00:01:42 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-116-g26cc56c (34) 00:02:39 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-179-g6bd56ae (34) 00:03:29 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:04:48 -!- illyria has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:40 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:10:48 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:17:27 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:08 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-116-g26cc56c 00:24:30 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:37:37 -!- aleksil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:40:36 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:37 -!- Codrus|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:41:06 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:32 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:23 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:55 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:45 -!- Elk3h has quit [] 00:51:20 -!- KKCryptic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:51:46 -!- ChanServ has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:42 Staff of Poison and poison chunk autopickup (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6093) by Raxvar 01:00:07 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:11:28 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: bonk] 01:16:47 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:00 -!- chewymouse has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:53 -!- bh has quit [Quit: I won crawl so now I can stop playing.] 01:32:38 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:44:28 |amethyst * 0.12-a0-117-g67db780: Fix fsim-defending against a speed 0 monster (#6089) (5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/67db780c01ac 01:44:32 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.11 01:51:27 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: BUTTS] 01:54:33 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:57:28 -!- Kenran_ is now known as Kenran 02:01:59 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:06:45 -!- ac13__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:06 -!- Sab0t has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:51 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:03 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:32 -!- F-Glex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 02:15:59 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:41 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: nipaa~] 02:23:25 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:17 -!- anubiscrapfoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:30:02 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:32:05 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:36:40 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 02:40:45 -!- ChanServ has quit [*.net *.split] 02:46:41 -!- ac13 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:58:00 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Ukončuji] 02:58:30 -!- Borek is now known as Mandevil 03:08:48 -!- aa_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:25 -!- RushingJaws has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:20:53 moin guys 03:21:15 <|amethyst> hi 03:21:21 CDO's data-center has a heat problem. I'm shutting down the heavy services for a while, discs are quite hot already. 03:21:38 <|amethyst> heavy meaning? 03:22:29 <|amethyst> updates, dgl, and webtiles? 03:23:14 <|amethyst> (i.e. will wordpress, morgues, etc still be up?) 03:23:29 -!- permagreen has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:44 is it on fire 03:24:50 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 03:26:57 not taking down apache, |amethyst 03:27:08 <|amethyst> yay 03:27:15 <|amethyst> and sorry to hear about the problems 03:27:44 apparently games are down though? 03:27:57 <|amethyst> those are the heaviest services :) 03:29:16 <|amethyst> glad I set up CSZO :) 03:30:12 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:28 -!- psychoDaD has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:30:38 <|amethyst> is anyone around who can set the ##crawl topic? 03:31:11 <|amethyst> Napkin: also, have they given you a time estimate? 03:36:23 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:38:54 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:33 from this I conclude that |amethyst's server is next 03:40:43 beware of the data centre gremlins!!! 03:40:45 <|amethyst> No, CSN is next 03:40:48 <|amethyst> I'm after that 03:41:01 <|amethyst> then new-CAO 03:41:06 hmm, the gremlins care about webtiles? :P 03:41:46 |amethyst * 0.12-a0-119-g5d4c922: Correct signature weapons for a few uniques. (56 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 3-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/5d4c922c2458 03:41:46 |amethyst * 0.12-a0-118-g9cd3609: Don't swap from a signature to a throwable weapon (#6080). (74 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 3-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/9cd3609ffa77 03:47:35 |amethyst: perhaps this is all some sort of covert operation of strategic sabotage in order to position cszo as the One True Crawl Server 03:48:07 <|amethyst> I can neither confirm nor deny... 03:48:39 |amethyst: you can establish plausible deniability by transferring ownership of the server to me 03:49:13 <|amethyst> hey, I just gave edlothiol an account today, you can't prove anything 03:51:59 Cherry-picked 2 commits into stone_soup-0.11 04:07:18 <|amethyst> !tell edlothiol oh, if you hadn't guessed yet, the cszo cron jobs are in crawl-dev's user cron 04:07:19 |amethyst: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 04:07:43 <|amethyst> !tell edlothiol tab 04:07:43 |amethyst: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 04:08:56 -!- moldyegg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:10:03 -!- ohhaycutie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:11:27 -!- aa_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:14:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: you mentioned a problem with one of my targetting commits... is this the electricity-in-water one? 04:27:31 -!- ereinion has quit [] 04:36:55 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:37:09 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:38:00 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:38:09 New minotaur for labyrinth. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6094) by white_noise 04:44:37 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:46:57 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:52 -!- PoopBridge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:45 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 04:57:09 -!- prono has quit [Client Quit] 04:59:36 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:31 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:32 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:55 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:39 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:07:25 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:11:22 -!- MPR| has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:17:11 -!- _159 has quit [Client Quit] 05:21:48 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:47 -!- ohhaycutie has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 05:25:56 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:27:54 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:29:21 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:34:23 -!- Napkin has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:35:15 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41:13 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:42:31 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:51 -!- kober has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 05:43:28 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:22 -!- Napkin has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:52:01 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:57 -!- Gretell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:57 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:37 -!- fungee_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:58:27 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 05:58:45 -!- psychoDad has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:04:02 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:08 -!- indspenceable has quit [Client Quit] 06:06:11 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:06:46 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:32 -!- thened has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:14 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:55 -!- nago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:16:01 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:17:59 -!- thened has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:20:35 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:14 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:21:51 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:22:37 mail.cia.vc [204.152.223.100] Connection timed out 06:22:38 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:22:42 did i miss something? 06:29:19 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:26 -!- indspenceable has quit [Client Quit] 06:33:22 -!- domi_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:37 -!- indspenceable has quit [Client Quit] 06:36:08 -!- Wark- has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:45:32 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-122-gfed9ab1: Add staff of death to the hints mode check for giving a resistance (8 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/fed9ab14e098 06:45:32 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-121-g4406aee: Show handedness information on magical staves (29 minutes ago, 1 file, 26+ 17-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/4406aeede638 06:45:32 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-120-g257dd33: Remove double-handedness, make quarterstaves/lajatangs/dire flails two-handed (30 minutes ago, 6 files, 10+ 41-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/257dd331eb63 06:47:53 -!- domi is now known as domi_ 06:50:38 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-124-gfd9fe11: Upgrade the bow of Krishna to a longbow (6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/fd9fe111f1fd 06:50:38 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-123-g8fbba26: Cap the Sword of Power at +27, linear growth instead of stepped down (8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/8fbba2656916 07:02:17 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:37 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:04:43 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes is now known as HangedMan 07:05:55 Zotdef monster placement is wrong (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6095) by atomjack 07:06:20 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:33 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:59 -!- guppyfry has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:22:50 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:23 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:51 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:37:43 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:37 -!- Ptablet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:43:43 MarvinPA: if you want to upgrade Botono, instead of trashing its theme (of a primitive weapon) and making it a [demon] trident, what about giving it some "curse" gimmick, like random bad enchantments on the victim? 07:43:43 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:44:02 something voodoo based 07:44:22 for example, a partial chance to attack one's friends instead 07:45:00 -!- zooko has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:00 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:47:05 -!- VengefulCarrot has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:12 scythe of curses 2.0? 07:47:39 -!- jlewis has quit [Changing host] 07:47:50 kilobyte: could be done as a 1-turn confusion? 07:48:45 4.1 had a (ridiculous) spear of Voo-Doo 07:48:58 hm, something like that could be interesting, yeah 07:51:07 What did it do? 07:52:14 elliott: joke's that Botono is Voo-Doo (but completely different) 07:52:45 dpeg: i forget completely... monqy probably knows 07:53:00 all i remember is it was ridiculous 07:53:10 voo-doo was a noisy rN vamp stlth-- +3,+10 spear, or something like that 07:53:14 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:29 (for newcomers, this was back when vamp hunger applied over time when wielded rather than on wield) 07:53:37 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:54:28 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:51 looks like in 4.1 it's an unrand with nothing special at all 07:55:16 (unrands had no special code above artefact properties) 07:56:22 yeah 07:58:20 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:20 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Changing host] 07:58:20 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:45 OSX tiles trunk build crashes on launch... known problem? 08:03:29 -!- Rjs has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:58 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12:07 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:24 freefall: you can report it, I don't recall any such recent problems reported. I don't guarantee a timely fix, though. 08:12:46 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:25 galehar * 0.12-a0-126-g379090f: New option: sacrifice_before_explore. (11 minutes ago, 5 files, 24+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/379090f1dd21 08:17:25 galehar * 0.12-a0-125-g14d1690: List items on the floor which can be sacrificied. (40 minutes ago, 3 files, 49+ 10-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/14d169078927 08:17:26 galehar * 0.11-b1-37-gecccd64: New option: sacrifice_before_explore. (11 minutes ago, 5 files, 24+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/ecccd640c287 08:17:26 galehar * 0.11-b1-36-g16b01e7: List items on the floor which can be sacrificied. (40 minutes ago, 3 files, 49+ 10-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/16b01e787d1a 08:28:38 -!- buki has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:07 -!- anubiscrapfoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:37:51 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:40:37 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:39 -!- zooko has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:46:43 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:52 -!- white_noise has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:47:00 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:58 -!- zooko has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:10 hmm, ogen starts with a club but oghu starts with a short sword? 08:59:18 I mean, clubstabbing, but... 09:03:45 -!- nago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:07:38 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:09:11 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 09:22:21 -!- zooko has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:23:05 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:37 -!- CIA-68 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:47 -!- CIA-133 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:09 -!- zooko has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:09 -!- BanMido has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:28:40 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:09 -!- Impy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:30:47 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:18 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:31:46 -!- zooko has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:31:48 -!- tJener has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:32:34 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120421074340]] 09:39:29 -!- ttf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:39:30 -!- kober has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 09:41:50 -!- psychoDad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:42:57 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:28 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:36 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:44:36 -!- zooko has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:26 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:58:24 is there a way to disable interrupts temporarily? Like interrupt_block, but accessible from another file 10:02:58 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:26 -!- ChongLi has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:08:40 -!- chaaar has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:10:00 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-131-g0eb1b36: Tweak some species descriptions (3 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 8-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/0eb1b366bdcc 10:10:00 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-130-g41bd266: Replace Evaporate in the tutorial (23 hours ago, 1 file, 20+ 33-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/41bd26601793 10:10:00 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-129-gfa54870: Replace Fulsome+Evap in the book of Alchemy with Petrify+Intoxication (2 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/fa54870f199c 10:10:00 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-128-g54df5be: Remove Evaporate and Fulsome Distillation, and the book of Stalking (3 hours ago, 26 files, 53+ 598-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/54df5be6b9d9 10:10:00 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-127-g19fbaf8: Remove Stalkers (3 hours ago, 9 files, 17+ 61-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/19fbaf86f4ea 10:12:14 good riddance :) 10:14:32 nerf all the spells 10:15:20 It finally happened 10:15:33 .12 is off to a great start 10:16:13 -!- jklwers has quit [] 10:16:47 RIP 10:16:48 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:18:00 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:19:55 Uh, RIP is supposed to be used respectfully. Stalkers deserve no respect. 10:20:13 |amethyst * 0.12-a0-132-g96a66cb: Fix PROX_NEAR_STAIRS in ZotDef (atomjack; #6095). (20 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/96a66cb2e87f 10:20:53 <|amethyst> Lightli: it's also asking that they not rise from the dead :) 10:22:24 -!- RollieTG has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:22:40 it seems that ogas also starts with a club... is there a good reason oghu starts with a short sword, or is it just something nobody has thought about much? 10:22:42 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:13 <|amethyst> probably the latter, and that they're not really intended to use the weapon the way As and En are 10:23:13 fr: miasma cloud. Level 7 Necromancy/Air/Conjuration 10:23:21 at one point oghu got a mace or something way better than the dagger that everyone else got iirc 10:23:33 so i changed it to be a short sword for everyone 10:23:35 mm, I suppose OgEn and OgAs both have clubstabbing in common :p 10:23:39 <|amethyst> it's a backup for OgHu, the primary damage-dealing method for OgAs/OgEn 10:24:21 OgEn!!! 10:24:23 MarvinPA: well OgHu starting with a club would be worse, so I'm not going to complain too loudly :p 10:24:24 Club stabbing!!! 10:24:30 (although training M&F from turn 0 is nice) 10:25:28 galehar * 0.12-a0-133-gf4535fe: New option: auto_sacrifice. (8 minutes ago, 6 files, 26+ 3-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/f4535fe2c18b 10:25:28 Cherry-picked 2 commits into stone_soup-0.11 10:25:31 it's unlikely that you don't find one before turn 100 :) 10:26:43 galehar: but, but, oghu starts with 0.5 sbl! wasted exp!! 10:27:13 :) 10:27:34 guess you'll have to go Ash to reskill those xp ;) 10:36:08 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:38:30 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:58 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-197-g7ed83cf (34) 10:46:02 dolorous * 0.12-a0-134-g5e8d5c4: Add spacing fixes. (11 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/5e8d5c42d31e 10:47:21 -!- QubeNub has quit [Client Quit] 10:48:13 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:48:27 -!- neoxx has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:51:07 edlothiol * 0.12-a0-135-g729cd84: Show the player in the chat if they're using Webtiles. (5 minutes ago, 3 files, 23+ 19-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/729cd84f8eb3 10:52:39 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: i am ashamed of myself] 10:56:55 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:15 -!- zooko has left ##crawl-dev 10:59:32 <|amethyst> Napkin: btw, noticed that you can select 0.12 and 0.13 for "fixed in branch" but not for "product branch" 10:59:42 <|amethyst> Napkin: (in Mantis, that is) 10:59:45 -!- Impy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:01:02 -!- kek has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:02:32 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 11:07:51 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:47 -!- Cheibrodos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:10:34 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:33 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:14:45 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:15:00 -!- kek has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:17:35 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:55 -!- Edgeworthh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:23:26 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:23:28 without fulsome/evap to make use of the distinction, could potions of poison and potions of strong poison just be combined? 11:25:55 -!- Vidiny has quit [Quit: ugh i hate girls] 11:26:52 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:33 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:29:10 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:30:26 I just noticed that we now have 27 backgrounds. 11:30:32 Clearly this must stay as it is. 11:31:36 <|amethyst> and we need 9 more gods and 3 more races 11:31:47 Yes. 11:31:51 -!- DemusSpark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:00 add potion throwing (bad potions only) to replace evap, use throwing skill 11:32:15 someone will probably yell at me for that, i'm pretty sure it's on the "won't do" list 11:32:16 -!- domi_ has quit [Quit: さようなら] 11:32:19 What, no throwing potions of experience at your orc knights to turn them into orc warlords? 11:32:22 :b 11:32:52 FR: Mountain Dwarves. 11:32:55 conjurer can be removed if some wonderful new background concept materialises to keep it at 27 :P 11:33:03 (also conjurer could be removed anyway, probably) 11:33:03 Then we only need 2 more races. 11:33:18 <|amethyst> Lava Orcs 11:33:23 conjurers are fun :( 11:33:43 <|amethyst> I do miss magma conjurers 11:34:00 unlike most removed combos they actually play well, the only complaint about Cj I can see is that they have a somewhat weird theme (ice/air) 11:34:01 <|amethyst> not that I was any good with them, but... 11:34:01 !lg * won (( wz || cj || ne || su || fe || ie || ae || ee || vm )) s=role 11:34:02 3138 games for * (won ((wz || cj || ne || su || fe || ie || ae || ee || vm))): 494x Wizard, 449x Fire Elementalist, 366x Necromancer, 364x Earth Elementalist, 363x Ice Elementalist, 301x Conjurer, 254x Venom Mage, 240x Air Elementalist, 200x Summoner, 39x Berserker, 13x Transmuter, 10x Crusader, 10x Monk, 6x Skald, 4x Warper, 3x Stalker, 3x Wanderer, 3x Chaos Knight, 3x Healer, 2x Death Knight, 2x... 11:34:10 !lg * won (( wz || cj || ne || su || role=fe || ie || ae || ee || vm )) s=role 11:34:11 3031 games for * (won wz || cj || ne || su || role=fe || ie || ae || ee || vm): 494x Wizard, 449x Fire Elementalist, 366x Necromancer, 364x Earth Elementalist, 363x Ice Elementalist, 301x Conjurer, 254x Venom Mage, 240x Air Elementalist, 200x Summoner 11:34:27 !lg * cv~~0.1. won (( wz || cj || ne || su || role=fe || ie || ae || ee || vm )) s=role 11:34:34 No games for * (cv~~0.1. won wz || cj || ne || su || role=fe || ie || ae || ee || vm) 11:34:38 <|amethyst> evilmike: give them a huge fire/ice spellbook (with the idea that they pick one, but maybe eventually can use both) 11:34:43 !lg * won cv~~0.1. (( wz || cj || ne || su || role=fe || ie || ae || ee || vm )) s=role 11:34:44 984 games for * (won cv~~0.1. wz || cj || ne || su || role=fe || ie || ae || ee || vm): 189x Fire Elementalist, 150x Earth Elementalist, 149x Wizard, 111x Ice Elementalist, 86x Summoner, 82x Conjurer, 79x Venom Mage, 71x Necromancer, 67x Air Elementalist 11:36:05 <|amethyst> a race or god that removes cross-training penalties could be interesting 11:36:32 i dunno, those are used really sparingly in crawl 11:36:42 i'd just give that effect to an existing race 11:36:51 <|amethyst> that's what I meant 11:36:51 I think the only opposing skills are Fire/Ice magic and Earth/Air magic? 11:36:56 <|amethyst> Sludge Elves 11:37:06 <|amethyst> since they're the best elementalists anyway 11:37:11 I was going to suggest High Elves. <_< 11:37:12 it would have to be a race that's good at all of them (or at least average) 11:37:13 -!- ac13 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:37:14 <|amethyst> s/best/broadest/ 11:37:38 i wouldn't suggest high elves, they clearly favour certain elements 11:37:55 <|amethyst> even DE disfavours earth 11:38:21 human could be a good choice 11:38:23 <|amethyst> (and DE is one of the last races to need a spell buff anyway) 11:38:27 <|amethyst> ooh 11:38:38 Now that's an interesting thought. 11:38:54 <|amethyst> there would be much complaining about making humans non-vanilla 11:39:02 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:42 the complaining about evap removal will drown it out 11:40:50 DE elemental apts are really weird 11:41:03 !apt de 11:41:04 DE: Air: 1, Armour: -2, Axes: -2, Bows: 1, Charms: 4!, Conj: 1, Xbows: -1, Dodge: 2, Earth: 0, Evo: 1, Exp: 140, Fighting: -2*, Fire: 1, Hexes: 3, HP: -2, Ice: 1, Inv: 0, Long: -1, Maces: -3, MP: 3!, Nec: 2!, Poison: 1, Polearms: -3, Shields: -2, Short: 0, Slings: -2, Splcast: 4!, Stab: 1, Staves: 0, Stealth: 2, Summ: 1, Throw: 1, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Traps: 0, Unarmed: -2* 11:41:16 the manual explicitly mentions them being good at necromancy and earth 11:41:34 but earth is their weakest element 11:41:36 0 isn't strictly bad, but it's weird how it is lower than the others 11:42:12 also de is better than se at necro for some reason 11:42:23 i think the deep elf apts are fine though (decent to above average schools, and insanely good spellcasting). most races take the other approach 11:42:29 that earth thing is in the 4.1 manpage too 11:42:30 maybe they could get +1 earth -1 necro 11:42:37 maybe deep elves used to be good at earth in like 1998 or something 11:43:17 I mean relative to current their current apts 11:44:25 -!- Mumcon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:06 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:15 -!- bonglord has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:51:42 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54:05 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:58:21 -!- Turgor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:02:28 -!- Cheibrodos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:07:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:07:49 -!- RushingJaws has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:09:55 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:52 -!- RollieTG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:38 <|amethyst> 46 users, 1.47 GiB free. At this rate CSZO can handle around 250 simultaneous users 12:14:56 <|amethyst> s/free/used/ 12:15:16 MarvinPA: do you think it would be reasonable to keep evaporate around, without it being a starting spell? if your reason for removing it motivated by balance, i doubt it would be overpowered without fulsome around 12:15:23 -!- smeea has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:15:33 i dont like how we now have a bunch of potions now which are basically useless 12:15:49 would it even be worth learning without fulsome, though? 12:15:59 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:16:11 <|amethyst> what else are you going to do with the potions? 12:16:32 <|amethyst> I guess you could save mut in case you get a set of mutations so bad that lottery is preferable 12:17:19 i think it would be worth learning if you have foudn enough bad potions 12:17:33 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:14 right, i mean are there likely to be enough bad potions in a typical game? (i don't know but my guess would be not really) 12:18:23 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:18:28 <|amethyst> there are some vaults 12:18:32 -!- andrewhl has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:18:43 <|amethyst> I mean, even a few potions of decay or mutation can be good 12:18:53 perhaps not enough to justify an evaporate spell 12:18:57 <|amethyst> also, steam for LOS blocking 12:19:04 I'd just like to be able to do *something* with those bad potions 12:19:13 which is why I semi-seriously brought up potion throwing 12:19:31 <|amethyst> colour alchemy :) 12:19:32 the potions are there for the id game, surely? 12:19:38 we can pretend that bad potions play a role in the id game, but really, they don't, except for mutation 12:19:41 if you removed bad potions, then quaff-id would become much more viable 12:19:59 i've seen early D deaths from -- was it degeneration? 12:20:05 <|amethyst> elliott: but that means they're pointless pass the mid-game 12:20:20 <|amethyst> or early game depending on how soon you find decay and mut 12:20:22 |amethyst: doesn't that apply to lots of items? :) -- could remove bad potions from later-game floor spawns 12:20:25 well, so are a lot of items 12:20:27 <|amethyst> true 12:20:32 of course then it's spoilery in that you know potions below depth N or so are safe. 12:20:41 but hopefully by that time you shouldn't be worrying about what potions are safe or not 12:20:52 <|amethyst> let monsters but not players throw them 12:21:04 they still shouldn't be items in that case 12:21:16 if something is an item, the player should be able to use it somehow 12:21:55 you can quaff unidentified potions you know are bad to amuse xom 12:22:12 empty ebony casket? 12:22:17 (but, isn't that an argument for removing all bad artefacts?) 12:22:29 dilute the appearance of an already mostly-useless item 12:23:09 even bad artefacts play a bigger role than potions of confusion do right now 12:23:22 HangedMan: empty caskets don't generate 12:23:30 "maybe confuse yourself for a couple of turns, once, in the early game" is even more useless than a box of beasts 12:24:21 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:27 oh, right 12:24:54 ...then why keep the empty casket around instead of just making the box destroyed when emptied? 12:25:35 who knows 12:25:35 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:25:40 feel free to patch it :P 12:26:18 <|amethyst> or allow recharging to work 12:27:40 evilmike: could just pre-identify all potions :p 12:28:36 -!- xnavy has quit [Killed (asimov.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 12:28:36 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 12:30:05 spells removed, background removed, a successful day! 12:30:33 -!- syllogism has quit [] 12:31:09 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:57 i don't think evaporate alone would be sufficient reason to have a bunch of bad potions exist, under the assumption that there's no point to them without evaporate 12:33:14 clear solution: bottle god 12:33:45 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:09 about clear bottles... let's send them to their god 12:34:19 no use left for potions of water 12:34:55 kilobyte: agreed 12:34:56 true, i guess they're essentially scrolls of paper in potion form now 12:35:03 MarvinPA: <3 St/Evap removal 12:35:10 they provide a tiny amount of nutrition with no side-effects, right? :) 12:35:19 * dpeg eats a sultana. 12:35:20 yeah 12:35:42 and are somehow "not useless", unlike, say poison 12:35:52 what if bad potions dropped a harmful cloud effect on you when you tried to drink them? You open the flask and a bunch of nasty gas comes out 12:36:06 might be useful if you need to become satiated enough to go berserk, but not so satiated you can't eat a royal jelly afterwards! 12:36:22 so many bad memories of accidentally applying descent 12:37:10 (I'm thinking of something like scrolls of immolation for this cloud). Unfortunately, this doesn't make a lot of sense (you're supposed to drink potions) 12:38:03 you can open the flask in the process of trying to drink it and get stopped by the gas 12:38:14 yeah but then we'd have to explain why mummies can't do that :P 12:38:22 <|amethyst> have any US or Canada users noticed lag bursts on CSZO? 12:38:30 you suck the cork off 12:38:40 bladders aren't strong enough to pull corks 12:38:46 it would be nice though, because the bad potions would still be bad to unexpecting players, but have some limited use still 12:39:59 evilmike: yes, should find some rationalisation 12:40:45 you drink the potion of confusion and burp the meph cloud out 12:40:55 MarvinPA: Sword of Power is broken in 0.11 due to stepdown changes, I'll pick your commit there, ok? 12:41:00 ??sword of power 12:41:01 sword o' power[1/2]: 'Tis chunky great sword's plusses depend on yer current hitpoints. Startin' at -4,-4 it gets +1,+1 fer ev'ry five HP up ta +4,+4 at 40 HP, than +1,+1 fer ev'ry t'n HP up ta +20,+20 at 200 HP. 12:41:27 aha, i wondered if it'd always been unable to reach the max 12:41:36 should've figured it was because of the stepdown stuff, yeah 12:41:40 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:41:44 !learn edit sword of power s/Starting.*/Its enchantment is your HP / 10, going from +0,+0 to +27,+27./ 12:41:45 Use: !learn edit sword of power[NUM] s/// 12:41:52 !learn edit sword_of_power[1] s/Starting.*/Its enchantment is your HP / 10, going from +0,+0 to +27,+27./ 12:41:52 Syntax is: !learn edit TERM[NUM] s/REGEX/REPLACE/opts 12:41:55 pah 12:42:34 insert \s at random 12:42:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:42:42 never fails 12:42:59 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.11 12:45:17 maybe potions of poison could be kept as poisonous blood? haven't played many vampires but it's weird you can't bottle poisonous blood 12:46:08 when our problem is "there are pointless things in the game", the solution is not "let's add even more pointless things" 12:47:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:49:26 for what it's worth i never liked stalkers, don't care too much about fulsome/evap either. what bothers me is that we have about 7 potions now that only play a small role in the id game, and only one or two of those has a notable effect outside of combat 12:49:46 -!- elliott has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:11 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:23 evilmike: there could also be a misc item (rather than spell) to make those potions useful 12:50:27 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:50:58 sure, there's no need for a spell to do this 12:51:00 <|amethyst> alchemy kit 12:51:03 or give it to an existing one 12:51:05 <|amethyst> lets you mix potions 12:51:28 alchemist class for 0.12 12:51:35 why do bad potions have to be useful? 12:51:48 i assume thats what you are talking about? ill check the log... 12:52:15 alefury: Crawl has a tendency to provide use for neglected items (stones, sticks2snake, curse foo) 12:52:18 Could just make bad potions akin to Brogue's 12:52:35 dpeg: and it has a tendency not to add new neglected items 12:52:39 Trying to drink a potion of poison spawns poisonous clouds 12:52:43 erinya's surprising bouquet :I 12:52:48 evilmike: that's good! 12:52:50 already brought up, dtsund 12:53:16 HangedMan: yes, but he's mentioning a game where it works -- that's a good point, imo 12:53:54 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:54:03 <|amethyst> how big are these clouds in brogue? 12:54:08 really big 12:54:08 *Huge*. 12:54:13 <|amethyst> oh, because I was thinking 3x3 might be a bit much 12:54:18 Like, crawl-LOS big. 12:54:22 If not bigger. 12:54:22 fr: remove all the pointless potions 12:54:28 fr: remove items 12:54:33 Why do we have potions of water in the game again? 12:54:42 food 12:54:45 Evaporate 12:54:50 <|amethyst> that was also brought up 12:54:50 also that 12:54:50 Which no longer exists 12:55:00 -!- nago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:55:05 <|amethyst> Zannick: confusion provides just as much nutrition :) 12:55:15 I'd like to be rid of Evaporate in Light myself, but haven't thought of a good way to replace it for backgrounds that like it 12:55:37 clearly dcss needs a thirst clock 12:55:37 Because Evap is the *only* reason the bad potions are still around there 12:55:38 hence removing the background too :P 12:55:43 * dpeg needs to lobby more regularly for Reverse Alchemy. 12:55:53 <|amethyst> I guess light Tms still have evap? 12:55:58 Yeah. 12:56:11 dtsund: i'd argue it was the only reason for those bad potions in crawl too.. really, the main reason people use id scrolls on potions is for mutation potions 12:56:27 once you id those (and maybe cure mutation), no sane player cares if they accidentally quaff poison or slowing or whatever 12:56:46 Yeah... that's a big part of why I killed the ID game 12:56:49 maybe unless they're doing it to please xom. but that's the opposite of sane 12:57:06 <|amethyst> could give small positive effects to them, or make the negative effects worse? 12:57:26 immolation works well, I think 12:57:32 (My full reasoning for this can be found at http://pastebin.com/WeB82Qta if you're curious) 12:57:35 |amethyst: I think the big problem is that even the nastier ones have almost no effect, as long as you trink it outside of combat 12:57:43 degeneration into temporary focus? 12:57:56 drink 12:58:05 <|amethyst> evilmike: you're not even German! 12:58:39 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:40 -!- Vidiny has quit [Quit: ugh i hate girls] 13:03:03 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:03:33 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03:46 -!- ChanServ has quit [*.net *.split] 13:03:56 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:46 -!- CannibalFerox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:05:49 due: what exactly are fizzing potions supposed to do? (they currently use the tile of water, which I wanted to remove) 13:06:04 dpeg: people have tried to use immolation tactically before, there's a hilarious_death where someone fails spectacularly :P. They're alright vs ice beasts, I suppose 13:07:08 I think immolation is too weak for a self-damaging thing. 13:07:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: homonculus maybe? 13:07:12 ??immolation 13:07:12 immolation[1/4]: Scroll which creates a 3d10 fireball cent'red on ye an' 'stendin' two spaces. Na generated shallower than D:5. Does na destroy scrolls. 13:07:37 <|amethyst> %git 0ece95b4 13:07:38 due * 0.8.0-a0-4385-g0ece95b: Add the necessary enums, etc, for Homunculus spell. (1 year, 7 months ago, 3 files, 7+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/0ece95b4b3bc 13:08:08 <|amethyst> I guess that doesn't answer "exactly" :) 13:08:29 ??sword of power 13:08:29 sword o' power[1/3]: 'Tis chunky great sword's plusses depend on yer current hitpoints. Its enchantmn't be yer HP / 10, goin' from +0,+0 ta +27,+27. 13:08:44 ah, so it did work at some point 13:08:54 the !learn thing i mean 13:09:14 <|amethyst> kilobyte: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:spells:propose:homunculus 13:09:19 also, homunculus yes please 13:09:51 <|amethyst> kilobyte: doesn't explicitly mention "fizzing" but I guess that's supposed to be potions that are currently incubating a homunculus 13:10:02 it will probably suck, though 13:10:03 due to not seeming very spammable 13:10:51 homunculus could also give bad potions a use 13:11:20 its not in the proposal, but could be adapated 13:11:52 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:59 at least i think its not in the proposal, i only read it long ago 13:12:44 <|amethyst> I added a comment 13:13:05 <|amethyst> the proposal on the wiki had bad potions resulting in bad homunculi 13:13:42 can we please get the old halfling description back btw? 13:14:00 it was funny 13:14:01 Will homunculus serve as a safe way to use-ID potions? 13:14:34 a better question is "will homunculus ever actually be implemented" 13:14:34 4thArraOfDagon (L15 OpFE) ASSERT(item.is_valid(iinfo)) in 'tags.cc' at line 2430 failed. (D (Sprint)) 13:14:58 I was asking that question as part of "should it be implemented" 13:15:20 afaik due did the design and some preliminary work, but nothing happened for over a year 13:15:30 I just arrived and only briefly read over the backlog, but I'll join my voice to those who don't see why bad potions need a use so badly 13:15:48 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:15:57 FR: Potion of Death from Angband 13:16:11 no worse than amulet of inaccuracy or ring of hunger 13:16:15 -!- nuthulu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:16:20 -!- nuthulu_ is now known as nuthulu 13:16:33 that said I wouldn't mind removing some of them 13:16:48 elliptic: Those two serve a purpose, as they can be base types for randarts 13:16:56 FR: potion randarts 13:17:04 oh not this again 13:17:07 -!- adamorjames has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:17:12 someone actually proposed that on the tavern 13:17:20 ill go see if theres a badforum entry for it... 13:17:22 seriously I don't find this purpose very compelling 13:17:51 compared with making the ID game slightly more interesting 13:18:13 -!- erisdiscordia_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:18:14 -!- adamor has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:27 <|amethyst> elliptic: there was also the suggestion to instead make the bad potions worse 13:18:39 <|amethyst> elliptic: so they would make the ID game more than slightly more interesting 13:18:50 I wouldn't mind removing bad items in general (or even removing the ID game), but I don't see a reason to be desperate to come up with a new effect to use bd potions 13:18:50 <|amethyst> (mutation already does this) 13:20:20 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:32 |amethyst: currently quaff-IDing everything means wasting one potion of each type... pretty significant even not considering the bad potions 13:22:25 The same goes for read-ID 13:23:03 -!- Drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:23:19 Also, someone with intimate knowledge of the game's workings could estimate weapon enchantments by beating up plants and recording the number of misses, how long it takes to kill them, etc. 13:24:13 that part of the id game is significant, and so is the risk of mutating yourself. drinking a bad potion in combat is a risk in theory, but I find in those cases, every potion that isn't healing is bad 13:24:24 Healing or speed 13:24:36 -!- dingir has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:24:51 i've never liked potions of poison, slowing, etc, and have always felt that part of the id game was bad. It just seems especially egregious now 13:25:28 I'd be fine with making the bad effects more significant... it's just hard to think of anything that can't be neutralized by "go to a safe area and rest it off" 13:25:30 Oh, wait, I thought elliptic said "insignificant" 13:26:19 he's right, wasting a single potion of heal wounds or speed in the early game can make a huge difference (maybe not to most players, but it matters) 13:26:19 evilmike: strong poison and decay both cause players to use up a potion of curing at least 13:26:24 -!- VideoGames has quit [Ping timeout: 254 seconds] 13:26:38 neither of those exist though :P 13:26:46 It matters a little bit in the early game 13:26:54 true... curing is pretty common though 13:26:56 I agree about poison/slowing/paralysis being pretty pointless though 13:27:11 But the game's too long for it to matter beyond that 13:27:31 dtsund: people spend a lot of time in early game 13:27:45 that's why I brought up creating a small (and centred on the player) cloud effect for these potions... it would be harmful but have some niche uses 13:27:54 evilmike: much better to just remove them 13:28:01 probably 13:29:03 "bad items with extremely niche uses" sounds sort of good but doesn't work well in practice IMO... just look at immolation and noise 13:29:24 they have their uses, but they are so niche that practically nobody bothers to carry them around 13:29:34 <|amethyst> speaking of which, can we turn ?noise into projected noise now that the spell is gone? 13:29:44 I was thinking more of scrolls of torment, which are also a niche item, but more useful 13:29:49 |amethyst: no point 13:30:00 potions of mutation too (these are almost always bad, but some people like them) 13:30:07 the spell was pretty bad unless you cast it repeatedly 13:30:19 Almost always bad? 13:30:37 so it would just make a common early game item much more complicated/confusing 13:30:52 dtsund: alright, that was an exaggeration. they're just bad often enough that it's a big risk 13:31:42 evilmike: I basically only ever saw people using ?torment with non-undead chars back when it was good against TRJ (no spawns) 13:31:56 <|amethyst> does anyone use the Kiku ability? 13:31:59 yes 13:32:21 the kiku ability is nice because kiku also gives pretty good rTorment 13:32:40 and zombies to spam to keep stuff away from you while you do it 13:33:30 evilmike: I'm also a little puzzled by how drinking a potion creates a cloud... 13:33:38 -!- VideoGames_ is now known as VideoGames 13:34:08 In Brogue, the "potion" is volatile liquid that evaporates as soon as the bottle is uncorked. 13:34:25 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:34:46 <|amethyst> the inconsistency with mummies was mentioned 13:35:00 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35:01 elliptic: easy to explain a liquid becoming a gas when you open the bottle... the big problem is you can't explain how it works for mummies 13:35:51 I also don't particularly like self-cloud as an effect because if you don't notice/understand what happened, it is easy to spend multiple turns in the cloud without meaning to do so 13:36:09 -!- domi is now known as domi_ 13:36:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:36:50 that's true 13:39:04 -!- ChanServ has quit [*.net *.split] 13:40:33 -!- the_glow_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:40:51 force more 13:41:23 (IIRC, Brogue does the equivalent of force more when you do that) 13:41:47 <|amethyst> background highlighting for monsters/players on clouds (but that probably doesn't interact well with the cursor, especially not fake_cursor) 13:41:51 a status light for clouds, like there's a status light for water/lava? 13:42:05 probably too many cloud types for that to work too well though 13:42:21 <|amethyst> true 13:44:01 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:45:35 ??potions 13:45:35 potions[1/3]: agility, berserk rage, blood, brilliance, coagulated blood, confusion, cure mutation, decay, degeneration, 'sperience, gain dexterity, gain intelligence, gain str'ngth, healin', heal wounds, invisibility, levitation, magic, might, mutation, paralysis, poison, porridge, resistance, restore abilities, slowin', speed, strong poison, water 13:46:10 -!- anubiscrapfoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:46:25 confusion, decay, degeneration, paralysis, poison, slowing, strong poison 13:46:48 degeneration maybe has a reason to exist, because the stat loss can persist for a while 13:47:12 and at least makes you want to identify restore abilites 13:47:53 yeah... I'd support removing all of the others though 13:49:47 <|amethyst> btw, are their any objections to make the cloud trap vaults transparent? 13:49:53 potion of water is also pointless 13:49:55 <|amethyst> gah, s/their/there/ 13:50:08 what would making them transparent do? 13:50:16 they'd be more like normal traps 13:50:28 elliptic: that's only a fault of CIA 13:50:28 <|amethyst> elliptic: no escape hatches between them, and they wouldn't cause vetos if they appear at a cut-point 13:50:40 slow-ass bastard 13:51:13 <|amethyst> evilmike: wouldn't decay be just as persistent as degen (if not more so)? 13:51:18 |amethyst: making them transparent sounds good then 13:52:25 right, decay is okay too... the main thing I don't like about decay is that is has the potential to ruin unspoiled players' characters 13:52:54 !learn edit potion_of_water[1] s/^/In old versions (0.11-), / 13:52:54 potion of water[1/1]: In old versions (0.11-), 60 nutrition when quaffed (and nothing else), or a cloud of steam that blocks LOS and does minor damage when evaporated. Appears as "a clear potion" until identified. 13:53:04 decay would be better if it caused an instant effect, instead of something that can be cured trivially 13:53:07 possibly the rot duration should be decreased a bit 13:53:10 or that 13:53:15 we have 4 (I think) potions that can be defeated with curing 13:53:22 ponderinghat (L15 CeSt) ASSERT(item.is_valid(iinfo)) in 'tags.cc' at line 2430 failed. (Orc:1) 13:53:53 potions that can be defeated with curing doesn't bother me that much because curing is pretty nice early on and it isn't that rare to be short of it 13:54:17 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-137-gd34118a: Remove potions of water. (10 minutes ago, 30 files, 49+ 72-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/d34118a48d77 13:54:17 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-136-gfae69ba: Split Call Imp and Summon Minor Demon, for documentation purposes. (23 hours ago, 5 files, 38+ 9-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/fae69ba091fc 13:54:23 but decay would probably be better if it instantly rotted ~5 MHP rather than what it currently does 13:54:38 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:41 kilobyte: <3 13:54:49 back 13:54:59 it's not so bad to have potions that can be cured, it's just that they are all pretty similar to each other 13:55:03 evilmike: I have made good use of immolation against bees. 13:55:10 evilmike: yeah 13:55:14 in theory, rot is vastly different from strong poison. in practice I think the strategy is exactly the same 13:56:00 I'd suggest combining potions of poison and strong poison into one potion 13:56:05 with strength between the two 13:56:15 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:57:00 -!- adamorjames has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:59:27 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:00:16 for slowing/paralysis, the only purpose they serve is to discourage quaff-IDing in combat, which I think is a bad purpose 14:01:15 <|amethyst> I only fixed up cloud traps and the spider basket 14:01:40 is self-petrification ever justified (for the damage resistance)? I can't think of any good cases but maybe someone has figured out that it can be useful 14:02:07 <|amethyst> there are other traps (and other vaults) that could but don't have transparent---e.g. the boulder traps 14:02:27 -!- adamor has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 14:02:27 elliptic: most players still quaff-id 14:02:49 <|amethyst> I usually quaff-ID only in combat 14:03:01 kilobyte: uh, slowing/paralysis do nothing about quaff-IDing outside of combat 14:03:15 ^^ 14:03:35 evilmike: cast tornado, then self-petrify :P 14:03:50 <|amethyst> ` 14:03:55 kilobyte: well, the point is to encourage quaff-IDing in combat by removing the chance of it instakilling you 14:04:07 if there is ever a use for self-petrify (I'm skeptical), a potion of petrification would probably be alright 14:04:12 I don't understand what the disagreement is 14:04:27 |amethyst * 0.12-a0-138-g6922aab: Make cloud traps and spider basket transparent (#4733). (13 minutes ago, 2 files, 8+ 8-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/6922aab7d728 14:04:30 evilmike: better than self-paralysis for sure 14:06:22 what do you guys think of that bad forms proposal? That's one possible potion effect. 14:07:06 some of those bad forms have uses right? Like the tree form would presumably give you huge defenses, but wreck a bunch of your other abilities 14:07:13 not all are strictly bad, though: animated tree can be good in quite a bit of cases, but you don't know what you'll get 14:07:28 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:31 -!- MPR| has quit [Changing host] 14:07:34 -!- nooodl__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:39 -TELE -MOVE, good AC, good GDR, allows weapon and shield 14:07:47 -!- Kenran has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:47 -!- jato_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:59 -!- Zero is now known as AlsoZeor 14:08:06 (which can be obviously changed, that's only an initial design) 14:08:08 sounds possibly good for new potions, yes 14:08:20 as long as they aren't all strictly bad 14:08:29 I like the bad forms idea (should split monster polymorph spell into "polymorph" and "mutate", though). It seems like it could work as a potion too, as long as you can get something out of it 14:08:43 a _random_ bad form would make a bad potion 14:08:43 maybe the potion could just transform you into any random form, good or bad 14:08:56 so maybe you'll turn into an ice beast, and maybe you'll turn into a pig :P 14:08:58 or that 14:09:07 * kilobyte oinks! 14:10:30 evilmike: I like that 14:10:39 -!- MPR has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:39 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:40 potion of transformation or whatever 14:11:18 -!- Zeor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11:18 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11:18 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11:18 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:13:09 -!- AlsoZeor is now known as Zeor 14:14:55 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: see ya] 14:16:08 -!- Bob_ has quit [Client Quit] 14:20:50 -!- nago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:53 -!- Dixbert is now known as Dixie 14:27:00 -!- nooodl__ is now known as nooodl 14:27:50 If I am alone in my assessment that Immolation is worthy of use already now (mostly early on, of course), why not increase the damage a bit? I think the concept of self + mass damage works well. Perhaps it'd be cool if there were several self + other damage consumables, with different strengths. 14:28:38 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: link_108] 14:29:52 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-140-g241a7c8: Restore score file compat, wrt removal of Stalkers. (5 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/241a7c800356 14:29:52 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-139-g5267d6a: Give debug info for bad items. (19 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/5267d6a7651d 14:34:06 -!- domi_ has quit [Quit: さようなら] 14:34:38 dpeg: I've used immolation occasionally myself, and on weak characters I'll carry it around until lair or so... but it still sees extremely little use in general 14:35:00 the issue is the self-damage is just awful unless you have rF+, which isn't very likely that early 14:35:43 increasing damage wouldn't really help except for those few characters who find rF+ so early 14:36:08 speaking of self-damage though, what do people think of letting disc of storms be used with rElec? 14:36:11 elliptic: well, but we have so many parameters on that one 14:36:27 <|amethyst> make it partially ignore relec, too 14:36:36 (amount self damage, amount of damage to others, rF effect) 14:36:46 |amethyst: why? 14:37:12 could reduce the self-damage, yeah 14:37:14 |amethyst: rElec isn't an immunity, I don't see the point of artificially changing the percentage it helps against disc of storms 14:37:25 <|amethyst> elliptic: I guess that's true 14:37:28 or increase damage and keep self-damage the same or whatever, i dunno 14:37:40 <|amethyst> I was thinking "storm" incorporates airstrike-like effects 14:37:46 dpeg: seems strange to me to make it do different damage to self and others 14:37:48 <|amethyst> s/incorporates/might incorporate/ 14:37:48 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:38:18 |amethyst: well, I think the effects of disc of storms are fine... it's just that it kills the player :) 14:38:43 <|amethyst> I was forgetting that rElec wasn't immunity 14:39:22 elliptic: could increase damage with distance from user, for example. 14:39:29 elliptic: that proposed disc of storms change would probably mean people would actually use it. so it's fine with me 14:39:42 -!- Tolias has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:39:58 <|amethyst> what about an effective elemental level boost for the summoning items? 14:40:19 <|amethyst> or would that not help them be used? 14:40:25 what if scrolls of immolation cast mass inner flame? too annoying for melee characters? 14:40:47 evilmike: in addition to the explosion? 14:40:49 <|amethyst> mass inner flame instead of an explosion? 14:40:52 <|amethyst> because both would be... 14:41:01 instead of an explosion 14:41:03 I don't like effects that do nothing with no monsters in view 14:41:22 oh, didn't think of that 14:41:22 <|amethyst> make it sticky flame everything it burns? 14:41:28 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:36 <|amethyst> (player included) 14:41:38 evilmike: the current scroll has a nice visual effect. 14:41:46 |amethyst: we want players to use it, don't we? 14:41:47 sticky flame would lead to scroll-dropping (a problem with old immolation) 14:41:52 <|amethyst> hm 14:42:15 <|amethyst> could make it sticky flame the monsters but only damage the player, but that might be too good 14:42:22 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:42:29 sticky flame is insanely good early on, I would not give it that 14:43:14 also allowing rElec with disc of storms sounds fine to me 14:43:16 <|amethyst> los radius :) 14:43:31