00:01:01 Pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-b1-92-gf308ed9 (33) 00:01:40 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:03:07 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11-b1-92-gf308ed9 00:04:09 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 00:04:25 i have a suggestion for hardmode mnoleg 00:04:37 malign gateway has a SERIOUS limitation in that it only allows 1 portal at a time 00:04:45 the solution: spam portals 00:05:08 he could like, passively cause portals to erupt everywhere, not even as a spell 00:05:21 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:28 evilmike: The reason I pulled him up was that the concern was raised that the summoner primordial liches are too similar to him. 00:05:43 though, light mnoleg might not even have that as a spell.... it was only added because i made a vault where he had enough room to cast it 00:06:57 Speed 12 | HD: 30 | AC/EV: 20/15 | Dam: 30 (drain), 25 (drain) | undead, etc. | Res: magic(immune), fire, elec, cold++, poison, rot, neg+++, torm | vul: holy+++ | XP: something | Sp: eyeballs, airstrike, horrible things, blink away, mass haste, greater demon 00:08:13 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-316-gc91d766 (34) 00:08:37 how much hp do they have 00:08:37 Also, does that look unmanageable to fight for a 3-rune game? (This is hardmode-exclusive.) 00:08:48 Lemme check 00:09:12 Average of around 165. 00:09:19 Nothing is unmanageable to fight, period, but that would be something most character would not want to deal with at all, I think 00:09:55 You said your eyes don't paralyze, but what do they do instead? 00:10:10 Oh, they currently paralyze, since I haven't killed paralysis just yet. 00:10:17 Oh, hmmm 00:10:25 But they'll have effects that lock off individual actions instead. 00:10:36 One to block potions, one to block melee attacks, etc. 00:11:43 The other possible spellbook for the primordials is Ice Storm, Symbol of Torment, Haste, Lehudib's Crystal Spear, Blink Away, and Greater Healing. 00:12:35 Though it may be that Torment *and* potent conjurations on one enemy is too much. 00:13:15 On something that hastes itself and is already faster than normal 00:13:28 Where do these show up, anyway? 00:13:58 Like, are they bosses of some place, or normal-ish spawns? 00:14:54 I raised this in #crawllight but since we're discussing it here I'll note that these are crazier-spells (but less hp, silencable, dispellable, &c) pan lords, and I disagree with the idea that hard mode games should be expected to do extended in preperation for zot 00:15:43 Yeah, I was about to say 'Even without the torment, that conjurer lich is considerably stronger than Lom' 00:16:26 same with the summoner lich vs mnoleg 00:16:28 11 extra HD on the ice storm, and potentially 2.4 times as fast, not to mention the crystal spear 00:16:44 Less hp, but who cares about that when you get double HD 30 ice stormed? 00:17:03 (Though I suppose dispel undead will work on them, but still) 00:17:22 expecting players to have dispel for primordial liches would be bad design 00:17:31 I agree 00:17:35 Hence the 'but still' 00:17:57 The general concept seems okay, but I think they're probably a bit much 00:18:50 I don't know whether they're actually a bit much or not in practice, but they're a bit much relative to panlords and that worries me 00:19:14 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-316-gc91d766 00:24:24 dtsund: imo the monster is not unmanagable but it carries two (major) risks 00:24:33 1. it's undead, thus, dispel undead becomes far more valuable 00:24:43 2. it spams the hell out of summons, thus mass abjuration becomes more valuable 00:24:57 if you go too far, you risk bringing both of those spells into "necessary to win" status, which is a bad thing 00:25:20 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:06 also, this may or may not be useful (I think sprint's xp system is largely to blame). But I tried to have a "completely ridiculous" tier of monsters in arena sprint, and you know what happened? players just max all their skills and become even stronger 00:27:17 I may or may not have fixed that, we'll see... 00:28:53 evilmike: Also, silence works. 00:29:42 true... but ancient liches are already pretty beefy. if you go too far, it might be hard to kill one within a silence cast 00:30:01 crawl light still has nerfed silence, I assume (didn't see any commits changing that) 00:30:21 (old silence = full LOS until the spell ends) 00:30:32 It was changed before split, I thought 00:30:33 Oh yeah, almost forgot it was ever otherwise. 00:30:47 Wait, old silence was FULL LoS? 00:30:57 the fork was post silence-nerf, but i figrued old silence was so OP its probably not going back in crawl light 00:31:00 I knew it didn't shrink, but I didn't know it was ever full LoS 00:31:08 Yeah, I'm not bringing back old-silence. 00:31:14 I have imported the boost to scroll frequency. 00:31:31 I saw that one as more of a bug fix, to be honest 00:31:54 it was like... 10/10000 (roughly) 00:32:14 Yeah, I'm not sure I ever ended up using a scroll in the old system. You'd be lucky to find a single one to burn on read-IDing it 00:32:26 I know... I actually boosted it before I got to the import, but you boosted it more, so I cranked it up again. 00:32:35 the average number of scrolls of silence you'd find in a game was probably like... 0.2 00:32:54 (I'm just pulling numbers out of my ass here, but it's less than 1) 00:34:57 I think they'd still be fearsome enough for my purposes if I replaced eyes with no_spell and symbol of torment with cause fear. 00:35:26 what if you make paralysis giant eyes only? I agree that paralysis is a bullshit mechanic, but I feel like it's fair on eyeballs 00:35:38 because they are *extremely* slow, and you can negate them by just walking away 00:35:54 Remember, though, those will be hasted eyeballs. 00:35:58 this is very different from a gnome with a wand of paralysis 00:36:01 ohhh right 00:37:08 Suppose there are 5 Abyss levels -- what if each floor had a different dungeon generation theme? 00:37:13 @??giant eyeball 00:37:13 giant eyeball (16G) | Spd: 3 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 0/1 | lev | Res: 06magic(12), asphyx | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 00:37:27 so...spd 5 with light haste? 00:37:28 bh: nah... i'd rather you keep the theme consistent, but make the deeper levels more corrupted 00:37:38 bh: infinite number of abyss levels, with scaling formulae 00:37:45 wait no agh 00:37:48 Haste uses div_rand_round in both Light and SS, IIRC. 00:38:00 bh: this is a model which other branches use for example. deep swamp = more shallow water. deep spider = more webs. you get the idea 00:38:02 Abyss:∞ 00:38:08 the layout itself doesnt change in any of thsoe though 00:38:12 Wensley: no. No one wants to go to Abyss:324215215 00:38:23 are you sure? 00:38:25 bh: hahaha, you really underestimate crawl's playerbase 00:38:25 Abyss:SIL 00:38:34 some people like chaining zigs, farming demonic runes 00:38:36 1tell ragdoll challenge accepted 00:38:39 surely some people will like diving abyss 00:39:02 I actually think infinite scaling Abyss difficulty is amusing 00:39:15 that seems like it would have awful balance problems. 00:39:16 As long as getting the rune is simply and brief at a relatively shallow depth 00:40:04 balance problems? 00:40:06 As for balance, I'm not sure you need to worry about difficulty blanace for something clearly not intended 00:40:18 Any more than doing Tomb while holding the orb 00:40:36 i like infinite depth also 00:40:44 or 27 00:40:50 Could be a new sort of challenge game. How deep can you survive! :P 00:41:07 we have Zig 00:41:28 it seems like it would be different from a zig 00:41:34 there can be multiple challenges 00:41:40 bh: I guess I've never told you that I wish that zigs were infinite and scaled 00:41:41 Yeah, it's pretty different 00:41:59 Wensley: something about 41qys-pan 00:42:13 you really need a catchier name for that fork 00:42:22 yes :( 00:42:31 how about 4.2 00:42:36 haha 00:42:40 crawl 5 00:42:42 Life, the universe, and Crawl 00:42:52 Wensley: once I figure out how to go from Abyss:1 to Abyss:2, I'll consider making it have 27 levels 00:43:00 renaissance crawl 00:43:17 please just dont up the number of items or anything 00:43:25 we want to *discourage* players from going that deep 00:43:42 Items should go down, monsters should go up 00:43:54 bh: it's also flavourful for something called "abyss" to be dep and terrifying 00:44:22 well, it seems like there should be -some- reason to do it aside from bragging rights 00:44:26 evilmike: I think upping the items might be useful for 'normal' depths, though 00:44:28 zigs give you stuff 00:44:30 But clearly not for extra ones 00:44:34 evilmike: tempting people into danger with riches seems nice... probem is keeping the difficulty curve up 00:44:56 also having reasons other than speed to getthe rune lower is nice 00:45:03 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:47:32 I think the "don't encourage scumming" principle overrides all of that, even though you have a point 00:47:57 pan + zigs are enough 00:48:10 Even moreso for just looking for escapes than getting the rune, I think. I mean, I would generally dive for a quicker escape in later game, but some people might prefer to play it safe and slow if the ONLY advantage was speed 00:48:31 I'm not convinced, but it is a point (it came up in ##crawl earlier tonight) 00:49:09 evilmike: well, the idea is that the only char that can scum it is one that can trivially win anyway, with an ideal design... but i agree that scumming is a very major risk 00:49:33 So how will the banishment rules work? 00:49:44 Each time you're banished, you get sent one level deeper than the deepest you've been? 00:50:06 its supposed to be a voluntary thing 00:50:13 find a portal deeper -> increase chance of getting a rune 00:50:25 get the rune, and the chance of an exit skyrockets (permanently) 00:50:34 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:02 -!- SirVaulterScoff has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:02 i thijk banishment sendihng you deeper is good too 00:51:11 to determine the depth of the current branch, is there something less crude than peeking at branch-data? 00:51:28 involuntary deepening wouldn't really work with only 5 or so levels, and especially not with how you can get chain banished though that's a problem in its own right (escape abyss, immediately banished by what sent you there) 00:51:29 you.depth() 00:51:41 that's how you do it from lua anyway 00:52:21 monqy: that doesnt happen, you get bsanish immunity now 00:52:26 evilmike: max depth of the branch, rather than current 00:52:28 for a short time 00:52:29 elliott: oh good 00:52:36 but still!!! 00:52:41 bh: gimme a seck 00:52:44 How short a short time is it, anyway? 00:52:49 I can't remember the numbers 00:52:51 10 turns or so 00:52:56 Oh, quite a bit longer than I thought 00:53:01 I thought it was like... 2 at most or something 00:53:02 Wensley: I thought it was 100-200 turns? 00:53:07 maybe! 00:54:31 you.attribute[ATTR_BANISHMENT_IMMUNITY] = you.elapsed_time + 100 + random2(100) 00:54:41 is that 10-20? 00:55:35 monqy: well, at the very least stuff should banish you the deepest you've gone i.e.: abyss depth increases are permanent 00:55:35 Looks like it 00:55:47 making it go one further seems interesting to me; it gives even high-level players a reason to avoid banishment 00:55:57 Don't they already have reasons to avoid it? 00:56:11 tedium 00:56:19 well, they won't if they can handle abyss:1, except for it being boring 00:56:28 and for high scores, but I mean from a survival perspective here 00:57:04 hm, that could be an incentive 00:57:14 do a lumenstone-style thing in the abyss 00:57:30 Banishment knocking you down a depth on its own might actually be an incentive NOT to voluntarily descend, though 00:57:31 items that show up and are just for score/whatever 00:57:40 eh, I like Crawl's scoring system 00:57:52 ontoclasm: lumenstone? Is that a minecraft thing? 00:57:53 DracoOmega: mm, fair point 00:57:57 brogue thing 00:58:04 Because if you descend as far as you're comfortable with, then you risk the next banish putting you lower than you're comfortable with 00:58:11 if you go down past the amulet they show up 00:58:29 sweet -- I'm the first person to make it to Abyss:27 ;) 00:58:42 the only bad part of crawl scoring (which is actually pretty bad) is that you can do stupid things to minimize turncount 00:58:51 e.g. dancing back and forth with chei instead of resting normally 00:58:53 evilmike: like hit things with exec axes? 00:58:54 right 00:59:03 but otherwise its a pretty good system 00:59:06 good thing that's so tedious nobody bothers :) 00:59:16 its simple, and I think its quite fair to say that a higher score is a "better" win than a lower one 00:59:50 I think it might value runes a little too highly (over speed), and I don't like the basically completely different score used for non-winning games, but other than that I consider it a role model for roguelike scoring systems 01:01:20 well... I'd say runes and time are equally important dispite runes having a massive impact 01:01:30 you can only get 15 runes, and thus, time is the main factor for full wins 01:01:32 i consider crawl a role model for roguelikes in general :P 01:01:34 turns, rather 01:01:46 as for low-rune games, its not too weird for a 3-runer to beat a 4-runer 01:01:58 evilmike: right, but it's quite hard for a 14-runer to beat a 15-runer 01:02:02 unless the latter has a really bad time 01:02:05 The only situation the difference between them mostly comes up is that really fast low-run games to still lose decisively to average high-rune games, but that seems fine to me 01:02:05 true 01:02:12 14-rune highscores aren't all that uncommon 01:02:13 (having said that I think one of the top all-time games is a 14-runer, but iirc it's /really/ fats) 01:02:14 *fast 01:02:32 a few last I checked actually but some of them may have been obsoleted 01:02:39 !hs * 01:02:47 !hs * -2 01:02:53 1782411. hyperbolic the Petrodigitator (L20 DDEE), worshipper of Makhleb, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2011-03-02, with 40764447 points after 35317 turns and 7:29:40. 01:02:53 1782410/1782411. hyperbolic the Executioner (L27 DDCK), worshipper of The Shining One, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2009-11-21, with 36620901 points after 39740 turns and 7:53:59. 01:03:08 i want someone to beat 50 mil 01:03:24 shorter vaults + abyss diving = the secret fifty million score tech? 01:03:32 would that be... sub-30k 15 runes? 01:03:36 or just let wasp play enough and get lucky... 01:03:36 what kind of turncount would you need for a 50 mil game 01:04:35 -!- VideoGames is now known as Roka 01:04:42 -!- Roka is now known as VideoGames 01:04:50 dtsund: about those lich things of yours: why not just replace the panlords they're similar to with those in hard mode? 01:05:18 alternatively, make zot scale on the number of runes you put into it, and only have those liches when you have a bunch of runes, so you're ready to deal with uberpanlord liches (you'd have to make zot a one-chance thing for this) 01:05:23 !hs * urune=14 01:05:23 194. elliptic the Archmage (L27 DEAE), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 14 runes on 2012-07-21, with 32355846 points after 39543 turns and 9:01:01. 01:05:32 -!- blackcus1ard has quit [Quit: Counted eleven steps when his brain said ten.] 01:06:21 wtf? How the hell did he run that so fast? 01:06:25 -!- morduin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:42 by going fast 01:06:53 press the keys real quick 01:07:23 !lg * urune=15 min=turns 01:07:24 1782. hyperbolic the Petrodigitator (L20 DDEE), worshipper of Makhleb, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2011-03-02, with 40764447 points after 35317 turns and 7:29:40. 01:07:35 that was the most ridiculous run 01:07:52 oh right that is just the all-around high score 01:08:06 shatter exploiting ftw... 01:08:22 elliott: the turn count I mean. 01:08:37 bh: download the ttyrec :) 01:08:54 https://gitorious.org/~bhickey/crawl/bhickeys-crawl/commits/inception -- if anyone wants to follow along at home 01:08:58 bh: you press the keys so fast you get multiple turns in one 01:09:07 -!- Turgor has quit [] 01:09:36 !lg * urune=15 min=dur 01:09:36 1782. Elynae the Conqueror (L27 MiFi), worshipper of Zin, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-02-18, with 13686564 points after 115199 turns and 3:02:57. 01:10:04 oh man, so close to breaking the 3 hour mark 01:10:18 that's so elynae 01:10:56 I wonder if Elynae could break the three hour mark with the same speed-ups he's used for 3-rune games... I bet it wouldn't work too well, like trying to sprint a marathon 01:11:15 heavy macro use or what? 01:11:42 the only macros elynae uses are o and tab 01:11:52 he is just really, really fast 01:11:55 !lg * won min=dur -2 01:11:55 8876/8877. Elynae the Conqueror (L25 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2012-06-23, with 1873843 points after 49257 turns and 1:08:43. 01:12:15 !lg * won min=dur -3 01:12:16 8875/8877. spenman the Ninja (L18 SpEn), worshipper of Ashenzari, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2012-07-20, with 1994028 points after 37308 turns and 1:11:35. 01:12:24 wow, where is N7's 01:12:27 !lg * won min=dur -4 01:12:28 8874/8877. 78291 the Backstabber (L15 SpEn), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-08-28, with 3765072 points after 16625 turns and 1:11:51. 01:12:42 !lg * won max=dur 01:12:42 8877. Cuckatoo the Farming Talismancer (L27 MuFi), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 61 runes on 2007-08-01, with 2200969 points after 3190190 turns and 224:36:31. 01:12:52 !lg * won max=dur -100 01:12:53 8778/8877. qqryq the Petrodigitator (L27 HaEE), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2012-04-04, with 1812084 points after 121412 turns and 51:10:48. 01:13:41 !lg * max=dur 01:13:45 1782420. Eronarn the Grave Robber (L1 GhNe), quit the game on D:1 on 2008-03-08, with 6 points after 0 turns and 327:09:44. 01:14:07 hahaha 01:14:12 learn add eronarn reasons 01:14:35 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:07 !lg * max=turns 01:15:11 1782421. apocalypserobin the Farming Insei (L3 VpMo), quit the game in the Temple (circular temple 6) on 2011-10-25, with 67 points after 199999999 turns and 36:40:50. 01:15:28 evilmike, you around? 01:16:51 Time to die, an Abyss.cc! 01:20:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:26:02 -!- Chozo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 4.0b12pre/20110203165105]] 01:26:04 Blood and code for Makhleb! 01:26:19 lexackson: for a bit 01:27:13 i wanted to tell you that i'm really pumped for your new sprint 01:27:30 thanks 01:27:32 do you need help testing or are you looking for feedback? 01:27:46 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:27:53 i have gotten tons of feedback, more is appreciated 01:28:04 i pushed some changes to it this weekend so keep that in mind 01:28:46 yeah i just started a game now, i'm gonna play a bit tonight, then think about it and take some notes 01:29:20 |amethyst: oh by the way 01:29:22 there is a lot of good design in there already :) 01:29:28 should also say, while i'm mostly happy with the balance (for the main 27 rounds anyway), the goal is more to just make it a fun/crazy distraction 01:29:39 |amethyst: shouldn't the abyss shaking message when you pick up the rune be in the same colour as messages like when you get pulled into another part of the abyss? 01:29:40 so if something seems a bit... imbalanced, I'm not super concerned unless it takes away from the fun 01:29:41 elliott: I don't want people visiting Zot:3 with three runes, then leaving, getting the other 12, and coming back. 01:29:42 they have a non-standard colour IIRC 01:29:54 dtsund: i already addresed that 01:30:05 okay, cool 01:30:07 Oh, sorry, missed that part. 01:30:41 (one-chance-only zot would also definitely be fitting for hard mode, I think) 01:31:08 While I kind of agree, I also don't want to do funny rules gotchas like that in hard. 01:31:12 have you thought about special terrain? for instance zig sprint has a chance for shoals levels 01:31:21 lexackson: oh here is one thing i would like... the way it works right now, there are several "tiers" of monster sets, and you generally go up one after boss rounds. problem is, the early game ones are a lot more limited than later ones 01:31:40 dtsund: you could make every branch single-try :p 01:31:44 and its hard to come up with early stuff thats also interesting. so suggestions are welcome 01:31:49 elliott: you're a picky one :) 01:31:53 okay, i'll keep that in mind 01:31:59 lexackson: i would prefer to keep the map static, with the only changes being from you/monsters fucking it up 01:32:04 bh: nits are my favourite friends 01:32:09 i just can't stop picking them 01:32:11 for example, aquamancers creating pools, or orb spiders blowing up the central pillars 01:32:13 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:32:14 elliott: get a lice comb 01:32:20 i am the lice comb! 01:32:22 /nick lice_comb 01:32:52 elliott: I'm thinking of implementing DoomRL-style challenge games for 0.3, and enforced ironman is one of the things I'm thinking of. 01:33:22 lexackson: note... it's fairly straightforward to altar the terrain in game (in fact the map does this after round 27 with the exit). it's just something i don't want to do, for the sake of keeping things simple 01:33:27 alter* 01:33:45 the really harsh part of ironman in crawl's layout is having to do lair rune branches shortly after you find lair 01:33:55 okay, i can understand that, just thought i'd throw it out there 01:34:02 Well, the way it'd work is it'd keep track of what you have access to. 01:34:10 (but that's a good thing) 01:34:27 So once you find a Lair entrance, every floor thereafter would have a staircase to D:next and Lair:1. 01:34:29 you could copy the rules from elliptic's elfrobin-esque tournament banner thing if you want something more lenient 01:35:33 And if you enter Lair:3, see the Snake entrance, and go to Lair 4, there'd be staircases to D:next, Lair:5, Snake:1, probably Slime:1, etc. 01:36:25 that doesn't really seem very ironman at all 01:36:35 you can delay doing a branch end for a very long time just by doing other things 01:37:25 No backtracking, no stashes; if you see something you can't handle, you have to abandon the level and never return. 01:37:34 evilmike: I want the bots to report what I round I was on when I die in thunderdome 01:37:46 It'd probably be one of the easier challenges, though. 01:37:52 Wensley: if you'd like i can add milestones to it 01:38:06 but... the various bots would need to be patched, or it would be too spamy :( 01:38:09 you could possibly just hack it up 01:38:16 so like 01:38:21 dtsund: I'd prefer just strict ironman rules (you can't go up until you reach the branch ending and then you can only go up and the >s collapse behind you) with the normal layout 01:38:23 if you die on round 6 01:38:28 it reports you as being on D:6 01:38:29 that would be less weird + more challenging 01:38:31 instead of the useless "D" 01:38:41 Round:6 01:38:49 -!- moxian has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:38:50 that wouldn't require any changes 01:38:51 Wensley: no thanks :P 01:38:53 elliott: You'd have to do Slime right after Lair:5 if you wanted to do it at all. 01:38:54 and we be awesome 01:38:57 :) 01:38:59 you can use rune count to get a rough measure of progress 01:38:59 dtsund: sure 01:39:05 dtsund: it is meant to be a challenge, right? 01:39:18 not like slime is required, anyway, so it would be a voluntary conduct on top of a voluntary conduct 01:39:41 (i would suggest removing shaft traps in such a mode) 01:39:42 Well, "voluntary"; if I'm doing this DoomRL-style, it's enforced. 01:40:00 it's a voluntary enforced conduct 01:40:02 i love words 01:40:18 it's a voluntary conduct because you decide to play it rather than regular crawl light 01:40:24 Wensley: in fact the runes being given the way they are is largely so we can do stuff like this: 01:40:32 !lg * sprint map=arena_sprint x=urune 01:40:33 2950. [urune=0] Wensley the Nimble (L8 DsWr), worshipper of Trog, blasted by Aizul (poison arrow) in Sprint (Sprint VI: "Thunderdome") on 2012-09-03, with 1383 points after 666 turns and 0:14:41. 01:40:36 so presumably you want to impose optional additional difficulty on yourself 01:40:44 so we know that guy didnt make it to round 5 :P 01:40:53 seems like the major obstacle to getting perfect early rounds is just finding all of the monsters 01:40:55 haha 01:40:58 make it past* 01:41:15 lexackson: demonspawn with nightstalker sucks 01:41:40 you need to be very aggressive to kill everything though, yes 01:42:17 i've been walking around shouting 01:42:41 "Who wants some more?!" 01:43:31 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:43:42 basically, when the 50 turn warning comes up, every monster has spawned (a bit before this) 01:43:58 this is enough time to go around the arena and check everywhere, unless you're slow 01:44:12 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44:31 but it still can go down to the wire, unless you're lucky/reall fast. some people do manage to get extremely large streaks 01:44:53 -!- inde has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:45:04 maybe it should announce when each monster spawns and where? maybe too spammy 01:45:15 elliott: it does in debug mode. it's quite spammy 01:45:30 elliott: If it's too easy that way, I could also maybe import the Spelunky ghost. 01:45:36 one thing it does do, is 50% of rounds pick a direction and _only_ spawn from there 01:45:49 so in those ones, you can camp out and kill stuff without needing to search much 01:47:37 some people seem to find these ones more fun. may be worth increasing to 100%, but i don't know 01:48:03 could just have a single spawn point if you make it 100% 01:48:40 well, the way I set it up, it works so the monster can *only* spawn on spawn points. and i want it to be a valid strategy to deliberately block those points 01:48:50 a single point would mean you can just stand on it and wait out the timer :P 01:50:01 evilmike, elliott: Any suggestions on how to scale the abyss rune chance? I'm thinking: no chance of finding it at all until A:3 or A:4 01:50:14 but beyond that, should it be a flat chance or should there be a benefit in diving? 01:50:33 increase at higher depths 01:50:37 there should be a benefit to diving 01:50:39 a strong benefit 01:50:43 maybe diminishing returns? 01:50:50 could just make it a linear increase, it doesnt need to be complicated 01:50:55 mm 01:51:29 and lugonites should maybe get +(piety stars) extra levels to find it 01:51:48 I would just make the rune more frequent in general for Lugonites 01:51:50 lets say a low chance on A:3, same as current abyss on A:4, and a high chance on A:5 01:51:52 as it is now 01:52:37 3 could be half as common as 4, 5 twice as common as 4. something like that. maybe that's too crude? 01:52:45 evilmike: hm, shouldn't the base chance be the same as the current abyss? it's enough of a trawl as it is -- if there is ever going to be a situation where people decide to play paranoid and stay as shallow as they can, it shouldn't be even more tedious, should it? 01:52:45 evilmike: I was going to scrap the "time spent in abyss" mechanic and run it off only "depth in abyss" -- which leaves no way to translate the current system 01:53:19 elliott: I guess so 01:53:20 bh: just make lugonu increase the chance for a given tile to be the rune or whatever? but still forbid it for shallower than 3 01:53:26 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:50 Lugonu could make it so that you have the probability of one depth below where you actually are 01:54:22 well, I'm no good at coming up with formulas for stuff anyway 01:54:32 dtsund: shouldn't a [*....] worshipper have a worse chance than a [*****] worshipper? 01:54:44 when people ask me to, I always come up with something extremely simple, because I like stuff I can calculate in my head :P 01:55:13 I don't think piety matters all that much 01:55:34 if someone gets banished early they will still not want to deal with Abyss:3, even if they have a good chance of getting the rune if they survive 01:55:39 someone later on is going to have a good piety anyway 01:56:03 the current bump is at piety > 120 01:57:23 what are we going to call this thing anyway... 01:57:30 "new abyss" is already taken 01:57:41 "this time bh isn't going to fuck things up abyss"? 01:57:46 evilmike: newnewabyss 01:58:02 Ethiopia? 01:58:03 meetthenewabysssameastheoldabyss 01:58:09 bh: I've said before, I think your abyss was an improvement, it just wasn't enough of an improvement :P 01:58:14 abyssalstair 01:58:18 evilmike: agreed 01:58:38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_Rasselas,_Prince_of_Abissinia) 02:00:07 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:07:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 02:08:40 hmm, is it possible to buy just one from a stack in a shop? 02:09:15 afaik no 02:09:33 ^^ in the context of shopping in thunderdome's hilarious shops 02:11:29 ok -- done: at Abyss:3 you have a 7.5% of getting the rune per item, Abyss:4 -- 17% (like 8000 turns in the Abyss), Abyss:5+ -- 25%. +1 level bonus for non-penanced Lucys 02:13:51 Why can hell hounds spawn in the abyss...? grr 02:14:12 Is that a thematic complaint or a mechanical one? 02:14:17 thematic 02:14:25 bh: there should be increased chances past abyss:5 too -- say +2% for every level past abyss:5? 02:14:39 so there's a 70% chance of an item being the rune on abyss:27 02:14:48 things with "hell" in their name don't really contain themselves in hell, typically 02:14:49 all my items be runes 02:15:10 actually that'd cause a slight... weirdness 02:15:11 fr darkness sentinels, &c 02:15:13 you could get two runes in LOS at the same time 02:15:29 i don't have a good solution to this but i do believe the rune should be more common the further you go down, no matter how far that is 02:15:30 elliott: I won't write awful code. Promise. 02:15:39 but i love awful code 02:15:59 would ayone be sad if skeletal warriors did not appear in the abyss? 02:17:05 are you getting rid of the deep dwarves too 02:17:26 nah. Skeletal warriors are just.. bone shields 02:17:41 but the deep dwarves are really dumb 02:18:19 !learn add elliot_reasons but i love awful code 02:18:19 elliot reasons[1/1]: but i love awful code 02:18:21 i wish there was a cheaper way to get my large rocks enchanted in this 02:19:02 Wensley: is the single t deliberate 02:19:14 lexackson: uhh, isn't arenasprint 0.12 only 02:19:17 and hence no ammo enchantment 02:19:30 (not even 0.11 has ammo enchantment, does it?) 02:19:31 woah, what? 02:19:32