00:01:00 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1341-gbb9c5e6 (34) 00:02:25 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:04 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:48 -!- bleak` has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:11 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:04:45 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:04:48 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 00:04:58 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:06:20 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:07:42 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1341-gbb9c5e6 00:13:37 Nice. I seem to have broken something via rebase twice in the same day 00:14:59 DracoOmega: don't do that! :) 00:15:06 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:11 You weren't here for the fun earlier, were you? 00:15:13 noticed a bug with cleaving, not sure if it's been addressed yet 00:15:26 Where I managed to leave git in such an invalid state that it could neither continue NOR abort 00:15:30 G-Flex: go on? 00:15:33 DracoOmega: that's bad. 00:15:36 you cleave even if you use ctrl-move to attack empty space 00:15:44 I did fix it, but it was kind of amazing 00:15:45 which is bad because attacking empty space always uses 1.0 turns 00:16:00 potentially allowing you to attack things much faster if your delay is bad 00:16:19 Well, remember that hits against non-main targets do less damage 00:16:20 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:16:26 yes 00:16:30 But yes, that does still sound problematic 00:16:37 but it's potentially useful if there are a lot of them 00:17:26 that's a cute bug 00:17:27 I can understand maybe attacking empty space to cleave around it if the enemies are positioned strangely, but not if it doesn't take weapon delay into account 00:17:36 but I assume attacking empty space always takes 1.0 turns for a reason 00:17:42 Why DOES attacking empty spaces always take 1.0, anyway? 00:17:52 Oh, to make it less useful for speedrunning 00:17:53 I assumed it was to prevent players from micromanaging their waiting times 00:18:09 Otherwise you could wield a really slow weapon and swing it to make time pass quickly 00:18:27 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:31 DracoOmega: that's not a problem with that, that's a problem with people caring about length in player turns 00:18:44 Well, I do think that's why it was changed to work that way 00:18:50 What if we just make attacking an empty space *not* cleave? 00:18:52 Because I'm pretty sure it didn't used to 00:18:55 you could say that about a lot of things 00:19:00 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:19:01 it's a very metagamey thing 00:19:07 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 00:19:08 it only relates to a flawed timing mechanic 00:19:12 that doesn't actually affect the game 00:19:23 Well, it affects scoring quite a lot 00:19:36 maybe scoring shouldn't depend on player turns, and should use real game turns, then? 00:19:45 since there are other implications of that anyway 00:19:49 like favoring slow weapons in combat 00:20:10 Well, real game turns has other problems 00:20:15 how so? 00:20:18 Like Chei or Nagas 00:20:20 In that, for example, spriggans get a huge advantage in many ways, while naga get penalties 00:20:36 maybe 00:20:38 Spriggans are already good for speed-running without getting a large multiplier on top 00:20:40 so either way is sort of problematic 00:20:58 Yeah, I honestly don't think there's a way to arrange this so that there isn't some kink somewhere 00:21:20 Simply not cleaving if you attack an empty space is probably simplest, but I'm not sure I like it, either 00:21:22 I don't really think it should inform a design decision like that, though, since it already affects so many other things 00:21:31 Maybe use normal delay if your cleave actually tries to hit a monster? 00:21:40 that's probably best 00:21:46 So that 'empty space' is redefined as '7 empty spaces' 00:21:56 check for monster presence in the cleaving area, do normal attack speed if there's one there 00:21:59 Yeah 00:22:01 that would change things the least 00:22:08 G-Flex: making nagas score low and spriggans score high would be kind of terrible 00:22:16 imo 00:22:17 elliott: yeah, I see that 00:22:23 G-Flex: you want to patch it? 00:22:29 but yeah, "swing a slow weapon instead of resting to save player turns" seems just as problematic to me as "swing a slow weapon during combat to save player turns" 00:22:47 The latter is much more impractical 00:22:48 the current system is flawed in some ways... I can think of ways to patch around resting with high-delay actions, but (a) I don't think the problem is nearly as bad as you'd have with time-based scoring and (b) the solutions seem basically uglier than the problem 00:22:49 bh: I have never done any programming work for crawl and wouldn't know where to start :P 00:22:59 I mean, I probably /could/ figure it out but I don't know how to even make a patch, really 00:23:04 this cleave thing is obviously a bug though 00:23:06 G-Flex: ok. I'll do it and earn my keep 00:23:11 btw i think you should be able to cleave empty spaces 00:23:11 it's nice that axes are good against invis stuff 00:23:16 yes 00:23:17 it should just take the right amount of time 00:23:18 that's a point 00:23:25 I didn't consider invisible monsters 00:23:29 in fact I would like ctrl+direction to take attack delay for all weapons for a simple reason: it lets you see your current attack delay 00:23:30 you might miss the space it's actually in 00:23:32 without having to find a rat 00:23:36 yes 00:23:56 The thing is that it's such an easy way to speed up resting for speedruns, unfortunately 00:24:33 well the high score may be a naga but the second-highest score is a deep elf and I think the top score's advantage derives more from simply going faster in mundane ways than from exploiting naga regeneration/score turns properties 00:24:53 also if you have a long delay action it's even kind of dangerous 00:25:03 because stuff can enter los and take turns while you're swinging 00:25:13 You need to do it somewhat slow in real-time, yes 00:25:24 well I meant dangerous regardless of real-time 00:25:28 if you are resting then you are not at full hp 00:25:28 imo scoring mechanics are kind of inherently problematic 00:25:35 (Or just put force_mores on every 'comes into sight' thing >.>0 00:25:36 in that they're going to be pretty arbitrary 00:25:37 if you swing for 20 aut and boris enters los and iron shots you then you die 00:25:43 That is a point, I suppose 00:25:47 the thing is that things coming into los doesn't stop you swinging 00:25:57 you are basically paralysed afaik unless I totally misunderstand attack mechanics 00:26:04 No, I think that's right 00:26:08 (well, without any paralysis effects other than not actually being able to act) 00:26:33 Of course, I am not a scorerunner by any means at all, so it would be nice to have an opinion from someone who is 00:26:34 the pathological example of this is cheimoving into los of hellion island 00:26:51 My quickest all-runer is like... 95k turns 00:27:15 I think I won a 3 runer in nearly twice that. 00:27:56 I've only even really 'tried' to speed run once or twice. I don't think I like it much, because it saddens me greatly to leave so much of the dungeon unexplored :P 00:29:24 Yay, I have unbroken it again. I think. 00:30:11 I have messed up a merge involving that one line of code no less than THREE times today, I think 00:32:19 let me just say it's odd that '_untrap_target' has references to cleave 00:33:13 -!- Rofaner has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:41:06 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:42:47 -!- Troglodite has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:48:58 k. This fix should be trivial. 00:52:06 <|amethyst> bh: so that you can cleave with an unoccupied central square 00:52:21 |amethyst: hrm? 00:52:28 <|amethyst> so if you have 00:52:30 <|amethyst> 123 00:52:31 <|amethyst> .@. 00:52:34 <|amethyst> 456 00:52:50 <|amethyst> in order to hit everybody, you'd have to swing at one of the two '.'s 00:53:07 oh. I thought we'd gone with brogue-cleave where it just attacks everyone 00:53:28 <|amethyst> I believe it's still everyone except directly behind you 00:53:38 Assuming no intervening walls 00:53:46 <|amethyst> right, it stops at walls 00:53:58 <|amethyst> direction of the swing (clockwise or counter) is random each turn 00:54:03 <|amethyst> s/turn/attack/ 00:54:14 * elliott had no idea there was an actual swing that varied in directions and wishes there wasn't 00:54:20 well, had no idea originally 00:54:36 I'm surprised that it is. I thought it traced in both directions simultaneously 00:55:38 I'm almost certain I remember discussion on the topic, but I may also have remembered it wrong 00:55:42 ctrl-attacking cleaving is also pretty important against invisible monsters 00:55:57 yeesh. In that case someone should file a bug and I'm going back to the abyss :) 00:56:20 like, clearly the cleave still happens if the monster isn't actually where you think it is 00:57:40 IMO it is simply a bug that ctrl-attacking empty space takes 1.0 time instead of attack delay, regardless of cleave 00:58:04 How far back did this change, anyway? 00:58:10 did what change? 00:58:31 I was fairly certain that attacking empty spaces USED to take the normal attack delay, but was then changed so that it didn't 00:58:34 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:53 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:58:54 hm, I don't remember that but maybe 00:58:57 it sounds easy to fix 00:59:04 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 00:59:06 if so, the only reason why it was changed was because of concerns with scoring 00:59:07 I cannot think of a single reason for the current behaviour, it's inconsistent and inconvenient 00:59:20 where's dpeg when you need him? Anyone know of mythological canine species? 00:59:21 Yeah, I thought it was changed for scoring reasons 00:59:28 elliptic: so fixing this is a pondering hat nerf! 00:59:36 and I don't think that is a good reason to penalize qblade users who are fighting unseen horrors 00:59:38 and such 00:59:42 because it's less good to put it on and walk back and forth to rest 01:00:07 well, I also am in favor of switching to time-based scoring 01:00:27 What about naga and spriggans and such? 01:00:44 (And also motivation to never auto-travel without swiftness, etc.) 01:00:57 DracoOmega: there have been proposals 01:01:15 * elliott is interested in said proposals, since every solution I have thought of/heard has been terrible :P 01:01:30 -!- Senjai has quit [] 01:02:56 one idea is to have a score turn counter, which is incremented by 1.0 by any movement action and the time used for non-movement actions 01:03:12 it seems like ctrl-hitting an unseen horror you can't see takes normal attack delay at least 01:03:19 was scared it would actually override your attack delay always 01:03:21 elliott: only if you guess where it is 01:03:30 which you cannot do reliably with them 01:03:34 elliptic: score turn counter should account for attack delay too, right? 01:03:40 no why 01:03:42 I guess quick blades scoring you lower is a little weird 01:03:49 they wouldn't score you lower 01:03:51 and also it'd just bring back the resting exploit, never mind me 01:03:52 what are you talking about 01:03:54 right I meant... it does currently 01:03:58 because you tab more 01:03:58 yes 01:04:15 except really insignificantly 01:04:27 tell that to my tab finger 01:04:29 because people don't spend very many turns tabbing 01:04:44 Actually, that simple change does sound like it cleanly fixes a lot of the outstanding issues, and issues of other proposals 01:04:49 is it really good that attacking while hasted increases your score 01:05:01 elliott: using haste increases your score 01:05:04 because it means you don't die 01:05:07 Well, you can't be hasted all the time either 01:05:07 so what's the problem 01:05:08 "make movement count as 10 aut for scoring" was basically the original solution I thought of and I remember it being "broken" somehow but now I forget how :( 01:05:42 the main issue with it I see is that some players probably want to see the score turncount 01:05:45 Unlike spamming swiftness for autotravel, you can't spam haste for fewer turns in combat 01:05:58 So it's not nearly so much an issue, I think 01:06:06 and this is going to be confusing/awkward to tell players about 01:06:48 Does the current scoring turn count even matter for anything, then? 01:06:58 <|amethyst> and sounds like it would reintroduce similar issues with optimal healing 01:07:02 Wouldn't this essentially just replace that? 01:07:03 the other issue I can think of is that the original notion of a turncount is still sort of useful 01:07:06 in terms of "how many decisions I have made" 01:07:06 |amethyst: what issues? 01:07:07 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 01:07:17 elliott: Except that most of it comes in big chunks 01:07:19 <|amethyst> e.g. a naga would want to walk around to heal because more aut in fewer score-turns 01:07:24 Pressing 5 is not 100 decisions 01:07:36 Going back to your stash is not several hundred decisions 01:07:44 right this still buffs cheihealing 01:08:08 That's no WORSE than present, though is it? 01:08:19 hm it looks like fixing the ctrl+direction delay thing is either trivial or 15 lines or so depending on whether it should count as a melee attack for action counting purposes 01:08:19 That's basically just the same as present 01:08:33 <|amethyst> it's worse in that it's much less intuitive 01:08:40 oh it's actually 15 lines regardless, since cleave obviously counts as a melee attack 01:08:55 Doesn't feel unintuitive to me. I mean, it only matters if you're trying to optimize score anyway 01:09:04 So the only people who will care are probably people who will be able to understand it 01:09:13 And everyone else can just pay no attention 01:09:13 yes I sort of feel like we shouldn't worry about this sort of exploit at all 01:09:14 <|amethyst> what is the point? 01:09:30 <|amethyst> I mean, why change scoring to use aut rather than player turns? 01:09:37 -!- G-Flex has quit [] 01:09:56 Well, for one thing, it would mean there is 0 reason to have swings at empty spaces take an odd length of time 01:10:03 Also, quickblades would not be oddly worse for scoring 01:10:30 |amethyst: two reasons: first, because we shouldn't be displaying player turns anywhere IMO; second, to prevent a very small number of people from healing with ctrl-dir with an exec axe with no skill 01:11:10 if it isn't clear, I'd sort of prefer just using aut for scoring and not worrying about swiftness 01:11:20 <|amethyst> isn't that exactly the sort of exploit you said we shouldn't worry about? 01:11:32 yes, which is why I stated the other reason first? 01:11:39 <|amethyst> oh, okay 01:12:18 <|amethyst> could score based on number of keypresses 01:12:24 <|amethyst> then all the high scores go to bots :) 01:13:25 <|amethyst> yeah, I guess getting rid of player turn count isn't a bad goal 01:13:36 oh, there was also some more complicated proposal of score turns that would handle the healing while walking thing 01:14:02 but those just get harder to explain to anyone 01:14:08 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:17:00 silly idea 01:17:10 how about make moving cost as much score as hp you regen!! 01:17:18 slow heal 3 = free movement forever 01:18:14 deep dwarf. 01:18:51 yes, they have slow heal 01:18:53 3 01:25:25 Technically ancient zyme are supposed to sicken merely by proximity, so it feels kind of odd that if the player is moving quickly enough, they could move into los of them without giving them an action and thus not be sickened that turn. But doing differently than that may be a bit tricky and possibly unnecessary 01:26:02 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 01:26:43 DracoOmega: what if you give them an aura and have a per-aut-in-aura chance of getting sick? 01:27:10 Except the effect doesn't feel prominant enough to warrent a whole aura with the code and display involved in that 01:27:47 We can just assume that if the player's moving really fast, they just haven't yet felt the effects of their proximity 01:27:51 I think 01:28:08 Since they have only been in its presence for a smaller fraction of time 01:28:16 auras are fun. I think the mechanic of "I see a monster and now I'm sick" is going to annoy people. 01:28:56 Well, sickness is actually more mechanically relevant in the abyss than in a lot of other places 01:29:16 (And that IS what the original design called for fairly directly, as much as I suppose that matters) 01:29:27 -!- odiv has quit [*.net *.split] 01:29:27 -!- ajikeshi has quit [*.net *.split] 01:30:21 How's 'Faithless Hound' for an abyssal dog species? 01:30:50 Faithless? 01:31:26 like Faithful, but not. 01:34:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:34:28 I'd really like to make stuff animate even when not moving. 01:34:38 Like altars in console and stuff. 01:34:48 But I guess that's a big undertaking. 01:37:05 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:30 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:38:49 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 01:41:10 Y'know, I think I'd be twice as productive if recompliation times weren't long enough to wander off and get involved in something else :P 01:41:41 DracoOmega: try porting crawl to a language that compiles faster! 01:42:08 distcc may help with that in certain circumstances 01:42:41 rewrite crawl in lisp imo 01:43:01 BlastHardcheese: I have the start of a roguelike in haskell lying around 01:43:07 I ran into some awful performance issues 01:43:09 DracoOmega: ccache may help 01:43:19 ccache? 01:43:23 ccache 01:43:27 alternatively, do you have multiple cores? 01:43:34 I do 01:43:34 try make -j 01:43:38 it'll run multiple compilers in parallel 01:43:49 Number of cores + 1? Why +1? 01:43:50 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:43:53 I'd use make -j3 except my system really sucks so it always hangs it 01:44:09 DracoOmega: IO-related scheduler inefficiencies usually make a number > cores better than one = cores, but you can play around and see what's fastest 01:45:03 I'll give it a try 01:46:20 Ooo... that does seem to help. Though it DOES kinda lag it 01:47:00 Though that may be the first time I've ever maxed out my cpu for reasons other than something going very wrong 01:47:12 a smaller number will work just fine, of course 01:47:16 Yeah 01:47:28 ccache is http://ccache.samba.org/, I don't know if it works on Windows 01:47:29 I might just use 3 instead of 5 or something :P 01:47:37 <|amethyst> Back in my day, you know what we called lagging the computer? "Using" it. 01:47:42 Haha 01:55:54 |amethyst: back when I was your age the computer had 2mb of RAM and a 2400 baud modem 01:56:14 <|amethyst> that was about when I was getting started 01:56:51 <|amethyst> well, with PCs; I had an apple II clone five or six years before that 01:57:41 |amethyst: do you have any good names for an abyssal dog? 01:58:08 What are these dogs doing, anyway? 01:58:21 DracoOmega: electrocuting you. 01:58:40 I'll distinguish them from sixfirhy. 01:58:52 Shouldn't sixfirhy be called fourfirhy? 01:59:23 <|amethyst> nahnfotyfah 01:59:42 should be called threefirhy 01:59:54 or change glyph to 6 like chrisrc has 02:00:29 life got better when I changed trees to 7 02:01:46 Aren't trees 7 by default? 02:02:00 <|amethyst> not in char_set = unicode 02:02:15 Ah 02:02:27 They a spade or something more tree-like there? 02:02:39 DracoOmega: no they're spades by default 02:02:46 the default is partially unicode 02:02:50 I meant in unicode 02:02:53 Yeah 02:03:05 spades suck. They're wide characters in inconsolata 02:03:17 give me ascii or give me death 02:03:45 <|amethyst> clubs 02:04:40 spades, clubs, same thing 02:04:48 spubs and clades 02:05:03 <|amethyst> I should make all my monster glyphs cyrillic 02:05:15 Latin-1 is where it's at 02:05:32 |amethyst: surely you don't need more ways to get people to not watch your games? you have hugeterm! 02:07:13 <|amethyst> ooh, or georgian 02:09:56 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:10:21 U+2C22 GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA (â°¢) has to be good for *some* monster 02:10:33 (http://benfry.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/spidery-170x205.png) 02:11:11 tentacled starspawn? 02:11:20 four-headed ogre 02:11:43 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:12:30 -!- Villadelfia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:35 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:14:14 Blah, stupid URxvt being annoying about fonts... 02:16:18 Is it intended that Asmodeus's ring of flames trails him rather than leads him (like the player's)? 02:16:46 It is placed BEFORE the point in his turn that he can move, making it often placed surrounding his previous, rather than current, location 02:17:27 that sounds pretty obviously buggy to me 02:19:01 -!- bza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:50 I just wonder if there's a hidden complication with calling it after he moves 02:20:04 I'm just not sure what it would be 02:20:27 <|amethyst> might make monster AI more likely to wander into it 02:20:34 <|amethyst> not that that matters much in this case 02:20:45 유 would be cool to use for orb... 02:21:19 I'm not sure how it would affect monster AI, since it still would happen during HIS turn. Though it's possible he could be dead 02:21:36 <|amethyst> oh, still on his turn 02:21:41 But there's a finalization routine that updates their behavior if they're still alive, so it might make sense for it to happen there 02:21:45 Rather than BEFORE he acts 02:23:52 Basically just cutting the code and pasting it towards the bottom of handle_monster_move instead 02:25:55 <|amethyst> sounds reasonable, assuming no one points out major balance issues or that it breaks something 02:26:19 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 02:26:40 I'm sure there are no balance issues 02:26:47 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:52 I had just wondered if the reason it was earlier was BECAUSE it would break something (though I don't know what) 02:27:35 Well, MarvinPA is the one who added it and it hasn't been touched since, I don't think 02:27:49 So perhaps I'll just mention it to him 02:33:11 I'm honestly amazed at all these little things that I've never noticed while PLAYING the game 02:33:19 And I like to think I'm attentive >.> 02:36:28 -!- st_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:37 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:43 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:20 Hmmm... apparently rN helps protect against stat drain melee from ghost moths 02:37:42 (Well, and other things as well, of course) 02:37:54 that sounds like one of the more relevant things rN doe 02:37:54 s 02:38:04 Yeah, it might. Except I wonder if anyone realizes this? :P 02:39:12 -!- bza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:13 well that is damning with faint praise 02:39:16 -!- morgant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:41:00 And I think ancient zymes are basically useable as-is now. I mean, someone might want to do something else/more with them, but they basically function. Only took like 10% as long as starcursed masses! 02:48:19 -!- bh has quit [] 02:54:55 -!- Pikkle has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:08:23 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:08:31 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:12 how come allies torment now 03:13:21 sort of sucks 03:13:54 I can't imagine summon greater demon is helpful 03:13:56 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:14:22 what like Makhleb summons? They torment? 03:14:39 Makhleb doesn't give you any fiends, the spell does 03:14:58 he can give tormentors can't he? 03:15:03 or no 03:15:30 ??greater servant 03:15:31 greater servant[1/1]: Summons a temporary executioner, green death, blizzard demon, balrug, or cacodemon. Hostility chance is reduced (but never to 0) by invocations skill. Hostile if 1d(20 + Invocations * 3) <= 4 (e.g. 1/5 at 0 skill, 1/11 at 8 skill, 1/17 at 16 skill). 03:16:15 ??lesser servant 03:16:15 lesser servant[1/2]: Summons a temporary orange demon, ynoxinul, neqoxec, hellwing, or smoke demon. Hostility chance is reduced (but never to 0) by invocations skill. Do be warned a neqoxec will cast polymorph, so they can make a dangerous situation a lot worse.. 03:16:24 hmm 03:16:30 well, good for... mummies I guess? 03:17:11 Allies torment? Since when? 03:17:29 since recently I guess 03:17:34 ??when[2] 03:17:35 when[2/2]: trunk 03:18:15 I don't recall this being deliberate. In fact, I recall a discussion where it was mentioned that it was probably good that they didn't do that 03:20:22 It's possible it may have been some change to tracer code? 03:20:30 Because I can't find any commit that mentions this specifically 03:23:13 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:23:51 (Frankly, I can't find an obvious culprit even outside of that) 03:32:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 03:35:01 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:10 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:39:06 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:41:40 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:45:18 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:23 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:48:34 I've reported it, anyways 03:50:09 Allies can torment you (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6445) by st 03:56:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:57:42 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:02:50 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:36 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:17:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:35:28 -!- eurtek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:39:14 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:39:14 -!- bleak- is now known as bleak 04:40:58 -!- bleak` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:50:57 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:14 -!- bza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:42 -!- archl has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:00:03 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1341-gbb9c5e6 05:09:22 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:15:58 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Changing host] 05:26:16 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:20 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:34:44 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:39:17 will the retaliation headbutt of minotaur get stronger/hit better related to Unarmed Combat skill? 05:40:08 -!- tkappleton1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:42:46 sigmund and jessica, 3 spaces apart in D2. ridiculous 05:43:58 can we remove that and i'll add RNG on whether crawl starts to CDO instead? 05:46:42 -!- stenno is now known as GreyStenno 05:46:50 -!- GreyStenno is now known as stenno 05:48:06 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02:36 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:03:48 -!- TacoSundae has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:06:12 -!- mthomson is now known as Elynae 06:16:07 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:18:17 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:48 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 06:22:23 -!- smeea has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:22:30 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:37:33 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:53 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 07:09:29 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:53 -!- Pikkle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:28:16 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Client Quit] 07:30:35 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:31:34 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:37:37 -!- st_ has quit [] 07:44:08 -!- koren has quit [Client Quit] 07:48:33 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:56 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:58 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04:04 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:17:42 Remove orc sorcerers (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6446) by chris 08:17:52 good name 08:18:00 carefully crafted 08:18:09 -!- cybie04 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:18:24 I look forward to a future where people have to actually read things to know what they are 08:18:38 it will help with getting people to actually read messages 08:18:41 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:19:12 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 08:20:54 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:03 also very nice how you put a check into zombieorc1_lemuel but not zombieorc2_lemuel 08:22:10 hah 08:22:31 guess i need to run into the second one too before complaining about it?? 08:22:52 guess you need to make a second patch 08:23:10 the horror 08:25:11 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 08:25:51 -!- Medar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:26:19 HangedMan: done 08:27:08 pff, no sense of humility 08:27:31 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:28 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:39:05 -!- kek has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:40:47 -!- werewolf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:51:24 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: holz hacken, verdammte hacke] 09:18:14 -!- Jackomel has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:24:20 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:26:36 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:28:13 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:23 splashed by acid at 2 tiles distance ? (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6447) by Robsoie 09:30:34 -!- archl has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121129151842]] 09:44:01 -!- Dedagen has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:44:49 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:08 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:52:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:04:28 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:35 -!- GuraKKa is now known as Guest70784 10:14:14 fr merfolk with boots of flight dive into the water automatically so that it isn't usually optimal to spend a turn every single time a fight is near water 10:19:45 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:26:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:20 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:31:47 -!- Mottikins__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:05 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:37:34 -!- hoody has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:14 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:49:40 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:20 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:18 Elyvilon doesn't care about wand of random effects even if they are draining (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6441) by chris 11:06:02 -!- HangedMan has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:09:27 -!- jacobian has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:16:18 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:21 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 11:25:38 -!- rawrmage1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:50 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:27:32 -!- kek has quit [Quit: walk the dog] 11:35:47 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:38 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:58:53 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:02:32 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:48 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:21 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:03 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-1377-g65c2a0b: Lost Hound 10(4 minutes ago, 5 files, 41+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=65c2a0b0b126 12:06:59 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:11:34 <|amethyst> bh: what's up with that change to mons_cast ? 12:12:57 <|amethyst> bh: I'm guessing you were originally going to give Lost Hounds Caniforms 12:23:58 |amethyst: oops. I meant to fix that up before pushing 12:25:32 that was what I was going to do before deciding that wolfspam was probably a bad choice for the abyss 12:27:20 <|amethyst> make them able to see you from ten squares away, call the Hounds of TindaLOS 12:29:06 how about a quotation in the description? 12:29:23 <|amethyst> you mean a quote? 12:29:31 <|amethyst> they're separate from descriptions 12:30:09 where do quotations live? 12:30:19 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-1378-g612c09d: Add Eldritch monsters to the abyssal spawn list. 10(26 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=612c09d88898 12:30:19 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-1379-gd2a1a3a: Tilling Worm mechanic should target foe 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d2a1a3ade54d 12:30:19 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-1380-gb3caf23: Fixup mon-cast 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b3caf233923b 12:30:22 <|amethyst> dat/descript/quotes.txt 12:32:47 |amethyst: "A gateway to a ziggurat" -- I'm git blaming this line :) 12:33:14 -!- ZombieChicken has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:33:23 -!- TacoSundae has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:34:38 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:39 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 12:44:21 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:46 |amethyst: Easy part: Finding a quote from Borges. Hard part: Finding who translated it. 12:49:22 <|amethyst> I can supply a known translation; what's the quote and what is it from? 12:49:39 <|amethyst> If it's a poem, I even have the original Spanish 12:49:56 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:50:45 I found the translator. It's a passage from the Circular Ruins. "The wizard suddenly remembered the words of the god. ..." 12:51:50 <|amethyst> it's "sorceror" in the Hurley translation 12:52:08 <|amethyst> err, "sorcerer" 12:52:22 <|amethyst> I can never spell that correctly, even when I'm looking right at it 12:52:35 Feels like it should end in an 'o', doesn't it? 12:52:46 This version is from the Ficciones translation by Bonner 12:54:14 <|amethyst> ah (I have that one too) 12:54:46 -!- Dedagen has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:55:18 <|amethyst> The James E. Irby version has "magician" 12:55:35 <|amethyst> "wizard" fits best with Crawl probably 12:57:29 <|amethyst> And since it's in _Ficciones_ I have it in Spanish: El mago recordó bruscamente las palabras del dios. Recordó que de todas las criaturas que componen el orbe, el Fuego era la única que sabía que su hijo era un fantasma. 12:57:43 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 12:58:12 -!- Seppucrow has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:59:01 <|amethyst> I guess I could add that in transifex after the next sync after you add the quote 12:59:44 <|amethyst> I'm on the ES team on transifex because I submitted the original for a few other Borges quotes 13:00:23 I bet there are some good lines we could crib from Sabato 13:00:32 crawl-dev, it's argentine literature, essentially. 13:04:24 <|amethyst> I don't actually speak Spanish, so I hope the Spanish team doesn't expect actual work from me 13:05:23 <|amethyst> Someone need to add a quote from Barthe's _Mythologies_ because I have a copy in Polish 13:05:50 <|amethyst> don't speak that either, useful though it might be 13:07:15 <|amethyst> when I was an undergrad (and when I started grad school) the department chair, director of graduate studies, and my advisor were all Polish. My graduate advisor (now the director of undergraduate studies and also my boss) is also Polish 13:07:57 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:11:58 -!- Vizer__ is now known as Vizer 13:13:53 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:15:53 -!- Chirpa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:16:43 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:20:40 perhaps the universe is suggesting that you learn Polish. 13:21:38 |amethyst: https://gitorious.org/crawl/bhickeys-crawl/commit/bb9c5e6d227cf1994fcad6c8bbca4141f28e75c7/diffs/3b2871b78609c8772486641c35af99a2abc0a609 13:21:40 formatting looks ok? 13:22:29 <|amethyst> bh: I'd use a real em dash instead of "--" 13:23:04 unicode. psha. 13:24:21 <|amethyst> You already have unicode quotation marks :P 13:25:52 03bh 07* 0.12-a0-1342-ge96fa9c: Add Borges quote to Staff of Fire 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e96fa9cdac5a 13:27:55 <|amethyst> galehar: If I have a translation for a quote, can I just commit it to the appropriate /quotes.txt or would that cause it to be overwritten at the next sync? 13:29:04 <|amethyst> galehar: I can translate it on transifex instead (I'm on the appropriate team), but not until the original is pushed 13:30:41 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:31:23 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:31:48 <|amethyst> oh, actually 13:32:34 <|amethyst> I guess since the quote was a redirect to previously, I could theoretically submit the translation now 13:36:00 No bouyancy prompt on moving over lava (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6448) by araganzar 13:38:35 -!- namad7 has quit [] 13:40:00 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:14 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzillsofa 13:45:07 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:51:21 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:38 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:58:24 -!- Krag has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:02:24 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:19:51 -!- Luxivar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:26 Abyssal monster implementations (starcursed masses and ancient zymes) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6449) by DracoOmega 14:22:44 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:30:33 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:30:34 -!- Wark- has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:31:48 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:33:37 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:44:04 -!- smeea has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:46:15 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:47:17 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:11 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:23 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:11 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:28 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:37 -!- Concrocotta has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:59 Hello peoples 15:15:06 hello 15:16:01 probably gonna sound stupid, but I want to help with dev work on crawl and I have no clue where to start. I've done C++ programming on Linux and on Windows, but I never used git 15:16:28 also I can't tell what needs done - I looked on the dev wiki and saw a lot of conjecture on mechanics, but no list of "X needs to be programmed" 15:18:05 for setting up git, check out docs/develop/git/quickstart.txt if you have a local copy of crawl 15:18:24 https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/docs/develop/git/quickstart.txt 15:19:23 for finding what needs to be done mantis is a good way to start 15:19:26 it has all the bugs 15:19:33 also some implementables 15:19:42 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php?page_number=1 15:20:01 and yeah, there's no real list of "x needs to be programmed", occasionally the planning page on the wiki gets updated 15:20:10 also interface improvements are always welcome i guess 15:22:36 -!- freefall has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:22:52 interface improvements? 15:23:50 theres a huge list of interface improvement ideas on the wiki 15:24:06 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:09 many of them would be useful, but nobody gets around to it 15:24:54 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:interface_implementables 15:25:09 im not sure how up to date the page is, best to ask here before putting work into something 15:27:22 MarvinPA: well there are the implementables bug reports 15:27:44 right, i meant uh 15:27:50 there is a word 15:28:09 no exhaustive list 15:28:15 phew words are hard 15:28:31 fr nerf words 15:30:37 implementables? 15:30:40 DracoOmega: holy shit, those starcursed masses sound amazing 15:32:07 Concrocotta: ideas that have been approved by a developer, but are not high priority. A formal way of telling the community that it would be nice if someone coded it. 15:32:08 Concrocotta: implementables are mantis items posted by a dev, asking for a patch for some specific feature or other 15:32:22 Where do I find those? 15:32:33 I swear I looked at this mantis thing before 15:32:34 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:50 yes, one rarely forgets such awful interface 15:32:58 change "category" to implementable 15:33:23 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33:23 from any 15:33:44 (then click on the apply filter button) 15:34:44 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:34:53 :O 15:34:58 There's a filter 15:35:01 holy shit 15:36:08 yeah, that's nice... now there's stuff popping up that I never saw before 15:39:17 alefury: we actually have a bunch of abyss unique monsters now :-D 15:39:43 yeah i saw that hound commit, i have no idea what is going on in that branch of yours :/ 15:40:30 abyss uniques? Neat 15:40:33 are apocalypse crabs a thing? 15:40:38 that exists? 15:40:50 inception things 15:41:41 Concrocotta: er rather. There's one abyss unique. There are several monsters that are unique to the abyss. 15:41:50 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:54 if we want an electric gimmick it clearly should be a monster that moves around like lightning 15:42:06 lets call it sixfirhy? 15:42:10 or something like that? 15:42:16 i.e. fires a lightning bolt that bounces and then re-appears at the end of the bolt 15:42:40 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42:44 could be cool for electric golems 15:42:57 combine their blink and bolt attacks 15:43:06 mmm 15:43:08 alefury: :'( 15:43:10 You hate players. 15:43:41 im not sure that would actually make them harder, or more annoying 15:43:51 probably more annoying 15:44:01 they already have blink, though 15:44:16 thus my suggestion for a certain h 15:44:38 oh, lost hounds are electric? 15:45:02 yeah... 15:45:02 gah, this is so confusing 15:45:42 * bh looks guilty 15:46:11 they're living hs that appear only in the abyss, have electric bites, and cast cause fear 15:46:32 they also seem pretty wimpy 15:46:43 bh what do you think of combining bolts and blinking 15:46:50 I've never seen these monsters 15:47:06 they're in a branch 15:47:11 -!- MattyDub has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:47:18 HangedMan: I like it. I would be ambivalent about putting it on electric golems though. They're overwhelmingly murdery 15:47:20 err, the non-crawl type of branch 15:47:45 HangedMan: I can dump the electric. Fast + Fear inducing should be good for the abyss. Fear is bad news there. 15:48:10 well, there's always giant orange brains for fear in abyss 15:48:37 they cast fear? 15:48:44 fear tends to be more annoying then ineffectual, really 15:48:50 erm, effectual 15:49:16 I don't think I've ever been feared by a monster o.o 15:49:44 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:50:15 it has mr checks, eidola almost don't exist and it'd be kind of silly to make them exist by much, giant orange brains have a very fully move set and will usually not get to do much 15:50:25 HangedMan: I can just revert it 15:50:51 I think I've only seen eidola twice 15:51:19 I kind of want eidola to become more of a fast thing with fear so they can be more effectual and then give lost hounds boltblinking 15:51:27 but I'm barely awake 15:52:13 -!- Seppucrow has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:41 What time zone are you in? 15:53:07 boltblinking sounds like something a pokemon would do :) 15:53:53 just eastern american, but lack of sleep has screwed with my sleeping schedules 16:01:50 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:02:52 hahhah 16:03:00 I literally just start to watch mudo and they quit 16:06:02 HangedMan: any other monsters you want? 16:07:30 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:08:06 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:53 bh: curse hearts that spray areas with blood and are constantly bleeding and prone to bleeding when hit that then cast ignite blood, metabolic-englaciating-that-only-gets-reduced-not-blocked-by-rC+ or slow-in-los glacier golems with high hd throw icicle and emergency refridge, spatial maelstrom that converts walls it passes into into spatial vortexes and casts bend space 16:11:17 clearly all absolutely horrible ideas 16:11:57 spatial maelstrom might overlap too much with the tilling worm as a wall eater. I could change the worm to be a wall rearranger 16:12:37 what does the worm even do right now 16:13:10 it explodes adjacent walls into clouds. It more or less suicides when over water/lava 16:14:33 it explodes adjacent liquids into...? 16:14:48 lava -> fire clouds, water -> steam/freezing clouds 16:15:22 and walls? 16:15:24 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:15:35 -!- Namey has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:15:36 most of the time into tloc clouds, rarely into chaos clouds 16:15:50 -!- Hosg has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:17:26 -!- hart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:49 hmm 16:18:52 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:19:21 I don't really have anything substantial about spatial maelstrom besides -bend space bend space bend space -summons vortexes somehow -probably not going to care about walls 16:20:33 are coca-cola-demons getting changed so they always know where you are? 16:20:50 ...cacodemons? 16:21:18 I thought the idea surrounding them was give them back dig alongside bolt of energy and make them smarter about using it 16:21:55 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Changing host] 16:27:43 -!- kek has quit [Quit: gonna suicide, brb] 16:30:38 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ben weg] 16:35:53 -!- Fusha has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:50 -!- stanzillsofa has quit [Quit: bonne nuit à tous] 16:42:18 HangedMan: any thoughts on an abyssal portal vault? I think we'd talked about zones of the abyss that are only cloud generators. Could work for a portal. 16:43:38 bleh 16:55:47 -!- Kenran has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:12 -!- bleak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:29 -!- Guest70784 is now known as GuraKKa 17:05:46 elliott: â°¢ are my corpses (it looks nothing like O in whatever font pango is picking on my system). Not a good idea for a default as it's not in WGL4, but having corpses different from food works great in practice. 17:07:34 HangedMan: about that turning into lightning and reappearing at the end of the bolt idea, this is a good part of what the idea for sixfirhies is. We could at least make their bursty speed more pronounced. 17:08:05 well sixifirhies as is are kind of "good enough" that I don't want to touch them 17:08:50 bh: not sure if having abyssal monsters added randomly to trunk or inception is good. Since they don't depend on the generator rewrite in any way, what about moving them to trunk so they get to see some testing? 17:09:21 well some people feel some things should be dropped out of inception anyway 17:09:26 HangedMan: "better is an enemy of good" doesn't really apply to Crawl 17:10:15 okay, fine, "this kind of gimmick on a monster as 'common' as a 4 sounds excessive and putting it on an abyss monster sounds better for letting people not get tired of it" 17:10:17 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:12 -!- Pthing has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:47 right, because sixfirhies are so common 17:19:07 well okay I just don't want this kind of gimmick all over pan 17:19:26 sixfirhies are fairly common 17:20:06 compared to what, ignacio? 17:20:40 they are pretty frequent in pan and abyss... 17:22:00 imo it'd be less harmful to introduce a new monster than give sixfirhies another gimmick 17:22:15 edlothiol: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6498 17:22:19 edlothiol: please? :D 17:22:33 edlothiol: (Bloax's post) 17:26:00 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:27:23 monqy: to the contrary, adding tons of crap monsters is bad 17:27:54 well we can remove a monster in exchange for this new monster 17:28:02 the new monster would place conservatively 17:28:15 also we've been kind of low on abyss-unique monsters and that's been the whole point of the recent surge of them gimmick monsters 17:28:17 contrast with sixfirhies which don't 17:28:30 ideally a new monster would not be crap :P 17:29:04 I hope mine are not, anyway! 17:30:02 i'd like to at least cherrypick lurking horrors so they can get tested, i guess i'll do that at some point 17:30:08 re new monsters in trunk rather than inceptions 17:30:14 inceptino* 17:30:23 alefury: I had actually already seen that post and am on it ;) 17:30:54 the abyss bot can find only full crashes, not breakage that doesn't abort the game 17:31:15 (tilling worm and cloud traps) 17:31:25 inception* wow i can't type 17:31:38 fixable by removing traps from the abyss, of course 17:34:07 MarvinPA: You added Asmodeus's ring of flames, yes? Is there a reason that it places BEFORE he moves, and thus leaves a ring around his old location, rather than moving WITH him as the player's does? 17:34:42 oh yeah i spotted that in the backlog and forgot to comment 17:35:05 i think i did it that way for no particular reason other than i was copying efreeti 17:36:16 I thought the code for that was elsewhere. Or at least I just didn't notice it 17:37:13 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:37:17 can a christmas mode for webtiles just be a decorated lobby and not actual game changes even if it's santa hat tiles 17:37:57 yaks -> reindeers 17:38:28 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:38:41 Sigmund -> Satan Claus 17:38:53 obvious changes to tree tiles 17:39:33 I -think- there were snowy tree tiles included in some vault submission 17:41:18 I wanted to make an ice cave that opened out into a open battlefield with the skeletons/simulacra of both sides in a forested clearing 17:41:25 too many projects 17:42:18 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:43:35 -!- Rofaner has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:45:09 -!- Chirpa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:51:21 HangedMan: I'm happy to delete whatever you want. I'd rather throw in 50 gimmick monsters and delete 49. 17:52:45 You're more or less incapable of hurting my feelings :) 17:53:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1343-ge91f540: Remove "Are you sure you want to win?". 10(33 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e91f5400eec3 17:53:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1344-g129b971: Properly handle HUP on the mercenary card prompt. 10(20 hours ago, 4 files, 55+ 29-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=129b971fb6ed 17:53:58 for now, kill the bear 17:54:14 I always wondered why the game asked "do you want to win?" 17:54:21 When is the answer ever NO? 17:54:56 well it has very nice symmetry with "do you want to escape?" 17:55:20 that one makes sense anyway, as it's basically asking "Do you want to quit the game wihout playing more" 17:55:34 in which case NO is a common answer to that 17:57:30 like I said, very nice symmetry 17:57:57 how often do you really trigger either of the prompts 17:58:23 I triggered the "sure you want to leave" when I first played, because I wondered what would happen if I went up on lvl 1 17:58:27 after that, never 17:58:33 like I said, 17:58:44 and you'll trigger the "sure you want to win" any time you, well, win 17:59:47 it's a shame that an accidental G< on D:1 will end your game 17:59:52 if you happen to have the orb for some reason 17:59:57 "are you sure you want to win" is cute. was cute. rest in peace. 18:00:11 elliott: forgot to get orb run runes 18:00:11 wait, is it gone 18:00:17 monqy: "Are you sure you want to win?" "No" -> "You lose." 18:00:27 wait, what. 18:01:03 that's what prompted this conversation yes 18:01:38 kilobyte: you are the worst dev 18:02:08 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:02:23 elliott: how quick would the patch be to return it 18:04:02 lol 18:04:04 eye-roll. 18:04:17 bh would do it for an eye roll 18:04:32 kilobyte: can we delete the orb of zot? 18:05:14 remove are you sure you want to win when going up on D:1 by making it happen when you go up on Zot:5 instead 18:05:36 Has anyone actually died after getting the Orb *and* exiting Zot:5? 18:05:47 yes 18:05:48 yes 18:05:48 plenty 18:05:50 even on D:1 18:05:50 I'm sure it has happened 18:05:54 even in shoals 18:06:01 !lm * orb cv>=0.10 !won s=name 18:06:02 8521 milestones for * (orb cv>=0.10 !won s=name): 377x 78291, 178x hyperbolic, 155x mikee, 135x clouded, 120x Stabwound, 98x elliptic, 89x crate, 89x hyperelliptic, 85x jeanjacques, 80x IonFrigate, 77x MarvinPA, 70x theglow, 67x xyblor, 65x Pac, 64x magistern, 64x casmith789, 63x MadDasher, 60x reid, 59x minmay, 58x pivotal, 58x rob, 58x daftfad, 57x itsmu, 54x ebarrett, 53x pointless, 51x Elynae,... 18:06:10 !lm * orb cv>=0.10 !won place!=zot:5 s=name 18:06:11 3 milestones for * (orb cv>=0.10 !won place!=zot:5 s=name): 3x cbus 18:06:14 um 18:06:18 oh 18:06:20 recently there was the death with the stairs in sight 18:06:21 !lm * orb cv>=0.10 !won lg:place!=zot:5 s=name 18:06:23 8374 milestones for * (orb cv>=0.10 !won lg:place!=zot:5 s=name): 374x 78291, 175x hyperbolic, 154x mikee, 135x clouded, 120x Stabwound, 97x elliptic, 89x hyperelliptic, 88x crate, 83x jeanjacques, 80x IonFrigate, 74x MarvinPA, 70x theglow, 65x xyblor, 64x magistern, 64x Pac, 63x MadDasher, 63x casmith789, 60x reid, 58x rob, 58x minmay, 58x daftfad, 57x pivotal, 57x itsmu, 54x ebarrett, 52x pointl... 18:06:28 !lm * orb cv>=0.10 !won lg:place!=zot s=name 18:06:31 8328 milestones for * (orb cv>=0.10 !won lg:place!=zot s=name): 372x 78291, 175x hyperbolic, 154x mikee, 135x clouded, 120x Stabwound, 97x elliptic, 89x hyperelliptic, 88x crate, 83x jeanjacques, 80x IonFrigate, 73x MarvinPA, 70x theglow, 65x xyblor, 64x magistern, 64x Pac, 63x MadDasher, 63x casmith789, 60x reid, 58x rob, 58x minmay, 57x daftfad, 57x pivotal, 57x itsmu, 54x ebarrett, 51x pointles... 18:06:39 oh maybe you need cv>=0.11 there 18:06:42 not sure when orb milestone got fixed 18:13:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:18:46 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:34 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:26 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:44 stone golem (158) | Spd: 7 | HD: 12 | HP: 94-124 | AC/EV: 12/4 | Dam: 28 | 11non-living, 10doors | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 493 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 18:28:44 %??stone golem 18:28:49 earth elemental (07E) | Spd: 6 | HD: 6 | HP: 33-57 | AC/EV: 14/4 | Dam: 40 | 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 84 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 18:28:49 %??earth elemental 18:29:31 iron elemental (10E) | Spd: 6 | HD: 12 | HP: 88-131 | AC/EV: 20/2 | Dam: 40 | 11non-living, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1087 | Sp: iron shot (3d24), slow, metal splinters (3d27) | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 18:29:31 %??iron elemental 18:29:35 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:32:38 -!- Dedagen has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:14 -!- yon2 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:46:16 HangedMan: lightning bolt + blink = ELECTRIC SLIDE 18:46:30 hahaha 18:46:48 also please do my abyss monster version of GOBs for cause fear 18:47:38 Well I got GIT working 18:47:46 and I have pulled the cource 18:47:50 source* 18:47:57 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48:08 Eronarn: what's your version of GOB? 18:48:35 Eronarn: I had used the enum LIGHTNING BLINK. I'll probably just end up cutting the dog as uninteresting 18:49:53 HangedMan: what about making spatial maelstrom have a tloc tornado and making spatial vortexes immune to it the way air elementals are to normal tornado 18:50:01 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:48 Eronarn: 'eh. 18:55:27 is spatial maelstrom written up anywhere? 18:56:08 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:56:36 nope 18:56:54 bh: GOBs: can always see through walls, can always be seen through them. cause fear, fixed version of brain feed that locks out spell slots - both working through walls. maybe one or two other spells. 18:56:57 just a constant idea I've been having 18:57:26 another idea i had was an 'edge of infinity' monster 18:57:33 I'd prefer int-draining to remain a thing and to have spell-lock not be attached to a ton of monsters 18:57:37 just a huge black void that creeps across the screen 18:57:44 HangedMan: it'll probably work better than the worm. Confused and when it hits a wall it summons a spatial vortex? 18:57:49 can't kill it 18:57:53 more like an environmental effect 18:58:18 bh: what does it do when it can't move for vortexes? when there's no space for vortexes? 18:58:30 HangedMan: making brain feed have power would help a lot 18:58:38 I do like it as taking over an area though 18:58:44 HangedMan: damned if I know, you're designing the thing :) 18:58:53 It could absorb/pop any vortex that it hits. 18:58:54 HangedMan: it can swap with vortices 18:59:05 all passable ideas 19:00:06 bh: 'dog but lightning' just sounds like a normal monster, honestly 19:00:10 not a weird abyss thing 19:00:21 eronarn: brain feed has significant power on low-int players, gives a smiting-effect people can ccare about on a bunch of monsters, and what do you even mean help a lot 19:00:56 HangedMan: i mean it would help a lot to address the issue of not wanting to give all brain feeders spell lock 19:01:10 could make spell lock be an antimagic thing instead, though 19:01:24 but then it's less clear how it recovers - regain that much MP? 19:01:39 double that much 19:01:45 sold 19:01:50 brain feed was buffed a little while ago anyway 19:02:20 then again, giving them smite antimagic might be a bit too much like ghost moths 19:02:29 1d3 chance for 1d3 still can mean a lot in numbers or with the constant presence of neqoxecs in e.g. abyss, pan 19:02:52 giving what smite-antimagic? 19:03:02 GOBs (as opposed to just giving them spell lock via brain feed) 19:03:11 oh right 19:03:12 tome has spell lock for all abilities and it works really, really well 19:04:50 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:05:24 -!- rkd has quit [] 19:05:37 bh: did you try black eyes? 19:05:44 Eronarn: nope 19:06:06 do it :P 19:06:14 i don't want to file a ticket until they're a bit more polished 19:10:07 -!- Concrocotta has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 19:12:37 -!- mlg840 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:56 -!- Mottikins__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:14:29 Can a wizard tell me where ranged damage is calculated 19:14:40 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:48 ??ranged combat 19:15:48 ranged combat[1/3]: Nobody understands ranged combat. 19:17:25 mlg840: throw.cc and beam.cc, although there be dragons 19:17:49 it's a part of code that desperately needs to be nuked from the orbit 19:18:12 -!- laloa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:19:42 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-1381-gef33392: Scroll of genocide 10(4 minutes ago, 9 files, 3+ 154-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ef33392e6f69 19:19:44 making ranged combat like melee in that it should be understandable paired directly with "let's make there not be magic numbers for melee and make skill keep mattering more beyond the breakpoints" is a fun pair of dev opinions to pair 19:20:16 I see that as a true dev bh is joining the misdirection brigade 19:20:31 excellent 19:20:44 Where's the misdirection? I cast genocide, didn't I? 19:23:09 well, that commit message sounds outright wrong rather than just tricky 19:24:56 kilobyte: cut me some slack, I'm only just learning to use git. 19:25:04 :p 19:25:21 I guess we should cut the madness 19:25:23 slightly 19:25:51 the best two recent misleading commit messages are "nerf mephitic cloud" and "split enchantments into hexes and charms" imo 19:26:10 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:27:00 wasn't there also the combination of buff and nerf for bone dragons 19:27:09 not so recent i guess 19:27:58 those were actual buff and nerf 19:28:18 elliott: what did they actually do? 19:28:37 speed increase and hp reduction iirc 19:28:38 %git :/Nerf Meph 19:28:39 03|amethyst * 0.11-a0-3103-ga3d4977: Nerf Mephitic Cloud :) 10(5 months ago, 3 files, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a3d49774ac8d 19:28:42 %git :/Split Enchantm 19:28:42 03MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-1320-g121ffb0: Split Enchantments into Hexes and Charms 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=121ffb0d70aa 19:28:42 speed 8 -> 10, then hp dice 8 -> 6 19:28:50 oh did you mean bone dragons 19:28:53 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:29:18 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:39 yeah, the quick succession just made it look like a revert 19:29:50 Useless Animate Skeleton wastes turn/mp (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6450) by wheals 19:29:50 a spell that crashes the gme is powerful indeed 19:30:40 could shamelessly plug for my well-named patch on mantis now but 19:30:51 sadly the commit message is more accurate :( 19:32:31 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:33:09 is it unsafe to use unicode in a monster name? 19:34:08 bh: you should try making a monster that uses combining characters in its glyph 19:34:12 it makes for Fun visual effects 19:34:29 um... no? 19:35:37 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 19:35:40 bh: .des files are loaded as UTF-8, Windows-based editors might have problems with them 19:36:39 I have an ancient patch to downgrade letters to unaccented versions, it hasn't been really needed before 19:39:10 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:39:48 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:40:21 can't seem to find the table, an unbearably verbose one is at http://angband.pl/svn/kbtin/trunk/translit.h which was needed there because writing comments in UTF-8 wasn't a good idea then 19:43:37 -!- hoody has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:51 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 19:51:58 !seen st_ 19:51:58 I last saw st_ at Sat Dec 15 13:37:37 2012 UTC (12h 14m 21s ago) quitting without a message. 19:51:58 I last saw st_ at Sat Dec 15 13:27:36 2012 UTC (12h 24m 22s ago) saying !learn edit oldwon[1] s/DEGl // on ##crawl. 19:52:08 no evilmike and no st_ 19:52:37 anybody want to be the higher vaultmaking authority for me to complain about worm cave using too many spiny worms 19:54:31 HangedMan: tell me how you want maelstroms to work. 20:00:53 casts bend space or maybe blink_all_closer_irresistably, make spatial vortexes when it would bump into a wall so that it rapidly corrupts an area with a visible trail of spatial vortexes, maybe batty but only speed 16 to not just be something people immediately walk away from (or let either form of blink keep people close or something) 20:01:37 I really should learn to compile stuff so I could actually play with whatever drafts you make up 20:02:08 also I wonder what would be a suiting glyph and colour considering rainbow v for spatial vortexes 20:03:54 white/grey v? 20:04:25 twister (15v) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 0/5 | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind, 04napalm | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 20:04:25 %??twister 20:04:30 insubstantial wisp (15v) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 6-18 | AC/EV: 5/20 | Dam: 1206(blink self) | 11non-living, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 80 | Sp: blink | Sz: tiny | Int: plant. 20:04:30 %??insubstantial wisp 20:04:38 oh twisters are elemental right 20:04:42 ...are those different colors? 20:05:00 twisters change between grey and white I guess 20:05:44 Also twisters mostly don't exist 20:06:59 FR: A monster that confuses you when you 'v'-iew it ;) 20:07:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:09:10 if it wasn't for how it could kill things that were banished I'd love twisters to be crazy rare bottom of abyss spawns 20:09:25 although I guess things that were banished aren't at the bottom so 20:10:23 twister (15v) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 0/5 | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind, 04napalm | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 20:10:23 %??twister 20:10:26 ??twister 20:10:26 twister[1/1]: Free-flying {tornado}, fortunately confused and low power. Has 10000 HP, but you'll only ever encounter summoned twisters so you can just abjure it or run away and wait for it to time out. 20:10:50 HangedMan: how about a twister-like-thing that rips up the map? 20:10:51 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:13 mmm 20:13:15 maybe bumping into features randomly blinks the feature 20:13:27 and still spawns that vortex 20:13:28 -!- mlg840 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:22:25 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:28 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:28:35 can we bring back distortion-constriction carry-blinking somehow 20:28:59 as in, if something is constricting you and you blink it you go with it? 20:31:44 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 20:32:10 yes 20:32:19 Well, it might be okay if it was a particular monster's gimmick. Grapple you and blick you away somewhere 20:32:31 presumably not in that exact scenario again since that was horribly crashy 20:33:55 Is there ongoing interest in nerfing ctele? 20:34:05 here 20:34:08 killing, nerfing, same difference 20:35:51 HangedMan: my proposal is to have it carry the risk of generating summon-ish versions of nearby creatures and teleporting them along with you 20:38:15 I do not think that is a reasonable change at all, to be honest 20:38:49 If you're using cTele to teleport INTO a place, it makes no difference at all. And if you're using it to actually escape, it probably makes it MORE dangerous than normal tele and thus fairly pointless 20:39:17 Since a random location is probably safer than a known-safe location with the dangerous stuff probably dragged along with you 20:41:43 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:44:35 My understanding is that the ctele is problematic because it's a guaranteed exit 20:46:10 Well, for various definitions of 'problematic', perhaps. But you don't want to make it MORE dangerous than random tele or there's no point in it existing 20:46:20 People will just use random tele all the time instead 20:46:26 obviously ctele hex 20:46:29 :P 20:46:33 Haha 20:47:01 that could be neat because then you have to choose where you're going to get those summon copies 20:47:02 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 20:47:41 Ha 20:47:48 "Choose your battlefield!" 20:47:56 Clearly new Oka wrath 20:49:21 Why does mgen_data take a non-const actor? 20:53:21 * bh makes apple pie, destroys the universe. 20:53:36 no no now, first you make a universe 20:53:40 then you can make the 20:53:53 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:56:39 -!- kek has quit [Quit: gonna suicide, brb] 21:00:15 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:06 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:04 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:35 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:10:11 HangedMan: what about making the vortex drag features with it as it moves, but not perfectly? 21:10:39 including you, because crashes are awesome 21:10:56 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:05 grr. I regressed boring beetles on inception. 21:12:32 I like effects on walking into walls because it's unique and because it means it doesn't need any sort of aura or los-trickery or anything more complicated in areas with lots of stuff already 21:13:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:52 -!- HangedMan has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:17:21 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:21:20 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:48 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:29:12 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:34:11 HangedMan: still really just a summon spammer, though 21:35:17 -!- wtface has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:34 that's what bend space is for 21:36:52 also it'd summon out of los and it'd summon confused things that just make a place worse and worse to go near while also blocking things instead of directly fighting or exploding or anything 21:40:37 sorry, this just sounds annoying :( 21:40:47 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 21:41:59 and a monster that sees you through terrain to hit you with spell locks isn't? 21:43:10 HangedMan: that sounds terrifying, not annoying 21:43:33 do you know how select people feel about glass 21:43:53 do you know why mangroves stopped being transparent 21:45:11 -!- yobbo has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:17 HangedMan: that is stuff you can't reach, not stuff that pursues you 21:46:16 and you don't necessarily have any way of getting around the wall inbetween what's pursuing you while you get hit over and over 21:47:08 HangedMan: it is meant to make you react to it; this can either be risking not being able to reach it, or it can be running from it 21:47:37 it can't go through walls, also, so it still has to path to you if you run 21:47:58 and then it becomes an immobile without the immobility 21:54:26 now you're just being silly 21:57:42 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:59:47 -!- HangedMan has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:16:26 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1345-gd337936: Constify the actor in mgen_data. 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 7+ 7-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d33793693eaf 22:28:52 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 22:28:54 -!- Crazylemon65 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:31:33 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:31:43 oooh, here's an idea for the space maelstrom thing 22:32:12 in the HL series of games, there are a few scenes where you get teleported around very rapidly to multiple planes 22:33:21 have it be capable of sending you to e.g. pan or d, but only for a few turns, then back into the abyss 22:34:11 but allow leaving its radius when that happens, if you can manage to (it should definitely blink close), so it's a potentially very dangerous abyss exit 22:44:52 <|amethyst> elliott: added default charset of UTF-8 for /rawdata 22:45:13 <|amethyst> elliott: on CAO; on CSZO it's set as the global default charset 22:48:13 -!- Oddtwang has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:40 suggestion: get rid of trowel and replace it with a card that only makes portals, comes in three power levels like the other cards, and can't get more than x numbers of time 22:48:47 i just heard about new trowel works and that's awful even if i hate nemelex 22:49:02 (randcard, like genie) 22:51:52 trowel without Bazaars is quite pointless 22:51:53 |amethyst: thanks 22:52:22 kilobyte: it could be made into a cute summoning card... maybe some of the zotdef stuff 22:52:39 @??diamond obelisk 22:52:39 diamond obelisk (168) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Dam: 20 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind | XP: 15000 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 22:54:03 a bailey is pointless when you have sacrifices, skill and piety for a power 2 card 22:56:06 you can't get a second lab or trove 22:56:57 Zig is just slight convenience for a tiny minority of games 22:57:20 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:24 so we have a whole deck type for just a single bazaar per game 22:57:43 (the rest of Dungeons is pretty pointless) 22:59:09 Water can be handy to drown certain things, albeit fairly rarely 22:59:31 Admittedly, minefield seems essentially never useful and dowsing is kinda marginal 23:01:32 Map and Spade are especially without a purpose 23:01:58 The problem with water is that you pretty much need a stacked deck in order to use it to any effect 23:02:07 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:02:24 Because nothing else is an in-combat thing, so it's not like you'd just draw them against stuff in fights 23:02:59 Wasn't spade removed a while back? 23:04:28 %git :/Spade 23:04:28 03MarvinPA * 0.11-a0-480-g0d996b7: Remove the Spade card, merge the Map and Dowsing cards 10(9 months ago, 2 files, 17+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d996b7d28cd 23:04:42 well, no one noticed :p 23:05:02 I noticed! 23:05:07 (Well mostly I just remembered the commit) 23:05:31 I don't think I've actually used Nemelex since then 23:05:56 non-legendary decks of dungeons are utterly pointless 23:06:04 Yes, basically 23:06:26 I would like a way to make them have a point, though, rather than just removing them. 23:06:37 since water, the only other card with potential use, does hardly anything at lower powers 23:06:56 Surely there's some way to make the theme have effects that are more tactically or strategically relevant 23:07:35 But it may be crippled by the deck mechanic itself if the effects need to be applied in very different ways 23:07:44 <|amethyst> 1. move tomb from escape 23:08:00 <|amethyst> I don't really have a 2. 23:08:15 please not the way Wonders were changed, by inserting an in-combat card to a purely strategic deck 23:08:43 |amethyst: that'd make saccing armour even worse than it currently is 23:09:04 <|amethyst> hm 23:09:07 Also there's the issue that the circumstances under which you'd want that card are so different from the other stuff (even in theory) 23:09:12 idea: what about dropping sacrifice weighting? 23:09:15 That's part of the problem with dungeon manipulations in general, I think 23:09:39 Whereas with destructions and summoning, even if you don't know the EXACT effect you're going to get, you understand the general proper setup for it 23:09:51 ie: destruction is going to hit something 23:10:01 Crusade tends to do nothing 23:10:11 Okay, some small exceptions 23:10:22 But the proper situation for each of the cards is very similar, even if the effects are different 23:10:37 destruction might get Pain which is useless later on, but yeah 23:10:38 But dungeons already has very different useful circumstances for each card 23:10:58 Water is not useful in remotely the same situation that trowel is useful, for example 23:11:06 Or dowsing, etc. 23:11:27 Like, even if the effects were stronger, it might be awkward given that you have no idea whether you're going to get an effect that is even remotely relevant to the current situation 23:11:45 Which is fine for wonders, since that's pretty much entirely strategic and doesn't depend on terrain. Yes, I know, alchemist, but... 23:11:46 common and rare dungeons is something you draw for piety 23:11:47 i feel like nemelex would be a much more fun god if they did this: gives you a deck, gives piety for using it, gives you a new deck whenever you're out, abilities are you cheating at cards and have 'miscast' of neme punishing you. no awful saccing, deck types, symbols, deck management, etc. 23:11:53 all that stuff is horrible 23:12:03 i don't know anyone that actually likes doing that even if they like nemelex 23:12:11 I'd move Alchemist to escape where it belongs 23:12:15 Escape? 23:12:26 or possibly War 23:13:22 if neme really does need more than one kind of deck, and i think this is completely not the case, then just make it tactical and strategic 23:13:43 DracoOmega: decks of escape have a mix of "transport" and "emergency" cards 23:14:07 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:14:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:19 It's probably possible to make dungeons have a grab-bag of useful tactical effects that focus on doing something terrain-based. Would require adding a bunch of new effects though (and changing/removing old ones). I don't know how well-recieved that would be. 23:16:07 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:17 -!- Sprort has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:26 Grinder says, "FISH!" 23:20:30 will someone remove this already 23:21:10 why would you want to remove that 23:21:18 unless you hate everything that is good in the world 23:21:38 Trowel could go as a rare effect in Wonders, perhaps legendary only 23:21:55 preferably with powers 0 and 1 removed 23:21:59 That sounds like a perfectly fine home for it 23:33:20 -!- morgant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:34:49 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:08 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:41:02 -!- ToastyP has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:29 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:43:38 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:44:59 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:48:23 -!- Fusha has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:53:12 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev