00:00:38 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11.2-11-g28dacbe 00:02:00 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:35 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2791-g4f89f62 (34) 00:11:15 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:19:47 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 00:27:56 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:28:57 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:14 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:28 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:31:15 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:38 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:04 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:35:06 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 00:38:30 -!- Taco_Princess has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:57 -!- neynt has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:57:28 -!- gluop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:11 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:01:59 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:07 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2791-g4f89f62 (34) 01:03:41 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:52 for some reason I thought that overflow altars didn't appear on D:1 01:03:57 am I confused? 01:05:29 I think overflow vaults don't, but that doesn't mean you can't get an altar vault there anyway 01:05:59 yeah, I think some can spawn even if not specifically planned for 01:06:36 I'm not one to complain about getting the god I wanted nearly within sight of game start :) 01:06:45 seemed unusual though 01:06:48 jost on general vaultiness 01:07:19 so you might see another altar to that god 01:07:43 DracoOmega: thanks for the autoexplore update! 01:08:11 You're welcome :) 01:08:23 I just hope I didn't break something else in the process somehow :P 01:08:52 I only read the commit message and not the commit. Is there any possibility of it thrashing? 01:09:04 Running back and forth, you mean? 01:09:07 There shouldn't be 01:09:07 yep 01:09:29 It only tries to path through temporary obstructions if there's nowhere else to go 01:09:29 even with cloud generators in vaults? 01:09:30 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:09:37 Well, those usually place exclusions, no? 01:09:42 true 01:09:51 And thus the exclusions would stop autoexplore, even if the clouds wouldn't 01:10:05 So this is basically for one-shot clouds somewhere 01:10:37 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 01:12:04 I hate crazy yiuf. 01:12:26 Slain by a bat (1 damage) ... while paralysed by Crazy Yiuf 01:12:47 he's like Grinder. 01:13:01 Well, except he can't go anything to you unless you get in melee range of him 01:13:22 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2791-g4f89f62 01:13:25 And can't blink in front of you 01:13:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:23 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:17:39 dang. there are a bunch of murderlicious minmay vaults 01:27:17 -!- SetecAstronomy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:29:45 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:32:01 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:04 -!- cocofalco has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:49:17 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:53:41 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:34 -!- NuclearFrisson has quit [Quit: BYE] 02:02:35 -!- home has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:12:55 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-2792-g6b0651e: Axe rock troll shapeshifters and rock troll zombies/skeletons. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b0651ea37d1 02:19:07 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 02:21:40 -!- Villadelfia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:57 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:23:32 -!- artless has quit [Quit: artless] 02:30:11 -!- animegrampa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:33:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:47:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:59:38 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:00:35 rip 03:00:45 i just killed a rock troll zombie too :[ 03:01:05 One of the last of its kind 03:08:34 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:53 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:13:37 03HangedMan 07* 0.12-a0-2793-g164fcaa: Volcano monster set revamp, some volcano edits 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 391+ 437-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=164fcaaae7ca 03:13:37 03DracoOmega 07* 0.12-a0-2794-g57cc409: Properly update position info for subvaults when main vault is transformed 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 49+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=57cc409874b7 03:13:37 03DracoOmega 07* 0.12-a0-2795-gd383fcf: Also list subvault names when listing vault info in wizmode 10(80 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d383fcfde185 03:13:37 03DracoOmega 07* 0.12-a0-2796-g3578d3b: Unregister subvaults when their parent vault is unregistered 10(49 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3578d3b0b045 03:13:37 03DracoOmega 07* 0.12-a0-2797-g1e1477e: Unregister vaults when placing a vault via &P 10(47 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1e1477edaba3 03:13:37 03DracoOmega 07* 0.12-a0-2798-g93fbd7a: Give fungiform a tile 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=93fbd7a0a047 03:14:02 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:18:19 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:25:49 Well, that force lance crash was amusing, in that it turns out the assert happened in the middle of a DIFFERENT assert 03:29:49 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 03:33:51 03DracoOmega 07* 0.12-a0-2799-gc8c725e: Don't crash when the player casts force lance at themselves 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c8c725ebfc3b 03:35:54 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:43:49 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:24 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:59:49 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:07:26 -!- johnstein_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:53 -!- johnstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:09:06 -!- johnstein_ is now known as johnstein 04:17:33 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:21:42 -!- superc has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:33:51 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:36:49 -!- dcssrubot262 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:43:09 -!- Ogdred_ has quit [Client Quit] 05:06:47 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:06:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 05:10:25 -!- bonghitz has quit 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##crawl-dev 07:24:43 -!- Sepik121 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:24:45 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:07 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:29:51 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:57 !tell bh is fungiform supposed to be able to use spells? Most bad_forms (including pig) can't, and this makes the no move when in view restriction largely inconsequential. 07:30:57 kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know. 07:31:33 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: bye] 07:50:53 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:58:13 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:54 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:58 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:20:57 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 08:22:19 -!- Ahrin has quit [] 08:29:21 -!- santiago has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:03 -!- zero_one has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:55:32 -!- neynt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:01:04 -!- tw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:23 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:02:51 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 09:04:58 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:05:06 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:06 -!- dcssrubot408 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:26 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 09:09:03 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 09:11:36 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:47 -!- tswett has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 09:31:54 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:34:52 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:03 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-2800-g018ee39: Typo fix. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=018ee396988d 09:48:59 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:06 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:10 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02:17 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:41 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:55 -!- kek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:16 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:29:05 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:12 -!- dcssrubot113 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:41:06 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:48:56 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:28 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 10:57:11 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:57:56 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:58:55 Crash at libc at ... at libstdc++(delete) at libstdc++(basic_string::_Rep::_M_destroy) at ... at crawl(menu_colour_item_prefix) by vimpulse 11:00:58 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:06:51 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 11:09:51 -!- vimpulse has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:50 hi all. :) I just filed Crawl 0.11.0 crash bug https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6789 -- "Crash at libc at ... at libstdc++(delete) at libstdc++(basic_string::_Rep::_M_destroy) at ... at crawl(menu_colour_item_prefix)". 11:12:54 I'm not such a good programmer, and I'm trying to understand the stack trace that Crawl generated. 11:12:58 In the stack trace I attached to the bug, one of the middle lines says "crawl(menu_colour_item_prefix(item_def const&, bool)+0x1f)". 11:13:02 The line below it says "crawl(item_needs_autopickup(item_def const&)+0x2e3)". 11:13:02 Does this mean that the latter function called the former function? 11:15:21 -!- TacoPrincess has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:53 <|amethyst> vimpulse: yes 11:17:09 <|amethyst> vimpulse: I just added a comment to the bug 11:17:49 <|amethyst> vimpulse: I wouldn't focus on that code *too* much, because it sounds like heap corruption and that could have happened anywhere 11:18:41 <|amethyst> vimpulse: (also, note that static functions generally don't list their names in the backtrace: in particular, the line above menu_colour_item_prefix is for _item_prefix 11:18:44 <|amethyst> ) 11:19:22 ah. thank you for clarifying. 11:19:25 Is it worth still filing crash bugs for a version as old as 0.11.0 by the way? 11:19:36 <|amethyst> vimpulse: I'd definitely recommend running crawl under valgrind; it's fairly slow, but that will track every single memory access to make sure it's in bounds 11:19:47 <|amethyst> vimpulse: oh, 0.11.0 11:20:03 <|amethyst> %git stone_soup-0.11 11:20:03 03|amethyst * 0.11.2-11-g28dacbe: Ignore absence of ISFLAG_KNOW_PROPERTIES for non-artefacts. 10(23 hours ago, 2 files, 5+ 16-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=28dacbed28a3 11:20:11 <|amethyst> vimpulse: probably not, since 0.11 has all kinds of bugfixes since then 11:21:50 <|amethyst> maybe see if you can reproduce it with latest 0.11 (or trunk even) 11:22:20 |amethyst: I doubt I could. See my latest bug comment. I can't remember how I triggered the bug in the first place. :) 11:22:24 <|amethyst> but I suspect, since we don't really know what you were doing that could have triggered the corruption (or even when it happened) 11:22:27 <|amethyst> yeah 11:22:42 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:51 Maybe it would be helpful for me to run Crawl inside ttyrec or one of its competitors. 11:23:41 <|amethyst> or to play online :) 11:24:20 -!- Moredread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:28 :) 11:24:52 <|amethyst> Since this is 0.11.0 and since it's not likely to be reproducible, I'm going to mark it as "resolved/unable to reproduce" 11:25:14 <|amethyst> re-open it if you do manage to reproduce it in latest 0.11 or trunk 11:25:24 |amethyst: Fine. Sounds good. Thanks for reading the bug report and discussing the bug with me. 11:28:56 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:29:55 -!- TacoPrincess has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:31:09 -!- vimpulse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:32 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:02:44 -!- CampinSam has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:04:25 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11.2-11-g28dacbe 12:05:35 -!- TacoPrincess has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:07:17 -!- dcssrubot30 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:51 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2800-g018ee39 (34) 12:13:24 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14:53 -!- CampinSam has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:48 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:07 -!- syraine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:25:33 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:53 03mumra 07* 0.12-a0-2801-g1acb738: Allow kraken to use tentacles with no adjacent water 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 12-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1acb738e4891 12:29:53 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-2802-gf4b0cdf: Comment fixes. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f4b0cdf3860b 12:30:06 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 12:31:51 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:18 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:53 -!- TacoPrincess has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:19 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:42:03 -!- kek has quit [Quit: restart x] 12:46:02 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:39 -!- rossi_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:23 -!- Sepik121 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:45 -!- XeNeNe is now known as xenene 12:50:47 -!- xenene is now known as Xenene 12:51:42 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:54:14 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 12:55:10 Krakens can be trampled to solid land by Medar 12:59:01 -!- sbanwart has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:06:17 -!- Xenene has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:19 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 13:07:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:57 -!- SexyAcids has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:52 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:10:08 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:10:27 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:13:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:20:21 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:51 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:31:00 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzblami 13:37:22 -!- dcssrubot735 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:35 -!- Guest77698 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:43:47 -!- j__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:42 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:50:52 -!- Xenene_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:51:56 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 14:02:07 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:02:50 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:01 -!- stanzblami has quit [Quit: glotz] 14:19:46 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:24:29 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 14:25:44 -!- Guest77698 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 14:28:36 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:33:50 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:36:14 misleading guidelines for portal vault description by rob 14:36:35 very interesting chei 14:37:09 that's an old ticket i added a comment too, chei is perhaps a little forgetful ... 14:40:29 he's a little slow 14:42:46 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:45:13 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:21 Hi 14:45:21 dpeg: You have 7 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:45:42 Another day, another crazy pet idea... 14:46:02 Who's up for removal of cTele (spell and ring)? 14:46:34 (If anyone cares, I can explain.) 14:46:54 dpeg: there's already a patch written 14:47:10 at least a few people in here i think, yeah 14:47:19 but last time it was brought up here, there was a decent amount of opposition 14:47:25 myself included at least 14:48:13 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:23 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:48:37 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:45 I think we should remove cTele, but probably best to wait until 0.13 14:49:46 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 14:50:58 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:52:06 elliptic: opposition by devs? 14:52:17 elliptic: sure, I am never talking about specific versions 14:52:29 !seen kilobyte 14:52:29 I last saw kilobyte at Sun Mar 17 12:30:57 2013 UTC (7h 21m 32s ago) saying '!tell bh is fungiform supposed to be able to use spells? Most bad_forms (including pig) can't, and this makes the no move when in view restriction largely inconsequential.' on ##crawl-dev. 14:54:07 kilobyte: ok to remove corpse sacrifices for Lugonu, imo. You know that I have a grand plan for the old lady, but there'd be no corpse sacrifices then anyway. 14:55:32 dpeg: iirc evilmike was opposed to the idea and a couple other devs were a bit dubious as well (though possibly just by the abruptness of it) 14:55:34 elliptic, MarvinPA: fine to keep cBlink as spell and scroll? (Someone argued against those, but I think cTele is the main culprit.) 14:55:45 I like blinking scrolls quite a bit 14:55:48 the spell is more questionable 14:55:51 me too 14:56:33 blinking scrolls require interesting choices to use and are a consumable, cTele just means that the first teleport that goes off is guaranteed to take you to safety rather than prolonging the tension by landing you somewhere interesting 14:56:41 exactly! 14:57:37 I have to leave now so I can't summarize the counterarguments, but maybe someone else here can 14:57:49 thx, have fun 14:57:56 there was also discussion of possible changes that could be made to cTele short of removing it 14:58:01 I made my argument last time this came up, I can't remember when the irc logs were 14:58:38 evilmike: sorry, I don't think I've been around. 14:59:54 My reasons against cTele are: (1) inelegant design b/c we have to disable it on special levels; (2) cTele paired with Blink is a cheap way to trivialise the game; (3) invoke Tele, swap in cTele is also too cheap imo. 15:00:34 !tell kilobyte Ok to remove corpse sacrifices for Lugonu, imo. You know that I have a grand plan for the old lady, but there'd be no corpse sacrifices then anyway. 15:00:34 dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 15:02:51 More broadly speaking, I believe that the game would be a lot more richer if Haste and cTele are gone... if you cannot dope yourself so easily, then actions against the monsters might become attractive after all. 15:03:28 my argument against was that it's good to give the player many options for dealing with certain areas without fighting, however I agree with all of those points and would rather remove the spell and ring and have it in some other very limited form 15:03:46 but on the other hand, I also don't care if it goes entirely 15:03:57 my argument was that controlled teleports may be uninteresting, but outright removal is boring too. the problem with controlled teleports is that there are no interesting drawbacks to them. so I think the correct solution is to add interesting drawbacks to it. Removing it without even trying to fix it is lazy design 15:04:47 In any case, it would be a bad idea to do this for 0.12 unless you want the release to be delayed, this sort of change isn't a small one 15:05:02 mainly I think everyone dislikes ctele+blink and ctele+escape teleport right? 15:05:15 what I'd like to keep is ctele+teleport into danger 15:05:17 st_: are there any other uses? :) 15:05:26 ah, I see 15:05:27 dpeg: ctele into runes 15:05:55 evilmike: I am definitely not talking about 0.12! 15:07:06 the vault:$ ctele to the side is sort of ctele into good positoning, but also it's an escape and a ctele to rune 15:07:08 st_: can only teleport to runes in a few cases, though... 15:07:28 -!- dcssrubot458 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:37 I would also say that the game would be a lot richer if _a lot_ of things were stripped out or removed. I don't think that game would feel like crawl any more 15:08:24 evilmike: I think my point is that in the case of cTele (and also Haste) we open a lot of currently hidden/dormant gameplay! 15:08:56 Removal of two very concrete pieces to activate a lot of other bits. 15:08:58 I don't see the inherent problem with haste 15:09:18 The dominance of haste renders so many other things worse or even useless. 15:10:15 What do you do in a tough situation? It's always haste first, no matter what. Again, the blame does not lie with the potion (although the wand already is problematic, imo.) 15:11:36 Control teleporting away from a mermaid's mesmerize by Pseudonut 15:14:38 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:18:36 galehar has just commented on the forum thread that made me ask here: "I like the idea of removing all forms of cTele and degrading cBlink to scBlink. I don't think it's worth to try to nerf it, removal seems better to me. The scroll should be degraded too and behave like the spell, for consistency." is what he says. 15:18:49 I agree with everything but the scroll bit but that's really a minor bit. 15:26:11 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:26:33 imo make ctele a potion 15:26:53 Guess I bring it up once 0.12 is out, probably with an email. I'll try to remember the arguments against as well. 15:27:41 dpeg: I agree with your post that without haste other forms of gaining an advantage would arise, but because of the MR system that sort of doesn't work against most stuff 15:27:54 like almost all of the stuff you'd haste against 15:30:20 st_: I am not saying it'd magically work all at once... but we need to address the MR issues anyway. With Haste no longer the panic button no. 1, there'll be more attention on hexes and the other charms, I hope. 15:31:00 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:51 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:17 dpeg: sorry but I quite don't get you. What exactly new options do get opened by removal of Haste and cTele? There are arguments for the latter, some even good, but axing it would remove options rather than add them. 15:38:17 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:39:07 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:13 hexes will mostly be garbage (for both player and monsters) until the way MR works is fixed. I don't know a good way of doing this, sorry 15:39:18 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:40:06 -!- freefall has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:36 haste by itself is no panic button, you need to do something besides hasting. It merely significantly improves your character for a short time, with important choices "when to haste". You do that too early and end up glowing when you're in real need. 15:41:31 if there's a problem i'd suggest looking at the duration of the spell, and consider making it shorter than what consumables give you 15:41:37 kilobyte: yes, but if you can operate Haste properly, then it is a completely reliable turbo for any character. There is little interesting in "please make me twice as good for the time being", at least not if you can do it without abandon. 15:42:03 "twice"? :p 15:42:12 one-and-a-half 15:43:08 btw, that is part of why I think Haste should go, too: it has been extremely strong, so it got nerfed, but it still sits at the top... we've seen this before, and in the end the sentence was removal (again, that's only an issue with spells) 15:44:42 I like removals and simplification, but once you go too far, there's no more for the player to do. We don't want the game scriptable. 15:45:07 kilobyte: currently, Haste is part of the script! 15:45:14 knowing when to haste is a non-trivial decision, as glow lasts quite a bit 15:45:14 exactly 15:45:21 evilmike: I cannot fix MR either, but I don't see a principal reason why monster incapacitation shouldn't work in Crawl. 15:45:26 remove it, and invis becomes a no-brainer 15:45:33 . . . 15:46:10 anyway, I came here to ask for cTele 15:46:50 * dpeg sees the future of the Charms school, and the future looks bleak. 15:46:53 DracoOmega argued strongly yesterday for another removal: nausea 15:47:10 dpeg: you mean, merging them with Hexes into Enchantments? :p 15:47:15 ah, I missed that 15:47:39 kilobyte: no. Perhaps buffs should just not be spammable. 15:47:47 pretty much everyone agreed with him, at least to a degree, but I have a hunch that if someone is going to protest, that's you 15:48:39 Brogue has invisibility, haste, levitation etc. but all in potion form. The only buff spell (staff in Brogue) is protection. This is definitely deliberate: there are haste spells for allies. 15:49:37 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:49:43 in brogue the protection spell lets you make yourself permanently invincible if you enchant it a lot. this was supposedly fixed in the most recent version (I think it's still broken, just in a different way) 15:49:43 kilobyte: nah, it is fine. I am not happy with Crawl's food game. We cannot scrap it, and my attempt to help make it richer backfired, so I certainly wouldn't object making it slimmer. 15:49:53 the game added items that let you cast buffs on yourself quite a while ago 15:50:30 evilmike: yes, but Brogue gets away with that for a good number of reasons. SOmetimes it's a pity and pain to be Crawl :( 15:50:56 (You are referring to charms, I assume.) 15:51:05 * kilobyte compares the number of players who think Crawl is better to those who prefer Brogue. 15:51:36 That is like asking people whether they prefer the US or Poland :) You know who will win, and we both know they're wrong :) 15:51:53 What do you do in a tough situation? It's always haste first, no matter what. 15:51:58 this isn't actually true, fyi 15:52:03 ah, good to know 15:52:07 you often want to teleport before hasting 15:52:13 alright 15:52:16 since haste doesn't make teleports go off sooner 15:52:20 yes 15:52:39 or blink, heal, etc... haste only starts to give benefits a handful of turns after you start it 15:52:53 if the monster hasn't seen me i sometimes step back one step before haste 15:53:11 hexes will mostly be garbage (for both player and monsters) until the way MR works is fixed. 15:53:19 I don't think hexes are anything close to garbage, sorry 15:53:22 not sure why you think that 15:53:23 anyway, I think Haste is less problematic than cTele anyway 15:53:27 or what is wrong with MR 15:54:14 I assume he means they don't "proc" against pretty much anything in late/extended 15:54:25 elliptic: I thought there's concensus that Hexes and MR are ... inferior. 15:54:29 like liches, greater demons, etc. 15:54:40 dpeg: I haven't heard any such consensus... 15:54:49 I'm not even sure what it *means* to call MR "inferior" 15:55:27 -!- Nickajeglin has quit [] 15:55:30 BlastHardcheese: some hexes work against large parts of extended already, and the same could be said about a lot of other stuff... extended is different, so different things work 15:55:31 elliptic: sorry, I just try to convey how I gathered things were seen. I am not a good player, as you know. 15:55:34 poison magic is less useful, etc 15:56:13 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:28 and monster hexes are among the most dangerous things already... 15:56:41 I didn't mean they're ineffective, I meant that I dislike the design behind them. I don't like the way MR is this catch-all resist for several different effects, and is all or nothing 15:56:58 MR isn't any more all or nothing than EV is 15:57:00 or SH 15:57:07 monster hexes are extremely dangerous, but that just means I value MR over most other resists, load up on it, and hardly ever get affected by hexes 15:57:21 elliptic: there are monsters you can't hit at all then? 15:57:30 you have to choose one resist over another 15:57:48 st_: it's rare that a hex has 0 chance of success 15:58:10 ....and the game should always tell you -- does it? 15:58:26 I assumed that evilmike was referring to this idea I keep seeing brought up about how hexes should have partial effects when partially resisted and such 15:58:31 which I don't particularly like, though it could work 15:58:35 it tries too, but it's not very good at it 15:58:47 I don't think it would work without redesigning most of the debuffs in crawl :( 15:59:10 evilmike: you make the choice to use lots of MR items over other stuff... not everyone makes that choice 15:59:19 not everyone even *finds* lots of MR items 15:59:28 import songs from sil, sort charms and hexes at the same time 15:59:51 Like, some monsters the game tells you are immune to magic, and for those hexes literally has no chance of success. But other mosnters just have an absurd level of MR, and even with a scroll of vulnerability you're wasting your time if you attempt to debuff them 15:59:59 (that was in response to dpeg) 16:00:01 st_: please explain, if you think it may help us. 16:00:38 dpeg: in sil, magic is replaced by singing songs, which either affect you or the monsters, and drain you voice while you sing them 16:01:03 though, it wasn't an entirely serious suggestion 16:01:30 Lemuel (L20 DsFi) ERROR: range check error (70 / 70) (D (Sprint)) 16:01:49 !lm Lemuel sprint type=crash -log 16:01:50 1. Lemuel, XL20 DsFi, T:3019 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Lemuel/crash-Lemuel-20130317-210132.txt 16:02:03 i find songs kind of boring in sil, there are only a few effects that feel all that fun to use 16:02:31 as durational buffs they work better than what crawl has, but it's still mostly +stat type stuff 16:02:39 I think sil songs are pretty good design, but stealing them for crawl would be a bit tricky 16:03:22 stealing always means adapintg... 16:03:23 evilmike: right, you could have much more "magic"y effect if we did have them in crawl though 16:03:44 dpeg: you talk ctele, haste and MR at once?!? Are you trolling? ;) 16:03:54 galehar: it got out of hand :/ 16:04:11 As a troll, I get my MR directly from Trog! 16:04:23 we should focus on ctele if we want anything to be done 16:04:27 * Grunt walks off with dpeg's piety... 16:04:28 or maybe rMsl... 16:04:37 I try to say that, but I lose. 16:04:51 galehar: I will bring up cTele in a c-r-d mail once 0.12 is out. 16:05:09 yes, good idea 16:05:37 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:05:46 galehar: also, I learned that MR is in a better shape than I thought, so it was not invain (for me). 16:06:37 Grunt: I should stick with the gods, the only bit where I feel somewhat comfortable these days. But that forum thread about cTele made me jump to action... 16:08:55 -!- ApsychicRat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:13:33 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:23 * kilobyte is quite nauseated at the sight of DracoOmega and dpeg together. 16:14:29 Pfff 16:14:29 DracoOmega: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:14:32 DracoOmega: Hi there! 16:14:35 Hey! 16:14:55 recap: DracoOmega proposes axing nausea but making contam chunks give only 1/2 rather than 2/3 nutrition 16:14:57 DracoOmega: I don't have objections against whatever your plans are with food. 16:15:03 kilobyte: time to remove nausea, then! :) 16:15:33 Sounds good, then :) 16:15:38 DO IT 16:15:45 please please please please 16:15:56 ah, what would Linley say? 16:16:01 By the bye, whatever is or isn't done with cTele or the cBlink spell, I do strongly opposed making blinking scrolls semi-controlled or whatnot 16:16:08 (In reference to previous discussion) 16:16:23 whichever dev submits the first remove nausea patch becomes the #1 best dev 16:16:27 "They took the Tomb, they took Mountain Dwarves, and now they're taking nausea? Enough!" 16:16:41 I bet DracoOmega already has something in the works in that respect, eeviac. 16:16:42 I think nausea will be mourned by precisely no one 16:16:57 * dpeg makes a note to mourn silently. 16:17:00 Grunt: I spent like 8 straight hours yesterday fixing things with subvaults, so I didn't get anything else done after that :P 16:17:04 Oh. 16:17:20 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2803-g4777205: Don't suggest that demigods may worship elsewhere. 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4777205867e5 16:17:20 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2804-g4831c04: Allow vaults to be placed closer to the edge, in branches other than Shoals. 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4831c0482ccc 16:17:20 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2805-gf6a8ec4: Count stabs on the action dump. 10(9 hours ago, 4 files, 28+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f6a8ec43dbf3 16:17:20 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2806-gf51dce8: Make deep dwarf necromancers lightblue. 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f51dce8a092c 16:17:20 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2807-g757b3c6: Remove an untrue piece of documentation. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=757b3c6f3441 16:17:20 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2808-g81b1c4c: Test whether bazaars from Pan still work. 10(2 years ago, 1 file, 20+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=81b1c4c36261 16:17:20 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2809-gcb9f3c5: Drop some braces. 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cb9f3c511163 16:17:20 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2810-gda92774: Make disc of storms less crashy when used near map edges. 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=da9277494b85 16:17:30 * kilobyte goes to axe it. 16:17:46 -!- animegrampa has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:17:56 axing nausea is fine by me, though I don't hate it as much as many seem to 16:18:19 I'm not bothered strongly by it, but it does seem to be more nuissance than adding anything of value 16:18:42 it will make ddbe and ddhe speedruns a lot easier 16:18:46 And I tend to think that stuff which bothers a lot of people yet doesn't seem to be adding value should be strongly looked at 16:18:59 Yes, I suppose it will affect healers 16:19:00 Brogue has vomiting (in that game, nausea makes you loses moves, so it actually matters)... and "The pixie vomits profusely. The unicorn vomits profusely. You vomit profusely." That's the mark of good flavour! Where will Crawl get its vomit now? 16:19:13 I'm not really sure there's much point in having the plain/contam distinction at all without nausea, though 16:19:28 less nutrition is completely uninteresting 16:19:35 elliptic: agreed 16:19:37 elliptic: Well, I had thought that contam chunks would give notably less nutrition to people that would ordinarily have risked nausea 16:19:50 half nutrition means you press ee twice as often 16:19:52 I suppose it doesn't matter a whole lot, though 16:20:13 yes, this would be a good point to brainstorm how we can keep eating but make it happen less often 16:21:42 elliptic: That may be true, but I suppose one effect was that areas heavy on contam corpses but with few others tended to consume more permafood. Not that the exact way it played out before needs to be preserved somehow 16:21:54 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:55 Since the fact that you used more permafood there didn't really tax almost anyone's reserves anyway 16:22:04 So it's probably kind of incidental 16:22:09 well, orc has 21850909 corpses 16:22:43 so making chunks give even a third normal nutrition wouldn't cause much permafood eating I think 16:22:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:00 I've been playing *lots* of Brogue the last weeks... what if all corpse eating came with a potential temporary stat loss? 16:23:44 That mostly sounds like another nuissance, to be honest 16:23:46 You wouldn't starve in Crawl, as there's always a corpse nearby, but you'd somehow like it better without dining on corpses. 16:24:25 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:35 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:24:42 DracoOmega: Brogue has only permafood, the food clock is extremely tight, and the game reaps so many rewards from that basic proposition. Crawl cannot just do that, as its scope is way too big, but I am definitely envious of Brogue in this regard. 16:25:16 Yes, food can certainly be more meaningful in some games, but I do struggle to find a way for it to be so in Crawl without major systemic changes (which I do not expect would be for the better) 16:26:03 Mostly the Crawl food clock discourages excessive use of highly hungering abilities, but as long as you don't do that, you will almost never be in real danger. That seems to be the sole net effect for most characters 16:26:26 DracoOmega: I agree, and I think that's far too little the game gains for the effort. 16:27:04 instead of reducing the nutrition from chunks, we can reduce the number of chunks, effectively reducing the amount of food instead of making you eat more often 16:27:28 risk of stat loss from contaminated chunks seems interesting too 16:27:30 galehar: yes, and I think that's been done already for a first round. 16:27:46 dpeg: and I think more is needed. There are still too many chunks 16:27:59 agreed 16:28:00 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 16:28:20 Since corpses have so many uses in Crawl, I'd be shy to cut down on corpses, but we can certainly cut on chunks. 16:28:23 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:28:28 Well, chunks have uses, too! 16:28:28 there's no real need for large dudes to give 7 chunks 16:28:40 Sublimation of blood and simulacrum, at least 16:29:12 yes, but easier to estimate than tinkering with corpses (I believe) 16:29:27 giving less chunks might call for ghoul adjustment though 16:29:35 their slow healing is annoying enough as is 16:29:39 giving a monster 3 chunks instead of 7 doesn't do much 16:29:45 eeviac: no such change with follow up tweaks 16:29:47 so, how about putting back sickness for contaminated chunks but without the HP noregen. Only stat loss 16:29:59 Well, sickness rarely caused stat loss anyway 16:30:05 unless you have gourmand or are carnivore, you won't get through more than 2 chunks in a stack unless you are doing something extremely hungering 16:30:11 DracoOmega: chance is our choice! 16:30:43 Well, if some changes to corpse eating are desired, I think it might be good to figure out what we are hoping to accomplish as a result. And 'make food more meaningful' is too general a goal, I think 16:30:52 I'm not really sure I see the point of stat loss for chunk-eating 16:30:55 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:02 Like, are we trying to penalize particular behaviors? 16:31:03 only DD ever cared about that with sickness previously when we had it 16:31:04 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:14 And if so, which ones and why? 16:31:21 (When I suggested "chance for stat loss from chunks", I meant all chunks. Obviously, that's susbstantial and will ask for permafood chances. dtsund would point out he has a solution :) 16:31:40 elliptic: no loss (since chunks 3..7 are decoration), and it matters for simulacrum (ok, no one uses that) and sublimation 16:31:43 I'd rather just make chunks simpler... remove contamination 16:31:52 elliptic: +1 16:32:16 Yes, I think there's no point to complication unless we can think of something meaningful that is added by it 16:32:20 elliptic: the idea is to have an actual, but not too strong drawback of all chunk eating. 16:32:31 New branch created: no_nausea (1 commit) 16:32:31 03kilobyte 07[no_nausea] * 0.12-a0-2811-gf909c4a: Cure all nausea, permanently. 10(4 minutes ago, 17 files, 24+ 147-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f909c4ae3801 16:32:51 BTW, I see a crapload of comments from bwr about simulacrum that keep going about how powerful simulacrum is and why it needs to be nerfed 16:32:51 dpeg: And again I ask why? To make the food clock harder somehow? 16:33:23 DracoOmega: there is no food clock right now, as you said, and I think there should be one. 16:33:28 differentiating food cost per branch depending on diet 16:33:41 btw, relating back to our MR discussion earlier... what do people think of giving all monsters with MR > 200 (say) MAG_IMMUNE? 16:33:57 elliptic: fine by me 16:34:00 elliptic: Might be less misleading, since it's pretty close to that already 16:34:01 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:02 sounds good 16:34:17 elliptic: scrolls of vulnerability are a fun resource, and sharply limited 16:34:46 kilobyte: Well, there are lots of monsters who are still nearly immune even with a scroll 16:35:10 dpeg: I am not sure I agree that a tighter food clock would make Crawl better, to be honest 16:35:19 ok 16:35:36 kilobyte: yeah... but there will still be plenty of stuff for people to use them on 16:35:43 DracoOmega: same as any regular monster with no scroll: you cast it a few times 16:36:06 kilobyte: Moreso than that. I think some are still actually immune even with a scroll, due to the way the formula works for high MR 16:36:07 too rare, I'd say 16:36:13 I did some calculations ages ago, but forget exactly 16:36:23 I'm pretty sure ancient liches at least are still immune when using ?vuln 16:36:47 the scroll should be renamed to "scroll of removing ultraviolet glow from that Zot trap" then :p 16:36:54 kilobyte: stuff with MR 180 is nearly impossible without ?vuln already (and quite reasonable with); I'd leave those in 16:37:15 trj and cerebov are both <200, could always adjust some other big monsters down a bit if we want them to be targets for vuln 16:37:20 if there's some stuff that I put as MAG_IMMUNE that you'd rather have MR 180 or whatever, those could be changed 16:37:28 yeah 16:37:30 @??ancient lich 16:37:31 ancient lich (16L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 27 | HP: 83-131 | AC/EV: 20/10 | Dam: 2013(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(504), 05fire, 02cold++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 11670 | Sp: b.cold (3d37), paralyse, greater demon, animate dead, iron shot (3d44), teleport self / b.draining (3d30), slow, invisibili.. 16:37:40 @??royal jelly 16:37:40 -!- dcssrubot552 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:40 royal jelly (08J) | Spd: 14 | HD: 21 | HP: 230 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 5008(acid:7d3), 3008(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(196), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx | XP: 15000 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 16:37:40 oh, indeed 16:37:50 kilobyte: Also, doesn't it only remove 1d3 points of contam? 16:37:53 ancient lich is a good candidate 16:37:56 Which isn't much if you actually have a lot 16:38:36 -!- soundlst has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:39:13 kilobyte: btw, if you like ?vuln and want to make it more usable, it would be nice if it lasted on monsters for a bit longer than 4 turns 16:39:31 heh, indeed. I got the scroll burned every single time I kept lugging one on me, so never got around to actually using it this way. 16:39:37 Yes, I actually figured it lasted similarly on them as it did on the player, until I saw that dieselrobin TRJ poly of yours 16:39:39 elliptic: sounds like a good idea 16:39:40 currently it has vastly different durations on player and monsters, which is weird 16:40:26 Also, what you mention is I think sort of a problem with a few of the really rare scrolls like ?vuln or ?silence 16:40:38 That you so rarely want to use them that they're very likely to get burned before you can 16:40:45 Since there's almost none to be found 16:41:33 At least, it's been pretty rare that I've had one survive long enough to be useful 16:41:42 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:42:09 actually, the chunk reduction occured with the food reform and was reverted 16:42:15 how about adding it back? 16:43:12 I am not really sure what could be done about this, short of say making them some other class of consumable that aren't get burnt up, but I suspect that might not go over well :P 16:43:40 I've used vuln successfuly on trj before 16:43:54 current monsters with MR > 200 and without MAG_IMMUNE: all liches, all fiends, hell sentinel, ignacio, all hell lords, gloorx 16:43:56 on something like an ancient lich it's stupid... those should be magic immune, not 500 mr 16:43:58 maybe others I am forgetting 16:44:08 I am doing this mainly by memory 16:44:18 evilmike: Yes, but did you stash it ahead of time with this purpose in mind? 16:44:27 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:44:51 no, I just happened to have one and enough uses of polymorph for the tactic to work 16:45:01 Perhaps that's how they're best used, but I do think it would be nice for it to be plausible to carry around ?silence or something for a rainy day, and actually expect it to survive long enough to be useful 16:45:16 !send evilmike the fire giant 16:45:17 Sending the fire giant to evilmike. 16:45:27 This is not an issue for most other scrolls that are sufficiently common that you can absorb losses 16:45:37 (Or don't need to carry them at all) 16:45:37 DracoOmega: if you don't want something to burn up, make it a misc item 16:45:44 Scrolls. Don't. Last. Conservation is a lie. 16:46:27 elliptic: Well, that's sort of what I was musing, that a few of these really rare situational scrolls might be kind of nice if they were or something. So that they might be more likely to be carried and used (and they're still very few in number anyway) 16:46:53 silence did used to be absurdly rare, like less than 1/10 as common as the next rarest scroll, iirc 16:47:00 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:47:06 now it's rare but you'll actually find a couple in a game 16:47:06 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:15 Yes, it's less absurdly rare 16:47:25 But I've still almost always had every one of them burned before I could use them :P 16:47:32 The only time I can ever remember being a position to use a scroll of silence was when I was fighting a Fire Storm ghost. :b 16:49:29 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2811-g9c8fc79: Give liches infinite MR. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9c8fc794772f 16:49:31 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 16:49:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 16:49:31 DracoOmega: but perhaps you're so stingy that you'd never actually would've wound up using it? 16:49:31 No, I don't think so 16:49:31 silence has many good uses 16:49:31 Actually, that's not true; I can remember bashing an alich or two with them. 16:49:31 many dangerous uniques and later liches 16:49:31 i tend to just use my consumables before they get destroyed 16:49:31 I would would people think it was an inherantly terrible idea to turn a couple of those things (?silence and ?vuln and such) into one-shot misc items, so that they wouldn't get destroyed if you cart them around? 16:49:31 I wonder* 16:49:31 especially scrolls, i try not to be conservative when it comes to using them 16:49:31 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 16:49:31 sigil of silence 16:49:31 Due to their rarity 16:49:31 Haha, sigil was actually what came to mind, too :P 16:49:31 well that kind of ties into the whole "should item destruction even be a Thing" discussion 16:49:46 reduce sticky flame duration if you want to save all the scrolls 16:49:48 v___ of vulnerability... 16:49:49 nicolae-: Possibly, but this is a lot less general 16:50:05 clearly we need a god that lets you erosionproof items 16:50:07 nicolae-: It's just that these few are SO rare that you rarely will have more than 1 16:50:14 (vane?) 16:50:26 DracoOmega: another option would be to just increase rarity a bit 16:50:26 And yet they're not something you want to use often, so you probably mightn't get a use of it before they die 16:51:03 jeanjacques: or make its item destruction effect on hit rather than over time 16:51:12 grunt: thesaurus dot com is being surprisingly unhelpful in this regard 16:51:20 nicolae-: I'm just discovering this too :b 16:51:22 dpeg: That is possible, yes. Oddly though, I think what I said is now growing on me now that I have said it :P 16:51:48 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:52:22 maybe if we changed "vulnerability" to a synonym with more alliterative potential 16:52:27 -!- dcssrubot627 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:33 valve of vulnerability 16:52:42 ... no, that sounds terrible. 16:53:03 "charm of ..."? 16:53:04 In this case, I don't think they'd need to all have different item names like that, you know :P 16:53:07 valise of vulnerability 16:53:09 violin <_< 16:53:11 And it would probably be better if they did not 16:53:17 Also, a buff to misc acquirement! :P 16:53:29 are you talking smack about alliteration, DracoOmega :I 16:53:31 (But I am planning to attempt to make the various other misc items more useful in 0.13 anyway) 16:53:34 by the way, the main reason Quad Damage is an unthing is its name 16:53:56 Sigil of Overwhelming Power 16:54:14 draco: are you going to do that old suggestion of having one repeated use and then one super use that uses up the whole thing 16:54:17 beguiling 16:54:29 getting around the 300 year rule would greatly help sneaking it back in :p 16:54:42 nicolae-: Not what I had in mind, no. Though my own ideas are still a little skeletal in some cases here 16:54:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:55:32 Quantity of Unimaginably Awesome Damage 16:56:02 DracoOmega: periapt of power. 16:56:14 That actually sounds surprisingly workable. 16:56:32 kilobyte: only a matter of time! 16:56:44 * Grunt loads on some more adjectives and adverbs for good measure... 16:56:53 yeah if we wait 300 years quake won't be anachronistic anymore 16:56:53 if copying items from Quake is not allowed, "Tome of Power"? 16:57:00 crawl takes place in 2300, problem solved 16:57:04 kilobyte: that thought had crossed my mind too, haha. 16:57:30 i like Sigil of _____ but mostly because i like the word "sigil" 16:57:42 quad damage obviously would need cerebov's name on it. Cerebov's tome of power, eg. 16:57:44 sigil of silence, obviously :) 16:58:07 * kilobyte ponders a small figurine of a pig that's one-use cast of porkalator :p 16:58:11 (We should be collecting these names somewhere.) 16:58:28 kilobyte: do we get a small figurine of a chess rook that casts ddoor without the HP loss? :b 16:58:36 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 16:58:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 16:59:32 piggy bank, smash it to get gold but it also porkalates you + surroundings 17:00:23 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:24 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:52 !tell mumra Am I right in remembering that you were going to tweak a few things about your Gehenna layouts (parameter weights, at least)? Because if so, it would be nice to get them in soon as we're hoping to freeze 0.12 before the end of the month 17:02:52 DracoOmega: OK, I'll let mumra know. 17:04:45 (When are we going to let mumra commit his own layouts to trunk :b) 17:05:38 After he finishes responding to every single open mantis issue? :P 17:05:58 Bonus points if we can get mumra to fix some of those issues while he's at it :) 17:09:43 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-2812-g3cc9e43: Give monsters with MR at least 200 MAG_IMMUNE instead. 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3cc9e432ead4 17:11:09 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 17:11:22 Ignacio may be borderline: 216, and there's a question why he would be immune while executioners are not. 17:11:30 -!- vxth is now known as Blazinghand 17:13:24 he could have 180 MR or something, yes 17:15:09 or alternatively, executioners could be made immune 17:15:12 @??executioner 17:15:12 Executioner (151) | Spd: 20 | HD: 12 | HP: 50-86 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 30, 10, 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(144), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2377 | Sp: pain (d14), haste | Sz: Large | Int: high. 17:15:57 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:31 well, they could be made unique and have quite low mr 17:16:37 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:44 high attack/speed, low defenses/mr 17:17:03 low hp instead of defenses, I guess 17:19:00 btw, one thing that should possibly be changed about mag_immune is that currently a bunch of effects that don't check MR do check mag_immune 17:19:05 confusing touch, for one 17:19:51 03galehar 07* 0.12-a0-2813-g95d6e0c: Divide the maximum number of chunks by 2. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=95d6e0c04fea 17:21:42 -!- Neraxor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:22:07 galehar: ugh, did you really mean to halve vampire nutrition, sac value of corpses for Nemelex, exploding corpses animations, simulacrum ammo, and so on? 17:22:43 I think twisted res too 17:27:52 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 17:32:46 -!- FattyAcids has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:35:26 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2813-g95d6e0c 17:35:38 elliptic: the serpent of hell is >200 MR, also for some reason egolems aren't MR immune, seems like they should be if all other golems are 17:38:08 serpent could be better kept consistent with dragons 17:38:22 egolems are an obvious bug 17:38:27 @??serpent of hell 17:38:27 Serpent of Hell (05D) | Spd: 14 | HD: 20 | HP: 102-141 | AC/EV: 12/9 | Dam: 35, 15, 1507(trample) | 05demonic, 10doors, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(346), 05hellfire, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 10834 | Sp: hellfire (3d20), fire breath (3d40) | Sz: Huge | Int: high. 17:38:35 @??dragon 17:38:35 dragon (03D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 74-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Dam: 20, 13, 1307(trample) | fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1358 | Sp: flame blast (3d24) | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 17:38:56 @??golden dragon 17:38:56 golden dragon (08D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 90-127 | AC/EV: 15/7 | Dam: 40, 20, 2007(trample) | see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(192), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 6013 | Sp: b.fire (3d27), b.cold (3d27), poisonous cloud (3d11) | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 17:39:37 -!- chaingun has quit [Quit: ""] 17:40:06 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2814-gab5ba96: Nerf Ignacio's MR. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab5ba96ee4e0 17:40:06 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2815-gd69e7a1: Make electric golems MAG_IMMUNE, for consistency with other golems. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d69e7a188639 17:40:08 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 17:40:24 |amethyst: CDO has an update to monster, it doesn't build without it 17:40:56 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2815-gd69e7a1 17:42:14 -!- TacoPrincess has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:44:53 -!- Taco_Princess has quit [Changing host] 17:48:34 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:53:31 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55:18 -!- zero_one has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:57:29 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:13 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58:14 -!- Taco_Princess has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:00:06 speaking of consistency, why can we train weapons and armor without actually wearing them, yet we have to have a shield equipped to train shields? 18:00:12 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:15 -!- mumra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:28 -!- TacoPrincess has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:00:30 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:04:47 <|amethyst> kilobyte: the commit from 2012-10-24? 18:04:58 <|amethyst> kilobyte: because that's the most recent one I see on git.develz.org 18:06:04 no, one I just added 18:06:10 for Version::Long 18:06:14 <|amethyst> ah 18:06:37 ok, updated 18:07:06 <|amethyst> oh, you're missing a lot of updates from my monster repo 18:09:06 <|amethyst> well, not a lot I guess 18:09:12 <|amethyst> and nothing big 18:09:38 I pushed my version to three places already, I guess I'll better do a merge commit to preserve your hashes 18:17:51 -!- mgq has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:04 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I can do the merge unless you already have 18:22:16 <|amethyst> I have something else I need to push anyway 18:22:21 what's getting merged 18:22:33 Slime creatures, obviously. 18:22:52 are we getting slime creatures that merge into different shapes with different abilities 18:23:02 which is an idea i just thought up 18:23:03 <|amethyst> nicolae-: divergent commits to 'monster' on git.develz.org and my rep 18:23:07 <|amethyst> repo 18:23:45 -!- dcssrubot800 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:05 |amethyst: if you have extra commits above that repo, then it's better for you to do it 18:25:31 what's the monster branch 18:25:32 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I don't yet (they're stashed), but I'll go ahead and merge 18:26:34 thanks, cool 18:27:01 the only conflict is a formatting one 18:28:19 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 18:28:47 bag of meat (05o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 30 | HP: 400 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, 07vault | Res: 06magic(120) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 15000 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 18:28:47 <|amethyst> %??bag of meat 18:29:32 <|amethyst> kilobyte: okay, merged and another commit added on top 18:29:43 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=monster-trunk.git http://s-z.org/neil/git/monster-trunk.git 18:32:52 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:36:09 withered plant (14P) | Spd: 0 | HD: 10 | HP: 38-70 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 18:36:09 <|amethyst> %??withered plant 18:39:46 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:13 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2815-gd69e7a1 18:40:19 @??meatlord 18:40:19 unknown monster: "meatlord" 18:40:27 @??vile 18:40:28 vile (049) | Spd: 15 | HD: 80 | HP: 7000 | AC/EV: 14/7 | Dam: 1204(fire:80-159), 8, 8 | 11non-living, 10doors, fly, !sil, 07vault | Res: 06magic(640), 04fire+++, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.dig, confuse, miasma (3d45), hellfire burst (3d15) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 18:40:34 -!- eeviac_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:36 @??the meatlord 18:40:36 Failed to create test monster for the the meatlord 18:40:44 o_O 18:40:44 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 18:41:18 hey lookie, a moster with MR > 200. Get it! 18:41:33 @??molten gargoyle 18:41:33 molten gargoyle (059) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 14/7 | Dam: 1204(fire:5-9), 8, 8 | 11non-living, 10doors, fly | Res: 06magic(40), 04fire+++, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 171 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 18:41:33 unknown monster: "meatlord" 18:41:33 <|amethyst> %??meatlord 18:41:39 Failed to create test monster for the the meatlord 18:41:39 <|amethyst> %??the meatlord 18:41:40 Failed to create test monster for the the meatlord 18:41:40 %??the meatlord 18:41:41 <|amethyst> hrm 18:41:43 the the meatlord 18:41:44 :D 18:41:46 <|amethyst> let me see 18:42:04 -!- eeviac has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:42:14 -!- eeviac_ is now known as eeviac 18:42:34 <|amethyst> hrm 18:42:44 The Meatlord (13&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 60 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 40/3 | Dam: 50 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: shadow creatures, airstrike (0-130), conjure ball lightning | Sz: Large | Int: high. 18:42:44 <|amethyst> %?? dispater hp:10000 hd:60 name:The_Meatlord n_rpl col:lightmagenta generate_awake never_corpse spells:shadow_creatures;shadow_creatures;airstrike;airstrike;conjure_ball_lightning 18:43:07 Failed to create test monster for the The Meatlord 18:43:07 <|amethyst> %?? The Meatlord 18:47:01 <|amethyst> oh, I see 18:47:11 <|amethyst> it's lowercasing the input before the match 18:47:29 <|amethyst> wait, no, that still doesn't explain it 18:52:16 The Unspeakable (16J) | Spd: 15 | HD: 100 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Dam: 22 | amphibious, evil, regen, !sil, 07vault | Res: 06magic(400), 03poison, asphyx, 12drown | Vul: 08holy | XP: 15000 | Sp: shadow creatures, airstrike (0-210), smiting (7-17), d.door | Sz: small | Int: plant. 18:52:16 <|amethyst> %??the unspeakable 18:52:24 Failed to create test monster for the the meatlord 18:52:24 <|amethyst> %?? the meatlord 18:52:24 -!- noppa354 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:52:34 <|amethyst> so nothing to do with the name 18:52:40 Cigotuvi's Monster (13X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 23 | HP: 250 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 22, 17, 13, 903(constrict) | 05demonic, 10doors, amphibious, see invisible, 07vault | Res: 06magic(153), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 7372 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 18:52:40 <|amethyst> %?? cigotuvi's monster 18:53:20 (I wonder if I still have that patch somewhere for adding an attacks field to monspec... meatsprint would love that <_<) 18:54:06 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:24 (Then again, it's probably still a terrible idea.) 18:54:42 i'm sure there's no way it'll end up being abused 18:58:16 Grunt: you posted that patch for cloud spell targetting, did you push that? 18:58:16 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:58:25 !messages 18:58:25 (1/1) DracoOmega said (1h 55m 33s ago): Am I right in remembering that you were going to tweak a few things about your Gehenna layouts (parameter weights, at least)? Because if so, it would be nice to get them in soon as we're hoping to freeze 0.12 before the end of the month 18:58:46 mumra: No, because that was a rather hacky way to implement it. 18:59:37 -!- avagrant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:59:44 well it would close a mantis ticket until such time as things are done in a less hacky way so i would say push it 19:00:12 (there are tonnes of other issues with cloud targetting but that would be one less thing) 19:02:33 DracoOmega: yes I'll make some tweaks to those layouts, i think i basically know what needs to be done with them 19:04:35 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 19:06:54 -!- ApsychicRat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:07:39 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 19:08:23 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:16:35 <|amethyst> hmm 19:16:37 hydra (04D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 30 | HP: 1000 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, evil, cold-blooded, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 15000 | Sp: torment symbol | Sz: Big | Int: insect. 19:16:37 <|amethyst> %??eight-headed hydra hp:1000 hd:30 name:meat_hydra n_rpl n_des n_spe always_corpse col:lightred generate_awake spells:symbol_of_torment dbname:meat_hydra 19:16:56 hydra (04D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 30 | HP: 1000 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, evil, cold-blooded, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 15000 | Sp: torment symbol | Sz: Big | Int: insect. 19:16:56 <|amethyst> %??hydra hp:1000 hd:30 name:meat_hydra n_rpl n_des n_spe always_corpse col:lightred generate_awake spells:symbol_of_torment dbname:meat_hydra 19:17:03 meat hydra (04@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 30 | HP: 1000 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, !sil | Res: 06magic(120) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 15000 | Sp: torment symbol | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 19:17:03 <|amethyst> %??human hp:1000 hd:30 name:meat_hydra n_rpl n_des n_spe always_corpse col:lightred generate_awake spells:symbol_of_torment dbname:meat_hydra 19:17:15 -!- rkd has quit [] 19:20:01 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:20:15 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 19:20:40 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:20:42 hey, are the walls from Tomb card supposed to be only temporary? 19:21:18 yes 19:21:20 because in trunk sprint 6 they seem to be permanent now... 19:21:33 possibly because they got hit with vitrification card 19:21:40 oh, sprint, beats me 19:22:02 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:33 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:25:33 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 19:26:51 -!- lavos has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 19:29:08 yeah it really seems like vitrifying the temporary tomb walls makes it lose track of them 19:29:12 so they dont get removed 19:29:32 i cant believe that behavior is desirable 19:33:22 -!- LordLovebone has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:41 the tomb card expiry uses a nasty hack, especially its Zin version 19:36:19 this is nemelex 19:36:26 for both 19:38:28 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 19:38:44 that sucked hard 19:38:50 how do i make a bug report? 19:39:08 were you trapped forever? 19:39:20 yes 19:39:46 3000 turns 19:39:48 ah, Spade is no more 19:39:51 i ran out of food and #quit 19:42:23 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:42:41 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:55 ...where did mumra go; he'd be interested in this slightly less hacky fix for #2491. 19:42:59 http://sprunge.us/Mbjh 19:43:08 kilobyte: feel free to tell me how terrible that fix is :b 19:43:35 (As an aside, a lot of the relevant already-in-place code *sucks*.) 19:45:02 -!- messer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:45:23 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:51 -!- Soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:47:35 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:47:52 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 19:49:25 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51:08 doesn't mephitic produce a (partial) 3x3 box? 19:51:29 yep 19:51:48 It does, but that "noxious blast" has nothing to do with monsters casting mephitic clouds; it's swamp drake breath. 19:52:37 (the get_cloud_type() is mostly code transplated from affect_endpoint(), if you look) 19:53:18 ah 19:53:51 -!- dcssrubot866 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:52 -!- chaingun has quit [Quit: ""] 19:56:33 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Butts] 19:57:45 -!- kek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:48 just tried it again 20:01:00 tomb + vitrification = permant tomb 20:07:26 !tell mumra http://sprunge.us/Mbjh 20:07:26 Grunt: OK, I'll let mumra know. 20:07:32 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:08:15 nice, and if theres a gap in the tomb wall, you can just walk out and it remains 20:14:13 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 20:16:47 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 20:18:09 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:46 Tomb card plus Vitrification Card = permanent Tomb by Rast 20:23:57 -!- HellTiger__ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:27:30 -!- CreepingCrawled has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:28:04 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 20:36:11 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:47 -!- Wehk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:49 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 20:49:40 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:51 -!- evilmike has quit [] 21:00:40 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:46 -!- Beamed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:34 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:20:52 -!- Neraxor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:51 -!- Soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:23:56 -!- dcssrubot663 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:23 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:27:44 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 21:32:55 -!- blerud has quit [Client Quit] 21:33:56 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:35:56 -!- Soundlust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:45 -!- neynt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 21:39:12 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:41:15 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:43:56 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:46:42 -!- bigdumbman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:48:11 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 21:50:10 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:52:32 -!- syraine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:55:19 kilobyte: Are you toying with removing nausea? 21:55:19 bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:55:24 !messages 21:55:24 (1/1) kilobyte said (14h 24m 27s ago): is fungiform supposed to be able to use spells? Most bad_forms (including pig) can't, and this makes the no move when in view restriction largely inconsequential. 21:55:37 !seen kilobyte 21:55:37 I last saw kilobyte at Mon Mar 18 00:53:18 2013 UTC (2h 2m 19s ago) saying 'ah' on ##crawl-dev. 21:55:59 !tell kilobyte no. It is not supposed to be able to cast. This was an oversight. 21:56:00 bh: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 21:56:18 * Grunt fungiforms bh... 21:56:30 oh gosh. They're looking right at me. 21:56:44 * Grunt surrounds bh with eyes!!! 21:57:03 FR: Wandering mushroms should be immobile if they can see a Great Orb of Eyes. 21:59:49 wandering mushroom (07f) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-58 | AC/EV: 5/0 | Dam: 2013(confuse) | 03plant | Res: 06magic(32), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 313 | Sz: tiny | Int: plant. 21:59:49 %??wandering mushroom 21:59:58 Do wandering mushrooms move if you're invisible? 22:00:33 If they don't know you're there, I think they still wander. 22:02:05 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:03:16 03Grunt 07* 0.12-a0-2816-g05cedd8: Tracers for cloud spells for both players (#2491) and monsters. 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 111+ 24-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=05cedd831912 22:03:22 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06:06 !tell mumra See also: 0.12-a0-2816-g05cedd8 :) 22:06:07 Grunt: OK, I'll let mumra know. 22:06:23 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:52 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 22:10:35 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:11:15 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:25 FR: A god who gifts jewelry 22:12:55 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:54 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:32 hm. would it be unreasonable to offer players a simple way of destroying equipment? 22:20:04 I'm thinking of cases where the player is unable to use an item (curare for TSO, wands for felids), but it would be dangerous just to leave them around 22:21:09 well you can just leave them up a floor 22:22:41 seems like it'd be an extra command + related interface with pretty minimal actual use 22:25:58 MarvinPA: if you leave them on the floor, someone might come by and kill you with them 22:26:53 up a floor, as in upstairs 22:27:19 or carry them until you're going downstairs next and leave them there 22:28:24 -!- scrubnub has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:36:41 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 22:38:40 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:23 bh: I've considered adding a command specifically for destroying wands (in the menu when examining one) 22:39:36 elliptic: as long as people don't think this is nethack 22:39:37 since they can already be "destroyed" by zapping all the charges out 22:39:41 elliptic: do they discharge all of their charges and explode? 22:39:49 !abyss Grunt 22:39:50 bh casts a spell. Grunt is devoured by a tear in reality! 22:40:07 however I decided this wasn't really necessary after I learned that ` actually repeats that command properly nowadays 22:40:36 (fr: high evocations reduces zapping time) 22:40:41 I think it is a bad idea for armour/weapons, though 22:40:59 since you'd want to destroy anything remotely decent 22:41:09 and lugging all that stuff around with you comes with substantial costs 22:41:26 -!- Soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:42:22 Grunt: I like that. 22:49:55 Grunt: that actually makes sense, logically 22:50:49 I'd generally prefer having more actions be 1.0 delay, not fewer 22:53:50 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-2817-g58f5b54: Remove unneeded blank line. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=58f5b54d6fa3 22:53:50 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-2818-g3f3e58e: Reduce Serpent of Hell MR to 186. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3f3e58e09039 22:54:01 -!- dcssrubot811 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:51 elliptic: excellent, now we can perhaps get some "shaped Serpent of Hell" kills <_< 22:56:19 eh, people could already get that by abusing cigotuvi :P 22:56:40 Yes, but it's never actually been done. 22:56:45 !lm * uniq=~shaped s=uniq 22:57:02 speaking of which, does anyone have any brilliant ideas for salvaging cigotuvi? or should it just meet the axe 22:57:12 give it cleave 22:57:13 24 milestones for * (uniq=~shaped): 7x the elephant slug shaped Royal Jelly, 6x the titan shaped Royal Jelly, 3x the golden dragon shaped Royal Jelly, 2x the slime creature shaped Lernaean hydra, 2x the pulsating lump shaped Lernaean hydra, the acid blob shaped Royal Jelly, the yaktaur shaped Lernaean hydra, the iron dragon shaped Royal Jelly, the iron troll shaped Royal Jelly 22:57:14 like an axe 22:57:38 i'm all for axing it, yeah 22:57:57 at least poly other isn't quite as boring 22:58:00 yes 22:58:11 (We obviously need a pulsating lump form <_<) 22:58:26 oh, does the bad_forms stuff mean that player ghosts with poly spell do entertaining things now? 22:58:35 Probably? 22:58:57 ??cigotuvi 22:58:58 cigotuvis degeneration[1/3]: Level 5 Transmutation/Necromancy spell. Requires line of fire, checks magic resistance, only works on natural monsters. Turns enemy into a {pulsating lump}, which means not only that you don't get the original monster's exp, but that you'll get mutated if it hits you. 22:59:13 elliptic: axe it 22:59:28 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 22:59:30 ??pulsating lump 22:59:30 pulsating lump[1/1]: Has a mutating melee attack, but if you let it catch up to you then you deserve it. 22:59:38 Commit message: "Cigotuvi's Degeneration degenerates into a pulsating lump of flesh!" 22:59:40 pulsating lump (05J) | Spd: 5 | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 2/6 | Dam: 1309(mutation) | sense invisible | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, asphyx | XP: 53 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 22:59:40 %??pulsating lump 22:59:49 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:54 Grunt: how would it suck any different from the other bad_forms? 22:59:54 Grunt: maybe you should do it :P 23:00:21 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:01:07 convert cigotuvi's into a spell that infects a monster with something, and creates an ally on death 23:01:43 That actually sounds interesting. 23:02:10 -!- cocofalco has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:03:18 what would be good is if the ally can also infect things 23:03:30 so you can get a nice plague going 23:05:35 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:06:18 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2816-g05cedd8 23:07:04 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:55 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:09:42 -!- ruwin has quit [] 23:10:07 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:10:11 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:15 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:57 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:33:57 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:38:47 -!- ekix has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:42:41 st_: isn't that a bit close to replicating a god ability? 23:43:23 enslave soul? 23:43:46 no because you only get one of those, and it retains it's spells 23:44:11 st_: it has some shades of Slimify, too. 23:44:23 not really 23:44:37 it doesn't instakill things 23:44:37 (Clearly I'm just crazy, but you knew that already.) 23:44:52 if anything it is more like death channel 23:46:31 ??death channel 23:46:32 death channel[1/1]: Level 6 necromancy spell in the book of Unlife. Gives you the temporary status of "channeling the dead" (check it in @ or %), during which anything killed by you or in your LOS comes back as a temporary friendly spectral thing (and can still leave a corpse, too). 23:46:34 I never watch that station 23:46:42 Yeah, it's kind of dead. 23:47:16 to remove cigotuvis we could just remove it from fixed books, right? 23:47:41 bh: you can also disable it in spl-cast.cc. 23:47:58 Grunt: but that sucks on the off chance that someone have it memorized 23:48:32 %git 54df5be 23:48:32 03MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-128-g54df5be: Remove Evaporate and Fulsome Distillation, and the book of Stalking 10(7 months ago, 26 files, 53+ 598-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=54df5be6b9d9 23:49:41 -!- madSimon has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:50:25 or you could just use tags. 23:56:15 -!- st_ has quit [] 23:56:16 rip