00:00:25 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-b1-89-ga9c8a25 00:01:07 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-340-g739c2d6 (34) 00:03:29 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-340-g739c2d6 (34) 00:04:02 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:19 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:06:13 -!- imantor has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:07:19 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 00:12:58 -!- bitsailor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:58 -!- bitsailor_ has quit [Changing host] 00:12:58 -!- bitsailor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:17 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:19:01 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:19:57 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 00:19:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:20:10 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-340-g739c2d6 00:21:06 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:26:20 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:27:26 -!- bitsailor_ has quit [Quit: bitsailor_] 00:41:43 -!- Naruni has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:03 -!- ruwin has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:21 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:51 -!- faz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:51:31 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:51:31 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 00:54:00 -!- johnny0 has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:56:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:01:19 -!- dcssrubot854 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:20 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 01:16:50 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:17:31 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:18:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:20:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:08 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:34:16 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:41:19 why don't manuals auto-ID on pickup or step-on or something? 01:45:18 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 01:51:12 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:00:34 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:01:33 same for spellbooks 02:01:48 all could be id when stepped on 02:02:07 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:02:22 does trog still give more piety for un-IDed spellbooks? 02:02:28 No 02:02:35 good 02:03:17 ID on pickup seems fine, since they're on autopicked by default for most people. 02:03:34 ID on stepping onto them seems like it would give duplicate messages in most cases, then 02:03:57 ID on pickup has been discussed and people seem to agree it would be good 02:04:03 ie: "This is a book of X! a- a book of X" 02:04:21 I didn't mean it should be announced 02:04:28 on pick up is good enoigh and qimple to implmeent 02:05:01 * galehar is typing on a phone 02:05:22 I had wondered :P 02:05:24 and qimple was in its dictionary? 02:05:43 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:07:13 DracoOmega: nice bug. I kinda noticed ice beasts seemed whimpy 02:07:34 were killer klown affected? 02:07:53 I think they must have been? Since doesn't that just roll a random flavor? 02:08:01 And then use the flavour's normal code 02:08:10 I think chaos does more odd things though, so I am less sure there 02:08:55 they seemed a bit less threatening than usual last time I've been to zor 02:09:24 Should have been even more noticable for electric golems, I expect? 02:09:28 Unless you had rC- or something 02:10:00 The changes in kill stats for some creatures between 0.10 and 0.11 is quite impressive 02:10:08 yes eight. elec golem too. But I probably had relec 02:10:49 saw that in the backolog 02:10:51 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:16 why is there a delete character in your message? 02:11:26 elliptic's querying skills are impressive too 02:11:38 phone 02:11:43 Yes, I don't even know how to read that query :P 02:11:55 Not all of it, anyway 02:11:59 galehar: how did you even manage to type it! 02:12:03 -!- eb has quit [] 02:12:19 no idea :-) 02:12:21 me and elliptic will run the advanced sequell query class 02:12:45 sequell 101 02:12:55 not 501? 02:13:17 sequell 412a 02:15:52 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:20:55 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:21:19 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:23:04 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:58 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Changing host] 02:29:25 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:29:55 -!- imantor__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:31:24 -!- dcssrubot269 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:23 -!- popbob has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:44:15 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:46:55 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 02:56:54 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 03:05:30 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:45 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 03:14:59 i'm just looking into this rmut + !beneficial mutation thing i encountered yesterday 03:15:11 there's definitely some strange and buggy logic surrounding this 03:15:50 it looks like the gain foo potions were actually special cased to ignore all sources of rmut, except the rmut mutation itself 03:16:42 and that even in that case the amulet would have ided, but it's not doing so for beneficial mutation because the failMsg is false instead of true 03:17:02 it also seems slightly odd that the amulet is only ided when printing a failure message# 03:19:21 (and it also seems normal mutation potions fail silently and don't id the amulet and it's been this way for a while) 03:20:47 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Quit: Crazylemon64] 03:21:06 ... since gain foo potions used to override the rmut amulet, should beneficial mutation also? 03:21:33 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:21:41 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:45 mumra: they should ignore the rmut amulet, yes 03:22:32 the reason for this is so that players don't always have to remember to take off their amulet before drinking the potion 03:22:59 or there could be a prompt I guess, that would be fine too 03:23:17 but it's no fun to waste a rare good potion because you forgot which amulet you had on 03:28:59 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:33:06 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:33:44 you could make a (bad) quaff-id argument, but speed potions already exist 03:34:13 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:39:13 I did actually notice that monster brand bug when making meatsprint 03:39:25 though I assumed it was because of the huge HDs I was using 03:40:30 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:47 elliptic: there is the case of unided rmut too 03:42:54 (which is the problem i had yesterday) 03:43:15 and it didn't even identify the amulet which i'm also fixing ;) 03:44:00 elliptic: i assume zin _should_ still protect you from beneficial mutation though (he didn't used to stop or care about gain foo) 03:44:29 that sounds right, yeah 03:45:28 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:45:50 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:46:18 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:48 it should also not tell you you feel great when you are about to get rotted from it due to being undead 03:46:53 or if zin prevents it I guess 03:47:34 hmm, good point, but it's hard to do the checks in that order 03:48:00 start. 03:48:03 oops 03:49:22 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Quit: Crazylemon64] 03:53:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:56:53 elliott: the only way around it that i can see is if we print "You feel fantastic!" _after_ you get the messages about which mutations you got 03:57:53 mmm 03:58:50 Well, you can do your own checks for incompatibility before passing off to the mutation routine. ie: Are you undead? 03:58:56 And print a different message then 04:00:13 although, i don't know if there's anything wrong 04:00:29 there's nothing wrong with a potion making you _feel_ fantastic, even if it then goes on to do harm 04:00:43 It does read as really odd 04:00:47 i mean, meth addicts probably feel _great_ while their bodies are rotting away ... 04:01:26 * SamB_ thinks it's cool to sometimes use a less-used definition of fantastic ... 04:01:30 -!- dcssrubot885 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:22 DracoOmega: actually it's not that simple anyway, mutate calls _undead_rot() which calls the rng ... so we can't know prior to the function whether you're going to rot or not 04:02:32 No, I know 04:02:37 But if you're undead it can't do anything GOOD 04:02:41 Even if it won't always do anything bad 04:05:01 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-341-gaaa5f88: Auto-id amulet when quaffing potions of mutation, beneficial or otherwise 10(36 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aaa5f880a3e6 04:05:01 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-342-g763f6a6: Display failure message if beneficial mutation is blocked 10(32 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=763f6a628ea5 04:05:01 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-343-g6b3e3c9: Revert "Remove now-unused stat_gain_potion parameter from mutate()." 10(26 minutes ago, 3 files, 14+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b3e3c942091 04:05:01 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-344-g00d902c: Allow beneficial mutation to bypass rMut 10(18 minutes ago, 3 files, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=00d902c0632f 04:05:03 "You feel ambivalent!" 04:05:03 Haha 04:06:20 i still think we could do better on the name for !beneficial 04:06:28 it seems very wordy 04:07:44 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:08:04 restore abilities is long too 04:08:09 enchant weapon III 04:08:33 number of syllables though 04:09:16 and "beneficial" is still slightly inaccurate 04:09:38 every mutation you get gives a benefit 04:09:45 perhaps in addition to having downsides that you hate 04:11:38 i'd prefer "positive mutation" i think 04:12:10 that seems more misleading to me, plus it has some (mild) overlap with "positive energy" meaning rN 04:12:13 or "a potion labelled 'drink me'" 04:12:18 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:28 does anyone have any suggestion what the message should _be_ for undead? 04:14:42 or zin for that matter? 04:17:11 what do they get when quaffing mutation? 04:17:35 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:17:36 the normal "You feel extremely strange." 04:19:00 hmm, how about "a potion of lucky mutation" -- it's slightly more vague than beneficial but still implies something good is probably going to happen 04:20:49 i'm suddenly reminded of that red dwarf episode with the luck virus, and wondering how a "potion of luck" might work in crawl... 04:24:27 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:25:31 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:27:07 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 04:29:23 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:52 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:27 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 04:52:27 -!- Nivim has quit [] 04:55:43 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:56:40 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:05:51 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:08:56 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:15:47 Adding things to the shopping list with bargain status should still use the original price by Medar 05:16:38 // Ignore Bargaining. 05:16:48 const int cost = _shop_get_item_value(item, shop.greed, id_stock, false); 05:16:55 last parameter is ignore_bargaining :) 05:18:15 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:26:46 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:28:30 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:11 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:34 -!- dcssrubot93 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:30 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:36:48 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:41:42 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:42:31 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:52:57 mumra: do you remember what bugs you wanted to fix in bab35525 and 23dc6cb2? 05:53:15 mumra: I'd revert these commits, they cause a crapload of regressions 05:53:49 like, you don't get told the reason you can't use an item in any case 05:54:30 or, they break the flow of selecting items, causing for example wasted food 05:58:45 -!- Wester has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:59:35 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:02:35 kilobyte: the main thing was being able to waste scrolls by accidentally pressing the wrong letter 06:03:09 i seem to remember there being one or two other strange cases but i can't remember offhand 06:03:10 so they should mention that as the reason 06:05:46 i think it needs some refactoring, it's all slightly a mess; numerous places that call the inventory function have to duplicate the filter logic 06:06:02 yeah 06:06:05 because you can eat an item either through the inventory or through the item details, so you need the "can you eat this" check in two places 06:06:30 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-345-g58af273: Revert "Fix evolution mutations being incorrectly marked as temporary instead of no_rot." 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=58af273d1d38 06:06:35 the best way i think would be to pass in a delegate, and let the delegate be responsible for printing the failure message 06:07:16 for 0.12 though, this is so broken I waste a permafood item 1-2 times a day; this can happen for other consumables as well but you don't have them in muscle memory that often 06:07:30 I wonder if there is a way to make Mantis list bugs I have commented on 06:08:07 mutate(true, false, false, false, false, false, false, false, false, false, false, true) 06:08:33 faze: yeah... 06:08:40 kilobyte: are you expecting the prompt to drop you out entirely when you select a wrong item 06:08:55 :P 06:09:17 it always did, and if it fails to do so, the menu consumes keys meant for other commands 06:09:45 %git bab35525 06:09:46 03mumra * 0.12-a0-3188-gbab35525: Prevent selecting inventory items that cannot be used, including melded items for scrolls 10(13 days ago, 5 files, 24+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bab355256aed 06:09:51 %git 23dc6cb2 06:09:51 03mumra * 0.12-a0-3189-g23dc6cb: Don't allow player bypassing menu restrictions with clua 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=23dc6cb2b361 06:10:34 this happens so often with food especially because chunks tend to rot without an obvious warning 06:12:32 kilobyte: hmm yeah i didn't realise quite how much this changed the interface, except for inscripted items, but they would take you to a y/n prompt first so it's not the same problem 06:16:16 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:18:29 kilobyte: the biggest thing this fixed was being able to waste ?ea by using it on a melded armour -- another option would be to simply allow enchanting melded armour as some were arguing for 06:19:41 Wondering how to display shopping list when bargain is on 06:19:49 l - [D:1] a bubbling inky potion (16 gp, normal 21 gp) 06:20:11 Doesn't look so pretty I guess. Could only show the lower price too. 06:20:22 faze: possibly that mutate function should have an enum instead of all those bools! some of them are kind of mutually exclusive anyway 06:20:58 -!- gnsh has quit [] 06:21:09 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:21:37 kilobyte: the problem in the case of an unidentified scroll is that you can't cancel out of the prompt once you're in it, if you select a wrong item we either have to waste the scroll or return them to the prompt 06:21:52 maybe a "more" message would be better to prevent further item loss 06:22:50 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 06:23:22 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:25:01 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:25:39 -!- Sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:26:41 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:27:37 why did lrd targeting change 06:27:43 sorry, targetting 06:27:57 it is bad now, it asks if i want to hurt myself even if there is a very slim chance of this happening 06:28:33 like, 7/10# spellpower LRD is very likely not going to break stone and hurt you 06:29:03 -!- magicpoints has quit [] 06:33:37 kilobyte: i slightly disagree about the old behaviour; the most common case with chunks is pressing ey to answer 'yes' to the 'eat such and such chunk?' prompt 06:34:07 so even with the old behaviour this would display "you don't have any such item" 06:34:11 why not allow enchanting melded armour? 06:34:11 and you would remain at the prompt 06:34:49 adding special case code strictly for that case seems like a waste, imo 06:34:58 faze: that doesn't stop you wasting unided scrolls by e.g. mispressing and hitting the key for a loaf of bread 06:35:15 -!- grasida has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:35:40 how do you prevent that outside of a prompt for reading every unided scroll 06:35:52 faze: what? 06:35:56 it's prevented currently in trunk 06:36:02 wha 06:36:05 but the way i prevented it has is own problem 06:36:14 you have to press Y to read an unided scroll? 06:36:19 no 06:36:25 i think you misunderstand 06:36:33 i think so too 06:37:14 faze: right now the inventory menu will only list valid scroll targets. and it won't let you select an item that *isn't* a valid scrol target 06:37:18 right 06:37:29 if you press something else it says 'You cannot use the item at this time" 06:37:34 something like that 06:37:38 whereas before you could attempt to use a scroll on a loaf of broad 06:37:42 ahh, got it 06:38:04 so the melded items thing is secondary but as long as you can't use scrolls on melded items it also shouldn't let you attempt to 06:38:07 sometimes i try to wield or wear something and pick the wrong item, and i go back to the prompt 06:38:40 expected behavior to me would be to go back to the default state instead of prompting for another item to wield/wear 06:38:43 (there's a ton of inconsistency with what you can and can't do to melded items with scrolls e.g. ?ew, ?rc, but that's a different matter) 06:38:47 ah 06:39:01 faze: that's what kilobyte is expecting; but you can't do that with an unided scroll 06:39:02 this happens even if you press Esc 06:39:14 this has nothing to do with scrolls at all 06:39:20 what? 06:39:22 oh 06:39:40 once you read an unidentified scroll and it gives you the invetory prompt you can't hit esc 06:39:45 because now you know it's one of three scrolls 06:39:49 ah 06:39:55 so you have to see it through to the end 06:41:19 so in a way, the change i made resulted in the prompt being _more_ consistent in all cases ... 06:42:09 faze: that's the other thing, if you pressed a key for an item you don't have, it would stay at the prompt (in the old behaviour) 06:42:19 but if you pressed an *invalid* item you'd get returned to the game 06:42:24 this also seems inconsistent 06:52:37 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:55:41 -!- myp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:21 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:07 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:01:40 -!- dcssrubot905 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:08 -!- s951 has quit [Client Quit] 07:08:17 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:26 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:58 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 07:17:19 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Butts] 07:26:18 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:23 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:51 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:30:08 kilobyte: what's the best thing to do about this then -- revert in .12 and i'll try to work out something more polished and with proper messages in trunk? 07:30:54 I'm trying to bash some sense into it as we speak 07:31:08 ok, awesome 07:31:09 although it's mostly a revert for now :( 07:31:34 recharging is a mess, there's a lots of code that can be trivially simplified 07:31:51 yeah, it is all rather tangled. 07:32:15 it would _mostly_ have been neater to just allow using scrolls on melded things, except for how melded weapons work 07:32:15 for example, a wand or a rod always returns a message that ids the scroll, so there's plenty of useless logic 07:32:17 !lg . place=abyss s=cv 07:32:17 29 games for faze (place=abyss): 15x 0.12-a, 6x 0.11-a, 5x 0.10-a, 2x 0.10, 0.9 07:32:28 does anyone notice anything weird about that 07:33:13 or this 07:33:14 !lg * alpha place=abyss s=cv 07:33:15 10222 games for * (alpha place=abyss): 4279x 0.12-a, 1628x 0.10-a, 1523x 0.11-a, 1139x 0.8-a, 579x 0.9-a, 303x 0.6-a, 293x 0.13-a, 259x 0.7-a, 111x 0.4-a, 108x 0.5-a 07:33:35 is newnewnewabyss really supposed to get 3x kills? 07:34:45 the boosted number is at least partially (but possibly not fully) explained by people spending more time there to actually see the new stuff 07:35:03 uh 07:35:21 yes, 'possibly' not fully :P 07:35:36 have you looked at stats for how many CK games have been played in .12 vs older versions? 07:35:37 !lm * alpha type=abyss.enter 07:35:38 16974. [2013-04-12 12:17:14] pivotal the Brawler (L16 DrEE) is cast into the Abyss! (deep elf sorcerer) (D:18) 07:35:39 uh i mean AK 07:35:44 !lm * alpha type=abyss.enter s=cv 07:35:45 16974 milestones for * (alpha type=abyss.enter): 6101x 0.12-a, 3326x 0.11-a, 2231x 0.8-a, 1862x 0.10-a, 1214x 0.9-a, 778x 0.6-a, 544x 0.7-a, 502x 0.13-a, 219x 0.4-a, 197x 0.5-a 07:35:48 also, maybe people need some time to adapt their tactics to the new monster set 07:36:00 <|amethyst> !lg * place=abyss cv=0.12-a s=xl 07:36:00 4279 games for * (place=abyss cv=0.12-a): 2642x 1, 142x 10, 139x 2, 116x 11, 115x 9, 108x 15, 107x 3, 95x 14, 88x 12, 80x 4, 77x 13, 76x 7, 73x 8, 67x 16, 64x 17, 56x 5, 48x 18, 45x 6, 33x 27, 30x 19, 23x 20, 18x 21, 13x 22, 8x 26, 7x 24, 6x 25, 3x 23 07:36:03 <|amethyst> !lg * place=abyss cv=0.11-a s=xl 07:36:04 1523 games for * (place=abyss cv=0.11-a): 781x 1, 77x 11, 74x 10, 69x 2, 50x 9, 41x 8, 38x 3, 38x 15, 37x 4, 37x 14, 35x 12, 27x 7, 27x 17, 27x 16, 26x 13, 26x 5, 25x 18, 25x 6, 14x 19, 13x 20, 8x 27, 7x 21, 7x 22, 5x 24, 4x 23, 4x 26, 25 07:36:12 nice two thousand xl 1 deaths 07:36:14 less than double the amount of enters 07:36:20 !lg * place=abyss cv=0.12-a xl=1 s=name 07:36:20 2642 games for * (place=abyss cv=0.12-a xl=1): 265x eightleggedsage, 247x Charlie, 204x esfblueriver, 196x swinepaste, 152x brochacho, 104x Insomniak, 95x mamga, 79x Ayutzia, 61x tychotesla, 59x peppermilne, 47x universalalgebra, 45x neil, 36x Zenatrul, 30x rdb, 28x Aknarov, 27x ProvTheAverage, 27x Kellhus, 24x omnomnOMINOUS, 24x Swagmaster, 22x paymentplan, 21x Bashalt, 20x ddubois, 19x BlackOsam... 07:36:25 !lg * place=abyss cv=0.12-a xl=1 s=char 07:36:25 2642 games for * (place=abyss cv=0.12-a xl=1): 739x MfAK, 406x OpAK, 361x DsAK, 298x HOAK, 153x SpAK, 127x MiAK, 118x DrAK, 112x HaAK, 76x TrAK, 56x NaAK, 47x KoAK, 36x HuAK, 27x HEAK, 20x CeAK, 13x OgAK, 11x VpAK, 9x MuAK, 9x FeAK, 7x TeAK, 4x MuCK, 3x DDAK, 2x GhAK, SpEn, SEAK, MiFi, MfIE, KoVM, KoBe, DEAK, VpTm 07:36:40 <|amethyst> !lg * alpha place=abyss xl>1 s=cv 07:36:41 4208 games for * (alpha place=abyss xl>1): 1637x 0.12-a, 742x 0.11-a, 618x 0.10-a, 544x 0.8-a, 237x 0.9-a, 148x 0.6-a, 120x 0.13-a, 96x 0.7-a, 38x 0.5-a, 28x 0.4-a 07:36:47 so people have been startscumming abyss in 0.12-a a significantly more amount 07:36:48 kilobyte: enters don't include AKs who die before leaving, right? 07:36:52 presumably to see the new monsters 07:37:11 <|amethyst> !lm * alpha abyss.enter s=cv 07:37:11 16974 milestones for * (alpha abyss.enter): 6101x 0.12-a, 3326x 0.11-a, 2231x 0.8-a, 1862x 0.10-a, 1214x 0.9-a, 778x 0.6-a, 544x 0.7-a, 502x 0.13-a, 219x 0.4-a, 197x 0.5-a 07:37:31 there was a trend of startscumming the abyss 07:37:46 MfAK with a polearm, stand in whater and kill abominations 07:37:56 leave the abyss at XL8 or something 07:38:07 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:21 <|amethyst> !lm * alpha abyss.enter s=cv / lg:place=abyss 07:39:23 3807/16974 milestones for * (alpha abyss.enter): 1542/6101x 0.12-a [25.27%], 706/3326x 0.11-a [21.23%], 397/1862x 0.10-a [21.32%], 367/2231x 0.8-a [16.45%], 245/1214x 0.9-a [20.18%], 185/778x 0.6-a [23.78%], 140/502x 0.13-a [27.89%], 107/544x 0.7-a [19.67%], 80/219x 0.4-a [36.53%], 38/197x 0.5-a [19.29%] 07:40:14 haha, monster elemental attacks did nothing for a year? 07:40:14 <|amethyst> !lm * alpha abyss.enter xl>10 xl<20 s=cv / lg:place=abyss 07:40:16 1782/5635 milestones for * (alpha abyss.enter xl>10 xl<20): 785/2145x 0.12-a [36.60%], 344/1101x 0.11-a [31.24%], 175/672x 0.10-a [26.04%], 169/618x 0.8-a [27.35%], 102/378x 0.9-a [26.98%], 72/259x 0.6-a [27.80%], 51/166x 0.13-a [30.72%], 43/170x 0.7-a [25.29%], 27/45x 0.4-a [60.00%], 14/81x 0.5-a [17.28%] 07:40:35 so it appears to be a bit more dangerous, but not overly so 07:40:44 that has to be a new record for longest existing serious bug in crawl 07:40:51 alefury: they didn't do extra damage 07:40:59 still broke your potions, poisoned you etc. 07:41:02 well, slaying didn't apply to enhancer staves/UC for about as long I think 07:41:14 i think thats less serious 07:41:17 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:37 Yeah monster flavors not doing extra damage seems to beat out slaying 07:43:14 i guess the people who knew how dangerous some monsters are supposed to be stayed the hell out of melee with them, and the people who didnt know couldnt notice that something was broken 07:43:19 still, awesome bug :) 07:44:27 how was it found? 07:44:58 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44:59 <|amethyst> alefury: DracoOmega was testing making fire elemental melee pure elemental 07:45:05 <|amethyst> and they were doing no damage 07:45:34 haha, nice 07:45:40 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:41 nice anecdote to tell people who are crazy about game balance 07:46:51 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47:37 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:38 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:08 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:21 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:54:58 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:19 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:44 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:26 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:41 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:46 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:01:19 I wonder if there is a way to make Mantis list bugs I have commented on 08:01:24 i was looking for this too 08:01:39 Couldn't find anything 08:01:48 although, you have received email notifications for everything you've commented on 08:01:56 (should have anyway) 08:01:59 Yeah, that's true 08:02:08 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:02:11 Ended up looking through those actually 08:02:21 i actually wanted to check back and see if there were any patches you'd submitted that had been missed 08:02:48 if beneficial mutation now ignores rMut, should it always go through for satiated vampires too? 08:02:59 i removed some logic for that for the gain stat muts 08:03:23 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03:23 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03:40 and the reasoning there was similar (would punish you for quaffing without remembering to engorge yourself first) 08:03:43 There are some patches, but not sure if they have been missed :) 08:03:48 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04:13 -!- Arivia has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04:55 %git 7b85bd66d097a6a8 08:04:55 03MarvinPA * 0.13-a0-202-g7b85bd6: Remove some vampire special-casing for the gain stat mutations 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 18-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7b85bd66d097 08:04:56 I guess I should add patch as a keyword 08:05:12 Maybe you can filter for bug reports with files attached 08:05:14 i guess that didn't use the stat_gain_potion parameter for whatever reason 08:15:04 MarvinPA: it looks like that meant vampires could be affected by +/- stat mutation not just from the potion 08:15:06 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:15:24 yeah, although i think that wasn't actually the intention of it 08:15:44 pretty sure it was just for the gain stat mutations and then the - stat mutations were there for consistency 08:15:56 for the gain stat potions, rather 08:15:57 Medar: you can search for medar 08:16:20 that doesn't seem to really work 08:16:36 MarvinPA: i reckon it should stay as is, they shouldn't get the benefit of beneficial mutations but just rotting from !mut 08:17:03 it doesn't include the commenter's name as a searchable field 08:17:06 well that makes it a similar annoyance to rmut amulets, surely? 08:17:11 so only works if name is mentioned in the comment text 08:18:28 oh i see they _can_ get mutations depending on satiation 08:18:42 i haven't played vampires much at all 08:19:19 -!- Xelf is now known as G-Flex 08:19:25 yeah 08:19:38 ah i guess the undead_rot thing isn't shown in that commit :P 08:19:43 but yeah that's what does it 08:19:45 I added a patch keyword to (hopefully) all patches I've submitted (that have not been applied) 08:21:49 MarvinPA: in this case i don't see even why it should only be at satiated - shouldn't they just always get the beneficial ones if they're allowed at all? 08:23:29 hmm, maybe that was supposed to be a middle-ground between not forcing you to go all the way engorged but not letting you mutate when you're completely undead 08:23:35 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:46 since that would definitely seem weird at bloodless, at least 08:24:14 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:26:25 Beneficial mutation could bypass any mutation resistance, except if it's 100% 08:26:30 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 08:26:39 Allowing poor halflings to always get the benefits too :p 08:26:43 incidentally- 08:26:53 yeah i was going to say, halfling rmut actually did always work on gain stat potions 08:27:03 how about they just bypass nothing 08:27:09 or absolutely everything 08:27:39 Mutating mummies? 08:28:00 well absolutely everything provided that your species can mutate at all 08:28:12 "is theoretically capable of mutation" 08:28:28 Yeah. 08:29:17 MarvinPA: only MUT_MUTATION_RESISTANCE level 3 will definitely stop the potions 08:29:20 Personally I would probably prefer the nothing option. And add a warning dialog if you have any rmut on/are not fully alive. 08:29:33 lower levels of mutation resistance mutation have a chance to stop them 08:29:46 It's not like you find so many of those potions that the added work of removing amulet is significant 08:30:00 so halflings should still be getting the benefits most of the time 08:30:43 s/most/some 08:30:54 I guess the annoying case is unidentified potion, because then it can't warn you 08:31:06 well, like 1/3 of the time? and 1/3 of a very small number of potions is an even smaller number :P 08:31:28 well, that's how it was before with gain stat 08:31:45 -!- dcssrubot217 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:11 Medar: i already changed it to ignore the amulet, see the commit log 08:32:34 -!- syraine_ is now known as syraine 08:32:59 Medar: the point is the amulet is a strategic thing so yeah you shouldn't have to remove it, whereas if your character has a prpoerty of mutation resistance (intrinsic or itself a mutation) then it's no longer so swappable 08:33:31 Medar: oh sorry i misread what you said 08:33:38 Neither is amulet if you are ash, or if it also has contam or whatever 08:35:33 i agree with elliott for simplicity. the thing that bugged me was that my rmut amulet didn't actually get identified. but when i dug into the code i realised the old case was that gain foo bypassed the amulet. 08:36:51 i mean i agree it's annoying to quaff it with an amulet on 08:37:24 but a warning when you try to quaff it with it on (or when not satiated enough) sounds easy enough to code and like 80% less weird/fiddly/error-prone than making a bunch of special case exceptions 08:37:43 it was annoying i wasted the potion, but even more annoying that i still wasn't 100% certain what the amulet was ;) 08:37:51 of course that does mean you want to take rmut off before quaff-iding, but quaff-id is bad anyway so... 08:37:57 of course i'm a bad player for wandering around with unided amulets on ;) 08:38:03 right I guess unidentified amulets 08:38:16 but unidentified amulets are usually pretty bad to wear anyway 08:38:21 oh well, I guess every solution is annoying :P 08:38:37 <|amethyst> elliott: but if you're quaff-IDing you might want rMut for the chance it's an ordinary mutation poison 08:38:45 <|amethyst> so there's a trade-off and it's not a no-brainer 08:39:08 <|amethyst> s/poison/potion 08:39:17 well, sure :P 08:40:14 well i don't think quaff-iding is a particularly worthwhile thing to worry about here in terms of no-brainers 08:40:47 MarvinPA: I am more worried about the unidentified amulet case 08:40:51 but ehhhhhhhh 08:41:03 i mean the "no-brainer" if there is one is probably to leave the amulet on if for some reason you're quaff-iding and have both !mut and !beneficialmut unidentified 08:41:31 elliott: the amulet now identifies anyway 08:41:35 since chances are it's mut! 08:41:45 well let's say you have mut and beneficial mut identified 08:41:48 and are wearing an unidentified amulet 08:41:56 you have to remember to take it off before quaffing beneficial mut 08:42:04 (thankfully wearing unid'd amulets is usually bad) 08:42:21 that's the thing that is already not an issue 08:42:53 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43:42 -!- TheJediPimp has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:44:00 MarvinPA: were you reverting that vampire change by the way? i have it in front of me and can quickly restore the old behaviour in a much simpler way 08:44:07 no, go for it 08:44:08 MarvinPA: yes but the context is changing it to not have weird special cases... 08:44:25 since there is so much strange ambiguity like halflings and vampires and stuff 08:44:37 well halflings seem like not a problem since they are stuck with their rmut 08:45:00 it's not some kind of interface burden to remember to make yourself mutateable 08:45:12 they just suck and beneficial mut sucks for them! 08:46:40 always picking on the little guys 08:47:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:26 well it's weird that it bypasses some rmut but not others 08:47:33 for what is essentially an interface concern 08:49:10 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:52:11 i think talking about rmut mutation it's not really an interfaace problem 08:52:21 since you have to go to some effort even if it 08:52:27 even it's non-intrinsic 08:52:28 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:17 anyway i've restored the old behaviour for what it's worth; it's certainly not the strangest example of a special case in crawl :P 08:56:50 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:25 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-346-g8152a6c: Beneficial mutation doesn't rot vampires at satiated and higher 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8152a6ce3ec4 09:06:46 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:07 -!- madreisz_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:25:49 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:09 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:55 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:28:51 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:33:41 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:34:24 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:36:56 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:31 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 09:47:21 -!- antlions has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:37 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:49:01 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-347-g38637d2: Add a message when trying to reskill with all skills maxed 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=38637d29f1e7 09:59:11 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:01:55 -!- dcssrubot361 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:38 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20121208085021]] 10:11:01 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:55 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:56 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:16:28 -!- rossi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:01 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:24:09 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:12 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:02 -!- faz_ is now known as faz 10:39:54 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:41 -!- inpho has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:13 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:54:41 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:54:46 -!- DrPraetor|2 is now known as DrPraetor 10:57:59 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:18 -!- Arivia has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:02:00 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:02:00 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:02:53 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:04:52 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-348-g6ea6a6e: Ignore bargaining when adding to the shopping list 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6ea6a6ef34af 11:04:52 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-349-g2dcda89: Show lowered prices on shopping list with bargain 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 19+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2dcda8970001 11:04:52 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-350-g028d74b: Remove unused variable. 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=028d74b63546 11:04:52 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-351-gaa880b9: Typo fixes. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aa880b921b41 11:05:43 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:05:56 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:38 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:08 -!- MaxFrost has quit [] 11:09:19 -!- rabbashanks has quit [Quit: rabbashanks] 11:09:57 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 11:10:03 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:10:28 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:10:53 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:10:54 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:18 -!- ryansee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:11:18 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:15:42 MarvinPA: did that happen to you? (trying to reskill with all skills maxed) 11:16:24 i had all skills maxed and was curious what would happen, yeah 11:16:52 (it just brings up the menu and you can't select a destination and then you esc out) 11:17:29 or used to bring up the menu, that is 11:19:04 how many zigs did you do? 11:19:45 looks like i'm on 14 so far 11:20:24 :) 11:21:30 apparently maxing all skills took 12, http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/MarvinPA/MarvinPA.txt :) 11:21:48 -!- Luterac has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:26:21 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 11:32:00 -!- dcssrubot17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:53 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:35:04 good 14-rune game 11:35:35 though actually getting abyssal rune was sort of fun in my last game, many thanks to the people who have worked on abyssal layouts 11:35:44 they are quite cool 11:36:32 yeah i just haven't ended up in the abyss for very long 11:38:18 i imagine i'll break with my deliberate 14-runing and get it at some point, although i guess i should also do it on a normal character to get a better feel for the changes :P 11:44:18 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 11:47:48 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:25 Jewellery identified from afar by Ash and marked for autopickup doesn't show the autopickup graphic by Medar 11:50:43 -!- Lafaros has quit [Quit: On the other hand, you have different fingers.] 11:56:53 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:09 -!- TheNewGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:59:37 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:35 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:01:51 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:39 -!- Vidiny has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:38 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11.2-13-g9771293 12:07:54 -!- ayutzia has quit [Client Quit] 12:13:39 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-351-gaa880b9 (34) 12:13:57 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 12:14:03 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:21:26 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:16 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:32 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:31:11 -!- bitsailor has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:36 -!- bitsailor is now known as Guest33436 12:31:43 -!- TheNewGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:32:04 -!- Guest33436 has quit [Client Quit] 12:32:08 -!- Arivia has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:32:40 -!- bitsailo1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:44 -!- bitsailo1 has quit [Client Quit] 12:36:01 -!- bitsailo1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:12 -!- bitsailo1 has quit [Changing host] 12:36:12 -!- bitsailo1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:07 -!- bitsailo1 has quit [Client Quit] 12:37:54 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:03 -!- bitsailo1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:53 -!- bitsailo1 has quit [Changing host] 12:41:53 -!- bitsailo1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:06 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:19 -!- bitsailo1 has quit [Client Quit] 12:42:55 -!- bitsailo1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:01 -!- bitsailo1 has quit [Changing host] 12:43:01 -!- bitsailo1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:48 -!- bitsailo1 is now known as bitsailor_r 12:43:50 -!- bitsailor_r is now known as bitsailor_ 12:44:09 -!- bitsailor_ has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:18 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:49 -!- bitsailo1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:29 -!- bitsailo1 has left ##crawl-dev 12:46:43 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:15 -!- Zephryn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:41 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:16 -!- TheNewGuy has quit [Quit: A day without sunshine is like .... night] 13:02:30 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:52 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03:06 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:13 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:32 -!- dcssrubot745 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:47 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:12:30 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:16:47 -!- Nareusm is now known as Cerepol 13:18:48 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:19:13 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:19:13 -!- ryansee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:19:38 -!- syraine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:39:06 -!- ryansee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:41:56 -!- minced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:42:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:05 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:43 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:13 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:51:23 -!- Lyfon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:52:52 there are invisible items? 13:53:05 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:03 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:16 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 13:58:24 -!- spriseris has quit [Quit: back in a few hours] 13:59:40 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:38 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 14:00:39 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:07:29 SamB_, wha? 14:08:05 oh, it looks like it's just a confusing function name 14:08:12 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:32 because what it actually does is check if the item is inscribed with "=k" 14:08:42 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:49 potion of water no longer gives any nutrition at all? 14:09:19 -!- numa_ has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:25 ??fountain 14:09:26 fountain[1/3]: Clear blue fountains are decoration. Sparkling fountains sometimes act like random potions. Fountains of blood act like a potion of blood. 14:09:30 ??fountain[2 14:09:31 fountain[2/3]: Risk-takers, please note that sparkling fountains can make you {rot}, and with great regularity. (And mutate, and a bunch of inconsequential things). 14:09:33 ??fountain[3 14:09:34 fountain[3/3]: Aquatic life can survive in these. Cute, isn't it... that electric eel splashing around in the water. Drink the water, yes. 14:11:14 if a shop's selling an item i have ided yet, then i independently id that item; does the shop price change? 14:11:25 s/have/haven't 14:11:39 mumra: the price changes, yes 14:12:37 i mean an item where the shop is already telling me what it is 14:12:46 does the price go up or down? 14:13:19 the price changes from the price for an unided item of that type to the price for an ided item of that type 14:13:32 this usually means the price goes up 14:13:37 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:50 surely it should cost more in this case because it's getting me a free id? 14:13:51 elliptic: what? 14:14:16 mumra: what? 14:14:27 elliptic: shops with ided items 14:14:28 i'm talking about k - a potion of heal wounds (unknown) 14:14:43 so if i buy it i get to id heal wounds without using an id scroll 14:14:46 oh, that... the price is irrelevant then 14:14:49 er 14:14:55 the knowledge status is irrelevant 14:15:00 I assumed you meant antique stores 14:15:11 mumra: why should that make it cost more? 14:15:34 it's identifying the potion for me, as well as me getting a potion 14:15:44 rast: potion of water no longer exists 14:15:46 the price of an item in a shop only depends on what the item is described as 14:16:01 mumra: why should the shopkeeper care? how would the vending machine know about it? 14:16:06 ok, i was just wondering if (unknown) meant i had to pay slightly more for it 14:16:15 elliptic: when is realism a factor? ;) 14:16:27 -!- alefury has quit [] 14:16:30 -!- rossi_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:51 SamB_: does clear fountain nutrition exist? 14:16:59 in rl if a shopkeeper can charge more then they will :) 14:18:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 14:19:05 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:08 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:35 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:22:25 is there really nothing I can use out of http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/dlua/lm_fog.lua to make cloud machines go in a timed loop without overlap e.g. a differing section trigger every 20 turns without all of the areas eventually igniting at once 14:24:30 i have a feeling that lua timers are affected by energy randomisation 14:25:14 but it's definitely possible to set it up anyway; you just need to make sure each cloud triggers the next one 14:25:42 with what, listener? 14:25:54 mumra: it would be extremely strange if lua timers were affected by energy randomization, since energy randomization is only for monster movement 14:26:17 that degree of lua screwery would be beyond my basic capabilities so welp there go two volcanoes and three gehenna vaults 14:26:23 elliptic: i'm just sure i encountered this issue before but i could be wrong 14:26:53 if not energy randomisation then some artefact that causes it to not be a consistent amount of time between triggerings 14:26:56 why does Oka Heroism increase Stealth and Traps? 14:27:05 those arent heroic 14:27:41 rast: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7569 14:27:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:28:00 sneaking around a villian's lair is clearly easily potentially something done by a hero 14:28:09 yeah thats what promted me to ask... 14:28:16 so is casting spells 14:28:18 also detecting traps seems like a useful skill for a hero 14:28:38 oka is a martial god who cares about fighting strong enemies 14:28:46 sneak around doesnt fit with that 14:28:58 sneak around the weak enemies to get to the strong enemies 14:29:00 that's for the oka flavor lesson 14:29:02 okay fine stabbing strong enemies is perfectly fine 14:29:03 er 14:29:04 thank's 14:29:28 rast: you are confusing oka with TSO 14:30:02 oka doesn't care about any perceived dishonor in sneaking and stabbing, that's TSO's gimmick 14:30:03 -!- Nivim_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:41 sure but theres no reason for him to boost the sneaking 14:30:52 oka doesnt care if you use spells either, but he wont boost them 14:31:02 but it boosts stabbing, too, which is an attack 14:31:15 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 14:31:21 thats fine 14:31:28 oka just doesn't grok spellcasting 14:31:29 stabbing just makes certain attacks do more damage 14:31:33 doesnt actually help you sneak 14:31:36 he flunked out of divine magic school 14:31:38 anyway stabbing is going away 14:31:47 rast: the joke is that stabbing went away and now you get stab bonus from stealth skill :-) 14:31:50 (why???) 14:31:53 rast: the point is that stealth skill makes stabs do more damage 14:31:57 so, where do potions nutrify the player in general anyway? I only found the potion-specific cases ... 14:32:02 the weapon skill helps with that 14:32:09 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:32:09 why get a double dip 14:32:09 also stealth skill.... 14:32:13 ... 14:32:35 you're already getting a damage boost from fighting, and weapon, and weapon stabbing 14:32:51 yes but stabbing is the average of weapon and stealth 14:32:52 i suggest the damage bosot from stealth-->stabbing is not needed 14:32:53 anyway the point is that it is much simpler to say "boost all non-magic skills" than to say "boost all skills that some person decided fit oka's vague flavor best" 14:33:06 that's a good point, too 14:33:09 "all combat related skills" 14:33:12 <|amethyst> rast: One reason to do both is that it's now an average 14:33:16 stealth is combat related 14:33:24 rast: that would include magic! 14:33:28 <|amethyst> more importantly, stealth is war-related 14:33:39 elliptic: the lua "turn" trigger is called "once for each player turn that passes" -- is this a fixed amount of time? 14:33:52 <|amethyst> since getting the drop on your enemy is a major part of military strategy and tactics 14:34:14 elliptic: actually there's a footnote - “Turns” are a misnomer. The countdown operates off the value of ev:ticks(), a value which may be, but is not always, “10” for every turn. In practice, for randomised functions, you can times your values by 10 to roughly get a “turns” value: therefore, “50” ~= every 5 turns, “200” ~= every 20 turns. 14:34:24 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 14:34:26 so it's a slightly random amount 14:34:36 mumra: oh, that sounds like a leftover from the old duration system 14:35:06 it used to be that all durations were in player turns, and this was really bad 14:35:36 do you think the documentation is inaccurate, or might the triggers still be using the old system? 14:35:42 and stuff was switched to use aut instead, but not everything got changed... periodically we run across something that is still using player turns for no reason 14:35:56 I don't know 14:36:39 it looks like these are still using it, yeah 14:38:40 maybe the ev:ticks() thing is making it use aut 14:39:39 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:42:03 elliptic: it takes its value from you.time_taken, is that new or old? 14:42:16 that is aut, yes 14:42:23 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:03 but that value still won't be the same every turn unless i'm misunderstanding 14:44:06 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:16 there could conceivably be issues caused by only checking the timer every time the player takes an action, since the timer might have ended in the middle of their action 14:44:40 or the randomization that is being seen could be something else 14:46:02 looking at this FogMachine stuff, there are a lot of places where stuff could get randomized... I don't know whether there are parameters you can set to make that not happen 14:46:58 yeah 14:47:42 well, tenofswords has disappeared anyway but i know where to look at now if there's an unsolvable issue 14:48:26 my guess is that the aut handling isn't the problem, but I could easily be wrong 14:49:54 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 14:50:20 i think it might be the way the lua countdowns are handling the turn counts they receive 14:55:27 ... or maybe there isn't even a problem at all ... 14:56:50 -!- Lyfon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:58:28 -!- TheNewGuy has quit [Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!] 14:59:05 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:34 hmm, is it bad if highlevel books auto-ID? 15:05:05 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:43 well it is certainly intentional that they only auto-ID currently if you can memorize from them 15:11:53 yes 15:12:01 I realize that 15:12:13 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:17 if you are adding in ID on pickup, I'd say that they should just be marked as {hard book} or whatever the inscription is 15:12:35 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:54 so now I've got a lot of code to move around ... 15:13:05 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:48 ??tome of destruction 15:13:49 tome of destruction[1/1]: Casts random conjurations when read. Power depends on evocation skill. Also explodes on occasion. You might also (un)luckily get a random freezing/poisonous cloud, or a hostile small abomination. The page's writing has no bearing on the spell produced. No one uses it outside of Sprint. 15:14:25 that should auto-ID on pickup too, right? 15:14:31 that's already always ID'd 15:14:36 oh 15:15:18 manuals should too though, if you didn't include those :P 15:16:12 also personally i wouldn't mind if the hard books just ID'd on pickup too, but i guess if it's possible to keep the current behaviour then that'd be better 15:17:15 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:30 also i'm off out, bye :) 15:17:45 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17:54 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 15:21:58 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:24:38 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:26:50 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:27:09 SamB_: did you look into why meph cloud doesn't confirm for self-targetting? 15:27:18 no 15:27:37 just confused myself because an eel was 1 tile out of range :( 15:32:33 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:29 we probably don't want to say "This book is beyond your current level of understanding." and give a "--more--" prompt every time someone picks up a highlevel spell-book, do we? 15:37:33 -!- madreisz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:51 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37:54 <|amethyst> !tell Napkin is CDO being affected by the current wordpress brute-force attacks? http://it.slashdot.org/story/13/04/12/1940248/wordpress-sites-under-wide-scale-brute-force-attack 15:37:54 |amethyst: OK, I'll let napkin know. 15:37:58 -!- Nivim_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:58 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:43:35 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:21 oh 15:45:35 I think what I've just written is going to auto-ID rods, too 15:45:46 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:15 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:05 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:08 -!- faz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:07 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:56:53 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 15:57:43 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:01:05 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:58 -!- Sprort has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:12 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:04:48 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:06:05 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:58 -!- NekoRex has quit [Client Quit] 16:14:05 big question here: 16:14:15 why does mephitic cloud have SPFLAG_ALLOW_SELF instead SPFLAG_NOT_SELF? 16:14:31 ^instead of 16:15:08 well, it should be POSSIBLE to target yourself I think 16:15:18 at least if you're immune 16:15:23 I target myself when I have rPo 16:16:14 SamB_: yeah but SPFLAG_NOT_SELF just causes the "really target yourself" prompt 16:16:15 targetting yourself can be good even without rPois/clarity, at least in theory 16:16:25 elliptic: yes but not something you want to do by accident 16:16:26 mumra: ah, yeah, I wasn't sure 16:16:59 I've never targeted myself by accident. 16:17:00 oh, okay 16:17:02 <|amethyst> mumra: SPFLAG_NOT_SELF is supposed to prevent it entirely 16:17:06 then probably the answer is "no reason" 16:17:10 oh? 16:17:12 <|amethyst> mumra: e.g. teleport other 16:17:13 elliptic: if you try and aim at the square to the left of your, the tracer prompts; but if you try and aim at yourself you don't get prompted 16:17:19 maybe neither of the two? 16:17:30 <|amethyst> if (testbits(flags, SPFLAG_NOT_SELF) && spd.isMe()) ... canned_msg(MSG_UNTHINKING_ACT); return SPRET_ABORT; 16:17:41 <|amethyst> in your_spells 16:18:25 |amethyst: ok yeah i slightly misunderstood the call to spell_direction 16:20:54 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:55 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:20:59 i think possibly SPFLAG_ALLOW_SELF just isn't needed anymore then 16:21:34 the commit that introduced this was 16:21:35 %git cd8e5791a86b6c9fdbef116516135ae01d8a41ea 16:21:35 03by * 0.8.0-a0-1284-gcd8e579: Don't prompt for targeting self with some clouds. (#2487) 10(2 years, 7 months ago, 3 files, 8+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cd8e5791a86b 16:21:53 are the plusses of rods supposed to show up when you ID them? 16:23:01 ??rod 16:23:02 rod[1/4]: Contains a few spells. Wield and Evoke to cast them. Uses an internal mana pool which recharges gradually over time, even if not wielded. A scroll of recharging increases a rod's limit and enchantment by 1d2 (up to a max of 17 and +9 respectively), and (always) recharges its mp to full. See {rods} for a list of types. 16:25:21 other clouds still prompt if i self-target when immune. e.g. freezing cloud in ice form. 16:33:29 03galehar 07* 0.13-a0-352-g7df37b4: Add an option to txc to invalidated entries when merging. 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 9+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7df37b4c1f66 16:33:29 03Translators 07* 0.13-a0-353-g38b3582: [Transifex] Remove broken or useless links and duplicate descriptions. 10(8 hours ago, 12 files, 0+ 414-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=38b3582cf350 16:33:29 03Translators 07* 0.13-a0-354-g760961d: [Transifex] Update some french entries. 10(8 hours ago, 5 files, 17+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=760961dc5242 16:33:29 03Translators 07* 0.13-a0-355-g0556681: [Transifex] Delete obsolete translations. 10(5 hours ago, 26 files, 0+ 200-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0556681aa003 16:33:29 03Translators 07* 0.13-a0-356-gb504412: [Transifex] Sync. 10(80 minutes ago, 4 files, 36+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b504412b2f05 16:35:15 !tell MarvinPA actually, someone in ##crawl not knowing you could read-ID manuals without using them was my inspiration for implementing auto-ID on pickup (as opposed to merely thinking it was a good idea) 16:35:15 SamB_: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 16:38:34 03SamB 07* 0.13-a0-357-g425ea37: Auto-ID spellbooks, manuals, and (for some reason) rods on pickup 10(10 minutes ago, 3 files, 41+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=425ea37a756a 16:39:08 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:40:33 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:41:02 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:42:45 +1 for auto-id spellbooks and manuals. 16:45:08 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:46:08 SamB_: auto-IDing rods is weird since they can be cursed... 16:47:43 -!- CommanderC has joined ##crawl-dev 16:50:04 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 16:51:11 <|amethyst> Would ISFLAG_KNOW_TYPE work or is KNOW_PROPERTIES needed for randbooks? 16:51:35 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:18 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:55:03 -!- faz_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:31 -!- faz_ is now known as faz 16:58:46 -!- Nivim has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59:57 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 17:01:10 -!- rwbarton has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:15:28 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:15:39 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:15:43 -!- Wester has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 17:15:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:07 -!- ketsa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:04 -!- CommanderC has quit [] 17:19:19 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:26 hmm 17:21:12 does wizmode filter out cursed gear or something? 17:23:25 -!- Nivim has quit [] 17:24:12 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:15 Cheers 17:26:25 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:07 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:28:49 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:28:49 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 17:30:32 @tell elliptic huh, wizmode didn't give me a cursed rod even when I *asked* for the rod to be cursed; I guess you could just add a check for that around the relevant call to maybe_id_book()? 17:30:52 er, no, not for that 17:31:12 for bookness, or potential cursed-ness 17:32:16 honestly I'd just as soon make rods uncursable; currently the only reason for them to be is for Ash, and I don't think very many people curse a rod (since rods are best when you can switch between two or more of them) 17:32:55 checking for being known uncursed would work for now though 17:40:22 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:30 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:56 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:55:51 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:25 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:08 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:04:32 Amnesia scroll interface: list spells by dpeg 18:05:32 -!- kek has quit [Quit: pizza!] 18:06:21 I hope that's uncontroversial: ?amnesia should always show the list of spells. 18:17:02 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:23 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:10 elliptic: no idea how much time you have right now; I have only a little... there's talk about double-edged DS mutations. I supported and steered that discussion. Now, someone stepped up and might provide code. I'd love to hear your comments before he sets out to do work. 18:20:58 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:21:08 -!- Vidiny has quit [Quit: [19:23] don't they have refill machines in ikea [19:24] bet those muricans took their vases to those straight away after paying] 18:21:57 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:13 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:48 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:58 can somebody fix the bug where death drakes throw miasma for like two versions 18:31:59 tenofswords: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:33:19 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:55 tenofswords: That's a bug? 18:35:39 when the message actually says _The death drake throws miasma at you. 18:35:41 probably 18:37:24 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:37:51 should be s/throws/breathes/ ? 18:38:08 yeah 18:38:32 Oh, the message itself. 18:40:27 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:43:48 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 18:43:53 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 18:49:15 <|amethyst> tenofswords: you mentioned "two versions"; do you know a version where it works? 18:49:26 <|amethyst> tenofswords: err, where the message is correct I mean 18:50:28 |amethyst: why do you mention ISFLAG_KNOW_TYPE? 18:50:46 huh, I swear it didn't work in 0.11 last time I was explicitly looking for this sort of thing 18:51:03 but it works in 0.11 but not 0.12 18:51:26 yes I know that was 2h ago 18:51:54 * SamB_ was watching a Doctor Who christmas special 18:53:14 * dpeg wonders about SamB's time zone 18:53:25 dpeg: on DVD, silly 18:53:34 there's no time zone where it's christmas 18:53:58 it's christmas here 18:54:20 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:29 hey nicolae there is a vault thing I asked for you can surely think of something interesting to also do with 18:54:59 <|amethyst> SamB_: I was thinking if you did always ID the rod you wouldn't want to reveal its cursedness state 18:55:05 see if you can tell what's off in http://sprunge.us/CDVV 18:55:05 <|amethyst> SamB_: the other solution works too 18:55:43 -!- rkd has quit [] 18:55:44 <|amethyst> SamB_: that is, on the set_ident_flags call 18:56:13 what seems to be the problem with it? 18:56:24 by off I mean new 18:56:26 same difference 18:56:36 <|amethyst> nicolae-: that rods are IDed even though they might be cursed 18:56:44 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:47 <|amethyst> nicolae-: IDed on pickup 18:56:49 oh, i was talking to tenofswords 18:57:03 <|amethyst> oh 18:57:12 <|amethyst> sorry :) 18:57:18 i'm not sure what's new, i'm not super familiar with that particular vault 18:57:20 it's cool 18:57:36 siiiiiiiiiigh 18:57:39 "delay_offset = 60" 18:57:43 yeah i just noticed that part 18:57:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:57:57 that's cool 18:58:14 now go use it for a volcano or something so I don't have to 18:58:31 man ain't nobody wanna make a volcano 18:58:48 somebody made a patch for lm_fog.lua to add that? 18:59:03 mumra did yes but he is busy fixing bugs with it 18:59:05 SamB_: time zones are completely irrelevant when you're watching a time lord anyway 18:59:45 tenofswords: yes i'm totally super busy honestly i'm not really playing crawl on s-z 19:00:10 !lm mumra 19:00:11 981. [2013-04-12 23:57:18] mumra the Nimble (L13 DEWz) reached level 8 of the Lair of Beasts on turn 25182. (Lair:8) 19:00:17 !time 19:00:18 Time: Apr 13, 2013, 12:00:18 AM, UTC. 19:00:24 heh 19:00:36 clearly I need to make more lair ends to kill you in as punishment 19:00:50 haha 19:00:55 well i don't know what lair end i've got yet 19:01:24 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:03:18 one of these days i should make a few branch ends, i think 19:04:39 Make a Shoals ending or two. 19:04:42 tenofswords: Yes. More lair endings would be nice. 19:04:47 ... if you can figure out a good way to make that work. 19:04:58 !learn add hangedman https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdDBNSXhrZDNiZjV3bzU0eGd3N2lPV2c#gid=0 19:04:59 hangedman[14/14]: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdDBNSXhrZDNiZjV3bzU0eGd3N2lPV2c#gid=0 19:05:00 wouldn't that just entail variants on the existing little circles 19:05:01 Maybe a hydra filled ending? 19:05:02 hmm 19:05:03 Other than that, Spider probably needs the most endings. 19:05:14 (and better endings) 19:05:23 ah, good old Spider. 19:05:37 in priorities I'd say it's shoals, lair, spider 19:05:47 -!- pc__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:47 endingswise, you mean? 19:05:51 yeah 19:06:02 I'd argue that lair could use more endings since it is the one seen most often. 19:06:04 and then I will magically get people to actually make hells vaults 19:06:10 i'm working on hell vaults 19:06:19 ... what the hell. 19:06:23 * Grunt flees in terror. 19:06:36 i started when you asked for them ages ago and worked on them for a while and ended up with a whole Two (2) that i actually liked 19:06:37 <|amethyst> there was talk of a shipwreck at one point; could that be a shoals ending? 19:06:41 I'm waiting to make more Hell vaults until I'm actually in a position to play through the current state of the hells. 19:06:50 grunt: that's never stopped me, ever, at all 19:06:52 whoops, forgot to make that actually accessible as a link 19:07:01 The idea I've had floating around for a while for a shoals ending is the Palace of the Octopus King. 19:07:10 I'm just not sure how to make that work without it being excessively aggravating. 19:07:13 i made spider vaults before i'd ever seen spider in a real game. and then when i finally got to spider in a real game i realized i might run into one of my own vaults and kill myself. 19:07:22 !send nicolae- moths of suppression 19:07:23 Sending moths of suppression to nicolae-. 19:07:27 some kind of unique kraken? 19:07:27 !lg hangedman map=~hangedman 19:07:28 No games for hangedman (map=~hangedman). 19:07:49 mumra: a regular kraken suffices for the ending :b 19:07:50 the palace of the octopus king is clearly a weird wizlab 19:08:01 with nine potential unrands, even 19:08:07 or... two? how do you count the rings, there 19:08:36 how easy is it to make shoal ending vaults, though, i thought they relied on their own special layouts, that's why i never bothered 19:08:59 Yes and no; I believe it's possible to just make a straight-up ending vault. 19:09:03 it's like making a serial vault where they're all the same vault 19:09:08 except for one 19:09:16 (The branch .des even references this, even though it's never been done.) 19:09:30 there is also the prospect of a regular ending vault but boo that shoals is best when it's open and meandering 19:09:31 hmmmm 19:09:52 I do enjoy the idea of serial endings in general. 19:09:54 best and most lethal mean the same thing 19:10:14 now that's the kind of philosophy we like to see from a vault designer 19:10:36 Is it allowed to write an ending layout for shoals? 19:10:45 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:46 Or, well, I guess I mean practical 19:10:49 should directly write into https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o0qWOD4Jdzv3mqIsz6fm-zffJjmNpTgdK9qNkYpz3v0/ "by the way kill all players" 19:11:00 You mean, a layout specifically for that branch ending? 19:11:03 Sure, it could be done. 19:11:10 Just treat said layout as an encompass vault. 19:11:33 I'll leave the particulars of implementing such a layout to mumra. <_< 19:11:36 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [] 19:11:53 shoals_rune_monolithus 19:11:56 hang on i was just getting coffee am a little behind 19:12:08 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:38 haha, you wrote a manifesto on vault design, nice 19:12:48 mumra: I'm only half seriously invoking you here :) 19:13:13 you can tell because the candles around the invocation circle are half black candles and half number candles for birthday cakes 19:13:19 I was gonna seriously invoke mumra there 19:13:23 the divine experience leaves you half exhausted! 19:13:24 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:28 mumra: You are confused. 19:13:32 Cryp71c: active? 19:13:51 * dpeg likes manifestos 19:14:40 dpeg, yes 19:14:44 so basically, you can very easily take the shoals layouts and place some custom vaults in it; you can even mix in the normal huts 19:15:20 and it'd be quite easy to make variations on the standard shoals layout using noise patterns like the other layouts i'm doing 19:15:21 obviously I am not even remotely done but when it is I expect to be able use it to get you jerks to actually readily edit lots of vault things instead of just whenever somebody complains about one vault :P 19:15:32 just make a heightmap from some octaval perlin 19:15:50 There's a forum thread "Make DS mutations more game-changing". I cannot link it there, but it's on top. I've helped shape some ideas there (basically, I support having double-edged DS mutations and collected examples.) Would you have a look and perhaps comment? Someone might actually code stuff! 19:15:56 -!- ryansee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:16:12 you can't link it? 19:16:21 that's some broken forum 19:16:32 don't ask (I type this into irssi via putty) 19:16:37 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:56 here https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7441 19:16:56 It's the curse of Billie Gates! 19:17:01 thx 19:17:08 dpeg: you poor soul! 19:17:08 putty has pasting 19:17:09 dpeg: You might be able to paste with Ctrl+Shift+V 19:17:18 I use the mouse 19:17:21 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7441 19:17:22 (And copy with Ctrl+Shift+C 19:17:24 That's the thread. 19:17:27 I think it defaults to the right button 19:17:30 how is the heightmap calculated in shoals 19:17:36 might need shift 19:17:44 nicolae-: however the layout pleases? 19:17:51 nicolae-: i have no idea of the actual algorithm 19:17:55 ah 19:17:57 don't wanna go OT, and no, it doesn't work 19:18:01 but heightmaps are easy, perlin noise is ideal 19:18:12 I think we have a layout-shoals.cc 19:18:17 ...good place to look :) 19:18:23 i was gonna do a couple of layout variations, then i noticed on kilobyte's layout branch there's an islandy type one already 19:18:31 dgn-shoals.cc 19:18:35 Sorry, that's what I meant. 19:18:38 Thanks SamB_. 19:18:43 yeah, I figured it must be 19:18:46 well i might just stick with regular vaults for now, layouts seem to be considerably more indepth 19:18:53 shoals_rune_monolithus_lus_lus 19:19:03 Grunt: i looked at it at some point, i just don't have quite _every_ layout algorithm memorised just yet :P 19:19:10 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:19:17 mumra: neither do I, which is why I'm pointing people there :) 19:19:30 Alright, sorry for the d/c, I'm caught up via the logs. I'll take a look at that forum thread. 19:19:48 -!- Sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:20:08 Cryp71c: cool, many thanks 19:22:07 -!- cjo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:22:54 -!- faz is now known as faz_ 19:23:02 hmmm 19:23:11 * SamB_ wonders why wizardless builds are supported 19:23:32 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:23:36 Obviously by people who want the magic to go out of the universe. 19:24:11 I was thinking fools who didn't realize there might be bugs 19:24:13 by people who worship trog irl 19:25:08 wizardless builds should have some small bug in them, and then when people notice it they realize they can't test it to find out if it's a thing 19:25:15 take that, wizardless jerks 19:25:47 as opposed to the completely unbuggy nature of wizard builds 19:26:05 they've already got those ;-P 19:26:12 haha 19:27:10 how necessary is it for the shoals ending to have the "stuff, in huts" arrangement 19:28:08 ideally the given serial huts are rather small (I trimmed my bigger end to like 11x11?) but you could probably get away with bigger arrangements if they still constrain regular noise and wandering well enough 19:28:52 oh i was thinking of having tiny huts, maybe not even with complete walls around them, but if constraining wandering is a thing that might not be a good idea 19:29:13 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:29:28 ??rebuild 19:29:29 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ Bug kilobyte or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 19:29:47 well you could place like a dozen tiny huts on one floor if you want to try a different sort of balance from the current ones 19:29:58 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:06 i could, i could 19:30:21 are Shoals:$ huts placed as a regular serial vault? 19:30:31 dpeg: Yes. 19:30:33 I think. 19:30:34 nice 19:30:46 I remember there being some quirk, but that may have been done away with? 19:30:56 greensnark converted it into a serial vault due to the ineffectualness of the previous vault connector things 19:31:02 Yeah. 19:31:02 yeah the code seems pretty straightforward now 19:31:04 That's the one. 19:31:12 Shoals is older than serial vaults, that makes sense. 19:31:43 but serial vaults aren't even a thing, they're just a design pattern 19:31:53 SamB_: what do you mean? 19:31:57 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:57 though I guess those start sometime, too 19:31:59 nevermind 19:32:13 -!- Compaq_Owner is now known as cjo 19:32:23 I guess "serial vault" itself is a horrible misnomer, but hey, I'm a German and there's this talk about serial killers all day. 19:32:37 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-357-g425ea37 (34) 19:33:14 fr: a serial vault named serial_killers 19:33:31 surely that's been done already 19:33:41 sounds like the most natural thing, from where I come from 19:33:53 it is, it's just mislabeled as "rogues_gallery" for some obtuse reason 19:33:58 ^^^ 19:34:24 i'll put that "a dozen tiny huts" shoals ending idea on my list of things to do 19:34:45 -!- cjo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:06 -!- Zermako has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:26 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:43 -!- bitsailor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:43 -!- bitsailor_ has quit [Changing host] 19:36:43 -!- bitsailor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:50 * Grunt bothers Cryp71c and/or dpeg, gestures to cjo. 19:37:05 Grunt: on what? 19:37:07 cjo, what's up? 19:37:36 Hi, stopping by on dpeg's suggestion to chat about demonspawn 19:37:51 -!- UglyThing has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:37:51 There was a thread on the tavern recently 19:37:56 Yes, I'm reading it now, actually. 19:37:58 ... just trying to facilitate discussion :) 19:39:56 ah, cjo is in -- hi! 19:40:04 I liked a lot of the ideas and wondered what the best way to proceed was--I'll eventually want to float specific mutation ideas someplace where I can get knowledgeable feedback. 19:40:09 Cryp71c: this is cjo 19:40:12 cjo: this is Cryp71c 19:41:19 cjo, hello, I've sort of been workign with DS over their last overhall (some time ago), so I know some of their implementation pretty well 19:41:54 cjo, the best place for knowledgable feedback is here, but oftentimes devs aren't available or can't have an extended discussion. Thus, the next best place is the dev wiki. crawl.develz.org/wiki 19:42:27 cjo, specifically this page, for demonspawn mutation ideas: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:demonspawn_brainstorming 19:42:38 What did you think of the overall idea of each demonspawn getting a game-changing mut? 19:42:41 The most basic question (and this goes to all of ##crawl-dev) is this: What do you think of DS mutations that are more strongly about adaptation than what we have now, by virtue of being double-edged? A primitive example: robust but slow. 19:42:45 cjo, but for the present moment, we can continue the discussion here. 19:43:53 dpeg, I like the concept...but think we'll need to be cautious for these double-edge facets to have at least some general use, even if a player doesn't leverage the facet optimally. 19:43:58 For more interesting mutation proposals, check the forum topic linked above. 19:44:13 Cryp71c: yes, agreed. 19:44:33 cjo, I like the concept. The difficult part is coming up with the mutation ideas. 19:44:39 Ironically, the whole discussion was triggered by Nightstalker, which is not really double-edged when it comes to power (it's strong). 19:44:53 i think the thing about nightstalker is "strong but annoying" 19:45:20 One other thing I wanted to touch on is including more slot facets, particularly ones which are not pure-offensive uc (such as antennae). 19:45:21 to all: how cautious to be was part of what I was wondering about. Obviously devs can change whatever I submit, but I'd like to start from a reasonable point. 19:45:25 nicolae-: yes, I think so. I never found it annoying, so that's reports by others. 19:45:44 nightstalker is super strong, but I could see it being kind of bad on some chartypes (also, hi) 19:45:47 personally i don't see any need for drastic changes, i think the best and simplest approach is just to add new mutations (that can be double-edged to whatever extent) 19:45:48 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:46:08 brb 19:46:09 so all that's needed is good ideas for mutations 19:46:12 MarvinPA: should I enter some mutations that have potential here? 19:46:59 sure :) 19:47:10 mutation ideas?! *runs to file cabinet, pulls out overstuffed folder labeled BAD IDEAS, runs back into channel* 19:47:17 -!- blabber has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:28 i didn't follow the thread all that closely but i've been vaguely planning to try and add some new DS muts at some point soon 19:47:30 ??badideas[$ 19:47:30 I don't have a page labeled badideas[-1] in my learndb. 19:47:32 ??bad ideas[$ 19:47:33 bad ideas[1/1]: See http://crawl.akrasiac.org/bad_ideas.txt or http://sites.google.com/site/cherrypickedbadideas/ for ortoslon's selection of ~100 favorites. 19:47:34 * Grunt gestures at nicolae-. The bolt of fire hits nicolae-! nicolae-'s folder labeled BAD IDEAS catches fire and burns! 19:47:44 oh, right 19:48:03 Grunt: unfortunately, the ideas themselves are inscribed on clay tablets 19:48:15 and they're a nice and easily patchable thing too 19:48:20 i think i posted some DS mutation ideas on the devwiki ages ago but none of them were intended as double-edged 19:48:30 <|amethyst> SamB_: wasn't that the plot of _Snow Crash_? 19:48:47 new unique, the Deliverator 19:48:53 when killed drops four pizzas and a katana 19:48:57 |amethyst: I don't know that I've seen/read that 19:49:30 <|amethyst> SamB_: (it wasn't really the plot, but Sumerian mythology is involved) 19:49:32 to all: one suggestion I liked was for a slow but sturdy mutation. So that could go whole hog, with slow granted at every level and correspondingly dramatic bonuses, or could give just one level of slow movement. So: err on the side of more change, or less? 19:49:33 DS1: slow movement, robustness, MP robustness, AC boost. 19:49:37 DS2: tentactle mutation: lose armour slots, gain ring slots. 19:49:42 DS3: Eldritch shield: fragility, increased MP, guardian spirit. 19:49:47 DS4: Wings: fragile, deformed body, quick, flying. 19:49:50 DS5: Demonic screams: shoutitis, sonic damage (like Singing Sword). 19:49:54 DS6: Improved spell power at cost of flexibility (crudely wild magic). 19:49:57 DS7: Third eye: when fighting monsters of the same genus, one is discordant. 19:50:00 cjo: every level of the mut seems fine 19:50:02 just some examples 19:50:08 every XL would be overkill 19:50:29 I meant every level of the mut (standard 3-tier DS system) 19:50:46 hmm, what was that idea about shorter/longer facets, though? 19:50:53 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:51:13 hangedman, what was the significance of the FHEIGHT = 15 in your shoals end vaults? 19:51:55 SamB_, I rather like the idea of a long facet (4 or 5)...perhaps these double-edge ideas might be a reasonable opportunity? 19:52:05 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 19:52:15 In any case, we wouldn't have to, clearly...we can just try a 3-level double edge facet for now. 19:52:22 nicolae-: the water ponds inside each vault makes the automatic heightmap stuff fill the vaults more readily with shallow water much earlier than I liked, and I think the results are never fully flooding the rather large caves with almost nothing but deep water 19:52:33 hm, perhaps we don't need to be dogmatic about double-edged DS mutations: just adding some we find interesting, and let players adapt 19:53:09 in other words: no need to force a double-edged one upon each DS, in particular, no need to come up with a long list right now 19:53:13 mumra: do we have facilities for vaults to be more specific about heightmap matters? 19:53:16 brb again, will have to read scrollback. my 3y/o calls. 19:53:18 dpeg: yeah, i think that would be a good approach 19:53:24 dpeg: yes, I think some could be double-edged and some not (or not more than they are already). I think monstrous sort of counts as double-edged, or form-defining if you prefer. 19:53:28 SamB_: yes you can set heightmap from vaults 19:53:35 cjo: yes, I agree 19:53:37 so, we could just add one double-edged mut to start with 19:53:42 MarvinPA: if there's anything you like, tell us :) 19:53:44 if there's just one idea 19:53:45 one more 19:53:51 tenofswords: cool, thanks 19:53:52 or one we think is good 19:53:54 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps:syntax:headers#fheight 19:54:04 personally i was sort of thinking that a guardian spirit-y one might be interesintg 19:54:21 i think the devwiki there should mention what the high and low points for tides are 19:54:25 force people to see that the effect isn't that bad anymore? :P 19:54:28 MarvinPA: yes, I like those that might have an impact on fighters and casters 19:54:33 slow/sturdy and fast/fragile we sort of already have covered with other species 19:54:37 mumra: oh, he was already talking about that ... 19:54:39 one last thing efore I walk away, monstrous seems like its treated with a mild dislike for its underpoweredness. Would like to approach that insome fashion. 19:54:41 * SamB_ should read more first 19:54:44 k, brb 19:54:46 force people to realize that gspirit is super good 19:54:47 -!- SamB_ is now known as SamB 19:54:49 but guardian spirit i think is underused but potentially strong, yeah 19:54:52 MarvinPA: sure, but it's still an adaption for your DS. 19:54:56 * SamB kept expecting to be disconnected 19:55:09 cryptic: I think monstrous should get scales, that would help (came up on the tavern already) 19:55:22 Cryp71c: not sure, there are those who swear by it 19:56:15 cjo: didn't monstrous prevent body armour at some point, and then was changed? 19:56:36 I'd like monstrous more if talons weren't strictly worse than hooves and there was another hand mutation besides claws 19:56:40 dpeg, don't recall, but it does allow body armour now. so maybe I'm undervaluing it. 19:56:44 * dpeg forgets all the history. It's been ages when doy (?) and sorear (?) and I did the first round. 19:56:50 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:57:17 nicolae-: do you know what the high/low tide points are ? 19:57:19 btw, I really like the tentacle mutation -- tentacles are well established in Crawl, and it's cool 19:57:46 cool. 19:58:03 i'm not super keen on the ones that are already used in other races 19:58:04 mumra: i asked once in here and then promptly forgot 19:58:11 MarvinPA: you're right in that fragile/fast and slow/sturdy = spriggan, naga... but is there room to include it as a twist for DS, in a slightly different form, or do you think that's too dull? 19:58:33 it could certainly work, i just prefer the idea of more unique stuff i guess 19:58:42 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:58:45 Ha, you answered while i was typing 19:58:49 :) 19:59:02 -!- RichardSimmons has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:59:17 MarvinPA: yes, you can see it like that... but I'd see it more like making the Crawl world more coherent. 19:59:46 I prefer more unique ones too, but OTOH getting hit by slow movement could be a fun curveball (if it had adequate bonuses to compensate) 20:00:01 also, e.g. the fragile/fast one above comes with wings (unlike Tengu), which fits demons well 20:00:58 according to the last time i asked, the tide goes from -18 to 25 and ilsuiw can call it up to 50 20:00:59 nicolae-: it looks like -540 .. 750 20:01:17 hm! i assume there's a division or something in there 20:01:33 I was thinking of a package deal: fragile, fast, flying, poorly fitting armour, possibly even +dex -str all as a set. Not 100% unique, but tengu can wear armour and spriggans don't fly... 20:01:36 static int LOW_TIDE = -18 * TIDE_MULTIPLIER; 20:02:02 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:13 nicolae-: yes the raw tide vaults are ignoring the tide multplier so it's -18 .. 25 20:02:28 cool, cool 20:02:52 should that be mentioned in the manual 20:03:13 http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt#l1012 20:03:34 as we speak of doubled edges: SA has some not half-bad ideas for replacing bad potions by dubious potions; I don't write on SA anymore, but I should try to copy the ideas to the wiki 20:03:55 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:04:40 tenofswords: i mean the fheight vaules associated with low and high and called tides 20:04:53 oh 20:05:10 that would be a good addition to there sure 20:05:49 Next page button doesn't show anything if there's just one item to show by Isabel 20:06:06 i'll put in on the devwiki then 20:07:28 to all: so maybe I should add to the wiki, read reactions there, then submit patches for new mutations one at a time, then people can see them & give additional feedback? 20:07:45 hmm, this is annoying: monster ddoor should probably cause a message or prompt when you attack them 20:07:54 the wiki is more of a repository than a discussion area 20:08:10 i was wondering why the hell nergalle wasn't dying and after hitting her repeatedly suddenly got "nergalle is no longer invulnerable" 20:09:41 nergalle is kind of sad in staying really weak regardless of all of the silly things she gets 20:11:11 another mutation suggestion-reckless: gains bonus to damage and spell power, but malus to skills 20:12:08 sounds like berserk 20:12:39 sounds like a bonus to damage, and a malus to damage + everything else too 20:13:24 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 20:13:47 although I guess that would depend on just how big you make the damage bonus 20:14:52 tenofswords: she had me surrounded by completely ineffectual spectral knights 20:15:45 nicolae-: i think that definitely should be mentioned if you want to add it 20:15:56 she has too many spell slots and not enough focus on bolt of draining 20:16:00 Nergalle (16o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 60 | AC/EV: 9/11 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(66) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 982 | Sp: b.draining (3d15), spectral orcs, regeneration, dispel undead (3d18), haste other, d.door | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 20:16:00 %??nergalle 20:16:29 i put it on the dvwiki, i don't have access to actually change the syntax.txt file afaik 20:18:42 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:19:04 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:07 at some point i'll merge wiki and .txt changes or make something automated (ages ago this was the idea but i don't think anything came of it or we forgot) 20:21:35 -!- cjo has left ##crawl-dev 20:25:17 * SamB wishes someone would track down that thing that makes "G<" not always work with untried stairways 20:26:43 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 20:27:13 <|amethyst> is that a problem again? 20:27:38 <|amethyst> there was a problem on branch entrances but I fixed that ages ago 20:28:48 this is for normal upstairs, I *think* it depends on whether you were auto-traveling at level generation time but I'm not sure? 20:29:35 <|amethyst> SamB: could you mantis that 20:30:08 how do I quickly check if I already did? 20:31:26 oh, it's on my view 20:31:41 (that I can check, I mean) 20:32:35 <|amethyst> SamB: I didn't see anything when I searched for G<, stairs, or unknown 20:32:51 <|amethyst> err, s/unknown/visited/ 20:33:07 -!- bitsailor_ has quit [Quit: bitsailor_] 20:34:24 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:37:55 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:41:20 hmm, what does "lv=0.1-zotdef.1" mean in a milestone? 20:44:15 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:57 |amethyst: any idea? 20:45:39 -!- dcssrubot40 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:41 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:49:56 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:50:23 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:45 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:50 hi 20:51:36 bh assembles himself! 20:52:07 <|amethyst> SamB: fields->add_field("lv", "%s", score_version.c_str()); 20:52:23 hmm 20:53:34 <|amethyst> SamB: so I guess it's to invalidate old scores 20:53:45 <|amethyst> SamB: theoretically we could use the last part to distinguish zotdef maps 20:53:53 <|amethyst> SamB: I'm not sure if sequell uses it or not 20:53:57 but of course meatsprint hasn't bumped that 20:54:37 <|amethyst> SamB: well, it wouldn't make sense for meatsprint to just bump it, because that doesn't help the fact that scores are incomparable across sprints 20:54:51 true 20:54:57 I was thinking about when they changed the scoring 21:01:09 -!- home has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:25 G< sometimes avoids untried upstairs by SamB 21:02:59 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:09:23 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:10:44 hm, didn't trog give extra piety for burning spellbooks unread? where is that now, or am I misremembering? 21:10:51 (maybe it was badwiki) 21:11:14 geekosaur: I *think* he did 21:11:32 so does that still work with spellbooks auto-iding? 21:12:56 it was pointless anyway 21:14:47 -!- doome has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:13 they told me that he didn't anymore when I asked last night 21:21:38 tenofswords: sure, it's unlikely that a troglodyte would care about a spell book 21:22:08 hmm, grinder does seem a lot more like grinder now 21:23:37 SamB: what was the change? 21:23:50 actually does af_pain 21:24:05 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:24:06 he was affected by that AF bug 21:24:26 Grinder was pretty painful when I first encountered him after that. 21:24:30 !lg . ckiller=grinder 21:24:31 14. SGrunt the Charmwright (L4 HESk), blasted by Grinder (nerve-wracking pain) on D:3 on 2013-04-12 04:27:39, with 188 points after 3007 turns and 0:06:19. 21:24:47 really? I would have expected grinder to have way more kills 21:24:54 !lg . ckiller=prince ribbit 21:24:54 No keyword 'ribbit' 21:25:00 ??prince ribbit 21:25:00 prince ribbit[1/3]: Blink frog unique. Found in the main dungeon. Nearly the same as a regular blink frog, except that he's light blue, has a human (contaminated) corpse, talks, doesn't come with 3 more blink frogs, and knows teleport self for when in trouble. Found as early as D:4. 21:25:06 !lg . ckiller=prince_ribbit 21:25:07 7. bh the Cleaver (L7 HOBe), worshipper of Trog, mangled by Prince Ribbit on D:5 on 2012-10-23 15:16:22, with 1009 points after 4244 turns and 0:03:49. 21:25:09 said af bug kind of lasted for a year 21:25:31 bh: use _ instead of 21:26:03 a statue mimic? 21:26:07 that's a new one, I think 21:26:16 Statue mimics have been around forever. 21:26:17 (I mean, I don't remember seeing that before) 21:26:27 I remember coming across them in my earliest games. 21:26:41 I wonder how much longer it'll take before some sadist actually makes altar mimics work 21:26:49 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:55 !seen edlothiol 21:26:56 I last saw edlothiol at Sat Apr 13 00:50:53 2013 UTC (1h 36m 3s ago) quitting with message 'Ping timeout: 256 seconds'. 21:27:06 tenofswords: that'll interfere with the altar planning, won't it? 21:27:09 well, complicate I mean 21:27:14 trog should allow the casting of fire storm but no other spell 21:27:34 !tell edlothiol water areas seem to cause huge lag on webtiles; are you aware of this? (particularly traversing thru water) 21:27:34 mumra: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 21:27:38 "actually make work" meant a bunch of things 21:27:55 mumra: It's only slow for water tiles in Firefox. 21:28:10 Or so I read on Reddit somewhere. 21:28:17 Havvy: shame, firefox seems faster than other browsers in all other regards 21:28:46 I would ask if water was animated GIFs or something, but then I remembered all the tiles are PNGs 21:29:04 maybe we should look into GIFs 21:29:09 no, wait ... 21:29:12 * geekosaur never noticed water tiles slowness in chrome, when he played webtiles 21:29:13 SamB: there are some tiles that are multiple PNGs :) 21:29:13 canvas 21:29:41 we should procedurally generate tiles in GLSL :) 21:29:43 bh: yeah 21:29:48 wait, what? 21:30:11 I don't think I even *get* webGL on this thing? 21:30:11 rather than repeating the same tile over and over again for a stone wall, we could write a shader 21:30:16 get a dev to fill a screen with chaos spawns in webtiles, move the cursor back and forth, see if the server doesn't fall apart 21:30:28 tenofswords: ok 21:30:30 also a shader is overkill for tiling 21:31:08 crawl in threejs ;) 21:33:06 i checked, chrome is fine, just firefox weirdness 21:34:14 !tell edlothiol it seems to just be on firefox 21:34:15 mumra: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 21:35:05 -!- Walker_ has quit [Client Quit] 21:35:14 tbh canvas is probably not the most optimal render method for webtiles, it's bad at updating large areas 21:36:17 a big grid of divs with background-image and css sprites is extremely fast because browsers are optimised heavily for that 21:36:32 and you could just scroll the div around within a viewport instead of updating every tile as the player moves 21:37:33 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:40:04 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:26 and then we could use modern technologies like animated GIF, too! 21:42:01 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:06 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:42:31 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:44:34 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:52 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 21:48:21 Yunor the Executioner (L11 TrFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1177 failed on turn 308. (D) 21:49:16 -!- BlackSheep_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:54 -!- rzimodnar has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:50:02 -!- randomizr is now known as rzimodnar 21:55:05 man, the game decided to get serious on D:14 21:55:23 fire crab nearly killed me, barely got away alive and ran into kirke ... now here's aizul 21:57:14 -!- Isasaur has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:57:26 cough, ##crawl 21:58:57 SGrunt (L5 TrSk) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 592 failed. (D:3) 21:59:01 ... 21:59:04 What did I do? 21:59:12 !log . crash -log 21:59:12 No keyword 'crash' 21:59:15 !lm . crash -log 21:59:16 4. SGrunt, XL5 TrSk, T:2507 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/SGrunt/crash-SGrunt-20130413-025856.txt 22:00:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 22:03:53 -!- tenofswords has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:05:28 -!- Xelf is now known as G-Flex 22:06:41 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:56 So, I'm working on a patch for amnesia scrolls. Should ESC from the spell menu immediately cancel the scroll or drop you back to main view with a message prompt? (a la enchant armour) 22:07:21 the second one 22:07:33 "Really cancel and waste the scroll?" 22:07:39 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-357-g425ea37 22:07:58 or wait, would this waste it? 22:08:39 no, doesn't waste it 22:09:00 then... well, it should do whatever EA does probably 22:12:39 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:43 -!- Utis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:44 -!- dcssrubot874 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:39 -!- rossi_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:19:12 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:21:01 <|amethyst> BlackSheep_: it should waste it if the scroll was unknown 22:21:25 <|amethyst> BlackSheep_: so needs a prompt in that case, but not the other 22:22:19 it does if the scroll was unknown 22:22:35 ontoclasm: we were just discussing in ##crawl that maybe lamia doesn't look distinctive enough, what do you think? 22:22:35 the no spells case should remain unchanged 22:22:50 <|amethyst> well, I guess consistency with enchant armour makes sense 22:23:03 ontoclasm: this is after i got killed by her because i didn't even notice she was anything other than a standard naga until it was too late 22:23:31 well, not *strictly* too late, but i didn't quite realise i was about to get blasted for 81hp by an iood 22:25:00 BlackSheep_: if it's ided then you should be able to cancel it without wasting it 22:25:15 it's only when scrolls are unided that you need the cancellation prompt 22:25:33 Webtiles, I guess? :P 22:25:48 (Since local writing the names of uniques above their heads makes them kind of hard to miss) 22:26:07 DracoOmega: yeah, although mikee_ was saying her console colour maybe isn't different enough either 22:26:29 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:26:42 Hm, it's printing a message when you press an unassigned letter, but doesn't display it until I hit Esc 22:26:53 the thing is other uniques you spot on sight without the name, but lamia kind of has nothing particularly distinguishing to make you go "ooh, that looks extra dangerous" 22:27:07 especially not like "as dangerous as mennas why am i still standing here" 22:29:19 Lamia's colour is almost identical to a guardian serpent's which is particularly annoying since she shows up with a few of them 22:29:26 on console 22:31:51 -!- BlackSheep_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32:02 <|amethyst> greater nagas you mean? You should chnge your terminal's colours to distinguish magenta from lightmagenta 22:32:27 <|amethyst> there are other places the difference is important (tarantellas versus orb spiders for example) 22:32:34 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 22:32:52 |amethyst: yes, I meant greater naga, sorry. 22:33:03 I was just seconding what mumra said 22:37:35 |amethyst: thing is if you're in spider then you're looking out for tarantellas and orb spiders, but this is the first time i encountered lamia and she really doesn't look that special compared to other nagas (in tiles) 22:38:08 I think the tile was a placeholder, anyway 22:38:33 Like, didn't Grunt actually make them? 22:38:53 he probably did it on purpose :P 22:39:54 <|amethyst> mumra: FR: make all uniques elemental-coloured 22:40:06 <|amethyst> ETC_SIGMUND 22:40:11 hehe, good plan 22:40:59 <|amethyst> and make hell/pan lords two cells high :) 22:41:27 <|amethyst> (not real grid cells, just graphically like in tiles) 22:42:37 but then lamia could hide behind them ... 22:46:45 when are we reducing exit stairs in branches from 3 to 1? 22:48:04 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [] 22:50:03 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:50:07 kilobyte started also writing a patch for it but was getting vetos in zot:1 22:50:46 then i didn't hear anything else 22:51:44 ... so these Zot:1 levels probably shouldn't have been allowed in the first place? 22:52:02 ... or Zot connectivity check should expect a bit of digging? 22:52:16 (And we shouldn't kill the Dig spell) 22:52:25 no not that sort of veto 22:52:37 what kind of veto? 22:52:37 -!- Boyo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:52:57 he was getting "failed to ensure interlevel connectivity" which means the game was having a drama over the number of stairs 22:53:24 wait, are there normally 3 stairways on the outside too, then? 22:53:41 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:54:03 no not any more 22:55:17 but he might have implemented the patch differently to me, i think because i removed the stairs after all the vetos maybe that's why mine worked 22:55:19 so these other exits wouldn't have been reachable from outside ANYWAY and crawl still insists on them? 22:55:20 and nothing to do with zot 22:55:40 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:40 i don't know the details of his implementation so i have no idea 22:55:46 probably it's better to remove them first 22:57:59 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-358-gbd2ac2f: Add formatting fix. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bd2ac2f56304 22:58:01 well, it seemed logical to me to do it in fixup_branch_stairs because that's where they were already getting processed 22:58:22 but you could result in a disconnected level this way if the layout produces multiple zones 22:58:24 * SamB wishes Cheibriados would give an idea what files were touched ... 22:58:31 mumra: yeah, that's why 22:58:44 Incidentally, should we actually try to set some rough ETA for 0.12? Or at least try to get some things in motion for tournament setup and date selection and such? 22:59:49 hmm, april fools idea: announce the tournament after it's "already over" 23:00:11 say it happened during the beta 23:00:54 It shouldn't be *that* hard to get tops of branches to only generate one exit... 23:02:36 mumra: anyway, if the levels are vetoed for lack of interlevel connectivity with the second and third exits removed, either the interlevel connectivity check is full of shit or the interlevel connectivity is *already broken*, no? 23:03:15 SamB: i don't know the details of kilobyte's implementation so i can't possibly comment on why it was happening 23:03:26 with my implementation i didn't get that problem, but i didn't test on Zot:1 23:03:29 that's all i knwo 23:03:59 well, suppose he implemented it by simply zapping exits 2 and 3 23:04:03 before vetoes 23:04:38 i have no idea without testing what that would do, and to test i would basically have to implement that 23:04:50 wouldn't this give the connectivity check a more accurate view of things anyway? 23:05:01 since those exits are actually one-way only 23:05:24 the interlevel connectivity check doesn't actually look at other levels 23:06:08 yes, but it seems like a bad sign if removing those exits makes it fail, since I really don't think it should count them in the FIRST place 23:06:40 i assume it's the check that's buggy since it's very rare to get layouts with disconnects that don't fail the zones check anyway 23:07:17 yeah, I did offer the possibility that the check was full of shit earlier 23:08:03 oh, NOW I find a cursed rod 23:08:09 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:08:09 in my test game 23:08:19 it was one of the ones that didn't fit in inventory before ... 23:09:02 Well, they can BECOME cursed, anyway 23:09:22 I suspect it generated that way 23:09:25 * Grunt points all around, then curses. 23:09:30 T - a cursed +0 rod of inaccuracy (14/14) 23:09:31 Oh, sure 23:10:07 I guess I really better fix this, then, since that kind of trap isn't going to work right as things are 23:10:16 mumra, here's a conundrum for you re this change: 23:10:29 Do we count D as a branch for the purpose of determining how many dungeon exits there are? 23:10:37 we decided "no" 23:10:55 Whose to say those 3 exits don't exit to 3 seperate places, anyway? 23:10:56 since you can't come back from Overworld anyway 23:10:59 Since we never see 23:11:02 i don't quite understand the question ... 23:11:06 As in: 23:11:13 Does D:1 place only one dungeon exit, or multiple dungeon exits? 23:11:32 well, since you can't come back it's not confusing, so three is fine 23:11:34 ah right 23:12:01 one thing is ask is: why does D _need_ 3 exits? 23:12:33 <|amethyst> mumra: so we don't have to rewrite all the entry vaults? :/ 23:12:35 obviously because you must be about to die at that point ;-P 23:12:52 and 'cause the entry vaults look nice and stuff 23:13:06 |amethyst: we don't actually have to rewrite them, the patch i implemented would just randomly pick one exit and delete the other two 23:13:26 and this would work for any branch entry vaults 23:13:27 that isn't a very aesthetically pleasing way to go 23:14:15 Even aside from aesthetics, I don't see any reason there is a benefit to having only 1 exit 23:14:19 i don't think it would make that much difference 23:14:22 So I am not sure why it needs to change 23:14:56 The only reason it's somewhat iffy for branches is that all 3 exits go to the same entrance, but this isn't the case on D:1 23:14:57 DracoOmega: well it just means all branches work in a consistent way and we don't need a special case for D 23:15:08 Well, D:1 is already a special case in several ways 23:15:18 Since you can never actually take those stairs without ending the game 23:15:29 also zotdef might need those stairs 23:15:56 one thing that is gained is making the orb run ever-so-slightly harder 23:15:59 <|amethyst> also, portal branches need multiple exits (but I imagine you're doing only stairs) 23:16:06 since if the exit is blocked by a pan lord you can't just go to another 23:16:20 |amethyst: portal branches were excluded yes 23:16:25 mumra: that's not a good sell with me 23:16:30 http://sprunge.us/QJVK 23:16:38 This is kind of primitive, but it gets the job done. 23:17:13 Zot:1 generates fine, as do other branch heads. 23:17:36 I expect the major difference between this and whatever you wrote and whatever 1kb wrote is adjusting the connectivity checks. :) 23:18:27 Grunt: that's basically how i did it, i had some extra logic to randomly pick a stair instead of just taking DNGN_STONE_STAIRS_I, but yeah it worked for me 23:18:38 i guess kilobyte did it earlier in the process, before the vetos 23:18:46 and the vetos are hardcoded to check for 3 stairs always 23:18:50 -!- bitsailor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:18:50 Grunt: one issue, it checks the branch against D instead of checking for the root branch 23:18:56 SamB: good point. 23:18:58 -!- Jdc1197 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:05 -!- bitsailor_ has quit [Changing host] 23:19:05 -!- bitsailor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:20:17 Grunt: you have a redundant check, you don't need to do !player_in_branch in _at_top_of_branch, since you check for root branch on setgrd 23:20:33 <_< 23:20:33 oh wait no 23:20:37 i see what you did there 23:20:43 Yunor the Slayer (L15 MiFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 592 failed on turn 1285. (D) 23:23:06 -!- DrPraetor|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:26:12 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:26:44 Yunor the Conqueror (L17 MiFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2567 failed on turn 1804. (D) 23:26:49 ... 23:26:54 !lm yunor crash -log 23:26:55 21. Yunor, XL27 HOPr, T:77268 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Yunor/crash-Yunor-20130406-234715.txt 23:27:01 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:27:25 Er. 23:27:27 !lm yunor crash sprint -log 23:27:28 9. Yunor, XL17 MiFi, T:1804 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Yunor/crash-Yunor-20130413-042643.txt 23:30:16 -!- faz has quit [] 23:37:25 mumra: yeah, i guess i could make a new lamia 23:37:43 she needs a crazy hat 23:38:51 Do all uniques need to have crazy hats now? 23:38:52 :b 23:39:01 how can you even ask that 23:39:12 ha stf2 taught you nothing 23:39:22 We're not a hat simulator. 23:39:22 :D 23:41:49 maybe she could have padme's giant tire haircut from episode 1 23:43:22 Hahaha. 23:43:45 Clearly, find the most outrageous hairdo you can effectively represent in a tile. 23:44:01 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 23:44:03 Have her use a tall tile just to capture the hair. 23:44:07 hehe 23:44:29 if this happens, i will feel like my death was not in vain 23:44:42 Grunt: one entire tile for the hair i think 23:44:47 mumra: sure!!! 23:45:49 -!- dcssrubot492 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:02 You see here: Lamia's glorious hairstyle 23:46:14 :D 23:46:17 Grunt: so are you gonna commit your patch somewhere? 23:46:18 it can be an unrand 23:46:34 SamB: I want to figure out what kilobyte is doing first. 23:46:53 maybe you should !tell him about your patch 23:48:35 !tell kilobyte http://sprunge.us/QJVK - preliminary attempt at getting only one branch exit to place (needs a couple of tweaks like using root branch consistently), but e.g. Zot:1 works properly. Heard you were working on this, but Zot:1 wasn't working for you for some reason? 23:48:35 Grunt: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 23:49:34 cue jokes about "how many crawl devs does it take to remove two branch stairs" 23:49:44 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 23:49:56 Are we up to 5? 23:50:22 Who's the fifth? 23:50:35 i can do it 23:50:40 just set the other two to have no tile 23:50:44 hah 23:50:46 ...mumra, kilobyte, SamB, DracoOmega(?), me? 23:50:49 bug: fixed 23:50:58 !tell dpeg good god, the "damage taken is split between adjacent enemes" sounds like a balance nightmare :P I like the concept, undoubtedl. 23:50:59 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 23:50:59 did I actually do anything? 23:51:06 I'm not sure : 23:51:07 :b 23:51:14 That's why I'm asking! 23:51:28 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:37 it's got so confusing, even SamB doesn't know whether he's submitted a patch or not 23:51:46 You are too confused! 23:51:59 I did not make a patch, I know that much 23:51:59 ??famous last messages[2 23:52:00 famous last messages[2/13]: You are too confused! 23:52:08 ... 23:52:45 ontoclasm: btw. did you see this? https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6786 (forest fire) 23:52:50 oh 23:52:51 yeah 23:52:56 i keep forgetting that 23:53:40 well, it's not exactly the biggest issue ever :) 23:54:02 I dunno, somebody must have a burning desire to fix it. 23:54:19 bdum tshh 23:54:21 also, no, google, the headdress i want is indian-the-subcontinent, not indian-native-american 23:55:01 mumra, idle question. 23:55:06 Tune into Tiran's game on cszo. 23:55:09 Is this one of your layouts? 23:55:31 yes 23:55:32 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:55:37 I thought so. 23:55:43 I've been seeing it suspiciously often recently. :) 23:55:45 Grunt: definitely 23:55:49 ah 23:55:56 nice-looking layout 23:55:56 maybe it needs a lower weight 23:56:06 although it's supposed to have more variation which i haven't implemented yet 23:56:17 It's really samey right now, yes. 23:56:18 !tell cjo finally finished the tavern thread...some great suggestions. Play around with one of the simpler implementable mutations and use git to create a patch for it (if you're unfamiliar with git, I recommend checking out the dev wiki's page on it and all the numerous guides on the web) and put it up on mantis. 23:56:18 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 23:56:46 !tell cjo Thanks for your interest, once you get a mutation implemented and tested, use git to create a patch and put it on mantis. 23:56:46 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let cjo know. 23:57:10 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:57:45 I had a bad idea: an anti-demonspawn race. You get worse and worse mutations as you increase in level 23:58:10 Grunt: although, i think it's good if some layouts are fairly plain. it came up in my game and i didn't notice til the end when i looked at the minimap. 23:58:25 bh: that race would be a badrace 23:58:31 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:32 all its chars would be badchars 23:58:33 ??badrace 23:58:34 mummy[3/7]: Mummy PCs do not need to eat food to survive. They also resist necromantic and cold attacks, are immune to poison, but vulnerable to fire. Also, they get permanent necro magic enhancers at xl13 and 26. Lastly, they cannot drink potions, change form or go berserk. According to syrion, PC mummies use bladders for firing blowguns. 23:58:55 it was just exploring rooms and corridors and looking at the grid in front of me, but i realised it had been a pretty fun level nonetheless. 23:58:59 SamB: give it great apts and it would still be awful? 23:59:09 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 23:59:10 bh: well, okay, maybe not 23:59:12 and actually some of the more complicated layouts that look nicer are a bit painstaking to explore every corner 23:59:18 mutant mountain dwarves 23:59:18 mumra: I can usually tell very early when I'm getting that layout. :b 23:59:33 That reminds me of another thing, actually. 23:59:55 Your, uh, I don't remember what it's called, but the one sort of set up like an ant colony layout.