00:00:33 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-b1-113-g78a4599 00:00:52 somehow looking at the apts I can see why people would prefer MD to HO 00:01:17 except now that HO has +3 Axes.... 00:01:28 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-398-g47f71f5 (34) 00:02:34 MD did have an oddly high fire apt 00:02:43 because smithing or something 00:02:48 Like, better than anyone but red draconians 00:03:04 But they weren't exactly so well positioned to make great use of it in general 00:03:07 the Earth apt sounds good for stacking Stoneskin with heavy armour except I bet almost nobody does that 00:03:25 Were you around back when MD and HO had less MR than everyone else? 00:04:02 no, and that sounds unforgivably bad 00:04:08 It was kind of terrible, yes 00:04:11 as in "I'd rather play anything else" 00:04:18 They had a base multiplier of 2 (the default is 3) 00:04:19 I've seen reference to that though 00:04:29 I think learndb even still has a few that didn't get removedmaybe 00:04:33 Which basically translated as 'hexes work on you way way too often' :P 00:05:27 hexes like 0xb19b00b5? 00:05:35 Those too 00:05:40 ring of protection from hex edits 00:06:49 but yes, MD looks a little better than Mi for the heavy armour build a lot of people like, and then it's a lot worse than HO at casting spells but I bet the MD fans don't like those 00:07:02 -!- gluop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:47 I think Mi is better than MD at the spell-less build probably, because of horns and retaliation 00:08:11 Also, it probably gets better defenses than MD anyway 00:08:15 and the better dodging apt 00:08:18 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:08:20 And more dex 00:08:23 (I think) 00:08:29 the better dodging apt is good overall yes 00:08:29 -!- dcssrubot82 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:39 Mi Dex is pretty terrible 00:08:49 ??stat gain[2] 00:08:49 stat gain[2/2]: Ce sd/4 | DD si/4 | DE i/4 | Dg sid/2 | Dr sid/4 | Ds sid/4 | Fe id/5 | Gh s/5 | Ha d/5 | HE id/3 | HO s/5 | Hu sid/4 | Ko sd/5 | Mf sid/5 | Mi sd/4 | Mu none | Na sid/4 | Og s/3 | Op sid/5 | SE id/4 | Sp id/5 | Te sid/4 | Tr s/3 | Vp none 00:08:58 ??starting stats[2] 00:08:58 starting stats[2/3]: Ce 10,7,4 | DD 11,8,8 | DE 5,12,10 | Dg 11,12,11 | Dr 10,8,6 | Ds 8,9,8 | Fe 4,9,11 | Gh 11,3,4 | Ha 5,8,11 | HE 7,11,10 | HO 11,5,6 | Hu 8,8,8 | Ko 7,6,10 | Mf 8,7,9 | Mi 12,5,5 | Mu 11,7,7 | Na 10,8,6 | Og 12,7,5 | Op 7,10,7 | SE 8,9,9 | Sp 4,9,11 | Te 8,8,9 | Tr 15,4,5 | Vp 7,10,9 00:08:58 but that can be fixed in-game by leveling yes 00:09:15 Well, I think MD was still worse? At least in terms of growth 00:09:17 it's only a little worse than human dex 00:09:22 on average 00:09:39 XL27 it probably ends up being about the same as human dex 00:09:51 SwissStopwatch: Oh, to make matters worse, the period they had low MR was also the same period where heavy armour was awful 00:09:57 hahahahaha 00:10:03 So fun all around 00:10:17 anyway I'll cop to never having gotten a good sense of how helpful Mi horns/retal were when playing one 00:10:41 since it's kind of hard to separate that from how hard your weapon is killing things 00:10:54 Except when stuff you haven't attacked randomly dies while you're eating 00:10:55 But yes 00:11:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:11:48 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:13:45 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 00:13:53 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:19:56 -!- infiniplex has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:20:38 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:32 -!- 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HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 05:19:56 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:09 -!- dcssrubot925 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:56 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:42:12 -!- Scott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:39 -!- Scott_ is now known as Guest31026 05:43:39 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:45:40 -!- Staren has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:45:40 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:53:36 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:53:49 -!- dcssrubot579 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:55:01 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:05:02 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:05:36 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:07:57 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:17:00 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:20:37 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:22:36 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:22:41 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:10 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:24:31 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:24:31 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:24:47 -!- s951 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:57 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:08 Morning 06:37:43 hi 06:47:17 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:51:48 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:52:33 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:59:31 Have pies been removed from trunk? 07:03:01 yep 07:03:32 They're still on the known items menu. Not sure if that's been submitted to mantis. 07:05:34 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:07:12 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:07:12 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:12 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:10:47 s951: i *think* that got fixed, which specific version are you playing? 07:10:57 most recent commit 07:10:59 I built it this morning 07:11:11 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:11:29 are they on known items rather than unknown items, or both? 07:11:39 and is this a save from before you updated? 07:13:00 Known items. I've been playing this character over the course of about a week, I think. 07:13:20 <|amethyst> it's not fixed 07:13:30 just started a new character, pies still show up. 07:13:30 <|amethyst> they're still listed for me in a brand-new game 07:14:04 post on mantis definitely 07:16:17 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Butts] 07:18:36 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:22:34 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:37 -!- dcssrubot177 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:57 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:26 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:28:04 -!- Cryp71c_ is now known as Cryp71c 07:29:29 did the game just place a wall on top of my bazzar entry vault? 07:29:37 http://oi45.tinypic.com/2ngtput.jpg 07:32:55 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:37:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:43:52 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:45:44 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:26 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:55:54 well, pies haven't been removed from trunk. They just don't generate anymore. 07:56:08 but they still exist so that existing jesters can finish their game 07:56:36 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:56:56 we could probably remove them, existing jesters can survive without them 07:59:05 -!- rkd2 has quit [Client Quit] 08:00:27 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:00:31 -!- rkd has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:01:33 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:38 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:01:57 ah, I see 08:02:36 -!- neuwiz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:05:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:06:12 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:11:32 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:12:58 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:58 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:25 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:12 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:36 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:29 rast: can you be more specific ... are you saying that got blocked off *after* you mapped? 08:15:29 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:15:35 !messages 08:15:35 (1/1) Nivim said (25m 5s ago): Congratulations on whatever you did to keep Vaults maps from being completely boring. 08:17:06 mumra: i mapped it as soon as i got the message 08:17:11 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:22 and it was already blocked off? 08:17:23 and it LOOKS like level creation screwed up my portal entry vault 08:17:25 right 08:17:51 i went all around and didnt find any secret doors 08:17:56 that is all stone btw, not rock 08:18:13 oh and its .11 so if already fixed, nm 08:18:22 -!- kober has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0/20130326150557]] 08:21:19 oh 08:21:30 well V layouts are completely different now anyway 08:21:50 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:22:06 i'm not saying this couldn't still happen ; bazaar entries aren't tagged transparent and this kind of vault placement error does seem to happen sometimes 08:22:41 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:01 there are some mantis tickets already about this kind of bug 08:24:25 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:53 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:23 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:53 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:57 ??git 08:25:58 git[1/2]: Readonly: git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git Read/Write: git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl.git Web interface: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git or http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 08:26:23 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:19 -!- keksz has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:27 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 08:33:03 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:43:54 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:47:09 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:58 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:42 -!- dcssrubot78 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:12 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 08:56:36 -!- Zermako has quit [] 08:57:27 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:58:41 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:00:08 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:06:23 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:18:25 is anyone ever going to fix insane ood skeletons and zombies 09:18:48 like a d:4 wyvern skeleton for example 09:25:38 jeanjacques (L20 DEAr) ASSERT(w_idx != NON_ITEM) in 'mon-stuff.cc' at line 1727 failed. (Vaults:4) 09:26:54 jeanjacques (L20 DEAr) ASSERT(w_idx != NON_ITEM) in 'mon-stuff.cc' at line 1727 failed. (Vaults:4) 09:27:00 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:27:11 !lm . crash -log 09:27:12 19. jeanjacques, XL20 DEAr, T:38699 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/jeanjacques/crash-jeanjacques-20130418-142655.txt 09:33:00 faze: i don't see a problem with that 09:33:13 undead are pretty easy to deal with 09:33:29 well it was not an intentional change afaik 09:33:40 zombie/skeleton generation changed a vast amount in mon-pick, I don't know why 09:33:44 it is very different now 09:33:53 right 09:34:19 some numeric calculation mistake I assume 09:34:30 it doesn't bother me all that much since i can usually deal with them, but a wyvern skeleton is almost certain death for some players 09:35:00 i think this same change also made crypt have like a billion more xp 09:35:17 well, that part i don't mind so much :P 09:35:33 well independently of mon-pick, a lot of undead code was sorted out 09:35:42 and this has all resulted in different distributions of things 09:35:58 ok, i was just making sure this was the intended change 09:36:01 faze: it's only almost certain death if they try to fight it ... 09:36:30 yes, i usually have a stockpile of ?tele and ?blink on d:3 09:36:33 er, d:4 09:36:56 also i quite often have characters hit XL:6 or XL:7 by D:4 and would certainly have a good chance of being able to deal with a wyvern skele 09:37:11 and would then therefore be XL:8 09:37:53 faze: ?tele and ?blink aren't the only ways to escape from a monster 09:38:00 especially if you start running away when it' 09:38:04 when it's on the edge of LOS 09:38:14 rather than trying to melee it *then* running away when you realise you're dying 09:41:27 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:41:44 -!- santiago has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:42:12 wyvern skeleton (15z) | Spd: 13 | HD: 5 | HP: 25-44 | AC/EV: 0/3 | Dam: 16 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(6), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 136 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 09:42:12 %??wyvern skeleton 09:42:19 i feel like this discussion is lacking a statement that they are speed 13 09:42:42 anyway the change's merits are one thing, its unintentionality another (if skelezombie distribution should be buffed it should not be via a bug!) 09:43:10 i think kilobyte is still intending to adjust things somewhat 09:45:08 i am also genuinely wondering if anything has gone (slightly) wrong with ood spawns in general. normally i'd be the first to cry "clustering illusion" but when there has genuinely been a big change to spawning and depth code it can't hurt to consider it. 09:45:19 i say this because i had a ludicrously ood skeleton warrior 09:45:24 mumra: me too 09:45:35 * elliott shudders at the misuse of "skeleton" 09:45:37 a 3 pack of them on d:6 or d:7 09:45:38 and there have been an above average number of ood reports in tavern etc. 09:45:49 s/skeleton/skeletal lol 09:46:00 i have noticed this and sort of mentioned it, but no one has paid any mind to me :P 09:46:22 these reports have so often and 99.999% of the time it is just clustering illusion 09:46:37 i had a pack of vampire mosquitos on d:8 today 09:46:57 that is something i have never seen before 09:47:34 but there was that one occasion several years ago when there was a genuine bug. 09:47:56 * geekosaur does seem to have been seeing ood zombies a bit more of late 09:48:00 and yeah, when mon-pick has been completely rewritten there is definitely a case for double-checking things 09:48:10 indeed 09:48:30 i haven't brought it up here at all since i assumed it was the clustering illusion and didn't want to look silly 09:50:15 -!- foonesh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:50:59 i think there is something about how undead spawns are chosen based on (depth+x) 09:51:07 so for zombies/skeletons it's less surprising 09:51:25 but skeletal warriors and other non-zombie non-skeleton undead should probably ignore that 09:52:37 where are monster spawn depths and such defined now? 09:53:14 mon-pick-data.h 09:53:24 thanks 09:53:49 i think when i got my skeletal warrior it was like *just on the edge* of valid ood spawns 09:53:56 but i hadn't exactly spent a long time on that level 09:56:23 are the first two numbers in the mon-pick-data structs min and max depth? 09:56:36 excluding ood spawns 09:57:26 -!- santiago has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:58:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:34 Yes. 09:59:42 hm 09:59:52 Min, max, weight, weight distribution, monster. 10:02:33 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:03:47 -!- keksz has quit [Quit: f00d] 10:04:04 has anyone generated any stats of what monsters spawn on what depths, both before and after the mon-pick/zombie changes? 10:04:33 galehar, still here? 10:07:28 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:07:38 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:07:43 -!- morik__ is now known as morik 10:15:42 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:16:52 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:28 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:18:13 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 10:20:37 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:22:53 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:23:00 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:24:48 -!- dcssrubot54 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:10 -!- ystael has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:27:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:32:44 -!- Stendarr has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:58 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:42:44 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:35 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:57 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:56 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 11:02:26 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:02:41 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:46 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20121208085021]] 11:03:45 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:05:55 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:06:19 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:06:19 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:06:50 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:08:19 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 11:09:40 -!- Zifmia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:11 -!- dcssrubot234 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:37 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:30:42 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:34:24 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:00 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 11:40:29 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:04 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:58 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:01:54 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:15 -!- faz_ is now known as faz 12:04:56 ??ignite blood 12:04:57 ignite blood[1/1]: Causes all blood spilled in your LOS to burst into flames (and have a flame cloud placed on top of it), makes more blood get spilled in the first place, and also provides immunity to flame clouds. Alternative to Hellfire as the third level of the Demonspawn fire facet, making it tier 2 rather than tier 3. 12:05:17 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11.2-13-g9771293 12:07:13 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:07:16 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:41 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-398-g47f71f5 (34) 12:11:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:02 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:39 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:22:08 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:22:57 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:25:59 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 12:26:51 Slimes can attack player before deciding to go neutral when worshipping Jiyva. by elliptic 12:28:14 * SamB is puzzled that targetter_smite has a "bool affects_walls" member but doesn't override "bool can_affect_walls()" 12:30:28 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:31:22 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:31:48 hmm, there ought to be a way to explicitly indicate that a given method is meant to override an existing virtual method, to guard against mistakes 12:31:54 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:32:41 -!- Vidiny has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:12 Other hand facet: Runed Hands +20%, +40%, +60% spell power, (optional) -5%,10%,15% mp 12:36:14 ? 12:39:54 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:16 -!- dcssrubot876 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:53:23 From a few days ago; "[*] - the +4,+1 War Axe "Crap Cutter" {SInv Clar Stasis rN+ rHoly+ rPois+ Dismiss}." Got feedback from mumra, alefury, and Havvy, to which the consensus was rN+ and rHoly+ are strange together (like rF and rC together [wait, !consensus]) and rHoly+ is plain strange since it's nowhere else (and the holy stuff is convoluted anyway), then finally that it's too powerful with stasis as 12:53:24 the only penalty. The intent was to create an item that allows you to (--cut the crap) ignore a lot of various annoying things in the game, but with the cost of being unable to use those things. However, -Cast seems too much, and insufficiently thematic... 12:55:12 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:56:41 that sounds like pretty questionable theme in general to me 12:57:31 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:59:20 SamB: in C# you always declare override functions as override for precisely that reason 12:59:38 maybe we should have an attribute? 13:00:13 I was disappointed to see that GCC doesn't seem to have one for that 13:01:07 -!- freefall has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:19 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:22 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 13:04:30 oh, when autofight has "Failed to move towards target.", should that be a warning or something? 13:06:09 -!- lexodia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:06:12 it shuld be the same channel as "Unknown command" type stuff maybe 13:08:44 huh, that one goes to MSGCH_EXAMINE_FILTER 13:10:08 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:06 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:12:40 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:21 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:14:09 (I sent too much and was dropped; was it displayed anyway?) 13:15:58 yes 13:16:15 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:16:40 the rN/rHoly thing was the first thing i noticed but the theme does seem a bit strange 13:17:10 MarvinPA, that was @ Nivim, or me 13:17:12 why those particular annoying things? there are surely other annoying things and even more annoying things 13:17:24 Cryp71c: nivim 13:17:39 how about the axe removes item destruction and corrosion from your game 13:17:47 and feeds you autoamtically 13:17:51 and also isn't a war axe 13:18:58 so what does dismiss do anyway 13:19:29 i think it's supposed to be like warding? 13:21:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:02 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:17 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:58 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:26:12 hyperelliptic (L27 NaFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1177 failed. (Zig:6) 13:26:14 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:26:17 uh 13:26:18 -!- lambskin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:26:31 !lm . crash -log 13:26:32 20. hyperelliptic, XL27 NaFi, T:74300 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/hyperelliptic/crash-hyperelliptic-20130418-182611.txt 13:27:25 I guess obsidian axe was creating a demon in a cloud? maybe? 13:28:55 hyperelliptic (L27 NaFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1177 failed. (Zig:8) 13:29:36 !lm . crash -log 13:29:37 20. hyperelliptic, XL27 NaFi, T:74300 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/hyperelliptic/crash-hyperelliptic-20130418-182611.txt 13:30:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:07 * SamB really thinks ASSERT(smc) should be banned 13:32:20 (and replaced with something that gives a bit more information ...) 13:33:17 it's unclear to me why there would be any special problems with calling cast_summon_demon in the middle of attack stuff 13:35:09 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:56 can you repro at will? 13:36:18 ??augmentation 13:36:19 augmentation[1/2]: (0.12 entry) Demonspawn mutation: gives scaling spell power and slaying bonuses with HP total: bonuses are equal to max(0, ceiling(mutlevel*(2*hp - maxhp)/maxhp))*(0.4*spell power + 4 slaying). 13:37:17 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:42 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:37:46 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:41 hyperelliptic (L27 NaFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 592 failed. (Zig:11) 13:40:23 SamB: I haven't tried to repro at will yet, but it seems not that rare in zigs at least... 13:40:26 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:40:33 didn't get it while doing pan with obsidian axe though 13:40:40 !lm . crash -log 13:40:41 22. hyperelliptic, XL27 NaFi, T:74803 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/hyperelliptic/crash-hyperelliptic-20130418-183939.txt 13:40:49 elliptic: what kind of clouds were you in? 13:41:37 anyway, I dunno if it's worth saving a backup to try under GDB? 13:42:21 oh, it looks like it is failing because of res_rotting, which would mean miasma clouds? from rotting devils probably 13:42:31 there have been poisonous and freezing clouds around at times too though 13:42:35 zigs are messy ;) 13:44:09 okay, I just got one like that pretty easily ... 13:45:02 how did you create the miasma? 13:45:24 you said rotting devils 13:45:39 so did &M until there was no more room and then I hit things with the axe 13:45:57 (after trying with less devils and running out before hitting it) 13:46:10 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:46:17 ??wild magic 13:46:18 wild magic[1/1]: see {wild magic card} or {wild magic mutation} 13:46:20 ??wild magic mutation 13:46:21 wild magic mutation[1/1]: Reduces spell success by 10% per level (7% in 0.11) but increases spell power by 50% per level (pre-stepdown, stacks with enhancer staves). 13:47:57 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:49:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:58 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 13:52:46 #4 0x0872163f in mons_class_holiness (mc=RANDOM_DEMON_COMMON) at mon-util.cc:592 13:53:42 hm, why is _DEMON_AXE_melee_effect calling cast_summon_demon with god = attacker->deity()? 13:53:52 that's only supposed to be if the god is acting 13:53:52 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 13:54:05 dunno 13:54:29 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:46 yeah, that's the problem I think 13:55:09 since it only checks to see whether the summon appears in a safe square if it was created by a non-xom god 13:55:24 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:55:56 I reprod with Beogh, though 13:56:02 an Octopode of Beogh 13:57:11 right, it would be a problem whenever a non-xom god tries to place a monster using something like RANDOM_DEMON_COMMON I think 13:57:35 oh 13:58:13 anyway, I think it's a bug in create_monster that it calls calls mons_class_holiness with a possibly-not-an-actual-monster class? 13:58:15 the code in question is in create_monster... it looks like maybe adding an is_random_monster(mg.cls) check might fix the crash 13:58:20 right 13:58:52 oh, it isn't any god 13:59:11 or maybe it is 13:59:11 hm 13:59:18 not sure there is a good way of fixing this 13:59:58 why is create_monster trying to check this stuff with an unresolved monster? 14:00:26 oh, _is_random_monster doesn't catch stuff like RANDOM_DEMON_COMMON 14:01:33 right, ideally it would decide what the monster is earlier... 14:01:48 I don't know enough about monster placement code to figure this out I think, at least not right now 14:02:35 elliptic: quickest fix is just not setting god surely 14:02:52 elliott: well I mean in general 14:03:04 for obsidian axe, the god shouldn't be set regardless... 14:04:16 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:05:46 -!- browncustard has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:46 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:19 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:08:27 03elliptic 07* 0.13-a0-399-g192f84f: Don't blame obsidian axe demons on the player's god. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=192f84f362f8 14:08:30 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:11:55 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:12:21 -!- dcssrubot532 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:32 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 14:14:11 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:17:31 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 14:18:40 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:20:05 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:21:43 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:21:43 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:22:58 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:29:58 -!- Sprort has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:32:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:35:07 -!- Sealer has quit [] 14:35:21 elliptic, you always find reasonable problems with my ideas (a good thing, asuredly): +20/40/60 % spell power for a hand-slot facet (as an alternative to claws)? Could adjust those numbers and provide some other interesting effect on wielded weapons (if a weapon has no brand, give it a chance, based on mutation level to cause some damage as if a conjuration was cast, when a weapon attack hits)? 14:36:09 (e.g. you channel magic through your weapon to do *some effect* (or as the above example states, bonus damage, which is cool...but also a little boring) 14:36:56 maybe make it an enhancer instead of +x% power 14:37:09 it would get proper stepdown 14:38:10 galehar, btw, I wanted to ask you regarding your AEVP formulas, what's the current one you are playing with, is it still these: http://bit.ly/13jNR9u 14:38:45 (5*penalty^2 / (str+3)), I think 14:39:05 galehar, the % power addition is before stepdown, it works exactly the same as ??augmentation and ??wild magic mutation 14:39:19 the EVP formula is right, but it also comes with some changes to armour stats 14:39:30 which I think you mistook for typos :) 14:39:39 I'm rewritting it to make it clear 14:40:44 oh right (power mut), good then 14:41:04 doesn't enhancer work the same way (+x% before stepdown)? 14:41:25 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:41:52 yes, +50% per enhancer, pre-stepdown 14:42:33 So 20/40/60 isnt all that strong, in reality (I guess that's why wild magic uses 50 per level of the mut. 14:42:54 ok 14:42:59 But it would account for a single enhancer for all spells, by the end of it..plus if it has some additional effect on wielded weapons (or unarmed combat, or both) 14:43:30 they work the same way as enhancers, it's just so that they can stack with enhancers and use different formulae, yeah 14:43:56 MarvinPA, your feedback on this hand facet would be appreciated it too. 14:44:12 maybe 25/50/75 is easier to understand (0.5/1/1.5 enhancer), but maybe the balance is better with 20/40/60 14:47:48 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:53 hmm, i guess it doesn't need to be hugely powerful, not sure how that would compare to claws 14:49:03 could have a chance of shooting a low-power imb at the thing you hit for a melee effect or something, but if the idea is to differentiate it from claws then maybe the non-melee bit should be the more noticeable effect 14:49:07 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:49:10 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:48 chance of restoring mp when you hit in melee? 14:50:51 and i don't really have any idea how much of a power enhancer would be comparable to claws' melee damage 14:51:00 lots of games have such things, but crawl doesn't 14:51:04 it's a bit weird to have the coinflip between "supports UC" and "supports spellpower-caring magic" 14:51:09 not to say it couldn't work 14:51:11 MarvinPA, early, its pretty powerful...later, its very timid (since you can't exceed the max power of a spell anyways) 14:51:14 it's just a strange dichotomy :P 14:51:44 elliott, it would be "always supports spellpower-caring magic" and in melee, sometimes supports via additional effects 14:52:08 <|amethyst> Cryp71c: he means between claws and the new mut 14:52:17 <|amethyst> the coinflip, that is 14:52:18 ah, yeah I misunderstood. 14:52:50 MarvinPA, a necromancer's pain starts at power 12, a single enhancer (+50%) brings that up to 19 (I guess because its actually some fraction of 12, like 12.4) 14:53:02 well, just add a third hand slot mut obv :Y 14:53:45 literally make it a third hand, unlock the power of the 2H weapon + shield build 14:53:53 The effect-on-hit was hoping / intending that it would still encourage a hybridized style of play. 14:55:00 SwissStopwatch: "third eye" as a head slot mut might be neat 14:55:08 pretty demonic-looking 14:55:13 ontoclasm, effects? 14:55:16 uh 14:55:17 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:55:27 as for max spell power, it's probably worth noting that a lot of characters never get anywhere near that for some of the spells they cast 14:55:33 chance to confuse targets that cast spells at you 14:55:52 i.e. related to the jiyva eye mut 14:56:17 <|amethyst> Mythologically, the thing that would make the most sense for "third eye" is something akin to antennae, but that's taken :( 14:56:21 alternately some divination-like thing i guess 14:57:42 Yeah, not sure divination type thing will fly..and we already have 2 head slots (although more isn't inherently bad)...I do want to get a couple of cloak slots in place. Clearly wings (of some special variety) are an obvious choice, but I need a 2nd cloak slot facet. 14:58:20 enormous anime shoulder spikes 14:58:33 <|amethyst> displacer-beast-style tentacles? 14:59:10 handless mutation 14:59:15 you can't wield weapons 14:59:20 benefit yet to be decided 14:59:26 the turtle shell from that one badforum entry 14:59:27 also no changing armour?? 14:59:32 <|amethyst> could make spines into a cloak-slot facet 14:59:36 elliott, no changing armour? 14:59:49 <|amethyst> s/spines/spiny/ 14:59:50 |amethyst, perhaps, certainly it would make sense thematically 15:00:11 some form of a shell / carapace might work too. 15:01:21 it gives you GDR!!! 15:01:22 <|amethyst> or could make pseudopods block the cloak slot instead of reducing body AC 15:01:51 ??pseudopods 15:01:52 auxiliary attacks[3/4]: | Punch: 5 + UC skill / 3 + (6 with blade hands) + 1d3 with claws (does not stack with blade hands) | Bite: (fangs mutation level * 2) + UC skill 5; + 2d4 with acidic bite mutation (and possible corrosion) | Pseudopods: 4 * (pseudopod mutation level) | 15:01:57 Tentacles? 15:02:29 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 15:02:39 <|amethyst> not exactly tentacles (no fine motor control, no constriction), but similar 15:02:48 <|amethyst> right now it's a jiyva-only mutation 15:03:39 I think keeping pseudopods specific to Jiyva makes it feel a bit more special 15:04:15 <|amethyst> Cryp71c: yeah, it would need a new jiyva mut to compensate if it were made into a DS mut instead 15:04:33 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 15:06:06 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:06:27 -!- Sealer has quit [] 15:07:45 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:07:51 brb 15:07:56 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:15 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:09:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:41 !tell elliptic actually, my str/evp proposal has a single AC change, and it's more like a merge of splint and chain 15:09:41 galehar: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 15:10:01 <|amethyst> tail would be a nice cloak-blocker, except it doesn't block cloaks for draconians 15:10:06 !tell elliptic https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:mutation:stats&#effect_of_strength_on_armour_evp 15:10:06 galehar: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 15:10:15 <|amethyst> (I'm not counting nagas because they're a completely different shape) 15:10:39 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:16 <|amethyst> Cryp71c: repeating what I said when you were disconnected: tail would be a nice cloak-blocker, except it doesn't block cloaks for draconians 15:11:57 Yeah, tails are hard to justify since they would behave differently for different races 15:12:28 I've had ideas for "Skeletal Wings" and "Tattered Wings" if all else fails, I just wanted two different ideas if possible. 15:13:21 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:06 surely tails should block body armour if anything? 15:14:20 it should block butt armour 15:14:48 indeed, butt armor indeed. We'll implement it, then block it for tails. 15:14:54 No butt armor for butt-less races. 15:15:29 -!- Ursa2 has quit [] 15:15:56 <|amethyst> mumra: I was thinking the cloak goes down further than the body armour (covering the backs of your legs etc) 15:15:57 -!- rossi has quit [Client Quit] 15:16:21 <|amethyst> mumra: but I guess that depends on what "body armour" is exactly 15:16:51 i imagine body armour usually as a full-body suit, whereas a cloak (or a robe for that matter) could drape around your tail better 15:17:09 Well, any ideas, please feel free to !tell 15:17:28 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:39 Cryp71c: also, I've rewritten and clarified my EVP proposal 15:17:42 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:mutation:stats&#effect_of_strength_on_armour_evp 15:17:45 your tail blocks the cloak slot because it looks super awesome and you can't bear to cover it up with a cloak 15:17:45 ontoclasm: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:21:27 -!- Zermako has quit [] 15:24:19 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:25:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:56 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:26:13 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:27:56 galehar, those choice of colors makes seeing which new line compares against which old line hard __- 15:28:00 -!- yalue has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:01 but eh, no worries. 15:28:48 yeah, sorry the graph is a bit buzzy 15:28:56 feel free to improve it :) 15:29:30 Alas, leaving work. 15:29:33 I tried to chose colours similar to the glyph colour of items 15:31:04 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 15:32:33 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:32:37 -!- VolteccerJack_ has quit [Client Quit] 15:32:55 -!- doome has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:34:04 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:55 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:39:54 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:26 -!- dcssrubot26 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:30 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:44:32 player content submission: add new "mana shield" mutation. by cjo 15:45:59 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:47:39 -!- spriseris has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 15:50:48 galehar: ah, for some reason I thought the proposal included changing CPA base AC and such 15:50:53 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:19 well, I considered it, but maybe it's not necessary 15:53:08 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:54:35 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:38 Webtiles: Fixes for help menus displayed during character creation by CKyle 15:55:58 galehar: so I think I mentioned before that I thought this was a pretty large buff to casting in really heavy armour (plate+) 15:57:05 so, adjust the spellcasting penalty or the EVP formula? 15:57:11 -!- cjo_dcss has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:31 or don't buff the heavy armour so much? 15:58:01 although, raising back plate+ by 1 EVP would nerf them a bit compared to now 15:58:06 I'd say that the heavier armours shouldn't be buffed like this, yeah... maybe they could use 5.5, 6.5, 7.5 or something 15:58:31 -!- AirwaveRaid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:33 oh right 15:58:43 not sure, I'd have to fiddle with numbers 15:58:51 but then, maybe change the scale to avoid decimal 15:59:07 the number is pretty arbitrary now I think 15:59:26 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:59:36 changing the scale sounds sorta tricky 15:59:37 btw, there are some formulas currently that use the base EVP value 15:59:42 ??dodging[2] 15:59:42 dodging[2/3]: Your dodging bonus is reduced by 30*(EVP - 1)/strength, where EVP is the base penalty of your body armour (does not depend on Armour skill). 15:59:42 people are sometimes confused that EVP doesn't equal how many EV they lose 15:59:45 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 15:59:55 how are those going to be handled? 16:00:02 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 16:00:15 galehar: well, there's no real way for EVP to be equal to the number of EV they lose 16:00:26 since that depends on other factors 16:00:38 I'll try a scale with GDA at 27 :) 16:00:42 so yeah, I agree it is a pretty arbitrary number 16:00:57 heh 16:01:08 armour heaviness: sultana, choko, ration 16:01:41 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:51 isn't the dodging penalty reduced by the armour skill? 16:02:36 no 16:03:00 or at least it didn't use to be 16:03:02 there are 2 different formulas there that -both- apply, right 16:03:52 though hm, it looks like it is currently 16:03:59 the dodging bonus depends on EV, right? And the reduction to EV depends on armour skill? 16:03:59 did someone change this unintentionally 16:04:45 Pikel's Slaves turning friendly on Enslaving him, not turning hostile again after by Frelus 16:06:09 oh, no, it is indeed not using armour skill currently 16:06:34 * SamB wonders if we could use breakpad ... 16:06:44 galehar: the dodging bonus depends on dodging skill and dex, the entry in dodging[2] is a penalty applied to the dodging bonus and does not depend on armour skill 16:07:18 galehar: AEVP (i.e. the thing you've been talking about changing) also is subtracted from EV, separately 16:07:53 so currently the formula for player EV is something like 16:08:52 10 + max(0, dodging bonus - 30*(base EVP - 1)/strength) - AEVP 16:09:20 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:09:28 does that work well? 16:09:35 isn't it needlessly complicated? 16:10:29 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:38 also, isn't it a bit weird that when you raise dodging, your EV doesn't change until it has overcome the penalty and then it raises normally? 16:10:39 I think that it is important to have the penalty to dodging on top of the penalty to EV 16:10:47 ok 16:11:05 the reason for this is that otherwise you'd want to train dodging in heavy armour just as much as in a robe 16:11:21 because it would give you the same bonus 16:11:30 * SamB notices breakpad doesn't have very good arch coverage 16:11:48 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:11:49 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:12:00 galehar: maybe it would be a bit better to have the penalty to dodging be multiplicative, though 16:12:16 yeah, that's what I was thinking 16:13:40 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:14:47 though that might not be great either, hm... since you don't really want wearing leather vs robe to cost more EV as your dodging skill and dexterity grow 16:15:45 I'd say for now leaving the EV formula mostly unchanged is probably best 16:15:57 if "base EVP" changes slightly for a few armours that is fine 16:16:08 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:36 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 16:22:13 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:22:20 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:22 (2/5) * EVP^2 / (str + 3) 16:22:23 http://fooplot.com/plot/w3ix4vctzj 16:22:40 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:52 !tell Cryp71c I see I missed some discussion of mutations earlier... about a hand facet giving some spell power boost, it could work with tweaking (+60% to all spells is a lot more powerful than you give it credit... that's stronger than robe of the archmagi, which is a coveted item) 16:22:52 elliptic: OK, I'll let cryp71c know. 16:23:26 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Client Quit] 16:24:06 maybe 15/30/45 then for the spell boost mut 16:24:16 !tell Cryp71c one incidental thing: if we come up with other hand facets, I'd sort of like to remove claws as an option altogether. It's completely useless unless you are using unarmed and we have three other clawed races already 16:24:16 elliptic: OK, I'll let cryp71c know. 16:25:21 increasing the EVP scale gives us more room to balance and differentiate armours :) 16:25:58 for the dodging bonus, we can use EVP/3, should work ok 16:26:13 yeah 16:26:37 looks pretty good... the bigger scale indeed makes it easier to tweak things 16:26:57 what do you think about merging chain and splint? 16:28:14 it sounds good to me 16:28:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 16:28:56 I'm almost tempted to suggest merging scale with ring, too 16:30:05 with the bigger scale, we also don't need to keep the dragon armours at exactly the same EVPs as regular armours 16:30:30 indeed 16:30:50 -!- atomicthumbs has quit [Quit: oh god] 16:30:59 though probably keeping them at the same EVP to start is a good idea 16:31:03 maybe we start with that, and then tweak further depending on how it plays out 16:31:06 yeah :) 16:31:21 I'm updating the proposal 16:31:38 -!- Frelus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:33:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:36:48 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:28 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-399-g192f84f (34) 16:39:23 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:mutation:stats&#effect_of_strength_on_armour_evp 16:39:26 there, updated 16:42:39 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:43:32 -!- Moredread has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:56 -!- Sealer has quit [] 16:45:53 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:46:18 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:49:25 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:51:53 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:03 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:52:35 hello folks, I submitted a guardian-spirit style mutation to Mantis and wanted to stop in to say hi 16:53:27 (Not that I expect anyone has seen it yet, but I still thought I should check in.) 16:54:53 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:55:07 -!- Vidiny has quit [Quit: [19:23] don't they have refill machines in ikea [19:24] bet those muricans took their vases to those straight away after paying] 16:55:47 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 17:03:24 cjo_dcss: a message automatically gets posted here by a bot whenever someone adds a mantis issue 17:03:40 ah, cool 17:03:58 so people have seen it exists but nobody commented so probably nobody had a chance to look at it ;) 17:05:18 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 17:05:19 Yeah, I figured, since I just submitted it. :) I still thought maybe I should stop by and see what's up... *shrug* I don't normally use IRC 17:06:44 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:07:23 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:07:36 does the mutation increase max MP? 17:08:06 Not currently, but I did not include the initial suggestion to reduce hp either. 17:08:58 It acts like guardian spirit at level 1, then increases the amount of damage applied to mana at level 2 and level 3 (double and triple, respectively). 17:12:14 applying more damage to MP doesn't actually sound that good unless you mean it makes the eschange rate better 17:12:18 i have a feeling that it needs increased MP to work, definitely at higher mut levels (but of course if MP is increased you have to decrease HP otherwise you are effectively increasing the player's max HP) 17:12:31 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:12:31 -!- dcssrubot610 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:59 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:13:09 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 17:13:18 well the entire point of gspirit is basically to have more HP anyway 17:13:47 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:15 well yeah but then increasing maxmp means an even bigger gain in HP 17:15:13 I figured I had to do both or neither of +MP -HP, I started with neither but could change it 17:15:18 anyway, applying more damage to MP kind of just makes levels 2 and 3 worse than the way gspirit works by default and presumably at level 1 17:15:28 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:15:48 it's a tricky one 17:16:16 Is it always worse? If you are mostly casting buff spells, wouldn't it sometimes be better? 17:16:24 well, here's the thing 17:16:56 when I wear gspirit (which is a lot, on a lot of chars), the tradeoff I'm accepting is that when I run out of MP, it will only be in a circumstance where the hit would've been lethal anyway 17:17:11 but until then I want to have the MP to do things with 17:17:43 your HP is really your MP+HP when you wear it, after all 17:18:45 essentially I don't care how low my HP specifically goes, because as long as I still have MP (and at least 1 HP) I'm not dying 17:19:15 it might be better if say level 1 was 50% normal, level 2 was equal to the amulet, and level 3 was say 150% 17:19:44 but also give something to help the player: i.e. a better exchange rate than GS amulet, or increased MP 17:19:51 level 1 would actually be better then unless you're changing the exchange rate 17:20:16 well the thing with the amulet is that it splits based on your current hp/mp 17:20:17 like ideally I would be taking -all- the damage to HP except the last one, and then all of it to MP until that runs out, really 17:20:24 and yes 17:20:50 essentially what I am trying to say is that the more damage gets directed to your MP the worse it is 17:21:01 right 17:21:03 maybe that could differentiate the mutation from the amulet 17:21:12 i.e. level 3 takes just from your HP until 1HP 17:21:52 once you're at 1HP all damage is taken from MP instead 17:21:53 of course, one caveat is that this is only true while you're still wearing the gspirit obviously 17:22:24 what is? 17:22:52 it being best to take all the damage to HP, maybe 17:22:59 -!- Felyza_ is now known as Felyza 17:23:03 we're talking about a Ds mutation tho 17:23:07 right, right 17:23:14 It's just a quirk with how normal gspirit is. :P 17:23:27 I do realize muts aren't so swappable 17:23:34 so maybe the mutation should progress in the opposite direction: at higher tiers, more damage is preferentially applied to hp first? 17:23:56 or alternately, keep the ratio static but add bonus MP at higher levels? 17:24:12 either of those would likely be better, although the way MP gain works... 17:24:28 the bonus MP may well not amount to much with the 50 softcap 17:24:37 or anything, even 17:24:52 the way MP is calculated is strange 17:25:42 one or both of them yes (so long as this mutation isn't just way too gamechanging to really be viable ... it sounds really hard to adapt some characters to this) 17:25:43 (of course there are also weird edge cases like using a potion of magic as a potion of heal wounds with gspirit, but that's probably not worth worrying about) 17:27:08 SwissStopwatch: I don't think those aren't edge cases, they're part of why the mutation is at least partially good. Not just potions of magic, also sublimation of blood & other mana restoration methods. 17:28:05 -!- ophanim_school has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:28:55 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35:50 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:43:04 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 17:53:17 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:53:18 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:01 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:00:48 -!- OndePyrat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:01:00 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:25 -!- mnoqy is now known as monqy 18:01:32 -!- monqy is now known as mnoqy 18:05:57 yes, sublimation of blood is something I spam pretty happily with gspirit (also frequently without, granted) 18:08:40 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 18:08:49 -!- Kellhus_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:09:27 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:11:43 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:13:04 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:15:26 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:06 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 18:28:04 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:31:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:37 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:32:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:35 -!- Libelnon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:39:15 SwissStopwatch, you mentioned the exchange rate (how many HP are spared vs how many MP lost. Do you think loss of one MP can spare more than one HP and still have the mutation be reasonable in power? 18:40:34 you'd have to be very careful with the exchange rate 18:40:35 mumra: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:40:53 like if 1MP was worth 2HP that would already be extremely powerful, probably too much so 18:41:07 !messages 18:41:07 (1/2) HangedMan said (49m 42s ago): well the thing with the barding bug is that unless I'm crazy no running bardings actually spawn ever besides the lightning scales so one vault almost never having it seems kind of silly 18:41:11 !messages 18:41:11 (1/1) HangedMan said (49m 8s ago): of course I could just remove giving specific boot ego things and use good_item but that'd probably up the running weight so I'd have to rebalance loot in wizlab_golubria and uggggghhhh 18:41:25 !tell HangedMan why couldn't you just comment that on the Mantis ticket? :P 18:41:26 mumra: OK, I'll let hangedman know. 18:41:29 !messages 18:41:30 No messages for cjo_dcss. 18:41:35 gspirit default is already quite strong 18:42:37 -!- dcssrubot876 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:14 like as a Ds mutation it seems difficult to spread power over 3 levels for it I guess 18:43:43 gspirit Ds mutation needs some interesting twist 18:44:04 if it's just duplicating the amulet with a slightly different formula, that's exceptionally boring 18:44:16 cjo_dcss: some people read the ##crawl-dev logs who might not be connected now, they could send you comments on the Gspirit mutation using !messages so it's worth checking back now and then (of course they can also comment on mantis, HangedMan just likes making things unneccesarily difficult i think...) 18:45:17 -!- doome has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:33 mumra, I'll do that, & think it over. 18:47:24 gonna go get some dinner now, thanks for the advice folks :) 18:47:58 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:48:03 -!- cjo_dcss has left ##crawl-dev 18:50:41 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 18:57:53 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:58:55 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:01:48 mumra: youre so cranky since you became a dev :P 19:02:01 haha 19:02:49 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:04:05 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:05 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:07 -!- popbob__ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:11 -!- Felyza_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:17 i think work stress was getting to me, i am trying to be nicer (or just not post) 19:04:17 I thought that was a necessary skill 19:04:17 so you can tell people with bad ideas that their ideas are bad and to shut up about them 19:07:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:07:32 -!- popbob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:07:32 -!- Felyza has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:08:40 SwissStopwatch: the problem is it doesn't work, it just seems to create even weirder meta-arguments ... 19:08:43 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:14 maybe galehar is the only one who knows how to do it properly 19:09:27 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:38 but yes I can see it working out like that I guess 19:11:48 03elliptic 07* 0.13-a0-400-g9358656: Don't make blinking into shallow water take longer. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=935865657bab 19:11:48 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 19:13:23 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:15:14 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:17 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:22:52 -!- OndePyrat has quit [Client Quit] 19:24:48 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:16 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:27:24 -!- mnoqy is now known as monqy 19:27:34 -!- monqy is now known as mnoqy 19:31:01 -!- ryansee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:35:22 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 19:38:40 -!- faz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:39:40 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:42:33 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:04 -!- VolteccerJack_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:58:00 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 20:03:42 -!- spaceships has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:08:25 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:42 -!- dcssrubot784 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:49 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:22:18 -!- elliott has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:22:51 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:54 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:25 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 20:26:32 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 20:29:52 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:33:05 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:34:45 -!- NekoRex has quit [Quit: "All the vain and ignorant will look up and shout 'Save us!', and I'll look down and whisper... 'Nyo.'"] 20:35:07 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:21 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:39:22 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:41:18 -!- LordLovebone has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:48:40 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 20:49:46 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:51:07 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 20:52:46 -!- Ursa2 has quit [] 20:55:32 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:56:18 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:58:19 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:07:02 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:51 -!- Xomination has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:14:09 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:17:08 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:23:52 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:41 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:28:03 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 21:39:58 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.] 21:42:47 -!- dcssrubot953 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:20 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:45:51 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:46:36 -!- AirwaveRaid has quit [Quit: AirwaveRaid] 21:47:50 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:27 -!- Hogulus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:01:41 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:23 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:05:25 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12:38 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:13 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:49 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:17:47 -!- Megaman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:18:41 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:18:49 !seen kilobyte 22:18:49 I last saw kilobyte at Wed Apr 17 16:59:35 2013 UTC (1d 10h 19m 11s ago) saying 'MarvinPA: no mouths? http://www.theprincessplanet.com/2011/07/17/rock-ness-mess-part-6/' on ##crawl-dev. 22:19:05 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:02 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:20:44 -!- bh has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:56 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:22 -!- eb has quit [] 22:25:28 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:29:55 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:32:46 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:33:35 -!- Havvy has joined ##crawl-dev 22:33:52 -!- santiago has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:06 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:35:37 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:51 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 22:36:39 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:07 -!- Palyth has quit [] 22:40:40 hmm, should _CURSES_equip() be giving miscast effects when unmeld==true ? 22:54:16 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:54:37 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:52 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:22 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:22 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:53 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:23 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:53 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:23 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:14 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:14 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:00:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:01:08 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Client Quit] 23:05:24 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 23:07:08 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:07:13 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:12:53 -!- dcssrubot96 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:11 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 23:14:30 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:16:13 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:50 danharaj (L17 MfGl) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1780 failed. 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