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00:01:01 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2423-gddcdc49 (34)
00:01:07 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2423-gddcdc49 (34)
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00:07:59 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2423-gddcdc49
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00:11:40 <elliptic> The neqoxec gestures at the blue devil.
00:11:40 <elliptic> Strange energies course through your body.
00:11:40 <elliptic> You feel odd for a moment. x2
00:11:48 <DracoOmega> ....
00:12:12 <elliptic> (I was invisible, but not between the (hostile) neqoxec and the (hostile) blue devil)
00:13:20 <DracoOmega> Well, that one doesn't get off on the self-enchant slot explanation
00:16:28 <DracoOmega> There's been a bunch of these sorts of things lately, but this one can't even be related to the couple friendly-spell targetting changes, which I assumed might have had something to do with the other ones
00:17:56 <elliptic> this one is at least just a message issue though
00:17:57 <SamB> elliptic: try to make it happen again with an appropriate breakpoint set and see what's happening?
00:18:14 <SamB> oh, what's the issue then?
00:18:31 <elliptic> well, the only thing wrong here is the "gestures at the blue devil"
00:18:37 <SamB> oh
00:18:51 <SamB> ?
00:19:04 <DracoOmega> Yes, I know, but that almost makes it more confusing
00:19:06 <elliptic> since it was actually gesturing at me presumably
00:19:40 <SamB> oh, I guess two you-hostile creatures aren't *too* likely to be battling it out ...
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00:28:34 <DracoOmega> I wonder if any of this could be related to target-fuzzing from invis somehow?
00:28:42 <DracoOmega> But I'm not seeing an obvious culprit
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00:34:58 <Cheibriados> Zot Defence (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6704) by Asmodeus
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00:39:03 <DracoOmega> Okay, I have an idea what the problem is
00:39:12 <DracoOmega> Or at least I think I might
00:39:46 <DracoOmega> The invis fuzzing is applied seperately on each tracer attempt, and a tracer is used to pick the target name for the gesture message if it isn't actually targeting a creature directly
00:40:07 <DracoOmega> So probably the name-check tracer ended up aimed in the blue devil's direction, while the actual beam was not
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00:46:28 <DracoOmega> Though the way this is worded also makes me wonder if invis fuzzing is only applied versus invisible PLAYERS and not anything else the monster might target which is invisible
00:47:06 <DracoOmega> Though it is probably applied in other ways in other places
00:47:12 <DracoOmega> (How fun)
00:48:18 * SamB wishes Cheibriados would put that between angle brackets so he could easily open it in his browser ...
00:50:52 <DracoOmega> Though the way fuzz_invis_tracer works here is really confusing. To the point that I am unsure if it even does what it thinks it does
00:53:20 <DracoOmega> It is only applied to tracers, as they pass specifically through the player's location, returns false if its aim is too far off you (whenever or not it was even targeting you?) then true of the caster has sense invis and its aim was exactly on you, then true if a random nearby position is in-bounds. Then changes its target (despite only being used as a boolean check, partway through tracing the be
00:53:20 <DracoOmega> am?)
00:53:38 <DracoOmega> I don't know that changing the beam target at this point even changes the rest of the path, and even if it did, doing that at this point seems really odd
00:55:10 <Cheibriados> Zot Defence: oklob plants vs oklob circles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6705) by Asmodeus
01:00:13 <Cheibriados> Zot Defence: a destroyed object can not be created back with enough ZP (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6706) by Asmodeus
01:00:48 <SamB> this asmodeus guy is on a ZD filing spree ...
01:01:55 * SamB wonders if |amethyst can fix Cheibriados to use <> instead of () when mentioning bug reports ...
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01:06:44 <SamB> Asmodeus really seems to work up too many ZP
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01:10:19 <Cheibriados> 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-2424-g42bce56: Fix indentation. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=42bce56bc3a2
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01:23:28 * SamB tags #6705 and #6706 with "zotdef"
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03:47:20 <alefury> from xuaxua on the tavern: Someone hit my battlesphere with a teleport spell and I teleported.
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09:50:45 <DracoOmega> My suspicion is that either Xuaxua is wrong about what happened regarding that battlesphere teleport, or possibly it is that same message display bug as discussed last night
09:51:00 <DracoOmega> Since I cannot reproduce it, nor can I even imagine how it could be possible
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10:38:06 <alefury> DracoOmega: xuaxua's bug reports are notoriously unreliable, and this wasnt even a bug report, just a casual observation that he posted about. still worth checking out, but if you cant reproduce it its probably not your fault.
10:39:26 <DracoOmega> Yes, I did check, just in case
10:39:45 <DracoOmega> Even though I could think of no theoretical way it could have happened
10:40:36 <DracoOmega> But the tele other spell landed on the battlesphere itself, just as you would expect (then did nothing, since it's magic immune)
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10:44:02 <alefury> its kind of silly that battlesphere can block enchantments but you can shoot through it
10:45:53 <DracoOmega> Well, enemy things can hit it and your stuff can't
10:46:06 <DracoOmega> (And inversely for enemy battlespheres)
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10:48:09 <DracoOmega> It would be simple enough to modify this to let enemy enchantments through but still allow it to be hit by other sorts of beams, but that is the current behavior
10:50:36 <alefury> the whole asymmetry is silly imo, its like hiding behind a summon except without the disadvantages
10:51:03 <elliott> stuff should just always go through battlespheres perhaps
10:51:09 <alefury> if it doesnt actually lead to people doing gamey shit with it its fine imo
10:51:11 <DracoOmega> It used to do that originally
10:51:12 <elliott> but I would really hate your stuff to hit battlespheres
10:51:17 <elliott> since that would be 10000x more annoying
10:51:27 <DracoOmega> But it was pointed out that not being able to hit enemy battlesphers could be annoying
10:51:37 <DracoOmega> And yes, your own stuff really needs to be able to pass through it, since it gets in your way on its own all the time
10:51:37 <alefury> stuff always going through it would include enemies being able to swap with it i guess?
10:51:57 <alefury> imo battlesphere only being good in open spaces would be fine
10:52:08 <DracoOmega> alefury: But it gets in your way in open spaces all the time
10:52:14 <DracoOmega> Due to how it moves around
10:52:16 <alefury> the ai would have to be modified to try to not block your line of fire i guess
10:52:32 <DracoOmega> That sounds annoying complicated to get right
10:52:42 <alefury> something like what you did for your door closing monster might work
10:52:45 <DracoOmega> It was complicated enough just to get IT to get out of YOUR line of fire
10:52:48 <alefury> but yeah, annoying
10:52:56 <DracoOmega> The other way around, I mean
10:53:08 <DracoOmega> To get it to move so that YOU weren't blocking its shots
10:53:39 <alefury> as i said, if it doesnt actually lead to people doing gamey shit there is no problem
10:53:41 <DracoOmega> I think it is hard to do too much gamey stuff with using it to block stuff, since it moves around a lot and it's quite fragile
10:53:55 <DracoOmega> The only plausible thing that comes to mind is blocking enchantments in corridors
10:54:15 <DracoOmega> (At which it is not as good as sputterflies)
10:54:21 <alefury> i guess its very good against nequoxecs in corridors, and reasonably good against orc wizards and sigmund
10:54:41 <DracoOmega> Well, you're not liable to have it castable against Sigmund at any point where Sigmund is scary
10:54:47 <DracoOmega> And if you do, why not just shoot him with it?
10:54:59 <alefury> well, you can still cast enchantments and other high-acc stuff at the enemy, so its better than butterflies in that regard
10:55:03 <DracoOmega> Neqoxec is more plausible, yes
10:55:53 <DracoOmega> I am not sure this is really a problem, though
10:56:02 <alefury> s/sigmund/grinder i guess
10:56:10 <alefury> still kind of early
10:56:23 <Cheibriados> Grinder (025) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 40 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Dam: 1105(pain) | 05demonic, 10items, 10doors, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(24), 02cold++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 322 | Sp: pain (d10), paralyse, blink | Sz: little | Int: normal.

10:56:23 <alefury> %??grinder
10:56:35 <alefury> sounds like it would really neuter grinder though :)
10:56:54 <elliott> grinder already kind of neuters grinder
10:57:13 <alefury> like a million kills say otherwise ;)
10:57:49 <elliott> well he kind of actively tries to stop himself aiming enchantments at you, not to say he isn't dangerous
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11:41:47 <Cheibriados> Hound nuzzled my face from distance. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6707) by Medar
11:48:30 <Keskitalo> We have awesome hounds.
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12:47:45 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-2425-g32fb48f: Mention acquirement biases in the scroll's description. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=32fb48f2ca90
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14:08:36 <Cheibriados> 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-2426-g38c9224: Fix punctuation. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=38c9224902db
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15:14:16 <Cheibriados> Yred/Beogh quality-of-life improvements (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6708) by DracoOmega
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15:15:59 <st_> those are changes I never thought I would actually see
15:16:50 <HangedMan> now you can die happy?
15:22:07 <elliott> st_ now #1 beogh fan
15:22:09 <elliott> 4 lyf
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15:25:07 <elliptic> the changes might even be enough to make me play yred again
15:25:26 <DracoOmega> Ha :)
15:25:37 <elliott> elliptic: get them in quickly so we can clear out the DK oldwons
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15:26:02 <st_> perfect for elliptic to do DDDK^Yred
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15:30:00 <elliott> that one is still your job
15:30:46 <st_> I'm not the one going for deeperdwarves!
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15:31:16 <elliott> deatherknights
15:32:07 <jeanjacques> st_: didnt you have a pretty far advanced yred dddk?
15:32:19 <st_> I won one
15:32:36 <elliptic> DDDK was actually my second win ever
15:32:40 <st_> not that long ago, but still enough for oldwon
15:32:45 <elliptic> (old DK with necromancer book)
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16:26:48 <Keskitalo> I jsut won a MiDK, which took me ages to play, so I'm pretty <3 about that patch
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16:39:26 <elliptic> You climb downwards.
16:39:26 <elliptic> Item scroll of fear buggily placed in feature rock wall at (30, 29).
16:39:26 <elliptic> Item 8 needles of sleeping buggily placed in feature metal wall at (32, 29).
16:39:26 <elliptic> Item 13 gold pieces buggily placed in feature wall of green crystal at (34,
16:39:26 <elliptic> 29).
16:39:27 <elliptic> Item scimitar buggily placed in feature wall of green crystal at (35, 29).
16:39:28 <elliptic> Item 28 gold pieces buggily placed in feature rock wall at (30, 30).
16:39:30 <elliptic> Item plain deck of cards buggily placed in feature metal wall at (32, 30).
16:39:32 <elliptic> Item 13 sling bullets of flame buggily placed in feature wall of green crystal
16:39:34 <elliptic> at (34, 30).
16:39:36 <elliptic> Item 36 gold pieces buggily placed in feature wall of green crystal at (35,
16:39:38 <elliptic> 30).
16:39:40 <elliptic> Item hammer buggily placed in feature rock wall at (30, 31).
16:39:42 <elliptic> Item pair of orcish gloves buggily placed in feature metal wall at (32, 31).
16:39:44 <elliptic> oh, that was longer than I thought
16:40:35 <elliptic> this is on D:27; there is quite a large vault on the level that I don't recognize from mapping
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16:47:49 <elliptic> okay, I am pretty sure what happened here
16:48:11 <elliptic> the game first generated one of those rectangular rooms full of random items
16:48:15 <elliptic> and then it placed a vault over it
16:48:31 <elliptic> or the other way around I guess
16:49:06 <elliott> that was a good paste
16:49:23 <HangedMan> can we remove said layout_roguey random rectangular rooms full of *s
16:49:48 <DracoOmega> While that might quash this particular instance, this seems more indicative of a general problem
16:49:58 <ChrisOelmueller> are you saying you don't need a hammer on d:27 :(
16:50:00 <HangedMan> this is more of me hating those random things
16:50:59 <Gretell> arcanist123 (L7 MuWz) ERROR: range check error (35 / 35) (D:5)
16:55:32 <Cheibriados> Items placed in walls (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6709) by elliptic
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17:02:33 <rast> i think the duration, and maybe the strength, of god wrath should depend on how long you followed that god and/or the max piety you reached with it
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17:44:31 <mumra> i've been noticing a bunch of problems with vault placements and certain layouts while i've been doing this work on hypervaults
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17:46:04 <mumra> one problem is when an ORIENT vault gets placed as the primary vault, layouts have to know to work around it ; most of them appear to at least be aware of MMT_VAULT
17:46:08 <mumra> but there could be bugs ...
17:46:29 <mumra> and most layouts make no attempt to connect up to the vault's exits nor ensure connectivity
17:46:45 <mumra> so certain orient vaults will cause VETOs on a lot of layouts
17:47:13 <mumra> then there's an additional problem that ordinary floating minivaults break connectivity all the time
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18:01:17 <Cheibriados> 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-2427-g985b380: Give Jory more HP. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=985b3808d9c1
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18:06:22 <Cheibriados> 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-2428-g119b682: Decrease Jorgrun EV, increase Jorgrun melee damage. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=119b68211f6a
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19:39:29 <Sizzell> Garhauk (L11 HECj)  (D:8)
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19:50:49 <|amethyst> !lm Garhauk crash -log
19:50:52 <Sequell> 2. Garhauk, XL11 HECj, T:13956 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Garhauk/crash-Garhauk-20130228-013928.txt
19:53:21 <|amethyst> sigterm lin libc while doing a curses screen update?
19:53:25 <|amethyst> s/lin/in/
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20:07:38 <Cheibriados> Mummies now have planescape torment style memories. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6710) by khalil
20:09:27 <Eronarn> badmantis <3
20:09:40 <DracoOmega> That patch somehow does not appear to do what it claims to do
20:10:46 <DracoOmega> And instead gives mummies a giant universal apt boost and renames them liches
20:11:15 <elliptic> yes
20:11:26 <|amethyst> but only removes one of the mentions of bandages
20:11:45 <elliptic> IMO reject the patch because of that
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20:18:13 <elliott> IMO push that patch
20:18:46 <elliott> DracoOmega: they "randomly get skills" because their aptitudes are higher
20:18:51 <elliott> implements it perfectly
20:19:14 <DracoOmega> Haha
20:19:36 <DracoOmega> I suspect they made a patch from the wrong commit, frankly, but....
20:26:00 <|amethyst> it does say 2/2
20:26:33 <|amethyst> save this one up for 1 April
20:26:58 <ChrisOelmueller> mm
20:27:13 <|amethyst> "New race: Lich.  Remove Mummies."
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20:27:45 <ChrisOelmueller> wouldn't you just "Fix #6710"
20:27:55 <|amethyst> hah
20:27:57 <mumra> surely 1 April is when meatsprint gets committed but when you play it, it turns out to be Red Sonja
20:28:10 <BlastHardcheese> mliches
20:28:24 <|amethyst> *sigh* I need to get time to work on my April Fools thing
20:28:29 <elliott> mumra: you mean when you play any sprint it becomes meatsprint
20:28:33 <elliott> and also if you try and play the real game
20:28:46 <elliott> and also if you don't try and play at all. meatsprint is non-optional.
20:29:08 <mumra> clearly that is a better idea, yes
20:32:53 <Cheibriados> Give felids intrinsic gourmand (like trolls) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6711) by chris
20:33:17 <ChrisOelmueller> oh by the way somebody may want to update race description or manual or changelog or something if applying this
20:33:20 <ChrisOelmueller> i didn't bother
20:33:46 <elliott> ChrisOelmueller: so now you have invented both labyrinths and felids
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20:36:35 <ChrisOelmueller> stop making me feel bad
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21:18:22 <Cheibriados> The Royal Jelly missing from Slime:6 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6712) by flun
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21:53:43 <Cheibriados> 03SamB 07* 0.12-a0-2429-g9fd23b0: Update final copyright year in opening screen to 2013. 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9fd23b04bd17
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22:03:15 <bh> !messages
22:03:15 <Henzell> No messages for bh.
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22:06:55 <Gretell> Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2428-g119b682
22:13:31 <bh> how can I get the deepest dungeon level the player has seen?
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22:16:41 <|amethyst> find_deepest_explored(level_id(branch, 0))
22:16:59 <|amethyst> see _get_seen_branches for example
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22:17:23 <bh> I'm finally implementing 'real dungeon levels in the abyss'
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22:33:40 <bh> |amethyst: why do we keep levels on disk rather than reading them all into memory?
22:34:10 <elliott> because it is 1995 and linley henzell is writing dungeon crawl with turbo c++
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22:34:31 <bh> elliott: I need to warn them about the financial crisis!
22:34:48 <elliott> that said you'd have to save them anyway for e.g. crash durability
22:34:58 <elliott> but yes it is pure madness that other levels are actually ejected from memory
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22:40:24 <SamB> I guess linley was lucky to have more than 64k of RAM, huh?
22:40:57 <|amethyst> far mode was probably in the chapters he didn't get to
22:41:18 <bh> SamB: I had 2mb of RAM in 1991
22:41:33 <elliott> haha
22:41:36 <bh> of course I've heard horror stories from Aussies about technology being years behind over there
22:41:49 <elliott> well if you don't know what pointers are kind of hard to understand far mode
22:41:55 <SamB> bh: hmm, I wonder if Turbo C++ could use that much at a time
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22:45:41 <bh> |amethyst: LOAD_VISITOR is what gets used for loading up maps for travel, right?
22:45:52 <bh> I'm very eagerly crashing crawl
22:47:33 <|amethyst> I think so?
22:55:15 <ChrisOelmueller> just rewrite all of the level handling code
22:55:20 <ChrisOelmueller> how hard could it be
22:55:22 <ChrisOelmueller> right
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22:55:54 <bh> ChrisOelmueller: thanks for volunteering?
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23:04:44 <SamB> I thought that was sarcasm
23:06:12 <ChrisOelmueller> it indeed was
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