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DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:50:28 -!- saltylicorice has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:50:28 -!- [1]saltylicorice is now known as saltylicorice 05:53:38 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:06:18 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:41 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:09:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:09:39 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:13:40 -!- Kaput has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:22 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:12 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:15 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Changing host] 06:38:44 -!- Rewans has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:44:35 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:45:34 -!- Zifmia_ has quit [Client Quit] 06:50:35 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:47 -!- Sprort has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:14:30 -!- Zifmia has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:14:34 -!- Nikolaos is now known as Zifmia 07:14:34 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:38 -!- Pthing has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:21:00 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:34:54 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 07:47:45 03edlothiol 07* 0.12-a0-1204-g03bd668: Webtiles: Fix view errors for newly joining spectators. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03bd66849970 08:03:59 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:06:24 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:09 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 08:20:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 08:21:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:17 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: schuften] 08:28:49 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:31 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 08:32:26 -!- yobbo has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:33:06 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:06 -!- saltylicorice has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:41:07 -!- [1]saltylicorice is now known as saltylicorice 09:07:46 -!- rossi has quit [Client Quit] 09:09:45 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:12 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:36 -!- Pikkle has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:33:54 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:54 -!- kek has quit [Quit: f00d] 09:38:49 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:36 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:13 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:20 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:12 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:34 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:58 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:10 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:42 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:16 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:42 fr: an option to force a Y/N prompt whenever you try to attack without a weapon equipped 10:08:02 assuming you have no unarmed combat skill, presumably 10:08:19 that might be smarter than an option, yeah 10:17:00 <|amethyst> allow inscribing your hands :) 10:18:50 Wp: -) Fists {!D} 10:18:54 -!- somatism has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:20:05 <|amethyst> !p 10:20:13 <|amethyst> =f 10:21:11 {!e} 10:21:32 fr you can eat your fists by doing "e-" and then you can't train UC any more 10:23:21 -!- stenno has quit [Changing host] 10:23:21 -!- stenno has quit [Client Quit] 10:24:26 <|amethyst> v- for jazz hands 10:24:50 <|amethyst> r- "They look like big, good, strong hands, don't they?" 10:26:14 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:14 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:47 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:21 -!- Flyingpants has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:34:30 -!- elliott has quit 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"The life line looks really short." 11:32:54 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:37:14 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:38 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:13 -!- Twibatorson has quit [] 11:42:46 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:06 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:45:18 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:46:48 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 11:49:20 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:47 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:05:02 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:10:18 -!- mineral has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:14 -!- wasd` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:39 -!- Twibatorson has quit [] 12:15:37 -!- Dixbert_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:31 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19:10 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:23:48 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:58 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:19 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:38 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:09 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:21 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:44 -!- Pthing has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:46:59 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:13 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 12:59:54 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 13:00:09 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:12 -!- vosai is now known as iasov 13:04:47 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:53 Lemuel (L13 MiDK) ASSERT(in_bounds(mon->target) || mon->target.origin()) in 'mon-behv.cc' at line 1184 failed. (Lair:8) 13:05:59 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:06:29 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:06 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:13:07 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1205-g903cfab: Don't dispel Trog's hand or permanent confusion with ?vulnerability 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 23+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=903cfab18869 13:13:54 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:30 MarvinPA: butterflies, ruined forever? :( 13:14:55 ruining secret techs one by one 13:15:29 how about you ruin confusion giving rholy on the way 13:17:45 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:46 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:04 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:23:21 Nemelex keeps gifting "BUGGY deck of cards" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6407) by puppykicker 13:23:21 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:15 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:22 -!- syllogism has quit [] 13:35:30 -!- morgant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:38:22 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:13 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:11 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:41:39 -!- elliott has quit [Client Quit] 13:41:53 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:39 -!- puppykicker has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:50:56 -!- Rebthor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:07 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:32 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:15 -!- Vizer0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:08 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:30 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:18:42 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:18:49 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 14:27:19 -!- joelsdaman1 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:27:24 -!- Yxven has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:31:38 -!- joelsdaman1 has quit [Client Quit] 14:35:35 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:36:12 LuckyNed the Axe Maniac (L27 TeBe) (D:27) 14:38:06 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:27 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-1206-gad6ccff: Invert the augmentation mutation. 10(11 minutes ago, 4 files, 14+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad6ccffd172e 14:41:14 !lm LuckyNed type=crash -log 14:41:18 52. LuckyNed, XL27 TeBe, T:84176 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/LuckyNed/crash-LuckyNed-20121125-203612.txt 14:42:53 printing stats in webtiles 14:46:35 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:53:03 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:01:36 -!- tswett_ is now known as tswett 15:10:05 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:10:48 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:12 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:01 -!- saltylicorice has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:41 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:12 -!- Pikkle has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:58 -!- saltylicorice has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:37:58 -!- [1]saltylicorice is now known as saltylicorice 15:39:43 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:05 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-1207-gde3fb26: Display the status light for non-spell sources of RMsl. 10(5 minutes ago, 5 files, 39+ 20-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=de3fb26c28f6 15:41:40 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:43:51 -!- nht has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:44:30 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:47:30 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:49:11 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:35 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:46 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:50:09 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:18 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 15:55:13 -!- kek has quit [Quit: gonna suicide, brb] 16:00:03 -!- saltylicorice has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:00:03 -!- [1]saltylicorice is now known as saltylicorice 16:00:07 elliptic: ugh, bad idea. This means people with the mutation or amulet of the Air will get a bright marker all the time, hiding possibly important information. 16:00:19 kilobyte: having rMsl isn't important? 16:01:04 I've found myself constantly forgetting that I have rMsl and casting the spell and/or being more afraid of ranged monsters than I should, in past games with the mutation 16:01:13 how is this any different from having a light for permaflight? 16:01:16 when do people actually have two lines worth of status lights without the old potion of resistance 16:01:28 without actively trying to get it 16:01:28 then the spell should be marked as useless 16:01:58 greying out the spell sounds like a good idea if you have the amulet of air equipped 16:02:01 it needs some sort of a status light... would it help if the light isn't white? 16:02:08 greying out the spell is of course still good 16:03:16 as for a status light... usually items that give a permanent status don't display one. The only exception I can think of is perma flight 16:03:33 I don't think this is a big issue though 16:04:08 evilmike: are there any other examples of items that give a permanent status that has a status light that *don't* display that light? 16:04:40 I guess cTele 16:04:48 ring of teleport control, boots of speed (not exactly swiftness, but close to it) 16:04:55 I was more concerned about the mutation, though 16:05:17 I've gotten it several times and found the lack of light infuriating 16:05:37 it's important to be able to see at a glance what your defenses are like, and rMsl is part of that 16:05:37 I don't mind showing this stuff in the status area, since it's reasonably useful information 16:06:17 boots of running are quite far from swiftness, since they don't halve your stealth and trap detection abilities 16:06:18 the only problem I have with status window is "Fire Glow" type stuff, but that's a different issue 16:06:27 it would be sort of nice to see resists at a glance if the idea is to have it show tactically-relevant info like rmsl 16:06:32 I am aware of and can fire at off screen enemies. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6408) by Runemage 16:06:34 oh, yeah thats true about the stealth/traps stuff 16:09:21 I also see rMsl as different from cTele or resistances because it isn't in the list of common resistances/properties in the % screen... sure, it shows up in the @ line, but again, that's not something one looks at much 16:10:37 quite few characters care much about stealth 16:10:55 and if you do, you know to avoid swiftness 16:10:58 I tend to press @ to check my MR, for the most part 16:11:01 kilobyte: the point is that it wouldn't make any sense for boots of running to give the "Swift" status light (especially since they stack) 16:11:50 what bothered me is that the rMsl status light was going on for some sources of rMsl but not for others 16:12:01 oh this reminds me of something. I think we should have a status light for standing in a cloud (like we have one for standing in water now) 16:12:03 since Lev is not the large impediment (no picking up loot) it was before, what about hiding it instead? 16:12:06 colour the text based on the cloud type 16:12:17 standing in a cloud is a good idea, yeah 16:12:19 and have no light for harmless clouds, I think 16:12:26 obviously 16:12:39 airstrike is sort of a thing though 16:12:58 kilobyte: where does lev even happen now? tornado? 16:13:10 evilmike: never 16:13:11 never 16:13:24 whether or not you are flying is rather important 16:13:40 do you want people to drown all the time because they can't see that the duration is expiring? 16:14:00 or are you suggesting only hiding it if it is permanent (again, this feels really weird to me) 16:14:32 only temporary effects matter 16:14:50 really 16:14:56 for example, are you going to show that the player is wearing a ring of fire res? 16:15:21 because it's in the same class as amulet of the air granting rMsl 16:15:25 no it isn't 16:15:28 as I've explained 16:15:32 and we do show potion of resistance 16:15:47 it isn't just for rF... 16:16:27 obviously we don't want to show all resists as status lights... but the point is that when two effects are identical, it shouldn't be the case that one produces a status light and the other does not 16:16:31 yeah, I shortened it so it at least doesn't show four separate lights anymore 16:16:43 yes, that was good 16:16:44 like rF/rC? 16:17:08 rF and rC are not status lights 16:17:11 rMsl is a status light 16:17:14 -!- ToastyP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:51 they are, sort of, not shown literally only because I eliminated the tiny time period when one part could be expired but the other not yet 16:19:59 look, do you find it extremely distracting to have an rMsl status light if you cast the spell 20 turns ago? if not, I don't see why you should be bothered by a permanent light (except that I made it white for consistency with flight, but as I said I'd be happy to make it the normal blue color) 16:21:07 because I need to know when the spell will expire, if it already expired, etc 16:21:31 on the other hand, knowing that it would be worthless to cast the spell is rather less important as a constant reminder 16:21:40 that's not what it is a reminder of 16:21:48 Highlighted HP, MP, Str (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6409) by Runemage 16:21:48 and also, it distracts me from noticing actually relevant status lights 16:21:54 it is a reminder that your defenses are significantly better against most ranged attacks 16:21:57 how is that not relevant 16:22:23 I don't get reminders that my defenses against fire attacks are twice as good as normally 16:22:26 next you'll be saying that EV should be hidden 16:22:27 or elec thrice 16:22:54 -!- chukamok has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:54 kilobyte: but the point is that this status light *already exists* 16:23:09 so did rF 16:23:10 it's not like I made a new status light... players already get used to rMsl 16:23:25 rF status light hasn't existed for a long time, it isn't relevant to this discussion 16:23:42 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:45 why would permanent rMsl be highlighted but rMut not? The latter is more important. 16:23:54 Cast which spell? invis _Sorry, this spell is gone! 16:23:58 thank you wizmode 16:24:05 ... 16:24:23 here's an idea: we could place a missile symbol after the EV number 16:25:05 permanent rmsl is far more important than permanent rmut imo 16:25:07 there's a huge unused space to the right of EV 16:25:26 elliott: try in the Abyss 16:25:29 or on an AC char 16:26:03 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: gn8] 16:26:06 amulets of resist mutation do not have a duration that is completely identical to it 16:26:14 amulet or mutation of rMsl does 16:26:58 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:27:35 display entire % screen as status lights 16:28:00 I am finding it very difficult to actually reach the supposed dangerous "so many status lights that some would be lost" in an plausible universal scenario that isn't actively trying to get lights 16:28:01 monqy: that's where it's going, yeah :p 16:28:33 note: rMsl is not particularly easy to find on the % screen 16:28:36 we could compensate by removing most of the "Glow" statuses (keep it for corona, remove the rest) 16:28:54 try for example Glow appearing in around 674866937 situations 16:28:55 can rename it to Corona if it's only used for corona too of course 16:29:04 crna 16:29:06 evilmike: heh 16:29:11 Cna 16:29:22 Fire and Contam really don't need the Glow light 16:29:32 you're on fire; glowing is implied 16:29:33 elliott: I guess hostile angels too 16:29:54 D(C)i(o)s(r)j(o)u(n)n(a)ct -- looks like there's enough froom for "Corona" 16:29:54 well the halo is a bit obvious there because there's an angel surrounded by yellow 16:29:55 I think with the near-elimination of yellow floor, we don't really need it for halos either 16:31:17 a bunch of "silenced" floors have been re-added recently 16:33:10 oh, finally, achieved it with near starving regen resist fly invis sil touch conf -mr contam swift fast+slow glow plus anything else 16:33:24 you forgot -ctele 16:33:32 let that be the anything else 16:33:40 this is really straining plausibility 16:34:15 (this is trying to not use any gods or particularly difficult spells or races to get past two lines of status lights and thus actually lose information) 16:34:30 I don't think anyone has actually said there is a risk of that, the concern is about displaying too much information for the player to quickly parse 16:34:40 HangedMan: why would you bother getting many of them? It's mostly about zero vs any. 16:35:01 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:05 evilmike: my concern is garish lights outshining one another 16:35:06 17:00 <+kilobyte> elliptic: ugh, bad idea. This means people with the mutation or amulet of the Air will get a bright marker all the time, hiding possibly important information. 16:35:17 kind of started this mess 16:35:47 hmm... after a thought, this idea seems pretty good: EV: 17âž¹ 16:35:50 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:54 also this is pretty consistently blue good red bad yellow rather bad, aside from the magenta used in fly and fast+slow 16:36:07 can I just point out that most characters already had rMsl status light in most fights prior to my last commit 16:36:17 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:36:27 (or even "msl", there's 12 spaces after the EV number...) 16:36:28 displaying the rMsl effect next to EV does make some sense to me 16:37:21 there certainly is a lot of empty room in that part of the screen 16:37:29 too bad ( is quite hard to distinguish from other stuff 16:37:47 why not just (RMsl) if you are going to put it next to EV? 16:37:53 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:03 (I have missiles as âž¹ to make them different from weapons without mental effort) 16:38:05 putting some effects next to AC/EV/SH is a possibility, yeah... not sure how it would feel 16:38:14 on that note, we could also do this for str/dex/int 16:38:15 but can we not use weird unicode characters 16:38:23 for example if you have might: STR: 15 (might) 16:38:31 or something like that, anyway 16:38:33 evilmike: the only problem with that is with drained stats 16:38:37 if you go down that route it seems like you'll end up doing things like putting sure blade next to your weapon or whatever too though 16:38:47 which seems less clean than using a status line 16:39:06 well, weapon line doesn't necessarily have any space at all 16:39:13 unlike AC/EV/SH which do 16:39:14 sure blade is a temp effect 16:39:26 hiding Might is bad imo 16:39:36 yeah the weapon line has enough on it already 16:39:52 right it was an example as to why things like that might be bad in general 16:40:51 kilobyte: well moving temp effects up to next to AC/EV/SH would make sense if you want to move permanent effects that are identical to them 16:42:34 elliptic: I'd move all temp effects to the status line, and all permanent ones away 16:43:50 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:43:54 so identical temp effects and permanent effects appear completely different to the player, right 16:45:54 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:13 yeah, as only a couple effects are there, most are not 16:48:17 i don't get what this is about 16:48:41 but i certainly think elliptic committed a change that improved the interface overall 16:48:55 i don't mind pressing % to find my rF because i know where to look for it 16:49:26 i do mind searching several lines of text to find or not find rmsl 16:50:29 so any argument comparing status lights for rmsl and rf is pretty bad 16:51:10 unless, say, there was a new rmsl/dmsl property on the % screen which might just be enough 16:51:18 -!- agangemi has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:51:50 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:53 some of the stuff on % does seem arbitrary 16:52:23 ChrisOelmueller: could replace the "Flight" one 16:52:28 well, you'd still never be used to checking % for rMsl if it had a status light when cast, since 99% of the time that's where it comes from 16:52:38 so I don't see much point in putting it on % 16:53:31 a big difference between rF+ and rMsl is that rF+ is 99% of the time permanent, whereas rMsl is 99% of the time temporary 16:53:58 well it's kind of weird that flight is there *and* in the status bar and some people now complain that rmsl with a highly similar property (which isn't even on %) goes to the status bar too 16:54:07 thinking about this more, giving an rMsl light to the amulet does seem to be different from any other item. While boots of flight give permaflight, you have to choose to enable/disable it 16:54:09 -!- ontoclasm has left ##crawl-dev 16:54:15 wait, flight is on %? I didn't even know that haha 16:54:21 so that makes the amulet (as far as I can tell) the only item which puts a permanent status there 16:56:37 evilmike: true, though there's nearly no reason not to have boots of flight on constantly 16:56:55 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: bonne nuit à tous] 16:57:03 it is rather silly how they are still evokable, yes (if you see a titan, you can just take off the boots) 16:57:08 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:51 -!- chukamok_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:40 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:46 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:59:56 -!- chukamok_ is now known as chukamok 17:04:10 -!- pointsofdata has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0/20121119183901]] 17:04:51 evilmike: Does Guardian Spirit count as a status? 17:06:25 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ben weg] 17:07:37 -!- thened has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:40 ussdefiant: it's shown on the % screen and not as a status light 17:07:51 it's a "status" in the same sense as any effect you can get from jewellery 17:08:19 guardian spirit is a permanent effect only, so a good candidate for the % screen 17:10:01 guardiant spirit has pretty similar level of importance to rMsl 17:10:13 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:42 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:11:14 hmm, the former could be argued as a "special" AC-like effect, the other as "special" EV-like one 17:12:34 hp-like 17:12:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:12:42 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:13:12 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:32 -!- stenno\splat is now known as stenno 17:15:49 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 17:16:17 more like that, yeah, but hp is temporary state, so it shouldn't be muddied with other indicator 17:16:20 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:16:27 (and most important part of state, too) 17:17:16 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 17:18:34 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:22 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:14 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:20 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:21 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 17:35:20 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:14 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:15 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:48:44 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:18 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:02 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:09 -!- chukamok has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 17:51:07 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 17:51:48 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:21 -!- rkd has quit [] 17:58:04 -!- phunktion has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:22 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:58 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:33 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:16 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:26 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-1208-g528ec63: Tweak scales mutation numbers. 10(48 minutes ago, 3 files, 32+ 31-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=528ec636787e 18:03:26 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-1209-gd71bc79: Make the status light for perma-RMsl blue instead of white. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d71bc7984c38 18:03:49 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:05:22 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:08:50 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:07 that's even worse... it now masquerades as a temporary effect, makes you keep refreshing it before a fight, etc 18:10:41 -!- Rofaner has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:11:29 well, the spell should be made grey and uncastable while the perma-effect is up 18:11:50 yeah, obviously 18:12:08 I think that would alleviate any problem with trying to recast it (since it would be impossible) 18:14:36 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:17:25 it'd still garish up and outshine the status bar 18:17:43 also, the amulet of Air is broken for monsters 18:18:18 howso? 18:18:22 rmsl is implemented for them 18:19:10 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:41 -!- elliott has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:19:55 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:46 -!- SouthExpected has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:21:09 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:22:24 or is monster inaccuracy broken? 18:32:31 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:33 -!- HLA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:33:48 -!- Twibatorson has quit [Client Quit] 18:34:48 -!- wasd` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:14 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:43:20 -!- gowby has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:50:02 -!- were has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:53:32 kilobyte: how does one thing that most people are used to seeing outshine a status bar 18:54:16 it's even a normal, common color now 18:54:53 at the very least could you wait and see what it feels like to play with it? 18:54:55 -!- saltylicorice has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:55:11 I've played multiple games with Ds that got the rMsl mutation and I think this would have helped a lot 18:55:32 Also, it makes it clearer that the bonuses do not somehow stack 18:55:39 Which I can see some people wondering 18:55:53 -!- maahes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:59:00 -!- saltylicorice2 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:00:21 ??lorc_todo 19:00:21 lorc todo[1/7]: Lava orc monsters 19:00:23 ??lorc_todo[2] 19:00:23 lorc todo[2/7]: Make gaining/losing stoneskin less spammy 19:00:27 ??lorc_todo[3] 19:00:27 lorc todo[3/7]: Beogh 19:00:29 ??lorc_todo[4] 19:00:29 lorc todo[4/7]: Fix the stat display in tiles 19:00:33 ??lorc_todo[5] 19:00:34 lorc todo[5/7]: Fix being able to lose temperature post-berserk while still in lava 19:00:36 ??lorc_todo[6] 19:00:36 lorc todo[6/7]: Unrecommend LOPr 19:00:40 ??lorc_todo[7] 19:00:40 lorc todo[7/7]: expose to element on every turn above a certain temperature 19:12:55 And incidentally, I am happy to finally see that augmentation change :) 19:14:36 -!- Porost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:20:32 hmm, interesting 19:20:50 i cannot think of a good way to prevent heat damage checking beoghishness because auras don't expose what is creating them 19:23:30 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:34 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 19:23:43 // HACK: Currently this prevents even auras not caused by lava orcs... 19:23:43 if (you.religion == GOD_BEOGH && mons->friendly() && mons->god == GOD_BEOGH) 19:23:47 return; 19:23:47 this is about the best i can do 19:24:44 does that make your orcs immune to fire if you are under beogh as a lorc 19:24:52 yep 19:25:53 well, not fire anyways 19:25:58 just to lava orc heat 19:26:21 the problem is that this prevents me from using lava orc heat aura anywhere else 19:27:29 last chance to make lava dwarves instead that will mysteriously have LO as initials 19:27:54 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:05 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 19:30:39 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes is now known as HangedMan 19:31:17 owarves 19:36:51 i really need to fix the messaging on these at some point, it is rather irritating how it works 19:37:23 also i think give temperature inertia so that if it crosses a breakpoint it is guaranteed not to cross the other direction for at least a few turns 19:37:37 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:20 !learn add lorc_todo Give temperature inertia in addition to the maximum change currently there. 19:39:20 lorc todo[8/8]: Give temperature inertia in addition to the maximum change currently there. 19:39:26 !learn del lorc_todo[6] 19:39:26 Deleted lorc todo[6/8]: Unrecommend LOPr 19:40:59 fr: lopr*zin 19:41:35 Zin is supposed to be recommended these days? :P 19:41:51 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:44:17 would pick zin over beogh day and night 19:50:14 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 19:50:48 hmm, interesting 19:50:54 stuff doesn't take heat aura damage until the first time it moves 19:51:37 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:13 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:45 !learn del lorc_todo[3] 19:52:45 Deleted lorc todo[3/7]: Beogh 19:54:25 !learn del lorc_todo[4] 19:54:25 Deleted lorc todo[4/6]: Fix being able to lose temperature post-berserk while still in lava 19:55:40 !learn add lorc_todo Make sure all messaging and display tiers match up 19:55:40 lorc todo[6/6]: Make sure all messaging and display tiers match up 19:55:41 is Beogh Orc Conversion just a function of worshipping the god, or does it check your race too? 19:55:48 god 19:57:56 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:59:04 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:00:02 ??lorc_todo[5] 20:00:02 lorc todo[5/6]: Give temperature inertia in addition to the maximum change currently there. 20:00:05 ??lorc_todo[4] 20:00:05 lorc todo[4/6]: expose to element on every turn above a certain temperature 20:00:09 !learn del lorc_todo[4] 20:00:09 Deleted lorc todo[4/6]: expose to element on every turn above a certain temperature 20:00:19 ??lorc_todo[2] 20:00:19 lorc todo[2/5]: Make gaining/losing stoneskin less spammy 20:00:29 !learn del lorc_todo[2] 20:00:30 Deleted lorc todo[2/5]: Make gaining/losing stoneskin less spammy 20:00:33 ??lorc_todo[2] 20:00:33 lorc todo[2/4]: Fix the stat display in tiles 20:00:34 ??lorc_todo[3] 20:00:34 lorc todo[3/4]: Give temperature inertia in addition to the maximum change currently there. 20:00:36 ??lorc_todo[4] 20:00:36 lorc todo[4/4]: Make sure all messaging and display tiers match up 20:01:52 -!- Wehk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:56 who wants to pull lava orcs into trunk 20:03:24 * ussdefiant will volunteer to splat the first lava orc in trunk 20:03:35 The same person who wants to merge the tentacles branch! (hint, hint) 20:03:45 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:14 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:15 what's the tentacles branch? 20:04:41 kilobyte :( 20:04:43 Tentacled starspawn + some code clean up and multiple kraken bugfixes 20:05:08 -!- Wehk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:09 the same person who's supposed to fix multiple silver runes always 20:06:17 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:18 Well, I think at one point MarvinPA was talking of merging the tentacles branch. But kilobyte said the code needs massaging of some form or another. I'm not sure what or I'd offer to help with that myself (I did ask) 20:06:43 gotta fix tentacles and disjunction!! 20:07:00 lava orcs are quite playable now, apart from temperature balancing 20:07:05 but even that is a lot better than it was last time 20:07:09 and you can even play beogh with them now 20:07:16 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:07:19 All things being equal, I'd rather the merge first, because so much code has changed that it'll just create merge conflicts 20:07:34 (As the kraken bugfix the other undoubtedly already did) 20:07:38 octopus merge~ 20:07:39 other day* 20:08:02 so, if i understand correctly, lava orcs can wade in lava and get bonuses for doing so? 20:08:21 what happens to things they happen to be carrying,wearing? 20:09:26 all scrolls burn instantly 20:09:45 -!- Rofaner has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:49 -!- ajikeshi__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:21 ussdefiant: the same thing that happens to merfolk in deep water (nothing) 20:10:31 however, they cannot read scrolls or books above a certain temperature 20:10:38 and lava instantly raises them to max temperature 20:11:33 Not being able to memorize spells at max tension: the least gameplay affecting restriction ever :P 20:12:03 not being able to memorise spells in lava just sounds a bit annoying 20:12:30 I hope they can at least read books as in see the spells in them? 20:12:46 you can memorize spells! you just can't use books to do it 20:13:04 That sounds like a neat trick 20:13:04 elliott: i think it would block that actually but i wouldn't be surprised if there are information leaks somewhere 20:13:19 needs vehumet 20:13:21 branch 20:13:28 how's marvinpa doing on that thing 20:13:46 lava items get melted, anyways 20:13:49 unlike deep water ones 20:13:52 so you wouldn't have a lava stash 20:15:25 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:15 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:56 !tell kilobyte Lava orcs have more fixes and such. Would be great to get them merged before I go on vacation :) 20:17:56 Eronarn: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 20:18:48 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:15 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:14 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:23:06 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:50 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:26:53 -!- quintus has quit [Quit: acetylmethylwhatever] 20:26:58 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:27:46 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:17 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:33 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:59 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:39 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:15 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:20 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:10 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:27 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:17 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:43:28 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:25 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:39 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 20:49:24 -!- mineral has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:49:30 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:34 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:53:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53:30 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:32 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:17 -!- HangedMan has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:01:36 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:42 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:00 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:02:31 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 21:03:29 -!- johnstein has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:06:34 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:05 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:07 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 21:11:45 -!- Dixbert_ is now known as Dixbert 21:20:33 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 21:29:01 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 21:32:24 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:36:27 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:36:36 * bh grumbles 21:36:55 The OSX updater just bricked my laptop, so don't expect any patches for a while. 21:38:33 -!- Vizer0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:29 impossible, It Just Worksâ„¢ 21:43:14 -!- Vizer0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:34 I think Crawl is more stable than OSX. 21:43:40 though to be fair, an OS does a bit more 21:47:34 -!- saltylicorice has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:47:34 -!- [1]saltylicorice is now known as saltylicorice 21:48:27 -!- Vizer1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:48:45 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:22 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 21:49:24 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:17 anyone here have anything to say in favor of the lichform strength boost? 21:54:52 I don't think it adds much except some extra annoyance with carrying capacity constantly changing 21:54:55 Well, having more str is always better than having less, but if you are asking how strongly it will be missed, I have to imagine the answer is 'not very' 21:54:59 i have things to say against its favour 21:55:08 isn't strength nigh worthless? 21:55:13 No, not really 21:55:32 It's not that great in a lot of circumstances compared to other stats, but I'd always take it if it were free :P 21:55:32 mainly the carrying capacity thing, which is a nuisance 21:55:35 it's useful to carry around a bunch of crap in pan when you're too lazy to drop stuff 21:55:35 evp reduction and scarcely any more damage? 21:55:37 * elliott <-- 21:55:48 bh: str isnt worthless, it just doesnt help much for actual combat 21:55:56 of the 3 stats its the least helpful though 21:56:22 -!- chukamok has joined ##crawl-dev 21:56:29 I do miss secret doors. 21:56:52 Perhaps you don't get a vote, then? :P 21:57:11 DracoOmega: I think how crawl did secret doors was entirely wrong :) 21:57:16 but I miss the idea. 21:57:39 In my universe, I think you should get one shot to spot or miss a secret door. 21:57:59 i've only seen one roguelike do secret doors in a way that i like, and it uses them in a way that they are not actually "secret" at all 21:58:58 Yeah, it seems hard to do them in a way that I would call 'right' in a roguelike 21:59:12 Though perhaps it is possible, somehow? 21:59:49 evilmike: If you 'get' the door it's white if you miss it it's red, or something? 22:00:20 sil makes it so nearly all of them are extremely telegraphed (if there's a dead end, there is *always* a secret door), but makes it so you cant even detect them unless you have enough skill. and the way that game works, it helps quite a bit to be able to actually detect them 22:00:40 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:15 there's also an item that can detect+open them. so your choices are to either burn xp, use up charges (if you found the item), or find another way around 22:02:43 Honestly, I'm tempted to think that locked or sealed doors might work better for those mechanics 22:02:59 Since if an experienced player 'knows' they're there, the game may as well let everyone know 22:03:04 the game has locked doors too 22:03:09 Oh, okay 22:03:12 they're a bit different because you can bash them open (and make noise) 22:03:26 Fair enough, I suppose 22:03:40 secret ones, you can't force open unless you have a rare (and high level) item that can dig through walls 22:03:42 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:18 i've played a lot of roguelikes, that's the only one that I think does a good job with secret doors 22:04:19 evilmike: sounds interesting, but too tedious for rawl 22:04:38 it wouldnt work at all for dcss, no 22:08:08 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1209-gd71bc79 22:09:07 speaking of strength boosts from transformations, apparently statue form gives +2 strength 22:09:22 somehow liches are stronger than statues?? 22:09:42 it can make some sense for statues, i suppose 22:09:47 well you see stone can shatter 22:10:06 elliptic: I'd advocate dumping the strength bonus 22:10:40 does ice form still give +str? I distinctly remember casting it for the carrying cap back when I did stupid things like that and casting meph 22:10:53 yeah, I'm just trying to decide what to do with statue form? I'm tempted to increase the bonus to something more noticeable than +2 22:10:55 like +5 22:11:41 why not just remove all the str bonuses 22:11:48 I guess statue form for carry capacity has some drawbacks but still 22:12:02 dragon form for carry capacity 22:12:08 it's been done 22:12:11 alternatively make them special str bonuses that don't give carry capacity (so they do almost nothing) just like oka fighting skill doesn't give HP 22:12:13 Well, statue form melee damage gets a bonus from str 22:12:20 DracoOmega: well it uses str/3 22:12:22 and it gives you +2 str 22:12:28 div_rand_round? 22:12:33 so you get 0.6-0.7 more base damage or whatever 22:12:51 maybe it could give +5 str -5 dex instead of +2/-2 like it does now 22:13:13 statue form gives carrying capacity anyway 22:13:18 on top of the strength 22:13:25 what really 22:13:36 since it doubles your weight 22:13:38 more things to unceremoniously remove! 22:14:17 I don't see how carrying capacity changes are annoying for statue form, given that you're not going to cast it just to haul stuff around in the way that flight used to work 22:14:22 evilmike: it already gives a huge EV penalty though, so maybe not really a good idea to exacerbate that 22:14:30 oh, right 22:14:36 DracoOmega: are you sure nobody will do that if it's the only form left that increases carry capacity :P 22:14:39 I really, really doubt people (aside from weird people we shouldn't concern ourselves with) will use statue form to haul items around 22:14:45 in general carrying capacity changing because of transformations doesn't really bother me 22:14:55 elliptic: you could dump the statue form str bonus and just give a flat damage bonus 22:14:56 hey I resemble that remark 22:14:59 elliott: If they want to be silly, I say let them 22:15:02 Statue Form of Slaying 22:15:03 the only place where that even makes a lot of ssense is pan or the abyss, and if you want to be slowed all the time in those places, be my guest 22:15:14 and by "a lot of sense" I mean "it still doesn't make much sense" 22:17:35 -!- phill has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:36 -!- phunktion has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:59 -!- phill is now known as Guest77246 22:19:30 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 22:20:04 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:32 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:21 -!- Guest77246 has quit [Client Quit] 22:21:51 -!- Blazinghand__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:40 taqueso (L3 KoAs) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded_keys_left) in 'macro.cc' at line 549 failed. 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