00:13:16 -!- eeviac_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 00:24:17 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:50:06 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:01:34 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 01:28:38 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:22 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:58 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:07 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:37:48 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 01:54:46 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:06:21 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:46 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:15:08 -!- neunon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:09 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:48:29 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:55:51 -!- buppy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:13:32 |amethyst, Napkin: --edit-save works on a low level, even major compat bumps don't affect it 03:15:32 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:15:39 there is a possibility the save format would need to be amended (it has separate versioning to make it possible), but that wasn't needed since 0.8 alphas, when the format was still young 03:15:47 -!- Eifeltrampel has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:02 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 03:23:40 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:38:15 good to know, kilobyte :) 03:46:38 -!- moxian|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:00:07 -!- stabwound has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 04:02:29 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 04:02:29 -!- stabwound has quit [Changing host] 04:02:30 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 04:40:10 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 04:44:13 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:51:32 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2335-g1958f97 05:17:18 OS zoology breakage: fdatasync() (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5799) by KiloByte 05:43:51 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:45 9 new vaults (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5800) by nagdon 06:13:19 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:39 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 06:17:52 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 06:18:08 -!- st_ has quit [] 06:21:07 galehar: fwiw, i found spider to be pretty hard the one time I did it 06:21:46 more experienced players that actually played spider more than once might be able to provide better insight into how its difficulty compares to other lair branches 06:22:09 what level where you, what build? 06:22:21 i dont remember, but i think i already had another lair rune 06:22:42 and i left after doing spider:1 06:22:45 because i was afraid 06:24:10 as i said, just about everyone else is more qualified to talk about the difficulty of spider, but if people say it is too hard (as they did on the tavern) that might be worth looking at 06:25:29 i may have been some kind of FE 06:25:51 definitely something with conjurations 06:26:45 a couple of people complaining that x is too hard isn't really helpful 06:27:27 no, but it indicates that it might be good to ask some more helpful people whether they think theres a problem 06:28:25 i felt it was quite hard compared to the other lair branches 06:28:31 but it was mostly fun 06:28:42 yeah, not all lair branches need to be the same difficulty 06:28:49 well, spider is still young and will probably be tweaked. But I think the overall balance is pretty good. 06:29:10 i think i ended up getting the three lair runes and doing V:8 later in that game 06:29:21 maybe people find it hard because they are not used to it 06:29:56 it has fast monsters that hit hard, and lots of them 06:30:05 it may very well simply be harder than other lair branches 06:30:10 redback (05s) | Spd: 15 | Int: insect | HD: 9 | HP: 20-42 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 1804(strong poison) | web sense | Res: 06magic(36) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 198. 06:30:10 %??redback 06:30:12 merfolk (04m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | Int: normal | HD: 9 | HP: 23-51 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 18 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious | Res: 06magic(36), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 188. 06:30:12 %??merfolk 06:30:16 sea snake (11S) | Spd: 12 (swim: 40%) | Int: insect | HD: 10 | HP: 49-83 | AC/EV: 2/15 | Dam: 2404(strong poison) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 757. 06:30:16 %??sea snake 06:30:41 i'd rather see the other branches get a bit harder than make spider easier 06:31:15 heh 06:31:53 also, wow, sea snakes are pretty brutal 06:32:02 swim 40% at speed 12, nice 06:34:13 wolf spider (16s) | Spd: 15 | Int: insect | HD: 11 | HP: 56-87 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 2508(poison), 15 | web sense | Res: 06magic(44) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 525. 06:34:13 %??wolf spider 06:34:47 the thing is, spider monsters tend to be pretty brutal compared to their xp value 06:35:05 and the xp value was tweaked to be around the same as other lair branches 06:35:38 alefury: on the other hand, they are vulnerable to poison 06:36:04 yes, it can be pretty easy for some builds i guess 06:36:05 maybe they could have lower MR too 06:36:44 the sheer speed and power of the spiders and the fairly open levels make it very hard for some others 06:38:09 anyway, im really not the person to discuss this. i just wanted to say even if the tavern comments about spider being really hard are not helpful on their own there might still be cause to look at spider difficulty 06:39:20 i had fun in spider, and i think varying difficulty in lair branches is fine, but wanting balanced branches is also a valid opinion 06:39:34 mikee died in spider 06:39:36 that's how hard it is 06:40:10 !lg mikee s=place 06:40:10 441 games for mikee: 198x D:$, 56x D:1, 28x D:3, 27x D:2, 21x D:4, 13x D:5, 12x D:7, 9x D:6, 4x D:16, 4x D:9, 3x Coc:7, 3x Zot:5, 3x D:27, 3x Orc:4, 3x D:8, 3x Vaults:8, 3x Abyss, 2x Orc:2, 2x D:22, 2x Lair:1, 2x Hive:2, 2x D:10, 2x D:11, 2x IceCv, 2x D:12, 2x D:13, 2x Lair:8, 2x Lair:2, 2x D:17, Vaults:2, Lair:4, Slime:4, Geh:7, Zig:4, Orc:3, Lair:6, Snake:3, Elf:7, Sewer, Pan, Vaults:7, Zig:18, ... 06:40:16 in dieselrobin 06:40:23 ah 06:40:36 !lg ABLATIVE 06:40:37 2. ABLATIVE the Meteorologist (L27 SESk), worshipper of Makhleb, escaped with the Orb and 14 runes on 2012-06-07, with 8070926 points after 189043 turns and 16:14:34. 06:40:43 !lg HISTIRONIC 06:40:44 No games for HISTIRONIC. 06:40:48 !lg HISTRIONIC 06:40:49 8. HISTRIONIC the Devastator (L27 DsWn), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, escaped with the Orb and 10 runes on 2012-06-10, with 5622225 points after 145894 turns and 18:08:13. 06:40:52 it was one of them 06:40:54 there were two dieselrobins, right? 06:41:00 yeah, second dieselrobin 06:41:03 !lg HEURISTIC 06:41:04 5. HEURISTIC the Frost Mage (L19 MuAE), worshipper of Sif Muna, slain by a ghost moth in Spider:4 on 2012-06-03, with 240506 points after 66740 turns and 6:24:16. 06:41:07 ^ 06:41:57 dieselrobin is such a cool idea :) 06:42:17 Patashu: robin games have conducts. We don't balance the game around conducts. 06:42:51 these particular ones were not that conduct-laden 06:43:08 it was teams of 4 people taking turns doing missions (like get a lair rune) 06:43:14 the only noteworthy conduct there is that HEURISTIC was forced to get the second lair rune 06:43:17 and spider was second 06:43:20 the only real conduct was that you couldnt back out of a mission you started i think 06:43:36 anyway, a feature that kill players (even good ones) doesn't mean that it's too hard. 06:43:38 oh, and some mission order for the earlier stuff 06:44:18 dieselrobin certainly had some good players playing at their best 06:44:24 -!- Claws has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:36 doesnt mean they didnt die horribly, though :) 06:44:44 -!- Claws is now known as HangedMan 07:17:47 03galehar * ra231ec188477 10/crawl-ref/source/startup.cc: Don't reset the hunger when loading a game in Lich form. 07:31:05 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:01 was I too mean with feedback on #5800? 07:42:30 ...argh, only just realized I should have suggested to trim the depths instead of point out how horribly out of depth some of the vault contents are 07:49:03 yes. You've provided good feedback, but the agressive tone was unwarranted. The guy even says that it's his first vault submission. 07:50:06 alright, editing 07:50:23 just a little frustrating to see such oods 08:10:50 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:19:27 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:03 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:17 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:07 -!- heteroy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:10 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:01:15 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 09:04:07 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:58 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:43 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:38 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:38 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:55:50 -!- _wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:36 shiori_entry_oz death in flame cloud by autoexplore (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5801) by sgrunt 10:05:40 The game lasted 00:00:12 (14 turns). 10:05:42 haha 10:06:29 -!- _wh1te has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:10:52 Worst start ever. 10:11:23 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:37 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:38 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:21:33 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:10 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:27 03kilobyte * r67a6cc6beeb6 10/crawl-ref/source/util/checkwhite: Allow running checkwhite on files not yet added to git. 10:28:27 03kilobyte * r4835408b6ab4 10/crawl-ref/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Unify and sanitize .rc parsing of item classes, allow adding rods to autopickup. 10:28:28 03kilobyte * rb47796fe2177 10/crawl-ref/source/ (22 files): Use ARRAYSZ() instead of sizeof division, for readability. 10:28:28 03kilobyte * r5e038c7ef393 10/crawl-ref/source/player-act.cc: Fix halflings being able to wield weapons meant for grown-ups. 10:28:29 03kilobyte * r20aeacb5663d 10/crawl-ref/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Move tile options to the main .rc file. 10:28:29 03kilobyte * r4fc838c75156 10/crawl-ref/ (16 files in 4 dirs): Hardcode the loading of {stash,wield,runrest,gearset,trapwalk,autofight}.lua 10:28:30 03kilobyte * r2bf0435ed99b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: A desc for generic expired portals. 10:28:30 03kilobyte * rd38569d08e9c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: A minimal desc for tutorial exits. 10:28:40 03kilobyte * rfd0e1ff17f9b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: Descs for renamed features in Ice Caves. 10:30:43 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:10 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2336-ga231ec1 (33) 10:56:40 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:16 03evilmike * r198b48127901 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/twisted.des: Make shiori_entry_oz less deadly. 11:03:26 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:36 alefury, galehar: regarding Spider difficulty, I'm open to toning the monsters down a bit. 11:04:59 I'm thinking tarantellas should get a single attack (currently have two), slightly lower MR for all spiders, and maybe lower HP for some 11:05:30 it's hard to decide though, because the most detailed people ever get is "the monsters are hard" 11:06:17 well, I remember crate noting a while back that good ac was too good because of how the hardest hitting thing was wolf spiders 11:07:05 ...err, as feedback, not as "this is how to make spider easier" 11:08:13 03galehar * r80bba62dff3e 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Indentation fix. 11:08:14 high AC is quite useful in spider, I don't have a problem with that. I'm not interested in lowering the attack damage of enemies 11:08:17 03galehar * r62ec05c1c479 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godprayer.cc religion.cc): Elyvilon: Remove the piety-less sacrifice of mundane weapons. 11:08:40 cutting tarantellas down to a single attack would be to make them a bit less able to confuse-lock you 11:09:35 evilmike: I did it with a ghoul fighter and mostly noticed the high damage of wolf spider (was still manageable though) 11:09:55 I like the idea of lowering their MR 11:09:56 yeah, wolf spiders are supposed to be brutal in melee 11:10:04 they don't spawn in packs though (unlike most other spiders) 11:10:31 or, I should say, with packs 11:21:41 i get the feeling that it might be pretty brutal for melee builds in general? i've only ever really done it with conjurers and summoners though so i'm not sure 11:21:41 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:22:03 melee_attack.cc: In member function 'std::string melee_attack::mons_attack_verb()': 11:22:03 melee_attack.cc:3997: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions 11:22:23 but it seems like pretty huge amounts of poison get stacked up on you even with rpois, if you let anything hit you at all 11:22:40 it's pretty harsh to ev melee builds, I haven't had trouble on AC ones 11:23:28 hm i would've thought it'd be even worse on AC ones, i'll take your word for it if you've actually had experience with it though :P 11:24:37 when you get caught in a web, you lose EV. Also, AC is nice against enemies that attack fast, but don't do massive damage with each attack 11:27:33 Inventory screen should show you how to inscribe items. 11:27:53 Oh it's on the item itself... 11:40:19 03evilmike * rb51ab777f2f0 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make tarantellas have only one attack. 11:40:22 03evilmike * rcf652babc5ed 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Give all spiders lower MR. 11:41:28 hopefully this means they can still confuse players, just not as nasty 11:41:51 the old ones had 8 damage and one attack... which meant they never really did anything 11:43:26 also halved hd 11:44:03 I'm also thinking of giving wolf spiders a single attack... I don't know what a good number would be though 11:45:13 @??wolf 11:45:13 wolf (15h) | Spd: 17 | Int: animal | HD: 4 | HP: 12-31 | AC/EV: 3/15 | Dam: 8, 2, 2 | sense invisible | Res: 06magic(16) | XP: 100. 11:45:15 64 11:45:31 yes, let's make wolf spiders stronger then alligator snapping turtles 11:46:30 yes, let's miss really obvious jokes :P 11:54:25 evilmike: personally I never had any problem with tarantellas... jumping spiders are killers though 11:55:09 the people having trouble with tarantellas are those who somehow manage to run out of curing potions or just don't want to carry them 11:59:49 hmm. could change jumping spiders so their ensare attacks proc 1/3 of the time rather than 1/2 the time 12:00:12 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120421074340]] 12:00:20 that sounds good 12:00:48 for tarantellas, I did increase their base damage to compensate (slightly, could do it more). Twith two confuse attacks, you could get pretty massive conf duration 12:00:57 obviously, with curing it's not such a big deal, though 12:01:24 I'm sure the mummies among us appreciate it 12:06:16 03evilmike * rbe1512c0cd1e 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Make AF_ENSNARE proc 1/3 of the time (was 1/2). 12:12:50 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:24 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:28 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:01 Autopickup settings leak information about randarts (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5802) by danharaj 12:45:20 -!- ddee has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:31 -!- ddee is now known as _dd 12:54:07 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:14 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:09 Stormfox the Faith Healer (L12 HOHe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1072 failed on turn 16846. (Lair:5) 13:35:01 Suggestion: Make Corona show a halo (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5803) by Thann 13:44:12 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 13:50:46 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:39 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:36 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 14:36:19 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:43 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:04 -!- blabber has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:27 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:13 !lm Stormfox type=crash -log 14:55:13 5. Stormfox, XL12 HOHe, T:16846 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Stormfox/crash-Stormfox-20120619-181308.txt 15:04:26 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:05:56 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:58 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:46 <|amethyst> Grunt: any progress on the tri-state menu? 15:58:25 o_O 15:58:37 I... wasn't working on anything of the sort. 15:58:40 do you mean thann 15:59:03 Grunt: so instantly fix that! 15:59:14 because clearly |amethyst just instructed you! 15:59:29 <|amethyst> doh 16:00:30 <|amethyst> yes I did :) 16:00:47 <|amethyst> !tell Thann any progress on the tri-state menu? 16:00:48 |amethyst: OK, I'll let Thann know. 16:01:10 <|amethyst> sorry, you humans all look the same to me 16:01:28 nice save 16:02:37 <|amethyst> HangedMan: thanks :) 16:05:35 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:10:11 Grunt: did you see that fannar got a kill? 16:11:25 evilmike: I did! 16:12:56 tri-state menu? 16:13:18 <|amethyst> nooodl: making the \ menu toggle among "force on", "force off", and "defer to rc settings" 16:13:34 interesting 16:13:43 !lg * killer=Fannar 16:13:43 1. slay the Severer (L11 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, blasted by Fannar (Ozocubu's Refrigeration) in D:11 (lemuel troll bridge) on 2012-06-19, with 9330 points after 8595 turns and 0:33:44. 16:13:58 !lm * uniq=Fannar s=name 16:13:58 70 milestones for * (uniq=Fannar): 5x johnnyzero, 4x SGrunt, 3x Jeremie, 3x Vizer, 3x jakiro, 3x Sky, 2x Mandor, 2x WalkerBoh, 2x ztfw, 2x danharaj, 2x Nomi, 2x ktgrey, 2x Shockwave, 2x LostNumber, 2x simm, btt, hyperelynae, Rubinko, nfogravity, aleksiL, 78291, JUGGERNAUT, Serge, shiweera, Andrea, silentlamb, crate, Neil, akaean, elliptic, DEEPDUCK, nubinia, Grinner, KiloByte, vogonpoet, cptwinky,... 16:14:15 1:70, that sucks 16:14:32 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=Harold 16:14:44 <|amethyst> !lm * uniq=Harold s=name 16:14:49 !lg * killer=Nikola 16:14:50 718. cesare the Thaumaturge (L9 DEEE), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by Harold (bolt of fire) on D:10 on 2012-06-18, with 3882 points after 5806 turns and 0:27:31. 16:14:50 30293 milestones for * (uniq=Harold): 488x 78291, 237x Nexos, 202x clouded, 170x m1nced, 167x NyaaKitty, 158x soul, 156x Surr, 152x Tenaya, 146x IonFrigate, 145x heteroy, 143x Elynae, 141x MarvinPA, 141x BirdoPrey, 134x Moose, 132x hyperbolic, 129x minmay, 125x nht, 119x jeanjacques, 118x mikee, 118x mafalda, 113x pivotal, 109x magistern, 104x nmf, 102x KiloByte, 97x murphyslaw, 95x Johan, 94x Jae... 16:14:51 !lm * uniq=Nikola 16:14:52 784. Midpoint the Slingshot (L17 DDPr), worshipper of Zin, blasted by Nikola (chain lightning) in D:17 on 2012-06-19, with 160353 points after 35645 turns and 9:22:58. 16:14:56 10961. [2012-06-19] Blackmore the Blocker (L12 MiBe) killed Nikola on turn 14659. (D:16) 16:15:13 why is ozocubu's refrigeration capitalized 16:15:15 nothing else is 16:15:33 not even proper names? 16:15:38 <|amethyst> the spells are 16:15:46 <|amethyst> bolt of fire is the name of a beam, though 16:15:47 <|amethyst> hm 16:16:01 1:42 for Harold, 1:14 for Nikola 16:16:26 <|amethyst> and the 1:70 isn't really statistically useful yet 16:16:36 <|amethyst> one more kill and it will be 1:35 16:16:40 the 1 was a killsteal though! 16:17:07 excellent one but still 16:17:41 !lg * killer=Nikola -tv 16:17:41 784. Midpoint, XL17 DDPr, T:35645 requested for FooTV. 16:17:52 !lg * killer=Fannar -tv 16:17:53 1. slay, XL11 MiBe, T:8595 requested for FooTV. 16:18:19 !lg * ikiller=fannar 16:18:20 1. slay the Severer (L11 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, blasted by Fannar (Ozocubu's Refrigeration) in D:11 (lemuel troll bridge) on 2012-06-19, with 9330 points after 8595 turns and 0:33:44. 16:18:26 no ice beast kills, boo 16:18:52 !lg * cv=0.11-a killer=harold 16:18:52 39. offering the Fighter (L10 DsNe), worshipper of Ashenzari, blasted by Harold (wand of lightning) in D:11 on 2012-06-13, with 4701 points after 10432 turns and 1:49:58. 16:19:05 <|amethyst> clearly the solution is to put him on D:2 16:19:05 !lm * cv=0.11-a uniq=harold 16:19:06 1540. [2012-06-19] erker the Impaler (L11 MfGl) killed Harold on turn 18168. (Orc:4) 16:20:38 Harold sucks like a Vax, though, so it'd be better to balance towards less boring ones than him 16:20:54 harold might be more danagerous because he has fewer spells 16:21:00 bolt of fire is pretty dangerous on d:10 16:21:11 there was talk about giving fannar an ice beast band instead of summon iba 16:21:15 especially since players don't know yet how to fight Fannar, so his stats are bigger than he'd normally get 16:21:23 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 16:21:43 to me, the most wimpy unique at that range is erica 16:22:25 1:38, better than Harold 16:23:34 make harold a tengu and make him better in melee 16:23:56 <|amethyst> a Tengu unique would be nice 16:23:59 Gastronok has 1:12.7 16:24:02 <|amethyst> a unique for every player race 16:24:15 change frederick's speech and make him a dgre 16:24:45 maurice -> halfling, harold -> tengu, norris -> demigod, jessica -> high elf (exiled for being a necromancer) 16:24:47 HangedMan: you mean, deifying Adolf? 16:24:49 just get that patch in already Eronarn 16:25:06 ChrisOelmueller: sorry, i have been working on my game :( 16:25:09 where's the sludge elf 16:25:12 but :( 16:25:24 and minotaur 16:25:29 also i just got a job so goodbye free time 16:26:03 HangedMan: sludge elf with s hydra 16:26:33 sludge elf with summon hydra 16:26:33 use the spriggan rider code to make him ride a hydra 16:26:55 we need an octo unique but i have no idea what really 16:27:00 also we need a DD 16:27:03 <|amethyst> that might not interact will with uniques 16:27:08 and a less-lame vamp 16:27:19 <|amethyst> since spriggan riders are handled by having a separate monster for rider-and-mount vs rider vs mount 16:27:31 pff, we need all classes representation 16:27:36 where is the tm unique 16:27:43 optm unique 16:28:00 actually HangedMan: lava orc tm with statue and dragon form 16:28:03 (this is endless) 16:28:12 didn't dragon form lose fire 16:28:20 did it? 16:28:24 <|amethyst> forms for monsters... 16:28:29 oh, boo, it's just level 7 for all 16:28:30 <|amethyst> sounds like Great Fun to implement 16:28:41 how big of a difference would it make to give fannar a second refrigeration slot? His second spell slot is emptry right now 16:29:20 I don't really know how much of an effect that would have on how often he casts it 16:29:42 <|amethyst> didn't you do something similar for orb spider? 16:29:47 only one way to know. Try it! 16:30:08 yeah. A lot of monsters have the same spell in multiple slots 16:30:27 it makes them cast more often, I'm just curious how big the effect is 16:31:12 <|amethyst> or even do both... replace IBA with a band and a second refrig slot 16:31:15 it gives it another try at finding that spell in the AI code, but because of how it's written it's not straightforward 16:31:16 wouldn't they have just twice the chance to cast it? 16:31:42 <|amethyst> I suspect the don't choose their spells from all slots equally likely 16:31:53 <|amethyst> but I haven't tried grokking that code 16:32:09 they do from the main ones but if they fail they might do non-spell things... i think 16:32:16 it's really horrible to read :( 16:32:35 I'll just do some crude tests by counting how many times he casts the spell in 100 turns 16:33:40 not good enough. Do it with 1000 turns ;) 16:35:00 !seen thann 16:35:01 I last saw Thann at Fri Jun 15 00:26:07 2012 UTC (4d 21h 8m 54s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 16:35:02 there is a minor difference between one spell slots and 2, but the difference between 2 and 5 is lost in underflow 16:35:19 <|amethyst> even with the others being full? 16:35:42 |amethyst: I have a feeling thann isn't going to finish the autopickup menu 16:36:12 <|amethyst> I wouldn't expect A vs A,A to be as big a difference as A,B vs A,A,B 16:36:24 <|amethyst> !seen Thann 16:36:25 I last saw Thann at Fri Jun 15 00:26:07 2012 UTC (4d 21h 10m 17s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 16:36:25 |amethyst: yeah, this affects relative chances 16:37:06 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: n8] 16:37:31 <|amethyst> galehar: I'll try my hand at it if I don't hear from him in a day or two 16:37:33 instead of a 3 state, maybe we could toggle between default/opposite. light grey means default, white means toggled. 16:37:56 <|amethyst> galehar: that's bad 16:38:19 <|amethyst> galehar: what if I have needles no-pickup, but an exception for curare? 16:38:29 i really found the color highlights and font weights to be misleading by the way 16:38:31 I mean you toggle between + and -, but it also changes colour 16:38:51 i.e. that bad potions are red and bold even though you excluded them from pickup 16:38:52 |amethyst: exception for curare wouldn't interact with the menu 16:39:07 i first thought that bold would make a nice way of indicating current enabled pickups 16:39:25 <|amethyst> galehar: hm 16:39:29 the menu generate mundane items. If the options have an effect on them, the menu shows it 16:39:53 also .. is there a way to deal with books in the current implementation? i didn't find anything 16:40:33 ChrisOelmueller: not in the menu. Why would you want to mess with book autopickup? 16:40:50 <|amethyst> galehar: my thought was that, with e.g. ae = well, "mess with" could just mean "don't pick up books in that zig" 16:41:01 ChrisOelmueller: I think it's good that the menu use normal inventory colours. I didn't notice the bold 16:41:11 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:41:21 I wonder, perhaps we can unify the interfaces somehow? Currently, there are three: by item class, ae, the new menu. 16:41:37 <|amethyst> unify in what sense? 16:42:13 <|amethyst> by allowing regexps in the new menu? 16:42:17 get rid of at least one 16:42:43 item classes are already (almost) doable via ae 16:43:00 <|amethyst> there's also LUA btw 16:43:06 "almost" because you can't then disable them via ae again 16:44:41 yeah, removing item class could simplify it a bit. And you can emulate it with both ae and the menu. 16:45:19 <|amethyst> "_exceptions" doesn't make sense then of course, but it could be renamed 16:46:42 <|amethyst> basing priority on order (rather than deny overrides) could help 16:47:22 |amethyst: so, if you set ae= having a clear hierarchy seems simpler 16:48:06 <|amethyst> galehar: I was thinking you'd be able to toggle among "pick up all needles", "pick up no needles", and "pick up curare only" 16:48:26 <|amethyst> but that might be overly complicated in the usual cases 16:48:40 |amethyst: I got it. But the use case is too niche, and 3 state toggles are annoying 16:49:03 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:59 by default, the menu is light grey, and it's initialized based on ae options. If you toggle anything, it changes symbol (+/-) and the symbol turns white 16:51:05 <|amethyst> and if you toggle something selected it goes back to the default, even if the default is (because of config changes etc) the same as the current value? 16:55:02 03dolorous * r493240059799 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: Fix wording in new descriptions. 16:55:14 you set ae = I guess it means that the array has 4 of 5 stats 16:56:16 03evilmike * r9420fc1375a3 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-spll.h: Make Fannar cast Ozocubu's Refrigeration more often. 16:58:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:51 evilmike: so, how was your 100 test? :) 16:59:18 Oh, instead I tested to see how many turns it took him to cast it 50 times 16:59:47 with one slot it was around 500-600, with two it's around 300. 17:00:04 that's standing next to him, holding '.' and counting how many times the screen flashes. very scientific 17:00:10 hah 17:02:04 <|amethyst> galehar: 4 of 5 stats? 17:02:55 |amethyst: I mean (default/toggle) * (on/off) = 4 states 17:03:13 5th was just default, but it doesn't make sense in this design 17:03:15 so 4 17:04:36 maybe there is a simpler way to implement it... 17:05:23 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:48 <|amethyst> You'd have to check every time if the ae default has changed, not just on load 17:08:11 <|amethyst> e.g. if you forced off pickup for unholy creation, then start worshipping zin 17:08:36 <|amethyst> which means the default aes will start matching the item 17:09:21 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:33 really? an item is unholy, no matter who you worhsip, isn't it? 17:12:42 <|amethyst> galehar: # Exclude items which your god disapproves of. 17:12:42 <|amethyst> ae = evil_item 17:13:00 evil_item is relative? 17:13:10 I thought it was draining and co 17:13:22 would be useless this way 17:13:37 maybe you can reinit the array when you change religion. 17:13:42 <|amethyst> is_evil_item() is absolute 17:17:57 galehar |amethyst: re thann: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5803 17:18:09 i don't think he disappeared completely, just hasnt been on irc for a while 17:18:24 so there is still hope :) 17:18:34 <|amethyst> galehar: also changes of form (necromutation) can affect dangerousness of ?holy word 17:20:21 <|amethyst> and whether you know evaporate 17:21:02 <|amethyst> and mutations and skill levels 17:21:28 <|amethyst> so it would pretty much have to be every use of the menu... which isn't a problem by itself 17:23:32 <|amethyst> but that would mean that just entering the menu without changing anything could affect pickup of items (in particular, ones where an exception matches the item but not the "prototype" item of that subtype: e.g. arrows of poison for TSO worshippers; for such items "arrows: default, on" is different from "arrows: toggled, on") 17:24:20 alefury: that comment on mantis was what made me think he isn't going to finish the menu. He has already moved to some other project! (I know the feeling...) 17:24:53 <|amethyst> I suggested three-state because that would let people use both complicated autopickup exceptions of their own devising, and the menu, while still having control 17:25:18 <|amethyst> but I agree that it is too much work for the "normal" case, where all items of the subtype are identical 17:25:20 |amethyst: alright, you've convinced me! 3 state is simpler :) 17:25:59 <|amethyst> (too much work for the player, that is) 17:26:11 <|amethyst> anyway, dinner's ready, back in a while 17:32:37 |amethyst: how about this: implementation is 3 state, but interface is 2 state. But, if you ^d then letter, then you can reset something to the default. 17:32:42 galehar: care to push English descs to Transifex? Looks like I'm done there, with future updates coming from folks who can actually write worth shit. 17:32:53 kilobyte: sure 17:34:03 -!- moxian has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:34:16 btw, my todo is to (finally) work on constriction and mimics, before the 0.12 freeze, then I'll go back on improving the tx interface on trunk 17:34:38 i really hope you mean 0.11 freeze 17:34:47 yeah :) 17:35:13 I'm still sleep deprived from my trip to Barcelona :) 17:35:23 so we get permaforms/buffs in 0.12? :P 17:35:35 maybe, who knows? 17:35:55 I'm afraid the chances for grammar translation for 0.11 are nil, and having a mix of languages would be bad, so let's have just descs translated 17:36:13 I'm thinking of calling it sustained-casting 17:36:26 enabling them by default based on locale is probably a good idea, a desc in your native language is not as jarring 17:36:55 kilobyte: hey, good idea 17:38:46 ugh, really? enabling partial translations by default? 17:39:31 I kept thinking about the rewrite of mon-pick (that I kept harassing elliptic (mostly) about), still without a good idea, so I think I'll just apply div_rand_round() to a bad approximation, and put it in 17:40:54 with a 1/1000 scale for rarity: there's a lot of values like 35/10201 so 1/100 would be a heavy distortion, changing some monsters to 3 some to 4 is good enough 17:41:02 kilobyte: would that mean that we can finally reduce vaults and crypt? that would be great! 17:41:16 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:25 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:55 I'd keep it safe and make no large changes... unless you insist 17:42:23 the ranged combat rewrite is way too risky for 0.11, current no enchantment is probably good enough 17:42:28 I'm not sure we need such a fine scale. A grosser one might be easier to read and balance so it doesn't sound like a bad change. 17:43:06 <|amethyst> galehar: something like that (ctrl-d letter or ctrl-d , to reset to default) sounds good 17:43:17 I agree that it's a bit late for ranged rewrite, let's move it to 0.12 17:43:19 <|amethyst> now this means I need to learn how menus work 17:44:21 I wonder about bad_forms, could perhaps still get them done and roughly balanced. 17:44:39 |amethyst: if you prefer, I can handle it (I know menu code already), and you rewrite constriction. I can give directions. 17:44:48 monster Poly Other (that's not supposed to become Malmutate) is rare anyway 17:45:40 <|amethyst> galehar: hm... I'd like to hear the directions before agreeing to that :) 17:45:43 |amethyst: but if you want to learn interface code, that's good too. There's so much to do there! :) 17:46:16 * kilobyte hates interface. Not just in Crawl... 17:46:32 oh hrm, there are all unsolved tile issues... 17:46:34 <|amethyst> there are a few other things beside the menu that need to be changed; _is_option_autopickup() needs to not set you.force_autopickup 17:46:51 <|amethyst> and everyone's force_autopickup needs to be reset 17:47:24 <|amethyst> since people currently have things like force_autopickup[OBJ_FOOD][FOOD_CHUNK] = -1 17:48:08 -!- HangedMan is now known as GreatOrbOfEyes 17:48:10 replace constricting and dur_has_constricted with a pointer to a map with mid for ket and duration as value 17:48:11 beh, screw tiles for today, going to bed. 17:48:32 <|amethyst> I thought we wanted to get rid of the use of mid there 17:48:35 |amethyst: that can be special-cased, especially for now 17:48:47 |amethyst: mindex is the bad one 17:48:50 <|amethyst> oh 17:49:14 mid replaces it -- it is guaranteed to be unique 17:49:16 <|amethyst> stupid terminology 17:49:27 probably, yeah 17:49:36 kilobyte: !tell me the critical tiles bug, I'll have a look 17:50:23 we should document the fact that mid > mindex 17:51:02 <|amethyst> galehar: I think I can handle the constriction changes 17:51:24 |amethyst: good :) 17:51:31 but that's just a start ;) 17:51:46 <|amethyst> as long as I don't have to do the balancing 17:52:00 <|amethyst> I can change formulas, but I doubt I can come up with good ones 17:53:17 introduce you.held with this enum: HELD_NO, HELD_NET, HELD_WEB, HELD_MONSTER, HELD_CONSTRICTED 17:53:38 HELD_MONSTER is damage less constriction (for mimics and maybe others) 17:53:47 ball python? 17:53:54 this helps with messages 17:54:27 regarding balance, blink counts for 2 escape attempts 17:54:56 <|amethyst> re-introducing the tloc restrictions? 17:55:15 only blink, tele works 17:55:30 <|amethyst> also for nets and webs? 17:55:31 and no size restriction or anything complicated 17:56:07 for nets I think we can keep the current behaviour (blink with it) 17:56:31 for webs, it's simpler to handle it like constriction 17:58:43 feedback on http://pastebin.com/cc3Q6J8z , evilmike? 17:58:44 <|amethyst> should constriction have the other effects of nets/webs (no throwing, 2H launchers, shields)? 17:59:33 for damage, I was thinking of doing dam * stepdown(time, 5) 17:59:59 I'm not sure if it's right. I mean damage is doubled after 5 turns, then after 10 more... 18:00:14 instead of dam + time 18:00:20 <|amethyst> err, don't you mean multiplied by 5 after 5 turns? 18:00:20 -!- eeviac_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:43 <|amethyst> oh, 5 turns as in 50 aut 18:00:51 yes, 50 aut 18:01:27 <|amethyst> wouldn't stepdown(time, 5) mean multiply by 5 after 5 aut? 18:02:25 <|amethyst> never mind 18:02:27 it nerfs low HD (and str) constrictors, but buff stronger ones. Use the value of the attack instead of the HD, so you can nerf high HD monster's constriction (tentactled monstrosity) 18:03:58 give dam 0 constriction (hold) to mimics. Maybe ravenous ones can have half HD constriction, and orb one normal constriction 18:04:11 revert the scaling and give them stats 18:04:27 I think that's all. That's the plan. 18:05:22 <|amethyst> hm 18:05:36 <|amethyst> sounds ambitious 18:07:12 <|amethyst> when you say "value of the attack", do you mean the damage number on the attack, or the actual damage done? 18:07:16 well, it can be taken step by step, doesn't have to be one go 18:07:16 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 18:07:48 I mean replacing HD in the formula by the base damage of the constiction attack from mon-data.h 18:07:59 <|amethyst> oh, okay 18:08:02 <|amethyst> that's much simpler 18:08:25 first steps are saner implementation, replace the arrays by a std::map 18:08:44 pointer 18:09:08 <|amethyst> and free the map whenever it's empty? 18:09:19 yes, because it's 99% of the time 18:09:35 and it's for every actors 18:10:14 since it's a minor version bump, squeeeze you.held in the commit for latter usage. 18:10:33 <|amethyst> shouldn't that be actor::held ? 18:10:40 you need you.holder for the constricting monster 18:10:53 yes right, held goes in actor 18:11:03 holder too 18:11:33 dur_been_constricted is useless, just drop it 18:11:53 btw, there's harmless inverted logic at player.cc:7603 18:11:57 <|amethyst> should held and holder really be attributes instead of properties? 18:12:39 getting late here... what's the difference? 18:12:55 <|amethyst> properties are stored in a hash table, and don't take up space on things that don't have them 18:13:10 <|amethyst> but there is a limit of 255(?) properties per actor 18:13:22 oh, you mean using props 18:13:45 <|amethyst> I was wondering why you didn't know what I was talking about... I used the wrong term again 18:13:51 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:01 I thought that was a C++ thing 18:14:38 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:15:16 props can work too, but it makes code a bit less readable. If we have just a pointer and an int, it's small. 18:16:08 using props avoid quite some work in tags.cc though, so your call 18:17:07 <|amethyst> well, I think I'd stick with a map for the array anyway, so I guess there's not a lot of point to using a property for the reverse direction 18:18:16 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes is now known as HangedMan 18:18:42 <|amethyst> what about being constricted by multiple things? 18:19:10 this isn't possible right now, and we should probably keep it that way for simplicity 18:19:21 <|amethyst> My worry is that you could abuse a mimic to avoid the painful kind of constriction 18:19:34 haha, good point 18:19:34 <|amethyst> I guess you could let constriction replace holding 18:20:29 yes, that should work. Or anything with a higher HD (or dam if it's changed) 18:20:30 <|amethyst> but still abusing nets and webs could be a problem 18:21:01 could be overwritten too 18:21:28 stacking constriction doesn't sound fun 18:23:32 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 18:24:28 you could make it stack, but not in damage 18:26:25 seems more complicated for no gain 18:26:28 anyway 18:26:31 * galehar sleeps 18:27:06 -!- HangedMan is now known as GreatOrbOfEyes 18:28:19 03crawl-ref-discuss * r1778fb77f1a0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (features.txt monsters.txt): Transifex format fix. 18:29:23 snrk 18:29:44 %git r1778fb 18:29:44 Could not find commit r1778fb (git returned 128) 18:29:47 %git r1778fb77 18:29:47 Could not find commit r1778fb77 (git returned 128) 18:29:54 %git 1778fb77 18:29:54 Translators * r1778fb77f1a0: Transifex format fix. (50 minutes ago, 2 files, 43+ 44-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/1778fb77f1a0 18:30:58 maybe someone could add Translators to the commit hook so that it doesn't look like the mailing list is making commits? 18:32:02 oh, so that's what that was 18:33:00 yeah, the hook by default tells cia to credit the username half of the email address provided 18:33:48 GreatOrbOfEyes: first bit of feedback: why do you have "KMONS: 1 = ooze" 18:33:54 it looks like "MONS: ooze" will work fine here 18:38:42 GreatOrbOfEyes: also, whatever theme you're going for isn't being conveyed well. This looks like zin is randomly hanging out with jiyva. My suggestion: remove the zin altar, keep the gold 18:39:38 GreatOrbOfEyes: these two gods are opposed to each other. I don't think zin is interested in giving slimes a bunch of gold to eat 18:42:29 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:43:23 GreatOrbOfEyes: in the second vault, you misunderstand how the layout_foo tags work. They go by layout *type*, not by the specific layout 18:43:31 all of the "loops" layouts are "misc" 18:44:03 similarly, layout_roguey is "rooms" 18:44:06 constriction damage formula is: dam * (1 + stepdown(duration, 50) / 50) 18:44:32 * galehar sleeps 18:45:47 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:48 GreatOrbOfEyes: also, do you know how the transparent tag behaves in a vault like that one? I assume it works, but this seems like something that hasn't been tested much 18:50:23 <|amethyst> how's this supposed to get connected? 18:50:40 GreatOrbOfEyes: I also don't really undertand the theme of that second one. It looks like a lot of random monsters to me. Maybe just place them with '0'? 18:51:25 <|amethyst> oh... "The + and = glyphs, when placed on the edge of the map, are also considered entry points" 18:51:28 |amethyst: well, the doors will act as exits, and this isn't the only vault with different rooms separated by whitespace 18:51:29 yeah 18:51:36 <|amethyst> I did not know that 18:54:09 GreatOrbOfEyes: actually, I understand that each box has a "theme" of sorts. Just that I don't understand having a box full of insects on d:19 19:00:24 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:24:33 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:20 <|amethyst> ugh... save compat is going to be a pain 19:26:24 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:48 <|amethyst> since you can't convert the old mindex to an mid at the time of loading, because the constrictee might not have been loaded yet 19:27:31 <|amethyst> I guess everything gets restored into a static array in tags.cc and we do a postprocessing step to set the constriction fields from that 19:27:37 -!- Thann has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:54 !messages 19:42:55 (1/2) |amethyst said (3d 22h 12m 22s ago): I made some changes to the autopickup code to avoid a crash; some of the fixes are to part of the code that will be removed, so just a heads up to expect some conflicts 19:45:51 Descriptions for expired portals (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5804) by ion_frigate 19:49:34 <|amethyst> Thann: I've got to go for a bit, but there's a discussion about the tri-state menu in the scrollback 19:50:12 <|amethyst> Thann: we thought maybe you'd stopped working on it, so unless you speak up galehar is going to do it 19:50:25 |amethyst: noob question: how do i access said cat log 19:50:32 also im sorry for going awol 19:50:41 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ 19:50:45 but im back and ready to resume crawl-deving 19:50:55 excelent 19:51:11 <|amethyst> It was actually not that, but rather 5803 19:51:29 <|amethyst> made us think you were moving on from the pickup t oggle menu 19:51:42 <|amethyst> anyway, I'll be back in an hour or so 19:51:48 ok cool 19:53:54 galehar: sorry for the confusion, but I defintely still plan on implenting the tri-state-menu 20:00:01 !messages 20:00:02 (1/1) |amethyst said (3h 59m 14s ago): any progress on the tri-state menu? 20:01:12 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:01:23 -!- eeviac_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:01:52 -!- eeviac_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:27 -!- GreatOrb1fEyes has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:27 -!- GreatOrb1fEyes is now known as HangedMan 20:09:49 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:25 first of the two: the KMONS is to keep consistency with the doubled characters across the KMONS, and original plans were for a neutral zin holy but the jellies eating up gold ending up being a fine enough vault trick 20:10:54 fine with making it a panic-room of gold and jellies I guess 20:11:36 the second one mostly integrates with the floor rather well with a lot of &^R work, although I'll trim the tags as informed to do so 20:12:55 the theme was probably more obvious in an earlier draft... the trick to the vault is that it's all furthered evolutions of D:1 non-humanoid trash, it's more obvious when you see it spawn 20:13:17 and yeah the giant cockroaches to demonic crawler doesn't really work but almost all the others did, sigh 20:14:12 (a lot of &^R work proved it works well, not that &^R makes it work, argh) 20:43:55 HangedMan: if you want a list of layout types, it's in syntax.des 20:44:03 I think one might be missing from there 20:44:23 I wanted to use forbidden_donut for the vault too but it refused to place 20:44:23 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:32 that one is "open" I beleive 20:45:57 the vault tends to place on one of the edges and looks fine-ish there 20:46:46