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blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:11:38 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:11:44 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:17:57 -!- vogon_poet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:23:20 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 07:27:01 -!- Villadelfia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:16 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:33:55 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:20 This is more of a natural sloped shaft than a stairway, but it will do. If you 07:34:23 want to die from most potent venoms of this world, that is. 07:34:30 the most? 07:41:04 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:43:49 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1420-gc4df032: Fix Spider's Nest entrance desc (HangedMan) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c4df032e3279 07:45:56 -!- |amethyst has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:47:08 hooray, infinite attributions 07:47:22 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:45 infinite? 07:48:35 lots of, same difference 07:48:56 |amethyst: looks like there's 4 100% cpu crawl inception games on cszo 07:49:24 wow 07:50:18 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:51:36 * kilobyte ponders the concept of "lots of" being same as "infinite". 07:52:44 |amethyst: if there are 100% CPU processes, I want to know why the 60secs of user time without input reaper didn't kill them 07:59:07 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:02:16 kilobyte: http://pastebin.com/CMvv3XuY backtrace of one of the processes 08:02:38 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:43 (I killed the rest, they didn't react to hup or term) 08:05:11 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:10 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:27 I started reading the tavern. I guess this is why I don't read the tavern 08:21:28 bh: read backlog, there's inception to fix 08:21:51 HangedMan: approximately what time? 08:21:57 is this the save fix? 08:22:45 the thing about CPU usage sounds bad. 08:22:50 yeah 08:24:51 The likely candidate is integer rollover in morph_abyss 08:26:26 -!- helsbecter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:08 I guess this means I should make a wizmode command to set the abyss state 08:30:14 15939 | Lair:4 | XOM: polymorph plant -> plant 08:30:51 HangedMan: he got you good! 08:31:20 very surprising indeed 08:32:55 -!- archl has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121129165506]] 08:33:52 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:33:58 -!- Dedagen has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:34:24 wow. Something good from the tavern: "Why don't we remove Spellcasting?" 08:40:06 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:17 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:49:22 If I change the abyss teleport wiz command to (optionally) accept parameters, will I break anything? 08:52:24 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:14:08 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:20:32 HangedMan: yep. That's the problem :) 09:20:51 hooray, not hurting servers in the future 09:21:04 hooray for writing a new wiz command to reproduce a bug 09:21:31 wizmode needs more stuff anyway 09:21:45 like a "win crawl and put me on the leaderboard thanks" 09:22:29 like a detect items and put it on the map ability 09:22:48 so I can stop teleporting around just to compare loot and threat in vaults 09:23:40 ok. Here's the problem: Depth approaches 2^32. Values get pushed on the queue with overflowed values. Then it thrashes. 09:23:53 sounds good 09:23:57 The hack fix would be to make max depth be up to 2^64 and only initialize it on a 2^32 range... 09:24:07 also good 09:24:12 this is a good idea 09:24:35 Eronarn, HangedMan: did both of you write 'good' when you meant 'bad'? 09:24:52 it's good in that it's bad 09:24:59 I *guess* it's safe 09:25:13 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:32 bh: the worst case scenario is that it works. but it might even produce some hilarious new bugs! 09:27:12 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:23 whoa. I just found a hilarious bug. I *never* initialize abyssal_state.seed 09:27:35 -!- fdel is now known as Nexos_ 09:27:38 Since it's static it should get set to zero 09:32:44 -!- minqmay has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:09 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:44 bh: did you see the stacktrace I posted from the inception 100% cpu process? 09:36:17 ( http://pastebin.com/CMvv3XuY ) 09:41:55 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 09:43:13 -!- Dedagen has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:43:19 -!- Brainsoup has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:48:40 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:50:08 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:53:28 edlothiol: I didn't see your stack trace, but I believe I've patched it 09:53:57 edlothiol: hrmph. That looks different than what I fixed :) 09:55:39 edlothiol: that looks a lot more like a save state compatibility crash than a loop 09:55:50 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:44 -!- bh has quit [Quit: back later] 10:05:01 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:06:15 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:21 -!- ddee is now known as _dd 10:27:57 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:22 -!- ZRN has quit [] 10:41:05 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:12 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 10:52:42 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:04:45 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:04:52 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:57 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:41 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:10 <|amethyst> kilobyte: hm... according to that stack trace it was inside _crash_signal_handler 11:50:27 <|amethyst> kilobyte: but that should only block the same signal 11:50:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:53:00 <|amethyst> kilobyte: is the 60 second reaper part of dgl? What signal does it use? 11:53:13 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:54:01 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I see both game_idle_kill and dgl_idle_kill 11:57:16 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:32 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:46 -!- clemux has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:05:39 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:47 -!- Kromgart has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:22:58 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:34 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:42 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:24 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:38:24 -!- lessens has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:39:02 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:09 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:35 -!- maha has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:05 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:35 -!- serge has quit [Client Quit] 12:42:40 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 12:51:54 xomscumming (L9 MuCK) ASSERT(_valid()) in 'ray.cc' at line 194 failed. (D:7) 12:52:32 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:55:24 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:29 -!- Xares has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:56:44 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:38 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:36 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:29 -!- Dixbert_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:32 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:16:07 -!- mamga_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:20:27 -!- phirt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:22:28 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:28:28 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:28:43 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:59 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:35:02 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:07 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:48:20 -!- mamga_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:50:23 Is there a reason why we waste three lines on the description screen showing stash search prefixes and "Menu/colouring prefixes" (I don't even know what these are)? 13:52:13 I can't even seem to find an item that has any "Menu/colouring prefixes" other than "equipped" 13:52:31 elliptic: I've changed he wizmode abyss teleport to ask for coordinates (and default to random if none are provided). Can you see this breaking anything? 13:53:18 and nearly all of the stash search prefixes are similarly uninteresting 13:53:46 especially given that if you are looking at the description, you've found the item and don't need to search for it 13:54:34 bh: by wizmode teleport do you mean &^B or something else? 13:54:41 <|amethyst> menu/colouring is for menu_colour and similar options 13:54:54 bh: &^A 13:54:54 <|amethyst> they're only there for advanced users 13:55:03 er. elliptic 13:55:22 oh, that command exists 13:55:27 <|amethyst> maybe put them on the ! screen (until description is scrollable and they can just go near the bottom without pushing off more important info) 13:56:11 bh: I don't know, it sounds fine... the most it would break is wizmode presumably? 13:56:17 <|amethyst> but the idea was that that info should be in-game somewhere 13:57:09 |amethyst: isn't options_guide.txt a more appropriate place? 13:57:16 <|amethyst> keeping the full list(s) up-to-date in options_guide.txt might work just as well 13:57:19 not sure why every single item needs this 13:57:21 <|amethyst> yeah 13:58:07 it's sort of nice to be able to look at an item to figure out how to colour it in theory but it's so hopelessly marginal that displaying it by default seems pointless 13:58:22 at the very least, I feel like adding an option (defaulting to false) for displaying this would be an improvement? 13:58:52 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:58:57 since as you said, it is only for advanced users 14:00:09 probably it should just be removed 14:00:18 or hung off some obscure key combo or something 14:00:31 anyone who wants to tweak their rc has to read the options guide anyway 14:00:51 a bit more trial and error for those people vs. cleaner interface for everyone seems like an obvious trade-off to make 14:02:23 so it doesn't even look to me like documenting this in options_guide.txt should be that hard, unless there is more to this than what is documented at the top of dat/clua/stash.lua? 14:03:18 <|amethyst> elliptic: menu/colour prefix is handled elsewhere (in C++), but I think is mostly documented 14:04:36 I see, _item_prefix 14:04:50 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:07:50 it looks to me like _item_prefix() is pretty well documented, except for this "forbidden" that looks redundant anyway? 14:08:14 -!- Dixbert_ is now known as Dixbert 14:12:16 -!- geedmat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:14:56 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:16:15 -!- serge has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:17:40 No prompt before drinking blood when worshipping a good god. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6465) by elliptic 14:21:14 I guess the correct place for the stash search documentation is actually the ^F? screen 14:21:18 which has some of it already 14:38:37 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 14:47:26 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow] 14:48:15 -!- Dedagen has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:57:20 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:05:54 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:15 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 15:16:50 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17:57 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:20:01 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:52 <|amethyst> !seen ontoclasm 15:21:53 I last saw ontoclasm at Fri Dec 14 00:36:01 2012 UTC (1w 2d 20h 45m 52s ago) joining the channel. 15:28:22 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-1421-gd95b296: Remove redundant "forbidden" prefix. 10(71 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d95b296bec02 15:28:22 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-1422-g68daa12: Remove prefix lists from item descriptions, update documentation. 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 14-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=68daa12bbcb2 15:28:22 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-1423-g72bdf47: Clean up rod descriptions a bit. 10(7 minutes ago, 4 files, 11+ 18-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=72bdf47f1a61 15:28:24 -!- mcevers has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:28:57 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 15:30:49 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:57 -!- hhkb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:38:36 elliptic: "there is very little room for a quote anyway" -- on cripplingly small terminals, that is 15:40:23 hugeterm, it's the future 15:40:37 as for the two types of stash prefixes: there's a lot of useful ones in either section, with only quite small overlap. For some item types there's indeed just "equipped", for others, there's more. 15:41:06 ghallberg: tiles, webtiles, reasonable console 15:41:33 ghallberg: although the root of the problem is that '!' inconsistency, which some but not all description types use 15:41:41 hmm 15:42:02 kilobyte: they are useful, that is why they are documented in the ^F? screen now 15:42:27 ghallberg: the problem is, the scroller is not working for items/etc. If it did, we'd be able to let some stuff scroll off instead of causing a crash. 15:43:11 elliptic: another issue, every thing that allows prefixes other than my new item_glyph allows only one of prefix types 15:43:44 they should be unified somehow, I guess 15:44:53 also, evil_eating is worse than forbidden since it's applicable only to food, while demonic/draining/etc items should get it too 15:45:10 kilobyte: they get a different prefix 15:45:32 possibly they should be unified, yes... but forbidden was only being used for food previously 15:45:42 they shouldn't -- nor should they work in only one prefix type 15:45:50 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:58 the root issue are the two types, I think 15:46:03 that should be fixed first 15:46:07 (gotta AFK_ 15:46:08 we have evil_item currently, for all items your god hates 15:46:19 evil_eating is something that food that your god hates also gets 15:46:39 forbidden used to be given to food that your got hates but not including blood for some reason 15:46:42 thus I removed it 15:46:58 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:47:26 thus I don't really understand your statement above 15:48:07 but feel free to reorganize everything... I mainly removed forbidden because it seemed completely useless as implemented and because removing it was easier than documenting it 15:49:53 it sounds like you want forbidden to do the same thing that evil_item currently does, and indeed that is probably a better name for it 15:53:10 ok, i think i know how to fix the cold brand destroying potions 15:53:26 so, actor.h has a virtual method expose_to_element() 15:53:57 if i add an argument to that, i also have to add it to the declarations in player/monster.h and player/monster.cc? 15:54:22 i am still learning about c++ classes 15:54:56 can i pass a 'default argument' to a c++ function/method? 15:54:56 yes 15:55:03 yes 15:55:13 func(..., blah arg = default, ...) in the header 15:55:19 cool 15:55:54 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:32 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00:41 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:01:21 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:04:11 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:08:55 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:42 -!- DaneiTWO has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:17:01 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:20:29 -!- Regine has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 16:20:48 -!- anele has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:34 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:02 -!- SamB has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25:28 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:52 -!- mcevers has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:17 -!- RexBael has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:32:08 -!- BoredOne has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:33:13 <|amethyst> RFIREPLUS 16:33:15 <|amethyst> doh 16:41:08 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: Stay sane inside insanity!] 16:41:58 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 16:42:51 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 16:44:27 actually, there are _three_ sets of prefixes 16:44:29 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:45:30 distinct for such great reason as 'the user might want to filter on "ident" to find scrolls of identify' -- so there's no "identified" prefix there 16:46:46 yeah, I noticed that one... seems a great reason given that "ident" already gets every trident in the dungeon :P 16:51:05 scroll of tridentify, turns any weapon into a trident 16:51:11 or any object? incl. orb 16:52:29 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:03 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 16:53:16 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:56:00 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:00:15 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:21 -!- Brainsoup has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:14:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:09 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:19:49 -!- rchandra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:13 elliott: How about a potion of porkalator. It turns you into a swine. 17:25:24 swine player race plz 17:25:49 elliott: with Trufflesense 3 17:26:00 And Oinkitis 2 17:26:45 I'm down. Let's delete an elf species first. 17:27:32 something about finishing the bad forms replacing making wand of polymorph other on enemies one of the most annoying things period 17:27:50 should just make enemies not zap poly other as a stopgap 17:28:52 but that's interrupting making every enemy zap wands so we can have enemies besides deep troll earth mages digging out wider corridors 17:29:07 and also a goblin on d:3 zapping fireball only for players to take like 2 damage 17:29:19 erm, enemies zapping every wand 17:31:43 HangedMan: cacodemons could dig out corridors 17:32:16 enemies besides deep troll earth mages and cacodemons 17:33:56 -!- aleksil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:34:07 who needs other enemies 17:34:09 elliott: I've added incorporeality as a habitat type. I'd like to see something other than spatial vortices use it 17:34:46 * kilobyte starts thinking about how to persuade bh halflings are an elf species. 17:35:01 kilobyte: I'll delete halflings if you let me delete an elf species too. 17:35:15 something about trying to remember who was working on bad forms 17:35:30 ??bad forms 17:35:31 I don't have a page labeled bad_forms in my learndb. 17:35:50 bh: for wand of polymorph because blah blah blah 17:36:20 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:31 HangedMan: if you'd want to implement it, it'd be cool :p 17:39:02 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:39:14 because there's a limit on free time one has 17:39:18 kilobyte: I went on days of rampaging and ranting doing muck on a bet for somebody to pick up your abandoned mon-pick fix-up, I've given up on doing anything besides talk 17:39:33 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:09 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:23 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:07:32 HangedMan: if you want halflings to die, they will die tonight. 18:07:33 er 18:07:35 kilobyte 18:08:47 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 18:09:58 it's hard to say which races are redundant, as they tend to be redundant with something else 18:10:37 like, you can argue which one of (kobold, halfling) should go 18:10:54 both! Let's make a kobling 18:11:01 or a hafbold 18:11:21 like when hill and mountain dwarves were merged into one? 18:11:37 or minotaurs and mountain dwarves 18:12:18 which resulted in that whole niche being piled onto a single race, which shows in statistics 18:12:34 !lg * win t s=crace 18:12:35 473 games for * (win t s=crace): 96x Minotaur, 30x Hill Orc, 28x Deep Dwarf, 25x High Elf, 25x Troll, 20x Demonspawn, 20x Deep Elf, 19x Merfolk, 19x Kobold, 18x Spriggan, 18x Ogre, 18x Centaur, 14x Sludge Elf, 14x Draconian, 14x Human, 13x Naga, 12x Halfling, 11x Tengu, 11x Octopode, 11x Demigod, 10x Vampire, 10x Mummy, 9x Ghoul, 8x Felid 18:13:35 over freaking three times more wins than the next race, which goes mostly into the warrior-in-heavy-armour niche as well 18:14:01 how's the win percentage though? 18:14:52 HO is more similar to MD than Mi is really 18:15:17 and they're just as good at fighting with big axes in heavy armour, arguably better 18:16:25 if only dwarves got to experience cleaving 18:17:58 -!- tkappleton1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:02 !lg * t s=crace / win 18:18:03 473/45563 games for * (t s=crace): 28/894x Deep Dwarf [3.13%], 18/858x Centaur [2.10%], 96/5613x Minotaur [1.71%], 25/1567x Troll [1.60%], 12/767x Halfling [1.56%], 18/1162x Ogre [1.55%], 30/2210x Hill Orc [1.36%], 25/2101x High Elf [1.19%], 19/1663x Merfolk [1.14%], 14/1314x Sludge Elf [1.07%], 9/866x Ghoul [1.04%], 19/1847x Kobold [1.03%], 11/1234x Demigod [0.89%], 20/2333x Deep Elf [0.86%], 13/... 18:18:37 Time to nerf DDs! 18:18:56 instead of not healing, maybe they should also take decay like ghouls. 18:18:57 the biggest nerf target IMO is Trog 18:21:23 ooh, weapon acquirement 18:21:30 hm? 18:21:59 Troggies get around three times as many weapons as Okawarites, and with better quality too (+dam instead of +acc) 18:22:37 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:22:40 yes, this is because they don't get spells or armour acquirement 18:22:53 !lg kilobyte won trog 18:22:54 4. KiloByte the Skullcrusher (L27 OgHu), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2011-04-18 00:18:22, with 1956069 points after 97958 turns and 8:25:06. 18:23:10 !lg kilobyte trog 18:23:10 449. KiloByte the Axe Maniac (L27 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, blasted by an orb of fire (bolt of fire) on Zot:5 (hall of Zot) on 2012-11-26 14:15:23, with 671390 points after 78808 turns and 7:04:45. 18:23:39 could make trog not give a billion antimagic weapons per game 18:23:43 trog is powerful, yes 18:24:04 but you give up a lot by giving up spells 18:24:21 -!- Wehk_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:25 elliott: that's why I'm proposing making him give only 333 million of those antimagic weapons 18:25:42 %git :/[Bb]erserk.*[Dd]uration 18:25:56 03MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-1274-gc523b2f: Necklace of Bloodlust: frequently extend berserk duration on kills 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 11+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c523b2fb21d0 18:25:56 kilobyte: That's a patch I'd approve. 18:25:56 the first gift is not affected by the timeout 18:26:29 %git :/(^Bloodlust).*[Bb]erserk.*[Dd]uration 18:26:31 Could not find commit :/(^Bloodlust).*[Bb]erserk.*[Dd]uration (git returned 128) 18:26:44 oh 18:26:58 would rather reduce the antimagic percentage than the number personally 18:27:04 also, piety cost of abilities: Trog's Hand (would nerf DDs!) and Bros (snuffs Makhleb's demons or TSO's angels, needs no skill investment) 18:30:54 bros currently cost something like 10% piety? 18:31:16 i guess bumping up the trog's hand piety cost is a decent idea 18:31:22 i use it more the for MR boost 18:31:56 in some situations i'd rather have a greater servant 18:32:06 but yes, bros can clear a screen of enemies pretty well 18:32:38 tso angels can last for a very long time in hells/pan 18:33:15 vs. &s I don't think there's much of a competition between bia and angels 18:33:52 So you guys are nerfing Trog? 18:34:37 well vs &s is also obviously not where trog has any kind of balance issues 18:35:08 -!- _dd has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:36:11 MarvinPA: certainly but I think "snuffs" is a little far :P 18:36:15 MarvinPA: any opinion on killing/merging kobold/halfling? 18:36:18 angels are pretty amazing 18:36:48 they continue to be useful after the & is gone too 18:37:03 bros can help you there, but they're gone after 18:40:41 no blessing outside hells and pan 18:41:25 (tomb has blessings but angels die like flied there, abyss frequently shifts/teleports them away) 18:43:11 bh: of these two, I'd call halflings more redundant, since the small high-stealth short blade stabber niche is shared with spriggans 18:44:15 what do you mean by angels dying like flies in tomb? I've seen plenty of blessings in there....admittedly, my own personal experience is mostly confined to dancing giant spiked clubs and hydras, but I watch games!! 18:44:31 halfling isn't much of a stabber compared to spriggan 18:44:51 and abyss shifts aren't that frequent... 18:44:53 also it gets absurd defenses and has good hp 18:45:28 monqy: my point is, hells and pan have tons of popcorn angels can rack up their duration on, in tomb everything is either individually hard or summoned 18:45:29 i associate ha more with "hp:infinity/infinity; ac: infinity; ev: infinity; sh: infinity" + good at stealth than outright spriggan squishy-enchantery stuff 18:45:51 kobold is much closer to spriggan in terms of small/squishy/stabbiness, yes 18:46:11 still, I've heard hell+pan alone is 9/15 of the game 18:48:23 monqy: you're assigning the same weight to pan runes as to tomb or hells 18:48:34 that's the joke 18:49:02 I'm also assigning the same weight to pan runes as the parts of the game that aren't collecting runes 18:49:37 could weight them by time spent 18:49:46 preferably RL time 18:51:02 at least for me, tomb is the prime culprit, being somewhere around all of pan if not zigs are involved 18:53:40 angels are very good in tomb if you haste them 18:53:54 -!- ophanim has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:59 -!- Vandal has quit [] 18:54:15 -!- Zifmia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:39 i'll spill the beans: I wasn't being serious at all; i was alluding to an argument about holy weapon brand, wherein it was claimed to be effective in 11/15 of the game (and in a retort, 0/3 of the game) 18:57:25 monqy: yeah but I'd risk saying that among rune branches, the proportion of living vs demon/undead is close to 4/15 18:58:16 -!- nita has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:58:47 ime most of the game timewise is spent outside of extended, where most everything is natural 18:58:56 especially in non-15 runers 18:59:03 but as far as angels go 18:59:12 I forgot where i was going with my train of thought 19:00:30 anyway nerfing trog in some way(s) sounds reasonable to me, since it looks like that is where this actually started 19:01:09 for nerfing brothers, the real culprits are iron troll / stone giant... the others have a decent chance of dying 19:01:26 probably just lowering the chances of those at high piety would be enough 19:02:23 I wonder if something could be done to the lack of skill cost 19:02:37 [wrt nerfing trog by way of antimagic] in addition to reducing antimagic spawning, I think a few antimagic mechanics could be changed, seeing how well it -disables- spellcasters, and even things that don't actually cast spells 19:02:54 I think the lack of invocations skilling differentiates Trog quite nicely 19:02:58 even if it is weirdly inconsistent 19:03:00 nerfing gifts in some way sounds fine also... maybe just make them less frequent (like, the number of gifts could be reduced to 66% of the current amount or something) 19:03:38 my initial idea was to give as many weapons as Okawaru does; I still think that's the best idea 19:04:02 I actually like the way trog invocations depend heavily on your piety level, it creates more interesting choices (do I spend piety now, or try to wait until it is at ******) 19:04:06 as for upping the cost of Bros, you guys raised good arguments so let's wait there 19:04:33 i would also approve of reducing gift quantity by some amount or other 19:04:42 kilobyte: if that actually means making there be 33% of gifts, that seems rather overboard 19:04:47 no need to overdo this nerf 19:04:48 so perhaps the success chance could be lowered a lot? 19:05:16 kilobyte: as I said, the problem is with iron trolls/stone giants being utterly ridiculous, not with the cost 19:05:16 Lucy gives a distortion weapon *once*, you can get the necronomicron once, you get a holy weapon once. Why the onslaught of anti-magic shwag? 19:06:15 bh: you get to put those on a weapon of your choice...as far as "end game" goes it'd be pretty much the same as currently (i.e. you find a good base type and antimagic it) except your antimagic weapon can't be an artefact 19:06:40 as far as pre-endgame goes tho 19:06:53 I think it affects fewer things? 19:07:14 Idk the stats, or the stats on how soon you'd get a base type for "end game" antimagicing 19:07:34 I think it would be a bit weird to both have weapon gifts and have a 1-time antimagic rebranding 19:07:53 the gifts also make it so you get a good base type sooner 19:07:58 one possibility is to remove the weapon gifts, but that would be such a huge nerf that I'm not really suggesting it 19:07:58 yes 19:08:29 i wouldn't be entirely against replacing the gifts with a one-time antimagic brand but also it's kinda boring and 3 other gods already do the same thing 19:09:03 I think it would be better if trog just gave you, like, four really good weapons and that's it forever 19:09:12 so just toning down the gifts somehow seems like a better approach 19:09:15 it would be basically equivalent to the current situation except with less floor junk and identification 19:10:23 -!- crazedpsyc has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:10:27 determining what is "really good" seems tricky 19:10:29 what's a really good weapon? there's the whole problem with the game has to guess what you want, and that's fine if you're not going into it expecting to get what you want, but if the amount of stuff you get is limited to such a point.... 19:10:33 yes that 19:10:47 guessing what people want is hard 19:10:50 which is aiui a reason why acq gives junk a lot of the time rather than just being really really rare 19:12:30 one suggestion that has been made in the past is to silently suppress gifts that are the same type/brand as an earlier gift 19:12:39 so only one antimagic battleaxe gift each game 19:12:53 and gifts would get less frequent as the game progresses because of this 19:12:54 by "really good" I just mean more heavily weighted to weapons you have skill in and with a better chance of having good plusses 19:12:58 and good brands 19:13:21 not saying this is an ideal trog gifting system or whatever, it could also try and offer more decisions rather than just throwing great weapons at you 19:15:07 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:16:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 19:18:29 I ran some numbers: unless I made a mistake somewhere, Trog gives 2.41 as many weapons as Oka at max piety. 19:19:32 this ratio falls slowly as piety decreases, but is always above 2.0 19:20:33 how close are real games to this model? e.g. if trog worshippers end up having lower piety than oka worshippers or vice-versa because of invocations or other odd piety mechanics or somesuch 19:20:47 though I guess it's a good enough approximation.. 19:22:29 -!- Zifmia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:23 a radical idea: what if Trog gave _only_ weapons of antimagic? With a skill+piety requirement, so you can't get that exec axe until quite late. 19:24:59 kilobyte: I hate that idea, since antimagic is near-useless early on 19:25:00 that sounds strictly worse... 19:25:12 er in terms of goodness not in terms of strength 19:27:02 kilobyte: also skill requirements sound like they are likely to involve magic numbers (how high do I need to raise this skill to start getting exec axes?) 19:27:27 but the main thing is just that antimagic is an incredibly boring brand 19:28:52 often exactly the same as being unbranded, sometimes completely brokenly overpowered... in late game it is a fair brand against liches and frederick and such, but before and after it just stinks (after because of how good it is against 400 HP monsters) 19:29:12 only as boring as any other other than distortion and chaos, but yeah 19:29:20 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:30:24 I agree that antimagic is problematic... I don't really see how it's comparable to every non-disto non-chaos brand 19:30:47 how are we defining boring here.....I think we're using different definitions of boring..... 19:31:10 pain: sometimes completely brokenly overpowered, often exactly the same as being unbranded 19:31:22 Personal opinion is to keep kobold, ditch halfling 19:31:52 hurting an enemy isn't really the same thing as making it melee-only 19:31:55 Or at least overhaul it significantly; maybe more of a focus on ranged combat? 19:32:15 antimagic is interesting when it isn't a perfect solution with other things on screen 19:32:19 mostly it working on orbs of fire really bothers me, since they are a major threat in zot:5 and not even really "spellcastery" :( 19:32:21 kilobyte: sure, I wouldn't want a god to gift a dozen pain weapons or a dozen freezing weapons either 19:32:48 pain is a little more then sometimes useful for much of the minimum needed for a game 19:33:56 kilobyte: but at least pain is useful when you start getting gifts, antimagic is not 19:34:02 (first gift usually in lair) 19:34:33 -!- Nabski has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:34:41 right 19:34:46 -!- pantaril has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:35:02 -!- chunk has quit [Client Quit] 19:35:02 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:10 it gets useful after Lair, but then you have lulls like Swamp and Spider 19:35:28 it's not really useful until liches IMO 19:35:35 no help against impalers and naga warriors, too 19:36:02 as currently implemented, it doesn't do that much against low-HP monsters until it has does enough damage to kill them 19:36:46 s/does/done/ 19:36:49 greater nagas have plenty of hp, but indeed spellcasters in orc are fragile 19:37:00 or elf 19:37:38 yeah, it's decent against greater nagas too, and a few other monsters in late D/V... but not really in orc, most of lair branches, and mid-D 19:38:31 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:38:53 ie, it ends up mostly a clone of holy wrath 19:39:07 (as in, places it tends to be useful in) 19:39:10 -!- rkd has quit [] 19:39:13 aside from orbs of fire, yes 19:39:23 and egolems 19:39:31 zealots 19:39:46 HangedMan: doesn't affect priests anymore 19:39:46 zealots? 19:39:48 yes 19:40:31 I don't really see a flavour necessity for it to affect orbs of fire 19:40:37 isn't there something still annoying about sources of spells and antimagic/silence 19:40:57 it makes sense that it'd only affect spells actually *cast* i.e. intelligent spellcasters or whatever 19:41:03 (I was surprised to find out it did) 19:41:20 elliott: necessity: no, good flavour: yes (magical beings) 19:41:37 I think it definitely plays better for it to be useful against more than liches in zot, too 19:41:41 is also less boring than if it affected only sentient beings 19:41:46 yeah 19:41:50 fr antimagic negates golems so they just fall apart instantly 19:42:17 the only thing I really dislike about antimagic is the bit where it is ridiculous against & 19:42:49 perhaps the chance could be divided by maxhp of the monster? 19:43:04 clearly we need to give more dangerous brands to the lords 19:43:07 or even be a flat chance to fail for everyone in view 19:43:17 scary demon lord, etc, prevented from ever casting a spell again by being cut up a bit by some random weapon 19:43:41 kilobyte: having the chance be based on damage/maxhp was what I was thinking 19:53:22 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:53:40 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:54:46 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:55:41 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:00 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:57 -!- garrm101 has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:31 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:14:28 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:59 kilobyte, MarvinPA: can I axe halfbolds? :) 20:24:48 I oppose! :P 20:25:34 !abyss DracoOmega 20:25:35 bh casts a spell. DracoOmega is devoured by a tear in reality! 20:26:00 DracoOmega: I'm removing the seed parameters from the abyss. It seems silly to have a 2^32^4 square abyss when a 2^32^3 square abyss will do the trick 20:27:18 fr sub-abyss that randomly happens during abyssal shifts that places you in a layout noticably small in one dimension and with wrap-around in that dimension 20:27:46 HangedMan: like a pacman map. 20:27:56 if only we could zoom out from that 20:28:07 and see @s cascading against chasing Xs forever 20:28:24 probably do not need to delay inception for hydraslayer style tricks though 20:29:37 !? 20:30:36 we should make our halflings like hydra slayer's halflings 20:31:01 that would be great and probably snap crawl in half at the same time 20:31:09 i know, right 20:31:12 let's do itttt 20:31:15 perfectly suiting 20:31:28 What's their gimmick there? 20:31:38 (halflings in hydra slayer are always twins you control as one sort of unit) 20:31:41 DracoOmega: hexagons. 20:32:02 also hydraslayer supports hexagon and square seperately because that guy is insane 20:32:04 Wait, so a halfling really is half a player? 20:32:09 yes 20:32:14 it's great 20:32:16 Haha 20:33:29 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:33:45 if I ever write catamad I want to have a party mechanic. Give the player four @'s with control over one. No one is dead until everyone is dead, and require the @'s maintain visual contact 20:33:56 However, writing a RL in haskell is a dumb idea. 20:35:14 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:57 what else did hydraslayer do for maps besides torus and sphere, it's been too long 20:37:40 -!- ophanim has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:45:10 as in? 20:46:36 shapes 20:46:40 lots of fractals 20:46:56 and also other stuff 20:48:09 crawl maps would probably not support fractals, sigh 20:48:31 well, ideal fractals and not just snapshots 20:56:01 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:06 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:56:24 -!- nita has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:57:58 -!- kek has quit [Quit: sleep] 21:00:27 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:03:09 -!- Velocijacktor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:04:22 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:09:40 -!- djinni has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:10:21 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:28 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:25 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 21:31:05 hm. how about a mutation that increased your AC when your HP falls? 21:31:19 20% hp = +x AC, 10% hp = +y AC 21:32:34 -!- Ronin has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:45 trying to come up with a good pun between AC and augmentation but failing 21:33:02 ...although that got reversed or something didn't it 21:33:14 HangedMan: we don't need another race, but I could imagine it being on a turtle race 21:33:44 <|amethyst> augmentacion 21:34:04 <|amethyst> I guess you said "good pun" 21:34:32 acgmentation 21:34:56 |amethyst: sorry, I don't speak Spanish. 21:35:14 armourgmentation 21:35:38 AuCmentation 21:35:43 like I said, this is hard 21:35:56 ACmentation 21:36:09 acme nation 21:36:45 Or just call it "Shell" 21:36:48 ok 21:37:35 good idea, bad idea, inconsequential idea? 21:37:38 makes me think of the rather ineffectual escaping patterns of agate snails and (alligator) snapping turtles 21:37:53 HangedMan: that's the inspiration 21:38:07 agate snail player race 21:38:09 clearly increasing ac with lowered hp works better for those rather then keeping around fleeing for three monsters without the fleeing 21:38:26 for the record we actually do need more races 21:38:29 aside from the fact that agate snails basically do nothing but what can you do 21:38:30 not at 27 yet 21:38:33 reach 27 r 21:38:34 right 21:38:40 and you can't remove halfling until we get to 28 21:38:51 elliptic: can you look at a patch, I seem to be getting save compatibility wrong 21:38:52 make them twins 21:39:31 I'm not sure exactly how well increasing AC with lowering HP would work, but it does sound better than the (old) augmentation 21:39:38 -!- Jayrays has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:39:45 because defenses are more what you want at low HP 21:40:25 bh: I can glance at it, but not much time right now and I'm not that great with save compat 21:40:29 https://gist.github.com/4367364 21:40:36 or anyone else who feels like looking 21:40:39 something to be bitter about when it acts up in response to hellfire and torment, mm? 21:40:57 the exciting bit is in tags.cc :) 21:41:26 how about giving halflings rN+? 21:42:10 nobody ever never came up with a way to better describe life protection and protection from negative energy :( 21:42:10 <|amethyst> bh: seed was added with TAG_MINOR_DEEP_ABYSS, right? 21:42:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:42:28 |amethyst: I believe so 21:42:39 oh derp. 21:42:42 <|amethyst> bh: so that if should be inside the one for TAG_MINOR_DEEP_ABYSS 21:42:43 so saves predating that will explode. 21:43:26 |amethyst: I wish our save files were just typesafe. 21:43:55 <|amethyst> bh: talk to kilobyte :) 21:44:23 <|amethyst> also, I'd say "was abyssal_state.seed" instead of "slough an int" 21:44:33 -!- Dedagen1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44:35 k 21:45:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:14 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-1481-ga136731: Cleanup Abyssal State 10(2 minutes ago, 7 files, 45+ 20-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a1367312fd8e 21:47:25 -!- Jayrays has quit [Changing host] 21:47:32 -!- Jayrays has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:09 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:25 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 22:01:48 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:05:02 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:05:35 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:03 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1423-g72bdf47 22:09:34 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:10:16 -!- ZC|Mobile has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 22:13:45 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:09 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 22:15:13 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:19:37 -!- phirt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:22:36 dying to pain mirror yields the death message "killed by a reflected bolt" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6466) by reid 22:23:19 -!- archl has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:30:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:33:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 22:34:58 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:13 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:42:23 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:45:56 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:38 -!- CampinSam has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:51 -!- Nexos_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:47:21 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:00 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:24 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:56:34 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:39 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 22:56:59 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Client Quit] 22:58:29 -!- Rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 23:01:56 -!- squid is now known as Guest9592 23:03:46 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:07:26 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 23:10:52 -!- mcevers has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:50 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:22 -!- mcevers_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:16 -!- Brainsoup has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:24:56 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:04 -!- Krag has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:31:51 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 23:46:01 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:47:31 -!- geedmat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:48:10 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 23:55:10 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]