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11:23:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:24:04 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:54 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 11:37:32 why do people want to rename lava orcs so much 11:38:43 <|amethyst> I think "lava orc" is fine 11:39:19 03galehar 07* 0.12-a0-1427-gf6b946e: Fix a compiler warning. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f6b946e57da6 11:39:21 <|amethyst> though if you made them "lava dwarf" instead... :) 11:40:26 |amethyst: haven't you heard about glacier dwarves? 11:40:41 <|amethyst> Eronarn: anyway, has anyone other than Kyrris mentioned renaming them? 11:40:49 <|amethyst> I may have missed a conversation here 11:40:52 |amethyst: some people last time, i am pretty sure 11:41:35 <|amethyst> Not promising anything, but could you make a merge request 11:41:50 <|amethyst> I'd like to try out the gitorious code review stuff anyway 11:45:42 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:13 gotta make an account, one sec... 11:46:52 <|amethyst> oh, right, yours is on github 11:48:24 -!- sbanwart has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:00 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:49:00 -!- bleak` is now known as bleak 11:49:41 element creature is a pretty common and unoriginal method of creating/naming monsters 11:50:02 welp, google locked me out of gmail 11:50:21 fire bat 11:50:40 st_: counterpoint: lava is not an element 11:52:07 <|amethyst> Eronarn: well, for one thing it needs save compatibility 11:52:28 |amethyst: yes, i am scared of trying to touch that :( 11:54:26 Eronarn: same difference 11:55:20 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:28 <|amethyst> Eronarn: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/lorc-0001-Save-compatibility.patch http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/lorc-0002-Whitespace-fixes.patch 12:00:58 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:30 <|amethyst> Eronarn: My recommendation would be to use git rebase -i to squash the changes to the save format, as well as the save compat patch, into a single commit 12:01:47 !messages 12:01:47 No messages for bh. 12:02:22 <|amethyst> Eronarn: so that when it goes into trunk there are no commits that have broken save compatibility (that makes bisecting a pain) 12:03:21 * bh looks at his feet 12:04:36 <|amethyst> bh: Eronarn is having gmail problems but when those are fixed is going to make a merge request; I figured we could try out the gitorious code review stuff on it 12:05:01 |amethyst: sounds good to me. 12:05:08 <|amethyst> possibly one of the tools you were recommending as well, but if gitorious is acceptible (it likely is not), it would be easier to just use that 12:05:44 I believe rietveld assumes that it gets to be a 'gatekeeper' 12:06:19 <|amethyst> no mandatory code review; we don't have enough committers for that :) 12:06:34 <|amethyst> s/committers/active &/ 12:06:43 I'm fairly sure you can disable that. 12:06:44 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:06:44 -!- bleak` is now known as bleak 12:06:45 |amethyst: i was actually wondering whether to squash the brnach a great deal - lots of extraneous commits there 12:08:37 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:29 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:02 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:11 Eronarn: if there's cruft like "Oops, wrote Carl instead of Sigmund", definitely squash it 12:13:33 bh: probably half of it is that :) 12:13:36 at least 12:13:42 <|amethyst> I think squashing is a good idea 12:14:07 since it covers such a long time range, it actually represents three different versions of lorcs 12:14:26 In principle I'm opposed to rewriting history, but this seems like a good application 12:14:45 <|amethyst> Eronarn: I think that's fine, if all three versions work at the relevant commits 12:15:25 oh, speaking of lava orcs 12:15:27 <|amethyst> Eronarn: but it's always nice to squash bugfixes before they make it into a non-volatile branch 12:15:35 when i tested them the other day their HUD was still broken 12:16:01 with temperature not showing up until something changes it, and i think there was something else but i forget what 12:16:33 i'll compile it again and take a look 12:17:01 <|amethyst> Eronarn: tilecell.h:50:57: error: expected unqualified-id before ‘,’ token 12:17:55 <|amethyst> oh, that's ontoclasm's fault 12:19:45 |amethyst: make sure to waggle your finger at him 12:21:25 <|amethyst> Eronarn: also http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/lorc-0003-Fix-tiles-compilation.patch 12:26:18 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:12 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:29:16 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:30:14 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:31:16 -!- bleak` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:32:39 -!- bleak- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:35:33 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:41:02 hm, so as far as the hud goes, it looks like lava orcs don't handle show_gold_turns at all 12:41:46 and the temperature bar isn't displayed on game load until the screen is redrawn, and EV value seems to never display at all? 12:41:58 no idea how that last one happens but yeah 12:42:37 oh it's EV being displayed as AC, and AC being hidden 12:43:36 hmm, i think i'll have to wait until i get back to MA to do this stuff - only have my netbook 12:43:40 compilation = :( 12:44:06 yeah, and that's a particularly unfun bit of code to be messing with as well :P 12:49:09 i think i know why it happens.... 12:49:30 if so, my question is in all the years dcss has been around why hasn't it been fixed 12:49:37 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:10 monqy: probably you think wrong, it looks like lorcs branch just accidentally prints EV right on top of AC 12:52:12 instead of below it 12:55:00 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:55:23 where can i find the lorcs branch 12:55:38 https://github.com/Eronarn/Crawling-Chaos/tree/lava_orc 12:55:59 (not lorc branch, that one is deprecated) 12:56:28 oh? 12:56:41 what MarvinPA linked is the right one 12:56:46 oh i didn't know there was actually one called "lorc" 12:56:49 i was just being lazy 12:56:55 heh 12:58:54 anyway it looks like even if i'm wrong about the exact reason why the ev display is messed up, i'm still right about dcss not fixing something it should have ages ago!! the positions/logic for printing the AC/EV/etc labels and the numbers is duplicated (i.e. you have it in one place for drawing the labels and in another for the numbers) => ugly and error-prone 12:59:06 !learn add lorc_todo http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/lorc-0001-Save-compatibility.patch 12:59:06 lorc todo[5/5]: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/lorc-0001-Save-compatibility.patch 12:59:14 (which is why i suspected it) 12:59:24 !learn add lorc_todo http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/lorc-0002-Whitespace-fixes.patch 12:59:25 lorc todo[6/6]: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/lorc-0002-Whitespace-fixes.patch 12:59:40 !learn add lorc_todo http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/lorc-0003-Fix-tiles-compilation.patch 12:59:41 lorc todo[7/7]: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/lorc-0003-Fix-tiles-compilation.patch 12:59:48 monqy: yes, that's what i was getting at with "that's a particularly unfun bit of code to be messing with" 12:59:50 !learn add lorc_todo Rebase branch 12:59:51 lorc todo[8/8]: Rebase branch 13:00:01 !learn add lorc_todo Fix temperature/ev/ac display 13:00:02 lorc todo[9/9]: Fix temperature/ev/ac display 13:00:24 ??bad code 13:00:25 I don't have a page labeled bad_code in my learndb. 13:00:32 ??good code 13:00:33 I don't have a page labeled good_code in my learndb. 13:00:56 ?? git 13:00:57 git[1/2]: Readonly: git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git Read/Write: git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl.git Web interface: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git or http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 13:01:03 ??goodcode 13:01:04 goodcode[1/1]: beem.is_beam = false 13:01:14 >.> !learn add bad_code see {git} 13:01:19 .learn add goodcode int loopy = 0; 13:01:41 ?? code 13:01:42 I don't have a page labeled code in my learndb. 13:01:43 MarvinPA: you forgot the comment... 13:01:52 or does dcss not have the comment? more 4.1 reasons 13:02:02 // general purpose looping variable {dlb} 13:02:06 yes <3 13:02:07 Haha 13:02:11 amazing 13:02:14 // just another loop variable {dlb 13:02:15 } 13:02:18 sometimes it's that instead 13:02:37 Was gluggy also dlb's 13:02:59 it doesn't have a {dlb} comment at least 13:03:02 I never figured what 'gluggy' meant in dungeon.cc 13:03:14 from looking at the code it looks like it means gluggy 13:03:31 As in "That potion was really gluggy!" ? 13:03:32 !learn add loopy stands for General Purpose Looping Variable 13:03:33 loopy[1/1]: stands for General Purpose Looping Variable 13:03:39 greensnark: as in the variable gluggy in dungeon.cc 13:03:54 We need a variable called cang 13:04:00 cang cang = cang; 13:04:34 // general purpose cang {dlb} 13:04:44 // general purpose cang {cang} 13:05:11 ??cang 13:05:11 cang[1/2]: cang 13:05:13 ??cang[2] 13:05:14 cang[2/2]: cang 13:05:18 woah 13:05:30 Nobody sees cang[2] coming 13:05:53 -!- stenno__ is now known as stenno 13:05:58 unseen cang 13:05:58 -!- stenno has quit [Changing host] 13:06:00 cang (04Ω) | Spd: c | HD: i | HP: 666 | AC/EV: e/π | Dam: 999 | Res: sanity | XP: ∞ | Int: god | Sz: !!! 13:06:00 %?cang 13:06:22 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:06:39 !learn swap cang[1] cang[2] 13:06:39 Swapped cang[1] with cang[2]. 13:06:49 oh no what have you done 13:06:56 MarvinPA: just looked to see what you meant with prints ev right on top of ac. yes that looks like the problem but technically I'm still right because it's a case of logic duplication resulting in errors!! 13:07:01 He has ruined the cang order 13:07:08 ps someone should rewrite output.cc 13:07:56 elliott: you should get HangedMan concerned with output.cc so you can get him to win some mucks so you rewrite it 13:09:07 monqy: I hear people who make bets like that live to regret it 13:11:21 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:58 -!- kek has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:06 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:06 -!- ToastyP_ is now known as ToastyP 13:28:57 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:37 -!- Dixbert_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:57 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:45 -!- Pikkle has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:45:35 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:51:12 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:01:59 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:05:49 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:03 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:09:48 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:17:13 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:29:26 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:29:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:42:25 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 14:45:02 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:13 -!- ophanim1 is now known as ophanim 14:49:14 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:53:32 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:36 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:02:54 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:39 -!- sepik121 has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 15:08:58 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:15 Eronarn: done squashing? 15:24:47 bh: gonna wait until i have my desktop again 15:24:52 (friday or saturday) 15:29:09 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:31 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:28 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:37:59 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:44:56 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 15:52:58 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:53:54 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 15:56:53 Out of LOS wretched stars can create screen flashes while fighting allies (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6473) by st 16:01:56 st_: Are you sure it wasn't an invisible wretched star? 16:02:17 it happened a number of times 16:02:40 (seperately) 16:03:09 The wretched star flash occurs on mon-abil.cc:2968, before it goes off it checks to see if you're visible to it 16:03:35 (of course the message is totally wrong if it's invisible) 16:04:00 well, flashes from out of los things are all over the place so I'm not surprised it happens with wretched stars too 16:04:04 e.g. eidola 16:05:31 monqy: do you know the difference between LOS_SOLID_SEE and LOS_SOLID? 16:08:44 it's solid, see? 16:08:52 st_: it's only checking to see if you're invisible, not if it can see your square 16:09:43 Zannick: I am incapable of expressing sufficient contempt for you. 16:10:30 bh: i'm sure if you work hard, someday you will. 16:10:48 never give up! 16:12:36 Zannick: I just thought of another way to make players hate me. We should have a monster that obstructs LOS 16:12:46 bh: I've never looked at DCSS los code before so 16:12:53 bh: you mean door mimics? 16:13:01 alt. pale dracs 16:13:02 monqy: :-P something real 16:13:16 door mimics are plenty real!! merfolk aquamancers? smoke demons 16:13:26 squarelos mimic 16:13:34 BlastHardcheese: you'll go far :) 16:13:41 tomb card mimic 16:13:43 wall mimic 16:13:51 tree mimic 16:13:52 boulder beetle 16:13:59 *mangrove mimic 16:14:03 !abyss everyone 16:14:04 bh casts a spell. everyone is devoured by a tear in reality! 16:14:11 tree mimic would just be like a bush with legs... 16:14:19 that you can't fire through 16:14:20 ? 16:14:28 and that you can't walk through with fedhas 16:14:43 it's an abomination unto fedhas 16:14:51 ent? 16:15:02 enoent 16:16:11 bh: this LOS_ stuff seems not to have much documentation :( 16:16:20 monqy: I'm gonna guess. 16:16:33 what if you guess wrong! 16:16:44 I *think* LOS_SOLID_SEE is the most restrictive 16:16:46 I'll test it. 16:17:08 if he guesses wrong he'll have a great idea for april fool's 16:17:25 or break compilation 16:19:27 <|amethyst> LOS_NO_TRANS is the most restrictive 16:19:44 |amethyst: praise be to Xom! 16:20:00 everybody worships xom day was the best 16:20:16 Zannick: that commit should be immortalized 16:20:38 fr: xom randomly converts the player to him 16:21:00 (and when he gets bored, gives you back to the other god) 16:21:12 <|amethyst> err 16:21:17 <|amethyst> actually, I think you're right 16:21:27 xom worship for a turn (thanks xom card!!!) 16:21:38 <|amethyst> SOLID_SEE does appear to be more restrictive than NO_TRANS 16:21:54 maybe someone who knows the los code should document this stuff? : ) 16:22:12 maybe someone should know this stuff? 16:22:48 <|amethyst> losparam.cc is what you want to look at 16:23:13 <|amethyst> opacity_no_trans::operator(), opacity_solid::operator(), opacity_solid_see::operator() 16:23:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:00 <|amethyst> solid treats solid cells (including grates, statues, and open sea) as opaque, everything else as transparent 16:24:35 <|amethyst> solid_see furthermore treats opaque clouds as half-opaque (two of them block LOS), and considers monster opacity (door mimics etc) 16:25:24 so does this mean orefrig goes through fog and door mimics 16:25:29 (but not wretched stars) 16:25:30 er 16:25:37 as in wretched stars' thing doesn't 16:25:51 since it appears to use solid_see, whereas orefrig uses solid 16:26:29 <|amethyst> no_trans treats "opaque" features (non-glass walls, closed doors, and mangroves) as opaque, as well as all walls and all trees; it treats clouds and monsters the same as solid_see. It differs on: grates, statues/idols, open sea/lava sea 16:27:29 <|amethyst> that sounds right 16:27:40 <|amethyst> both are stopped by statues and grates 16:27:43 |amethyst: add that to the docs? :) 16:28:12 I'm glad 4.1 is simpler.......... 16:28:46 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 16:28:53 You should see the wretched star flash on solid and it should hit on solid_see? 16:29:29 kind of weird to see a flash when you can't be affected 16:29:45 weird/unintuitive/misleading 16:30:03 // Doesn't work through glass, but you still see pulses. 16:30:06 shrug 16:30:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:21 how does otr handle the flashy stuff? it has a pretty strong light flavour/it even goes through invisible monsters without affecting them, but probably for gameplay reasons it doesn't go through glass? 16:32:57 hrmph. Zin doesn't remove temporary mutations 16:34:23 \philosoraptor if zin removes only permanent mutations, then does zin remove any mutations? 16:34:57 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:36:16 Zannick: since the player is only temporary? 16:36:42 no, since because zin could remove them, they weren't really permanent 16:38:09 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:38:47 That's like asking if elves ar immortal 16:38:55 Tolkien elves that is 16:39:19 immortal till they get bored. 16:41:47 I think Chei is asleep at the helm 16:41:56 -!- Zifmia_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:42:35 03bh 07* 0.12-a0-1428-gf8090bf: Wretched Star Flahses 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f8090bf0a369 16:42:42 Ageless is better I guess... 16:42:58 Flahses 16:46:00 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:58 -!- monqy has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:55:34 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:00 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:24 <|amethyst> bh: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/los-doc.patch 16:57:50 <|amethyst> bh: I guess a prose comment would be shorter and probably more obvious 16:58:08 |amethyst: that's evil :) 16:58:47 or put T and H definitions on their own lines 17:00:33 -!- Dedagen has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:00:56 <|amethyst> of course, once it's written that way, it makes me want to define these as bitmasks 17:01:12 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:08 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:06:49 -!- Vandal has quit [] 17:07:12 elliptic: did you get the messages i sent in the /q yesterday? 17:07:18 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:11:51 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:54 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:16 -!- Pikkle has quit [Client Quit] 17:17:38 can we allow CK to choose falchion? 17:17:47 i suppose they don't get trident, so maybe not 17:18:22 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:18:48 +2 falchion on D:1 sounds a bit... excessive 17:18:54 yeah, i guess it does 17:19:14 ??falchion 17:19:14 falchion[1/1]: One handed long blade, Dam: 8, Acc +2, Delay 13 17:19:15 ??mace 17:19:16 mace[1/1]: A long handle with a heavy lump on the end. (one-handed mace; Dmg 8 Acc +3 Delay 14) 17:19:29 only a .1 difference, really 17:19:37 the mace is more accurate even 17:19:54 ??trident 17:19:54 trident[1/1]: A shafted weapon with three points at one end. (Hand-and-a-half medium Polearm; Dam 9 Acc +3 Delay 13) 17:20:00 that would be excessive 17:20:08 i think 17:20:18 i think offering falchion is fair though 17:20:19 well the mace is pretty high-delay on D:1 17:20:31 it is only 10% slower base 17:20:43 it is .05 aut slower 17:20:49 that is virtually nothing 17:21:00 maybe my math is wrong 17:21:13 nope 17:21:35 they are essentially identical items, with the falchion offering a better upgrade path 17:21:40 for one handers 17:22:12 a falchion just seems better because it's not super common until ~D:5 17:27:48 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:27:50 sometimes i hate git's cli interface 17:27:58 i just want to search the repo :( 17:28:08 i'll make a git alias 17:29:18 git grep ? 17:29:27 grep ? 17:29:37 yes, i was confusing it with one of the other 85000 options for the git log command 17:29:46 whoops 17:29:49 hehe 17:29:52 i figured it out 17:30:17 i was trying -i, but that is not --grep :P 17:31:15 Zannick: i also lied about what i wanted to search, i wanted to search the log, haha 17:31:22 sorry 17:31:29 i see 17:31:41 i usually use less's builtin / command 17:32:02 if you're searching for committers and commit messages 17:32:08 otherwise idk 17:33:15 Zannick: oh duh 17:33:22 i usually use the less / command too 17:33:30 i am just being silly today i guess 17:34:07 elliott: i just thought of one more advantage of a falchion: .6 min delay vs .7 for a mace 17:34:29 typically if i start with a falchion, i am using a scimitar or lang blade by the point i am reaching min delay, but 17:34:58 .6 v .7 means you attack 8 times vs 7 times in 5 turns 17:35:52 i'm glad i can cargo-cult program c++ by replicating other commmits :) 17:37:17 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:39:33 Malfegor (L27 DsFi) ERROR: range check error (35 / 35) (D:12) 17:46:09 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 17:55:54 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:09 |amethyst: if you were an incorporeal monster (you could walk through all non-perma rock walls but didn't have wallswimming) what would your shtick/stats be? 18:03:25 I'm not |amethyst but as an incorporeal monster that can walk through all non-perma rock walls I can say that my schtick is walking through all non-perma-rock walls 18:04:31 tartarus ghost of some sort 18:04:51 monqy: that's a good shtick 18:05:01 HangedMan: I admit I've never made it to Tartarus 18:05:04 what sort of walking is this if it's not swimming btw 18:05:12 -!- clemux has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:43 monqy: %s/swimming/shielding 18:05:56 ah 18:06:44 monqy: wow you're an incorporeal monster that can walk through all non-perma rock walls too? 18:06:50 what a coinc 18:07:07 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:07:08 but he's not |amethyst. 18:07:14 oh 18:07:15 well I am 18:08:56 bh: in a sense it's sort of like a faster but weaker boring beetle--it's like a boring beetle in that walls won't protect you from it getting up next to you (so it can surround you even in corridors & so on) but weaker in that it won't dig out the walls for other monsters to come in 18:09:39 monqy: boring beetles also give you an escape 18:10:13 make it come in bands so that while you're in corridors you'll be safe but aware of how the second you leave the friendly terrain you're swarmed 18:10:13 so to take advantage of it's schtick i think it'd best be something that you don't want to have ruining up your corridor fights or sneaking up on you 18:10:22 that also works 18:10:30 <|amethyst> bh: my schtick would be always (or at least more easily than other monsters) knowing the player's location 18:10:51 <|amethyst> and bands :) 18:10:52 tome has a monster like that 18:11:06 it also is permanently invisible, confuses, dispels, and summons 18:11:17 |amethyst: sgtm. I imagine being in the underworld and hands are reaching out of the walls trying to grab you 18:11:23 (it summons more permanently invisible, confusing wall walk through monsters) 18:11:34 <|amethyst> bh: and if they do they drag you back to the top of the branch? 18:11:46 <|amethyst> (Legend of Zelda) 18:12:00 never played it 18:12:06 always knowing the player's location goes well with anything that can go through walls in some way, but i'll admit i'm particularly fond of its application to things that can dig to you 18:12:20 maybe it's best for something that just seeks you out though.... 18:12:25 (and doesn't let everything else in) 18:12:31 <|amethyst> bh: it's kind of a realtime roguelike with much less randomization 18:12:47 |amethyst: like Quake 3? 18:13:05 <|amethyst> bh: the LoZ dungeons are a rip-off of Binding of Isaac 18:13:38 |amethyst: a real shame that World of Goo knocked off Minecraft 18:13:59 zelda is a total ripoff of halo 18:14:10 guy in green goes around killing armies by himself 18:14:48 how does zelda take the gun off his arm? 18:14:51 <|amethyst> anyway, I bring it up because there is a hand-coming-through-the-wall monster in the Zelda dungeons that takes you back to the dungeon entrance 18:15:13 don't they come from the ceiling, actually? 18:15:17 or the floor 18:15:18 yes 18:15:21 <|amethyst> ah, right 18:15:41 there's two varieties 18:15:48 one that comes down from the ceiling that drags you back 18:15:52 the other just fights you on the ground 18:16:07 Error calling monster-trunk: 18:16:07 <|amethyst> %??wretched star 18:16:13 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:16:19 <|amethyst> aw, bh's patch didn't magically fix that too 18:16:25 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.12-a0-1428-gf8090bf 18:16:25 <|amethyst> %??-version 18:16:37 |amethyst: I was thinking something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwrmILnrzbk 18:18:37 Add Falchion to Chaos Knight initial weapon selection. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6474) by pivotal 18:20:52 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:23:21 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:24:12 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:25:51 |amethyst: youa round? 18:26:03 <|amethyst> faze: what's up? 18:26:14 can you delete the 'alter_base_damage' patch from https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6474 18:26:29 i have a revised one which correctly changes the base damage of BLESSED_FALCHION as well 18:26:48 and if you're feeling particularly generous, commit the normal version :P 18:27:39 that patch makes no sense to me, why change CK and not DK/Wr/Be? 18:28:02 well, i could do those too, i was just unsure how radically weapon selection should change 18:28:11 <|amethyst> faze: deleted 18:28:18 i spelled out my reasons in the mantis issue 18:28:21 |amethyst: thanks 18:28:38 i will go back and change all of them to be identical if that's what is wanted 18:29:19 personally I like long blades being unavailable at start... but if what people are interested in is Be getting long blades, I don't see any reason to test it with just CK 18:29:44 does anyone object to me taking a crack at completely redoing the one handed maces and flails? 18:29:53 here is what a scimitar is for one handed m&f users: 18:29:56 ??spiked flail 18:29:56 spiked flail[1/1]: 12, -2, 160%. The best common 1-handed mace, but still rather worse than a broad axe. 18:30:02 in other words, a shit weapon 18:30:04 the reason why I don't like long blades being available at start isn't that they are too strong btw, it is that long blades are quite rare early game 18:30:10 ah 18:30:24 sure, a proposal to change M&F stats (and/or remove a couple) would be cool 18:30:27 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:30:30 well, change spiked flail to be 12/-2/140 and delete about 3 of the other maces, and long blades are unnecessary 18:30:43 for now, can we try out falchions on CK without a base damage adjustment? 18:30:48 ??scimitar 18:30:49 scimitar[1/1]: A long sword with a curved blade. One-handed Long Blade; Dam 12 Acc -2 Delay 140. 18:31:03 elliptic: i will do that instead, then we can preserve the long blade rarity 18:31:12 faze: one can butcher and one can chop off hydra heads 18:31:16 just saying 18:31:17 it is neat to have one weapon type, but it sucks having a poor upgrade path for one hnaders 18:31:35 if you want one handers, you pick a short blade and then throw it away when you find the first falchion 18:31:43 it just seems silly to force people to game the system like that 18:31:46 demon whips are pretty good weapons imo 18:31:46 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:31:56 a demon whip is not d:8 floor trash 18:32:00 a scimitar is 18:32:10 i usually have one prior to entering lair 18:32:13 almost every time 18:32:18 you cannot say that about demon whips 18:32:35 i do not start my games with plans on finding demon 18:32:46 sure, or you could use a branded whip or all sorts of things 18:32:50 buffing/removing the common 1-handed maces sounds good to me 18:32:56 yes, a branded whip.. 18:32:57 ??whip 18:32:58 whip[1/1]: Dam:6, Acc:+2, Delay:11 18:33:08 a flaming whip will sure slay those elepahnts 18:33:19 <|amethyst> btw, re weapon moves for long blades, what about "first attack immediately after a move takes half the normal time"? 18:33:40 ??dire flail 18:33:41 dire flail[1/1]: A flail with spiked lumps on both ends. 13 damage, -3 accuracy, 130 speed, two-handed. 18:33:51 that sounds kinda gimmicky? 18:34:17 are scythes and hammers OBJ_WEAPON 18:34:22 I'm also not really that strongly opposed to more people starting with the option of long blades, though I do sort of like the short blade -> long blade crosstraining and don't see how it is "gaming the system" 18:34:42 elliptic: i suppose it isn't really gaming the system, since crosstraining is built in, yes :) 18:35:12 <|amethyst> ZChris13: what about "attacks against a monster that moved next turn cost half"? 18:35:14 i will look into cleaning up one-handed maces 18:35:18 |amethyst: it sounds a little hard to notice 18:35:30 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:35 <|amethyst> s/next turn/last turn/ 18:35:36 <|amethyst> hm 18:35:38 "that moved next turn" seems tricky 18:35:39 efb 18:36:08 probably only one of flail/morningstar/spiked flail needs to exist, i brought this up a while ago but it was shot down iirc, would have to check the logs 18:36:26 ankuses were removed back then and hammers made into a yiuf-only thing 18:36:46 |amethyst: also that would make the correct strategy against a single melee-only speed 10 enemy be to alternate stepping back and hitting 18:36:51 which sounds tedious 18:37:02 instead of mashing tab 18:37:09 <|amethyst> teach tab to do that :P 18:37:12 :P 18:37:16 :p 18:37:39 MarvinPA: thanks for the info 18:37:58 at the very least one of flail/morningstar can be removed 18:38:03 indeed 18:38:23 how about adjusting spiked flail to 12/-2/150 or 12/-3/140 18:38:29 morningstar enables the eveningstar silliness so maybe remove flail 18:38:36 right 18:38:49 <|amethyst> then what about "spiked flail"? 18:38:57 could be renamed to flail 18:39:00 true 18:39:12 and then interchanged with morningstar if we want morningstar > flail still 18:39:28 ??maces and flails 18:39:29 maces and flails[1/2]: acc,dam,delay[hands]: whip 2,6,11; club 3,5,13; hammer 3,7,13; mace 3,8,14; flail 2,9,15; morningstar -1,10,15; demon whip 1,12,11; holy scourge 0,13,11; s. flail -2,12,16; eveningstar -1,14,15; dire flail -3,13,13[2]; g. mace -4,18,17[2]; g. club -6,20,17[2.5]; g. s. club -7,22,18[2.5] 18:39:37 should the new top-tier common one-hander be different than scimitar stat-wise? 18:40:00 ??long blade 18:40:01 I don't have a page labeled long_blade in my learndb. 18:40:06 if we view club/hammer as not really existing, and we remove one of flail/morningstar/spiked flail then I think things will be okay 18:40:07 ??long sword 18:40:07 long sword[1/1]: One-handed long blade (Dam: 10, Acc: +1, Delay: 14) 18:40:11 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:40:28 <|amethyst> ??long blades 18:40:28 long blades[1/1]: acc,dam,delay[hands]: falchion 2,8,13; long sword 1,10,14; scimitar -2,12,14; demon blade -1,13,13; double sword -1,15,15[1.5]; great sword -3,16,16[2]; triple sword -4,19,19[2] 18:40:30 -!- rkd has quit [] 18:40:31 how about 18:40:32 scimitar could maybe be buffed a little bit, btw 18:40:36 true 18:40:38 <|amethyst> ??maces and flails 18:40:39 maces and flails[1/2]: acc,dam,delay[hands]: whip 2,6,11; club 3,5,13; hammer 3,7,13; mace 3,8,14; flail 2,9,15; morningstar -1,10,15; demon whip 1,12,11; holy scourge 0,13,11; s. flail -2,12,16; eveningstar -1,14,15; dire flail -3,13,13[2]; g. mace -4,18,17[2]; g. club -6,20,17[2.5]; g. s. club -7,22,18[2.5] 18:40:42 ??demon blade 18:40:42 demon blade[1/2]: A terrible weapon, forged in the fires of Hell. (single-handed Long Blade, Dmg 13, Acc -1, Delay 13) 18:40:50 give scimitar -1 or 0 acc? 18:40:51 I have not been impressed by it the last few times I've used one 18:40:53 or 120 delay? 18:41:00 er, 120 delay wouldn't be good 18:41:37 scimitar having -1 accuracy seems reasonable to me, yes 18:42:07 mace 3/8/14, flail 0/10/140, morningstar -1/12/140? 18:42:21 or morningstar could be -2/12/140 18:42:27 I think morningstar should be -2, yes 18:42:30 ok 18:42:50 <|amethyst> shouldn't there be something at 15? 18:42:56 <|amethyst> 150 delay that is 18:43:01 or maybe morningstar could be -2/13/150 18:43:21 if i change the base types in itemprop.cc, do i need to change fixedart or randart stats, or do they use the base types from itemprop.cc 18:43:27 elliptic: that sounds good 18:43:55 they use the base types unless they are doing something weird like the cutlass or katana 18:44:00 ok, good 18:44:10 i'll double check and look what "Eos" is 18:44:14 ??eos 18:44:15 eos[1/1]: +11,+11 encrusted unrandart morningstar, {elec, -TELE rElec SInv} 18:44:22 it's just a morningstar 18:44:23 never mind 18:44:29 what 18:44:33 I guess this is an eos buff 18:44:33 excuse me 18:44:33 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ben weg] 18:44:45 hehe, indeed 18:44:46 <|amethyst> no fixedarts are of any of the "flail" types 18:44:50 ok, cool 18:44:57 <|amethyst> we could just remove flails altogether 18:44:59 <|amethyst> like doors 18:45:07 removing flails altogether is sort of tempting, yes 18:45:12 need a new name then 18:45:15 <|amethyst> Maces 18:45:15 for one weapon 18:45:18 hmm 18:45:21 <|amethyst> hm 18:45:26 Maces and Clubs 18:45:28 spiked mace would be the boring choice 18:45:46 war hammer 18:45:53 st_: i like it 18:46:02 friendly mace 18:46:02 war hammer and remove normal hammers? 18:46:04 ?? hammer 18:46:05 hammer[1/2]: Hammer, Damage Rating: 7, Accuracy Rating: +3, Base Attack Delay: 130% 18:46:08 just rename it to hammer 18:46:10 stealth hammer buff 18:46:12 war hammer sounds like a big ol two-hander 18:46:24 <|amethyst> elliptic: but yiuf 18:46:24 this would be the new dire flail name? 18:46:25 it is a great name 18:46:27 yiuf can have war hammer(s) in his hut, right 18:46:32 MarvinPA: i like the way you think 18:46:41 yiuf hits you with a war hammer. ow. 18:46:44 you're dead. 18:47:04 yiuf is crazy enough to do DIY with war hammers I'm sure 18:47:08 hehe 18:47:38 the picture on wikipedia has a war hammer being used one-handed 18:47:57 flail -> scepter? 18:47:59 ah ok 18:48:07 (I know nothing about war hammers) 18:48:14 haha 18:48:15 how about double mace 18:48:16 we could make it a hand and half weapon 18:48:26 it could be the double sword of the maces 18:48:33 <|amethyst> Could use "maul" as one 18:48:35 what he said 18:48:40 if we use "war hammer", make sure no one tells games-workshop 18:48:50 <|amethyst> call it the "battle hammer" 18:49:03 they are hellbent on legal action to preserve their trademark, and yes, i know "warhammer" != "war hammer" 18:49:03 warhammer is legit 18:49:18 we should remove maces and flails and add in hammer skill 18:49:19 elliptic: is giving out spiked flails with yiuf a good idea 18:49:38 is yiuf a good idea 18:49:39 elliott: no worse than giving out elec whip with pikel 18:49:44 |amethyst: i like maul for the mid-tier one-hander 18:49:45 wait, which one is games workshop's? 18:49:50 and war hammer for dire flail 18:49:50 elliptic: well you don't have to fight yiuf to nab one of the hammers 18:49:55 Zannick: "warhammer" 18:50:01 i know "warhammer" was used in magic way back in mirrodin 18:50:18 that was like, 2002 and i haven't heard wizards of the coast getting sued for it 18:50:21 and they're still using it 18:50:28 games workshop litigation 18:50:29 err 18:50:34 search google for that 18:50:39 mauls are most definitely not a one hander 18:50:45 usually there's only one and it's behind him 18:51:04 but generating a ton of them does sound iffy 18:51:46 <|amethyst> yeah, I think 2h "maul" and 1h "war hammer" would be better 18:51:53 sounds good 18:52:06 anyway being able to rename "maces and flails" to "maces" sounds good to me, aside from that I don't really care what anything is called 18:52:12 maces and whips 18:52:13 so flail->war hammer, dire flail-> maul 18:52:21 MarvinPA: you had to go and ruin it :P 18:52:26 go it 18:52:30 <|amethyst> FR: sacks full of rocks 18:52:34 faze: this doesn't say anything about usage of the word "warhammer" 18:52:39 <|amethyst> and a killer klown named Homey 18:52:39 ok 18:52:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:52:54 i'm sure "war hammer" is a generic enough name 18:53:05 MarvinPA: that's true, whips are a problem 18:53:08 and i am certainly not finding any litigation against wotc for their card 18:53:09 there are no futuristic space marines and such in crawl .. (yet) 18:53:15 Zannick: that's good. 18:53:21 IANAL, i just err on the side of caution 18:53:52 i think they sued people who actually sold stuff 18:54:11 ah ok 18:55:09 elliptic: is buffing eveningstar to 15, -1, 15 too much? 18:55:46 if morningstar is 13, -2, 150, eveningstar is only +1, +1 for a "special" base type 18:56:24 are we removing hammers and leaving in 1h war hammers? 18:57:26 making eveningstar equal to double swords sounds okay to me 18:57:30 cool 18:57:31 since neither of them exists really 18:57:32 ??double sword 18:57:33 double sword[1/2]: A magical weapon with two razor-sharp blades. (hand-and-a-half Long Blade; Dam 15, Acc -1, Delay 15). The highest base damage weapon in the game that you can wield with a shield, minimally better than demon blade. (No shield if you're a small race.) 18:57:34 yeah 18:57:58 should i buff maul to make up for no mid-tier two-hander? 18:58:01 ??great sword 18:58:02 great sword[1/2]: A sword with a very long, heavy blade and a long handle. (two-handed Long Blade; Dam 16 Acc -3 Delay 16) 18:58:06 which one is maul 18:58:12 dire flail doesn't need a buff 18:58:12 old dire flail 18:58:13 dire flail is fine 18:58:17 k, sounds good 18:58:24 i suppose it's a short path to great mace 18:58:33 dire flails are actually pretty good 18:58:38 yes 18:59:22 is stocking yiuf's hut with 20 base dmg 10 "war hammers" too extreme? 19:00:07 <|amethyst> maybe ensure they're not enchanted, or you only get one if it's enchanted? 19:00:10 hammer is 7, 3, 13 and "war hammer" is 10, 0, 14 19:00:18 it doesn't sound extreme to me 19:00:21 |amethyst: that sounds like something up someone else's alley :P 19:00:23 elliptic: same 19:01:17 still think these should be called hammers 19:01:21 to confuse the hell out of everyone primarily 19:01:23 just "hammer"? 19:01:25 <|amethyst> and now if we do add another dwarf race we'll have to make them Maces- instead of Axes-focused, which means they'll be distinct from orcs 19:01:28 but also to make the biggest weapon buff ever 19:01:37 elliott: haha 19:01:44 <|amethyst> maybe make a Yiuf's hammer randart? 19:01:47 also because hammers are more yiufy than war hammers! 19:01:50 'war hammer plus:0 plus2:0 ego:none' if you want that 19:02:30 i have the weapon_def done, just need to grep and see what i need to find and replace 19:02:33 <|amethyst> s/randart/unrand/ 19:02:59 |amethyst: a duplicate unrand? 19:03:17 <|amethyst> one of those and the rest war hammers, I dunno 19:07:37 %git 19:07:37 03bh * 0.12-a0-1428-gf8090bf: Wretched Star Flahses 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f8090bf0a369 19:07:49 someone should git commit --amend the commit message 19:07:56 "Flahses" 19:08:26 faze: rebasing a public branch is not the best idea 19:08:28 <|amethyst> no destructive changes to public branches unless they're absolutely necessary 19:08:31 ah 19:08:43 i thought you could amend the tip without messing anything up? 19:08:49 or is that only locally 19:08:55 (it's a flaw of git that fixing typos like that is tied to rewriting history IMO) 19:08:55 <|amethyst> it means everyone who pulled the branch before amending must update with --force 19:09:02 |amethyst: ahhh ok 19:09:06 <|amethyst> faze: only if you haven't shared it 19:09:09 gotcha 19:09:15 welp 19:09:42 better just rewrite the dictionary 19:09:45 haha 19:10:11 it sounds easier than destructively altering a public remote git master 19:10:54 so, the "best pratice" if you absolutely needed every word spelled correctly would be .. revert the commit, and reapply the same commit with a different commit message? 19:11:12 it would be: 19:11:12 we could just remove the hammers from yiuf anyway. clearly nothing is sacred. we even got rid of "Are you sure you want to win?" 19:11:12 don't 19:11:15 elliott: haha 19:11:16 <|amethyst> faze: the bad message would still be in the history 19:11:39 |amethyst: true, just at HEAD~2, assuming the new HEAD is the new old commit.. 19:11:44 <|amethyst> faze: best you can do is an empty commit with the fixed message, or to use some out-of-band errata mechanism 19:11:45 weird. 19:11:47 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 19:11:48 ah 19:12:48 st_: remove yiuf from the cottage 19:12:53 he moved out & took his hammers 19:13:27 just remove the hammers and give yiuf new speech accusing you of stealing his hammers 19:13:47 get rid of "With the way you've been playing I'm surprised you've made it this far" too 19:14:12 noo! 19:14:17 no I'm not bitter!! 19:14:20 hehe 19:14:40 st_: i have actually pressed "n" when it asked me if i wanted to win 19:14:51 so i could leave the dungeon unscathed by mutations 19:14:52 re-fr: are you sure you want to win 19:15:11 bug report; severity: major; title: game no longer asks whether you want to win 19:15:23 pff, you mean Block 19:15:44 'players coming from other popular roguelikes are likely to be confused when the game suddenly ends when traveling up the stairs on D:1' 19:16:00 i guess we will need item descs for WPN_WAR_HAMMER and WPN_MAUL 19:16:15 seriously though it's more consistent from a UI perspective, amuses newbies and old players alike, and is a quick remidner that you might have forgotten something, it should really still be a thing :( 19:16:19 st_: next you'll be requesting removal of one_chance_in(20) ? " (and be thought a fool)" : "" 19:16:32 maul -> "A big ass hammer forged in the fires of HELL" 19:16:45 <|amethyst> a big ass-hammer? 19:16:54 isn't that what a maul is 19:17:02 kilobyte: 19:17:11 okay i have a compromise proposal 19:17:11 a large handle with a big piece of metal that looks like a hammer head on top? 19:17:19 Are you sure you want to win by shouting a lot? 19:17:20 Y - Yes. 19:17:25 N - No, stay silent (and be thought a fool) 19:17:27 > N 19:17:29 Okely-dokely. 19:17:36 http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Deldrimor_Maul.jpg 19:17:52 |amethyst: haha never mind 19:17:59 you were only correcting my grammar :P 19:18:19 big-ass hammer is what i meant 19:18:30 <|amethyst> faze: I was also making an xkcd reference 19:18:47 -!- TLK_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:18:55 oh, link to relevant xkcd requested 19:18:58 <|amethyst> http://xkcd.com/37/ 19:19:28 i wonder if this is any better: http://goatkcd.com/37/ <-- NSFW, it's the goatse man 19:20:51 again, don't follow the goatkcd link unless you are prepared to see something absolutely disgusting 19:21:17 i like the regular xkcd version better anyways :) 19:23:54 i'm not sure why you would even link that but okay 19:25:25 he's one of those types 19:25:46 yes, i probably am. i apologize. 19:28:12 should i change the names of the tiles for the weapons that are changing? 19:28:38 there are lots of hits in source/rltiles for "WPN_FLAIL" 19:29:23 <|amethyst> you should at least change those and update dc-item.txt 19:29:31 <|amethyst> but really there probably needs to be new art 19:29:37 |amethyst: indeed 19:29:58 i suppose a flail looks nothing like a war hammer 19:30:24 maybe a dire flail looks like a maul? 19:30:28 <|amethyst> ontoclasm is the person to talk to about that, or another dev can post an implementable 19:30:42 a dire flail is just some d&d thing 19:31:02 !seen ontoclasm 19:31:03 I last saw ontoclasm at Fri Dec 14 00:36:01 2012 UTC (1w 6d 55m 2s ago) joining the channel. 19:31:06 bah 19:31:08 hm 19:31:10 well, 19:31:11 so what is a maul 19:31:25 <|amethyst> elliott: a big hammer 19:31:27 a two-handed sledgehammer, essentially 19:31:35 well I meant what is being called a maul 19:31:38 oh 19:31:42 dire flail 19:31:43 I don't like the name much so it better be a weapon I dislike :P 19:31:47 haha 19:31:55 i think most people don't like dire flails :P 19:31:56 hmm, crate's problem then 19:32:00 maybe it's just minmay 19:32:00 crate loves dire flails! 19:32:08 maybe crate likes the name too 19:32:17 minmay just hates them loudly, nobody else cares as far as i know 19:32:29 indeed 19:33:40 I don't care about dire flails, but "dire flail" is a kind of dumb name 19:33:41 MarvinPA: Xom is a lot more fun now by the way, much less annoying acts 19:33:57 nice 19:35:41 dire flail is a d&d created name too 19:36:50 ah yes 19:37:32 -!- Nexos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:37:55 st_: did xom confuse you much in that game? & if so how was it..my experience with it is it's often unpreventable unavoidable death (modulo curing potions) but I don't trust myself at judging these things so I'd like a second opinion 19:38:54 -!- geekosaur has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:33 I got confused a fair amount, in the midgame I would have died without getting lucky with distortion, later I still got confused a lot but you have more options then. Mu^Xom is sort of a special case though so 19:40:25 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:40:32 I did wear clarity almost always after I found it, for whatever it was worth 19:40:44 how about "midnightstar" instead of maul 19:40:47 for dire flail name 19:41:01 a lot of the time he also confuses monsters too, so you can sometimes just stumble away 19:42:07 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:53 one thing I think he could do more is give you big summons, getting a dragon early encourages you to try and make the most out of it which is fun, and later it may actually be useful compared to a hound/common demon 19:43:56 i would like to know what to name dire flails before i rename a bunch of files and sed a bunch of other files 19:44:27 faze: how about renaming them to "dire flails" and changing them later if necessary 19:44:39 i think not renaming a ton of stuff seems simplest also, yes 19:44:42 faze: bec de corbin 19:45:07 faze: midnightstar 19:45:24 just removing flails or whichever it was and adjusting stats seems plenty productive 19:45:31 anyway i don't see what's wrong with just letting stuff be called "flails" 19:45:38 you can remove the "& Flails" from the skill even 19:45:40 not like anyone will be confused 19:47:49 MarvinPA: so leaving TILE_WPN_FLAIL as the tiledef for WPN_WAR_HAMMER? 19:47:50 bec de corbin would be kind of weird since it muddies the thing where there aren't any pole weapons in m&f 19:47:59 smashy things 19:48:07 right, i looked at bec de corbins and they seemed more like a polearm 19:48:15 huh? i mean like, not renaming any weapons at all 19:48:19 oh 19:48:26 well that's an option too, yes :) 19:48:45 much easier too, it would mean i am already done, i just need to go back in time a bit 19:53:55 ??mace 19:53:56 mace[1/1]: A long handle with a heavy lump on the end. (one-handed mace; Dmg 8 Acc +3 Delay 14) 19:54:36 -!- Helsbecter has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:40 is there a list of the names of all the tiles somewhere? I'm having a hard time finding it if it does 19:58:15 <|amethyst> Helsbecter: rltiles/dc-*.txt 20:01:12 -!- dptr1988 has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:02:39 thanks 20:02:40 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:05 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:27 -!- Dixbert_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:45 <|amethyst> Helsbecter: after you build, there's also rltiles/*.h if you want the full name of the TILE* enum 20:13:53 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:14:47 -!- clemux has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:14 randart books aren't too interesting in general but it'd be nice if they had the white text of other randarts instead of very slightly rewarding those who know which prefixes are for randarts and which aren't 20:18:58 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:53 |amethyst: can i upload a patch consisting of more than one commit? 20:25:00 or should i rebase them into one 20:25:19 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:46 i am removing spiked flails, and then applying the maces and flails stat changes 20:25:52 should i keep those separate 20:26:48 also, should i delete the tiles related to spiked flails in the rltiles folder? 20:26:56 or should i let someone else worry about that 20:27:22 i removed all the other references from the code 20:27:27 to spiked flails 20:27:46 move them to /unused i guess 20:29:45 should make some unrands into flails 20:29:55 also, add flail snails 20:30:04 MarvinPA: ah, thanks 20:31:10 Eronarn: bit hard to do that while removing flails 20:31:32 i am not renaming anything right now, just changing the stats 20:31:38 WPN_FLAIL is still a valid base type 20:32:15 What type of item? spiked flail 20:32:16 _No such item. 20:32:20 well, that's good 20:32:44 elliott: i mean the same way it worked for katanas 20:32:49 just a rename 20:34:14 faze: have fun with save compatibility :P 20:35:07 right, will removing spiked flails break save compatibility? 20:35:15 well, i can test that.. 20:35:16 the spiked flail of Asmodeus 20:35:27 the dire flail of Dispater 20:35:38 my character "butt" loaded up just fine 20:36:28 faze: well did your character butt have a spiked flail 20:36:42 let's just make asmo's a ruby rod already 20:36:49 if there are enum entries and code relating to spiked flails you'll want to stub it out with an #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION 20:36:53 good point, i need to actually test it 20:36:57 ah, thanks 20:37:00 and convert existing spiked flails on load 20:37:04 yes, there are 20:37:07 (again guarded by an #if) 20:37:15 <|amethyst> faze: remember to check stuff in dat/ (lua and .des particularly) 20:37:17 well, you don't have to convert them on load 20:37:21 |amethyst: ok 20:37:23 if you keep the code and guard it 20:37:29 is there a commit which removes items that i could look at? 20:37:36 katana 20:37:38 i like to cargo cult program c++ 20:37:41 Eronarn: thanks 20:41:35 so, it's ok if i make edmund never generate with a spiked flail? 20:41:43 and norris 20:42:10 but any code that will get touched and look for the WPN_SPIKED_FLAIL object needs to be guarded? 20:42:32 i thought spiked flail or something with spiked flail stats was staying 20:42:41 morningstar is getting a big buff 20:43:18 spiked morningflail 20:43:25 presumably spiked flail would be replaced with that whereever applicable then 20:43:36 so if i understand this right, i can remove spiked flails from edmunds possible weapon pool, but spiked flail code in shopping.cc should be guarded with #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 20:44:01 MarvinPA: well, then what happens all the other morningstar stuff? 20:44:02 <|amethyst> yes, because shops with spiked flails might exist 20:44:18 for instance, some monsters can spawn wiht a morningstar or spiked flail 20:44:40 well then obviously that's not a "wherever applicable" case :P 20:44:40 <|amethyst> that or you replace the subtype in unmarshallItem 20:44:51 true 20:45:15 i understand what needs to be guarded now. 20:45:19 thanks guys 20:45:45 i just put the finishing touches on my patch too.. 20:58:27 -!- Dedagen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:05 -!- wheals has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:58 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:25 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:07:16 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:30 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:13:21 -!- bleak` has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:17:27 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:41 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 21:17:55 aside: I think that recaptcha has just strayed into advertisement. I was asked to type the phone number of a saab dealership. 21:19:39 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:20:46 -!- Pikkle has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:27:02 -!- mivue has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:29:12 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:35:33 -!- lexackson has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:39 does anyone object to CK's being able to start with long blades? 21:35:53 And if CK's, how about AK's? 21:39:49 -!- chiefwonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:39:54 i am in favor of everyone being able to start with long blades because long blades are awesome 21:40:36 Eronarn: k. Wizards will start with fire storm because it's awesome 21:40:42 And it'll cost 0MP because that's awesome. 21:41:13 bh: i think one handed maces are going to be changed first 21:41:30 faze: hm? How are they changing? 21:42:22 remove spiked flail, bump flail stats to 10/0/15, bump morningstar to 13/-2/15, eveningstar to 15/-1/15 21:42:49 wait, flail is 10/0/14, my mistake 21:45:12 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:48:51 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:44 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:56:29 are maces getting a shtick? 21:56:57 I agree with faze 21:57:02 actually 21:57:25 copy brogue and make maces do ~2x damage but take 2x as long >:] 21:58:12 make maces stun on high damage attacks 22:00:26 Pacra: That's awful though. I'd rather have two chances to hit at 1x damage. 22:02:52 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 22:03:16 Clearly using a mace to hit a monster with eyes will blind and confuse them 22:04:27 Zannick: You wouldn't like me when I'm mad. 22:04:37 if anything, it would be monsters with brains 22:05:02 hammers should be extra effective against nail golems 22:05:58 <|amethyst> You stub the toenail golem! 22:06:11 ow! 22:07:05 there should be an unrandart hammer that makes every monster look like a toenail golem 22:07:19 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1428-gf8090bf 22:07:33 or just straight up a nail 22:07:37 Zannick: i actually like the sound of that 22:07:40 actually, this is a great xom effect idea 22:08:05 fr: weapon of xom that turns game into acidrobin 22:08:11 oh, what about a mirror that does that? 22:08:19 ??acidrobin 22:08:20 acidrobin[1/3]: A 100% accurate emulation of exploring a dungeon during a hallucinogenic trip. The password is 'robin'. It's probably advisable not to play if you have epilepsy or are prone to motion sickness. 22:08:21 best fixedart ever 22:08:25 you look into it, and everything is mislead, but you get some positive status effect 22:08:49 or maybe goggles 22:08:50 permafear effect 22:08:52 a mask? 22:09:08 against things of int < x, with eyes 22:09:08 oh jesus 22:09:16 where did acidrobin come from? 22:09:18 ??acidrobin[2] 22:09:18 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:19 notthepope[1/3]: Likes to streak wins on {AcidRobin}. 22:09:32 ??acidrobin[3] 22:09:33 acidrobin[3/3]: I thought tiles was already essentially acidrobin 22:09:35 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:09:53 bh: people have always been creative with robin scripts 22:09:55 ?? robin 22:09:56 robin[1/1]: Account for round-robin games (one player plays the character, then another, etc.). Login: roundrobin, demorobin, ghostrobin, quitrobin, noobrobin, zigrobin, mnolegrobin, ironrobin, mutarobin, elfrobin, slimerobin, hippyrobin, acidrobin, drugrobin, blindrobin, discorobin, blinkrobin, skillrobin, mummyrobin; Password: robin 22:10:10 haha mnolegrobin 22:10:13 ?? mnolegrobin 22:10:14 mnolegrobin[1/3]: Multi-purpose robin! Play as mnoleg and die to everything, or dive to and kill mnoleg as early as possible! Dying to mnoleg accepted and encouraged! Name: Mnoleg; Pass: robin 22:10:38 mnolegrobin is by far the best robin 22:10:47 !lg mnoleg 22:10:47 oh man. a mask where, when you wear it, all monsters look like you. quote: malkovich malkovich malkovich malkovich 22:10:48 20. Mnoleg the Miscreant (L6 SpEn), worshipper of Zin, demolished by an orc warrior (a +2,+2 orcish scimitar of protection) on D:8 on 2012-11-24 12:44:53, with 591 points after 3111 turns and 0:04:08. 22:10:53 Zannick: I didn't realize that crawl could be made so incoherent with some lua 22:11:17 \rainbow{LUA} 22:11:49 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:11:55 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:12:05 i wonder what the positive of such an item would be 22:12:14 not being able to see what monsters are what is a pretty big drawback 22:12:27 maybe the monsters all see you as one of them 22:13:32 that would i guess be pretty high stealth against everything but intelligent uniques 22:13:45 that sounds pretty wimpy 22:13:48 yeah 22:13:51 i dunno 22:14:13 probably you don't want to encourage people to swap it a lot, also 22:14:45 you get some absurd bonus for killing creatures that you lose when you remove it 22:14:56 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:15:56 ooh 22:16:02 what if it death channels everything you kill 22:16:25 so there's a bunch of illusions of you that appear as soon as you kill something 22:16:33 but if you remove it they disappear 22:16:38 |amethyst: it's like a badidea orgy in here 22:16:56 summons are pretty meh 22:17:16 hmm... what about a minor reflect pain? 22:17:27 er, mirror injury. forgot what it was called 22:19:04 no, i mean like wyrmbane. it gets permanently better as you kill stuff, but it disappears when you remove it 22:21:14 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 22:21:41 <3 wyrmbane 22:21:54 i like the idea of it being copies of yourself but i wonder if some other kind of monster would work better for effects 22:23:09 -!- icantfindaname_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:26:15 devbane, the fixedart that lets you break the fourth wall 22:29:48 Zannick: Home Alone breaks the fourth wall. I was shocked when I saw it. 22:31:47 hmm? 22:31:51 home alone? 22:32:00 twice actually. Once Kevin winks at the audience. Another time he looks into the camera and says "Here we go. Don't get scared." We should really use these artistic techniques in crawl. 22:32:14 Home Alone is an amazing movie 22:32:26 is it though 22:32:44 don't diss it 22:32:53 I'm not 22:32:53 but 22:32:55 amazing? 22:34:20 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:34:41 faze: warhammers are _not_ some silly gaming company's idea. They were one of most common medieval weapons. 22:35:22 they just didn't get much love during 19th century period of medieval misconceptions 22:35:47 war hammers were pretty much the best 22:36:26 cheap, and doing well against armour 22:36:28 but they're a pierce weapon, they have a small head whose corners flare into teeth for the purposes of punching through armour 22:36:37 they're also easy to use 22:37:10 it is kind of weird in crawl how maces require huge skill and swords require very little comparatively when in the real world it is the complete opposite 22:44:55 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:46:13 that mantis item seems to be wrong in every aspect: claiming that mace's 1 more acc over falchion is much better than "just" 1 less delay and mindelay; claiming long blades get 1h upgrades while maces don't (spiked flails come on common orcs, scimitars don't; demon whip > any long blade), the opposite for 2 handers (both have crap common version, only long blades have a good 2h rare) 22:47:33 the IRC discussion several hours before has better arguments, of course 22:47:49 axing half of M&F would be nice 22:48:11 kilobyte: best weapon ever is that Flemish polearm with a big chunk of wood and hooks on it 22:48:18 there's no reason to keep ordinary hammers, though 22:48:25 there's quite a few maces ya 22:48:25 Step 1. Get some villagers. Step 2. Give them polearms. Step 3. Murder a bunch of knights 22:48:36 bh: the godentag? 22:48:42 Pedjt: that's it 22:48:50 that's an interesting one 22:48:56 but I'd say the best weapon ever is the pollaxe 22:48:57 bh: You forgot optional step 2.5, give a different bunch of villagers crossbows 22:49:07 (If anyone happens to be around Massachusetts, I'd recommend visiting the Higgins Armory in Worcester) 22:49:15 bh: effective weapons had the church against you 22:49:16 ZChris13: so good they're illegal by order of his holiness the pope 22:49:16 ZChris13: or the modern day version: Give 'em AK-47s 22:49:35 Pedjt: Zin should forbid crossbow use. 22:49:47 Pedjt: he declared them illegal on the grounds that they where too terrible a weapon to ever be used 22:49:54 read: it would upset the status quo 22:51:54 Pedjt: actually, that's more an Ely thing 22:51:58 also, you underestimate the inequalities of the day. Elisabeth Bathory killed six hundred peasant girls and bathed in/drank their blood, all was ok -- she was related to royalty. But when she dared to touch just one daughter of an irrelevant minor noble... 22:52:11 you mean it was to terrible a weapon to ever be used by uppity peasants 22:52:23 that's what I just said 22:52:29 kilobyte: they bricked her up! 22:52:29 :) 22:52:53 and another thing 22:52:59 something needs to be done about swordnames 22:53:36 ??sword 22:53:36 I don't have a page labeled sword in my learndb. 22:53:39 ??swords 22:53:40 swords[1/1]: Pommel, hilt and blade. They're supposed to be sharp so as to use them as weapons would be useful. See {short blades} or {long blades} for a more accurate description. 22:53:44 ??long blades 22:53:44 long blades[1/1]: acc,dam,delay[hands]: falchion 2,8,13; long sword 1,10,14; scimitar -2,12,14; demon blade -1,13,13; double sword -1,15,15[1.5]; great sword -3,16,16[2]; triple sword -4,19,19[2] 22:53:47 triplesword should be called greatsword 22:53:58 and the current great sword should just be a long sword 22:54:16 (long swords are usually two-handed) 22:54:23 Pedjt: double sword -> bastard sword, triple sword -> claymore 22:54:46 greatswords are as big/bigger than claymores 22:54:57 22:55:34 the arming sword is a common one-handed sword that should probably be in there somewhere 22:55:41 Pedjt: 1.5-handed actually, they're easier to handle 2-handed but shields give too much an advantage in RL to be dismissed without a very good reason 22:56:29 kilobyte: depends on who you ask - most sword manuals seem to focus on two-handed techniques 22:57:27 Pedjt: there are many weapons called "greatsword", but most were a 19th century invention based on ceremonial guard swords 22:58:11 no one preserved real weapons while useless fancy stuff was kept on display and thus often survived to modern times 22:58:23 greatswords were actually a thing, they're not just a victorian romanticism 22:58:42 but certainly not common 22:59:16 -!- Rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 23:00:46 the big thing about the longer swords were their techniques for fighting heavily armoured foes 23:01:11 the hilt and crossguard were often very solid with spade-like terminations almost like a reformed crucifix 23:01:22 the worst thing is, the same word describes different weapons in different time periods 23:01:24 the sword would be inverted and used to pummel a plated enemy 23:02:10 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:13 german/swiss knechts had a thing for a kind of greatswords, although they're typically named something else 23:03:58 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:16 classifying anything as a longsword though is totally pointless, though 23:05:01 no more or less than any classification 23:05:02 since the word can be applied for anything from a strictly 1h rapier, through 1.5h stuff, to even sometimes strictly 2h stuff 23:05:22 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:34 again not really, a longsword is pretty strictly a two-handed sword of standard size 23:05:45 a rapier is a rapier 23:05:58 most common one-handed european blades are called arming swords 23:06:05 -!- Dixbert_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:26 let's add a rapier. Lower damage with a chance to crit. We can turn crawl into a 17th century combat sim. 23:08:45 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 19.0a2/20121221042018]] 23:08:57 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:10:35 -!- Dixbert_ is now known as Dixbert 23:10:45 bh: is that a promise to add guns? :o 23:11:06 Pedjt: we'd have to add Gungore, the god of blackpowder 23:11:41 you could also add gun-oriented uniques 23:11:54 ??bad ideas 23:11:54 bad ideas[1/1]: See http://crawl.akrasiac.org/bad_ideas.txt or http://sites.google.com/site/cherrypickedbadideas/ for ortoslon's selection of ~100 favorites. 23:11:55 Dirty Harry 23:11:58 Clint Eastwood 23:13:57 the first link there doesn't work 23:14:52 let's add a rapier. Lower damage with a chance to crit. We can turn crawl into a 17th century combat sim. 23:14:56 brogue has rapiers 23:14:59 they're bad imho 23:15:07 i still havent beaten brogue :[ 23:15:40 adding rapiers would be odd 23:15:44 the guy who wrote Brogue still won't have lunch with me 23:15:51 they're more of a gunpowder age weapon 23:15:56 %s/have lunch with/reply to my e-mail/ 23:16:47 that sort of implies an unhealthy obsession for the guy 23:16:54 let's keep to earlier periods, I'd say 23:16:57 like you're going to print out his email and eat it so you can have him inside you 23:17:24 I got amitp to have coffee with me by asking nicely 23:17:30 he must be pretty chill 23:17:32 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:17:36 who is amitp 23:17:52 Pedjt: www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/gameprog.html 23:18:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:18:55 he did the terrain generator for Realm of the Mad God. He has some really useful stuff that is *very* applicable to crawl 23:19:39 -!- Malik_Gynax has quit [] 23:23:40 looks like our 1h long blades are a pile of inconsistent crap 23:24:49 kilobyte: ? 23:25:01 falchion: so-so, but can be kept. Long sword: not at all as the word is basically meaningless and tends to refer to something else than it did in early D&D. Scimitar: a type of sabre... 23:25:16 yeah one-handed longswords is definitely a dndism 23:25:27 -!- foophy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:37 "demon blade" is a case of "a wizard did it" so it's ok; let's not even start about "double sword"... 23:26:06 I think something like arming sword > broadsword would work well 23:27:20 but again I don't think the term "longsword" is meaningless 23:29:13 Pedjt: it's rather a case of "several sources try to be authoritative, while having opposing claims" 23:29:40 kilobyte: can we add 'a wizard did it' as a quote on demon blade? 23:29:41 what are these sources? 23:29:55 -!- mivue has quit [Quit: mivue] 23:30:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:26 it describes a long, straight blade that is double-edged with a hilt for two hands and a crucifix-style crossguard, and whose blade is of a particular length (I don't recall the exact measurements but it was long enough to be unwieldy in one hand, but shorter than the so-called greatsword) 23:30:58 the greatsword I think was also differentiated by being blunt near the guard so it could be gripped by the blade 23:31:41 Pedjt: that's the current article on Wikipedia which shoves all other uses of the word under the carpet 23:32:08 instead of at least addressing them 23:32:36 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:32:52 this one is better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword_%28disambiguation%29 23:33:03 well idk thats a summary I got from an analysis of the federfechter 23:33:11 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 23:34:15 throwing in an estoc or a katana under "longsword" is silly 23:34:18 they're completely different 23:34:39 it's _translation_ 23:34:46 -!- CampinSam has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:58 longsword? 23:35:42 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 23:37:12 -!- icantfindaname has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:37:47 note the range: from 75cm (smallest spathas) to 180cm (longest German zweihanders) 23:39:01 longsword is a descriptor 23:39:07 not an exclusive category 23:39:21 and even the biased Wikipedia "longsword" article redirects as a "translation" to Polish version which in turn speaks only about 1.5-handers 23:41:51 what makes you say that it is biased? 23:42:33 I'm quite biased towards the .pl article as the weapon it describes was used a lot more than that "arming sword" 23:43:09 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 23:43:24 Pedjt: it might be correct for one particular type of a sword, but it tries to claim the name exclusively for it 23:45:14 well I think just by calling the category "long blades" that notion of a category has already been implemented 23:45:43 yeah 23:45:52 -!- caleb_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:47:49 but I do think the idea of a longsword/langes schwert/greatsword is reasonably specific and did not originally include things like the estoc or rapier (which were later weapons) and obviously didn't include the katana - I think you give the disambiguation page too much credit in that regard 23:49:58 though the manual translations I read weren't very good (and I don't read German) 23:50:00 Funny how the wretched star flash display bug gets noticed nearly the exact same time elsewhere that I noticed it myself (but was away and could not address it) 23:50:16 I believe I mistakenly thought visible_to implied LoS 23:50:43 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: that's can_see 23:50:49 And not just whether it could see you if you WERE in LoS 23:51:29 Yeah, I think the code bh did does something slightly different than I think it should 23:51:52 If it's using its ability against other creatures and you're on the other side of glass, you should still the flash bounded by the glass, I think 23:52:01 As opposed to seeing nothing and getting no message (but having it still affect monsters) 23:54:38 DracoOmega: bh's fix is wrong 23:54:44 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:55:21 although the old version was wrong too, of course 23:55:24 Yes 23:55:28 Just wrong in different ways 23:56:06 I quite recentlish added code to show the flash only on parts of the screen (for Refrig) 23:56:14 Yes, I have seen that in action 23:56:21 Which is what this should also do 23:57:18 I can whip up a small patch to get this flashing done right, in a little bit 23:58:53 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello]