00:03:38 Pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-b1-126-g4ead40f (33) 00:04:51 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:56 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-531-gd2d27b2 (34) 00:08:17 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Ukončuji] 00:13:45 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:06 Windows builds of pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-b1-126-g4ead40f 00:26:09 -!- justaminute has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:27:17 !bad item on weapon adjust (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6235) by Stelpa 00:31:17 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:35:07 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:49 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:25 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:51:25 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:19 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:55:07 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:10 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:59 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:04:37 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 271 seconds] 01:06:45 -!- Guest56299 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 01:17:17 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:19:32 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:22:47 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:35 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:41:05 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 01:41:25 -!- bh has left ##crawl-dev 01:47:37 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:49:10 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:53:37 -!- Guest42069 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:27 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:01:48 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 02:03:20 -!- JackRogers has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120907231657]] 02:03:48 -!- evilmike has quit [] 02:04:30 -!- Anori has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:06:57 -!- hagb4rd has quit [Quit: hagb4rd] 02:10:54 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:54 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:55 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:18:51 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:12 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:55 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 02:28:40 -!- Predelnik has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:31:40 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:34:56 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:36:22 -!- DainHome has quit [Changing host] 02:36:39 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:38:34 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:01 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:43:51 -!- eb has quit [] 02:43:55 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:54:59 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:02 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:15 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:15:06 -!- domi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:31:00 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:46 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:31:58 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:35:49 -!- Pingas_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:59 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:36:19 -!- elliott has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:45 -!- Pingas has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:39:33 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:40:07 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:01 trabius (L10 OpCK) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1142 failed. (D:10) 03:44:33 -!- Pingas_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:24 Xom gifted Ring of the Mage failed to autoinscribe. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6236) by pivotal 03:46:16 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:19 -!- Salivanth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:15:07 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: nipaa~] 04:15:35 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:16:31 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:16:52 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:21:13 -!- Isabel has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:22:17 Put liches to Z 04:22:37 -!- Guest42069 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:27:39 ew 04:43:21 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:50:44 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:52:11 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: -a-] 04:53:21 -!- DracoOmega has quit [] 04:55:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 05:00:04 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-531-gd2d27b2 05:14:38 -!- blmarket has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 05:15:42 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:26:40 -!- Salivanth has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:37:18 -!- Sab0t has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:39:43 -!- oberstein has quit [Quit: uhhh] 05:40:13 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:37 -!- wasd223 has quit [Quit: You slip out of the net!] 05:44:26 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:45:49 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:07:54 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:12:28 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:01 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:08 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:22:31 -!- the_glow has quit [Client Quit] 06:23:34 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:49 -!- uxctr is now known as scummos 06:27:55 -!- Gilihad has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:32:34 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:37:21 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38:13 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:47 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:42:07 03aleftmail * r7c457e948339 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Fixed chardump displaying '+'/'-' near an untrainable skill 06:42:10 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.11 * rc369e449f9a2 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/tiles/title_white_noise_grabbing_the_orb.png: New title image: grabbing the orb (white noise). 06:42:10 03galehar * r09708f0356cc 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/tiles/title_white_noise_grabbing_the_orb.png: New title image: grabbing the orb (white noise). 06:42:12 03aleftmail 07stone_soup-0.11 * r5b48a69b46c0 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Fixed chardump displaying '+'/'-' near an untrainable skill 06:57:36 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: AndroidIrc Disconnecting] 07:09:53 !tell bh "ASSERT(env.cloud_no == 0) in 'abyss.cc' at line 1317 failed." -- to reproduce, "./crawl --no-save --rc test/stress/abyss.rc" and let it churn for a bit. 07:09:54 kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know. 07:17:49 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:27 -!- flyingpants has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:23:45 -!- Tolias has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:29:02 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:35:30 -!- DainHome has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 07:41:28 -!- DainHome has quit [Changing host] 07:42:28 -!- Neula has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:07 -!- erisdiscordia_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:54:47 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:56:37 -!- Mandevil has quit [Client Quit] 07:57:27 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:33 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:59:08 -!- VideoGames has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:06:42 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:08:31 -!- BanMido has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:09:11 -!- Qoon has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:28:03 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:35:31 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:38 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:12 -!- ig0rbit_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:46:28 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:48:51 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:59:51 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:05:40 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:15:34 -!- bracc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:16:05 No warning for deactivating tengu permaflight above deep water (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6237) by kryft 09:17:24 -!- bracc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:54 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:41 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:27:34 -!- Porost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:44:07 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 09:50:30 -!- CIA-102 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:52:55 -!- Rewans has quit [] 09:54:32 striker (L8 HEWz) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1142 failed. (D:7) 09:56:41 -!- Isabel has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:57:21 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:01:20 -!- CIA-68 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:02:22 -!- CIA-84 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:04:51 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:45 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:12:04 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:12:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO is down for major renovations, back by early September, but try CSZO instead! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 10:12:22 <|amethyst> (reporting commits since CIA seems to have left) 10:12:52 <|amethyst> (apologies if I don't get a chance to turn that back off right away when CIA returns) 10:14:45 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:17:40 -!- piss has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:19:33 -!- ivan``_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:52 -!- ivan`` has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:22:52 -!- rphillips has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:23:27 -!- ZRN is now known as God 10:23:45 -!- God is now known as ZRN 10:30:14 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:33:58 -!- sacredchao is now known as stenno 10:37:17 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 10:46:22 -!- CIA-67 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:01 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:26 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:38 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:15 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:54:15 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:05:18 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:07:03 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:17:59 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:41 -!- mthomson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:20:37 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:24 -!- MPR has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:29:13 alefury: Hallo! Wrath proposal on the wiki =) 11:30:14 ahhh 11:30:20 hi 11:30:26 that means ill have to read those crd mails :( 11:30:43 no! 11:30:50 because the wiki has it all 11:30:58 hmm. intriguing 11:31:09 -!- Gilihad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:31:16 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:54 Unfortunately, I never have godly wrath in my games (dpeg is a good follower), so I don't know which wrath effects should be addressed first. But I know there are a lot of complaints about how Trog does it. 11:32:00 -!- ZRN has quit [] 11:32:59 trog basically sends some bad dudes to club you to death 11:33:23 very efficient, no fuss, just bad dudes 11:33:55 they are berserk, so they will catch you :) 11:33:58 yes, but regardless of your XL 11:34:09 no scaling 11:34:14 i think it is based on xl? maybe? oka's is based on xl 11:34:18 i think it does scale 11:34:19 ??trog wrath 11:34:20 trog wrath[1/3]: ABANDONMENT: 50 penance RETRIBUTION: 50% summoning abjurable, but berserking hostiles from (iron troll, deep troll, rock troll, troll, black bear, grizzly bear, stone giant, hill giant, ogre, two-headed ogre); 33% weakening effect (decay, STR loss, paralysis, slowing); 16% fire miscast. 11:34:35 -!- freefall has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:39 but being surrounded by berserk things is really nasty unless you're very strong, even with the scaling 11:34:45 oh wow, he can do stuff other than bad dudes. i didnt know. 11:35:00 it all pales in comparison 11:36:34 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:51 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:19 alefury: re numbers in spell screen: increases cognitove load for little gain: you have to explain what the numbers relate to, and they indicate a level of detail completely unnecessary to play the game. In general, information should be as coarse as possible and as fine as necessary (in my opinion). 11:39:00 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-539-g3d36f90: Steal the target "make test", make it ./crawl --test and do canned ones. (50 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/3d36f90cf066 11:39:00 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-538-g63922d7: A tool to run multiple tests concurrently, or without a terminal. (2 hours ago, 2 files, 96+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/63922d786377 11:39:00 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-537-g1be7ff6: Disable a known failure of a test in --test. (5 hours ago, 2 files, 76+ 76-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/1be7ff606b03 11:39:00 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-536-g0157fcd: Don't spam absdepth0 in --test. (5 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/0157fcd7a571 11:39:00 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-535-g1d0dc99: Disallow lightcyan walls in the Abyss. (5 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/1d0dc9989a71 11:39:00 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-534-g212047b: Clear stat death on wizmode revival. (7 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/212047b42876 11:39:04 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:39:57 03kilobyte * r63922d786377 10/crawl-ref/source/ (Makefile util/fake_pty.c): A tool to run multiple tests concurrently, or without a terminal. 11:39:58 03kilobyte * r212047b42876 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Clear stat death on wizmode revival. 11:39:58 03kilobyte * r3d36f90cf066 10/crawl-ref/source/ (Makefile test/stress/run): Steal the target "make test", make it ./crawl --test and do canned ones. 11:39:58 03kilobyte * r1be7ff606b03 10/crawl-ref/source/test/ (2 files): Disable a known failure of a test in --test. 11:39:59 03kilobyte * r0157fcd7a571 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Don't spam absdepth0 in --test. 11:39:59 03kilobyte * r1d0dc9989a71 10/crawl-ref/source/abyss.cc: Disallow lightcyan walls in the Abyss. 11:44:01 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:35 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:35 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 11:44:35 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO is down for major renovations, back by early September, but try CSZO instead! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 11:45:22 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:34 -!- domi_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54:31 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:57:21 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:59:07 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:34 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:39 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:12 -!- freefall has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:12:49 -!- mthomson is now known as Elynae 12:13:06 -!- Elynae is now known as mthomson 12:14:26 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:52 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:58 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:03 -!- DainHome has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 12:27:41 -!- MICu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:28:32 -!- Tinen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:29:40 03MarvinPA * rc58574578b41 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Only apply Slimify to the main attack target while cleaving 12:29:41 03MarvinPA * rc46bb3a4ecf7 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Don't allow cleaving while confused 12:30:25 -!- Baca has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:31:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:57 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:42:38 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:43:16 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:09 03MarvinPA * r2d52c4abdfed 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/small.des: Don't trap players in lordsloth_entry_two_stooges 12:46:18 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:46:36 -!- Nomi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:47:13 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:50:13 so much rubbish at the forum (spell power bars) :) 12:52:21 -!- mthomson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53:00 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:32 -!- Ten has quit [Client Quit] 13:01:29 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 13:03:38 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:04:49 "forum" as in "tavern"? 13:05:00 Yeah 13:05:23 I'd say, you can't go wrong reading the tavern and doing the exact opposite. 13:05:45 once in a blue moon, someone voices a good idea, but it's then immediately corrected by others 13:06:56 :) 13:07:06 places like that old SomethingAwful massive thread had lots of noise, but were not devoid of insight 13:07:29 (the paywall and lack of organization made it unreadable, though) 13:08:01 -!- Ilirion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:10:13 someone should organize a wiki full of great advice 13:10:40 -!- erisdiscordia has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:34 Dixie: one good player and two devoted people with a clue about wiki organisation would do 13:11:34 badcrawlideas.wikia 13:11:56 -!- mthomson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:12:15 you mean, chaosforge is not enough?!? 13:13:25 poor Kornel 13:14:03 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:14:29 it's not his fault, it's just a feedback loop: good players have that wiki in disregard, and thus never go there to correct stuff 13:14:48 -!- freefall has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:53 No, last I checked, the problem was 13:14:59 You couldn't edit pages without registering 13:15:08 Barrier to entry and all that 13:15:17 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:15:21 as opposed to learndb which sits in the place most top players stay (ie, freenode IRC) 13:15:37 dtsund: mailinator is -----> over there :p 13:15:46 ??? 13:15:54 you currently can't even register through the normal wiki signup page 13:16:07 oughta just move to wikia anyway 13:16:09 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 13:16:15 * dtsund slaps a large trout around a bit with Zannick 13:16:20 have to send off an email to someone, i think normal signup was disabled because of spam 13:16:21 MarvinPA: oh? 13:16:26 heh, nice 13:16:29 "New contributors are always welcome! If you would like to register to for a new account, please send us an email with your preferred username." 13:16:48 -!- lexackson has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:07 -!- Codrus|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:46 i recently fixed a large stream of steady spam signups to another, unrelated forum 13:18:53 by turning off recaptcha 13:19:14 (and switching to a dumber form of captcha) 13:23:02 learndb edit stats: 4322 elliptic, 2204 minqmay, 1451 casmith789, 1392 TGWi, 1380 MarvinPA, 1200 HangedMan, 941 Wensley, 893 mikee, ..., 440 [Hanged_Man], and so on 13:25:54 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:28:02 <|amethyst> IIRC minqmay had some problems trying to contribute to the wiki 13:28:22 don't move to wikia 13:28:27 i have no idea what the context is but don't move to wikia 13:28:32 <|amethyst> maybe I'm misremembering 13:28:46 -!- vev has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:28:56 -!- bracc has quit [Quit: bracc] 13:29:07 elliott: That's why I slapped Zannick, for suggesting that Wikia would be better than something that isn't Wikia. 13:29:23 randart amulets of guardian spirit still dont auto id the spirit in 0.11 13:30:02 dtsund: actually, you slapped the fish 13:30:15 11:16:15 * dtsund slaps a large trout around a bit with Zannick 13:30:19 with me ;) 13:30:45 I submit that slapping is commutative 13:31:02 The impact is the same for both parties. 13:31:17 i think of it more like function application 13:31:20 lol 13:31:20 lexackson: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:31:21 hello 13:31:25 !messages 13:31:26 (1/1) Wensley said (1d 3h 39m 40s ago): !lm . br.end=vaults -tv:>4 13:31:30 There is a Japanese band called the Slight Slappers. 13:31:35 <|amethyst> oh, it was elynae apparently 13:32:08 elliott: i don't think we're moving to wikia because maintaining a wiki is nowhere near anyone's priority list 13:32:13 !lm . br.end=vaults -tv:>4 13:32:13 No milestones for lexackson (br.end=vaults). 13:32:35 !lm Wensley br.end=vaults -tv:>4 13:32:35 No milestones for Wensley (br.end=vaults). 13:32:36 lexackson: by . wensley meant elliott 13:32:42 he copied my line :P 13:32:42 oh 13:32:45 -!- naaaalis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:32:47 (it involves cleaving) 13:33:06 oh cool 13:33:15 !lm elliott br.end=vaults -tv:>4 13:33:29 1. elliott, XL21 HOBe, T:48959 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 13:34:26 hahaha 13:34:28 excellent 13:34:41 cleaving can be a little silly sometimes 13:34:43 hahaha, geez 13:34:45 (I zigged with it) 13:34:53 yeah that's where it really shines 13:35:13 gotta have lots of guys to chop up 13:35:16 I think it could use some improvement, it's a little too good later on IMO, but I didn't get much use out of it earlier 13:35:17 cleave should maybe only hit 5 squares 13:35:29 MarvinPA's idea of hitting five squares, removing the damage penalty for cleaving, and reducing the base damage of the better axes by more sounds good to me 13:35:44 that sounds pretty good 13:35:48 especially since that'd make where you hit more relevant, as opposed to just pressing tab to kill the zig dudes all around you 13:35:55 yes 13:36:03 Hm. It occurs to me that cleave is a Static Discharge nerf. 13:36:09 that was one of the earlier iterations i tired 13:36:10 haha 13:36:15 i dunno if that was my idea first, but multiple fairly sensible people have said roughly the same thing 13:36:17 dpeg really wanted it to be 8 squares 13:36:37 I thought 8 squares would be good too, because you'd have the penalty of being surrounded 13:36:44 but it seems like you just get that much more done that it pays off 13:36:55 8 also sounds fine, oddly enough 13:36:57 * kilobyte still thinks it's best to do at most one non-killing hit (ie, misses are ok, and so is killing someone dead) 13:37:11 i think the most important result of cleave, is that it makes you want to fight out in the open more than in tunnels 13:37:13 elliott: So encouraging players to fight in the open is a bad thing? 13:37:14 they're like two different interpretations of what's going on - is this a big wide slice, or like a spin thing 13:37:28 however the mechanics need to work for that is fine 13:37:35 dtsund: I never said that. 13:37:51 It was implied. 13:38:00 no, it wasn't 13:38:05 ontoclasm: yeah: a flurry of fast blows vs a single wide swing 13:38:06 encouraging fighting in the open is a good thing 13:38:27 but after playing a game with it for five runes, a zig, and counting, I do not think current cleaving is fully well-balanced 13:38:34 yep 13:38:40 kilobyte: The name sounds like big swing, and being part of axes also makes that reasobanle 13:38:49 it is too weak earlier and too strong later on, and it needs more tactical decisions later (hence the fewer squares to make the choice of where to hit more relevant) 13:39:01 yeah totally 13:39:10 if you can hit five squares at once you still can take advantage of being surrounded by alternating blows (if you hit left right left right then you still hit whatever is up and down every turn) 13:39:21 yep 13:39:28 also, it will make it better earlier 13:39:43 because no damage penalty 13:39:59 and earlier you usually fight only 3-5 guys at once 13:40:01 the other problem with the damage penalty is that it's sort of obscure 13:40:06 in that it's not clear how it works 13:40:11 yes 13:40:16 well it's 75% of base 13:40:19 pre-AC, post-AC, and so on -- hard to estimate how much damage it will do 13:40:25 but there are no ingame indications yeah 13:40:37 at the very end 13:40:42 post -AC 13:41:40 100% and 5 targets is more reliable (and easier to understand) 13:41:50 agreed 13:41:56 btw, it is very funny to be fighting something and having all the plants and toadstools arround you just disappear 13:42:02 haha 13:42:04 yes 13:42:10 arguably cleaving should skip them or stop at them, but it is too funny to ruin :P 13:42:19 this is still only for axes, right> 13:42:21 ? 13:42:27 yes 13:42:40 axe cleaving and polearm reaching are the only weapon moves right now 13:42:49 well unless you cound stabbing bonuses 13:43:04 you could count constriction, if you really wanted to 13:43:10 haha 13:43:41 lexackson: ? 13:43:41 should I work up a patch for the changes to cleave? 13:44:02 i'd suggest a whirlwind attack or something for long blades, but that'd probably just step on cleave... 13:44:13 I think it's kind of funny to think of constriction as a weapon move 13:44:14 lexackson: noo, don't ruin cleave before I finish my game :) 13:44:17 hahah 13:44:29 okay 13:44:32 lexackson: think of it as "tactical effect" 13:45:04 dpeg, yeah, I like it 13:45:04 nerfing short blades and doubling everyone's apt (by merging Stabbing and Short Blades) is an option, too 13:45:42 yes, stabbing should be the short blades "move" 13:45:43 there's little point in training Short Blades but not Stabbing, or Stabbing with any other weapon 13:45:49 kilobyte: absolutely 13:45:51 why not just halve everyone's apt and not nerf the weapons themselves? 13:46:12 so it's more-or-less equivalent to training both 13:46:12 _some_ stabbing on Long Blades or spears is fine, of course 13:46:26 does any race have really good sbl and really bad stab or vice versa? 13:46:40 elliott: or a combination of both 13:47:03 !apt sbl 13:47:03 Could not understand "sbl" 13:47:04 !apt short 13:47:05 Short: Ce: -1, DD: -1, DE: 0, Dg: -1, Dr: 0, Dr[black]: 0, Dr[green]: 0, Dr[grey]: 0, Dr[mottled]: 0, Dr[pale]: 0, Dr[purple]: 0, Dr[red]: 0, Dr[white]: 0, Dr[yellow]: 0, Ds: -1, Fe: -99*, Gh: -1, Ha: 3!, HE: 2, HO: 0, Hu: 0, Ko: 3!, Mf: 2, Mi: 1, Mu: -2, Na: 0, Og: -4, Op: 0, SE: -1, Sp: 1, Te: 1, Tr: -2, Vp: 1 13:47:05 !apt stab 13:47:05 Stab: Ce: -3*, DD: -1, DE: 1, Dg: -1, Dr: 0, Dr[black]: 0, Dr[green]: 0, Dr[grey]: 0, Dr[mottled]: 0, Dr[pale]: 0, Dr[purple]: 0, Dr[red]: 0, Dr[white]: 0, Dr[yellow]: 0, Ds: -1, Fe: 3, Gh: 0, Ha: 0, HE: -1, HO: 2, Hu: 0, Ko: 2, Mf: 2, Mi: -1, Mu: -2, Na: 0, Og: -2, Op: 0, SE: 0, Sp: 4!, Te: 1, Tr: -2, Vp: 1 13:47:11 ontoclasm: felids :P 13:47:17 felids can just get their stabbing from UC skill, of course 13:47:24 fe:-99 13:47:46 apparently ogres are quite better at stabbing than short blades 13:47:48 RIP clubstabbing 13:47:53 haha 13:48:07 poor clubstab 13:48:37 well, centaurs have -3 stab but only -1 sbl 13:48:43 ceen buff?? 13:49:09 lexackson: you got it wrong: you don't stab with puny clubs, you stab with GSC. If you do it right, the effect is the same :p 13:49:17 I believe that having two skills is a fake choice. You could say that it's useful as an xp sink. 13:49:26 HE: 2 sbl, -1 stab 13:49:39 I thought only plain clubs got clubtsabbing 13:49:40 kilobyte, oh man, of course 13:49:59 well you can melee stuff with a sabre or qblade without stabbing 13:49:59 Are we talking about removing skills now? 13:50:02 or say, a necromancer using a dagger of pain 13:50:03 oh boy oh boy oh boy 13:50:04 -!- VideoGames has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:50:15 but I don't think anyone will cry much if people who do that also get good at stabbing 13:50:20 since they already have a dagger of pain or whatever 13:51:04 elliott: tiny clubs: you sneak up behind someone, sap him in the head, then he turns around and kills you. GSC: you lumber in without a shred of stealth, you roar, the enemy pees in his pants, then you smash his helmet into his shoes. 13:51:21 well, i had an idea to replace stabbing with "tactics" or something that would affect weapon moves for all weapons 13:51:24 yes but clubs get the special daze stab effect don't they :P 13:51:37 so it would make cleaves better / more likely as well as helping stabbing 13:52:06 but i dunno if it's worth it 13:53:07 it would be a bit strange, intuitively to have tactical skill with a weapon that you have no combat skill with 13:53:10 ontoclasm: I think it's better to not make that a skill 13:53:29 Agreed. 13:53:34 mm 13:54:23 also, stabbing could be a factor of weapon skill + stealth (with a massive per-weapon rule, as currently) 13:54:34 that'd be 2/3 skill rather than 1/2 13:55:13 kilobyte: but Stealth is already part of the stabber's skillset. 13:57:36 yeah 13:57:47 I think weapon skill, and the huge per-weapon rule, would get the most effect for complexity 14:01:46 crash during game / couldn't determine common cause (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6238) by ldierk 14:01:53 There was a bug where confused attacker would target itself and try to cleave is that right? 14:03:14 -!- Tinen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:03:40 There was a commit that disabled cleave while attacker is confused. Would it be better to have the cleave just start random directions or is it best to not cleave while confused? 14:04:16 the problem is that you can use it to hit stuff semi-reliably while confused 14:04:24 I think 14:04:30 although it would be less easy with five-directoin cleave 14:04:32 MarvinPA? 14:04:42 ahh, I see 14:05:16 I'm not sure it's such a problem myself, since you can also use cleaving to hit invis stuff easier, which is IMO a nice perk 14:05:20 but I don't know exactly why MarvinPA did it, so 14:05:57 I can see how it would make confusion not matter most of the time 14:06:05 really only with allies around 14:06:25 just seemed simplest to disable it while confused, yeah 14:06:38 probably the best for balance 14:06:43 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:07:24 though it is funny to see an attacker cleave into his friends, then get pummeled the next turn 14:08:18 MarvinPA: you're fine with 100% damage but only attacking five targets? 14:08:31 it's not Doom, monsters don't consider accidental hits to be an attack on them 14:08:48 dpeg: that sounds like a big buff rather than a nerf to me 14:08:48 yeah, it only happens to player 14:08:51 -!- kwel01 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:09:12 kilobyte: base damage can be adjusted 14:09:23 well i've not played with it much yet, only watched elliott's game 14:09:25 the idea (as far as I see it) is to make the weapons different, and fun to play 14:09:30 the fun we already have :) 14:09:32 it would be a buff earlier and a nerf later coupled with reducing base damage on the better axes a bit more 14:09:37 MarvinPA: ok, so let's wait 14:09:41 say reduce by 2-4 rather than 1 14:09:52 elliott: yes, could even give hand axe the old base damage 14:09:52 adjusting base too much would risk making axes too weak against single opponents 14:09:54 but yes, I don't think it's urgent 14:10:05 trunk can be a bit imbalanced for a while, it is not the end of the world, more playtesting is good 14:10:06 kilobyte: They should be weaker against single opponents. 14:10:21 if axes are about cleaving then it is ok for them to be not so good against single dudes 14:10:28 otherwise they would just be totally amazing 14:10:40 something like M&F seems a good candidate for "best at killing individual enemies" (ignoring high-skill UC) 14:10:48 yes, the question is just: how much base damage is cleaving worth? :) 14:10:49 it's weird for a melee weapon to be an area attack 14:10:50 would it be good for the average melee character to train 2 weapon skills for different situations? 14:10:54 -!- flyingpantsu is now known as flyingpants 14:11:03 kilobyte: perhaps, but it seems to work 14:11:09 lexackson: imo no 14:11:14 also probably nobody would do that anyway 14:11:20 it'd be a huge xp sink that is unlikely to be worth the benefit 14:11:21 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:30 I disagree with elliott. 14:11:31 elliott, not so much with crosstrain 14:11:39 it is not like taking off a few points of base damage will make exec axes bad at killing individual enemies 14:11:42 kilobyte: +-10% are within the confidence interval anyway 14:11:46 elliott, and they'd do it if it were effective 14:11:55 -!- mthomson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:12:04 elliott: I'd go with removing UC altogether if you don't have claws. A grandmaster of martial arts gets more dangerous when wielding a knife, not weaker. 14:13:27 kilobyte: but why not train pure unarmed for forms? 14:13:56 unarmed combat is very weak at low skill but basically the best way to kill things that aren't susceptible to certain brands later on 14:14:02 and it ties in well with transmutations 14:14:08 it seems perfectly fine to me 14:14:20 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:09 In the distant future, I think Light will probably make UC distinct by making non-UC non-quickblade attacks all have 100% delay, regardless of skill 14:15:27 While UC attacks will be allowed to have smaller delay 14:17:00 elliott: transmutations are fine, fisticuffs against a dragon not really 14:17:53 go bash enemies with a book, it'd realistically still do more damage 14:18:05 turning yourself into a dragon obviously works 14:18:05 haha 14:18:10 keyword "realistically" 14:18:18 but this is a game and killing dragons with punches is awesome 14:18:25 but think of the realism 14:18:33 ??realism of crawl 14:18:33 realism of crawl[1/12]: whacking KILLER FUCKING BEES with a halberd and throwing javelins at them 14:18:44 haha 14:19:02 * kilobyte doesn't consider D&D monks to be awesome. Ridiculous at most. 14:19:12 clearly my fists are enchanted with magic anti-dragon power 14:19:24 by the way: it's possible to have the weaker cleave effect (only on kills/misses) standard on axes, and buff cleave as the vorpal effect 14:19:33 hey, I killed a mosquito with an axe in RL once :) 14:19:39 I sort of prefer that, myself 14:19:56 kilobyte, with the flat or the edge? 14:19:58 haha 14:20:01 lexackson: the edge! 14:20:11 oh man sweet 14:20:18 (I still can't believe how I managed to hit it, but I did :p) 14:20:50 i've see a baseball bat used, but this takes the cake 14:20:55 st_: interesting idea 14:21:08 obviously, I did not try again, I don't want to ruin my 100% accuracy record 14:21:27 You should know that kilobyte's other nick is Sikiera and his friends call him The Butcher. 14:21:44 haha 14:22:08 gotta know when to cash your chips 14:22:16 I really suck with a flyswatter, though :( 14:22:47 Maybe you're just holding the swatter sideways 14:26:25 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:18 Macro firing spells reduces mp but does not cast the spell (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6239) by DuxOrbis 14:34:36 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:47 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:54 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:46:26 Eronarn mumbled something about having a bit of time to beat lava orcs into shape 14:47:06 what do you guys think? Are there any issues other than Beogh and only rF+ vs lava swimming? 14:47:22 or more importantly, opposition to the race as a whole? 14:47:55 tension being a quirky gameable mechanic and so on... 14:48:05 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:48:28 Well, I do agree with the sentiment that something that uses tension more actively and centrally would be a good way to tweak and improve the tension formulas in general 14:49:23 I pondered a bit about monster lava orcs (Volcano...), but it's hard to come up with what tension could mean for a monster 14:49:44 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:49:47 mirroring the player's formula boils down basically to "are there any summons nearby?" 14:49:55 Maybe you could just use something simple, like player xl vs. monster HD? 14:49:59 kilobyte: I don't really understand the idea of the species but if everyone else likes it, there's nothing wrong with giving it a try. 14:50:17 With some bit about how injured it is? 14:52:46 dpeg: yeah, I too have troubles seeing what new niches would it fill: lava swimming is recoloured water swimming (ie, going through terrain most monsters can't tread), slowness (newest addition) makes them nagaesque, and the heat aura is basically "lure a group of enemies together for a cheap kill" 14:52:57 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:40 I personally don't see the harm in enabling a few slightly experimental things in trunk, though. I mean, people actually playing them might help smooth out such details or make clearer what niche they DO fill 14:53:50 yeah 14:53:53 If they turn out to be a problem, it's not like it's a release version 14:54:36 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:54:41 they're far better than races such as halflings (a better slings apt! racial rMut! oops... that's all), of course 14:55:01 -!- Tolias has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:55:56 Well, racial rMut is unique (even if not necessarily exciting) and they're also only one of two small playable races (which they do have more than a few similarities with, admittedly) 14:57:25 -!- qoon has quit [Quit: Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?] 14:57:41 on the other hand there are ideas so madly experimental that I'm afraid to even think about balance. Like, djinn are likely to be ridiculously broken (hp+mp = >200 mana you can blow all at once, hunger/glow can be broken too, and so on) 14:57:46 DracoOmega: spriggans 14:57:51 They're tiny, not small 14:58:02 The equipment restrictions are different 14:58:14 Only other small race is kobolds 14:58:53 felids are another madly unhinged race, which turned out to be not _completely_ broken (after lots of tweaking), but they still raise a lot of controversy 14:59:23 Felids just seem unpopular more than controversial, from what I've seen 14:59:28 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:29 Hm. I suspect the kobold/halfling distinction might not survive in Light. 14:59:44 -!- Lawman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:59:57 -!- DainHome has quit [Changing host] 15:00:11 Also, the issue I have with felids is being boring, not being broken per se 15:00:18 so perhaps lava orcs with their copying of nagas and merfolk might fare well, even if they don't have any distinctly new playstyles 15:00:36 I think they're certainly more than different ENOUGH in that regard 15:00:47 <|amethyst> dtsund: Koblings or Demi-Bolds? 15:00:49 dtsund: how being strongly different from any other race is boring? 15:01:02 kilobyte: That's not the issue 15:01:03 |amethyst: :p 15:01:13 I've heard lots of people say boring, yes. I've almost never heard anyone say broken 15:01:34 felids are boring because a large portion of the gameplay is irrelevant to them 15:01:41 But I think that subjectively boring is okay when it's not something that needs to affect most players. If you choose not to play a felid, you never HAVE to. It's not like boring content that every player must experience 15:01:43 The issue is that they give up interesting things (wands, gear) for the sake of being able to brute force with lives 15:01:46 <|amethyst> I think "boring" in that there are fewer avenues for improving your character 15:01:47 also because pretty much all felids play the same 15:01:52 maybe halflings should have racial mut immunity 15:02:02 or rmut 3 i guess 15:02:05 <|amethyst> skills, stats, spells ... but no equipment 15:02:06 Their rMut is already pretty strong 15:02:10 And it does stack with the amulet 15:02:45 BlastHardcheese: weapon selection, armour, and so on, yeah. There are basically only two playstyles: melee (either Trog or TMut), and blaster. 15:03:28 <|amethyst> what about giving them tier 1 stabbing (since no one seems to care about lbl-tier stabbing)? 15:03:40 so repeatedly playing only felids is boring, indeed. 15:03:50 I didn't personally mind felid from a boredom factor. It's just I find them uncomfortably fragile (personally) 15:03:59 |amethyst: as in, full short blades? 15:04:14 <|amethyst> kilobyte: yeah, with or without the dagger bonus 15:04:44 Gogo assassin-kitties! :P 15:06:48 meh with ninjas, let's have pirate kitties! 15:07:06 would they have one or three peg legs? 15:07:16 <|amethyst> the Captain is actually a felid, using Tukima's to make the Cutlass dance 15:07:20 Could be pretty strong, but it might actually be kind of interesting. I can't see it turning them OP by most measures. They have plenty of other shortfalls to compensate for being able to pack good frontal melee and stabbing into the same skill package 15:07:27 mrarr! 15:07:29 <|amethyst> (will require felid + tukima working) 15:07:38 -!- ister has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:08:31 also, there's one mandatory fake translation... 15:09:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: hurry, we have two days 15:09:33 <|amethyst> barely over a day depending on your timezone 15:09:40 too bad, my knowledge of English is writing-only, and that makes coding a dialect next to impossible without mechanically transforming a corpus of sample text (like I did with Durkonese and j�germonsterish) 15:10:37 <|amethyst> kilobyte: port the one from 'filters' :) 15:11:32 Yar? Ye be makin' a pirate version? 15:13:26 dtsund: I see no obvious way to make a mechanical transformation that doesn't suck :( 15:13:40 Arrrrgh 15:13:48 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:49 just reimplement the perl pirate module (that surely must exist but i'm too lazy to google it) 15:14:52 Could look through Minecraft's pirate translation file 15:15:46 bhaak: is there a good one? The one in "filters" mostly adds random shouts at the end of sentences. 15:15:58 <|amethyst> what about giving them tier 1 stabbing (since no one seems to care about lbl-tier stabbing)? 15:16:00 ++ to this fwiw 15:16:16 if felids are going to have stabbing they should at least have relevant enough stabbing that someone might actually want to play a stabby felid 15:17:37 we could special-case a bunch of messages ("Ye plunder 135 pieces o' eight (gained 13).") 15:17:48 kilobyte: i wouldn't know a specific one 15:18:05 "Grog o' healin'" 15:19:46 !lg * feen xl>9 15:19:47 8. heteroy the Fetichist (L20 FeEn), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2012-05-04, with 1798080 points after 45186 turns and 6:01:05. 15:20:00 apparently nobody has actually played feen since the stabbing buff anyway 15:20:17 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:47 you fight like a cow 15:22:07 bhaak: Such things should be imp taunts 15:22:48 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:10 kilobyte: searching on github for "pirate talk" yields several interesting hits. for example: https://github.com/splitbrain/dokuwiki-plugin-pirate/blob/master/renderer.php 15:28:26 Nether = Davey Jones' Locker 15:29:37 bhaak: this seems to be a direct translation of "filters" to php 15:30:25 -!- Namey has quit [Client Quit] 15:33:35 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:35:30 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:48:00 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:13 -!- EatsDungeonBats has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:49:18 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:51:20 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 15:54:09 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:36 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Ukončuji] 15:56:58 -!- Brodo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:04:08 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 16:04:35 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:05:40 Serge (L10 HEWz) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1142 failed. (Bailey) 16:24:54 -!- Neula has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:14 -!- yoshizzz has quit [Client Quit] 16:30:36 -!- munsking has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120907231657]] 16:32:58 -!- CIA-101 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:33:36 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 16:34:54 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:36:47 -!- CIA-67 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:41:49 -!- Orionstein has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:52 -!- Predelnik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:52 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:55:28 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 17:05:46 -!- Predelnik has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:07:40 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:02 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:49 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:18:45 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:52 galehar just suggested on the forum that cleaving size (currently 7) should depend on handedness: hand/war axe gets 3, broad axe gets 5, battle and executioner's gets 7. 17:19:39 that sounds bad because currently cleaving is IMO not good enough early on and too good later 17:19:56 it also seems like adjusting for how many walls you want around you over time would be odd... not sure 17:20:16 I don't think anything should cleave in 7 directions, at least 17:20:46 it makes the decision of where to hit much less relevant, and it's very powerful 17:20:48 elliott: it depends on what you mean by "good enough" 17:21:09 if hand axes get the base damage back, nothing happened 17:21:21 hm? hand axes didn't take any base damage nerf 17:21:28 even better 17:21:36 Also: one handed axes will often go with shields, and shields do not go well with combat in the open. 17:22:22 cleave with your shield, too 17:22:46 well, I think I still prefer the proposal me and MarvinPA thought of independently, mainly for reasons of simplicity... I think clevaing should basically be equally good all the way through, as in you don't want to cower in corridors earlier and fight out in the open later 17:22:59 especially since the vast majority of the playerbase spend their time exclusively in the early game -- cleaving should matter to them 17:23:04 <|amethyst> For some reason I'm reminded of Rygar's shield/yo-yo thing 17:23:21 with that proposal, hand axe would be the gateway weapon... if you go the full way (battle/executioner), then you'd have much better tactical option at, I assume, reduced base damage compared to now. 17:23:21 <|amethyst> Diskarmor, that's it 17:23:39 That proposal was, incidentally, galehar's original suggestion. 17:23:47 (5 targets, full damage) 17:24:19 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:24:59 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:33 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:25:45 -!- Turgon has quit [Client Quit] 17:26:40 -!- Opticrawl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:26:58 keep it simple, 5 targets full damage 17:30:43 * dpeg hopes for MarvinPA and galehar 17:31:41 how does that help the early game cleave? 17:31:48 -!- idiolect has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:57