00:05:17 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1149-gdd8e910 (34)
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05:00:03 <Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1143-g376ddfc
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06:07:46 <Cheibriados> wrong message for immune monsters (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6398) by KiloByte
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06:14:17 <ToBeFree> about the german translation again - does anybody know what's the best way to send a message to chriscameron0? Someone requested membership over 6 days ago and is still on the waiting list :-/
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06:19:45 <ChrisOelmueller> ToBeFree: you could also try to !tell galehar
06:20:06 <ToBeFree> galehar = chrischameron0? :-)
06:20:59 <ToBeFree> I wonder if I should send a private message via Transifex - that would only make sense if it triggers an email notice
06:25:19 <alefury> no, galehar = raphael langella, no idea what name he uses on transifex
06:26:05 <alefury> hes overseeing the transifex part of the translation project
06:26:30 <ToBeFree> some days ago, someone named "Grimm" added an user to the German translation group without being a member or coordinator of it. I assume it is an admin, maybe he can help me :D
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06:27:24 <alefury> maybe he can
06:27:41 <alefury> both grimm and galehar can be reached fairly well via tavern, just post in the translation thread
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07:07:07 <kilobyte> !tell galehar What are the rules for approving transifex members?  I see there's some guy waiting for joining polish for a month.
07:07:07 <Henzell> kilobyte: OK, I'll let galehar know.
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08:19:17 <alefury> MarvinPA: care to weigh in on ctele? i set up a wiki page summarizing the discussion so far
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08:20:51 <Eronarn> player randgod copying name is a problem because names like 'AuditTheFed'
08:22:14 <alefury> i dont know what that means
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08:22:51 <alefury> for most names it wouldnt be so problematic i think. i mean, people who want to worship "cumgolem" can do so, and people who dont like the name can leave the altar in disgust.
08:23:33 <Eronarn> there are some pretty offensive names out there
08:23:41 <Eronarn> currently you'd only see them if in irc or watching the player list
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08:26:10 <kilobyte> or at most, as ghosts, so you have a target you can unload your hatred on
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08:30:10 <alefury> hitlersboner stood out on the tourney player list
08:30:47 <alefury> anyway, the idea is to use good players as the basis for gods, and the ones with offensive names tend to be worse than average players
08:31:24 <alefury> so they might have a hard time getting a god based on them
08:31:38 <alefury> incentive to try, though
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08:47:51 <st_> imo someone who's won all dg combos should be a perma god.
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08:50:47 <kilobyte> !lg * win race=dg s=name x=cdist(char)
08:51:11 <Sequell> 254 games for * (win race=dg s=name): 28x clouded [23], 15x 78291 [14], 11x pivotal [11], 8x jenius [8], 6x hyperelliptic [6], 10x minmay [5], 4x elliptic [4], 4x mikee [4], 4x hyperbolic [4], 4x jeanjacques [4], 5x b0rsuk [3], 3x reid [3], 3x MarvinPA [3], 3x Grimm [3], 2x theglow [2], 2x Stabwound [2], 2x rax [2], 2x crate [2], 2x itsmu [2], 2x tcjsavannah [2], 2x pointless [2], 2x casmith789 [2...
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08:51:26 <kilobyte> !lg clouded win race=dg s=char
08:51:27 <Sequell> 28 games for clouded (win race=dg s=char): 3x DgFE, 2x DgNe, 2x DgRe, 2x DgCj, DgAs, DgSt, DgIE, DgMo, DgEn, DgAE, DgHu, DgWz, DgSk, DgEE, DgAr, DgTm, DgAM, DgGl, DgWn, DgWr, DgFi, DgSu, DgVM
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09:03:51 <|amethyst> speaking of which... does not banning such user names (I'm thinking of hitlersboner420 in particular) expose me to liability in Europe?
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09:05:30 <alefury> maybe in some countries? youre not in europe though, and neither is your server, so all they could do is sue you in in their country i think?
09:06:18 <alefury> if anything it would be done by some shady lawyer firm, and they tend to only target people they are likely to get money from
09:06:31 <|amethyst> What about criminal prosecution?
09:06:45 <alefury> again, what are they supposed to do to you?
09:06:56 <|amethyst> I'm in academia, so being unable to travel to Germany would be a pain
09:07:20 <alefury> pretty sure its not going to be a problem
09:07:58 <alefury> maybe Napkin knows more
09:08:04 <rax> |amethyst: what I've done is allow them to exist but ban them from being displayed
09:08:22 <|amethyst> eh, I guess I'll worry about if if I get a letter from lawyers, but that's not likely to happen
09:08:29 <rax> they don't get posted through Henzell at the least, and if the scoring scripts fon't have a banned words list it might be a good idea
09:08:57 <|amethyst> rax:  I block announcements like CAO does, but you can still see ghosts or sequell queries
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09:09:27 <rax> ah point
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09:09:48 <|amethyst> I did have to recently upgrade one of the regexps
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09:11:11 <alefury> just an example: facebook and google routinely disobey european laws
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09:11:46 <|amethyst> google and yahoo have lost lawsuits over it, but then again they have enough money to make suing them worthwhile
09:11:56 <alefury> yeah
09:12:10 <alefury> there was some other recent case i think
09:12:40 <alefury> but its really not something you go to jail or get arrested for
09:13:15 <alefury> theres lots of actual nazi propaganda on the internet, in case you dont know :P
09:13:44 <|amethyst> so they're more reasonable about it than the US is about gambling
09:13:52 <alefury> gambling = money
09:13:57 <alefury> thats a different thing entirely :P
09:14:17 <alefury> now if you had a gambling page you might get into trouble here too
09:14:58 <alefury> the french are pretty strict about that in particular afaik, germany has some fairly silly laws but they dont get enforced as strictly i think
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09:15:33 <|amethyst> The internet filter at my wife's former employer blocks s-z.org as "gambling related"
09:15:50 <alefury> well, internet filters are internet filters
09:15:56 <alefury> and those generally suck
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09:16:21 <|amethyst> I have no idea how it happened---no one on the same IP runs a gambling-related site either
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09:16:57 <|amethyst> And the only way to report an incorrect classification was to click on the "go ahead and fire me" button
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09:17:10 <|amethyst> ("View this site anyway")
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09:19:53 <alefury> stories like that make me think i should come up with some good idea so i can be my own boss :/
09:20:18 <alefury> (come up with some good idea and then develop it far enough to make money with it)
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09:23:46 <|amethyst> and then get sued when you didn't have internet filters and someone looks at porn in front of a coworker
09:23:49 <|amethyst> :/
09:24:16 <alefury> haha
09:24:49 <alefury> offices are expensive anyway, and you can go surprisingly far without them
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09:39:32 <kilobyte> as for banning names being illegal: Germany goes quite far on censorship themselves
09:40:19 <kilobyte> so not only banning hitlersboner420 won't land you in any trouble, not banning it can
09:41:17 <|amethyst> hm
09:41:31 <kilobyte> so sorry about your plans to name a character Schlickgruber :p
09:41:53 <|amethyst> I guess I'll need to add a filter to dgl then
09:42:44 <kilobyte> I wouldn't care about that myself
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09:43:02 <|amethyst> or just change their passwords
09:44:03 <kilobyte> but then, I'm very rabid against all forms of censorship, even those that are superficially with good intent, so I'm biased here
09:44:49 <kilobyte> !lg hitlersboner420 win
09:44:51 <Sequell> 1. hitlersboner420 the Meteorologist (L27 KoCj), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-10-28 10:34:29, with 12845995 points after 125822 turns and 14:28:44.
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09:45:09 <kilobyte> !lg hitlersboner420 s=src
09:45:10 <Sequell> 112 games for hitlersboner420 (s=src): 112x cszo
09:45:17 <edlothiol> I'm pretty sure not banning hitlersboner won't get you in any trouble in germany
09:45:17 <Henzell> edlothiol: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
09:46:51 <alefury> it certainly wont
09:46:57 <edlothiol> making fun of hitler or mentioning his name is not illegal, as long as you're not denying the holocaust or inciting racial hatred you'll be fine
09:49:37 <kilobyte> and if you're muslim, you are allowed to both deny the holocaust and incite racial hatred, too
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09:53:55 <alefury> well, the police certainly wont give a shit, and shady german lawyers out for money tend to target only german citizens and businesses with their bullshit
09:54:12 <alefury> i really wouldnt worry about it
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09:54:40 <|amethyst> thanks
09:54:44 <alefury> im not sure how hard it is to get a german visa as a us citizen, but i suspect it is fairly easy
09:55:07 <alefury> so i wouldnt expect problems there either
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09:56:01 <alefury> visa background checks are really the only thing you may have any reason at all to worry about stuff like this
09:56:23 <alefury> hm, that sentence didnt turn out very correct
09:56:51 <|amethyst> I believe I can visit for up to 90 days without a visa
09:57:03 <alefury> no problem then
09:57:21 <alefury> i didnt expect it to be quite as easy, seeing the shit my brother has to go through to study in the us for a year :/
09:58:03 <kilobyte> alefury: US->Europe is "what visa?", only the other way includes trouble
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09:59:06 <|amethyst> that's in part because 1 year > 90 days, and in part because the ICE training manual is just a copy of Kafka's "The Castle"
09:59:31 <kilobyte> even with all other bureaucracy done beforehand, getting the visa itself is a matter of going to your country's capital (must be home country only), paying fees and standing in a long line the whole day
10:01:49 <kilobyte> of course, you need to stand in that line yourself
10:03:21 <alefury> that sounds horrible :(
10:03:50 <alefury> my brother is still stuck in the "other bureaucracy" phase
10:04:15 <alefury> i just hope that "standing in a line all day" rule is for filthy commies only
10:05:55 <kilobyte> it's not just post-9/11 security theater, when I went to ACM Finals in 1998, the whole team had to spend a day in the embassy just to be able to visit for a few days
10:06:06 <alefury> fuck
10:06:41 <alefury> bureaucracy sucks :(
10:06:55 <kilobyte> as far as I know, it's the same for all cases where you don't have a visa waiver (ie, you're from a short list of countries, that excludes Poland)
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10:09:20 <|amethyst> Brunei?  No problem.  Poland?  Stay away, filthy commies
10:09:20 <kilobyte> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program
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10:12:50 <|amethyst> apparently the reason Poland hasn't been added to the list is that the US refuses too many Polish visa applications
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10:27:21 <Napkin> what a sucky nick
10:27:30 <Napkin> off to pool o/
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11:18:01 <Eronarn> i wonder if instead of player gods being used we should make it so it chooses totally random gods and then checks a map of what that god has : player skills
11:18:10 <Eronarn> the other way around means players influence what gods are available
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11:31:13 <alefury> only some would be based on players
11:32:19 <faze> fr let clouded decide what happens to demigods
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11:36:28 <Eronarn> i think it is bad enough that players get to determine ghosts, stuff like sticky flame draconians or ice storm ghosts
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13:59:04 <Cheibriados> Message given about Orc Priest smiting other Orc allies (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6399) by axlexk
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14:33:09 <HangedMan> why is it The hydra bites something! but The hydra bites it but does no damage
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16:56:53 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1150-g51ab6d6: Remove util/fake_pty on "make clean". 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=51ab6d642295
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17:25:57 <bh> kilobyte: I think I have the wrath thing working properly. Nemelex should be unchanged.
17:27:29 <kilobyte> there's not that much reason to have him inconsistent with others -- the active wrath is not much better than those of other gods (even if it at least can't be scummed out of)
17:27:37 <kilobyte> it's the passive one that's a fun thing
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17:29:52 <bh> kilobyte: I don't have any objections to changing Nemelex. I just left him alone because his wrath is special
17:31:26 <st_> from my past experiences abandoning him his wrath is sort of broken
17:31:36 <st_> as in the cards have power 0 or something
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17:58:01 <bh> kilobyte: I have a patch that I think works.
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17:59:46 <kilobyte> fr: remove gods, we'd simplify the code quite a bit
18:00:15 <BlastHardcheese> every man a god
18:00:42 <kilobyte> wasn't only clouded supposed to be turned into one?
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18:01:24 <bh> ok. it's a fairly sizable patch. I probably broke something.
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18:02:58 <Cheibriados> Penance decreases as a player acquires experience. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6400) by brendan
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18:20:36 <alefury> kilobyte: tornado crash
18:21:41 <kilobyte> alefury: where?
18:21:49 <alefury> snake:5
18:22:11 <alefury> ill put it on mantis with the crash report
18:22:21 <alefury> spl-tornado.cc line 418 in case you meant that "where"
18:23:04 <kilobyte> any special situation?
18:23:29 <kilobyte> I mean, fancy spawns like the Royal Jelly, slime creatures?
18:23:38 <kilobyte> or Fedhas and walking through plants?
18:24:31 <alefury> im with ash, there were a bunch of different kinds of nagas around
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18:24:46 <alefury> 6401
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18:25:28 <alefury> oh, should i put up the save?
18:26:39 <alefury> eh, ill just upload it
18:26:43 <kilobyte> I guess you're far from that place
18:27:15 <alefury> back on the stairs
18:27:31 <kilobyte> no one's running stuff with ulimit -c > 0, so I doubt you have a core either
18:27:32 <alefury> the vault is on the bottom left, i explored the rest of the level, then went in
18:28:14 <alefury> oh, right
18:28:21 <Cheibriados> tornado crash (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6401) by Galefury
18:28:21 <alefury> i had also just cast ood
18:28:23 <alefury> maybe that crashed it
18:28:40 <kilobyte> doh right, Windows, so no stack trace either
18:28:56 <elliott> ioods have no_tele now
18:29:00 <elliott> that might be relevant
18:29:16 <alefury> it went like tornado --> wait 2 turns --> ood --> crash about one turn later
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18:31:42 <kilobyte> there's no translocations involved, so no_tele shouldn't matter
18:33:05 <alefury> probably related to trying to move ood anyway
18:33:26 <alefury> i mean, its not going to crash from a bunch of nagas and snakes
18:35:12 <kilobyte> new tracer spam when casting anything in wizmode makes debugging anything Not Fun
18:35:20 <alefury> also you can see in the screenshot that it crashed the turn after i cast ood
18:37:29 <alefury> its not crashing from just casting both, though :(
18:41:18 <alefury> repeating the stuff i did when it crashed doesnt reproduce the crash :(
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18:45:52 <HangedMan> if some of the weird layout fork layouts aren't usable as is in regular crawl, would they workd as inception layouts?
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18:56:23 <|amethyst> Hm... if _rotate doesn't find a spot for the monster, it returns the original 'from' position... but doesn't that mean the 'Actually move actors into place' loop will assert as it just did?
18:57:40 <|amethyst> since the position does have an actor there, namely the one that's being moved
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19:08:48 <alefury> well, i hope you find it :)
19:08:50 <alefury> good night
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19:15:39 <kilobyte> everything that's supposed to move is temporarily at (0,0) at that moment
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19:18:19 <|amethyst> oh, hm
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19:18:36 <kilobyte> the culprit seems to be line 175
19:19:30 <kilobyte> it can arbitrarily deny moves, while the rest of the algorithm assumes anything that's allowed to move may end up at any allowed position
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19:29:51 <kilobyte> demaning that there is a straight line between the starting and ending point for a monster probably makes no sense: the monster should be allowed to get rotated around a pillar, especially if you're a slowed naga of Chei
19:31:13 <kilobyte> one possible solution would be to partition move_act/move_avail into disjoint parts
19:37:03 <kilobyte> that'd blow up the code's size and complexity by a lot, is there a simpler solution?
19:39:24 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1151-gbcba86f: Assert that tornado rotation found a valid spot. 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bcba86f02265
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20:35:16 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1152-gf9f6328: Fix non-forced delete_mutation() affecting undead. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 22+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f9f6328b200b
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21:00:58 <Gretell> Jayrays (L2 DEWz)  (D:1)
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