00:00:27 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-b1-84-ga39c209 00:00:27 merfogh 00:01:44 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-298-g4aa3aa2 (34) 00:03:44 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-298-g4aa3aa2 (34) 00:05:37 -!- ISAIAH_ has quit [Client Quit] 00:06:55 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 00:07:34 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:35 is it true that slaying doesnt stack? 00:07:43 or stacks with diminishing returns? 00:08:25 no 00:08:28 so +3 hat +5 armour +7 ring, +8 other ring... id really get +23? 00:08:33 yes 00:08:44 which is worth.... +d23 to damage? 00:08:51 vaguely 00:08:53 -!- dcssrubot841 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:30 -!- afadfadfs has quit [Client Quit] 00:10:29 same with ranged or does it get halved, as ive heard? 00:11:30 -!- Guest54716 has quit [Client Quit] 00:13:50 -!- ophanim has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:14:50 -!- rzimodnar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:15:29 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:15:56 -!- dcssrubot400 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:19:15 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:36 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-298-g4aa3aa2 00:20:52 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:21:54 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:13 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:47 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:08 -!- inspector071 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:53 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 00:40:18 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:44:23 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:44:33 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:47:01 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:39 -!- Vizer__ has quit [Quit: bye] 00:50:13 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:56 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:15 !lg * won beogh xl>5 00:53:16 126. NumiTroll the Executioner (L27 HOPr), worshipper of Beogh, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-04-08 19:30:10, with 1916874 points after 49721 turns and 7:36:21. 00:53:20 !lg * beogh xl>5 00:53:21 8451. bh the Cleaver (L9 HOPr), worshipper of Beogh, hit from afar by a wight (orcish club) on D:7 on 2013-04-10 05:51:35, with 2155 points after 7746 turns and 0:23:55. 00:53:24 !lg * beogh xl>10 00:53:25 2334. friendlybee the Severer (L15 HOPr), worshipper of Beogh, demolished by an orc warrior (a +0,+2 orcish vampiric hand axe) on D:16 on 2013-04-09 20:13:47, with 64771 points after 26337 turns and 1:16:28. 00:54:02 -!- eb has quit [] 00:56:01 70% attrition 00:56:04 that hurts 00:58:48 -!- tophat_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:59:12 he's still a cruddy god 01:00:30 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:55 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:04 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:06:29 morning 01:06:41 bh: i merged those abyss layouts 01:06:49 ! 01:06:50 :-D 01:06:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:25 it could still be improved quite a lot but it seems pretty interesting already so i thought why not 01:09:32 -!- bitsailor_ has quit [Quit: bitsailor_] 01:16:32 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 01:16:54 -!- rast_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:55 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:04 -!- pkoi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:17:09 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:17:10 -!- rast_ is now known as rast 01:28:24 -!- JORDEN has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:32 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:34:59 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:37:03 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:45 -!- substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:39:02 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:55:18 -!- Staplefun has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:58:00 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:12 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:33 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:30 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:12:58 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:17:29 -!- Sabaki has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:17:52 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: abc] 02:21:19 -!- FaMott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:23:38 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:55 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:28:36 -!- PsyMar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:32 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 02:35:07 -!- Gibbs has quit [] 02:46:44 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:47:46 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0a2/20130408004015]] 02:57:25 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:19 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04:02 -!- Foophy has quit [] 03:15:25 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:29 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:36 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 03:23:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:22 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:35:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:36:34 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:07 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:41:20 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:04 -!- Nareusm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:53:09 -!- mattington has quit [Client Quit] 04:02:39 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 04:09:46 -!- absolutego has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:17:53 -!- nonethousand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:37 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:24:18 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:24:53 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:38:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:49:15 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:57:08 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:04:13 -!- Ragnor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:50 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 05:20:24 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 05:20:28 -!- ktgrey has quit [] 05:26:04 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:26:04 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:50 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:59:08 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:03 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:00:42 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:06 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:11:18 -!- Mrmini231 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:23:04 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:48 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:33:08 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:22 Morning 06:33:23 -!- SkaryMonk1 has left ##crawl-dev 06:33:31 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:39 hi 06:38:57 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-299-g2069540: Attempting to improve the interference layout 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 65+ 19-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=206954072b0a 06:38:57 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-300-g75b0b2a: Add some new procedural transforms 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 52+ 14-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=75b0b2adfe0f 06:38:57 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-301-gf3d5098: Add a new Zot / Tar layout 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 76+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f3d509886bfb 06:42:54 mumra: what would you say about listing layouts on the vaults dump? 06:44:16 perhaps even as a separate dump type (that includes other vaults, so they're together) 06:46:42 aren't they listed already? 06:47:49 that would certainly make sense (does it say how many time each vault came up as well?) 06:49:24 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:50:35 also, is there a mapstat option to generate vault / layout statistics? would be pretty useful for balancing weights at this stage 06:51:00 mumra: where are they? 06:51:33 I mean # and morgues, not &^E 06:52:08 you mean where are they listed? sorry, that was more of a rhetorical question than meaning to claim they are already listed 06:52:20 well, just morgues and not #, surely 06:55:30 are morgues supposed to list vaults normally? i don't see any at all in one i just generated 06:57:17 you need dump_order += vaults 07:03:31 ok 07:06:48 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:59 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:10:00 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 07:11:17 idea 1: just remove no_dump (set on layouts among others). idea 2: add dump_order += vaults_layouts, to have both 07:12:21 layouts tend to be less interesting than vaults for mere spoiled players, but a few of us care about them 07:16:43 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:16:43 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:05 well previously the layout list would have been completely predictable 99% of the time based on what branches were cleared 07:17:14 not it's not so simple 07:17:18 s/not/now 07:24:27 03Cryp71c 07* 0.13-a0-302-g4c8eed5: Mantis 6874: Mutation message for temp mutations becomming permanent 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4c8eed5befac 07:30:38 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33:00 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:02 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:28 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:52 -!- dcssrubot692 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:45 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:47:26 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:00:11 -!- Emolga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:15:02 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:16:06 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:17:49 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:22:24 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:06 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:46 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:46 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:28:32 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:41 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:39:48 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:50 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:48 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdou] 08:46:00 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.] 08:54:48 -!- dosman711 is now known as dosman|meeting 08:56:40 -!- Escalator has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:23 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:00:41 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:03:31 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:08:57 -!- dcssrubot352 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:01 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:11 -!- substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:11:53 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:12:39 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:18:23 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:18:23 -!- Xomination has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:18:48 -!- Arivia has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:18:48 -!- Wolfram has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:19:19 -!- bitsailor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:54 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:23:48 -!- bitsailor_ has quit [Client Quit] 09:26:26 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:57 -!- dcssrubot653 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:11 -!- dcssrubot900 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:15 -!- the_glow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:26 -!- ystael has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:34 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 09:36:29 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:39:51 -!- substitute has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:46:50 -!- substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:53:57 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:57:15 -!- Wehk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:52 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:10 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:06:41 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:08:46 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:24 -!- NekoRex has quit [Quit: "All the vain and ignorant will look up and shout 'Save us!', and I'll look down and whisper... 'Nyo.'"] 10:25:33 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:32:58 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:48 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:47 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20121208085021]] 10:42:39 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:45:35 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 10:46:09 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:47:25 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:06 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:54:09 -!- Stathol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:57:48 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:57:57 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:58 -!- madreisz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:58:07 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 10:58:21 -!- dcssrubot536 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:01 -!- Nibbs has quit [Client Quit] 11:01:41 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:24 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:02:54 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:07 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:05:46 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:07:26 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08:49 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:20 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:12 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:03 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: absolutego] 11:29:55 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:30:16 -!- smeea has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:39:18 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:06 -!- dcssrubot205 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:42:04 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:05 -!- dosman|meeting is now known as dosman711 11:44:01 -!- Zermako has quit [] 11:44:02 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:48:38 -!- r is now known as Guest98686 11:51:52 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:03 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:57:14 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 12:01:18 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:41 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:31 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11.2-13-g9771293 12:07:55 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:31 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10:49 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-302-g4c8eed5 (34) 12:14:49 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:33 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:18:01 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:29 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:11 -!- Vidiny has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:41 mumra: pong 12:26:16 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:11 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:16 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:37:33 -!- superc has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:37:57 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-303-g866b896: Show how much gold is used up by the Alchemist card 10(19 hours ago, 1 file, 20+ 26-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=866b896b960a 12:37:57 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-304-g7063a1c: Identify guaranteed loot in an altar vault, reduce weight 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7063a1c5c42e 12:37:57 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-305-g3787843: Fix typo in Okawaru arena vault 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=378784300ff3 12:37:57 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-306-g978f74a: Move okawaru_arena.des from variable to altar 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 181+ 181-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=978f74a07115 12:38:23 -!- Guest98686 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:38:23 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:39:38 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:03 -!- superc_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:53 -!- AngelicHorsey has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:46:24 -!- Utis has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:06 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 12:48:37 -!- msn is now known as Guest79050 12:50:03 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:08 -!- madreisz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:07:58 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:43 hi Grunt 13:09:04 Hi mumra. 13:09:25 how's it going? 13:09:30 Okay. 13:09:55 I was just looking at primary/mini-vault dummy weightings and noticed that we still have primary and minivault placement disabled for Vaults. 13:10:04 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:13 I remembered some previous commentary from you that your layout should be able to handle placing those. 13:10:16 Thoughts? 13:11:01 -!- dcssrubot409 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:13 well it *should* just be ok to give them weights now since important parts of the Vaults layout are protected with MMT_VAULT 13:11:29 rather than introducing special handling into Lua for placing stuff that elsewhere is placed by the dungeon builder 13:11:43 although if things still place badly, that's a route i could go down 13:12:23 aren't primary vaults supposed to place before the layout kicks in? 13:12:28 -!- Lasse- has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:12:58 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:13:52 yes sorry missed "primary" 13:14:21 i can't remember now if it works for the current version of V but at some point i added handling for primary vaults 13:14:27 but it might need the new version 13:15:05 are you giving these version numbers? 13:15:09 it might be a good idea 13:15:45 yes the new one is v3 13:15:53 I mean as opposed to tacking on "new" every time 13:16:06 yes it's hyper^3 13:16:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:16:21 i stopped with the newnewnewnew a while back :P 13:16:35 newnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnewnew[...]newvaults! 13:17:28 to be honest the final version is just "layouts" since it's not really a separate thing any more 13:18:41 and i do really need to finish it, i just keep getting distracted by finding more ways to play with worley noise 13:19:07 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:19:32 added a new zot/tar layout today that started off as an accident but it's one of my favourite 13:19:38 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:19:41 cathedral_of_symmetry 13:19:57 I was unimpressed by the way you described it, but it *looks* really cool. 13:20:29 unimpressed by the name or the comments ? :P 13:20:30 -!- Lyfon has quit [Quit: For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.] 13:20:41 The comments. 13:21:25 it was kind of hard to describe except in a purely algorithmic way 13:22:38 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:50 it sort of looks like paper doll chains, but like really twisted evil paper dolls and faces 13:23:27 demonic!!! 13:23:31 and/or abyssal <_< 13:24:10 hehe 13:24:28 i should probably use it in pan as well 13:24:41 mumra: did you see ##crawl a couple of seconds ago? 13:24:53 We just saw an Orc:4 layout with an isolated upstair. 13:25:06 impossible! :P 13:26:03 can we do anything to fix that up, or is it not needed? 13:26:16 (I mean, in the game in question) 13:29:02 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29:08 SamB: not needed, he had digging 13:36:18 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:37:08 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38:49 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:22 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:29 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 13:44:13 -!- tcjsavannah_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:46:13 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:57 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-311-ga7e0dc8 (34) 13:49:36 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:52:28 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:55 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 13:53:23 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:53:24 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:53:52 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-307-g2e0024e: Fix an issue with Simplex noise not liking negative input space 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2e0024e84919 13:53:52 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-308-gb00dbe5: Complex procedural: rays 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 17+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b00dbe58b29f 13:53:52 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-309-ga971160: Fix up Catacombs layout and enable it for Crypt/Tar 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 53+ 14-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a97116029e50 13:53:52 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-310-g9b0260e: Unbreak Orc:4 zone filling 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9b0260e12bb7 13:53:52 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-311-ga7e0dc8: Perform tree surgery in Crypt 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 19+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a7e0dc8ad4f4 13:54:38 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:38 -!- madreisz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:38 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:57:10 -!- Blade-_ is now known as Blade- 13:58:29 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:58:32 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:01 mumra: layout_catacombs looks pretty neat :) 14:00:54 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:40 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-311-ga7e0dc8 (34) 14:02:32 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:03:41 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:07 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:10 Grunt: cool :) it's basically that zot one inverted 14:05:33 And now I'm pondering another Crypt ending that's not an encompass vault. 14:05:48 Maybe I should revive that serial vault idea I had a while back. 14:06:16 ah, interesting 14:07:19 I still think it's kind of a gimmicky idea, though. 14:07:39 what is it? 14:07:48 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:17 Well, it's one slightly larger primary vault and five smaller minivaults; you have to visit each of the minivaults (and kill one of the residents) before the primary vault opens up. 14:08:23 -!- Guest79050 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:09:00 (personally i think "gimmicky" is overused as an argument against stuff, having a gimmick can often be a positive thing, and masses of things in crawl are gimmicks anyway...) 14:10:15 i like that idea; i think if it was a rune branch there were be a complaint about it screwing with stealthy characters, but for a purely loot area it's probably not as bad 14:10:24 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:36 maybe you could have a wall switch guarded by each of the semi-bosses 14:10:44 so if someone wants to go invisible and sneak through there's still a way 14:11:02 didn't somebody already implement wall switches but they haven't been used for anything yet? 14:11:20 I... don't think so...? 14:11:35 hmm, i'm sure i remember *something* about that, maybe it was just a tile 14:11:54 the sourec talks about wall switches 14:12:52 searching the source for "switch" is not very helpful 14:12:59 mumra: really??? 14:13:02 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:13:09 Grunt: crazy i know !! 14:13:23 -!- Isaiah_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:27 Oh, here's the old WIP I had. 14:13:30 http://sprunge.us/UTdd 14:13:42 (I really hate the name and I'm probably going to redesign the minivaults completely.) 14:14:12 hexahex is kind of classic tho ;) 14:14:30 ...shh :) 14:14:40 hehe 14:15:38 but yeah i do like the principle, i know some people might not, but it just adds some of that kind of "quest" vibe without going overboard 14:15:55 beh, this should be automated, and turned into layouts 14:16:06 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:16:13 I was about to say, fr: hexahex layout :b 14:16:36 I mean, maps could be generated on a hex grid then rendered on squares 14:17:01 like you do, using 2x1 slabs, with every second row shifted by 1 14:18:12 or possibly sometimes 2x2 14:18:25 mumra: get to work! 14:19:04 years ago there was a talk about radial ones, too: generated on a triangle with wrap-around, then rendered onto squares 14:19:10 polearm reaching is inconsistent by sim 14:19:38 not as easy to avoid corridors having inintended passages though 14:19:52 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:22:28 Grunt: I fail to see what the point of lua scripts in these vaults are 14:22:51 To be overly gimmicky? 14:23:00 ...yes... 14:23:14 (that's one of the *first* things I said about this, that I thought it was too gimmicky :b) 14:23:29 I like it 14:23:35 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:23:38 I looked at the vaults first without noticing the nasty gimmick 14:25:03 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:19 I actually like the general concept of the locks, personally, assuming it can be conveyed intuitively 14:26:10 there's already a vault that does this 14:26:25 st_: yeah, that's a problem too 14:26:30 which kind of breaks sometimes but 14:26:39 that too :p 14:26:54 important note: i already have a hexagon generator :P 14:27:20 there are three problems here: 1. gimmickness, 2. hard to convey such "quests" to the player, 3. they invariably cause bugs 14:28:27 Well, it would work better if these sorts of map interactions weren't one-offs, but rather more pervasive elements incorperated into the game (not that I am suggesting they should be in Crawl! I just mean in general) 14:29:03 4. spoilers 14:29:49 I am not sure it counts as spoily if the game essentially TELLS you the mechanic 14:30:57 also doesn't matter unless it's something that creates an ambush say... knowing what it coming in this hex one doesn't give you an advantage (more than knowing normal vault stuff, like monsters) 14:31:11 and in terms of gimmicks, this is not offensive at all 14:31:18 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:19 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:23 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:42 I think indicator lights might be a good way of conveying the idea? 14:32:03 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:32:04 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 14:32:44 I think killing things and hitting switches is a very natural thing for the game to have 14:32:53 * kilobyte doesn't think Crawl, or roguelikes in general, fit quests well. 14:32:55 can vaults supply text that will be shown by "x"? 14:33:39 SamB: always a source of bugs 14:33:49 kilobyte: is it that much different from a some wizlabs and stuff? 14:33:52 Well, you can modify feature descriptions 14:33:55 we removed a lot (portal_desc), there's still some to remove 14:34:01 -!- Blade-_ is now known as Blade- 14:34:03 And lots of places do this 14:34:10 set_feature_name _mostly_ works but still has bugs 14:34:48 I don't think "we might screw it up at first" is a very good reason not to do a thing 14:35:40 (maybe make it scale with depth and place it early to start with?) 14:36:02 it looks considerably less spoilery and gimmicky than vaults where you walk in and then they trap you and throw monsters at you, at least 14:36:05 st_: you mean Doroklohe's gimmick? Seems not a good thing for playability: you sit on your ass while doing nothing, can dig some tombs if you're spoiled, then have a fight without prior warning. 14:36:32 and those exist (not that i particularly think they should) 14:36:51 MarvinPA: some of them give warning before doing this 14:37:22 -!- spriseris has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0/20130326150557]] 14:37:28 well that doesn't make them any less spoilery 14:37:32 at least, I've seen one that looked like it was going to do this but decided against participating 14:37:51 SamB: oh? 14:38:59 I think it was okawaru_arena 14:39:27 Certainly having parts of the level open after the player does stuff (and not in an ambush sense) doesn't really seem much more spoiley than exploration normally is, provided the messages are clear 14:40:12 right 14:40:31 -!- Yen_ is now known as Netmonmatt 14:41:05 -!- dcssrubot244 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:42 bugs is a legitimate complaint, I admit 14:41:56 Really, renaming the doors that will later open with a relevant name and description would take care of a lot of the intuitiveness of this kind of serial vault on its own, I think 14:41:58 anyway, if Grunt's gimmick can be telegraphed as clearly, then it will probably work okay? 14:42:25 it'd still be complexity for complexity's sake 14:42:42 for the sake of FUN 14:42:56 in this instance, but this idea could be turned into a sprint or portal and fleshed out more 14:43:19 complexity can be good if it adds meaningful gameplay decisions. Having to re-visit an explored part of the level for no apparent reason doesn't seem to be one. 14:43:50 Well, the meaningful gameplay comes from being required to explore and clear particular set challenges before other ones become available, presumably 14:43:59 well, that's why we'd want each of the subvaults to give at least a decent hint about its role 14:44:10 sense of progression 14:44:31 Like, a treasury (perhaps even with visible items!) that requires seeking out and defeating a few specific themed encounters 14:44:32 unless you meant if you found the hoard or whatever first 14:44:41 or, another example: plants that turn into oklobs. Adds a new one-off mechanics, and what's the gameplay effect? The player has to wait doing nothing for a couple of turns then you are in the same situation as if the complexity wouldn't be there. 14:44:47 yes, visible hoard is a good plan 14:44:56 kilobyte: I am not sure that example is really comparable to this one 14:45:03 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:45:06 kilobyte: yeah, that just sounds spoilery 14:45:14 and I did not enjoy that vault 14:45:14 That one really does seem a little pointless in general 14:45:16 that's another annoying spoilery trap vault, yes 14:45:25 people mostly go and clear every level anyway 14:45:55 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 14:46:02 what is the point of requiring "seeking out and defeating a few specific themed encounters" if they would do that anyway? 14:46:18 I suppose a large part of it is flavor 14:46:36 elliptic: so, you're saying we should skip the loot then? 14:46:42 what's the point of having multiple levels and branches to explore; why not just a room where monsters keep coming at you? 14:46:42 and the switches? 14:47:01 mumra: that's called zotdef 14:47:08 it's really deadly 14:47:33 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:47:52 mumra: branches give interesting decisions (what order to do things in, whether to retreat from one branch and work on another one 14:48:15 I don't see how this type of vault does anything like that 14:48:24 so does grunt's vault: which order to do the rooms in 14:48:32 why does the order matter 14:48:33 mumra: dat/descript/features.txt: No description for feature 'A petrified tree' 14:48:34 hmm, maybe we could make it like megaman 14:48:47 elliptic: that is this specific vault, not the general idea 14:48:56 kilobyte: huh, that code shouldn't even be running 14:49:44 mumra: looking at the set_feature_name problem, I see there's just one vault linked to every square, zero for layout ones 14:49:46 st_: it might be possible to improve it, sure... especially in a sprint or portal vault 14:49:59 but I really don't like this sort of thing as a vault to scatter around a random D level 14:50:10 I could agree 14:50:17 elliptic: it's a crypt branch end isn't it? 14:51:07 kilobyte: were you testing the layout in tar when you got that error? i didn't add the description yet 14:51:21 mumra: well, I mainly meant that the rest of the level is normal stuff 14:51:39 it would be easier to make this sort of thing interesting in an actual encompass vault, I'd think 14:51:47 mumra: no, checking db_lint 14:52:08 -!- Silruio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:52:53 the point is that "go and explore a regular level for X" is not much of a quest 14:53:56 so so the only thing it does is having to do another go to find the loot 14:54:35 possibly hinted by messages and thus obvious, but still 14:55:15 is that a crazy idea? 14:55:16 hmm, probably it *would* be too much to give the enemies all different elemental weapons that could be used to kill the remaining ones ... 14:55:59 90% of the time I have no idea what SamB is going on about 14:56:09 st_: never played megaman? 14:56:57 yes, why is this relevant to crawl 14:57:01 elliptic: i see your point, it would be very dependent on how the level generated, but i like the idea of a branch end that has a completely different layout every time instead of the more basic variations you can get with subvaults 14:57:09 when you beat each robot master, you get (a version of) his weapon 14:57:18 with a custom layout generator it could be more orchestrated 14:57:27 I mean, yes I've played it 14:58:18 ... so you typically decide what order to do them in based on which masters you want to kill with other masters' weapons 14:58:36 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:43 I guess that's more sprint material than serial vault, though 14:59:23 yes, could be, hard to balance since player power rises so much however 14:59:43 could probably do something about that 15:00:10 letting sprint maps specify the piety/skill multipliers would still be good 15:00:26 elliptic: yeah, short sprint vs long sprint 15:00:43 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:00:59 I would also like toggles for allowing book and god starts 15:01:38 or just forbidding any given races/classes 15:01:45 yes 15:02:55 I had some ideas for sprint yesterday 15:03:11 I have a cure one I think could work well 15:03:16 cute one* 15:04:38 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-312-gbdaba50: Note the severity and type of Xom miscasts. 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 14+ 12-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bdaba501ab6d 15:04:38 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-313-g7533cba: Formatting fixes. 10(18 minutes ago, 8 files, 317+ 263-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7533cba44f70 15:04:38 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-314-g1f91e86: Remove dangling links to removed quotes. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 28-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1f91e868abb3 15:04:47 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:08 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:45 of course there's another precedent for having the player perform quest-like tasks to get at loot: TRJ 15:15:42 a bit hard to miss the center of a small battleground, as opposed to running around a level with a small vault on it 15:17:47 somewhat similar otherwise, yes... but precedents have a problem: you shouldn't go around persuading people to genocide just because Hitler did 15:17:58 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:18:12 ok so that's this conversation finished 15:18:40 st_: :p 15:18:44 ..... 15:18:57 What in the world does that analogy have to do with anything? 15:19:20 DracoOmega: well, it brought into play a certain law ... 15:21:03 its one of the corollarys of godwins law 15:21:17 any sufficiently long crawl discussion will eventually end with a reference to nethack 15:21:31 (i assume thats what "genocide" was referring to) 15:21:38 hmm... 15:22:07 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:22:32 he also brought in Godwin's law itself, though ... 15:23:26 if a vault that's the point of a whole branch requires you to walk at most a LOS diameter to see the loot on a small open level, this doesn't mean you should have a minivault on an otherwise normal level unlock some other minivault 15:23:37 yeah, I should have used a far smaller premise :p 15:25:23 it's ok, i got the analogy first time ;) 15:26:31 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:27:57 back to set_feature_name(): env.level_map_ids is a plain array, that doesn't support subvaults or layouts 15:28:38 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:21 Well, there IS a way to query the full subvault at a a given square 15:30:24 does this also affect dumping layout names? 15:30:26 Since this shows up in debug mode 15:30:43 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:45 (And I even personally fixed it so that it works properly, since it was broken for a long time) 15:30:59 in particular, it's impossible to have a single feature be renamed to different names 15:31:00 oh, speaking of Godwin's law, does this count: ? 15:36:44 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:48:17 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:13 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:31 kilobyte: letting single features be renamed does sound problematic in terms of save file sizes 15:51:04 that's one of problems with portal_desc, yes 15:51:38 set_feature_name was supposed to fix this, and renames lingering after the feature has been altered (dug, door opened, etc) 15:52:15 looks like debug mode 'x' iterates through all subvaults inside a vault 15:52:57 yeah i remember that getting fixed for subvaults in the layout itself (in V) 15:54:26 kilobyte: by the way what do you think about the forest layout in general, i'm getting the impression trees/water might generally be seen as annoying; it's intended more like a very rare and very variable encompass vault 15:54:30 there are two mostly independent issues: 1. layout vaults not being registered in env.level_map_ids, 2. subvaults not being looked up for feature renames 15:55:08 mumra: Some people seem to have a personal vendetta against water, but used reasonably I think both of these are fine. I haven't seen the layouts in action, though. 15:55:10 mumra: why? I'd say it looks great! 15:56:04 far, far, far better than the popular layout of a big floor rectangle with some eely pools strewn around 15:56:11 great :) N78921 got it in crypt and elliott suggested not putting it in crypt but of course i take ##crawl with a pinch of salt :P 15:56:47 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 15:56:57 not putting a forest in crypt might make sense; I haven't seen the layout yet though 15:57:21 ("Why is there a forest in Crypt? Use your imagination!") 15:57:22 ... 15:57:29 it's supposed to have dead trees in crypt (but it didn't work because of this set_feature_name problem) 15:57:33 its a forest of dead trees and stuff i think 15:58:01 well why are there trees inside a crypt, dead or otherwise :P 15:58:04 Grunt: Diablo 1 vs Diablo 2, I think 15:58:10 uhh 15:58:12 i was going to remove the water pools and have gravestones instead there (and later on add some actual crypt buildings) 15:58:19 Well, there's already a forest on the bottom floor sometimes! 15:58:21 i think theres an hp lovecraft story that would be informative 15:58:23 !vault evilmike_haunted_forest 15:58:24 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/7438411 15:58:38 mumra: Well, Crypt does get water in several other layouts too 15:58:43 Doh, that omitted the opening comment. 15:58:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_%28short_story%29 15:58:49 Grunt: ie, the original premise of Crawl was a plain dungeon going down and down; this is broken by places like Swamp, Shoals, etc 15:58:57 that forest ending is coincidentally my least favorite crypt ending 15:59:02 elliptic: why is there a crypt that _doesn't_ have a church on top of it? :P 15:59:02 elliptic: I agree. 15:59:04 basically its an underground forest 15:59:16 the trees mess up targetting, exploration, etc 15:59:18 elliptic: I've heard several people say it's their favorite, though 15:59:30 thats a problem with targeting really 15:59:32 I'm not sure I really have a preference one way or the other 15:59:39 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:00:00 so im wondering about how crawl saves all the game data 16:00:37 basically, if make changes, do i need to make sure those get saved with the save file and reloaded? 16:00:45 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:04 as a really simple example, suppose i wanted the character to have a the other three DND stats (CON WIS CHA) 16:01:07 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 16:01:24 rast: tags.cc 16:01:37 rast: look at the place it stores strength or dex 16:02:36 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:07:56 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 16:09:15 what line number? 16:09:15 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:34 ah base_stats 16:11:11 -!- dcssrubot66 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:02 <|amethyst> btw, what are we going to do when the major tag hits 256? 16:13:42 extend it 16:14:05 it can even be backwards-compatible: any older version would see it as, say, tag 255 16:14:09 <|amethyst> aha 16:14:31 being able to even recognize other major tags is a new thing, too 16:14:38 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:15:08 there's been only one "real" major tag bump since 0.8, too 16:15:44 which isn't that good, by the way, because of having to support old stuff for ages 16:15:47 <|amethyst> right, I figured it was something our grandchildren might have to worry about 16:17:33 -!- Sticking has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:11 if all else fails, there's an independent save format tag, a save signature, savefile extension 16:18:23 <|amethyst> true 16:18:24 -!- Nameykins has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:18:44 and even then it could simply fail to list old saves, like every version up to 0.7 :p 16:21:46 Grunt / evilmike: i'm considering removing zot_entry_small since it seems it was only there in case the bigger vaults failed to place which of course won't happen now, do you agree with this? 16:22:46 That would be fine by me, especially in light of evilmike_zot_entry_basic. 16:22:49 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:22:59 and kilobyte i was going to zap zot_entry_traditional which i think you said you didn't mind anyway? 16:23:05 Heh. 16:23:11 could be good to disable it instead, in case we fix the generator 16:23:24 mumra: I didn't tag zot_entry_traditional with the requisite PLACE: to get it to place anyway when writing that patch. 16:23:32 So it's essentially disabled right now anyway. 16:23:48 The reason it's still there is in case we needed a zot_entry fallback for some reason. 16:24:28 Grunt: yeah i know (there's always revert) but i'll just disable zot_entry_small instead 16:24:32 since three exits should get axed, it's fitting to three entrances to share the same fate 16:25:22 ... but ... but ... but zot_entry_secondary_mimic! 16:25:38 I thought mimics were frowned upon for important things. ;) 16:26:46 kilobyte: hehe. we could still place that secondarily, it was one of the few that weren't any problem 16:26:53 what's wrong with mimics? 16:26:58 mumra: that'll be obvious though! 16:27:07 <|amethyst> Grunt: we should have mimics of more unimportant things, like skeletons and walls and floor 16:27:08 yeah 16:27:18 <3 floor mimics 16:27:24 !send kilobyte wall mimics 16:27:25 Sending wall mimics to kilobyte. 16:29:25 on the other hand could zot be a reasonable exception to the "one branch entry" rule? we could place two non-vault gates all the time 16:29:41 since it is kind of an extension of the main D 16:30:37 benchmark winner among architectures: x32. A few percent faster than amd64, which beats i386 by a lot. 16:30:57 mumra: that'd sort of make the entry vaults pointless, surely? 16:31:10 in the arm category, there's a surprisingly large difference between real armhf and raspbian armhf; both beat old armel of course 16:32:21 seems good to make people get through them, lots are pretty neat 16:32:23 ok there could be 3 gates in each entry vault so you have more routes 16:32:29 -Ofast has no obvious gains over -O3 and often it's actually slower 16:33:45 i don't see that that needs to be a requirement for the entry vaults really 16:33:58 -O3 is significantly better than -O2, but due to bugs (perhaps on our side?) it conflicts with LTO. LTO -O2: no crashes (after a recent fix), -O3: no crashes, LTO -O3: unusable 16:34:49 mumra: what is wrong with having a single entry to zot? 16:34:49 |amethyst: if you're not afraid of totally experimental architectures, you may switch the chroot to x32: up to 14% faster in one test! :p 16:35:32 <|amethyst> hm... if CPU were an issue at all I would consider it 16:35:58 (joking of course, it didn't even hit the main Debian archive yet) 16:35:59 as far as branches go it's a pretty big deal, seems good for the entry to be momentous :P 16:38:20 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: not an issue for Zot since it has a portal rather than stairs, but if you do that without also matching up downstairs and upstairs it would act funny 16:38:46 huh? 16:39:16 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: multiple entry stairs for the same branch 16:39:28 oh, that's what mumra was suggesting, not me :P 16:39:50 <|amethyst> oh, sorry misread 16:39:58 <|amethyst> mumra^ 16:42:42 elliptic: there's nothing wrong, it's just, well, traditional :P why _did_ it have 3 entrances in the first place? 16:43:00 (and 3 entrances would mean mimics can work which is of course a totally marginal reason for anything) 16:43:06 mumra: the majority of D:27s have had only one entrance for quite a long time now :P 16:43:21 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:31 I assume it had 3 entrances in the first place just because that was easiest to implement 16:43:39 since you could just replace the > with them 16:43:45 hey st_ I notice you were talking about sprint, did i ever tell you my gold sprint idea? 16:43:52 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:44:01 about the orb being in a shop? 16:44:12 you put all the runes and the orb in a shop, set the greed to some appropriate number (this keeps it nonrandom too), and then let the player get gold 16:44:15 yeah 16:44:26 i've tried that 16:44:28 putting the orb in a shop 16:44:45 i'm not sure if the orb works actually, i've tried runes though and it works 16:44:51 I think hangedman was thinking of doing something like that too 16:44:55 orb should work, you can even sell multiple orbs 16:45:06 what really bugs me though is that you can't sell gold 16:45:17 hangedman has like a dozen unfinished maps though 16:45:25 me too 16:45:32 nicolae-: what would you sell it for? 16:45:34 <|amethyst> 1learn add good_ideas < nicolae-> what really bugs me though is that you can't sell gold 16:45:37 " what really bugs me though is that you can't sell gold" 16:45:39 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 16:45:48 more evidence that vaultmakers are terrible people :P 16:45:48 i imagine all the regular vault making crew have a ton of unfinished maps 16:45:48 when i have time to work on crawl again i want to make a "normal" sprint map, perhaps using the gold idea. but anyone else is free to use it before i do 16:46:04 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:14 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:46:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:37 not me, particuarly... when i have an idea i tend to blitz through and just make it, refine it, get it finished 16:46:56 if something isn't good then it's discarded and maybe recycled later, but the discarded stuff doesnt count as unfinished imo 16:46:56 kilobyte: the idea was to fiddle with the greed formula so that it would sell for less than it was worth so if you had enough dollars saved up you could buy "more" gold, like if you had 20000 gold you could buy 25000 and make profit, like some kind of bank. it's probably for the best, for everybody, that this is not a thing that can happen. 16:47:55 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:58 I tend to have a lot of ideas I can't visualise, and often I just doodle random stuff without intent of it being in the game 16:48:13 i do that too 16:48:42 does multilevel sprint work well yet? the idea i want to try the most is basically a series of tiny encompass vaults, you get a different selection each time and can only go downwards. and each one would be an ambush vault :P 16:49:12 not yet unfortunately 16:49:23 couldn't you just do a series of portals then? 16:49:30 or something? 16:49:38 yes but that's awkward 16:49:44 portals don't work as is either, last I tried 16:49:52 there are too many advantages to having it actually be multilevel 16:49:53 though it was a long time ago 16:50:16 well, bazaar could be reached in zotdef last I knew 16:50:32 yeah and at one point, maybe still, you could put a zig in a sprint map 16:50:33 some caused crashes with plants and/or fish trying to kill you 16:50:43 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 16:50:51 so a hackish way to do it could be to make the sprint map lead to a portal vault with the necessary stuff... maybe 16:50:54 but that's really bad 16:51:00 (because they were unable to actually plan a way to get to you) 16:51:10 I'm all about bad implementation 16:51:45 well, how else do you explain the one-way aspect? 16:51:53 nicolae-: won't just putting gold in a shop work? 16:51:59 SamB: no need to explain it really 16:52:00 nicolae-: I see no technical reason not to 16:52:08 one way just makes it more interesting 16:52:19 I mean, visually 16:52:32 ah. i'd start the player on top of an empty arch probably 16:53:08 kilobyte: that's what i meant! but you can't put gold as an item to sell in a shop definition 16:53:09 so you'd make it *look* like portals without actually *being* portals? 16:53:09 evilmike: two things to do for a multilevel sprint: 1. setting brdepth[BRANCH_MAIN_DUNGEON] (trivial), 2. some way to force a particular map to be placed on D:2 16:53:25 nicolae-: really? 16:53:28 nicolae-: I guess there's a specific check against that 16:53:38 yeah, i tried a couple times and crash every time 16:53:55 probably 16:54:16 it's not like it'd ever get used for anything besides goofy vault tricks, though 16:54:19 kilobyte: well what i have in mind is a bit trickier with vault placement, since i'd want a ton of vaults going all the way to (say) d:27 and it would pick randomly. ideally like it picks normal vaults, respecting DEPTH: tags and all that 16:54:32 wth, you can't set an ego on gold?!??! (j/k) 16:54:55 h - 53 glowing gold pieces 16:54:59 idea: randart gold 16:54:59 Oops, that feels deathly cold. 16:55:01 it would just be really cool I think, you'd get a series of little "arenas" or gameplay bits which are crafted to produce interesting combat. you can control EVERYTHING including where the player starts 16:55:16 as a general thing, it would be nice if we could force vaults on successive levels, for example have a vault on d:21 that contains a set of stairs to an enclosed vault on d:22 16:55:16 s/randart/unrand/ 16:55:27 st_: that would be spectacular 16:55:39 That sounds suspiciously NetHack-ish. :b 16:55:43 well, I do wonder "wth is there a check specifically against setting egos on *gold*?" 16:55:44 this would actually make sense: "leprechaun's pot", with a different tile and name. Works like regular gold, otherwise. 16:56:23 st_: then we could use the same mechanism for tutorial and sprint, I guess? 16:56:26 what does bug me is that you can't define your own spellbooks in a shop definition unless the spellbook only has one spell 16:57:52 maybe you should just be allowed to past in a list of ITEM specs or something ? 16:58:08 you can 16:58:18 buy a spellbook with the "Spell of Mastery", it wins the game when cast 16:58:18 I mean a Lua table 16:58:19 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:26 hm 16:58:28 for sprints, it would be good to be able to use branches aswell (create a proper mini crawl, and lots of other possibilities) 16:59:03 well the problem is that the shop def uses | to separate items and the spellbook uses | to separate spell names and so if you put a defined spellbook in a shop the parser goes "what the HECK" and crashes 17:00:19 btw about zot, the entry isn't a portal to another realm. zot is underneath the dungeon, the "portal" is supposed to be a magically sealed gateway 17:00:40 nicolae-: yeah, I guessed it was something like that, and figured it out from the docs before you explained ;-) 17:00:56 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-315-g8ab0021: Disable zot_entry_small on D:27 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ab00219f981 17:00:58 and if you dont believe me read the desc for zot 17:00:58 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:01:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:01:44 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:01:56 (so what I'm getting at is, it should definitely only have one entry) 17:02:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:11 Napkin: if you got a moment, could you check if anyone pulls packages for armel and armhf (the latter has only 0.10 and 0.11)? I wonder if I should do proper nightlies, or scale back even that. 17:05:08 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:06:00 03elliptic 07* 0.13-a0-316-ga6b55f5: Fix evolution mutations being incorrectly marked as temporary instead of no_rot. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a6b55f5626c3 17:06:23 kilobyte: what, you can't read the apache logfiles? 17:07:05 no root 17:07:15 why does that need root? 17:07:26 ls: cannot open directory /var/log/apache2/: Permission denied 17:07:27 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:07:31 * SamB would think there'd be a group, too 17:07:38 like almost all of /var/log/, traditionally 17:07:57 st_: you could actually force succesive level vault placement already with some lua kludgery but it would be, well, kludgey 17:08:24 hmm, what is this group called "adm" 17:08:48 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08:49 I see a possible clean interface for placing specific vaults, but not really for the regular generator 17:08:57 it's disabled in Sprint, too 17:09:31 but i think one approach to evilmike's sprint stuff is to create a fake D branch and set sprint there, so there's no unintentional cross-pollination with D vault placement, like happened with sprint the other day 17:10:06 originally it was, you could use the portal spell to go below the sprint 17:10:13 those were the days 17:10:25 ??portal 17:10:25 portal[1/1]: L7 Tloc; book of the warp. Takes you from your current level; places you on up-stairs at the level of your choosing, up to 9 levels up or down. Enemies don't follow or attack, but those at your destination get a turn. Works in the main dungeon only, and not when on stairs, altars, traps, shops, etc. Skipped levels are not generated. Gone in 0.8. 17:10:31 i almost find it hard to believe that portal spell and sprint existed at the same time 17:10:32 !lg * sprint s=place 17:10:33 mumra: a "Sprint" branch, even 17:10:33 207069 games for * (sprint): 195820x D, 8003x D:1, 2635x Abyss, 609x D:$, Lair:9, Lair:1 17:10:40 Lair:9. 17:10:43 haha yeah that lair:9 was ragdoll 17:10:47 he found a mysterious abyss portal 17:10:49 ??sprint 17:10:49 dungeon sprint[1/1]: Sprint is a one-level, accelerated version of crawl. Originally coded by Chapayev. Now there are seven playable maps! 17:10:50 !lg * sprint place=lair:9 17:10:51 1. xomscumming the Skirmisher (L1 MuCK), worshipper of Xom, slain by a wandering mushroom on Lair:9 on 2011-12-04 16:50:12, with 20 points after 12022 turns and 0:15:59. 17:11:08 !lg * sprint place=lair:9 -tv: 1. xomscumming, XL1 MuCK, T:12022 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 17:11:19 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 17:11:38 kilobyte: well, exactly 17:11:40 what happened to all the channels? 17:11:49 its just footv and fightlub now? 17:11:51 Apparently they were eating too much bandwidth. 17:11:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 17:11:58 aw 17:12:22 not even csplat anymore, rip 17:13:01 Grunt: how does reducing the number of channels cut bandwidth usage? 17:13:07 on IP 17:13:15 not actual TV, obviously 17:13:33 I'm assuming the constant downloading of ttys 17:13:38 <|amethyst> SamB: fetching ttyrecs presumably 17:13:40 <|amethyst> what st_ said 17:13:51 oh 17:14:04 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:07 -!- sbanwart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:09 Does 17:14:14 maybe we need a CDN 17:14:22 or something 17:15:03 !lg * sprint min=cv 17:15:04 207069. tsouns the Unseen (L9 SpEn), worshipper of Makhleb, slain by a centaur warrior in Sprint (Sprint I: "Red Sonja") on 2012-02-23 17:31:01, with 2737 points after 429 turns and 0:06:23. 17:15:07 * mumra reels off some buzzwords about cloud computing 17:15:15 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:15:19 !lg * sprint min=cv s=cv 17:15:20 207069 games for * (sprint): 47322x 0.7, 34718x 0.12-a, 32617x 0.7-a, 14422x 0.8-a, 13701x 0.11-a, 13558x 0.10, 12754x 0.9, 11499x 0.11, 10508x 0.8, 9266x 0.10-a, 5258x 0.9-a, 1446x 0.13-a 17:15:21 load balance the sharded cluster 17:15:31 <|amethyst> mumra: quick, trademark the term "clo-lo" 17:15:31 !lg * sprint x=cv 17:15:32 207069. [cv=0.11] Disco the Covert (L5 SpAs), mangled by an elephant slug in Sprint (Sprint I: "Red Sonja") on 2013-04-10 22:06:56, with 398 points after 202 turns and 0:00:47. 17:15:37 !lg * sprint s=cv 17:15:38 207069 games for * (sprint): 47322x 0.7, 34718x 0.12-a, 32617x 0.7-a, 14422x 0.8-a, 13701x 0.11-a, 13558x 0.10, 12754x 0.9, 11499x 0.11, 10508x 0.8, 9266x 0.10-a, 5258x 0.9-a, 1446x 0.13-a 17:16:10 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:12 does the machine that runs footv throw away ttyrecs after it is done playing it? 17:16:38 i suppose you would need a lot of space to archive every single ttyrec 17:16:42 fr new portal vault: the cloud 17:17:01 !lg * sprint s=cv o=-. 17:17:02 207069 games for * (sprint): 32617x 0.7-a, 47322x 0.7, 14422x 0.8-a, 10508x 0.8, 5258x 0.9-a, 12754x 0.9, 9266x 0.10-a, 13558x 0.10, 13701x 0.11-a, 11499x 0.11, 34718x 0.12-a, 1446x 0.13-a 17:17:07 well, ttyrecs are extremely small when zipped i imagine 17:17:42 MarvinPA: okay, so they coexisted in 0.7-a and 0.7 17:18:12 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:18:23 faze: yes, but it could cache the most recent on the theory that the same thing might be requested again in case someone blinked or something 17:18:24 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 17:18:32 sooner or later someone will figure out an exploit to get into the Void 17:18:47 SamB: right 17:20:22 <|amethyst> faze: update-learndb-html in Henzell 17:20:25 <|amethyst> doh 17:21:06 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:27 -!- ystael has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:21:51 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:23:06 mumra: removing a branch includes changing 4676474567547 structures, so I just gave up when restoring 0.11 save compat and added the Void as a fake branch 17:23:47 0.11 had an enum for a "Hive" portal vault 17:23:55 seems like a prime candidate for reuse for Sprint 17:24:20 I'm not sure one branch is really enough? 17:24:34 I mean, there is more than one sprint map 17:24:59 you can have a tag for the specific sprint 17:25:06 or several, I guess 17:25:26 PLACE: Sprint:2 17:25:29 TAGS: sprint_meat 17:25:48 that's floor 2 of meatsprint? 17:25:49 sorry, that should have been 17:25:54 DEPTH: Sprint:1-100 17:26:02 Ao100 17:26:05 that sounds like zigsprint 17:26:16 or that 17:27:23 -!- greatorbofeyes has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:00 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:07 meatzig 17:29:12 Sprint:1-666, now 17:29:16 I eventually pared down the sprint ideas (mostly by absorbing them together): one sprint that would start in a center and have walls go down in chunks to simulate a constantly changing terrain for an arena, hyper-random pure-fight encounters with monster closets as mnolegsprint, and a vault-monster sprint with horrific procedurally generated monsters 17:29:44 why the hell did they add ao666 anyway 17:29:44 cool 17:29:52 ao100 was already a shtity grind, who thought 666 was a good idea 17:29:55 st_: I did not get rid of all uses of packed_place yet; it has an 8 bit field, might be signed, too. 17:29:56 unfortunately the last one will remain more of a joke then anything to actually use considering the "fun" of killer bee priests 17:30:04 or crystal golem zealots 17:30:17 evilmike: hey, I found it pretty cool 17:30:50 MarvinPA says it should be Ao50 for the normal, and 100 for the archangel which I agree with 17:30:51 won an UV one with almost 100% (I didn't know nuking a level doesn't count as killing folks on it) 17:30:52 i got bored the one time i tried it, cause it was just a bunch of archvile packs for what felt like 50 levels. game needs more monster variety, "nightmare foo" doesnt count 17:31:02 once you get do D:50 you are invicible so 17:31:14 ah, it was before DoomRL went to the crapper 17:31:23 st_: wrong way. AAo6666 17:31:25 no "nightmare foo", good balance, etc 17:31:29 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:31:29 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 17:31:38 I actually mainly play Ao100, because I don't like special levels much 17:31:44 i want a version which doesnt guarantee any special levels, because they take up like 1/3 of the game and they are completely fixed 17:31:49 oh right my notes have "starcursed mass shaman" okay now I have to actually finish this some day 17:31:49 also, I like grind 17:31:50 but otherwise has a normal game length 17:32:05 I found Ao100 reasonably fun when I played it on UV a few versions ago 17:32:06 greatorbofeyes: ... 17:32:09 but 666 would be ridiculous 17:32:30 we need an elliott server so we can robin it 17:32:36 evilmike: i think there's sort of a mod for that in the latest version actually 17:32:39 share the punishment 17:32:43 does UV make things easier? 17:32:44 kilobyte: in case you can't tell the sprint was intended to be the end-all of all vault-monsters 17:33:05 UV can kind of make the game easier and harder at the same time, its not balanced great 17:33:17 Classic Mode 17:33:17 Classic approach to DoomRL - 10 levels ending with Cyberdemon, no special levels, no klasses or master traits. 17:33:19 basically stuff is harder but you get more ammo, xp, better weapons early, etc 17:33:24 i guess that maybe qualifies 17:33:34 nah, i liked master traits before classes were added 17:33:47 -!- Kellhus_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:33:54 ah fair enough, i didn't start playing until classes were already a thing 17:34:14 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:34:23 sadly when master traits were added, DoomRL was already crap due to other changes 17:35:45 i dont think the game is awful in its current state btw, just could be improved 17:35:55 it'd be easier to add a Doom game mode to Crawl than to beat DoomRL into shape :p 17:36:08 twb would like that 17:36:31 -!- kek has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:37:03 the main complaint I've heard for doomrl degrading over time is adding tons of stuff, which, yeah that's going to happen when you are fishing for donations 17:37:08 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:26 I started playing at the same time as MarvinPA 17:37:58 -!- Wolfram has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:38:02 * kilobyte ponders the chances for Mountain Dwarf removal if Crawl was a paid for game. 17:38:19 so if i'm correctly reading tag_construct_char().... 17:38:31 ...anything new has to be added at the very end? 17:38:50 well, it sort of got longer and longer, without getting particularly deeper... once master traits went in, builds became more "cookie cutter", although they were fun. classes pushed it further in this direction, so did assemblies, although these can be fun too 17:39:04 rast: any place, you need to add a minor tag for any change if you want save compat anyway 17:39:12 its a kind of interesting thing to look at in terms of design. more content and variety was added, but the game doesnt feel any more varied to me 17:39:53 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:02 Corin (L14 MiBe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1177 failed. (D (Sprint)) 17:40:28 assemblies were hugely "no-brainer"y for a lot of the time i played, yeah 17:40:37 kilobyte: hmm i guess i dont care about save compatability 17:41:03 !lm * type=crash -log 17:41:03 but tag_read_you() has to be in the same order as tag_construct_char(), right? 17:41:03 4663. Hype, XL20 MiFi, T:50274 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Hype/crash-Hype-20130409-190121.txt 17:41:08 i think they keep getting nerfed but it seems like probably still an issue 17:41:09 ...oh right, I never actually played enough 1.7.2 to see if the mutations were actually cool or not 17:41:16 -!- dcssrubot305 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:18 this isnt like XML or anything? 17:41:47 Yes, it needs to read and write in the same order, but you are free to change both at the same time if you're modifying the save contents 17:41:54 As long as you write the compatibility code 17:42:08 (Often adding stuff at the end is simplest, though) 17:42:16 Corin is already fixed 17:42:19 though things like late depth pink jelly-dar priestess pairings bode well 17:43:04 so why ISNT it xml? 17:43:29 those priestess jelly packs dont really do much imo 17:43:30 rast: that would be crazy 17:43:42 SamB: wouldnt it just be, you know, 21st century? 17:43:48 or maybe a database... 17:43:56 didn't you know that the 21st century is crazy? 17:44:28 xml would solve none of crawl's save problems and add a bunch more 17:44:45 i think brogue is a good game for levels 1-26, but you need to learn to use the \ key (strips out lighting crap) 17:45:01 sqlite wouldn't really help, either 17:45:02 <|amethyst> sizes would increase dramatically with a text format 17:45:05 <|amethyst> and you can't seek 17:45:06 past 26 though, it is soooooo bad. its golems all the way down 17:45:08 Well, it could solve ONE: arbitrary adding of stored values using name-value pairs without needing compatibility code 17:45:12 Not that I think this is a good way to do it 17:45:15 I guess the absolute natures of revnants/dragons/horrors/golems probably don't work out too well 17:45:28 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: props already do that, don't they? 17:45:34 DracoOmega: we would still need compat code 17:45:48 |amethyst: Yes, though most data doesn't use that 17:46:04 SamB: Some, I'm sure. Don't take this too seriously anyway. I was just giving elliott a pedantic reply :P 17:46:15 yeah 17:46:17 props tend to suck, I'd say 17:46:29 some show quite high on profiles 17:46:29 the "add a bunch more" part is true though 17:46:36 Yes 17:46:39 I never argued that :P 17:46:44 marker props especially 17:47:50 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:47:58 Are wizmode markers used for all normally renamed features? 17:48:08 I am not sure how the vault lua handles this 17:48:21 (Though this is what Imprison does for its wall renames) 17:48:38 hmm, okay, why does the text after a prompt disappear now? 17:49:17 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 17:49:17 Incidentally, I have removed at least one or two uses of marker props in some code I am working on at the moment :P 17:49:26 I already fixed one "disappearing text" problem :-( 17:49:40 why does tag_construct_char() do marshallByte(th, you.religion); 17:49:50 wheras tag_construct_you() does marshallByte(th, you.piety); 17:50:12 well religion is a god 17:50:18 and piety is not 17:50:27 I don't think that really answers the question 17:51:06 <|amethyst> rast: because the god is shown in the loading screen 17:51:33 Cherry-picked 1 commit into master 17:51:33 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-318-ga58bd4c: Update changelog through 0.13-a0-317-gaae6efa. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 19+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a58bd4c74ba3 17:51:34 03Grunt 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-85-gbaf1bbc: Change the changelog header to reflect an upcoming release. 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=baf1bbc5b7ad 17:51:35 Nemelex net sacrifice prompt by dfinlay 17:51:37 <|amethyst> rast: and all that stuff is stored separately so you can see the names etc of files even across save-incompatible bumps 17:52:08 |amethyst: yes, there's a pretty explicit comment about that in tag_construct_char() 17:59:14 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:50 so, I found a bug and I'm about to demo it on crawl.s-z.org 18:00:57 watching 18:01:03 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:22 notice how the text I entered has disappeared? 18:01:32 yes 18:01:38 that is a bug right? 18:01:44 -!- Vidiny has quit [Quit: [19:23] don't they have refill machines in ikea [19:24] bet those muricans took their vases to those straight away after paying] 18:01:57 probably; I don't know whether other prompts for text have the same problem though 18:02:12 it does seem like the text should stay 18:02:58 -!- Bromingo has quit [Client Quit] 18:03:07 oh hm, maybe the auto sacrifice fix should be backported to 0.12, re: 6902 18:03:16 since it makes nemelex pretty unplayable as-is imo 18:04:17 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:04:53 <|amethyst> SamB: seems to happen with cancelable_get_line specifically 18:04:59 yeah 18:05:02 <|amethyst> SamB: the &( prompt for example does the same thing 18:05:40 should those be using msgwin_get_line() instead? 18:06:39 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:07:11 MarvinPA: the bug is unrelated 18:07:22 right, it just reminded me of it 18:07:49 !mantis 6902 18:07:50 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6902 18:07:52 MarvinPA: trunk is broken for nemelex sacrifices, BTW: it will silently skip items unless prompt_ignore is set 18:08:08 <|amethyst> SamB: looks like it 18:08:23 if you happened to step on them before, for example during combat 18:08:28 -!- faz is now known as faz_ 18:08:51 i am pretty sure that's untrue 18:09:21 items are only skipped if you autoexplore off them 18:09:21 try the scientific method 18:09:22 <|amethyst> SamB: probably, yes; not sure if there would be any downsides 18:09:24 I wonder though: do we even need to have trapped nets as an actual item? Making them an ench would simplify lots of item handling. 18:09:58 MarvinPA: when fighting a group, you're very likely to stand on a pile of items 18:10:53 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 18:11:05 right, and that has no effect on anything 18:11:18 you will autoexplore back to them 18:11:31 and then either sacrifice them or not sacrifice them and then autoexplore onwards 18:11:41 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:11:48 did you try the scientific method? 18:12:22 yes, on s-z just now 18:12:30 good 18:12:34 accidentally pressing 'o' twice makes items silently ignored, too 18:12:46 not so good 18:13:00 well if you are autoexploring then you're done in combat and can make decisions about sacrificing things or not sacrificing things 18:13:21 <|amethyst> kilobyte: accidentally pressing tab twice can kill you 18:13:51 getting prompted repeatedly about autosacrificing with "auto_sacrifice = false" seems like a clear bug to me 18:14:05 how is that a sacrifice-specific problem 18:14:07 just checked: kill an enemy, advance, kill another, press 'o': items dropped by the first will never be considered for sacrifice 18:14:14 you could accidentally ignore a +2131239 triple sword of speed instead 18:14:38 I have no auto_sacrifice, obviously 18:14:51 yeah, what elliott said 18:15:00 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I visit both with successive pressings of o 18:15:49 <|amethyst> kilobyte: oh, you mean you 'o' off the second one's corpse 18:16:06 or the first one's 18:16:22 without some sort of sacrifice-minded thing, you won't visit stacks you've already "seen" 18:16:35 in general, any item you're standing on when pressing 'o' will be ignored, even if it hasn't been seen before 18:16:43 <|amethyst> err 18:16:51 I mean, announced 18:16:52 how can it not have been seen if you're standing on it 18:17:02 <|amethyst> not announced? 18:17:11 yeah, wouldn't that have been announced when you stepped on? 18:17:12 you've been busy fighting 18:17:30 <|amethyst> you stepped on it after the fighting was done 18:17:37 <|amethyst> oh 18:17:38 <|amethyst> I see 18:17:42 <|amethyst> first monster's corpse 18:17:45 stash tracker still knows about the stack, doesn't it? 18:17:56 you mean, you should press ';' (especially with its partial stack pickup) and see the result every time you want to press 'o'? 18:18:23 personally i would not force annoying prompts on all players because some players don't read messages 18:18:32 0.12 should at least have an option to disable it 18:18:35 <|amethyst> you don't have to force 18:18:42 <|amethyst> just make prompt_ignore (or prompt) the default 18:18:47 <|amethyst> probably not prompt 18:18:55 <|amethyst> leave false as an option 18:19:01 MarvinPA: it should propose to sac items at least once 18:19:02 right, my point is that promptless behaviour doesn't exist in 0.12 18:19:26 the ignoring bug has been introduced quite a while ago, too 18:19:44 shortly after autoexplore has been made visit sacrificiables 18:19:52 the option's behaviour makes no sense to me, I don't see why its hould be default at all 18:20:02 in particular, like I said this problem has basically nothing to do with sacrifices 18:20:07 <|amethyst> kilobyte: why not make "prompt" the default then? 18:20:11 why? there's no prompt to pick up a vamp +20 exec axe if you kill a monster and autoexplore onto the stack 18:20:32 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:47 there should least be an option for players to be able to make their own decisions about what to do with items 18:20:59 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:21:01 i would claim it should obviously be default but i don't particularly care as long as the option exists 18:21:16 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:21:18 that's why auto_sacrifice is not the default 18:21:38 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:21:40 (and as elliott mentioned, it's pretty useless, at least for Nemelex) 18:21:49 ??? 18:21:50 sometimes it kind of ignores me that autoexplore doesn't explore onto single items 18:21:59 (unless they're set up for pickup) 18:21:59 it is default in 0.12, this is exactly the problem 18:22:26 or rather it claims to default to "false" but "false" actually means "yes, prompt me, i cannot make my own decisions" 18:22:44 MarvinPA: er no, two options have been conflated into one 18:22:48 I thought that was changed 18:23:04 an option that would make sense to me given kilobyte's problem is something that shows you items and prompts whether to explore whenever you autoexplore on a square with items on them 18:23:15 auto_sacrifice used to mean "press p for me" 18:23:16 since the problem is missing items, not sacrifices in general 18:23:47 I think that option really shouldn't be default though, it's very noisy and newbies who play slowly and read messages etc. will just find it spammy 18:23:51 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 18:24:22 (as well as experienced users accustomed to how autoexplore currently works) 18:24:35 something of the sort would indeed be nice 18:24:38 0.12's behaviour is consistent with autopickup, at least 18:24:44 probably the option should be taken away from auto_sacrifice, too 18:24:52 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:25:34 autopickup doesn't force you to answer a prompt every time you try and explore 18:26:30 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:50 auto_sacrifice does 18:27:10 <|amethyst> you mean greedy_explore_sacrificeable 18:27:13 i use sacrifice before explore 18:27:40 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: (and autopickup does if for some reason you didn't pick up the things) 18:27:44 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:28:15 so does greedy_explore_sacrificeable-conflated-with-auto_sacrifice 18:28:22 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:28:23 it's a mess, indeed 18:30:42 MarvinPA: if you'd want double o to work right, what about making it mark items as ignored only if they have been explored to at least once? 18:33:26 ie, if you step onto an item in a way other than autoexplore, pressing 'o' once will merely list what's here (ie, same as if it stopped at one), pressing it again will ignore and resume? 18:33:38 <|amethyst> I like that 18:33:50 that sounds like it would work, yes 18:33:50 <|amethyst> I'd still want option for the prompt 18:34:30 <|amethyst> (also, does anyone actually use auto_sacrifice = prompt ?) 18:35:09 no idea, would be too annoying I think 18:35:52 I for one use prompt_ignore, ie, 0.12 default, because it's exceedingly rare to neither pick up an item nor sac it 18:36:40 <|amethyst> one player on CSZO trunk uses = prompt 18:36:51 that seems like something that only makes sense as a nemelex worshipper 18:36:53 <|amethyst> two use = prompt_ignore 18:36:58 the prompt doesn't help a trog worshipper pick up items 18:37:22 kilobyte: this is primarily a problem with nemelex, as i mentioned at the start 18:37:29 yeah 18:37:34 where that's not particularly rare 18:37:54 |amethyst: few people have new options set: they'd need to know about them first 18:38:45 I think 0.12 default shouldn't really be nemelex-focused, since other gods are more popular 18:38:45 MarvinPA: I can't quite think of a reason to leave junk around 18:38:50 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:50 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:54 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:56 <|amethyst> kilobyte: well, 160 have auto_sacrifice set to something 18:39:03 some stuff isn't junk 18:39:08 <|amethyst> kilobyte: prompt_ignore can't be compared, though, you're right 18:39:08 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:07 |amethyst: I'm one, right? 18:40:15 or don't devs count? 18:40:21 <|amethyst> SamB: yes, you and I are the two with prompt_ignore on CSZO :) 18:40:50 we probably ought to make it the default for a while so people find out about it 18:41:55 or I guess we could mention it in the changelog 18:42:08 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:32 * SamB wonders if we ought to make the changelog go a version further back? 18:42:45 Mm? 18:42:54 on ?V I mean 18:43:16 so you could see what changed in 0.12 and 0.13 at once 18:44:32 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:34 of course, that would require actually understanding te ersion number 18:47:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:48:21 |amethyst: ok.... so should i store new things with tag_construct_you() or tag_construct_char() 18:49:15 what new things? 18:52:32 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:36 so, potions of gain have been replaced, huh? 18:55:54 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:55:58 array versions of the god stuff... i guess ill just put them in the corresponding sections 18:56:10 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:24 * SamB isn't sure that's a good idea ... 18:57:39 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:00:30 hmm, unless that already requires bumping the minor version 19:01:48 -!- RichardSimmons has quit [Client Quit] 19:03:53 sooo ... when I go to the ?V screen, it says "* Potions of gain have been replaced by potions of beneficial" 19:04:19 is that a bug in ?V, or in changelog.txt ? 19:05:09 * Potions of gain have been replaced by potions of beneficial 19:05:12 ?V it looks like 19:05:42 yeah, I guess it would be silly to use markup in changelog.txt 19:05:53 Changelog is correct. 19:06:20 yeah, I know what it says in changelog.txt 19:08:24 -!- RichardSimmons has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:11:21 -!- dcssrubot292 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:28 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:12:34 potions of ');drop table high_scores;--' 19:13:18 the changelog isn't interpolated into any SQL queries, sorry 19:13:29 also I think we probably do our SQL queries the safe way 19:18:55 ??annihilation 19:18:56 I don't have a page labeled annihilation in my learndb. 19:19:02 ??highlevel 19:19:02 hard book[1/1]: "This book is beyond your current level of understanding." Annihilations, Grand Grimoire, Necronomicon. All require Spellcasting 6, 10 to read (or worshipping the god who gifts them). 19:19:04 ??annihilations 19:19:05 book of annihilations[1/1]: One of the three especially difficult books; requires cast 6, conj 10 to read, or Vehumet worship (he gifts it). Spells: orb of destruction, poison arrow, chain lightning, LCS, fire storm, ice storm. 19:19:23 !learn edit book_of_annihilations s/ (he gifts it)// 19:19:23 No change because the regex failed to match. 19:19:24 oh no wonder it won't let me read it 19:19:29 !learn edit book_of_annihilations s/ \(he gifts it\)// 19:19:30 book of annihilations[1/1]: One of the three especially difficult books; requires cast 6, conj 10 to read, or Vehumet worship. Spells: orb of destruction, poison arrow, chain lightning, LCS, fire storm, ice storm. 19:19:38 (Is the part just before that still true?) 19:20:18 ...it isn't. 19:20:24 no 19:20:25 vehumet doesn't have anything to do with it, yeah 19:20:29 !learn edit book_of_annihilations[1] s/, or Vehumet worship// 19:20:29 book of annihilations[1/1]: One of the three especially difficult books; requires cast 6, conj 10 to read. Spells: orb of destruction, poison arrow, chain lightning, LCS, fire storm, ice storm. 19:20:40 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:20:44 also, beogh is displeased with my Octopode for deserting 19:20:51 SamB: ... 19:21:11 * SamB is somewhat easily amused 19:21:11 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:21:11 ??grand grimoire 19:21:12 grand grimoire[1/1]: Demonic Horde, Mass Abjuration, Haunt, Summon Greater Demon, Malign Gateway, Summon Horrible Things. Requires 10 summoning and 6 spellcasting, and causes summoning miscasts on failed memorisation. 19:21:24 !learn edit grand_grimoire s/, and causes.*/./ 19:21:25 grand grimoire[1/1]: Demonic Horde, Mass Abjuration, Haunt, Summon Greater Demon, Malign Gateway, Summon Horrible Things. Requires 10 summoning and 6 spellcasting. 19:22:41 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:07 -!- mamga has quit [Client Quit] 19:23:13 I hope octopodes get octopode allies from Beogh 19:23:26 fr: octopode warlords 19:24:07 beogh gives them sirens riding krakens 19:24:48 ...beogh let an octopode worship in the first place? 19:26:50 wasn't an octopode when he started 19:27:31 secret excuse to implement more tengu classes (also minotaurs and demigods and halflings and 19:28:02 How'd you become an octopode? 19:28:41 wizmode 19:28:45 probably the magic of &r 19:30:40 -!- Shade_Tornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:31:56 aha 19:31:58 i'm just going through some of these boulder beetle inconsistencies. there seems to be an awful lot of code that assumes mons_is_projectile actually checks for boulder beetles, when it doesn't. 19:32:04 but some of the cases seem a bit strange: 19:32:11 // Can't damage orbs or boulders this way. 19:32:14 in fight_melee 19:32:21 nice boulder beetle buff 19:32:24 surely it should be possible to melee a boulder beetle? 19:32:35 harmless AND invincible 19:32:48 boulder beetle perm_ench:death's_door 19:32:58 I swear I've meleed rolling boulder beetles before. 19:33:00 it is possible, isn't it? 19:33:07 MarvinPA: his point is that it tries to outlaw it 19:33:07 yes, because the comment is inaccurate 19:33:08 but fails 19:33:12 because it assumes mons_is_projectile does something it doesn't 19:33:19 aha 19:33:26 in which case yes 19:37:43 Vaults for Vaults, Shoals, custom shops by nicolae 19:41:56 -!- rax_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:15 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:16 -!- rax has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:42:16 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:16 -!- y2s82 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:59 -!- doome has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:49:59 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Client Quit] 19:52:21 -!- Utis` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:28 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:36 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:57:29 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:57:56 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:58:40 -!- bitsailor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:54 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 20:01:01 hmm ... mislead is a tricky one ... would look a bit strange if 'the [some foo] curls into a ball and starts rolling!' 20:01:13 but then it carries on looking like whatever foo, just flying around really fast with a dust trail 20:01:27 <|amethyst> mumra: "The dragon twitches its whiskers" was already classified as not a bug :) 20:01:32 don't other monsters with unique behaviour do that? 20:01:40 i guess not quite to the same extent 20:01:51 it sounds about right to me 20:02:04 at least we don't have to pay animators to depict it! 20:02:06 there might be a tiles bug where they look like boulders anyway 20:04:49 okay, what is &B supposed to do? 20:05:17 I'm guessing "hang crawl" isn't it? 20:08:08 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:08:19 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0/20130326150557]] 20:08:27 I guess it only really works with certain kinds of vaults? Maybe it ought to check whatever it needs first? 20:09:26 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:09 -!- greatorbofeyes has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:17:08 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:18:50 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 20:21:25 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 20:23:15 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-319-g77598ac: Make zot_entry_traditional an unvault. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 33-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=77598ac1b781 20:23:15 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-320-g7fddca2: Don't claim auto_sacrifice is a "generic option", rename its enums. 10(84 minutes ago, 5 files, 33+ 33-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7fddca25532c 20:23:15 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-321-ge0f72ca: Typo fix. 10(48 minutes ago, 3 files, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e0f72cacdb0d 20:23:15 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-322-gab2f672: Fix trapping nets being considered sacrificable. 10(44 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab2f672a0e0b 20:25:32 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:20 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-323-g0333ab8: Some vaults from nicolae, with a couple of tweaks (#6903). 10(8 minutes ago, 5 files, 687+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0333ab8a1489 20:29:10 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:35 Hmm ... should boulders stop rolling when teleported / blinked / dispersed? I would have thought no, but I just saw a commit from MarvinPA in Oct that did this (but missed the dispersal case) 20:29:45 This applies to Disjunction also of course 20:30:01 That would be easier than some of the possible alternatives. 20:30:16 I'm wondering if it was to fix the associated movement problems, which I've now fixed anyway 20:30:31 Grunt: what possible alternatives and why easier? 20:30:37 yeah, i guess if they keep rolling from where they land it could be fine for them to carry on 20:30:41 with the fix i just made, they carry on rolling in the same direction 20:30:44 -!- greatorbofeyes has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:48 but in the correct position 20:30:50 MarvinPA: ok 20:30:59 -!- faz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:31:00 Oh? I would have thought that solution would have been tricky to implement. 20:31:03 i forget but i imagine it was a lazy fix by me :P 20:31:04 Maybe I'm just losing it. <_< 20:31:42 Grunt: it was already supposed to work, it was just the faulty mons_is_projectile check that meant the projectile x,y didn't get updated 20:31:50 i.e. you can disperse an IOOD and it works fine 20:32:04 which should use all the same code 20:33:48 -!- benyakrik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:30 -!- mumra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:07 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:36:27 IOOD updates its inner coordinates when relocated, I guess boulders should too. 20:37:07 kilobyte: exactly, and they do now (boulders were supposed to be updating but the code was making the wrong check) 20:37:21 can you really cast dispersal or disjunction on an iood 20:37:46 why shouldn't you? 20:38:02 you can also tornado them i think 20:38:02 Well, virtually nothing affects them 20:38:24 at least tornadoing them is a bug 20:38:28 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-324-g463d1a4: Fix and clarify several cases of buggy boulder behaviour 10(6 minutes ago, 11 files, 32+ 26-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=463d1a4ce053 20:38:32 dispersal/disjunction probably too 20:38:37 IMO you shouldn't be able to dispersal or disjunct them, yes 20:39:11 dispersal is a hexy thing. Disjunction could be argued to be messing with space's topology. 20:39:32 tornado at least is something purely physical, and shouldn't affect anything airstrike can't 20:39:36 You can't disperse or disjunct orbs, for the record. 20:39:57 ok, i tihnk you used to be able to a long time ago 20:41:10 fire crab (04t) | Spd: 11 | HD: 8 | HP: 38-66 | AC/EV: 9/6 | Dam: 1504(fire:8-15), 1504(fire:8-15) | !sil | Res: 06magic(42), 04fire+++ | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 492 | Sp: flame blast (d12) | Sz: small | Int: insect. 20:41:10 %??fire crab 20:41:15 knew it 20:41:26 -!- dcssrubot716 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:38 Knew what? 20:41:46 disjunction i would argue the case for, it's a high-level translocation after all, but it's not a major thing 20:42:03 !tell nicolae- fire crabs cannot actually swim, your shoals vault should use shallow water or something 20:42:04 greatorbofeyes: OK, I'll let nicolae- know. 20:42:13 unless somebody wants to go fix that 20:42:32 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:43:00 One WOULD think that crabs could handle water. Though I suppose these ARE fire-based.... 20:43:28 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:43:36 lava maybe? 20:43:38 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 20:43:56 shoals vault with lava? 20:44:05 a monster needs rDrown as well as rF+++ to be able to swim in lava 20:44:12 Well, it has rF+++ 20:44:23 I guess it needs rDrown then 20:44:24 So I think if you made it swim, it could probably move through lava 20:44:25 already made a shoals vault with lava and a fire crab but it didn't try to make the non-swimming obvious 20:44:52 SamB: volcanic island 20:52:24 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:53:04 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 20:57:34 -!- MAR_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:23 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:45 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:08 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 21:07:18 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:17:36 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:38 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:23 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:15 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:45 apocalypse crabs <3 21:30:54 ...whoops, wrong tab 21:31:35 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:47 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:38 -!- infiniplex has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:59 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 21:45:13 -!- greatorbofeyes is now known as glacialagnaktor 21:46:37 -!- glacialagnaktor has left ##crawl-dev 21:47:17 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:24 hai 21:47:28 -!- dcssrubot831 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:32 * Grunt waves bh. 21:48:45 -!- jday_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:49:00 Is there currently a 0.13 branch? Mantis says there is, but I can't find it on git. 21:49:07 It is trunk. 21:49:09 it's master 21:49:10 i.e. master. 21:49:42 So if git says I have "master", I have the one I should? 21:49:55 Yes. 21:51:35 Thank you! 21:53:41 !tell mumra Vaults seems to be generating disconnected levels; is this intentional? 21:53:41 Grunt: OK, I'll let mumra know. 21:54:38 Grunt: is it happening a lot? 21:54:38 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:54:59 mumra: I just saw it in a live game (TheProvocateur), and it turned up reliably when I was testing the vaults I added in earlier. 21:58:27 right yeah, i think it only happens when rooms place in open areas 21:58:40 sometimes they connect to each other instead of the doors opening up to the outside world 21:59:03 there should definitely be a way to stop that 22:01:37 I think the dungeon builder is supposed to take care of that ;-P 22:01:37 i don't actually think it's so bad if it happens very rarely since it can be accessed from a different level, but if it's happening all the time it's a bit annoying 22:01:48 SamB: there are stairs so it's fine 22:01:57 -!- Soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:01:59 or at least, the dungeon builder thinks it's fine 22:02:01 I meant, *your* dungeon builder 22:02:19 aka layout 22:02:32 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:03:09 yeah i clearly broke something in the rewrite 22:03:12 but anyway as long as it makes sure those stairs are actually reachable from the first zone of D:1 22:03:32 which I guess means from Vaults:1 22:03:40 no, there's no interlevel connectivity checks anywhere 22:03:48 this sort of thing can actually happen anywhere in the dungeon 22:04:09 i mean, it's possible to get disconnected areas you can't reach by any stairs 22:04:15 it just doesn't happen very often 22:05:20 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:36 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-324-g463d1a4 22:07:43 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:36 You can use fill_disconnected to fill in everything unreachable from a point. That is what layout_big_octagon does. 22:09:03 infiniplex: but if that means filling in a vault, it could overwrite items and monsters 22:09:08 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:31 * Grunt is reminded of the first incarnation of the Swamp:$ bug... 22:10:02 infiniplex: i also wrote a routine that analyses the whole level and fills in everything but the biggest connected zone (it doesn't need to start from a point) which is handy with procedural layouts where you're not 100% certain where a connect point is going to be 22:10:19 but the problem here is that the zone IS connected because it has a staircase ... 22:11:20 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:11:25 You could only count the first stairs (I think its "{") as connected. I guess you might not get the biggest region that way. 22:11:53 i would rather fix the issue that caused the disconnected zone, since it's possible to do this ;) 22:12:37 anyway i can't fill it in, it's a vault, i'd be overwriting monsters which would cause errors... 22:14:36 How about whenever you put in a vault, you assign it a number. If a connnects to another vault, assign all with either number the lower one. Then, at the end connect all but the lowest number to a lower number. 22:15:03 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:48 infiniplex: there's an elegant solution similar to that; i don't particularly need to assign numbers, but i can create a map of which rooms join to where and make sure everything has a route to the main layout 22:16:06 i.e. carving doors right at the end instead of as i go along 22:16:56 this is something i'm kind of building into the totally new version, but for the purposes of fixing it in .12 i can just stop rooms placing somewhere that they'll block an existing door 22:17:19 You might want to cut a few extra doors. Tree-like layouts are harder. 22:17:41 Also less interesting to explore, generally 22:17:49 i already am cutting lots of doors, just sometimes they don't go in the right place 22:18:07 (That wasn't a complaint, by the way) 22:18:08 i wasn't talking about tree-like layouts, i went to some effort to make things NOT tree-like ;) 22:18:42 Also not a complaint from me. 22:20:50 DracoOmega: I'm making a clear distinction between wrath effects and penance 22:20:55 it's ok, i didn't interpret anything as a complaint :P 22:21:39 bh: In what sense? Or just the sense of how you mollify them? 22:22:06 DracoOmega: penance for things that make your god sad. Wrath for punishments 22:22:22 but yes, piety gain to reduce penance, exp to reduce wrath 22:23:06 That is good 22:23:14 -!- Nicksvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:34:45 03bh 07[xpwrath] * 0.13-a0-268-gf33b5ee: Separate Penance and Wrath 10(10 minutes ago, 5 files, 19+ 19-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f33b5ee7f87e 22:35:11 -!- rax_ is now known as rax 22:35:16 hai rax! 22:35:21 yo 22:35:37 -!- CreepingCrawled has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:37:21 -!- ToastyP has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:13 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:43 Grunt: this should have fixed it, i couldn't reproduce it again (and there should be less vetos so average level generation should be slightly quicker!) 22:43:04 * Grunt looks to Cheibriados. 22:44:18 usually s-z can rebuild before chei knows what's going on ;) 22:45:25 hmm.. there's some bullshit code on my xpwrath branch 22:47:21 s/ on.*// 22:47:39 Crawl has some pretty terrible code in places. :) 22:48:43 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-325-g1bf9771 (34) 22:49:38 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:49:46 -!- st_ has quit [] 22:49:58 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-325-g1bf9771: Carve doors in more V walls to prevent disconnected areas 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1bf97711ce0a 22:53:01 see, chei still lost, i even gave him a decent head start 22:54:38 ohhhh... that's how Ash penance works 22:54:41 took me a while to remember 22:55:00 vacuously? 22:56:39 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-325-g1bf9771 (34) 22:57:04 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 22:57:38 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 22:57:49 It's impossible to get Ash penance, isn't it? 22:58:31 amnesia doesn't do it? 22:58:44 What? 22:58:58 ash likes learning 22:59:13 so you'd think ash would dislike un-learning 22:59:18 Well, Ash clearly doesn't mind you forgetting things to learn other things or the whole reskill power wouldn't exist 22:59:28 true 22:59:29 ash wrath, I mean. 22:59:47 abandonment doesn't do it? 22:59:55 I think it might make sense for me to blow away xpwrath and redo it 23:00:11 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:16 DracoOmega: hence vacuously 23:03:23 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:28 Heh 23:04:28 -!- spriseris has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:04:35 -!- spriseris_ is now known as spriseris 23:08:19 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:59 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 23:17:32 -!- dcssrubot8 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:35 DracoOmega: can you sanity check wrath? I think I actually originally implemented the solution we agreed upon recently. 23:21:26 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:23:35 -!- atomicthumbs has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:25:18 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:16 I will have a look 23:26:20 thanks 23:30:13 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:30:53 -!- moohaus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:31:47 there's a special place in hell for people who use case sensitive captchas. 23:33:16 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 23:39:01 Well, there look to be a few logic inversions when you converted some of the old penance checks into new wrapper functions. I am working my way down the list 23:39:49 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:24 Can someone reopen this: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6407 23:41:30 Or apply my patch :) 23:41:53 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:43 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:46:50 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:36 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:48:06 -!- Sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:48:36 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:53 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:49:02 Medar: I reopened it 23:50:00 Thanks 23:51:09 I'll leave applying the patch to dol, since he applied the first patch 23:51:38 -!- pootmachine has quit [] 23:52:59 -!- Sticking has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:53:04 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:21 -!- Diesell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:51 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:59:44 Yunor the Blocker (L13 HOFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2570 failed on turn 517. (D) 23:59:53 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~]