00:02:20 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-3159-g28b190a (33) 00:02:33 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:05:12 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:05:57 -!- sbluen has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:06:34 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:32 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:07:37 * |amethyst kicks CIA-23 00:07:37 ow 00:07:38 <|amethyst> hm 00:07:49 <|amethyst> %git 00:07:49 MarvinPA * 0.11-a0-3159-g28b190a: Remove some unecessary references to Lua files from options_guide.txt (5 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/28b190a1c653 00:07:54 <|amethyst> oh 00:07:59 <|amethyst> I misread the time 00:08:05 <|amethyst> forgot about time zones :) 00:11:04 Ok, brainstorming up stats for a yaktaur arbalest (read: to yaktaurs what deep elf master archers are to deep elves) 00:11:25 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:45 <|amethyst> arbalestier or arblaster please :) 00:11:50 03|amethyst * r666ce1df5ee8 10/crawl-ref/git-hooks/crawl-ref-cia: Add Translators to CIA hook. 00:11:56 Arbalestier 00:11:57 03|amethyst * r891905d7d316 10/crawl-ref/docs/options_guide.txt: Merge "Lua files" and "Lua" sections of options_guide.txt. 00:12:06 aren't those called yaktaur captains? 00:12:20 Not quite 00:12:44 <|amethyst> evilmike_: yaktaur captains : yaktaur :/: deep elf master archer : deep elf :) 00:12:55 <|amethyst> s/tains/tain/ 00:13:00 Oh. 00:13:28 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-3161-g891905d 00:13:35 true that a DEMA is more dangerous, since it shoots more quickly 00:13:50 I should probably close my 'glow enhancer mutation' patch 00:13:58 Yeah. The idea is that the yaktaur arbalestier would have that same advantage. And also more HD. 00:14:02 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:13 a rapid fire cross bow might be a bit weird, I know such things existed but they weren't as powerful as normal crossbows 00:14:18 <|amethyst> give them a larger crossbow that only they (and maybe trolls/ogres?) can use 00:14:32 ^...Name it the arbalest then. 00:14:33 <|amethyst> akin to large rock : stone :) 00:14:54 the CIA is translating crawl now? ;) 00:15:09 also, if it's going to be a copy of deep elf master archers, is there a reason not to simply use those instead? 00:15:20 high level elves could be made more common in late D, for example 00:15:30 ...that's a good idea. 00:15:32 <|amethyst> BlastHardcheese: no, we're passing our translations to the CIA to scan contributors for unamerican tendencies 00:15:58 Then again, so is the idea of giving them a crossbow only usable by huge races. 00:17:14 perhaps if deep trolls are ever given jobs, one of them could shoot you with something like that 00:17:18 <|amethyst> BlastHardcheese: that's why the americans and our patsies the canadians have been growing in number in the devteam 00:17:32 <|amethyst> BlastHardcheese: it's a recruiting tool 00:17:54 nooo! The DevTeam is supposed to be peopled by Europeans 00:18:13 I moved to England to get on the DevTeam and then you guys changed the rules. 00:18:25 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:18:33 You might be a bit too obsessed with this game 00:18:39 pft england is just an american colony anyway 00:18:49 <|amethyst> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:admin:devteam just count the numbers and look at the dates 00:20:30 Checked; ogres and trolls have horrible apts in crossbows. Not much of a surprise, but still 00:20:56 How about making Trolls that throw giant crossbows. 00:20:57 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:21:06 I'd say base damage 8 on account of that. If that's somehow still too good, base 7 will work. 00:21:22 -!- Panfork has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:00 if you want to justify (monster) trolls using crossbows, just give them a -2 apt or something. good by troll standards, and not going to upset balance much 00:22:16 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:22:17 i doubt players would ever want to use it, since unarmed + throwing is always good enough 00:22:17 -!- shrot has quit [Quit: shrot] 00:22:46 ....Why not? Still a small buff to them after all 00:23:26 because thrown large rocks and steel javelins are strong enough already 00:23:35 without needing a launcher 00:23:53 Yeah. 00:23:55 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:12 <|amethyst> evilmike_: much more ammo for crossbows though 00:24:26 Large rocks almost never break though 00:24:28 even if the launcher is really strong, few people will use it because the alternative is good enough, and launchers require swapping 00:24:28 <|amethyst> easier to spam against large groups of monsters 00:24:36 -!- xnavy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:43 in my experience, its easier to go with the option that uses fewer keypresses, even if it's slightly weaker 00:25:41 also, isn't this giant crossbow idea supposed to be something like a hand held ballista? That is, it shoots rocks or spears, and is ridiculusly large 00:26:03 True. Make javelins the ammunition or something 00:26:05 I recall someone talking about it before. weird idea, although amusing 00:26:10 Although that is somewhat overkill 00:26:22 <|amethyst> a real arbelest was a metal-prodded crossbow 00:26:46 <|amethyst> I guess it could work with javelins :) 00:26:47 yeah, but if crawl actually had arbalests (not a terrible idea), it should be usable by normal races 00:27:10 it might be good just to have an extra tier of crossbows. its weird how they are the only weapon class with 1 weapon 00:27:13 <|amethyst> "it" being the giant crossbow, not the arbalest 00:27:30 <|amethyst> evilmike_: their whole thing is "starts good, doesn't really scale" 00:27:34 <|amethyst> evilmike_: compared to bows 00:28:03 <|amethyst> evilmike_: also, slings have only one weapon :) 00:28:07 yeah 00:28:22 people have brought up slingshots and "staff slings" as possible additions there 00:28:42 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:29:08 bad idea of the moment: giant spore + eye of draining (devastation?)) 00:29:23 what would that do, exactly? 00:29:29 Explode and kill your MP completely? 00:29:30 explode and drain your MP 00:29:42 <|amethyst> staff sling could be neat, especially if it meant you could do weak melee without swapping 00:30:25 giant spores work in that short part of the game when you aren't as likely to have reliable ranged attacks. a late game version wouldn't work, even if it drained mp like that 00:30:28 And the idea behind the siege crossbow is like how the giant spiked club is stronger than everything else; you want this, you're going to have to plan your game around using it. 00:30:52 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:30:54 And that includes your species. 00:30:55 evilmike_: make them invisible and have huge EV? ;) 00:31:03 Mana dart 00:31:05 bmh: invisible sounds unfair 00:31:16 spores do a lot of damage, and being exploded (and killed) out of nowhere would be unfun 00:31:23 <|amethyst> unstable ghost moth what? 00:32:08 Butterfly of Xom -- like a normal butterflies but leaves clouds of chaos :) 00:32:10 note: i like explosions, they just need to be handled carefully... 00:32:45 ^Referencing the chaos butterfly theory, eh? 00:33:08 Lightli: it isn't as punny as 'orb spider', but yeah 00:33:27 <|amethyst> vault with a butterfly, and if you kill it a twister appears 00:33:35 <|amethyst> or if it sees you 00:34:19 bad ideas... 00:34:27 I imagine this as being a butterfly that leaves spatial vortices in its wake, as a sort of "butterfly effect". problem is, no one wants to fight butterflies, they suck :P 00:35:26 when i see one, i'll often use a wand of fireball on it 00:35:50 Dang it, now I want that siege crossbow in the game so I can shoot Cerebov with it. 00:36:25 <|amethyst> butterfly spells:sleep name:tsetse_fly n_rpl n_des n_spe 00:36:26 -!- kast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:33 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:37:41 Eh, we can discuss the idea after .11 comes out 00:38:10 <|amethyst> Lightli: beta is this weekend 00:38:29 So when beta starts, that's the point where trunk becomes .12? 00:38:31 ??Cerebov 00:38:32 cerebov[1/5]: Guards the fiery rune with the Sword of Cerebov and spells of iron shot, haste, fire storm, and summon greater demons. Can defeat nearly anything consistently in !fight. His level is crawling with balrugs. 00:38:35 <|amethyst> yes 00:39:03 <|amethyst> .12-a0 anyway :) 00:39:07 evilmike_: how 'bout a xom altar with a single bewildered 'butterfly of xom'. If you kill the butterfly, you get Xom wrath 00:39:24 no thanks :P 00:39:56 <|amethyst> Lightli: of course, devs will probably be focused on bugfixing 0.11 and preparing for the release and tournament 00:40:23 <|amethyst> Lightli: but there's a bunch of stuff waiting to go in (none from me sadly) 00:40:26 Got it. Shelve any interesting ideas I have until the weekend after next or something 00:40:37 Xom wrath is great, it's like worshipping Xom. 00:40:41 <|amethyst> no, go ahead and write them 00:42:51 -!- Buizel17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:40 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:56 -!- Buizel17 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:49:15 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:59 Arbalest: A massive and complicated piece of machinery designed to fire bolts with unrelenting force. Accuracy rating: -2. Base Damage Rating: 8. Base attack delay: 170% 00:50:17 Numbers can be adjusted later on. 00:50:50 <|amethyst> any ranged numbers will have to be adjusted later on 00:50:50 ??crossbow 00:50:52 crossbow[1/1]: You know what it looks like, right? Good. It also has a basic damage rating of 5 and 150% attack speed delay. Fires crossbow bolts. 00:50:58 ??longbow 00:50:59 longbow[1/2]: A long, strong bow made of yew. Dam 6, Acc 0, Delay 12. You get it from centaur warriors (1/3 chance), non-specialist elves (5%), master archers (100%), Nessos (100%, flame). 00:51:48 Remember, the idea is to have it be like the giant spiked club; more powerful than anything else, but only trolls and ogres can use it. 00:52:37 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 00:52:52 <|amethyst> should still fsim it to be sure 00:53:03 ??fsim 00:53:04 fsim[1/1]: A fight simulator in wizmode, accessible with &f. 00:53:50 <|amethyst> !learn edit fsim s/&f/&f or &F/ 00:53:51 fsim[1/1]: A fight simulator in wizmode, accessible with &f or &F. 00:54:07 <|amethyst> !learn edit fsim s/ or / and / 00:54:07 fsim[1/1]: A fight simulator in wizmode, accessible with &f and &F. 00:55:15 sooo.. |amethyst, how can I help? 00:55:51 <|amethyst> Napkin: dgamelaunch and webtiles config files are the big thing... I've got it set up but not everything is working correctly 00:56:19 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 00:56:21 <|amethyst> Napkin: I'm wanting to go further than CDO and integrate saves between webtiles and dgl but I know that'll be a bit of work for trunk 00:56:38 It doesn't appear to be working well 00:56:48 <|amethyst> webtiles isn't working at all right now 00:57:00 I mean the fight command with ranged weapons 00:57:06 nah, shouldn't be too much hassle, actually 00:57:24 but my webtiles config doesn't have it yet either 00:57:41 <|amethyst> (not working because I haven't set it up to run in the chroot yet, but I'm pointing at a chrooted executable) 00:58:03 i think webtiles isn't chrooted yet either 00:58:15 <|amethyst> Napkin: I was trying to figure out how to handle save transfers with a combined webtiles + dgl 00:58:21 edlothiol implemented it after last time i was working on it 00:58:43 CDO is kinda using the same script to do that, |amethyst 00:59:01 the one for webtiles just outputs javascript 00:59:16 Why does it take 9 steel bolts to kill an orc knight with a +9 +9 crossbow, steel bolts, and 27 xbows skill 00:59:43 ??ranged combat 00:59:43 ranged combat[1/2]: Nobody understands ranged combat. 00:59:45 armour? 01:00:42 Does fight even work with ranged combat? 01:01:04 <|amethyst> I'm not 100% certain it works correctly 01:01:26 ??ranged combat[2] 01:01:27 launcher damage[1/2]: Average damage = (B/2 + L/8 + A/16 + min((str - 10)*(2B+A)*C, (L+1)/4))*(1+skill/D)*(brand multiplier) + slaying/4 + A/2 + (L/2 if using xbow). Here A is the ammo enchantment, L is the launcher enchantment, and B, C, and D are constants depending on what type of launcher you are using (see [2]). 01:01:29 ??unified combat 01:01:30 I don't have a page labeled unified_combat in my learndb. 01:01:31 <|amethyst> but I don't see why it wouldn't be 01:01:44 I thought someone unified combat to make it all consistent between players and mobs? 01:01:46 <|amethyst> what is the delay formula? 01:01:47 ??launcher damage [2] 01:01:48 launcher damage[2/2]: B = 4 for sling+stone, 6 for sling+bullet, 6.5 for bow+arrow, 9.5 for longbow+arrow or xbow+bolt. C = 1/72 for slings, 1/32 for bows, and 0 for xbows. D = 28 for slings, 34 for bows, and 44 for xbows. 01:01:54 Is ranged combat[2] a sick joke? 01:01:55 <|amethyst> bmh: to put the code into one place 01:02:30 <|amethyst> bmh: not to actually unify the formulas (or even, in some cases, the order in which things are processed) 01:02:33 No, it honestly makes no sense 01:02:36 <|amethyst> bmh: also, that was melee only 01:03:47 |amethyst: http://crawl.develz.org/source/infrastructure/ 01:04:03 <|amethyst> Napkin: thanks! 01:04:12 03galehar * ra0c0049d566c 10/crawl-ref/source/stash.cc: Exclude Ashenzari from the new greedy_sacrificiable. 01:04:44 let me know, if you need anything else, |amethyst :) 01:05:06 -!- GiantOwl has quit [Changing host] 01:05:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:37 <|amethyst> Napkin: oops... forgot to tell wget not to go up a level 01:05:45 -!- GiantOwl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:05:57 not much there ;) 01:07:25 ??enchanted forest 01:07:26 I don't have a page labeled enchanted_forest in my learndb. 01:07:29 <|amethyst> Napkin: I'm sure if I'd left it going it would have hit the tavern 01:07:39 <|amethyst> and mantis 01:07:45 you said up "a" level ;D 01:07:47 Just messing around with a fully ponderous Naga in wizard mode; forest? 01:07:52 ctrl+c then, please ;) 01:08:03 <|amethyst> Napkin: take the Kleene closure of everything I say 01:08:10 <|amethyst> :P 01:08:14 Greedy_sacrificiable? 01:08:26 ;D 01:08:30 mmm -- felid autocannibalism 01:08:41 So they need sacrifices often or else they get angry? 01:08:57 And what is the Enchanted Forest anyways? 01:09:01 <|amethyst> Lightli: so that greedy autoexplore visits sacrificeable items 01:09:06 oh 01:09:10 the enchanted forest is a branch being worked on 01:09:15 -!- evilmike_ is now known as evilmike 01:09:20 <|amethyst> Lightli: it was there before the option, but that implementation had bugs so galehar fixed it 01:09:22 It apparently has a rune already 01:09:28 not really 01:09:29 <|amethyst> the rune's been there forever 01:09:49 adding a rune is trivial. there just happens to be a "mossy rune of zot" in crawl 01:10:07 there's also an elven rune of zot, that's been there forever, even though it's never been in the elf branch itself 01:10:15 I know 01:10:17 huh -- how do felids cope with giant spores? 01:10:24 Magic dart 01:10:25 <|amethyst> bmh: spells 01:10:32 |amethyst: those who worship Trog? 01:10:46 <|amethyst> carefully 01:11:02 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:52 <|amethyst> clarity helps but that's unlikely by the time they start appearing 01:13:20 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:14:36 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:16 -!- kats has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:48 <|amethyst> Napkin: thanks; I'll be working more on this tomorrow. I like your use of /srv 01:18:03 <|amethyst> Napkin: oh, who is uid 2002 gid 1010 ? 01:18:29 dgl.crawl, i think 01:18:53 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19:08 <|amethyst> and you build the source etc with user crawl, which has sudo access? 01:19:19 so, that crawl.crawl (user doing the compiles and installations via sudo) cannot modify the games nor data 01:19:31 <|amethyst> great 01:19:32 exactly 01:19:50 <|amethyst> sudo just for dgl I imagine? 01:19:57 Ok, so AC is definitely the most important stat 01:20:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: YOU'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE] 01:20:09 Via much rigging I was able to make a wizmode Naga with 100 AC 01:20:15 I literally tabbed Zot 5 to death. 01:20:16 As in 01:20:24 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:20:35 no 01:20:48 "autoexplore to enemy, hold tab until dead, repeat" 01:21:07 sudo to root, because i also don't want dgl.crawl to be able to change everything 01:21:25 100 AC isn't exactly a viable goal in most games :P 01:21:33 Lightli: dont come in here saying 100 ac is overpowered, when its nearly impossible to get that much in a normal game 01:21:51 I know. Heck, 70 AC was ungodly difficult to pull off on my MfBe 01:22:05 Even that's a quite rare thing 01:22:06 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:22:37 -!- kincht has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:40 (I also had 32 EV as well. I pretty much tabbed Zot to death.) 01:23:05 ??disc of storms 01:23:05 disc of storms[1/2]: Evoke to shoot zaps, lightning bolts, and ball lightning in random directions. Missile deflection is recommended. And don't stand within 3 spaces of a wall. Cannot be used if insulated. The chance of working, number of effects caused, and spell power all correlate to your evocations skill. Also makes rain. 01:23:15 Also, extreme AC is an incredibly lesser advantage for much of extended 01:23:27 <|amethyst> Napkin: no, I mean user 'crawl' can sudo to root just for the 'dgl' command and not, say, 'cfdisk'? 01:23:33 Yeah, most damage comes from hellfire/torment 01:24:09 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 01:24:11 "'dgl' command" as in greensnark's managing scripts? then yes 01:24:22 <|amethyst> yeah 01:24:26 :) 01:24:56 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:31:48 -!- jbud has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:45:06 ??glow 01:45:07 glow[1/3]: Powerful enchantments have cumulative side effects on the body, represented by a magic contamination stat. When it reaches 6, you start glowing, and you can get mutations. But it decays, 1:40 per turn randomised - unless you are hasted or invisible. The mutations are 1/5 random, otherwise bad with a 50% chance of overriding mutation resistance. 01:45:12 ??glow [2] 01:45:14 glow[2/3]: The following effects cause magical contamination: haste, invisibility, extending haste, might, potion of resistance (1 point), controlled blinking and teleporting, mutagenic artifacts, miscasting spells, some miscast effects (Enchantments, Translocations and Transmutations). 01:46:33 -!- chewymouse has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:49:17 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:24 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:50:03 Hang on, I found a bug 01:50:56 Mutations from glowing pentrate though the irrevockably fixed mutation...mutation. 01:56:58 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:59:51 -!- flargenpoo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:00:16 -!- Codrus|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:02:06 that is intentional 02:02:28 the name of the mutation should really be changed though :P 02:13:27 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:13:39 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:05 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:52 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:20:49 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:25 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:50 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.6 sic populo comunicated] 02:41:21 -!- sbluen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:54 -!- Codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:45 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:04 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:54:47 -!- ZRN has quit [] 02:55:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:56:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:43 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:01:05 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:01:57 Oh cool, some of the hints are already in the db. 03:02:21 Maybe I can start transferring them after I'm done with the tutorial stuff. 03:02:45 Maybe I'll work on the Finnish translation enxt though, just for fun. :) 03:17:09 aleksiL (L25 NaFE) ASSERT(item.is_valid(iinfo)) in 'tags.cc' at line 2682 failed. (D:25) 03:24:28 -!- Video_Games has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:29:23 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:31:53 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:33:04 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:13 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:42:45 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:52:37 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:57:29 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:57:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 03:58:22 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:39 -!- unknownuser has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:20:46 -!- stuk_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:21:05 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:21:25 -!- AlcariTheMad has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25:50 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:27:54 -!- squimmy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:22 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:41:35 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:44:12 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:50:49 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 04:53:53 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:03 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-3148-g097cb9d 05:00:55 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:49 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:57 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: nipaa~] 05:04:51 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:41 -!- noobcanoe has quit [Client Quit] 05:14:10 -!- evilmike has quit [] 05:18:57 -!- DracoOmega has quit [] 05:22:12 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:36:31 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:37:13 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:54 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:00 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:10 -!- ark____ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:33 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:48:38 |amethyst: http://pastebin.com/YYpEHaz0 05:50:34 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:56:18 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 05:58:16 -!- Video_Games has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:58:57 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:51 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:04:47 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:31 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:29 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:23:42 -!- naalis has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 06:24:17 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:27:13 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:40:01 -!- wheals has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:02 On death: ASSERT(lev <= 1) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 313 failed. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6048) by kingsyzed 06:51:36 -!- RollieTG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52:20 -!- Glenstorm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:03 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:51 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:11 03edlothiol * rf4edcf281e45 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (5 files): Webtiles: Implement experimental support for watching games started from DGL. 07:18:43 -!- Sab0t has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:25:00 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:51 DCSS doesn't build on OSX 10.8 Mountain Lion (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6049) by PhreeStyle 07:46:44 -!- andrewhl has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:02:10 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:10:54 -!- thened has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:54 -!- thened_ is now known as thened 08:12:37 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:18:46 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:19:59 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:58 New entrance and edited stairs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6050) by white_noise 08:23:21 |amethyst: the problem with missile combat is that every weapon uses a different formula 08:23:22 kilobyte: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:24:01 |amethyst: the plan is to rip it away (also due to extreme ugliness) and merge it with melee 08:24:15 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:55 and then overhaul melee? 08:28:22 -!- Pingas_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:22 -!- Pingas_ has quit [Client Quit] 08:30:16 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:30:45 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:15 -!- Antikythera has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:32:39 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:36:41 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:37:38 -!- Skvader has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:38:49 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:51 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:17 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:47:39 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:00 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:56:31 -!- HangedMan has left ##crawl-dev 08:57:24 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:05 -!- absolutego is now known as absolutego_ 08:59:51 -!- CrazyJew has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:36 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:56 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:20:50 -!- cosmonaut has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:29:54 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 09:33:11 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-3163-gf4edcf2 (33) 09:37:18 -!- Topdopenopolis has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:42:38 -!- antrees has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:16 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:07:06 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:13:53 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:17:16 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:18:54 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:22:02 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:29:18 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:37:49 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:39:55 -!- absolutego_ is now known as absolutego 10:41:33 -!- shapr has quit [Quit: coffee shop] 10:42:42 -!- Dingo has quit [Quit: World in peril] 10:50:43 -!- Dingo has quit [Quit: World in peril] 11:02:00 -!- urthmover has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:03:44 * Grunt is beginning to think that #6049 is due to user cluelessness, but won't be able to confirm that for a while... 11:04:00 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:41 Grunt, well, apple did move the SDKs from /Developer to /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer 11:10:18 Grunt, but no, they did not kill gcc or make, it could be the reporter is missing the command-line developer tools package 11:10:45 That's what it sounds like to me. 11:11:08 That having been said, we'll probably need to make some Makefile adjustments to account for the SDK move. 11:11:31 -!- Adeon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:07 Actually, what it sounds like to me is they're not even aware that the command line package exists. 11:14:12 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:16:07 well, it does, but I have no idea how to install it on a modern os x 11:30:00 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:22 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:02 -!- xnavy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:04 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:10 -!- Huxyyy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:32:12 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:46 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:26 -!- Oddtwang has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- yxhuvud has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- andrewhl has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- Sorbius has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- kats has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- syllogism has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- xnavy has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- Morokiane1 has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- TZer0 has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- syraine has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- casmith789 has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:26 -!- imantor 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Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:17:33 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:10 -!- Morphy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:32:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 13:35:16 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:20 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:21 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:38 -!- s951 has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:18 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:17 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 13:51:39 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:58:26 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:43 !dump squarelos 13:58:45 er 13:58:47 wrong channel 13:58:48 Dump for squarelos does not exist. 14:00:14 dumping it sounds like a good idea, though 14:01:38 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.6 sic populo comunicated] 14:02:01 -!- shmuale has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:02:36 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:07 03kilobyte * r1401ecdd7c55 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Formatting fixes. 14:03:08 03kilobyte * ra6d580a064f9 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Update changelog to 0.11-a0-3148-g097cb9d. 14:03:08 03kilobyte * rebff929d04b0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/pl/quotes.txt: Revert accidental deletion of a quote. 14:03:08 03kilobyte * r8e9ce489a95d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (56 files): Drop a bunch of parentheses from return statements. 14:03:09 03kilobyte * rf62272a90973 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (10 files): Consistently use ??? for dashes, - for hyphens in descript/*.txt 14:04:50 -!- ChongLi_ is now known as ChongLi 14:05:08 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:08 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:11:22 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 14:30:33 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:42:19 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:49:09 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: link_108] 14:50:07 -!- Roarke has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:52:09 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:53:21 -!- 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has quit [] 15:33:26 -!- MPR has quit [Changing host] 15:35:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:36:58 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:37:30 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:08 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:42:22 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 15:43:14 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:43:31 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:03 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:53:09 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:10 -!- Misder has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:58:04 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:04 -!- MPR has quit [] 16:02:45 -!- omnirizon has quit [] 16:10:00 -!- Osteoclave has quit [] 16:14:52 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:16:53 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 16:18:50 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:58 -!- atrodo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2-rdmsoft [XULRunner 12.0/20120420145725]] 16:29:30 -!- User82 has quit [Quit: User82] 16:34:55 Ghost with rF- rC- from character without rF- rC- (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6051) by minmay 16:35:42 -!- Orionstein has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:10 -!- Morphy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:43:27 !seen evilmike 16:43:28 I last saw evilmike at Wed Aug 8 10:14:11 2012 UTC (11h 29m 17s ago) quitting without a message. 16:43:39 He should be here any moment. 16:44:13 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:44:22 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 16:46:34 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:13 -!- tJener has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:49:22 here he is :) 16:51:08 evilmike: the basic idea (rob's I think) of PbP was to have a DS facet that encourages players to go a casting way (because there were already a number that encourage melee). 16:51:38 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:00 I can't think of a facet that is anywhere near as melee-oriented as PbP is magic-oriented (not counting the body-slot muts, that everyone gets anyway) 16:55:23 there are a few facets that require being hit in melee, but if casty chars are never getting hit in melee then something is wrong with crawl anyway... 16:55:52 cloud kitinggggggg 16:56:40 i always wanted a DS facet that reacted in some way to enemies casting in your LoS 16:56:47 that could be caster oriented 16:57:02 elliptic: sure, but spiny will be of much more use to the melee fighter. 16:57:49 I'm not really sure I agree with that... spiny is bad in heavy armour, and most "melee fighters" are heavy armour... 16:57:50 We're free to change PbP in any way we want... there seems to be concensus that it's an underwhelming DS facet. And you indicate that the problem is the mechanic, not the numbers. 16:57:55 miasma is much more helpful to melee-ists, since a caster will generally move 16:57:56 dpeg: the issue with PbP being weak isn't so much to do with how it's caster-focused... it's more that getting MP for losing HP is just weak. at least the way it is now 16:57:57 evilmike: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:58:19 dpeg: personally I dislike both PbP and augmentation, for much the same reasons 16:58:26 evilmike: but suppose that PbP gave full MP everytime you're hit. That'd be strongly overpowered. 16:58:35 What's augmentation? 16:58:38 well yeah 16:58:40 players prefer to stay at full health all the time 16:58:42 ??augmentation 16:58:43 augmentation[1/1]: 0.10 Demonspawn Tier 3 mutation: gives scaling spell enhancers and slaying bonuses with self-damage: bonuses are equal to floor((mutlevel+1)*(maxhp-hp)/maxhp)*(1 enhancer + 3 slaying). 16:59:04 Hm, do you think that demonic guardian works reasonably well? 16:59:11 so just turn it the other way around, like the Sword of Power 16:59:14 That also relies on taking damage, to a lesser extent. 16:59:18 give the bonuses at full health 16:59:23 crawl probably just shouldn't reward you for being at low HP 16:59:28 even if you give quite large benefits for being injured, it still isn't going to be much fun I think 16:59:29 and have a sharp dropoff in power 16:59:34 once you take damage 16:59:57 dpeg: demonic guardian is okay I think... it trigger plenty often at high HP 17:00:03 though the interaction with okawaru isn't great 17:00:06 -!- PollyEsther has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:00:16 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:00:26 turning augmentation upside down is an interesting idea 17:00:26 The idea of PbP was that you can keep going (casting). Your idea of "can cast from HP at MP=0" would do that in a better way, I guess. Exchange rate MP/HP to depend on mutation level. 17:00:39 the players that ignore it have -hilarious- ttyrecs though :3 17:00:58 elliptic: I think the mutation is more important than that one aspect of O. 17:00:58 dpeg: another issue with PbP is that even most casty chars don't run out of MP usually 17:00:59 that sounds like nethack, dpeg 17:01:09 Pacra: insult alert! 17:01:12 :] 17:01:13 it is only the conjurers really 17:01:28 elliptic: I currently play a semi-summoner who's out of MP all the time. 17:01:30 how about having PbP give you a small MP regen buff after killing something 17:01:31 how about reverse spirit shield 17:01:40 elliptic: yeah and those happen to be the ones that take the least damage 17:01:43 when you cast you lose some hp and your spells are cheaper 17:01:43 scaling with the difficulty of the monsters 17:01:47 well, summoners take even less 17:01:49 ontoclasm: yes, that is elliptic's idea. I like it. 17:01:50 evilmike: yes (and summoners too) 17:02:07 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:02:09 wait, I'm not sure I understand that idea 17:02:12 so it probably isn't mine ;) 17:02:16 hehe 17:02:17 hah 17:02:31 oh, I see 17:02:36 well, say you cast summon dragon; it normally costs 9, but now it would cost say 7 and some hp 17:02:39 that could be interesting too but it would be negative for most characters 17:02:41 or whatever 17:02:46 that seems like it would discourage most spellcasting 17:02:47 apparently marvinpa was working on something like that, but not as a DS mutation 17:02:53 Didn't one of you e-guys suggest to allow casting from HP (at a rate better than 1 for 1) once MP runs out? 17:02:54 i dont think he gave the exact details 17:02:57 since you can't really spam stuff anymore because it means you might die 17:03:01 Reverse GS is similar. 17:03:13 casting from HP or something like ontoclasm just proposed sounds better as a non-Ds mutation to me 17:03:27 a staff ability 17:03:30 dpeg: i suggested it as an alternative to making PbP a "bad sublimation" 'a'bility. 17:03:40 elliott: the good thing about the plain version (can cast at MP=0) is that it gives you the option, without drawbacks before. 17:03:54 evilmike: yes! Apologies to elliptic. 17:04:20 also, the idea for making augmentation buff you at high hp sounds cool 17:04:40 dpeg: yes, 0-MP casting from HP sounds more encouraging of casting 17:04:43 fits with demons being haughty too 17:05:04 I don't understand this train of thought of buffing the strong ones but I am willing to be convinced :) 17:05:28 * elliott would suspect people to generally be a bit stingy about giving up HP unless they're trying to cast spells to escape, though... but I might well be wrong about that 17:05:29 well, if augmentation worked like the sword of power, you'd also be weakened at low HP... 17:05:34 I don't like awarding players for being at low HP (that should _always_ be bad) 17:05:44 Guess that shows I am not a really good player. I want help when I'm in a tough spot. 17:05:53 yeah, but aug is the wrong kind of help 17:06:03 when you're abotu to die, offence is not what you want usually 17:06:10 ontoclasm: that's another story 17:07:20 come on, just one last swing! 17:07:23 * galehar dies 17:07:23 evilmike: augmentation as a buff for full HP, wouldn't that suggest to abandon battles even more (teleport) and try again? 17:08:32 Long term note: devise a roguelike system that does not support cowardly behaviour. :) 17:09:21 I guess. I don't think it would encourage that in practice though, most sources of teleportation are consumables 17:09:41 in theory you could get a demonspawn with a ring of teleportation, but they'd need to put in a bit of work to actually get it reliable 17:10:26 and success of that is by no means guaranteed even if you use it 17:10:49 So what about changing PbP to "can cast from HP at MP=0, at rate 1 HP = (1+level) MP"? 17:11:00 Pacra: you need something around 17 evocations to start getting it into (what I'd consider to be) a reliable escape item 17:11:18 actually a bit higher it looks like 17:11:27 Just to have some short-term progress after all the talking. 17:11:40 evilmike: my numbers are always badly off... just putting down something. 17:11:51 dpeg: that seems the wrong way to go ratio-wise; you might have 300 hp and that'd be 1200 mp 17:11:55 I'd go the other way and make the cost be multiple hp for one mp 17:12:15 evilmike: you're a dev, just write down another formula :) 17:12:16 <|amethyst> (4-level) HP per MP sounds better, yeah 17:12:22 or anyone else, for that matter 17:12:24 maybe something like 4-(0.5)m % of your hp 17:12:28 per mp 17:13:26 I don't see why someone would want to slowly kill themselves casting spells at 0 mp instead of just running away and regenning lost MP 17:13:28 where's the draw 17:13:35 are the spells more powerful from HP? 17:13:51 Pacra: you will want to get away... but perhaps you need that blink at MP=0 before? 17:13:56 i guess it just makes 0 mp not a disaster 17:13:57 It is an option 17:14:00 ontoclasm: yes 17:14:15 okay, but that's one spell 17:14:34 it still wouldnt be a particularly strong ability, except for characters heavily using conjurations 17:14:43 what other spells would you want to use in this situation that you wouldn't want to just regen-MP for 17:14:44 evilmike: what tier is it? 17:15:02 Pacra: one last IMB to do the monster in? 17:15:25 I don't know... I'd put it somewhere above where PbP is now, but still lower than average. I should say I'm not that fond of this idea 17:15:27 it also allows BiA use once MP runs out, right? 17:15:36 <|amethyst> just spells, or also abilities? 17:15:44 I only bring it up because I am even less fond of alternative ideas suggested 17:15:44 <|amethyst> what dpeg saidf 17:15:47 I'd say abilities, easier to explain 17:15:59 evilmike: yes, but until we have something better, we can improve what's there 17:16:10 i got a lot better at crawl when i realized most of my deaths were from "one last to do the monster in" 17:16:14 dpeg: BiA doesn't use MP 17:16:19 (i.e. without using a consumable) 17:16:24 elliptic: blammo, there'll be other abilities that do 17:17:00 The problem with PbP in this version is that it is only useful at MP=0. 17:17:19 I have to leave now, but my assessment of this idea is about the same as what evilmike said... a bit better than the current mutation probably, but still far from my favorite Ds facet 17:17:36 elliptic: what is your favorite facet? 17:17:59 maybe get rid of PbP entirely and re-add the MP for kills mutation. But make it a temporary "mp regen" or something so it's a bit different from vehumet 17:18:07 not exactly inspired, but it would work 17:18:17 ok 17:18:47 i was thinking mp-on-enemy-casts 17:19:01 ontoclasm: ah, Power Transfer. 17:19:04 that would be more interesting 17:19:22 "You draw power from enemies casting at you." ? 17:19:35 yeah 17:20:06 Can we do two topics at once? If so, what about replacing Augmentation by a chance to temporarily develop resists to incoming (elemental, perhaps also other) attacks? 17:20:36 actually, did they ever get MP for kills? Maybe it was only HP for kills that was given to old DS. Hard to remember now 17:21:48 There is still Powered by Death? (I.e. HP for killing.) 17:22:20 yeah. that ability seems fine though (at least, no one complains about it) 17:22:53 So we could introduce a MP sibling? 17:23:03 (To have it different from Vehumet.) 17:23:25 dpeg: this came up a while ago, as a "gain some kind of buff when you take damage" mutation. Although it was mostly for offensive buffs, rather than resists 17:23:44 evilmike: yes, I was inspired by the backlog 17:24:18 evilmike: I think both are fine, and it might be worth to have two facets, because you will adapt in different ways to them. 17:25:12 I think the problem with a buff-oriented mutation is that some buffs cause glow, others can have serious drawbacks, and most of them are very situational 17:25:23 -!- aleksil has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:25:58 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:27:34 dpeg: an mp flavoured version of powered by death would probably work better than ontoclasm's idea, since you wouldn't be able to do weird scummy things (keep an orc wizard around as an MP source) 17:28:15 drawing MP from enemy casters still sounds cool though. it would probably have to be tied to damaging/killing them, not them casting spells 17:28:44 evilmike: good point 17:29:29 evilmike: but what is wrong if Augmentation conservatively only gave rF, rC, rPois, rElec, rN when appropriately attacked? That's strictly good and allows the player to take it into account. 17:30:26 well, I wouldn't like to see something that is almost an "rEverything" mutation. And offensive stuff is more fun than defensive stuff, imo 17:30:57 evilmike: well, the rEverything depends on the numbers, of course. 17:31:20 I want to encourage players to do stuff without having the appropriate resistance yet. 17:31:36 So it's about offence, but on a strategical scale. 17:35:53 -!- Pthing has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:05 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 17:36:25 -!- frogbotherer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:58 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:15 well, good defense always leads to better offensive, and vice versa. And sometimes you can't separate the two. This still strikes me as being solidly on the defensive side, though 17:39:43 it's fine to have some abilities that are defensive, of course. I just think it's cooler if a demonspawn's mutations are focused on killing things faster, rather than dying more slowly 17:39:56 evilmike: if we get it right, the mutation might make the player decide to choose a ring/whatever different from a resist item... 17:41:15 For example, suppose that at level L you can have at most L resistances from the mutation; there is an order (e.g. cannot get rElec at L<3, say); chance to get a resist should depend on L and perhaps the relative damage (% of maxHP) the elemental attack di. 17:41:45 hmm, perhaps. I have can't comment here, because I seem to have a somewhat different playstyle from a lot of people (I am perfectly happy walking around with no resists, as long as I can swap in 1 turn or less) 17:42:16 Yes, I sometimes I think I am too mediocre a player to make really good suggestions. Perhaps I should stick to my gods. 17:42:18 -!- Morphy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:42:21 I tend to wear rings of sustenance or other convenience items when exploring, rather than stuff like a ring of rF 17:42:38 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:44 evilmike: that's a long-time bother of mine: swapping rings for travel... but I disgress. 17:44:30 -!- Wensley has quit [Client Quit] 17:44:50 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:12 I don't actually do that, although I would if I had more patience for that kind of thing 17:47:00 it is a grinding mechanic in since ever 17:47:25 for rings, I tend to wear stuff that is broadly useful (+EV, +AC, regen, etc) or ones that make something less annoying. And then, in combat, I'll swap to more situational things like resists 17:47:44 evilmike: I guess my proposal is more about half-assedly filling resistance *holes* (i.e. you don't have the ring yet) and giving you a chance to prod onward. 17:47:54 ah 17:47:56 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:48:10 03galehar * ra6f323efd0d2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godprayer.cc godprayer.h stash.cc travel.cc travel.h): A few fixes to greedy_sacrificiable. 17:48:14 evilmike: it was commonly (ab)used with "Gourmand. I believe my first proposal as a developer was to make the amulet timed. 17:48:34 you could do the same for =sust 17:48:49 evilmike: this is also why I support giving the green scales rP earlier than now, at level 2. That way it actually covers a resistance hole, rather than coming too late. 17:48:56 ontoclasm: yes, I know. 17:49:19 I don't think =sust is actually that useful for reducing food consumption. I just use it because it means the game doesn't nag me as much about eating :P 17:49:35 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:49:40 But with "Gourmand it was really necessary: everyone did the amulet swap, before every meal. Newbies were encouraged to do it. Action was necessary. The =Sust thing is less of an issue, I believe. 17:50:09 yeah, the old way gourmand worked was a problem 17:51:06 I believe that the food system would be nicer if it was scaled down (you eat less, but get more). But before that, I'd really like to get somewhere with the DS mutations. It's such a pain to see potential, and then nothing comes out of it :( 17:51:48 now, I'm tempted to add auto-sacrifice, just ^S or ^P in the autopickup menu... 17:52:19 but not today 17:52:22 galehar: :) 17:52:24 * galehar sleeps 17:52:25 upside down augmentation sounds good 17:52:51 bonne nuit, galehar 17:53:01 i guess it encourages you to run away and reapproach, but that's already what people do 17:54:20 evilmike: 1. Augmentation reversed, as you proposed. 2. Gain MP from killing casters (replaces PbP). 3. I work out a resists mutation. 17:54:29 You'd have to work out 1. :) 17:55:03 I think someone else originally proposed it 17:55:06 oh, and 4. Green/yellow scales give their resist at level 2. 17:55:16 evilmike: fuck the credits 17:55:28 "You consume the orc wizard's essence!" 17:55:34 ontoclasm: yes 17:56:35 also it encourages you to murder your fellow demons 17:56:39 which is always a plus 17:56:53 ontoclasm: allied demons? 17:56:58 reminds me of vampires in elf 17:56:59 no, enemy demons 17:57:01 I smell abuse potential. 17:57:07 ah, very good that, indeed 17:57:29 obviously this wouldn't work on summons, so it wouldn't work on allies anyway 17:57:33 yeah 17:57:42 i like the idea of demonspawn smashing tons of demons to prove they're totally the baddest & on the block 17:57:54 that seems like something a demon(spawn) would do 17:58:16 evilmike: voice your reservations to 1-4 now... I've gotta draw a picture tonight. 17:58:34 Cerebov says, "We get it! You're the best! Now please leave us alone!" 18:00:19 1. Sure, although I am awful at coming up with formulas for stuff. 2. Sounds flavourful and would be better than the current mutation. It can't be named PbP any more though. 3. As long as it's fun to use, that's the main thing. DS mutations ought to be exciting. 4. Haven't thought of it, would probably be fine 18:00:23 if the player is using a species glyph then they turn into & at high enough level 18:00:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: YOU'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE] 18:01:29 evilmike: I think it'd be more fun to use than Robustness, which is strong but awfully bland. 18:01:48 evilmike: let me try to devise something, I'll present it to you guys to trash it. 18:01:48 robustness is also a regular mutation already 18:02:14 but as a DS mutation it pales compared to the funky ones 18:03:09 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:08:13 yeah, mentioned that because giving demonspawns a regular mutation is more boring than a unique one 18:10:33 -!- Skvader has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:10:51 ah 18:11:29 I think Robustness is okay for now, players like it etc. but if we add new DS mutations, it can possibly go away in the future. 18:15:06 it's not one of the problematic DS mutations 18:15:47 yes 18:16:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 18:16:59 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:17:09 some other misc issues: demonic guardian discourages demonspawns from following okawaru (it saps piety). monstrous is more game-changing than others, and I've heard of people qutting when they get it. Nightstalker can be unfun even when it's helpful 18:18:50 Are you concerned about monstrous quitters? Isn't that the same as draconian quitters? 18:19:38 I would hate to throw out DG because of Okawaru. If we want to throw players a bone, what about guaranteeing that DG comes up first or second? 18:20:05 No idea about NS... obviously, it was an attempt to go stabbing. 18:20:16 not really. I don't think there are any really bad draconian types any more (grey used to suck, but they've been fixed). The thing with monstrous is that 3 body slot facets means a lot less equipment to wear 18:20:58 as for demonic guardian, I wasn't suggesting throwing it out. It's just weird how it makes okawaru hate you 18:21:51 it's only a problem if it comes really late... so if a player is hell-bent on O and we guarantee that DG is 1st or 2nd, they at most have to level a bit and then they can go 18:21:52 tweak oka to make him not hate you if your allies come from DG? 18:23:10 evilmike: My assumptions: Yes, it is annoying to get DG _after_ you've chosen Oka. But it's okay to get DG early, expecting players to pick another god. 18:23:45 considering how strong DG is, letting players easily scum for it doesn't seem good to me. I also hate DG a lot, don't find it fun in any way 18:23:45 i know ds muts are supposed to be passive, but nightstalker would be way less annoying if you could turn it on and off 18:23:45 Even cheaper solution: Oka prevents you from getting DG. 18:24:02 or if it only came on in high tension or something 18:24:09 also, getting it early might still mean getting it after you picked a god 18:24:19 ^ 18:24:25 in fact, it might coincide with the part of the game that is juuuuust after the temple 18:24:37 okay, so Oka overrules DG 18:25:08 * dpeg considers DG one of the best DS mutations 18:25:47 A NS switch might actually be okay ... would players switch all the time? 18:26:21 if it were something like... evoke to drop your los a ton, and it comes back slowly over time 18:26:28 i would use it 18:27:26 my main annoyance from ns is just that it pretty much quadruples explore time 18:27:41 well in any situation you meet a monster with ranged it would make sense to toggle it, which would be a lot 18:27:50 being able to reduce your LOS on demand is pretty strong, yes 18:27:53 ontoclasm: yes, I understand. We were aware of that issue back then, I think, but the idea of a sneaking DS was too cool to pass up. 18:28:15 yeah, so a toggle or instant evoke would mean it wasn't on out of combat 18:28:22 only because your LOS is also all monsters' LOS 18:28:26 :P 18:28:48 if switching off mutations is on the table, DG would be just as good a target for that 18:28:54 give it a big hunger cost and have it exhaust you or something 18:29:01 so it's an emergency button 18:29:12 and you can't spam it 18:29:41 regarding Oka: he should be outspoken about it: [DG is announced]. Oka: "Not my disciple." [Different mutation is announced.] 18:30:01 that sounds...awkward 18:30:29 that sounds more like xom, tbh 18:30:58 yes, but it seems like the best solution (no matter if it's disclosed or not) 18:31:19 we want to prevent the order O, then DG, so we do just that 18:32:27 "You have no need of such weaklings, my child." 18:32:37 -!- Flargenpoo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:32:44 ontoclasm: only that Oki shouldn't speak of children :) 18:33:00 I don't think he's the parenting type like Ely. 18:33:01 i thought all the gods did that? 18:33:04 i mean, without good flavor for oka influencing your mutations, it's more of a mechanical fix to dg 18:33:10 what does oka call his followers? 18:33:23 "losers" 18:33:51 "MAGGOT" 18:33:56 i would still argue in favor of changing DG summons to not count against piety like that 18:34:21 additionally, would oka prevent DG2 or 3 if you joined him with DG1? 18:35:59 Zannick: that supports to make it silent :) 18:36:18 so Oka does not speak, and a player who has DG1 but turns to him has no-one to blame 18:37:26 -!- orleans_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:37:30 if okawaru stops you from getting DG2 or DG3 when you already have DG1, he might just wind up getting even angrier at you. 4's and 5's die fast 18:38:31 yeah 18:40:10 1. Augmentation reversed (evilmike). 2. PbP replaced by MP from killing casters. 3. Elemental attacks->resists (dpeg). 4. Green/yellow scales give resistance at level 2. 5. Okawaru silently prevents DG. 18:40:29 NS switch sounds good, but I am not sure I can come up with a decent mechanic for it. 18:40:38 So someone else has to step up. 18:40:57 sounds a bit too much like the darkness spell to me 18:41:10 "You slink in the shadows." / "You make yourself more obvious." 18:41:27 evilmike: well, the switch has to come up with ... things. 18:41:28 we have a darkness spell? 18:41:40 huh, i guess so 18:41:49 Regarding monstrous, what about giving fly as a guaranteed, extra mutation? 18:41:52 Zannick: it's a high level hex spell. no one uses it, but I think that's mainly because it's a hex 18:42:38 What if LOS under NS shrinks automatically as soon as monsters appear? 18:42:39 i think ns would be cool if you kept your LOS but enemies couldn't see you until they were closer 18:43:01 So no impediments to exploration, but full effect with monsters around. 18:43:27 is that possible codewise? 18:43:29 what zannick suggests would accomplish that better than having your LOS fluctuate constantly 18:43:33 because that would be nifty 18:44:00 what is when monsters appear? when there's a monster at the edge of normal LOS, if ns is on, you can't see it 18:44:12 (then does ns go away, etc.) 18:44:31 hah, that reminds me of a silly monster idea i had 18:44:40 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44:44 as it approaches you it shrinks your LoS in front of it 18:44:52 so you can't see it until it's right next to you 18:45:00 evilmike: ok 18:45:34 ontoclasm: that leaks info, though 18:46:15 well, yeah, that's why it was a silly idea 18:46:44 as for the differing LOS thing, it would have to be presented i guess as a halo effect to show where it is 18:46:45 the slightly-less-silly idea after it was for it to apply stasis to you as long as it's in LoS 18:46:57 and i think a bunch of monster code would have to be modified 18:47:05 a lot would have to be modified 18:47:23 -!- Oddtwang_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:35 because then you would be able to fire at them from outside their los 18:47:50 well, you can already do that in edge cases 18:47:58 which likely breaks a lot of assumptions baked into the codebase 18:47:58 like veh fireballs 18:48:33 and ranged attacks with nightstalker used to let you do it until it got changed 18:49:04 Zannick: that abuse actually existed until quite recently. although, with your suggestion about nightstalker, i think it would be best if it was treated more like super-stealth. shooting monsters at the edge of los would alert them to you 18:49:15 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:37 ah, yeah, that's pretty good 18:49:43 versus guys near the edge of your los, you are counted as having 9,999 stealth? 18:49:44 alert them to you when you attack 18:50:06 attacking a guy bypasses any stealth calculations so they'd notice you appropriately 18:50:14 nightstalker + ashenzari used to be silly because you could do exactly the kind of LOS abuse you were thinking of 18:50:23 and monsters basically couldn't do anything to stop you 18:50:28 evilmike: now they do? 18:50:52 ranges don't extend beyond your LOS radius any more, except for AOE explosions 18:50:56 and clouds 18:53:27 monsters are still pretty much helpless vs out-of-LOS attacks. there's an implementable for nerfing cloud spells at least. and explosions are noisy and more limited, so they aren't as seriously broken 18:56:06 -!- Panfork has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:57:34 -!- Medra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:58:11 well, fake-ns would make that harder at least 19:07:19 evilmike: you think the NS proposal is good enough? 19:07:45 it sounds more fun than the current one but I haven't given it much thought 19:09:05 how would you summarise it? 19:13:26 The what, now? 19:14:16 naughty sorceress tower upgrades, obviously 19:15:06 the Nightstalker modification 19:16:46 I want to close this with at least a forum posting. Gotta walk home 40 minutes and it's 2 am here. 19:17:19 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:17:49 dpeg: I don't know, the idea is vague and really new. I guess monsters at the edge of your LOS act like you're invisible? 19:17:50 evilmike: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:18:02 dunno if that's exactly how it would work mechanically 19:18:11 which means they run right at you 19:19:22 once they're alerted to you, sure 19:19:26 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:21:40 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5295&p=71630#p71630 19:22:06 haha: 19:22:06 !lg oneeyedjack 19:22:07 1002. OneEyedJack the Ripper (L12 FeMo), worshipper of Okawaru, blasted by a removed MONS JOZEF (bolt of poison) in D:12 on 2012-08-08, with 17980 points after 34331 turns and 1:44:13. 19:22:44 !lg oneeyedjack x=start 19:22:44 1002. [start=2012-05-14 [20120414211938S]] OneEyedJack the Ripper (L12 FeMo), worshipper of Okawaru, blasted by a removed MONS JOZEF (bolt of poison) in D:12 on 2012-08-08, with 17980 points after 34331 turns and 1:44:13. 19:22:48 said MONS JOZEF didn't melee him 19:23:06 !lg oneeyedjack -tv 19:23:08 1002. OneEyedJack, XL12 FeMo, T:34331 requested for FooTV. 19:23:26 when was jozef removed? 19:23:53 i think that makes sense if he was removed across an update, and oneeyedjack just happened to have a level with him still on it 19:24:07 that appears to be what happened 19:25:29 -!- dingir has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:25:33 !log . hofe 19:25:33 8. HangedMan, XL27 HOFE, T:163882: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/HangedMan/morgue-HangedMan-20120314-160336.txt 19:25:38 3 removed MONS_SUBTRACTOR_SNAKEs 19:25:49 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:27:10 -!- Jackalope has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:27:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:11 I'm off 19:29:05 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:32:57 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:33:35 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:37 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 19:33:56 -!- Neoxx has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:07 -!- ebarrett has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:51 -!- kast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:41 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:39 -!- Kellhus_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:42:07 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:14 -!- ebarrett has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:58:26 -!- FunnyMan4595 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:58:46 hmph, I've got no real idea about how well will http://pastebin.com/hGbarFN8 actually place without testing weights involved 19:59:24 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 20:00:45 -!- RollieTG has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:03:24 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:14 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:11:39 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:23 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:27 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:19:06 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:35 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 20:25:52 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:27:38 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:09 -!- Dingo has quit [Quit: World in peril] 20:35:11 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:19 -!- Chapayev has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:39:38 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:03 ugh, chown isn't working and it's really bizarre 20:40:11 wrong channel! 20:40:18 chowned! 20:40:22 * Grunt flees in terror. 20:40:22 chowned 20:40:52 but srsly if anyone knows why chown -v tells me that it's changed ownership and then ls -l tells me ownership has not changed, that would be great 20:41:11 Wensley: odd filesystem? 20:41:28 could be, is that a problem? this is my external hdd 20:41:39 oh wait 20:41:41 it's ntfs 20:42:12 I guess... ntfs doesn't have ownership that isn't root and permissions that aren't 777? 20:42:24 welp, problem solved. thanks elliott! 20:43:00 Wensley: yeah, welcome to ntfs 20:43:07 Wensley: it has permissions and stuff, I think. but they're all windowsy 20:43:25 Wensley: you may be able to get better results using a different Linux NTFS driver... I think that FUSE one, ntfs-3g?, is meant to be quite good 20:43:37 I will look at it, thanks 20:43:47 of course, better still would be to not use ntfs, say by using another drive, reformatting that one, or creating a non-NTFS filesystem image file on it and then mounting that :) 20:43:53 np 20:44:38 well this is the drive that I share with my windows partition and just stick all of my crap on, but I suppose an ext4 partition for just my linux binaries and such is not out of the question 20:47:05 -!- HellTiger has quit [Client Quit] 20:52:57 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:14 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:56:21 -!- tJener has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:57:14 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 20:58:53 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 20:59:47 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:03 -!- shrot has quit [Quit: shrot] 21:03:08 -!- ajikeshi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:05:48 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:19:35 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:17 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 21:30:50 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:30:54 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:31:02 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:32:53 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:33:22 Wensley: you can make an ext4 partition as a file on the ntfs drive, at least, if you don't want to repartition it or whatever 21:33:25 (and then mount it loopback) 21:38:52 elliott: that sounds really hilarious, but fortunately I had an unused ntfs partition that I reclaimed as a new ext4 one 21:39:02 that is probably more reasonable, yes :) 21:39:11 and chown now works! 21:41:04 I feel like this is the zen of linux. notice that vim isn't persisting your undo history across sessions; solve by repartitioning a hard drive 21:42:46 <|amethyst> galehar: greedy_sacrificiable won't leave an item alone until I sacrifice it 21:43:23 <|amethyst> galehar: if I stand on a corpse and press o, the game goes into a loop until I press a key 21:43:41 <|amethyst> galehar: I imagine this is much more annoying for nemelex worshippers 21:43:56 <|amethyst> galehar: also, I think it should probably be "sacrificeable" 21:44:09 <|amethyst> galehar: (with an "e" rather than an "i") 21:47:48 "sacrificable" 21:48:40 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:28 <|amethyst> sounds kind of old-fashioned 21:57:31 -!- Turgor has quit [] 21:57:47 _sacrificial? 21:58:05 <|amethyst> seems like not quite the same meaning 21:58:14 <|amethyst> I'm fine with sacrificable or sacrificeable 21:58:26 <|amethyst> probably everyone is going to pronounce it like the later 21:59:36 google treats sacrificeable as a typo 21:59:46 and has the definition under sacrificable 21:59:55 a word ending in e + able generally (always?) loses the e, I think 21:59:58 <|amethyst> but gives more hits for the "incorrect" spelling 22:00:21 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:25 !tell dpeg ignite blood with Fedhas is on the same boat as demonic guardian with Oka IMO. A god helping you shoot through a plant's branches is ok, plants magically ignoring fires is hard to explain. 22:00:26 kilobyte: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 22:00:27 nice, wiktionary has two separate entries http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sacrificeable http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sacrificable 22:01:37 google doesn't care about what is correct, it cares about what it thinks will give you more "relevant" hits 22:02:02 <|amethyst> kilobyte: actually, the thing with more hits gets treated as a typo (in that it suggests the other spelling) 22:02:09 -!- wsd has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:11 certainly "sacrificeable" may be more common, and then it's wrong to say it's "incorrect" 22:02:27 it instinctively looks like a typo to me, though :) 22:04:12 <|amethyst> How do you pronounce it? 22:04:32 |amethyst: it's weird... I've seen it already, although it was for a compound search. There was some term "rXXX" with XXX being a common word, and searching for rXXX YYY gave more hits than XXX YYY, yet google insisted on correcting it 22:04:43 forgot what XXX and YYY was 22:06:09 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:06:24 <|amethyst> If you pronounce it "sacrifice" + ɨbl it should probably have the "e" 22:06:43 <|amethyst> sacrificable is "sa KRIF i ka bl" 22:09:49 |amethyst: I don't pronounce it :) 22:11:42 <|amethyst> !tell galehar or as Grunt and elliott point out, "sacrificable" (an older word) 22:11:43 |amethyst: OK, I'll let galehar know. 22:14:25 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:47 -!- localhost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:01 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.6 sic populo comunicated] 22:20:49 -!- Roarke has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:12 -!- adamorjames has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:31:41 -!- Neoxx has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:34:51 -!- Rewans has quit [] 22:35:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 22:40:57 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:43:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:46:47 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:17 -!- Lost_Number has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:47:25 I think I hit a bug in a yred altar. There was a human in a glass room with a door and he didn't get exploded and zombified 22:47:45 oh... no.. expectation, meet reality. 22:47:50 that's the slow agonizing torture room 22:49:22 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:50:49 I hate orc priests. Can we make them harder? 22:52:21 can give them armour if you wish :p 22:53:31 let's give them summon 5 22:53:38 that oughta work well 22:54:26 We have orc priests and orc high priests, how about another type of orc priest? 22:54:36 Orc Bishop... only moves diagonally 22:56:00 FR: orc king, only moves by 1 per turn in one of the basic eight directions 22:57:08 kilobyte: like every other orc? 22:57:36 :p 22:58:39 orc low priests 22:59:04 orc cardinals 22:59:26 Orc Priests become Orc Cardinals when they hurt children and then the Orc Pope summons them to a non-extradition jurisdiction 23:01:26 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:02:26 bmh: about your space-filling vaults, I pondered about a generator based on the dragon curve 23:02:56 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:03 not strictly speaking space-filling, 1/4 space filling 23:03:08 kilobyte: that could be cool. How would you parameterize it? 23:03:43 that's the main problem :( 23:03:58 -!- kats has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:38 add a bit of noise into the l-system? 23:04:51 the best I've come up with is using higher bits than the first after the just increased one, but these are less interesting 23:04:59 l-system? 23:05:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_curve -- you can describe a dragon curve with rewriting rules 23:06:33 -!- PollyEsther has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:49 Debian builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-3169-ga6f323e 23:07:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:40 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:28 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:12:03 they seem to be using that letter-reversing gimmick nearly exclusively, making the bit flipping method only as a footnote 23:13:22 also, isn't dragon curve supposed to be infinite? The tilings show assume it ends after an integer number of steps of that letter-reversing. 23:15:13 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:15:45 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:15:46 orc queen would be fun 23:16:02 assuming it moves like a queen 23:16:15 -!- bmh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:22 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:54 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:29:44 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 23:32:00 -!- RollieTG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:07 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:15 -!- wasd22_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:35:27 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:36:51 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:01 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:56 -!- Sorbius_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:42:01 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:42:23 kilobyte: yes, the dragon curve (and other fractals) are infinite, but at the end of the day you want to dump something to the screen 23:44:18 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: bye] 23:46:21 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:46:25 actually, the Wikipedia page doesn't even mention the method I know, just some gray codes 23:47:16 -!- ZebTM has quit [Client Quit] 23:47:58 it's: take the next bit after the least significant 1 in an integer 23:49:55 bmh: I don't see where restricting it to parts of that L-reversal helps; the end points don't seem to be something that helps in dungeon generation 23:50:11 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:40 -!- pelotron has quit [Quit: ~Internet()] 23:51:42 kilobyte: oh! how about domain distortion. For each (x,y) coodinate, you know if it should be wall or hall from the dragon curve 23:52:02 If you offset your coordinate with, say, perlin noise, you'll probably get something interesting 23:52:42 -!- Osteoclave has quit [] 23:53:27 cutting it between two subsequent powers of two (ie, rooms connected by a single passage) makes better endpoints 23:53:27 -!- dingir has quit [Client Quit] 23:54:35 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:54:41 your idea may work; I wonder how different it would be from some regular fuzzy spirals that can be generated more easily 23:55:24 like, that electrode+particle generator is not distinct enough from delve 23:55:48 wait, we do not have a fuzzy spiral generator, ignore me :p 23:58:07 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:45 -!- ZRN has quit []