00:02:08 -!- purge has quit [Quit: .] 00:03:14 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11-b1-93-ge7d6b6f 00:08:24 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-357-g3006273 (34) 00:08:27 -!- Cheibrodos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:12:05 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:20:41 I need a function that maps from xyz to a uniformly distributed pseudo-random value 00:26:17 -!- lexackson has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:42 <|amethyst> bh: xyz? 00:34:56 |amethyst: coordinates. I found something sufficiently hacky. 00:35:52 fed x,y through linear congruential generators, bit shifted the results, took the result from perlin(x,y,z) to get a bump value (which was rounded) then made some XOR soup 00:49:04 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:36 -!- bh has quit [Quit: bh] 00:58:14 -!- nbsp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:06:46 -!- kwel01 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:19:01 Ant colony encompass vault (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6163) by infiniplex 01:23:18 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:33 -!- exu has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:28:25 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:28:27 -!- elliott has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:26 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:30:19 evilmike (L10 DrIE) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_axe_2 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 01:31:35 evilmike (L10 DrIE) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_axe_2 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 01:31:37 evilmike (L10 DrIE) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_axe_minmay_hex_keep tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 01:31:49 evilmike (L10 DrIE) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_axe_2 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 01:31:53 ok fine 01:33:16 i think some baileys have secret doors 01:33:54 my theory was if I tried to enter it enough times, I'd get a clean bailey 01:33:56 I guess not :P 01:34:44 Snack (L8 TeGl) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_polearm_2 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 01:35:11 Looks like you kept rolling the same bailey, though. 01:35:20 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:20 well, it's an axe bailey 01:35:26 but I crashed on bailey_axe_minmay_hex_keep 01:35:31 so thats 2 different maps 01:36:24 so glasnost was merged to make everyone crash a lot to convince people to play 0.11 instead? :P 01:37:03 Glasnost was merged so all the crashes tell us where the unremoved secret doors are. 01:37:48 Diagnostic via catastrophic failure - a fine and noble tradition :P 01:38:49 evilmike: Can I ask a question about vault triggers? 01:40:29 alright. There are people who know more than I do though 01:41:23 Is there a good way to make a trigger spawn or destroy a monster? 01:41:29 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:42:11 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:42:56 creating a monster is a bit easier than destroying one. The easiest way to destroy the monster would be to dismiss it (it will vanish without a message, or if it's a summon, be unsummoned) 01:44:15 as for creating a monster: this is done with dgn.create_monster. Look for vaults that call that 01:44:19 I want to do both for my tutorial overhaul, but for different reasons (it happens that neither reason is relevant to Stone Soup). 01:45:15 dgn.create_monster sounds like what I want. 01:46:03 as for dismissing the monster, there are two ways... one would be to call dismiss_monsters() and wipe out everything on the level. You probably don't want that 01:46:30 the other would be to do something like 01:46:42 mons = dgn.mons_at(x, y) 01:46:46 mons.dismiss() 01:47:08 Is there a simple way to determine the coordinates? 01:49:29 I guess for my purposes I could have flag the square as lua:tutorial_desc {tokill_phase = 1} and iterate over that one square. 01:49:33 Or something. 01:50:19 Actually, for my purposes, reflecting the map over the Y-axis would negate the need for this tomfoolery. 01:50:23 I'm not really sure if there's a nice and simple way 01:50:28 So I should probably do that instead. :P 01:51:43 (In Light, placing the skeletons in tutorial lesson 5 causes the game to spam "You feel relatively safe now." upon first entering the second floor unless it places some other monster first.) 01:52:12 (I wanted to make that not happen but still allow the player to earn the message legitimately.) 01:56:19 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:56:23 I've never needed to dismiss a single monster like that (usually, if you want to temporarly spawn something, it makes more sense to just create it as a summon) 01:57:07 I mean, there's ways to do it, I just don't know what the easiest is 01:57:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:10:57 -!- pantaril has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:13 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15:45 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:37 03evilmike * ra6b1c907f550 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h mon-pick.cc): Enable moths of suppression, for testing. 02:26:03 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-358-ga6b1c90 (34) 02:26:47 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:25 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:27:27 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 02:30:23 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:27 -!- Taynav has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:20 ontoclasm: welcome! 02:34:20 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:38:26 -!- Twinge has quit [] 02:41:07 !messages 02:41:08 (1/1) Wensley said (6h 29m 35s ago): tolias wanted to thank you for all your singing sword quotes 02:41:15 * dpeg is moved. 02:44:03 !seen bh 02:44:04 I last saw bh at Tue Sep 4 05:52:36 2012 UTC (1h 51m 28s ago) quitting with message Quit: bh. 02:44:22 I am not sure we need 27 Abyss levels. Five are propobably enough for the purpose. 02:48:23 Hey, there's a movement on the forum campaigning for HE removal. 02:52:43 I think the POINT was for it to be an excessive number, so that if players felt like being excessive, they could. There's no reason to go deeper than a few of them unless you're a touch crazy and want a silly voluntary challenge 02:52:56 At least that's my understanding of it 02:53:17 DracoOmega: I see. Still not sure it's worth it but probably better discussed another time. 02:53:21 (Some people wanted infinite depth, for that purpose) 02:54:20 dpeg: Quick, drop them before it dries up! 02:55:58 I would not call that thread "campaigning". It's a couple of serious suggestions, a large number of useless/sarcastic posts (from both sides), and the rare constructive comment. It may be on the right track now, though 02:57:18 evilmike: I wasn't serious here, but I am typing a serious reply to the thread. 02:57:47 That seems like a way to sum up an unfortunately large number of threads 03:00:24 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:01:46 Speaking of Tavern, I think I might make the Crawl Light thread tomorrow. 03:01:55 Should it go in general, or game design, do you think? 03:02:43 phew, tough one -- your choice 03:02:52 there is no "general" forum, unless you mean "crazy yiuf's corner", which only exists so people have a place to shit post 03:03:08 poor crazy yiuf 03:03:10 So, a crawl light thread probably belongs in the game design forum 03:03:34 Just as well; I hardly ever read the other subfora. 03:04:20 yes 03:04:40 just had a look at the boards 03:04:58 (For some reason, I thought there was a "general" subforum.) 03:08:14 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:43 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 03:08:51 There isn't really a need for one, pretty much all the categories are covered. And Game Design Discussion is where people talk about the game itself, so it covers everything the other subforums miss 03:10:13 -!- Sgun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:11:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 03:15:27 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: nipaa~] 03:25:46 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:29:11 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:31:02 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:33:37 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36:33 evilmike: cang's speed of "c" doesn't mean anything without units. In fact, in the only popular system where it's an unitless quantity, it's value is 1 03:36:37 @??cang 03:36:37 cang (04Ω) | Spd: c | HD: i | HP: 666 | AC/EV: e/π | Dam: 999 | Res: sanity | XP: ∞ | Int: god | Sz: !!! 03:37:55 and a speed 1 monster with low AC/EV can be kited quite easily :p 03:39:24 Does that mean the player is made of tachyons? 03:41:21 -!- evilmike has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:41:31 the notion of "c" has quite a different meaning in, for example, cellular automata or Core Wars 03:42:39 ok, in cellular automata it's still the max speed anything can spread 03:46:09 -!- arraofdagon has quit [Client Quit] 03:56:04 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:57:33 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 03:59:13 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:01:22 -!- Silurio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:10:54 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 04:25:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:28:34 so, I've been stress-testing the 0.11 abyss. It crashed after 25k turns in _remember_vault_placement() 04:29:01 _you_vault_list was full. Turn it into an STL vector? 04:39:06 maybe not so easy as the vector is in a CrawlHashTable 04:50:14 -!- arraofdagon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:52:31 -!- DracoOmega has quit [] 04:57:10 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:02 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-358-ga6b1c90 05:00:48 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:16 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:57 oh my god, the c-r-d list is brimming with action 05:10:27 galehar: around? 05:10:36 yep 05:11:15 re submergers: *I* said something beyond "remove" :) 05:11:29 great digest, btw 05:11:50 I really need to change my handling of that mailinglist... 05:12:03 ghallberg: go from "ignore" to "read"? 05:12:12 dpeg: oh sorry, I forgot about it 05:12:19 no problem 05:12:26 galehar: shall I reply? 05:12:30 -!- Mumcon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:12:40 if you want 05:12:50 ok, will do 05:13:05 btw, what you're proposing for submerged monsters would make them identical to trapdoor spiders and mimics 05:13:31 dpeg: go from the "send me a bunch of messages at arbitrary times, to send me messages when they arrive. 05:13:34 " 05:13:38 or something... 05:13:49 And give it its own gmail-label 05:15:20 -!- arraofdagon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:17:46 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:59 galehar: what do you mean by "books of known subtype"? 05:19:47 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:23:32 -!- Sab0t has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:29:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:31:18 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:43 -!- brochacho has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:53:32 Quokka, (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6164) by white_noise 05:53:43 dpeg: you find the book of flames. Now, you find another one, but it's not id on sight. 05:54:52 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:50 galehar: I just replied on crd and gave one reason why the second book of flames isn't IDed on sight... it's so that finding that second book is more interesting 05:56:47 I've often had situations where a book was in LoS of a dangerous sleeping unique and I fought the unique only because I wanted the book, and then found that it was a duplicate... and I think this is good 05:57:09 I don't think it's a big deal but I also don't see any real advantage to changing this 05:59:46 yeah, good point 06:00:11 consistency with the other item types would be a reason to change it, but not a very strong one 06:05:19 i'd think that identifying the book once you pick it up would work 06:06:32 if that trog thing with unidentified/identified books still exists(?) -- why not, it still gives you a nice bomb to carry around, so lower piety instead of the trog-like BURN IT ON FIRST CONTACT might be just fine 06:07:15 ChrisOelmueller: oh, right, people have pointed out before that autoexplore identifying books for you would be a bad idea if it means less trog piety 06:07:31 because then people might not want to autoexplore, etc 06:08:17 I guess default autopickup doesn't pick up books with trog currently though, so maybe that is okay... or we could scrap getting a tiny amount more piety for burning unIDed books, it is spoily and not very interesting 06:08:19 that might be prevented by removing it from autopickup for trogites however 06:10:25 elliptic: if you don't mind, I'll post some of your answers on the tavern 06:11:20 sure 06:13:45 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:40 -!- ZRN has quit [] 06:19:47 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:21:16 -!- Silurio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:21:22 Temujin (L18 DEWz) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_axe_1 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 06:21:31 galehar: thanks for the crd tavern digest btw, means i dont have to handle tavern :) 06:21:40 I agree with elliptic on book id. 06:22:00 elliptic: it's not spoily 06:22:21 At least developers should try to use "spoily" with a minimum of care :) 06:22:32 alefury: note that it's really subjective. I left things I personnally don't find interesting but others might disagree 06:22:36 is it mentioned in-game somewhere then? I never saw it there :P 06:22:49 elliptic: it is right on Trog's ^ screen .) 06:23:10 what's this ^ key? I've never used it 06:23:12 :P 06:23:31 Temujin (L18 DEWz) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_axe_minmay_hex_keep tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 06:23:35 For French keyboards, it might be accessible without shift. 06:23:49 dpeg: it's not in ^, it is in ^! 06:23:59 and it is well known that nobody knows to press ! there 06:24:03 ??nemelex secret tech 06:24:03 nemelex[8/8]: < rwbarton> Soyweiser: press ^! and then look at the screen very carefully 06:24:36 dpeg: yes, but it's a bit buggy because you usually use it for � 06:25:18 actually, on a more serious note, piety for burning spellbooks has bothered me for a while because it feels totally insignificant 06:25:35 I haven't actually looked up how much it is, but it should probably be increased 06:26:13 elliptic: it's 1 for known books and 2 for unid 06:26:14 elliptic: phew, I thought you wanted to remove it :) 06:26:21 2 piety, I see 06:26:26 Temujin (L18 DEWz) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_axe_1 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 06:26:47 I think we need to start adding stuff to 0.12 before removing more :) 06:26:58 it should probably be more than that... you get about that much piety for sacrificing three corpses 06:27:03 elliptic: you brought up one (imo terrible) argument against book id on pickup once: it will make unided books stand out less, so if you forgot which letter the book was assigned it is harder to find it in the r screen if you have many books (matters mostly for randart books) 06:27:24 s/unided/new 06:27:41 alefury: yeah, I decided I didn't really believe that argument after all :) 06:27:51 are randart rings with -AC properties supposed to not inscribe these upon wearing? 06:27:55 Seriously: I have toyed with the idea of an advanced interface help, for players who can play but don't know about certain interface niceties. You only need a very small set of keys to get crawling (and then the vast amount of commands is mind-boggling, hence bad), but later on, so many commands make crawling nicer. 06:28:25 alefury: that's not the reason why books should unidentified, indeed 06:28:25 local testing says that when creating randarts out of protection rings, that inscription won't happen even though regular rings of protection do it 06:28:31 I think it is fine if picking up a book just gives a message like d - a book of Fire 06:28:59 elliptic: yes, that would work 06:29:11 dpeg: sounds like something i would read 06:29:16 or, if you already have seen one: "d - another book of fire". I would appreciate that. 06:29:29 would be useful, yes 06:30:00 also, i meant the advanced interface help when i said "sounds like something i would read", not the book of fire 06:30:08 how to handle randbooks in that system? particularly ones which only contain spells you saw elsewhere already 06:30:14 alefury: ah, was really puzzled already :) 06:30:22 ChrisOelmueller: cannot do it for them 06:30:23 ChrisOelmueller: not? 06:30:23 I don't really like the "another" bit 06:30:38 i think it would be nice to be told that you already found that book before 06:30:40 elliptic: it would make my life easier 06:30:41 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:44 if you don't remember you've seen the book before, then you might actually be interested in it now :) 06:30:49 i get confused by fire/flames, frost/ice, etc 06:30:51 d - book of fire (already seen) ? 06:31:05 elliptic: I often have long pauses between playing, for example 06:31:15 also you might have destroyed the book, or seen it in a shop, or ... lots of situations 06:31:45 I just envision it being more confusing than anything 06:32:14 okay okay: d - book of fire (already dropped) 06:32:24 -!- Rewans has quit [] 06:32:39 dpeg: no resistance for inedible contaminated chunks? Haven't you read elliptic's answer? 06:34:27 i don't see the problem with nausea in that either -- if people just want to pretend contaminated chunks cannot be eaten, they wouldn't have to face nausea at all 06:34:33 how about replacing nausea by another part of the food reform instead? can eat contaminated only at very hungry. 06:34:43 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:34:58 alefury: haven't you played it back then? 06:34:59 ChrisOelmueller: thats actually what i do most of the time 06:35:00 alefury: no, that was one of the most disliked parts of the food reform 06:35:05 nausea is much better 06:35:06 hm, i havent played it back then 06:35:16 but yeah, i can see how it might get annoying 06:35:30 for people who worry about food too much 06:35:31 alefury: so do i, but i don't think forcing this upon everybody just because some players don't manage their food well seems odd 06:36:02 i dont mind nausea either 06:36:03 this, largely, is the same group that ascends with thirty bread rations in lair presumably 06:36:09 or in their inventory 06:36:13 suppressing demonic guardian when following oka seems like a good idea until we eventually figure out a better one 06:36:32 ChrisOelmueller: did you see that tavern post where someone complained about losing like 20 rations to harpies? it was awesome. 06:36:40 galehar: it's certainly the simplest change, yeah 06:37:05 -!- ttghbbgeww has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:11 if replacing the facet would actually be hard, oka could just suppress it 06:37:19 players can play with oka for a while and just be down a facet, and then get the facet back if they ever abandon oka (a popular thing late game anyway) 06:37:21 you still get the mutation, it just doesnt do anything as long as you worship oka 06:37:32 alefury: yeah, that's the proposal 06:37:45 oh, okay :) 06:37:58 too much crd, i cant remember all of it :( 06:39:13 oh, that email was even open 06:39:13 who is robert burnham? 06:39:23 he has an awesome last name btw 06:39:56 he's cryp71c 06:40:10 about nausea, I think it actually forces you to make nontrivial choices sometimes... but I can also see why some people find it very annoying (orc mainly) 06:40:23 I had to look it up on the dev wiki, people should sign with their nick on c-r-d 06:40:34 alefury: the only posts i read are the ones other people throw in irc for ridicule, so i probably did :) 06:40:40 -!- hart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:52 elliptic: well, orc basically forces you to eat some permafood, which is the whole point 06:41:40 there also are temporary ways to deal with orc, such as finding gourmand somewhere 06:41:55 granted, not every char has access to it by orc, but it also isn't impossible 06:42:00 galehar: it's a little more complicated than that... if you aren't doing anything hunger-intensive or have regeneration then you can actually just eat orc chunks and become nauseous 06:42:37 yeah, might have to deal with sickness at some point, but probably not 06:42:45 -!- CIA-60 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:42:51 [call your nearest vault manufacturer for more sheep and yak vaults in orc] 06:43:12 then again, who cares? just eat real food, problem solved. 06:43:29 galehar: I wrote that part before lunch, so before elliptic's mail arrived. Sorry. 06:43:45 as long as there is as much permafood as there currently is, any food annoyance complaints can jsut be swatted aside with "eat permafood, there is enough" 06:44:05 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:41 Temujin (L18 DEWz) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_axe_2 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 06:44:59 Temujin (L18 DEWz) ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4589: map bailey_axe_2 tried to place a secret door (Bailey) 06:46:31 arg, I can't figure out how to fix the abyss crash 06:46:57 _dd: fwiw, i like your mummies now, the latest revision looks quite good :) 06:47:06 -!- CIA-100 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:10 <_dd> thanks 06:47:23 kilobyte: I'm not sure this abyss crash is really a 0.11 thing. Looks to me like it could happen in previous versions too 06:47:41 i do get the "porridge monster" complaint, though 06:47:46 we're only aware of it because now we have a script to stress test it 06:47:53 but it was mostly a problem in the older versions imo 06:48:16 i thought "hmm, that looks a lot like the classic small abom tile" when i first looked at the normal mummy 06:48:17 <_dd> on that note why can't we delete old uploads on mantis 06:48:22 would be nice to fix it, but I don't see it as bad enough to prevent a release (only happens after more than 20k turns in the abyss) 06:48:45 _dd: should i clean up the mummies issue a bit? 06:48:48 <_dd> sometimes i get like 2 pages worth of revisions on a single mantis page... 06:48:59 <_dd> sure 06:49:06 <_dd> just leave the last 2 pics 06:49:22 Entering Bailey crashes webtiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6165) by temujin 06:49:33 <_dd> mummys4 and mummys4x 06:50:30 <_dd> still it'd be nice if i could just delete old attachments myself, wouldn't have to bother someone every time the pages get too cluttered... 06:50:37 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:56 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50:58 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:51:01 <_dd> also it'd prevent potential misunderstandings, like someone commenting on an old version 06:53:09 _dd: I'm looking at mantis permissions. Deleting attachments require updater profile 06:53:13 default is reporter 06:53:21 and it's the only difference between the 2 06:53:37 I'm upgrading you to updater 06:53:59 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:54:20 dpeg: while I'm at it, do you want me to restrict writing to your random god pages to dev only? 06:54:50 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:55:01 _dd: done, you can delete attachment 06:55:38 if anyone ask for it, wether here or on mantis, don't hesitate to !tell me 06:56:26 <_dd> thanks 06:56:27 galehar: are you sure its the only difference? i got a lot of new buttons when i got updater status 06:56:48 like i can edit issue titles and text, reopen issues, etc 06:57:01 also close and resolve other peoples issues, etc 06:57:02 hmm 06:57:18 maybe theres some additional flag that did that, but that would be a bit weird 06:57:29 <_dd> i'm just going on a deleting spree, cleaning up all my unresolved pages... brb 06:57:36 anyway, I think it's fine if regular submitters get more mantis power. We need help maintaining this mess! 06:58:35 like what? "regular submitter" is something everyone gets when they register, shouldnt be too abusable 06:58:55 alefury: that's what I see in the permission report, so I guess it just mean that it's not exhaustive. I don't know much about mantis. 06:59:22 alefury: I mean people who regularly submit patches or tiles 06:59:32 oh, that, yes 06:59:44 giving trustworthy people updater status is fine 06:59:51 alefury: or people like you who actually are doing helpful stuff on mantis 06:59:55 im sure you can break lots of stuff, but why would anyone? 07:00:42 well, that's why I think it's fine that it's not default, but if anybody ask for it let me know, if he's a regular, he'll give him updater 07:01:53 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:17 -!- Tally has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:05:50 -!- Tally has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:53 -!- dg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:37 -!- CIA-67 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:32 dpeg: I see that nicolae has made some comments on the random gods, and he has a normal reporter profile 07:10:17 dpeg: if you want, I can upgrade nicolae to updater and restrict writing to your pages for reporters 07:12:19 dpeg: also, I see that random_god is both the name of a page and the name of a namespace containing piety_rules and powers. Seems like the latter are inaccessible without searching. 07:14:30 dpeg: I can try to fix it if you want 07:16:19 galehar: for the flag preventing monsters from picking up certain loot, I think it would be better than using runed doors to keep stuff out. It's good to have monsters on top of loot (thematic, prevents cTele to empty loot rooms) 07:16:46 clouded_: there's no ctele in Elf:$ anyway 07:17:04 I have been wishing for such a thing for a bit... it makes big loot filled vaults a lot more fun when you see it all laid out 07:17:08 i'd assume this flag wouldn't be used in elf:$ exclusively 07:17:17 galehar: right, but there a lots of other vaults 07:17:49 the thing is it would be a bit strange. How do you explain that the monsters don't pick the loot? 07:18:00 like the big box vaults I did for V suffer from this 07:18:04 at least with runed doors, it's understandable 07:18:06 they like looking at it all laid out also! 07:18:27 galehar: why? how is it understandable that monsters sit in a box and refuse to open the door? 07:18:57 they are presumable guarding the loot, they shouldn't be picking it up and taking it for themselves 07:19:39 Why are tey guarding ti instead of using it to make the guarding more effective. 07:19:56 ghallberg: so that it doesn't wear out with use and get dirty, etc 07:20:08 -!- barbs has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:20:13 nobody wants a dirty hat 07:20:22 elliptic: well, runed doors cannot be open by monsters. It's not yet explained in-game, but it's a rule which can be observed. 07:20:38 on the other hand, specially flagged loot is invisible 07:20:50 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:20 I don't think people will be like "hey wtf why is all this loot untouched" they will be like "wow check out all this fuckin loot" 07:21:21 galehar: I don't see how this is any worse than monsters specially flagged to be "patrolling"? 07:22:34 well, flagging the loot is reasonable, I was just thinking that runed doors could do the job just as well. Or are you worried that they become overused? 07:22:45 yes I am very worried that they are becoming overused 07:23:11 use them only for marking dangerous place then 07:24:22 I'd actually prefer it if doors that monsters won't open were invisibly marked also rather than using runed doors for that 07:24:33 but I guess I missed the chance to argue this earlier 07:27:57 (basically I see "these monsters won't open this door" as something that should viewed as a feature of the monsters' AI, rather than a feature of the door itself... so it should be possible to have runed doors that monsters will open as well as normal doors that monsters will not) 07:28:10 (and the player does not need to know this information) 07:29:17 so you think it should just stop autoexplore? what if a monster opened the runed door? 07:29:27 allowing monsters to open them complicates this quite a bit 07:29:50 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:56 i agree that still having restricted regular doors is fine 07:30:07 an open runed door should stop autoexplore just like a closed one would 07:30:07 elliptic: we still have non-runed doors which have lua to prevent being opened 07:30:28 elliptic: so autoexplore shouldnt go through them? then they would just behave like a travel exclusion, with all associated annoyance 07:30:42 <_dd> hey, if anyone happens to remember, had someone made new fungus tiles already? 07:31:08 <_dd> i have a sort of recollection like someone did but i'm not sure 07:31:08 _dd: try searching for fungus on mantis 07:31:09 alefury: oh, I meant stop autoexplore as in, autoexplore halts when you first see the door 07:31:14 <_dd> oh duh 07:31:17 <_dd> :p 07:31:22 i dont think so. do you mean wandering mushrooms and the like, or the ones that grow on corpses? 07:31:36 alefury: I guess you are right that there is a question of whether autoexplore should go through open runed doors in that case, yeah 07:32:06 alefury: anyway I guess I'm actually fine with runed doors being impossible for monsters to open, I just think they should be used very sparingly in that case 07:32:10 elliptic: curently, runed doors stop autoexplore and also behave like a travel exclusion 07:32:21 which is conveniently cleared when you open the doors 07:32:45 <_dd> the regular fungi 07:33:02 <_dd> the ones that are like plants and you can hit them but don't do anything 07:33:09 galehar: I thought kilobyte was converting all the lua-closed doors into runed doors, that's what I don't like 07:33:09 ohh, those 07:33:15 if that's not happening then it is okay 07:33:19 i think they look nice, but probably can be improved 07:33:26 <_dd> i just thought they could use a new tile 07:33:44 could have multiple, like newplants 07:33:49 <_dd> yeah 07:34:02 theyre not used as much, though, so that might not be necessary 07:34:08 most likely welcome anyway, though 07:34:15 <_dd> yeah 07:34:18 galehar: I guess if we let monsters open runed doors, the natural thing would be for moving through an open runed door to clear the exclusion as well 07:34:44 elliptic: you should probably reply to kilobyte's crd email saying you dont think runed doors should be used for some of the things he said they can be used for 07:34:59 <_dd> i think i'll just make a couple variations of a base tile, maybe a bit different sizes/orientations 07:35:32 elliptic: the current system is quite elegant imo. the runes disperse on opening the door, and you have to manually open it. its very clear. 07:35:53 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:44 %git 8be641e4 07:37:16 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-285-g8be641e: Replace lua:restrict_door() with runed doors, except for Sprint. (2 days ago, 13 files, 22+ 27-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/8be641e4a290 07:37:16 elliptic: you were right 07:37:16 he has replaced restrict_door with runed doors 07:37:16 alefury, galehar: due_elkab is a perfect example of a vault that I think shouldn't have 10587009 runed doors 07:37:41 previously people opened those doors with autoexplore, now they can't and they get message spam about them also 07:38:17 elliptic: I think the design of runed doors is fine, and kilobyte has said himself that he didn't put much thought when he updated the vaults 07:38:54 so yes, many of them need to be reverted to restrict_door or normal doors 07:39:14 galehar: okay... as I said before, I'm okay with what runed doors currently do, I just think they should be used very sparingly 07:39:35 then we all agree :) 07:39:48 8be641e4 probably just need to be reverted 07:39:55 what's wrong with easy_open=false if you're paranoid about vaults 07:39:59 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:40:20 lots. 07:40:28 and I find it somewhat strange that monsters would seal themselves up behind doors that they are physically unable to open if that's the working explanation, but that's okay 07:41:00 maybe somebody else sealed them inside 07:41:05 vault makers :) 07:41:25 absolutego: for one thing vaults shouldn't rely on nondefault player settings to "work" :) 07:41:32 Zot sealed them in. 07:41:52 then don't autoexplore? 07:42:20 i (mostly) autoexplore with easy_open=false and i'm pretty happy with it 07:42:33 absolutego: next youre going to tell me to use movement keys for fighting mosnters 07:42:53 i autofight a lot but i use arrow keys a lot too 07:43:18 i liked discussing runed doors better actually 07:43:19 i was joking 07:45:02 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:04 ??test 07:45:04 summon butterflies[4/5]: 12Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 9Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 4Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 8Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 11Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ7 Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 6Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ6 10Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 07:48:23 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:10 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:53:51 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:53:59 elliptic: oh, i had due_elkab in my current game. if all the cabinets are runed doors now, that would be really silly 07:54:04 -!- brochach1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:54:22 it also seems a bit silly that the doors are restricted at all 07:54:37 would be nicer if a bunch of undead jumped out if you make too much noise 07:55:01 yeah... I took a quick look through the commit that made them runed and most of it looks reasonable enough, but there are a couple vaults like this 07:55:31 Wall tiles became wrong upon save transition (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6166) by moxian 07:55:31 you are right that it is a bit weird for all the doors to be restricted, but otherwise they are basically guaranteed to all open up because of how crypt noise works 07:55:46 is crypt noise still a thing? 07:55:59 ffs, please, someone remove ambient noise 07:56:04 i thought that had already been done 07:56:26 why remove it? it works pretty well in crypt most of the time IMO 07:56:55 (it is completely unnoticeable in every other location) 07:57:09 tomb perhaps? :) 07:58:37 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:44 -!- vev has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:22 hm, it works well in tomb imo, but i think tomb would also work well without it 08:03:28 also its spoilery 08:04:04 wasnt it removed from shoals or something? 08:04:11 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:22 it was at least turned down in hive before it was removed, because it was dumb 08:06:04 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:56 printing a message when you enter a branch with nonstandard ambient noise would be good imo 08:09:00 was mentioned at least once before 08:13:56 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:14:52 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:07 -!- inde has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:15:49 Elyvilon ^! text too long (again) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6168) by Cab 08:15:49 Fungus tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6167) by dd 08:32:37 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:34:22 the elf thread on the tavern is terrible :( 08:37:07 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:38:08 i find it interesting to see so much support for HE removal after the MD thing 08:38:40 i don't like evilmike's idea of extreme +/- apts though 08:38:52 it's the wikipedia article deletion pattern: if i can't get my beards, you mustn't have yours either 08:39:42 the people who want to remove HE didnt really care about MD removal i think 08:40:07 most of the people who did care about MD removal arent that deeply involved in crawl i think 08:41:12 i think they overlap a bit with Mf and Hu, but are sufficiently distinct already 08:45:15 please do not remove more races, MD was a bad idea already 08:45:48 i think the only one who even wants to remove md is MarvinPA 08:45:57 and a few players 08:46:16 renaming some elves is on the table though i guess 08:46:16 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:18 where md==he? 08:46:32 yes, that 08:47:25 i wouldn't mind removing HE at all, maybe in favour of something else 08:47:41 that idea of the anti-tengu (regarding magic apts) isn't bad 08:48:39 the most developed idea is LO, and kilobyte's Dj idea at least sounds interesting. even if Dj turn out crap it would tell us a lot about whether some of the mechanics might work in a different context. 08:49:07 sadly i'm not well versed in folklore or mythology so i can't come up with a decent proposal here 08:49:25 also you have a dj race! 08:49:40 ? 08:49:50 c'mon... a D 08:49:53 *dj 08:49:54 ! 08:50:06 dee-jay! 08:50:16 i know, would love them for that reason alone 08:50:42 dj healer. dj conjurer. dj fighter. etc. :) 08:50:54 even with the fitting DjNe 08:50:56 it'd be "groovy" 08:57:34 galehar: no, it's okay (random god). If I get annoying comments (either direction), I'll approach you. 08:58:56 re: monsters & loot: I like how they sometimes are a lot more dangerous from the loot (e.g. minotaur). 09:01:02 -!- Gilihad_ has quit [Client Quit] 09:01:17 dpeg: what about the namespace issues? 09:01:40 shouldn't the dcss:brainstorm:god:concept:random_god page be moved to dcss:brainstorm:god:concept:random_god:random_god 09:01:48 absolutego: re HE removal: that's evolution. We've been weeding out players opposing species removal, and now only die-hard removers are left! 09:01:49 i think the flag would be good even if just used for elf, tomb, zigs maybe 09:02:14 the minotaur should definitely keep using lab loot though, yeah :P 09:02:44 -!- syraine has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 17.0a2/20120828042007]] 09:03:05 no loot pickup in zigs would be nice 09:03:17 its much more annoying than in elf, and generally irrelevant 09:03:21 galehar: don't think it matters space about the name spaces... currently, the page is mostly for nicolae and me to get random god content there. You access everything from the main random god page 09:03:57 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:44 dpeg: alright 09:05:04 thanks! 09:06:34 -!- ttghbbgeww has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:08:55 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:11 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:20 -!- Impy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:11:52 for a new door vault, watch cszo lightli 09:11:58 i am not impressed fwiw 09:12:00 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:01 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:05 damn, I missed it 09:14:40 Sequell is doing weird things currently so i can't tv it either 09:19:32 tell him to go back to demo it, it's lightli, he might go for it 09:20:22 it looks really weird in tiles, thats what i saw when i started watching 09:20:29 i missed the action, though 09:20:59 oh he cleared it already? i only saw a corner of it on the map 09:21:13 he just went bak 09:21:38 a door vault feels rather silly if the monsters can't open the doors though 09:21:48 yeah you just open one door and that's it 09:21:48 yes, the vault doesn't work like this 09:22:01 it should have perhaps runed corner doors and a few runed pillar doors 09:23:30 hm, then you would autoexplore into it, though 09:23:49 at least they would stop autoexplore when they come into sight 09:24:56 it would be so sad to lose that vault, but might be necessary. :( 09:25:13 * dpeg suspects another cool feature lost to the interface steamroller. 09:25:34 door vault now announces itself, so a manual exclusion happening after you see one of the runed doors isn't that unlikely 09:26:56 After some time, the doors could all open at once. The Dorokhloe wizlab does that. 09:27:13 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:16 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:49 !tell elliptic do you have the full banner document somewhere? 09:27:50 Wensley: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 09:28:18 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:25 "You slice the spectre like a ripe choko!!!" <-- is this new? 09:29:14 maybe, im not sure 09:29:31 Wensley: i assume you don't mean this but a 0.11 document? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KGFRPLHCE7oHHPLupAVWF_ei-ESPoKDjFWcezmkW2Ww 09:29:43