00:00:53 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1307-g647e00d (34) 00:03:37 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1307-g647e00d (34) 00:07:24 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:35 -!- Guest13547 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:39 -!- Guest13547 is now known as _dd 00:19:13 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:02 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1307-g647e00d 00:24:02 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:10 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 00:33:17 will 'rooms that are bigger on the inside' confuse players? 00:34:00 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:34:04 confuse pathfinding and stash locations, maybe 00:34:46 Zannick: it's the abyss. 00:35:17 moin moin 00:36:06 can't imagine why http+ssl should give less timeouts than http.. maybe raise your timeout settings? 00:36:14 |amethyst 00:37:04 can't afford more than 300 concurrent connections in apache 00:37:21 bh: well then. 00:38:30 morning in Germany. That means I should probably sleep or something 00:38:43 overrated ;) 00:39:38 Zannick: wouldn't code reviews make crawl so much more fun to work on? 00:39:42 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:40:01 bh: i saw the idea before. fully support it here. 00:40:16 Zannick: I can't tell if you're serious. 00:40:24 :) 00:40:50 i wonder if code reviews would make working on dwarf fortress more fun...? 00:41:04 I have nothing good to say about Dwarf Fortress. 00:41:11 Writing Dwarf Fortress is probably more fun than playing it. 00:41:54 i can say that reading about people playing dwarf fortress is more fun than playing it (so far) 00:43:38 my 'effing dwarf bled to death and the game didn't mention that he was injured until after he was dead. 00:44:13 the solution is more dwarves 00:44:35 clearly the reason md was removed was so we could add more dwarves 00:44:39 crawl fortress 00:45:06 you start your journey with six spriggans and a pet felid 00:47:17 Zannick: the (bad?) argument in favor is suppose there's someone on the other side of the world who wants his or her patched merged. I'd like an easy way to give line comments to someone I'll never be able to talk with in real time 00:47:30 though given the apparent sleep schedules around here, that might not be an issue. 00:47:58 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:01 you can do that in mantis but it's a headache 00:48:41 mantis: good for tracking bugs, awful for tracking code 00:49:07 i mean you'd be grabbing code and quoting it within the comments 00:51:12 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:53:40 -!- Crazylemon65 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:55:43 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:58 -!- bh has quit [Quit: gtfo] 01:07:14 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:15:33 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:24 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Quit: Crazylemon64] 01:20:24 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:51 -!- helsbecter1 is now known as Helsbecter 01:33:34 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:37 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:57 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:19 -!- Pikkle has quit [Client Quit] 01:53:50 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:12:12 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:07 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:22 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:42 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:23:08 kilobyte: can you email me explaining what you mean by "unbreak https?" 02:26:00 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 02:28:28 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:35:13 -!- Pikkle has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:39:22 -!- Bop has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:39:30 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:41:53 <|amethyst> rax: I might have an idea 02:41:58 <|amethyst> oh, no, wait 02:42:10 <|amethyst> we never set up HTTPS webtiles 02:42:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:51 <|amethyst> I guess that could be what he means 03:02:25 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 03:05:39 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 03:17:29 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 03:27:46 -!- archl has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0/20121120062532]] 03:29:48 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:19 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:07 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:43:41 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:50:07 -!- grasida has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:51:33 -!- TacoSundae has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:51:48 -!- vimpulse has joined ##crawl-dev 03:55:46 Hi all. :) lm_tmsg.lua:52[a] allows bazaar bells to toll "a long way away", "distant"ly, or "nearby", but mon-act.cc:2393[b] allows jellies to make only "distant slurping" noises or "slurping" noises. Why? 03:55:50 ^ [a]. http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/dlua/lm_tmsg.lua#line52 03:55:50 ^ [b]. http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc#line2393 03:57:45 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:47 -!- wasd22_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:25 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:40 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:07:20 -!- vimpulse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:32 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 04:10:53 -!- eurtek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:19:54 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:20:33 hmm, what happened to inception? 04:21:02 -!- Kromgart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:42 -!- fernandotakai_ is now known as fernandotakai 04:25:36 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:27:04 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:27:47 i'm bad at git but it sort of looks like the whole branch got discarded and is the same as master now? 04:29:23 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:29 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:36 MarvinPA: bh said he wanted to force-push his version of inception, but you're right, it's just master now, so maybe he made an error 04:32:08 oops :( 04:34:01 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- _dd has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- Senjai has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- MalfermitaKodo has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- odiv has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- neunon has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- Wahaha_ has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- elliott has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- Sose has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- Porost has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:02 -!- kryft has quit [*.net *.split] 04:34:54 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:38:02 -!- Kromgart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:39:22 -!- Wahaha is now known as Wahaha_ 04:40:31 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:01 -!- _dd is now known as Guest52273 04:41:54 -!- Senjai|MovieTime is now known as Senjai 04:41:58 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 04:42:50 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 04:45:16 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:45:25 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:24 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:57:32 |amethyst: to be honest, I was speaking about morgues/crash files; I ran into the HTTPS Everywhere/HTTPS Finder bug on a yet another machine (it's a major ordeal to delete something from their lists as they feed each other) 05:00:03 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1307-g647e00d 05:05:55 -!- Sose has quit [*.net *.split] 05:05:56 -!- kryft has quit [*.net *.split] 05:05:56 -!- Guest52273 has quit [*.net *.split] 05:07:28 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:09:11 -!- Guest52273 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:20 are yred's abilities invocations or evocations? 05:10:18 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [] 05:11:16 invocations 05:13:55 hrmm.. thanks 05:16:27 -!- sum_user has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:18:44 of course the ghost gets bonus action points in the right moment 05:19:21 -!- Crazylemon65 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:20:19 bhbhbh 05:22:32 -!- Calisca has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:23:22 what's the irc nick for the cao admin? 05:25:57 -!- vogonpoet_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:33:56 rex is hosting cao, |amethyst does lots of work as root at the moment, i think 05:36:34 |amethyst: on the scoring pages, the links to trunk cdo games are broken because they link to the "git" folder instead of "trunk", that's easy to fix i guess? 05:37:05 Napkin: thanks 05:39:48 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:40:32 -!- 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-!- aemaet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:57:54 -!- archl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:58:58 -!- ajikeshi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14:37 -!- aemaet_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:22:03 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:29:50 -!- kek has quit [Quit: f00d] 09:36:24 -!- Seppucrow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:43:58 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:46:34 -!- Pthing has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:15 -!- elliott_ is now known as elliott 10:03:38 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:38 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:05 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1308-g1601c0d: Fix a crash when a tentacled starspawn gets displaced in the Abyss. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1601c0d9a4c9 10:08:05 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:08:05 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:48 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 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saw bh at Mon Dec 10 06:48:41 2012 UTC (10h 22m 34s ago) saying mantis: good for tracking bugs, awful for tracking code on ##crawl-dev. 11:11:30 Is Brendan in? 11:13:19 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:14:54 I'm casting Shadow Creatures in Z:5 and it's *awesome* - getting dragons, draconian packs, and enrage moths for them. 11:15:02 What sort of stuff would it summon in Pan? 11:15:05 dpeg: he doesn't seem to be 11:16:11 -!- DracoOmega_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:25 Pikkle: meh demons 11:16:38 dang )= 11:16:47 pretty awesome spell for a 3-rune melee guy though 11:16:54 Pikkle: it's the [almost] only user of Pan's mon-pick 11:16:54 only level 5 and super useful for whole dungeon 11:18:27 it's only Zot where it's brokenly good, but yeah, friendly orbs of fire and electric golems do pack a punch 11:19:13 that's why it has been changed so now summons last 0.00000001 aut 11:19:14 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:20:14 -!- DracoOmega_ is now known as DracoOmega 11:21:37 Yeah I was using Ugly Things most of the game just because they stick around. 11:21:52 And in certain dungeon levels I'd have to cast it like 5 times to get something useful. 11:22:06 But here it Zot it's been delightful - and the Ugly Things get one-shot by most stuff. 11:22:09 also, wrong channel possibly? :P 11:22:23 kilobyte: more like 6.0 aut or so :P (and longer for weaker stuff (single dragons and such)) 11:23:24 OH wrong channel definitely. 11:23:25 I'm sorry y'all. 11:23:34 kilobyte: shall I ask Brendan? 11:23:41 everyone was in favour, right... 11:23:44 dpeg: about what? 11:24:13 oh, if you meant "in" in terms of "has commit rights" then yes, he is :P 11:24:21 ah, so he is 11:24:22 i think elliptic meant he's not around at the moment 11:24:27 yes 11:24:49 So I guess I'll write a rejoice-mail then :) 11:24:54 sorry, not the meaning of "in" I am used to :P 11:25:24 elliptic: where did you think came words like drink-in, sit-in, and sleep-in come from? 11:25:32 erm, s/came// 11:25:41 fantasy-hipster-in 11:26:47 :D 11:33:55 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:22 -!- kek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:26 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:34 -!- mrs has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:07 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 11:42:12 -!- anele has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42:58 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:55:43 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 12:02:52 -!- yon2 has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 12:07:36 -!- kek has quit [Quit: doctor] 12:09:02 hmm, I didn't get any emails about assimilating bmh beforehand, and I assume there were some? 12:09:10 not that I disagree about it 12:09:41 but I got the emails the other times when there was talk of adding another dev, so that's weird 12:10:55 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:57 ??test 12:10:57 summon butterflies[4/4]: 12Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 9Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 4Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 8Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 11Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ7 Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 6Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ6 10Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 12:10:57 Wensley: You have 12 messages. Use !messages to read them. 12:12:19 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:13:46 |amethyst: a hearty huzzah for monster/player symmetry 12:14:14 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:15:01 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Quit: BRB, switching from screen to tmux finally.] 12:16:12 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:44 edlothiol: I guess you're missing from someone's list. Would need an official list for such a purpose... :| 12:20:06 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:21:29 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:33:49 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:36:12 -!- serge_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:43:57 -!- Rofaner has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:49:27 -!- odjn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:51:35 -!- yon2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:27 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:31 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:00:29 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:10:20 <|amethyst> Cryp71c was also omitted 13:11:20 |amethyst: good point. I have no idea how to organise this properly. 13:11:28 Perhaps a hidden wiki page? 13:13:04 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 13:14:23 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 13:18:46 -!- Seppukrow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:08 <|amethyst> hm, that got some rejects 13:22:23 <|amethyst> ah, exim doesn't know I don't have IPv6 connectivity 13:23:35 A private mailing list+ 13:23:36 ? 13:23:43 <|amethyst> yeah 13:23:45 crawl-secret-dev 13:24:34 <|amethyst> sourceforge.net (due's address) didn't want to take the mail 13:25:49 <|amethyst> dpeg: you should have received a mail about the secret list 13:26:10 better make a crawl-secret-secret-dev just in case 13:26:31 <|amethyst> dpeg: I used the union of the addresses kilobyte sent to and the addresses from a previous mail from you 13:27:36 It seems good to have a list for this kind of discussion, and keep the dev list for open dev-stuff. 13:27:41 |amethyst: awesome! 13:27:50 now we finally have a place to discuss in secret how to ruin crawl 13:27:53 now we know where all the real nerfing goes on 13:27:55 <|amethyst> dpeg: the list is completely unmanaged: it's just a line in /etc/aliases 13:28:12 <|amethyst> I want to keep the traffic down, since there are plenty of inactive devs on the list 13:28:29 edlothiol: are you saying outcry would stop you?! :p 13:28:29 edlothiol: step 1: remove mountain dwarves 13:28:43 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:11 <|amethyst> dpeg: if it becomes an issue, I'll consider installing a list manager, but hopefully that won't be necessary 13:29:14 nono, the secret list is for improvements, things we need to hide from the player base 13:29:18 s/we/you 13:29:39 |amethyst: agreed 13:31:06 so who feels like merging in lava orcs 13:31:47 <|amethyst> Eronarn: I bet you can get bh to do it :) 13:32:35 good point 13:32:54 <|amethyst> edlothiol: I'm putting you on the contact list for adding people, since you have an account and can edit /etc/aliases 13:32:56 -!- User__ is now known as Xenobreeder 13:33:00 <|amethyst> edlothiol: just so there's not a SPOF 13:33:01 ok 13:34:27 |amethyst: is bh in there yet? 13:34:33 <|amethyst> oh, not yet :) 13:35:02 <|amethyst> he is now 13:35:57 <|amethyst> was also missing, but just added, ontoclasm and grunt 13:37:30 <|amethyst> and dolorous 13:37:45 |amethyst: do you have jpeg? 13:37:52 <|amethyst> yes 13:38:24 <|amethyst> also rax and Napkin, even though they're not devs, and all the former devs that were on one of the two CC: lists I looked at 13:38:40 great job! 13:38:49 Yes, good initiative 13:41:06 -!- Fear has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:41:22 <|amethyst> !tell absolutego I don't know nothin' 'bout no scoring scripts 13:41:22 |amethyst: OK, I'll let absolutego know. 13:43:04 <|amethyst> !tell absolutego I informed rax though 13:43:04 |amethyst: OK, I'll let absolutego know. 13:43:25 okay I will just email myself 13:43:38 seriously need to make !tell send email 13:43:46 <|amethyst> :) 13:43:52 !tellegram 13:43:54 fr 13:44:03 (it would send you your !tells via telegram) 13:45:53 <|amethyst> rax: btw, just saw another name to add to Henzell's announcement ban 13:46:04 can you email me? :D 13:46:11 I'm about to check out of a hotel so I can't do anything right now 13:46:20 <|amethyst> I'll find and add it 13:46:44 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:21 -!- Sizzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:33 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:37 <|amethyst> rax: oh, it looks like the banned list was missing; I put in the entries Sizzell uses, which are a superset of the old banned list 13:53:47 <|amethyst> rax: if you think something should be removed, feel free 13:54:17 <|amethyst> rax: and let me know so I can unban the corresponding thing on CSZO (might as well keep them consistent) 13:54:40 don't forget Gretell 13:54:50 <|amethyst> I don't think gretell has a banned list 13:55:31 CDO users are far more civilised 13:55:55 makes sense :P 13:57:13 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:49 <|amethyst> the patch is at http://dobrazupa.org/sizzell-badusers.patch if Napkin wants to apply it 13:58:16 thanks 13:58:29 can you make .patch extension not force download? 13:58:33 <|amethyst> Napkin: (oops, it applies to sizzell.pl : you'll have to change that :) 13:58:39 <|amethyst> hm 13:58:54 -!- hangedman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:06 -!- rossi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:59 |amethyst: mods-enabled/mime.conf:AddType text/plain .patch .cfg .dat .map .lst .rc .macro 14:00:11 -!- odiv_ is now known as odiv 14:01:47 <|amethyst> aww, I'd rather not make them text/plain 14:01:57 <|amethyst> I was looking into how to send Content-Disposition headers 14:03:00 gotta go ... see you later 14:03:36 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:04:13 -!- jeremie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:04:22 -!- anele has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:38 -!- Garhauk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:03 -!- phirt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:09 So, I've converted temp mutations over to using xp gain for removal instead of time. Following the earlier suggestion that I do similar for stat loss, are there any things you people feel should be specifically accounted for, regarding this? 14:05:53 -!- hhkb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:53 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:18 -!- hangedman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:19 <|amethyst> Napkin: bah, chrome appears to ignore the Content-Disposition: inline 14:06:24 DracoOmega: make statdeath code not godawful :P 14:06:36 Looking at the relevant code, it seems that currently you cannot recover from any stat losses while sick and the slow healing mutation actually reduces how quickly they heal. Well, I guess I knew the latter in terms of deep dwarves, but hadn't realized that even normal slow healing reduced it 14:07:04 -!- hangedman has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:45 Though I suppose that could be emulated by reducing how much of the xp you get is applied if you kill things while under these effects. But that sort of feels wierd to me 14:08:06 hmm, about that patch - hash %badusers would be way faster than using grep on the array, especially when the list grows 14:08:26 <|amethyst> it's a list of regexps 14:08:46 Like, it would be motivation to wait for sickness to wear off before killing anything, or those kills 'wouldn't count' 14:09:02 <|amethyst> well, it's set to text/plain now but chromium still wants to download it 14:09:05 ontoclasm, why do you need a big tiles project when there's already a big one to do introduced like yesterday 14:09:20 DracoOmega: easy, make sickness wear off from xp too :o 14:09:31 I sort of don't like that idea! 14:09:33 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:47 also make nausea never wear off for DD 14:09:50 <|amethyst> Napkin: also, it doesn't check for changes to the file so requires a restart 14:09:55 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:00 <|amethyst> Napkin: henzell has some code for that that I might nab 14:10:07 DracoOmega: regeneration does things to sickness/nausea too 14:10:10 abuse haunt for infinite sickness for 14:10:11 I like that idea. 14:10:28 Honestly, would anyone have a problem with making sickness just not interfere with stat recovery? 14:10:56 I wouldn't 14:10:59 How often does that even matter? 14:11:07 I mean, I didn't even know that it prevented it, until now 14:11:12 you should make nausea wear off based on xp 14:11:18 -!- Mandevil has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 14:11:20 which will then make nausea annoying enough to remove :) 14:11:40 I think I may leave that obnoxiousness up to someone else, frankly ^^; 14:11:47 make everything wear off based on stairs :p 14:11:50 I almost shuddered at the initial suggestion 14:12:55 Leaving partial slow healing reducing rate of stat restoration isn't so bad as the sickness thing, I think. Since the slow healing ITSELF doesn't just wear off over time. 14:13:07 <|amethyst> oh, well, that was neat 14:13:14 I don't see any reason for slow healing to slow down xp-based stuff 14:13:21 this stuff is really marginal 14:13:35 <|amethyst> since there was one incomplete delivery (it's working now), the mail was still in the queue 14:13:41 I don't see much reason for it, either. But it does currently exist. 14:13:45 I mean, it matters for deep dwarves 14:13:45 -!- ZyrKx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:57 <|amethyst> when I added new people to the list and then the queue was re-run, they got the message 14:13:58 But generally not for anyone else 14:14:01 <|amethyst> was not expecting that 14:14:05 !tell ontoclasm (have fun making a third set of tentacle tiles for starspawn so they don't share tiles with eldritch tentacles) 14:14:05 hangedman: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 14:14:06 well I don't see much reason for DD not to regen stats based on XP either 14:14:12 I guess buffing DD is not the greatest idea though 14:14:18 Well, currently they do not regen stats at all 14:14:20 <|amethyst> anyway, gtg 14:14:31 later 14:15:10 I guess I will probably leave the slow healing modifier in and remove the sickness one 14:16:19 buffing DD, who'd notice 14:16:23 if statregen is tied to exp would one be able to kill out of 0 int? 14:16:32 Getting the rate of recovery to approximate the old one, for normal play, sounds kind of hard, though 14:17:08 Well, if they are sort of similar in overall rate, it would probably be possible, yes. Just like it is possible that you could gain the point back before you die, naturally 14:17:16 Just not that likely 14:17:48 also would this effect late use of sht/cboe/wucad or would it just be a zig thing if that 14:17:56 I mean, maybe if you were surrounding by lots of high xp targets that you could kill quickly 14:18:30 I admit I am more dubious about this than the wretched star change, but it was MarvinPA's suggestion >.> 14:18:37 fun new scenarios 14:19:37 I don't suppose there's any way to parse players to see what the average rate of xp gain is at various parts of the game? :P 14:20:06 well, there's exp by floor 14:20:06 there is actually, if the dumps are not malformed 14:20:12 i.e. that dump option is set 14:20:23 also that 14:20:24 Hmmm.... 14:20:29 for some reason default dumps don't have it though. 14:20:36 (fr fix that and action_counts and vaults) 14:20:45 excess! 14:20:58 <|amethyst> that's "parts of the game" as in "branches" though 14:21:04 <|amethyst> can't tell D:2 from D:27 14:21:11 Oh, boo 14:21:18 <|amethyst> you just get an average over the whole branch 14:21:26 7 hell entry lines a D:27!! 14:21:28 I mean, obviously the xp cost for recover has to be proportional to player level 14:21:32 <|amethyst> maybe you could parse the "gained level" notes 14:21:44 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:21:45 <|amethyst> anyway, I'm off for real now 14:21:53 Maybe I can just ballpark it and it'll work out okay? I mean, it probably doesn't need to be exact, as long as it's not obviously bad 14:22:07 how about just using the branches where stats are an actual issue 14:22:22 like hells, tomb or zig and not much else 14:22:42 Do people even tend to gain a lot of xp in hells? 14:22:47 abyss if you like 14:25:46 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:25:53 -!- hangedman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:26:46 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 14:26:58 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:54 -!- Mandevil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:27 btw i like stat recovery being over xp because it'll be less annoying in zigs! 14:35:10 and more interesting in tomb 14:35:52 Well, I think the level of stat loss in tomb more or less necessitates stat recovery items anyway 14:36:11 Well, I suppose there's always waiting endlessly while undead 14:36:20 (Which is what I gather this is supposed to stop people from doing) 14:36:36 right 14:36:38 there isn't really that much stat drain in tomb if you bypass the tomb:1 long corridor 14:36:51 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:55 you can macro necromutate-waiting 14:37:01 so you can just hold down a key to restore your stats over a billion turns 14:37:06 (I've done this) 14:37:07 -!- Mandevil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:07 necromuwait 14:37:46 While it obviously needs to be proportional to xl in some way, I think it being proportional to how much xp you need for each level is maybe not best 14:38:10 huh? it should just be based on incoming XP gain 14:38:16 No, I mean the cost 14:39:04 Obviously the xp cost for recovering a stat point should be much higher later in the game than early in the game, since you want each character to recover in roughly the same length of gameplay time 14:39:22 don't see how that is obvious 14:39:52 ghouls can already eat meat to regain stat points. if a player really wants to get stat points back, they should have just been a ghoul 14:39:56 Well, unless you're completely changing how stat loss plays, I mean 14:40:26 Because if the cost doesn't scale based on SOMETHING, either earlygame characters will never ever recover stats or lategame characters will recover them instantly 14:40:35 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:46 it doesn't sound good for stat loss to take 893589458934578934958349589345 xp to get rid of if you have done a lot of zigs 14:40:53 Well, no 14:41:09 earlygame chars taking more time (or one consumable) sounds good to me 14:41:28 how often do you lose stats early on on average? 14:41:36 ChrisOelmueller: If it doesn't scale somehow, we're not talking a 'little' more time, but an enormous amount more time 14:42:07 as i said, i'd like to try that 14:42:20 The xp you get from killing one storm dragon could bring you from like, level 1 to 10 on its own 14:42:42 assuming you somehow lost stats on xl 1 (why did that happen) 14:42:44 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:52 how about you just don't regain stat points when you're a lich. how about that. 14:42:54 Okay, maybe not xl 1 14:43:05 But there are earlygame things that cause stat loss 14:43:20 Sickness, quasits, shadows, probably a couple others 14:43:21 and currently those are useless, yes 14:43:40 so has anyone suggested yet just removing stat regain with time without adding in a replacement 14:43:41 !tell hangedman ocs entry vault 14:43:41 Wensley: OK, I'll let hangedman know. 14:43:49 elliptic++ 14:44:04 Hey, I didn't really even have an opinion on this. I was just given a request :P 14:44:23 heh 14:44:32 Since the code could be quite similar to what I just did for temp mutations 14:45:18 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:20 I suppose I sort of feel like not having stats recover on their own may not be a terrible thing, but probably ought to be accompanied by a bit of an increase in stat healing items 14:45:35 and a bit of an increase in quasits 14:46:21 the only real issue with removing natural stat regeneration that I can think of is deterioration mutation, and that mutation can be changed in various ways 14:46:22 and shadowfish 14:46:36 (or removed; I don't think it is the most interesting mutation) 14:46:38 jellyxec 14:46:53 elliptic++ too 14:46:59 what elliptic said 14:47:09 restab potions are pretty common anyway 14:47:18 elliptic: deterioration can just double any stat drain you get from other sources 14:47:20 that was my point, yes 14:47:21 I remain wary 14:47:23 run into ocs -> -16 int 14:47:27 I sort of like Wensley's idea 14:47:51 Perhaps I should just abdicate responsibility for this one and submit the tiny patch for temp muts only. And leave this issue up for people to figure out what they want to do :P 14:48:40 just post your patchfile with MarvinPA as author 14:50:04 Though on the topic of mutations, I would not be adverse to adding/modifying some. And that potion of beneficial mutation really ought to be made exist (in my opinion) 14:50:18 * elliott doesn't like potion of beneficial mutation 14:50:33 what happened to potion of evolution 14:50:36 it was awesome 14:50:46 elliott: Why not? 14:51:10 well I would never quaff it, most good mutations aren't really very good and it makes it harder to cure bad mutations later 14:51:27 ok I probably would quaff it but I wouldn't feel good doing so 14:51:33 especially since it could take away armour slots from you 14:51:33 yeah you would quaff it 14:51:40 Well, it would be better than the potions of mutation that currently exist! 14:51:52 those make quaff-iding really bad 14:51:55 Because really, the mutation game feels like it could be more interesting if they weren't just something you generally avoided entirely 14:52:00 but there are better ideas for mutation potions 14:52:05 like potion of give-me-a-breath-weapon 14:52:17 or potion of give-me-awesome-scales 14:52:25 well there are two gods that will give you interesting and usually good mutations 14:52:28 and one species 14:53:01 Well, this is true. I don't know, I just sort of liked the idea. And it did seem a more interesting potion than the stat gain ones 14:53:57 the whole doubling-every-stat thing would at least make gain X more meaningful, if not interesting 14:54:04 haha 14:54:25 mutation of double all stat effects might actually be fun 14:54:32 I'm also opposed to potion of beneficial mutation/evolution 14:54:47 * elliott is curious as to elliptic's reasons if they differ from his 14:55:09 for one thing, getting good mutations is a pretty special thing that some gods give 14:55:27 (jiyva, nemelex, xom) 14:55:38 you can also s/mutations/healing in there, though 14:55:54 not that I like the idea 14:55:59 ?? 14:56:05 Well, I guess the core difference is that healing is something that's a lot more NECESSARY 14:56:21 honestly I would rather just play a demonspawn 14:56:52 for another reason, crawl doesn't have a notion of "good mutation" currently 14:57:01 and people would argue about it and complain and so on 14:57:05 wait, really 14:57:12 I assumed it'd just be "potion of not-bad mutation" 14:57:16 potion of wild magic 3 14:57:17 Well, the ones that count as 'good' are pretty controversial, yes 14:57:20 -!- GiantBuzzard has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:23 I mean, some of them are kinda not that good 14:57:27 DracoOmega: well it's actually "not bad" in the code I think 14:57:36 yes, it is bad vs not bad 14:57:37 -!- dtsund has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:57:41 I was serious about what I said 14:57:45 -!- GiantBuzzard is now known as dtsund 14:57:45 No 14:57:54 Well, there's RANDOM_GOOD_MUTATION anyway 14:59:17 it wouldn't be hard to have a strict definition of "good mutation", but it would still be a boring potion 14:59:49 like, nobody but rp'ers are going to care if you have +1 ac from fur 15:01:39 well if it only gave you completely unambiguously good mutations then it would suck 15:01:49 I assume the idea was to give you stuff that was at least slightly double-edged 15:01:56 but then it's just unappealing 15:02:24 deterioration is double-edged 15:02:27 Potion of wild magic :P 15:02:30 because, maybe you want to die. 15:02:31 i'd really be interested in why folks haven't been removing !mut then 15:02:44 it just doesn't really seem like a potion effect to me... as I said, we already have the effect other places, and it works fine there... no reason to toss it into a potion 15:02:58 if it's so unequivocally bad, why do some players still like it? 15:03:00 ChrisOelmueller: because it amuses us to watch people quaff it 15:03:12 I have two friends who quaff every !mut they find 15:03:18 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:21 ChrisOelmueller: Probably like most types of gambling, even those that have a negative expected return 15:03:36 People still buy lottery tickets even if they will almost certainly lose 15:03:55 then i don't get why elliott was arguing like that above 15:04:31 and yes, i do quaff !mut under some circumstances but only for highly spoilery reasons 15:04:37 yes I didn't understand what elliott was saying either 15:05:14 I quaff !mut for non-spoilery reasons fairly frequently 15:05:23 those reasons being that I have at least two cure mut potions on hand 15:07:33 ChrisOelmueller: I like mutation potions existing because they make quaff-id worse 15:07:51 I like them existing because they amuse xom 15:07:54 In any case, I think I will leave stat loss recovery alone and just submit this as-is. Then move on to something less controversial, like perhaps more new monsters :P 15:08:23 DracoOmega: I have an entirely uncontroversial new monster for you to help out with 15:08:29 What? 15:08:35 DracoOmega: supmothssss 15:08:52 What needs help with that? 15:08:58 supmoths are entirely uncontroversial now? :P 15:08:58 ??suppression todo 15:09:03 elliott: shoosh 15:09:06 ??todo suppression 15:09:09 wenzell what up 15:09:10 I don't have a page labeled suppression_todo in my learndb. 15:09:10 todo suppression[1/6]: also it is kind of bad how when you press V it prompts for an item before saying you can't evoke 15:09:10 i was wondering that too 15:10:00 supmoths are uncontroversial among reasonable people 15:10:22 proud to be unreasonable 15:10:26 4/5 pennsylvanian dentists agree 15:10:43 Are there ANY items which can be evoked under supression? 15:11:05 DracoOmega: I can't think of any reason for there to be any exception 15:11:30 disc of storms so it's still good in spider zig 15:11:33 I mean, is it used in any case for something non-magical 15:11:34 wait, polearms 15:11:37 Yeah 15:11:39 because evoking polearms 15:11:44 polearm reaching is magical, suppress it 15:11:46 but that's already taken care of in the code 15:11:53 elliott: polearm reaching is terrible, remove it 15:12:09 just give merfolk Long Arms 15:12:42 -!- Seppukrow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:13:24 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Changing host] 15:14:03 honestly I'd be fine with just suppressing evocable polearms out of spite 15:14:13 but then that opens the door for suppressing a lot of things 15:14:18 like jewellery slots 15:14:33 permanently lose jewellery slots upon ever entering a suppression field 15:14:45 re stat recovery i would also be fine with elliptic's suggestion, yeah 15:14:48 actually just make it so that entering a suppression field turns the game into wcrawl 15:14:48 supress forms if you got them from a deck (cards are items) 15:15:01 can you use decks under suppression 15:15:03 with nemelex's invocations 15:15:24 the xp gain was just the first replacement idea i came up with, didn't cross my mind to suggest not replacing it but that is certainly simpler and sounds good :P 15:15:28 elliott: the point is moot, if you enter a suppression field it sets your god = xom 15:18:11 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42:34 -!- helecho has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:17 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Ukončuji] 15:50:07 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 15:50:54 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:55:00 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:56:30 -!- kek has quit [Quit: gonna suicide, brb] 15:56:49 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:12:25 -!- G-Flex has quit [] 16:15:44 well, it would elevate stat drain to the level of rot or malmutation 16:15:54 probably good, because then it would be relevant 16:16:19 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 16:16:22 maybe giving out a few more restab potions would be good though 16:18:24 even more 16:18:25 wow 16:18:26 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:29 what for :o 16:22:38 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ben weg] 16:27:28 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: sofakartoffel] 16:29:53 sometimes you find very few :/ 16:30:15 on the other hand, thats okay 16:30:23 for a moment i was trying to figure out what a re-stab potion would entail 16:30:25 could just change it and see if any further changes are needed 16:32:02 Zannick: lets you get twice the xp from those good stabs 16:33:24 -!- Ghoulish has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:35:13 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 16:40:49 <|amethyst> Zannick: gives your stabs the paralysis brand 16:40:49 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:40:54 <|amethyst> so you can keep on stabbing 16:41:53 like ixhuachatetl? 16:41:53 that's pretty good 16:42:13 i have a weapon in dungeons of dredmor which seems to randomly put my enemy to sleep 16:42:39 or a skill or something, not quite sure 16:42:40 <|amethyst> is it an algebra textbook or something? 16:44:05 -!- Mindiell has quit [Quit: Quitte] 16:50:33 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:50:35 dungeons of dredmor is for hippies who like shitty interface :( 16:50:41 i tried to play it, gave up soon 16:51:09 i spent 11 months not playing it 16:51:31 thats a good first step. why abuse yourself now? 16:51:34 when i returned my save was corrupt such that my items and shop items were replicated all over the floor 16:51:42 and skills were also items on the floor 16:52:21 i think desktop dungeons is finally getting released soon 16:52:25 <|amethyst> "skills were also items on the floor" reminds me of that Pokemon tool-assisted speedrun 16:52:39 im looking forward to that :) 16:53:21 |amethyst: i picked up one and turned it into a lutefisk. my game crashed a turn later. 16:53:26 <|amethyst> you reset the game at just the right point to create a corrupted save, then can arrange your inventory to spell out object code and (through a buffer overflow) execute it 16:53:41 ah, i saw that. quite interesting. 16:54:10 wow 16:54:10 my favorite chrono trigger tas does inventory hacks, but not to create object code 16:55:00 i dont really like speedruns that use bugs (although it is of course within any sensible rules) 16:55:09 <|amethyst> the one I'm talking about isn't really a speedrun, I guess; there's another where you use a similar inventory overflow to overwrite part of the map (or something like that) so that you just have to walk through a door to win 16:55:24 oh yes, that was awesome 16:55:33 http://aurellem.org/vba-clojure/html/total-control.html 16:55:54 <|amethyst> I was about to say, the guy used clojure to script it :) 16:58:53 <|amethyst> http://tasvideos.org/2913S.html is the original one, that is actually a speedrun 17:02:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:38 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:23 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:58 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:07:42 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:46 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:09:07 cool code 17:09:34 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:54 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:32 -!- jeremie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:22:37 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 17:23:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 17:23:47 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23:53 -!- Yxven has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:57 -!- Blazinghand__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:38:27 -!- Pthing has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:29 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:13 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:16 -!- rkd has quit [] 17:44:36 somewhat related: http://taeb-nethack.blogspot.co.uk/2009/03/predicting-and-controlling-nethacks.html 17:45:37 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:47:21 <|amethyst> I wish the person who figured out luck manipulation with the old Crawl RNG would do a writeup about it 17:47:36 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:51:58 -!- TacoSundae has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:53:59 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:54:02 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:54:55 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:48 was that Adeon? 17:55:59 the oldd TAEB stuff rocked 18:01:31 -!- morgajel_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:03:06 -!- Blazinghand__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:04:04 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:06:28 -!- Seppukrow has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:08:20 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:12:56 -!- lexackson has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:58 yes, whoever fixed crawl's rng so that it's not as exploitable as nethack's should be immediately dismissed from devhood 18:13:13 haha 18:13:13 bh == shortest dev tenure ever 18:13:44 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:14:44 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:15:32 03galehar 07* 0.12-a0-1309-ge1dbd5f: Android: automatically build signed package if ant.properties is present. 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 11+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e1dbd5fd2bc3 18:15:32 -!- kek has quit [Quit: gonna suicide, brb] 18:18:03 -!- Jackomel has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:18:12 -!- Guest52273 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:26:00 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:31:05 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:28 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:34 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:55 you know, if more potions of restore abilities are going to be added to comepnsate for removing natural stat regeneration, there was this one branch that had restore abilities sources as a major part of the loot 18:35:56 HangedMan: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:36:06 can't remember the name of it though 18:37:57 HangedMan: it probably wasn't very important then 18:37:58 ha ha ha 18:39:14 -!- Crazylemon65 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:32 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:26 HangedMan: haha 18:47:52 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:47:57 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:51:46 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:54:14 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:21 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:55 ??attack delay 18:56:55 attack delay[1/7]: Attack delay is 10 time units for a weapon with base speed 100%. Every 2 levels of weapon skill lower the delay by 1 unit. 18:57:06 ??attack delay[2] 18:57:06 attack delay[2/7]: A weapon's minimum delay is half of its base delay (rounded down) but no more than 7 (5 for sabres). For example, a club (base delay 13) has minimum delay 6, while an executioner's axe (base delay 20) has minimum delay 7. 18:58:21 ??attack delay[3] 18:58:21 min delay[1/3]: Min delay for a melee weapon is min(7, floor(base delay / 2)), or 5 for a sabre. To achieve min delay, you need your weapon skill to be at least max(base delay, 2*base delay - 14), plus 1 if odd, or 14 skill for a sabre. 19:06:49 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:08:02 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:10:47 -!- yon2 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:12:20 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:14:26 -!- lexackson has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:18 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:27:04 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 19:29:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:29 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:58 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 19:40:07 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:19 -!- MattyDub has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:01:45 -!- domiryuu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:46 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:20 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:24 -!- HangedMan has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:30:11 -!- remyroy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:30:42 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:21 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:35 !messages 20:33:35 (1/1) MarvinPA said (15h 56m 48s ago): <+MarvinPA> i'm bad at git but it sort of looks like the whole [inception] branch got discarded and is the same as master now? <+edlothiol> MarvinPA: bh said he wanted to force-push his version of inception, but you're right, it's just master now, so maybe he made an error 20:33:47 fuck. 20:34:36 -!- Foom_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:34:40 bh: congrats on devhood! 20:34:47 Wensley: thanks. I broke the universe. 20:34:54 also I guess congrats on being terrible at git! :) 20:35:35 I ran `git push --force gs inception` 20:35:45 where gs is gitorious crawl 20:36:25 but you were on the master branch? 20:37:01 no 20:38:43 in the intervening 15 hours has someone played adult or is the mess still there? 20:40:47 doesn't look like it. 20:41:12 ...I guess inception got merged. 20:41:35 What? 20:42:09 DracoOmega: I screwed up and pushed it to master. 20:42:32 Seriously? How has no one managed to notice this? 20:43:00 Marvin noticed 20:43:28 I don't see the commits for it in master. At least at the moment 20:43:48 -!- Flyingpants has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:44:07 https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/c523b2fb21d0ea2da507f5d0095642167cc9d1b2/diffs/8ad75254abc1fc1c5b85976c4d47077d2f09eab6 20:44:32 !tell MarvinPA I'm worse at Git. That was a mistake. 20:44:32 bh: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know. 20:44:36 That just gives "This Git object is too large to be displayed in the browser Consider cloning the repository locally and look at the object there " 20:45:03 But seriously, I just pulled master a couple hours ago and I'm pretty sure it's not in there 20:45:57 Whatever you did to the inception branch doesn't seem to have spilled over unless I'm somehow missing something 20:47:21 oh. I'm on crack maybe 20:47:34 it looks like I may have just killed the gitorious inception branch :) 20:47:59 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:02 Yes, I do think that's what MarvinPA pointed out earlier. At least to my understanding 20:48:18 That you basically overwrote the inception branch with master, somehow 20:48:27 (I do hope there's an easy way to fix that ^^; ) 20:49:14 my gitorious branch should be fine 20:49:57 https://gitorious.org/~bhickey/crawl/bhickeys-crawl/commits/inception 20:51:17 Ah, yes 20:52:34 <|amethyst> %git inception 20:52:34 03dolorous * 0.12-a0-1307-g647e00d: Add wording and punctuation fixes. 10(22 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=647e00d4daf0 20:53:03 |amethyst: how do I unbung this? 20:53:21 <|amethyst> here's what I'm about to do 20:53:28 <|amethyst> or I guess you can do it 20:55:43 <|amethyst> git fetch --force git://gitorious.org/~bhickey/crawl/bhickeys-crawl.git inception:inception 20:55:57 <|amethyst> that updates your local inception branch from your repository 20:56:11 <|amethyst> then git push --force origin inception:inception 20:56:16 I'm on a non-bare repo 20:56:54 that gitorious branch is missing commits 20:56:54 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:57:13 from inception pre-being overwritten, that is 20:57:28 MarvinPA: do you have a non-overwritten copy? 20:57:41 let me check my VM. 20:57:43 i think so, yeah 20:58:28 * bh sits in the corner. 20:59:21 DracoOmega: can you set a name in your git config other than 'a'? 20:59:35 I thought it was set to DracoOmega? 20:59:58 <|amethyst> DracoOmega 21:00:43 -!- Seppukrow has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:44 Yes, I probably should give it a real email 21:00:48 hm, i think 9925741d5fd6 and 4cd839f733d are the only missing commits? i guess i should fetch bhickey-inception and compare it to my inception somehow 21:00:58 DracoOmega: if you can handle the complaints! 21:01:03 Haha 21:01:22 Well, I didn't have one that I was entirely comfortable distributing openly on the internet! :P 21:01:25 But I can fix that 21:01:36 I just gave git a placeholder to make it shut up, while I worked 21:01:50 just make a 'burner' address and forward from it 21:01:59 Burner? 21:02:25 an address you can throw out if it gets all spammy. 21:02:40 Oh, yeah. Well, that's sort of what I meant 21:02:54 I just stuck that in there when git asked, since I didn't feel like bothering at the time. And then, well, never really thought about it again 21:03:04 <|amethyst> If you insist on using an invalid address, make it one that's less likely to collide with someone else's 21:03:18 <|amethyst> DracoOmega@no-email for example 21:03:59 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:04:09 <|amethyst> %git a7cafaf 21:04:09 03DracoOmega * 0.12-a0-1300-ga7cafaf: Fix starspawn leaving their tentacles behind when they fall down a shaft. 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a7cafaf53d01 21:04:54 No, I can get a real one for it. That's not a problem. 21:05:00 <|amethyst> well, at least chei shows the name (the CIA hook would have shown that as "a *") 21:05:12 I just never got around to it, and then forgot about it entirely 21:07:21 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 21:08:26 |amethyst: you need .invalid :P 21:08:35 |amethyst: at least a* gets you where you need to go 21:09:45 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: is 4cd839f733d supposed to be the latest? 21:10:14 Can this be changed retroactively, or would that be a bad thing? 21:10:44 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: not really, but I can set up Chei's .mailmap so you're considered the same person 21:11:32 My apologies, then, if this has been an actual issue for someone =/ 21:12:29 doubtful that it has 21:14:25 so does anyone here understand how mon->target works enough to know whether the comment on lines 508 21:14:28 <|amethyst> MarvinPA 4cd839f (previous origin/inception) has a few fixes by marvinpa that are missing 21:14:42 -513 of mon-behv.cc is actually still accurate? 21:14:43 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: 4cd839f (previous origin/inception) has a few fixes by you that are missing from bhickeys-crawl 21:15:33 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: but bhickeys-crawl/inception has the Tilling Worm commit that's missing from old origin/inception 21:15:51 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: they have a common ancestor at 3fcea80b 21:16:01 -!- johnstein has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 21:16:20 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 21:16:36 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: and the MRCA of that with master is 376ddfc04 21:16:52 specifically, this "only for a few moves (smell and intuition only go so far)" doesn't really agree with my observations as a player 21:17:06 <|amethyst> bh: I'll reset origin/inception back to its old state 21:17:17 |amethyst: thanks 21:17:21 -!- kek has quit [Quit: gonna suicide, brb] 21:17:27 I'll learn to use git properly. 21:17:27 <|amethyst> bh: should I also go ahead and rebase the tilling worm commit on top of that? 21:17:46 sure. 21:19:17 elliptic: That's a good point. Monsters that get teleported away do seem kind of extra good at finding you again, no? 21:21:29 <|amethyst> bh: I'm assuming the bit where it removes _abyss_rarity() isn't supposed to be there 21:21:38 I don't know exactly when mon->target gets reset other than right at this comment 21:21:56 |amethyst: it probably is supposed to be there. I undid all the bs mon-pick code I'd written 21:21:58 I may be misunderstanding, but it looks like those 'few turns' are actually 50-150 turns for a normal intelligence monster 21:22:15 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:20 DracoOmega: where is that set? 21:22:36 <|amethyst> bh: it was only removing the definition, not the calls 21:22:44 567-582 of mon-behv 21:22:47 oh. That's comical. 21:23:04 And those are turns, not aut 21:23:16 Like, actual monster actions 21:23:33 elliptic: kilobyte says mon->target is always the player by default I think? 21:24:03 oh, I see 21:24:27 hm, I feel like we should change something here 21:25:06 That this seems kinda long to have clairvoyance on the player? 21:25:11 yes 21:25:23 -!- TacoSundae has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:25:25 wouldn't that make go upstairs -> press 5 until they forget about you better 21:25:40 elliott: ? 21:26:08 <|amethyst> bh: ohh... you had other commits that I didn't see 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-805-g97fedff: Abyss Vaults 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 86+ 123-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=97fedff1a279 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-806-gbed9dc8: Lurking Horror 10(3 months ago, 7 files, 40+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bed9dc828327 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-807-g68d7747: Abyssal portals. 10(3 months ago, 9 files, 24+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=68d77479d129 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-808-g8bcd6a9: The 27 levels of the abyss 10(3 months ago, 4 files, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8bcd6a9c072f 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-809-g1f3b4bf: Simplify Abyssal rune rolling. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 9+ 35-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1f3b4bf4f167 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-810-gbe212ec: Slowly scale rune chance with depth 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=be212ecbcb52 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-811-g00a7bcf: Skeletal Warriors and the Abyss 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=00a7bcf245e9 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-812-g408a809: Message fixup 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=408a8099759a 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-813-g11126ef: Remove abyss room generation 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 38-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=11126ef2f3ed 21:26:28 03bh 07[inception] * 0.12-a0-814-gffe760b: Abyssal Stair Chance 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ffe760b355d5 21:26:28 ... and 57 more commits 21:26:29 elliott: I'm not sure it would affect that much at all, would it? 21:26:29 well if you want monsters to forget where you are 21:26:33 I doubt that offlevel time matters for this (but I could be wrong), but I think you are confusing this with the thing where monsters will fall asleep again if you spend a lot of time offlevel 21:26:50 I was thinking about them wandering in general 21:26:51 oh boy 21:27:04 But they don't wander in this way while off-level anyway, I think 21:27:08 yeah 21:27:10 fair enough then 21:27:20 <|amethyst> bh: yeah, I think I missed some commits 21:27:52 mainly it just bothers me that when you teleport away or go to different stairs, monsters will often come directly to you 21:28:08 <|amethyst> okay, how about instead I pull bh's branch and merge marvinpa's changes 21:28:18 Yeah, that does seem like they shouldn't do that 21:28:50 sorry, was afk for a bit 21:28:56 but yeah what amethyst said sounds sensible 21:28:57 would this fix your bia leading boris to you if you tele away from them 21:28:59 due to summon nerf 21:29:03 because if so 21:29:04 I am in favour 21:29:08 Haha 21:29:17 -!- shmeals is now known as wheals 21:29:21 I am not sure it affects friendlies 21:29:21 elliott: well the point is that currently they don't even need to lead boris to you 21:29:25 Yeah 21:29:29 <|amethyst> preemptively shutting up Chei... 21:29:50 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:50 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 21:29:50 definitely didn't seem like a regular tele 21:29:50 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO is back, in time for tournament play! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 21:29:51 because he will know where you are as soon as he steps on the square where he last saw you, if I understand this 21:30:08 <|amethyst> bh: ok, just pushed 5606f3f to origin/inception . It is based on your tilling worm commit, with marvinpa's two commits on top of that 21:30:15 (unless you passed the stealth check, which is bad because it only checks skill and not actual stealth, but that is another matter) 21:30:17 thanks 21:30:21 I'll try not to bungle things again 21:30:38 And, of course, stealth checks make no sense if you teleported out 21:31:15 This does not seem like a thing stealth should help with 21:31:37 yeah, the stealth check stuff is designed for the common situation in which you duck around a couple of corners from a pursuing monster 21:31:44 Yeah 21:32:06 I wonder how much better things would be if we just decreased the foe_memory numbers by a lot 21:32:26 I imagine that would mostly fix it on its own 21:32:40 Except if you happen to teleport and land neary 21:32:45 <|amethyst> bh: ohh 21:32:45 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:32:51 hm? 21:32:51 <|amethyst> bh: I think I see the real problem 21:33:01 Maybe the player teleporting should reset foe_memory? 21:33:13 <|amethyst> bh: you have in the history of your commit ed1d3a9171 "license cleanup" 21:33:33 DracoOmega: that's a bit strange since the monster might not have even seen the teleport 21:33:55 maybe the clairvoyance should only work if the player is still fairly close to the monster? 21:33:57 <|amethyst> bh: but in master that's 2f20adee2 21:33:59 Well, the reason they know where you are, after you're out of sight, is they're supposed to be using intuition or hearing your footsteps or something, yes? 21:34:20 Which they shouldn't be able to do if you teleported. You didn't leave a trail behind you 21:34:48 I think it is actually supposed to be a hack to replace good AI :P 21:34:54 <|amethyst> bh: that might cause problems when you eventually merge ed1d3a917 21:34:54 Well, that too 21:35:25 <|amethyst> bh: oh, it already was merged? 21:35:39 <|amethyst> bh: so the commit appears twice in your history 21:35:44 dah 21:36:05 What problems in actual in-game behavior would be caused by resetting foe_memory on a teleport? I mean, monsters would be less able to find you after doing so, but that's also part of the intent. Is there any cases where this would cause things to look 'odd' to a player, though? 21:36:21 <|amethyst> bh: I guess it doesn't hurt too much, and you've already resolved it, so 21:37:11 <|amethyst> bh: but remember to delete the copy if you decide rebase on top of master (rebase -i will let you do that) 21:37:19 would this ruin hypothetical cacodemon dig 21:37:20 <|amethyst> s/decide/decide to/ 21:37:23 v. v. v. important question 21:37:28 Ruin how? 21:37:34 would they dig to you properly 21:37:40 DracoOmega: I'm not sure, it might be a fine solution... it just feels a little inelegant to me I guess 21:38:01 elliott: why not? they wouldn't dig to you properly after you teleport, but that's an intended change 21:38:12 cacodemon dig? Like they'd always know where you are and hunt you down? 21:38:13 I sort of understand you, but if the whole thing is sort of a hacky solution to AI in the first place.... 21:38:37 elliptic: that sounds worse than cacodemons that dig to you post-tele :P 21:38:55 You could always special-case a monster to never forget about you! 21:38:59 <|amethyst> there could be a "isn't disoriented by teleports" flag 21:39:08 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 21:39:09 <|amethyst> like what DracoOmega said but less extreme 21:39:54 I suppose popping down different stairs should also cause monsters to lose track of you, if teleporting would 21:40:03 yes 21:40:34 DracoOmega: possibly I'd be happier about this solution if I could think of a nice way of implementing it, too :) 21:41:01 Besides iterating through all monsters and setting foe_memory to zero when you teleport? 21:41:02 |amethyst: I should be at 647e00d4? 21:41:46 <|amethyst> bh: 5606f3f79 21:42:05 <|amethyst> bh: the one you mentioned is the one that you pushed that is just master - a few commits 21:42:08 <|amethyst> %git 647e00d4 21:42:08 03dolorous * 0.12-a0-1307-g647e00d: Add wording and punctuation fixes. 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=647e00d4daf0 21:42:15 <|amethyst> %git 5606f3f79 21:42:16 03MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-1208-g5606f3f: Give apocalypse crabs a casting message (cherry picked from commit 4cd839f733d3f5a1b7d276aa6f8f5ac3d0bd1e59) 10(6 weeks ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5606f3f79424 21:43:35 |amethyst: got it -- fetch --all, reset hard 21:44:07 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:45:31 <|amethyst> bh: I'm going to try rebasing it to latest master 21:45:43 k 21:46:05 DracoOmega: handling stairs correctly also seems a bit annoying 21:46:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 21:46:59 Well, entering a level has to load all monsters into memory anyway, yes? Can't it just zero foe_memory as it does so? If some of them can still see you, it should get set correctly when they get a turn anyway, right? 21:47:16 <|amethyst> wow, that was easy 21:47:17 I admit, this is part of the codebase that I've never really looked at, but.... 21:47:23 <|amethyst> two conflicts and that's all 21:47:57 DracoOmega: well, I mean that you probably want it to only reset foe_memory if you actually came back to the level using different stairs 21:48:12 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 21:48:12 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 21:48:12 Oh yeah 21:48:12 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO is back, in time for tournament play! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 21:48:56 Use a map marker? (I admit I don't know quite what they do or how they work or if that makes sense here) 21:49:15 obviously this is solvable, I am just a lazy coder :) 21:49:19 Haha 21:49:34 -!- Kellhus_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:49:39 <|amethyst> bh: okay, just pushed 4784d7f which is based on latest master (0.12-a0-1372-g4784d7f) 21:49:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:49:48 <|amethyst> bh: it's another force push 21:50:03 * bh hangs his head in shame 21:50:21 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 21:51:00 <|amethyst> bh: I haven't compiled it or anything :) Also, your inception saves will break because the minor version numbers changed (there has been a minor tag since your last merge) 21:51:42 <|amethyst> bh: If you're interested, what I did to fix everything: 21:51:55 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 21:52:13 Okay, map markers look kinda unnecessarily complicated for this, maybe 21:52:37 <|amethyst> bh: first, to get your latest stuff in my local branch, I did git fetch --force git://gitorious.org/~bhickey/crawl/bhickeys-crawl.git inception:inception 21:53:04 <|amethyst> bh: then I cherry-picked in the two commits MarvinPA mentioned that had been in old origin/inception but not in your repo 21:53:16 <|amethyst> bh: then did git push --force origin inception:inception 21:53:51 <|amethyst> bh: next, the rebasing: In the inception branch (with marvinpa's commits on top of yours) I did git rebase -i master 21:54:07 <|amethyst> bh: in the editor I removed that duplicate license commit 21:54:18 Oh, here's an easy solution to the stairs thing, I think 21:54:41 Wait, no. Nevermind. 21:55:18 <|amethyst> bh: then save and quit, watch it spin. Twice it reports a conflict, so git status to see which file it is, edit that file to fix the conflict, git add the file, and git rebase --continue 21:55:30 That would only work if they SAW you take the stairs in question, and they may not have (but have still been in close pursuit) 21:56:02 <|amethyst> bh: In one case it was your new minor tags conflicting with the uncancellables minor tag; in the other it was warwick's enum conflicting with starspawns' 21:56:10 ha :) 21:56:12 <|amethyst> bh: in both cases, I kept both copies, with yours later 21:56:31 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:33 <|amethyst> finally, git push --force origin inception:inception again 21:56:51 <|amethyst> Of course, you should never use --force with public branches :) 21:57:24 sound advice 21:57:54 <|amethyst> and even on private ones should be careful; it would have been easy to miss marvinpa's commits for example, had he not mentioned them in channel 21:58:12 <|amethyst> fortunately they're in the reflog but still 21:59:07 <|amethyst> bh: another thing you can do with rebase -i is squash multiple commits together 21:59:26 |amethyst: I feel dirty about doing that. 21:59:54 -!- Seppukrow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:07 <|amethyst> don't overdo it of course 22:00:16 back in ~30 22:00:52 <|amethyst> but if you're going to be rebasing anyway, I think squashing commits can help to make the history easier to understand and work with 22:01:30 <|amethyst> e.g. there's no reason to keep around a typo fix as a separate commit, if the typoed version was never publicly released 22:01:58 <|amethyst> no one's ever going to want to pull/merge/cherry-pick the typoed commit without also getting the fix 22:02:03 <|amethyst> so it makes sense to merge them 22:02:25 <|amethyst> once it's public, of course, your hands are tied 22:02:44 if only all devs would agree there 22:03:23 <|amethyst> I only remember a force commit to master twice in the past year, both times for pretty good reasons 22:04:02 twice a year is quite a lot 22:04:39 <|amethyst> I have no idea if that's typical for crawl 22:05:38 <|amethyst> once it was to undo an outside contribution with a merge history like a french new novel (the past several hundred commits each appeared five or six times) 22:06:26 <|amethyst> things like that are why I'm ambivalent about automatically-tracked merge requests 22:07:34 I don't remember merging anything non-trivial without at least minor changes 22:08:09 <|amethyst> in the more recent case, I think the force update could have been avoided 22:08:56 <|amethyst> in the end, the old HEAD is in our history now, so I guess in hindsight it could have been avoided 22:10:27 you mean, Grunt's monster spells and abilities? They're not in the history. 22:11:03 DracoOmega: by the way, speaking of things that stealth skill affects that it shouldn't, it also affects the chance that a monster decides to shout 22:11:21 (also, I was sure I'll end up cherry-picking most of them, but it turns even bits like Toxic Radiance need to be reimplemented from scratch) 22:11:36 elliott: Oh dear 22:11:41 Um, I mean elliptic 22:11:42 couldn't the monster spell commits have just been reverted? not sure what a rebase has to do with them 22:12:22 elliott: yeah; it would be a massive revert, though 22:12:38 and I'm not really sure how much making the chance of shout fixed would change balance 22:12:50 Yeah.... 22:13:10 I'm trying to wrap my head around the code that handles level transitions now, to see if there's an easy/obvious way to mark stairs last taken 22:13:19 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1310-gaafd706: Re-add parts of ring of flight's description. 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aafd7063fd1a 22:13:19 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1311-gdc4ce48: Updates for .pl item descs. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 23+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dc4ce480e1d1 22:13:22 It looks a bit more complex than anticipated 22:18:21 03|amethyst 07* 0.12-a0-1312-gdb8d827: Add a new-developer instruction. 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=db8d827add34 22:19:20 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 22:19:21 Wait, it looks like the position that the player last left a level from is ALREADY tracked? 22:19:54 elliptic: spen can take a nerf surely 22:20:10 elliott: but can muen? 22:20:20 (yes) 22:20:23 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:20:25 elliptic: isn't nerfing mummies the standard practice 22:20:30 yes 22:20:53 I need to choose an amount of stealth skill to fix the chance at, though 22:21:20 how about 0 22:21:32 monsters seem to shout reasonably without any stealth, it's not like they do it all the time 22:21:43 -!- odjn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:21:44 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 22:21:55 doesn't it depend on if you fire something at them to wake them or not 22:22:38 yeah there is some strange stuff going on there 22:24:12 it sort of looks like monsters normally always shout when they see you at 0 stealth, but maybe I'm missing something 22:24:39 (and in general you get a stealth skill / 30 chance of preventing the shout) 22:25:21 that seems sort of unlikely 22:25:27 seeing how easy it is to separate monsters from a pack with 0 stealth 22:25:57 well even if they shout, that doesn't mean the other monsters in the pack know where you are 22:26:09 they just move towards the shout 22:26:32 Yeah, if 0 skill = always shout, I don't think it should default to 0 22:26:49 Also, I think I have figured out where to cleanly insert code to make monsters stop being clairvoyant if you appear via a new stair 22:27:44 Though perhaps they shouldn't do that if the two stairs are close to each other? 22:28:00 elliptic: well I worry about this making avoiding monsters too easy in general 22:28:41 I doubt the shouting changes will make too much difference overall. Or were you referring to the tracking bit? 22:30:43 elliott: well I was thinking of like simulating 5 stealth or something 22:30:43 I just meant making monsters less likely to shout for players without any stealth at all 22:31:00 elliptic: well, 5/30 is a pretty good approximation of 0, but fair enough 22:33:35 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:34 Oh, boo. I somehow only just realized that setting foe_memory to 0 will stop them tracking towards your LAST location, too, which it probably shouldn't if, say, you teleported while they were chasing you around a corner. I don't know that you would notice this in practice, though. 22:39:28 clearly need a stack 22:39:37 Well, I can see some ways around it 22:40:52 Teleporting out could just decrease foe_memory by a whole lot, so that they would only have time to reach your old location and wouldn't magically get info on your new one 22:47:19 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 22:47:40 -!- Dixbert_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:48:44 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:49:51 elliptic: I think I can probably implement this change myself now, with reasonably low untidiness, but it would be nice to know what resultant behavior you think is reasonable. I mean, assuming you haven't already started work on it, of course :) 22:51:44 DracoOmega: I thought about that issue with just setting foe_memory to 0, but I think it is okay 22:51:49 since it won't really be noticeable 22:52:15 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 22:52:49 DracoOmega: and I'd be very happy if you wanted to implement it :) 22:52:51 It might be in the odd case of teleporting just slightly to the left of where you started 22:53:19 But I think simply decreasing foe_memory to a very small amount should cover those sorts of cases 22:53:26 When you teleport, I mean 22:54:10 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:54:16 true, setting to 5 or 10 or something seems fine 22:54:32 But sure, I'll take this on, then. I've been staring at Crawl code for too many hours already today though, so I'll put it aside until tomorrow, but otherwise... :P 22:55:49 ??shaft 22:55:49 shaft[1/7]: A trap that drops you one, two, or three levels. Is currently the only trap of the natural variety (as opposed to mechanical or magical). A cool escape route if you're desperate. Try not to fall down one and land directly in a jelly pit. Disappears when used. 22:56:17 I started work on an experimental implementation of starcursed masses today. Now that starspawn are in 22:57:38 -!- lomky has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:55 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:33 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:10:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:11:42 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:16:19 -!- Dedagen has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:21 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:20:55 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:21:02 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 23:21:12 -!- tswett has quit [Changing host] 23:22:35 -!- Rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 23:23:19 DracoOmega: what does a starcursed mass do again? 23:24:04 Well, the basic concept is sort of a reverse slime creature that psychically screams at you in chorus 23:24:43 oh. cute 23:24:57 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:25:26 !tell kilobyte for a multi-square player species we could punt on the LOS oddities by giving it awesome detection for each body square 23:25:26 bh: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 23:25:33 It's not fully implemented so far and I'm still a little dubious over how well it'll work, but that's the basic concept 23:37:14 would be simpler just to have monsters shoot your ass without being revealed 23:37:14 kilobyte: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 23:38:39 then you'd take an arrow in the ass 23:39:27 I suppose it wouldn't be bad if each segment had 1hp 23:40:13 even a single hp pool wouldn't be bad 23:40:28 Slimetaur! :) 23:46:11 kraken species 23:48:02 -!- eb has quit [] 23:49:06 "Danger! Danger! My arms are flailing wildly!" 23:57:04 -!- Rofaner has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]