00:00:45 <CIA-23> 03|amethyst * rf218ddaa655b 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/process_handler.py: WebTiles: correct row/columns ttyrec metadata.
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00:01:55 <Cheibriados> Several tags do not work with subvaults (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6067) by infiniplex
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00:02:24 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-11-g963d729 (33)
00:05:31 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-12-gf218dda (33)
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00:14:31 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-12-gf218dda
00:22:05 <CIA-23> 03|amethyst * r0f826e157f98 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc godprayer.cc): Don't grant Okawaru piety for vault-placed corpses.
00:22:16 <CIA-23> 03|amethyst * ra38f5126928b 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Correctly handle corpse HD for Okawaru sacrifice.
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00:30:05 <CIA-23> 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.11 * r5b1728a4c016 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc godprayer.cc): Don't grant Okawaru piety for vault-placed corpses.
00:30:06 <CIA-23> 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.11 * r432a13ea2a2c 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Correctly handle corpse HD for Okawaru sacrifice.
00:38:07 <|amethyst> !tell edlothiol ... and it doesn't appear to actually be transferring the saves even if I press Y :(
00:38:07 <Wenzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let edlothiol know.
00:38:29 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-14-g0f826e1 (33)
00:38:31 <|amethyst> !tell edlothiol I think this is the last major thing before cszo is ready for action
00:38:31 <Wenzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let edlothiol know.
00:43:20 <Sizzell> Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11-b1-10-g432a13e
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00:57:06 <Napkin> 3
01:00:22 <|amethyst> Napkin:  hi
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01:00:47 <|amethyst> Napkin:  thanks for the config files; I didn't use them directly but fixed a lot of things after reading them :)
01:00:58 <Napkin> moin moin
01:01:01 <Napkin> oops@3
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01:01:49 <bmh> -cast is a fairly shitty weapon brand
01:03:19 <bmh> swapping is so cheap it just contributes to tedium. If it always came with recurse, that would be another story
01:03:48 <|amethyst> just have it drain all your MP on wield :P
01:03:55 <bmh> |amethyst: or that :)
01:04:23 <|amethyst> of course, MP is used for things other than casting :(
01:04:38 <bmh> baby meet bathwater
01:04:53 <elliott> would make sword of the doom knight a bit weird
01:04:59 <bmh> I'm playing a hybrid summoner and found a -cast weapon that appears to be pretty good, so I just empty my mana pool and charge into battle
01:05:31 <elliptic> there's still some cost to it since casting is pretty tactical usually
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01:05:46 <elliptic> it takes a full turn to unwield the weapon and then rewield it
01:05:55 <elliptic> so I think the current status of it is fine
01:06:34 <|amethyst> hm.. maybe I should just force the savegame transfer in webtiles
01:07:22 <|amethyst> declining the transfer has its own issues, since it will use the latest game_data directory regardless
01:07:37 <bmh> elliptic: I find it tedious. It *really* matters on armour
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01:08:00 <elliptic> I'd say that -CAST is much less interesting on armour
01:08:14 <elliptic> since it makes it completely unusable for any character for which it does anything at all
01:08:38 <DracoOmega> Poor Maxwell's
01:08:53 <elliptic> it might be a bit tedious on weapons, yes, but it actually does something there
01:08:56 <bmh> DracoOmega: Maxwell's is great for winning ZotSprint
01:09:10 <elliott> fr: zotsprint
01:09:12 <DracoOmega> That's a fairly narrow form of usefulness
01:09:39 <elliptic> maxwell's is armour with -TELE, which is something completely different altogether :P
01:09:48 <elliptic> the -CAST on it is pretty irrelevant
01:11:00 <elliptic> the point is just that -CAST armour might as well not exist for casting chars, whereas for noncasting chars the -CAST on it might as well not exist
01:11:10 <DracoOmega> Yeah, I do agree
01:11:30 <bmh> I like |amethyst's MP drain idea
01:12:02 <DracoOmega> Why is that even necessary, though? It already has a reasonable downside
01:12:25 <DracoOmega> Losing all mp on wield would make them basically never useful for spellcasters. Items useful on a swap aren't such a bad thing
01:13:15 <elliptic> I'd be fine with removing -CAST altogether (or maybe leaving it on a couple unrands), but I don't understand why changing it to be even less usable on casty chars is a good idea
01:13:38 <DracoOmega> Yeah
01:13:56 <elliptic> you are right that swapping it is a bit tedious (though the ' key is your friend... not really any worse than swapping to a staff of wizardry, which many casters do anyway)
01:14:34 <elliptic> on rings it is rather more annoying I guess, I've occasionally run into that
01:16:35 <DracoOmega> On a different note, do you think it might actually be reasonable for Maxwell's to lose the -TELE?
01:16:58 <elliott> wouldn't that just make maxwell's more boring?
01:17:16 <DracoOmega> Well, right now it's mostly just bad, I think. Fun in theory, but kind of bad
01:17:34 <elliott> true, but it sounds kind of like "how about removing the noise from shield of the gong" to me :P
01:17:52 <elliptic> DracoOmega: it would be incredibly good without the -TELE with no other changes
01:17:52 <DracoOmega> Somehow that feels like a more interesting kind of bad, to me
01:18:10 <bmh> There's something satisfying about finding an orc slaying weapon before reaching the mines
01:18:24 <DracoOmega> What about maybe making it mess up teleport like the orb does? Delays and no tele control or something?
01:18:39 <DracoOmega> But not just a flat veto
01:18:47 <DracoOmega> I don't know. I have no strong opinions. Just thinking out loud.
01:20:09 <elliptic> I think maxwell's -TELE is fine... using it requires a lot of care, but it might be worth it if you find it early-ish, since +15 plate armour is rather strong
01:20:41 <DracoOmega> I suppose. I admit, I'd never really ended up finding on a character for which using it would be at all reasonable, so I don't have much personal experience to go on
01:21:07 <elliptic> having cool unrands that are usually rather bad is okay I think... see hat of pondering for another example
01:21:26 <DracoOmega> Like I said, no strong objections. Just musing.
01:21:47 <bmh> Hat of Pondering is amazing in the hands of a Naga of Chei :)
01:21:50 <due> stasis killed me earlier 'cos I forgot :D
01:22:04 <bmh> I almost wore it for my last orb run
01:22:55 <DracoOmega> Certainly Maxwell's is fairly low on my list of things I'd like to see get a buff of some sort :P
01:23:36 <due> make Maxwell's crystal plate :D
01:24:10 <|amethyst> !tell edlothiol Also, non-webtiles games show up as "dcss-web-trunk" in the webtiles games list
01:24:10 <Wenzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let edlothiol know.
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01:25:37 <bmh> god, old habit I can't shake from nethack -- I butcher trolls.
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01:40:07 <|amethyst> elliptic:  exactly what information does sequell need from me?
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01:46:31 <elliptic> |amethyst: sequell needs access to the logfile and milestone files (for the database) and also needs to know where the morgues and ttyrecs are (for !log and !ttyrec)
01:46:45 <elliptic> |amethyst: see https://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell/commit/6eded5b3624e7509da7c07877c856d966e88c7bc
01:47:19 <elliptic> though greensnark recently changed how the scripts handle different servers, I haven't looked at how that works now
01:49:07 <|amethyst> elliptic:  I don't see anything about ttyrecs in that commit
01:50:12 <|amethyst> elliptic:  oh, because csn doesn't have the disk space for ttyrecs; I see the entry now
01:50:16 <elliptic> |amethyst: that's because CSN doesn't have them, yeah
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01:57:03 <elliptic> I guess it is probably just a matter of updating def.logs, def.stones, and servers.yml now
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01:57:15 <elliptic> yay for greensnark improving the scripts
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02:08:43 <kilobyte> !tell Grunt crash-on-wax is needed for automated tests; dumping logs somewhere would be quite hard.  Let's think how to do it, as there are secret doors to eradicate...
02:08:44 <Wenzell> kilobyte: OK, I'll let Grunt know.
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03:06:37 <|amethyst> elliptic:  would you mind looking at https://github.com/neilmoore/dcss_henzell/commit/5024c0a to see if it looks reasonable.  There are two spots that have the server-to-hostname mapping; I'm using the hostname for the logfiles etc (dobrazupa.org) in both cases; should one be "crawl.s-z.org" instead?
03:13:28 <|amethyst> I'm out for the time being... hopefully I can get the webtiles save transfer issues worked out tomorrow
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03:35:13 <Cheibriados> Auto-explore left small blank map and then was booted (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6068) by codrus
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03:55:31 <Cheibriados> Visible Monsters/Items/Features not updated after Animate Dead (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6069) by codrus
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04:11:25 <SevenDeadlySins> Anyone around?
04:12:59 <elliptic> |amethyst: looks probably good to me
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04:41:03 <kilobyte> |amethyst: I don't think special-casing vault-placed corpses to not grant piety is a good thing: it is spoily that you should eat them and sac something else instead.  Perhaps pre-chunking would be better?
04:41:40 <alefury> but often corpses are more flavorful
04:42:49 <alefury> pre-chunking only the really ood ones or replacing them with less ood corpses would work i guess
04:44:15 <alefury> or maybe corpses with reduced HD could be used for the badly ood stuff
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04:54:30 <kilobyte> are there many vaults like this?
04:54:32 <evilmike> there are corpses and chunks in that vault. removing the corpses would be a solution, but it would lose flavour
04:54:55 <kilobyte> there's quite a few skeletons, I can't think of any corpses really
04:55:00 <evilmike> what i'd do is make it so the corpses are placed if the vault is deep. otherwise only place chunks
04:55:11 <evilmike> or place chunks and skeletons, that would work too
04:55:46 <evilmike> afaik the one vault where this is a big problem is the minotaur beef jerky vault I made
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04:58:05 <kilobyte> nicolae_underground_beach has a human corpse on D:7-, not a big issue but could be a skeleton just as well
04:59:03 <kilobyte> spriggan name:baked n_adj n_spe n_des corpse
04:59:13 <evilmike> that vault also has a spriggan though
04:59:28 <evilmike> the problem with the minotaur vault is that mintotaurs are waaaaay ood for where that vault shows up
04:59:36 <evilmike> those free corpses mean you can max your okawaru piety
05:00:03 <Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-2-g661b871
05:00:36 <elliptic> can't that vault just not show up so early
05:00:53 <elliptic> D:2 is waay before monster minotaurs
05:01:04 <elliptic> and I don't see a reason to give out free food then anyway...
05:01:14 <evilmike> yeah. but even if its moved to like d:9, the minotaurs would be worth a lot for okawaru
05:01:38 <evilmike> so moving it deeper is fine, but they should still be minotaur skeletons I think
05:02:34 <elliptic> would it really be enough to worry about? we don't worry about lugonu characters getting that vault with 15089 rats and maxing piety on D:4...
05:07:15 <evilmike> I guess it's no big deal yeah
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05:14:31 <CIA-23> 03evilmike * r748f27823f32 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_features.des: Move evilmike_butchery deeper in the dungeon.
05:14:41 <CIA-23> 03evilmike 07stone_soup-0.11 * r32497d76eaf9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_features.des: Move evilmike_butchery deeper in the dungeon.
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05:21:48 <due> Who's doing the current survey? it's fucking aewesome
05:22:32 <due> Wow, tiles is 67%?
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05:31:14 <kilobyte> !lg * win tiles cv=0.11-a
05:31:14 <Sequell> 7. pubby the Merry Centaur (L27 CeHu), worshipper of the Shining One, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-08-03, with 10366482 points after 161167 turns and 8:31:32.
05:31:17 <kilobyte> !lg * win cv=0.11-a
05:31:18 <Sequell> 894. partyhat the Slayer (L27 MuCK), worshipper of Xom, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2012-08-13, with 1354791 points after 132610 turns and 15:14:33.
05:31:20 <Pacra> <CIA-23> evilmike * r748f27823f32 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_features.des: Move evilmike_butchery deeper in the dungeon.
05:31:22 <Pacra> nooooooo
05:31:26 <syraine> Doom
05:31:27 <Pacra> i wanted to get 3 gifts on d:2
05:32:28 <evilmike> Pacra: |amethyst already fixed that part anyway. that talk about changing it to having skeletons is if that commit is reverted
05:33:06 <Pacra> yepp I saw
05:33:18 <kilobyte> the only other vault that seems problematic has snapping turtle corpses on D:4
05:33:41 <kilobyte> actually, skeletons are bad too: Animate Dead would annihilate the whole level
05:33:52 <kilobyte> or Animate Skeleton for that matter
05:33:54 <edlothiol> |amethyst: yeah, sadly the script is kind of hard to test for me. Are there any javascript errors?
05:34:22 <Napkin_> rax? did the host key of crawl.akrasiac.org change?
05:34:34 <edlothiol> |amethyst: also, are you running the newest server version? I think I managed to create a ghost game in a way I just fixed
05:36:57 <edlothiol> Napkin_: isn't CAO down for the move?
05:37:23 -!- Napkin_ is now known as Napkin
05:37:53 <Napkin> i don't know anything
05:38:21 <edlothiol> check the CAO frontpage
05:38:45 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-15-g748f278 (33)
05:39:01 <MarvinPA> i was about to say, could someone make a news or devblog post about it maybe?
05:40:04 <kilobyte> Napkin: what about switching CDO trunk to the pre-release branch?
05:40:12 <MarvinPA> also, the unix key link on http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto is hosted on cao, could that be changed to a cdo mirror of it maybe?
05:41:20 <MarvinPA> oh that page still has rhf, even
05:42:22 <syraine> 0.12, woo
05:42:33 <Keskitalo> \o/
05:42:39 <Napkin> your email address, MarvinPA?
05:42:39 <syraine> Oh, I am here for a reason
05:43:00 <syraine> The SH value is put alongside the other two values but isn't as good as they are point for point.
05:43:27 <syraine> Can't SH bonuses be halved and the effect doubled?
05:43:36 <Sizzell> Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11-b1-11-g32497d7
05:43:37 <syraine> I mean, 50 SH is around as good as 25 AC.
05:44:29 <syraine> I think this is a legacy from a while ago, correct me if I am wrong in this.
05:44:57 <syraine> The idea that SH has this large number but isn't especially effective. I think before it had a lower number but was way better.
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05:46:15 <MarvinPA> in like 0.6 or something the numbers were lower but that's all that was changed iirc
05:46:34 <SevenDeadlySins> so i was just thinking
05:46:54 <syraine> Yeah, that was it.
05:46:57 <SevenDeadlySins> is there any specific reason that regular trolls are the only trolls that produce hides and can be turned into armor
05:47:09 <syraine> ...That's not true?
05:47:28 <SevenDeadlySins> there's no rock/deep/iron troll hide and armor
05:47:39 <syraine> Yes.
05:48:14 <SevenDeadlySins> always seemed odd to me, and i think that it would actually be interesting to have heavier troll armors than just regular old troll leather
05:48:31 <syraine> There's no reason for that whatsoever, no. There's a general resistance to crafting because there's argument over whether it's great or horrid.
05:49:18 <syraine> In addition, there is resistance to adding armour types.
05:49:31 <SevenDeadlySins> for what reason
05:49:35 <syraine> ??splint mail
05:49:36 <Wenzell> splint mail[1/1]: +8 ac -5 ev.
05:49:37 <syraine> ??ring mail
05:49:37 <Wenzell> ring mail[1/1]: +5 ac -2 ev.
05:49:44 <SevenDeadlySins> well yeah
05:49:56 <syraine> That's basically it.
05:50:06 <SevenDeadlySins> but that's only because they provide no real benefit
05:50:14 <SevenDeadlySins> and are outclassed hard by dragon armor in the mid-lategame
05:50:23 <SevenDeadlySins> and outclassed by just using plate early on
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05:50:50 <syraine> What benefit does a heavy armour that speeds hunger and gives you 1 HP every 5 turns give over the same heavy armour without that?
05:50:55 <SevenDeadlySins> basic armor stepping has the problem that basic armor doesn't really step in terms of accessibility
05:51:04 <syraine> Mainly because of AEVP, yes.
05:51:17 <syraine> Even Ring Mail cripples you.
05:51:34 <monqy> if troll leather is underpowered it could always be buffed
05:51:42 <SevenDeadlySins> it's not that troll leather is underpowered
05:51:46 <SevenDeadlySins> it's good for where it is right now
05:51:50 <syraine> Er.
05:51:55 <SevenDeadlySins> an earlygame armor with low evp that gives regeneration
05:52:21 <syraine> To summarize my points, medium armour is not especially useful.
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05:52:33 <SevenDeadlySins> i personally disagree
05:52:41 <syraine> Mundane medium armour.
05:52:45 <Pacra> armorcasting 4eva
05:52:45 <SevenDeadlySins> well yeah
05:52:46 <syraine> That isn't an artefact.
05:52:58 <SevenDeadlySins> but this wouldn't be necessarily mundane
05:53:02 <syraine> Without mitigatory Armour skill.
05:53:07 <syraine> Okay.
05:53:09 <syraine> Second point.
05:53:18 <syraine> Lots of medium armours with two extrinsics are very similar to having lots of medium armours.
05:53:24 <syraine> You are creating mundane armours with two extrinsics.
05:53:38 <SevenDeadlySins> i'm... not exactly sure where you're going with that
05:54:51 <SevenDeadlySins> as it stands dragon armor is effective because each one grants its own specific benefit in addition to the general "being armor" thing
05:54:52 <syraine> Um, well, you see, if you make a 'deep troll leather armour' and your idea is to make it a mundane armour with two special powers already on an item...
05:55:07 <syraine> -trail off-
05:55:34 <syraine> If you have an idea of making craftable armours that each have their own unique properties, you have to justify adding so many new armours to the ecosystem.
05:55:52 <syraine> What does it serve to have these? What niche do they fulfil?
05:56:28 <SevenDeadlySins> body slot regeneration for the mid-lategame for characters that don't need/want the resistances provided by dragon armor
05:56:49 <SevenDeadlySins> troll leather armor is only good for light characters and terrible outside of early game
05:57:07 <syraine> So you're providing HP gain?
05:57:43 <SevenDeadlySins> plus the fact that it just generally doesn't make sense that only one type of troll creates enchantable hide
05:58:10 <SevenDeadlySins> consistency has at least some value
05:58:13 <syraine> I see.
05:58:24 <syraine> That's an interesting argument you have presented.
05:58:37 <SevenDeadlySins> i know i've had characters where they end up getting all their resists on good gloves / rings / what have you
05:58:42 <SevenDeadlySins> and i'd love to be able to chop up an iron troll
05:58:56 <syraine> Do you propose, under the logic you have raised, that other creatures possessing tough hides should also be able to be stripped of these?
05:58:58 <kilobyte> you can, it gives troll hides
05:59:14 <syraine> Yep, I think I said this.
05:59:19 <MarvinPA> troll leather certainly isn't terrible outside of the early game, also
05:59:33 <syraine> I think a stone giant has a tough hide.
05:59:35 <SevenDeadlySins> it's not necessarily bad
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06:00:18 <kilobyte> it's a +2 robe {+4 AC, some GDR, -1EV, Regen}
06:00:27 <MarvinPA> 8/-1 compared to a 4/0 robe if you fully enchant both
06:00:30 <SevenDeadlySins> that it is
06:00:34 <syraine> +2 artefact robe
06:00:43 <syraine> If you enchant it a bit
06:00:48 <syraine> It can be enchanted to +4, so
06:01:01 <syraine> +6*
06:01:11 <syraine> Hmm.
06:01:14 <syraine> So it's not terrible.
06:01:17 <SevenDeadlySins> that's all well and good until you start finding steam / swamp / mottled dragon armor
06:01:23 <SevenDeadlySins> it's not terrible but it certainly hits a wall
06:01:30 <SevenDeadlySins> and it's only available for light armor characters
06:01:40 <SevenDeadlySins> or rather only useful for said characters
06:01:42 <syraine> Anyway.
06:01:49 <syraine> I notice you did not answer my question.
06:01:54 <syraine> Would you say a stone giant has a tough hide?
06:02:08 <SevenDeadlySins> i would say that a stone giant isn't a troll
06:02:12 <kilobyte> mottled is quite pointless: no resistance or another useful property.  Regen is a great thing to have.
06:02:22 <syraine> Yes, and?
06:02:22 <SevenDeadlySins> and the only reason this comes up is because trolls give troll hide
06:02:37 <SevenDeadlySins> but "advanced" trolls don't give a different hide
06:02:48 <SevenDeadlySins> which seems counter-intuitive
06:02:48 <syraine> Well, you raised a fascinating point that it is inconsistent for just one troll to give you a hide, not all trolls.
06:03:10 <kilobyte> an orc warlord still drops orc corpses, what's the problem there?
06:03:25 <syraine> Since all trolls do give you hides (the same sort), your position must be that it is inconsistent for monsters in general.
06:03:40 <SevenDeadlySins> no, no it isn't
06:03:52 <syraine> Then your question is resolved.
06:04:00 <syraine> All trolls give hides. Perfect consistency.
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06:04:18 <MarvinPA> uh
06:04:19 <MarvinPA> what
06:04:47 <syraine> Well, it was put forward above that if you butcher a troll corpse of any sort, it will give you a hide.
06:05:11 <SevenDeadlySins> i don't actually think that's the case, nor would i expect all of them to give the same hide
06:05:34 <syraine> <kilobyte>	you can, it gives troll hides
06:05:43 <syraine> I think this was in reference to iron trolls.
06:06:06 <MarvinPA> this is not the case
06:06:07 <SevenDeadlySins> especially since in their descriptions their hides are referred to
06:06:09 <SevenDeadlySins> yeah
06:06:18 <SevenDeadlySins> you can't actually get troll hides from anything other than regular trolls
06:06:20 <syraine> Well, it lay unquestioned for I think a page or so.
06:06:45 <MarvinPA> rock and iron trolls are separate species to normal trolls, and drop rock and iron troll corpses respectively
06:06:52 <MarvinPA> neither of which can be turned into hides
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06:07:30 <SevenDeadlySins> same with deep trolls
06:07:44 <MarvinPA> (i am fine with this but it's probably helpful to actually know how things work currently before arguing about it for ages)
06:07:54 <syraine> -shrug- It is only that I will follow the discussion.
06:07:55 <kilobyte> oh hrm, they indeed have a different species set
06:08:00 <SevenDeadlySins> anyway
06:08:17 <syraine> It was put forward that this was functionality, so I included the idea.
06:08:27 <syraine> If it's wrong, maybe that's an issue there.
06:08:45 <SevenDeadlySins> i still think that body slot regeneration is at least an interesting enough bonus that it shouldn't be limited to a single light armor
06:10:02 <SevenDeadlySins> making deep/rock/iron troll armor give 8/-3, 10/-5, and 12/-7 with body slot regen would put it on par with dragon armor, providing regeneration instead of resistances
06:10:08 <SevenDeadlySins> for characters that are interested in such a thing
06:11:08 <syraine> 0.3 HP/turn is not as good as rElec
06:11:15 <syraine> Nor is it as good as rF++, rC-.
06:11:17 <SevenDeadlySins> you could use these for tiles: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6234/newtrollarmors.png (just a quick recolor of existing troll hide/armor with the deep/rock/iron troll color schemes
06:11:24 <SevenDeadlySins> no, but not every character needs rElec
06:11:26 <SevenDeadlySins> or rF++
06:11:29 <SevenDeadlySins> or wants rC-
06:11:43 <syraine> I doubt many characters want rC-, no.
06:12:27 <SevenDeadlySins> the point is that resists are only so good, and having an alternative to resists for characters that aren't so much in need makes sense
06:12:37 <syraine> It's just that your alternative is 0.3 HP/turn.
06:12:43 <SevenDeadlySins> especially if you've already got an existing troll leather armor, as well as various "tougher" troll variants
06:13:03 <SevenDeadlySins> i'm not saying turn every monster into a hide factory or implement some kind of complicated crafting system
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06:13:24 <syraine> I see.
06:13:28 <syraine> You seem to feel strongly about this.
06:13:34 <syraine> Why not write a proposal on the development wiki?
06:13:56 <syraine> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:start
06:14:03 <SevenDeadlySins> yes, i'm well aware of the dev wiki
06:14:08 <syraine> I see.
06:14:11 <syraine> Have you written a proposal?
06:14:19 <SevenDeadlySins> but i'd rather come here and have discussion beforehand
06:14:25 <SevenDeadlySins> it makes sense to me
06:14:36 <syraine> You have come here.
06:14:47 <SevenDeadlySins> i like real-time discussion more than leaving something somewhere and waiting for feedback
06:15:12 <syraine> Some successful ideas do both.
06:21:17 <SevenDeadlySins> i'm also a little worried that things on the wiki either don't get looked at or stagnate, though i'm not sure how founded that fear is
06:22:22 <syraine> Silly.
06:22:40 <Eronarn> that is absolutely true
06:22:43 <Eronarn> we have tons of dead pages on the wiki
06:25:22 <SevenDeadlySins> yup
06:25:48 <SevenDeadlySins> i have looked through the wiki and seen a lot of things that either never get touched or never get implemented without an actual note
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06:29:45 <syraine> They got read.
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06:49:37 <edlothiol> |amethyst: also, could I get access to your webtiles server logs?
06:51:38 <MarvinPA> hm, http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/player-status seems to have stopped working
06:52:14 <MarvinPA> was it Wensley who was running the thingy on that page?
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06:56:26 <MarvinPA> also i made a news post about cao downtime, i can't update the unix key on http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto though
06:56:39 <MarvinPA> also even if i could i would have no idea what to update it to :P
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06:59:36 <edlothiol> the player status is broken because cao is down, Wensley will need to fix that
07:00:28 <MarvinPA> !tell Wensley <+MarvinPA> hm, http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/player-status seems to have stopped working <+edlothiol> the player status is broken because cao is down, Wensley will need to fix that
07:00:28 <Wenzell> MarvinPA: OK, I'll let Wensley know.
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07:13:19 <Wensley> MarvinPA / edlothiol: I see
07:13:51 <Wensley> it should be as simple as removing the "CAO/DGL" entry from the URLs object in playerstatus.js
07:14:08 <Wensley> not sure who has access to cdo
07:14:15 <Wensley> Napkin: ping
07:15:02 <Napkin> pong
07:15:47 <Wensley> Napkin: hello! :) cao going down seems to have broken the playerstatus page, there's an easy fix though if you have a moment
07:16:26 <Wensley> Napkin: in playerstatus.js, line 3, there's a URLS object
07:16:47 <Wensley> or rather it's a URLS array, but whatever, it's javascript, it's all the same
07:17:01 <Wensley> if you just remove the last of the three entries in this array, it will work
07:17:43 <Wensley> |amethyst: what's the status of s-z?
07:18:32 <Keskitalo> galehar: Looking forward to playing summoners in 0.12! :)
07:22:02 <Wensley> Napkin: or if you prefer I can push the change to the git repo and you can pull it from there
07:23:57 <Napkin> yes please, Wensley
07:24:05 <Napkin> incredibly busy recently
07:24:12 <Wensley> no prob, I think we all are :)
07:26:33 <Wensley> can use this as an opportunity to clean up the code a bit
07:29:52 <edlothiol> Wensley: if the URL list is on the client side, what's the PHP script even for?
07:30:02 <Wensley> edlothiol: cross-domain request
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07:32:14 <Wensley> edlothiol: back when I first made this page I didn't know any other way to get around the same origin policy other than calling out to a php script, I hear that jsonp can do that but I'm not really sure how
07:33:00 <Wensley> I think there's also some other newfangled way
07:33:07 <edlothiol> I think jquery can handle that?
07:34:27 <Wensley> I guess the newfangled way is CORS, but that requires setting http headers like ew
07:34:44 <due> jquery <3
07:36:54 <edlothiol> ok, it would still require a change to the server side
07:37:08 <Wensley> jsonp would?
07:37:12 <edlothiol> yes
07:37:59 <edlothiol> cors would of course also
07:38:57 <Wensley> I really don't understand how jsonp gets around the same origin policy
07:39:23 <edlothiol> it doesn't use XHR, but a <script> tag
07:39:39 <edlothiol> which is exempted from the same origin policy
07:39:47 <Wensley> oh, now I get it
07:40:08 <Wensley> ...sort of
07:40:53 <due> cors would of cors!
07:42:01 <edlothiol> Wensley: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSONP explains it pretty clearly
07:43:15 <edlothiol> Wensley: doesn't really help in this case, though
07:46:17 <Wensley> edlothiol: I don't see how jsonp requires changes on the server side
07:47:14 <edlothiol> the server needs to wrap the padding (i.e. function call) around the json
07:47:39 <Wensley> also I suppose the servers would need to actually return json rather than csv
07:47:43 <Wensley> although++
07:48:25 <edlothiol> well, parsing the csv in javascript wouldn't be too hard
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08:04:51 <Wensley> so this is bizarre, the playerstatus page works without any modifications on my server: http://seleniac.org/crawl/dcss-playerstatus/
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08:05:16 <Wensley> which is to say, rather than throwing an error it just gets one weird row and everything else works
08:09:34 <edlothiol> I'd guess there are some different PHP settings on CDO that make it print the error message in the output?
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08:10:25 <Wensley> I suppose so
08:11:25 <edlothiol> Wensley: not sure why you don't parse every response by itself, but if you did, you could just catch the syntax error and silently leave that response out
08:12:05 <Wensley> all design decisions can only be explained by "this was the thing that I wrote to teach myself javascript"
08:13:33 <Wensley> good idea though, I've been needing an excuse to ever actually use try/catch in javascript
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08:17:39 <Wensley> though it still wouldn't help in the instance of what my server is doing, since "" is still valid json. I'd have to detect the error in php and explicitly return something to make the parsing fail
08:17:43 <Wensley> which is to say, ick
08:17:58 <Wensley> or rather my server is currently returning [""], which is valid json
08:18:56 <Wensley> I suppose actually I should be doing something like that anyway, to account for the case where a server has no players
08:25:37 <Wensley> $data = str_replace("#dcss-", "#dcss-", $data);
08:25:47 <Wensley> what is this i dont even
08:26:39 <Wensley> how can I use git to see what this line used to be
08:29:28 <Wensley> I want to presume it's currently a no-op but I'm too afraid of php to be certain
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08:44:33 <edlothiol> git blame
08:46:11 <edlothiol> that'll tell you in what commit it got changed, then you can use git show rev:path or git diff to see what it used to be
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10:04:30 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  nothing useful in the logs (which I only just enabled :( )  getting some javascript errors, looking into it
10:05:14 <edlothiol> |amethyst: what javascript errors?
10:06:07 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  Error in message: ^[[2J^[[Hi, you have a 0.12-a0-14-g0f826e1 save game:
10:06:20 <|amethyst> which gives me an idea what to look into
10:06:22 <edlothiol> oh, that looks like it didn't detect webtiles mode right
10:06:49 <edlothiol> or I missed some echo statements
10:07:33 <|amethyst> no, that echo is right
10:09:13 <edlothiol> I probably did the -await-connection option detection wrong, for example I don't know what the \\b does, just copied it...
10:09:37 <edlothiol> oh, or is that just a word boundary?
10:10:37 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  yes... I tried changing it to \b (which is what bash 3.2 and up require) but still no luck
10:11:28 <|amethyst> that explains why the charset detection wasn't working, though
10:13:05 <edlothiol> how about just removing it? it's not like it's likely (or at all possible) to occur within another word
10:13:12 <edlothiol> and without the \b, it seems to work
10:13:47 <|amethyst> ohhh right
10:13:57 <|amethyst> the quoting rules are still funny
10:14:00 <|amethyst> for =~
10:14:14 <edlothiol> although you don't need charset detection anyway, do you?
10:14:23 <|amethyst> no, I forced that to UTF-8
10:15:44 <|amethyst> okay, closer
10:16:53 <|amethyst> all right, now it's client.js:48 Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token ILLEGAL
10:17:17 <edlothiol> can you get the contents of msgtext?
10:17:51 <|amethyst> hm... how to do that?
10:18:03 <edlothiol> are you using chrome?
10:18:04 <|amethyst> just typing msgtext into the js console gives me a ReferenceError
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10:18:16 <edlothiol> are you still in the debugger at the error?
10:19:12 <|amethyst> trying now
10:20:49 <|amethyst> {"msg": "login_cookie", "expires": 7, "cookie": "neil 146667208868528646094272960792536691119"}
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10:21:34 <edlothiol> that doesn't look like it has a syntax error, sure it's the right one?
10:21:55 <edlothiol> try executing the following in the javascript console
10:22:13 <edlothiol> require(["client"], function (c) { c.log_messages = true; })
10:22:29 <edlothiol> afterwards, it should log all messages on the console
10:23:22 <|amethyst> oh, it was the previous one
10:23:39 <|amethyst> which is missing a curly brace indeed
10:23:53 <|amethyst> Message: {"msg":"show_dialog", "html":"
10:23:55 <Grunt> You'd better brace yourself, then.
10:23:57 <Grunt> <______________<
10:24:51 <edlothiol> huh
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10:25:20 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  as though the -n weren't working... hm
10:25:25 <edlothiol> yes
10:25:42 <edlothiol> ... can you call the crawl launcher script by hand on the console? would make it easier to see what it's writing
10:26:07 <|amethyst> it's writing exactly that then hanging
10:27:01 <|amethyst> presumably at the read()
10:27:11 <|amethyst> err, s/()//
10:27:54 <|amethyst> after I say Y or N it goes on to the next message without finishing that one
10:29:28 <|amethyst> no idea why...
10:29:40 <|amethyst> both branches of the if clearly have a wecho in them
10:29:51 <Wensley> |amethyst: are the web-facing status bits of your server operational yet? for reference, I mean the analogs of http://crawl.develz.org/cgi-bin/dgl-status/index.html and http://crawl.develz.org/cgi-bin/web-status/index.html
10:29:51 <Wenzell> Wensley: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
10:30:17 <edlothiol> did I maybe something wrong with the big wecho? maybe try replacing it with something like wecho '"}' and see what gets output
10:30:33 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  OOHHH
10:30:49 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  of course  wecho <<EOF  doesn't work---wecho doesn't read stdin
10:31:00 <edlothiol> aah ouch
10:32:03 <Wensley> |amethyst: even if those pages do not exist yet, if you know what URLs they will eventually exist at then I can add them to the playerstatus page now and they will show up once they are working
10:32:17 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  okay, different errors :)
10:32:28 <edlothiol> |amethyst: how did you fix it?
10:32:43 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  wrote a "wcat" function, changed wecho << to wcat <<
10:33:00 <edlothiol> ah
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10:33:41 <|amethyst> now the problem is that that embedded newline is treated as the end of message
10:33:51 <|amethyst> but none of those use a <pre> so newline can be converted to space
10:33:52 <edlothiol> by the way, the file Wensley mentions is the dgl_status_file in the webtiles config
10:34:20 <edlothiol> oh, yeah, that was also stupid of me
10:34:40 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  ah... what's it used for (the status file)?
10:34:51 <Wensley> |amethyst: http://seleniac.org/crawl/dcss-playerstatus/
10:35:08 <|amethyst> oh
10:35:10 <|amethyst> err
10:35:19 <|amethyst> that's only webtiles games, right?
10:35:19 <Wensley> the actual page hosted on develz isn't working right now because I had to handle errors from cao
10:35:24 <edlothiol> no, that's all
10:35:31 <Wensley> |amethyst: it's both dgl and webtiles, from all crawl servers
10:35:34 <edlothiol> see the server column
10:35:45 <edlothiol> Wensley: well, not CSN... I should make that available
10:35:55 <|amethyst> where is the non-webtiles version generated?
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10:36:04 <Wensley> edlothiol: csn?
10:36:13 <edlothiol> Wensley: crawl.somatika.net
10:36:19 <edlothiol> err, crawlus.somatika.net
10:36:41 <edlothiol> |amethyst: I can try to find it on CDO
10:36:47 <Wensley> and yes, now that nonexistent pages do not crash the script I can add in all the soon-to-be servers as well
10:37:19 <Wensley> edlothiol: just give me the url of the status pages
10:37:22 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  okay, it no longer gives a JS error there... but it's still a black screen
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10:37:43 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  oh duh
10:37:53 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  converted the newline at the end too :P
10:38:05 <edlothiol> Wensley: they aren't yet available, but I guess crawlus.somatika.net/status
10:38:29 <edlothiol> or Wensley, do you know how DGL generates the status file?
10:39:06 <Wensley> no, but I might learn so that I can make an alternate page that spits it out in json
10:39:12 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  okay, I think it works
10:39:16 <Wensley> because this php regex-and-string-replace script is hairy
10:39:49 <Wensley> and highly fragile
10:40:44 <Wensley> all I really ask is that people not try to be clever in naming their game/version identifiers
10:41:25 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  yay!  thanks!
10:41:28 <edlothiol> |amethyst: concerning the crawl-web-trunk, I'd recommend just renaming it to crawl-trunk in the config file
10:42:14 <edlothiol> ok, I have no idea how the DGL status file works, you'll have to ask Napkin
10:42:30 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  the problem was it was "trunk" even for 0.11 games
10:42:40 <edlothiol> oh, hm
10:42:47 <edlothiol> that's weird
10:42:57 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  how does it figure out what to display for discovered games it didn't create?
10:43:01 <edlothiol> are you using the same socket dir for trunk and 0.11? you probably shouldn't
10:43:09 <edlothiol> (that's how it chooses)
10:43:11 <|amethyst> oh
10:43:20 <|amethyst> yes, I am
10:43:41 <edlothiol> it could lead to problems anyway when someone tries to start games in both versions simultaneously
10:44:44 <edlothiol> |amethyst: btw, if you want to live even more on the edge, you could use the deflate-frame-2.3 branch from my tornado repository, to get nice compression for chrome clients
10:44:46 <|amethyst> CDO looks like it's using the same directory for everything
10:45:10 <edlothiol> https://github.com/flodiebold/tornado/tree/deflate-frame-2.3
10:45:17 <Wensley> edlothiol: btw, agralian on webtiles has been idle for 706346 seconds
10:45:47 <edlothiol> Wensley: yes, I know of the problem
10:45:54 <edlothiol> |amethyst: indeed it does
10:46:59 <edlothiol> there's no other good way to determine the version though
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10:47:28 <|amethyst> hm
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10:48:28 <|amethyst> I use something like "dgltrunk", "dgl11spr" as the token in the socket file
10:49:04 <|amethyst> it's not a huge deal for me right now
10:49:13 <|amethyst> certainly not worth holding back an announcement
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10:50:34 <edlothiol> could use that
10:50:44 <edlothiol> how about making it the actual id like in the webtiles config?
10:51:51 <|amethyst> you mean like "dcss-web-trunk" instead
10:51:52 <|amethyst> ?
10:52:35 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  re the dgl-status thing, do you have access to that CGI?
10:53:05 <edlothiol> no
10:53:14 <edlothiol> I don't think so, at least
10:53:27 <edlothiol> yes, "dcss-web-trunk"
10:53:47 <edlothiol> (although renaming it would probably be good if it's not just webtiles games)
10:54:20 <|amethyst> I was hoping to show whether the game is started from webtiles
10:54:38 <|amethyst> since that affects chatting
10:56:53 <edlothiol> it would probably be best to add that as a new column
10:57:23 <edlothiol> testing the change...
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10:58:49 <edlothiol> regarding chatting, the problem is that webtiles users chat much more, and it's much less annoying in the webtiles interface
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11:03:27 <|amethyst> Wensley:  webtiles status at http://dobrazupa.org/meta/web-status   dgl status will be somewhere once I figure it out
11:03:52 <Wensley> |amethyst: awesome, is this cso?
11:04:27 <|amethyst> cszo, yes
11:04:42 <CIA-23> 03edlothiol * rfcc9e36297ef 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/process_handler.py: Webtiles: For games started from DGL, use the token in the socket filename to determine the version.
11:04:47 <|amethyst> elliott has taken to abbreviating it c�o if you prefer three letters
11:04:54 <Wensley> hahaha
11:05:00 <Wensley> I might
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11:05:37 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  building
11:06:48 <Wensley> |amethyst: I see your game/version id looks like "dcss-web-0.11", does trunk look like "dcss-web-git"?
11:07:00 <|amethyst> Wensley:  no, but I'm fixing those in a moment
11:07:17 <Wensley> just as long as that's the aim, then
11:07:20 <|amethyst> they'll be just dcss-git dcss-0.10 dcss-0.11
11:07:36 <Wensley> oh, so the -web part is going away?
11:07:59 <|amethyst> yes, since it will be used for both web and dgl games
11:08:03 <Wensley> I ask because every server has their own idiosyncratic naming conventions and I have to normalize them via terrible string replacements
11:08:35 <|amethyst> Wensley:  what do you want sprint and zotdef to be?
11:08:42 <Wensley> |amethyst: I use "spr-0.11" and "zd-0.11"
11:08:54 <|amethyst> okiedokie
11:09:00 <Wensley> and thank you so, so much for sticking with what I already do :D
11:09:29 <Wensley> |amethyst: also "tut-0.11" for the tutorial
11:10:25 <Wensley> it's exciting to have so many servers!
11:10:35 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-16-gfcc9e36 (33)
11:12:59 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  hm... still not quite right, let me see what I'm doing wrong
11:14:26 <edlothiol> by the way, does watching webtiles from DGL work? I had never actually tested that
11:14:34 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  it does
11:14:37 <edlothiol> cool
11:16:01 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  oh, never mind, it does work
11:17:46 <edlothiol> ok... one last thing, if you want to customize the banner, you can do so (templates/banner.html, you might need to touch client.html afterwards so the server notices the changes)
11:19:24 <|amethyst> I don't have anything to customise it with right now, but I'll think about it
11:19:33 <|amethyst> also no front page at dobrazupa.org
11:19:53 <edlothiol> hrm, I've again managed to create a ghost game
11:20:08 <|amethyst> hm
11:20:11 <edlothiol> can I see the log? :)
11:20:39 <|amethyst> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: u'/dgldir/ttyrec/edlothiol/2012-08-13.16:18:15.ttyrec'
11:20:42 <|amethyst> sec
11:21:31 <|amethyst> http://dobrazupa.org/meta/tmp.log
11:21:35 <edlothiol> did the ttyrec dir not get created?
11:21:54 <edlothiol> (the server doesn't do that automatically)
11:22:03 <|amethyst> oh
11:23:04 <edlothiol> there's probably a script for that in dgamelaunch-config? since it seems to work for DGL
11:23:34 <|amethyst> Yeah, but unlike cdo I can't just use dgamelaunch -i (since my webtiles is inside the chroot)
11:23:44 <|amethyst> I added it to the webtiles init script
11:24:02 <|amethyst> so how do I get rid of these ghost games?
11:24:12 <|amethyst> I know
11:24:24 <edlothiol> yes, that way ;)
11:24:28 <|amethyst> try now
11:24:56 <edlothiol> I should maybe catch that error so it doesn't create ghost games... although it's a configuration problem
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11:27:13 <|amethyst> rax:  I'm ready to announce CSZO whenever you're ready to update the /topic and/or put a link on the CAO placeholder page
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11:27:53 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  are you done with the log?
11:28:23 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  seems like the kind of thing I might not want to expose over the web :)
11:28:40 <edlothiol> yes
11:29:28 <|amethyst> Wensley:  that should be all in the right format now, but is still missing dgamelaunch games
11:29:48 <|amethyst> I'm guessing that CGI script on CDO generates it from the .dglwhere files or something
11:30:51 <edlothiol> |amethyst: oh, it looks like I can see the CGI script
11:31:33 <edlothiol> it's a shell script echoing "Content-type: text/html", then a blank line, then calling another shell script
11:31:58 <edlothiol> and that one does umask 0022 and exec (...)/dgamelaunch -s
11:32:16 <Wensley> |amethyst: on cdo at least, dgl games have a completely separate status page
11:32:22 <|amethyst> ohh
11:32:27 <|amethyst> well, that's easy enough to do
11:32:38 <Wensley> easier for me as well :)
11:32:53 <Wensley> my page offers links for webtiles games, so it's good to be able to tell the difference
11:33:23 <edlothiol> Wensley: well, you can offer links to console games for c�o as well...
11:34:06 <Wensley> that would be cool
11:34:51 <Wensley> let me know when all that's working so that I can test out the urls
11:35:04 <edlothiol> http://crawl.s-z.org/#watch-SGrunt
11:35:08 <edlothiol> it's working right now
11:35:15 <|amethyst> Wensley:   http://dobrazupa.org/cgi-bin/dgl-status
11:35:16 <Wensley> coolcool
11:35:19 <Wensley> sweet
11:35:50 <|amethyst> web-status is still in /meta/
11:35:55 <edlothiol> (I'm assuming Grunt is playing console, it's hard to tell the difference right now)
11:35:56 <Wensley> I'll be able to try these out just as soon as I finish recompiling vim... turns out that it doesn't like the � character without multi-byte character support :P
11:36:00 <Grunt> edlothiol: I am :)
11:36:09 <edlothiol> hehe
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11:36:21 <MarvinPA> |amethyst: should i link to cszo in the cdo newspost then, if it's ready? i made a quick post this morning just to mention that cao is down
11:36:48 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  yeah... it's still not handled by sequell, but I'm getting ready to make that pull request now
11:36:50 <MarvinPA> or you can do it if you have blog powers, i don't actually know who does :P
11:36:58 <|amethyst> I doubt I do
11:37:15 <MarvinPA> ??cszo
11:37:15 <Wenzell> cszo[1/4]: New server (not officially up yet) in Pennsylvania, US: crawl.s-z.org --- ssh port 22, username crawl, key at http://dobrazupa.org/cszo_key (openssh) http://dobrazupa.org/cszo_key.ppk (putty)
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11:40:54 <Wensley> |amethyst: http://dobrazupa.org/cgi-bin/dgl-status is giving a game id of "crawl-git" rather than "dcss-git"
11:41:11 <|amethyst> Wensley:  oh
11:41:24 <|amethyst> Wensley:  duh, forgot to change that one
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11:44:09 <Wensley> |amethyst: thanks
11:44:14 <Wensley> |amethyst: is the watch link the same for both webtiles and dgl games?
11:44:36 <edlothiol> it is
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11:44:58 <|amethyst> Wensley:  okay, game names are now consistent between dgl and webtiles
11:45:19 <Wensley> so then, is there any difference at all between the dgl status page and the webtiles stats page?
11:45:23 <|amethyst> oh wait
11:45:49 <|amethyst> get rid of the web status one
11:46:03 <|amethyst> dgl reports the webtiles games just fine it seems
11:46:11 <Wensley> ha, can do
11:46:13 <|amethyst> though it does say 80x24 instead of 0x0
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11:46:27 <Wensley> |amethyst: I don't even report the termsize on this page
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11:47:11 <elliott> does anyone know what this pfix6.pl thing is that was in DCSS at some point but is no longer
11:48:01 <|amethyst> Wensley:  hm, I see  CßO
11:49:04 <edlothiol> me too
11:49:07 <Wensley> |amethyst: can you force refresh the page?
11:49:13 <Wensley> I just added the charset a minute ago
11:49:19 <|amethyst> okay, it works now
11:49:38 <Wensley> adding the watch link right now
11:50:52 <Wensley> oh no, no players to test with!
11:51:07 <Wensley> edlothiol: stop doing work and get back to playing games
11:52:12 <edlothiol> :D
11:53:15 <Wensley> excellent, the watch links work
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11:54:33 <|amethyst> Wensley:  also for console games, just tested
11:54:42 <Wensley> awesome
11:55:18 <edlothiol> nice
11:55:26 <|amethyst> Wensley:  btw, do you make wenzell's html learndb dump available?
11:56:27 <Wensley> |amethyst: I just need to figure out where the page is and then I can probably symlink to it from my webserver
11:56:41 <Wensley> assuming that works across the chroot boundaries
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11:58:59 <|amethyst> it's plain html with all relative links so it should work fine
11:59:13 <|amethyst> s/relative /self-/
12:03:30 <elliott> Wensley: you have to set up a cron job to generate it I think
12:03:37 <elliott> it's a separate perl (IIRC) script in the henzell repo
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12:03:51 <elliott> symlinks work across chroots, yes
12:04:33 <roctavian> hey, can i ask to tweak a few things in the tile weighting for a couple branches i made tiles for?
12:05:29 <roctavian> i think in spider, flavor-walls (webs and holes and whatever) show up a bit more frequently than they should, and also in cocytus runes on the floor show up way too frequently to look good
12:08:18 <edlothiol> roctavian: looking into it
12:08:40 <roctavian> edlothiol: thanks!
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12:12:12 <CIA-23> 03edlothiol * r2fac8e9e4a31 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (dc-floor.txt dc-wall.txt): Tweak some tile weights (roctavian).
12:12:12 <CIA-23> 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.11 * r75b55659c16a 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (dc-floor.txt dc-wall.txt): Tweak some tile weights (roctavian).
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12:14:25 <Grunt> Hm.
12:14:37 <Grunt> Do we have a sense of what CDO is going to do with respect to 0.11-b?
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12:20:31 <CIA-23> 03edlothiol * rf6aea0e460d1 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/mon/animals/worker_ant.png: Move the worker ant tile down (ontoclasm).
12:20:31 <CIA-23> 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.11 * r6d30eb993d80 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/mon/animals/worker_ant.png: Move the worker ant tile down (ontoclasm).
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12:40:17 <Wensley> edlothiol: so you said you need napkin to help you set up the dgl-status on cno?
12:40:39 <edlothiol> no
12:40:55 <edlothiol> I'll do that later
12:41:02 <Wensley> okay, let me know
12:41:04 <edlothiol> cso, by the way
12:41:08 <Wensley> playerstatus must grow
12:41:12 <edlothiol> er, csn
12:41:15 <Wensley> haha
12:41:20 <Wensley> nobody may claim cso
12:41:23 <elliott> this is going to be confusing
12:41:25 <Wensley> there would just be too much confusion
12:41:44 <Wensley> just as long as nobody starts naming servers using numbers I'll be fine
12:46:05 <Zannick> crawl.1.org
12:46:35 <Zannick> c3po
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12:50:14 <Wensley> Zannick: my perpetually-forthcoming server will be named SO2
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12:52:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  re: the okawaru thing, I'd welcome a better fix.  My commit was something of an emergency fix
12:53:46 <Wensley> |amethyst: the popularity of CBO is skyrocketing
12:53:54 <Wensley> three players!
12:53:58 <Wensley> four!
12:54:02 <|amethyst> NO!!!
12:54:08 <|amethyst> it is not a B!!!
12:54:12 <Wensley> hahaha
12:54:16 <Wensley> it is inevitable
12:54:25 <Wensley> nobody will notice the esztettet
12:54:53 <|amethyst> It is especially not a beta
12:54:58 <Wensley> |amethyst: it also makes sense if you consider that you're the north american backup server for CAO ;)
12:55:07 <|amethyst> I'm not a backup server :P
12:55:12 <elliott> |amethyst: do not worry, I will correct people who get the second letter wrong
12:55:18 <elliott> it is clearly paramount
12:55:31 <Wensley> not even sure how to type the szB
12:55:37 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/ even states in very clear terms that they are not the same
12:55:42 <elliott> Wensley: i copy-paste it
12:55:42 <|amethyst> it's compose-s-s for me
12:55:47 <|amethyst> but I have a compose key, so
12:55:57 <elliott> I should get βsomething.org and start CβO
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12:56:46 <Wensley> ddsdf sdfdsfdsdfsdf
12:56:49 <Wensley> sorry
12:57:02 <elliott> hi
12:57:12 <Wensley> that is the result of me trying to type it
12:57:34 <Wensley> did not consider the effect that ctrl+alt+s would have on irssi
12:57:47 <elliott> call it cddsdf sdfdsfdsdfsdfo
12:58:14 <Wensley> or c o, for short
12:58:32 <elliott> call it c?o
12:58:35 <elliott> the ? represents bad unicode handling
12:58:52 <Wensley> I think you mean CßO
13:00:03 <elliott> Wensley: btw, where is your page thing?
13:00:15 <elliott> server list thingy
13:00:28 <Wensley> elliott: http://seleniac.org/crawl/dcss-playerstatus/
13:01:05 <elliott> cool
13:01:17 <elliott> I was looking at http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/player-status
13:01:19 <elliott> which does not work
13:01:28 <Wensley> yes, cao broke it
13:01:32 <elliott> thanks cao
13:01:33 <Wensley> so I spent the morning making it more robust
13:01:48 <Wensley> so now we can add all sorts of garbage pages that do not actually exist yet
13:02:43 <|amethyst> !lg . -tv
13:02:43 <Sequell> 3972. neil, XL1 TrBe, T:1 requested for FooTV.
13:03:09 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
13:04:00 <elliott> !lg |amethyst x=src
13:04:00 <Sequell> 3972. [src=cszo] neil the Ruffian (L1 TrBe), quit the game in D:1 (dpeg entry ternary) on 2012-08-13, with 20 points after 1 turn and 0:00:09.
13:04:03 <elliott> nice
13:04:33 <Zannick> !lm * src=cszo
13:04:33 <Sequell> 38. [2012-08-13] Lawman0 the Firebug (L8 DEFE) killed the ghost of SevenDeadlySins the Insei, an experienced DrTm of Makhleb on turn 5972. (D:6)
13:04:41 <SevenDeadlySins> boo
13:04:56 <|amethyst> !hs * src=cszo
13:04:56 <Sequell> 15. pivotal the Phalangite (L12 MfBe), worshipper of Trog, mangled by a cyclops in D:12 on 2012-08-13, with 17814 points after 12969 turns and 0:30:55.
13:05:03 <Zannick> 38 milestones
13:05:07 <Zannick> pretty good
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13:10:35 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-18-gf6aea0e (33)
13:10:45 <edlothiol> to type �, just press the � key :P
13:11:17 <|amethyst> silly Europeans with your funny and quite diverse keyboards
13:11:51 <edlothiol> in return, I have awkward AltGr combinations for {[]}
13:12:20 <Wensley> |amethyst: so what is up with that federal notice thing on s-z
13:12:28 <|amethyst> Wensley:  heheh
13:12:40 <|amethyst> Wensley:  just trolling
13:12:49 <Wensley> right, I can see there in the page title
13:13:20 <Wensley> oh I see, there's a redirect after a bit
13:13:47 <elliott> as if anyone would stare at a page for 30 seconds waiting for something to happen
13:14:01 <|amethyst> I call it an easter egg
13:14:03 <|amethyst> :P
13:15:30 <Sizzell> Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11-b1-13-g6d30eb9
13:16:42 <SevenDeadlySins> i assume 0.11 is releasing for real soon
13:18:49 <|amethyst> definitely by the end of the month, maybe sooner
13:19:10 <Wensley> SevenDeadlySins: the feature freeze is past, so the 0.11 of right this second is basically the final version
13:19:21 <Wensley> you could be playing it right now!
13:19:24 <SevenDeadlySins> cool
13:19:29 <SevenDeadlySins> well
13:19:36 <SevenDeadlySins> i've been playing trunk exclusively
13:19:40 <SevenDeadlySins> so i guess i have then!
13:19:58 <elliott> do cacodemons have dig yet
13:20:00 <Wensley> playing only trunk is the only way to play
13:20:16 <SevenDeadlySins> they had really slow dig
13:20:23 <SevenDeadlySins> in the form of missing you repeatedly with orb of destruction
13:21:12 <HangedMan> s|orb of destruction|bolt of energy|
13:21:30 <Wensley> what a bold feature proposal
13:21:33 <Wensley> giving cacodemons dig
13:21:36 <elliott> SevenDeadlySins: they also had actual dig, so I hear
13:21:46 <elliott> Wensley: well monster dig was fixed and someone said cacodemons can get it back now!!
13:21:52 <elliott> i forget who. maybe monqy remembers
13:22:01 <HangedMan> dig should obviously be for deep troll earth elementalists
13:22:05 <Wensley> elliott: my idea was for cacodemons to have an aura of digging that instantly digs out any square in their LOS
13:22:12 <SevenDeadlySins> lol
13:22:25 <HangedMan> not enough auras
13:22:41 <Wensley> FR: deep troll spellcasters. FR: deep troll spellcasters do not actualyl cast any spells
13:22:42 <elliott> Wensley: i actually like that
13:23:12 <Wensley> "deep troll spellcaster" is an honorary title
13:23:26 <Wensley> it's like getting a diploma for graduating kindergarten
13:23:40 <elliott> "caster" monster, appears in shoals, fishes
13:23:52 <|amethyst> they learned cantrips, that's it
13:23:57 <Wensley> "caster" monster, appears in office buildings, rolls
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13:26:03 <HangedMan> give them wands so they can pretend they're casting magic dart
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13:26:13 <Grunt> elliott: evilmike suggested it.
13:26:19 <Wensley> HangedMan: did you see the new trick that I taught wenzell
13:26:28 <HangedMan> you mean !hm
13:26:34 <Grunt> I did the dig fix, though.
13:26:35 <Wensley> !hangedman
13:26:35 <Wenzell> ['commands/hangedman.py', 'Wensley', 'Wensley', '!hangedman', '', '']
13:26:45 <Zannick> Wenzell
13:26:46 <HangedMan> this is what I get for
13:26:47 <Zannick> Sizzell
13:26:49 <Zannick> ahahaha
13:27:05 <Wensley> it's like season 11 of the crawl sitcom
13:27:09 <Wensley> all these new characters to introduce
13:27:19 <elliott> kind of shark-jumping with the four-letter server abbreviations
13:27:25 <elliott> and the uh
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13:27:30 <Zannick> i hope that means they aren't going to kill off the old characters
13:27:31 <elliott> combined webtiles/console servers
13:27:32 <Wensley> henzell ascended the stairs at the end of the episode and was never mentioned again
13:27:39 <elliott> Zannick: CAO is already gone!
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13:27:51 <Zannick> elliott: but coming back!
13:28:00 <|amethyst> September'
13:28:08 <|amethyst> September's reveal is that CAO faked its own death
13:28:09 <elliott> Zannick: that's what they want you to think
13:28:38 <Zannick> cao died and will come back more powerful than we can possibly imagine
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13:29:14 <Wensley> the reason that cao's taking so long to come back up is because we're just wiring 78291 directly into it
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13:30:53 <bhaak> as a unique or as a player for watching? i want a brain in a jar, too!
13:31:07 <Wensley> bhaak: as the server itself!
13:31:12 <Zannick> as another auto option
13:31:18 <Zannick> you know, like autofight, autoexplore
13:31:19 <Wensley> auto291
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13:32:06 <bhaak> Zannick: and so it ends. the devteam has finally found a way for the game to play itself. dcss is complete.
13:32:27 <SevenDeadlySins> brogue does that
13:32:36 <Zannick> oh, no, but if dcss is complete then it isn't consistent!
13:32:37 <SevenDeadlySins> it's far less fun than it seems like it would be
13:32:53 <Wensley> crawl can play itself too
13:32:54 <|amethyst> Zannick:  no, it's just too weak
13:32:56 <Wensley> pick mibe
13:33:08 <elliott> pick febe
13:33:28 <|amethyst> Zannick:  like Presburger arithmetic
13:33:43 <Wensley> let's start a betting pool on the brokenest combo that will arise in 0.11
13:34:37 <|amethyst> wouldn't the devs just look at the top choices in the pool and fix those, thereby ensuring that they win?
13:34:50 <|amethyst> ("they" = the devs)
13:34:54 <Wensley> |amethyst: you have your own server! that means you are effectively a dev
13:34:56 <Zannick> opbe
13:35:13 <Zannick> Wensley: he also has a "+" which means he is actually a dev
13:35:14 <|amethyst> Wensley:  "effectively" :)
13:35:41 <Wensley> |amethyst: now it's real, for real
13:36:00 <|amethyst> in fact, hosting a server would make me *less* likely to be a dev
13:36:09 <Wensley> |amethyst: also can you like just zip up that chroot and mail it to me so that I can have a server
13:36:10 <|amethyst> since none of Napkin, rax, and phunktion is a dev
13:36:45 <HangedMan> brogue autoplay is for machine-less depth 1
13:36:49 <|amethyst> Wensley:  give me a few days and I'll package up my modified version of dgamelaunch-config with my config files
13:37:08 <HangedMan> too much is too much for A after that except for watching &s go forever or deaths because of capslock
13:37:14 <|amethyst> Wensley:  but there's still manual work to be done in the chroot, and since that has private stuff on it now...
13:37:37 <Wensley> |amethyst: that would be awesome, thanks. or if there's just some step-by-step thing that I can follow
13:37:40 <elliott> imo |amethyst should replace Wensley on the devteam
13:37:46 <Wensley> +1
13:37:59 <Wensley> I will replace |amethyst in real life tho
13:38:06 <Wensley> and thereby gain all his knowledge and power
13:38:47 <elliott> HangedMan: brogue autoplay is pretty good at "easy mode"
13:38:51 <elliott> the joke is easy mode
13:38:52 <rax> |amethyst: ?
13:39:03 <rax> Oh yeah I can update things whenever you want
13:39:06 <HangedMan> < hangedman> &s go forever
13:39:18 <|amethyst> rax:  everything's ready I guess:  I added ??cszo to learndb already
13:39:20 <rax> I think of server hosts as our own quasi-dev category :)
13:39:32 <elliott> HangedMan: o
13:40:07 <|amethyst> rax:  with more powers really :)
13:40:31 <MarvinPA> |amethyst: i added it to the how to play online page on cdo a minute ago also, btw
13:40:37 -!- rax changed the topic of ##crawl to: CAO is down for major renovations, back by early September, but try CSZO instead! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious!
13:40:40 <|amethyst> a dev wants to backdoor crawl?  it will be visible in the git history
13:41:03 <rax> I have submitted patches but not in aaaaaaaaaaaages
13:41:10 <rax> (and I am a terrible programmer anyway)
13:41:10 <|amethyst> napkin wants to backdoor crawl?  do it while generating the .tar.bz2s
13:41:25 <rax> hahahahaah :)
13:41:27 <rax> it's true!
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13:42:40 <rax> |amethyst: updates in topic and on CAO
13:42:56 <|amethyst> rax:  thanks!
13:43:08 <rax> anytime :D
13:43:23 <Wensley> |amethyst: four players on C|3O at the moment
13:43:26 <Wensley> let's see if it grows
13:43:42 <rax> this is a good time for new servers actually :)
13:44:43 <|amethyst> Wensley:  I read that as C-3PO
13:45:00 <|amethyst> that should be the next server, btw
13:45:25 <|amethyst> three.ponytaur.com
13:45:50 <|amethyst> I'm tempted to register ponytaur.com now...
13:46:01 <|amethyst> but will refrain
13:46:06 <BlastHardcheese> hydrataur
13:46:11 <Wensley> |amethyst: do you see the problem with that plan? :P
13:46:44 <Wensley> congratulations, you're now the proud new owner of C3P... fuck
13:46:53 <|amethyst> doh
13:47:03 <elliott> C3PC
13:47:09 <elliott> good
13:47:36 <|amethyst> well, ponytaur.org is also free if anyone wants it
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13:48:13 * elliott realises he could set up C3PO if he renews a domain... but won't
13:49:08 <rax> ponytaur.com doesn't exist?
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13:49:22 <rax> I'm sort of astounded some furry isn't all up on that
13:49:36 <|amethyst> I know
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14:19:03 <Wensley> |amethyst: 7 players now
14:21:33 <HangedMan> horrible large fractions of hugeterm, use it as area to collect them and then blow it up
14:22:01 <|amethyst> you can always watch the hugeterm games in webtiles
14:22:15 <Wensley> so... does watching webtiles games from dgl use 80x24, or does it use whatever size the player has their browser window set to?
14:22:17 <elliott> 1learn add baddevs
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14:22:24 <|amethyst> Wensley: 80x24
14:22:28 <Zannick> bad dudes
14:22:32 <elliott> |amethyst: hmm, so if the hugeterm games can be shown as normalterm in webtiles
14:22:41 <elliott> and webtiles games can be watched in 80x24 terminals
14:22:48 <elliott> |amethyst: does that mean you could set up a console->webtiles->console bridge that shows hugeterm games as normalterm?
14:22:55 <elliott> fr.
14:23:03 <|amethyst> elliott:  that's because webtiles does both webtiles and console output
14:23:15 <elliptic> we really need to figure out how to convert hugeterm into 80x24, yes
14:23:17 <|amethyst> and both versions are using the webtiles binaries
14:23:25 <elliott> |amethyst: oh, peh
14:23:59 <elliott> elliptic: I think it's not too difficult to do it just by processing the actual output but it's fiddly enough that I mostly gave up on it
14:24:34 <|amethyst> processing the output is the wrong way to do it I think
14:25:04 <ChrisOelmueller> yes, prevent the input~
14:25:06 <elliott> |amethyst: well the context was doing it for FooTV, where there is no other option
14:25:14 <elliott> (and a solution that works for FooTV as well as watching is ideal, of course)
14:25:16 <elliptic> !hs * cszo
14:25:16 <Sequell> 21. pivotal the Phalangite (L12 MfBe), worshipper of Trog, mangled by a cyclops in D:12 on 2012-08-13, with 17814 points after 12969 turns and 0:30:55.
14:25:17 <|amethyst> oh, yeah
14:25:36 <elliott> nice high score
14:25:42 <|amethyst> not going to record double the ttyrecs
14:27:03 <elliptic> |amethyst: just record a single 80x24 ttyrec, it will save a lot of space for hugetermers
14:27:20 <edlothiol> |amethyst: btw, how are you managing the webtiles server? do you run it directly from git or first install it?
14:27:49 <edlothiol> it probably wouldn't be too hard to write a console client for the webtiles socket that renders it in 80x24
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14:28:47 <|amethyst> elliptic:  yeah
14:28:52 <|amethyst> doh
14:29:28 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  I install the "webserver" directory, minus the config file and game_data, into the chroot (/crawl-master/webserver, alongside the per-revision directories) from DGL's install-trunk.sh
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14:30:03 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  and run it from there (no auto restart yet)
14:30:07 <edlothiol> ah, that's good
14:30:21 <|amethyst> the config file I install with dgl publish
14:30:22 <elliott> so how does webtiles handle weird hugeterm things
14:30:26 <elliott> like say scrolling through ^P or inventory
14:30:28 <edlothiol> yeah, I wouldn't add auto restart, since it isn't necessary very often and interrupts games
14:31:01 <|amethyst> elliott:  whenever someone does any of those commands, their game produces both the console output and the webtiles stuff to the socket
14:31:19 <edlothiol> elliott: menus have separate handling, the webtiles client receives the whole menu content and renders it themselves
14:31:49 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  so if you look at webtiles ttyrecs you won't see the menus scroll?
14:32:08 <|amethyst> and I suppose likewise in the other direction
14:32:20 <edlothiol> you will, I think
14:32:34 <elliott> hmm
14:32:35 <edlothiol> though it's not guaranteed that you will see exactly what the player scrolled to
14:32:39 <|amethyst> aha
14:32:49 <|amethyst> I was about to ask how that interacts with different page sizes
14:33:10 <edlothiol> I actually have to look up how I did that exactly ;)
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14:34:32 <edlothiol> ah, yes, the first item visible is synchronized
14:34:40 <|amethyst> oh, nice
14:36:35 <edlothiol> the webtiles client also sends the last visible item, but crawl just scrolls to the first one
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14:43:10 <Wensley> 8 players now
14:43:24 <Wensley> if anybody has any requests for the player status page while I'm wrist-deep in it, let me know
14:44:34 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  for a second there one user on my webtiles had two lines under "Milestone"
14:44:43 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  reloaded the page and it was gone
14:45:39 <edlothiol> hm, the "rolling" animation has problems sometimes
14:45:48 <|amethyst> ah
14:46:01 <|amethyst> no big deal then
14:46:10 <|amethyst> I was worried my milestones file was corrupted, but it's fine
14:47:15 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
14:47:27 <edlothiol> I think there's a problem with the idle time calculation for games started from DGL, though
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14:54:08 <edlothiol> so, is CSZO going to be announced on the blog?
14:55:09 <|amethyst> it's mentioned in the CAO Downtime entry
14:55:54 -!- domi_ has quit [Quit: さようなら]
14:56:03 <|amethyst> but I guess it could use an announcement of its own, since it's going to stay around once CAO's back up
14:56:41 <elliptic> what about CSN? did that ever get an announcement on the blog?
14:57:02 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:57:04 <|amethyst> also 0.10.3 and the fact that 0.11 is in beta could use articles
14:58:25 <edlothiol> I should really add a bot for CSN
14:59:10 <Wensley> edlothiol: not without a good name
14:59:11 <Wenzell> Wensley: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
14:59:53 <edlothiol> Wensley: that's the main blocker ;)
15:00:08 <Wensley> ??csn
15:00:08 <Wenzell> csn[1/1]: Webtiles trunk server at crawlus.somatika.net (US). Doesn't have its own bot yet, but Sequell knows about games played there.
15:01:40 <syraine> What's a 'good name'
15:02:16 <|amethyst> grep -E '^....(el|le)$' /usr/share/dict/words | less
15:03:39 <syraine> Soma.
15:03:53 <syraine> Soma, I guess.
15:04:05 <dpeg> Chanelle
15:04:09 <SevenDeadlySins> csn doesn't support saving macros atm =(
15:04:33 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/botnames.txt
15:04:36 <edlothiol> SevenDeadlySins: hmm, I'll have to look into that
15:04:46 <SevenDeadlySins> it's why i stopped using it
15:04:47 <syraine> Has to end in ell?
15:05:05 <dpeg> syraine: wouldn't work otherwise.
15:05:05 <edlothiol> |amethyst: I'll just have it choose a random name from that list every hour
15:05:10 <syraine> Clarabell.
15:05:18 <|amethyst> Bu�uell !!
15:05:21 <dpeg> two syllables only
15:05:25 <dpeg> |amethyst: <3
15:05:39 <dpeg> Spreequell
15:05:39 <SevenDeadlySins> edlothiol: i suggest étoiell
15:05:41 <syraine> That's three syllables!
15:05:54 <edlothiol> étoiell?
15:05:55 <dpeg> syraine: but the tilde on the n makes up for one
15:06:06 <SevenDeadlySins> alternately Buñuell
15:06:18 <syraine> "Arghyell"
15:06:18 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  oh, is it serving up the wrong charset?   looks fine in my browser
15:06:23 <SevenDeadlySins> or even Köchell
15:06:24 <SevenDeadlySins> :V
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15:07:24 <elliott> _2 bog bodies come into view.
15:07:24 <elliott> but the sidebar says "2 decayed bog bodies"
15:07:32 <syraine> Edlothiol, I have one that's two syllables and ends in 'ell'.
15:07:32 <edlothiol> |amethyst: yours (Bu�uell) works, but SevenDeadlySins' suggestions don't
15:08:00 <SevenDeadlySins> |amethyst: some characters weren't coming up right
15:08:07 <SevenDeadlySins> not sure which ones
15:08:18 <|amethyst> SevenDeadlySins:  looking at it in your browser?
15:08:22 <SevenDeadlySins> yes
15:08:28 <elliott> Cassell?
15:08:29 <SevenDeadlySins> as an aside
15:08:38 <SevenDeadlySins> chrome thinks that file is in maltese
15:08:41 <SevenDeadlySins> and wants to translate it
15:08:42 <elliott> Bu�uell doesn't work because irc won't allow that :P
15:09:28 <dpeg> Per-haps you could also start off from the first syllable of His name, so Hen(z).
15:09:41 <dpeg> That's unheard of, though... would be revolutionary.
15:11:30 <|amethyst> SevenDeadlySins:  the server doesn't send a charset with the content-type, and apparently your browser is configured to default to latin1
15:11:45 <SevenDeadlySins> yeah that makes sense
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15:15:02 <Wensley> wait, there is one bot that doesn't follow the pattern
15:15:04 <Wensley> Quelles
15:15:14 <Wensley> is this a precedent
15:15:46 <ChrisOelmueller> Hehfiel only had one L
15:16:08 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:16:13 * elliott stands behind Cassell for CSN... also has a nice duality with Sizzell due to the double s/z
15:16:24 <Wensley> so the rule is "either [one syllable]ell OR must be based on an existing bot"
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15:16:43 <Wensley> elliott: how about Steak
15:16:44 <edlothiol> I like Cassell
15:17:16 <dpeg> yes, Cassell is good
15:17:59 -!- syraine has quit [Quit: 'Dumbell'.]
15:18:45 -!- puke has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:18:47 <|amethyst> haha
15:18:52 <|amethyst> dumbell
15:19:47 <Zannick> Generell
15:19:52 <edlothiol> SevenDeadlySins: try saving macros now
15:20:08 <Wensley> Veneriell
15:20:20 <Zannick> Mackerell
15:20:29 <Wensley> Corporell
15:20:53 <Zannick> Ferrell
15:21:13 <SevenDeadlySins> edlothiol: works now
15:21:15 <SevenDeadlySins> thanks
15:21:16 <Zannick> Dowell
15:21:24 <Grunt> Lemuell.
15:21:25 <Wensley> Satchell
15:21:36 <Grunt> :p
15:21:44 <Zannick> Meniell
15:21:53 <Zannick> Casuell
15:22:01 <Zannick> Causell
15:22:02 <edlothiol> soupell
15:22:07 <Zannick> Ladell
15:22:24 <Wensley> Pellmell
15:22:24 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:22:35 <Zannick> Sidereall
15:22:44 <Wensley> Chattell
15:22:45 <Zannick> Sidereell doesn't really look good :P
15:23:04 <Zannick> Essentiell
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15:23:10 <Zannick> Sentinell
15:23:29 <Zannick> okay, i think i've thought of enough for one day
15:23:47 <elliptic> anthell
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15:24:14 <elliott> Ohhell
15:24:29 <Grunt> ...ohwell.
15:24:47 <Wensley> Cowbell
15:24:52 <edlothiol> haha
15:25:00 <Wensley> yes, that's a good one
15:25:16 <|amethyst> Wensley wins
15:25:29 <Zannick> clearly we need a crawl.w<something>.be
15:25:53 <|amethyst> is cra.wla.be available?
15:25:55 <Grunt> -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- cowbell is not registered.
15:26:03 <Wensley> crawlabe?
15:26:09 <|amethyst> err
15:26:20 <|amethyst> cra.wl.be
15:26:40 <|amethyst> oh, wl.bl is taken
15:26:47 <Zannick> wl.be is taken
15:26:55 <|amethyst> well, parked anyway
15:27:24 <Wensley> is anybody updating sigmund's twitter account
15:27:40 <Grunt> Sigmund has a Twitter account? o_O
15:27:46 <Grunt> ...does Grinder have a Twitter account? :p
15:27:57 <Wensley> I believe the idea is that he would auto-tweet every time he got a kill
15:28:04 <dpeg> haha
15:28:12 <Wensley> also sigmund is just more charismatic than grinder!
15:28:19 <Wensley> grinder could never be the face of crawl
15:28:24 <Wensley> yiuf could be
15:28:28 <dpeg> well, the cloak!
15:28:33 <Zannick> Xom should have a twitter account
15:28:48 <Grunt> Xom thinks this is hilarious!
15:28:58 <Grunt> fr: Xomuell.
15:29:09 <Wensley> xom just retweets random news stories with "xom thinks this is hilarious!"
15:29:23 <Wensley> "15 children dead in fatal bus accident. Xom thinks this is hilarious!"
15:29:32 <Zannick> xom should RT sigmund
15:29:36 <Zannick> and post splats
15:29:46 <Zannick> (and say Xom thinks this is hilarious)
15:29:48 <|amethyst> "Cute kittens win at state fair.  Xom thinks this is hilarious!"
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15:33:34 <Wensley> whoa, what the heck
15:33:37 <Wensley> Arca#dc-anc#Lost in Time#80x24#885#0#
15:33:39 -!- tJener has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:33:47 <Wensley> who is arca, what game are they playing that is "dc-anc"
15:33:55 <Wensley> oh
15:33:57 <Wensley> ancient
15:33:57 <Zannick> dungeon crawl, ancient?
15:34:11 <Wensley> I've never seen anyone play that before!
15:34:13 <elliptic> Wensley: 4.1
15:34:28 <Zannick> 4.1 is so far in the future! we're only on 0.11!
15:34:58 <dpeg> Wensley: somebody even won that (though he's a Finn, so it doesn't count) -- when everyone believed that 4.1 was unwinnable.
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15:38:14 <Wensley> they appear to have quit
15:38:16 <Wensley> good
15:38:24 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
15:38:54 <elliott> Wensley: "fatal" seems a bit redundant there
15:39:41 <Wensley> elliott: "15 children in fatal bus accident"
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15:41:15 <dpeg> Erik is playing.
15:41:32 <Zannick> he does that sometimes
15:41:46 <dpeg> In case you don't know: founding DCSS dev.
15:41:51 <Zannick> yeah i know
15:42:10 <Zannick> he hangs out in one of my other channels sometimes
15:42:13 <Grunt> It's not surprising.
15:42:26 <Grunt> Even that dpeg fellow is seen playing sometimes.
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15:43:05 <Zannick> crazy
15:43:48 <dpeg> Grunt: a number of devoted devs have never resurfaced: Haran, Robert, Enne.
15:44:01 <dpeg> I hope I can win a guy this tournament.
15:44:12 * Zannick has met enne
15:44:30 <Wensley> dpeg: I don't think there are any humans being awarded as prizes, but good luck!
15:44:35 * Zannick has missed a few haranp appearances, too
15:44:56 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:45:04 <bhaak> you should do auctions where you can buy dates with devs!
15:45:19 <Wensley> "a nyte with kilobyte"
15:45:53 <Wensley> "a tryst with |amethyst"
15:46:15 <dpeg> a martial arts bout with dpeg?
15:46:34 <Wensley> dpeg: no, you're married! :)
15:47:04 <elliott> a sley-ride with Wensley
15:47:07 <dpeg> true, now that you say it
15:47:09 <dpeg> elliott: <3
15:47:27 <Wensley> I'll take my commit bit now
15:47:29 <bhaak> Wensley: he's also European, those people don't take that as serious as the people on the other side of the atlantic ;-)
15:47:42 <Zannick> here, your commit bit is 0
15:47:45 <Zannick> ;D
15:47:45 <Wensley> "a walk with bhaak"
15:47:48 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
15:47:59 <Zannick> a blunt with grunt
15:48:02 <Zannick> a few with due
15:48:06 <Wensley> haha
15:48:12 <bhaak> Wensley: doesn't rhyme :)
15:48:21 <elliott> a pennsylvania with MarvinPA
15:48:27 <Wensley> right, and "a sley-ride with wensley" does
15:48:46 <elliott> a hike with evilmike
15:48:52 <Wensley> a romantic hike
15:49:20 <bhaak> "a day with bhaak" does rhyme ... in german
15:49:35 <Wensley> german: the language of love
15:49:44 <Zannick> show-and-tell with lemuel
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15:50:01 <elliott> a quick trip with elliptic... ok, that's stretching it a bit
15:50:06 <Wensley> a fun day with minmay
15:50:13 <dpeg> what have I done
15:50:21 <dpeg> oh, it was Wensley
15:50:25 <Zannick> dpeg: great things
15:50:27 <bhaak> you haven't experienced romeo and juliet before you have read it in the original german
15:51:16 <Wensley> nor afterwards as well, since I can't read german
15:51:22 <dpeg> A shame that Shaky had so awful translators.
15:52:23 <Wensley> "a bit too far with galehar"
15:53:45 -!- CptPickles has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:54:13 <elliott> a tally-ho with Keskitalo
15:54:15 <elliott> I give up
15:54:29 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Ukončuji]
15:54:46 <Wensley> yes that was awful
15:55:21 <Wensley> "a firm handshake with HangedMan"
15:55:23 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:55:33 <edlothiol> Wensley: http://crawlus.somatika.net/status
15:55:57 <Wensley> awesome
15:56:30 <Wensley> edlothiol: this is webtiles-only, right?
15:56:30 <Zannick> 0x0 is such a brilliant size
15:56:43 -!- KKCryptic has quit [Quit: Page closed]
15:56:53 <Wensley> zero-dimensional terminal
15:57:13 -!- ohhaycutie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:57:16 <elliott> Wensley: does this mean HangedMan is replacing you on the team?
15:57:34 <edlothiol> Wensley: yes, no DGL on CSN at the moment
15:57:46 <Zannick> we'll never tell / about your date with Henzell
15:57:59 <Wensley> / Burma-Shave
15:58:08 <Zannick> =p
15:58:30 <Wensley> edlothiol: what's the watch link
15:59:27 <edlothiol> crawlus.somatika.net:8080/#watch-(name)
15:59:41 <Wensley> edlothiol: also, is web-trunk something different from just normal trunk
16:00:21 <edlothiol> no
16:00:25 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:00:28 <edlothiol> I can rename it
16:00:41 <edlothiol> but won't at the moment
16:00:50 <Wensley> not hard to string-replace
16:01:14 <Wensley> but, the string-replacement engine is powered by the skin of children who have died in bus crashes
16:01:29 <Zannick> i always wondered how perl works
16:01:31 <Zannick> now i know
16:01:37 <Zannick> ;)
16:02:01 <|amethyst> Wensley:  btw, should probably use https:// for cszo webtiles
16:02:03 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: gn8]
16:02:12 <Wensley> will do
16:02:24 <Wensley> edlothiol: should I use https for yours too?
16:02:47 -!- aleax has quit []
16:02:53 <|amethyst> Wensley:  just crawl.s-z.org stuff, not dobrazupa.org (no SSL for that domain)
16:03:14 <evilmike> do the new servers work with sequell?
16:03:18 <|amethyst> evilmike:  yes
16:03:21 <evilmike> cool
16:03:27 <|amethyst> !lg * s=src / tiles
16:03:53 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev
16:04:09 <Sequell> 251021/1750472 games for *: 3550/3550x csn [100.00%], 36/36x cszo [100.00%], 247435/727836x cdo [34.00%], 0/1009348x cao [0.00%], 0/9702x rhf [0.00%]
16:04:19 <|amethyst> oh crap
16:04:27 <|amethyst> all games on cszo look like they're tiles
16:05:00 <Wensley> edlothiol: if you could remind yourself to eventually make your game/version ids (dcss-web-trunk, etc) look just like |amethyst's that would be super
16:05:01 <elliott> !lg . cszo x=tiles
16:05:01 <Sequell> No games for elliott (cszo).
16:05:07 <elliott> what
16:05:09 <elliott> well
16:05:10 <elliott> thank god
16:05:16 <elliptic> !lg * cszo s=tiles
16:05:16 <Sequell> 36 games for * (cszo): 36x y
16:05:20 <|amethyst> !lg * cszo s=name / tiles
16:05:20 <Sequell> 36/36 games for * (cszo): 3/3x durgis [100.00%], 1/1x SevenDeadlySins [100.00%], 1/1x MidsizeBlowfish [100.00%], 13/13x Lawman0 [100.00%], 1/1x coined [100.00%], 5/5x neil [100.00%], 1/1x fezzick [100.00%], 3/3x pivotal [100.00%], 1/1x edlothiol [100.00%], 2/2x pubby [100.00%], 3/3x SGrunt [100.00%], 1/1x elliott [100.00%], 1/1x Insomniak [100.00%]
16:05:33 <elliott> NO!O!!!!
16:05:43 <elliott> is there any way to fix this
16:05:47 <elliptic> elliott: are you not nicked to yourself again
16:05:56 <elliott> oh right that
16:06:01 <Zannick> !lg elliott x=name
16:06:02 <Sequell> 32. [name=undermind] undermind the Warrior (L27 KoSk), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-08-26, with 1393303 points after 88769 turns and 10:50:07.
16:06:11 <Zannick> !lg elliott s=name
16:06:11 <Sequell> 32 games for elliott: 32x undermind
16:06:19 <|amethyst> !tell greensnark it looks like sequell is counting all cszo games as tiles.  The files aren't distinct, and because of how people use 'tiles' to mean 'not bigterm' it would be better to mark them all as not-tiles
16:06:19 <Wenzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
16:06:43 <Zannick> !seen greensnark
16:06:44 <Wenzell> I last saw greensnark at Mon Aug 13 17:53:45 2012 UTC (3h 12m 59s ago) saying |amethyst: Thanks on ##crawl.
16:07:02 <Zannick> ah
16:08:17 <edlothiol> |amethyst: that's governed by a flag in the logfile, but I thought that should be set right
16:08:28 <edlothiol> Wensley: CSN doesn't have SSL currently
16:08:32 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Page closed]
16:09:32 <Wensley> edlothiol: okay, csn is on the page
16:09:46 <Wensley> currently beating out czo, too
16:10:10 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  it's being set for both I think
16:10:35 <edlothiol> how do I set the nickserv password in the henzell config?
16:10:50 <Wensley> edlothiol: a file named password.txt
16:11:03 <|amethyst> !lg . tear s=src,tiles
16:11:03 <Sequell> 2 games for |amethyst (tear): cdo (), cszo (y)
16:11:33 <|amethyst> !lg . tear x=src,tiles
16:11:33 <Sequell> 2. [src=cszo;tiles=y] neil the Charlatan (L1 TeAr), quit the game in D:1 (matt entry diagonals) on 2012-08-13, with 20 points after 0 turns and 0:00:04.
16:11:36 <|amethyst> that game was run entirely from dgamelaunch
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16:11:55 <|amethyst> how is m_controlled_from_web determined exactly?
16:12:07 <|amethyst> I see if it gets an "attach" message?
16:12:37 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:12:37 <edlothiol> ooh
16:12:56 <|amethyst> !tell greensnark ...or I'll just figure out how to fix my logfiles; it may be unnecessary
16:12:56 <Wenzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
16:12:57 <Cassell> Unable to add your message to greensnark's queue, sorry!
16:12:59 <edlothiol> I was planning to send primary=false if it's not controlled from web
16:13:22 <|amethyst> only one !tell bot at a time please :P
16:13:33 <edlothiol> er, yes
16:13:47 <edlothiol> now how to stop cassell again ;)
16:14:01 <|amethyst> this is gretell's source?
16:14:01 <elliott> so cassell is of the henzell genus, not gretell?
16:14:07 <elliott> if it does tell and learndb
16:14:10 <|amethyst> ohh
16:14:14 -!- Cassell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:14:15 <Zannick> ?? henzell
16:14:15 <Wenzell> henzell[1/5]: Linley Henzell is the original creator of Crawl. "Henzell" is also the ##crawl bot. If you want the source for *this bot*, go here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell
16:14:27 <|amethyst> err... henzell is a lot more complicated, I have no idea
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16:14:47 <edlothiol> it's all the same source, or is it not?
16:14:53 <Zannick> mostly
16:14:57 <edlothiol> I used greensnark's repo
16:15:01 <Zannick> as far as i know
16:15:01 <edlothiol> is there another one?
16:15:07 <|amethyst> gretell is separate
16:15:08 <elliott> i hear gretell is a separate program
16:15:15 <Zannick> henzell/gretell/sequell just use different parts, i think
16:15:43 <|amethyst> git://git.develz.org/gretell.git is where I got mine
16:19:40 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
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16:23:45 <elliptic> gretell is missing some of the nice features of henzell
16:23:58 <elliptic> like nicks and !rc
16:24:32 <elliott> clearly we need one of the new bots based on henzell and the other on gretell
16:24:35 <elliott> for symmetry
16:24:36 <elliptic> players in ##crawl always get very confused when their nick doesn't work with @whereis... would be sort of good to fix this sometime
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16:27:54 <ChrisOelmueller> |amethyst: more unicode trouble ahead, http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/chris/chris.txt
16:29:15 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller:  I guess I'll set the server to serve everything as utf-8
16:29:18 <ChrisOelmueller> |amethyst: relevant line is  cset_unicode = arch:ሴ
16:30:12 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller:  and the dump looks wrong for you?
16:30:20 <ChrisOelmueller> it does
16:30:23 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller:  try force-reload
16:30:34 <ChrisOelmueller> works now
16:31:29 <|amethyst> (doesn't affect s-z.org since that's a separate server, or crawl.s-z.org since that's a separate program)
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16:40:44 <|amethyst> okay, fixed it
16:45:26 <|amethyst> oop
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16:45:31 <|amethyst> !tell greensnark never mind, it's fixed on my end
16:45:31 <Wenzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
16:45:46 <elliott> !lg * cszo s=tiles
16:45:47 <Sequell> 46 games for * (cszo): 45x y,
16:46:01 <Grunt> !lg * cszo !tiles
16:46:02 <Sequell> 1. neil the Skirmisher (L1 MuBe), quit the game in D:1 (saegor entry simple C) on 2012-08-13, with 20 points after 1 turn and 0:00:05.
16:46:08 <Grunt> !lg . cszo x=tiles
16:46:08 <Sequell> 3. [tiles=y] SGrunt the Gusty (L3 TeAE), splashed by acid in D:2 on 2012-08-13, with 75 points after 1870 turns and 0:05:29.
16:46:09 <Grunt> LIES!
16:46:13 <elliott> |amethyst: the old games still have to be readded to the DB I think
16:46:18 <elliott> to erase the tiles status
16:46:24 <|amethyst> I haven't updated the old games
16:46:27 <elliott> ah
16:46:34 <edlothiol> |amethyst: that is almost exactly the same code I just wanted to push
16:46:48 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  sorry to step on your toes
16:46:53 <edlothiol> the only difference is the whitespace around the = in the function definition :D
16:47:30 <CIA-23> 03|amethyst * r118cb57550ac 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/process_handler.py: Don't flag games as 'tiles' with watch_socket_dirs.
16:47:34 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  I was just following the spacing in connection.py
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16:48:03 <edlothiol> yes, I guess I'm a bit inconsistent with that
16:48:05 -!- dptr1988_ has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:48:57 <edlothiol> PEP8 says no spaces around the = for default parameters
16:50:09 <|amethyst> ah... python's down around #4 or 5 in my list of frequently-used languages
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17:01:12 <|amethyst> Wenzell:  now you can determine tile-ness from the logfile entries on dobrazupa.org, if you want to say something like Both (Web) or Both (Term)
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17:01:18 <|amethyst> oop
17:01:22 <elliott> <Wenzell> thanks
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17:01:33 <Zannick> Wenszley
17:01:33 <|amethyst> !tell Wensley Now you can determine tile-ness from the logfile entries on dobrazupa.org, if you want to say something like Both (Web) or Both (Term)
17:01:34 <Wenzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let Wensley know.
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17:03:50 <SevenDeadlySins> so
17:03:55 <SevenDeadlySins> the prompt for auto-sacrifice
17:04:19 <SevenDeadlySins> can we make it so that pressing (p)ray is a valid input for that y/n prompt
17:04:55 <elliott> can we just remove that prompt
17:05:11 -!- tJener has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:06:22 <SevenDeadlySins> i like the prompt
17:06:27 <SevenDeadlySins> but i wish it wouldn't set a full ignore
17:06:34 -!- Pthing has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:06:48 <SevenDeadlySins> i wish it was more like the autopickup when full prompt
17:06:59 <SevenDeadlySins> where yes ignores, no stops the autopickup but doesn't ignore
17:07:55 <SevenDeadlySins> except instead, (y)es/(p)ray sacrifices, (n)o stops autotravel but doesn't ignore, (i)gnore resumes autotravel and ignores
17:08:18 <elliott> |amethyst: chris isn't listed on https://crawl.s-z.org/#lobby
17:08:22 <elliott> even though he's listed on dgl
17:08:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
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17:09:30 <|amethyst> elliott:  strange, the socket is there
17:10:20 <|amethyst> just a sec and I'll take a closer look
17:10:28 <edlothiol> since when is he playing?
17:10:39 <edlothiol> the server doesn't check for games that have been running before it started
17:10:43 <|amethyst> that's it
17:10:53 <|amethyst> I restarted webtiles just a sec ago
17:10:55 <elliott> ah
17:11:25 <|amethyst> well, an hour or so ago
17:11:33 <|amethyst> err, half hour
17:12:09 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-19-g118cb57 (33)
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17:34:59 <Grunt> Time to stir the pot a little...
17:35:01 <Grunt> http://pastebin.com/82UiUejH
17:35:23 <Grunt> (...why does Mantis not allow us to submit 0.12 issues at the moment?)
17:35:35 <SevenDeadlySins> is there a changelog for .12 atm?
17:35:46 <evilmike> no
17:35:52 <Grunt> No, because not much has changed in 0.12.
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17:36:11 <evilmike> Grunt: I've always been uneasy about the idea of alternative zot:5 vaults, myself
17:36:14 <Grunt> We're waiting for 0.11-b to be available on the servers that will be making it available before doing that.
17:36:34 <Grunt> evilmike, as uneasy as people about, say, alternate Tomb layouts? :b
17:36:59 <Grunt> s/people about/some people are about/
17:37:11 <evilmike> tomb I'm more open to, the problem there is just that it's extremely hard to design something good
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17:41:20 <evilmike> with Zot, there's also the issue of being hard to design, but also balance. I think it would be bad to have an "easier layout" and a "harder layout" for example
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17:43:30 <elliptic> I still miss the days with a single orbvault :/
17:43:43 <elliptic> I'm open to the idea of an alternative tomb map, though
17:44:12 <Zannick> fr: switch zot and tomb
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17:45:45 <Grunt> Zot in general is going to be improved upon soon enough; it's going to be able to use more map layouts.
17:50:06 <evilmike> should probably still restrict the ones it can have (like some other branches are), emphasizing a certain type
17:51:05 <Grunt> I find that if I disable the cities layouts and layout_roguey for it, we end up with a relatively cohesive feel while still being varied enough.
17:51:18 -!- jbenedet1o is now known as jbenedetto
17:51:20 <evilmike> yeah I was going to say, city layouts should be disabled there
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17:57:56 <Grunt> It looks like there are two layouts it uses if those are disabled - _basic and _loops_misc.
17:58:08 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:59:35 <Grunt> I think we need more than two layouts. :p
18:01:16 <evilmike> layout_rooms and layout_misc might work well
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18:02:36 <evilmike> layout_rooms gets you something like current zot levels
18:02:50 <Grunt> I think it would be a good idea to enable those for late D as well if/when the use-layouts-with-primary-vaults idea lands.
18:05:11 <evilmike> layout_basic I think should be excluded from zot, since it likes to place doors, water, lava, and occasionally rivers
18:05:20 <evilmike> that one is really good for geh and coc, but it doesn't seem very zot like ot me
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18:23:49 <st_> I've seen old csplat games with lava rivers in zot
18:23:57 <Grunt> We could add exceptions to the basic builder to not place those; there are already tweaks to the behaviour for Geh and Coc.
18:24:03 <st_> I kind of like it actually
18:24:16 <st_> with all the dragons around it seems appropriate to me
18:24:47 <evilmike> st_: I guess I'm just too used to the current form
18:25:02 <HangedMan> even more giant goldfish in zot?
18:25:23 <st_> by the way, I think shortnening zot is a bad idea, people already consider a dive branch, 3 is way too few
18:25:24 <evilmike> the only reason why zot looks the way it does now is because it puts a vault on every level to set the colours. I never saw any comments saying that locking it to one layout was intentional. Seems to just be a side effect
18:25:25 * Grunt recalls spotting an electric eel in a Zot evilmike_ambush once :)
18:25:41 <evilmike> I agree, keep it at 5 levels
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18:27:58 <evilmike> with shortening branches, lowering Vaults to 5 (and increasing its depth by 3) would be good though. Especially with the overhaul infiniplex did (which increases XP per level)
18:29:16 <st_> always having max depth V:8 would be fun
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18:29:34 <HangedMan> v:8 depth was fixed with absdepth for all branches, wasn't it?
18:29:55 <Zannick> yeah, i think so
18:29:57 <evilmike> v:8 is always the same depth now yes
18:30:23 <evilmike> it's not 27, but it's deep enough to get titans, golden dragons, etc
18:30:30 <HangedMan> I was going to say "man, 8 - 5 - 3 for V - C - tomb was neat" except then I remembered elf
18:30:41 <evilmike> uhhhhhhh ok
18:31:59 <Zannick> what
18:32:10 <HangedMan> don't mind me, just being crazy
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18:51:04 <SevenDeadlySins> |amethyst: on cszo trunk, you can't use the list aptitudes button in character selection screen
18:51:07 <SevenDeadlySins> using webtiles
18:52:13 <Grunt> Okay, I found the cause of the occasional crash in my code to get primary vault levels to also use layouts afterwards.
18:52:38 <Grunt> I think it is worth adding in once we get into "start adding major features" mode for 0.12. :)
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18:59:47 <|amethyst> SevenDeadlySins:  odd... it works in console
19:01:18 <|amethyst> SevenDeadlySins:  same on CDO webtiles... I think there might be a mantis entry about it, not sure
19:01:26 <|amethyst> SevenDeadlySins:  as a workaround, ??% seems to work
19:02:04 <|amethyst> or maybe not... it's messed up afterwards :(
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19:28:18 <CIA-23> 03kilobyte * r3b73544b84b4 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (23 files in 2 dirs): wad's set of tree tiles.
19:28:24 <CIA-23> 03kilobyte * r3ef38836e3fd 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/UNUSED/worn/ (broadsword_holy.png shield_holy.png): Two of Denzi's equipment tiles, apparently misplaced.
19:28:51 <HangedMan> quick bugfix for hangedman_xom_zot_hilarity: changes the @s to help the vault place, actually places safe entrances I accidentally filtered out: http://pastebin.com/M1czrzpw
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20:10:43 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-21-g3b73544 (33)
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21:45:25 <HangedMan> _place_aquatic_monsters in dungeon.cc seems to want to try and place water elementals, but it never places the water elementals inside water so you end up with weird rare random water elementals in D and Coc and Tar
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23:34:24 <Sizzell> limetea (L14 SpEn) ASSERT(item.is_valid(iinfo)) in 'tags.cc' at line 2682 failed. (Orc:1)
23:34:32 <Grunt> o_O
23:34:40 <Grunt> !lm limetea crash -log
23:34:40 <Sequell> No milestones for limetea (crash).
23:34:56 <Grunt> !lm limetea crash -log
23:34:56 <Sequell> 1. limetea, XL14 SpEn, T:20376 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/limetea/crash-limetea-20120814-043340.txt
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