00:00:29 I never implied he was a god. (The idea was that the High Priest was simply deluded into believing he was one) 00:01:57 Wait, is it possible to make a trap that starts off revealed? 00:02:05 read syntax.txt 00:02:34 oh 00:02:49 (the answer is yes, you can create a "known zot trap" or whatever. But please, read the documentation, it's in there) 00:03:03 I saw it right after I finished typing :| 00:04:04 So no loot in the Hells outside of the final floor? 00:04:30 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-388-g4062d21 (34) 00:04:53 try to avoid it yeah 00:05:18 Debian builds of 0.11 branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-b1-95-g6a8b81e 00:05:32 Are there ANY vaults in the Hells (outside of said final floor) that have loot to begin with? 00:05:37 (This is just out of curiosity) 00:06:55 nothing specific to those branches 00:07:19 got it 00:07:23 door vaults and stuff i guess 00:07:57 also huh someone actually renamed it to door_vault 00:08:18 Really? 00:08:18 hm. I'd like to figure out why my new abyss is so darn thrashy 00:08:22 When did that happen 00:10:17 <|amethyst> %git :/minivault_9 00:10:17 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-284-gfb97b34: s/minivault_9/door_vault/ (3 days ago, 2 files, 5+ 5-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/fb97b34b9249 00:10:49 ahem -- how is monster formed? 00:11:46 and: should Abyssal Stairs be randomly scattered around the abyss, or should we put them all in vaults? 00:12:00 Both. Some random, some in vaults 00:12:06 <|amethyst> bh: They need to do way instain summoner> who kill thier monsters. becuse these monster can't frigth back? 00:12:20 * bh high-fives |amethyst 00:12:43 but really -- where is the mob spawn code? 00:12:56 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:13:16 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:19 abyssal stairs? For real? 00:13:27 ??hydrataur 00:13:27 hydrataur[1/1]: One of four possible unique guardians at lvl 3 of the abyssal stair. Each of his nine necks ends in a javelin throwing humanoid torso, and he also buffs, heals and sprays hellfire. Carries the madness rune. 00:13:29 G-Flex: for real. 00:13:35 It is time 00:14:41 <|amethyst> bh: there's an awful lot of code related to that... mons_place() is one of the more important entry points for that 00:15:35 <|amethyst> spawn_random_monster() maybe if you want something a little higher up 00:15:39 -!- lexackson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:42 -!- VideoGames has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:15:48 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:15:48 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 00:15:52 <|amethyst> place_monster() for something a little further down the call chain 00:16:07 |amethyst: I just want to make monsters sometimes pop into existence in the abyss. 00:17:02 <|amethyst> probably some kind of timed event that calls mons_place() 00:17:28 so then the big ol' event loop in main.cc 00:17:33 <|amethyst> could even handle it as a special case of spawn_random_monsters() 00:17:39 http://pastebin.com/XWcyxLZU 00:18:28 have you tested this? I'm just looking at it, but I suspect this thing places a lot of randarts 00:18:44 good_item tends to do that 00:19:53 basically, you're telling it "either put an ego on this, or make it an artifact" 00:20:05 egos are somewhat pointless here, because you're giving the item to an omniresistant monster 00:20:10 Is the vault good now? 00:20:55 Let me test 00:22:54 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:23:27 god. crawl's call stack can sometimes be a nasty rabbit hole. 00:24:53 Playtesting shows that gooditem is doing nothing 00:25:35 plate armour good_item should produce a plate armour with an ego or artifact, and likely highly enchanted 00:25:43 it might be buggy if you give it to a monster 00:25:48 -!- rufford has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:25:53 Yup it's buggy 00:25:59 in any case, like I said, there's not much of a point - iron devils already resist everything 00:26:14 so giving it a plate armour with rF is a strange idea 00:26:18 True 00:26:19 iron devil (104) | Spd: 8 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-58 | AC/EV: 16/8 | Dam: 14, 14 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(64), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 324 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 00:26:19 %??iron devil 00:26:41 I suppose you might get one that is brought up to rC++, but this is almost irrelevant 00:26:45 Got it 00:27:24 What should be the ratio of trident to demon trident? 00:27:55 doesn't matter too much 00:28:24 demon tridents are good, but you're in hell - you've found one of these already, and if not, go kill some red devils 00:29:10 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:29:26 So might as well make them all demon tridents 00:31:09 http://pastebin.com/BTBrUDHP 00:31:13 Did I miss anything? 00:32:32 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:33:08 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:28 the two "wings" have a lot of empty space, probably could fill those in, but it doesn't matter 00:33:35 the inner runed door is unnecessary in my opinion 00:33:40 bleh -- does someone else want to write a monster placer for the abyss? This is unfun :) 00:33:43 4 Hell Sentinels. 00:33:54 I'd leave it in to be on the safe side 00:33:58 you have glass though, it gives the player a good view of what's ahead 00:34:21 Yes, but if they see YOU and wake up... 00:34:41 fair enough 00:34:59 4 hell sentinels is quite a lot, also I think maybe one of the stairs should be randomized 00:35:06 so the map doesn't have 2 stairs every single time 00:35:19 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:35:23 Done 00:35:50 Hold on, let me put a @ in there 00:37:10 do I need to add special syntax for specifying vault frequency on abyss floors or should `J:5` work? 00:38:07 http://pastebin.com/xTreGeUs 00:38:44 One of these days I'll finally find a reason to make a monster redefinition that isn't pointless/wasteful 00:39:42 it's easy to get lured into abusing it 00:40:35 When SHOULD I use it? 00:40:39 like using it to create a Lich Demonologist 00:40:52 ^So a WEAKER Lich then? 00:40:59 basically. 00:41:18 it's for a four demonologist abyss exit vault 00:41:23 if it really adds something to the vault (either good flavour, or it creates some kind of gameplay you can't get otherwise), you have a reason to use it. 00:41:46 But if it's questionable flavour (like a priest of dispater) or questionable gameplay (a hell sentinel with 300 hp), better to skip it 00:42:02 also, you should always ask, "can I do what I want to with monsters that already exist?" 00:42:19 -!- Sgun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:43:18 Uh, probably always? 00:43:49 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:31 Anyways, I really need to sleep. Going to deposit this off on Mantis and then drop out 00:44:47 that's right. hence > 99% of monsters in vaults being unmodified versions 00:45:32 look at stuff like wizlab_cigoutuvi to see an example where renamed monsters add a lot to the effect of the vault (also note the custom speech lines, descriptions, etc) 00:46:58 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:17 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:51:46 -!- bh has quit [Quit: bh] 00:52:59 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 00:54:07 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:39 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 00:55:15 Dis Stair Vault (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6180) by Lightli 00:55:19 I only saw cigoutuvi for the first time ever on my last HOBe. Got away with virtually no mutations outside of stat rot 1, even without rMut 00:55:45 (spoilers: it's easy with a vampiric exec axe) 00:58:10 -!- Lightli has quit [] 00:58:21 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:04:39 due: that's still fluff only 01:04:40 kilobyte: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 01:05:57 galehar: looks like changing ?RC to target a single item is a terrible idea, in all use cases 01:06:53 especially with plain mummies: it'd strongly reinforce the incentive to keep some shitty summon spell learned, and dance around them when you find one 01:07:08 which can be ridiculous in Tomb 01:07:39 -!- rufford has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:07:46 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:43 there's a rare card that can mass-curse items: it'd make you run to your stash (or worse, do multiple ^F runs if you don't stash) 01:10:22 and for pre-cursed items, it'd merely hurt people in the early game who rolled bad on ?RC generation 01:12:55 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:13:45 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:15:00 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:30 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:17:29 -!- MPR has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:16 kind of hard to say anything positive about plain mummy curses even without the ?RC change: early mummies spawn where you almost always have a few RC scrolls, and anywhere deeper, it's a matter of 2-3 spammals or a charge of an enslavement wand (not on the mummy) 01:22:14 it would work better as a spell they could rarely cast 01:22:46 although it loses flavour that way. better idea would probably be to just base it on other mummy curses: some sort of necro miscast 01:22:59 I guess plain mummies could get something even weaker than that, but related 01:24:12 03kilobyte 07mon-pick * rcea3b0c8744c 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick-data.h: Suppress merge suppression of moths of suppression. 01:24:14 03kilobyte 07mon-pick * rf6ea5cb561a1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-pick.cc mon-pick.h mon-place.cc zotdef.cc): Rename mons_level() to mons_depth(). 01:24:14 03kilobyte 07mon-pick * r3bc4743eecc8 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Remove an outdated comment. 01:24:47 it's actually downright bizarre how regular mummies have a completely different type of death curse than every other mummy... 01:25:01 -1 to spell, +1 to giving them something else 01:25:37 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:28:31 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31:45 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:35:09 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:35:43 kilobyte: There's ability spec :p 01:35:49 kilobyte: I just wrote it as prose 'cos I felt lazy 01:36:06 -!- ttghbbgeww has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:38:06 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:53 * dtsund is listening 01:39:09 I, too, am trying to think of something else to give plain mummies. 01:39:33 looking at necromancy miscasts, even level 1 is a bit harsh (rotting, up to 19 damage) 01:40:17 but I could see a toned down miscast flavour effect. Like, a small amount of damage, or slowing, or summon a shadow, or -1 stat 01:40:33 I think it's fine if it's a negative effect that can be shrugged off 99% of the time; as I see it, the primary purpose for regular mummies is to teach about death curses so they don't blindside the player when the higher mummies show up. 01:41:07 The weakness, here, I think, may be that there aren't enough mummies through the game for this to be a relevant lesson in most games. 01:41:17 the ones I listed are things that happen in a real miscast, just weaker. except for slowing, but that one is ok 01:44:17 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44:34 there probably aren't enough mummies in a single game, but there are enough in the early game. new players spend a lot of time there, and they'll encounter enough mummies to get the point 01:44:42 and there's menkaure 01:52:37 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:37 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:10:40 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:57 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:22:11 -!- evilmike has quit [] 02:24:35 -!- Svankensen has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:26:43 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:27:32 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31:53 -!- Tally has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:35:18 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:43:48 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:06 -!- lorenz371 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:50:08 kilobyte: well, given the overabundance of ?RC, I doubt nerfing them would have such a dramatical effect 02:50:24 and in the early game, you rarely use them to uncurse more than 1 item anyway 02:50:57 although what's evilmike is suggesting for mummy curse is very good 02:51:50 what I like the most about changing ?RC: Ash behaves normally, id mini game improved 02:52:11 of course, if you think id mini game is annoying, you'll probable find it more annoying 02:52:22 Xenophilius (L27 DEFE) ASSERT(!invalid_monster_index(mg.foe) || mg.foe == MHITYOU || mg.foe == MHITNOT) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 1680 failed. (Slime:6) 02:52:23 but as long as the feature is in the game, let's try to improve it 02:53:41 * elliott sees a similarity to curses themselves 02:53:59 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:54:06 the card that mass-curse can be nerfed to make it curse less items. Give it an individual chance per item like item destruction maybe 03:04:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:06:41 -!- odiv has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:11:07 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12:37 -!- VideoGames has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:13:09 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:52 -!- barbs has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:19:10 -!- Impy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:24:35 -!- Gilihad has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:28:43 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:31:16 Water, grass and sand cuts. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6181) by white_noise 03:37:32 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:38:58 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:26 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:58:19 -!- Staplefun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:08:23 Napkin: trunk binary download is still at 0.11-a0. Could you change it to 0.11-b1? 04:08:26 Thanks! 04:09:50 there is no 0.11-b1 built yet ;) 04:10:07 well, there should be :) 04:10:13 -!- Staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:10:21 stone_soup-0.11 is 0.11-b1-94-g6884582 04:13:56 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:14:28 it's building trunk at the moment, of course 04:16:23 isn't what we do usually before release? 04:16:39 build beta instead of trunk to get maximum testing 04:20:45 -!- Silurio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:23:19 the last Windows build is from 2012-08-11 04:25:54 yeah, it's not even building trunk anymore 04:26:09 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 04:27:40 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:17 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:50 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:36:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:49:32 -!- DainHome has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 04:53:35 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:58:04 -!- sssimon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:00:03 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-388-g4062d21 05:06:12 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:53 -!- DracoOmega has quit [] 05:25:36 -!- fourfall has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:03 -!- freefall has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:27:13 -!- fourfall is now known as freefall 05:33:56 -!- flash_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:39:50 wtf boulder beetle trap vault in d10 05:40:24 no warning what so ever? how are you supposed to survive that without spoilers? 05:42:13 boulder beetles used to be mostly harmless before 05:43:02 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:43:09 well, i shouldn't have, but i thought.. oh well 05:43:29 anyways, trunk is being built, just not shown on the website 05:47:10 you're not 05:47:29 boulder beetle vaults are like that, you die 05:50:41 is that a new philosophy? 05:52:41 ask the vault designer 05:53:39 there are one or two mean new trap vaults 05:54:28 d10 sounds a bit early, but theyre not *that* fast so you can often teleport or blink at least 05:54:55 or well, thats how i rationalize it 05:55:11 !lg * ckiller=boulder beetle cv=~0.11 05:55:12 134. Napkin the Slicer (L11 KoAs), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, rolled over by a boulder beetle in D:10 (boulder indie) on 2012-09-06, with 6456 points after 14199 turns and 2:01:20. 05:55:23 !lg * ckiller=boulder beetle cv=~0.11 s=place 05:55:24 134 games for * (ckiller=boulder beetle cv=~0.11): 23x D:8, 15x Lair:7, 14x Lair:8, 13x D:7, 13x D:9, 9x D:10, 8x Lair:6, 7x D:11, 5x Lair:4, 4x Lair:5, 3x D:1, 3x Lair:3, 2x D:6, 2x D:12, 2x Orc:2, Orc:1, D:17, D:2, Vaults:7, Vaults:8, Spider:4, Vaults:5, Orc:4, D:20, D:13, Spider:1 05:55:33 !lg * ckiller=boulder beetle cv=~0.11 s=map 05:55:33 134 games for * (ckiller=boulder beetle cv=~0.11): 74x , 26x boulder corridor run, 23x boulder indie, 2x guppyfry shop earth, 2x boulder dual corridor run, wormcave, wad statue garden, einodemon crawler minivault, hangedman arrow trap, vaults vault, rock pile, shiori entry maze 05:57:00 !lg * ckiller=boulder beetle cv=~0.11 s=place,map 05:57:01 134 games for * (ckiller=boulder beetle cv=~0.11): 23x D:8 (12x boulder corridor run, 6x boulder indie, 3x , guppyfry shop earth, wad statue garden), 15x Lair:7 (14x , boulder dual corridor run), 14x Lair:8 (13x , wormcave), 13x D:7 (8x boulder indie, 5x ), 13x D:9 (6x boulder corridor run, 4x , 3x boulder indie), 9x D:10 (4x boulder corridor run, 3x , 2x boulder indie), 8x Lair:6 (8x ), 7x D:11 (... 05:57:55 doesnt seem that terrible i guess? im not sure. 05:58:07 at least they kill people now 06:02:00 i find current boulder beetles nuts all round, but i don't know how to make my case 06:02:00 i had once an instance where i kill something that was standing between me an it, then the beetle "hit" me from two squares away and something else took the place of what i had just killed 06:02:00 i don't know how to make sense of that 06:02:00 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:02:10 and those "indy vaults" come very early for the amount of damage these things can do 06:03:22 absolutego: that got fixed iirc 06:03:40 the part where they got a ton of actions for no reason or whatever 06:04:45 Windows builds of pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-b1-95-g6a8b81e 06:11:43 -!- Gerah has quit [Client Quit] 06:12:52 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: nipaa~] 06:18:18 -!- ttghbbgeww has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:11 -!- ZRN has quit [] 06:28:46 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:38 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:35:28 due: only the ancient zyme seems to be clear enough to consider implementation (bestows sickness on everyone in LOS, poison+rot melee) 06:36:49 tentacled starspawn sounds like a tentacled monstrosity with Malign Gateway as an "escape" spell, but that's only a guess what you could mean 06:39:41 thrashing could be interpreted as something that moves randomly, with only a bias towards its foe's direction, and does damage to whoever was in the place it happens to move 06:40:16 (due to technical issues with multiple monsters on one spot, I assume it's only a normal attack, or perhaps a trample attempt) 06:42:43 starcursed mass has some area-effect paralysis (or paralysis-or-fear?) spell that's negated by silence, but no idea what else it does (a regular monster otherwise?) 06:44:31 I can't quite make any sense from lurking horror (what's that "lurking" and "arousing"?) 06:44:56 elliott: did that thing where they could move through other monsters get fixed too 06:46:23 and wretched star: you wrote nothing, but ideas on IRC sounded like a fireball-less orb of fire, except for a mention of temp mutations, which could be somewhat better 06:50:35 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:12 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 06:54:58 absolutego: idk, I think so 06:59:17 a wandering mushroom ai monster for the abyss would be great 06:59:40 (which I heard lurking horror was supposed to be) 07:01:41 other things I think would work well for there: trapdoor spider hiding, boulder beetle eating 07:03:50 I love sickness per LOS idea 07:06:55 I think lots of ghosts could use " in LOS", such as temporary skill lowering (a kind of a fear effect) 07:11:09 in this case I guess it would linger for a bit after moving away from the zyme 07:13:04 wretched star could have an OTR halo :D 07:14:41 actually, what about withering? flavored statdrain 07:15:37 I'd say rot, like in due's idea, matches the theme a lot better 07:15:48 (zyme) 07:16:43 kilobyte: sure, the zyme sounds fine, i am thinking about the star 07:17:24 actually, if we want to be really evil: what about making the star be a terrible warping influence on flesh? recycle jiyva code! 07:17:41 no damage, but stat shuffling and temp mutations 07:18:30 use the current logic, but speed it up and skew it towards extremes 07:18:45 also maybe towards bad muts 07:21:28 temp mutations could be enough 07:22:33 kilobyte: most mutations aren't interesting enough for that 07:22:33 whereas stat shuffling will affect many characters 07:22:57 being suddenly unable to cast half your spells is pretty noticeable 07:23:18 I recall this proposed for another monster somewhere in the past: a number of bad mutations, killing the monster removes them immediately, merely running away makes them go away only after some time (it's in the Abyss, not killing the monster of often not your fault) 07:23:50 +5 int +5 dex -10 str are mutations, too :p 07:24:10 those can be cured though 07:24:40 kilobyte: yes but you are unlikely to hit that combo 07:25:02 also, i didn't mean perma stat shuffling (maybe a point or two at the end is fine, but it should generally go back to the way it was) 07:25:08 absolutego: temp 07:25:42 Eronarn: yeah, I meant them special-cased to assign big numbers 07:25:59 kilobyte: i feel like it'd be better to just use jiyva's mechanic rather than trying to reimplement it with mutations 07:26:15 jiyva is not temporary, and slow-acting 07:26:20 it also makes it clearer that it is its own weird thing, since no monsters do that 07:26:51 you're not going to sit with the star in view long enough to shuffle meaningful amount of stats 07:28:11 there was an idea to turn draining into temporary skill reduction 07:28:23 that would be nice imo, current draining is dumb 07:28:38 mostly because its so irrelevant 07:28:55 it was better when it affected the xp pool 07:30:32 losing a level in a few hits is not quite irrelevant 07:31:49 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:37:17 -!- MPR has quit [Changing host] 07:37:35 03edlothiol * r9fa57824fd46 10/crawl-ref/source/tags.cc: Regenerate tile_flv every time a level is loaded. 07:37:36 03edlothiol * rf48b22095d14 10/crawl-ref/source/tileview.cc: Show items on traps again in tiles. 07:39:47 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.11 * r7b7050235bcc 10/crawl-ref/source/tileview.cc: Show items on traps again in tiles. 07:39:47 kilobyte: i meant in contrast to the stat shuffling (which i understood would be permanent) 07:41:56 -!- MPR has quit [Client Quit] 07:47:26 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:49:48 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:52:19 -!- MPR has quit [Changing host] 08:00:34 -!- Datparadox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:04:34 kilobyte: what's the plan for option list syntax? 08:08:29 <_dd> new monster idea: yakclops - half yaktaur, half cyclops 08:08:44 <_dd> yaktaur with one eye 08:09:16 do they fire large rocks with their crossbow? 08:09:27 <_dd> no, they throw crossbows 08:10:24 <_dd> due to bad genetics they have deranged brains, they're uncapable of using tools... but they do their best to honour their yaktaur heritage 08:10:33 <_dd> also their aiming is horrible due to lack of depth vision 08:10:49 galehar: there are several types of lists, which seem to need different rules 08:11:07 _dd: how come cyclopi can aim quite well then? 08:11:15 the ones which are ordered and the others, right? 08:11:20 <_dd> magic 08:11:28 <_dd> a wizard did it 08:11:56 <_dd> i've always wondered though 08:11:58 <|amethyst> cyclops have evolved to determine depth by focal length rather than binocular vision... maybe yakclopes have not 08:12:03 <_dd> do cyclops have one nostril? 08:12:13 <_dd> because that would be weird 08:12:14 <|amethyst> s/ops/opes/ 08:13:28 cyclopuses 08:15:20 kilobyte: we need 3 operators to operate on lists: append, remove and clear. To edit an ordered list, you remove or append. For insert you need to clear 08:15:31 otherwise it's too complicated 08:16:05 cyclopi 08:16:15 cyclopodes (<-- new player race for 0.13) 08:16:15 also, some lists accept comma-separated lines 08:17:35 -!- Laan has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:17:50 <|amethyst> galehar: what about a syntax for "prepend" too? 08:17:53 you mean like fire_order? 08:18:20 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:30 |amethyst: why not, but what symbol? I'd rather keep it simple 08:18:58 so we want backward compatible? 08:19:03 <|amethyst> vim uses ^= for that 08:19:12 = means the same as += means append 08:19:20 |amethyst: ok, why not 08:19:26 -= for remove 08:19:37 galehar: for ordered lists, = and += work differently 08:19:38 can also have option +value -value 08:19:42 <|amethyst> what if foo = clearns 08:19:45 <|amethyst> clears 08:20:03 |amethyst: yeah, I agree. = with nothing after should clear 08:20:09 I wonder if ordered lists couldn't be considered string options 08:20:31 <|amethyst> which options are ordered? 08:20:37 <|amethyst> fire_order of course 08:20:47 -!- TheUnlifeAquatic has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:21:03 <|amethyst> dump_order I suppose 08:21:08 there's tile_layout_priority 08:21:19 which I plan to rename tile_panels 08:21:48 http://sprunge.us/WJGP 08:22:03 and add something like stat_area to make it configurable (ordered too) 08:22:38 (doesn't include tile lists, that file predates them; also, I forgot what some remarks mean :p) 08:28:22 something like "clear list_name" seems clearer than "list_name =" 08:28:22 so, = means initialize for ordered list but append for other lists, right? 08:28:22 seems like a good reason to break backward compatibility and gor for simplicity and consistency 08:28:22 = initialize a list. += append. -= remove. ^= prepend. 08:28:22 stuff like trapwalk_safe_hp might need to be considered as sets instead of list 08:28:22 (though I guess "list_name = foo \n list_name += bar" is clear, and outright clearing a list is rarer) 08:28:22 you don't actually add or remove to the list, just change the values 08:28:22 trapwalk_safe_hp is more of a map, isn't it? 08:28:22 from trap type to HP 08:28:22 trapwalk_safe_hp[dart] = 20 08:28:22 elliott: yes you're right 08:28:22 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:29:36 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:36 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 08:29:36 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO is down for major renovations, back by early September, but try CSZO instead! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 08:30:43 elliott: let's say you can use it either like a list of tuple (= to set, key:value) or map syntax to change a value 08:31:27 <|amethyst> galehar: woudln't that be trapwalk_safe_hp.dart = 20 ? 08:31:38 kilobyte: "would you make" or "will you make"? Someone needs to implement it... 08:31:45 <|amethyst> to match colour and channel 08:33:02 |amethyst: good point 08:33:30 galehar: mmm... on second thoughts, I guess it would probably best just to have the map-based syntax for it, for simplicity 08:33:45 especially if the number of traps is decreasing, a few more lines in a config file aren't a big deal 08:33:45 -!- Tolias has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:33:48 we can also allow the map syntax but that's work... :) 08:34:01 -!- Medra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:35:06 by map-based syntax, I mean what |amethyst said 08:37:16 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:42:31 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:50 a few options use something map-based, with a dot 08:43:36 most have the map as key:value, though 08:45:11 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:54 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:33 we can just allow both syntax 08:55:30 not a big fan of that 08:57:03 allowing just map syntax is simpler in some respects -- for instance, if you do "trapwalk_safe_hp = dart:20" and don't specify anything else, what does that mean? is it consistent with how setting lists works? 08:58:22 if you do that, it remove the settings for all other traps 08:59:12 <|amethyst> which sets them back to the default, or sets them to zero, or sets them to infinity? 08:59:27 -- was typing something, but what |amethyst said 08:59:29 the line in the current default init.txt has all the traps on one line 08:59:49 (and is there no way to remove a trap setting other than using the non-map syntax?) 09:00:08 which disable the option for those traps. So they will always prompt no matter what 09:00:17 <|amethyst> oh, I see, "default" is 0 09:00:24 <|amethyst> in a sense 09:02:27 <|amethyst> err, infinity rather 09:02:27 elliott: trapwalk_safe_hp -= blade 09:02:27 ok 09:02:27 <|amethyst> right now the option is treated as a string it seems 09:02:27 <|amethyst> it's handled entirely in lua 09:02:27 yeah, I was talking in theory 09:02:27 the question of who and when implement it is still open it seems 09:03:13 maybe the ones which are treated as strings can be kept this way for now 09:03:45 we'll change them to lists eventually, but that's not as urgent as releasing 0.11 IMO 09:05:28 <|amethyst> honestly, I worry it's a bit late in 0.11 to break people's config files 09:05:39 <|amethyst> since it's been on the server for several weeks now 09:05:46 <|amethyst> s 09:06:22 <|amethyst> what about just adding option = to clear and leaving everything else as it is? 09:06:35 <|amethyst> and fixing things in 0.12 where we have more time for testing 09:15:20 Lawman0 (L8 KoHu) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4592: map bailey_axe_4 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 09:15:20 sounds a lot better than completely changing config file syntax just before release, yes 09:15:20 -!- voker57_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:53 the problem is in even ALLOWING stuff = value multiple times 09:17:04 since that means another compat break with 0.12 09:18:54 <|amethyst> I was thinking another compat break in 0.12 is better than another compat break now, shortly before release 09:19:22 <|amethyst> could add a deprecation warning about option = 09:19:39 <|amethyst> err, option = list that is 09:19:58 <|amethyst> "this will change its meaning in 0.12, we recommend using +=" 09:22:08 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:22:08 -!- cbus has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:22:08 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:22:08 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:18 <|amethyst> working on something, but there are an awful lot of options 09:25:25 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:27:38 |amethyst: not +=, it would suggest you're adding to the value 09:27:50 <|amethyst> err 09:28:01 which makes sense for an order list, but not elsewhere 09:28:06 <|amethyst> I thought the problem was that foo = bar means the same as foo += bar for many options 09:28:18 that too 09:28:42 or worse, "additional_macro_file += foo" doesn't look right 09:29:34 -!- Impy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:29:44 <|amethyst> My thoughts for 0.11 were to: 1. allow using foo = (with no field) to reset list options 2. if you use foo = bar in a way that means "list append", give a warning (but only once so as not to be spammy) 09:30:48 this would require strange constructs like "include += ~/crawl/some_config_file" 09:31:09 that makes sense if you s/include/includes/ 09:31:13 or s/include/included_files/ or whatever 09:33:43 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:35:16 just give some way to clear lists for 0.11 so people can get rid of the defaults 09:35:33 and do whatever syntax changes you think would be nice in 0.12 09:35:50 if youre worried about = overload, just make it understand "clear listname" 09:36:38 the important part is that MarvinPA can get his rcfile to work properly, then everyone else can copy it and be happy, like always :P 09:37:06 i guess i didnt copy it, but i did steal large parts :) 09:37:07 nobody using marvinparc could be happy :p 09:37:24 is this a lame attempt at elliotrc marketing 09:38:09 hah 09:38:25 include shouldn't have = neither +=, it doesn't make any sense 09:38:30 just include file 09:39:25 and yeah, let's just add "option =" to clear the default and release 0.11 already 09:47:45 -!- User82 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:14 -!- barbs has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:02:11 <|amethyst> I'm working on it, but I don't know if I'll have a chance to finish today 10:02:50 <|amethyst> I've only done five or six options so far and already I have a list of TODOs and questions for 0.12 :) 10:04:45 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:25 |amethyst: thanks! 10:05:59 no worries, it's not like we have any schedule to keep up with 10:07:28 <|amethyst> There are plenty of options that should, but do not, take -= 10:07:30 <|amethyst> I'm not fixing those but I am leaving TODO comments 10:07:40 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:07:41 ok 10:07:41 -!- User82 has quit [Quit: User82] 10:09:52 <|amethyst> my plan for the warning is something like "Your configuration uses = to append to a list option. This syntax will override the option in a future version; use += to append. Affected options are: " 10:10:17 <|amethyst> where the list contains those list options for which they used = to append *and* where the list wasn't already empty 10:12:36 that's quite verbose, but probably ok. Players will edit their options just to get rid of the message :) 10:12:45 and that's what we want 10:15:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:38 people ignore the lua include warnings :p 10:19:17 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:22 Hey, due gave a sign of life at the wiki. 10:22:06 alefury: do your digest duties also include the dev wiki? :) 10:23:08 i mention a few wiki things, but its just "for details, go there" 10:23:21 -!- Laan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:50 just saw an idea for a new wall type, which would be interesting (slits) 10:24:04 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:27 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:26:03 i guess i could make a blanket statement basically saying "hey, check out the dev wiki, people wrote stuff there" 10:26:20 not going to summarize any articles though, most have their own summary anyway 10:26:42 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:33 alefury: wasn't serious about it 10:28:33 (ignore dev wiki) 10:28:40 linking to it so i dont have to explain stuff is good imo, but the list of recent edits is quite good, so a digest isnt really needed 10:29:27 or, if you like it, add an entry about slits: when standing next to it, behaves like open space; from afar, can only see squares adjacent to square; only tiny monsters can pass through (bees, bats, so bat form). Caution: asymmetric sight, so to be used with care, but would be cool in baileys. 10:29:44 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 10:29:45 back later 10:30:36 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:30:41 dpeg: my ?RC nerf proposal met some resistance based on the fact that you can leave tomb or mummy zig floor with your whole inventory cursed 10:30:53 ah 10:30:56 well 'later 10:32:32 galehar: how do you like my proposal to change mummy curses? 10:32:59 too complicated? or other concerns? 10:33:15 it's a bit complicated, but it might work 10:33:37 the complexity is mostly hidden from the player 10:33:43 it's really easy to get around regular mummy death curses anyway though 10:33:46 on the other hand, some think that item cursing just isn't an interesting effect from mummy curses 10:33:51 -!- freefall has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:33:59 it's an annoying effect, if that counts 10:34:08 temporary universal curse might be cool 10:34:12 I was curious about dpeg's opinion on that 10:34:17 it's not necessarily a bad effect but mummies are a nonthreat pretty much the entire game 10:34:31 evilmike was suggesting earlier to change it 10:34:35 <+evilmike> but I could see a toned down miscast flavour effect. Like, a small amount of damage, or slowing, or summon a shadow, or -1 stat 10:34:35 -!- _159 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:34:58 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:35:03 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:16 toned down greater mummy curses would at least be much less annoying 10:35:28 also much less dangerous? 10:35:37 slow is dangerous 10:35:43 slow is pretty bad unless it's very short, yes 10:35:48 well, if ?RC is nerfed, you can just be more careful with killing mummies too 10:36:03 galehar: that's the problem, yes 10:36:09 it's trivial but tedious to not get cursed by them 10:36:10 currently: only kill the mummy by jumping through hoops. new would be: kill the mummy last so the curse doesnt matter 10:36:45 galehar: anywhere where that is possible, yes. even tomb can be done with very few curses. not deep mummy zig floors, though. 10:37:00 just no time for that summoning crap 10:37:11 does making them suicide with control undead work? 10:37:23 i think i heard that still curses you, but i never tried it 10:37:55 "have this spell on your list or have fun uncursing every item in your inventory individually" would still not be good, though 10:38:42 well, I don't see it as a good reason not to change ?RC 10:39:04 VengefulCarrot (L27 SENe) ASSERT(in_bounds(where)) in 'misc.cc' at line 1142 failed. (Coc:7) 10:39:35 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 10:40:25 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:40:31 its not gamebreaking, just incredibly annoying 10:41:10 I guess the only reason it's still in the game is flavour. "Curse". And that it's harmless because ?RC are plentiful. 10:41:48 plain mummy curses could always just go, yeah 10:42:24 they do make mummy zig floors a bit more interesting, but also more annoying, and are irrelevant pretty much everywhere else 10:42:27 i certainly wouldnt miss them 10:42:35 could replace it with something that works better later maybe (spell, los effect?), but it's no good as-is for sure 10:42:48 mummy (15M) | Spd: 6 | HD: 3 | HP: 15-24 | AC/EV: 3/6 | Dam: 20 | 07undead, 10doors, evil | Res: 06magic(20), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 18 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:42:48 <|amethyst> %??mummy 10:43:29 MarvinPA: that's what evilmike suggested earlier 10:43:36 <+evilmike> but I could see a toned down miscast flavour effect. Like, a small amount of damage, or slowing, or summon a shadow, or -1 stat 10:43:59 he was saying necro miscast were too tough, even at level 1 10:44:27 yeah, that'd be even more worth doing silly things to avoid if anything (slowing would, at least) 10:44:35 what about summoning a permanent 5 or short duration temporary 4? 10:44:58 hm, having one permanent and one temporary would suck though 10:45:30 ??4 10:45:30 4[1/1]: The weaker {common demon}s: {blue devil}, {iron devil}, {orange demon}, {red devil}, {rotting devil}, {sixfirhy}, {hellwing}. 10:46:00 hm, 4s may not be good i guess 10:47:08 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:51 4s would not be good 10:50:53 what about removing plain mummies from Tomb and Zigs? Keep them only in the early game when their curse cannot be trivially avoided. 10:52:03 i usually just trivially run away from them if i cant avoid the curse or remove it without worrying about it 10:52:28 btw, im not sure your ?RC change would be good on its own 10:52:34 how often do you wear more than one cursed item? 10:53:08 <|amethyst> I often do during the ID game 10:53:09 it seems to me that it would just make me press an extra key and be otherwise identical 10:53:14 i think this is also about allowing to uncurse unworn items 10:53:27 <|amethyst> because I read infrequent scrolls first, so usually hit all three curses before remove curse 10:53:36 and still maintain that, given the above, i personally would not consider it a nerf at all 10:53:36 mhh, after iding a bunch of scrolls, yes 10:54:08 but after that it usually comes up from use-id, which i tend to do when i find the item, and if its cursed i just uncurse it right away 10:54:24 <|amethyst> ash 10:54:30 I agree that it's not really a nerf. Maybe I shouldn't call it that way then. 10:54:39 it's a slight nerf 10:54:51 ash uncursing/cursing is already good imo 10:54:55 you'll have to use a little bit more on average 10:55:15 the fact that ash uncursing is special-cased is not really good IMO 10:55:20 there's no reason for it 10:55:28 basically i think its a nerf where no nerf is needed, irrelevant otherwise. the most interesting effect is the one on scroll id. 10:55:53 id prefer just reducing ?RC 10:56:10 <|amethyst> right, it wouldn't be necessary with the change; it would be a slight nerf to ash because you couldn't batch up equipment swaps 10:56:25 |amethyst: huh? 10:56:32 as I said on the tavern, I'm more concerned about the 2 positive side effects: Ash ?RC usage becomes normal, id minigame is improved 10:57:08 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: if I have two cursed rings, both of which I want to swap out, now I need one ?RC and two ?CJ. With the change I would need two ?RC and two ?CJ 10:57:31 i thought there's still chance of getting 2 or 3 uncurses from one scroll 10:57:42 just do it then i guess, changing plain mummy curses or reducing their number in the late game (possibly to 0) at the same time 10:57:46 <|amethyst> read "need" as "need in the worst case" then 10:57:46 |amethyst: one might be enough. or not. 10:57:57 ah. :) 10:58:23 well ash could boost ?curse foo to also provide one to three curses maybe? 10:58:40 <|amethyst> don't know if that's necessary 10:59:03 for weapon obviously not, for armour however i frequently run into problems early 10:59:33 currently, Ash conduct is relevant tactically, but strategically there's not much pressure. You usually have enough scroll to upgrade when you want. 11:00:29 galehar: their curse can be trivially avoided in the early game, if anything zig is the only place where it can't be 11:00:29 well, yeah, can be hard in the beginning though 11:01:12 even early on you can either walk away or use cheap summons or enslave something to kill them with, zig's the only place you can't really do that 11:01:47 <|amethyst> do people usually (ever?) drop rings/weapons/armour before entering ossuary? 11:01:51 (fr more ash altar vaults guarded by plain mummies) 11:02:05 <|amethyst> I never do, but then again I don't drop scrolls before volcano either 11:02:25 i did that like once, some ossuaries don't even have many plain mummies so you're gambling anyways 11:07:15 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 11:11:57 -!- Palyth_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:13:13 |amethyst: a brave man 11:16:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 11:22:24 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:03 well i still see people carrying three scrolls of acquirement in zot 11:26:50 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 11:27:43 orb acquirement 11:27:50 it seems to me that it would just make me press an extra key and be otherwise identical 11:27:56 it could always just assume the single item if there's only one 11:28:01 (but I dislike this for UI consistency reasons) 11:28:04 me too 11:28:10 (same annoyingness as R not prompting when you only have one jewellery item on) 11:28:26 btw, i noticed that it wouldnt really be more annoying for zig mummy floor uncursing, at least for console players 11:28:37 after all, currently you have to equip all the stuff you want to uncurse 11:28:51 in tiles you can quickly do that with the mouse, so it slipped my mind 11:29:07 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:29:16 needing 20+ ?RC after every mummy zig floor still wouldnt be cool though 11:29:57 depending on how many rings you have you already need that many! 11:30:05 * elliott is reminded of playing mummy floors on zigrobin 11:30:18 depending on how many mummy floors you had you won't need that many! 11:30:20 ftfy 11:31:38 late mummy floors usually cursed everything no matter what IME 11:31:54 do you uncurse everything no matter what though before leaving the floor? 11:32:24 i only carry stuff into zigs that i expect im going to need, so i usually uncursed everything 11:32:49 -!- erisdiscordia_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:32:50 but yeah, usually you just need to be able to switch to, not from, so delaying the uncursing until you need it would be better strategically 11:32:57 -!- stenno has quit [Changing host] 11:38:55 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:39:12 -!- _159 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:45:41 ChrisOelmueller: no 11:45:50 ChrisOelmueller: but if the goal is to uncurse things, then yes, a bunch of remove curse is needed 11:45:56 i did swap rings fairly frequently, so... 11:46:11 the main problem was that it had too many good rings :( 11:46:46 tsouns (L10 HEGl) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4592: map bailey_axe_4 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 11:50:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:53:00 more bailey secret doors?? 11:53:39 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 11:54:06 seems like it, |amethyst says he rebuilt after the fix 11:54:30 not sure everybody was forced to transfer saves however 11:54:34 that map still has an = in it, that means secret door, no? 11:54:49 yep 11:54:50 oh, then yes it does 11:55:32 I can't commit it away right now myself but someone should :P 11:58:05 MarvinPA: around? 11:58:22 galehar: same ^ 11:58:31 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:58:53 why not simply make = into runed doors (but have them log a message still)? 11:59:00 so it just complains rather than crashing :p 11:59:15 or is the only way to complain in -dev a crash? 11:59:50 i think so 11:59:56 yes, crashing is the only way to complain automatically... presumably printing an error message in-game would be fine as well since people would report it though 12:00:14 -!- Raycaster has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:00:14 -!- [1]Raycaster is now known as Raycaster 12:02:09 hmm, what happened to the wizmode command that let you go to a specific portal vault map 12:02:15 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:05:18 elliptic: I wouldn't count on it :P but yes it would probably be sufficient 12:05:32 also how do you make traps be pre-discovered, since this map has fixed traps also? it is "known whatever"? 12:05:52 I think it's "known foo trap", yes 12:12:02 <|amethyst> !lm tsouns crash -log 12:12:03 2. tsouns, XL10 HEGl, T:9704 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tsouns/crash-tsouns-20120906-164344.txt 12:13:49 <|amethyst> This ersatz secret door could probably stand to be a regular door 12:14:02 already done :P 12:14:08 <|amethyst> yay 12:14:34 <|amethyst> elliott: that's one reason not to have made = do runed_door, at least initially 12:14:52 <|amethyst> to make it more likely to catch such things 12:15:08 03MarvinPA * r08be67ffc47d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/bailey.des: Despoilerify another bailey 12:15:15 |amethyst: well, it'd do a runed door *and* print an in-game scary message 12:15:17 saying to report a bug 12:15:46 <|amethyst> maybe we should have a "bug" milestone 12:15:55 e.g. "Program bug! The map foo_bar_bailey is buggy. Please report this at [mantis URL]." 12:16:12 and maybe a "(Your game is still playable.)" thing so people don't get scared :p 12:16:18 a bug milestone sounds like the ideal thing, though 12:16:46 (actually, = should probably do a regular door instead, since secret doors are used far beyond the scope of runed doors, and the worst that can happen is monsters will open it a little early) 12:17:07 <|amethyst> the worst that can happen is someone autoexplores into a death trap 12:17:16 (Your game is still playable, but will invalidate itself unless a bug is reported during the next 4 hours) 12:17:25 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:39 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 12:17:47 |amethyst: ok, that too :p 12:18:40 |amethyst: but AIUI kilobyte has done stress-testing of the main dungeon generator, anyway 12:18:40 so they should only be left in portal vaults, and who autoexplores dangerous portal vaults? 12:19:09 -!- DainHome has quit [Changing host] 12:23:57 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:15 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:51 -!- y2s82_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:34 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:49 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:00 ??test 12:36:00 summon butterflies[4/5]: 12Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 9Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 4Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 8Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 11Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ7 Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 6Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ6 10Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 12:39:00 -!- Wensley has quit [Client Quit] 12:40:44 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:43:01 -!- BanMido_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:44:59 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:19 ??test[2] 12:49:19 test[2/37]: Its difficult to make an editing entry if I cant type / whichcan be represented by \\\/ the dollar sign represents the end. You can just use \@ instead. 12:52:58 -!- Oddtwang has quit [Client Quit] 12:53:20 learn add good_ideas swapping summon_butterflies[4] and summon_butterflies[5] to mess with Wensley 12:55:20 ??summon_butterflies[5] 12:55:20 summon butterflies[5/5]: Especially hilarious when ghosts get to use it; see !lm SGrunt 260 -tv:<9.5:>1.0 or !lm SGrunt defe ghost 11 -tv 12:58:48 -!- notthepope has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:08:38 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:12:55 -!- Ystah_1432 is now known as Ystah 13:17:48 -!- namad7 has quit [] 13:18:00 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:22:14 03MarvinPA * r9d6a4c80e094 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Convert Jiyva's jelly prayer into an ability 13:22:49 <|amethyst> quick, someone tell Lightli they removed Jiyva's pray ability 13:23:41 MarvinPA: aw, I was working on a patch for that 13:24:10 gotta code faster than that 13:24:20 given the speed of crawl 13:24:21 sorry :P 13:25:11 MarvinPA: how about "Paralyse Slimes" as a name? "Jelly Paralyse" seems a bit ungrammatical/misleading 13:25:19 (well, my patch called it "Communal Prayer", but I guess that's a bit vague) 13:25:52 that'd probably be better, yeah 13:26:15 (although more flavourful for the messages I guess) 13:26:25 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:54 Not that I ever used it, but why did the effect of Jiyva's prayer get removed? 13:27:18 elliott don't 13:27:19 please 13:27:23 argh 13:27:44 <|amethyst> that was my suggestion, sorry :) 13:27:45 MarvinPA: but |amethyst told me to 13:28:03 :( 13:28:34 lightli read backlog commit log etc 13:28:40 nothing interesting happened 13:28:46 ok 13:29:03 It's just habit to ask you people at this point. Sorry 13:29:38 !swap summon_butterflies[4] summon_butterflies[5] 13:29:46 ??test 13:29:46 summon butterflies[4/5]: 12Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 9Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 4Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 8Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 11Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ7 Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 6Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ6 10Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 13:29:59 ??summon_butterflies[4] 13:29:59 summon butterflies[4/5]: 12Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 9Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 4Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 8Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 11Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ7 Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 6Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ6 10Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 13:30:31 the syntax is learn swap, not swap 13:30:43 derp 13:30:49 !learn swap summon_butterflies[4] summon_butterflies[5] 13:30:49 Swapped summon_butterflies[4] with summon_butterflies[5]. 13:30:52 ??test 13:30:53 summon butterflies[4/5]: Especially hilarious when ghosts get to use it; see !lm SGrunt 260 -tv:<9.5:>1.0 or !lm SGrunt defe ghost 11 -tv 13:31:01 !learn edit test[1] s/4/5/ 13:31:01 test[1/37]: see {summon butterflies[5]} 13:31:11 Now, we wait for Wensley to return and-dammit 13:31:18 haha 13:31:34 elliptic wins 13:32:17 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:48:07 -!- animegrampa has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:48:22 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:04:18 so, can anything be done about that "early" boulder bee vault? 14:04:54 maybe a plate on the ground giving a warning one step before the beetle shows up behind you? 14:04:57 *boulder beetle 14:09:12 i think those are tutorial only 14:09:43 could give some noise message or something maybe? 14:09:53 -!- flashd has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:10:17 yeah 14:15:49 You hear an extremely worrisome rumbling. 14:20:58 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:22:30 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:03 back 14:25:11 hi dpeg :) 14:26:58 re plain mummies: curse should be an attack effect (spell slot), not a death effect 14:27:44 galehar: imo, the ?RC change can go right in. 14:29:08 -!- morphy_richards has quit [Client Quit] 14:32:27 well yeah 14:32:36 I'm still fighting with the android port :) 14:32:57 :) 14:32:59 but I'll give up soon and go back to the master branch 14:33:05 awww 14:33:25 I mean, not completely give up 14:33:37 it's temporary until frogbotherer come back to help me 14:33:59 I really want it! 14:34:34 i dont care about android, i just want people to think about improving tiles interface :) 14:34:51 just dont do it like windows 8 :P 14:35:53 well, the android port is certainly motivating me a lot to go back hacking the tiles interface 14:36:12 the port is already coming with a few improvement to local tiles 14:37:16 maybe import the super nice menus from webtiles? although those are probably not that good for a phone, they really benefit from more space 14:37:22 re: other mummies: since death curses can be scummed, they need thought anyway (can be done, but perhaps not now) 14:37:33 I also suggest that the cursing only affects equipped items. 14:38:02 Ah, here's a question: is there any way to reconcile tiles and webtiles? 14:38:10 dpeg: doesnt work so well, then you just unequip things you dont need before killing mummies :/ 14:38:45 dpeg: i think webtiles would have to be pretty much redone from scratch for that, but im not sure 14:38:52 would have to ask edlothiol 14:39:43 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:00 alefury: good point. It's still okay, though, for the tougher mummies. 14:40:06 it would kill a whole lot of birds with one stone of course, but might just not be possible 14:41:23 The problem with single, plain mummies is that they're not relevant enough to not scum them. That's different with the good mummies. 14:41:56 yeah, also 2 of 3 good mummies have abjuration 14:42:42 priests and greaters i don't think are really a problem, yeah 14:42:53 and even guardians at least usually come with other dangerous stuff nearby 14:43:13 MarvinPA: so having those curse (as a spell) would be interesting, imo. 14:44:10 webtiles interface uses a completely different code. 14:44:30 alefury: what's so nice about webtiles menu? 14:44:33 dpeg: if curses were actually interesting, that might be nice, yes 14:44:42 -!- Lawman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:44:48 galehar: you can see your stats, monster list, etc while using them, its great 14:44:50 alefury: that's the standing assumption. :) 14:45:05 dpeg: i doubt its going to happen :( 14:45:16 oh, because they are not full-screen but centered 14:45:25 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:32 only works well on a big screen though, especially wide 14:45:34 As I tried to explain on the forum, I see little prospect for interesting curses if they're restricted to items generated curses and randarts with {curse}. 14:45:38 alefury: it also comes with the downside of showing less. Especially relevant for inventory 14:45:55 skill section of character dump has +/- next to untrainable skills (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6182) by reid 14:45:55 and left-aligning them is also not great, because you have to adjust your vision 14:46:20 galehar: they could probably be improved even more 14:46:53 But monsters cursing your items (with actual effects) would mean something. It'd be weaker than nexoqec etc. mutation, and probably more interesting. 14:46:56 seeing some relevant information while using menus is great, though, and on a big screen you dont really need fullscreen for the menus 14:47:25 re: other mummies: since death curses can be scummed, they need thought anyway (can be done, but perhaps not now) 14:47:33 dpeg: webtiles already shares as much code as possible with local tiles, but some things can't be shared 14:47:34 what does this mean? I'm not aware of any way of scumming them 14:47:37 elliptic: yes, I said that above. 14:47:55 alefury: the first version of the new skill menu was centered. Reception was... not very good 14:48:08 edlothiol: okay, thanks for reply! Do webtiles accept the recently added size option? 14:48:14 dpeg: and I didn't understand it when reading through the backlog :) 14:48:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:46 elliptic: oh, blammo. I've read that in the forum thread: getting the last kill in via summon, I believe. 14:48:51 dpeg: webtiles already had one before I added the one for local 14:49:05 I wouldn't call that scumming 14:49:07 edlothiol: <3 poor_yurik would be proud of you 14:49:12 galehar: what do you mean? the skill menu needs space, and wouldnt really benefit much from seeing more information 14:49:28 elliptic: alright, it's less an issue than potion dropping etc., I agree. 14:49:32 it's true that using summons against mummies avoids some of the curses, but it has its own problems 14:49:33 id like to look at the I or M screen at the same time maybe, but that wouldnt work at all 14:49:40 can't get a summon to finish off every mummy if there's a lot of them 14:49:43 and it doesn't help at all against the most dangerous curse (summon reaper) 14:49:44 elliptic: and they have abjuration 14:49:46 alefury: you said that having menus aligned on the left was bad. 14:49:47 yes 14:49:48 they do cost *something* 14:50:04 (mummy tech: box of beasts?) 14:50:16 galehar: webtiles-style menus i mean 14:50:22 alefury: actually, frogbotherer add a new thing to do popup windows. This could maybe be used for the other menus 14:50:28 Okay, so we agree that strong mummy death curses are flavourful and work well enough? 14:50:30 afaik edlothiol tried it after i suggested it 14:50:59 dpeg: i think nobody ever disputed that 14:51:19 well, not since ive been reading ##crawl-dev anyway 14:52:26 yeah, I didn't like left-aligned menus 14:53:40 dpeg: they work well aside from one special case: guardian mummy in ossuary 14:53:53 do you mean left-aligning text inside the menu or the menu inside the window? 14:53:59 the solution there is to not have guardian mummy ossuaries, though 14:54:01 -!- freefall has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:54:45 since they are completely ridiculous at that depth... even if you kill one (not that hard on some chars), the curse is too much on that level and beginning players have no way of expecting it 14:55:47 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:04 galehar: menus inside the window 14:56:14 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:35 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:56:58 i think simply restricting the menus to the play and message area instead of making them fullscreen (on large screens and hugeterms) would work 14:57:16 classic menus i mean, not webtiles style 14:57:58 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: link_108] 14:59:08 alefury: well, I think it depends on the screen size. When small, better use all space available. 14:59:22 yes, of course 14:59:35 elliptic: i'd agree with removing them from that ossuary 15:00:05 alefury: on big screen however, having them as "popup" could work. Centered on the full screen or just the dungeon + message area I don't know. Can be an option. 15:02:15 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:07:57 speaking of options 15:08:27 was going to merge https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5997 but does it even need to be an option really? 15:08:59 seems like it could just be set to 20 or whatever and be fine 15:09:59 MarvinPA: I agree 15:10:10 just make it 30 so nobody can complain 15:10:13 -!- CannibalFerox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:10:19 MarvinPA: no option needed 15:10:20 better to make it mandatory and then turn it into an option if people complaint 15:10:21 or have trapwalk handle it 15:10:44 then it would just be another item on the list instead of a proper option 15:10:51 rather than making it an option that everybody will ignore and will just clutter up options 15:11:00 yeah 15:13:21 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:51 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:18:20 -!- xnavy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:16 03MarvinPA * ra18b63e3bf48 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Don't prompt for walking into steam unless on low HP (DracoOmega) 15:23:20 -!- Amplicon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:25:39 is &f adder in wizmode really meant to leave you severely poisoned afterwards 15:26:19 its an adder, what did you expect? :P 15:26:41 its just a wizmode command, doesnt have to be perfect 15:26:42 it's flight simulator, not flight kill-me-later :P 15:26:44 and the answer is no of course 15:26:52 (^^ excellent pun) 15:27:12 this pun makes me want to quit crawl 15:27:15 that's how good it is 15:27:18 well, maybe the poison is influencing the results. That would be bad 15:27:24 Is the webtiles interface different from normal tiles? 15:27:30 it is 15:28:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:28:38 it sure is 15:28:47 it even has a real monster list! 15:29:07 but no mouse support, so still worse overall imo 15:29:56 * dtsund only plays local tiles and webconsole 15:30:11 03MarvinPA * r837b8c97e85f 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Do prompt if walking into steam would remove icemail 15:30:21 MarvinPA: what about ozos? 15:30:30 argh 15:30:41 :P 15:30:53 this is why we can't have nice things 15:31:12 steam doesn't remove ozo's, does it? 15:31:17 revert, revert, commit that makes steam do 30 damage 15:31:22 at least it shouldn't unless it does damage 15:31:24 elliptic: but everything removes ozo's? 15:31:28 no? 15:31:41 damage decreases duration 15:31:41 fire damage that is 15:31:47 oh, right, that was changed 15:31:53 thats cool 15:31:57 isn't steam fire damage? 15:32:02 alefury: I change that :) 15:32:05 possibly, but it doesn't actually do damage :P 15:32:07 galehar: No 15:32:17 oh it just reduces the durations for them, yeah 15:32:27 clearly removing steam damage is the simplest thing :P 15:32:38 dtsund: you use a web ssh client to play online? 15:32:39 for icemail it actually ends it unless something changed 15:32:51 but rF+ protects against steam damage, doesn't it? 15:32:55 elliott: Don't be ridiculous. 15:33:07 yo said webconsole :P 15:33:12 galehar: I think so, but you can resist steam and not fire. 15:33:15 *you 15:33:18 right, icemail you lose all the ac from any damage 15:33:57 well, maybe icemail could be changed to behave like ozo and condensation shield. 15:34:04 -!- Lawman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:37:06 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.6 sic populo comunicated] 15:37:33 i never had icemail :( 15:37:46 -!- _159 has quit [Client Quit] 15:38:26 ??icemail 15:38:26 icy envelope[1/1]: One of the possible 3rd level mutations for the Demonspawn ice facet. You get +10 AC, but it goes away when you are hit by fire or cast fire magic, and then gradually regenerates. Also makes you immune to freezing vapour, even when dissipated. 15:38:40 wow that seems awesome 15:39:26 well maybe the ac could go gradually, proportionnally to the fire damage 15:39:47 -!- PollyEsther has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:41:51 more meaningful with the current way, though 15:42:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:43:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:45:34 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:40 what was the reason for the ozo change? that wasnt it something about recasting it for the most trivial shit would be annoying? 15:45:47 s/that// 15:46:02 you never have to recast icemail, so i think its probably fine 15:47:26 I wasn't happy with how a high level IE with ozo and shield would have all his defense instantly vaporized if an imp dared to throw flame at him 15:47:48 I thought it should be a bit more durable 15:48:03 strong fire attacks will usually vaporize them 15:48:25 -!- Kalir_ has quit [Client Quit] 15:48:39 -!- ah is now known as Guest12100 15:50:25 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 15:50:45 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:52:10 -!- Guest12100 has quit [Client Quit] 15:52:57 imps dont throw flame :P but i know what you mean 15:53:36 give them a wand of flame and they happily will :p 15:53:56 s/imp/orc wizard/ 15:55:42 fr: give imps throw flame 15:56:17 -!- urthmover has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:56:23 that would suck so much 15:56:34 learn add bad_ideas elliott 15:56:47 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:55 can't exactly state imps are not designed to annoy 15:57:04 alefury: that's crimson imp design philosophy 15:57:15 or, what ChrisOelmueller said 15:57:33 imps are interesting enemies... if you want to see something designed to annoy, cf. Brogue monkeys 15:57:43 -!- MorganL has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 15:58:04 monkeys are the worst, yes 15:58:07 <|amethyst> making them throw flame would make call imp rather overpowered 15:58:21 <|amethyst> though as it is you can just spam until you have a good complement of white imps 15:58:29 |amethyst: wouldn't they kill each other with the flames 15:58:33 clearly balanced 15:58:38 they resist fire 15:58:49 or well, most dont, but its not a problem with white imps either 15:58:52 Monkeys aren't *that* bad, because your darts usually last long enough to deal with them. 15:59:01 well, as for call imp currently the regular imps are by far the worst because of all the blinking that's going on. might be the balance factor of that spell however 15:59:03 dtsund: unless they get stolen. so you should drop them 15:59:33 oh speaking of call imp 15:59:41 ChrisOelmueller: i like that they introduce the player to blink early on. also a nice hint for how to use blink for wizards. 15:59:49 it really needs to like, not summon shadow imps or something 16:00:01 MarvinPA: But the free Animate Dead! 16:00:07 <|amethyst> or not let summons cast animate dead 16:00:08 yes exactly 16:00:14 shadow imps from call imp is beautiful 16:00:16 not letting them cast it would work also 16:00:20 what will the impscummers do 16:00:35 fall back to slowimp?? 16:00:43 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:45 Wouldn't be too hard to block summons from casting Animate Dead 16:01:04 A couple of lines in spell_is_bad_idea or whatever that function is called 16:01:07 <|amethyst> what about summons casting summons? 16:01:32 |amethyst: its funny when boggarts summon more boggarts :) 16:02:15 fr: summon boggart spell 16:02:18 <|amethyst> I was thinking of ynoxinuls mostly 16:02:22 it's like shadow creatures but cooler 16:02:37 in fact just replace shadow creatures with it 16:02:40 Boggart Storm 16:02:44 -!- Pthing has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:57 light creatures 16:03:12 nooodl: ncrawl fr ^ 16:04:46 <|amethyst> for those who missed it earlier (I know elliott saw it): use to break crawl (no, I am not going to 16:04:49 <|amethyst> commit this, don't worry) 16:04:50 <|amethyst> err 16:04:56 <|amethyst> sorry, mispasted 16:05:11 good paste 16:05:14 <|amethyst> 00:23:04 <+evilmike> here you go: http://pastebin.com/Z5H1BP8A 16:05:16 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:22 \iraqiinformationminister{I am not going to}{commit this chane} 16:05:25 change 16:07:42 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:09:46 hmm, so should summons just not cast animate dead? i don't know if it's a problem for non-shadow imps but maybe that's the simplest solution 16:11:16 -!- Turgor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:27 wouldn't it be best to have a general policy on whether summons should summon, rather than special-casing animate dead? 16:11:31 <|amethyst> having summons give you permanent (well, level-permanent) benefits seems questionable 16:11:53 the difference between this and summons summoning would be the permanent-ness, yeah 16:11:58 <|amethyst> summons summoning is more justifiable I think, but might have to be revisited if we do some kind of cap 16:12:08 what about those cases where you don't want your summons to animate dead but they do 16:12:20 <|amethyst> Zannick: just go around hungry all the time :) 16:12:37 theres also twisted resurrection btw, and possibly simulacrum 16:12:42 MarvinPA: fair enough, whether summons should perma-summon then 16:12:43 can only get those from shadow creatures, though 16:12:54 like that one time on d:16 when i killed a golden dragon and couldn't slice it up before my yred allies animated it 16:12:59 I think summons summoning is questionable in general 16:13:10 simulacra are temporary but i guess it should apply to twisted res too, yeah 16:13:12 it is summoning that is incredibly cheap on MP and only costs at the start 16:13:40 <|amethyst> it's mostly a problem with shadow creatures 16:13:42 (also the cap, yeah -- I bet a summoned summoner beating you to the cap would be annoying) 16:13:53 MarvinPA: I think preventing summon from using animate dead is a good start 16:13:57 <|amethyst> everything else can be balanced or removed from the spell 16:14:08 stuff like simulacra and twisted res can follow too 16:16:03 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:27:23 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:28:10 03MarvinPA * r2959f2344f03 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Don't let summons cast Animate Dead or Twisted Res 16:28:29 -!- Orionstein has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:56 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:33:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:36 MarvinPA: now simulacra-casting summons are in high demand 16:39:08 -!- FriendlyBee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:39:31 -!- Lawman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:42:30 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120421074340]] 16:46:53 indeed 16:46:55 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:50:33 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:38 -!- Ystah has quit [Quit: CyberScript - com o mIRC mais atual e em português (www.cyberscript.org)] 16:52:19 Pennsylvania is great! 16:52:36 <|amethyst> oh yeah, that goes to both channels... 16:52:50 lol 16:52:59 what triggers that? 16:53:04 |amethyst 16:53:09 <|amethyst> echo 'Pennsylvania is great!' >> ~crawl-dev/logs/announcements.log 16:53:19 haha 16:53:29 <|amethyst> Chei has a separate command for that 16:54:04 ~crawl-dev/logs/sockpuppet.log 16:54:04 testing 16:54:04 <|amethyst> %puppet testing 16:54:13 <|amethyst> %puppete is being tested 16:54:38 %puppete responds in real-time 16:54:48 and not to silly people like Zannick 16:54:54 ;) 16:55:05 <|amethyst> you've got to say it just right :) 16:55:48 /nick |amethyst; say %puppete is being tested 16:56:32 <|amethyst> that, yes :) 16:56:37 <|amethyst> s/that/like &/ 16:57:07 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 16:57:30 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:57:36 <|amethyst> elliott: they're used in a few places where you want to mark creatures as being in some way the "same", while giving them different corpses 16:57:39 <|amethyst> doh 16:59:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:47 i used to have an irc bot that would, when someone spoke to it, message me with what they said. and i would reply with how it should respond, and then it would respond 16:59:56 it worked pretty well 17:00:08 -!- paymentplan has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:00:22 they call that an IRC client, Zannick 17:00:30 (and it would save the response and reply automatically later) 17:00:59 elliott: yes, but within irc 17:01:04 I N C E P T I O N 17:01:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 17:01:41 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:05 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:06 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 17:06:39 -!- ctair has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:10:35 -!- Turg0r is now known as Turgor 17:12:09 -!- Svankensen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:22:15 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:25:34 -!- DainHome has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 17:27:30 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:04 -!- squimmy has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:41:30 -!- Silurio_ is now known as Silurio 17:41:56 -!- Dingo has quit [Quit: World in peril] 17:42:06 -!- ophanim_school has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:42:07 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:03 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:27 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:53:28 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:59:02 -!- Jaxy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:35 -!- Camicio has quit [] 18:01:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:34 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:15:42 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:16:40 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:20:28 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:25:21 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:51 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:34:39 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:42:05 -!- Syrio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:42:07 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:09 -!- ctair has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 18:46:51 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:09 -!- xnavy is now known as Guest34870 18:51:09 -!- Guest34870 has quit [Killed (niven.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 18:51:09 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 18:51:12 -!- xnavy1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:56:57 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:34 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 19:01:50 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: link_108] 19:06:15 -!- atrodo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:09:26 -!- lorenz371 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:50 -!- BlackSheep has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:01 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:40 I actually read the changelog for once, and I can see why you made it so that your summons couldn't cast Twisted Resurrection or Animate Dead... 19:19:42 -!- freefall has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:19:57 But why not just stop summons from summoning all together? 19:20:05 -!- Gilihad has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:55 Because that's a somewhat more involved decision, I think, and can be considered seperately 19:21:02 Especially given that it may tie into any potential summon cap 19:21:51 Does the change affect creatures summoned by god abilities? 19:22:15 I think it's all summons, period 19:22:26 Which mostly means shadow imps and hellwings 19:22:47 And stuff from Shadow Creatures 19:22:57 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:08 Yeah 19:23:20 -!- Tolias has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:48 Hmmm... this applies to things summoned by monsters, too, right? I suppose that takes away the most annoying/consequential thing hostile hellwings could generally do 19:30:57 -!- d73070d0 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:58 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:34 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:05 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:36 -!- fooobaar has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:58 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:35 -!- wasd223 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 19:46:00 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:46:41 -!- Oddtwang has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:49:07 -!- fiyawerx has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:49:35 -!- rast has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:28 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:53:02 -!- CampinSam has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:24 -!- Silurio_ is now known as silurio 19:57:30 -!- silurio is now known as Silurio 20:00:24 -!- BlackSheep has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:47 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:34 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:24 -!- Turgor has quit [] 20:08:37 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:35 -!- DainHome has quit [Changing host] 20:14:18 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 20:15:18 -!- ajikeshi__ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:18:35 -!- clouded_ has quit [] 20:19:10 Ned (L8 OpTm) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4592: map bailey_axe_4 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 20:21:33 Ned (L8 OpTm) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4592: map bailey_axe_4 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 20:21:46 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:25:30 It's empty in here 20:25:30 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:27:01 we removed everyone 20:27:08 ;) 20:29:38 -!- Silurio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:29:45 -!- vwzzz has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 20:31:11 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:29 -!- lexackson has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:55 -!- sbluen has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:08 -!- fooobaar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:33:18 -!- vwzzz has quit [Client Quit] 20:37:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:21 -!- MPR has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:44:32 -!- MPR has quit [Changing host] 20:45:01 -!- rossi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:27 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-395-g2959f23 (34) 20:51:50 -!- RollieTG has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 20:52:54 -!- VideoGames has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:55:08 -!- bracc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:24 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23:04 !learn add 12_sword OneEyed the Grappler (L9 TrMo), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by a minotaur (a +11,+12 great sword of Charity {drain, rF+ Dex+4}) in a Labyrinth, with 3287 points after 5137 turns and 0:13:49. 21:23:05 12 sword[1/1]: OneEyed the Grappler (L9 TrMo), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by a minotaur (a +11,+12 great sword of Charity {drain, rF+ Dex+4}) in a Labyrinth, with 3287 points after 5137 turns and 0:13:49. 21:23:28 -!- anele has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:24:31 hahah epic way to die 21:24:43 ewww, a +12 of a non-sucky weapon 21:25:47 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:21 What we need is a dungeon generator grammar! 21:28:31 <|amethyst> L-systems! 21:28:39 <|amethyst> we need a mandelbrot abyss level 21:29:11 |amethyst: doable. At the resolutions we're talking it wouldn't be the slightest bit interesting. 21:29:48 one of my million vault wips is something loosely based on http://www.fractovia.org/art/galleries/ascii1/chequin.html 21:30:05 whoa 21:30:37 !learn del 12_sword 21:30:37 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 21:30:38 Deleted 12 sword[1/1]: OneEyed the Grappler (L9 TrMo), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by a minotaur (a +11,+12 great sword of Charity {drain, rF+ Dex+4}) in a Labyrinth, with 3287 points after 5137 turns and 0:13:49. 21:30:43 dtsund: wrong channel i think :P 21:32:27 isn't the learndb cross-channel? 21:33:10 Zannick: I think he means I should just put it in the Pandoora learndb. 21:33:12 yes but pandoora is the light bot 21:33:26 ah 21:38:24 -!- daftfad has joined ##crawl-dev 21:38:40 Items displayed in walls/emptiness when switching maps (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6183) by rriegs 21:39:01 |amethyst: can I persuade *you* to write a dungeon generator? 21:40:17 <|amethyst> I've not done one before, but maybe 21:40:48 if you're interested, look at dgn-proclayouts.h in inception 21:40:50 perhaps you could ask infiniplex? 21:40:54 The interface is dead simple 21:41:00 HangedMan: who'dat? 21:41:17 he made six serial vaults and the new_vaults_layout 21:42:01 besides the layout branch he's the only guy I can think of (besides you) who has done crazy level stuff 21:42:17 Now that I've added a new terrain feature, do I need to modify the vaults code to allow its use from Lua, or (wishful thinking) can I just refer to the enum? 21:42:40 bh: if you want new procedural layouts, how about you write up an implementable for it and post it on mantis? Describe what's required, what it's for, etc 21:42:49 I don't think you can post implementables, but I can change the category for you 21:42:53 -!- Turgor has quit [] 21:42:53 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 21:43:17 evilmike: sounds good to me! 21:43:34 what's the new terrain feature? 21:43:40 DNGN_ABYSSAL_STAIR 21:43:56 oh right 21:44:11 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:28 whups 21:44:59 HangedMan: I think we should have stair vaults. 21:45:23 I will volunteer some when I am not dying 21:45:31 what if you use abyss exit vaults for this? 21:45:42 so these vaults could either have an exit or a portal down 21:45:48 03ryan * r23618225ffb1 10/crawl-ref/source/tileview.cc: Clear old maps' items from empty cells when chaging maps. 21:45:48 03ryan 07stone_soup-0.11 * r2f5017113d87 10/crawl-ref/source/tileview.cc: Clear old maps' items from empty cells when chaging maps. 21:46:00 <|amethyst> bh: I think since it's in dngn_feature_names it should just work 21:46:05 evilmike: might work 21:46:06 imo this is a better choice, becasue you dont let players know what is inside the vault, just from looking at the outside 21:46:33 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:48:19 guess I'll make some more exit vaults :) 21:50:55 ??eldritch tentacle 21:50:56 eldritch tentacle[1/4]: Be very afraid! Extends out from its eldritch rift, melees with chaos attacks that can do almost anything (including paralyze). Immune to enchantments/elements except holy. If you're human speed it is faster than you. 21:51:02 ??eldritch tentacle 21:51:02 eldritch tentacle[1/4]: Be very afraid! Extends out from its eldritch rift, melees with chaos attacks that can do almost anything (including paralyze). Immune to enchantments/elements except holy. If you're human speed it is faster than you. 21:51:11 ??eldritch tentacle[2] 21:51:11 eldritch tentacle[2/4]: !lg n78291 id=855265 -tv 21:51:48 if you place them as monsters you're just giving the player a bag of xp, usually 21:52:17 hangedman managed to find a way to use them by pairing them with a silver statue 21:52:31 heh, demonspawn 21:52:45 evilmike: I killed a crowd of archer statues with summon butterflies :) 21:52:55 secret tech 21:53:41 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:56:23 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 21:56:26 one of the things I wish was imported from that big thing grunt did was bend space because it sounded like a nice monster gimmick 21:57:44 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:16 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:24 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 22:04:35 evilmike: siren + tentacle? 22:04:44 unknown monster: "succubus" 22:04:44 %??succubus 22:04:58 whatever. its a monster in the arena sprint map, and does that 22:06:18 i could see a toned down version being made an actual monster (the one in that map has 300 hp). i'd make it actually a demon though, and move it off the 'm' glyph 22:07:40 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:47 Quick question 22:12:15 When you made it so that summons can't cast Animate Dead or Twisted Resurrection anymore, how did you do that? 22:12:24 And why not just make it so summons can't themselves summon? 22:16:12 <|amethyst> Lightli: see: 22:16:16 <|amethyst> %git 2959f23 22:16:17 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-395-g2959f23: Don't let summons cast Animate Dead or Twisted Res (6 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/2959f2344f03 22:16:44 oh 22:17:13 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:17:19 <|amethyst> with summons summoning it's not quite as big a deal, because they're temporary 22:17:41 <|amethyst> the biggest problem with animate dead and twisted res is that you can get permanent benefits from a temporary summon 22:18:08 <|amethyst> when/if there's a summon cap, summons summoning will have to be revisited 22:18:22 -!- barbs has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:21:12 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 22:24:36 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:05 -!- stenno has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:34:47 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:22 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:12 -!- Rewans has quit [] 22:37:12 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 22:37:45 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: bye] 22:39:26 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 22:44:27 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:45:08 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:46:27 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:47:45 -!- stenno has quit [Changing host] 22:50:33 What will happen if a summoning cap isn't implemented? How will you nerf it then? 22:51:48 -!- Codrus has quit [Quit: o/] 22:54:25 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:55:49 Is the LOS restriction having any sort of effect? 22:56:55 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:59:19 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:08 by removing it 23:11:15 -!- lexackson has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:22 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:06 Are there any statistics available on how long it takes players to escape labyrinths? 23:31:17 maybe if there are labyrinth exit milestones. i'm not sure if there are 23:31:39 there's br.exit now, but there don't seem to be any of those for labs 23:38:10 -!- bracc has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:38:39 no milestone 23:38:41 I'm interested in finding out because I'm vaguely contemplating making them radioactive (gradually contaminate you for being in them), but that's the sort of thing that'd need very careful calibration 23:39:01 maybe br.exit milestones should be taken for portal vaults? 23:39:03 it varies a ton 23:39:24 evilmike: I intentionally did not make br.exit milestones for those 23:39:30 alright 23:39:37 Oh, I know, but I'd be comfortable with a rate that allowed 90-95% escape without any mutations 23:39:43 because there would be a ton of them and there's no real point 23:40:14 Or a faster rate with more escape hatches that don't have loot attached to them 23:40:14 it would be great to track branch enter/exit info for gathering statistics, but that should be done in-game, not via milestones 23:41:02 as in, track whatever information you want in-game, then display it in dumps 23:41:08 <|amethyst> dump_order += turns_by_place tracks that 23:41:26 |amethyst: I guess that's right for one-time-per-game portal vaults, yeah 23:41:44 Is there a good way to harvest that data? 23:41:56 most people don't have that option on 23:42:04 Fie. 23:42:35 but you could download all the morgue files and write scripts to grab the data from those that have it 23:46:13 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:16 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 23:49:22 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 23:52:10 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:49 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:32 -!- daftfad has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:59:39 -!- Silurio has quit [Quit: Page closed]