00:00:05 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 00:00:11 DracoOmega: right. I didn't remove them from the vaults. 00:00:13 Grunt: Nah, I am already busy fixing it :P 00:00:22 bh: already done :b 00:00:34 Grunt: thanks 00:00:36 DracoOmega: oh look, it has a Mantis entry now. 00:00:50 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:16 Ha 00:01:58 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:35 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-132-g6f677c3 (34) 00:04:48 any other good ideas on the tavern? 00:05:05 Tentacled Starspawn Odd Messages With Corruption by Arrhythmia 00:05:29 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-132-g6f677c3 (34) 00:06:49 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:10:07 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-133-g20cfba1: Don't give messages for out-of-LoS tentacle pulls 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=20cfba186d7e 00:10:30 do we want a potion of transmogrification? 00:11:19 Bug resolved and closed in 10 minutes of being posted. Nice turnaround time :P 00:11:33 DracoOmega: looking for a job? ;) 00:12:23 -!- Agnarh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:12:54 Well, if you're asking about the potion, I am still in favor of 0.12 polish over 0.13 shinies, until 0.12 and such is actually out :P 00:13:29 I've fixed bugs before they were reported; what do I win? :b 00:14:25 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:12 Grunt: commit messages utterly devoid of the bug numbers for the bugs they close? 00:17:34 -!- dcssrubot165 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:17:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:45 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-133-g20cfba1 00:27:55 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:21 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-134-g9ddf90b: Add four more color names to the miscellaneous database. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9ddf90b13faa 00:31:01 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 00:31:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:52 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:20 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:42:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:42:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:43:48 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:44:38 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:45:06 -!- GiantOwl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:47:32 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:48:27 -!- dcssrubot159 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:08 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:17 -!- Marceluiz has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:07 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 00:56:57 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:05 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:01:10 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 01:04:37 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:54 -!- Marceluiz has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:45 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-135-gba80b28: Wand tiles 10(6 minutes ago, 13 files, 2+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ba80b2830b96 01:06:51 -!- Sunkern has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:06:59 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 01:07:09 finally got around to those 01:07:33 Snazy-looking 01:07:50 Is the gem-glass one supposed to just look like an outline, though? 01:08:18 only the pure of heart can see it 01:08:28 ??swarm 01:08:29 I don't have a page labeled swarm in my learndb. 01:08:30 the emperor's new wand? 01:08:45 bad idea: cloud of insects 01:10:25 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:14 ??powered by pain 01:12:15 powered by pain[1/2]: Taking damage sometimes restores MP (50%), or gives agility (25%) or might (25%). Tier 2 DS mutation. 01:12:43 Would an aura-as-hp-decreases mutation be bad / overlap too much with TSO? 01:13:03 -!- namad8 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:14 Well, the issue with stuff that gets better when you're more injured is that you try to spend as little time injured as possible 01:14:31 And often if you are playing well, you spend only a small portion especially injured 01:14:45 Augmentation was rather bad when it only had much effect while highly injured 01:14:54 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:18:05 would it be bad to couple nightstalker with LOS+1 detection? 01:18:19 hrm. that would probably cause people to trick shot freezing clouds. 01:19:29 Nightstalker is strong as-is. Some people find it a bit annoying, and it makes exploration take longer, but I'm not really sure a good way to solve that 01:21:55 how about cling? 01:22:04 though that sort of duplicates spider form 01:22:13 Well, it also doesn't do very much in most cases 01:23:10 squarelos mutation ;) 01:26:00 Haha 01:26:33 NO! 01:26:35 There'll be an April First next year 01:28:28 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:28:28 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:08 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:29:39 -!- Marceluiz has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:14 DracoOmega: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7441 dpeg has a good rundown of mutation ideas here 01:31:15 ??shoutitis 01:31:15 shout[2/3]: If you have the shouting mutation, you will sometimes shout. The more intense the mutation, the more often you shout. Some smartalecks call this Tourette's. 01:31:42 I don't see a MUT_SHOUT 01:34:29 demonspawn (14@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 130 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:34:29 %??demonspawn 01:37:34 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:40:20 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Changing host] 01:43:18 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:44 -!- eb has quit [] 01:45:23 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:45:41 -!- FreeKillB has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:46:15 -!- Marceluiz has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:25 morning 01:46:30 DracoOmega: yea or nay: Thick Metallic Scales. Higher AC than Thin Metallic Scales, at the cost of speed reduction 01:47:00 (or mumra for that matter) 01:47:37 I do not like a scales slot having such a bad effect tied to any option in it 01:47:54 Slow movement is really bad 01:47:57 it'd have to be very decent ac i think 01:48:01 yeag 01:48:04 yeah 01:48:32 Well, iridescent already gives either 8 or 9, with no downside 01:48:38 So.... 01:49:28 the code says 8 01:49:33 Yes, I wasn't sure 01:50:42 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:51:29 otoh slightly faster movement at the cost of being very easily damaged - e.g. "glass boned" 01:51:45 -!- Marceluiz has joined ##crawl-dev 01:51:47 except now that i read that back it sounds rude somehow 01:51:51 but you know what i mean 01:51:56 o_0 01:52:33 what about AC-, Int+? Or should scales be strictly bodily 01:54:21 Well, repulsion field isn't strictly bodily, I suppose, but the one you just said still sounds a bit odd to me 01:55:56 -!- eggonlegs has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:56:52 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:45 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:58:09 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:00:26 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:09:53 -!- tJener has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:13:47 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:16:20 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:13 -!- Marceluiz has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:54 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:55 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:01 -!- Marceluiz has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:35 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:32 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Client Quit] 02:23:59 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:00 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:35:17 potion of benevolence 02:35:50 or, since it's mostly double edged stuff 02:35:53 potion of ambivalence] 02:37:24 -!- substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:38:51 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:39:53 or, on further reading of the scrollback - rather than potion of foo at all: a potion labelled "drink me" 02:41:16 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:40 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:24 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:10:26 -!- dcssrubot639 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:14:34 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:19:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:33 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:20 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:37:58 -!- spacepreacher has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:50 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!] 03:55:47 -!- Wolfram has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:04:56 -!- SexyAcids has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:08:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:13:41 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:16:03 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:05 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:34 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:22:33 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:25 -!- Mottikins__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:24:19 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:24:23 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:24:25 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:27:20 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:32:59 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:36 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:38:52 -!- dcssrubot305 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:41:01 -!- dcssrubot952 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:46 -!- scummos^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:20 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:50:12 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:53 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:55 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:04:29 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 05:08:32 -!- nooodl__ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:28 -!- nooodl__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:14:16 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:18:36 -!- nooodl__ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:39 why am i still levitating :( 05:22:47 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:02 very odd... invoked levitation from centaur barding, escaped abyss, removed barding... still levitating 05:24:32 Are you playing 0.11? 05:26:48 yes 05:27:04 i put the barding back on and ti gave me an option to de-levitate 05:27:11 Well, there's a decent chance that whatever this bug is is already fixed 05:27:16 fair enough 05:27:25 Since I actually already today removed boots of flight, while flying, and stopped flying 05:27:54 (Boots/bardings of levitation are of flight now) 05:30:13 right 05:42:55 -!- _D_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:44:17 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:45:12 -!- scummos_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:13 Okay, so someone stepped on an alarm trap that was in an entry vault, and not defined in the map itself. I am not sure how this is possible, since they're not supposed to be able to generate before D;4 05:46:24 Anyone have any ideas? 05:46:38 (Not that I expect anyone who could answer is actually HERE at the moment, but there's always the backlog :P) 06:06:02 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:15 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:09 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:33 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:20:14 -!- alefury has quit [] 06:20:40 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:21:53 -!- tychotesla has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:23 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:24:39 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:23 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:11 DracoOmega: that does sound impossible. something screwy is going on somewhere (unless there is _another_ vault with can_overwrite that placed) 06:27:31 are you in debug mode? X over the square and check it's still registered to that vault 06:27:40 also, which vault was it 06:28:01 Well, this was someone online 06:28:11 It was entry_aquarium_b 06:28:30 !lg * status=~mark -3 06:28:30 DracoOmega: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:28:31 5/7. Exkaiser the Sneak (L1 TeAs), slain by a hobgoblin (a +0,+1 orcish club) on D:1 (entry_aquarium_b) on 2013-04-02 18:20:58, with 50 points after 24 turns and 0:00:20. 06:32:10 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 06:32:14 I cannot see any obvious cause, and if there was some more general problem causing stuff to ignore depth, you'd think there'd be more untimely blade trap encounters, or something. I did various queries, but didn't see anything else that suspicious 06:32:53 !lvault entry_acquarium_b 06:33:03 !vault entry_acquarium_b 06:33:06 Couldn't find entry_acquarium_b in the Crawl source tree 06:33:13 !vault entry_aquarium_b 06:33:15 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/7299409 06:33:51 hmm, nothing there 06:33:54 Yeah 06:34:05 it's worth noting that both the glyphs ^ and ~ can place traps 06:34:32 ^ will place any trap, ~ will be depth appropriate - according to https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps:syntax:glyphs 06:34:49 I just saw an Frost Giant pick up a Flame branded weapon. 06:34:53 Would that be considered a bug? 06:34:55 which is interesting and something i didn't realise until just now 06:35:27 tychotesla: I wouldn't say so, no 06:35:49 maybe he was like "hmm, this frost thing isn't working out so well, let's try fire" 06:36:37 Kind of seems... weird though. I imagine Frost Giants either have cultural or physical resistance to the use of flame. 06:37:10 But, I'm not an expert on Frost Giants, so... 06:37:11 Thanks! 06:38:47 tychotesla: what, you missed that david attenborough episode? it was fascinating 06:38:53 Haha 06:39:01 >.> 06:39:56 tychotesla: i admit it does sound a bit strange and if one was wearing e.g. a _ring_ of fire that would seem more dodgy to me 06:41:38 Hey, it could use the rF+ and afford the rC-! 06:41:53 (I don't think it actually affects their spells) 06:43:07 Finally, Frost Giants stop Min-Maxing. 06:47:34 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:48:53 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:48:55 The FG icon still shows a blue tinted sword too. 06:52:11 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:54:05 monsters do have "signature weapons" and stuff so maybe it's worth thinking about 06:54:13 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:33 i would call it a feature request rather than a bug tho 06:55:26 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:57:18 Is there a protocol for that? 06:58:18 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:00:55 I was going to report a "trivial" bug on Mantis, but thought I might check here first to see if this has been discussed before (mantis lacked mentions) and has reasoning. I'm not sure exactly how to bring this up, whether to bring it up, or who to bring it up to. 07:03:48 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:03:56 -!- Lucas_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:12:41 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:18:37 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:27:58 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:29:19 -!- s951 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:44 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 07:32:32 tychotesla: Mantis isn't for feature requests anymore, it'll get closed unless there's a patch with it. the tavern and devwiki are for more formal feature discussion and requests 07:33:06 on the other hand, other devs will read the logs here so it might get discussed anyway 07:33:25 or you could ask again when more people are around, it's not usually very busy this time of day 07:35:25 >holding a big stack of clean chunks 07:35:38 >put on amulet of gourm 07:35:40 >autoexplore 07:35:49 >it immediately eats them all uselessly 07:37:37 bit tricky to fix, i think it's kind of an info leak to know when gourm is charged up _without_ eating ... 07:37:50 how so? isnt the time taken fixed? 07:37:56 or random? 07:38:14 i'm not sure but the game doesn't explicitly tell you when it's charged 07:38:50 or even how close to charging it is when you eat a chunk 07:45:30 -!- kober has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130116073211]] 07:46:49 mumra: thank you. 07:53:17 -!- scummos_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:21 -!- dcssrubot428 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:15 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:21 -!- yalue has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:09:08 -!- [yalue] has quit [Client Quit] 08:09:22 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:17:02 -!- NekoRex has quit [Quit: "All the vain and ignorant will look up and shout 'Save us!', and I'll look down and whisper... 'Nyo.'"] 08:24:30 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:25:17 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:28 mumra: actually it charges up gradually, and you get progressively less disgusted messages when eating chunks 08:33:47 so it does tell you how close to fully charged it is, on a fairly coarse scale 08:34:30 alefury: i know, but this doesn't tell you exactly how many turns until it's fully charged (but i don't know what faze thought the correct behaviour of autoeat should really be with gourmand) 08:34:38 (i don't know what the behaviour should be either) 08:36:07 -!- spriseris has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:45 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 08:44:28 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:35 s/faze/rast 08:51:24 i agree with everything evilmike wrote about cTele btw 08:51:36 he has a lot of good points 08:52:53 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:55:09 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 08:56:53 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:57:57 -!- dcssrubot583 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:00:06 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:45 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:54 -!- Thalfon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:01:11 is there any limit to how much monsters can stack sticky flame on you? 09:01:44 its really frustrating watching all your shit burn up even with preservation 09:01:51 i dont mind the damage, RF+++ 09:03:04 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:06:37 -!- nooodl__ is now known as nooodl 09:07:51 and there arent good ways to put it out, unlike poison and most other status effects 09:08:26 are potions of water completely gone now or just extremely rare? they (did) put it out iirc? 09:08:41 they did? 09:09:09 i'm sure i remember someone saying that once, but i've never had one whilst sticky flamed to test the theory 09:09:27 i dont think they do 09:09:38 anyway they ae incredibly common... if you cast fulsome distillation 09:09:53 if fulsome distillation existed 09:10:04 i dont mind one-shot destruction as much, from fireballs or ice bolts or whatever 09:10:15 oh, its gone from .12? good 09:10:21 yes along with evap 09:10:25 you really need to play .12 09:10:34 is sticky flame gone from .12? 09:10:36 it is part of your duty to ensure the release is actually stable 09:10:45 no, sticky flame is certainly not gone 09:11:09 its the most unfun enemy effect, except maybe banishment 09:11:19 the damage isn't much with any amount of fire res 09:11:55 its just "heres a whole bunch of attacks against your scrolls, suck on it" 09:12:49 any source divers want to confirm that monsters can stack up the duration? 09:13:05 because it SEEMED like that is what just happened to me 09:13:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:35 according to the bots, casting it again just resets the duration, but thats probably just for players 09:14:24 <|amethyst> you.increase_duration(DUR_LIQUID_FLAMES, amount, 100); 09:14:31 <|amethyst> so yes 09:14:34 hilarious 09:14:38 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:14:42 is 100 the max? 09:15:00 <|amethyst> tes 09:15:02 <|amethyst> yes 09:15:12 as if any scroll would last 100 turns of sticky flame 09:15:22 do you know you can drop scrolls 09:15:35 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:15:35 -!- MAR has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:15:35 -!- NotIpsum_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:15:36 one at a time 09:15:45 do you carry 100 types of scrolls? 09:15:49 while fighting draconians 09:15:54 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:06 well its in a zig so yes i had about 10 stacks 09:16:10 now i have 10 much smaller stacks 09:16:16 er, 6 stacks 09:16:20 what scrolls are useful at that point? blinking and tele, really 09:16:26 the ones i pick up 09:16:35 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:16:36 also remove curse and ID 09:16:39 100 duration probably means 10 turns 09:16:42 and fog, of course 09:17:02 surely it is obvious that sticky flame does not last 100 turns 09:17:19 elliott: it seemed to last a long time when multiple draconians spit on me 09:17:30 ive experienced it also against packs of hell hogs 09:17:33 -!- Abom has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:17:50 well if it is resetting the counter each time then of course it can go on indefinitely 09:18:00 i think its increasing it 09:18:12 without much of a limit 09:18:40 anyway its icnredibly unfun because the actual damage is tiny but it gives many many chances to ruin your inventory 09:18:48 -!- tychotesla has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:18:58 and dropping things takes forever, during which time you're burning 09:19:10 sticky flame does more damage for characters that don't have rF+++, which is most characters 09:19:10 *your stuff is burning 09:19:13 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:19:13 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:19:22 it does d24-1, according to bot 09:19:22 anyway item destruction is annoying but I don't even notice it in a zig 09:19:35 ive noticed it before now; this is just where it got horrible 09:20:44 also, i understand the reasoning behind making each stack dropped take more time 09:20:53 unlike nethack where you can drop your whole inventory in 1 turn 09:21:12 ...but what's the reasoning behind making dropping items take so long? 09:21:20 how about .2 turns per item stack 09:21:44 or something based on weight 09:22:59 so i have 5 different scrolls... dropping them all takes the same time as reading them 09:23:21 and much longer than killing a monster 09:24:11 -!- marblegiant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:27:45 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:30:12 -!- Mottikins__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:30:42 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:34:00 rast: crawl characters are very disorganized, the time needed to read a scroll is negligible compared to the time taken to dig it out of the hellhole they call their backpack 09:34:10 same for dropping :P 09:34:53 and that applies regardless of how many items i have... 09:35:05 this is a silly argument 09:36:56 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:38:17 rast: most of the backpack space is taken up by your inflatable bedroll 09:38:22 its huge 09:43:18 let me quote some random guy: gameplay > realism 09:43:52 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar 09:44:08 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:44:41 !tell DracoOmega augmentation was unfun because it gave an _offensive_ boost at very low hp. A defensive one would make plenty of sense. 09:44:41 kilobyte: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 09:45:12 -!- rwbarton_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:49:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:50:09 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 09:53:57 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:00 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:41 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:57:57 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:12 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:00:21 -!- Escalator_ is now known as Escalator 10:01:35 -!- scummos_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:06 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:17 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:09:56 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:10:40 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:26 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:56 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:57 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:24:24 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:27:15 kilobyte: probably still not very interesting, theres already robustness to fill the "die less" niche 10:27:35 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 10:28:22 kilobyte: something like haste (that stacks with normal haste) at low hp might be interesting 10:29:36 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:29:56 -!- dcssrubot921 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:51 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:37:34 -!- cptwinky_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:41:06 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 10:41:30 -!- PsyMar2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:43:12 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:23 -!- MIC132 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:43:48 -!- Ur-Quan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:48:34 -!- madSimon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:53:03 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:53 -!- kek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55:03 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:16 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-17-g88924da: Don't advertise weapon blessings for kittehs. 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=88924da4e823 10:57:16 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-18-gdff1be3: Don't ask kittehs about pain branding, simplify. 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 30+ 33-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dff1be3199f0 10:57:16 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-19-gf447d3f: Don't give Kiku's Necronomicon a redundant inscription. 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f447d3f35592 10:58:06 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:46 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 11:04:35 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:15 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:55 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:24 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:48:55 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55:47 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:55:51 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 12:00:01 -!- dcssrubot991 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:08 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [] 12:03:58 so, how about we stop bikeshedding and just rename potion of vicissitude to potion of beneficial mutation? 12:04:08 seems to me that it's the most popular name 12:04:14 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11.2-11-g28dacbe 12:04:16 that sounds very good 12:04:57 but what is bikeshedding? 12:05:12 google it 12:05:21 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:57 youre no fun :( 12:06:02 it's about the fact that the most trivial things (how to paint the bike shed or how to name things) are the ones who are the most discussed 12:06:15 because everyone feels competent 12:06:45 yeah i read it :) 12:07:06 but thanks 12:07:26 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20121208085021]] 12:07:28 beneficial mutation seems better than good mutation, at least 12:07:37 since it can give mutations that aren't strictly good 12:17:52 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-135-gba80b28 (34) 12:24:45 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:20 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Client Quit] 12:25:28 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:25:28 -!- CKyle__ is now known as CKyle 12:26:43 -!- madreisz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:08 -!- Lucas_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:32 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:10 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:22 -!- eb has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:05 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:46 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:39:52 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 12:42:58 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:47:55 -!- myp has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:51:24 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:51:38 The bat evaporates and reforms as a boggart! 12:51:44 opps wrong channel 12:54:43 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:03:02 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:03:31 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:53 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:04:37 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:46 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:14:58 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 13:16:59 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:03 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:18:53 Spectator joining changes displayed messages in WebTiles by Medar 13:26:45 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:30:07 -!- dcssrubot910 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:21 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:02 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:18 _You see here a bug-filled silvery potion. 13:42:18 <- this is intentional, yeah? 13:43:19 You feel fantastic! 13:43:19 _Your body decomposes! 13:43:38 perhaps this should be colored if youre a vampire (or presumably other undead) :P 13:44:14 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:46:26 -!- QubeNub has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:50:53 -!- Ur-Quan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:59 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:51:06 -!- ystael_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:51:35 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:52:43 that sounds not intentional 13:53:12 i hope you didn't think my explanation was serious simmarine 13:53:20 i wasnt sure 13:53:25 yeah why did i believe elliott 13:53:38 it's fine, we all make that mistake once in a while 13:53:47 but i should know better 13:53:52 heh 13:54:09 sometimes MarvinPA believes me so much, he puts my code into crawl 13:55:00 btw bugs are pretty gross 13:56:33 btw my vpsu has done a bit of stabbing in lair. its actually pretty effective, i have 10 sbl and 10 stealth which means i have 10 stabbing now. i can see why the apts were briefly adjusted because it is essentially free exp in a way now 13:57:32 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:59:27 What's the major upgrade in 0.12? 13:59:52 simmarine: it looks like vicissitude has a 1/3 chance of working on vampires so it's not technically useless 14:00:03 wait, 1/3? why is that? 14:00:05 but gain stat was special-cased to succeed 14:00:09 er, on satiated vampires 14:00:16 the chance depends on how full you are 14:00:19 i was at full, how full would i have to be 14:00:21 oh i see 14:00:30 so full isnt guaranteed mutation 14:00:36 i shouldve been alive 14:00:38 full is coinflip, very full 2/3, etc 14:00:50 wish i quaffed to alive 14:01:14 yeah, no clue how it should be handled now 14:03:39 so I guess another potion description needs adding 14:03:45 since there are more potions now 14:03:50 oh I guess not, since gain stat was removed 14:04:02 but not really removed since it's not #if'd out or whatever and loops over all potions probably don't skip it? 14:12:55 -!- _D_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:14:35 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:15:28 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:08 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:22:08 -!- madreisz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:23 -!- Lucas___ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:23 -!- ryansee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:23 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:23 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:24 -!- dcssrubot694 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:25:45 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:33:34 -!- ZipZipskins has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:37:18 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:37:54 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:22 -!- alefury has quit [] 14:39:54 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 14:41:03 -!- AngelicHorsey has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:45:44 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:55 -!- the_glow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:08 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:37 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:45 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:30 dpeg: re your email: you say "good bye traps", but they still exist 15:03:45 alefury: yes, but they're on the way... 15:03:59 they have been for a long time :/ 15:05:41 more faith, alefury, more faith! 15:05:49 :) 15:07:06 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 15:07:46 * Grunt hands out the amulets of faith... 15:08:24 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:08:32 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:20:51 -!- Elkan has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:22:23 -!- djinni_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:22:54 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:23:54 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:51 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:25:07 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:25:24 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:26:25 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 15:35:32 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:39:04 -!- SamB_ is now known as SamB 15:39:06 -!- spriseris has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0/20130326150557]] 15:44:27 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:23 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:47:08 -!- Zermako has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:47:15 -!- Zermak is now known as Zermako 15:49:20 -!- netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:49:52 evilmike: Evening! 15:52:21 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:52:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:55:00 -!- dcssrubot749 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:09 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:03:02 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:04:03 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:14 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 16:06:23 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:06:51 hello 16:07:35 evilmike: Slightly bizarre situation regarding cTele now :) 16:08:04 btw, I wasn't aware of your proposals... either you mentioned them here while I was away, or I was too stupid to notice. 16:08:11 actually just 2 pm here, although the way my schedule works I guess it is evening :P 16:08:23 you just weren't here, the proposals were limited to some talk on irc and like 3 lines on the wiki page 16:08:38 evilmike: ah, the perils of fleeting communication 16:09:46 So many thanks for spelling it out once more! 16:09:47 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:11:02 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:31 i went into way more detail in that email than i did previously, so I wasn't totally repeating myself, just elaborating on stuff brought up before 16:12:03 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 16:12:05 yeah, was interesting 16:12:59 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:13:11 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:18 There seems to be a fundamental dispute (not just you and me) whether one should or should not take the players into account. I could imagine that artists (of any sort) face a similar conundrum. Obviously, as soon as money is involved, that's the end of the matter. 16:13:39 -!- substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:15:17 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:17:27 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17:27 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 16:17:58 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:14 yabi: if you stack up two levels of control teleport you can offset -cTele floors 16:18:23 -!- Sky_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:48 -!- nq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:48 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:19:13 -!- ryansee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:20:06 bad rast! 16:20:50 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:37 -!- kek is now known as Guest73769 16:25:49 money doesn't determine everything. I'm working on a commerical game and our producers let us do what we want. Obviously we need to deliver a good product, but they know to let the game designers do their jobs. Money gives us more freedom, if anything - it's nice having an actual budget :P 16:27:25 evilmike: that is alright... I mean more from an artists' point of view. Imagine you're a musician: there is a world of difference between making unpaid music and living from your music. 16:28:15 Anyway, I just realised that "not taking the players into account" may look strange. So let me add that I truly believe that the players get a better game if we don't design for them (but for us). 16:28:23 For me, the issue comes down to the fact that crawl has a large and established player base. They deserve to be taken into account. They aren't the only factor that should be considered, but when we have a lot of options to choose from, I think it's fine to consider how the players will feel about it 16:29:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:30:08 That's an approach I would have never come up with. 16:30:46 -!- madreisz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:31:41 When we tried to improve the basic interface (command keys, monster glyphs and colours), there was a problem: a new player will immediately benefit from the changes, anyone who has already played Crawl will dislike it (because relearning keys is never fun). We did the change, and tried to make it as palatable to oldbies as possible. I am very glad we did it. 16:32:44 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:33:26 I just don't see crawl development as entirely a matter of game design. There's a large community involved, and I feel we have some level of responsibility to them. It's fine to piss them off sometimes, but if we can avoid that and still make a good game, then great. Your example of interface changes is a good example I think 16:35:39 Like, it would have been easy to just change the keys around and force people to adapt. But instead, the defaults were changed, and people were given a choice to have things the old way. 16:36:10 rltiles Makefile uses deprecated preprocessor options by HenryFlower 16:36:53 Nothing is done with the purpose to piss people off! It may have this side effect but certainly there is some good underlying reason. 16:37:06 clearly add voluntary conducts for ctele 16:37:22 monqy: we leave this approach to lesser games 16:37:42 yeah I didn't mean to say we should intentionally piss people off. I just meant that sometimes it's fine to have that as a side effect 16:37:54 but if we can get what we want (as developers), and avoid upsetting people, that's even better 16:38:14 evilmike: perhaps because I am not a coder, my perspective is more "purist" in this regard... to me, it's almost all about balance, diversity and so on. 16:39:16 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:40:10 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:40:43 * dpeg has a hunch that evilmike would not have chosen MD as dead-species target :) 16:41:14 Twisted resurection rebalanced by khalil 16:41:49 I would've pushed for some kind of replacement rather than straight removal. I wasn't very happy with how that was handled 16:42:45 but I don't disagree with the principle of removing them, and I have no desire for them to return 16:43:52 I certainly agree that drama on MD levels is something we don't want every other release. 16:44:17 -!- woofcanine has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:44:39 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:45:27 * Grunt is reminded of a vague idea he had - cTele becoming an entirely separate thing from Tele. 16:45:38 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 16:45:44 Grunt: please explain! 16:46:06 ...wherein every time you see the Tele status, it is a random teleport, and the cTele status becomes a countdown to a controlled teleport. 16:46:23 Evoke rings of cTele to do a cTele, and possibly have a very rare "scroll of controlled teleport". 16:46:30 Spell goes away, because we don't have a teleself spell. :b 16:47:00 (Or possibly do away with the rings, depending on how the timing of a cTele works.) 16:47:09 I haven't really given this a lot of thought. 16:47:09 Grunt: sounds interesting, but evilmike's set is certainly easier to add on to what's already there 16:47:24 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 16:49:08 evilmike: I think I understand a bit better now... you're saying that player reactions are also a kind of cost (currency) and you should not be too wasteful with it. But I have no clue how much terror the line "removed cTele" will cause in their hearts. I know for sure that many unkind words were used after the Stalker and Evaporate removals. 16:51:00 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:52:32 I'm not sure if I would use the analogy of a currency, I don't think this is something that can be quantified, really. 16:52:47 I think it's more of an ethical consideration, than anything else. 16:53:23 fwiw, probably over half of the comments I've seen on tavern related to ctele removal were positive... some of them even thought it had already been done :P 16:53:28 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:47 elliott: funny that :) 16:54:16 the tavern and ##crawl are a very specific subset of the player base though, it's a bad idea to rely on them 16:54:21 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:36 evilmike: yes, that is true 16:56:20 I haven't been in ##crawl in quite a while, but my experience there is that it's a bit of an echo chamber. There are a few prevailing opinions (mostly good ones, but sometimes weird stuff too) which aren't necessarily popular outside the channel. The tavern is a bit similar to that 16:56:54 evilmike: hm, to me a matter of ethos is to look at comments/feedback... I don't say that players should be ignored -- my problem is with preemptively trying to avoid any bad feelings. They can chime during the process, or afterwards (or at any time, with something unrelated to current activities). 16:56:57 This seems to me to be true of a lot of the Crawl-playing communities, at least the ones I'm familiar with. 16:57:39 it's funny, I've seen different subsets of the crawl community form completely different opinions on things 16:58:06 like for a while, ##crawl was like "Chei is basically satan" and SA was like "Chei is the best god ever" 16:58:09 of course, both were wrong :P 16:58:40 * dpeg is never sure whether comparison with Satan means that something is good or bad. 16:58:52 in this case, bad 16:59:03 I figured from the context :) 16:59:29 The echo chamber observation is probably valid in much greater generality, beyond games. 16:59:36 good evening folks 16:59:43 Hi! 16:59:49 galehar: who are you again? :) 16:59:50 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:00:14 I think evilmike's proposal are worth testing. 17:00:22 galehar: I succumbed to evilmike' proposal. What now? (I wasn't aware of it beforehand, that is all I have for an excuse.) 17:00:54 regarding the player reaction, it will be certainly easier to say we removed it if we tried to nerf it before 17:01:15 * dpeg bestows on galehar an honorary Politician title. 17:01:15 but then, the question of scBlink becomes more pressing 17:01:27 semicontrolled blink is a different topic imo 17:01:33 As I said, some parts of evilmike's proposal address it a bit. 17:02:21 probably not enough 17:03:06 evilmike: do you have ideas for scBlink as well? 17:03:08 I deliberately avoided talking about it. I believe they are different effects, with different problems, and it's possible to change/remove one without affecting the other 17:03:10 can evoking the ring can come with an MP cost? 17:03:37 so, my preference is to avoid tangling these two issues together 17:03:40 galehar: sure, why not? 17:03:59 galehar: it wouldnt be the only evokable effect with an mp cost 17:04:44 I think that could help regarding scBlink 17:04:53 galehar: yes, it's a good one, imo 17:05:17 otherwise escaping by repeatedly evoking the ring the blinking is tedious. With an MP cost, well... costly :) 17:05:25 my thought about semicontrolled blink is that the effect isn't hopeless, but the implementation is stupid. Especially the way you control it by picking a direction 17:05:36 evilmike: that is the part I like most! :) 17:07:01 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 17:08:34 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:02 anyway, part of my suggestion was that ctele could immediately expire after teleporting. if that happens after a semicontrolled blink as well, that's one nerf to it 17:10:46 it still might compete too much with PoG, in that case I'd look at the spell levels too 17:11:04 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 17:11:05 I just realised that scBlinking by direction key may be less natural for mouse users. 17:11:33 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:46 well, warpers lost ctele, so there's reduced pog competition (but very possibly not enough) 17:14:23 I don't like picking a direction because that's generally not how crawl spells work, and it can be rather difficult to figure out whether a scblink is likely to "work"... the rules are too complicated 17:14:40 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:14:54 evilmike: do you have ideas for a better interface? 17:15:08 evilmike: yes, there are serious drawbacks, but the basic concept of hopping (instead of walking) into a direction is so cool! 17:15:29 frog species 17:15:44 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:50 Does it branch off into spiny frog, blink frog, etc.? 17:15:54 next April :) 17:16:05 -!- ryansee_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:16:21 although I was about to propose an April 1st "Wild wizard" background (like normal, only starts with Wild Magic 3) 17:16:28 any opposition to vicissitude -> beneficial mutation 17:16:36 +1 17:16:50 what a long bikeshed :P 17:16:58 dpeg: how about click somewhere in that direction? 17:17:24 that way you're not restricted to the numpad rose 17:17:34 galehar: targeting prompt with a limited radius (near LOS bug not quite), it shows an area of effect where it's psossible to land. If it covers occupied squares and happens to land on one, then the blink fails (and degrades to a random blink, I guess) 17:17:42 that's just a rough idea, it needs work 17:17:52 but not quite* 17:17:54 galehar: did you see the bug about vicisciscistisititude? 17:18:00 galehar: they seem to always show as "bug-filled" potions 17:18:02 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 17:18:10 elliott: not 100% of the time. 17:18:19 elliott: I got one in my most recent game and it looked normal. 17:18:25 I think I know what the problem is, though. 17:18:31 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:32 I thought that might be related to the fact that old gain stat potions don't seem to have been fully removed (like, they're still in the enums not #if'd out, and there might be loops that go over them?) 17:18:51 Appearance of potions is set at game start, so if the game was started before the potions were added, it doesn't have an appearance set. 17:19:22 Grunt: I guess the upgrade handling ought to set appearances for new types of potion, then 17:19:42 evilmike: an advantage of scBlink is that you don't have to specifiy a target (which may be confusing, if you don't know already) 17:19:43 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:44 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:21:20 is this just my rc? why does my vp have greyed out corpses when im fully capable of drinking them for nutrition? only happens when im thirsty and below 17:22:05 -!- Mottikins__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22:18 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:23:00 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleep] 17:24:49 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:25:05 -!- dcssrubot368 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:00 -!- substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:29:12 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:29:41 simmarine: it's not you, I have it too 17:29:51 okay 17:29:55 sounds like a bug 17:30:01 corpses still function 100% fine, its just greyed out is all 17:34:42 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 17:35:15 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:37:38 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:27 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:39:33 -!- morik__ is now known as morik 17:39:42 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:39:42 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:40:01 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:40:01 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 17:41:24 simmarine: still a bug 17:46:56 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:18 -!- Mottikins__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:57:12 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 17:59:05 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:58 -!- ]343[ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:02:22 -!- Naphistim has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:02:44 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:52 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:49 -!- Mottikins__ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:03 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:09:33 -!- Mottikins__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:50 -!- Mottikins__ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:18 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:12:13 03galehar 07* 0.13-a0-136-ga0475c9: Wrap lines on punctuation for chinese and japanese since they don't use spaces. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 19+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a0475c9ea395 18:12:13 03galehar 07* 0.13-a0-137-g6c43e4a: Rename vicissitude in beneficial mutation. 10(23 minutes ago, 14 files, 21+ 21-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6c43e4a00120 18:12:13 03Translators 07* 0.13-a0-138-g995e111: [Transifex] Remove !gain_foo description from translations. 10(22 minutes ago, 8 files, 0+ 96-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=995e1117bcdf 18:12:13 03Translators 07* 0.13-a0-139-g79cb806: [Transifex] Rewrap japanese and chinese by breaking lines on punctuation. 10(20 minutes ago, 24 files, 2672+ 2447-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=79cb806954a3 18:13:54 probably beneficial mutation shouldn't say "You feel fantastic" if it's going to rot you (e.g. undead/vp only sometimes) :) 18:14:36 elliott: it's a different kind of fantasy 18:14:55 heh 18:15:25 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:44 -!- alefury|2 is now known as alefury 18:18:09 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [] 18:18:12 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:30 -!- s951 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:25:39 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:02 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:04 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset 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has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:23:34 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:34:47 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:39:24 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:45 -!- johnthebear has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:35 -!- fiyawerx has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:57 * SamB thinks mutations ought to have descriptions ... 19:51:29 -!- Wolfram has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:51:47 +1 19:51:48 Eronarn: You have 70 messages. Use !messages to read them. 19:53:35 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:54:37 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:56:46 -!- ApsychicRat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:58:53 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:03 -!- santiago has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:14 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:13 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:19:58 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 20:22:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:25:15 -!- dcssrubot224 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:55 -!- varmin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:01 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:26:03 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:14 if it's going to rot you it should say "You feel dead inside..." 20:28:42 oh, and we should get some new screenshots 20:28:47 the latest ones on the website are from 0.8 20:28:56 Someone started a thread about that ages ago on tavern. 20:29:28 yeah, i remember 20:29:41 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:30:06 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:32:17 -!- dcssrubot767 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:54 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:41:04 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:41:42 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 20:46:07 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:55:51 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 20:55:56 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:04 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:19 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:06:44 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 21:09:41 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:15:07 -!- evilmike has quit [] 21:19:08 -!- qQues has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:23:39 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:07 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:36 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:42 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:28:09 -!- santiago has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:26 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:43 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:18 -!- the_glow1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:43:15 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 21:45:32 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 21:50:06 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [] 21:54:03 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:17 -!- Guest73769 has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 22:06:23 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-139-g79cb806 22:07:11 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:08:14 we should steal saves at fun points in time and automatically screenshot them 22:15:24 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:48 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:57 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:20:06 did potion of vicissitude get named? 22:20:14 ??potion of vicissitude 22:20:14 I don't have a page labeled potion_of_vicissitude in my learndb. 22:20:17 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:19 to beneficial mutation 22:22:13 works for me 22:22:30 Step 1. Give something a bad name, Step 2. Let someone else name it 22:22:48 the vicissitude of names 22:28:25 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 22:28:56 What day should we pull Jesters on? 22:29:30 <|amethyst> 1 April, 2014 :P 22:29:35 ouch. 22:29:56 <|amethyst> we could start the nerfing-to-oblivion now 22:30:40 <|amethyst> Gradually change them until they're exactly the same as CK, then remove them for being a duplicate 22:31:00 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:31:11 make them more overpowered until they have to be removed imo 22:31:18 <|amethyst> or that :) 22:31:19 you can already get like 18 stealth on D:1 as a sp with them! 22:31:53 o_0 22:32:10 s/18/27/ 22:32:15 (sacrifice potion of porridge, draw out deck, get wonders deck gift, draw it out, quit if you don't get an experience card) 22:32:20 Grunt: yes but that's rather unlikely 22:32:38 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:12 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:33:54 `Your Stealth skill gained 15 levels and is now at level 16!` 22:34:00 I just did it on my first try 22:34:25 what happens if you get two of them? 22:35:23 then you get more (but not that much more) 22:35:32 anyway it doesn't matter for something that's only there for a week 22:35:37 nemelex is op anyway :P 22:35:50 ^ that 22:36:06 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:36:38 I wonder if I can stab the whole dungeon to death 22:36:40 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:37:27 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0a2/20130401042013]] 22:37:53 I really shouldn't have entered wizmode on this game 22:38:47 start again? 22:41:15 ??spriggan 22:41:16 spriggan[1/4]: Spriggans move two-thirds faster than most and have seven magic resistance per level (not three), but can't wear most armour and have the second-lowest natural HP of any race. They have bad aptitudes for melee skills (except short blades), but have enormous EV and are good at stealth, stabbing and related magics. 22:41:53 yeah. 22:41:58 * SamB wonders if spriggans could get a bonus to carrying capacity somehow 22:42:26 SamB: send an e-mail to the list and announcing that you're nerfing spriggans by increasing their carrying capacity. 22:42:34 ... what? 22:43:14 2/2! 22:43:37 ... you're half kidding in two different ways? 22:44:05 yep. This time I went with Stealth 12, Tloc 9 22:44:10 tloc 8 22:47:05 bh: I think that jester should stay around until the end of the weekend at least, since many players don't have time during the week 22:47:23 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:47:32 elliptic: sounds good. 22:50:13 yeah. jester is completely imba. 22:51:10 vampiric dagger. I bet I'm going to YASD this 22:53:30 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:56:32 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:09 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 22:59:28 * SamB takes stealth and short blades 23:02:48 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:29 why will Insulation be removed? 23:05:30 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Client Quit] 23:06:44 -!- faz_ has quit [] 23:08:40 -!- yogaFLAM_ is now known as yogaFLAME 23:08:40 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:08:40 it was already removed, ages ago 23:10:06 why? 23:11:34 %git HEAD^{/Insulation} 23:11:34 03MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-164-gd09f384: Remove the Insulation spell 10(8 months ago, 17 files, 13+ 30-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d09f384b95c5 23:11:54 was just about to say, i imagine it says in the commit message 23:11:59 and lo and behold 23:12:24 ??potion of resistance 23:12:24 potion of resistance[1/2]: Gives temporary resistance to fire, cold, electricity, and poison. Duration is between 10 and 29 turns. Nice against Nikola and on Zot:5. 23:12:31 ^ that's why, rast 23:12:41 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:14 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:46 -!- Adeon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:16:23 stabbing isnt a skill in .12? 23:16:40 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:40 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:40 -!- scorchgeek has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:40 -!- Adeon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:40 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:40 -!- Anag- has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:40 -!- faz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:40 -!- Pedjt has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:40 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:43 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:50 -!- nonethousand_ is now known as nonethousand 23:16:51 -!- Pthing has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16:55 %git HEAD^{/Stab} 23:16:56 03kilobyte * 0.13-a0: The Stabbing skill went to a dark alley, and, you know... 10(3 days ago, 18 files, 121+ 29-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7ae94216669e 23:16:57 rast: stabbing is a mix of stealth and short blades 23:17:05 -!- elliott_ is now known as elliott 23:18:07 also it is 23:18:14 that isn't a 0.12 change 23:19:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:23:56 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:24:50 -!- Egglet has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:24:53 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:29:37 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:29:47 you know, I don't think it counts as deck scumming if it happens 100% of the time ... 23:30:12 heh. 23:32:02 -!- noms_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:32:55 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:06 hmm, but it doesn't happen 100% of the time, I just had it not happen 23:38:45 rast: we're playing 0.13 now 23:40:01 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:46:05 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 23:50:54 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:28 -!- Parak_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:38 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 23:55:32 -!- SoulOfTheInterne has joined ##crawl-dev 23:55:48 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:56:00 -!- doome has quit []