00:00:09 Grunt: this is kind of an early version of an algorithm idea for what will eventually be the most flexible layout generator yet ;) 00:00:26 actually it uses the same grid algorithm as that one you commented you were seeing everywhere 00:00:52 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-446-g1bf6f2f (34) 00:01:09 but then a post-process that connects up all the cells in a maze instead of just drawing a box in each cell ... 00:02:18 <|amethyst> has anyone suggested, as a "prize", letting the tournament winner (by whatever measure) design a unique? 00:02:26 anyway for now i think it's ok in those branches, later it'll have more branch-specific variations as well so it'll work better (and yeah, maybe crypt and even tar are worth considering) 00:02:32 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:18 also, there are a ton of different types of layout i can generate from the same grid system now it's working ... 00:04:46 what i was mainly aiming for was generating stuff with more corridors/doors/chokepoints than most of the other layouts i've been ading 00:05:02 since there's way too much open space in a lot of the new ones right now 00:06:38 |amethyst: sounds like a potentially nice idea btw 00:07:05 |amethyst: I don't really see the point, since a well-designed unique would get into the game anyway and why would we want a not-well-designed unique? 00:10:02 elliptic: we could let the winner suggest and flavor a unique and then design it ourselves 00:10:33 ...and that's how we ended up with Spleaf McBeefcake the Otter of TSO 00:11:18 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:26 -!- bh has quit [Quit: back in a few days] 00:22:47 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:36:10 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 00:40:49 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:44:25 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-447-gebb0eb7: Factor out omnigrid connect-up 10(6 hours ago, 2 files, 81+ 58-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ebb0eb78c4b5 00:44:25 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-448-ge6bae66: Slightly improve callbacks for grid connecting 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 12-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e6bae66aa9d5 00:44:25 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-449-gd566dd8: Upgrade layout_grid_maze 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 29+ 7-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d566dd837950 00:45:48 -!- Nareusm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:53:09 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:55:59 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:58:36 -!- ground4 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 01:06:28 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:06:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:57 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:12:34 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:13:49 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:15:31 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 01:23:18 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:36:00 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:11 -!- dupo has quit [] 01:39:15 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:12 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54:57 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 01:59:28 how can I clone 0.12 from gitorious? I just want to play it, but compiling from a tarball gave me an error http://pastebin.com/MY5gZx4f 02:02:38 myrmidette, windows or linux? 02:03:12 linux 02:03:23 pretty obvious from the pastebin 02:04:08 ??git 02:04:09 git[1/2]: Readonly: git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git Read/Write: git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl.git Web interface: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git or http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 02:04:22 myrmidette, ^ 02:04:31 ??compile crawl 02:04:31 compile crawl[1/2]: [Linux] You'll need git, build-essential, zlib1g-dev, libncurses5-dev, libncursesw5-dev, then "git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git; cd DCSS; git submodule update --init; cd crawl-ref/sources/; make [options]" 02:05:10 myrmidette, don't forget to initialize the submodules. If you want a normal (non-wiz mode) game, you won't need any options, just "make" will suffice. 02:05:18 I just tried that and got 0.13 02:05:28 with git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git 02:05:36 I want 0.12 02:05:37 check the branches, there should be a stone-soup-0.12 branch 02:06:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:06:13 git branch -lr 02:06:27 but the branch is "stone-soup-0.12" 02:06:46 I'm sorry, "stone_soup-0.12" 02:07:00 Then build 02:08:56 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:22 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 02:20:43 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:11 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:11 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 02:21:11 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:37 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:37 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:24:11 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:39 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:34 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: Time to go to sleep before I do something stupid and die] 02:34:02 the install.txt doesn't mention any modules 02:34:07 what are they for? 02:34:10 Cryp71c, 02:36:58 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:37:59 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:41 myrmidette: if you're building on linux, you don't need the submodules, just install the packages listed in install.txt 02:39:05 ok 02:39:21 so the command is 02:39:22 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:39:30 git clone -b stone_soup-0.12 git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git 02:39:32 right? 02:40:41 sure 02:40:58 or you can just clone normally and then git checkout stone_soup-0.12 02:41:08 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:42:52 nothing changed weird 02:43:02 was anything supposed to change? 02:43:10 the files look mostly the same 02:44:47 master is still mostly the same as 0.12 ;) 02:45:11 I have to go now, sorry 03:07:13 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:07:33 -!- Prasch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:10:23 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:14:57 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:13 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 03:16:02 myrmidette: what does git describe says? 03:17:14 Cryp71c: I think seal spell will be needlessly complicated and often unnoticeable 03:17:33 why not use antagic inatead? 03:17:47 antimagic 03:20:48 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:53 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:23:36 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:27:39 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 03:34:19 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:46 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:03 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:37:15 -!- Wehk has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:10 -!- jeanjacques_ has 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07:03:04 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:16 -!- Wester has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:43 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:53 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:18:56 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 07:20:21 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:34 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:53 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:33 -!- ark__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:25:23 !tell Cryp71c I think seal spell will be needlessly complicated and often unnoticeable. Why not use anti-magic instead? 07:25:23 galehar: OK, I'll let cryp71c know. 07:26:24 -!- buki_ is now known as buki 07:26:37 -!- ark__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:22 -!- ark__ has quit [Client Quit] 07:31:09 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:12 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 07:34:38 -!- scummos_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:59 -!- Taco_Princess has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:06:56 -!- Taco_Princess has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:08:53 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:14 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:12:28 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:17:05 -!- drage_lanyon has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 08:20:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:21:41 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 08:32:49 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:08 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:34:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:35:42 -!- Zermako has quit [] 08:39:31 -!- Prasch has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:44:44 03galehar 07* 0.13-a0-450-g34cae13: Update travel speed when changing level. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=34cae138a520 08:46:56 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:14 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:00 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:09 galehar, I saw your message last night regarding runed hands...I thought about antimagic but I'm trying to stay away from existing / overlapping functionality (especially things that are typically god-specific, like a common source of antimagic). Surprisingly the seal functionality isn't too complicated, my main concern is certain monsters having "spell-like" spells that are implemented as abilities (or vice versa) which 09:00:10 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:00:10 might accidentally get caught in a seal. 09:00:12 !messages 09:00:13 (1/1) galehar said (1h 34m 50s ago): I think seal spell will be needlessly complicated and often unnoticeable. Why not use anti-magic instead? 09:01:20 galehar, but those concerns regarding abilities vs spells is hard to judge, I figured I'd implement it and test it to see how it felt (in terms of noticibility, strength/usefulness, and to notice exceptions). 09:01:57 galehar, we briefly discussed antimagic, and in additon to my concerns, there were also concerns with unavoidable antimagic being too much of a drawback (because of the mp reduction). 09:02:18 it wouldn't have to give an MP reduction... 09:07:30 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:07:57 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:56 elliptic, the spell sealing, I had imagined, could be made available (indeed, this is how I'm coding the structure of it) for monsters as well..I thought it might open up a new avenue of interesting monsters. 09:09:31 elliptic, the mp reduction thing could be worked around, I was trying to avoid it mostly because its so tightly correlated to trog. 09:09:38 can i just check what it actually does: stops a particular spell working, right? 09:10:02 well, I haven't looked at how the spell sealing works or anything... I was just saying that I don't understand why MP reduction from antimagic weapons is relevant at all here 09:10:17 Cryp71c: it isn't really that tightly correlated to trog, antimagic weapons do generate normally too 09:10:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:10:46 mumra, yes, depending on feedback it could or could not waste a turn (eg, pick a new spell/new action or give a failure message for "The orc wizard waves his hands, but was stopped..." 09:10:54 and giving a weaker form of antimagic to some Ds doesn't seem like it would step on trog's toes... it isn't like it would be being given to a different god 09:11:14 Cryp71c: from the player's perspective, that sounds identical to antimagic 09:11:25 on some turns, a spellcaster wastes a turn 09:11:58 elliptic, the antimagic certainly is reasonable enough, I imagined there would be less resistance to new, interesting mechanics rather than rehashes of existing mechanics. 09:12:34 well, I'm not really sure this is sufficiently different from antimagic to count as a new, interesting mechanic :) 09:13:00 ??antimagic 09:13:00 antimagic[1/3]: A weapon brand added in 0.8. Dealing damage with it makes monsters sometimes lose a turn when they try to cast spells. Wielding it reduces max mp by around 2/3, getting hit by it depletes mp. Works on everything that has non-divine spells, including demons, orbs of fire, electric golems, etc. 09:13:18 ??antimagic[2] 09:13:18 antimagic[2/3]: good 09:16:34 elliptic, I had forgotten that antimagic can cause turn loss, so there is definitely similarity there...the sealing would result in a reduced arsenal for spellcasters. I had hoped its functionality might open up tactical options for spellcasters, for example, to open up combat with melee against other spellcasters, rather than racing to blast them as quickly as possible. 09:18:19 Well, in any case this is all in a branch, so if it turns out to work poorly I can revert them or cherry-pick around them if ever it merges. 09:19:55 -!- Porost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:09 monster spellcasters don't generally have many spells is the main problem 09:20:11 so doing it based on slots seems kind of weird 09:20:55 elliott, how do you mean? It always seemed to me that monster spellcasters have quite a few spells (somewhere around 5) 09:21:02 So, "a few" rather 09:21:32 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:28 well, often a few of those are things you wouldn't particularly care that much about getting disabled from a tactical perspective 09:22:34 especially weird things like escape slot stuff 09:22:34 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:30:52 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:39:54 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 09:42:31 -!- scummos_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:44:37 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:44:59 elliott, well, we can have it so that it seals only specific slots...is there a pattern? 09:47:21 There's a general pattern to the slot assignments, but it's not 100% consistent. 09:49:52 -!- broquain1 is now known as broquaint 09:53:35 -!- rossi has quit [Client Quit] 09:54:03 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:28 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:59:56 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:02:37 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:04:07 if the monster didn't lose a turn and chose another spell instead, it would probably be completely unnoticeable 10:04:21 if it does waste a turn, it would be just like a weaker antimagic 10:04:56 i think it's better to reuse existing mechanism (maybe with a different parameter), rather than implement a similar but slightly different one 10:06:06 I think that the lair sub-branches might be a bit *too* nasty now. 10:06:06 !lg . place=swamp s=xl v<0.10 10:06:07 6 games for DrPraetor (place=swamp v<0.10): 3x 15, 2x 16, 14 10:07:21 too nasty since what? 10:08:20 -!- Xenobreeder|2 is now known as Xenobreeder 10:12:43 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:12 -!- kober has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0/20130326150557]] 10:18:43 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:54 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:19:01 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:32 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:10 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:52 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:22:03 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:26:00 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:32:52 -!- santiago_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:33 -!- Zauren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:39 -!- Sealero is now known as Sealer 10:34:50 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:07 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:42:45 BountyHunterSAx (L16 MuWz) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 403 failed. (Snake:1) 10:43:11 BountyHunterSAx (L16 MuWz) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 403 failed. (Snake:1) 10:46:28 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:38 !lg . place=swamp s=xl v>0.09 10:46:38 !lg . place=swamp s=xl v>0.9 10:46:40 4 games for DrPraetor (place=swamp v>0.09): 2x 18, 16, 15 10:46:40 4 games for DrPraetor (place=swamp v>0.9): 2x 18, 16, 15 10:46:44 galehar, at face value I guess it seems pretty similar, but for the mutation I thought that locking out player_mutation_level(RUNED_HANDS) spells would allow it to have a pretty significant impact on playstyle and functionality. The "seals" are also duration based, so once sealed, spells remain sealed for a specific period. 10:47:04 galehar, still seems too similar to antimagic? (I thought it would end up as a cousin, but distinct on its own) 10:47:51 More importantly, perhaps, is that we'd be able to have monsters which leave MP intact, but seal off player spells instead. 10:48:08 (curable via !magic ?) 10:48:30 -!- pantaril has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:38 It's been an accumulation of things. Constrict obviously makes naga significantly more lethal; the new swamp is more lethal than the old swamp was assuming you knew how to grind it. 10:48:38 And the things in spider are just nasty. 10:53:33 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:38 Oops. 10:54:38 See? Nasty. 10:54:38 Well, fuck, I liked that one. 10:57:45 Should the Lair sub branches be moved to Lair end? 10:58:00 To indicate their new status as actually rather more lethal? 10:58:08 -!- santiago_ has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:27 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:39 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:49 moving them a little deeper isn't a bad idea, though really their lethality hasn't increased particularly relative to other parts of the game 11:09:42 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:10:16 inter-level travel already takes long enough :( 11:18:28 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:25:52 -!- syraine has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:26:18 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:32 Cryp71c: monsters (or traps?) that seal off player spells temporarily could be quite an interesting idea on its own; and it's an effect that's immediately very noticable to the player. but the player version and monster version shouldn't be considered dependant on each other 11:37:17 and from the player's point of view, it's hard to use an effect tactically if it's hard to understand or predict exactly what it's going to do 11:38:33 DrPraetor: i'm not sure if the stats you're generating really mean anything much ... 11:38:42 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:12 to demonstrate anything concrete you'd need to take a sample over lots of players games 11:39:38 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:39:45 because whilst certain monster mechanics might have added danger, lots of other dangers have been removed, and there have been lots of player mechanic changes that ameliorate the new nasties 11:40:05 e.g. : players can also have constriction now ... 11:41:05 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20121208085021]] 11:41:27 Cryp71c: i just thought -- another candidate for sealing player spells is the curse reform discussion. like specific spell slots getting cursed ... 11:44:29 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:32 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:44:42 I'm dying at marginally higher level in swamp now; but mostly I was just curious. 11:45:13 !lg . place=snake s=xl v>0.9 11:45:14 5 games for DrPraetor (place=snake v>0.9): 2x 17, 18, 14, 13 11:45:21 !lg . place=snake s=xl v<0.10 11:45:22 16 games for DrPraetor (place=snake v<0.10): 6x 14, 3x 16, 2x 13, 2x 17, 2x 15, 12 11:45:23 DrPraetor: yeah, _you_ are dying at marginally higher level but how do we know you didn't just get rusty? or just haven't let learnt how to deal with these new threats? 11:45:56 mumra: That's certainly true for spider. I would've lived if I'd been wearing clarity and seeI the whole time (like I should've.) 11:46:14 What's the command to average something over the percent of all users with lg? 11:46:21 this could also indicate that you are just generally better at getting to higher levels so you're dying later, maybe getting a little less attentive because you're more confident 11:46:31 !lg * !boring x=avg(xl) 11:46:33 1776308 games for * (!boring): avg(xl)=4.73 11:46:42 Grunt, there's something more which does % 11:46:46 Cryp71c: exactly, i'd want to see stats over the whole playerbase before i read anything into this 11:46:47 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:49 !lg * !boring / won 11:46:51 11732/1776308 games for * (!boring): N=11732/1776308 (0.66%) 11:46:53 one player's stats aren't really a good indication of anything... 11:46:54 Grunt, thanks 11:47:11 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:16 !lg * snake cv>0.9 x=avg(xl) 11:47:17 2073 games for * (snake cv>0.9): avg(xl)=15.89 11:47:19 !lg * snake cv<=0.9 x=avg(xl) 11:47:20 3359 games for * (snake cv<=0.9): avg(xl)=14.85 11:47:25 !lg * place=snake / recent 11:47:25 865/5432 games for * (place=snake): N=865/5432 (15.92%) 11:47:28 All true. I splatted on shoals really fast, first couple times I tried it. None-the-less, I think Swamp/Snake/Spider/Shoals are significantly more lethal now. 11:48:19 !@lg * place=snake cv>0.9 x=avg(xl) / !won 11:48:27 !lg * place=snake cv>0.9 x=avg(xl) / !won 11:48:28 2073/2073 games for * (place=snake cv>0.9): avg(xl)=15.89/15.89 (100.00%) 11:48:37 !lg * place=snake cv<0.9 x=avg(xl) / !won 11:48:37 3019/3019 games for * (place=snake cv<0.9): avg(xl)=14.82/14.82 (100.00%) 11:48:42 ...hrm... 11:48:46 Somehow I've messed that up 11:48:55 !lg * place=snake cv>0.9 / !won 11:48:55 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:48:55 2073/2073 games for * (place=snake cv>0.9): N=2073/2073 (100.00%) 11:49:09 Is there a way to say "not place=snake" ? 11:49:19 !lg * place=snake cv>0.9 / place<>snake 11:49:20 0/2073 games for * (place=snake cv>0.9): N=0/2073 (0.00%) 11:49:29 lol 11:49:41 !lg * place=snake cv>0.9 / place!=snake 11:49:41 0/2073 games for * (place=snake cv>0.9): N=0/2073 (0.00%) 11:49:46 Yeah I'm giving up 11:49:47 place!=snake 11:49:51 I really need to read that lg manual 11:50:03 !lg * cv>0.9 / place!=snake 11:50:03 !lg * milestone=snake x=avg(xl) 11:50:06 849602/851675 games for * (cv>0.9): N=849602/851675 (99.76%) 11:50:06 Unknown field: milestone 11:50:22 so on average players are dying 1 level higher in snake? i don't know if this is a meaningful enough variation to tell us anything 11:50:22 Grunt, thanks, that makes a bit more sense, clearly what I was intending 11:50:23 How do you restrict it to people who have the rune? 11:50:30 also: i think we're looking at completely the wrong statistic 11:50:40 DrPraetor, can't do that..that's a milestone, doesn't interact with lg, I don't believe. 11:50:52 Grunt was on the right track 11:50:56 !lg * cv>0.9 / place!= snake 11:50:57 2073/851675 games for * (cv>0.9): N=2073/851675 (0.24%) 11:51:00 !lg * cv<0.9 / place!= snake 11:51:01 3019/1194834 games for * (cv<0.9): N=3019/1194834 (0.25%) 11:51:09 I suppose that we want (players with snake rune) / (players who die in snake). 11:51:36 !lm * cv>0.9 rune=serpentine 11:51:36 6994. [2013-04-25 15:34:18] ldf the Ninja (L27 SpEn) found a serpentine rune of Zot on turn 105810. (Snake:5) 11:51:38 !lm * cv<=0.9 rune=serpentine 11:51:39 12467. [2013-04-07 01:17:08] DavionFuxa the Slayer (L21 MDSt) found a serpentine rune of Zot on turn 104220. (Snake:5) 11:52:19 !lg . cv<0.9 rune=serpentine/place=snake 11:52:20 Unknown field: rune 11:52:30 You can't query by milestones in lg 11:52:38 afaik, anyways. 11:52:44 78.8% for <=0.9; 77.1% for >0.9. 11:52:46 Let's assume that snake is the first rune you get. 11:53:11 That's a fairly small difference, true. 11:53:22 DrPraetor, so, a slight decrease in the survivability of Snake, presuming you got the rune in the first place. 11:53:33 I'm not sure this is still accurate towards your point 11:53:36 s/de/in/ 11:53:54 Let me be clear: that's the *success rate*. 11:54:09 Oh, right, it is a slight decrease. ... 11:54:16 * Grunt must not be awake yet. 11:54:18 :) 11:55:08 A more telling statistic might be, between <0.9 and >0.9 the percentage of deaths in snake over the number of enter snake milestones. 11:55:21 Perhaps? 11:55:25 !lm * cv>0.9 br.enter=snake 11:55:26 11072. [2013-04-25 16:42:42] zarath the Spry (L18 HuIE) entered the Snake Pit on turn 45313. (Lair:6) 11:55:28 !lm * cv<=0.9 br.enter=snake 11:55:29 20300. [2013-04-06 19:17:46] DavionFuxa the Slayer (L19 MDSt) entered the Snake Pit on turn 74505. (Lair:4) 11:55:43 It also may not address shifts in the total pool of players. Nor is an increase in lethality a bad thing - Snake:1-4 used to be pretty boring, actually. But between constrict, the mosquito buff, and so forth - the lair sub-branches are certainly more STRESSFUL than they used to be. 11:55:47 16.5% and 18.7% respectively. 11:56:00 Er, for <= 0.9 and > 0.9. 11:56:38 And people are doing it at higher level, which ought to be making it less lethal, so I think that supports my thesis pretty well. 11:56:38 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:13 Shit, I gotta head into the lab. Ciao! 11:57:20 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:57:40 -!- johnny0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:04 -!- sepik121 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:06:18 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-450-g34cae13 (34) 12:06:34 Yeah, its a notable difference, perhaps worth changing the depth that branches appear at, but not enough to change much else. 12:06:41 s/notable/noticable, but minor 12:08:11 It's not a concern anyone else has brought up. 12:09:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:10:02 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:42 since it's common knowledge that the branches are unsafe to enter when you first see them anyway, it doesn't really make much different what level they appear on ... 12:11:05 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:11 even when you've cleared Lair:8 you probably still don't want to be going into sub-branches 12:11:29 I've seen some player clear the first level of branches early. 12:11:35 I think that used to be more common than it is now. 12:12:26 maybe monster spawns can be adjusted a bit now it's easier to do so: 12:12:44 make branch:1 slightly easier than currently, and slightly ramp up the difficulty towards branch:$ 12:14:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:33 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:58 I don't see a strong need to do that specifically, but I do think we could at least look at the branch spawns now that we have the means to do so. 12:16:24 I remember hearing a comment the other day that there aren't enough higher level enemies in, say, mid-Shoals compared to the other branches, for example. 12:17:03 (Not that I necessarily agree with that - I haven't really had time to consider it - just passing the comment along.) 12:19:14 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:19:15 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:19:40 Grunt, used to be that you would clear most all pieces of all branches, except the last, long long ago. 12:19:48 Not everygame, but it was pretty common to see. 12:20:29 -!- Egglet has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:21:10 It still lives on in Vaults tradition, at least. 12:22:00 Yeah, but all the branch ends used to be like that. 12:22:16 Or perhaps people just play more recklessly now 12:22:33 We do have a larger player base these days :) 12:22:41 With more inexperienced players! 12:27:11 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-451-ga259dab: Show (unknown) in shopping list and stash tracker 10(11 minutes ago, 3 files, 23+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a259dab223f9 12:30:36 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 12:35:17 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:30 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:36:50 mumra: i'm sure i remember a bunch of discussion about that jory bug but i guess it happened in irc and never got added to the mantis issue :/ 12:37:24 MarvinPA: hang on ... which jory bug? 12:37:38 jory being generated twice 12:38:25 ah i thought your comment was on it from like just now, it was yesterday :P 12:38:34 was from* 12:38:56 MarvinPA: oh that bug. yeah napkin changed the category so it appeared at the top of the list. i commented on it before i saw the original date too :P 12:41:45 apparently it's something to do with KMONS fallbacks not doing what they're supposed to do? 12:42:31 according to the documentation "2 = vampire knight / Jory, vampire knight" should fall back to always placing that second vampire knight if jory has generated already 12:43:12 for some reason due_tower_of_silence has a veto in case Jory was already placed, instead of using a fallback like that 12:43:53 "Some reason" is that the map was designed around / at the same time as Jory; he was only added to the crypt ending later. 12:44:04 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:17 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:19 also, it seems due_tower_of_silence was missed in the D:27 changes, it needs an optional zot entrance i think 12:44:28 Huh? 12:44:32 It can't place on D:27 right now. 12:44:43 exactly 12:44:47 but it has DEPTH: D:19-27 12:45:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:27 It's not really intended to be a Zot entry... 12:45:54 It's also thematically extremely different from the other Zot entries. 12:46:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:46:51 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:47:41 ok, i thought all D:27 orient vaults got converted; anyway it doesn't matter 12:47:50 but that veto seems like a bad way of handling the Jory situation 12:48:46 I don't see why; the veto in that context makes perfect sense to me. 12:48:59 the veto is the one that works, i thought 12:49:01 "This map is designed around Jory; if Jory already exists somewhere, don't place this map." 12:49:05 it's the crypt vault that generates him twice 12:49:24 MarvinPA, specifically, if due_tower_of_silence gets generated first, and then due_elkab gets generated later. 12:49:32 right 12:52:24 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:53:31 -!- tswett_ is now known as tswett 12:54:42 For what it's worth, I can't seem to get that to happen at all on my own. 12:55:47 %git ee5c890 12:55:48 03dpeg * 0.12-a0-835-gee5c890: Provide fallback for absent Jory. (kilobyte) 10(6 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ee5c890eeacb 12:55:53 I think this is a non-issue these days. 12:57:25 MarvinPA, did I ever ask you personally for feedback on runed-hands spell sealing 12:57:26 ? 12:58:57 i don't think so, i'm inclined to agree with elliptic/galehar that it might function better just using the same effect as antimagic does 12:59:15 i'm not sure that sealing a specific monster spell would be very noticeable or significantly different from that 12:59:20 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:59:44 although it would be a neat effect to have for monsters to use on players 13:00:20 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:53 Grunt: i just spent a while trying to reproduce and couldn't either 13:02:03 Grunt: the reason why the veto is bad is because (i think) the dungeon builder will keep trying to regenerate the level a given number of times but it'll veto every time 13:02:30 Grunt: i think there might be a more direct way; doesn't the uniq_jory tag already veto it? 13:02:43 after a veto it will use another map 13:02:43 kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:03:10 kilobyte: i could be wrong but i think it keeps trying to use the same map a few times hoping that it'll generate in a way that doesn't veto 13:03:33 at least it was my understanding that's what the veto hook did 13:05:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:08:49 kilobyte: apologies, i was mixing veto/validate together :P 13:09:46 Grunt: yeah, veto is all correct, i will shut up now! 13:22:30 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:23:21 Alright, well working on the presumption that Runed_hands would work like antimagic instead of sealing spells, I had planned for the "sealing spells" effect to channel into unbranded weapons that you wielded (so the effect wasn't lost if you didn't chose to fight UC, or more importantly..if you chose a 2H weapon and had no access to off-hand strikes). 13:23:48 -!- MiBe has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:27:53 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:45 -!- ZRN_ has quit 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17:27:32 -!- omniguy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:29:34 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:35:39 03galehar 07* 0.13-a0-452-g642d18e: Remove splint mail and buff chain mail to 8 base AC. 10(47 minutes ago, 15 files, 19+ 35-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=642d18e0e13e 17:35:39 03galehar 07* 0.13-a0-453-ga04a6eb: New formula for the effect of strength on AEVP. 10(22 minutes ago, 5 files, 40+ 56-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a04a6eba42c9 17:36:21 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:40:56 !tell elliptic can you check the dodge bonus? I'm not sure I did it properly 17:40:56 galehar: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 17:42:08 -!- lambskin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:42:45 -!- ophanim_school has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:42:51 galehar: hm, does putting the div_rand_round in there mean that sometimes the displayed EV value will change without the player doing anything? 17:42:51 elliptic: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:43:17 scale is something large when this is called, right? like 100 or something? 17:43:36 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:38 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:43:49 oh, scale is set in the function 17:44:32 -!- oberstein has quit [Quit: uhhh] 17:44:32 -!- stabwound has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 17:44:39 galehar: probably the div_rand_round should be regular division for this reason 17:45:02 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:32 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:25 galehar: also, in player::adjusted_body_armour_penalty, probably the division by 5(str + 3) should happen after multiplying by the next two factors, to make rounding less weird 17:48:39 galehar: aside from that looks good on a quick glance, will compile and test things out in-game a bit too later today :) 17:51:23 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:52:35 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:54:31 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:43 -!- bza has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55:09 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:58:54 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:08 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:38 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:07:00 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:20:20 -!- GRIM-butts has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:21:04 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 18:21:19 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:25:02 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:36 I like the over thirty lines of vaults defining splint mail that weren't updated when splint mail was removed 18:28:00 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 18:30:45 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:33:25 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 18:34:06 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:37:39 wooo! 18:37:44 -!- alefury|2 is now known as alefury 18:37:56 no more splint mail! 18:37:59 good night 18:38:28 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:39:14 crawl not compiling at start, wooo 18:39:42 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 18:47:13 -!- magicpoints has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:10 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:57 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:02:00 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:02:57 -!- foonesh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:04:02 -!- olivil has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:04:22 -!- _dd has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:11:41 -!- olivil has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:36 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:38 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:24 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:25:56 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:32:21 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 19:37:21 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:30 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:56 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 19:45:18 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:50:18 -!- TheOverlord has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:50 -!- ryansee_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:55:43 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:19 !tell galehar Remember to make sure the game starts after you make major changes, so that everyone else doesn't need to go through and update vaults :) 19:56:19 Grunt: OK, I'll let galehar know. 19:59:26 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:12 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-454-g5283847: Remove splint mail from vault definitions so game starts again. 10(8 minutes ago, 10 files, 42+ 57-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5283847e2adc 20:04:51 -!- doome has quit [] 20:12:26 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 20:12:44 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:14:47 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:17:00 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:54 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:22:07 -!- gowby has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:17 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:28 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:33:11 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:50:39 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:31 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:02:52 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-455-gc135c4e: Fix an occasional hiccup with the previous splint mail vault fix. 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c135c4ebb3ff 21:02:52 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-456-g6b2219c: Clean up the new portal announcements. 10(8 minutes ago, 7 files, 95+ 69-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b2219cf93f0 21:07:58 No more splint mail? Does this mean armor in general will be rarer, or does it mean we'll see more types of armor we care about? 21:08:08 (Not counting armor on monsters) 21:09:12 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:12:08 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:16:14 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:24:56 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:12 I'd guess that splint mail generation was replaced with chain mail generation, since they were really merged 21:26:26 Correct, as far as I can tell. 21:27:09 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:33:33 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:28 So we are going to see even more chain mails? 21:44:48 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:11 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:56:17 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:33 Grunt: any particular reason why you didn't also remove splint mail item descriptions, or should I go and do that? 21:58:15 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:01:04 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:12 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:53 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:06:07 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 22:07:36 elliptic: because it slipped my mind? 22:07:39 Go ahead and to that. 22:07:51 okay 22:07:54 -!- imantor has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:11:35 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: Saber] 22:15:03 -!- gowby has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:15:25 ophanim (L25 TrAr) (Abyss:1) 22:15:49 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:08 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 22:16:29 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:00 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:18:06 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 22:18:28 -!- ckyle has quit [Client Quit] 22:19:34 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:20:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:25:45 -!- Ursa2 has quit [] 22:27:25 ugh, this rescaling of PARM_EVASION caused a ton of problems 22:27:55 I've been going through and trying to fix stuff, but there's some stuff that is annoying to fix because now shields and body armour use a different scale 22:28:01 Ugh. 22:32:33 I guess maybe there's only one place where this is an issue 22:36:07 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:35 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:37:24 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:37:46 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 22:40:35 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:26 -!- ZRN_ is now known as ZRN 22:54:04 03infiniplex 07* 0.13-a0-457-g2bf6e51: Added dgn_connect_adjacent_rooms LUA function 10(30 hours ago, 4 files, 195+ 32-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2bf6e517d8fc 22:54:04 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-458-g1b88556: Bail connect-up when no valid groups found 10(32 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1b88556805ce 22:54:04 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-459-g265e739: A city layout with nice detail, layout_stronghold 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 215+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=265e7390b222 22:54:04 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-460-gaf318481: Tweak some weights in layout_grids 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=af318481e033 22:54:04 03elliptic 07* 0.13-a0-461-g51f3038: Remove splint mail item descriptions. 10(12 minutes ago, 5 files, 0+ 34-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=51f303863fd5 22:54:04 03elliptic 07* 0.13-a0-462-gf24eba4: Fix various breakages caused by body armour EVP rescaling. 10(10 minutes ago, 6 files, 16+ 15-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f24eba4eaa46 22:54:04 03elliptic 07* 0.13-a0-463-gd58ed0a: Fix rounding details in new formulas. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d58ed0aed855 22:54:37 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 22:55:04 not certain I caught all the issues, but hopefully 22:56:10 We'll know starting in an hour or so... 22:59:23 output from layout_stronghold - http://pbrd.co/14UdxhY 23:00:49 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:01:02 mumra: very nice :) 23:01:36 thanks :) i'm tempted to give it a much higher weight in dis ... 23:04:27 mumra: nice 23:08:20 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 23:09:34 it still needs some tweaks. like, less doors. and maybe i should mess with stair placement a little sometimes ... 23:12:25 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:12:29 -!- blackcustard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:09 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:11 -!- Herrzakath has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:47:36 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:48:13 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:55:41 -!- eb has quit [] 23:59:36 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]