:22 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:45 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:04 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:19 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 16:07:50 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:10:32 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:03 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:07 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:17:36 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:18:55 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 16:24:25 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:46 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:29:44 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:30:25 -!- OndePyrat has quit [Quit: rage quit] 16:31:01 -!- Zephryn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:30 -!- magicallyrical is now known as syraine 16:40:43 torn667 (L10 DsGl) (D:10) 16:44:47 TSO shapeshifter quibble by BlackSheep 16:45:21 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 16:47:53 so, is it intended that antennae don't work to detect invisibile monsters on visibile squares? 16:48:30 also, it seems strange to explicitly list badchars rather than goodchars in ng-restr.cc 16:53:26 -!- Krenium has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:59:00 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:14 Why do Chaos Knights get chaos branded weapons 17:00:00 For one thing, no other background has a branded weapon to start, chaos is notoriously dangerous, and Chaos Knights are already random enough without adding berserk invisible shadow creatures 17:00:34 I guess it seemed like a fun idea? 17:00:45 It's pretty brutal 17:01:21 In every respect but raw damage, a +2 light weapon is far better than a +0 chaos weapon on D:1 unless you are already surrounded by titans 17:02:01 we could arrange for tnat 17:02:10 of course, it would probably make the game unwinnable ... 17:02:18 No need, I've been there 17:03:17 Make it, like, +2 17:05:13 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:07 Zin text has no indication he punishes self transmutation (other than necro) by morik 17:18:23 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:20:10 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-508-gf93f574: Add no transforming to Zin's conduct list 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f93f57408c06 17:20:11 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 17:25:28 -!- lambskin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:27:09 -!- ChongLi has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:29:01 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:29:16 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:30:22 * SamB wonders what this means: 17:30:24 ench: invis (0:399 N/A), paralysis (0:175 N/A) 17:30:36 in particular, what does the N/A mean 17:30:53 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:32:34 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:32:42 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:37:24 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:50 -!- ahpla_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:53 -!- Havvy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:35 ctrl-F for things I've never seen by rchandra 17:56:29 -!- keksz has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 18:06:03 hmph, runed doors have a fixed out-of-los colour I see 18:06:11 looks pretty bad when you recolour them 18:08:01 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:28 maybe I shouldn't even use runed doors 18:12:19 hah, does Jory explode into blood with you use &G or something 18:12:28 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:33 human zombie (07z) | Spd: 8 | HD: 9 | HP: 6-98 | AC/EV: 0/7 | Dam: 8 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(12), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 102 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 18:12:33 %?? human zombie 18:12:39 !seen kilobyte 18:12:39 I last saw kilobyte at Sat Apr 27 21:05:18 2013 UTC (2h 7m 21s ago) saying 'like, use D:{your xl}' on ##crawl. 18:12:42 haha he does, that is great 18:13:01 kilobyte: bad form: zombie form. You don't heal, you can't use stairs. 18:13:09 ghoul form 18:13:15 BlastHardcheese: rot is mean :( 18:13:25 ikr 18:17:33 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:34 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:19:14 human skeleton (15z) | Spd: 8 | HD: 9 | HP: 5-83 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 8 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(12), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 89 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 18:19:14 %?? human skeleton 18:21:26 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:32 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:25:26 hmm, allowing detection of insibile monsters on visible squares looks a bit tough :-( 18:27:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:28:17 maybe you can do it where disturbances are generated? 18:28:45 oh right, ash also gives toughness info 18:28:48 hmpf 18:34:06 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 18:35:35 -!- inpho has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:42 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:37:45 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 18:38:44 -!- Yen_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:38:45 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:42 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:47 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 18:39:56 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:43:28 lich (15L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 59-99 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 1513(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4059 | Sp: b.cold (3d29), paralyse, greater demon, animate dead, iron shot (3d34), teleport self / b.draining (3d24), slow, invisibility, throw icicle (3d29), crystal spear (3d40) / b.fire (3d29), confuse, haste, b.draining (3d24), greater demon, banishment / mystic blast (3d24), b.cold (3d29), invisibility, animate dead, destruction orb (8d17) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 18:43:28 %??lich 18:45:26 ughh trying to use different tiles for doors is going to be a pain isn't it 18:46:54 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:48:39 good thing I have no shit to give about tiles then 18:51:40 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 18:52:53 -!- Utis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:03 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:59 ??trog's hand 19:00:59 trogs hand[1/2]: Trog power which grants regeneration at the same rate as the spell, as well as 70 mr, for a duration heavily dependent on piety. Works even on deep dwarves, mummies, and bloodless vampires. Ignores sickness. 19:01:01 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:01:06 ??trog's hand[2] 19:01:06 trogs hand[2/2]: Healing doesn't scale up with berserk, so you effectively heal only 2/3 for the same piety cost. 19:01:11 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:01:13 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 19:05:02 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:24 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:31 -!- Zelda has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:12:44 !messages 19:12:44 (1/2) Lightli said (43m 8s ago): remove that vault please 19:12:49 !messages 19:12:49 (1/1) rchandra said (43m 6s ago): fr: emove the fedhas vault that has you autoexplore into all the rapid growing oklobs 19:14:04 -!- Zelda has quit [Client Quit] 19:14:05 +1 to removing that vault or making it not produce hostiles 19:14:15 yeah it's pretty bad 19:14:41 like when I get it I place about 4 exclusions immediately because I know what will happen 19:15:44 i think i added a force more on whatever the first message it creates is 19:15:52 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:15:54 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 19:16:01 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 19:17:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:18:15 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:19:27 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:54 so, this is fedhas_growing_garden in fedhas_garden.des, right? 19:22:38 !vault fedhas_growing_garden 19:22:39 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/7731117 19:22:56 yeah 19:26:32 New branch created: zombieform (1 commit) 19:26:32 03bh 07[zombieform] * 0.13-a0-509-gf80e7b3: Yet Another Bad Form: Zombie Form 10(8 minutes ago, 8 files, 62+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f80e7b35daed 19:28:39 gooddevteam 19:29:49 -!- ButterBiscuits has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:30:16 hm? 19:31:31 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 19:31:39 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:48 I still need to handle good gods correctly and fix auto-travel. Maybe good gods should veto zombie form polymorph 19:33:37 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:34:30 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:09 yay for more special cases, bad forms are the best 19:35:33 completely worth it, not a bad feature at all 19:36:07 st_: were crawl object oriented... 19:36:49 so if you can polymorph into a zombie why can't zombies polymorph 19:37:03 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:13 SwissStopwatch: you can polymorph into a Lich, but liches can't polymorph. Deal with it? :) 19:37:19 Yes I'm sort of kidding 19:38:03 there's a reason I pushed it to a branch. I have enough bad ideas that it makes sense for other folks to have a look before I go to trunk 19:38:12 if demons can polymorph why the fuck do demons polymorph 19:38:29 polymorph doesn't actually seem like something with terribly consistent logic 19:38:36 halfway consistent but not really fully 19:39:25 realism, schmealism. Bad forms is a huge improvement on 'some wand gives you berserkitis 3' 19:39:47 It's much less annoying, I would say 19:40:04 although quite a lot more likely to be instantly lethal because a lot of the forms aren't merely bad 19:40:29 makes MR relevant 19:40:31 -!- bh has quit [Quit: dinner] 19:40:33 note that I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing :P 19:40:52 (MR wasn't relevant before?) 19:42:07 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-509-g56bd999: Adjust lugonu_bribe for god changes, identify guaranteed loot 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 34+ 26-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=56bd9991e980 19:42:07 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 19:42:09 pitsprint patch by st 19:42:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 19:42:18 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:42:18 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 19:45:25 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:48:40 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:50:18 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:19 -!- ckyle has quit [Client Quit] 19:56:40 okay, I got banished while trying to test something, what's the easiest way back? 19:56:49 in wizmode 19:56:50 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:22 &B 19:57:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:12 -!- Q-Flex has quit [] 20:01:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:16:16 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:16:25 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 20:17:29 03SamB 07* 0.13-a0-510-g2a5f276: Remove fedhas_growing_garden for being majorly annoying (rchandra) 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 308-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2a5f276b444b 20:18:08 thank god 20:18:18 To be honest, if you just removed the oklob part, it would actually be really cool 20:18:29 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:20:18 Lightli: patches welcome 20:25:23 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:25:56 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 20:25:58 !learn edit layouts[1] s|.*|There's a lot of different patterns for crawl levels, from standard rooms and corridors to a level being a giant cross. Comments and potential depths are in dat/des/builder/layout[_foo].des, and &P[layout] to put names to layouts.| 20:25:58 layouts[1/2]: There's a lot of different patterns for crawl levels, from standard rooms and corridors to a level being a giant cross. Comments and potential depths are in dat/des/builder/layout[_foo].des, and &P[layout] to put names to layouts. 20:26:43 !learn edit layouts[2] s|.*|https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdEJ4WnFDQjZhcGgyS3puWk1zQU9saEE contains a list of D's layouts by depth and weight, and a full map-to-name chart.| 20:26:43 layouts[2/2]: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdEJ4WnFDQjZhcGgyS3puWk1zQU9saEE contains a list of D's layouts by depth and weight, and a full map-to-name chart. 20:27:32 I'd start a conversation about how from all of these maps the thing I notice more than open or tight and structured or chaotic/natural is about just simplicity versus complexity, 20:28:27 and how if D level progression was going to be done with all of these new layouts then it should be about that sort of simplicity versus complexity for e.g. big_grid replacing forbidden_donut at late depths or cross replaced by hall_layers 20:28:43 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 20:28:47 but mumra's not here so he can just read this backlog because you jerks don't talk much about levels 20:28:50 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 20:29:33 learn add devteam you jerks 20:29:35 did I miss something 20:29:45 eeviac: a ghost 20:29:49 just hangedman 20:29:58 hi hangedman 20:30:03 oh he's gone 20:30:12 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:30:14 it's fine he saw 20:30:15 he is still reading our words 20:30:18 he's reading the backlog right now 20:34:04 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:28 -!- eeviac has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:06 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:06 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:11 "thank you for proving my point" 20:35:13 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 20:35:39 hm 20:35:55 so 20:36:12 I think he was hoping we'd say something about levels 20:36:26 what is he doing 20:36:33 I guess it does sorta make sense to make things more fiendishly complicated further on 20:36:51 is he reading all of crawl-dev chat without actually being logged on 20:36:53 or something 20:37:00 yes 20:37:01 elliott: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 20:37:01 we have logs, yes 20:37:03 ##crawl-dev is logged. 20:37:05 eeviac: yes it's logged, see the topic 20:37:06 help 20:37:14 oh I see 20:37:16 hi hangedman 20:37:20 elliott is beyond help!!! 20:37:31 elliott: help with what? 20:37:44 I tend to agree with him about putting more complicated stuff later but I'm not allowed to talk about levels because I'm not mumra 20:37:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:38:04 SamB: help with the receiving a magical message 20:38:10 from a sky beast 20:38:10 elliott needs an exorcism 20:38:24 is there a hexorcist anywhere 20:38:27 elliott: didn't you read what Henzell said? 20:38:32 !send elliott a HEXECUTIONER 20:38:32 Sending a HEXECUTIONER to elliott. 20:38:49 !tell elliot have another message 20:38:49 SamB: OK, I'll let elliot know. 20:38:55 !tell SamB hi 20:38:56 hi elliot 20:38:56 Grunt: OK, I'll let samb know. 20:38:57 it seems that it would be a cool reward when a player makes it deeper to get to see these more exciting layouts then, and simpler layouts earlier makes it easier for newer players to concentrate on other stuff 20:39:08 !messages 20:39:09 (1/1) Grunt said (12s ago): hi 20:39:36 !tell Henzell Hi. 20:39:37 Grunt: OK, I'll let henzell know. 20:39:41 <_ 20:39:42 <_< 20:40:32 should say "I can hear you just fine" 20:41:11 SamB: some day someone called elliot is going to get into crawl 20:41:14 and they'll be the most confused ever 20:41:24 oh hehe 20:41:42 -!- elliptic is now known as elliot 20:41:44 !Messages 20:41:44 (1/3) rwbarton said (24w 2d 20h 25m 28s ago): < Sizzell> rw (L4 MuCK) killed Sigmund. (D:3) 20:41:44 they'll be shunned for making ellitab even worse 20:41:47 !messages 20:41:48 (1/2) djanatyn said (12w 3d 15h 40m 14s ago): thank you for not telling me to press s 20:41:49 !messages 20:41:49 (1/1) SamB said (3m ago): have another message 20:41:53 haa 20:41:53 -!- elliot is now known as elliptic 20:42:03 hehehe 20:42:03 SamB: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:42:07 !learn add ellitab -!- elliptic is now known as elliot 20:42:08 ellitab[4/4]: -!- elliptic is now known as elliot 20:42:14 those are some good messages 20:43:35 I should change my name to elliviac 20:43:47 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:50:07 why do we start priests with ** if they're only going to go back down to * in a few turns? 20:52:21 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 20:53:45 it probly has less to do with starting at ** and more with whatever value of piety they were assigned sounded like a good number 20:54:09 like '40 piety sounds good, they'll start with 40' 20:54:49 45, actually 20:55:41 I don't know what zin's ** ability is, or if there even is one 20:55:41 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:47 that's how much I play zin 20:55:58 * SamB was actually playing HOPr 20:56:09 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:00:01 ??zin 21:00:02 zin[1/1]: Zin gives mutation resistance (growing to immunity at max piety), {recite} (enchantment-type effects on humanoids), {vitalisation} (protection from debuffs), {imprison} (tomb other), {sanctuary} (creates a temporary attack-free zone), and passive lifesaving. At max piety he can cure all your mutations (only once). 21:00:12 ??vitalisation 21:00:13 vitalisation[1/1]: Protects you from sickness, nausea, poison, confusion, petrification, rot and stat drain while active, and boosts your stats (up to +9 each, depending on Invoc skill). Gives a small amount of nutrition, but won't go past Full. 21:00:21 ??imprison 21:00:21 imprison[1/1]: Zin ability. Puts a tomb of silver walls around a targeted creature. Requires all adjacent squares to be free of monsters and features, and expires quite quickly. Duration is increased with invocations skill, and decreased by the HD of the target. 21:00:28 these don't list stars 21:00:50 hmmm +9 stats sounds pretty good 21:00:58 mayeb I should do a zingame for the tournament 21:02:12 SamB: iirc HOPr starts with a different piety amount than Pr of zin, even 21:02:48 many of the religious backgrounds start with different piety amounts; I think it is all arbitrary 21:03:21 oh, I guess I'm wrong about Pr of beogh and Pr of zin starting at different amounts 21:04:08 Be 35, Pr 45, DK 35, AK 38, He 55 21:04:19 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:24 38 21:04:29 good number 21:04:53 oh, and monks start with something I guess... 21:05:06 what's a good way to bookmark a commit? 21:05:06 SamB: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 21:05:09 monks get 35 21:05:11 !messages 21:05:12 (1/2) tenofswords said (23m 12s ago): okay fine here's some context I was annoyed when I was writing up for some other forum http://sprunge.us/YgYM 21:05:19 !messages 21:05:20 (1/1) tenofswords said (3m 35s ago): you're no fun for not linking that rant in ##-dev 21:05:45 SamB: hm, priests don't seem to start with ** to me 21:05:58 need 50 for ** 21:06:14 ... there are metallic plants in dis 21:06:17 . 21:06:39 oh, well, maybe they start at "*" and drop to "" then? 21:06:57 or maybe something is confused at start time so the piety and stars don't match? 21:07:33 my browser needs wordwrap 21:07:42 hard to read hangedpost 21:07:43 SamB: well, I just started priests and they were actually at * as expected 21:07:57 -!- ryansee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:30 oh wow yeah 21:09:38 can metallic plants not be a thing 21:09:49 MarvinPA: I am working on it 21:09:55 and many other things 21:09:55 do they have bush-like AC at least 21:10:02 can you lrd metallic plants 21:10:03 metal trees are bad enough 21:10:06 powergaming 21:10:21 although actually i guess they are just the same badness 21:10:21 though this is a layout so I am apprehensive to touch it 21:11:46 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 21:13:27 so I just hit dat/des/serial 21:13:38 this is going to be satisfying 21:14:13 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:39 1tell mumra help! there are metallic plants in dis and they seem kind of bad 21:15:08 st_: you know, in that patch of address all non-sprint vault monsters I was going to still keep a _few_ 21:15:23 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:15:26 I have left a few 21:15:36 admittedly I had and currently have no idea in the slightest to really address things like rogues_gallery 21:16:36 I will leave aquarium.des bat simulacrum name:ice_bat for you 21:16:42 it adds flavour 21:16:57 I have to admit I kind of hate bat vault 21:17:41 I would not object to rogues_gallery dying horribly in a fire. 21:17:47 flavour and jokes and nothing actually interesting or dangerous - 21:17:55 that was not the expected response 21:18:20 Believe it or not, I think I have become less insane as a vault designer since the times when I thought rogues_gallery seemed like a good idea. 21:20:05 I could see a handful of the ideas being done with more heavily controlled monsters in a portal vault but yes there are just too many problems with the thing as a whole 21:20:58 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:19 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0a2/20130426004017]] 21:27:15 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 21:31:17 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:13 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 21:32:24 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:53 -!- CreepingCrawled has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:34:13 dat/des/traps the first dir without any removes, the purest set of .des files 21:36:27 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:36:54 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:38:08 hai 21:38:17 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 21:38:38 (okay fine I'll stop jumping in and out for the rest of the night) 21:39:06 surely dat/des/traps has vault features, although I suppose that is a seperate patch/concern 21:39:57 one thing at a time 21:42:44 it seems awkward to let repulsive energy and spines be on the same demonspawn 21:43:12 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:26 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:52 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 21:45:17 how much damage does spines do anyways 21:45:25 or 'do spines do' 21:45:31 ??spines 21:45:32 spiny[1/1]: Mutation, has a chance of doing (xd6 (where x is mutation level) - enemy AC - player EVP) damage to enemies in melee combat when their attack is not blocked by the player. Subject to monster EV. 21:45:35 not much 21:45:39 (on monsters) 21:45:53 passive freeze sounds a lot better 21:46:08 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:46:09 Yeah, that amount of damage...I'd rather have a +1 str mutation. 21:46:16 Well, spines also miss a heck of a lot 21:47:17 I've never seen spines as dangerous. 21:47:48 that's the problem 21:47:51 it's a bad mutation 21:48:03 Conceptually it's fine, but I think it should be more effective 21:48:57 maybe it could be paired onto some current type of scales 21:49:14 there's a few scales muts that are pretty bad 21:49:22 Well, simply making it a lot more accurate (and a little more damaging?) might be okay, really 21:49:34 the best thing about this is also needing to remove a million things from the description file 21:49:48 Is this some kind of vault monster purge? 21:49:59 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:50:05 yes 21:50:07 spines is pretty good at level 3 21:50:17 it's only really underpowered before then I think 21:50:22 that entry is also wrong i think 21:50:38 well EVP is now EVP/3 at the very least! 21:51:24 i think it applies ac normally 21:52:36 Possibly spine accuracy should not scale with mutation level, so that it can always be good, and just scale the damage. I had actually idly thought something similar for monster spines, so that porcupine spines could ever actually hit anything. 21:53:00 Without simultaneously making hell sentinel spines crazy 21:53:33 Can trip while being cast deeper into the abyss by elliptic 21:55:01 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:18 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:55:19 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:38 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:55:53 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:57:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:12 -!- CampinSam has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 22:03:42 -!- BurningLed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:20 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:07 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:12:42 well 22:12:50 I think that is it 22:15:08 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:44 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:23:56 elliptic: on downstairs, or? 22:24:05 SamB: no 22:24:21 strange 22:24:50 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:25:53 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:27:32 Well, I can visualize a hole in space opening up beneath you, and then you tripping up and falling before it finishes sucking you in :P 22:27:38 But the message does still sound strange, of course 22:28:02 so the new aevp thing is pretty cool. I also like how it doesn't help draconians at all 22:28:49 why on earth would it 22:29:29 is lua save compat saving only for callbacks 22:30:02 I meant I like how it makes strength more useful but strength is still almost entirely useless for dr 22:30:08 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:31:09 these sound like completely unrelated things 22:31:46 they are, I just like to complain about dr and their excess strengnth 22:32:13 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 22:32:39 big dragon be big and strong and tough raar 22:32:41 MarvinPA will happily take away their str without giving them anything else in return 22:33:07 you should enjoy your extra 3% to melee damage and +1 accuracy or whatever depending on weapons 22:33:38 well it's not bad when you're a holy dragon warrior kill everything with dragon form 22:33:53 (which is the best way to play crawl) 22:34:08 see, isn't it great 22:34:14 and you get to carry all the potions you want too 22:34:31 Carrying capacity for the pack-dracs. 22:34:46 "dr have too much strength!" - solution: make items heavier 22:34:54 (wasn't increasing str effect on melee damage sort-of planned for melee formula rewrite?) 22:35:04 eeviac: Noo 22:35:22 I already have too many inv. issues with a SpEn 22:35:26 wait that's badly worded 22:35:27 Honestly, one downside of making str matter more for melee damage at this point is that it's effectively a buff for races that least need a melee buff 22:35:41 dr don't have too much strength, they don't have a use for the strength they have 22:35:41 quite possibly 22:35:47 Or a nerf for those who least need it, depending on how the scale works 22:35:57 Deep elves: clearly too strong in melee 22:36:10 I do not believe we need to completely overhaul melee in order to find a use for strength 22:36:13 DracoOmega: Then pair it with nerfs to the races that don't need the buff. 22:36:21 hitting things as a deep elf is a bit of a secret tech 22:36:22 the aevp change is a good step 22:36:25 It's not even really that str is a bad stat, it's that usually characters that want to use Str start with it 22:36:34 elliott clearly you don't know how to play a caster 22:36:41 casters do not hit 22:36:42 elliott: I didn't mean to imply that they were terrible at it, but they hardly need to be made WORS 22:36:50 so it can be hard to find situations where raising it is a defensible choice instead of Int/Dex 22:37:11 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:27 eeviac: look i'm telling you desk is a power combo 22:37:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:37:58 it's definitely a good word 22:38:05 up there with HECK 22:38:11 most of us are sitting at one right now probably 22:39:01 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-511-ga7765e3: Simplify. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a7765e341cf2 22:39:01 03dolorous 07[zombieform] * 0.13-a0-510-g5befbaf: Don't use mprf() when mpr() will do. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5befbaf75cab 22:39:24 Incidentally, I don't think zombieform can be a badform, no matter what it does 22:39:33 Since the rules are pretty clear that you can't poly living into unliving 22:40:04 fr new undead polyforms so we can bring back mutm 22:40:37 DracoOmega: what about lichform 22:40:40 I mean the - yes that 22:40:44 draco you saved cj, now save mutm 22:40:55 I did mention that earlier although... honestly, is it maybe the sort of thing where flexibility would be possible if the form were actually desirable to have for other reasons? 22:41:21 SamB: That is different. But the rules are quite explicit that polymorph won't move a creature to a different holiness value 22:41:28 (so the real question is "Is it actually a good idea aside from that snag?") 22:41:49 DracoOmega: uh? 22:41:53 where are these "rules" written? 22:41:55 polymorph spell cast on self can give you state form 22:41:56 *statue 22:42:02 which yred treats as nonliving 22:42:07 Hmmmm... =/ 22:42:12 SamB: Well, in the polymorph code 22:42:23 statue is not exactly your typical undead 22:42:25 Well, statue form is considered partially living 22:42:30 Except by Yred, I guess? 22:42:39 Since it is affected by things that only affect living things 22:42:43 but, not exactly your typical living being either 22:42:45 I would probably argue that a form where your main drawback is "can't use stairs" is A. annoying and B. already exists 22:42:46 Or that don't affect nonliving, I mean 22:42:58 Yes, I don't think zombieform is especially interesting here, either 22:43:14 But especially so given that poly simply cannot produce this kind of effect normally 22:43:40 huh, what do you think of the new OOTS website? 22:44:01 as long as zombieform doesn't slow you down, it could be an amusing low level alternative to lichformspellspamming 22:44:13 good crayon drawing 22:44:47 zapping poly at yourself to get a badform wheee 22:45:03 I wonder if anyone will ever sap themselves with it to try to hit the dragonform chance 22:45:13 That seems pretty bad 22:45:19 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:45:31 no need to zap 22:45:32 it does! 22:45:32 you can learn the spell 22:45:51 elliott: but that isn't as stylish 22:46:02 are you saying poly spell isn't stylish 22:46:17 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:18 are we not talking about dragonform here 22:46:24 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:47:00 no i meant learning the polymorph spell 22:47:03 and casting it at yourself 22:47:04 which works fyi 22:47:23 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 22:47:51 nice 22:47:59 totally learning polyspell now 22:48:08 wispformzigging 22:48:40 badforms being scummable seems bad somehow 22:48:47 if also amusing 22:48:58 fun!??!?!? better remove it 22:49:09 There is already a form that forbids stair use 22:49:21 eeviac: so I should put back that fedhas altar vault then? 22:49:23 It is called Felid Bat Form 22:49:46 if it's not fun, put it in 22:49:52 ??felid bat 22:49:52 I don't have a page labeled felid_bat in my learndb. 22:49:58 what's special about felid bat form? just super low strength? 22:50:02 Yeah 22:50:03 eeviac: but that's just why I just took it out... 22:50:07 because it is NOT FUN 22:50:12 What altar vault 22:50:16 Was it the one where plants appear randomly 22:50:22 yeah 22:50:30 That's a cool vault 22:50:32 Once 22:50:32 oklobs 22:50:41 The one time when you enter it and get hit for 45 22:50:55 on the subject of oklobs, I could've sworn they couldn't sinv 22:50:59 but now then can? 22:51:09 They can't see invisible, that's actually the basis of an entire fixed map 22:51:21 fedhas mad dash? 22:51:22 @0.9?oklob sapling 22:51:25 Yeah ~ 22:51:29 oklob sapling (11P) | Speed: 10 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Flags: 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(16), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++ | XP: 60 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5). 22:51:29 %0.9?oklob sapling 22:51:40 oklob sapling (11P) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 13-31 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(16), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 60 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 22:51:40 %??oklob sapling 22:51:41 oklob plant (09P) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 560 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 22:51:41 %??oklob_plant 22:51:53 oklobs don't get that colored in tile for dudes who can't see you 22:52:41 eeviac: maybe it's just the game being confused about who needs it because they can't move 22:52:51 they used to get it 22:52:55 I'm 99% sure 22:53:13 what does see invisible for sure? 22:53:48 you mean a monster that has sinv? vampires 22:53:55 vampire (05V) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-46 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 15, 1505(vampiric) | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(48), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 213 | Sp: vampiric draining, confuse, invisibility | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 22:53:55 %??vampire 22:54:13 so as you can see oklob haven't it 22:54:18 burning bush (05P) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-58 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 313 | Sp: flame puff (3d7) | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 22:54:18 %??burning bush 22:54:35 yeah I know that, but the game no longer shows that oklobs can't see you 22:54:39 I knew I remembered zotdef turrets that could 22:54:40 that should probly be fixed 22:54:48 probably! 22:54:59 DracoOmega: a couple weird things about battlesphere I'm noticing using it on an IE: freeze never triggers it and throw frost doesn't seem to trigger it when used on an ice beast (presumably because it is immune to ice?) 22:55:24 elliptic: Freeze shouldn't trigger it, but the throw frost thing sounds really odd 22:55:33 ... 22:55:43 Oklobs never showed they could not see you 22:55:51 I thought that was part of the 'thing' 22:55:53 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:56:03 Er, perhaps before 0.7 22:56:12 so it is a bug in the backgroundy thingy? 22:56:23 elliptic: Like, I can't think of any part of the code that cares whether you DAMAGED something, only that you fired at it 22:56:25 I think it's a thing to do with plant holiness 22:56:27 But I shall investigate 22:56:48 I didn't start playing until .10 trunk and I'm convinced that oklobs used to indicate that they can't sinv 22:56:54 DracoOmega: well, either that or battlesphere has become really bad at figuring out how to move to shoot at stuff since the last time I used it 22:57:02 I mean that, like, they don't show if they can't see you 22:57:03 Ever 22:57:07 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:57:39 DracoOmega: I did also notice a situation where I cast icicle at an ice statue, and the battlesphere could have moved once and then fired an the ice statue, but instead it moved three squares and didn't fire 22:57:40 elliptic: Hmmm... I wonder if Grunt's change to how monster turns are scheduled might have affected it? 22:57:45 in a mostly open situation 22:58:02 ...actually, I think I can see how it may have 22:58:26 Since it clears firing orders after one turn spent trying to follow them 22:58:28 I didn't test the ice beast thing very thoroughly, so possibly it is just a matter of battlesphere being more generally broken 22:58:31 regardless of whether they used to show it or not, if all other nonsinv monsters have a visual indication that they can't see invisible you, oklobs should do the same. 22:58:47 But now instead of getting several actions in one turn, it will have them split among multiple turns 22:58:52 yes it sounds plausible that grunt ruined battlesphere, the scoundrel 22:58:54 So probably it will not fire at all if it has to move to do so? 22:59:09 DracoOmega: what "it" will clear firing orders after one turn? 22:59:21 DracoOmega: yeah that seems right 22:59:27 SamB: battlesphere 22:59:29 SamB: When the battlesphere's turn comes up a second time 22:59:35 Grunt: you are ruining too well 22:59:45 how many demerits does he get 23:00:02 This is at least the second time he's broken that spell :P 23:00:07 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:37 so, Grunt-=9000 ? 23:00:51 In this case, possibly a simple solution is to reset firing orders when the PLAYER'S turn rolls around? 23:01:00 I haven't looked at the way the new monster action loop is structured, really 23:01:15 DracoOmega: sounds sensible to me 23:02:08 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:14 -!- Lightli_ is now known as Lightli 23:04:28 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 23:06:08 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 23:06:16 Actually... probably it may be better to give the battlesphere itself a turn counter that's more than 1 23:06:41 Hmmm... though that might mean that if you were hasted, sometimes it wouldn't fire until the turn following it, and that would look odd 23:06:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:30 solution: it casts haste on itself when you get hasted! 23:09:40 Monsters actually cannot be faster than speed 30, it seems 23:09:59 Or they CAN, but it does nothing 23:10:19 Due to the way energy is capped 23:14:19 -!- web has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:25 Checking aptitudes at weapon selection renders me a Yak by melchizedek 23:16:28 I think that one's a dupe ... 23:16:37 I'll mark it as one 23:16:50 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:46 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:19:12 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:19:19 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:20:34 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:21 -!- Blade-_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:31:22 Actually, maybe there's an easier way to do this, now that I look at the new code for the monster action loop 23:31:49 Since there still is one part of it called one-per-player-turn 23:33:26 have you considered unifying player and monster speed 23:33:26 Eronarn: You have 73 messages. Use !messages to read them. 23:34:27 Well, that's not really relevant to this specific issue 23:36:35 have you considered reading your messages 23:36:55 elliott: i get notifications, so i don't need to 23:37:19 What if they used !tell via PM? 23:38:27 just think of the memories though 23:38:31 then i didn't hear them say it, duh!! 23:38:37 elliott: there is a web list of messages 23:38:42 ??messages 23:38:42 message[1/1]: Press 'm' to send a message to a player you're watching. To reply to a player watching you, press ':'. 23:38:51 eh, too lazy to find it, but 23:38:59 There... is? 23:39:00 Eronarn: i believe it is now inaccessible 23:39:01 ??tell 23:39:01 since new CAO 23:39:02 I don't have a page labeled tell in my learndb. 23:39:07 elliott: curses 23:39:09 sooo 23:39:10 get reading 23:39:13 never 23:39:22 /nick Eronarn 23:40:13 also, i am closing in on 1500 commits in my RL and it's still not appreciably different to play than it was a year ago B) 23:44:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:51 -!- Felsg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:44:54 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:47:21 Well, it should be fixed now 23:47:31 Turns out it was an extremely simple fix after all 23:47:46 -!- dupo has quit [] 23:54:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:54:49 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-512-gffa3d37: Fix battlespheres being unable to reposition to fire at targets 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ffa3d37d7b1d 23:59:03 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:59:54 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]]