00:00:15 I.E. your percentage change is only going to be variant on the 25% that are there at a level where they can fight an ettin. 00:00:23 I am not sure exactly what you're getting at 00:00:57 syraine: don't get banished. It's bad. 00:01:24 That the deviation based on how dangerous the Abyss is now versus before is unlikely to be significant even if the Abyss is much more dangerous relatively to XL10-19 players, say, because most people aren't unlucky enough to suffer Banishment. 00:01:28 Yeaaah. 00:01:44 I'm not sure how that's true, given that I'm only measuring data for people that DID get banished 00:01:46 _You failed to disarm the trap. You step safely past the trap. 00:01:53 * SamB wasn't moving ... 00:01:55 Okay, some of them at higher levels may have entered voluntarily 00:02:04 But still from people who actually entered, as opposed to the majority that don't 00:02:33 DracoOmega: people tend to suck at judging how difficult new content is. if people say "x is too hard" or "x is too easy" you shouldn't pay much attention to them. much better if they offer concrete suggestions 00:02:37 Mmm, okay, so I should lay down axioms, or I won't make any sense. The first one is that most people who get Banished are likely to die. 00:02:46 DracoOmega: anyway, I think your stats seem to prove that 00:03:01 Like, even normally. 00:03:11 maybe we should banish syraine 00:03:12 They get hurled into the Abyss at a level too low to survive. 00:03:21 I see we have EQ_HELMET -- how ought I distinguish helmets from soft caps? 00:03:39 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: could you break those down by XL a bit further? 00:03:45 Yeah, that could help. 00:03:57 i don't imagine maybe people are entering the abyss voluntarily at xl<16 00:04:08 I agree. 00:04:22 If it shows that people are dying at the same rate at the same level distribution, yeah, it's true. 00:04:22 <|amethyst> I'm sure there's a Sequell query to get that in graph form but I haven't read up on the graphing stuff 00:05:03 the main thing that determines how difficult the abyss is, is how likely you are to run into a dangerous monster that's also faster than you, when you're at a low level (like an executioner) 00:05:20 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2774-g6d35981 (34) 00:05:21 they new abyss monsters aren't extremely fast, in general 00:06:11 Save for the one just removed 00:06:42 |amethyst: And possibly I could yes. I just never did since both the high and low end seemed comparable to earlier versions 00:06:56 I had done a lot of stats before I realized I had forgotten to exclude AKs >.> 00:07:07 So those were tossed and I was less thorough after :P 00:07:53 <|amethyst> hm 00:08:32 does anyone know some good mushroom jokes? 00:10:11 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:52 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:13:48 And thrashing horrors 00:14:01 Also if you don't have flight, everything that can levitate 00:16:51 -!- syraine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:19 -!- Pedjt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18:22 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18:47 drat. I forgot to add 'waka waka' to my commit messasge. 00:20:10 03bh 07* 0.12-a0-2775-g62d1833: How did the mushroom get a sunburn? 10(13 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=62d18336de5b 00:20:12 <|amethyst> sample size is a bit small, but: 00:20:48 <|amethyst> !lm * abyss.enter cv=0.12-a xl<=5 rtime<201300 / lg:br=abyss 00:20:49 102/117 milestones for * (abyss.enter cv=0.12-a xl<=5 rtime<201300): N=102/117 (87.18%) 00:21:09 <|amethyst> !lm * abyss.enter cv=0.12-a xl<=5 rtime>=201300 rtime<201301 / lg:br=abyss 00:21:10 21/28 milestones for * (abyss.enter cv=0.12-a xl<=5 rtime>=201300 rtime<201301): N=21/28 (75.00%) 00:21:12 should disallowed abilities show up in the 'a' screen? 00:21:16 <|amethyst> !lm * abyss.enter cv=0.12-a xl<=5 rtime>=201301 / lg:br=abyss 00:21:18 28/37 milestones for * (abyss.enter cv=0.12-a xl<=5 rtime>=201301): N=28/37 (75.68%) 00:21:25 i thought we were trying to stick with actually descriptive commit names now :P 00:21:35 i just wore-id an amulet of rage as a ghoul, and the fail chance was 50% 00:21:46 MarvinPA: the commit message is descriptive. 00:21:53 faze: that's weird 00:22:06 the amulet was greyed out 00:22:15 faze: disallowed by what? 00:22:19 Race or God 00:22:21 being a ghoul :P 00:22:23 <|amethyst> faze: maybe you're victory dancing evocations for automatic skills mode 00:22:31 true 00:22:44 what? 00:22:45 also i think maybe i broke something 00:23:03 also, you can curse a greyed out item with ash, so there's that too 00:23:14 every time i pull my remote lightningform branch gets updated to be lightningForm, and then next time it gets updated back to lightningform, and so on 00:23:24 SamB, you cannot use an amulet of rage as a Ghoul, because Ghouls cannot take advantage of items or effects that cause the Berserk status. 00:23:37 only living beings may berserk 00:23:49 However, you are able to activate Berserk as a Ghoul, to get the message. 00:23:56 i don't suppose anyone with less messed up case-dependency could see if it's happening? and if both remote branches still exist or what 00:23:57 <|amethyst> maybe you want to use your mp to keep an eye of draining from healing off you 00:23:58 so fail should just be 100% 00:24:15 sure, or don't even list the ability 00:24:18 ghoul on wearing amu rage: `You feel a brief urge to hack something to bits.` 00:24:22 Then people would train Evocations. 00:25:15 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-2776-g5cc39d7: Properly handle foodlessness in fungus form, as is done elsewhere. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5cc39d74ba31 00:26:07 Crawl should be more poetic... 00:26:31 I think dolorous would have more fun if he lurked on irc. 00:27:06 On wearing amulet of rage: "You feel consumed by a simmering resentment." 00:28:49 bh: instead of just reading the logs? 00:28:57 SamB: mhmm 00:29:44 sometimes I want to submit badly formatted code, just to see how long it will take for `Formatting fixes` to appear ;) 00:30:02 Wait 00:30:09 Did he fix your code on the fly immediately after you pushed it 00:30:19 03mumra 07* 0.12-a0-2777-g394c689: #6723 Prevent vault Lua error in Crypt 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 12+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=394c6897a9b8 00:30:45 -!- Twinge has quit [] 00:30:46 syraine_: yep. 00:30:59 That is amazing 00:31:02 mumra really needs to push more often 00:31:05 ;-P 00:31:29 I really want to see mumra's abyss layouts get pushed 00:31:38 I am glad that the Abyss shift stopped 00:32:37 Oh, what else was there? Ummm, why don't angels berserk? 00:32:42 They have minds. 00:33:10 so do lots of things that don't berserk 00:33:21 But they're not icky demons! 00:33:28 Okay, rephrase. 00:33:36 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:33:47 Why don't angels berserk? They're melee creatures largely and it would be tremendously frightening. 00:34:06 maybe that's why ;-P 00:34:07 TSO wouldn't like that. 00:34:15 TSO doesn't mind berserk. 00:34:33 do not look behind the curtain 00:34:38 Also, who wouldn't want to see _An angel (berserk) 00:34:46 I would love a berserk angel. 00:34:54 !learn bad_ideas this 00:34:55 I don't know about !learn bad_ideas. 00:35:05 =D 00:35:12 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:35:32 <|amethyst> So, it's been suggested before jokingly, but what about a serious TRAN_HUMAN bad form, perhaps vetoed if you are already mostly humanoid 00:35:46 Why is Human a bad form 00:35:52 <|amethyst> essentially, just suppress physical mutations and pseudomutations 00:36:01 <|amethyst> merfolk couldn't enter water for example 00:36:02 Ah, does it also give you wildly variant HP 00:36:15 Are you allowed to wear mundane armour 00:36:18 <|amethyst> hm, HP and stat adjustment could be a possibility 00:36:25 <|amethyst> armour would be the problem 00:36:31 doesn't sound like it'd really be very bad, most of the time 00:36:33 A long-running joke about enemy humans is that they can be between one and ten humans 00:36:43 Just in one square 00:36:48 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:36:57 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: well, more of a neutral form 00:37:05 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: since /poly isn't always bad 00:37:08 kind of boring for an enemy wand to... do almost nothing to you 00:37:09 <|amethyst> (dragon) 00:37:15 It could drown you 00:37:21 Polymorph into a human, drown 00:37:32 <|amethyst> syraine_: those kinds of transformations are already forbidden AFAIK 00:37:35 so far no forms let you wear things that you can't wear usually and that seems pretty important to keep, too 00:37:39 Okay, it could make you drop your barding 00:37:49 <|amethyst> Yeah, I wasn't thinking new equipment 00:37:57 <|amethyst> maybe "mundane form" would be a better name 00:38:00 What happens to your barding 00:38:07 <|amethyst> again, it shouldn't happen if you're already a human, orc, etc 00:38:07 Does it meld 00:38:11 <|amethyst> syraine_: sure 00:38:23 <|amethyst> likewise rings 3-8 00:38:33 human (15@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 3-68 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 233 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 00:38:33 %??human 00:38:43 Make sure you get between 0.1 and 10x your HP 00:39:04 <|amethyst> spriggans and centaurs lose speed, and nagas lose slow (but also poison spit, rpois, etc) 00:39:16 Naga would love this, mm 00:39:23 Since you can cast 00:39:38 <|amethyst> could set all your stats to 10 00:39:47 How about it averages them 00:39:56 <|amethyst> or that 00:40:06 Setting all your stats to 10 could be a boon 00:40:18 <|amethyst> becoming a bat could be a boon 00:40:28 <|amethyst> or a hog 00:40:29 Becoming a bat is sadly rarely a boon 00:40:42 Since usually it is an overloaded bat 00:40:49 (You somehow carry your inventory) 00:41:14 batform should have holding 00:41:28 like Link 00:41:30 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:42:30 -!- gluop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:01 -!- syraine_ is now known as syraine 00:44:38 -!- Henzell has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:45:26 -!- Wah has quit [Quit: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT'S BACON!] 00:45:49 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:20 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:34 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:51:35 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:56 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:57:17 -!- Mumcon has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:03:30 -!- dcssrubot79 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:34 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2777-g394c689 (34) 01:04:43 -!- neynt has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:08:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:10 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2777-g394c689 01:25:18 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 01:29:23 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:31:09 -!- Naruni has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:36 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 01:34:56 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:52 -!- dtsundere has joined ##crawl-dev 01:41:21 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:26 -!- dtsund has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:41:27 -!- dtsundere is now known as dtsund 01:58:32 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:43 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:01:19 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-2778-gbb50c4e: Minor documentation fixes 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bb50c4e865c3 02:01:19 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-2779-g7e4e0be: Don't respawn Boris if he is pacified 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e4e0be826b1 02:02:00 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:04:26 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:08:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:10:40 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 02:11:03 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:27 -!- Substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:16:15 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:18:34 -!- eb has quit [] 02:20:24 -!- DracoOmega_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:46 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:34 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:31:35 -!- DracoOmega_ is now known as DracoOmega 02:33:35 -!- dcssrubot40 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:51 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:39:07 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:32 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:43:22 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:49:18 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:50:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:56:02 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:56:53 -!- meowfelid has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 02:59:20 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:59:44 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:51 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:10 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:35 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:10 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:10:58 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:13:14 -!- eb has quit [] 03:27:38 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27:46 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:30:57 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 03:35:45 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 03:39:31 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:40 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:54:18 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:56:17 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:01:59 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:03:40 -!- dcssrubot128 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:10:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:14:14 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:17:07 -!- Staplegun has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:37 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:36:13 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:36:21 -!- TARBALLPYTHON has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:39:47 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:42:06 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:46:28 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 04:47:06 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:51:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:51 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:00:45 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13:37 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:33 -!- evilmike has quit [] 05:25:07 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:28:15 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:11 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:45 -!- dcssrubot709 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:35:45 !seen MarvinPA 05:35:45 I last saw MarvinPA at Sat Mar 16 07:49:41 2013 UTC (2h 46m 4s ago) saying 'i think it's always been a coinflip between the spellbooks and manuals' on ##crawl. 05:36:49 %git 6af1ec2 05:36:49 03MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-1685-g6af1ec2: Fix dragon form being unable to use wands 10(8 weeks ago, 3 files, 7+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6af1ec204df9 05:37:09 MarvinPA: I think it was never intended for dragon form to use wands 05:37:39 It was probably just overlooked when wand restriction for animal form was introduced 05:37:54 do you mind if I revert it? 05:46:37 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:47:57 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:13 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:05 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:26 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 05:54:52 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:55:39 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:06 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 05:58:16 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:40 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 06:01:10 -!- _dd has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:38 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:13:23 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 06:14:37 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:17:49 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:27:03 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:36:56 -!- Sepik121 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:45:47 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 07:03:50 -!- dcssrubot212 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:49 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:17 -!- Guest43913 is now known as jarpiain 07:28:25 -!- animegrampa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:32:36 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:45 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:28 -!- eb has quit [] 07:49:35 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:55:47 -!- Zermako has quit [] 08:02:32 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:05:21 -!- Carlito has quit [Client Quit] 08:11:45 -!- Stikcing is now known as Sticking 08:16:18 -!- Substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:16:38 -!- Taco_Princess has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:21:09 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:44 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Client Quit] 08:29:34 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:56 -!- dcssrubot592 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:35 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:45:26 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:03:28 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:03:51 -!- Sepik1211 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:08:30 -!- TacoPrincess has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:08:36 -!- Sepik121 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:29:39 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:30:38 -!- dcssrubot593 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:20 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:01 -!- gluup_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:36:35 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:01:42 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:07:24 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:42 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:12:07 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:18:18 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:19:47 -!- Wolfram has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:29:56 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:59 !messages 10:30:59 No messages for bh. 10:31:09 -!- Dixlet_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:09 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:59 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:46 Freaking Mantis. I filtered to only show open bugs, and now I can't make it show everything again. 10:38:03 -!- antlions has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:48 click "advanced filters" 10:39:02 -!- Sticking has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:41:18 Ah, well that works... thanks. 10:42:10 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:26 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 10:45:58 -!- Mottikins__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:48:47 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:00:11 Medar: even worse, there are controls which are only shown in the simple view 11:00:20 and you need to go back to simple to set/disable them 11:00:43 -!- dcssrubot213 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01:32 kilobyte: when was the last abyss drowning death? :) 11:01:59 bh: just after one of your fixes, but not the last one IIRC 11:02:12 phew 11:02:52 0.12-a0-2696-g5d5c096 11:03:09 !lg * place:Abyss:* killer:drowning 11:03:10 Malformed argument: place:Abyss:* 11:03:18 !lg * place=Abyss:* killer=drowning 11:03:19 1. Serfuzz the Merry Centaur (L18 CeHu), worshipper of Okawaru, drowned on Abyss:2 on 2013-03-10 13:14:34, with 183642 points after 52933 turns and 4:39:21. 11:03:32 !lg * place=Abyss:* killer=lava 11:03:33 No games for * (place=Abyss:* killer=lava). 11:04:05 I mean, that was the last report on mantis, not necessarily the last on servers 11:05:19 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6270 -- how about we only blood spatter floors? 11:05:55 too many folks use the same glyph for stone/metal as for rock, yeah 11:06:04 I think, pretty much everyone but me :p 11:07:01 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2780-g2815549: Fix the version number in test/stress/timeall not going to the STDERR. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=28155494661c 11:07:01 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2781-gc2df61b: Hush a (non-bogus) warning. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c2df61be142d 11:07:54 doe the abyss really need random blood spatter? 11:07:59 I kind of wonder whether anyone would want to run the benchmark without redirecting STDOUT to /dev/null 11:08:31 bloody water could be crimson rather than red 11:09:08 but indeed, blood is too cosmetic to be worth confusion 11:09:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:09:36 (I mean, \e[1;31m rather than \e[0;31m) 11:12:14 splattering walls is a good part of blood's design, so it may be worth keeping, but on the other hand, it has no in-game effect whatsoever 11:13:35 the only effect is Ds with Ignite Blood, I think 11:15:32 !tell dpeg there's a proposal with multiple proponants, to make Lucy not a coprophiliac. It'd reduce some tedium, but also remove choice whether to sac corpses or play safe with food. I'm ambivalent, what would you say? 11:15:33 kilobyte: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 11:15:57 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:00 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 11:17:48 kilobyte: pushed a change to remove the random blood spattering the abyss 11:18:28 yay, nice 11:19:32 crawl ruined forever 11:20:48 i once played around with using different glyphs for stone and metal, but i didnt feel like i gained much from it 11:21:08 i wound up keeping it so i use a different glyph for permarock, though, since that is a lot harder to tell apart 11:21:08 !abyss BlastHardcheese 11:21:10 bh casts a spell. BlastHardcheese is devoured by a tear in reality! 11:21:46 well at least I won't have to clean up any blood 11:22:09 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:12 03bh 07* 0.12-a0-2782-g3806400: Remove blood spatter in the abyss. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=380640086b29 11:23:30 what about the blood you get in pan sometimes, does that show up on walls? i've never noticed it being a problem, but if it happens on walls maybe it should be changed to floor-only 11:23:52 it's not much of an issue in pan anyway since almost everything is diggable 11:26:56 -!- TARBALLPYTHON has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:34 does any of you have much experience with LTO builds? They seem to be broken for most arch/optimization level combinations, and I wonder whether that's a bug in gcc or on our side. 11:31:54 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:32:03 -!- freefall has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:32:38 I mean, there were ICEs from time to time, but I've debugged and reported them so it at least builds everywhere, but "builds" doesn't mean "works". 11:49:13 -!- dcssrubot867 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:50:33 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:54:36 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 12:04:59 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11.2-10-g01a9a8f 12:05:02 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:06:17 -!- Zermako has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:06:37 -!- Zermako2 is now known as Zermako 12:11:56 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 12:17:22 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:17:43 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 12:18:41 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2782-g3806400 (34) 12:18:44 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:21:37 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:46 MarvinPA: awesome work on the tracker! 12:21:47 dpeg: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 12:21:55 !seen mumra 12:21:56 I last saw mumra at Fri Mar 15 18:14:09 2013 UTC (23h 7m 46s ago) quitting with message 'Ping timeout: 245 seconds'. 12:31:47 <|amethyst> Looking at #6718 : is there any reason for full_ident_mask to leave in ISFLAG_KNOW_PROPERTIES for non-artefact armour and weapons? 12:33:52 there's so many ways to identify something that I don't think assuming only a minimal set of flags is set is reasonable 12:34:25 I guess tracker work is a group effort. 12:35:46 <|amethyst> kilobyte: does ISFLAG_KNOW_PROPERTIES mean anything for non-artefacts? 12:36:38 yeah, and unlike, say, Cryptic's run a year or so ago, mumra doesn't seem to close stuff without reading 12:37:28 <|amethyst> I can verify in wizmode that, if I know the cursed status and then get enough skill to learn the pluses and brand, the item's flags end in 0x7 which means everything is set except KNO_)PROPERTIES 12:37:32 <|amethyst> s/_)/W_/ 12:38:08 <|amethyst> enough throwing skill, that is 12:39:00 <|amethyst> my thought was to move OBJ_WEAPONS and OBJ_ARMOUR up with OBJ_RODS in _full_ident_mask 12:39:03 I wrote that part, so don't expect it to make sense 12:39:39 feel free to fix it, I'm not that sure what's the exact behaviour of ident flags 12:40:31 -!- Aookami has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:43:04 Injury bond status (sheltered from injuries) doesn't always update immediately by Medar 12:49:08 By the way, would anyone mind about two simple labyrinth changes (or perhaps care enough to add them)? One: Display all squares you've stepped on -- the Ariadne deal. Two: place the exit such that the metal area never touches the border of the map; this should make solving easier. 12:49:48 If nobody objects, I'd make that two separate Implementables. 12:50:24 <|amethyst> dpeg: what happens if a square you've stepped on shifts? 12:50:48 <|amethyst> dpeg: I guess the same thing as if a monster digs out of sight 12:51:37 |amethyst: just keep the flag 12:51:43 <|amethyst> dpeg: One issue: if you remove rot for known squares, the lack of autoexplore becomes purely an interface screw 12:52:07 |amethyst: in a sense, it already is, but you could drop stones for the same effect 12:52:13 <|amethyst> dpeg: true 12:52:31 <|amethyst> dpeg: I guess that's a good first step towards lab reform 12:53:32 |amethyst: If too many devs say that labs are a minigame that doesn't belong to the core game, then they'll go... but I always liked the diversion. I am not sure that mazes could be tactically fun, but I think they could be better on hints and resource drain. 12:54:42 <|amethyst> dpeg: I guess my concern is that you could theoretically script labs even now, and then everything before the minotaur is "trivial" 12:54:47 I don't mind the idea of a maze minigame, but I do think it's a shame to purposely disable autoexplore for it when, e.g. you could write some maze solving lua to accomplish the same (and I hear this has already been done at least once?) 12:54:55 <|amethyst> dpeg: "you" as in the player 12:55:08 elliott: this was before maze self-changes, though 12:55:25 <|amethyst> dpeg: I don't want to see labs go, I just think there should be something other than interface screw preventing players from autoexploring 12:55:35 dpeg: well, I've tried autoexplore on existing labs, and it does solve them, just slowly (which is more an artefact of the autoexplore algorithm, I think) 12:55:36 <|amethyst> dpeg: and the current shifting rate is so low, that doesn't prevent it 12:56:10 eventually it's still going to work (and I doubt the time penalty is that bad if you code your maze solver to account for it), or humans wouldn't be able to solve them :) 12:56:19 <|amethyst> (not preventing them from autoexploring: preventing them from autoexploring all the way to the minotaur 12:56:19 |amethyst: yes, I know, but that could be tweaked. 12:56:47 <|amethyst> FR: House of Leaves labyrinth 12:57:11 I wondered for a time whether there should be a turn limit to reach the exit -- if you need too long, you're dispelled from the lab. There are differences in the ability to *quickly* solve the maze, and then (human!) player input might actually help. 12:57:26 <|amethyst> dpeg: that would be neat 12:57:28 perhaps what labs need is simply more monsters in vaults? if there are interesting challenges in the maze before the minotaur, then you have two effects: (1) autoexplore doesn't just skip the maze; (2) exploration becomes more tactical 12:57:34 |amethyst: we're not so far away... when jpeg did the self-modifications, we talked about House. 12:57:34 <|amethyst> dpeg: also eliminates the starvation risk 12:57:39 (because you might want to avoid things, etc.) 12:57:56 that way autoexplore is both less problematic and less optimal 12:58:03 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:04 <|amethyst> dpeg: yeah, I see the lab entrance quote is from HoL 12:58:30 Perhaps it's worth a try. There could be a hungry ghosts emanating from the exit, walking through the walls towards you (giving you a clue where the exit is); and level sounds about how much time you have. 12:58:46 It looks like it would be fairly easy to do the metal radius bit. 12:59:21 Grunt: would you go for it? I believe this addresses some special cases where you have to backtrack very long distances. 12:59:41 It's almost done, assuming this is doing what I think it is doing. :) 12:59:47 oh, wow 12:59:52 * Grunt waits for it to finish compiling... 12:59:53 the problem with trying to do stuff with vaults is that you need a ring of floor around the vault or you can break connection 13:00:01 and that makes things a lot easier 13:00:51 st_: sounds like keeping connectivity without the floor is a job for mumra :p 13:01:05 true! 13:01:07 (todo: make mumra a dev) 13:01:54 when/if the DG stuff is on, I'll suggest to make him a honorary demidev :) 13:02:32 dpeg: "Two: place the exit such that the metal area never touches the border of the map; this should make solving easier." <- this seems backwards to me 13:02:48 IME those are the harder labs 13:02:51 elliptic: please explain before Grunt's compilation finishes 13:02:53 er 13:03:03 easier, eh? 13:03:17 like, I have no idea why anyone thinks having the exit in the center is easier than having it near an edge 13:03:36 is there any rational justification? since this is the reverse of my impression 13:04:02 elliptic: there are less paths to something in an edge/corner than there are to something in a central area, in my experience. 13:04:05 I think I have: if you enter the metal area from the wrong side (no path to exit) and it's at the boundary, there is less pathways around it. 13:04:17 <|amethyst> elliptic: average distance is shorter 13:04:27 <|amethyst> also the topological thing 13:04:40 Also: people will love us if we tell them that labs are even easier now! 13:04:51 but if the exit is in the center, and you approach from the west, it is quite possible you have to go all the way around to the east to enter 13:05:16 these are the hard ones 13:05:22 elliptic: It might take a mathematician to solve that! 13:06:13 again, this is just my impression... but it is one based on quite a lot of labs 13:07:29 elliptic: I actually cannot comment on that very well.... I solve most mazes real quick, and I don't despair if a particular one takes a bit longer. I do have the feeling that intuition helps. 13:08:20 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-2783-gcffbd05: Ignore absence of ISFLAG_KNOW_PROPERTIES for non-artefacts. 10(24 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 16-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cffbd051eb63 13:08:29 elliptic: what do you think about changing the lab paradigm: you have a limited amount of time, and if time's up, you're expelled. 13:09:10 dpeg: I don't like it... the reason why is that it is very easy to waste turns in labs if you are moving around in them quickly 13:09:16 Personally, I always liked the switch from frantic portal entry search to carthartic maze crusing, but perhaps it is better to never let up, always keep up the pressure. 13:09:19 One way to settle the issue would be to figure out what the average path distance from start to exit is for, say, 100 labyrinths before and after the change. 13:09:30 failing to cut corners, walk into a visible dead end a few squares more than necessary, etc 13:09:35 and this would be punished 13:09:46 Grunt: average path distance is *not* a good measure of difficulty 13:09:46 it sounds like it would make lua botting even better 13:09:50 like why would it be 13:10:01 you don't enter a lab knowing which way to go 13:10:18 elliptic: but you can develop a feeling quite quickly 13:10:20 so I strongly disagree that this would settle any issues at all 13:10:49 elliptic: It would deal with starvation. 13:11:03 I could imagine that it helps with making human play better than bot play. 13:11:06 dpeg: what starvation? 13:11:13 dpeg: what helps? 13:11:23 Some people are mortally afraid of starvation, no idea why. 13:11:32 elliptic: the turn pressure. 13:11:49 I think that a human might be better to guess the correct direction than a bot. 13:12:18 well, I've explained why I don't like the turn pressure at all 13:12:34 alright, I withdraw the idea 13:12:37 you'd have to slow down a lot just to avoid wasting turns to the interface 13:13:14 It could use seen squares instead of spent turns to time out, but that might just open whole lot of different problems 13:13:25 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.11 13:14:33 mad shifting would mean waiting for a shift could become a viable strategy, but at least it'd give players an edge over scripts 13:15:23 I don't see too much point in worrying about scripts until someone actually writes one that is better than a human 13:15:29 which afaik has not been done 13:15:31 ok 13:15:52 elliptic: what do you think of marking squares the player stepped on? 13:17:09 <|amethyst> hm, we have no quotes from "The House of Asterion" 13:17:24 kilobyte: that's a good point: as soon as there are decisions, it's mortal brain time 13:18:03 <|amethyst> !tell bh also, forgot to mention it earlier, but ♥ at the Circular Ruins vault idea 13:18:03 |amethyst: OK, I'll let bh know. 13:18:07 well there are already decisions, and if you are better at making them then you will solve the lab faster 13:18:12 !tell mumra godminions.txt is worked at. It's now in jpeg' 13:18:12 dpeg: OK, I'll let mumra know. 13:18:15 shit 13:18:30 !tell mumra godminions.txt is worked at. It's now in jpeg's hands, which means many high quality lines :) 13:18:30 dpeg: OK, I'll let mumra know. 13:18:32 * kilobyte ponders using some quote from "Hamlet, the warboss of Denmark" by Shake-da-boss-pole 13:19:00 -!- dcssrubot460 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:03 marking squares the player stepped on is interesting, I'm not sure what it would actually improve though 13:19:18 Do native speaker ever evoke the mental image of "small piece of ham" when they say "hamlet"? 13:19:35 <|amethyst> !tell ontoclasm what do you think about more flesh-tone variation for humans? 13:19:35 |amethyst: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 13:19:44 elliptic: it's more a psychological thing, I guess. I love it for Ariadne, of course. 13:20:28 <|amethyst> dpeg: Not usually, but I will from now on, thanks :) 13:20:38 Always at your service! 13:20:41 my thoughts about lab improvement are the same that they have always been: reduce the size substantially (like, half as large in each dimension) and add more monsters 13:20:54 elliptic: yes, that is always an option. 13:20:59 <|amethyst> dpeg: though I suspect it is a popular name for potbellied pigs 13:21:31 Flesh-tone changing for vampires based on thirst would be cool 13:21:35 I also don't really like the minotaur vaults that are recognizably vaults before you see the minotaur 13:21:48 uhoh, I made about a billion of them 13:22:06 pretty much all of them 13:22:07 since that gives time to prepare, often means that there are convenient loops which you can kite the minotaur around, etc 13:22:08 <|amethyst> elliptic: I think that's better than turning a blind corner and being adjacent 13:22:27 |amethyst: why? being adjacent to a minotaur is more interesting than not being adjacent to one 13:22:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:43 since they don't actually do anything at range 13:22:53 unless it picks up a rod with freezing cloud! 13:23:35 or the popular rod of swarm option 13:23:36 What about many minotaur zombies roaming the maze? They're slow, so you don't have to fight them all, but if you're too clumsy with your navigation, you'll run into more of them. 13:24:01 <|amethyst> I don't really like the flavour of minotaur zombies there 13:24:17 <|amethyst> adventurer zombies, or ghosts, would be better I think 13:24:20 I'm fine with the minotaur + loot ending having some variation, I just think it shouldn't be a big box with a door and everything inside 13:24:27 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:24:37 minotaur zombies are a bit strange flavourwise yes 13:25:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:25:34 <|amethyst> FR: make the lab minotaur a unique 13:26:47 <|amethyst> I think minotaurs could be an interesting monster for D or V 13:26:51 well, any kind of normal speed zombie works 13:27:28 if the guys keep spawning, then that'd be a potentially interesting war of attrition on the player 13:27:38 <|amethyst> dpeg: It has to be something that's actually a threat... just throwing in a few extra turns of bashing doesn't really discourage anything 13:28:08 <|amethyst> !lm * cv=~0.12* br.enter=lab s=xl 13:28:09 4575 milestones for * (cv=~0.12* br.enter=lab): 1068x 11, 1064x 12, 579x 13, 449x 10, 378x 14, 291x 15, 209x 16, 113x 17, 90x 18, 69x 19, 61x 9, 46x 20, 41x 21, 26x 23, 25x 27, 22x 22, 16x 25, 13x 24, 9x 26, 4x 8, 2x 7 13:29:36 <|amethyst> dpeg: or a tank I suppose, so you're significantly increasing your food usage 13:30:11 trying to treat labs as a food thing is never going to work I think 13:30:39 elliptic: I didn't mean food here 13:30:53 right, that was in response to |amethyst's last comment 13:31:26 <|amethyst> I guess if there are enough zombies that you can easily get surrounded several-deep on both sides 13:32:16 I guess nobody here sees labs as a pressing problem (I sure don't) but then you don't frequent the forum :) 13:32:40 I am happy as long as they're in... long live Crete! 13:32:59 <|amethyst> Long live David Bowie! 13:33:25 Crete is older, gotta admit that :) 13:33:57 <|amethyst> FR: the lab minotaur always has a battle-axe 13:34:07 +1 13:34:33 1/100 chance of the minotaur being a goblin king 13:36:13 <|amethyst> I did make the suggestion at one point to populate lab with monsters from greek mythology (and harpies even work with the other theme) 13:36:24 <|amethyst> but that would require depth changes 13:36:37 <|amethyst> and maybe reduce its uniqueness 13:36:43 what's this about a goblin king? 13:36:51 how can a minotaur be a goblin king? 13:36:53 elliptic: I agree about the minotaur vaults, though like I said I'm not sure how possible it is to have those work properly atm 13:37:04 <|amethyst> SamB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth_(film) 13:37:15 oh 13:37:23 -!- kek has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:24 <|amethyst> SamB: it was in response to my "David Bowie" comment I imagine 13:37:35 st_, elliptic: do you guys think there is any point for minotaur vaults? If so, I'd make some to replace my old ones. 13:37:42 different labyrinth, I guess 13:38:10 st_: ah, I wasn't sure if there were actually technical reasons why the ring of floor is currently necessary but I guess there actually are? 13:40:02 dpeg: I think that some variation would be nice certainly 13:41:09 can't get away with just an @? 13:41:20 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:28 lab.des doesn't give any explanation for the need of padding around the end vaults :-( 13:45:14 <|amethyst> the end vault gets placed after the lab is generated? 13:46:22 <|amethyst> that sounds suboptimal 13:50:29 actually, it looks like *all* of the DEPTH: Lab vaults have to be totally traversible... 13:54:09 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:17 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:35 I just got fedhas penance for reading immolation 13:59:39 that doesn't seem fair 14:00:17 I think that's what immolation is supposed to do 14:00:19 you can get beogh penance for that as well 14:00:28 you can get beogh penance for that while you are walking on water 14:00:35 ouch 14:00:41 that might be a bit much 14:00:57 gods should either forgive all accidents, or none 14:00:58 anyway, yeah, it's bothered me too how careful you have to be with read-IDing with those gods 14:01:10 I don't like inconsistency 14:01:12 :| 14:01:14 since if you think about it, you can just tell your allies to wait and then go around the corner 14:01:21 which is annoying 14:01:51 I guess you can't quite make them flee around the corner, can you 14:02:13 stupid "only target fleeing in LoS" restriction 14:03:50 -!- zero__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:05:52 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 14:06:03 |amethyst: anyway, dgn-labyrinth is only 556 lines, it shouldn't be too hard to see what it does ... 14:06:25 dgn-labyrinth.cc, I mean 14:06:30 learn add famous_last_words 14:06:51 now, seeing how to make it less stupid is obviously harder 14:07:33 and I didn't mean it would be easy to understand the whole thing, anyway; just what it does with vaults 14:07:48 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:35 there's a good hilarious_death from beogh + immolation 14:08:55 it was from, uh, I think the 0.10 tournament. Can't remember any other details 14:08:57 so, if that's not what immolation is for, what is it for? 14:10:28 trying to kill the vault:$ ambush 14:10:47 -!- ystael has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:12:55 I use immolation against early bees. 14:13:33 there was an immolation V:$ death without beogh too 14:13:45 they just died from the whole immolating themselves thing 14:14:00 awesome way to go! 14:14:12 yeha thats the one I meant 14:14:20 I wish I could remember the beogh one, it's amazing 14:14:30 is that the one in that fedhas vault or something 14:14:36 it happened in swamp 14:14:37 they read immo and die next turn 14:14:52 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:00 actually wait sorry, it wasnt immolation 14:15:06 it was vorpalize weapon doing damage to allies 14:19:08 EVILMIKE: IS IT !LG BAKAFLOCKAFLAME PLACE=SWAMP GOD=BEOGH 14:19:49 who are you and why are you typing in all caps 14:20:21 and yes, this is the one 14:22:55 evidently it's some sort of snake that hides in tarballs? 14:23:01 it's minmay and it's minmay 14:23:06 to answer both questions 14:23:15 ah 14:24:55 oh this reminds me of another weird thing, though 14:25:13 which is that gods always forgive you for zapping random effects and getting a forbidden effect, even once you've identified the wand 14:27:09 probably random effects shouldn't actually mark the beam type as accidental once you've identified it 14:29:14 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-2784-g22d7fca: Remove some misleading monster messages. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=22d7fca7fa76 14:33:03 -!- rossi has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:35:37 MarvinPA: hmm, but maybe you wanted a different beam 14:36:12 anyway I guess there should be a warning if you fire it in a dangerous manner 14:37:14 it's already marked red as a god-forbidden item 14:37:22 if any of the possible effects are forbidden 14:37:40 no prompt though i don't think 14:38:45 oh, I was thinking if you might accidentally injure an orc or something 14:38:58 depending on what type of beam you got 14:42:07 -!- FattyAcids has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:46:45 <|amethyst> I think that's on mantis, but I don't remember the bug number 14:47:06 <|amethyst> 6441 and 1494 14:48:43 <|amethyst> I just closed the former as a duplicate 14:49:06 -!- dcssrubot94 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:50 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:16 -!- geedmat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:14:33 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 15:14:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:45 !tell dracoomega I've noticed that allies now sometimes run off to fight monsters without any orders or provocation whatsoever... could this have been caused by some of your ally changes? 15:18:46 elliptic: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 15:19:01 soudns convenient 15:19:08 not really 15:19:23 unless you mean it is convenient that my allies go get themselves killed 15:20:27 are you saying that's not convenient 15:20:35 you get to get rid of your allies for free! 15:23:27 -!- jhjkk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:46 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 15:30:45 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 15:30:56 -!- jhjkk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:43:40 elliott: how do I apply this technique to my plants in ZotDef? 15:43:44 does this mean that allies react intelligently when you're getting shot at 15:43:45 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 15:43:54 SamB: try hitting them. 15:44:32 eeviac: I think that counts as provocation 15:45:33 elliott: um, no. 15:46:38 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 15:46:47 eeviac: maybe they do that now, but I really meant without provocation 15:46:54 oh he left 15:49:20 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:57:12 %git 770bcbd1844b97b671d0e47ea8313cdf2c74c5ea 15:57:13 03galehar * 0.12-a0-208-g770bcbd: Use std namespace. 10(7 months ago, 394 files, 7870+ 8315-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=770bcbd1844b 15:57:31 * SamB wonders why that would have needed changes to crawl-gdb.py 16:02:52 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:41 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:41 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:13 -!- dcssrubot112 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:10 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:25:09 -!- quazi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:27:22 elliptic: if you'd change chaos weapons, please remind me to do something to the 1/10000 chance of statue form I just added. Lichforming worshippers of good gods is not an issue since they also have a thousand times more likely draining, but that's the only thing Yred hates. 16:29:13 lichform is also a thousand times worse for good gods than draining, since it is excommunication rather than penance 16:30:01 if you do get excommunicated, that is 16:30:01 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30:24 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:37 you don't get punished for example for drawing a card, even though you know there is a chance of drawing Metamorphosis 16:30:53 hm, right 16:31:23 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:35:52 in any case, if you dislike this logic, axing statue and lich wouldn't make me cry; tree and breastly is enough 16:38:04 breastly... nice 16:39:00 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 16:44:29 -!- TacoPrincess has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:59 * SamB wonders why there aren't different tiles for different consistancies of potion 16:51:05 -!- GON_again has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:55:20 -!- Chozo has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:00:02 -!- portablechie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:00:25 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 17:05:32 SamB: would be nice, I think 17:09:24 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:11:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 17:15:54 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 17:21:35 -!- Substitute has quit [] 17:25:33 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:05 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 17:30:53 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:05 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:36 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:18 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:17 -!- dcssrubot647 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:00 -!- madreisz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:02:44 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-2785-gf9d9fb9: Add logfile/milestone fields for AC, EV, SH, aut. 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 26+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f9d9fb959a75 18:02:46 Using menu_sort option messes up the order of (un)known item list (\) by Medar 18:07:01 <|amethyst> elliptic: what do you think about a milestone field for spells known, or even fields for action counts? 18:07:31 <|amethyst> elliptic: would help quantify balance issues I think (and morgues aren't reliable because those things can be turned off) 18:07:40 <|amethyst> (and are harder to query) 18:07:49 well, we shouldn't add too much stuff 18:08:52 already sequell doesn't put all the junk in the logfile/milestones into its db 18:09:39 <|amethyst> these wouldn't have to go into sequell; you could download the milestone file and grep or awk 18:10:09 right, but the milestone files are already sort of awkwardly large 18:10:30 probably a field with the list of spells known would be fine though 18:10:37 -!- dcssrubot799 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:01 putting in all the action counts seems not so good to me though 18:11:12 <|amethyst> I think Napkin and or greensnark worked on an interface for !tv to keep it from looking at the entire list of ttyrecs; could do something similar with milestone fetching 18:11:52 <|amethyst> yeah, action counts might be a bit much 18:12:02 <|amethyst> I was thinking just the top-level things (melee, ranged, etc) 18:12:04 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:11 <|amethyst> but even then that might be a lot 18:12:20 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:12:24 also I'm not sure how useful those numbers would be 18:12:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:32 since action_counts are weird in a few ways 18:12:39 <|amethyst> yeah, spells I think are more relevant 18:13:03 <|amethyst> action counts for god abilities and spells could be useful but not necessary 18:13:16 <|amethyst> actually, what would be good would be a second milestone-like file 18:13:41 <|amethyst> with all this extra information for debugging and stats; but not usually transferred over the network 18:13:44 -!- GON_again has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:14:31 -!- BloodDrum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:15:00 -!- dcssrubot172 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:15 can have nrmsls along with nblinks :P 18:18:19 a separate file is a good idea I think 18:21:45 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:58 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-2786-g4b23b18: Reduce Staff of Olgreb venom bolt power to compensate for the venom bolt buff. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b23b186e596 18:32:26 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 18:32:27 -!- jbud has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:33:12 all needed data is already present in dumps 18:33:38 for spells, including the turn you memorized/forgotten one 18:35:02 I'd add two new types of actions, though: sleep stabs and distraction stabs 18:35:19 (a bit hard to come up with a good name for either) 18:35:41 I mean, this is akin to a spell 18:36:15 -!- MountainDwarffor has quit [Client Quit] 18:38:27 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:38:32 first category: sleep/paralysis; second: net/web/petrifying/petrified/invis/confused/fleeing/ally (if you attack a friend)/distracted 18:40:02 -!- SetecAstronomy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:52:39 -!- ApsychicRat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:53:23 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:55:08 deep troll (08T) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 27, 20, 20 | 10doors, sense invisible, regen | Res: 06magic(40) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1020 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 18:55:08 %??deep troll 18:55:10