00:00:21 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11.1-28-g383dc24 00:02:37 -!- icantfindaname has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:03:28 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:03:28 -!- bleak` is now known as bleak 00:04:17 -!- LikotUdendeb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:10:09 -!- Adder has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:31:15 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:40 <|amethyst> bh: http://{dobrazupa.org,crawl.akrasiac.org}/rebuild/ 00:41:59 |amethyst: found it in the logs :) 00:44:41 <|amethyst> bh: thoughts on limiting the rune to A:4 and A:5 ? 00:44:51 <|amethyst> A:3 seems a little shallow 00:44:53 |amethyst: no one has played it enough 00:45:17 <|amethyst> yeah, I guess we'll see what happens with the improved spawn rates 00:45:23 'improved' 00:46:10 seems two levels of choice when looking for the rune might be too little 00:46:34 maybe limit it to 20-27 00:46:41 !abyss Zannick 00:46:42 bh casts a spell. Zannick is devoured by a tear in reality! 00:46:42 :) 00:46:49 wait, abyss is 5 levels or 27? 00:47:11 :P 00:48:07 That was an abyss of approval 00:48:22 i can never tell with you 00:49:23 I'm an enigma wrapped in a volcano, dude. 00:53:35 in an abyss in an abyss in an abyss 00:54:57 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:00:57 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:08:43 -!- eb has quit [] 01:15:58 -!- Rofaner has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:20:56 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:23:03 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:47 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:33 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:44 -!- Floooo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:41:43 -!- maahes has quit [Quit: happy new year everybody] 02:00:50 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:15:23 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 02:19:43 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:24:12 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: alternatively: good riddance 2012] 02:34:29 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:55 -!- stenno has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:09:08 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:14:06 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:29:41 -!- smeea has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:31:37 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:33:40 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:35:20 -!- dtsund is now known as guildprincess 03:37:23 -!- bza has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:45 -!- guildprincess is now known as dtsund 03:46:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 03:52:32 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:18:40 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: why did I have to fall in love with the female King Arthur] 04:33:47 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:06 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:42 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:03 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1549-g1ee5af6 05:11:08 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 05:21:00 -!- stenno has quit [Changing host] 05:21:50 -!- Dixbert_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:52 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:35:35 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:25 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:12 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:29 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:15:11 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:25:53 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:35:04 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:04:10 Atenologic (L10 TrBe) ASSERT(!at_branch_bottom()) in 'stairs.cc' at line 533 failed. (Abyss (Sprint)) 07:04:56 Atenologic (L10 TrBe) ASSERT(!at_branch_bottom()) in 'stairs.cc' at line 533 failed. (Abyss (Sprint)) 07:07:18 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:18:40 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:23:54 do we even need the Abyss in sprint games? 07:27:56 this was discussed before, but we got distracted every time 07:37:38 -!- ketsa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:20 -!- Findor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:39:42 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:02 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:56 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:17 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 07:55:10 -!- Nivim has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:04:07 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:06 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:55 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:46 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:14 -!- LikotUdendeb908 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:11 * st_ looks at volcanoes 08:37:28 -!- archl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:50:49 [insert joke about red monsters here] 08:54:10 there are so many appropriate and good monsters that can be used, but there's so little focus on it 08:54:20 it's all lua fun 08:54:45 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-1550-g705bb5e: Fix indentation. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=705bb5ec2917 08:54:46 lua fun to place kobolds or humans or gnolls that are excessively weak for when you find a volcano anyway 09:16:21 I wonder how uniques in portal vaults works 09:20:38 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=HF4vDQ84 09:21:27 orb of fire (should use these) 09:21:51 don't worry, I'll put hd:3 09:22:01 the polymorph 09:22:47 could give them polymorph instead of malmutate 09:23:11 kind of confused about the extents of some of these unless it's involving making volcanos spawn much deeper or vault-monstering them a ton 09:23:28 -!- MaxFrost has quit [] 09:23:37 a single balrug or draconian is fightable in lair 09:23:59 balrug (052) | Spd: 11 | HD: 14 | HP: 55-95 | AC/EV: 5/12 | Dam: 2504(fire:14-27) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 2378 | Sp: b.fire (3d23), fireball (3d23), sticky flame range (3d6), smiting (7-17) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 09:23:59 %??balrug 09:24:25 ice cave bosses do get mean, I guess 09:25:04 if can just walk through it without even considering using consumables something isn't right 09:25:26 heh 09:25:31 the depth could be a little lower, if necessary 09:26:02 I guess a lot of the volcanoes are depenedent on hiding from the flames moreso then offering monster threats but flames are not nearly as variable as players fighting monsters 09:30:45 yeah it's not as fun either 09:31:06 the Volcano monster set has only one requirement: the glyph being red 09:31:18 which makes a whole lot of sense 09:32:03 oh sorry, didn't notice your bracketed line at 15:50 09:32:15 should have a hell's armoury inspired one 09:34:22 -!- Guggulf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:35:11 we can just steal DoomRL content, it's not like Kornel will get mad 09:35:26 rename thunderdome 09:36:26 it's name is pretty silly 09:36:34 why it's not "arena" or something? 09:36:49 is it a reference to some US building or such? 09:37:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Max_Beyond_Thunderdome 09:39:04 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:42:33 -!- Gmork has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:46:35 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:50:45 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:56:23 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:02 -!- lexackson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:23 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:15:39 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:30:42 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1551-g7274d17: Drop useless braces. 10(86 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7274d17594d7 10:30:42 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1552-g551c9f0: Don't hard-code Abyss max depth in one place. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=551c9f00c0e1 10:45:40 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:49:05 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:41 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:31 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:38 -!- ToastyP is now known as Guest84680 11:11:21 -!- Guest84680 is now known as ToastyP_ 11:12:42 hmm 11:12:52 i seem to be getting glow from nowhere 11:14:44 <|amethyst> lexackson: can you do a dump? 11:15:45 Could it have been something triggering a zot trap, maybe? 11:29:06 -!- Spavven has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:18 -!- Rofaner has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:30:28 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:32:42 hmm 11:32:50 not from traps 11:33:02 it was from monster attacks perhaps? 11:33:22 i think it was not a bug 11:33:24 I don't think there's anything that can inflict that via attacks 11:33:37 Well, unless it was wielding the plutonium sword, I guess? 11:34:00 <|amethyst> !lm lexackson sprint x=cv 11:34:01 1193. [2013-01-01 17:22:15] [cv=0.12-a] LexAckson the Axe Maniac (L27 DDBe) found a magical rune of Zot on turn 6985. (D) 11:34:19 <|amethyst> in trunk that's only on unwield 11:34:26 I meant if an enemy was 11:34:35 Since it inflicts transmutation miscasts on its target 11:36:02 -!- codile has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 11:38:22 -!- codile has quit [Client Quit] 11:38:25 expect 36 bad mutations if a monster is in a position to repeatedly trigger a zot trap 11:39:45 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:40:06 (happened for me once, a boggart filled a room with monsters that included sentient ones) 11:40:37 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:44 what's the point of a trap magically knowing which side is which? 11:40:56 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:16 magic traps powered by the very thing the dungeon is built to guard are probably pretty good at being magic 11:41:40 -!- ToastyP_ is now known as ToastyP 11:42:25 then why do they need a primitive contact trigger? 11:43:17 -!- codile has quit [Client Quit] 11:43:54 but instead of arguing here, let's think a level higher: why do we even keep any traps other than teleport, alarm and shaft? 11:44:10 I think most people think zot traps are good traps 11:44:24 As traps go, anyway 11:44:46 -!- codile has quit [Client Quit] 11:44:53 Several of their effects are relevant even if monsters are not around, and they have an additional tactical dimension is monsters ARE around, which must traps do not after being known 11:44:56 sadism, not having absolutely everything kill you _all_ the time gives nice false hope 11:45:12 Not quite the line of reasoning I would have used 11:45:27 :P 11:45:27 -!- Spavven has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:31 they might be semi-acceptable (no worse than mechanical ones -- but no better, either) except for the friend/foe thing 11:46:43 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:47:24 i'm pretty sure we already established multiple times that pretty much everyone is in favour of removing or never generating mechanical traps (and that most people think zot traps are okay) 11:47:30 why not replace zot traps with wild magic traps that trigger in a large radius, cause miscasts over a few turns, and are once-only 11:47:43 there's a crd thread with some solid proposals from a couple of month back 11:47:46 months* 11:47:55 -!- codile has quit [Client Quit] 11:48:22 Eronarn: Well, monsters triggering them is actually an interesting mechanic that can affect a battlefield in a pronounced way. I don't think this is a bad thing. 11:48:35 -!- mamga_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:49:18 monsters triggering them once could be not so bad 11:49:45 doing that over and over, not so much 11:49:58 I think I disagree. They're not that interesting until they're actually KNOWN 11:50:02 In terms of monster relevance 11:50:22 -!- mawrin has quit [Client Quit] 11:51:40 -!- codile has quit [Client Quit] 11:53:58 -!- codile has quit [Client Quit] 11:56:20 in other news 11:56:25 what on earth is a deep dwarf unborn 11:56:29 and should it be able to drink potions? 11:56:39 ask blue_anna 11:56:42 I think it's a reanimated fetus or some such? 11:56:43 heh 11:56:44 I don't think anyone else knows what it is 11:56:51 A lich that is a not-lich 11:56:54 basically i think of them as liches 11:57:08 but they spawn with and can drink potions 11:57:08 The tile for them is fleshy, for whatever that's worth! 11:57:13 But kind of odd-looking just the same 11:58:34 maybe qwarves just shouldn't spawn with potions for now 11:59:07 since the only place they actually exist is zigs 11:59:25 Also the abyss! 11:59:26 >.> 11:59:40 so they don't get to use them to actually heal, and giving out a ton of heal wounds is a bit silly in the unlikely event that someone goes and kills a bunch of them early on 11:59:53 should also make them stop spawning with gold 12:00:05 i did that already, yep :P 12:00:10 bah 12:00:35 no gold makes sense, potions should wait for when there's actually some balancing to be done 12:00:59 perhaps we should just disable qwarves for now, until someone resumes work on Dwarf? 12:01:42 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:46 !messages 12:01:47 No messages for bh. 12:02:00 !lm * place=abyss:* 12:02:01 28. [2013-01-01 17:28:44] soul the Unseen (L16 SpEn) escaped from the Abyss! 12:02:38 -!- Findor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:03:01 hmm, well they do work okay in the odd vault or two, there's the crypt ending at least 12:04:32 -!- codile has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 12:07:13 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:09:23 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:40 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:08 is there a arena points score list for thunderdome? 12:11:44 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1553-ga1c4b89: Move starcursed masses from x to X 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a1c4b89536c2 12:11:44 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1554-gcc59d1b: Don't hard-code Abyss max depth in two more places 10(64 minutes ago, 2 files, 7+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cc59d1b4558d 12:11:44 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1555-g3d21666: Don't give Lugonu piety for banishing monsters deeper into the Abyss 10(63 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d216668d3ff 12:11:44 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1556-g4b7caeb: Give thrashing horrors no_poly_to 10(50 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b7caeb6ff91 12:11:44 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1557-gc39e727: Let apocalypse crabs spawn in the Abyss 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c39e7279a1b4 12:11:44 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1558-g7b01df3: Don't give deep dwarf scions gold 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7b01df3b9957 12:11:50 i think you'd just have to parse a ton of logs or something, it's not tracked anywhere else unfortunately 12:12:17 hmm, okay 12:13:37 !log lexackson sprint 12:13:38 616. LexAckson, XL27 DDBe, T:8152: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/LexAckson/morgue-LexAckson-20130101-180759.txt 12:13:56 it would definitely be cool if the score field could track arena points somehow 12:14:05 but that sounds terrifying and impossible 12:14:41 probably not actually, but impossible to me at least :P 12:15:41 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:37 haha 12:16:40 it would be neat 12:17:14 the score is listed in the notes at the bottom of the log 12:17:25 maybe it's a milestone? 12:19:41 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:20:32 apocalypse crabs are basically the best idea 12:20:41 -!- codile has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 12:22:32 Do they use time attacks 12:22:40 apocalypse crab (16t) | Spd: 11 | HD: 8 | HP: 38-66 | AC/EV: 11/6 | Dam: 1509(chaos), 1509(chaos) | 05demonic, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(53), 05fire++, 02cold++, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 09poison, 08holy++ | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 492 | Sp: chaos blast (d12) | Sz: small | Int: insect. 12:22:40 %??apocalypse crab 12:25:11 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 12:28:48 -!- rwbarton has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:29:17 Eronarn: thanks. I created them after getting killed by a fire crab 12:29:42 I *really* like the tile that ontoclasm made, and I don't even play tiles 12:32:26 the tile that isn't actually in? 12:32:34 hah, i was about to ask, yeah 12:32:40 since i couldn't find it 12:33:04 It was linked in ##crawl-dev at some point way back when 12:36:35 to the logs! 12:37:12 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1000017/crawl/apo_crab.png 12:38:03 or that 12:39:27 i don't think i can do all the tile optimisation stuff on windows so i'll leave it for someone else to add 12:39:51 MarvinPA: what needs to be done? 12:40:55 i think just the stuff in https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/docs/develop/tiles_creation.txt#line466 12:42:04 Now that I look at that tile again, it looks rather icy, don't you think? 12:42:39 I think I remembered it being a different color 12:43:36 it's opalescent! 12:44:25 Then shouldn't it not be monotone? 12:44:25 ("An opalescent crab with jet black eyes.") 12:44:38 (Not that I am complaining, really, by the way) 12:44:58 well, doesn't matter to me but i think it looks good 12:45:13 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:35 -!- blackcustard has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:48:41 -!- browncus1ard is now known as blackcustard 12:48:51 -!- blackcustard has quit [Changing host] 12:49:01 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:11 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:55:05 DracoOmega: unless you want to make an ice crab ;) 12:55:27 I have no such desire in particular at the moment 12:57:12 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:00 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:01:36 -!- swarmer has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:05:02 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:05:36 bh: any thoughts on trying thrashing horrors without the berserk+neutral thing? i think they'd work okay just as a batty fast trampler 13:05:41 going neutral turns out to just not really work 13:05:57 MarvinPA: renders them harmless, you mean? 13:06:04 since they don't achieve much of anything, just move around a bunch and maybe accidentally hit things once in a while 13:06:05 yeah 13:06:22 we might be able to fix it by tweaking the 'uselessness' check on frenzy 13:07:00 hm, how so? 13:07:24 only go frenzy if they end adjacent to foe? only frenzy if they can only see foe? 13:07:31 or we could put it in the escape spell slot 13:08:13 hm, well even if there are foes nearby i think they quickly lose their targets in the turns they spend frenzied 13:08:23 having it as an escape thing for flavour could be okay 13:08:29 http://i.imgur.com/6AGt3.png -- optimized 13:08:45 ok, I'll move the slot 13:09:37 cool 13:09:55 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:27 I guess that turns them into abyss bears ;) 13:10:37 heh 13:12:20 03bh 07* 0.12-a0-1559-g5572fa3: Thrashing Horrors should frenzy as escape 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5572fa3947bd 13:20:15 MarvinPA: are tiles on another branch? /dat/tiles seems a bit sparse 13:20:33 /rltiles/ 13:20:35 wrong folder, it's- 13:20:36 yeah :P 13:21:37 need to add it to dc-mon.txt and tilepick.cc and i'm not sure where else, i think that's everything for monster tiles? 13:22:00 Calypso (L1 TrBe) ERROR: range check error (34 / 34) (D:1) 13:22:11 %rim 0 -- what on earth does that mean? 13:22:53 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:12 "Use the %rim property to control whether Crawl needs to draw a black outline around your tile or whether it already has one." 13:23:18 (tiles_creation.txt) 13:23:29 wtf are we doing 'properly documenting' functionality? 13:23:55 heh 13:24:07 if it helps, some of it is only properly documented on the wiki :P 13:24:13 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:rltiles (i didn't know this existed!) 13:26:16 * bh builds tiles for the first time ever 13:28:25 typo in the ancient zyme description 13:28:28 "born" should be "borne" 13:30:41 Oops -.- 13:31:05 Wait, that bit was just copy-pasted from due's, I think 13:31:42 Wensley: you have found an error. For penance you must dive the abyss. 13:31:58 Though I still ought to have caught it when I added it in 13:32:31 bh: Hey, *I* appreciate errors being pointed out :P 13:32:55 DracoOmega: do you want a body count or not? :) 13:33:29 I can't kill people via typos! 13:33:41 people kill themselves with typos 13:33:56 not much of a murder tool though yes 13:33:57 I suppose this is true 13:34:12 fr: monster that silently remaps your keyboard 13:34:17 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:35:39 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:35:43 strong confusion 13:35:45 nasty confusion 13:36:00 DracoOmega: call it 'h,soav' (I think that's dvorak typed on a qwerty keyboard) 13:37:36 03bh 07* 0.12-a0-1560-g7cbc0bb: Add Apocalypse Crab tile 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7cbc0bbd244f 13:37:58 <|amethyst> hm, so if I set a global variable in a map prelude, why is it not visible later on (to &^t, or to dlua.callfn)? 13:39:18 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:39:41 -!- Moredread has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:40:57 bh DracoOmega etc: newnewabyss is super sweet, best crawl version forever 13:41:32 Yay ^^ 13:41:59 Wensley: w00t 13:42:14 Wensley: let us know when you get to Abyss:5 13:42:40 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1561-g89867ac: Typo fix (Wensley) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=89867ac352d9 13:44:26 <|amethyst> oh, I guess the map stuff runs in its own environment? but using _G["blah"] there doesn't work either 13:46:07 bh: do you get anything for getting to abyss:27? 13:46:26 5 is the last floor 13:46:27 DracoOmega: monster that reverses your direction keys 13:46:30 ????? 13:46:31 so sad 13:46:50 Wensley: you get a crash on abyss:27 ;) 13:47:12 bh: so can you only get the rune on 5? 13:47:20 <|amethyst> Wensley: 3 through 5 13:47:34 with 3 being very unlikely, 5 being very likely but with a crazy spawn rate 13:47:46 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:18 I guess this is okay 13:48:30 I'm just sad that diving to abyss:27 for absolutely no reason is no longer a thing 13:48:41 was looking forward to a new lugonu banner... 13:49:31 MarvinPA, |amethyst: I would like to remove food spawning in the abyss 13:49:56 so you have to haul more food there? 13:49:58 bh: how does abyss shifting handle tomb card? 13:50:09 Wensley: no clue 13:50:18 Removing food there would be a pretty horrible idea for people who get abyssed 13:50:20 <|amethyst> what do you mean by "shifting"? 13:50:29 <|amethyst> I've heard that used to refer to three different things 13:50:42 |amethyst: I have no idea what else it could mean 13:50:45 Wensley: abyss morphs? abyss recentering? or abyss teleports? 13:50:49 i would be okay with that except s/food/item/ personally 13:50:49 morphs 13:51:05 I kind of agree with elliptic that abyss should give no items or xp or piety whatsoever 13:51:20 That... sounds pretty awful to me, frankly 13:51:25 I might make food exempt from that though 13:52:01 <|amethyst> Wensley: probably the same as other manipulation: it stays until the cell would morph into something other than what it was before the manipulation 13:52:09 ok 13:52:10 <|amethyst> but I don't know about wall expiry 13:52:29 Wensley: it depends. Tomb should mark the square as 'NUKED' 13:52:32 <|amethyst> recentering shift might cause problems there 13:52:58 <|amethyst> hm, I guess markers etc get moved too? 13:53:08 |amethyst: there is a memory leak in the abyss priority queue. I suppose I should empty out the queue every so often 13:53:20 DracoOmega: well it removes all possible temptation to scum abyss 13:53:23 new abyss is really great 13:53:32 good work bh 13:53:37 DracoOmega: and also means there's no reason to e.g. stick around on earlier floors for slow but safe easy xp and items 13:53:39 elliott: How many people really do that, though? And is it really a problem if someone wants to? 13:53:40 lexackson: DracoOmega made most of the monsters :) 13:53:44 lexackson: thanks 13:53:46 so the whole diving into the abyss thing is made stronger 13:53:55 haha, well good work to you too DracoOmega 13:54:00 Thanks :) 13:54:14 lexackson: what do you like better about it? less liquids? 13:54:18 DracoOmega: well, not allowing even optional scumming is part of the design philosophy -- if it is beneficial and tedious then the temptation to do it is there 13:54:19 elliott: But really, that just sounds like it would make the Abyss feel all the more a slog if you get dumped in there involuntarily 13:54:22 (and yes people do scum the abyss!) 13:54:29 bh: nobody ever actually cared about the liquids 13:54:29 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I've seen people scum abyss for (things to sacrifice for) decks of wonders 13:54:33 elliott: I once scummed the abyss. I was looking for cure mut 13:54:37 i like that it is only 5 levels, and the less liquid yes 13:54:41 lies 13:54:44 DracoOmega: I think the monsters in the abyss are far more interesting than the items :P 13:54:45 the monsters work very well together 13:54:47 or at least should be 13:55:07 hrmph. Spatial maelstrom needs a tile 13:55:20 elliott: I mean, if you get no items or xp, then being there is just completely utterly bad. At least now there is the chance of getting something for your troubles 13:55:28 <|amethyst> no items I can see... no piety and no XP don't sound good to me 13:55:31 you get a rune 13:55:43 Not if you're just banished and want to get out 13:55:44 and if you're not strong enough to dive? 13:55:48 elliott, DracoOmega: we could have the abyss stop giving XP after a certain point 13:55:48 if you are banished and don't want the rune then I think being in the abyss is pretty bad anyway! 13:55:54 it's supposed to be a choice 13:55:56 and tempting people to just stay there for ages picking up loot is bad 13:56:07 I honestly sort of don't think most people find it very tempting 13:56:18 DracoOmega: completely utterly bad? often abyss is safer than wherever you were in the case of self-banishment 13:56:20 And trying to make it unscummable feels kind of pointless while Pan exists 13:56:30 provides an opportunity to heal,etc 13:56:36 elliott: what of pan 13:56:37 there are lots of ideas for making pan unscummable 13:56:42 o 13:56:43 monqy: pan is another thing entirely 13:56:45 there was an idea to make pan finite but just very long 13:56:45 but they are pointless while abyss exists! 13:56:47 I think pan should be finite 13:56:53 so please don't use that argument 13:56:57 but one part of the game being bad doesn't make another part being bad good 13:57:14 crawl has many problems, hopefully they can be solved one by one? 13:57:17 thingamajig fallacy etc 13:57:19 At the very least, I think that food NEEDS to spawn in the Abyss 13:57:32 Or many people will starve on an unlucky banishment 13:57:33 why? 13:58:14 I thought one of the points of the multi-level abyss was so that people could get a quicker exit by descending (at the cost of increased danger) 13:58:19 honest question, what kind of people even scum the abyss 13:58:25 what is there that they really want to find 13:58:31 xp 13:58:34 items 13:58:38 what kind of items 13:58:39 but maybe only lugonus 13:58:40 why not just have an ood timer 13:58:41 "things" 13:58:46 I guess removing food would actually provide better pressure to dive now 13:58:56 so consider me neutral rather than opposed (but opposed for previous abyss) 13:59:01 or spawning timer in general 13:59:05 elliptic: Well, I suppose that may alleviate some of that problem, but I know that MANY times I have been abyssed for far longer than the food I had on hand could have sustained me 13:59:16 after 20,000 turns in the abyss, it spawns cang 13:59:42 And I think any appreciable chance of an unavoiable starvation death from banishment is pretty bad 13:59:47 the only argument i can see for abyss items/exp is it introduces risks?? "do I get this item or kill this thing or". does itemless abyss apply to monster drops e.g. corpses dwhips or do they all vanish 14:00:04 probably stuff that didn't spawn in the abyss originally should give items xp piety 14:00:10 so that you don't have to kite mennas out of the abyss 14:00:23 DracoOmega: you can get out of the abyss much quicker now though 14:00:38 Hence 'I suppose that may alleviate some of that problem' 14:00:39 at the cost of tenser situations and more danger (isn't it good for being low on resources to make the game more exciting?) 14:00:42 i thought exits weren't actually more common yet 14:00:46 with depth 14:00:48 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:00:57 well they aren't but I'm assuming they will become so since it is a pretty major omission 14:01:02 rune spawns more exits still at least 14:01:05 well they should be since that was one of the main points of the abyss depth thingy... 14:01:06 but when that is changed then yes 14:01:20 <|amethyst> HangedMan: yeah, but you're not going to go for the rune when you get banished by Erolcha 14:01:40 fair enough 14:01:44 elliptic: well the monster count/distribution in the abyss didn't even change with depth until a few hours ago :P 14:01:50 (as in, post-merge) 14:02:00 trunk reasons 14:02:28 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:02:37 i'm in favor of starvation risk since (assuming exit increase with depth) it gives non-metagame reason to take the to take the danger/quicker-exit tradeoff (so staying around in abyss:1 doesn't end up along the lines of "balanced by tedium") 14:03:12 I think there are already fairly compelling reasons to make that tradeoff even without food but I'm starting to think it would be a good addition 14:05:35 I suppose I can't entirely argue with that, though I am wary 14:05:48 No exp probably bothers me more than no items, though 14:06:09 no XP is bad. please don't nerf loakrobin any more 14:06:15 no exp doesn't bother me at all... 14:06:40 what reason is there to be bothered by no exp 14:06:49 the argmuent against no xp I can see is that it further promotes running away from everything in abyss... but ideally abyss monsters should make this unviable 14:06:53 since otherwise it'll be boring 14:07:37 i like the idea of XP only for non-abyss-natives but that's hard to convey 14:08:13 <|amethyst> just set their xp mod to zero 14:08:36 <|amethyst> I guess that doesn't help with things like 1s and 2s 14:08:58 elliott: Yes, I do think that making it even more pointless to fight things is bad. Also, it does feel unintuitive to me. Moreover, I don't like the idea of not getting a reward to dealing with genuine threats. 14:09:09 for* 14:09:22 the reward is you get to still be alive 14:09:31 the reward is the threat is gone 14:09:40 And why is that not sufficient everywhere ELSE? 14:09:46 <|amethyst> wouldn't that same argument justify removing XP from vaults 14:09:48 <|amethyst> what DracoOmega said 14:10:11 I was just about to ask what of the poor non-stair non-rune abyss vaults in this model 14:10:23 well vaults aren't infinite 14:10:48 other places are not infinitely scummable, yes... I am certainly open to other suggestions for making abyss non-infinitely scummable though 14:10:59 well it seems to me that the item and xp issues are entirely orthogonal 14:11:12 If you're just concerned about infinite kills, surely there are other ways than just making nothing give xp there everf 14:11:16 both involve ways to scum the abyss but I'd say the item one is probably more problematic 14:11:30 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: couldn't you just say "lifetime XP limit of X", and once you've gotten that much, no more? 14:11:30 just removing items seems fine on its own, yeah 14:11:49 what about just indefinitely scaling up floor spawn rates the longer you've spent in the abyss 14:11:58 Or perhaps just have abyss spawns start getting progressively nastier after you're obviously farming the place? 14:12:10 <|amethyst> I guess that might still encourage scumming Abyss:1 since it's easier than, say, Geh 14:13:15 the item thing also seems to have a lot fewer possible solutions whereas the xp issue has many potentially complex ways to resolve it 14:13:26 Or maybe some nasty xp-less stuff starts replacing normal spawns progressively with time? Maybe something a bit like spatial maelstroms (though I don't know how those themselves work for this in practice) 14:14:00 But more like an environmental hazard than creatures 14:14:20 <|amethyst> or flag things as durably summoned after some amount of time 14:14:26 <|amethyst> s/things/new things/ 14:14:36 I mean, you can scum regular floors for more xp than almost anyone ever does, anyway. 14:15:00 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: abyss spawns quicker, though 14:15:32 Yes, but I mean that they use a system that gives them a finite limit and this seems fine without almost anyone reaching it. I'd think some parallel could apply to the abyss without too much problem 14:15:40 If infinite xp from there is considered a real concern 14:16:28 infinite items is certainly the bigger problem 14:16:40 probably infinite piety is even a bigger problem than infinite xp 14:17:01 <|amethyst> elliptic: MH_ELDRITCH will help with that 14:17:09 <|amethyst> if no one gives piety for eldritch kills 14:17:15 That seems odd to me, though 14:17:23 <|amethyst> but there are still enough demons I guess 14:17:27 well, there's obviously lots of disagreement about piety and xp, right? 14:17:39 it seems like focusing on items is more productive since there seems to be more agreement there 14:18:14 <|amethyst> how does ash piety work with the abyss, anyway? 14:19:38 <|amethyst> and re items, what about drops? could flag everything spawned in the abyss as MF_HARD_RESET I guess 14:20:17 <|amethyst> I don't think it's good to prevent drops from things that are there because you abyssed them, though I guess that's a minor issue 14:20:31 <|amethyst> or maybe not minor if you abyss Geryon 14:21:11 I don't think enough things there have drops that you'd care about to be worried about this, personally 14:21:21 And there are tons of, say, Balrugs elsewhere 14:21:32 A lot more than you're likely to find in the abyss itself, certainly 14:21:43 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:55 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: but those places are arguably harder than abyss 14:22:24 They are, but I think if you're in shape to FARM the abyss for an extended length of time, you're probably plenty strong to go kill a couple of those elsewhere 14:22:28 does inception have deep dwarf packs? that's corpses and healing potions! 14:22:32 -!- Moredread has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:36 |amethyst: abyssing geryon or mennas or whatever is already annoying enough 14:22:40 healing potions were going to be removed from qwarves 14:22:40 making people kite them to an exit sounds annoying 14:22:43 though it's certainly a mega edge case 14:22:52 "were going to"? 14:23:14 It may be an edge case, but I don't think that the PRIMARY case represents a significant chunk of item farming in the abyss, anyway 14:23:32 |amethyst: personally I think just removing floor items would be a start if item removal is a thing 14:23:33 DracoOmega: also wrt balrugs...what if abyss is the safest place to farm them? 14:23:37 since that is the vast majority of items 14:24:09 monqy: I'm not actually sure I think this is true, given their relative rarity 14:24:28 And the fact that you don't exactly need to kill many of them to get a decent whip, at which point further ones are kinda superfluous 14:26:08 Long-term abyss farming is certainly safer than long-term farming in some other places with more balrugs, but you don't really need to do this long-term - you could just dip in and out if you were so inclined 14:28:29 <|amethyst> any thoughts to my lua problem? I want to set a global (or, at least, something I can access from C code) when a particular map is used 14:28:39 <|amethyst> s/C/C++/ 14:29:40 <|amethyst> but map preludes run in their own environment, and _G seems to also refer to that environment 14:34:34 <|amethyst> oh, looks like I can stick it in dgn or something 14:34:36 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:34:38 -!- GON_again has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:39:42 <|amethyst> okay, this works... MarvinPA, what was your thought for thunderdome score? 14:39:58 <|amethyst> style_points, or style_points * 100000, or what? 14:42:26 |amethyst: do you/we have an idea of how much XP Snake/Shoals/Swamp/Spider give? 14:43:10 I would be totally happy with placing some XP limit on the abyss and having it go 'cold and dark' when you hit that limit 14:43:36 "Lucy takes her ball and goes home." 14:43:48 <|amethyst> does that mean no chance for the rune? 14:43:51 Ok, found it >.< 14:44:56 <|amethyst> bh: I think I'd rather make all new spawns MF_NO_REWARD after a limit, but I guess that's inconsistent with other levels 14:45:28 <|amethyst> bh: as for XP from branches, could check the dumps of people who completed those branches 14:45:59 I seem to recall evilmike once doing some stats on that? Or maybe that was just the rune vaults 14:46:04 XP in branches has a lot of variance 14:46:19 what if after so many turns in the abyss the level started to crumble, and you were forced to go on? Like the level starts real big and then gets smaller the longer you 14:46:20 re there 14:46:25 and yeah, people have done stats on it... there may even exist tools for it, I don't know 14:47:11 I think there are tools 14:47:18 people seem to measure it semi-regularly 14:47:30 I think I'd personally rather progressively replace spawns with exp-less nastiness of some sort. I think it would be more intuitive to have the stuff not granting exp not look the same as the stuff that does, and just have it change in the background without possibly being obvious that suddenly they're not granting exp 14:47:30 I'm not very excited about putting an XP cap on abyss though, since infinite items/piety are bigger problems anyway... 14:47:46 I mean, if you're going to do something of that nature at all 14:47:54 <|amethyst> elliptic: I think this would be in addition to item removal 14:48:00 but what about piety? 14:48:03 <|amethyst> elliptic: and once you hit the XP cap, you can't get any more piety 14:48:23 why not just make it a turncount cap then? 14:48:25 <|amethyst> since there's nothing new to give piety (either because there's nothing or because it's MF_NO_REWARD) 14:48:36 Make the abyss just fill up with twisters :P 14:48:42 +1 14:49:16 <|amethyst> elliptic: I don't know... then your "real" visit to the abyss (for purposes of getting the rune) is nerfed for every time you got banished before 14:49:46 |amethyst: but XP is not really very well correlated with piety gain 14:50:27 if you were just interested in scumming piety, you'd want to specifically avoid killing monsters that don't give piety but do give XP, before you hit the XP cap 14:50:46 it just feels simpler to use turncount 14:51:01 I'm not sure Abyss needs to be made finite, if we already have Pan, and a single Zig gives more xp than you need to max all your basic skills. 14:51:06 I don't see a problem with people getting banished early on, the xp/piety is worth more then 14:51:19 kilobyte: pan can be made finite too (lots of proposals) 14:51:55 people here seem to like to use pan as a reason not to make abyss unscummable, and abyss as a reason not to make pan unscummable 14:51:58 elliptic: Zigs then 14:52:32 and even if we made a limit of 1 Zig per game, it's not like you are going to need anything more after completing it 14:52:44 radical idea: Let's see how the players behave :) 14:52:46 well, usually the people who are scumming abyss are doing it because they want a specific spell for zig 14:52:54 (or for elsewhere) 14:53:27 or they are doing it for piety right after converting to 14:53:40 -!- localhost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:09 too many places for free piety 14:54:46 elliptic: grr.. like that time I didn't get warned on removing a randart amulet of faith and had to scum the abyss for TSO piety 14:54:57 another idea: what if we stressed Abyss progression, and made it force going down somehow (even if by making upper levels go "cold and dark")? 14:55:26 <|amethyst> regular OOD timer? 14:55:38 or that 14:55:51 <|amethyst> longer than the usual one I guess 14:56:25 you wouldn't need an artificial cap if Abyss:27 resembles Zig:27 14:56:49 there's no abyss:27 :P 14:59:04 elliott: if you say that too many times, we might get an abyss:27 14:59:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 14:59:32 ! Now that we have eldritch monsters, can we get an abyss-zig? 14:59:56 an abyss-zig? 15:00:01 there is already an abyss zig 15:00:02 there's already abyss levels 15:00:02 there's already abyss zig levels if that's what you mean 15:00:09 it is... quite nasty nowadays 15:01:17 oh. splendid. 15:02:07 <|amethyst> hm.. my score function is still around with restart_after_game 15:03:06 -!- Wehk__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:11 abyzzig 15:04:24 could make a specifically eldritch level 15:05:07 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:26 * bh updates the wiki, crowning himself as the weakest player on the devteam 15:05:34 starcursed masses will reach critical mass and kill you in one nuclear-powered smite, though 15:05:39 !lg * won |amethyst 15:05:39 Malformed argument: 15:05:45 !lg * won amethyst 15:05:45 Malformed argument: amethyst 15:05:56 !lg |amethyst won 15:05:56 !lg amethsyt won 15:05:56 2. Neil the Faith Healer (L27 HOHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-10-04 20:54:19, with 1318561 points after 99008 turns and 8:11:47. 15:05:56 No games for amethsyt (won). 15:06:09 <|amethyst> !lg bh won 15:06:10 3. bh the Hellbinder (L27 MfSu), worshipper of The Shining One, escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2012-08-20 05:55:18, with 2050607 points after 152968 turns and 18:31:13. 15:06:23 <|amethyst> I had one offline win, so maybe we're tied 15:06:26 <|amethyst> !lg bh/won 15:06:26 3/1254 games for bh: N=3/1254 (0.24%) 15:06:30 <|amethyst> !lg neil/won 15:06:31 2/5297 games for neil: N=2/5297 (0.04%) 15:06:35 touche. 15:06:38 !lg kilobyte/won 15:06:39 21/9491 games for kilobyte: N=21/9491 (0.22%) 15:06:47 !lg dpeg/won 15:06:48 18/1513 games for dpeg: N=18/1513 (1.19%) 15:07:01 !lg elliptic/won 15:07:02 426/1519 games for elliptic: N=426/1519 (28.04%) 15:07:06 <|amethyst> !lg ontoclasm/won 15:07:06 8/567 games for ontoclasm: N=8/567 (1.41%) 15:07:11 <|amethyst> !lg grunt/won 15:07:11 8/555 games for grunt: N=8/555 (1.44%) 15:07:16 beh, a win rate even worse than mine? Now you got to have done that on purpose. 15:07:32 kilobyte: to be fair, some of my losses are from botting during the tourney 15:07:32 <|amethyst> !lg neil !quitting /won 15:07:32 2/4889 games for neil (!quitting): N=2/4889 (0.04%) 15:07:46 <|amethyst> !lg neil !quitting !ak /won 15:07:46 2/4665 games for neil (!quitting !ak): N=2/4665 (0.04%) 15:08:32 I mean |amethyst -- far worse winrate than mine, and I did a fair share of startscumming as a n00b 15:08:48 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:01 <|amethyst> !lg neil !quitting !ak !t /won 15:09:01 2/4391 games for neil (!quitting !ak !t): N=2/4391 (0.05%) 15:09:14 <|amethyst> !lg neil !quitting !ak !t s=xl 15:09:15 4391 games for neil (!quitting !ak !t): 879x 1, 747x 3, 598x 4, 560x 2, 468x 5, 317x 6, 228x 7, 193x 8, 141x 9, 107x 10, 63x 11, 37x 12, 18x 13, 13x 14, 5x 16, 4x 15, 4x 18, 3x 27, 2x 19, 23, 17, 22, 26 15:09:17 even worse, I did suicide characters by playing extra recklessly rather than quitting so this can't be filtered out 15:11:42 !nick devteam 15:11:42 Mapping devteam => kilobyte pointless dpeg enne evktalo keskitalo bookofjude haranp rax rob sorear zaba felirx doy itsmu greensnark MarvinPA evilmike grunt sgrunt neil edlothiol jpeg erisdiscordia galehar elliptic ontoclasm 15:11:42 No nick mapping for devteam. 15:11:48 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:12:05 <|amethyst> !lg devteam !boring s=name / won 15:12:06 622/29605 games for devteam (!boring): 1/2x galehar [50.00%], 127/289x elliptic [43.94%], 62/514x evilmike [12.06%], 62/531x itsmu [11.68%], 6/76x Keskitalo [7.89%], 3/45x edlothiol [6.67%], 50/844x pointless [5.92%], 1/21x felirx [4.76%], 5/133x haranp [3.76%], 82/2323x MarvinPA [3.53%], 30/866x doy [3.46%], 17/498x greensnark [3.41%], 58/2078x rob [2.79%], 24/989x rax [2.43%], 3/128x evktalo [2.... 15:12:10 <|amethyst> !lg devteam !boring s=name / -won 15:12:11 Malformed argument: -won 15:12:22 !lg devteam !boring s=name / won o=-% 15:12:22 622/29605 games for devteam (!boring): 0/42x Enne [0.00%], 0/11x jpeg [0.00%], 0/150x Zaba [0.00%], 2/4888x Neil [0.04%], 21/8153x KiloByte [0.26%], 5/1165x bookofjude [0.43%], 25/3111x sorear [0.80%], 9/819x erisdiscordia [1.10%], 7/538x SGrunt [1.30%], 17/1099x dpeg [1.55%], 5/292x ontoclasm [1.71%], 3/128x evktalo [2.34%], 24/989x rax [2.43%], 58/2078x rob [2.79%], 17/498x greensnark [3.41%], 3... 15:13:09 ??boring 15:13:09 boring[1/1]: quit|leave 15:13:20 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:13:23 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:27 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:30 ??devteam 15:13:31 !nick devteam bh 15:13:31 Mapping devteam => kilobyte pointless dpeg enne evktalo keskitalo bookofjude haranp rax rob sorear zaba felirx doy itsmu greensnark MarvinPA evilmike grunt sgrunt neil edlothiol jpeg erisdiscordia galehar elliptic ontoclasm bh 15:13:31 devteam[1/4]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:admin:devteam 15:13:31 Mapping devteam => bh 15:13:36 elliptic: thanks ;) 15:13:48 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:48 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:48 -!- Harms_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:48 -!- flyingpants has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:48 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:48 -!- bmob has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:56 who's pointless? 15:14:18 <|amethyst> bh: caotto 15:14:38 -!- Fungus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:58 |amethyst: if they don't use irc, I don't know 'em. (Unless they're neunon) 15:15:03 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:15:04 (or enne or haran) 15:16:04 <|amethyst> bh: before my time, but according to dcss:admin:devteam he implemented Fedhas and kraken tentacles 15:16:30 <|amethyst> !nick devteam frogbotherer 15:16:30 Mapping devteam => kilobyte pointless dpeg enne evktalo keskitalo bookofjude haranp rax rob sorear zaba felirx doy itsmu greensnark MarvinPA evilmike grunt sgrunt neil edlothiol jpeg erisdiscordia galehar elliptic ontoclasm bh frogbotherer 15:16:30 Mapping devteam => bh frogbotherer 15:16:49 Henzell seems to have lost his memory 15:16:51 !gamesby frogbotherer 15:16:51 frogbotherer has played 3 games, between 2011-10-01 20:20:47 and 2011-10-13 20:46:53, won 0, high score 7347, total score 8111, total turns 14202, total time 3:19:54. 15:17:17 <|amethyst> oh, hm 15:17:19 <|amethyst> !nick devteam Napkin 15:17:19 Mapping devteam => kilobyte pointless dpeg enne evktalo keskitalo bookofjude haranp rax rob sorear zaba felirx doy itsmu greensnark MarvinPA evilmike grunt sgrunt neil edlothiol jpeg erisdiscordia galehar elliptic ontoclasm bh frogbotherer napkin 15:17:19 Mapping devteam => bh frogbotherer napkin 15:18:30 <|amethyst> I have the old nicks.map, I guess I could merge them 15:18:36 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-1562-g2a99ef2: Fix the wizard up/down stairs command to work properly with the new Abyss. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2a99ef24b3be 15:18:40 <|amethyst> but that would miss stuff added during Henzell's absence 15:18:59 <|amethyst> or if someone could get me sequell's nicks.map I could plug that in 15:23:08 bh: util/db_lint -- spot one problem you caused 15:23:21 fiiiix! 15:23:51 kilobyte: No description for feature 'A gateway leading deeper into the Abyss'! 15:24:14 (not doing that myself: you don't want my descriptions; I did describe a ton of stuff a few months ago, and dolorous had to fix basically every single one) 15:25:00 -!- hart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:14 <|amethyst> btw, I think spatial vortex desc should mention that they can go through walls 15:25:46 %s/vortex/maelstrom 15:25:51 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ben weg] 15:25:53 or we could ask whoever went through Bal-Sagoth lyrics before to find something appropriate 15:25:55 <|amethyst> err, yeah 15:26:25 <|amethyst> hm 15:26:52 <|amethyst> dlua.execstring("crawl.calc_score = nil", "reset"); seems hacky, but actually writing that in C++ is a pain 15:27:16 <|amethyst> I'm sure someone who knows Lua better than I could implement this in a much better way 15:27:41 for sprint, any reason to not disable banishment there outright? 15:28:09 <|amethyst> any thoughts on arena_sprint scoring? 15:28:27 "A malnevolent rift in reality, reducing existence to an empty, writhing void." 15:28:31 <|amethyst> what is the max style_points ? 15:28:56 HangedMan: something more descriptive would be better 15:29:09 |amethyst: run Flesch–Kincaid on all of our text ;) 15:29:33 but the style itself sounds good 15:29:49 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:19 -!- magistern has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:56 <|amethyst> bh: and anything too low is rejected? 15:31:02 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:02 <|amethyst> FR: Basic English translation 15:32:01 well AKs have starting abyss 15:33:46 03bh 07* 0.12-a0-1563-g7668008: Abyssal stair description 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7668008e9bc9 15:38:40 |amethyst: :) makes a little bit more sense than "FR: american english translation" but how would one deal with the names of most monsters? 15:39:32 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-1564-gfc9ec0d: Tweak wording. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fc9ec0dfd9a5 15:40:38 |amethyst: hmm, i guess the score could just use arena points directly? that seems simplest, since it's a completely different scale to other scores anyway 15:41:15 well, there are existing scores in the Sequell database 15:41:27 some kind of balancing with them so they're on the same order of magnitude might be reasonable? 15:41:40 they wouldn't be comparable at all anyway surely 15:42:27 <|amethyst> bhaak: sixfirhy = electric bad thing 15:42:43 append "bad thing" to the name of every monster? 15:42:43 <|amethyst> bhaak: crimson imp = red little bad thing 15:42:47 sigmund bad thing 15:42:51 <|amethyst> no, "bad thing" for demons 15:43:40 <|amethyst> err, I guess "red small bad thing" 15:44:31 sigmund bad german thing ;-) 15:44:54 <|amethyst> how does one say "big" in Basic English? "not small"? 15:45:38 I guess "big" is a basic word 15:45:49 <|amethyst> it's not in Ogden's list 15:46:07 <|amethyst> "fat" is 15:46:15 it's only Newspeak that has a strict rule against opposite adjectives 15:47:03 <|amethyst> Ogden's has opposites (in fact, "small" is under the "Qualities - opposites" category) 15:47:13 <|amethyst> ah, "great" 15:47:31 <|amethyst> executioner = great quick bad thing 15:48:46 -!- Pthing has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:03 |amethyst: great ball of eyes 15:49:05 one of these days I'm going to write a bunch of descriptions with subtle grammatical errors just for dolorous. 15:49:10 "A malevolent rift in reality, shredding all terrain it passes into swirling vortexes and reducing existence to an empty, writhing void."? bah, I hate writing much 15:49:23 also: what's "life protection" and "negative energy" in this basic english stuff 15:50:36 bh: subtle would be a welcome break from correcting dirty foreigners like me 15:51:01 HangedMan: dead power attack 15:51:08 hah 15:51:50 Dead power attack ray touches you. 15:52:23 <|amethyst> the word list is at http://ogden.basic-english.org/words.html 15:53:46 <|amethyst> Eronarn: "touch" is a noun :) 15:55:17 <|amethyst> dead power attack ray does a touch at you 15:55:46 demons, dead powered 15:57:52 this seems wrong: verbing nouns seems to be more basic to me than nouning verbs. "to touch" is something simple, "the act of touching" not so much. 15:58:42 HangedMan: dead powered is something for the undead 15:58:53 demons have rN stuff! 15:59:09 so does a table 15:59:30 evidently living sucks 15:59:50 <|amethyst> hm... my score thing doesn't exactly work... it's fine as long as you don't save/restore 16:00:09 -!- GON_again has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:14 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Ukončuji] 16:02:13 -!- some_guy has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:05 -!- mineral has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:13 |amethyst: how many 30-day unique players do we have on cszo? It's time to start monetizing this thing ;) 16:10:58 -!- Findor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:14:14 !lg * start>=20121201 s=src x=cdist(name) 16:14:15 57292 games for * (start>=20121201): 23972x cdo [1184], 24765x cszo [798], 7828x cao [331], 727x csn [27] 16:15:09 put ads on dgl 16:15:20 "Play Dwarf Fortress for free! Your kingdom awaits." 16:15:43 <|amethyst> okay, I guess I have something... putting a global_function() wrapper in dgn.persist.calc_score 16:16:40 Zannick: "Minecraft, it's like Dwarf Fortress but easier on your CPU" 16:16:57 easier on your brain, too 16:17:02 but then where's the fun? 16:17:57 <|amethyst> but Minecraft lacks apiculture 16:18:54 play progress quest, watch numbers go up forever" 16:20:19 <|amethyst> !lg * sprint s=map x=max(score) 16:20:20 180244 games for *: 6050x arena sprint [99999999], 41599x dungeon sprint mu [66219908], 3019x pitsprint [15290882], 10999x dungeon sprint fedhas [1475168], 9827x sprint v [982889], 26826x [810939], 19887x the violet keep of menkaure [472999], 62030x dungeon sprint 1 [332865], hangedman abyss monster moat [31992], 2x abyss greek temple [31043], minivault 22 [1318], minivault 11 [614], evilmike aby... 16:24:20 -!- freefall has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:17 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:13 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:03 -!- mineral_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:05 <|amethyst> does someone with more knowledge of crawl's Lua want to look over my patches for arenasprint scoring? 16:43:18 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/0001-Allow-sprints-etc-to-define-a-scoring-function.patch http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/0002-Use-style-points-as-the-thunderdome-score.patch 16:45:51 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:46:26 <|amethyst> oh, hm 16:47:25 are function references supposed to survive save/restore? 16:48:20 I don't remember exactly how greensnark's fix worked, but as far as I know, they're supposed to be passed by name now 16:48:56 at least, I'd check saving in a 32 bit build and restoring in a 64 bit one 16:48:57 <|amethyst> kilobyte: that's why I'm using global_function() 16:49:18 <|amethyst> it saves by name, but is callable 16:49:23 <|amethyst> but I found another problem 16:49:40 <|amethyst> which is that dgn.persist.calc_score_data = arena_marker.data of course serialises separately 16:49:53 <|amethyst> so if you save/restore any subsequent points don't count 16:50:11 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 16:52:31 <|amethyst> not sure how to get the marker data to calc_score... 17:03:26 -!- Zephryn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:52 <|amethyst> also not sure how to figure out if we won 17:04:13 <|amethyst> I guess that could be another parameter to calc_score 17:10:57 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:10 -!- codile has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 17:19:35 -!- stanzillglotz has quit [Quit: schnarch] 17:29:52 -!- codile has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 17:30:55 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:34:24 -!- archl has quit [Client Quit] 17:36:49 <|amethyst> Updated the arenasprint scoring patches to multiply the score by rune count for winners... still has the save/restore problem 17:37:19 <|amethyst> I have no idea how to persistently refer to arena_marker.data 17:38:58 <|amethyst> I'm half-tempted to set dgn.persist.calc_score_data = data on every call to thing_do_arena(), but there has to be a better way 17:39:52 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:41:33 -!- kekekela_ is now known as kekekela 17:44:15 <|amethyst> actually, I can do one better than that... just use style_points as the persistent data... in fact it doesn't even need to be in data now 17:52:26 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:54:02 <|amethyst> and that means I don't need this "data" parameter to calc_score 18:01:08 -!- mineral has quit [Client Quit] 18:02:53 -!- _dd has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:03:16 ??lm 18:03:17 milestone[1/4]: Milestone fields: v, cv, name, race, cls, char, xl, sk, sklev, title, place, br, lvl, ltyp, hp, mhp, mmhp, str, int, dex, god, dur, turn, nrune, urune, time, type, noun, milestone, game_id. game_id points at the game owning the milestone, to see the corresponding game use !lg * id=<1245>. game_id may be null. 18:03:26 ??milestone[2] 18:03:26 milestone[2/4]: type = type of milestone (see !lm * s=type for all types), noun = the thing that the milestone refers to. noun may be Sigmund if type=uniq, for instance. 18:03:33 ??milestone[3] 18:03:33 milestone[3/4]: As an alternative to saying !lm type=X noun=Y, you can use !lm X=Y, for instance !lm uniq=Sigmund. As an alternative to !lm type=X s=noun, you can say !lm s=X, for instance !lm s=ghost. 18:03:42 ??lg 18:03:43 listgame[1/6]: !lg command displays info about past games. The manual is available here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell/raw/master/docs/listgame.txt 18:03:46 <|amethyst> !lm * abyss.end 18:03:46 Malformed argument: abyss.end 18:03:52 <|amethyst> !lm * br.end = abyss 18:03:52 No milestones for * (br.end=_abyss). 18:03:56 <|amethyst> !lm * br.end=abyss 18:03:56 1. [2013-01-01 17:11:54] neil the Covert (L6 SpAK) reached level 5 of the Abyss on turn 473. (Abyss:5) 18:04:22 w00t 18:04:37 !lm * place=abyss:* killer 18:04:37 No milestones for * (place=abyss:*_killer). 18:04:53 I suspect I'm never going to learn lg/lm syntax 18:05:27 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 18:13:21 <|amethyst> okay, this appears to work now 18:13:25 <|amethyst> I guess I should push 18:13:39 <|amethyst> bh: it took me a while, and I still have to look things up fairly regularly 18:14:13 |amethyst: I just type in the wrong thing until someone else fixes it for me :) 18:14:19 <|amethyst> !lg * sprint map=arena_sprint 18:14:19 6051. ABBAdon the Envoy of Void (L12 DsNe), worshipper of Lugonu, blasted by Fannar (Ozocubu's Refrigeration) in Sprint (Sprint VI: "Thunderdome") on 2013-01-01 22:32:53, with 46954 points after 2489 turns and 0:44:00. 18:14:52 <|amethyst> hm... scores will go way down 18:15:08 better than having everything 999999999 18:15:19 <|amethyst> I guess any queries about that will have to limit by date 18:15:33 <|amethyst> yeah 18:17:22 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:53 <|amethyst> hm... save compat 18:18:00 <|amethyst> wonder if anyone has arenasprint saves 18:18:23 |amethyst: I've just realized why crawl uses a fixed vec type. I'm not clever enough to cast something to *double[3] 18:18:51 <|amethyst> you mean doube*[3] ? 18:18:56 <|amethyst> err, double*[3] 18:19:32 yeah that. new works just fine, but casting the result of malloc get ugly 18:20:41 <|amethyst> where double*[3] would be the type of some function's argument? 18:20:55 yeah. I'm cleaning up Worley noise. 18:21:10 <|amethyst> (the real reason is for bounds checking) 18:21:19 yes. 18:22:26 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:23:00 Crawl's vec uses singles 18:23:13 which may or may not be good enough for you 18:23:22 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:23:33 I don't want to crawlify it, since I want this bit of code to be able to stand alone apart from dcss 18:24:13 fixedvec code is sometimes silly, too 18:24:31 This code needs a healthy dose of C++'ification 18:25:32 * kilobyte really misses coding in LPC. The language with best variant scalars, lists and mappings I ever used. 18:26:00 and unlike Perl, it had nice readable code 18:32:53 <|amethyst> bh: are you talking about the double (*foo)[3] ? 18:35:42 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:39:07 |amethyst: yes 18:39:12 <|amethyst> bh: (double (*)[3]) malloc(sizeof(double[3]) * numpoints) 18:39:29 |amethyst: ah. I was forgetting the parens around the first * 18:39:43 kilobyte: I'm such a language snob I'm rolling my own ;) 18:39:44 <|amethyst> yeah, without that it's an array of three pointers 18:39:55 <|amethyst> with that, it's a pointer to an array of length three 18:40:32 bh: oooh, share something about concepts you use 18:41:27 kilobyte: eager, pure, statically typed. haskell + scheme + ml 18:42:49 the perfect language for a roguelike ;) 18:44:23 -!- mivue has quit [Quit: mivue] 18:45:49 <|amethyst> so, should I worry about messing up existing arenasprint games? 18:46:02 * elliott thinks no 18:46:45 |amethyst: as long as it doesn't make my wins less spectacular, no. 18:47:06 <|amethyst> I mean ones that are currently saved 18:47:18 <|amethyst> don't really know how to check whether any exist 18:47:25 me too ;) 18:47:28 I wouldn't worry about it. 18:47:46 -!- Pikkle has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:50:15 what is trunk without a broken game here and there? :p 18:50:26 it's just sprint 18:50:54 |amethyst: 18:50:57 !lm * sprint !ktyp s=map 18:50:57 1046 milestones for * (!ktyp): 18:51:04 looks like there are no sprint saves? 18:51:09 oh 18:51:11 map only gets set after death 18:51:15 !lm * sprint !ktyp s=name 18:51:15 1046 milestones for * (!ktyp): 135x Ragdoll, 111x Fruden, 73x Lexicon, 41x xomscumming, 29x Surr, 27x 78291, 27x snoopy, 22x Cybermg, 19x tsaf, 18x luis21, 18x aabb, 14x reid, 14x MarvinPA, 14x Nosferax, 12x nuc, 12x YourImagination, 11x wrath, 10x q, 10x Daggerfall, 9x were, 9x Daydreamer, 8x mcevers, 8x Sandman, 7x Noms, 7x Rubinko, 7x Macaroon, 7x jorn, 6x sanka, 6x Felyza, 6x Grimm, 6x MadDash... 18:51:22 um 18:51:28 oh 18:51:32 !lm * sprint !ktyp x=cdist(gid) 18:51:32 1046 milestones for * (!ktyp): cdist(game_key)=328 18:52:07 <|amethyst> I just tested what happens... you get a lua error at the end of every round and don't get style points tracked... when you die, the lua error in the score calculator leads to you getting the default (old) score 18:52:25 <|amethyst> so it doesn't keep you from completing your game, just from knowing your style points 18:52:34 <|amethyst> pushing 18:53:21 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:41 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-1565-g907fe41: Allow sprints etc to define a scoring function. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 32+ 18-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=907fe4176883 18:56:41 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-1566-gae60b37: Use style points as the thunderdome score. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 22+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ae60b373a7f1 18:58:49 -!- flyingpants has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:07:48 -!- schistosome has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:08:02 -!- Fungus_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:16:16 <|amethyst> I'll ask here as well: does anyone know if Andre-Patrick Bubel is on IRC (so I can have Chei nick-map him)? 19:16:25 -!- unpaidbill has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:16:43 -!- Derbo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:16:54 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-1567-gbc7c97c: Adjust empty lines for clarity. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bc7c97cf7e2c 19:17:19 <|amethyst> oh, found it on mantis 19:21:19 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 19:26:43 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 19:27:05 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:26 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:29:10 -!- geekosaur has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 19:32:04 "y" key does not work in y/n dialogs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6487) by Skatche 19:33:29 -!- Dixbert_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:32 Isn't the 'y' key supposed to *not* work because it's a travel direction? 19:36:34 yeah 19:36:34 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:51 <|amethyst> just closed it with an explanation 19:37:00 <|amethyst> and a reference to easy_confirm 19:37:07 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:24 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:37:40 <|amethyst> err, so what markup does mantis accept 19:37:45 <|amethyst> neither nor work 19:37:59 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:38:17 <|amethyst> bah, just using instead 19:39:41 <|amethyst> don't some people advise always moving with shifted keys for safety? 19:40:14 <|amethyst> seems like that would reduce the safety of hard-confirm prompts 19:40:33 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:40:57 |amethyst: there are always "Type yes" prompts 19:41:13 <|amethyst> easy_confirm = NEVER!!! 19:41:50 could tie this to some vi keys toggle 19:42:14 if the prompt came up while you were shift traveling, you could oblige the player to type 'yes' 19:44:20 -!- One-eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:45:37 my point is, the issue with 'y' conflicting with a travel direction is there only if you use vi keys 19:46:16 sure. That's a reasonable point 19:46:17 <|amethyst> kilobyte: would also have to fix autofight 19:47:13 <|amethyst> %bug 5634 19:47:13 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5634 19:48:07 also, shift travel using arrow keys is broken 19:48:55 some guy, forgot whom, wrote a library to distinguish between shift-down and 2 on most terminals 19:49:16 <|amethyst> does that include rxvt? 19:49:30 not sure 19:50:03 <|amethyst> because it uses completely different (and broken) escape sequences for those kinds of things 19:51:01 AGES ago I knew about "application mode" switch which works on rxvt, linux console, wterm/aterm, putty, libvte and probably more, but I've since forgotten everything 19:52:33 -!- bmob has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:53:21 bh: if i'm reading this right, being a (favoured) lugonu worshipper on abyss:5 doesn't really make the rune any more likely to spawn than being a non-lugonu worshipper on abyss:5? 19:53:22 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:53:36 <|amethyst> there was someone in #bash (I think) a few years ago who was working on something similar 19:53:38 -!- Kellhus_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:54:06 so there'd be basically no reason to ever go to abyss:5, shouldn't it have the effective chance of spawning as you being on abyss:6? 19:54:30 <|amethyst> const int depth = you.depth + lugonu_favoured; 19:54:46 <|amethyst> oh, "doesn't really" 19:54:47 right, so 51/200 instead of 50/200 19:54:50 <|amethyst> yeah 19:55:13 should certainly stay on abyss:4 where you'd have the 50/200 chance 19:55:43 <|amethyst> what would be a good chance for Abyss:6 ? 19:56:04 MarvinPA: ack. That's definitely an oversight 19:56:24 |amethyst: it gets computed 19:56:40 I think it's an extra 5 per level 19:56:55 <|amethyst> 15, 34, 50, 51 19:56:59 doesn't seem to 19:57:00 yeah 19:57:46 would be neater to use some formula for it i guess? or just come up with an arbitrary abyss:6 chance :P 19:58:09 arbitrary it up :) 20:00:24 <|amethyst> I mean, would 100 be too high? 20:00:39 how good do you want Lucy to be? 20:01:09 it seems fine for it just to be really common, yeah 20:01:27 |amethyst: go for it, they'll still need to *get* the rune from a vault 20:01:29 since you can escape at any time, it's not like the abyss is particularly dangerous to you 20:02:13 <|amethyst> hm, I'd like to use a formula that doesn't need adjusted if we change the depth of abyss 20:04:20 |amethyst: just fit it with a polynomial ;) 20:04:50 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:00 <|amethyst> I was thinking an exponential 20:06:00 <|amethyst> 100**(depth/(branch_depth + 1)) would give 15 -> 10, 34 -> 21, 50 -> 46, 51 -> 100 20:06:12 <|amethyst> that might be too much of a reduction for A:3 and A:4 though 20:08:38 you're supposed to hit the bottom 20:10:44 -!- somethingGreen has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:12:35 "A large abomination manifests with a bang!" -- the abyss is a cruel place :) 20:14:00 <|amethyst> I guess exponential doesn't really scale if we change ABYSSAL_RUNE_MAX_ROLL 20:17:22 it doesn't cause noise 20:20:11 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20:54 <|amethyst> how about 12, 24, 48, 96 ? 20:22:09 <|amethyst> hm... I guess that isn't really any easier to calculate if we have to take branch depth into account 20:24:05 -!- dptr1988 is now known as Guest51374 20:24:05 -!- Guest51374 has quit [Killed (brooks.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 20:24:05 -!- dptr1988_ is now known as dptr1988 20:28:27 -!- Froggeryz has quit [] 20:36:18 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:36:30 hey eronarn did you know that sprint low xl combined with lava orcs = breaking sprint 20:37:30 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:37:35 HangedMan: not a big task in general 20:38:20 well yes 20:38:23 just noting 20:38:28 <|amethyst> hm 20:38:58 <|amethyst> I guess the rune chance formulas will have to be re-done anyway if we remove item generation 20:42:34 -!- jbenedetto has joined ##crawl-dev 20:43:14 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:44:58 <|amethyst> and the lucy thing might not matter much anyway if we remove piety gain in the abyss 20:45:11 beh, we already have all hells without items 20:45:44 and you don't choose to get banished most of the time 20:50:00 I don't think abyss should even have a rune 20:50:07 !abyss st_ 20:50:07 bh casts a spell. st_ is devoured by a tear in reality! 20:50:14 * st_ screams 20:50:58 hopping is going to be a concern regardless of how quickly or uncontrollably it goes 20:51:26 or should we just give the decaying rune instantly to anybody who has done d:27 20:51:48 kilobyte: what does involuntary banishment have anything to do with this 20:52:58 <|amethyst> monqy: no abyss items + involuntary banishment means you should really carry around some extra food once you get to D:8 or so 20:53:27 stashing food is eugh anyway : ) 20:53:34 HangedMan: it's not about being able to wait until it's easy, it's about having the area be simply a plain of horror you never go to voluntarily (except in extreme circumstances) 20:53:44 monqy: getting banished, especially early, puts the character at a significant disadvantage. Some loot at least gives you something in return. 20:54:29 <|amethyst> st_: shouldn't Hell be the plain of horror you never go to voluntarily? 20:54:31 st_: why would it be different from any other nasty area? 20:54:32 <|amethyst> after all, it's hell 20:54:52 why shouldn't it be different? 20:55:23 note it has all kinds of enemies 20:55:26 I liked the sense of getting to explore the weird infinite plain in inception spak testing for what its worth 20:55:30 who are alive 20:55:48 currently 20:56:10 I think of the Abyss as an unordered pile of chunks of random worlds 20:56:33 full of their denizens, and well, items 20:57:06 in fact, food in the Abyss makes sense while in Pan, Crypt or Tomb, not so 20:57:10 I'd like to think of abyss as well-designed gameplay 20:57:27 <|amethyst> kilobyte: would the eldritch world really have armour that fits humans etc? 20:57:35 <|amethyst> s/world/world(s)/ 20:57:39 kilobyte: how about food in abyss but their food is inedible to you and it screams and makes you feel bad 20:58:05 <|amethyst> FR: moth of satiation 20:58:13 |amethyst: because it has live dwarves, tengu, octopodes, and all kind of other beings. Even holies. 20:58:20 how about killing things for their meat gets to everybody and all characters start becoming horribly murderous bastards 20:58:28 -!- archl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58:32 <|amethyst> "start becoming"? 20:58:39 yes that's the joke 20:58:54 I thought dwarves, tengu, and octopodes were shoved into the abyss have some place of testing as actual monsters 20:59:01 as in, a mix of worlds (that most often have demons), rather than a place hostile to all life 20:59:01 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:59:12 unborns do fit I guess but 20:59:14 is that why abyss has water in it 20:59:24 HangedMan: take a look at the monster set, you have pretty much everything 20:59:29 <|amethyst> water is one of the most common compounds in the universe 20:59:34 we don't have to keep everything 20:59:51 have to keep the 5s or what will we complain about 20:59:51 <|amethyst> more common than O2 probably 20:59:55 what does a wraith spawning in the abyss serve as an encounter, pacing, or danger 20:59:58 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:14 monqy: 5s can go, yeah 21:00:48 HangedMan: the wraith will block off an iood from the lich! it's like a grate that cam move around and annoy you 21:01:00 monqy: being not hostile to all life doesn't mean denizens can't be, and that makes weaklings unlikely to survive long enough to meet you 21:01:18 if the 5s are removed some other stuff would have to be pushed up in commonness 21:01:41 <|amethyst> make small aboms the "default" abyss monster 21:01:44 so then the things that are stuck in the abyss that aren't eldritch should be the liches and hellephants and profane servitors, not the fungi and giant spores and jellies 21:01:56 by thus hostility logic 21:01:56 |amethyst: but aboms are eugh too 21:02:25 giant spores can be worthwhile 21:02:37 monqy: why bother now that we have tormenspores? 21:02:49 <|amethyst> why do giant spores spawn anywhere? 21:02:59 <|amethyst> I mean, as opposed to ballistomycetes 21:03:13 fungi and ice beast and sky beast 21:03:33 HangedMan: not everyone is hostile to everyone else. You don't need to be the strongest, just to live enough to avoid those who want to kill you. 21:03:58 fungi do a great job of avoiding those that want to kill them 21:04:10 -!- dptr1988 has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:04:47 Why does (almost) everything in the dungeon want to kill you? 21:04:58 Why are Angels working with Demons to kill you? 21:05:09 HangedMan: who would want to kill them? 21:05:14 thrashing horrors 21:05:23 tentacled starspawn are supposed hungry enough 21:05:24 <|amethyst> bh: they know (somehow) you're after the orb... which doesn't explain why they don't kill Donald 21:06:01 is this a serious line of defense for hyper-rare fungi to spawn in abyss 21:06:38 they're decoration not opposition 21:07:20 giving up then 21:09:48 -!- mivue has quit [Quit: mivue] 21:10:43 We should have abyss trees that are grumpy and sometimes attack you. 21:11:44 <|amethyst> HangedMan: I guess I'm not sure what the problem is with fungi in the abyss, that's not also a problem with fungi everywhere else 21:11:56 examples 21:12:14 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:14 ice beast and wraith would have worked better to argue with 21:13:19 <|amethyst> I think ice beast and sky beast probably should go 21:13:35 <|amethyst> probably wraith too 21:14:03 sole deep dwarves 21:14:17 phantoms, wights 21:14:25 (etc) 21:14:30 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:15:30 tengu, octopodes 21:15:53 <|amethyst> what *should* be in the abyss other than the eldritch things? 21:16:14 <|amethyst> demons, liches, anything else? 21:16:18 I'd say, anything that's not D:1 fare 21:16:25 d:2 fare 21:17:16 and D:2, obviously. D:8, too. You know what I meant. 21:17:31 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 21:17:39 profane servitor, golden eye, death drake, eidolon, angel/daeva/ophan, wizard, air elemental, ugly things, draconians 21:17:46 not quite. what's the cutoff? should there be orcs? should there be black mambas? 21:18:11 catoblepas and basilisk make sense from a gameplay perspective. green rats not so much 21:18:11 unborn, dancing weapon, ballisto, silent spectre, guardian serpent 21:18:14 everything can go 21:18:21 else can 21:18:51 <|amethyst> HangedMan: and how is someone who gets banished on D:8 supposed to survive that? 21:19:36 Abyss:1 is not supposed to be anything close to endgame areas 21:19:39 the same way someone banished in hell is supposed to have a challenge 21:20:13 monqy: you mean, a malign gateway? 21:20:15 <|amethyst> I don't know if you can do both 21:20:25 kilobyte: distortion reaper 21:20:37 maybe somebody banished in hell can have a challenge on abyss:5 21:20:56 <|amethyst> I mean, make it not certain death for early characters while also making it a challenge for endgame characters 21:21:07 <|amethyst> without scaling things accoring to player level, which is a no-no 21:21:15 mon-pick revamp :P 21:21:27 see this is my point 21:21:33 isn't that what abyssal depth is supposed to be for? 21:21:34 the branch is trying to do two things 21:21:36 yeah 21:21:38 it was pretty well agreed that abyss:1 absolutely shouldn't get easier ages back 21:21:50 because it just encourages staying there as long as possible, because it'll be easy to survive indefinitely there 21:21:50 clearly banishment should be an early game threat exclusively 21:22:05 as opposed to current abyss:1, where a character that can survive there indefinitely is already powerful 21:22:11 well, maybe if abyss:1 earlygame meant just push people onto lucy 21:22:17 mega-banishment for endgame chars 21:22:21 non-scaling god wraths 21:22:26 <|amethyst> actually 21:22:49 I still like the idea of the abyss going dark and cold! 21:22:50 <|amethyst> could make banishers send you straight to Abyss:2 or even deeper at some point (based on HD? source depth?) 21:23:12 disto unwielding? 21:23:43 <|amethyst> source depth then 21:24:03 <|amethyst> if you get abyssed from D:8, you go to abyss:1; if you get abyssed from Pan, you go to abyss:3 or so 21:24:08 <|amethyst> or even abyss:5 21:24:19 <|amethyst> I guess it's too easy to escape then 21:24:31 Zot should assuredly send you to Abyss:5 if we want to wander down this track 21:25:58 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:36 <|amethyst> so, any objections to having the abyss rune rolls be 10 at depth 3, 21 at depth 4, 46 at depth 5, 100 at depth 6 ? 21:26:42 -!- Spatiation has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:27:15 sounds fine to me 21:27:16 <|amethyst> currently 15, 34, 50, 51 21:30:43 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:53 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:30:59 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 21:33:56 <|amethyst> hm 21:34:16 <|amethyst> now that I'm looking at it more, is there really a difference between 50 and 100? 21:35:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:29 can you adjust vault dummy weights by abyss depth? 21:37:41 that would be another way to disinguish things 21:38:49 massive support 21:39:53 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:39:58 |amethyst: a different of approximately 50 21:40:30 or 0 21:40:38 *ce 21:40:54 <|amethyst> elliott: which AIUI means each item placed has a 50% chance of resulting in a rune, rather than a 25% chance 21:42:27 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:38 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:04 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:38 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:00:22 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:36 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-1568-g0172bb1: Replace a magic number with piety_breakpoint(). 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0172bb199b34 22:08:36 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-1569-g2dbb020: Tweak abyssal rune chances. 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2dbb0208de09 22:08:36 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-1570-g07a510c: Name a magic number. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=07a510c21431 22:08:36 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-1571-g08a56f5: Tweak low-HP autofight wording (oiseaux; #6302). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=08a56f5773bf 22:08:36 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.11 22:14:26 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:37 -!- Staplefun has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:45 03Zannick 07* 0.12-a0-1572-gab1c68e: Track unique tags while placing subvaults (#6328). 10(2 days ago, 5 files, 40+ 20-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab1c68e40bac 22:21:02 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:38 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:04 -!- GamBiT_ is now known as Guest95796 22:25:37 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:26:26 -!- Guest95796 has quit [Client Quit] 22:29:38 -!- archl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:58 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:42:33 -!- Fear has quit [Client Quit] 22:43:44 -!- Fear has quit [Client Quit] 22:44:18 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:44:43 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:35 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:49:11 -!- ToastyP has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:14 -!- Sombrero_Mott is now known as FaMott 23:01:45 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:04:12 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-1573-g98eede4: Really treat Tomes of Destruction as identified (#6481). 10(23 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 7-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98eede4e9fc2 23:04:12 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.11 23:11:12 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:17:53 -!- Rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 23:24:16 -!- Kalir is now known as Asema 23:24:26 -!- Asema is now known as Kalir 23:27:49 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Client Quit] 23:30:07 -!- Nivim_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:37:03 -!- Nivim_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:39:08 -!- everyonemines has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:42:24 -!- valrus has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:56:23 -!- myp has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:56:42 -!- wHATEver is now known as Guest16845